September 29, 2025 • 33 mins
What does it take to build a globally competitive content company from Canberra? Michael Tear, CEO of Wildbear Entertainment, reveals the extraordinary journey from two university students with a dream to a 180-person powerhouse creating documentaries for Netflix, Disney, BBC and beyond.
The path wasn't straightforward. Starting with virtually no industry connections, Michael and co-founder Serge faced years of struggle before gaining traction. Their persistence eventually paid off, particularly after a 2014 merger that transformed their local production house into an international content creator. "It wasn't one plus one equals two," Michael explains, "it was one plus one equals ten."
The digital revolution has completely transformed how Wildbear operates. From analog beginnings to today's AI concerns, Michael shares how they've adapted by reinventing their business model every few years while preserving what matters most: storytelling craft. "Even though technology changes, the fundamental elements of making a film remain the same," he notes.
Current productions showcase their range - from documenting the War Memorial redevelopment to creating a feature on controversial former Queensland Premier Joe Bjelke-Petersen for Stan. Michael's leadership philosophy centers on alignment and talent: "Hire the smartest person and pay them as much as you possibly can - they'll add value way beyond what you imagine."
Ready to discover how persistence, adaptation and people-first leadership built one of Australia's most successful documentary companies? This conversation offers invaluable insights for creative entrepreneurs navigating today's rapidly evolving media landscape.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast.
I'm Greg Harford, your host fromthe Canberra Business Chamber,
and today I'm joined by MichaelTier, the CEO of Wildbear
Entertainment.
Michael, welcome to the podcast.
Great to have you here.
For the uninitiated, um, who isWildbear Entertainment and what
do you do?
SPEAKER_00 (00:37):
Wildbear is a film and television company or a
content company we like to referto ourselves.
So we work primarily indocumentary and factual
television, um, but we also dowork in corporate and uh
corporate communication.
Uh we're a sort of end-to-endbusiness.
(00:59):
So we come up with concepts, wefinance films, we make films, we
deliver them, and then weexploit them through our
distribution business.
So we're I guess we're we'rebroadly diversified.
Um, and we operate our main ourheadquarters is in Canberra, but
we've got subs offices in Sydneyand Brisbane, um, Melbourne, and
(01:22):
Dunedin in New Zealand.
SPEAKER_01 (01:24):
Yeah.
So so you're an internationalcompany, in fact, uh, which is
which is awesome, but you'relocally owned?
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
Locally owned.
Uh I'm uh there's there's fourshareholders.
We have an investor and Serge,who's my original business
partner from way back.
We founded the company, and Tinaas well.
She's uh from Sydney.
We merged in 2014.
Originally we were calledBearcage, we're a Canberra
production company, but in 2014we merged with a bigger
(01:52):
business, and uh that was thesort of start of our big growth
spurt, I suppose.
So, how did you get started inthe industry?
Well, Serge and I both uh met atuniversity at the University of
Canberra, and we were bothstudying media, and in those
days it was very difficult as itis now to get a break or get an
(02:12):
opportunity, and in our wisdom,we decided to set up our own
production company so that wecould employ ourselves.
Uh and it was a very it washard.
I mean, it was a very slowprocess, it took many years to
get our first few jobs throughthe door.
Um, but I guess we're an exampleof persistence pays off.
Uh you know, we started to getmore and more work, we started
(02:34):
to build a reputation, um, andthen you know, over time we
began our first, got our firstemployee and built the business
slowly.
Uh, but it was it was almost asif we we thought, you know, at
the beginning we met someone whogave us a bit of career advice
(02:56):
and he said, look, if you wantto be a producer and you want to
be a director, you sort of startyour career in that doing that
job.
But you know, you can I guessthere's other ways you can go,
you can work yourself throughthe system, you can begin at a
sort of an entry level.
So so we we adopted thatapproach, and that's how you
know we came to where we aretoday.
(03:16):
So um how how big's the businessnow?
SPEAKER_01 (03:19):
How many people do you employ?
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
Uh this month we've got 180.
Um so it goes up and downbecause of projects.
We've got a couple of largeproductions on, but the base
level of staff is 140.
Uh, and then we we scale up andscale down depending on what
work we've got on at the currenttime.
SPEAKER_01 (03:38):
So, I mean that's a reasonably sizable business for
Canberra, so well done onbuilding that.
But I guess um technology haschanged a lot over the time that
you've been running thebusiness, and um, we're
obviously in a world where umcontent is much more kind of
democratized.
Anyone with a phone effectivelycan film stuff.
(03:59):
Has that posed challenges foryou in in your business and
what's been the implication ofthat?
SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
Yeah, it's posed challenges and opportunities.
I mean, when Serge and I beganin the industry, everything was
analogue, it was all tape, itwas all physical media, uh, and
then now we're in an entirelydigital business from beginning
to end, and we make things inthe digital format, we deliver
them in uh films uh across theworld digitally.
(04:29):
Uh and also when we started,there were very few channels for
distribution.
Effectively, it was thefree-to-air networks in
Australia, so there were lessopportunities internationally,
much more locally focused.
So, in that sort of explosion ofcontent that's happened in my
career, there's definitely beena lot of opportunities created,
(04:50):
but we've also seen massiveshifts.
And you know, my view aboutbusiness is that you know, we've
we've sort of have to reinventthe business every three to five
years because just to kind ofadapt to the the environment and
to meet the expectations ofcustomers.
And you know, obviously, I thinkone of our competitors is not
(05:10):
just film and TV, but the thesort of attention economy, if
you like.
It's TikTok, it's um Facebook,it's you know, um Instagram.
So, you know, we've got a lot ofand gaming is obviously a thing
that's you know improved vastly.
But one thing that is alwaysparamount in our business and
(05:32):
has always been pre-eminent isis what we call story skills.
Can you tell a story?
Can you tell it in long form?
Can you, in the case of afeature documentary, make a film
with three defined acts withturning points and hooks that
leave audiences hanging?
Even though the technology'schanged, those fundamental
(05:54):
elements of making a film are asthey've always been.
And I'd like to think that inour industry we've embraced that
and we've we've kept core tothat mission, but we've all
added a lot of tools to ourpalette of the way we we make
things.
But we can't be complacent.
I mean, YouTube now is thebiggest streamer of film and
(06:17):
television in the world.
Uh it means that there's lots ofcompetition for um audience
eyeballs.
We we work throughintermediaries, through
platforms, so our clients andcustomers are uh the ABC or
Netflix or Disney or BBC.
(06:38):
And so we're you know, we'reworking with them, we're making
content that we hope is going toresonate with their audiences.
So it's as competitive as it'sever been, but it's also there's
never been more opportunity aswell.
SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
So, how does it work um supplying content to some of
those big networks andaggregators and streamers?
Are you are you coming up withthe idea and then going and
pitching it to them, or are theycoming to you and saying we want
you to make X?
SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
A bit of both.
Um sometimes if you've got if wehave a really good relationship
with a platform, they might cometo you and say, Look, we want
something on X and we need todevelop that idea up.
Other times we're coming up withan original idea, and then
invariably you've got a platformin mind when you when you
(07:24):
develop the concept and youthink this would be really work
really well for whoever.
And then it's up to us to enterto develop the idea, to present
it in a way that's compelling.
And and not only do you have tothink about the the idea, what
it is, you have to think abouthow much it's going to cost, how
(07:44):
long you can take to make it,um, and package all those
elements, so call it a package.
Uh, it might have a particulardirector attached, it might have
a particular access to aprecinct or some other, you
know, some IP, and and thenpackage that and present that.
(08:04):
And then it's sort of also ourjob to get that financed.
It was more common previouslythat you might have a buyer that
have a big checkbook and theycould write a check.
That's becoming less common.
Uh, you do need to spend a bitmore energy piecing the finance
together.
So that's quite a complicatedprocess as well.
Um, but that's I guess wherethat's what producing is.
(08:29):
It's thinking about okay, what'sa great idea, it's pulling the
team together, it's identifyingthe talent, it's thinking about
the money, it's thinking aboutthe audience, it's thinking
about what are the commercialopportunities, and it's that
whole kind of rounded packagethat we at Wildbear specialise.
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
And in terms of that financing, we've obviously
there's there's pools ofgovernment money available in
Australia and all over the worldto support film production.
Um, but how how easy is it tofind private sector funding to
support the work you do?
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
The private sector's funding's the most challenging.
I mean, there's two, I guessthere's two types.
There's the market funding, whatwe call market, and that will be
a buyer who's either got aplatform or a distributor who's
acquiring the license or therepresent the rights to to sell
that film in markets.
Private equity, privateinvestment uh is is difficult.
(09:25):
It's a high it is a high-riskbusiness, uh, and you've got to
have a pretty solid businessplan.
A lot of the time with a film,maybe the private equity is the
part of the money.
It might be that you can sort ofpackage it up so that the
investors get their money back abit earlier than some of the
other funding sources, includingthe producer.
(09:46):
So you can devise packages whereprivate equity is possible, but
it's uh I think one of thechallenges with film and TV and
when you're talking to privateinvestors is I think private
investors like the idea ofeither uh you know risk and
reward, maybe a high risk butpotential for massive reward.
(10:08):
A lot of the time you see infilm projects the that there are
you know there is upside, butit's not enormous.
So, you know, you were whenwe're talking to investors, they
might be involved in the projectbecause they're particularly
passionate about the content.
They might have great faith inthe creative team, they might
like to enjoy the experience,uh, they might we might be able
(10:29):
to put them in a position wherethe risk is lessened for them,
and we must also convince theother investors in the film that
that's a particularlyappropriate way to go.
Uh it's it's a very much anexperienced game.
Um you need, I think, a lot ofuh a strong track record.
You really have a need to have agreat depth of understanding of
(10:51):
the market, uh, and you need tobe able to communicate all of
those elements to your investorsand make sure that they're fully
aware of what they're gettinginvolved in.
Um I'm always suspicious or youknow, caution-y about like any
investment returns that seem toogood to be true, or very
inexperienced teams, or peoplewho haven't.
(11:13):
In the end, one of the otherimportant things about films is
you know, look at the market,what what sort of buyers are
involved, uh, because that'll bea good sign about the potential
of a project.
I mean, there's always a remote,you know, there's always great
stories about unknown projectsand unknown filmmakers who pull
something together and it hasincredible returns and rewards.
Uh, but it's a it's a rarestory.
(11:35):
It's like a lot of things, it'shard graphed, it's careful
management, uh, it's a reallywell-structured business plan,
and it's a great team that'sgoing to deliver on the
expectations of the project.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:46):
And how long does it take to pull one of these
projects together?
I mean, I guess it depends onthe size of the thing.
But I mean, um, you know, ifevery half hour of content that
you produce, what's what's theback-end time of that?
SPEAKER_00 (11:59):
Yeah, well, so the we estimate our hit rate is we'd
for every 10 ideas we develop,we'd probably get one financed.
Uh it it can, in certain genreswhere we've really got a lot of
expertise, you can get up to youknow 30% of the ideas that you
develop.
So, in terms of development, youknow, we like to say that uh no
(12:22):
ideas ever abandoned becauseit's stories have we've
developed five years ago,finally come to market and have
their day.
So it's a multi-year project.
Uh one of the keys to success ishaving a slate.
Like you need a multitude ofideas.
It's very difficult to take oneor two ideas into the market and
(12:42):
you know hope that you're goingto be successful.
It's like any kind of business,it's a numbers game.
You need to speak to ten buyersbefore you find one who's going
to commit the money.
So, and then in in developing aslate, what you're trying to do
is look at what you know what'sour strength, how do we kind of
position the brand, what whatdoes our company, what are we
(13:03):
known for?
Uh, how is is that in ourwheelhouse?
Because clearly it's a veryextremely competitive market.
Uh, and so ideas, it's not ait's not sort of like a it's not
a it's not like a lightningstrikes thing.
I think what we're trying to dois develop ideas that fit with
our wild bear brand that we'reknown for, but also have a
(13:25):
unique offering and are a littlebit different, and I guess offer
something new.
So, what's your favorite projectbeen over the years?
I mean, it it varies, uh uh, ofcourse.
Uh we we just did a um a filmwith Ned Brockman where he's the
(13:46):
crazy tradie who's a bit of asocial media phenomenon who ran
across Australia forhomelessness.
And Ned's he's an extraordinarycharacter, you know.
Like he is, you know, when wegot involved with the project, I
realised there's actually a lotof people that have run across
Australia or run from north tosouth.
But Ned is that's quiteastonishing to know in itself,
actually.
(14:07):
Exactly.
But there's something about Ned,he's just he's just such a
hearts-on-sleeve guy, and it's afilm that surge directed my
business partner, my founder.
And and anyway, it's just it'sit's it's so raw, it portrays
Ned Wattson all, but you justcan't help falling in love with
(14:29):
the guy.
But also, I look at him and Ithink, wow, you're an extreme
character.
You're you kind of carryyourself around every day, and
that's that's that's not easy.
So it's in that way, I thinkit's really insightful.
And I, you know, I really lovethat film, I think it's great.
But look, we just uh we werelucky enough to get secure a
(14:49):
commission with the ABC to makea dock that marked the 50th
anniversary of Papua New Guinea,and it was on TV just this week,
and um I had the great pleasureof just sitting at home with the
family and watching it, and I itI loved it, you know, and it's
it's it's got it's gotinformation that I didn't know,
it's got archive from the 70sthat looks astonishingly crisp
(15:12):
and clear as if it was shotyesterday, and it's a
fascinating part of our history,uh, and we you know deal with
difficult topics, and it wasjust a great watch.
