June 3, 2025 • 13 mins
Why do some confident presenters crumble during coffee chats? We unpack the paradox of high-performing speakers with social anxiety and offer practical ways to show up without spiraling. In this episode we cover:
- The science behind “performance vs. connection” anxiety
- Why social stakes feel higher than spotlight moments
- How to manage real-life interactions without shutting down
Jill Griffin, host of The Career Refresh, delivers expert guidance on workplace challenges and career transitions. Jill leverages her experience working for the world's top brands like Coca-Cola, Microsoft, Hilton Hotels, and Martha Stewart to address leadership, burnout, team dynamics, and the 4Ps (perfectionism, people-pleasing, procrastination, and personalities).
Visit JillGriffinCoaching.com for more details on:
- Book a 1:1 Career Strategy and Executive Coaching HERE
- Build a Leadership Identity That Earns Trust and Delivers Results.
- Gallup CliftonStrengths Corporate Workshops to build a strengths-based culture
- Team Dynamics training to increase retention, communication, goal setting, and effective decision-making
- Keynote Speaking
- Grab a personal Resume Refresh with Jill Griffin HERE
Follow @JillGriffinOffical on Instagram for daily inspiration
Connect with and follow Jill on LinkedIn
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right, friends.
You can speak on stage in frontof numerous people, you can
lead that board meeting, you canpitch clients and investors,
you can moderate a panel withoutblinking, no big deal.
But put you in a casualnetworking event or after
(00:21):
business happy hour and suddenlyyou want to disappear.
And if this sounds like you,you're not alone, because I'm
one of you and you're not broken.
So welcome back to the careerrefresh, and this is where we're
going to unpack the momentsthat shape our career, our
leadership and our growth.
I'm Jill Griffin and today I amdiving into what I call the
(00:45):
social anxiety paradox.
Ready, let's dig in.
You're confident inpresentations.
You're probably pretty poisedand got it together.
When you're on stage and you'reable to articulate, you're in a
(01:05):
meeting and someone throws youthe ball and you're like yep, I
got it, I can cancel that, I canhandle it, I can get back to
you.
We'll find out.
You're fine.
But when we take away the script, the structure, maybe the title
, the business card, the role,suddenly you are overthinking
every word or playing awkwardmoments or wondering if you
(01:29):
should have said that or not.
You're really feeling somethingis different here and I just
want you to know this is notuncommon.
I see it in clients.
They tell me I have it myself.
We are high achievers.
Many of us are anxiousoverachievers, but we are high
achievers, we are leaders, weare heads of department, heads
(01:51):
of companies and we arecreatives and we can perform
brilliantly.
Right, you're up, you got it.
But there's something thathappens and that can feel really
anxious when we're in a spacewhere we're expected to have
this connection.
And look, if I want to unpackthis right, public speaking and
(02:13):
socializing are different thanpsychological experiences.
When you're on stage, you're incontrol.
There's a beginning, a middleand an end.
You're rehearsing, you aredressed however it feels best
for you to be able to performand publicly speak.
You're the expert and that'sthe thing.
Right, it's this one-waycommunication.
(02:35):
And now, in contrast with thesocial interaction, well, it's
unscripted, it's unpredictable.
People are messy, people arethemselves.
There's two-way and now you'reexpected to be spontaneous and
authentic.
But you're not necessarilycoming from a leadership
position anymore.
You're not necessarily in thatsame position that you play.
You know that you role play orthat you play in the office.
(02:58):
Right, the spotlight isn't onyour content anymore or the
company you work for, the titleyou hold.
It's on you, the person.
So for many people, publicspeaking triggers performance
anxiety.
Right Makes sense andsocializing can trigger this
connection anxiety and there's afear.
(03:19):
Behind the connection isusually something around what if
I say the wrong thing?
What if I'm misunderstood?
Are they judging me Right?
There's sort of some of thatloop that's going on.
If you're experiencing this, soit might show up where you're,
you know, again confidentprofessionally, but you're not
(03:41):
so thrilled about being atevents that don't have a clear
agenda or purpose.
And I will 100% I'm raising myhand on that and it's not that
I'm not, I guess I would say formyself.
It's not that I dread them, Ijust want it to be impactful and
I want everybody to get valueout of it.
And if there's no agenda orpurpose, sometimes my brain will
(04:04):
tell me stories becauseobviously unstructured play and
unstructured gathering isbeautiful and connective and
creative and inspiring.
So it's not true.
I'm just saying this is whathappens and how this type of
social anxiety can show up.
