Shedding Ego for Career Growth with Sarah Hatter

Text me with feedback or questions!

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED - BUY YOUR TICKETS HERE

What does it mean to lead with authenticity and foster genuine connections in the workplace? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Sarah Hatter, the founder of ElevateCX, as she unpacks the dynamics of building meaningful relationships and robust support systems, especially for women in the professional sphere. Sarah Hatter shares her journey and highlights the transformative power of shedding ego and competition, illuminating how these changes can spur both personal and career growth. Learn about the pivotal role of risk-taking and seizing new opportunities in shaping fulfilling careers, and the empowerment that comes from making deliberate choices.

Ever wondered how profound life experiences can break down social barriers and create deep, lasting friendships? This episode delves into the unique bonds formed through shared transformative events, such as completing the Camino. Sarah and I discuss the challenges of forming genuine friendships as adults and the importance of vulnerability and trust in connecting with others both personally and professionally. The conversation emphasizes the necessity of community and mutual support, highlighting how these elements are essential for navigating life's hurdles and achieving personal aspirations.

Discover the power of a supportive community, particularly for women aged 35 to 45, as we explore the shift from competition to collaboration. Reflecting on experiences in the tech industry, Sarah and I stress the importance of recognizing one's values and the pivotal role of mentorship. We also dive into strategies for effective customer support and the persistent challenges CX teams face in gaining recognition. Through inspiring stories and practical advice, this episode underscores the significance of embracing change, taking risks, and the profound impact of a community that celebrates achievements and fosters a collaborative environment.

Takeaways

• Building genuine relationships and finding support in the workplace is crucial, especially for women.
• Dropping the ego and competition allows for authentic connections and mutual support.
• Taking risks and being open to new opportunities can lead to personal and professional growth.
• Choice and empowerment are key in creating a fulfilling career. Take pride in your accomplishments and allow yourself to feel good about your work in the support community.
• Asking for help and support is not a sign of weakness, but rather a way to build relationships and connections.
• Sharing experiences and knowledge within the support community is valuable and helps to create a supportive and collaborative environment.
• Have confidence in your abilities and advocate for yourself and your team in order to be recognized and valued in the workplace.
• Prioritize relationships and empathy in support interactions, as they are key to building trust and providing a positive customer experience.

Support the show

“Change will not come if we wait for some other person, or if we wait for some other time. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek.”
- Barack Obama

Episode Transcript

Sarah Caminiti (00:03):
How many times have you thought there has to be
a better way?
Welcome to Epochal Growth, apodcast where we invite industry
leaders and change makers whothought that very thing and
realized that, yeah, a betterway to lead or to grow or to
build does exist, and once theytrusted themselves enough to

(00:24):
discover what's possible, theycreated the foundation for a new
era that's revolutionizing thelandscape of success.
The word Epochal refers tothese very moments in time,
because when you commit to beingbetter, the impact will last
for generations to come.
I'm your host, Sarah Caminiti.

(00:44):
Join me to uncover practicalinsights and strategies that
will empower you to be thechange that you seek.
I'm so happy that you're here.
Hey, you're here.
I'm so glad I'm Sarah, and thisis episode 13 of Epochal Growth
Instead of housekeeping today,because we all know the perks of

(01:05):
following and subscribing.
If you're new, you know whereto find these things on YouTube
and wherever you listen to yourpodcasts and you also know that
Buzzsprout came out with thiswild feature allowing you to
send me text messages byclicking the link in the
description.
It's pretty cool and you'rewell-versed in reviews.
I'm going to go rogue.
I'm throwing a challenge yourway.
Pretty cool and you'rewell-versed in reviews,
I'm going to go rogue.
I'm throwing a challenge yourway, listeners.

(01:27):
September 26th and 27th, ElevateCX is back with their 46th
conference in Denver.
It's so close to selling out,but we're not there yet.
So here's a challengeUse the link in the episode
description and purchase yourtickets for the two-day
conference.
If we sell this event out, Iwill figure out a way to get my

(01:47):
ass out to Denver.
If I wasn't returning from myhusband's surprise 40th birthday
trip the day before, I would befiguring nothing out.
I would already be there.
But if I do get out there, I'lltwist Sarah Hatter's arm and
get her to let me have one ofthose coveted speaker spots.
Maybe it'll be about definingyour core values.
I'll record a live episode andI will make every introduction

(02:12):
to all of the most incrediblepeople that are already planning
to attend with you listeners.
If you don't know how to askyour employer for the time off
or ask if they have a budget forevents like this, use that
Buzzsprout text link and send mea message, or find me on the
ElevateCX Slack.
Find me on LinkedIn.
We can make magic happen.
Don't let what ifs and worryprevent you from going to an

(02:35):
event as important for yourgrowth as this one.
I'm serious.
Please just ask.
We're happy to help.
I really do hope that we sellout.
I really do hope that you forceme to get on that plane so that
I can have the best time withthe best people, including you.
So please buy your tickets nowand invite your team.
This is for leaders.

(02:55):
This is for individualcontributors.
Anyone will benefit from thisevent event.
Before I introduce our guesttoday, I also have to give a
holy crap thank you to Priscillaand Jordan and Happy to Help
and everyone over at Buzzsprout.
Priscilla sent me a messageafter recording an episode of

(03:16):
Happy to Help, asking me for myaddress, saying she was sending
me something for the podcast.
I thought she was sending me asticker or a t-shirt, which
would have been lovely I wouldhave been very excited for
either, but she sent me abeautiful podcast specific
microphone.
I'm using it right now.
I'm sure everybody can hear thedifference.
I'm so fortunate to besurrounded by people that

(03:37):
empower me and lift me up.
Priscilla, thank you so muchfor this surprise.
I just feel very lucky to havemet you and your team and I am
really, really pumped for ourepisode to come out.
I wish I would have had thismicrophone, though, when we
recorded part two.
But hey, speaking of someone whoempowers and lifts up those
around her, today's guest is aname Anyone in the CX space is

(03:58):
familiar with.
She wrote the customer supporthandbook.
She founded an entire communityaimed to elevate the
opportunities and lives of thosein the customer experience
space.
She mentors, she encourages andshe shines light on every
person that she meets, andsomehow she's also managed to
crack the algorithm in ways thathave me convinced.
She's some sort of test subjectfor TikTok.

(04:19):
Yeah, I'm talking about SarahHatter, founder of ElevateCX,
the very event you need to go to.
This is going to be the easiestsell after you listen to Sarah
talk.
I consider not doing an introfor this episode, because how do
you introduce someone likeSarah Hatter?
But I couldn't pass up thechance to yell into the universe
how much I admire this womanand how much better my life has

(04:40):
been in these short months sinceJacqueline Mullen told me to
send Sarah a message out of theblue.
Like reaching out to thefounder of an incredible
community was no big deal,because that's just who Sarah is
.
She makes it not a big deal toreach out to her, and she will
always find time for those thatask.
Some key takeaways from thisepisode are how important it is
to build genuine relationshipsand find support in the

(05:03):
workplace.
It's crucial, especially forwomen.
Drop the ego and competitionand just allow authentic
connections and mutual supportto surround you, and for you to
surround others with.
Take risks and be open to newopportunities, because it can
lead to personal andprofessional growth that you did
not expect.
We're also going to talk abouthow choice and empowerment are

(05:25):
key in creating a fulfillingcareer and taking pride in your
accomplishments and allowingyourself to feel good about your
work in and out of the supportcommunity.
You're doing great things andyou should really really give
yourself a moment to justappreciate all that you do.
We'll also talk about how askingfor help and support is not a
sign of weakness.

