September 4, 2024 • 31 mins
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What if you could reclaim your power and reshape the narrative of your life? Join me, Sarah Caminiti, as I celebrate a personal milestone on this episode of Epochal Growth. Reflecting on my journey to empowerment, I share how tuning into the universe's signals has guided me to reclaim control and value my self-worth. As a mother, every word and action becomes a seed for future growth, and I'm committed to cultivating a garden of empowerment. This chapter is a heartfelt testament to reclaiming control and celebrating self-worth.
Navigating power dynamics in leadership can be a daunting challenge, especially for women in tech and customer experience sectors. We'll discuss self-advocacy, the biases we confront, and the need for women to reclaim their power while leading authentically. Drawing from my personal experiences, this conversation underscores the importance of entering new roles with confidence and the powerful impact of recognizing your worth. By supporting each other in professional environments, we can dismantle the barriers of discrimination together.
Finally, we explore the subtle ways women often give away their power in professional settings, and the consequences of staying silent. In sectors like customer experience, women frequently feel undervalued and replaceable. I emphasize the importance of gathering extensive data to confidently assert influence and turn challenges into opportunities. This episode is a rallying cry to embrace empowerment, reject self-doubt, and claim the space we deserve. Let's recognize the extraordinary contributions of every listener as we build something incredible together. Join me on this transformative journey in Epochal Growth.
Make sure you've subscribed to Support Human's newsletter! I quote her piece: Happy National Power Rangers Day! - I think a lot about power, in the way that people who’ve been powerless often do. and strongly recommend you read it after you listen to the episode.
“Change will not come if we wait for some other person, or if we wait for some other time. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek.”
- Barack Obama
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah Caminiti (00:07):
Hi listeners, I'm Sarah Caminiti and this is
Epochal Growth.
This is going to be a littlebit different of an episode
because I don't have a guesttoday.
It's just going to be me.
And it's because I've realizedand it's because I've realized
we're almost 20 episodes in andI've never shared what era I
find myself in the universe is afunny thing, I've realized, and
it's because I've realizedwe're almost 20 episodes in and
I've never shared what era Ifind myself in.
(00:28):
The universe is a funny thing.
I've realized this so much morein the last, however many
months since I've been on thisjourney than ever.
And one of the coolest thingsabout the universe, when you
start listening to it, is thatwhen you're on the right path,
when you're doing the rightthing, when you're doing the
right thing, when you're goingoutside of your comfort zone and
you're not sure if any of thismakes sense if you start
(00:50):
listening to the universe,things start telling you to keep
going, keep going, keep askingquestions.
It invites people into yourlife that provide context or
inspiration.
It opens doors forresponsibilities or projects,
initiatives, connections thatnever really seemed like they
(01:14):
were in the cards and I say thisin a not really in the cards,
because it's not even somethingthat was in your orbit as being
something to think about likethis podcast.
I've always been a consumer ofpodcasts, but I never thought of
myself as a potential podcasthost and I'm still learning.
(01:37):
But I'm here and I'm happy tobe here and I'm happy that
you're here.
So, yes, this is the episodewhere I talk about my era and
because of this universe thiscrazy universe it happened in a
time where these people that Iam now connected with are
(01:58):
providing context and insightand confirmation that the things
that I'm thinking about, thatI'm going to be talking about in
this episode, are valid andimportant and they need to be
discussed.
So why not here?
Why not now?
So what era am I in?
(02:19):
I mean, I've been leaving youall on such a cliffhanger.
I'm in the era of empowerment.
If you're a returning listener,you know that I ask the guests
at the end of every episode toshare with me what era they find
themselves in or what era arethey moving into.
For those that are juststarting to listen to Epochal
Growth, welcome, and I'll sharewhy.
(02:43):
This is something that I ask,and it's because the word
epochal is the change or thetransformative event that
ignites a new era.
It's not just a Taylor Swiftreference, I promise, but with
these eras, I think it'simportant because it reminds
ourselves that what has happened, what is happening and what is
going to happen, it's alltemporary.
(03:06):
Whether things are difficult orincredible or uncertain,
tomorrow could be completelydifferent.
When you give yourself theopportunity to reflect on these
eras that either you're in oryou've survived, you provide
yourself this opportunity tothink about what it is that we
truly do have control of, andthat's what we're taking away.
(03:27):
That's how we're defining theseeras and the impact that they
have on our lives.
And when we start thinkingabout control, we have to think
about power.
It's all closely related topower dynamics, because just
about every interaction that wehave, whether we realize it or
not, we're navigating powerdynamics.
When I think back on where I'vebeen and where I came from, I
(03:50):
see how power, or the lackthereof, shaped so many of my
experiences.
I used to just hand out mypower like candy.
I gave too much of it to others.
I let too many people define myworth.
Slowly, I started to figure outhow to filter this feedback so
(04:12):
that I could focus on what trulyhelps me grow instead of
letting this noise dictate mypath and my worth.
Noise is an interesting thing.
Earth Noise is an interestingthing.
It usually happens early inyour life and the people that
are providing this noise don'trealize that it's planting seeds
(04:34):
.
These seeds that impact you foryears and years.
Now that I'm a mom, I thinkabout what it is that my actions
are doing and my words aredoing and the weight of them,
and if they're going to beplanting seeds that are good
seeds or bad seeds, ortemperamental seeds and I have
(04:56):
to be cognizant of that all thetime.
And since I'm thinking a lotabout seeds, I think about the
seeds that were planted in me,because they shape our
perceptions.
I grew up believing that I hadto be thankful just to be in the
presence of powerful people,that it was my responsibility to
make things right when theytreated me poorly and that their
(05:18):
approval was something that Ineeded to earn and that that
approval carried more weightthan just about anything.
That seed grew and it led me todownplay my achievements and
hesitate to take up spaceSomething I kick myself about,
but look back on and want to hugthe person that I was 10 years
(05:39):
ago, seven years ago.
Five years ago is that I didn'tnegotiate my salary.
