April 16, 2025 • 28 mins
What happens when girls in one of Australia's most educated and affluent communities are quietly suffering the poorest mental health outcomes in the nation? The answer: Fearless Women steps in to transform young lives.
Glenda Stevens, founding CEO of Fearless Women and 2024 ACT Senior Woman of the Year, shares the remarkable journey of building an organization dedicated to empowering vulnerable girls and young women. Drawing from her diverse background as an Air Force air traffic controller and community leader, Glenda explains how Fearless Women developed its multi-layered approach to supporting girls through school programs, counseling, and mentorship.
Despite overwhelming community response with volunteer mentors, Fearless Women struggles to meet demand, with hundreds of girls currently on waitlists for their life-changing programs. Glenda challenges listeners to support not just through donations, but by actively calling out gender bias, having meaningful conversations with young people about media messages, and examining the subtle ways we reinforce stereotypes in everyday settings.
Want to support vulnerable girls or know someone who could benefit from these programs? Visit fearlesswomen.org.au to learn how you can be part of creating a generation of confident, resilient young women ready to face tomorrow's challenges.
This episode is supported by CareSuper.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast.
I'm Greg Harford, your hostfrom the Canberra Business
Chamber, and today I'm joined byGlenda Stephens, the founding
chief executive of FearlessWomen.
Glenda, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thank you, Greg.
I'm really pleased to be heretalking to you.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Now you've got a really interesting career career
and we'll get into talkingabout Fearless Women shortly but
you're a highly experiencedcommunity and business leader.
You're a former Air Force airtraffic controller and a past
chair of ACTACOS.
You were the 2024 ACT SeniorWoman of the Year, as well as
being the founding CEO ofFearless Women.
(00:45):
You've had a fascinating careerjourney.
What inspired your transitioninto the not-for-profit sector?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
All through my life I've had a social bent.
Even when I was at school I wasalways very involved in the
community activities and mycareer in the Air Force.
In a way, I saw that ascommunity service, in that I was
giving to the wider community.
And then that came to an enddue to lack of childcare.
(01:15):
I had to look around and seewhat else I could do.
I'd always had an interest infinance and numbers, so I
retrained as an accountant.
I started at the local TAFEcollege and then went to
university et cetera, butrealised I was a little bit too
creative to stay in that fieldand so trans looked at what did
(01:36):
interest me, where my interests,and so I ended up sort of in a
very large school in Sydneysupporting girls et cetera, and
so it was really an unplannedseries of fortunate accidents
that ended me up in thenot-for-profit sector.
Having said that, everythingI've done has actually
contributed to me being here.
(01:57):
So the things I learned in theAir Force about teamwork,
working with other people,leadership, et cetera, has all
been a foundation for what I'mdoing now.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
And last year congratulations.
A little belatedly you werenamed ACT Senior Woman of the
Year.
What drove that and what doesthat recognition mean for you
personally?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Well, first of all, it was the recognition that I
actually was over 60.
I was trying to ignore that.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
About 60 is the new 20, right.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yes, after my sons told me that I wasn't really the
real one I was the older one Ithen went about changing their
mind, as well as mine.
What it meant to me personallywas actually a recognition of
the accumulated knowledge that Ihave and how I can actually
(02:50):
help empower other people withthat knowledge.
It's not just to sit in mybrain and and go along.
For me it's there to to beshared.
But on a wider scale, forfearless women, it's been
absolutely wonderful therecognition and the recognition
for the organisation to be ableto go and talk to people,
particularly women's groups,about what we actually do.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
So tell us a little bit about that.
I mean, I think most peoplewill know that Fearless Women is
focused on helping girls andyoung women thrive, but what are
you actually doing on apractical level?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
On a practical level, it started in 2018.
There was some research done byANU about the mental health and
wellbeing of girls in the ACTand unfortunately, our girls
have the poorest mental healthof any group in the country.
There's a really unique set offactors that feed into that, and
so that was sort of the initialcatalyst.
(03:45):
And at the same time, thelovely Martin Fisk, who was then
the CEO of Men's Link, wasbeing asked for programs for
girls.
People were saying you do thisamazing stuff for boys.
Where's something equivalentfor girls?
So those two things cametogether and some people decided
to actually take action andthey got some seed funding and
(04:06):
then we were able to researchand work out what was needed.
So we looked at models aroundthe world.
We looked very closely at Men'sLink and I have to say they
were extremely generous.
They shared everything, alltheir information, with us, but
to see how we could buildprograms that actually did
empower girls, that actually, ona grassroots level, changed the
(04:27):
lives of young girls, and howdid we want to change that?
What did we want?
What did they want?
So we did a lot of research onwhat girls wanted, and they
wanted to know who they are.
They wanted to know about theirworld.
They wanted to know how theyfitted into their world.
They wanted to have confidenceand have a voice, to be able to
(04:48):
speak up, and they wanted thatfor the rest of their lives.
So they wanted resilience.
So we looked at that and wentwell, how do you get that?
We looked at where the girlswere at that time and we very
rarely use the word anxiety andstress, because we actually went
a step further.
What do you need to not haveanxiety and stress?
So we did that sort ofmodelling.
(05:08):
The programs that we do nowdeliver are school education.
The very first step is toactually recognise about
yourself and recognise how youwork.
So we go and talk with girlsNow.
Up until recently it was gradesfive to 10.
But due to the demand from theschools, we're now talking with
(05:29):
girls from grade three and wetalk to them about you know,
it's okay not to be okay, it'slike you're not alone, where to
go for help and how to helpsomeone they think may be
struggling.
So that's sort of one programwhich was the very first rollout
, that's called fearless future.
We then have another schoolprogram from that girls will
actually sometimes go.
I need more help and we have acounseling, one-on-one,
(05:51):
counseling, small group.
Counseling small group focuseson friendship and boundaries and
how to sort of relationshipsand of course then we have a
two-year mentoring program wheregirls are paired with volunteer
female mentors.