(05:45):
We teach this to others all thetime, but why is it so hard for
us to realize this forourselves?
It's a way to buildrelationships.
It's a way to build connections.
It's a way to learn Listeners.
Sharing experiences andknowledge within the support
community is so valuable, and ithelps create a supportive and
collaborative environment.
It helps just lift you up andmake you realize that you're

(06:08):
doing the right thing.
You got to have confidence inyour abilities.
You have to advocate foryourself.
You have to advocate for yourteam in order to be recognized
and valued in the workplace.
Sarah goes into detail about allof the ways that you can make
this happen and what happenswhen you start committing to
this level of change, and shealso gives fantastic advice on
how to prioritize relationshipand empathy and support

(06:29):
interactions.
As we all know, they are key tobuilding trust and providing a
customer experience that makesan impact, sticks with the
customer and has them tellingtheir friends all about it.
I won't keep you any longer.
I'm really excited for thisepisode.
If you don't know Sarah, Ican't wait for you to meet her.
This is episode 13 of EpochalGrowth with Sarah Hatter, like a

(06:53):
couple weeks ago.
He's crushing it and it'samazing.
I'm proud of him.

Sarah Hatter (06:57):
Well, you're crushing it too.
I mean, look at you Like just arocket ship out of Mars into
our galaxy.
Where did you come from?
Where are you going?
Where have you been?
I've been in a hole.

Sarah Caminiti (07:09):
I've been in a hole.
I emerged and unexpectedly,like kind of against my will
truly, and then it was like andI guess I'm here, everybody,
that's right, that's right, yeah, and that's great.
I mean, that's right, that'sright.

Sarah Hatter (07:26):
Yeah, that's great .

Sarah Caminiti (07:26):
I mean truly Wild ride.
It's been, but like, I stilllike think about you and I like
I feel like I have known you for15 years.

Sarah Hatter (07:36):
So should we talk about this Our first
conversation?

Sarah Caminiti (07:39):
Yeah, you know what let's just dive into the
actual podcast and talk aboutthis.

Sarah Hatter (07:43):
So Jacqueline Mullen, who we love, who is the
greatest person.
I feel like we need to give hername space because she's so
amazing, we love her so much.
She's such a connector, she'ssuch a supporter, just
encourager.
She connected us and I'm notkidding.
Like two weeks before I had hada conversation with my best

(08:03):
friend, trevor, where I was justlike I'm not, I'm not making
any more friends named Sarah.
I'm done, I'm done with it,because my other best friend for
45 years who's well, I wouldnot even 45 years, that's not
true, it's just 40 years um, hername's Sarah, the one I did the
Camino with, um, and there's.
And then Sarah Betts is also insupport driven, and there's

(08:25):
like Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah,Sarah.
There I was working withanother girl named Sarah.
I've always had to be theperson who makes the concession
and I always go by sh, becausethere's always four other sarahs
in the room.
We had this whole conversationwhere I was just like I'm not
making friends with people namedSarah, I'm sick of it.
And so then I get this invitefrom someone named Sarah and I'm
like oh, another Sarah, great,okay, ignore, delete, okay,

(08:50):
whatever.
And you were like can we hop ona call and chat and you know,
funnily enough, I don't thinkpeople realize that is a primary
function of my job.
My job that I do this, you know, running Elevate, running this
community.
My primary objective andfunction is getting on the phone
with people who ask to get onthe phone with me.
Sometimes I have no idea whyand sometimes it's like a real,

(09:13):
clear objective, like they havea question for me.
I'm just so open to it that Inever think to be like what do
you want to talk to me about?
I can't believe you said yes,truly, I did not think in a
million years.

Sarah Caminiti (09:23):
You were going to default.

Sarah Hatter (09:30):
And I just do by default, right, because I'm so
used to it this part and I'mrealizing now yeah, look at the
balloons.
Right, I'm realizing now maybeI need to have some sort of like
qualifier in that, since I'mjust opening myself up to
whatever we got on the phone andit was.
It was truly one of thoseexperiences where you feel like,
have we known each other before?
Did we grow up together in apast life?

(09:52):
Like what is the weirdconnection?
Because you would say somethingabout something you had done
and I'd be like I've done thatas well.
And then I would say somethingand you'd say I've done that as
well, and it was weird stuff,weird stuff, not like.

Sarah Caminiti (10:05):
Oh yeah, I really like to walk down Main
Street on Tuesdays.

Sarah Hatter (10:09):
No, I like walks on the beach right.
No, it was like I brought upthe Camino de Santiago.
I had walked the Camino deSantiago last year.
You're like I walked the Caminode Santiago, and that is
unusual.

Sarah Caminiti (10:23):
first, of all, I've never met someone that's
done it Never.

Sarah Hatter (10:26):
I meet people peripherally, like online, right
.
Maybe you meet someone who or Ithink the most common thing is
people who want to do it or knowof it and want to hear about it
Like, you get that a lot, butit's so rare to meet someone in
the wild who has done it.
So when you do, it's one ofthose life experiences that you

(10:49):
cannot understand or comprehenduntil you experience it, and
that is not an exclusivity kindof thing or a disinclusion kind
of thing, it's just a fact.
So when you meet someone whohas been through that, who
understands what that was like,you just go into a whole other
level with them.

Sarah Caminiti (11:07):
Right, you go into a whole other plane of
existence, really, right, it'sso, so true, like the things
that you and I started talkingabout, like our feelings and and
like the aftermath and and likethe the stuff that you don't
share with people, usually rightoff the bat, especially if
they're like thinking aboutdoing it.
Like the the stuff that youdon't share with people, usually
right off the bat, especiallyif they're like thinking about
doing it, like the reality ofwhat the Camino is like, like it

(11:30):
was all the same and and it wasjust like wait, wait a second.
I really cause my friend didn'texperience it like I did, but
you experienced it like I didRight, yeah, I mean, it was nuts
.

Sarah Hatter (11:46):
And so I think from then it just we became such
quick friends due to the natureof, like our past lived
experiences, but also like wewere talking about like hopes
and dreams, and we were talkinglike we're on this call.
It's like we've never spokenbefore.
We're like you know what I wantto do, do you know what I
really want to do?
And we're like encouraging eachother, like yes, let's do it,
and I just I never, I've neverhad that experience before with,
especially because as you getolder, it's so difficult to find

(12:09):
great friends, it's sodifficult to sort of like have
those experiences you had, likewhen you're in your twenties and
you meet someone in thebathroom at a bar and you become
best friends, like.
Those kinds of magic momentshappen less and less and less as
you get older and as you getdistracted with life and all of
that.
You just don't have thecapacity for it.
So I was just so excited I'mstill so excited and it's been,

(12:30):
it's been great.
We keep joking about how it'slike have we only known each
other for two months?
Like what, like how, how longhas it?

Sarah Caminiti (12:37):
been, so let's just list all the things that
have, because that's everythingthere.
Like you and I entered oneanother's lives in a very
strange time in one of each ofour lives, but we didn't realize
for both of us, yeah like wehad no idea what was to come.
It was like we just started to,like we could feel there was

(12:59):
something brewing and each thingthat happened kind of connected
us in other ways and we startedon this journey of like the
great unknown through these pastcouple of months.
And it has been such a dreamand just I'm so thankful to have
you.

(13:19):
Me too, I don't know how Icould have navigated some of the
curveballs over these last fewmonths without you, because
you're just your true confidantand like, oh my gosh, it's just
been a dream.