Ever I didn't take credit formy work in a way that was
celebratory.
I let others define what I wasworth and I believed them.
I was content to stay quiet,and in doing so I didn't even
(06:03):
realize that I was cementing myown limitations.
This wasn't just in myprofessional life, it was in my
personal life too.
I was trying to navigate lifeby others' standards of success,
but I was having this internalbattle because there was
something inside of me that justkept pushing and pushing
against this, but I didn't knowwhat to do with that.
(06:27):
It took me a long time toreally be able to stop and
listen to what it was that myinsides were screaming about for
so long.
Slowly, it started to chip away.
There would be little thingsthat would happen that would
either make me realize I hadbeen naive going into certain
(06:48):
situations, and I learned not tobe naive the next time I found
myself in those situations.
There were things that happenedthat in the moment, I really
beat myself up about.
Maybe even for years I beatmyself up about it, but then,
finally, I was able to look backon it and realize that had
nothing to do with me.
That was the other person.
(07:10):
I'll give you two examples ofsituations that many of us have
found ourselves in Trying to geta promotion and not getting the
promotion Because they saidthat it would take too much work
to replace you.
Okay, that was unexpected.
At first I was proud All right,they're actually acknowledging
(07:31):
my work.
Then I was like wait a second,they're acknowledging my work,
but they're not giving me araise and they're not giving a
promotion, nor are they givingme a path to a promotion.
I just have to sit here.
And so I decided to beproactive and I wrote a guide
for the person that wouldreplace me, so that it wouldn't
be a lot of work, and that feltreally good.
I started to think about thelong game.
(07:54):
I started to think about how Icould prepare myself for these
difficult conversations in thefuture.
A handful of years after thatpromotion situation, I was
grossly underpaid Folks in CX.
We all know what that feelslike.
I took what I learned from thatpromotion situation and I came
prepared.
I researched, I researchedlocal salary bands, I researched
(08:17):
job descriptions any curveballI was prepared for.
So I went out for lunch with myboss and I gave him the binder
that I created, color coded ofcourse, that laid out all of the
reasons why I need to be makingmore money for the work that
I'm doing, and he didn't askquestions.
(08:37):
All of those curveballs Iprepared myself for did not work
come into play.
He just laughed at me and toldme no, okay.
Well, now I am reminded thatpower is defined by those that
hold it.
I did not have control of thatsituation.
There was nothing I could haveprepared to change the outcome
(08:58):
of that situation.
I knew then that I needed toreclaim my power and lead on my
own terms, and so I startedlooking for the next space.
Then the next space came, and Iwas so excited.
I was so proud of myself foractually being able to achieve
what I knew I could achieve.
I was so excited I didn't readthe fine print, I didn't think
(09:21):
twice about the strange benefitspackage that existed or didn't
exist, however you want tophrase it and I entered the
space carefully.
I was so grateful, I was soeager to please.
I didn't want to rufflefeathers, and I was never taken
seriously.
I was a leader, I was anexecutive, I was an executive,
(09:52):
but I really wasn't.
And now I see that a lot ofthat was in my control and how I
entered the space.
But even through all of this, Istill didn't allow myself to
really feel like what I wasfeeling was valid.
I figured I was probably justoverreacting.
This is normal.
I've never been in one of thesesituations.
It's normal.
I just have to power through it.
I have to try different things.
I have to bend over backwards.
I have to show them whathappens when you're curious,
(10:14):
when you don't make assumptions,when you build inclusive teams.
And I did that for years andnothing changed.
And then one day I justhappened to vent about what I
was going through to someone andthey validated every single
feeling that I had.
I no longer felt crazy, I nolonger felt ungrateful, I felt
(10:36):
heard, I felt seen and I feltempowered to change the
situation that I was in.
We are all going to findourselves in situations where
maybe on paper, things should begreat.
But if they don't feel greatanymore and you've tried your
(10:57):
best and it still hasn't changed, then you should feel really
good about looking elsewhere.
You don't have to stay in thosesituations where you're not
respected, there's no growth,you're not included in
conversations You're not allowedto take up the space that you
(11:17):
deserve.
So I entered into the wild jobmarket and I had to have these
job interviews where I wasconfident.
I had to talk about myaccomplishments.
I had to remind myself over andover again why I know I am very
good at what I do.
I spent time reflecting and Iwrote everything into some sort
(11:37):
of Jerry Maguire stylemanuscript.
I figured out how to articulatemy thoughts in a way that came
across probably a little bitless manic than it did at first,
but I still wasn't loud, I wasstill very quiet, I was
connecting with people quietly,but these connections, these
conversations, allowed me tostart seeing trends and they
(12:01):
allowed me to realize that thenext time I need to enter into
my next role, proud andconfident and empowered, because
I deserve to enter a space thatway and holy cow listeners I
mean not to jump the gun here,but when you advocate for
(12:24):
yourself, when you allowyourself to advocate for
yourself and do it confidentlyand survive it, it is a pretty
great feeling.
It is a pretty great feelingbecause now you're entering into
this new role where you'vealready told them that you know
your value, you know what you'reworth.
No one else is going to tellyou what your worth is.
(12:45):
You've defined it and you ownit.
It's yours.
That's powerful.
You really only get one shotwith that with a job which is a
bummer, but when you do it,you're able to enter into these
spaces and speak up faster, befirm and own your success, and
that is a very, very powerfuland wonderful feeling.
(13:10):
Getting to this point was ajourney.
I'm 36, and it all kind ofstarted to click last year, but
really didn't happen until I wasforced into this public space.
And I needed to be forced intothis public space.
If I just continued to dip mytoes into different things and
(13:33):
then scurry back because Ididn't want to rock the boat, I
didn't want to offend anyonethat I knew in the fourth grade,
I didn't want to.
I didn't want to fail However,failure is defined None of this
would be happening.
But when I started to havethese conversations and I
started to notice a trend thatso many of us were feeling the
(13:53):
same way, so many of us were notadvocating for ourselves, so
many of us did not feel powerfulwhen we deserve to feel
powerful.
