March 13, 2025 • 26 mins
In this International Women's Day special episode, guest host Helen Leayr speaks with three inspiring Canberra businesswomen about their journeys, challenges, and visions for the future of gender equality in business.
- Raffy Sgroi shares how she transformed a traditional automotive business by creating a culture that includes women and focuses on customer communication
- Sarah C. Bailey discusses how perseverance through countless small moments of challenge helped her build resilience and confidence to speak up
- Nazia Ahmed explains how her biggest hurdle in founding Social Outcomes Lab as the first entrepreneur in her family was overcoming self-doubt
All panelists emphasise on the importance of encouraging young people to use their voices and bring fresh perspectives and discussed practical steps businesses can take to advance gender equality, including intentionally creating diverse teams and addressing pay gaps. They advocated for embracing and learning from failure rather than fearing it and highlighted the importance of women finding their "tribe" of supporters, mentors, and sponsors to help overcome challenges
Follow the Canberra Business Chamber on your favorite podcast platform to stay up to date with the latest editions of Canberra Business Podcast.
This episode is supported by CareSuper.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Good morning, Hi.
I'm Helen Lair, ManagingDirector of Communication Link,
and I'm your special guest hostof this International Women's
Day edition of the CanberraBusiness Podcast from the home
of the Canberra Business Chamber.
Greg Harford, CEO of theCanberra Business Chamber and
your usual podcast host, hasvacated the studio and left us
(00:32):
with his trusty microphone.
We'll see how we go.
In the week of InternationalWomen's Day, there's been a bevy
of events that celebrate thesuccess of women and remind us
of the work still to be done.
We have invited three trulyinspiring Canberra businesswomen
to join us and share theirstories.
I'm so looking forward tospending some time with them,
(00:54):
learning a little bit abouttheir business journey, sharing
our experiences and perhapsbeing inspired to do something
different.
So I'm going to introduce eachof them, one after the other.
Raffi Scroi, diversity andinclusion advocate, built on the
foundations of an outstanding,successful career that includes
co-founding a multi-milliondollar automotive service
(01:16):
business car mechanical services, running her own consultancy
business for the past 13 years.
Sage Advice Welcome, Raffi.
Thanks for coming Lovely to behere.
And secondly, we have SarahBailey, CFO and Director at
Penten, a world-leading securemobility applied AI and tactical
communication security solutionproviders.
(01:38):
Wow, Truly professional.
An advisory board member at theUniversity of Canberra, an
esteemed career in professionaland business consulting,
including time at Ernst YoungWelcome.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
And finally, Nazia Ahmed is an economist and is the
CEO and founder of the SocialOutcomes Lab, which has been
running for almost 10 years,providing improved life outcomes
for vulnerable people throughthe application of economics,
analytics and action planning.
Follows a professional careerwith PwC and New South Wales
government.
(02:10):
Welcome, Nazia.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Hi, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Oh, it's wonderful.
What a great bunch of women.
So UN Women Australia's themefor International Women's Day
2025 is March Forward,commemorating 30 years since the
UN's Beijing Declaration andPlatform for Action for
Achieving Gender Equality 30years.
I think most of us were in theearly stages of our business
(02:36):
career 30 years ago.
The CEO of UN Women Australiastated our 2025 events will
serve as a powerful platform toamplify voices, share insights
and mobilise action.
Simone Clark said we invite allAustralians to join us in this
crucial conversation and marchforward towards a more equitable
(02:57):
world.
So here we are, a conversationin Canberra about businesswomen
Perfect.
So I thought I'd start with aquestion to all of our panel
members as successfulbusinesswomen, I'm sure you've
had to march through, as ourtheme suggests, some challenges
along the way.
Tell us a little bit about yourbusiness journey and a time or
(03:18):
pivotal moment when you feellike you took a big step forward
.
What barrier did you overcome?
What did you march through,raffy?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
let's start with you uh well, I love that march
through, so definitely was a bigmarch.
Um, as we know, when you'rethinking about automotive
business, it's always like aboutmen's fixing cars, but I'm
always saying that it's muchmore about that.
So, for me, it was only tocreate that different culture
(03:46):
where, you know, we're includingwomen into the equation and so
my role is completely differentfrom fixing cars, but it's a
very important role.
So it was about communicatingwith customers, creating that
loyalty base and pursue apurpose which is, for us, was
actually including more femaleinto the industry and creating
(04:06):
that sort of skill and inclusionprogram.
So I think we succeeded in that.
Obviously, as many things muchwork to be done still, but yeah,
we're pretty pleased with theresults.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Marching through right on the ground, bringing
women into a non-traditionalbackground, into a skill that
perhaps we haven't thought ofbefore.
Yeah, wonderful Rafi Sarah.
What about you?
Background into a, into a skillthat perhaps we haven't thought
of before.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
yeah, wonderful raffy sarah, what about you?
I'd love to say that there wasone particular moment or pivotal
time where I felt like I took agreat big step forward.
But to be honest with you, um,I think there's been a whole
range of just moments that haverequired perseverance and
resiliency over that entire 30years.
(04:45):
So 30 years ago was actually in, obviously 1995, and I finished
school back then.
I have a 30 year reunion comingup and at the time I left
school thinking I can go and doand be anything I want, and at a
whole range of moments over thelast 30 years, it's just not as
(05:05):
straightforward as that,particularly being a woman, and
there's a range of differentcircumstances where you're not
either invited into the room orsomeone has a different
perspective around what theyexpect you to want or desire in
the context of career and life,life, and so for me, I would say
that my big step forward wasactually a combination of many,
(05:35):
many little moments where I justdidn't give up and I just
didn't accept the way things orthe way other people wanted
things.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
For me, perseverance with a capital P, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Nazia, what about your story?