We've been very careful all theway from development we have
(06:12):
been evaluating to making surethat it is all adding value to
the young person's lives, and sofar everything's proven to be
working really well.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Good to hear Now.
I guess, though, there's somuch in what you've just said.
Why do girls in the ACT havesuch poor mental health outcomes
?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
So we have a really wonderful community.
We have a highly educated,highly engaged, very wealthy
community compared to the wholeof our country.
But in amongst that we havegirls who are here.
We have a highly mobilepopulation.
(06:53):
So the girls will be at schoolone day and one comes in and
says well, we've been posted toDarwin.
She has no choice in this.
She's just a month later pulledout of school and moves to
somewhere else across thecountry or the world.
So this friendship group has tothen reform.
Three or four years later thatyoung person may come back
generally, come with a defencefamily.
(07:14):
She'll come back Again.
Friendship groups have toreform.
So girls' friendship groups arein constant flux.
So the highly mobile populationmost of us come from elsewhere.
So young women don't haveextended family to talk to.
Aunties are really reallyimportant people, but if you
don't have a strong relationshipwith your aunt or an auntie
(07:36):
type figure, it means you can'tsort of when you're growing up,
say so why?
Why is mum being so mean to me?
You know you don't have thatexternal voice of reason.
So that's another one ourcollege system.
Unfortunately that transitionfrom high school to college at
that age for a lot of girls istraumatic and they start
(07:57):
worrying about it a few yearsearlier, and several other
reasons as well, which I can'tremember off the top of my head,
but there's a whole lot oflittle things you take each
individually.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Little things that add up.
And I guess is that materiallydifferent, do you think, for
girls compared to boys, becausethe same issues around mobile
population, lack of extendedfamilies apply across the
community right?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And the answer's yes.
Yeah, it does.
It affects girls more than itaffects boys.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, so you've set up Fearless Women in 2018, so
you've been going for sevenyears now.
So well done.
That's a big, big achievement.
How did you start?
Was it just you, um?
And how have you grown?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
so we um, we started delivering our programs through
just almost three years ago, um,before that there was 12 months
of research and um programdevelopment.
Uh, prior to that was, you know, actually getting the seed
funding together so we could, soI could be employed to do the
other things, and all that hastaken a long time.
(08:59):
So 2020, I think, was theinitial constitution and then
it's been a gradual developmentto that from that and we brought
on initially the one schoolprogram and mentoring with two
groups.
We called our pilot groups andwe evaluated them very closely
and watched what was happeningwith them, and they've now
graduated.
And then we've just beengradually adding programs to the
(09:21):
whole empowerment program.
We've brought it all under theone umbrella and call it a girls
empowerment program, becausethey actually work very well
together.
We find that sometimes a youngperson will come in through one
door and then will continue hersupport through other parts of
the program.
There's still a few more thingswe'd like to develop, but at
the moment they're sitting onthe whiteboard.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So how big is your team?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
So we have myself and a finance person, then we have
two program managers plus twoeducation officers and two
counsellors.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
So a team of eight relatively small, big jobs.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yes, and nearly all of them are part-time.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
So that must have some challenges in itself,
trying to navigate a significantworkload with a small group of
part-time people.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
It is yes, and I think we recognise that.
That one thing everybody in theteam has is a great sense of
commitment and connection towhat they're doing.
But making sure that everybodyyou know puts in their right
hours I'm a firm believer thatyou know if you're working the
hours you have to be paid forthe hours it's you yourself are
not a charity, um, and makingsure that everyone gets the
(10:36):
business support that they need,you know, whether it's
professional development orsalary sacrificing programs.
Keeping all that running on topof running programs is a big
challenge.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
yes, absolutely so.
You touched on funding a littleearlier, but how are you funded
?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
We're funded by the goodness of the people of the
ACT.
So we received last year asmall grant from the ACT
government to pilot thecounselling part of our program
and we're still seeking furthergovernment support.
We believe that we should besupported by government.
(11:16):
They're supporting the Boys'Programme, which is parallel to
ours, and everything we're doingis supporting the government's
mission of empowerment, theirwomen's programmes, as well as
keeping girls out of Canberrahospitals, out of the mental
health units.
So yeah, we're very muchenmeshed in the ecosystem and do
(11:36):
you have a fundraising programas well?
Speaker 1 (11:38):
um from the public we do.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
It is, it is small, uh, but yeah, we run some events
throughout the year.
Plus, we, um, are very keen tohave people support us with
donations or partnerships.
We're very open to to talkingto people about how they can be
part of it, given that we don'thave something that they can
come in and do because theprivacy of the young women
(12:00):
involved we can't inviteeverybody from Taubman's Paints
or whatever in to do somethingwith us.
So it's a different model, butwe seem to be able to find ways
to work with people.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
So if there's any business people listening to
this who might want to be doingsomething, putting something
back into the community, you'dlove to hear from them.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Certainly would.
Yeah, we all have young womenin our lives and if you've got a
14-year-old in your life,you'll know what it's like.
And if she's a 14 who'sachieving really well, imagine
what it'd be like if she wasn't.
You know what, if she wasunable to meet the challenges of
everyday life, if she wasunable to get out of bed of a
morning, if she couldn't go andjoin a social group because her
(12:42):
anxiety and her fear was so high.
So and sometimes it's justworking through those barriers,
having the extra person helpthem understand their world.
That gets the girls from beinga child to being an adult.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Now there will be people listening to this who
might perhaps roll their eyes atthat and say well, people just
need to harden up and be a bitmore resilient.
What is different about thecurrent generation, do you think
, compared to perhaps those ofus who are a bit older?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, so when we were growing up, everything we did
wasn't out there for publicscrutiny.
We had, you know we'd do stupidstuff.
Nobody knew about it you knowand future employers didn't know
about.
You know things that are insocial media now that you don't
(13:39):
want to be there.