I felt powerful enough tocontinue to talk about it.
And now bias and discriminationand crap happens on so many
levels, to so many people indifferent ways, and what I'm
(14:16):
talking about, what I'm going totalk about is my lived
experience.
I am a woman in leadership inthe tech space and I am also a
leader in the customerexperience space, and I am so
excited to be in a positionwhere I can empower other women
and other CX professionals tolead the way that they want to
(14:37):
lead, to build teams the waythat they know is the right way
to build teams and to celebratethemselves as much as they
possibly can.
Women have had those seedsplanted in them from a very,
very early age that we have toearn the space that we occupy,
(14:58):
and the criteria for earning itis constantly changing.
Meanwhile, the men around usare granted this space
automatically.
They don't even think about it.
We find ourselves in thesesituations where we
intercompetently, we assert ourpower in a way that is
(15:20):
respectful.
We check all the boxes, we doour due diligence so that we
make sure we don't offendanybody, and we still offend
people how, they'll never tellus, but we still offend them
Because there are words that arethrown around about women very
easily and they are so heavy,but also so vague, difficult,
(15:44):
aggressive, demanding,controlling, angry, crazy Bitch.
Difficult, aggressive, demanding, controlling, angry, crazy
bitch.
And usually, when those wordsare expressed about a woman in a
leadership role, she's thentold that she needs to work on
how she communicates oftenwithout context, but still it's
her responsibility to figure itout.
(16:05):
And isn't it funny how theresult of this ambiguous
accusation is that the woman nowhas to think harder than she
already is about not beingaggressive, not being difficult,
up less space.
She's probably a little lesscompetent in what she's saying,
(16:28):
she's a little quieter, shedoesn't speak up as quickly or
she looks around her and hopesthat someone else chimes in so
that she can say yeah, I totallyagree.
And she gives away her powereach time, whether she realizes
it or not.
Anytime you ask for help,anytime you throw out an idea in
(16:49):
some way, shape or form, youare giving away a little bit of
your power.
If you are not considered anequal in the first place, you're
going to have those men thatare quick to save you if
someone's speaking over you oryou're having a hard time being
heard, and then the men arecelebrated for being a champion
(17:12):
of a woman who was unable toassert herself in the situation
in the same way that he was thensuccessful.
And now you owe the mansomething because he saved you.
Or when a man repeats the samepoint that you've been trying to
make, but this time he's notlabeled aggressive, he's praised
(17:36):
.
And then you have the womenthat also use these same words
against one another.
And when you really think aboutit, it's understandable,
because remember those seeds.
Those seeds also told us thatthere's only room for one of us.
So if you are that one woman inthe room, it means there are
others that didn't get thechance and there's a line of
women that are waiting to takeyour place.
(17:57):
Then you have the others thatare trying to figure out how to
climb the ladder, and it's sodisheartening to see women in
their 30s or older who are solidin their careers, still
believing that it's a good thingif their boss treats them like
a careers, still believing thatit's a good thing if their boss
treats them like a daughter,thinking that it's the only way
to be heard or seen.
But the reality is, thisdynamic ensures that you're
(18:18):
never going to be takenseriously.
You're never going to be seenas equals.
You will always be looked downupon, because that is the power
dynamic that was created.
And in all of this, too manywomen can't even bring
themselves to say out loud thatthis is complete bullshit.
They stay silent because theydon't want to risk being labeled
(18:39):
.
They don't want to riskjeopardizing the progress that
they've made over the years tobe respected.
But the quieter that we remain,the more power we are giving to
the people that are trying tomake sure that we are not
powerful.
At the very beginning, Imentioned the universe working
in interesting ways, and one ofthose ways was seeing Stephanie
(19:00):
Lundberg, with Support HumanNewsletter, publish a wonderful
piece about power dynamics, andshe defined it in such a
wonderful way, so much betterthan my ramblings ever could,
she said.
I think what powerful peopleare really afraid of is that
those other people will somehowrealize that they are not in
fact as powerless as they firstappear.
(19:21):
If we stay quiet, how is anyonegoing to realize that we are
more powerful than we giveourselves credit for?
If we think that we're going tobe replaced?
If we think that we are goingto be labeled as difficult,
we're going to be told thatwe're negative or we complain.
Why would we say anything.
We say it because if we don't,nothing changes.
(19:45):
This extends also to theprofessionals in the CX
community.
We have been told for yearsthat anyone could do our job.
We're now being told that AIcould do our job so much better
than we ever could.
What we are able to do is not askill that we're replaceable,
that we should be grateful to beinvited to a conversation about
(20:07):
product development.
We should be grateful that westill have a job.
If we said anything inopposition to anyone that held
any level of power, they alreadytold us that we were just going
to be replaced.
So why would we rock the boat?
So what do we do?
Take on more work?
We think it's a visibilityissue.
(20:30):
We think that we aren'tarticulating the results well
enough.
We keep saying yes and nothingchanges.
And then what?
We're so busy and we're sooverwhelmed that we can't see
what we're accomplishing.
We can't even recognize howlittle the returns are.
We lead quietly.
Something that I have learned asa leader in the CX space is
(20:51):
just like being prepared forthose salary conversations.
Gives you that sense ofempowerment.
The same applies to CX data anobnoxious amount of data,
because you are able to play thelong game on levels that you
didn't even really think about.
To play the long game on levelsthat you didn't even really
(21:13):
think about.
If you start extracting way toomuch data as soon as you
possibly can, then you're goingto be able to insert yourself
into these conversations muchmore confidently.
You are going to have thereceipts.
You're going to have months ofreceipts.
You're going to be noticingtrends that impact product
development in ways that no oneever thought about.
(21:35):
And it's not to have an I toldyou so moment, it's not to point
fingers, but you're going to beable to know that you are doing
everything that you can to besuccessful.
Be successful.
You are saying the things thatyou need to say.
You are collecting the datathat you need to collect.
(21:55):
You are asking questions.
You're being curious.