How did you get where you are?
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Yeah, I think I always knew that I wanted to do
my own thing and I wanted tomake a difference in the world
in some way or shape.
And I think starting the SocialOutcomes Lab was a really big
deal for me, because I come froma family of professionals and
so there's no one else who's runa business in my family and so,
(06:07):
you know, having a seniorgovernment position, you know
that kind of stability, and thenstarting Solab it's called
Solab for short it was a reallybig deal and I think you know, I
mean there are so many barriers, like, firstly, being a woman
and then various otherintersectionalities of culture,
religion and whatever else.
(06:27):
But I think you know the biggestbarrier sometimes is just
within myself.
And so I think, getting intothat mindset of no, I can be
successful and I'm just willingto give it a go, and I think
that's how I started.
So I'm not expecting it to be,you know, running for however
long or whatever, but just thatI'm going to give it a go.
It's something I really Solab.
Not expecting it to be, youknow, running for however long
or whatever, but just that I'mgoing to give it a go.
It's something I really want todo it's something I'm really
(06:49):
passionate about and just keepgoing over.
You know every hurdle.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yes, so much of that.
I mean, the theme across all ofthose three stories is about
that inner drive.
Yeah, the inner drive to be thefirst to establish a business
in your family, to take allthose perseverance moments and
progress each one towards anoutcome.
And then for you, rafi, you'vehad to create a whole culture.
You've stepped into a placethat you probably thought you
(07:17):
were going to just be managingthe books yeah, that's often
what happens in a familybusiness, isn't it?
And then you've gone.
No, we can be something sogreat.
How did you get that internaldrive to do that, rafi?
What did you pull on to makethat happen?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Well, I'm always saying that you know you need a
great team behind.
You can just, like you know,think of the big change, or you
can think about including morefemale in the industry.
But I've got to give like a bigyou know merit to my husband as
well.
That has a man been in theindustry for 45 years now.
He actually embraced thatchange, he trusted my vision and
(07:50):
he actually support that.
So, and I think when you'recreating that big sort of you
know trust in your team isactually make things come a
little bit easier.
And I agree with Sarah, it'sall about that imposter syndrome
.
Sometime, you know, you need tojust put in your big pants on
and say, like you know what Ideserve to be here and I
(08:10):
actually have something to givethat he needs to be heard.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
Was there somebody, Nazia, whoparticularly gave you that
strength to go?
Rafi talked about her husband,but is there somebody who really
pushed you out of the nest?
Speaker 4 (08:29):
You know what?
I have to give a lot of creditto my ex-bosses one at New South
Wales Government and previouslyat PwC as well, and I think
they just believed in me so much.
For example, at PwC, I got todo the most incredible projects
that were way beyond my gradefor example, with this you know
this immense support.
And then also at New SouthWales government, my ex-boss she
(08:49):
was such a pioneer in the spaceand she was, you know, she
always offered so much supportand encouragement.
So I think people like thatacross my journey kind of really
helped me.
And then when I started,whenever I needed some help when
even, you know, 10 years on, Icalled my ex-boss at PwC when I
was having like a challenge witha client, how do I, how do I
(09:11):
overcome this?
So you know it's.
I think the mentors have beenreally, really wonderful.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
It's such an important thing having mentors
and people you can call on, butit also requires a bit of inner
gumph.
I reckon I've been in mybusiness for almost 30 years, so
just not not much different tothe time we've just been talking
about, and I think I look back.
There's a few items of peoplewho have stepped in and made a
difference, but I'm a bit likeyou, sarah.
(09:37):
That perseverance then.
Oh well, I'm just going to giveit a go.
What do you think?
Sometimes some of that is aboutnot being afraid to fail.
Was that?
Did that impact you, sarah?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
A little bit.
I think I'm finding I'm notafraid to raise my voice and I
don't know if that comes withage and experience, but I'm
finding increasingly so.
I just will point out thethings that, honestly, are just
either not acceptable or headingin a direction, that are that
(10:08):
could become unacceptable.
I think I've probably alwaysdone that, to be honest.
I'm sure my parents would say Idid that quite a lot as a child
.
But even through the earlystages of my career there are
definitely points at which I'vejust always sort of used my
voice and I think sometimes thentoo, when you raise your voice
(10:30):
and point out a topic and othersgo yeah, that's a really
important point you've made.
That can absolutely be with.
You know, you can do so in arespectful way.
That for me provides a greaterlevel of confidence that
actually that is important andright, to keep respectfully
pointing out the things that arenot acceptable, and I do think
that that happens.
(10:51):
I mean, it certainly stillhappens today.
Sometimes I get reallydisappointed that it does still
happen and you have to pointthese sorts of things out.
Why should?
Why should we listen to theradio of last week without sort
of relitigating what occurred inMelbourne with Marty Sheargold.
Why would that joke have eventhought to be acceptable?
Like how boring and howdisappointing.
(11:12):
But again, it sort of helps.
It helps you know, for me againjust that increasing level of
confidence that our voices areincredibly important.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I think so, and I think you're right about the age
.
You do get to a stage whereyou're just a little bit more
frank, yeah, a little bit moresure of yourself.
So, when we look back at someof the younger people who are in
our teams, how do we work tofoster that?
How do we help our young menand women Because it is not just
(11:46):
the women who need to speak upagainst some of those things
that perhaps need to change.
Anybody got any thoughts onwhat we can do to help the young
people in our team step up tothat purpose Thoughts.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I think Sarah touched a really good point.
It's about speak up.
So it comes from yourindividual action.
So I'm always encouragingeverybody and saying to them
even if you're just the new onein, it doesn't make you less
important, because someone hasbeen here for 10 years and has
10 years experience.
Your input, your values isactually something that it can
(12:14):
make us grow.
