October 29, 2024 • 46 mins
Text me with feedback or questions!
Discover the transformative insights of Greg Collins, Vice President of Revenue at Boldr, as he shares his journey from SaaS to BPOs.
Learn how stepping outside conventional roles can lead to joy and growth in both personal and professional realms. Greg's conversation encourages us to focus on the intersection of talents and passions, offering guidance on creating a more fulfilling career path rather than merely chasing titles or companies.
Struggling with overcommitment and the pressure to please? Greg illuminates the importance of setting and communicating personal boundaries, introducing the concept of FOG—fear, obligation, and guilt—as a framework for decision-making. The episode underscores the power of radical candor in communication, emphasizing the need for caring enough to engage in conflict when necessary. Real-world anecdotes highlight how understanding one's needs and creating a supportive environment can lead to better leadership and healthier work-life balance.
Finally, we explore the significance of KPIs (Key Performance Indicators) in fostering meaningful team conversations, rather than just measuring success. Greg shares how setting a Big Hairy Audacious Goal (BHAG) can inspire a culture of curiosity and collaboration. We discuss the value of cultural fit and leadership transparency, offering strategies for evaluating these aspects during job searches. We close the conversation asking everyone to think about the ripple effect they make in their daily work and life. Those small ripples can change the world.
This episode provides reassurance on navigating career transitions and underscores the power of maintaining a supportive network amidst an ever-evolving job market.
“Change will not come if we wait for some other person, or if we wait for some other time. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek.”
- Barack Obama
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah Caminiti (00:07):
Welcome back listeners.
I'm Sarah Caminiti and I'm sohappy that you're here.
This is E Growth, the podcastwhere we dive deep into
transformative stories ofleadership and growth.
As we near the end of thisincredible season, I couldn't be
more excited to bring youtoday's guest.
Greg Collins is the VicePresident of Revenue at Boldr
and he brings a wealth ofexperience, from go-to-market
(00:31):
strategies to client success,and today we're diving into how
reflection, boundaries andcuriosity can redefine success,
both professionally andpersonally.
You won't want to miss thisconversation.
It's packed with insights thatwill inspire you to think
differently about your ownjourney.
So let's get into it.
Greg Collins (00:52):
Thanks, Sarah.
Thanks for the introduction.
I feel very special that you'veinvited me on, so thank you for
that.
Kindness Me, my background.
I'm Greg.
I'm this tall, my hair is thiscolor, I have four awesome
kiddos, I got a wife who's mybest friend and partner.
I feel blessed in just aboutevery aspect of my life.
(01:14):
I have been in software as aservice for most of my career
and about every piece of therevenue stream.
You can think, whether that'son the net new acquisition side
or the expansion or retention orsupport side.
Most recently, about a littleover a year ago, I transitioned
to a pure services business andthat was terrifying and it is so
(01:37):
much fun and it's not nearly asdifferent as you think.
They're nuances, like mostthings in life.
You can do it, just go do it,and I'm excited to be here and
share with your community as youjust continue to foster a
playground of ideas andcompassion and gratitude.
So excited to lean in and seeif I can be a part of that too.
Sarah Caminiti (01:55):
Yes, Thank you so much, Greg, and that
introduction just like gave melike a bajillion things that I
want to talk to you about, butso I won't just attack you with
questions right now, but it'llbe a slow crawl, I promise.
Greg Collins (02:08):
I was told there'd be no violence and I'm hoping
there's no math.
Sarah Caminiti (02:11):
Yeah, definitely none of that.
None of that will be here,mostly because my brain and math
just I would quit instantly andI don't want to put anyone
through that.
But I want to start thisconversation first by
acknowledging the gift that youhave given me.
Over these handful ofinteractions that we've had
Since I first met Greg listenersI have given myself space to
(02:35):
reflect in ways that I did notanticipate and in ways that I
didn't even know I was missing.