Sarah Hatter (13:39):
Well, I think you need to give yourself some
credit because you are you knowI told you before that the
rocket ship kind of person.
You were just on an amazingpath right now.
But remember that rocket shipshave to burn through the ether
to get where they need to be andthat is a tough road.
But if you're determined like Iknow you are, like you
absolutely will get through thisstuff.

(13:59):
It just really helps.
And it's like you know, I'm sucha dork that I always bring
stuff back to like community,authenticity and relationships.
I mean, that's just obviouslymy heart, it's what drives me.
But I think that is the pointof us seeking each other out and
finding each other is so thatwe have something to balance us
and to push us along and towatch for us as we're shooting

(14:21):
off into the sky.
You need those people around,but it is so hard to find if
you're not intentional about itand also if those communities
aren't intentional about it,right, if you're not being put
in a place where you know thatwhen I went to the room,
everyone there is wanting tohelp me and wanting to meet me
and wanting to know about mylife and seeing ways they can
support, because that's just notthe norm all the time Right, so

(14:43):
there's vulnerability too.

Sarah Caminiti (14:45):
I mean the fact that both of us felt safe enough
with one another.
All the other stuff that helpedbuild that in like two seconds
definitely helped.
But and that's not normal but Ithink that in for females in
workspaces there's automaticallylike a guard up, like you want

(15:08):
so badly to trust these people,but you also don't know if you
should and you never meet themin person, and so if you share
too much, do not share too much.
But you and I just have startedlike just letting it all hang
out and thank you to theintroduction of the audio
message that opened up a wholenew.

Sarah Hatter (15:26):
Yeah, remember you went to get wings and we were
sitting there sending each otheraudio messages just because,
like you'd never done thatbefore, and I was like, oh, I'm
gonna change your life right nowsending yeah, yeah, well, I
think you know it's.
It's funny because you bring upa really good point about this
idea of like how women incommunity or women in industry
or women in the workplace relateto each other.

(15:48):
I think we're in a reallyinteresting time when it comes
to like how women are relatingto each other, because when you
get into like that 35 to like 45age range, you start to like
whittle down what, what do Iwant and need for relationships
and what is important to me.
And I don't think that mostpeople do it consciously.

(16:08):
I think most people just kindof do it, you know, as
situations arise or come along.
But I think, primarily, givenjust who we are let's say,
millennials or whatever you wantto call it women, our age are
so done with like thecompetition.
We're so over it and like I'm ina place in my life where I'm
not competing with anybody.
I'm not competing with anybody,I'm not doing a foot race with

(16:29):
you, I'm not racing you to theend of the block.
I don't care Like, I'm in mylane and I'm doing what's great
for me and I'm doing my awesomestuff and that gives me the
agency and the space to beexcited for your awesome stuff
and to like push you along andsupport you.
But I don't want to.
I'm not trying to like be sideby side comparing notes.
You know, that's like that'sjust where the frustration has

(16:50):
been for us in the last 10 or 15years, especially working in
tech.
You know, as I have, as youhave, it's just a.
It's just a weird world.
Unless you put those guardrailson, you say, well, this is how
I want to be and this is how theexample I want to be and this
is what I'm going to let in mylife.
I just don't.
I don't deal with like thatbullshittery of of weird
competition and ego, and there'sthere's so much more we could

(17:14):
be doing with our lives.
You know what I mean?

Sarah Caminiti (17:16):
oh my gosh yeah, like I've realized it's it's.
I love that you put it intothat age bracket because truly
it has been once I hit thatnumber of and mine ended up
happening more outwardly, like Iactually spent time reflecting
on my career and therelationships that I have around

(17:37):
me and why they exist and for anumber of reasons, but it
allowed me to really see myvalue and what my values are and
how those have guided methroughout my life in ways that
I didn't anticipate that theywould.
And now I'm in this place ofokay, well, I'm confident in

(17:58):
myself, like I don't need tocontinue to level up in such
like an intense way.
It's like I know where I'msupposed to be and build from
there.
I don't need to be like tryingto maybe I need to like dabble
in this entire other career andit's just, I'm here and that's

(18:19):
yes.
It is so true that ourgeneration of women have seen
what their moms have gonethrough throughout their careers
and and seen what their, theirneighbors and their friends that
were older have gone through intheir careers of that
competitive, like backstabbingmindset that you see on TV all
the time, and it's just theenergy that we have does not

(18:43):
have room for that nonsense.

Sarah Hatter (18:46):
I completely agree .
I also am, like you know, whenI talked about this idea of like
I don't want to compete withpeople Like I.
I'm also in this weird spacebeing a little bit older than
you or being a little bit olderthan some other people in the
elevate community too that Ialways have been the mom of the
class, right, and so much ofthat is because I reflect a lot

(19:09):
on like what did I not have whenI was 30?
What did I not have when I was35?
What you know?
What was it that I needed thatI could have used?
I'm going to be that person forother women, for other people
coming up in their careers.
I didn't have anybody tellingme how to start for my business.

(19:29):
I didn't have anybody tellingme how to navigate conflict in
the workplace.
I didn't have anybody tellingme how to negotiate salary or
that I should counter.
I didn't have any of that stuff.
And so, when you realize, I madeit through and I figured my
stuff out and I had to do it onmy own.
I don't want other people tohave to be doing that on their
own.
I want to be a resource forthat.

(19:50):
I want to be someone who theycan look to and ask questions,
you know, and say, give me someadvice, I need help, whatever it
might be.
That's such a power position toplay to in the world.
To be the person says I'm goingto be the giver of wisdom and
help and support andencouragement and I can't
imagine sacrificing that orlooking at the option for that

(20:13):
and then saying I'm going to becatty and backstabby and
scumbaggery and I'm going tojust like whittle away people's
confidence, you know, with snideremarks or something like that.
For what?
For what?

Sarah Caminiti (20:27):
For what?
Yeah, it's.
It is what you have created inthe Elevate community and in the
support community at large is asafe space to I hope so.
I hope so To answer questions.
Well, I mean, I'm a part of somany different places and what
I've always noticed with Elevatein the short time that I've
been there, it is truly a placewhere you are a close friend to

(20:51):
everybody here, not just you,Sarah.
If you are in this Elevatecommunity, you are a close
friend of everybody that is inthe Elevate community, whether
you know them, have everinteracted with them or not.
It is a place where people goand ask questions and they know
that they will get help.
That is thoughtful, and it isbecause of you having the

(21:15):
intentions that you do to createthis space and build off of
what you're doing on your ownthat people are allowing
themselves to even considerasking these questions.
Yeah, 100%.