So I'm really, really want tohear what you can bring to the
table so that individual actionand speak up.
It's a really powerful toolit's lovely, nazi.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I love your business model.
I love the fact that you'veused economics.
You know, to make change.
I think it's the you know thedesire to be an economist in me.
I'm a failed economist, nazia.
You're working with vulnerablecommunities, but you're also
working often with thoseorganisations who are driving
change for vulnerable people.
What do you bring to thoseconversations about helping
(12:46):
people to speak up?
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Honestly, I think you know so many organisations are
doing such a wonderful job atpreparing the next generation.
So, for example, I'm doing somework with Vinnie's, Canberra,
goldburn at the moment and theyhave a program which is all
about teaching young people inschools about social justice,
and it starts with awareness ofsocial justice issues.
(13:10):
I find that young people arereally really passionate about
the world around them andpurpose, so when they understand
the reasoning behind something,they kind of go for it.
So I was so impressed with thisprogram and we get to do all
the fun things, which is come inand see how it's going and
measuring the impact of it.
I have to add, while we'retalking about young people, so
(13:32):
I'm a Bangladeshi Australian andlast year in Bangladesh,
students overthrew a fascistgovernment of 15 years.
So I just find that amazingthat these young people were
willing to give up their livesfor a purpose and now they've
established their own party andthe country is currently being
(13:54):
led by Professor Mohamed Younis,who happens to be my idol.
He's the reason why I became aneconomist.
So it's really reallyincredible to see.
It's really really incredibleto see and I hope that you know,
wherever we go, we'reencouraging young people to
speak up, because it's a really.
There's a lot going on in theworld right now and everyone
(14:14):
needs to have a voice and dowhat they can.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
How wonderful We've gone from the Canberra-centric
to the national.
Thanks, sarah, for taking usthere.
To the international.
Thank you, nazia.
And it's one of those thingsthat International Women's Day
is really inspiring.
There are so many events.
I'm involved in three differentevents on Thursday and I know
there's more on Friday and theweekend.
It's so wonderful to see thatplatform be raised across so
(14:39):
many different communities.
One of the things that I'minterested in we talked about
giving young people voices andmoving that conversation forward
.
I'd be interested to turn yourattention to the future.
What would you like to seehappen next?
So perhaps it's tomorrow, nextyear, later on in your life.
(14:59):
What bold action do you thinkyou might take or that you'd
like to see happen that mightshift that progress?
Shift the dial a little bit togo one step further in terms of
progress for women in genderequality?
Rafi, start with you.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I think it's time that we start to stop looking at
it as an experience.
So, as Nazia was saying, it'sgood to look about the
innovation.
It's look about, you know, whatwe can bring into that
particular industry.
So you might be there for along time and we're very
grateful for everything that wedid as women in business for so
long.
But it's time for the newgeneration to be heard.
(15:36):
It's time for them to step up.
It's not good always to pointthe finger and say, oh, they
don't want to really do nothingor they don't have the
experience, and saying, oh, theydon't want to really do nothing
or they don't have theexperience.
But if we don't give the chanceto embrace the cultural change,
how we can actually have abetter collaboration between the
old and the new generation?
So, you know, let's step asideand give the chance to them to
(15:58):
have a voice and take action.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, do it their way , instead of, perhaps, with our
overlay of how we think itshould be done or how perhaps we
approach to that.
What about you, sarah?
Is it going to be somethingdifferent than perseverance?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Oh, I do think there'll be a good dose of
perseverance in there,unfortunately.
I would love to see businessowners just take a whole range
of really practical steps.
So, for instance, createenvironments where there can be
actual diversity of sittingaround a table.
But it takes active management,it can't just be I hope that
(16:33):
this will happen.
It takes active thought anddesign to make sure that
different sorts of rooms andtables, so to speak, have
diversity of thought around them.
In the context of InternationalWomen's Day, I think we've all
got to, and business owners havegot to, work even harder at
making sure that there aresufficient number of seats for
women at that table.
Pay your women more, go throughprocesses and again really
(16:57):
thoroughly go through the dataand why we still have a gender
pay gap.
Actively work in yourbusinesses to even in fact, pay
your women more than what youthought they might have, because
they're probably bringing withthem a whole range of systemic
underpayment in the context oftheir roles, comparatively.
So I think there's a range ofthings.
(17:19):
And, of course, createenvironments for, again, all
sorts of diversity.
But in the context ofInternational Women's Day, women
to have their voices.
It's incredibly important andthat includes women absolutely.
As Rafi has said, our youngergeneration of women have got
fantastic ideas to contribute tothe future, so it's our
responsibility to create thosetypes of opportunities.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
And it won't change by accident.
No, I look back on my careerbefore.
People often ask me how I wasbrave enough to step into my own
business and wanting to dosomething different, and I
actually think that I made aprobably subconscious choice at
that time to step out of theglass ceiling and take my own
way.
I was only 25 when I startedthis business and I just went.
(18:02):
I want to do somethingdifferent and step out of that
and I look at my mid-20schildren now and go please don't
have that same need to feellike you need to step out.
So I think that's really wise,sarah, that business need to
take action so that we don't endup with the same perseverance
required, the same conversationsthat we had 30 years ago when
(18:24):
we were starting out.
Nazia, what, what would youlike to see change?
What do you think the nextthing is?
Speaker 4 (18:29):
You know, I think that generally as women, young
women, or our age or we're stillyoung, of course.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Very, very young, all of us.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
I think I want to go sort of grassroots.
I think, women, we still havean issue with our self-worth and
that stops us from doing allsorts of grassroots.
I think, women, we still havean issue with our self-worth and
that stops us from doing allsorts of things, and I think
there needs to be real educationat various levels, starting in
school, for women to reallyunderstand their self-worth, and
that will make a lot ofdifference in lots of different
(19:00):
places.