You may also play back what yousaid over and over.
What also could happen is yousay something and maybe you're
(04:26):
trying to be funny or you'remaking a joke and some people
get it and some don't.
So then you find yourselfexplaining it and it's not
really landing because theydon't really get it or they
don't have the same context, thesame life experience you have.
So you're just sort of playingthis over and you may have
physical signs of uncomfort.
Right, you might feel testchite, your test might feel a
little bit tight, your voice mayquiver a little bit, you may
(04:49):
feel that you're a little bitjittery in your energy and
you're also finding yourselfthat after the dinner or after
the talk, you're declining toeither hang out longer, like if
it's a formal dinner, you'relike, okay, I need to get out of
here.
If it's a talk or a networkingor a conference you're at, you
(05:09):
may be like, okay, I'm good, I'mgoing up to my room in the
hotel and I'm calling a night,I'm ordering room service, and
it's not because you're too busy, it's also because there's an
emotional overwhelm.
I know for myself sometimes itfeels like a you all who are
(05:29):
listening have a relationshipwith me.
But I'm building a relationshipwith you and during the course
of a workshop or if I'm runningan all day event, I'm going to
meet a bunch of you.
But the percentages right, theratio isn't I don't get to meet
all of you whereas you'remeeting me, and it can sometimes
just feel like I love what I doand I hear this from a lot of
(05:51):
speakers but the after effect isyou need to then go and retreat
and regroup.
So what do you do about it?
Again, suggestions find theones that work for you.
They're not all going to workfor you.
The first thing, because thishappened to me recently.
I was at a networking eventwith people that I would say I'm
friendly with and I juststarted to notice that one
(06:13):
person I don't I'm just going tosay she was in a mood right, so
she was representing verydifferently than she normally
represents.
That is her.
She is allowed to do that.
She could be whoever she wants,but she's normally quite
talkative and quite engaging andwarm and more outgoing and
(06:37):
quite engaging and warm and moreoutgoing.
And in this particular eventshe was standing there in the
circle and not saying anything,and I've known this person for
quite a few years.
It was very uncomfortable.
I didn't feel like to ask herwhat's wrong, because I don't
have that kind of relationshipwith her.
But also, she gets to justobserve, she gets to show up
however she wants and I get tosit with my feelings.
The point is, this is not abouther, this is about me.
(06:59):
But her withdrawing, sulkingshoulders, kind of looking down,
sighing a lot, checking herphone and not being it was only
four of us, so she's 25% of theconversation was very obvious.
Once again, she gets to do allof that.
(07:19):
I get to look at that socialanxiety that I'm feeling as in
relation to someone's behavior.
Right, it's not about I'm notbeing awkward, it's not
necessarily about introvert orextrovert although I do.
I always forget which is which.
I believe I am an extrovertedintrovert.
(07:40):
There's not a failure on mypart, there's certainly not a
failure on her part.
But labeling it and in thatmoment, me being able to catch a
beat and going, oh, there'sthat social anxiety, gel, it's
okay, right, that is one of thethings that really helps, that I
can call it versus believingwhatever I'm interpreting as
(08:01):
being true and then takingactions from it.
Because then I'm not takingactions from words, I'm taking
actions from what I think she'sthinking or doing or say like
it's insanity.
So first, just name it.
The second is, maybe prepyourself like you're having some
sort of talk.
I've said this before, it's mythree, two, one have three
(08:23):
questions, two people one hourat a time.
So if I was in that circle,based on the content of that
particular conference, I couldhave had two or three.
I conference I could have hadtwo or three.
I mean, I did right.
Have two or three conversationstarters or openers in my pocket
could also be not just aboutthe content but safe areas,
right.
So what's new and good in yourlife?
(08:45):
Tell me what's going on backhome, how are the kids, right.
You could also bring it intosomething that, if that felt
right for you, that's an areawhere you feel comfortable
asking and most people, if youask them to talk about their
personal lives, if you know theyhave children, don't make
assumptions, but if you knowthey have children or they have
a pet, that kind of conversation, a compliment, a question, a
(09:07):
shared experience.
This isn't fake, right?
It's kind of like preparingyour brain so that the anxiety
can come down because you have aplan.
And then I, like I said aboutthe three, two, one, following
through with that.
Don't go to a situationthinking you're going to meet
everyone.
Go in with a goal that I wantto connect with someone or
(09:29):
interesting person.
Sometimes I might even say I'mgoing to connect with people
that have red shirts on, justbecause I need something to
anchor myself to, and thenyou're just going in and having
those questions, right.