You're not making assumptionsand then at the end, if it
doesn't work out, if theycontinue to not ask you for the
information that would betterhelp develop a product, it had
nothing to do with you.
You did what you needed to do.
Be proud of yourself and maybestart looking for another job.
(22:18):
It is this CX community that Ihave been able to find my voice.
What started as answering asimple question in one of these
support communities turned intoan interview, and that interview
turned into being asked to joinpodcasts.
It turned into being introducedto people that were excited to
(22:41):
talk to me about things thatwere equally as passionate as I
am about making a difference,and it turned into this podcast.
When I finally embracedempowerment and how it could
help others, everything changed.
I stopped letting self-doubtand external noise dictate my
path.
I stopped letting those replaysof past conversations take up
(23:07):
brain space.
The weight was lifted off of myshoulders because I finally was
able to understand how I canown my own success, how I can be
proud of the work that Iproduce and the impact that I
can have on others.
But it ends there.
So, listeners, you're thinkingabout your place in your
(23:41):
professional world and you'rethinking about how do I even do
this?
How do I even start to thinkabout owning my power, or
thinking about power, orquestioning power, or just
feeling empowered?
And I get it.
I totally get it.
But try something.
Be a little bit more curious.
If you receive an answer thatdoesn't sit right, ask questions
(24:05):
.
Try to understand why.
If you understand why, then youcan figure out how to do it
differently next time.
Another way is when you enterinto a conversation, don't make
assumptions.
Remember that that's a personon the other side and that
person is trying to figure theirown stuff out.
They're probably not trying tohurt you or mess up your job or
(24:32):
your career or your project oryour team.
So be empathetic and, again, becurious.
You never know what you're goingto find out and slowly,
starting to put yourself intothose situations where you want
to know more about a situation,about a person, you'll start to
(24:55):
understand the boundary lines,you'll start to be able to
define your own boundary linesand you'll start to learn more
about the space that you arealready taking up.
And, before you know it, you'regoing to be looking around and
you're going to be just feelinga little bit more confident
because you understand things alittle bit differently.
(25:16):
You've built relationships thataren't based in trying to
achieve something.
It's just based in anunderstanding that you're both
trying to figure this out too,and it'll take time and it'll be
a slow crawl.
But just keep asking why?
See what happens when you askwhy?
(25:40):
And sometimes those answers aregoing to suck, and then you may
start asking yourself why am Ihere?
What's the point?
And then you may start askingyourself why am I here?
(26:06):
What's the point?
What am I doing?
And that's okay too, becausethrough that, you're starting to
define your own boundaries andyou're starting to define your
best.
Those founders that wereinclusive and transparent at the
beginning, that suddenly startclosing the door on everything
and become everything that theyswore they would never be,
they're probably really scaredthat they're losing their power,
so they're hoarding their powerand they don't know what else
(26:27):
to do.
The women that are being waymore competitive than they need
to don't realize what can happenif they just start talking to
each other.
Leaders that know that you canbe kind and you can be inclusive
and you can be transparent andachieve incredible things need
to realize that so many otherleaders are doing the same thing
(26:48):
and they are successful in it.
It is so scary to try thingsespecially when it's related to
our livelihood, like our careersare without knowing that the
results are guaranteed to besuccessful, especially when
you've been told so many timesthat if you fail, you'll be
replaced.
But, listeners, I am asking youto trust yourself, find a
(27:13):
community, be vulnerable and askquestions.
End your day proud of what yougave to the world, what you gave
to your team or what you gaveto your customers, and there's
going to be days that you fail.
Learn something from that.
That's the best you can do.
You don't owe your job anythingmore than what is on your job
(27:36):
description, and your job doesnot owe you anything other than
paying you for doing what is onthat job description.
If you do not feel respected,if you don't feel like you are
able to reach your fullpotential, if you feel like you
have checked all of your boxesand it's not going anywhere,
there is a place where you willfind what you need.
(27:56):
Power dynamics are all around us.
We have so little control overhow others are going to react,
how they are going to choose tomove forward with different
things, but what we can controlis ourselves and how we react to
things and how we internalizethings and how we learn from
(28:19):
things and also how we sharethings.
I am now in an era where Iproudly take up space, I
celebrate my values, I lead withconviction and I'm notessing my
worth.
Empowerment isn't just aboutlifting myself up.
I'm able to advocate for othersand lift them up as well.
(28:39):
That's the great thing aboutthis podcast.
Every chance I get, I celebratethe people that are around me
and I want them to walk awayfrom our conversations feeling
proud, take some of that weightof responsibility that wasn't
supposed to be theirs to beginwith off of their shoulders.
It's incredible to see howthese small, seemingly
(29:00):
insignificant moments have builtup to this point where I can
help others find their ownempowerment.
Empowerment is owning your ownsuccess and it's advocating for
yourself.
Over the years, I've built thistoolbox of skills to prepare
and to be clear about myintentions and to act with
respect, but when those in powermake decisions, I know that
(29:21):
I've done my part and that's allthat I can control.
I have a lofty dream for thisera, and it's lofty for a reason
.
If I diminish this dream tosomething smaller, then I'm just
diminishing myself.
I'm diminishing the women thatare around me.
I'm diminishing the potentialof those that are coming up
(29:43):
after me.
I'm diminishing the CXcommunity.
I'm diminishing what we'recapable of.
It's time to remind people oftheir worth and encourage them
to be a little bit louder and alittle bit bolder.
I don't want the nextgeneration of professionals or
those that are pivoting, my kids, when they start looking for
roles, to feel as constrained asI did, because we're capable of
(30:06):
so much more than we are oftenled to believe.
I'm sick of it.
When I stopped listening to thenoise and I trusted myself,
doors opened.
More people started asking meto speak up, validating my
approach to leadership or tocustomer experience.
This journey wasn't somethingthat I'd ever planned, but it's
(30:27):
exactly where I'm supposed to be.
I've spent my career supportingothers and now I see it's
brought me here.
Yeah, I'm juggling a lot.
Yep, I'm dropping some ballsevery now and then, but I am so
excited.