The second thing, I think, isaround this culture of fear of
failure, right.
So recently I was invited bythe US government on this
program for women inentrepreneurship, so I got to
travel the US and understandmore about women enterprises,
and one thing that really struckme, that was amazing in their
culture, is that there is nofear of failure, right.
(19:23):
And I think, as Aussies, westill have a little bit of a bit
of you know, uh, a long way togo in that space actually,
because I think, um, I don'tbelieve there's any such thing
as failure.
It's always a learning, and Ithink when women start
understanding that, becausethere's already imposter
syndrome, there's a lack ofself-worth, and then, on top of
(19:45):
that, you know, wouldn't it begreat if we all walked around
going well, it's okay if we fail, it's okay if we make mistakes
and if we're in like a kind andbeautiful society, people will
forgive you.
I mean, I made a huge mistakethis morning and the thing is
that I've learned from it andthe people around me are
(20:05):
wonderful and we found adifferent solution.
So I hope to see that, I hopeto see women of all colors and
races and backgrounds andwhatever just be like.
Yes, I am amazing.
I am definitely at least asgood as the you know, the equal
man next to me, if not better.
Because it shouldn't be aboutgender and I think I'd love it
(20:28):
that.
You know, in the next few yearswe don't have to have these
discussions around.
You know gender, pay gapparodies and things like that,
like it should just be.
You know every person.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Absolutely.
I mean, it's a well-known fact,or a myth at least, that we're
told.
Um, any business course you goon, any of those entrepreneurial
type courses they talk about,you only become a really strong,
robust business if you failed acouple of times.
You know they actually talkabout it like a badge of honor.
Um, failing in business isactually where you and people
(21:03):
who have been venturecapitalists always say yeah,
yeah.
Well, I got to where I ambecause I failed a couple of
times and that's how I learnt.
And I think that, nazia, you'reentirely right.
If we could, as a community,embrace that so that the fear of
failure isn't isn't thepreeminent view, it's more about
a badge of honour.
Well, I had a go at that, jeez,I learned some stuff.
(21:24):
I'm going to really make adifference to my next one, rafi,
that must be something that youcome across a lot in your
leadership and mentoring thatyou do all around the world.
What do you tell people whenthey've got that fear of failure
?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, look, it's very real, and I think we're
actually self-sabotagingourselves, probably 99% of the
case.
But one of the tools andstrategies that I'm always
saying to people is find yourtribe, find your sponsors, your
mentors.
They are extremely important.
We've been in business for along time.
We can be extraordinary mentorsfor somebody else.
(21:58):
Tell them what we fail, thechallenges that we actually face
, and how they can actuallylearn from that and maybe build
something even better than whatwe fail, the challenges that we
actually face and how they canactually learn from that and
maybe build something evenbetter than what we did.
It's all about legacy, it's allabout progress.
So we did a little bit of Puff.
Now it's up to them to justprolong that.
But mentorship and sponsorshipis actually something really
(22:19):
wonderful for women.
So I'm always saying that thebrotherhood is really real.
It doesn't matter how long theyknow each other.
They support each other, theystick for each other.
When it comes down to female,it's still a little bit weak.
We're still not really therefor one another and I think we
need to improve in that as women, to stick for each other and
just support us.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Absolutely, we were talking about that before we
started, yeah I was just goingto jump in there, raffy, it's
really interesting.
I, I must be honest, I find suchgreat strength, um from my
women, friends and my.
I've got four sisters andthey're strong, amazing,
fantastic women and I would sayall of the women in my life us
(23:03):
as to other men, but in thecontext of the support that we
provide and, in fact, actuallythe failures that each and every
one of us go through and be itin the context of business or
life and a whole there's there'sa lot of different
opportunities to make lots ofreally big mistakes, but I have
to say that the um, the supportand strength that I feel, that
(23:25):
my group of women in my life,that we all give each other,
just gives me such a hugestrength to go on because they
believe and see in me the thingsthat I don't necessarily, and
vice versa, I see in them andcan talk until the cows come
home about how amazing they areand I do think that in fact,
actually it's incrediblyimportant.
(23:45):
So I acknowledge that's just myown circumstance and something
I'm incredibly grateful for.
But I really encourage both mychildren, but particularly my
daughter, to make sure thatshe's I suppose it's finding
your tribe, as you've described,but finding that group of
people but in many times it willbe girlfriends or your female
(24:08):
friends that will again be thathuge sort of backbone to all of
the things we want to go and doin life because we are so
sensational.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Absolutely yeah, and in Canberra, as we started,
before we turned the microphoneson, we were all just talking,
and Canberra is really a smallplace.
We were able to makeconnections.
We knew kids who played sporttogether and all those sorts of
things, and so it is out therefor grasping.
You can reach out and grab andbuild that network for yourself
(24:35):
and, of course, the CanberraBusiness Chamber is one of those
networks.
It was nice of Greg to handover his podcast room to a bunch
of businesswomen, but there aremore women like us amongst the
membership of the CanberraBusiness Chamber, so we do
encourage us to all bondtogether to get to know each
other.
I've got a bit of concludingcomments to make, but before I
(24:56):
do, thank you to my wonderfulpanel members.
We've just had the mostwonderful chat We've had Rafi
Segroy from Khan MechanicalServices and from HerZest and
SageAdvice so many differentnetworks that she's part of.
Sarah Bailey, who's at Pentenwith an amazing array of
(25:18):
security, defence software,fancy stuff that we should, in
Canberra, be so proud of thatpeople are producing.
And, of course, nazia Ahmedfrom Social Outcomes Lab what do
you call?