The influencers are tellingthem that you know, if your
teeth aren't perfectly white,then you know you're a failure
at life.
Really, if you don't have adouble degree in something,
you're a failure at life.
So the messages they're gettingare not empowering messages and
they're constantly receivingthese messages from all
(14:01):
different angles.
Yeah, we had.
You know we had, and they don'thave time to switch off Because
it's always there, you know, inschools.
Now you know that most schoolsnow phones aren't allowed.
That's a great move becausethey can switch off.
It's not sitting there as atool, but also as a threat.
So it's that you know theyreally connect.
(14:23):
Girls are really connected withthe world.
They worry about what'shappening in Ukraine.
They worry about messagescoming out of the United States.
They worry about messages fromthe boys around them who are
listening to the Andrew Taits ofour world.
So they're really deep thinkers.
They really want to get itright and even part of that is
(14:44):
the perfectionism Girls strivefor perfectionism.
Part of that comes frominsecurity, because they're
being told they're not goodenough.
It's a really messy worldthey're in.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Well, it's great that Fearless Women is there to try
and help manage some of theissues that are there, but
setting up a not-for-profit,particularly in the current sort
of environment, is not for thefaint-hearted in itself.
What were the challenges andthe lessons that you learned
along the way?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, the challenges.
I think the first challenge wasnavigating government
bureaucracy.
We had an angel investorsitting in the wings and that
investment was the thing thatwas going to get us started.
But we had to have DGR statusand that was a huge challenge
just dealing with the governmentto get that at the time, and
(15:39):
that then led into having tocurb my natural impatience.
You know, I wanted it all now.
Everything had to be done and somaking sure we were doing
things in a measured pace andgetting it as right as we
possibly could in the time,convincing people sometimes to
have to invest in things thatweren't obvious to them.
(16:01):
So and I think the thing thatcomes to mind the most is our
CRM.
You know that's a hugeinvestment, but a necessary
investment to manage our dataand our information.
We started without it with ourfirst mentoring cohort and I
think we were running like 17spreadsheets when we only had 20
people in the office and I wentand it just takes one error,
(16:26):
one error in one spreadsheet,and we'll be kaput.
So, yeah, and then the time toinvest to develop that, the time
to build a website, yeah,everything.
It was quite exciting becauseeverything had to be done all
the policies, all the procedures.
So doing that, doing it in theright order and getting the
right information.
Um, yeah, we had lots and lotsof helpers as well, and it's
(16:50):
wonderful to help, but sometimesyou don't need the helpers
right now.
You know it's like, oh, that'sreally great idea, but right now
we have to focus on otherthings, and so managing other
people's expectations as wellwas a challenge.
And, of course, then just theongoing funding.
You're just keeping the flow ofincome so we can actually build
(17:12):
and go forward.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
So if you were doing it again, heaven forbid, what
would you do differently?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I'd love to do it again.
That's a really good question,because I think I was really
lucky in that we did so manythings the right way.
I think one of the bonuses washaving an extremely good board
who weren't there for the ego.
They were there to give theirexpertise, Because when you're
(17:40):
the only employee, as I was inmy sewing room at home, they had
to give me the space to do whatI needed to do, but they were
my resources to draw upon.
So we having the right.
You know, we had someone whoruns a marketing company and
advertising an accountant havingthe right resources sitting
around me.
I'm just trying to think whatI'd do differently.
(18:02):
Well, it sounds like actuallyyou had a model that worked
pretty well, I think we had areally good model and I just
think the openness and thehonesty really helped.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
So you're a few years down the track now in terms of
implementing and runningprograms.
Yes, what sort of impact haveyou had?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
We've changed lives.
We've changed lives for thebetter.
So when I, you know, talk togirls and Actually I'll give you
an example A few weeks ago Ijust happened to be in Civic and
one of the young girls who,when we interviewed her several
years ago to come onto thementoring program, she was so
traumatised.
She was so traumatised sheactually couldn't speak in the
(18:41):
in the pro in her interview.
She had had some serious demandinvolved with some serious
domestic violence etc.
And she was just, yeah, justcoming into that interview but
must have had a great a core ofsteel to actually come to that
meeting, came to to the meetingwith her parent and agreed to
(19:02):
join the mentor program.
And so now she's three yearsdown the track for her.
I happened to bump into her theother day and she has a lovely
partner.
She's in her late teens, she'sgot a lovely partner, she has
been offered a terrific job andshe said I think I've, but I'm
deferring that decision for 12months because I'm not 100%
certain.
So she's developed really goodjudgment and you could just see
(19:24):
the confidence and the happinessin that young person and I
remember her from, you know,three years earlier and that
just shows the change that youcan do.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
That's a fantastic story and I guess it must be
really good to kind of see thathappening.
But I guess it sort of doesraise a question for me.
You talk about this girl havinga core of steel, that kind of
got her involved.
But how do the kids getinvolved?
(19:55):
Do they need to have enoughresilience to say, actually I
want to be involved, or is theresomeone sort of pushing them
along the way as well?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
A little bit of both.
Applications come in via ourwebsite and the application can
be put in by the young personherself who has heard about us
when we've been to talk at theschool.
Often it's put in by theirschool.
The teachers will say oh, youknow, do you think maybe you
could do need a bit of supportwith this?
So there's schools at the act.
(20:24):
Schools are excellent athelping young people in that way
.
Uh, we get a lot of referralsfrom government agencies.
More than half our referralscome from government agencies or
other community services, likemary mead, um, whoever else is
there, you know.
So there's a lot of, as I said,part of that ecosystem we've
seen as very much part of thesupport network.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So how many referrals are you getting each year,
roughly?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
About 400.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
And have you got the resources to meet that demand?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
So at the moment we have about 89 girls in mentoring
and we've got about 200 on thewait list.
In counselling we have have, Ithink there's about 38 girls
currently seeing the counselors,plus the fearless together.