So you're anchoring in, you'reprepping yourself and then
you're anchoring in for thattalk.
Then use the pause.
I think it's completely okaythat just because there's
(09:52):
silence or space doesn't meanuh-oh.
I think it's okay to say youknow what, I'm collecting my
thoughts here for a second.
Or, depending on where you areand who you're with, you could
also say you know, sometimes Ifind these events a little
overwhelming.
I'm glad that I'm getting achance to talk to you one-on-one
, that sort of admitting whereyour own vulnerability is that
(10:16):
other person may share it, theymay feel relieved, they get to
respond however they want.
But again, you're showing up,human and real, and that, I mean
, isn't that what we all want?
And then recover with kindnessis, when you leave the event,
really look through what worked,what didn't work, what you
might do differently, andreminding yourself that you
(10:38):
showed up, you tried, that'senough, because it's not always
best to judge how you comeacross.
That's why putting facts onpaper what worked tonight.
What didn't work?
What would I do differently?
So understanding that you can be, as I would say, bold on stage
but sort of tender in thehallway.
(10:58):
Right, you can still be apowerful speaker, you can lead
teams, you can lead in theboardroom.
You don't struggle to makesmall talk.
I struggle because there's somany that introvert in me,
(11:19):
there's so many things usuallygoing around in the room that it
just can feel a little bitoverwhelming and my gorgeous
little neurodiverse brain justkind of gets a little
overwhelmed with that.
But it's okay that you can bein this place of social
anxiousness and still connect.
That's the paradox, right?
Just because you're feelingthat way doesn't mean you can't
(11:40):
make connections.
You are not broken.
I'm going to say you're wiredfor maybe more depth.
I've said a hundred times I'drather be the bartender than be
at the bar.
I want a four top.
I want small connection.
If we're at a party together,I'm going to be in the kitchen,
not because I'm cooking althoughI do have culinary training and
(12:00):
I might be cooking but I'mgoing to be in the kitchen
because for the most partthere's only so many people that
can fit in the kitchen andtherefore I know I'm going to be
able to go deeper with fewerpeople and that's been my gift
right Getting to know people andgoing deep.
That's where my gift rightgetting to know people and going
deep that's where I prefer.
So when I'm In a biggersituation, yeah, sometimes it
(12:21):
feels a little bit weird and alittle bit overwhelming.
It's not about me becomingdifferent, it's Understanding
how I can show up even in thatdiscomfort and accept that
nothing has gone wrong here andit's okay to be a little
uncomfortable, just a little bit, it's okay.
All right, friends, I want tohear from you.
You know, email me at hello, atjillgriffincoachingcom.
(12:43):
Questions, let me hear them.
Comments, feedback.
Do you have social anxiety andhow do you navigate through it
when it's happening in themoment?
I want to hear all of it.
All right until next time.
Embrace possibility, be really,really kind to yourself and
others, and I
All right, friends.
You can speak on stage in frontof numerous people, you can
lead that board meeting, you canpitch clients and investors,
you can moderate a panel withoutblinking, no big deal.
But put you in a casualnetworking event or after
(00:21):
business happy hour and suddenlyyou want to disappear.
And if this sounds like you,you're not alone, because I'm
one of you and you're not broken.
So welcome back to the careerrefresh, and this is where we're
going to unpack the momentsthat shape our career, our
leadership and our growth.
I'm Jill Griffin and today I amdiving into what I call the
(00:45):
social anxiety paradox.
Ready, let's dig in.
You're confident inpresentations.
You're probably pretty poisedand got it together.
When you're on stage and you'reable to articulate, you're in a
(01:05):
meeting and someone throws youthe ball and you're like yep, I
got it, I can cancel that, I canhandle it, I can get back to
you.
We'll find out.
You're fine.
But when we take away the script, the structure, maybe the title
, the business card, the role,suddenly you are overthinking
every word or playing awkwardmoments or wondering if you
(01:29):
should have said that or not.
You're really feeling somethingis different here and I just
want you to know this is notuncommon.
I see it in clients.
They tell me I have it myself.
We are high achievers.
Many of us are anxiousoverachievers, but we are high
achievers, we are leaders, weare heads of department, heads
(01:51):
of companies and we arecreatives and we can perform
brilliantly.
Right, you're up, you got it.
But there's something thathappens and that can feel really
anxious when we're in a spacewhere we're expected to have
this connection.
And look, if I want to unpackthis right, public speaking and
(02:13):
socializing are different thanpsychological experiences.
When you're on stage, you're incontrol.