So, you know, it's always apleasure.
One of the great things about myjob as the CEO is that I'm kind
of across everything, but notI'm wide, but not deep.
So I get to sit down at the endof it and look at a show, and
(15:34):
uh, you know, it's in alwaysrewarding, it's always
incredibly satisfying.
SPEAKER_01 (15:39):
Yeah.
And is most of your productdestined for Australia?
I know you sell some stuff intosome of the streamers, but um,
what's your global impact?
SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
No, we're 60% of our revenues from overseas.
Uh it's almost impossible, Ithink, to build a business in
Australia that entirely focuseson our domestic market.
Uh, you need it's a globalbusiness.
If you if if yeah, we're we'rewe're in documentary and
(16:07):
specialist factual, which are inan in a niche.
So it the Australian contentmarket's 3% of the world content
market.
And then within that, thespecialist factual, which is
what we do, it's probably about10%.
Now, if you think of that nichein Australia, it's it's minute.
But if you think about that on aglobal scale, that's it's
(16:29):
actually quite large.
So it if you like we want to do,we want to be one of the best
company in our niche.
And if you're in the globalgame, well then you've got that
opportunity.
And and one of the otherimportant things about our
business is scale and volume.
So you need a lot of content,you need to make things, you
(16:49):
know, you need to output a lotof TV.
We we we we release, deliverabout 130, 140, 150 hours of TV
a year, which is quite a lot,but that allows our teams to
build their skills, uh, itallows us to find out more about
audiences, it builds someeconomies of scale.
So creative people are contraryperhaps to the cliche, a lot of
(17:12):
them are extremely prolific.
They're they're not working onone masterpiece, they're working
on five or six at one time.
So uh to me, you know, you'vegot to have a worldview.
It's hard from Australia, we'rea long way away, it's expensive
to get to the markets and it'sbecome more expensive since
COVID.
It's really noticeable,noticeable how much more it
costs.
(17:33):
Um it's one of the again, as Ithink harking back to the
explosion of platforms, it'sit's one of the great
opportunities in our businessthat you can go overseas, you
can meet buyers, they knowyou're from Australia, and
they're prepared to listen toyour pitch and commission your
show if you're good enough.
(17:53):
And is that an advantage, do youthink, being Australian?
We have an amazing reputationinternationally.
Uh everyone, there's been workdone for 50 years.
Some of the producers and someof the creative teams have
battled.
So, you know, the cliche ofstanding on the shoulders of
giants is true.
(18:14):
And we're build we you know,we're we're constantly trying to
build on that reputation.
The brand Australia is a goodbrand.
Everyone loves the country theywant to visit.
Most people can't afford it ordon't have the time.
So uh yeah, I think we've got awe have got a great opportunity.
We've got a great system ofsupport here.
Um, we've got federal and statefunding.
(18:35):
Um and because we're so far fromthe main markets, the main, you
know, the North Atlantic market,the UK, Canada, US, Germany,
France, they're the big, the bigmajor territories, so we're a
long way from that space.
But I think we punch above ourweight given the relative size
of our country and the size ofour industry.
(18:56):
Yeah.
And how much of your productionis actually offshore as opposed
to being here?
It's all made here.
All done here.
Uh occasionally we'll have ashoot where we might shoot
something overseas, but um, it'sall made out of Australia,
Australian-made.
Uh and the but what we aremaking content for is the global
(19:18):
market.
So sometimes it's notnecessarily uh recognizably
Australian.
We might make a history show, wemight make a natural history
show that doesn't look like anAustralian film.
So that's one thing we we I saythat you know, like there's
there's there's global shows andthere's local shows, and often
(19:40):
if you've got the Venn diagramwhere they both kind of cross
over, it's actually quite rareand few.
Um but if you're mindful of whoyou're making your shows for.
I mean, we we make a lot ofhistory for European history,
and I I sometimes think, I mean,of not no foreign producer comes
to Australia and does anythingabout Australian history.
And I think that's a little bitabout the Australian
(20:01):
sensibility.
We can we're a little bit moreadaptable, we're a little bit
less strident, we're prepared tolisten, uh, we're prepared to
adapt different viewpoints, andI think that stands us in good
steed.
Fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (20:14):
Um so we touched a little bit earlier on technology
and the evolving kind of thingsthat have happened in the move
from analog to a fully digitalenvironment for for production.
Um, but AI is on everyone'slips.
Um what is what is the future ofyour industry with AI and how
are you embracing those tools?
SPEAKER_00 (20:34):
Yeah, look, I'd be unrealistic to say that it's not
causing concern.
Uh we're talking, we've talkedto our teams and we've actually
just recently engaged with themabout what tools they're using
and what what they're worriedabout.
And I think there's this ideathat it's going to kill
(20:56):
creativity.
And look, I think there's nodoubt that it's going to alter
the way we work.
We're just not quite sure yethow.
Uh, I still think as adocumentary maker, um, you know,
you're not going to be able tojust entirely outsource your
process.
(21:16):
I mean, it's it's kind of anoversimplification, I think, of
what's going to happen.
There will obviously be somejobs where perhaps the sort of
more process-driven roles maydisappear.
I would like to think that,well, I believe that the core of
(21:37):
creativity will always remain.
It's the human touch that wouldbe required.
So hopefully we'll get to asituation where more of the
workers are doing creative workand less process work, ideally.
Now, whether that will happen ornot, I'm I'm not sure.
But you know, and it's not justour industry, every industry is
kind of grappling with this.
(21:58):
So I think we we what we don'twant to do is become some kind
of rarefied art form orpractice, a bit like, I mean,
with all due respect to myfriends in opera, opera's very
rare and it's it's kind of itdoesn't talk to the everyday
experiences of virtually allAustralians and all people.
(22:20):
So we we need to keep that atthe core of the core of our
business.
We need to engage withaudiences, we need to we need to
serve them better.
We know they want higherproduction values, we know they
want more compelling stories,they know we know they they want
well-curated material that isdelivered to their living room.
So we've just got to keep thatfirst and foremost.
(22:41):
And we like every industry,we've got to do things quicker,
faster, cheaper.
So if we keep true to ourprinciples and we use those as
our guiding tools, and we also Ithink there is an obligation on
us to help train our staff andhelp them transition.
But you know, again, the ideathat people wouldn't sit in an
(23:04):
office and have a computer, Imean, you know, 20 years ago
when I started, we didn't havewe did literally didn't have a
computer.
So, you know, this this isendless, but it's it's it's
clearly a it's clearly um it's amajor departure and it's a major
opportunity and risk.
But also I think when you giveeverybody the same tool, like
every every producer in theworld is gonna have access to
(23:25):
this technology.
Um, you're okay, well, what'sgonna differentiate us with
everybody else?
It's gonna be our human creativeskills.
And that that's not gonnachange, if you like.