Sarah Hatter (21:28):
I so appreciate you acknowledging that and
recognizing it and knowing againthat you know.
My ambitions with Elevate arealways what did I need?
What did I need back in 2006when I got my first job at a
startup SaaS company?
Back before, that was a thingyou know.
I don't even think the iPhonewas out when I started working

(21:50):
in support and, given also thefact that I am a lifetime
support practitioner, I knowthis world, I know the language,
I know the stressors, I knowthe ladder, I know the salary
bands.
I know all this stuff because Ilive it, I'm in it.
And you can't run a communitysuccessfully or run a business

(22:10):
successfully or manage people ona team successfully if you do
not have context for the workthat they do.
You just can't.
And so you know I would nevergo start a community for, like,
oil rig guys I don't know thelast thing about it.
I have an electric car.
I don't know anything aboutthat world and I'm never like if

(22:30):
someone were like, well, youcan make a hundred thousand
dollars, if you have a communityfor oil rig people, you should
go start one of those, why wouldI do that?
That's not going to ever beeffective for what it needs to
be, which is like authenticrelationships and, you know,
real support and wisdom, sharingand all of that.
So I think that's where italways has to start is like.
I have experience that I knowother people have, are going to

(22:52):
experience where they're goingto hit this blocker that I hit.
And I look all the time atpeople who are in this community
and elevate, who have beenthere from the beginning Matt
Patterson, you know, lanceconcept, ben McCormick, erica
Clayton all of these people arethe same, they're the same type
of person where it's like I havebeen, I've done your job, I've
been in your shoes.
In fact, like Matt Pattersonand I met when we were both like

(23:16):
teams of one doing support forSAS companies, we were both like
I was employee number six andhe was employee number three and
he was in Australia and I wasin Chicago and we connected
because he was a customer ofmine who sent me a customer
support email, not joking.
So we've built, brick by brickby brick, a community of people

(23:38):
who really desperately want toshare their experiences and they
want to share their wisdomfreely and they want to guide
people and they want toencourage people and they want
to give space for someone to sayI just got laid off or I had
this shitty fight, or I, youknow, we're getting acquired,
what do I do?
And that's what makes itspecial.

(24:00):
And each time somebody posts aquestion in our chatter channel
and says, has anybody done X?
And there are just like 37replies in the first like two
minutes and they're all like yousaid, they're all thoughtful,
golden, helpful replies.
That is just, and that there'sno other way to to explain what

(24:20):
we do in Elevate Like that's it,that's what it's, that's what
it's for.
But but yeah, it does takeintention.
It has you have to go into itwith, with a, you know, a sense
of purity around it and no ego,and just you know.
What do you need?
What can I help with?
I think I asked.
I probably asked that questionconstantly in every newsletter
and in every like monthly updatethat I do is how's everyone

(24:43):
doing?
What do you need?
What can I help with?
And I love the fact that peopletell me they give me answers
and we build from that and we,we pivot and we build and we add
things and we, you know, trynew things and experiment based
around that discourse.
But yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh,it's.
I don't know how to.

(25:04):
I don't know how to explain itother than to say I'm just
really proud of it and it's notall my doing, I'm not just proud
of myself, I'm proud of thewhole community at large, you
should be, you should be, andit's such a, it's a special
place that continues to surpriseme.

Sarah Caminiti (25:17):
I was just telling someone yesterday who
was asking questions about a jobuh, like they were feeling
discouraged about the state ofthe you know the job climate and
I told her, just if just postin elevate, if there's a job
that you're excited about, ifanybody has any connections
there, and because I've neverseen anything like what I've

(25:42):
seen in the last like two daysof people just like, hey, I'm
super pumped about this job, butI think maybe this person might
know someone.
Oh, my gosh, yes, I know someone.
Oh, yeah, like what world isthis?
And it takes that intention andthat continuous like thought of

(26:03):
I'm here to serve the purpose.
And the purpose is everyoneshould have a chance to be
successful and everyone shouldfeel confident when they are
going into their job every day.
And there's a little bit ofanger and frustration behind it
because you don't understand whywe are still in a space of

(26:23):
ambiguity and lack ofinformation sharing outside of
our happy little bubble.
But instead of using that tobecome resentful, it is I mean,
it's the mind of a supportperson at the end of the day it
really is.

Sarah Hatter (26:41):
And it also gets back to like what you're saying.
You have to drop the ego at thedoor and just say you know I'm
going to, I'm going to be boldhere and be vulnerable first and
I'm going to hope that somebodyis going to meet my
vulnerability in a safe way andwe are going to do something
together and the you know theuniverse really rewards risk.

(27:04):
The universe really rewardsrisk.

Sarah Caminiti (27:06):
We live I mean you and I know we've been living
this for the past few monthsright, like I need to interrupt
you just for a second, Sarah,and and just for those that are
not watching this video andcould not watch me, just start
to stifle my laughter, because,through Sarah and my journey,
the universe has played a verypivotal role in just everything,

(27:29):
in ways that I never imaginedwere possible, and it is truly a
testament to, like you, knowwhen you're on the right path.

Sarah Hatter (27:40):
Yes, yes, 100%.
But you know, what's reallyfunny is like in context of what
you know, where life has thrownme curveballs in the past
couple of months that are justlike I did not see coming right
at all, like whatsoever.
But I did because I do think abig part of of being open to

(28:02):
this am I on the right path?
And give me signs, like,whatever it is is, you have to
be really in tune with your gut.
You have to be really in tunewith, like, that space, how your
body reacts to situations or orcertain conflicts or certain
confrontations or certainrelationships.
And I look back and I'm like,yeah, I had an uneasiness.
And I look back and I'm like,yeah, I had an uneasiness, I had
an uneasiness I couldn't settle.

(28:25):
I wasn't in a place where itfelt right, but I kept like
driving through and I keptpushing through and I kept
saying, like we're going to, I'mgoing to be the one who, like
fixes it and like makes ithappen and whatever it was.
And as soon as you just say youknow what, I am going to just be
open to whatever, because I'vebeen fighting and I've been

(28:46):
pushing and it's not resolving.
You are in the same place,right when you're, just like I
need to leave this job.
I need to leave this job.
I have been the person who hasjust been doing all the heavy
lifting and making all thecompromises and making all the
sacrifices and I'm just going tosay, you know, security be
damned.
I'm going to take a risk andI'm going to put myself first,

(29:09):
and when you do that, that issuch a risky maneuver.
I mean, especially in ourindustry.
We're seeing people get laidoff constantly.
We're seeing people lose theirjobs all the time.
You know what boldness to justbe like I'm going to voluntarily
leave a very safe situationthat provides for me because I
don't like it.

Sarah Caminiti (29:27):
Right, Like yeah , right, but how empowering it
is, how empowering it is to bein this space anymore, right,
because I'm not providing thevalue for the place that I am.
That they deserve to have tohave somebody that meets them

(29:53):
with their value system andconnects with them on that way,
and that's okay.
They can do them.
That's just not my spaceanymore and I would be more
valuable elsewhere and so well.

Sarah Hatter (30:02):
It's like sometimes you need perspective
of that too, because, like Isaid, you know you, you we're
fighters, we're, we're tenaciousand we're not we're not going
to give up because it's hard.
We are going to fix thesituation.
But, like I remember this onetime, my grandma 2020, um, my
grandma was, you know, in themiddle of the COVID thing.

(30:22):
She's recovering from, uh,cancer surgery.
And it was, you know, in themiddle of the COVID thing.
She's recovering from cancersurgery, and it was I was
staying with her as a caretakerbecause, you know, we had to
quarantine together and whatever, she's 94 years old, she's
living alone, she has a massivehouse it's ridiculous and in her
living room, this great room,she had a recliner that she
would sit in and a giant tv allthe way over on the other side

(30:46):
of the room, and I mean a longway over.
And she's 94 again.
It's been there.
Remember, like the scene inbatman with, like, michael
keaton, when they're at that bigtable.
That's what it was like andit's always been like that.
It's just, you know, whatever,and we're going to watch a movie
and I realize that she's askingme like, what is that?
What is that?

(31:06):
Because she can't see, hervision had started to
deteriorate so bad and she wasjust living with it and, uh, it
had gotten just very, very badat that point and she's like,
yeah, I can't see the tv.
I can kind of see stuff.
And I just said, okay, get upout of your chair for a second.
And I just grabbed her chairand I push it across the room to

(31:27):
like five feet in front of thetelevision.
I was like, can you see it now?
And she's like, well, yeah, butI'm just like in the middle of
the room and I was like, well,just sit here, watch the movie
and we'll move it back when weneed to move it back.
But you know, she'd lived inthis space where it was just
like this is my lane, this is myspace and I'm going to make it
work.
Right, you don't have to.