There's a beginning, a middleand an end.
You're rehearsing, you aredressed however it feels best
for you to be able to performand publicly speak.
You're the expert and that'sthe thing.
Right, it's this one-waycommunication.
(02:35):
And now, in contrast with thesocial interaction, well, it's
unscripted, it's unpredictable.
People are messy, people arethemselves.
There's two-way and now you'reexpected to be spontaneous and
authentic.
But you're not necessarilycoming from a leadership
position anymore.
You're not necessarily in thatsame position that you play.
You know that you role play orthat you play in the office.
(02:58):
Right, the spotlight isn't onyour content anymore or the
company you work for, the titleyou hold.
It's on you, the person.
So for many people, publicspeaking triggers performance
anxiety.
Right Makes sense andsocializing can trigger this
connection anxiety and there's afear.
(03:19):
Behind the connection isusually something around what if
I say the wrong thing?
What if I'm misunderstood?
Are they judging me Right?
There's sort of some of thatloop that's going on.
If you're experiencing this, soit might show up where you're,
you know, again confidentprofessionally, but you're not
(03:41):
so thrilled about being atevents that don't have a clear
agenda or purpose.
And I will 100% I'm raising myhand on that and it's not that
I'm not, I guess I would say formyself.
It's not that I dread them, Ijust want it to be impactful and
I want everybody to get valueout of it.
And if there's no agenda orpurpose, sometimes my brain will
(04:04):
tell me stories becauseobviously unstructured play and
unstructured gathering isbeautiful and connective and
creative and inspiring.
So it's not true.
I'm just saying this is whathappens and how this type of
social anxiety can show up.
You may also play back what yousaid over and over.
What also could happen is yousay something and maybe you're
(04:26):
trying to be funny or you'remaking a joke and some people
get it and some don't.
So then you find yourselfexplaining it and it's not
really landing because theydon't really get it or they
don't have the same context, thesame life experience you have.
So you're just sort of playingthis over and you may have
physical signs of uncomfort.
Right, you might feel testchite, your test might feel a
little bit tight, your voice mayquiver a little bit, you may
(04:49):
feel that you're a little bitjittery in your energy and
you're also finding yourselfthat after the dinner or after
the talk, you're declining toeither hang out longer, like if
it's a formal dinner, you'relike, okay, I need to get out of
here.
If it's a talk or a networkingor a conference you're at, you
(05:09):
may be like, okay, I'm good, I'mgoing up to my room in the
hotel and I'm calling a night,I'm ordering room service, and
it's not because you're too busy, it's also because there's an
emotional overwhelm.
I know for myself sometimes itfeels like a you all who are
(05:29):
listening have a relationshipwith me.
But I'm building a relationshipwith you and during the course
of a workshop or if I'm runningan all day event, I'm going to
meet a bunch of you.
But the percentages right, theratio isn't I don't get to meet
all of you whereas you'remeeting me, and it can sometimes
just feel like I love what I doand I hear this from a lot of
(05:51):
speakers but the after effect isyou need to then go and retreat
and regroup.
So what do you do about it?
Again, suggestions find theones that work for you.
They're not all going to workfor you.
The first thing, because thishappened to me recently.
I was at a networking eventwith people that I would say I'm
friendly with and I juststarted to notice that one
(06:13):
person I don't I'm just going tosay she was in a mood right, so
she was representing verydifferently than she normally
represents.
That is her.
She is allowed to do that.
She could be whoever she wants,but she's normally quite
talkative and quite engaging andwarm and more outgoing and
(06:37):
quite engaging and warm and moreoutgoing.
And in this particular eventshe was standing there in the
circle and not saying anything,and I've known this person for
quite a few years.
It was very uncomfortable.
I didn't feel like to ask herwhat's wrong, because I don't
have that kind of relationshipwith her.
But also, she gets to justobserve, she gets to show up
however she wants and I get tosit with my feelings.
The point is, this is not abouther, this is about me.
(06:59):
But her withdrawing, sulkingshoulders, kind of looking down,
sighing a lot, checking herphone and not being it was only
four of us, so she's 25% of theconversation was very obvious.
Once again, she gets to do allof that.
(07:19):
I get to look at that socialanxiety that I'm feeling as in
relation to someone's behavior.
Right, it's not about I'm notbeing awkward, it's not
necessarily about introvert orextrovert although I do.
I always forget which is which.
I believe I am an extrovertedintrovert.
(07:40):
There's not a failure on mypart, there's certainly not a
failure on her part.