And, Greg, you opened this doorand I bombarded you with
incredibly long emails andreplies to every little quick
email that you sent me, becauseit always caught me off guard
how much I appreciated thesereflective moments that your
(03:02):
messages would give me, and,whether it was a quote or
whether it was a kind word,reflection is so important to
our growth and it's so importantto allow us to celebrate
ourselves and see how far we'vecome and why we've landed where
we are, and the little thingsthat may have been crappy in the
moment, what it's done to uslater on.
(03:22):
And so, first of all, I justwant to say thank you very much
for that gift.
Greg Collins (03:28):
Well, thank you, I appreciate that.
Sarah Caminiti (03:29):
And thank you also for replying to the emails
after I probably overwhelm yougreatly.
But the question.
Greg Collins (03:38):
Not overwhelming.
It's easy to engage withsomeone who is thoughtful and
curious and vulnerable.
If we could all do that in ourengagements, imagine what we
could accomplish together.
Sarah Caminiti (03:49):
Man, yes, that is so true.
It is because, if you letyourself be vulnerable, really
cool things happen.
You get to see that there'sother people that are around you
that are sharing similarjourneys and are experiencing
things and they all kind of wantto support each other, which we
see very often within thisethical growth space, which has
been really cool.
But, Greg, my question for youhere is in your I'll put a time
(04:17):
period on it to not make it toobroad, but like in the last like
couple of years, what sort ofimpact has reflection had on
where you found yourself in yourcareer, especially since you
went into a totally new spacethat ended up not really being a
crazy new space in the end?
Greg Collins (04:37):
Thank you for that question.
Um, I think reflection for methrough some both personal and
professional tragedy, as well assuccess, has helped me step out
of the confines of differenttitles or companies or
(05:00):
expectations and focus on theintersection of what brings me
joy and what talents I have.
Wow, yeah, there's there's,self-admittedly, an advantage of
having the experience I have.
That gives me, um, a little bitmore flexibility versus when
you're, you know, in your firstjob, where you've been there a
(05:20):
year or two and you'refrustrated and you want to move.
So self-awareness has really,really grown and from that I've
started to look at havingboundaries as a strength and not
as a limiting selfishness ormeanness towards others.
(05:41):
So I think having someboundaries and having some
better understanding of where Ican help others and what brings
me joy has probably propelled myhappiness but also my success
versus I look at some of thefailures and I was not chasing
generally the service of others.
I want that title at thatcompany because it will unlock
(06:04):
that uh uh thing and it it.
Just I knew it wouldn't worklike that and I pushed ahead
anyways.
Um, and it was.
It was a painful lesson tolearn, especially when you
already knew it, but you're like, I knew it anyway.
Um.
So I think reflection um hasgiven me the permission to
accept the things I did wrong,except, uh, the boundaries that
I want to create for my ownhealth, and then just really
(06:29):
kind of lean in and focus onwhat are the skills, what are
the joys versus, what are thetitles or what are the companies
or what are the functions.
Sarah Caminiti (06:36):
What a great takeaway from that.
It is so true I mean, we'veseen this with so many different
people that have gifted metheir time on this show where
once they've kind of allowedthemselves to pause and think,
okay, what was it about thisspace that didn't feel right?
Or what was it about this spacethat really did feel right, and
(06:57):
how can I lean into that more,how can I celebrate that more?
The opportunities that startedcoming in because they were
being genuine to themselves andthey were being true to
themselves and just kind ofgiving themselves the space to
try things that they may nothave allowed themselves to think
were possible before, justcontinues to pay itself off,
(07:20):
like over and over again andjust enforce the fact that you
have to.
You have to give yourself thatspace to to be who you want to
be in a way that's respectfuland thinking of others that you
get to achieve really cool butoften different than expected
(07:41):
successes.
Greg Collins (07:43):
Yeah, it's almost like when you get into college
or you're finishing up highschool and they're like what
college do you want to go to?
And I hope they still don't dothis nonsense.