This is the most epochal timeof my life.
(30:49):
Listeners, every single one ofyou deserves to be recognized.
You deserve to be celebratedand valued for your
contributions.
You have earned your space,whether you believe it or not.
Lean into your community.
Lean into places like ElevateCX, if you're part of the CX
community, because they willremind you that you have earned
(31:12):
this space.
If we work together, we'regoing to create something that's
so incredible.
So let's stop justifying why wedon't deserve more and just
start claiming it.
Use your voice, take up space,celebrate what you bring to the
table.
This is my era of empowerment,and I invite you to step into
(31:33):
yours, because together we'regoing to build something that's
truly extraordinary.
I am so happy to be here and Iam so thrilled that you're here
with me.
I'm Sarah Caminiti.
This is Epochal Growth.
I can't wait to see you soon.
Hi listeners, I'm Sarah Caminiti and this is
Epochal Growth.
This is going to be a littlebit different of an episode
because I don't have a guesttoday.
It's just going to be me.
And it's because I've realizedand it's because I've realized
we're almost 20 episodes in andI've never shared what era I
find myself in the universe is afunny thing, I've realized, and
it's because I've realizedwe're almost 20 episodes in and
I've never shared what era Ifind myself in.
(00:28):
The universe is a funny thing.
I've realized this so much morein the last, however many
months since I've been on thisjourney than ever.
And one of the coolest thingsabout the universe, when you
start listening to it, is thatwhen you're on the right path,
when you're doing the rightthing, when you're doing the
right thing, when you're goingoutside of your comfort zone and
you're not sure if any of thismakes sense if you start
(00:50):
listening to the universe,things start telling you to keep
going, keep going, keep askingquestions.
It invites people into yourlife that provide context or
inspiration.
It opens doors forresponsibilities or projects,
initiatives, connections thatnever really seemed like they
(01:14):
were in the cards and I say thisin a not really in the cards,
because it's not even somethingthat was in your orbit as being
something to think about likethis podcast.
I've always been a consumer ofpodcasts, but I never thought of
myself as a potential podcasthost and I'm still learning.
(01:37):
But I'm here and I'm happy tobe here and I'm happy that
you're here.
So, yes, this is the episodewhere I talk about my era and
because of this universe thiscrazy universe it happened in a
time where these people that Iam now connected with are
(01:58):
providing context and insightand confirmation that the things
that I'm thinking about, thatI'm going to be talking about in
this episode, are valid andimportant and they need to be
discussed.
So why not here?
Why not now?
So what era am I in?
(02:19):
I mean, I've been leaving youall on such a cliffhanger.
I'm in the era of empowerment.
If you're a returning listener,you know that I ask the guests
at the end of every episode toshare with me what era they find
themselves in or what era arethey moving into.
For those that are juststarting to listen to Epochal
Growth, welcome, and I'll sharewhy.
(02:43):
This is something that I ask,and it's because the word
epochal is the change or thetransformative event that
ignites a new era.
It's not just a Taylor Swiftreference, I promise, but with
these eras, I think it'simportant because it reminds
ourselves that what has happened, what is happening and what is
going to happen, it's alltemporary.
(03:06):
Whether things are difficult orincredible or uncertain,
tomorrow could be completelydifferent.
When you give yourself theopportunity to reflect on these
eras that either you're in oryou've survived, you provide
yourself this opportunity tothink about what it is that we
truly do have control of, andthat's what we're taking away.
(03:27):
That's how we're defining theseeras and the impact that they
have on our lives.
And when we start thinkingabout control, we have to think
about power.
It's all closely related topower dynamics, because just
about every interaction that wehave, whether we realize it or
not, we're navigating powerdynamics.
When I think back on where I'vebeen and where I came from, I
(03:50):
see how power, or the lackthereof, shaped so many of my
experiences.
I used to just hand out mypower like candy.
I gave too much of it to others.
I let too many people define myworth.
Slowly, I started to figure outhow to filter this feedback so
(04:12):
that I could focus on what trulyhelps me grow instead of
letting this noise dictate mypath and my worth.
Noise is an interesting thing.
Earth Noise is an interestingthing.
It usually happens early inyour life and the people that
are providing this noise don'trealize that it's planting seeds
(04:34):
.
These seeds that impact you foryears and years.
Now that I'm a mom, I thinkabout what it is that my actions
are doing and my words aredoing and the weight of them,
and if they're going to beplanting seeds that are good
seeds or bad seeds, ortemperamental seeds and I have
(04:56):
to be cognizant of that all thetime.
And since I'm thinking a lotabout seeds, I think about the
seeds that were planted in me,because they shape our
perceptions.
I grew up believing that I hadto be thankful just to be in the
presence of powerful people,that it was my responsibility to
make things right when theytreated me poorly and that their
(05:18):
approval was something that Ineeded to earn and that that
approval carried more weightthan just about anything.
That seed grew and it led me todownplay my achievements and
hesitate to take up spaceSomething I kick myself about,
but look back on and want to hugthe person that I was 10 years
(05:39):
ago, seven years ago.
Five years ago is that I didn'tnegotiate my salary.
Ever I didn't take credit formy work in a way that was
celebratory.
I let others define what I wasworth and I believed them.
I was content to stay quiet,and in doing so I didn't even
(06:03):
realize that I was cementing myown limitations.
This wasn't just in myprofessional life, it was in my
personal life too.
I was trying to navigate lifeby others' standards of success,
but I was having this internalbattle because there was
something inside of me that justkept pushing and pushing
against this, but I didn't knowwhat to do with that.
(06:27):
It took me a long time toreally be able to stop and
listen to what it was that myinsides were screaming about for
so long.
Slowly, it started to chip away.
There would be little thingsthat would happen that would
either make me realize I hadbeen naive going into certain
(06:48):
situations, and I learned not tobe naive the next time I found
myself in those situations.
There were things that happenedthat in the moment, I really
beat myself up about.