(31:47):
Once you start thinking outsideof the confines that you have
put yourself in and you startmaking a little bit of change
and taking a little bit of riskand know that you're supported
by somebody or people or acommunity who are going to be
there for you if that riskdoesn't pan out, you just start
to get, you know, moreopportunity.
And then there's another doorthat opens and then you get

(32:07):
introduced to somebody else andthen you hear about this thing
that you'd never known aboutbefore and oh my gosh, look at
this connection.
But you're never going to getthose opportunities unless
you're open to it.
And you and I don't just meanlike give me opportunity, I mean
like I'm actively out therepursuing and looking for and
seeking other things.
And that is scary.

(32:28):
And I don't say that I wouldnever tell someone like wait
until you're not afraid and thengo do it, build up your courage
.
You know just, you just can't.
You have to go into it despitethat, because the risk and
reward value we already, wealways know that math problem is
.
You know, we know that that'swhat it looks like the greater

(32:49):
the risk, the higher the reward,right, but um, it's yes it.

Sarah Caminiti (32:54):
No, it's I'm.
It's.
The cool thing about thiscommunity and taking those sorts
of chances, though, Sarah isthe is how fast you are
supported Like how the eagernessfrom other people to just like
be in it with you.

Sarah Hatter (33:11):
Yes.

Sarah Caminiti (33:12):
Like, like it is terrifying, yes, when you are
thinking about, oh how, what islike a social media calendar
plan, all of these things arelike getting overwhelmed by all
of these things that I stillwould never even dream to
understand.
And then you're just in it andyou didn't expect to be in it.
And then you look around andit's just like I have a team,

(33:35):
I've got a team and I didn't onhaving a team and, uh, it
doesn't take courage really, atthe end of the day, it just
takes chance and choice.

Sarah Hatter (33:45):
And choice is the big one.
It's the big one.
I mean, that's what it is, andI think, as women we grew up, a
lot of us entered into theworkplace just being told like
this is what your job is andthis is your salary, this is
your job title, and you sit hereuntil somebody calls you into
an office and gives you more,and then you're so grateful for

(34:06):
whatever more they gave you and,like I said at the beginning of
this conversation, like we aredone with that.
You're done with that, and wedon't want to see younger women
going through that.
Right, we want to prove to themthat you can be, like, Epochal
brave about any choice that youmake.
But it has to be your choice.
You have to be the one tochoose.

Sarah Caminiti (34:28):
Yes, you have to be the one to choose, and you
have to, you have to allowyourself to be proud of yourself
.
Like and I think that issomething in the support
community especially I know this, I mean, I'm speaking mostly
for myself it's you get sowrapped up in helping others all

(34:50):
the time that you forget to,like, take a sec and remember oh
my gosh, look at all this thatI've done, look at this space
that I've built or that I'm apart of, and these connections
that I'm having with customersand like, not everyone can do
this, I'm doing this and I amdamn good at it, and I want to

(35:13):
just empower everybody else tofeel great about it too, because
they should, and we don't do it.
We never do it.

Sarah Hatter (35:20):
We never do it.
I think support in the communalsense compounds.
The more you receive it, themore you ask for it, the more
you ask for support and thenreceive that support.
Then it just compounds.
You've now built anotherrelationship with someone.
You've gotten to know somebodyelse.
You've gotten to know somethingabout their work life that you

(35:42):
didn't know before.
And then the next time somebodyelse asks for support, you have
this context of like oh, I gotthis great advice from Sarah, or
I remember Ben McCormick wrotethis blog post five years ago
and here it is.
And then Ben jumps into theconversation.
I was like, yeah, thanks fortagging me.
So those kinds of things.
I think I always get verysurprised to see how those

(36:05):
conversations start and how theyunfold.
But it all starts with somebodyasking for help and it all
starts with somebody being braveand being vulnerable and saying
does anybody have any insighthere that they can share with me
?
That's the hardest step to take, but I've never seen it fail.
I've never seen someone ask forhelp or support or guidance or

(36:27):
intros and someone say no, orfor them to just get no response
Like that is not going tohappen, right.
So it's weird how we allow thefear of the 1% of fractional
possible negative outcome reallydrive choices that we make,
especially in relationships.

Sarah Caminiti (36:49):
So much it does, it really does.
And I think too that even ifyou put something out there and
you don't receive anyone'sactual lived experience or or or
guidance in it, you'll getsomeone else that says I was
just thinking about this samequestion yesterday.
I'm alone, and now you're notalone, because that is the

(37:09):
easiest thing to get into yourhead of.
I'm the only one that's feelingthis.
No one else has gone throughthis.

Sarah Hatter (37:16):
And then you put it in.
What we see a lot in Slack islike we have a really unique
situation and, funnily enough,as a consultant, I used to joke
about this all the time.
Every single time I'd start anew project or someone would
write me about needing help withsomething, every single time
they would say our product isvery complex.

(37:36):
And I learned after a while ofseeing this that your product is
not complex.
Your product is the sameproduct Everybody else is
selling.
You're doing the same thingeverybody else is doing.
The problem is you've created acomplex system.
That that is the trouble.
That's the pain point, right?
And so we see that happen a lotin these conversations, where
someone is like we have a reallyunique situation and then you

(37:58):
realize like no, 15 people havejust chimed in to say that
they've been through that exactsame situation.
It's not that unique.
It's not going to preclude youfrom getting help because you
don't know how to explain thesituation fully, right?
You can just start theconversation.

Sarah Caminiti (38:14):
Do you think that that's something that's
because of the nature ofstartups and the tech space, of
everything?
Similar but different, and itjust not?

Sarah Hatter (38:26):
connected?
I do, and I also think you knowone of my famous quotes I quote
myself all the time is supportis not prescriptive right, and
so it can't be People.
You know again, as a consultant, people would come to me all of
the time and they just wantedthe template.
What are the five things that Ishould do?

(38:47):
What are the top 10 metricsthat I should track?
Just give me the template andI'll pop it in and it will be
good Like no, it doesn't workthat way.
I got to know who your customersare.
I got to know what kind ofproduct you're selling.
I've got to know your pricepoint.
I've got to know, like yourcloud infrastructure.
I've got to know your privacypolicy.

(39:07):
I've got to know all this stuffthat tells me, informs me, how
to then figure out whatpriorities are there for you and
your customers.
And I think you know that's thevery nebulous nature, if you
will, of building businessesright now is that we build
businesses and products and appsat like rapid speed.
I remember people used to spendyears building a company, years

(39:30):
building a company beforethey'd go to market, and now
we're seeing investors say wehave a six month ramp for
profitability.
That's outrageous.
It's outrageous that you knowwhat technology has has allowed
us, how it's allowed us, toevolve and be progressive.
But the problem with that iseverybody does 50% of the work

(39:51):
just to get it out the doorRight, and then that door is
swung wide open and then you'relike like hang on, like holy
shit, like whatever.
So so yeah, I don't know.
I think that there's.
Definitely the nature ofstartups is that people do
things and build things veryincomplete before launch, and
then they're trying to kind ofbuild the ship while it's

(40:14):
boarding.
And then I also think there'sno playbook, for there's no
standardization of what you'resupposed to start with and how
you're you know what you'resupposed to ask for customers to
agree to and what your pricingshould be.
There's just a lot of opinions.
So it's.
I think it puts people in atough spot, especially when

(40:37):
you're in a role that iscustomer facing and you don't
have a lot of voice and agencyto push changes to product or
pricing or terms.
Then you end up just being like, okay, I'm, I'm in a cage and
this is my cage and I, this iswhat I've got to work with.
How do I decorate this cage?
How do I make this lighting alittle less harsh in my jail

(40:57):
cell, right, like we just haveto work with what we've got, and
so you know there's.
And also it's's like now we'reseeing in support too, in the in
the customer experience world,we're seeing all these frag,
these fragments, and I, you know, we used to always fight
against silos when you'reworking in an organization, but
aren't you seeing that now inthe world of cx, there's these
silos that are being builtaround dsc and e-commerce

(41:22):
support, enterprise support, b2b, saas support Everybody does
things differently.
Fintech support is a wholeother beast than someone who
just works at a SaaS company, asubscription company, right, and
someone who's selling luggageinfluencer luggage on Instagram,
right.