Speaker 4 (25:28):
it.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Solab wonderful nickname, but a grassroots
business making a difference.
So I'm Helen from CommunicationLink, and this podcast has been
brought to you by the CanberraBusiness Chamber with the
support of Care Super, anindustry super fund with
competitive fees and returns,exceptional service and a focus
on real care.
So I've been joined today bySarah Bailey, rafi Scroy and
(25:50):
Nazia Ahmed.
Don't forget to follow us, theCanberra Business Chamber, on
your favourite podcast platformto stay up to date with the
latest editions of CanberraBusiness Podcast.
Thank you.
Good morning, Hi.
I'm Helen Lair, ManagingDirector of Communication Link,
and I'm your special guest hostof this International Women's
Day edition of the CanberraBusiness Podcast from the home
of the Canberra Business Chamber.
Greg Harford, CEO of theCanberra Business Chamber and
your usual podcast host, hasvacated the studio and left us
(00:32):
with his trusty microphone.
We'll see how we go.
In the week of InternationalWomen's Day, there's been a bevy
of events that celebrate thesuccess of women and remind us
of the work still to be done.
We have invited three trulyinspiring Canberra businesswomen
to join us and share theirstories.
I'm so looking forward tospending some time with them,
(00:54):
learning a little bit abouttheir business journey, sharing
our experiences and perhapsbeing inspired to do something
different.
So I'm going to introduce eachof them, one after the other.
Raffi Scroi, diversity andinclusion advocate, built on the
foundations of an outstanding,successful career that includes
co-founding a multi-milliondollar automotive service
(01:16):
business car mechanical services, running her own consultancy
business for the past 13 years.
Sage Advice Welcome, Raffi.
Thanks for coming Lovely to behere.
And secondly, we have SarahBailey, CFO and Director at
Penten, a world-leading securemobility applied AI and tactical
communication security solutionproviders.
(01:38):
Wow, Truly professional.
An advisory board member at theUniversity of Canberra, an
esteemed career in professionaland business consulting,
including time at Ernst YoungWelcome.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
And finally, Nazia Ahmed is an economist and is the
CEO and founder of the SocialOutcomes Lab, which has been
running for almost 10 years,providing improved life outcomes
for vulnerable people throughthe application of economics,
analytics and action planning.
Follows a professional careerwith PwC and New South Wales
government.
(02:10):
Welcome, Nazia.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Hi, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Oh, it's wonderful.
What a great bunch of women.
So UN Women Australia's themefor International Women's Day
2025 is March Forward,commemorating 30 years since the
UN's Beijing Declaration andPlatform for Action for
Achieving Gender Equality 30years.
I think most of us were in theearly stages of our business
(02:36):
career 30 years ago.
The CEO of UN Women Australiastated our 2025 events will
serve as a powerful platform toamplify voices, share insights
and mobilise action.
Simone Clark said we invite allAustralians to join us in this
crucial conversation and marchforward towards a more equitable
(02:57):
world.
So here we are, a conversationin Canberra about businesswomen
Perfect.
So I thought I'd start with aquestion to all of our panel
members as successfulbusinesswomen, I'm sure you've
had to march through, as ourtheme suggests, some challenges
along the way.
Tell us a little bit about yourbusiness journey and a time or
(03:18):
pivotal moment when you feellike you took a big step forward
.
What barrier did you overcome?
What did you march through,raffy?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
let's start with you uh well, I love that march
through, so definitely was a bigmarch.
Um, as we know, when you'rethinking about automotive
business, it's always like aboutmen's fixing cars, but I'm
always saying that it's muchmore about that.
So, for me, it was only tocreate that different culture
(03:46):
where, you know, we're includingwomen into the equation and so
my role is completely differentfrom fixing cars, but it's a
very important role.
So it was about communicatingwith customers, creating that
loyalty base and pursue apurpose which is, for us, was
actually including more femaleinto the industry and creating
(04:06):
that sort of skill and inclusionprogram.
So I think we succeeded in that.
Obviously, as many things muchwork to be done still, but yeah,
we're pretty pleased with theresults.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Marching through right on the ground, bringing
women into a non-traditionalbackground, into a skill that
perhaps we haven't thought ofbefore.
Yeah, wonderful Rafi Sarah.
What about you?
Background into a, into a skillthat perhaps we haven't thought
of before.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
yeah, wonderful raffy sarah, what about you?
I'd love to say that there wasone particular moment or pivotal
time where I felt like I took agreat big step forward.
But to be honest with you, um,I think there's been a whole
range of just moments that haverequired perseverance and
resiliency over that entire 30years.
(04:45):
So 30 years ago was actually in, obviously 1995, and I finished
school back then.
I have a 30 year reunion comingup and at the time I left
school thinking I can go and doand be anything I want, and at a
whole range of moments over thelast 30 years, it's just not as
(05:05):
straightforward as that,particularly being a woman, and
there's a range of differentcircumstances where you're not
either invited into the room orsomeone has a different
perspective around what theyexpect you to want or desire in
the context of career and life,life, and so for me, I would say
that my big step forward wasactually a combination of many,
(05:35):
many little moments where I justdidn't give up and I just
didn't accept the way things orthe way other people wanted
things.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
For me, perseverance with a capital P, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Nazia, what about your story?
How did you get where you are?
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Yeah, I think I always knew that I wanted to do
my own thing and I wanted tomake a difference in the world
in some way or shape.
And I think starting the SocialOutcomes Lab was a really big
deal for me, because I come froma family of professionals and
so there's no one else who's runa business in my family and so,
(06:07):
you know, having a seniorgovernment position, you know
that kind of stability, and thenstarting Solab it's called
Solab for short it was a reallybig deal and I think you know, I
mean there are so many barriers, like, firstly, being a woman
and then various otherintersectionalities of culture,
religion and whatever else.