The guidance counselor makesyou take a test and then tells
you which jobs you should have.
Sarah Caminiti (08:02):
Oh, yeah, oh, I'm sure that's still sticking
around and then tells you whichjobs you should have.
Greg Collins (08:05):
Oh yeah, oh, I'm sure that's still sticking
around.
That's a tragedy.
Getting out of that frameworkor trap of this is the title, or
this is the job, or this is theindustry.
And more into I was leaving onejob and a previous boss of mine
(08:25):
.
I was talking to her and shesaid Greg, I just think you need
to do the basic thing of getout a piece of paper and draw a
T On the left-hand side.
Write what you get at On theright-hand side, what brings you
joy, look for the intersectionand go hunt that.
Stop looking for titles, stopworrying about the career
progression.
(08:47):
I don't know about others, but Iknow my happiness goes up the
last time I spend on LinkedIn.
It's kind of like the Instagram.
Yes, everyone has an incrediblevacation home and their life is
perfect and every job isamazing.
There's a lot of pretense therethat I think misguides our
expectations, and so I thinklooking internally to then go
(09:08):
search externally is becomingharder and harder to do.
But maybe podcasts like thishelps people remember to look
inwards and focus on theirstrengths and their joys versus
the expectations of others.
Sarah Caminiti (09:21):
No, I couldn't agree more of others.
No, I couldn't agree more.
And I think that embracingcommunity outside of like a
virtual like you know best footforward version of yourself
community and LinkedIn, onsocial media and the various
forms but like actually acommunity where you can be
vulnerable, you can say, hey, isthis a normal thing or is this
(09:45):
just like a weird thing that'shappening?
Greg Collins (09:49):
Is this me?
Is this me?
Yeah, be prepared.
Sometimes the answer is yes,sometimes it is you.
Sarah Caminiti (09:55):
It is, it is, but you can have really cool
conversations and they're honestconversations and so many times
, especially in the SaaS space,the tech space, everything is
very similar.
It's a pretty standard formulafor how things operate, even if
they all have very differenttitles associated with it.
(10:18):
I mean, I always crack up atthe different ways that people
like to promote a customersupport role.
I've been a happiness expert inone job, thank you, thank you.
It was a really big deal for me.
But you're right.
I mean, the titles don't matter.
In the grand scheme of things,it is the work that you produce
(10:38):
and the impact that you can havewithin the space, and if you're
doing it in a way that is trueto your core values, then it's
just you get so much more out ofit.
Greg Collins (10:51):
I also think it's good to be honest about your
objective, like with yourself,because job hopping or title
hunting, if your objective is toget to another place, I'm fine
with that.
Let's go make sure that I getthe manager or the director or
the deep title, because I got todo this, this and this.
I think it's just being clearthat what is your plan and what
(11:12):
are you willing to sacrifice forthat?
Sarah Caminiti (11:15):
Giving a journey to you, like allowing yourself
a journey to figure it out.
I mean, ask 22-year-old me whatis the ultimate goal and I will
tell you a million times overit is not leading and building
support teams and tech companies, mostly because I had no idea
that that was a thing?
Greg Collins (11:32):
yeah, I, I didn't play that in the backyard as a
kid no, no, that was not.
Sarah Caminiti (11:36):
that was not a halloween costume that I put
myself in year after year.
Um, but we have no idea whatthe future holds and what the
little teams are that are goingto start popping up and emerging
.
And if you are always beingcognizant of your skills and
(11:56):
your passions and the thingsthat you don't like, that you
don't want to compromise on, andletting yourself set that
boundary, then you can spotthose things when they do pop up
in a much easier way and startto think, hey, maybe this is
something that could actuallywork for me.
I've never heard of this beforeand start asking questions
(12:18):
Something you said earlier, greg, about boundaries.
I would love to know from youhow you found the best way to
approach setting boundaries,because it can go south fast.