(41:42):
Or TikTok, yeah, I have no ideaIf I work for a calendar app.
I have no idea how to give themadvice other than just be a
nice person, right?

Sarah Caminiti (41:51):
Well, but that brings me to a question that
I've been wondering about for awhile.
If folks feel the same way, andyou would have, I think, the
greatest knowledge of this andit's most of the time, and
throughout my career, I'veentered into spaces that I know
nothing about, like literallynothing about and, on paper,

(42:13):
totally not qualified when youreally think about the actual
purpose of the company.
And then here I come and say,cool, let's just do this.
And then here I come and say,cool, let's just do it.
Oh, same, same.
But doesn't that mean like atits core, support doesn't change
?

Sarah Hatter (42:28):
No, it does not, it doesn't, it doesn't.

Sarah Caminiti (42:32):
Every single silo, and you can if you have
the ability to create like a duediligence system of
understanding what you need tocheck before before you answer
the ticket.
When you you come up with thelike the operational aspect of
things, with with definedstructures and processes and
policies and procedures and allof that, sure, that's going to
change, no matter what, whereyou are, every company but at

(42:56):
the end of the day, you know,asking thoughtful questions,
providing a space for thecustomers to leave, feeling
proud and confident to besuccessful on their own, and
extracting the data that youneed in order to hopefully have
a voice somewhere to share thisinformation, since the product
is built for the people thatyou're talking to.

Sarah Hatter (43:17):
Hopefully is the key word there.

Sarah Caminiti (43:21):
Yeah, we're working on it, Sarah, we're
working on it, but then nothingelse is different.
Like you can come into anycompany and figure out how to
give good support you really can.

Sarah Hatter (43:33):
And as someone again, I you know I'm harping on
this I was a consultant kind ofthing, because that is a very
mixed bag of experience.
That's everything from WaltDisney World and Chase and
Spirit Airlines to a random realestate company creating their
own app in Indianapolis.
I've worked for them all.
If I were to go into anycompany and they were like, tell

(43:54):
us what to do.
We need to do good support,right, we need to do good
supportcom, I mean, yeah,obviously, right.
If it was just a caveman whowas like me, good support I
would.
I would have a list of thingsto say.

(44:14):
These are non-negotiables.
Right.
Start with the most giant,robust, overkill knowledge base
that you could ever think about.
Every single question, even thedumb ones, even the ones you
think are so dumb that if aperson asked me this question, I
would refund their money andsay you shouldn't have access to

(44:35):
a computer.
Those questions you put in aknowledge base.
You start there and you workalongside your product team and
every product manager who's likeI think we're going to add this
feature and I think we're goingto tweak this feature.
You watch it like a hawk.
You add every single thing withscreenshots.
You sign up for launch brightly, so that you don't have to

(44:55):
update your screenshots and yourknowledge base constantly.
It's a shameless plug for them,right?
So you start there.
You start with I'm going tohave an educated customer right
off the bat.
And then the other thing, too,that you said the confident
customer.
How do I build the confidentcustomer?
That is, they go to the website.
It clearly shows them how tolog in.
The word is in the upperright-hand corner, right.

(45:18):
Just access my account.
Make it easy.
Right, just access my account.
Make it easy.
They clearly see from evenbefore they sign up help,
knowledge base, support.
They can go through that stuff.
They can see tutorials.
They can access you.
If they're in the app or usingthe product.
There is an option for them toget support that's persistent on

(45:39):
every page, whatever it mightbe.
We are here.
We are here to help.
That's also setting up systemslike your onboarding and setting
up the emails and all that kindof stuff.
But just to start, you have tobe educated customer, you have
to be a confident customer.
And then that's when you getinto the stuff like building
great language, personifiedlanguage, right, that is like.

(46:01):
This is our brand.
This is what you can alwaysexpect from us, no matter who's
answering your email, it's goingto have this tone, we're going
to use this language, we'regoing to have this structure.
And I'm very old school right,like I would train a support
person to be like you greet them, really friendly, you
acknowledge their problem, youkind of repeat it to them, you
send them the link from the helpcenter, you make a, put a

(46:21):
paragraph in as like this iswhat it says.
You ask them to try it and youencourage them to reply to you.
Yeah Right, it works.

Sarah Caminiti (46:37):
It just works.
This is just the basic stuff.
Yeah, even just having thatfirst line and this is one of
the biggest things that I preachwhen I train you have to start
every single email, no matterwhat number it is on the thread,
saying thank you for reachingout.
Thanks so much, thanks forgetting in touch.

Sarah Hatter (46:48):
I'm sorry you're having this issue.
Let me jump into it with youand see what we can do, and I
know that again, it sounds easyto us because we've been doing
this for 20 years, but it iseasy this is the structure right
.
So I'm I'm now as a consumer andsomeone who's in their 40s and
someone who's addicted to TikTokand TikTok shop.
And also don't forget that I'vebeen laying in bed for the past

(47:10):
five days, you know, on mydeathbed, thinking what last
purchases impulse buys can Imake before I expire.
I'm I'm reminded daily aboutthe consumer experience and how
difficult it is to get people tojust like, get on board with
things right, and still, to thisday, it's 2024.

(47:33):
We've been talking about thisstuff for 20 years at least I
have, and it's like it's nuts tome.
So, when we think about thisidea of like, we've all had
these problems.
We've all had these situations.
We've all been the person onthe team who's desperately
trying to make changes and whocan't get through to people how
important it is.
We can't get investment fromthe top and product is walking
all over us and engineeringdoesn't care.

(47:54):
You really have to be the onewho's like okay, I'm going to go
back to basics, I'm going toclean up my side of the street
and again like, how many times?
Well, actually, Sarah, youdon't know this because you've
never been to an elevate inperson, but I talk a lot about
Andrew Rios the first time hespoke in an elevate.
Who doesn't love Andrew Rios?

(48:14):
Right, I love him so much.
He's so wise and he's just sucha bro.
I love that, right, I love he'ssuch a dad.
But he talked about when he gotthis job I don't remember which
job it was, but I think itmight've been his last job.
At Turntide he put together theyou know, the Rios patented
support report where every weekhe would send out this email to

(48:38):
the entire company that was.
Here's so many emails we put inand Sarah is off this weekend
because she got marriedCongratulations.
And we're looking at, you knowthis many bug reports on this
new feature, but overallcustomers are really liking it.
And here's an email of the weekthat we got and he didn't ask
permission to do that.
No, he didn't even think aboutasking permission to do that.