It's just gonna lift the bench,the bar, higher for everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (23:39):
So that's a good point.
And and and and what is it, doyou think, now, I guess, you
know, irrespective of of anAI-enabled future, but what is
it now that sets wild beer apartfrom from others in in the
industry?
SPEAKER_00 (23:52):
I think what is slightly different about us is I
do think our internationaloutlook is an advantage.
I think we're very much engagedwith lots of buyers across the
world.
I think that we're ambitious asa business.
I mean, we we want to grow.
(24:14):
Um we don't we don't want tomake two or three bespoke little
films a year.
We want we want a business thathas scale, uh, creates a lot of
opportunities, and delivers onthe expectations of customers
and thrills audiences.
And that's something that uhwe're not taking for granted.
And and I I I do believe that ifyou I mean it's it's it's
(24:41):
marrying that sort of creativeexpertise and a really sound
business plan and a businessstrategy, uh, which probably
sounds obvious, but some maybesometimes is not almost, you
know.
People may prioritize one overthe other.
And I think I think it's justthat rare brick combination of
people.
When when we merged ourbusinesses, we had Bearcage and
(25:04):
Wild Fury, you know, it wasn'tone and one equals two, it was
one and one equals ten.
You know, the business grew sixor sevenfold.
And I think it's just thatchemistry of bringing those
elements together.
SPEAKER_01 (25:15):
Yeah.
Um now, as uh obviously anexporter of of services from the
ACT, um, more than products, umcan I ask you about sort of
accessing those internationalmarkets?
I mean, what's been what's beenthe the trick to kind of get in
the door?
Because the uh the world's a bigplace, the entertainment
industry is a big place.
(25:36):
Um how have you managed to sortof get through uh and talk to
some of those internationalcustomers?
SPEAKER_00 (25:42):
We do go to markets, uh, and there's lots of them, so
we're careful and selectiveabout the ones that we do.
Uh and then I think the otherthing is that you you show up
every market with a new slateand you just never give up.
And one of the things thatbuyers are going to, you know,
you need to be a regularfixture, they need to see your
(26:04):
face.
We obviously stay in touch viaZoom and you know, in contact
with them, but I think if it'sabout your physical presence, um
we were always intrigued by whatwas happening overseas, we
always were looking for thoseopportunities.
It was kind of in our I don'tknow, Serge was a grew up as a
(26:27):
diplomat, my dad was in thearmy, we travelled everywhere,
we're very outward-lookingpeople.
So I think that kind of thatnatural curiosity fueled our
ambition, and I think that's themain thing.
It's it's look, it's not easy.
It's a bit glib to say, youknow, just go out there and and
(26:49):
you know make yourself present.
But you know, I think one of thethings is if you if your shows
are really good, you've gotsomething unique, you've got a
great creative product, ifyou've got those sort of
baselines, well then you know,certainly you should be thinking
about the international marketand and don't necessarily only
pref preference the domesticmarket.
Yeah.
(27:09):
But it comes down, you think, toa to a presence and building
those relationships.
Building the relationships.
And it takes years.
It really does take years.
And you know, once you get anopportunity, um So you know, one
of the first few things we did,we actually almost I don't even
think we might we might have theproduction costs might have been
more than what we what we got uhwhat we got from the commission.
(27:30):
But the thing that we thoughtwas well, okay, we could spend a
lot of money marketing, and thiswill be a great marketing
opportunity.
So we saw a lot of those umcosts as an opportunity and a
marketing expense to build abusiness long term, and and I
think that that worked as well.
SPEAKER_01 (27:45):
Yeah, cool.
So what's next for Wild BeerEntertainment?
Um any exciting projects in thepipeline?
There are.
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
Um there's a we're underway, we've produced stuff
the British style season one andtwo, and season three is in
production now.
Uh, we've got a a major series,four-part series on the
redevelopment of the warmemorial that'll be on SPS.
That'll come out uh early nextyear.
(28:13):
We're doing a a series about theHigh Court, the sort of landmark
cases that shaped Australia.
Um and so you know, therethey're some of the big projects
that are on the pipeline.
And we've just we just deliveredum a feature doc for Stan on Joe
Bielcki Peterson, which was a Imean, again, it was just a
(28:34):
fascinating story.
I mean, I grew up in that era,so I'm I'm really mindful of
Joe.
But it's astonishing, so manyyounger people had no idea, they
didn't know anything about him,no, completely unaware that this
guy existed.
And I sat down and watched itwith my kids, and they were I
mean, they were gobsmacked atsome of the capers.
And but it's a it's a quite it'squite a balanced film.
(28:56):
It looks at, you know, I guesshe's he's obviously a
conservative, and we he's gotfans and haters, and we give
everyone a chance to say, buthe's a you know, he's a
remarkable political figure.
So uh it's worth checking out.
SPEAKER_01 (29:09):
Yeah, I'll do I'll do that.
Um, and I guess just to close,Michael, um you know, business
can be can be challenging.
What's your biggest challenge inrunning the business?
And and if you had a magic wand,what what would you wave to to
make happen?
SPEAKER_00 (29:24):
Yeah, I mean it's I guess the the biggest challenge,
it's it's it's alignment.
It's getting everyone to see andpull in the same direction.
Um and I and and that's umthat's particularly you know
when we started we all at whatat Bear Cage we all sit in a
(29:47):
room and I could see everybody.
But now we're all over thecountry with some of us
overseas, we've got you knowagents in the UK and Spain.
It's it's actually trying to geteveryone kind of agreeing and
put in the same direction.
And that's not because thatthey're not ambitious or they
don't want to do a great job.
It's just it's so hard withpeople on different time zones
(30:08):
and it seems great but it'sreally it's really hard to keep
keep the focus on the prize.
So what's the trick?
How have you how are you workingto make that happen?
I think what we're doing is youknow one just at the core of
what we do incredibly respectfulof the creative process.
(30:30):
We we we do and aim to be apeople focused you know we say
people before projects.
I mean great projects come fromgreat people so if we if we have
the right mindset and wedemonstrate that meaningfully on
a daily basis I think I thinkwe're going to we do quite well
and look the business does Imean given this given what where
(30:54):
we reach how much we make whothe audiences are who our buyers
are I think it I think it'squite a remarkable story.
And sometimes I I think back 25years ago I just I don't think I
even could have imagined thebusiness the way it is and
that's that's not about me asthe CEO or Serge as the founder.
(31:14):
As you as your business growsyou find being a founder is less
important.
It's about the team that youbring around you and and we've
got an amazing team and that'sone of the great opportunities
when you build a business andyou start to get scale you can
hire smart people.
If I'd have could live my wholecareer again I would always hire
(31:38):
the smartest person and pay themas much as I possibly could
because my experience is thatthey are going to add value way
beyond what you can imagine.
And that's that's not aboutpreferencing skills it's just
about the the value of the theempowering value the exponential
value of creating a team andbuilding a structure.