So the small group empowermentprogram, uh, and I think we've
got about 120 girls on the waitlist for that.
(21:13):
So, and you know, the schoolprogram, our outreach school
program, we can only do what wecan do when we have had to limit
that just because we don't havethe resources so um, we're not
limited by mentors.
The women in Canberra brilliant.
They're absolutely wonderfulthe way they put their hand up
and say, yep, I'll volunteer.
I really understand what thisthese young girls are going
(21:34):
through and I want to help.
So we have enough mentors.
What we don't have is theresources to actually grow.
Yeah, and that's.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
That's a challenge, not resources to actually grow.
Yeah, and that's a challengenot unique to your business, I
suspect In terms of managingthat volunteer base.
You've got people putting theirhands up wanting to be mentors.
Are there particular compliancerules that frustrate you around
that?
Are there things you need toworry about from a health and
safety point of view, from aworking with vulnerable people
point of view, that you need toneed to manage?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
well, we do have to very carefully screen our
mentors.
One we are putting an adultwith a vulnerable young person,
so we have to make sure thatthat outhouse is safe.
So of course we do.
You know, yes, and working withvulnerable people is, you know,
step one.
Uh, step two is, you know,quite a comprehensive
application process, because weneed to get to know these people
(22:22):
to make sure that they are in agood space to be able to mentor
.
We interview all our prospectivementors to get to know them a
little bit, and then a mentoring.
Then we run a mentoring programas well, as well as online
sorry ongoing professionaldevelopment, and by the time
people get to the end of thementoring, we know them well
enough to say, yeah, thisperson's going to make a great
(22:44):
mentor.
Things like whether they mentoran older or younger person we
all have our own preferences.
I mentor a 12-year-old.
I mean, I couldn't think ofanything worse than mentoring a
16 or 17-year-old, becausethat's my preference.
I get along well with theyounger girls.
So, yeah, we screen the mentorsvery carefully and we also with
the younger girls.
So, yeah, we, we've kept men.
We screen the mentors verycarefully, um, and we also with
(23:05):
the young girls.
We interview them and we makesure that this program is a
program that they want to bepart of, because if they don't
want to be part of it, it's notgoing to work.
We take time to also match thementors and the young people
with a commonality, becausecommonality is key to success.
So we make sure that theoutdoorsies are with the
(23:25):
outdoorsies and the book readerslike to be with the book
readers.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
So a lot of work to do to get that right, I imagine.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
There is a lot of work, yeah, and the team we have
a great.
As I said, the CRM has it allslayed out and we have a great
system running.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Now it sounds like you and the team are doing an
amazing job of helping our youngwomen through some challenges,
but I guess the broader questionis well, you're kind of dealing
with some problems that areemerging in society.
What do you think we can do asa community to help girls and
young women feel safe, valuedand empowered?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
more generally, yeah, you know, we've just had
International Women's Day andit's the themes were, you know,
accelerate action.
Well, you know, and what actionis that?
You know.
So, you know, well, supportingthe supporters one thing you
know supporting organisationslike Fearless Women, but also
organisations like Men's Link,because Men's Link is growing.
Good men, you know men who nowknow how to interact with women.
(24:27):
So that's, you know, it's notall one-sided.
Also, just being aware of whatis happening around you and
calling out bias, you know, ifyou see something or you think
that's not quite right, callingit out, whether it's in a
conversation at home orsomething you see on television
or on.
You know the kids are talkingabout whatever they've seen on
their phone, saying, well, howdoes that really have a
conversation with them about it?
(24:47):
And something I saw the otherday I was in a news agency and
they had on the left they hadthe Home, beautiful and the
cooking magazines and theWomen's Weekly, and way over
there on the right was thebusiness magazines and the boat
and camp and fishing and the gunmagazines.
(25:09):
And I looked at it and I wentwell, what message is being sent
here?
Home, cooking, women,businessmen.
So I, you know, as you wouldexpect, I went and spoke to the
newsagent and said do you seewhat's happening here?
And he actually looked at meand went no.
And I said but the messageyou're sending to anybody who
(25:30):
comes in to look at any magazineis that women don't belong over
there and men don't belong overhere.
And he went oh okay, so I haveyet to go back and check.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, and it's an interesting point, isn't it?
Because at one level, thenewsagent may well be thinking
well, we'll just put magazinesthat will appeal to a particular
segment of the market together,which kind of is logical from a
retail point of view.
But you're right, it raises areally interesting question
about the stereotypes and theexpectations in a world where
(26:03):
anyone can do anything.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah any man can decorate a house and any woman
can run a business, so why don'twe have them all mixed up
alphabetically?
Let's just choose a completelydifferent way of doing it.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Absolutely, really interesting conversation.
Now, if our listeners want toget involved as mentors,
supporters, advocates forfearless women, what do they
need to do?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Probably the starting place is our website.
We have lots of informationthere and you can apply to be a
mentor.
But also if you have a youngperson in your life who's not
thriving which is the word weuse whether the girls are
experiencing bullying at school,stress, have ADHD, are
neurodivergent, families goingthrough trauma which is
(26:51):
affecting her development.
And the girls we support comefrom all levels of our society,
all socioeconomic groups, andnot just from one particular
area.
There's an application formthere.
You don't have to go to a GPand get a referral.
It's a very straightforwardprocess.
Yeah, so through the websiteand the same.
If you want to support us or ifyou have a great idea for
(27:12):
fundraising, you could pop thatthrough.
That way, being a small team,it's very easy to get things
through to the right person.
Excellent and your website iseasy to get things through to
the right person Excellent.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
And your website is fearlesswomenorgau.
Fantastic, glenda Stevens,thank you so much for joining us
here on the Canberra BusinessPodcast.
I'm Greg Harford.
I am the Chief Executive of theCanberra Business Chamber and
I've been talking to GlendaStevens, the founding Chief
Executive of Fearless Women, agreat organisation here in
Canberra doing great things totry and help young women lead a
(27:43):
better, more fulfilling andempowered life.