(49:01):
That's my favorite part of thestory is that he wasn't about it
.
Like he encourages people, heencourages people right and he
sent it out to the entirecompany with that boldness,
because that's his way of sayingmy team is so important.
You've got to know what's goingon right.
Because if you get by, if I getbuy-in from from people, when

(49:23):
they open up that email theyrealize like holy shit, there's
a's going on right.
Because if you get by, if I getbuy-in from people, when they
open up that email and theyrealize like holy shit, there's
a lot going on, like, oh my gosh, this team is just like
churning through emails or oh,wow, somebody, really, they
don't like this feature.
All of a sudden you get buy-inand all of a sudden you get
people's attention and it onlycomes down to you saying again,
I'm going to keep my side of thestreet clean, I'm going to do

(49:43):
my stuff, I'm going to be theexample for me and my team,
we're going to set boundariesand standards and if that's how
I get the rest of the team onboard, then yeah, that's how
we're going to do it.
But we're not going to askpermission to be seen.
We're not going to askpermission to come to the
meeting.
Or can you guys give me abreakdown of what happened?

(50:05):
No, we're not going to do that,right.
We did that.
It didn't work.
That's why everyone is likestuck with shitty support
practices now Right.

Sarah Caminiti (50:12):
So, yes, so, like I, then one of the things
that I love that you brought upwas that you um that through
that support report, it, it, it.
He showed his team that he knewtheir value and also, it didn't
put this is something that hasbeen driving me nuts, that I've

(50:33):
been hearing over and over againfrom so many people across
industries, like not just in CX,but it's this it puts like
putting the responsibility onthe ones that are not included
to build those relationships,like spin all the energy, like
trying to like become just partof their circle, and it's like

(50:57):
no, no, if they wanted you to bein this circle, you would be in
the circle.
You have been doing what youneed to do.
Well, you don't need to sellyourself to them and and pretend
to be all of these other thingsto like, please, these other
people, because they havedisrespected you for years.
No, you give them data and also, why is it?

Sarah Hatter (51:20):
the story was always you gotta get a seat at
the table.
Support needs a seat at thetable, you know.

Sarah Caminiti (51:26):
here's how to get.

Sarah Hatter (51:27):
I would say that all day long.
No, but Sarah, listen, I get ittoo.
I get it, Sarah, I don'tdisagree with it.
But why is it that other tablesthat I'm fighting to get to?
Why aren't people fighting toget to my table?
Oh, I love that one, that's ahot take.
Why isn't product fighting toget in the room with the support
people and attend our all handsand listen in?

(51:48):
Why aren't they coming to us toask questions, right?
Why isn't the entireengineering team bringing their
calendar into our space andsaying here's what we have
planned.
What do you think of this?
Into our space and sayinghere's what we have planned.
What do you think of this?
Think again too.
Like if you're buildingproducts for people who work in
seasonal your customer have.

(52:10):
You know seasonal ebbs andflows.
If you're in e-commerce or DTC,you know that September to
January is peak season.
Do you really think that yourengineering team thinks about
that when they're starting inJanuary to plan out all of the
new features and products andwe're going to change the
location of the hamburger menufor this ninth time in three
years?
You have to be the place wherethey come and get checks on that

(52:31):
and say is this okay and youhave to be the one who says no,
that's not going to work forthat time, get it done by July.
So, yeah, I'm kind of over thisidea of like we need to fight to
have our voices heard.
We this idea of like we need tofight to have our voices heard.
We need to fight to be in theroom, like we can make our
voices heard.
But we also have to remindpeople experientially, remind

(52:52):
them that you know you'remissing out if you're not a part
of our team, if you're not here, figuring out what we're doing,
asking us questions andlearning about what's happening
over here, like you're the onesat the loss and not us.
So that was the thing that thesupport report really turned
started to really turn my mindon.
Is that this idea of like?
Yes, it's important that wehave interdepartmental

(53:13):
communications and support andall that kind of stuff, but I
think more so we need to stopacting like.
We need to stop acting like thelowest rung of the ladder if we
don't want to be treated likethat.

Sarah Caminiti (53:24):
Yep, yeah, because once you shift that
mindset of desperation I mean,I've seen this for myself, like
personally, like once I stoppedapproaching things of please,
please, just let me in, please,just give me a chance Once you
shift that mindset and insteadsay, no, I deserve to be this in
this space, I deserve to beheard, my team deserves to have

(53:48):
all of the notoriety that canpossibly be had for them in this
company, at the same level, ifnot more, than the other
departments that they'recheering on nonstop.
Yeah, just give us first anequal space and let us show you
what you've been missing forever.
Right, and that's when thosechanges could start to happen.

Sarah Hatter (54:11):
Yeah, life is change, persistent, continual,
interrupting change all the time.

Sarah Caminiti (54:19):
Change is good.
Change is good.

Sarah Hatter (54:21):
Change is good and I think the more you embrace it
and the more you expect it andthe more you make room for it,
the better you're going to feelwhen something gets dropped in
your lap.
You know, we live in such aspace of like this scarcity of
like capacity right, and I think, as women, we know that we
always underestimate ourcapacity, we always

(54:43):
underestimate what we can takeon and what we can bounce back
from and what we can beresilient for.
We need to just have the spacefor it in our minds that, no
matter what happens, I'm goingto be able to pivot, I'm going
to be able to respond, I'm goingto be able to figure out a
solution and be proud of that.
And that's not just, you know,for women in the workplace.

(55:03):
I think that's for people insupport.
Knowing what we know is that theideal scenario is we are equals
in a world right, when CX isthe big umbrella that everybody,
everybody falls under.
But we know that's not the truth.
We know that's going to taketime to get to and it's going to
take us fighting for and it'sgoing to take us being
persistent.
But if you have space in yourmind that something's going to

(55:26):
go wrong, something's going tobe hard, I'm not going to go the
, I'm not going to know theanswer and I'm going to need
help.
Then, when that time comes, youaren't shattered by it, you
aren't just shaken.
And you know, I I've learnedthat lesson so so much over the
past like six months or so.

(55:52):
You know, personally andprofessionally as well, that how
rigid I was holding on to likemy plan and how I was just like,
well, this is this, and thenI'm going to do this, and then
I'm going to do this.
And what happens when all ofthose this is no longer exist,
what that?
So, and it's taking thatmindset too, of like every time
one of those thises no longerexist.

Sarah Caminiti (56:04):
What that?
So yeah, and it's taking thatmindset too, of like, every time
one of those bad things happen,it's to prepare me for the next
great thing.
It's all just part of that pushto get to your next era.

Sarah Hatter (56:20):
You know it's right, you know it's funny too
is like we've done over 45Elevate events all over the
world and it's like two or threea year and it's thousands and
thousands and thousands ofattendees over 5,000 easily.
And every talk that peoplestill remember and talk about

(56:41):
and bring up to me or say to mefive years later, remember that
talk.
They were talks from people whowere talking about pretty
massive upheavals in their world.
Maybe it was giant mistakesthat they made like the girl
from Pinterest who accidentallydeleted a Zendesk rule and
30,000 customer emails skippedthe inbox over time Like that's

(57:05):
an interesting talk, right.
Or like Lance's talk that hegave after we came back from
pandemic times where he, in themiddle of 2020, his company got
acquired by Uber and we're nottalking got acquired by some
random company.
They got acquired by Uber.
That is a life shift.
That is a massive life shift.
These are talks that peopleremember and they talk about all

(57:26):
the time and I always say, whenI'm looking for people on stage
to tell their stories, I wantyou to tell a toolbox story,
something that is going to givepeople context and information
and education for when they havethat same issue or that same
problem, where they run intothat same situation.
Or I want you to be a validatorand I want you to tell the

(57:47):
people in the room who've beenthrough the same thing You're
not alone.
I went through this too.
We have a shared experience.
You made the right choices,it's okay.
Those are the only two sort oftopics that anyone cares about,
and it's so.
It's so sort of symbolic and,you know, metaphorical about
life as well in relationships.