SPEAKER_01 (32:01):
Absolutely some wise advice there thank you probably
for everyone in the businesscommunity.
So um uh Michael Tier the CEO ofWildware Entertainment thank you
so much for joining me here onthe Canberra Business podcast
today uh it's been great to havea chat um and uh we'll look out
for your next uh next uh seriesum coming out and I'll go and
(32:21):
check out Joby LQ Peterson inthe in the meantime but um thank
you so much for joining us uhit's been great having you here
thanks Greg um uh don't forgetto uh check us out and and
follow us on your favoritepodcast platform for future
episodes of the CanberraBusiness Podcast uh and I'll
catch you next time thank you
Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast.
I'm Greg Harford, your host fromthe Canberra Business Chamber,
and today I'm joined by MichaelTier, the CEO of Wildbear
Entertainment.
Michael, welcome to the podcast.
Great to have you here.
For the uninitiated, um, who isWildbear Entertainment and what
do you do?
SPEAKER_00 (00:37):
Wildbear is a film and television company or a
content company we like to referto ourselves.
So we work primarily indocumentary and factual
television, um, but we also dowork in corporate and uh
corporate communication.
Uh we're a sort of end-to-endbusiness.
(00:59):
So we come up with concepts, wefinance films, we make films, we
deliver them, and then weexploit them through our
distribution business.
So we're I guess we're we'rebroadly diversified.
Um, and we operate our main ourheadquarters is in Canberra, but
we've got subs offices in Sydneyand Brisbane, um, Melbourne, and
(01:22):
Dunedin in New Zealand.
SPEAKER_01 (01:24):
Yeah.
So so you're an internationalcompany, in fact, uh, which is
which is awesome, but you'relocally owned?
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
Locally owned.
Uh I'm uh there's there's fourshareholders.
We have an investor and Serge,who's my original business
partner from way back.
We founded the company, and Tinaas well.
She's uh from Sydney.
We merged in 2014.
Originally we were calledBearcage, we're a Canberra
production company, but in 2014we merged with a bigger
(01:52):
business, and uh that was thesort of start of our big growth
spurt, I suppose.
So, how did you get started inthe industry?
Well, Serge and I both uh met atuniversity at the University of
Canberra, and we were bothstudying media, and in those
days it was very difficult as itis now to get a break or get an
(02:12):
opportunity, and in our wisdom,we decided to set up our own
production company so that wecould employ ourselves.
Uh and it was a very it washard.
I mean, it was a very slowprocess, it took many years to
get our first few jobs throughthe door.
Um, but I guess we're an exampleof persistence pays off.
Uh you know, we started to getmore and more work, we started
(02:34):
to build a reputation, um, andthen you know, over time we
began our first, got our firstemployee and built the business
slowly.
Uh, but it was it was almost asif we we thought, you know, at
the beginning we met someone whogave us a bit of career advice
(02:56):
and he said, look, if you wantto be a producer and you want to
be a director, you sort of startyour career in that doing that
job.
But you know, you can I guessthere's other ways you can go,
you can work yourself throughthe system, you can begin at a
sort of an entry level.
So so we we adopted thatapproach, and that's how you
know we came to where we aretoday.
(03:16):
So um how how big's the businessnow?
SPEAKER_01 (03:19):
How many people do you employ?
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
Uh this month we've got 180.
Um so it goes up and downbecause of projects.
We've got a couple of largeproductions on, but the base
level of staff is 140.
Uh, and then we we scale up andscale down depending on what
work we've got on at the currenttime.
SPEAKER_01 (03:38):
So, I mean that's a reasonably sizable business for
Canberra, so well done onbuilding that.
But I guess um technology haschanged a lot over the time that
you've been running thebusiness, and um, we're
obviously in a world where umcontent is much more kind of
democratized.
Anyone with a phone effectivelycan film stuff.
(03:59):
Has that posed challenges foryou in in your business and
what's been the implication ofthat?
SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
Yeah, it's posed challenges and opportunities.
I mean, when Serge and I beganin the industry, everything was
analogue, it was all tape, itwas all physical media, uh, and
then now we're in an entirelydigital business from beginning
to end, and we make things inthe digital format, we deliver
them in uh films uh across theworld digitally.
(04:29):
Uh and also when we started,there were very few channels for
distribution.
Effectively, it was thefree-to-air networks in
Australia, so there were lessopportunities internationally,
much more locally focused.
So, in that sort of explosion ofcontent that's happened in my
career, there's definitely beena lot of opportunities created,
(04:50):
but we've also seen massiveshifts.
And you know, my view aboutbusiness is that you know, we've
we've sort of have to reinventthe business every three to five
years because just to kind ofadapt to the the environment and
to meet the expectations ofcustomers.
And you know, obviously, I thinkone of our competitors is not
(05:10):
just film and TV, but the thesort of attention economy, if
you like.
It's TikTok, it's um Facebook,it's you know, um Instagram.
So, you know, we've got a lot ofand gaming is obviously a thing
that's you know improved vastly.
But one thing that is alwaysparamount in our business and
(05:32):
has always been pre-eminent isis what we call story skills.
Can you tell a story?
Can you tell it in long form?
Can you, in the case of afeature documentary, make a film
with three defined acts withturning points and hooks that
leave audiences hanging?
Even though the technology'schanged, those fundamental
(05:54):
elements of making a film are asthey've always been.
And I'd like to think that inour industry we've embraced that
and we've we've kept core tothat mission, but we've all
added a lot of tools to ourpalette of the way we we make
things.
But we can't be complacent.
I mean, YouTube now is thebiggest streamer of film and
(06:17):
television in the world.
Uh it means that there's lots ofcompetition for um audience
eyeballs.
We we work throughintermediaries, through
platforms, so our clients andcustomers are uh the ABC or
Netflix or Disney or BBC.
(06:38):
And so we're you know, we'reworking with them, we're making
content that we hope is going toresonate with their audiences.
So it's as competitive as it'sever been, but it's also there's
never been more opportunity aswell.
SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
So, how does it work um supplying content to some of
those big networks andaggregators and streamers?
Are you are you coming up withthe idea and then going and
pitching it to them, or are theycoming to you and saying we want
you to make X?
SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
A bit of both.
Um sometimes if you've got if wehave a really good relationship
with a platform, they might cometo you and say, Look, we want
something on X and we need todevelop that idea up.
Other times we're coming up withan original idea, and then
invariably you've got a platformin mind when you when you
(07:24):
develop the concept and youthink this would be really work
really well for whoever.
And then it's up to us to enterto develop the idea, to present
it in a way that's compelling.
And and not only do you have tothink about the the idea, what
it is, you have to think abouthow much it's going to cost, how
(07:44):
long you can take to make it,um, and package all those
elements, so call it a package.
Uh, it might have a particulardirector attached, it might have
a particular access to aprecinct or some other, you
know, some IP, and and thenpackage that and present that.