So thanks for joining us,glenda.
It's been great having a chat.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Thank you very much for talking with me.
I've enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
And just a reminder that this episode of the
Canberra Business Podcast hasbeen brought to you by the
Canberra Business Chamber withthe support of CareSuper, an
industry super fund withcompetitive fees, returns,
exceptional service and a focuson real care.
You can learn more atcaresupercomau and don't forget
to follow us on the CanberraBusiness Podcast on your
favourite podcast platform forfuture episodes.
We'll catch you next time.
Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast.
I'm Greg Harford, your hostfrom the Canberra Business
Chamber, and today I'm joined byGlenda Stephens, the founding
chief executive of FearlessWomen.
Glenda, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thank you, Greg.
I'm really pleased to be heretalking to you.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Now you've got a really interesting career career
and we'll get into talkingabout Fearless Women shortly but
you're a highly experiencedcommunity and business leader.
You're a former Air Force airtraffic controller and a past
chair of ACTACOS.
You were the 2024 ACT SeniorWoman of the Year, as well as
being the founding CEO ofFearless Women.
(00:45):
You've had a fascinating careerjourney.
What inspired your transitioninto the not-for-profit sector?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
All through my life I've had a social bent.
Even when I was at school I wasalways very involved in the
community activities and mycareer in the Air Force.
In a way, I saw that ascommunity service, in that I was
giving to the wider community.
And then that came to an enddue to lack of childcare.
(01:15):
I had to look around and seewhat else I could do.
I'd always had an interest infinance and numbers, so I
retrained as an accountant.
I started at the local TAFEcollege and then went to
university et cetera, butrealised I was a little bit too
creative to stay in that fieldand so trans looked at what did
(01:36):
interest me, where my interests,and so I ended up sort of in a
very large school in Sydneysupporting girls et cetera, and
so it was really an unplannedseries of fortunate accidents
that ended me up in thenot-for-profit sector.
Having said that, everythingI've done has actually
contributed to me being here.
(01:57):
So the things I learned in theAir Force about teamwork,
working with other people,leadership, et cetera, has all
been a foundation for what I'mdoing now.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
And last year congratulations.
A little belatedly you werenamed ACT Senior Woman of the
Year.
What drove that and what doesthat recognition mean for you
personally?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Well, first of all, it was the recognition that I
actually was over 60.
I was trying to ignore that.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
About 60 is the new 20, right.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yes, after my sons told me that I wasn't really the
real one I was the older one Ithen went about changing their
mind, as well as mine.
What it meant to me personallywas actually a recognition of
the accumulated knowledge that Ihave and how I can actually
(02:50):
help empower other people withthat knowledge.
It's not just to sit in mybrain and and go along.
For me it's there to to beshared.
But on a wider scale, forfearless women, it's been
absolutely wonderful therecognition and the recognition
for the organisation to be ableto go and talk to people,
particularly women's groups,about what we actually do.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
So tell us a little bit about that.
I mean, I think most peoplewill know that Fearless Women is
focused on helping girls andyoung women thrive, but what are
you actually doing on apractical level?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
On a practical level, it started in 2018.
There was some research done byANU about the mental health and
wellbeing of girls in the ACTand unfortunately, our girls
have the poorest mental healthof any group in the country.
There's a really unique set offactors that feed into that, and
so that was sort of the initialcatalyst.
(03:45):
And at the same time, thelovely Martin Fisk, who was then
the CEO of Men's Link, wasbeing asked for programs for
girls.
People were saying you do thisamazing stuff for boys.
Where's something equivalentfor girls?
So those two things cametogether and some people decided
to actually take action andthey got some seed funding and
(04:06):
then we were able to researchand work out what was needed.
So we looked at models aroundthe world.
We looked very closely at Men'sLink and I have to say they
were extremely generous.
They shared everything, alltheir information, with us, but
to see how we could buildprograms that actually did
empower girls, that actually, ona grassroots level, changed the
(04:27):
lives of young girls, and howdid we want to change that?
What did we want?
What did they want?
So we did a lot of research onwhat girls wanted, and they
wanted to know who they are.
They wanted to know about theirworld.
They wanted to know how theyfitted into their world.
They wanted to have confidenceand have a voice, to be able to
(04:48):
speak up, and they wanted thatfor the rest of their lives.
So they wanted resilience.
So we looked at that and wentwell, how do you get that?
We looked at where the girlswere at that time and we very
rarely use the word anxiety andstress, because we actually went
a step further.
What do you need to not haveanxiety and stress?
So we did that sort ofmodelling.
(05:08):
The programs that we do nowdeliver are school education.
The very first step is toactually recognise about
yourself and recognise how youwork.
So we go and talk with girlsNow.
Up until recently it was gradesfive to 10.
But due to the demand from theschools, we're now talking with
(05:29):
girls from grade three and wetalk to them about you know,
it's okay not to be okay, it'slike you're not alone, where to
go for help and how to helpsomeone they think may be
struggling.
So that's sort of one programwhich was the very first rollout
, that's called fearless future.
We then have another schoolprogram from that girls will
actually sometimes go.
I need more help and we have acounseling, one-on-one,
(05:51):
counseling, small group.
Counseling small group focuseson friendship and boundaries and
how to sort of relationshipsand of course then we have a
two-year mentoring program wheregirls are paired with volunteer
female mentors.
We've been very careful all theway from development we have
(06:12):
been evaluating to making surethat it is all adding value to
the young person's lives, and sofar everything's proven to be
working really well.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Good to hear Now.
I guess, though, there's somuch in what you've just said.
Why do girls in the ACT havesuch poor mental health outcomes
?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
So we have a really wonderful community.
We have a highly educated,highly engaged, very wealthy
community compared to the wholeof our country.
But in amongst that we havegirls who are here.
We have a highly mobilepopulation.