(58:09):
The relationships that mean themost to me are the ones where
we've been through shit togetheror I can ask you for help, and
I know that you have experienceand wisdom to share with me
freely.
That is going to help me.
So all we ever really want todo, I think, is mirror back into
our lives and our professionsthe key components of humanity

(58:32):
and the things that makerelationships important and the
things that make relationshipslong, lasting and successful.
We just need to find ways tocontinue to push that into our
careers and our professionallives and how we manage people
and how we talk to each otherand how we talk about our own
work.
And you know, also, like whatwe aspire to in work, it all has

(58:52):
to come back down to.
How is human?
What part of this is thehumanity highlighted and where
can I go from there?
Yeah, that was good that wasgood.

Sarah Caminiti (59:04):
I feel like I've said it's true like 20,000
times on this.
Call Sarah because, like thatwas so beautiful.

Sarah Hatter (59:11):
Um, I don't even think that I can have a follow
up.
You can quote me on that.
No, oh there.
I also think that thepseudofed's kicking, and so this
might be methamphetamine.
This might be an illegalsubstance.
That has is making me talk ridethis.
Why didn't we just start now?
Honestly, you understand whypeople do meth when you have

(59:34):
been on pseudofed for five days,because it truly is like you
know, I really should start asandwich shop in lisbon.
What am I doing?
Doing with my life?
Like you just you're like I've,never, I've never been a
woodworker but I think I couldfigure it out.
That's.
That's the context To havepurchase your, your deathbed,
tiktok purchase.

Sarah Caminiti (59:53):
Honestly, honestly, it's like I have too
much confidence at this point inmy place on this earth.
Yep, yep, I think that that'sgood.
We need to just embrace it, um.
So, since I know that wecontinue this for seven more
hours, but oh yeah, I don't needto have the Sudafed uh, and
take over the whole system asmuch as I want it to, um, but I

(01:00:14):
do end all of my calls by askingthe folks that give me with
their time to share with me whatera you find yourself in or
what era you think you're movinginto.
So, Sarah Hatter, what's yourera?
Yeah.

Sarah Hatter (01:00:27):
I'm in my wildflower era.
I really am.
I've been, you know, especiallyin my career and what I've done
and how I've grown my companiesand now grown Elevate and have
seen what is possible.
I've really shifted from beinga walled garden to just being
like I'm out there, I'm outthere on the trail, let's see

(01:00:49):
what blooms.
That is very hard for me assomeone who has been
self-employed, solo entrepreneur, solo person, like I don't have
anybody who's like paying mybills or helping me out.
I've always been just me, me,me, me, me.
I'm.
I'm really thriving right now,kind of giving myself grace to

(01:01:11):
not be so aggressive and justlike let's see what happens,
let's take a risk, let's trysomething new.
Let's answer that email fromthat salesperson who seems
interesting but boring, but likewhat if it is something that I
should be looking into, right?
So I'm just really.
I'm just giving myself space totry new things with with grace,

(01:01:32):
and to forgive failures and toacknowledge them and to just say
like, yeah, it didn't work outand I'm going to be okay and I'm
going to try something else andI'm going to see where it leads
me.
That's hard, it's.
It's not easy to be that person.
It's not easy to be, just likerunning through the poppy fields

(01:01:53):
, but I'm I'm I'm interested tosee where it takes me for sure,
and I'm glad that you're a partof it.
I'm glad that you're here withme.

Sarah Caminiti (01:02:04):
We are in this together and I think that you
will go on TikTok in probablyseven minutes and it will have a
wildflower, uh, tarot card.

Sarah Hatter (01:02:14):
I think so too.
I think so too.
I'm open to it, but uh, SarahHatter.

Sarah Caminiti (01:02:22):
Thank you so much, thank you for hanging with
me here and thank you for doingthis I appreciate you.

Sarah Hatter (01:02:27):
I appreciate the work you're doing and continue
to do, even when it's hard.
The world needs more peoplelike you out here and especially
more platforms for people toshare their stories with freedom
, without judgment and withoutexpectation, and you're really
really providing that for people, so I'm really proud of you for
that.

Sarah Caminiti (01:02:44):
Thank you very much, Sarah.
I'm so proud of you andeverything that you've been
accomplishing in these couple ofmonths that we've been together
, and then the years before, butit's going to be a.
It's going to be a good era foryou.
I know that it is.
It already is, I hope so, butgo go lay down.
I'll thank you, um, but go golay down.

Sarah Hatter (01:03:02):
I'll uh thank you.

Sarah Caminiti (01:03:07):
Okay Listeners, how many of you have already
purchased tickets for Denverafter listening to Sarah Hatter?
I would not be surprised ifmost of you have, or maybe you
already have the tickets for theevent and you're just counting
down the days, we're 13 episodesinto this party.
If you've been with me on thisjourney episodes into this party
.
If you've been with me on thisjourney from day one, or if
you've been with me on thisjourney since before day one,

(01:03:28):
when I was navigating, beingguests on other people's awesome
podcasts, you know howimportant it is to be open to
change and to just trying.
You have just received amasterclass from Sarah Hatter on
what happens when you try.
She's built an entire community.
So if you've ever been on thefence about trying and trusting
your gut and seeing what happens, listen to this episode again,

(01:03:50):
because this is someone that,even if she had fear inside of
her, she said screw it.
She did it anyway and look whathappened.
She did it because she knewthat it needed to exist.
She wasn't doing it for fame.
She wasn't doing it for ego orfor fortune.
She was doing it just tocelebrate the people that are
around her.
We are so lucky to have SarahHatter in this community.

(01:04:15):
We are so lucky for ElevateCXand now we're in this really
cool space where it's being runby the community.
It has entered into a new eraof its own.
It's not all falling on Sarah'sshoulders to maintain and grow
and empower.
She's created this foundationthat's beautiful and special and
kind and thoughtful.

(01:04:35):
I mean, what she's created isEpochal and I can't wait to see
how it evolves.
If you're not part of theElevateCX community, please join
.
You're going to be seeing a lotof masterclasses popping up.
I'm going to be hosting a lotof masterclasses with a lot of
guests that are on this podcast.
We have the event in Denver,the event in London on November

(01:04:57):
8th.
There's going to be a women'ssummit that we're going to be
relaunching in 2025 in theNortheast.
Oh, in Providence with me.
Hi, I'm in Providence.
Sometimes you know when specialpeople are supposed to be in
your life and I've been luckyenough to have felt that in ways
I never really thought werepossible, but the level in which

(01:05:17):
I feel that for Sarah Hatter,there is not a word to describe
it.
Thank you for spending thistime with me, thank you for
being open to change and thankyou for celebrating Sarah Hatter
with me.
If you feel it in yourself thata better way exists, you owe it
to yourself and to those aroundyou to try, because look at
what happens when you do.
Thank you again to Buzzsprout.

(01:05:38):
I hope everyone was able toenjoy the new sound with this
beautiful microphone.
Thank you so much, priscilla.
Obviously, thank you toElevateCX.
You've changed my life.
Get the tickets, send memessages.
I want to hear from you.
Remember the small things.
Ignite change.
You're capable of so much morethan you realize.

(01:06:00):
Celebrate all that you do,thank you, thank you.
Thank you for this time.
Have a great day.