(08:04):
And then it's sort of also ourjob to get that financed.
It was more common previouslythat you might have a buyer that
have a big checkbook and theycould write a check.
That's becoming less common.
Uh, you do need to spend a bitmore energy piecing the finance
together.
So that's quite a complicatedprocess as well.
Um, but that's I guess wherethat's what producing is.
(08:29):
It's thinking about okay, what'sa great idea, it's pulling the
team together, it's identifyingthe talent, it's thinking about
the money, it's thinking aboutthe audience, it's thinking
about what are the commercialopportunities, and it's that
whole kind of rounded packagethat we at Wildbear specialise.
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
And in terms of that financing, we've obviously
there's there's pools ofgovernment money available in
Australia and all over the worldto support film production.
Um, but how how easy is it tofind private sector funding to
support the work you do?
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
The private sector's funding's the most challenging.
I mean, there's two, I guessthere's two types.
There's the market funding, whatwe call market, and that will be
a buyer who's either got aplatform or a distributor who's
acquiring the license or therepresent the rights to to sell
that film in markets.
Private equity, privateinvestment uh is is difficult.
(09:25):
It's a high it is a high-riskbusiness, uh, and you've got to
have a pretty solid businessplan.
A lot of the time with a film,maybe the private equity is the
part of the money.
It might be that you can sort ofpackage it up so that the
investors get their money back abit earlier than some of the
other funding sources, includingthe producer.
(09:46):
So you can devise packages whereprivate equity is possible, but
it's uh I think one of thechallenges with film and TV and
when you're talking to privateinvestors is I think private
investors like the idea ofeither uh you know risk and
reward, maybe a high risk butpotential for massive reward.
(10:08):
A lot of the time you see infilm projects the that there are
you know there is upside, butit's not enormous.
So, you know, you were whenwe're talking to investors, they
might be involved in the projectbecause they're particularly
passionate about the content.
They might have great faith inthe creative team, they might
like to enjoy the experience,uh, they might we might be able
(10:29):
to put them in a position wherethe risk is lessened for them,
and we must also convince theother investors in the film that
that's a particularlyappropriate way to go.
Uh it's it's a very much anexperienced game.
Um you need, I think, a lot ofuh a strong track record.
You really have a need to have agreat depth of understanding of
(10:51):
the market, uh, and you need tobe able to communicate all of
those elements to your investorsand make sure that they're fully
aware of what they're gettinginvolved in.
Um I'm always suspicious or youknow, caution-y about like any
investment returns that seem toogood to be true, or very
inexperienced teams, or peoplewho haven't.
(11:13):
In the end, one of the otherimportant things about films is
you know, look at the market,what what sort of buyers are
involved, uh, because that'll bea good sign about the potential
of a project.
I mean, there's always a remote,you know, there's always great
stories about unknown projectsand unknown filmmakers who pull
something together and it hasincredible returns and rewards.
Uh, but it's a it's a rarestory.
(11:35):
It's like a lot of things, it'shard graphed, it's careful
management, uh, it's a reallywell-structured business plan,
and it's a great team that'sgoing to deliver on the
expectations of the project.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:46):
And how long does it take to pull one of these
projects together?
I mean, I guess it depends onthe size of the thing.
But I mean, um, you know, ifevery half hour of content that
you produce, what's what's theback-end time of that?
SPEAKER_00 (11:59):
Yeah, well, so the we estimate our hit rate is we'd
for every 10 ideas we develop,we'd probably get one financed.
Uh it it can, in certain genreswhere we've really got a lot of
expertise, you can get up to youknow 30% of the ideas that you
develop.
So, in terms of development, youknow, we like to say that uh no
(12:22):
ideas ever abandoned becauseit's stories have we've
developed five years ago,finally come to market and have
their day.
So it's a multi-year project.
Uh one of the keys to success ishaving a slate.
Like you need a multitude ofideas.
It's very difficult to take oneor two ideas into the market and
(12:42):
you know hope that you're goingto be successful.
It's like any kind of business,it's a numbers game.
You need to speak to ten buyersbefore you find one who's going
to commit the money.
So, and then in in developing aslate, what you're trying to do
is look at what you know what'sour strength, how do we kind of
position the brand, what whatdoes our company, what are we
(13:03):
known for?
Uh, how is is that in ourwheelhouse?
Because clearly it's a veryextremely competitive market.
Uh, and so ideas, it's not ait's not sort of like a it's not
a it's not like a lightningstrikes thing.
I think what we're trying to dois develop ideas that fit with
our wild bear brand that we'reknown for, but also have a
(13:25):
unique offering and are a littlebit different, and I guess offer
something new.
So, what's your favorite projectbeen over the years?
I mean, it it varies, uh uh, ofcourse.
Uh we we just did a um a filmwith Ned Brockman where he's the
(13:46):
crazy tradie who's a bit of asocial media phenomenon who ran
across Australia forhomelessness.
And Ned's he's an extraordinarycharacter, you know.
Like he is, you know, when wegot involved with the project, I
realised there's actually a lotof people that have run across
Australia or run from north tosouth.
But Ned is that's quiteastonishing to know in itself,
actually.
(14:07):
Exactly.
But there's something about Ned,he's just he's just such a
hearts-on-sleeve guy, and it's afilm that surge directed my
business partner, my founder.
And and anyway, it's just it'sit's it's so raw, it portrays
Ned Wattson all, but you justcan't help falling in love with
(14:29):
the guy.
But also, I look at him and Ithink, wow, you're an extreme
character.
You're you kind of carryyourself around every day, and
that's that's that's not easy.
So it's in that way, I thinkit's really insightful.
And I, you know, I really lovethat film, I think it's great.
But look, we just uh we werelucky enough to get secure a
(14:49):
commission with the ABC to makea dock that marked the 50th
anniversary of Papua New Guinea,and it was on TV just this week,
and um I had the great pleasureof just sitting at home with the
family and watching it, and I itI loved it, you know, and it's
it's it's got it's gotinformation that I didn't know,
it's got archive from the 70sthat looks astonishingly crisp
(15:12):
and clear as if it was shotyesterday, and it's a
fascinating part of our history,uh, and we you know deal with
difficult topics, and it wasjust a great watch.
So, you know, it's always apleasure.
One of the great things about myjob as the CEO is that I'm kind
of across everything, but notI'm wide, but not deep.
So I get to sit down at the endof it and look at a show, and
(15:34):
uh, you know, it's in alwaysrewarding, it's always
incredibly satisfying.
SPEAKER_01 (15:39):
Yeah.
And is most of your productdestined for Australia?
I know you sell some stuff intosome of the streamers, but um,
what's your global impact?
SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
No, we're 60% of our revenues from overseas.
Uh it's almost impossible, Ithink, to build a business in
Australia that entirely focuseson our domestic market.
Uh, you need it's a globalbusiness.