(06:53):
So the girls will be at schoolone day and one comes in and
says well, we've been posted toDarwin.
She has no choice in this.
She's just a month later pulledout of school and moves to
somewhere else across thecountry or the world.
So this friendship group has tothen reform.
Three or four years later thatyoung person may come back
generally, come with a defencefamily.
(07:14):
She'll come back Again.
Friendship groups have toreform.
So girls' friendship groups arein constant flux.
So the highly mobile populationmost of us come from elsewhere.
So young women don't haveextended family to talk to.
Aunties are really reallyimportant people, but if you
don't have a strong relationshipwith your aunt or an auntie
(07:36):
type figure, it means you can'tsort of when you're growing up,
say so why?
Why is mum being so mean to me?
You know you don't have thatexternal voice of reason.
So that's another one ourcollege system.
Unfortunately that transitionfrom high school to college at
that age for a lot of girls istraumatic and they start
(07:57):
worrying about it a few yearsearlier, and several other
reasons as well, which I can'tremember off the top of my head,
but there's a whole lot oflittle things you take each
individually.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Little things that add up.
And I guess is that materiallydifferent, do you think, for
girls compared to boys, becausethe same issues around mobile
population, lack of extendedfamilies apply across the
community right?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And the answer's yes.
Yeah, it does.
It affects girls more than itaffects boys.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, so you've set up Fearless Women in 2018, so
you've been going for sevenyears now.
So well done.
That's a big, big achievement.
How did you start?
Was it just you, um?
And how have you grown?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
so we um, we started delivering our programs through
just almost three years ago, um,before that there was 12 months
of research and um programdevelopment.
Uh, prior to that was, you know, actually getting the seed
funding together so we could, soI could be employed to do the
other things, and all that hastaken a long time.
(08:59):
So 2020, I think, was theinitial constitution and then
it's been a gradual developmentto that from that and we brought
on initially the one schoolprogram and mentoring with two
groups.
We called our pilot groups andwe evaluated them very closely
and watched what was happeningwith them, and they've now
graduated.
And then we've just beengradually adding programs to the
(09:21):
whole empowerment program.
We've brought it all under theone umbrella and call it a girls
empowerment program, becausethey actually work very well
together.
We find that sometimes a youngperson will come in through one
door and then will continue hersupport through other parts of
the program.
There's still a few more thingswe'd like to develop, but at
the moment they're sitting onthe whiteboard.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So how big is your team?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
So we have myself and a finance person, then we have
two program managers plus twoeducation officers and two
counsellors.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
So a team of eight relatively small, big jobs.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yes, and nearly all of them are part-time.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
So that must have some challenges in itself,
trying to navigate a significantworkload with a small group of
part-time people.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
It is yes, and I think we recognise that.
That one thing everybody in theteam has is a great sense of
commitment and connection towhat they're doing.
But making sure that everybodyyou know puts in their right
hours I'm a firm believer thatyou know if you're working the
hours you have to be paid forthe hours it's you yourself are
not a charity, um, and makingsure that everyone gets the
(10:36):
business support that they need,you know, whether it's
professional development orsalary sacrificing programs.
Keeping all that running on topof running programs is a big
challenge.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
yes, absolutely so.
You touched on funding a littleearlier, but how are you funded
?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
We're funded by the goodness of the people of the
ACT.
So we received last year asmall grant from the ACT
government to pilot thecounselling part of our program
and we're still seeking furthergovernment support.
We believe that we should besupported by government.
(11:16):
They're supporting the Boys'Programme, which is parallel to
ours, and everything we're doingis supporting the government's
mission of empowerment, theirwomen's programmes, as well as
keeping girls out of Canberrahospitals, out of the mental
health units.
So yeah, we're very muchenmeshed in the ecosystem and do
(11:36):
you have a fundraising programas well?
Speaker 1 (11:38):
um from the public we do.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
It is, it is small, uh, but yeah, we run some events
throughout the year.
Plus, we, um, are very keen tohave people support us with
donations or partnerships.
We're very open to to talkingto people about how they can be
part of it, given that we don'thave something that they can
come in and do because theprivacy of the young women
(12:00):
involved we can't inviteeverybody from Taubman's Paints
or whatever in to do somethingwith us.
So it's a different model, butwe seem to be able to find ways
to work with people.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
So if there's any business people listening to
this who might want to be doingsomething, putting something
back into the community, you'dlove to hear from them.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Certainly would.
Yeah, we all have young womenin our lives and if you've got a
14-year-old in your life,you'll know what it's like.
And if she's a 14 who'sachieving really well, imagine
what it'd be like if she wasn't.
You know what, if she wasunable to meet the challenges of
everyday life, if she wasunable to get out of bed of a
morning, if she couldn't go andjoin a social group because her
(12:42):
anxiety and her fear was so high.
So and sometimes it's justworking through those barriers,
having the extra person helpthem understand their world.
That gets the girls from beinga child to being an adult.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Now there will be people listening to this who
might perhaps roll their eyes atthat and say well, people just
need to harden up and be a bitmore resilient.
What is different about thecurrent generation, do you think
, compared to perhaps those ofus who are a bit older?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, so when we were growing up, everything we did
wasn't out there for publicscrutiny.
We had, you know we'd do stupidstuff.
Nobody knew about it you knowand future employers didn't know
about.
You know things that are insocial media now that you don't
(13:39):
want to be there.
The influencers are tellingthem that you know, if your
teeth aren't perfectly white,then you know you're a failure
at life.
Really, if you don't have adouble degree in something,
you're a failure at life.
So the messages they're gettingare not empowering messages and
they're constantly receivingthese messages from all
(14:01):
different angles.
Yeah, we had.
You know we had, and they don'thave time to switch off Because
it's always there, you know, inschools.
Now you know that most schoolsnow phones aren't allowed.
That's a great move becausethey can switch off.
It's not sitting there as atool, but also as a threat.
So it's that you know theyreally connect.