But labeling it and in thatmoment, me being able to catch a
beat and going, oh, there'sthat social anxiety, gel, it's
okay, right, that is one of thethings that really helps, that I
can call it versus believingwhatever I'm interpreting as
(08:01):
being true and then takingactions from it.
Because then I'm not takingactions from words, I'm taking
actions from what I think she'sthinking or doing or say like
it's insanity.
So first, just name it.
The second is, maybe prepyourself like you're having some
sort of talk.
I've said this before, it's mythree, two, one have three
(08:23):
questions, two people one hourat a time.
So if I was in that circle,based on the content of that
particular conference, I couldhave had two or three.
I conference I could have hadtwo or three.
I mean, I did right.
Have two or three conversationstarters or openers in my pocket
could also be not just aboutthe content but safe areas,
right.
So what's new and good in yourlife?
(08:45):
Tell me what's going on backhome, how are the kids, right.
You could also bring it intosomething that, if that felt
right for you, that's an areawhere you feel comfortable
asking and most people, if youask them to talk about their
personal lives, if you know theyhave children, don't make
assumptions, but if you knowthey have children or they have
a pet, that kind of conversation, a compliment, a question, a
(09:07):
shared experience.
This isn't fake, right?
It's kind of like preparingyour brain so that the anxiety
can come down because you have aplan.
And then I, like I said aboutthe three, two, one, following
through with that.
Don't go to a situationthinking you're going to meet
everyone.
Go in with a goal that I wantto connect with someone or
(09:29):
interesting person.
Sometimes I might even say I'mgoing to connect with people
that have red shirts on, justbecause I need something to
anchor myself to, and thenyou're just going in and having
those questions, right.
So you're anchoring in, you'reprepping yourself and then
you're anchoring in for thattalk.
Then use the pause.
I think it's completely okaythat just because there's
(09:52):
silence or space doesn't meanuh-oh.
I think it's okay to say youknow what, I'm collecting my
thoughts here for a second.
Or, depending on where you areand who you're with, you could
also say you know, sometimes Ifind these events a little
overwhelming.
I'm glad that I'm getting achance to talk to you one-on-one
, that sort of admitting whereyour own vulnerability is that
(10:16):
other person may share it, theymay feel relieved, they get to
respond however they want.
But again, you're showing up,human and real, and that, I mean
, isn't that what we all want?
And then recover with kindnessis, when you leave the event,
really look through what worked,what didn't work, what you
might do differently, andreminding yourself that you
(10:38):
showed up, you tried, that'senough, because it's not always
best to judge how you comeacross.
That's why putting facts onpaper what worked tonight.
What didn't work?
What would I do differently?
So understanding that you can be, as I would say, bold on stage
but sort of tender in thehallway.
(10:58):
Right, you can still be apowerful speaker, you can lead
teams, you can lead in theboardroom.
You don't struggle to makesmall talk.
I struggle because there's somany that introvert in me,
(11:19):
there's so many things usuallygoing around in the room that it
just can feel a little bitoverwhelming and my gorgeous
little neurodiverse brain justkind of gets a little
overwhelmed with that.
But it's okay that you can bein this place of social
anxiousness and still connect.
That's the paradox, right?
Just because you're feelingthat way doesn't mean you can't
(11:40):
make connections.
You are not broken.
I'm going to say you're wiredfor maybe more depth.
I've said a hundred times I'drather be the bartender than be
at the bar.
I want a four top.
I want small connection.
If we're at a party together,I'm going to be in the kitchen,
not because I'm cooking althoughI do have culinary training and
(12:00):
I might be cooking but I'mgoing to be in the kitchen
because for the most partthere's only so many people that
can fit in the kitchen andtherefore I know I'm going to be
able to go deeper with fewerpeople and that's been my gift
right Getting to know people andgoing deep.
That's where my gift rightgetting to know people and going
deep that's where I prefer.
So when I'm In a biggersituation, yeah, sometimes it
(12:21):
feels a little bit weird and alittle bit overwhelming.
It's not about me becomingdifferent, it's Understanding
how I can show up even in thatdiscomfort and accept that
nothing has gone wrong here andit's okay to be a little
uncomfortable, just a little bit, it's okay.
All right, friends, I want tohear from you.
You know, email me at hello, atjillgriffincoachingcom.
(12:43):
Questions, let me hear them.
Comments, feedback.
Do you have social anxiety andhow do you navigate through it
when it's happening in themoment?
I want to hear all of it.
All right until next time.
Embrace possibility, be really,really kind to yourself and
others, and I
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