If you if if yeah, we're we'rewe're in documentary and
(16:07):
specialist factual, which are inan in a niche.
So it the Australian contentmarket's 3% of the world content
market.
And then within that, thespecialist factual, which is
what we do, it's probably about10%.
Now, if you think of that nichein Australia, it's it's minute.
But if you think about that on aglobal scale, that's it's
(16:29):
actually quite large.
So it if you like we want to do,we want to be one of the best
company in our niche.
And if you're in the globalgame, well then you've got that
opportunity.
And and one of the otherimportant things about our
business is scale and volume.
So you need a lot of content,you need to make things, you
(16:49):
know, you need to output a lotof TV.
We we we we release, deliverabout 130, 140, 150 hours of TV
a year, which is quite a lot,but that allows our teams to
build their skills, uh, itallows us to find out more about
audiences, it builds someeconomies of scale.
So creative people are contraryperhaps to the cliche, a lot of
(17:12):
them are extremely prolific.
They're they're not working onone masterpiece, they're working
on five or six at one time.
So uh to me, you know, you'vegot to have a worldview.
It's hard from Australia, we'rea long way away, it's expensive
to get to the markets and it'sbecome more expensive since
COVID.
It's really noticeable,noticeable how much more it
costs.
(17:33):
Um it's one of the again, as Ithink harking back to the
explosion of platforms, it'sit's one of the great
opportunities in our businessthat you can go overseas, you
can meet buyers, they knowyou're from Australia, and
they're prepared to listen toyour pitch and commission your
show if you're good enough.
(17:53):
And is that an advantage, do youthink, being Australian?
We have an amazing reputationinternationally.
Uh everyone, there's been workdone for 50 years.
Some of the producers and someof the creative teams have
battled.
So, you know, the cliche ofstanding on the shoulders of
giants is true.
(18:14):
And we're build we you know,we're we're constantly trying to
build on that reputation.
The brand Australia is a goodbrand.
Everyone loves the country theywant to visit.
Most people can't afford it ordon't have the time.
So uh yeah, I think we've got awe have got a great opportunity.
We've got a great system ofsupport here.
Um, we've got federal and statefunding.
(18:35):
Um and because we're so far fromthe main markets, the main, you
know, the North Atlantic market,the UK, Canada, US, Germany,
France, they're the big, the bigmajor territories, so we're a
long way from that space.
But I think we punch above ourweight given the relative size
of our country and the size ofour industry.
(18:56):
Yeah.
And how much of your productionis actually offshore as opposed
to being here?
It's all made here.
All done here.
Uh occasionally we'll have ashoot where we might shoot
something overseas, but um, it'sall made out of Australia,
Australian-made.
Uh and the but what we aremaking content for is the global
(19:18):
market.
So sometimes it's notnecessarily uh recognizably
Australian.
We might make a history show, wemight make a natural history
show that doesn't look like anAustralian film.
So that's one thing we we I saythat you know, like there's
there's there's global shows andthere's local shows, and often
(19:40):
if you've got the Venn diagramwhere they both kind of cross
over, it's actually quite rareand few.
Um but if you're mindful of whoyou're making your shows for.
I mean, we we make a lot ofhistory for European history,
and I I sometimes think, I mean,of not no foreign producer comes
to Australia and does anythingabout Australian history.
And I think that's a little bitabout the Australian
(20:01):
sensibility.
We can we're a little bit moreadaptable, we're a little bit
less strident, we're prepared tolisten, uh, we're prepared to
adapt different viewpoints, andI think that stands us in good
steed.
Fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (20:14):
Um so we touched a little bit earlier on technology
and the evolving kind of thingsthat have happened in the move
from analog to a fully digitalenvironment for for production.
Um, but AI is on everyone'slips.
Um what is what is the future ofyour industry with AI and how
are you embracing those tools?
SPEAKER_00 (20:34):
Yeah, look, I'd be unrealistic to say that it's not
causing concern.
Uh we're talking, we've talkedto our teams and we've actually
just recently engaged with themabout what tools they're using
and what what they're worriedabout.
And I think there's this ideathat it's going to kill
(20:56):
creativity.
And look, I think there's nodoubt that it's going to alter
the way we work.
We're just not quite sure yethow.
Uh, I still think as adocumentary maker, um, you know,
you're not going to be able tojust entirely outsource your
process.
(21:16):
I mean, it's it's kind of anoversimplification, I think, of
what's going to happen.
There will obviously be somejobs where perhaps the sort of
more process-driven roles maydisappear.
I would like to think that,well, I believe that the core of
(21:37):
creativity will always remain.
It's the human touch that wouldbe required.
So hopefully we'll get to asituation where more of the
workers are doing creative workand less process work, ideally.
Now, whether that will happen ornot, I'm I'm not sure.
But you know, and it's not justour industry, every industry is
kind of grappling with this.
(21:58):
So I think we we what we don'twant to do is become some kind
of rarefied art form orpractice, a bit like, I mean,
with all due respect to myfriends in opera, opera's very
rare and it's it's kind of itdoesn't talk to the everyday
experiences of virtually allAustralians and all people.
(22:20):
So we we need to keep that atthe core of the core of our
business.
We need to engage withaudiences, we need to we need to
serve them better.
We know they want higherproduction values, we know they
want more compelling stories,they know we know they they want
well-curated material that isdelivered to their living room.
So we've just got to keep thatfirst and foremost.
(22:41):
And we like every industry,we've got to do things quicker,
faster, cheaper.
So if we keep true to ourprinciples and we use those as
our guiding tools, and we also Ithink there is an obligation on
us to help train our staff andhelp them transition.
But you know, again, the ideathat people wouldn't sit in an
(23:04):
office and have a computer, Imean, you know, 20 years ago
when I started, we didn't havewe did literally didn't have a
computer.
So, you know, this this isendless, but it's it's it's
clearly a it's clearly um it's amajor departure and it's a major
opportunity and risk.
But also I think when you giveeverybody the same tool, like
every every producer in theworld is gonna have access to
(23:25):
this technology.
Um, you're okay, well, what'sgonna differentiate us with
everybody else?
It's gonna be our human creativeskills.
And that that's not gonnachange, if you like.
It's just gonna lift the bench,the bar, higher for everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (23:39):
So that's a good point.
And and and and what is it, doyou think, now, I guess, you
know, irrespective of of anAI-enabled future, but what is
it now that sets wild beer apartfrom from others in in the
industry?
SPEAKER_00 (23:52):
I think what is slightly different about us is I
do think our internationaloutlook is an advantage.
I think we're very much engagedwith lots of buyers across the
world.
I think that we're ambitious asa business.
I mean, we we want to grow.
(24:14):
Um we don't we don't want tomake two or three bespoke little
films a year.
We want we want a business thathas scale, uh, creates a lot of
opportunities, and delivers onthe expectations of customers
and thrills audiences.