You can be perceived as a bitof a dick sometimes if you're
setting boundaries, and how haveyou found success setting those
(12:39):
in a way that is respectful butstill firm?
Greg Collins (12:43):
Yeah, so I think it's.
So.
First of all, I'm not going toprofess that I'm the expert to
write a book here, but I canshare what usually works for me
when I execute it well, and I'dsay it's two pieces.
It's one first, internally whatare my boundaries?
And there's two how do Icommunicate them?
So, internally, a phrase that Iwas given once upon a time is
(13:04):
fog, the acronym fog, fear,obligation and guilt.
Are you making decisions out ofplace of fog?
Am I saying yes at a fear?
Am I saying yes at anobligation?
Am I saying yes at a guilt?
Sarah Caminiti (13:22):
That's a good one, Holy Hi my name is Greg.
Greg Collins (13:25):
I've been around about 47 years and I am a
pleaser.
I am a pleaser, and pleasershave a tendency to attract
takers Both in theirprofessional life and in their
personal life.
And the personal life we'll setaside.
But on the professional life, Idon't think it's nefarious.
(13:47):
But if you're smart and youwork hard and you're a pleaser,
it's very easy to be takenadvantage of.
Yes, so for me, just to havefog as a framework is good.
Am I saying yes to my boss, tothis colleague, to this client,
out of fog?
If so, that's an immediate stepI can reevaluate.
Doesn't mean you don't do it,but now at least I'm aware.
(14:08):
Maybe I have to do this andthere's a very real consequence
and I should fear it.
But at least I'm conscious ofwhy I'm making, what is my
decision framework, what isdriving it forward.
So fog has been helpful for mein my journey and just setting
boundaries and makingclear-minded decisions.
Why am I doing it Fog?
The second thing is tocommunicate it.
(14:30):
I think a very well-knownparadigm or framework would be a
radical candor.
If you haven't read it outthere, it's a great book, it's
worth reading.
If you don't like to read,google and you'll find a video
and they'll tell you in fiveminutes reading If you don't
like to read.
You know Google and you'll finda video and notes.
I am five minutes, but I thinkthere is great strength in
service and caring enough tohave conflict.
(14:52):
Yeah, caring enough to haveconflict is how I would
summarize radical candor Versus.
I think so often, especially asa pleaser, it's tempting to live
in that ruinous empathy,whereas I just want you to be
happy, I want it right, but it'sjust a disservice.
So for me, going into a lens ofconflict, it's not about
(15:14):
winning, it's not the fixed pie,it's not right or wrong.
We talked about that incrediblebook, the 15 Commitments of
Conscious Leadership.
Which is above the line orbelow the line?
Below the line, I need to beright and I'm defensive.
Above the line, we talked abouta word you used a little bit
ago am I curious, right?
(15:34):
Am I having fun?
Am I curious?
Am I trying to find thesolution or am I trying to be
right?
So I think, when dealing withconflict, if I care enough and
my goal is to be of service, notto be right then the conflict
has a tendency to go away.
And if it didn't, I think thatsays more about the person I'm
(15:54):
speaking to than it does aboutme.
Sarah Caminiti (15:56):
Oh man, you just summed that up so perfectly.
Yes, and that is something thatwe all need to think about
often, where we don't have tohold that bottom line
responsibility for how someoneelse perceives us If we are
approaching situations and weare curious, we are open and
(16:17):
we're firm.
You know we.
We have to be true to our.
You know we have to think aboutourselves, we have to respect
ourselves enough to be firm, butwe're so respectful and and
provide context and if it'sstill not perceived well and the
other person is not open intohaving a conversation about why
it wasn't perceived well, that'snot on you.
Greg Collins (16:37):
No.
And then yeah, yeah.
So one of the things I learnedwe talked about the reflective
period and then where I am whatI learned is how important to
write a leadership culture wasfor me in joining a company Not
placing judgment on what is goodculture or bad culture, just
culture and my definition ofwhere I thrive, understanding my
(16:57):
personality and what kind ofleadership team I need to be
surrounded, what kind of safeenvironment I need, what safety
for me.