(14:23):
Girls are really connected withthe world.
They worry about what'shappening in Ukraine.
They worry about messagescoming out of the United States.
They worry about messages fromthe boys around them who are
listening to the Andrew Taits ofour world.
So they're really deep thinkers.
They really want to get itright and even part of that is
(14:44):
the perfectionism Girls strivefor perfectionism.
Part of that comes frominsecurity, because they're
being told they're not goodenough.
It's a really messy worldthey're in.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Well, it's great that Fearless Women is there to try
and help manage some of theissues that are there, but
setting up a not-for-profit,particularly in the current sort
of environment, is not for thefaint-hearted in itself.
What were the challenges andthe lessons that you learned
along the way?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, the challenges.
I think the first challenge wasnavigating government
bureaucracy.
We had an angel investorsitting in the wings and that
investment was the thing thatwas going to get us started.
But we had to have DGR statusand that was a huge challenge
just dealing with the governmentto get that at the time, and
(15:39):
that then led into having tocurb my natural impatience.
You know, I wanted it all now.
Everything had to be done and somaking sure we were doing
things in a measured pace andgetting it as right as we
possibly could in the time,convincing people sometimes to
have to invest in things thatweren't obvious to them.
(16:01):
So and I think the thing thatcomes to mind the most is our
CRM.
You know that's a hugeinvestment, but a necessary
investment to manage our dataand our information.
We started without it with ourfirst mentoring cohort and I
think we were running like 17spreadsheets when we only had 20
people in the office and I wentand it just takes one error,
(16:26):
one error in one spreadsheet,and we'll be kaput.
So, yeah, and then the time toinvest to develop that, the time
to build a website, yeah,everything.
It was quite exciting becauseeverything had to be done all
the policies, all the procedures.
So doing that, doing it in theright order and getting the
right information.
Um, yeah, we had lots and lotsof helpers as well, and it's
(16:50):
wonderful to help, but sometimesyou don't need the helpers
right now.
You know it's like, oh, that'sreally great idea, but right now
we have to focus on otherthings, and so managing other
people's expectations as wellwas a challenge.
And, of course, then just theongoing funding.
You're just keeping the flow ofincome so we can actually build
(17:12):
and go forward.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
So if you were doing it again, heaven forbid, what
would you do differently?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I'd love to do it again.
That's a really good question,because I think I was really
lucky in that we did so manythings the right way.
I think one of the bonuses washaving an extremely good board
who weren't there for the ego.
They were there to give theirexpertise, Because when you're
(17:40):
the only employee, as I was inmy sewing room at home, they had
to give me the space to do whatI needed to do, but they were
my resources to draw upon.
So we having the right.
You know, we had someone whoruns a marketing company and
advertising an accountant havingthe right resources sitting
around me.
I'm just trying to think whatI'd do differently.
(18:02):
Well, it sounds like actuallyyou had a model that worked
pretty well, I think we had areally good model and I just
think the openness and thehonesty really helped.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
So you're a few years down the track now in terms of
implementing and runningprograms.
Yes, what sort of impact haveyou had?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
We've changed lives.
We've changed lives for thebetter.
So when I, you know, talk togirls and Actually I'll give you
an example A few weeks ago Ijust happened to be in Civic and
one of the young girls who,when we interviewed her several
years ago to come onto thementoring program, she was so
traumatised.
She was so traumatised sheactually couldn't speak in the
(18:41):
in the pro in her interview.
She had had some serious demandinvolved with some serious
domestic violence etc.
And she was just, yeah, justcoming into that interview but
must have had a great a core ofsteel to actually come to that
meeting, came to to the meetingwith her parent and agreed to
(19:02):
join the mentor program.
And so now she's three yearsdown the track for her.
I happened to bump into her theother day and she has a lovely
partner.
She's in her late teens, she'sgot a lovely partner, she has
been offered a terrific job andshe said I think I've, but I'm
deferring that decision for 12months because I'm not 100%
certain.
So she's developed really goodjudgment and you could just see
(19:24):
the confidence and the happinessin that young person and I
remember her from, you know,three years earlier and that
just shows the change that youcan do.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
That's a fantastic story and I guess it must be
really good to kind of see thathappening.
But I guess it sort of doesraise a question for me.
You talk about this girl havinga core of steel, that kind of
got her involved.
But how do the kids getinvolved?
(19:55):
Do they need to have enoughresilience to say, actually I
want to be involved, or is theresomeone sort of pushing them
along the way as well?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
A little bit of both.
Applications come in via ourwebsite and the application can
be put in by the young personherself who has heard about us
when we've been to talk at theschool.
Often it's put in by theirschool.
The teachers will say oh, youknow, do you think maybe you
could do need a bit of supportwith this?
So there's schools at the act.
(20:24):
Schools are excellent athelping young people in that way
.
Uh, we get a lot of referralsfrom government agencies.
More than half our referralscome from government agencies or
other community services, likemary mead, um, whoever else is
there, you know.
So there's a lot of, as I said,part of that ecosystem we've
seen as very much part of thesupport network.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So how many referrals are you getting each year,
roughly?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
About 400.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
And have you got the resources to meet that demand?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
So at the moment we have about 89 girls in mentoring
and we've got about 200 on thewait list.
In counselling we have have, Ithink there's about 38 girls
currently seeing the counselors,plus the fearless together.
So the small group empowermentprogram, uh, and I think we've
got about 120 girls on the waitlist for that.
(21:13):
So, and you know, the schoolprogram, our outreach school
program, we can only do what wecan do when we have had to limit
that just because we don't havethe resources so um, we're not
limited by mentors.
The women in Canberra brilliant.
They're absolutely wonderfulthe way they put their hand up
and say, yep, I'll volunteer.
I really understand what thisthese young girls are going
(21:34):
through and I want to help.
So we have enough mentors.
What we don't have is theresources to actually grow.
Yeah, and that's.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
That's a challenge, not resources to actually grow.