(06:27):
But I think you know the biggestbarrier sometimes is just
within myself.
And so I think, getting intothat mindset of no, I can be
successful and I'm just willingto give it a go, and I think
that's how I started.
So I'm not expecting it to be,you know, running for however
long or whatever, but just thatI'm going to give it a go.
It's something I really Solab.
Not expecting it to be, youknow, running for however long
or whatever, but just that I'mgoing to give it a go.
It's something I really want todo it's something I'm really
(06:49):
passionate about and just keepgoing over.
You know every hurdle.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yes, so much of that.
I mean, the theme across all ofthose three stories is about
that inner drive.
Yeah, the inner drive to be thefirst to establish a business
in your family, to take allthose perseverance moments and
progress each one towards anoutcome.
And then for you, rafi, you'vehad to create a whole culture.
You've stepped into a placethat you probably thought you
(07:17):
were going to just be managingthe books yeah, that's often
what happens in a familybusiness, isn't it?
And then you've gone.
No, we can be something sogreat.
How did you get that internaldrive to do that, rafi?
What did you pull on to makethat happen?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Well, I'm always saying that you know you need a
great team behind.
You can just, like you know,think of the big change, or you
can think about including morefemale in the industry.
But I've got to give like a bigyou know merit to my husband as
well.
That has a man been in theindustry for 45 years now.
He actually embraced thatchange, he trusted my vision and
(07:50):
he actually support that.
So, and I think when you'recreating that big sort of you
know trust in your team isactually make things come a
little bit easier.
And I agree with Sarah, it'sall about that imposter syndrome
.
Sometime, you know, you need tojust put in your big pants on
and say, like you know what Ideserve to be here and I
(08:10):
actually have something to givethat he needs to be heard.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
Was there somebody, Nazia, whoparticularly gave you that
strength to go?
Rafi talked about her husband,but is there somebody who really
pushed you out of the nest?
Speaker 4 (08:29):
You know what?
I have to give a lot of creditto my ex-bosses one at New South
Wales Government and previouslyat PwC as well, and I think
they just believed in me so much.
For example, at PwC, I got todo the most incredible projects
that were way beyond my gradefor example, with this you know
this immense support.
And then also at New SouthWales government, my ex-boss she
(08:49):
was such a pioneer in the spaceand she was, you know, she
always offered so much supportand encouragement.
So I think people like thatacross my journey kind of really
helped me.
And then when I started,whenever I needed some help when
even, you know, 10 years on, Icalled my ex-boss at PwC when I
was having like a challenge witha client, how do I, how do I
(09:11):
overcome this?
So you know it's.
I think the mentors have beenreally, really wonderful.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
It's such an important thing having mentors
and people you can call on, butit also requires a bit of inner
gumph.
I reckon I've been in mybusiness for almost 30 years, so
just not not much different tothe time we've just been talking
about, and I think I look back.
There's a few items of peoplewho have stepped in and made a
difference, but I'm a bit likeyou, sarah.
(09:37):
That perseverance then.
Oh well, I'm just going to giveit a go.
What do you think?
Sometimes some of that is aboutnot being afraid to fail.
Was that?
Did that impact you, sarah?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
A little bit.
I think I'm finding I'm notafraid to raise my voice and I
don't know if that comes withage and experience, but I'm
finding increasingly so.
I just will point out thethings that, honestly, are just
either not acceptable or headingin a direction, that are that
(10:08):
could become unacceptable.
I think I've probably alwaysdone that, to be honest.
I'm sure my parents would say Idid that quite a lot as a child
.
But even through the earlystages of my career there are
definitely points at which I'vejust always sort of used my
voice and I think sometimes thentoo, when you raise your voice
(10:30):
and point out a topic and othersgo yeah, that's a really
important point you've made.
That can absolutely be with.
You know, you can do so in arespectful way.
That for me provides a greaterlevel of confidence that
actually that is important andright, to keep respectfully
pointing out the things that arenot acceptable, and I do think
that that happens.
(10:51):
I mean, it certainly stillhappens today.
Sometimes I get reallydisappointed that it does still
happen and you have to pointthese sorts of things out.
Why should?
Why should we listen to theradio of last week without sort
of relitigating what occurred inMelbourne with Marty Sheargold.
Why would that joke have eventhought to be acceptable?
Like how boring and howdisappointing.
(11:12):
But again, it sort of helps.
It helps you know, for me againjust that increasing level of
confidence that our voices areincredibly important.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I think so, and I think you're right about the age
.
You do get to a stage whereyou're just a little bit more
frank, yeah, a little bit moresure of yourself.
So, when we look back at someof the younger people who are in
our teams, how do we work tofoster that?
How do we help our young menand women Because it is not just
(11:46):
the women who need to speak upagainst some of those things
that perhaps need to change.
Anybody got any thoughts onwhat we can do to help the young
people in our team step up tothat purpose Thoughts.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I think Sarah touched a really good point.
It's about speak up.
So it comes from yourindividual action.
So I'm always encouragingeverybody and saying to them
even if you're just the new onein, it doesn't make you less
important, because someone hasbeen here for 10 years and has
10 years experience.
Your input, your values isactually something that it can
(12:14):
make us grow.
So I'm really, really want tohear what you can bring to the
table so that individual actionand speak up.
It's a really powerful toolit's lovely, nazi.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I love your business model.
I love the fact that you'veused economics.
You know, to make change.
I think it's the you know thedesire to be an economist in me.
I'm a failed economist, nazia.
You're working with vulnerablecommunities, but you're also
working often with thoseorganisations who are driving
change for vulnerable people.
What do you bring to thoseconversations about helping
(12:46):
people to speak up?