And that's something that uhwe're not taking for granted.
And and I I I do believe that ifyou I mean it's it's it's
(24:41):
marrying that sort of creativeexpertise and a really sound
business plan and a businessstrategy, uh, which probably
sounds obvious, but some maybesometimes is not almost, you
know.
People may prioritize one overthe other.
And I think I think it's justthat rare brick combination of
people.
When when we merged ourbusinesses, we had Bearcage and
(25:04):
Wild Fury, you know, it wasn'tone and one equals two, it was
one and one equals ten.
You know, the business grew sixor sevenfold.
And I think it's just thatchemistry of bringing those
elements together.
SPEAKER_01 (25:15):
Yeah.
Um now, as uh obviously anexporter of of services from the
ACT, um, more than products, umcan I ask you about sort of
accessing those internationalmarkets?
I mean, what's been what's beenthe the trick to kind of get in
the door?
Because the uh the world's a bigplace, the entertainment
industry is a big place.
(25:36):
Um how have you managed to sortof get through uh and talk to
some of those internationalcustomers?
SPEAKER_00 (25:42):
We do go to markets, uh, and there's lots of them, so
we're careful and selectiveabout the ones that we do.
Uh and then I think the otherthing is that you you show up
every market with a new slateand you just never give up.
And one of the things thatbuyers are going to, you know,
you need to be a regularfixture, they need to see your
(26:04):
face.
We obviously stay in touch viaZoom and you know, in contact
with them, but I think if it'sabout your physical presence, um
we were always intrigued by whatwas happening overseas, we
always were looking for thoseopportunities.
It was kind of in our I don'tknow, Serge was a grew up as a
(26:27):
diplomat, my dad was in thearmy, we travelled everywhere,
we're very outward-lookingpeople.
So I think that kind of thatnatural curiosity fueled our
ambition, and I think that's themain thing.
It's it's look, it's not easy.
It's a bit glib to say, youknow, just go out there and and
(26:49):
you know make yourself present.
But you know, I think one of thethings is if you if your shows
are really good, you've gotsomething unique, you've got a
great creative product, ifyou've got those sort of
baselines, well then you know,certainly you should be thinking
about the international marketand and don't necessarily only
pref preference the domesticmarket.
Yeah.
(27:09):
But it comes down, you think, toa to a presence and building
those relationships.
Building the relationships.
And it takes years.
It really does take years.
And you know, once you get anopportunity, um So you know, one
of the first few things we did,we actually almost I don't even
think we might we might have theproduction costs might have been
more than what we what we got uhwhat we got from the commission.
(27:30):
But the thing that we thoughtwas well, okay, we could spend a
lot of money marketing, and thiswill be a great marketing
opportunity.
So we saw a lot of those umcosts as an opportunity and a
marketing expense to build abusiness long term, and and I
think that that worked as well.
SPEAKER_01 (27:45):
Yeah, cool.
So what's next for Wild BeerEntertainment?
Um any exciting projects in thepipeline?
There are.
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
Um there's a we're underway, we've produced stuff
the British style season one andtwo, and season three is in
production now.
Uh, we've got a a major series,four-part series on the
redevelopment of the warmemorial that'll be on SPS.
That'll come out uh early nextyear.
(28:13):
We're doing a a series about theHigh Court, the sort of landmark
cases that shaped Australia.
Um and so you know, therethey're some of the big projects
that are on the pipeline.
And we've just we just deliveredum a feature doc for Stan on Joe
Bielcki Peterson, which was a Imean, again, it was just a
(28:34):
fascinating story.
I mean, I grew up in that era,so I'm I'm really mindful of
Joe.
But it's astonishing, so manyyounger people had no idea, they
didn't know anything about him,no, completely unaware that this
guy existed.
And I sat down and watched itwith my kids, and they were I
mean, they were gobsmacked atsome of the capers.
And but it's a it's a quite it'squite a balanced film.
(28:56):
It looks at, you know, I guesshe's he's obviously a
conservative, and we he's gotfans and haters, and we give
everyone a chance to say, buthe's a you know, he's a
remarkable political figure.
So uh it's worth checking out.
SPEAKER_01 (29:09):
Yeah, I'll do I'll do that.
Um, and I guess just to close,Michael, um you know, business
can be can be challenging.
What's your biggest challenge inrunning the business?
And and if you had a magic wand,what what would you wave to to
make happen?
SPEAKER_00 (29:24):
Yeah, I mean it's I guess the the biggest challenge,
it's it's it's alignment.
It's getting everyone to see andpull in the same direction.
Um and I and and that's umthat's particularly you know
when we started we all at whatat Bear Cage we all sit in a
(29:47):
room and I could see everybody.
But now we're all over thecountry with some of us
overseas, we've got you knowagents in the UK and Spain.
It's it's actually trying to geteveryone kind of agreeing and
put in the same direction.
And that's not because thatthey're not ambitious or they
don't want to do a great job.
It's just it's so hard withpeople on different time zones
(30:08):
and it seems great but it'sreally it's really hard to keep
keep the focus on the prize.
So what's the trick?
How have you how are you workingto make that happen?
I think what we're doing is youknow one just at the core of
what we do incredibly respectfulof the creative process.
(30:30):
We we we do and aim to be apeople focused you know we say
people before projects.
I mean great projects come fromgreat people so if we if we have
the right mindset and wedemonstrate that meaningfully on
a daily basis I think I thinkwe're going to we do quite well
and look the business does Imean given this given what where
(30:54):
we reach how much we make whothe audiences are who our buyers
are I think it I think it'squite a remarkable story.
And sometimes I I think back 25years ago I just I don't think I
even could have imagined thebusiness the way it is and
that's that's not about me asthe CEO or Serge as the founder.
(31:14):
As you as your business growsyou find being a founder is less
important.
It's about the team that youbring around you and and we've
got an amazing team and that'sone of the great opportunities
when you build a business andyou start to get scale you can
hire smart people.
If I'd have could live my wholecareer again I would always hire
(31:38):
the smartest person and pay themas much as I possibly could
because my experience is thatthey are going to add value way
beyond what you can imagine.
And that's that's not aboutpreferencing skills it's just
about the the value of the theempowering value the exponential
value of creating a team andbuilding a structure.
SPEAKER_01 (32:01):
Absolutely some wise advice there thank you probably
for everyone in the businesscommunity.
So um uh Michael Tier the CEO ofWildware Entertainment thank you
so much for joining me here onthe Canberra Business podcast
today uh it's been great to havea chat um and uh we'll look out
for your next uh next uh seriesum coming out and I'll go and
(32:21):
check out Joby LQ Peterson inthe in the meantime but um thank
you so much for joining us uhit's been great having you here
thanks Greg um uh don't forgetto uh check us out and and
follow us on your favoritepodcast platform for future
episodes of the CanberraBusiness Podcast uh and I'll
catch you next time thank you
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