Yeah, and that's a challengenot unique to your business, I
suspect In terms of managingthat volunteer base.
You've got people putting theirhands up wanting to be mentors.
Are there particular compliancerules that frustrate you around
that?
Are there things you need toworry about from a health and
safety point of view, from aworking with vulnerable people
point of view, that you need toneed to manage?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
well, we do have to very carefully screen our
mentors.
One we are putting an adultwith a vulnerable young person,
so we have to make sure thatthat outhouse is safe.
So of course we do.
You know, yes, and working withvulnerable people is, you know,
step one.
Uh, step two is, you know,quite a comprehensive
application process, because weneed to get to know these people
(22:22):
to make sure that they are in agood space to be able to mentor
.
We interview all our prospectivementors to get to know them a
little bit, and then a mentoring.
Then we run a mentoring programas well, as well as online
sorry ongoing professionaldevelopment, and by the time
people get to the end of thementoring, we know them well
enough to say, yeah, thisperson's going to make a great
(22:44):
mentor.
Things like whether they mentoran older or younger person we
all have our own preferences.
I mentor a 12-year-old.
I mean, I couldn't think ofanything worse than mentoring a
16 or 17-year-old, becausethat's my preference.
I get along well with theyounger girls.
So, yeah, we screen the mentorsvery carefully and we also with
the younger girls.
So, yeah, we, we've kept men.
We screen the mentors verycarefully, um, and we also with
(23:05):
the young girls.
We interview them and we makesure that this program is a
program that they want to bepart of, because if they don't
want to be part of it, it's notgoing to work.
We take time to also match thementors and the young people
with a commonality, becausecommonality is key to success.
So we make sure that theoutdoorsies are with the
(23:25):
outdoorsies and the book readerslike to be with the book
readers.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
So a lot of work to do to get that right, I imagine.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
There is a lot of work, yeah, and the team we have
a great.
As I said, the CRM has it allslayed out and we have a great
system running.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Now it sounds like you and the team are doing an
amazing job of helping our youngwomen through some challenges,
but I guess the broader questionis well, you're kind of dealing
with some problems that areemerging in society.
What do you think we can do asa community to help girls and
young women feel safe, valuedand empowered?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
more generally, yeah, you know, we've just had
International Women's Day andit's the themes were, you know,
accelerate action.
Well, you know, and what actionis that?
You know.
So, you know, well, supportingthe supporters one thing you
know supporting organisationslike Fearless Women, but also
organisations like Men's Link,because Men's Link is growing.
Good men, you know men who nowknow how to interact with women.
(24:27):
So that's, you know, it's notall one-sided.
Also, just being aware of whatis happening around you and
calling out bias, you know, ifyou see something or you think
that's not quite right, callingit out, whether it's in a
conversation at home orsomething you see on television
or on.
You know the kids are talkingabout whatever they've seen on
their phone, saying, well, howdoes that really have a
conversation with them about it?
(24:47):
And something I saw the otherday I was in a news agency and
they had on the left they hadthe Home, beautiful and the
cooking magazines and theWomen's Weekly, and way over
there on the right was thebusiness magazines and the boat
and camp and fishing and the gunmagazines.
(25:09):
And I looked at it and I wentwell, what message is being sent
here?
Home, cooking, women,businessmen.
So I, you know, as you wouldexpect, I went and spoke to the
newsagent and said do you seewhat's happening here?
And he actually looked at meand went no.
And I said but the messageyou're sending to anybody who
(25:30):
comes in to look at any magazineis that women don't belong over
there and men don't belong overhere.
And he went oh okay, so I haveyet to go back and check.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, and it's an interesting point, isn't it?
Because at one level, thenewsagent may well be thinking
well, we'll just put magazinesthat will appeal to a particular
segment of the market together,which kind of is logical from a
retail point of view.
But you're right, it raises areally interesting question
about the stereotypes and theexpectations in a world where
(26:03):
anyone can do anything.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah any man can decorate a house and any woman
can run a business, so why don'twe have them all mixed up
alphabetically?
Let's just choose a completelydifferent way of doing it.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Absolutely, really interesting conversation.
Now, if our listeners want toget involved as mentors,
supporters, advocates forfearless women, what do they
need to do?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Probably the starting place is our website.
We have lots of informationthere and you can apply to be a
mentor.
But also if you have a youngperson in your life who's not
thriving which is the word weuse whether the girls are
experiencing bullying at school,stress, have ADHD, are
neurodivergent, families goingthrough trauma which is
(26:51):
affecting her development.
And the girls we support comefrom all levels of our society,
all socioeconomic groups, andnot just from one particular
area.
There's an application formthere.
You don't have to go to a GPand get a referral.
It's a very straightforwardprocess.
Yeah, so through the websiteand the same.
If you want to support us or ifyou have a great idea for
(27:12):
fundraising, you could pop thatthrough.
That way, being a small team,it's very easy to get things
through to the right person.
Excellent and your website iseasy to get things through to
the right person Excellent.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
And your website is fearlesswomenorgau.
Fantastic, glenda Stevens,thank you so much for joining us
here on the Canberra BusinessPodcast.
I'm Greg Harford.
I am the Chief Executive of theCanberra Business Chamber and
I've been talking to GlendaStevens, the founding Chief
Executive of Fearless Women, agreat organisation here in
Canberra doing great things totry and help young women lead a
(27:43):
better, more fulfilling andempowered life.
So thanks for joining us,glenda.
It's been great having a chat.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Thank you very much for talking with me.
I've enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
And just a reminder that this episode of the
Canberra Business Podcast hasbeen brought to you by the
Canberra Business Chamber withthe support of CareSuper, an
industry super fund withcompetitive fees, returns,
exceptional service and a focuson real care.
You can learn more atcaresupercomau and don't forget
to follow us on the CanberraBusiness Podcast on your
favourite podcast platform forfuture episodes.
We'll catch you next time.
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