That was a big piece of it.
And David, our CEO and founderof Boldr.
And David, our CEO and founderof Boldr, is phenomenal in the
EQ and IQ.
Where I am in a place where Ican share.
(17:18):
Hey, these are my tendencies andI will sometimes overcommit out
of fog, but it happened lastweek where he's like, hey, I
need this, this and this and myplate was full and there's no
way.
And I'm like, yeah, yeah,absolutely, I can get that done.
And then I get the phone andthen, like an hour later, I need
this, this and this and myplate was full and there's no
way.
And I'm like, yeah, yeah,absolutely, I can get that done.
And then I get the phone andthen, like an hour later, I'm
stressed out about it and I likekind of take my breath and
(17:40):
think about fog and what can Ido, and I'm like, hey, this is
only conflict if you're scaredof the result versus you're
trying to.
Actually I jumped into solutionspace and it's just not healthy
for either one of us.
I dropped this on our one-on-onedoc for next Monday.
Can we tackle it then?
And for him to come back andsay, yeah, great, talk to you on
(18:04):
Monday.
Thanks so much, versus.
In the past I wouldn't have hadthose boundaries and I would
have assessed about it andworked on it, woke up at 2.15,
worked on it again.
So I share that in a way of tokind of mill those two things
around boundaries, but not alljust being reflective of how is
(18:24):
it for me I can practicallyapply those in my day to day.
But if I don't do that it'skind of selfish and
self-destructive because Ididn't help David achieve his
objectives.
I certainly wasn't a goodservant to my team to put them
in a position to win, and youcan see how that then ripples
out to our clients.
So I think just even thoselittle, kind of small decisions
(18:45):
of am I trying to be of serviceand what are my boundaries are
actually really healthy ways toserve others.
Sarah Caminiti (18:50):
Definitely it parallels well to something that
I've really kind of I thinkabout all the time, and that's
assumptions.
And what is an assumption?
And I mean, aside from what dowe know about assumptions?
It makes an ass out of you andme, me and you, whatever one it
is.
But really assumptions areshowing someone that you don't
(19:14):
care enough to find out ifyou're doing it right, if there
is urgency to it.
You don't care enough to giveyourself the grace to pause and
to take it off of your shoulders, and that could be fear, that
could be trauma.
There could be so many reasonsfor why you jumped to an
(19:35):
assumption, but I think ofassumptions like a Mad Lib, like
you were given a Mad Lib and anassumption.
You're just, you're putting inthose random words and you don't
really know what it's going tolook like in the end because you
don't have all the facts,because you were curious enough
to find out what those factswere, and so your boss, you know
(19:56):
not really feeling that needingto, needing you to feel that
urgency for that project,because you were curious enough
to ask is this something thatneeds to happen right now?
And by asking if you can talkabout it next week, like if you
didn't do that, you were fillingout that mad lib as if this was
on fire and it would have beena totally different project than
(20:18):
than if you would have donewhat you did and taken the time
to actually pause and and sitwith it.
Greg Collins (20:27):
Not only that, I discovered I'd already done it
and it was a different projectand just hadn't told anybody.
Sarah Caminiti (20:31):
Yet and if you made an assumption, then you
would have made somethingtotally new, yeah, but it hits
you in the butt and you end uphurting yourself more in the end
than because you're not just,like you were saying, with the
service.
You are not providing a serviceto someone if you're hoping for
(20:55):
the best and just doingsomething and making a best
guess about what it is thatactually needs to happen.
No, if you're wanting toprovide a service, you
understand something fully.
You ask thoughtful questions,you have conversations, you
gather the facts and sometimesyou have to do that in
iterations because the timelinedoesn't allow you to thoroughly
(21:15):
investigate all the differentways that that web can go.