Maybe even for years I beatmyself up about it, but then,
finally, I was able to look backon it and realize that had
nothing to do with me.
That was the other person.
(07:10):
I'll give you two examples ofsituations that many of us have
found ourselves in Trying to geta promotion and not getting the
promotion Because they saidthat it would take too much work
to replace you.
Okay, that was unexpected.
At first I was proud All right,they're actually acknowledging
(07:31):
my work.
Then I was like wait a second,they're acknowledging my work,
but they're not giving me araise and they're not giving a
promotion, nor are they givingme a path to a promotion.
I just have to sit here.
And so I decided to beproactive and I wrote a guide
for the person that wouldreplace me, so that it wouldn't
be a lot of work, and that feltreally good.
I started to think about thelong game.
(07:54):
I started to think about how Icould prepare myself for these
difficult conversations in thefuture.
A handful of years after thatpromotion situation, I was
grossly underpaid Folks in CX.
We all know what that feelslike.
I took what I learned from thatpromotion situation and I came
prepared.
I researched, I researchedlocal salary bands, I researched
(08:17):
job descriptions any curveballI was prepared for.
So I went out for lunch with myboss and I gave him the binder
that I created, color coded ofcourse, that laid out all of the
reasons why I need to be makingmore money for the work that
I'm doing, and he didn't askquestions.
(08:37):
All of those curveballs Iprepared myself for did not work
come into play.
He just laughed at me and toldme no, okay.
Well, now I am reminded thatpower is defined by those that
hold it.
I did not have control of thatsituation.
There was nothing I could haveprepared to change the outcome
(08:58):
of that situation.
I knew then that I needed toreclaim my power and lead on my
own terms, and so I startedlooking for the next space.
Then the next space came, and Iwas so excited.
I was so proud of myself foractually being able to achieve
what I knew I could achieve.
I was so excited I didn't readthe fine print, I didn't think
(09:21):
twice about the strange benefitspackage that existed or didn't
exist, however you want tophrase it and I entered the
space carefully.
I was so grateful, I was soeager to please.
I didn't want to rufflefeathers, and I was never taken
seriously.
I was a leader, I was anexecutive, I was an executive,
(09:52):
but I really wasn't.
And now I see that a lot ofthat was in my control and how I
entered the space.
But even through all of this, Istill didn't allow myself to
really feel like what I wasfeeling was valid.
I figured I was probably justoverreacting.
This is normal.
I've never been in one of thesesituations.
It's normal.
I just have to power through it.
I have to try different things.
I have to bend over backwards.
I have to show them whathappens when you're curious,
(10:14):
when you don't make assumptions,when you build inclusive teams.
And I did that for years andnothing changed.
And then one day I justhappened to vent about what I
was going through to someone andthey validated every single
feeling that I had.
I no longer felt crazy, I nolonger felt ungrateful, I felt
(10:36):
heard, I felt seen and I feltempowered to change the
situation that I was in.
We are all going to findourselves in situations where
maybe on paper, things should begreat.
But if they don't feel greatanymore and you've tried your
(10:57):
best and it still hasn't changed, then you should feel really
good about looking elsewhere.
You don't have to stay in thosesituations where you're not
respected, there's no growth,you're not included in
conversations You're not allowedto take up the space that you
(11:17):
deserve.
So I entered into the wild jobmarket and I had to have these
job interviews where I wasconfident.
I had to talk about myaccomplishments.
I had to remind myself over andover again why I know I am very
good at what I do.
I spent time reflecting and Iwrote everything into some sort
(11:37):
of Jerry Maguire stylemanuscript.
I figured out how to articulatemy thoughts in a way that came
across probably a little bitless manic than it did at first,
but I still wasn't loud, I wasstill very quiet, I was
connecting with people quietly,but these connections, these
conversations, allowed me tostart seeing trends and they
(12:01):
allowed me to realize that thenext time I need to enter into
my next role, proud andconfident and empowered, because
I deserve to enter a space thatway and holy cow listeners I
mean not to jump the gun here,but when you advocate for
(12:24):
yourself, when you allowyourself to advocate for
yourself and do it confidentlyand survive it, it is a pretty
great feeling.
It is a pretty great feelingbecause now you're entering into
this new role where you'vealready told them that you know
your value, you know what you'reworth.
No one else is going to tellyou what your worth is.
(12:45):
You've defined it and you ownit.
It's yours.
That's powerful.
You really only get one shotwith that with a job which is a
bummer, but when you do it,you're able to enter into these
spaces and speak up faster, befirm and own your success, and
that is a very, very powerfuland wonderful feeling.
(13:10):
Getting to this point was ajourney.
I'm 36, and it all kind ofstarted to click last year, but
really didn't happen until I wasforced into this public space.
And I needed to be forced intothis public space.
If I just continued to dip mytoes into different things and
(13:33):
then scurry back because Ididn't want to rock the boat, I
didn't want to offend anyonethat I knew in the fourth grade,
I didn't want to.
I didn't want to fail However,failure is defined None of this
would be happening.
But when I started to havethese conversations and I
started to notice a trend thatso many of us were feeling the
(13:53):
same way, so many of us were notadvocating for ourselves, so
many of us did not feel powerfulwhen we deserve to feel
powerful.
I felt powerful enough tocontinue to talk about it.
And now bias and discriminationand crap happens on so many
levels, to so many people indifferent ways, and what I'm
(14:16):
talking about, what I'm going totalk about is my lived
experience.
I am a woman in leadership inthe tech space and I am also a
leader in the customerexperience space, and I am so
excited to be in a positionwhere I can empower other women
and other CX professionals tolead the way that they want to
(14:37):
lead, to build teams the waythat they know is the right way
to build teams and to celebratethemselves as much as they
possibly can.
Women have had those seedsplanted in them from a very,
very early age that we have toearn the space that we occupy,
(14:58):
and the criteria for earning itis constantly changing.
Meanwhile, the men around usare granted this space
automatically.
They don't even think about it.
We find ourselves in thesesituations where we
intercompetently, we assert ourpower in a way that is
(15:20):
respectful.