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Honestly, I think you know so many organisations are
doing such a wonderful job atpreparing the next generation.
So, for example, I'm doing somework with Vinnie's, Canberra,
goldburn at the moment and theyhave a program which is all
about teaching young people inschools about social justice,
and it starts with awareness ofsocial justice issues.
(13:10):
I find that young people arereally really passionate about
the world around them andpurpose, so when they understand
the reasoning behind something,they kind of go for it.
So I was so impressed with thisprogram and we get to do all
the fun things, which is come inand see how it's going and
measuring the impact of it.
I have to add, while we'retalking about young people, so
(13:32):
I'm a Bangladeshi Australian andlast year in Bangladesh,
students overthrew a fascistgovernment of 15 years.
So I just find that amazingthat these young people were
willing to give up their livesfor a purpose and now they've
established their own party andthe country is currently being
(13:54):
led by Professor Mohamed Younis,who happens to be my idol.
He's the reason why I became aneconomist.
So it's really reallyincredible to see.
It's really really incredibleto see and I hope that you know,
wherever we go, we'reencouraging young people to
speak up, because it's a really.
There's a lot going on in theworld right now and everyone
(14:14):
needs to have a voice and dowhat they can.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
How wonderful We've gone from the Canberra-centric
to the national.
Thanks, sarah, for taking usthere.
To the international.
Thank you, nazia.
And it's one of those thingsthat International Women's Day
is really inspiring.
There are so many events.
I'm involved in three differentevents on Thursday and I know
there's more on Friday and theweekend.
It's so wonderful to see thatplatform be raised across so
(14:39):
many different communities.
One of the things that I'minterested in we talked about
giving young people voices andmoving that conversation forward
.
I'd be interested to turn yourattention to the future.
What would you like to seehappen next?
So perhaps it's tomorrow, nextyear, later on in your life.
(14:59):
What bold action do you thinkyou might take or that you'd
like to see happen that mightshift that progress?
Shift the dial a little bit togo one step further in terms of
progress for women in genderequality?
Rafi, start with you.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I think it's time that we start to stop looking at
it as an experience.
So, as Nazia was saying, it'sgood to look about the
innovation.
It's look about, you know, whatwe can bring into that
particular industry.
So you might be there for along time and we're very
grateful for everything that wedid as women in business for so
long.
But it's time for the newgeneration to be heard.
(15:36):
It's time for them to step up.
It's not good always to pointthe finger and say, oh, they
don't want to really do nothingor they don't have the
experience, and saying, oh, theydon't want to really do nothing
or they don't have theexperience.
But if we don't give the chanceto embrace the cultural change,
how we can actually have abetter collaboration between the
old and the new generation?
So, you know, let's step asideand give the chance to them to
(15:58):
have a voice and take action.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, do it their way , instead of, perhaps, with our
overlay of how we think itshould be done or how perhaps we
approach to that.
What about you, sarah?
Is it going to be somethingdifferent than perseverance?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Oh, I do think there'll be a good dose of
perseverance in there,unfortunately.
I would love to see businessowners just take a whole range
of really practical steps.
So, for instance, createenvironments where there can be
actual diversity of sittingaround a table.
But it takes active management,it can't just be I hope that
(16:33):
this will happen.
It takes active thought anddesign to make sure that
different sorts of rooms andtables, so to speak, have
diversity of thought around them.
In the context of InternationalWomen's Day, I think we've all
got to, and business owners havegot to, work even harder at
making sure that there aresufficient number of seats for
women at that table.
Pay your women more, go throughprocesses and again really
(16:57):
thoroughly go through the dataand why we still have a gender
pay gap.
Actively work in yourbusinesses to even in fact, pay
your women more than what youthought they might have, because
they're probably bringing withthem a whole range of systemic
underpayment in the context oftheir roles, comparatively.
So I think there's a range ofthings.
(17:19):
And, of course, createenvironments for, again, all
sorts of diversity.
But in the context ofInternational Women's Day, women
to have their voices.
It's incredibly important andthat includes women absolutely.
As Rafi has said, our youngergeneration of women have got
fantastic ideas to contribute tothe future, so it's our
responsibility to create thosetypes of opportunities.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
And it won't change by accident.
No, I look back on my careerbefore.
People often ask me how I wasbrave enough to step into my own
business and wanting to dosomething different, and I
actually think that I made aprobably subconscious choice at
that time to step out of theglass ceiling and take my own
way.
I was only 25 when I startedthis business and I just went.
(18:02):
I want to do somethingdifferent and step out of that
and I look at my mid-20schildren now and go please don't
have that same need to feellike you need to step out.
So I think that's really wise,sarah, that business need to
take action so that we don't endup with the same perseverance
required, the same conversationsthat we had 30 years ago when
(18:24):
we were starting out.
Nazia, what, what would youlike to see change?
What do you think the nextthing is?
Speaker 4 (18:29):
You know, I think that generally as women, young
women, or our age or we're stillyoung, of course.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Very, very young, all of us.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
I think I want to go sort of grassroots.
I think, women, we still havean issue with our self-worth and
that stops us from doing allsorts of grassroots.
I think, women, we still havean issue with our self-worth and
that stops us from doing allsorts of things, and I think
there needs to be real educationat various levels, starting in
school, for women to reallyunderstand their self-worth, and
that will make a lot ofdifference in lots of different
(19:00):
places.
The second thing, I think, isaround this culture of fear of
failure, right.
So recently I was invited bythe US government on this
program for women inentrepreneurship, so I got to
travel the US and understandmore about women enterprises,
and one thing that really struckme, that was amazing in their
culture, is that there is nofear of failure, right.
(19:23):
And I think, as Aussies, westill have a little bit of a bit
of you know, uh, a long way togo in that space actually,
because I think, um, I don'tbelieve there's any such thing
as failure.