We check all the boxes, we doour due diligence so that we
make sure we don't offendanybody, and we still offend
people how, they'll never tellus, but we still offend them
Because there are words that arethrown around about women very
easily and they are so heavy,but also so vague, difficult,
(15:44):
aggressive, demanding,controlling, angry, crazy Bitch.
Difficult, aggressive, demanding, controlling, angry, crazy
bitch.
And usually, when those wordsare expressed about a woman in a
leadership role, she's thentold that she needs to work on
how she communicates oftenwithout context, but still it's
her responsibility to figure itout.
(16:05):
And isn't it funny how theresult of this ambiguous
accusation is that the woman nowhas to think harder than she
already is about not beingaggressive, not being difficult,
up less space.
She's probably a little lesscompetent in what she's saying,
(16:28):
she's a little quieter, shedoesn't speak up as quickly or
she looks around her and hopesthat someone else chimes in so
that she can say yeah, I totallyagree.
And she gives away her powereach time, whether she realizes
it or not.
Anytime you ask for help,anytime you throw out an idea in
(16:49):
some way, shape or form, youare giving away a little bit of
your power.
If you are not considered anequal in the first place, you're
going to have those men thatare quick to save you if
someone's speaking over you oryou're having a hard time being
heard, and then the men arecelebrated for being a champion
(17:12):
of a woman who was unable toassert herself in the situation
in the same way that he was thensuccessful.
And now you owe the mansomething because he saved you.
Or when a man repeats the samepoint that you've been trying to
make, but this time he's notlabeled aggressive, he's praised
(17:36):
.
And then you have the womenthat also use these same words
against one another.
And when you really think aboutit, it's understandable,
because remember those seeds.
Those seeds also told us thatthere's only room for one of us.
So if you are that one woman inthe room, it means there are
others that didn't get thechance and there's a line of
women that are waiting to takeyour place.
(17:57):
Then you have the others thatare trying to figure out how to
climb the ladder, and it's sodisheartening to see women in
their 30s or older who are solidin their careers, still
believing that it's a good thingif their boss treats them like
a careers, still believing thatit's a good thing if their boss
treats them like a daughter,thinking that it's the only way
to be heard or seen.
But the reality is, thisdynamic ensures that you're
(18:18):
never going to be takenseriously.
You're never going to be seenas equals.
You will always be looked downupon, because that is the power
dynamic that was created.
And in all of this, too manywomen can't even bring
themselves to say out loud thatthis is complete bullshit.
They stay silent because theydon't want to risk being labeled
(18:39):
.
They don't want to riskjeopardizing the progress that
they've made over the years tobe respected.
But the quieter that we remain,the more power we are giving to
the people that are trying tomake sure that we are not
powerful.
At the very beginning, Imentioned the universe working
in interesting ways, and one ofthose ways was seeing Stephanie
(19:00):
Lundberg, with Support HumanNewsletter, publish a wonderful
piece about power dynamics, andshe defined it in such a
wonderful way, so much betterthan my ramblings ever could,
she said.
I think what powerful peopleare really afraid of is that
those other people will somehowrealize that they are not in
fact as powerless as they firstappear.
(19:21):
If we stay quiet, how is anyonegoing to realize that we are
more powerful than we giveourselves credit for?
If we think that we're going tobe replaced?
If we think that we are goingto be labeled as difficult,
we're going to be told thatwe're negative or we complain.
Why would we say anything.
We say it because if we don't,nothing changes.
(19:45):
This extends also to theprofessionals in the CX
community.
We have been told for yearsthat anyone could do our job.
We're now being told that AIcould do our job so much better
than we ever could.
What we are able to do is not askill that we're replaceable,
that we should be grateful to beinvited to a conversation about
(20:07):
product development.
We should be grateful that westill have a job.
If we said anything inopposition to anyone that held
any level of power, they alreadytold us that we were just going
to be replaced.
So why would we rock the boat?
So what do we do?
Take on more work?
We think it's a visibilityissue.
(20:30):
We think that we aren'tarticulating the results well
enough.
We keep saying yes and nothingchanges.
And then what?
We're so busy and we're sooverwhelmed that we can't see
what we're accomplishing.
We can't even recognize howlittle the returns are.
We lead quietly.
Something that I have learned asa leader in the CX space is
(20:51):
just like being prepared forthose salary conversations.
Gives you that sense ofempowerment.
The same applies to CX data anobnoxious amount of data,
because you are able to play thelong game on levels that you
didn't even really think about.
To play the long game on levelsthat you didn't even really
(21:13):
think about.
If you start extracting way toomuch data as soon as you
possibly can, then you're goingto be able to insert yourself
into these conversations muchmore confidently.
You are going to have thereceipts.
You're going to have months ofreceipts.
You're going to be noticingtrends that impact product
development in ways that no oneever thought about.
(21:35):
And it's not to have an I toldyou so moment, it's not to point
fingers, but you're going to beable to know that you are doing
everything that you can to besuccessful.
Be successful.
You are saying the things thatyou need to say.
You are collecting the datathat you need to collect.
(21:55):
You are asking questions.
You're being curious.
You're not making assumptionsand then at the end, if it
doesn't work out, if theycontinue to not ask you for the
information that would betterhelp develop a product, it had
nothing to do with you.
You did what you needed to do.
Be proud of yourself and maybestart looking for another job.
(22:18):
It is this CX community that Ihave been able to find my voice.
What started as answering asimple question in one of these
support communities turned intoan interview, and that interview
turned into being asked to joinpodcasts.
It turned into being introducedto people that were excited to
(22:41):
talk to me about things thatwere equally as passionate as I
am about making a difference,and it turned into this podcast.
When I finally embracedempowerment and how it could
help others, everything changed.
I stopped letting self-doubtand external noise dictate my
path.
I stopped letting those replaysof past conversations take up
(23:07):
brain space.
The weight was lifted off of myshoulders because I finally was
able to understand how I canown my own success, how I can be
proud of the work that Iproduce and the impact that I
can have on others.