It's always a learning, and Ithink when women start
understanding that, becausethere's already imposter
syndrome, there's a lack ofself-worth, and then, on top of
(19:45):
that, you know, wouldn't it begreat if we all walked around
going well, it's okay if we fail, it's okay if we make mistakes
and if we're in like a kind andbeautiful society, people will
forgive you.
I mean, I made a huge mistakethis morning and the thing is
that I've learned from it andthe people around me are
(20:05):
wonderful and we found adifferent solution.
So I hope to see that, I hopeto see women of all colors and
races and backgrounds andwhatever just be like.
Yes, I am amazing.
I am definitely at least asgood as the you know, the equal
man next to me, if not better.
Because it shouldn't be aboutgender and I think I'd love it
(20:28):
that.
You know, in the next few yearswe don't have to have these
discussions around.
You know gender, pay gapparodies and things like that,
like it should just be.
You know every person.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Absolutely.
I mean, it's a well-known fact,or a myth at least, that we're
told.
Um, any business course you goon, any of those entrepreneurial
type courses they talk about,you only become a really strong,
robust business if you failed acouple of times.
You know they actually talkabout it like a badge of honor.
Um, failing in business isactually where you and people
(21:03):
who have been venturecapitalists always say yeah,
yeah.
Well, I got to where I ambecause I failed a couple of
times and that's how I learnt.
And I think that, nazia, you'reentirely right.
If we could, as a community,embrace that so that the fear of
failure isn't isn't thepreeminent view, it's more about
a badge of honour.
Well, I had a go at that, jeez,I learned some stuff.
(21:24):
I'm going to really make adifference to my next one, rafi,
that must be something that youcome across a lot in your
leadership and mentoring thatyou do all around the world.
What do you tell people whenthey've got that fear of failure
?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, look, it's very real, and I think we're
actually self-sabotagingourselves, probably 99% of the
case.
But one of the tools andstrategies that I'm always
saying to people is find yourtribe, find your sponsors, your
mentors.
They are extremely important.
We've been in business for along time.
We can be extraordinary mentorsfor somebody else.
(21:58):
Tell them what we fail, thechallenges that we actually face
, and how they can actuallylearn from that and maybe build
something even better than whatwe fail, the challenges that we
actually face and how they canactually learn from that and
maybe build something evenbetter than what we did.
It's all about legacy, it's allabout progress.
So we did a little bit of Puff.
Now it's up to them to justprolong that.
But mentorship and sponsorshipis actually something really
(22:19):
wonderful for women.
So I'm always saying that thebrotherhood is really real.
It doesn't matter how long theyknow each other.
They support each other, theystick for each other.
When it comes down to female,it's still a little bit weak.
We're still not really therefor one another and I think we
need to improve in that as women, to stick for each other and
just support us.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Absolutely, we were talking about that before we
started, yeah I was just goingto jump in there, raffy, it's
really interesting.
I, I must be honest, I find suchgreat strength, um from my
women, friends and my.
I've got four sisters andthey're strong, amazing,
fantastic women and I would sayall of the women in my life us
(23:03):
as to other men, but in thecontext of the support that we
provide and, in fact, actuallythe failures that each and every
one of us go through and be itin the context of business or
life and a whole there's there'sa lot of different
opportunities to make lots ofreally big mistakes, but I have
to say that the um, the supportand strength that I feel, that
(23:25):
my group of women in my life,that we all give each other,
just gives me such a hugestrength to go on because they
believe and see in me the thingsthat I don't necessarily, and
vice versa, I see in them andcan talk until the cows come
home about how amazing they areand I do think that in fact,
actually it's incrediblyimportant.
(23:45):
So I acknowledge that's just myown circumstance and something
I'm incredibly grateful for.
But I really encourage both mychildren, but particularly my
daughter, to make sure thatshe's I suppose it's finding
your tribe, as you've described,but finding that group of
people but in many times it willbe girlfriends or your female
(24:08):
friends that will again be thathuge sort of backbone to all of
the things we want to go and doin life because we are so
sensational.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Absolutely yeah, and in Canberra, as we started,
before we turned the microphoneson, we were all just talking,
and Canberra is really a smallplace.
We were able to makeconnections.
We knew kids who played sporttogether and all those sorts of
things, and so it is out therefor grasping.
You can reach out and grab andbuild that network for yourself
(24:35):
and, of course, the CanberraBusiness Chamber is one of those
networks.
It was nice of Greg to handover his podcast room to a bunch
of businesswomen, but there aremore women like us amongst the
membership of the CanberraBusiness Chamber, so we do
encourage us to all bondtogether to get to know each
other.
I've got a bit of concludingcomments to make, but before I
(24:56):
do, thank you to my wonderfulpanel members.
We've just had the mostwonderful chat We've had Rafi
Segroy from Khan MechanicalServices and from HerZest and
SageAdvice so many differentnetworks that she's part of.
Sarah Bailey, who's at Pentenwith an amazing array of
(25:18):
security, defence software,fancy stuff that we should, in
Canberra, be so proud of thatpeople are producing.
And, of course, nazia Ahmedfrom Social Outcomes Lab what do
you call?
Speaker 4 (25:28):
it.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Solab wonderful nickname, but a grassroots
business making a difference.
So I'm Helen from CommunicationLink, and this podcast has been
brought to you by the CanberraBusiness Chamber with the
support of Care Super, anindustry super fund with
competitive fees and returns,exceptional service and a focus
on real care.
So I've been joined today bySarah Bailey, rafi Scroy and
(25:50):
Nazia Ahmed.
Don't forget to follow us, theCanberra Business Chamber, on
your favourite podcast platformto stay up to date with the
latest editions of CanberraBusiness Podcast.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.