But it ends there.
So, listeners, you're thinkingabout your place in your
(23:41):
professional world and you'rethinking about how do I even do
this?
How do I even start to thinkabout owning my power, or
thinking about power, orquestioning power, or just
feeling empowered?
And I get it.
I totally get it.
But try something.
Be a little bit more curious.
If you receive an answer thatdoesn't sit right, ask questions
(24:05):
.
Try to understand why.
If you understand why, then youcan figure out how to do it
differently next time.
Another way is when you enterinto a conversation, don't make
assumptions.
Remember that that's a personon the other side and that
person is trying to figure theirown stuff out.
They're probably not trying tohurt you or mess up your job or
(24:32):
your career or your project oryour team.
So be empathetic and, again, becurious.
You never know what you're goingto find out and slowly,
starting to put yourself intothose situations where you want
to know more about a situation,about a person, you'll start to
(24:55):
understand the boundary lines,you'll start to be able to
define your own boundary linesand you'll start to learn more
about the space that you arealready taking up.
And, before you know it, you'regoing to be looking around and
you're going to be just feelinga little bit more confident
because you understand things alittle bit differently.
(25:16):
You've built relationships thataren't based in trying to
achieve something.
It's just based in anunderstanding that you're both
trying to figure this out too,and it'll take time and it'll be
a slow crawl.
But just keep asking why?
See what happens when you askwhy?
(25:40):
And sometimes those answers aregoing to suck, and then you may
start asking yourself why am Ihere?
What's the point?
And then you may start askingyourself why am I here?
(26:06):
What's the point?
What am I doing?
And that's okay too, becausethrough that, you're starting to
define your own boundaries andyou're starting to define your
best.
Those founders that wereinclusive and transparent at the
beginning, that suddenly startclosing the door on everything
and become everything that theyswore they would never be,
they're probably really scaredthat they're losing their power,
so they're hoarding their powerand they don't know what else
(26:27):
to do.
The women that are being waymore competitive than they need
to don't realize what can happenif they just start talking to
each other.
Leaders that know that you canbe kind and you can be inclusive
and you can be transparent andachieve incredible things need
to realize that so many otherleaders are doing the same thing
(26:48):
and they are successful in it.
It is so scary to try thingsespecially when it's related to
our livelihood, like our careersare without knowing that the
results are guaranteed to besuccessful, especially when
you've been told so many timesthat if you fail, you'll be
replaced.
But, listeners, I am asking youto trust yourself, find a
(27:13):
community, be vulnerable and askquestions.
End your day proud of what yougave to the world, what you gave
to your team or what you gaveto your customers, and there's
going to be days that you fail.
Learn something from that.
That's the best you can do.
You don't owe your job anythingmore than what is on your job
(27:36):
description, and your job doesnot owe you anything other than
paying you for doing what is onthat job description.
If you do not feel respected,if you don't feel like you are
able to reach your fullpotential, if you feel like you
have checked all of your boxesand it's not going anywhere,
there is a place where you willfind what you need.
(27:56):
Power dynamics are all around us.
We have so little control overhow others are going to react,
how they are going to choose tomove forward with different
things, but what we can controlis ourselves and how we react to
things and how we internalizethings and how we learn from
(28:19):
things and also how we sharethings.
I am now in an era where Iproudly take up space, I
celebrate my values, I lead withconviction and I'm notessing my
worth.
Empowerment isn't just aboutlifting myself up.
I'm able to advocate for othersand lift them up as well.
(28:39):
That's the great thing aboutthis podcast.
Every chance I get, I celebratethe people that are around me
and I want them to walk awayfrom our conversations feeling
proud, take some of that weightof responsibility that wasn't
supposed to be theirs to beginwith off of their shoulders.
It's incredible to see howthese small, seemingly
(29:00):
insignificant moments have builtup to this point where I can
help others find their ownempowerment.
Empowerment is owning your ownsuccess and it's advocating for
yourself.
Over the years, I've built thistoolbox of skills to prepare
and to be clear about myintentions and to act with
respect, but when those in powermake decisions, I know that
(29:21):
I've done my part and that's allthat I can control.
I have a lofty dream for thisera, and it's lofty for a reason
.
If I diminish this dream tosomething smaller, then I'm just
diminishing myself.
I'm diminishing the women thatare around me.
I'm diminishing the potentialof those that are coming up
(29:43):
after me.
I'm diminishing the CXcommunity.
I'm diminishing what we'recapable of.
It's time to remind people oftheir worth and encourage them
to be a little bit louder and alittle bit bolder.
I don't want the nextgeneration of professionals or
those that are pivoting, my kids, when they start looking for
roles, to feel as constrained asI did, because we're capable of
(30:06):
so much more than we are oftenled to believe.
I'm sick of it.
When I stopped listening to thenoise and I trusted myself,
doors opened.
More people started asking meto speak up, validating my
approach to leadership or tocustomer experience.
This journey wasn't somethingthat I'd ever planned, but it's
(30:27):
exactly where I'm supposed to be.
I've spent my career supportingothers and now I see it's
brought me here.
Yeah, I'm juggling a lot.
Yep, I'm dropping some ballsevery now and then, but I am so
excited.
This is the most epochal timeof my life.
(30:49):
Listeners, every single one ofyou deserves to be recognized.
You deserve to be celebratedand valued for your
contributions.
You have earned your space,whether you believe it or not.
Lean into your community.
Lean into places like ElevateCX, if you're part of the CX
community, because they willremind you that you have earned
(31:12):
this space.
If we work together, we'regoing to create something that's
so incredible.
So let's stop justifying why wedon't deserve more and just
start claiming it.
Use your voice, take up space,celebrate what you bring to the
table.
This is my era of empowerment,and I invite you to step into
(31:33):
yours, because together we'regoing to build something that's
truly extraordinary.
I am so happy to be here and Iam so thrilled that you're here
with me.
I'm Sarah Caminiti.
This is Epochal Growth.
I can't wait to see you soon.
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In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
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