But be cognizant of that.
Say, this is what I can do rightnow, but I know in a couple of
months I'm going to spend sometime to look and see what the
impact is for this and this andthis and this, and don't just
walk away from it, becausenobody wins when something isn't
(21:36):
done completely.
Too many companies, I feel nowespecially I mean I've just been
kind of introduced to it moreso especially lean into that MVP
a little bit too heavily and Ilearned recently that MVP was
not most valuable player andthat's a cruel, a cruel thing
(21:57):
that they have done with thosethree letters.
But no, it's, nobody wins.
People just get so stressed.
Greg Collins (22:05):
They do, they do OKRs, nbos, all of the different
things KPIs, KPIs.
Sarah Caminiti (22:10):
MBOs, all of the different things.
Greg Collins (22:11):
KPIs.
Sarah Caminiti (22:12):
So many KPIs, so many KPIs.
Greg Collins (22:16):
TLAs.
You know that one.
Oh, that's a bad joke, sarah.
Three-letter acronym TLA.
Kpis, mbos it's a funny way tomake.
It's a three-letter acronym aTLA, oh, three-letter.
You know what?
It's a bad joke.
It's a three-letter acronym a.
Sarah Caminiti (22:29):
TLA, oh, three-letter.
You know what it's a bad joke.
Greg Collins (22:33):
It's a bad joke, it's not mine.
Sarah Caminiti (22:35):
Thank you for saying it's a bad joke, instead
of just acknowledging the factthat my brain broke when you
said that and I had nowhere togo with that it is.
It is a TLA.
It's a three-letter acronym.
Yeah, there's too many of them.
Greg Collins (22:48):
The bad joke you will hear me say in a lot of
meetings internally is they'recalled KPIs, not KPEs.
They're indicators, notexplainers.
Sarah Caminiti (22:57):
Why are we measuring it?
Huh, I like that.
I like that to like if you'regoing into a space that does
need some improvements andpeople have not been able to
(23:18):
understand what is required ofthem in order to define, kind of
, what good is, then once youdefine what good is and you're
actually able to celebrate andmove forward and find other ways
to take it to the next level,then those KPIs kind of have to
get put on a shelf, as thishelped us.
Now we're where we need to be.
We were able to acknowledgethings, motivate people the way
(23:39):
that maybe they needed to bemotivated.
But now we're done.
Greg Collins (23:45):
I like to use just a handful of KPIs and I like to
look at them, not in terms ofam I hitting the benchmark, but
what is the trend, is it goingup or is it going down and I try
and find ones that are againindicators that tell me if I
need to start looking further.
For the explanation Again,they're KPIs, not KPEs is.
(24:09):
When I was at Zendesk, we wereworking really hard to try and
reduce the amount of effort ouradvocates were using to serve
our clients, and so we had Imean, you know how many metrics
you have in support.
The one we landed on as aleadership team is let's focus
on requests for wait time,because we thought that was a
(24:31):
singular metric that we couldwatch going up or down.
That actually told us multiplethings, and the two most
important things are what is theimpact to the client, how much
time are they waiting and whatis the effort that the advocate
is doing so for us in thatparticular ecosystem at that
time and our goals andobjectives.
Watching that one KPI ofwhether it was trending up or
(24:55):
trending down then gave usindicators of how the different
projects we were working on,whether it was a knowledge base,
whether it was our answer,response engines, all the
different strategies we had tiedinto a KPI that let us know if
it was going up or down, whichallowed us to have a
conversation at a high level ofwhether we were succeeding, not.
Is it 0.2 or 0.4?
No, and the 50 KPIs that areunderneath it, with all the
(25:20):
projects that are trying todrive the high level one.
Sarah Caminiti (25:22):
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Oh, I like that.
I think that that's reallyvaluable because, with KPIs, the
(26:07):
best thing that I've seen fromthem is they offer opportunities
for conversations when thoseconversations were sometimes
difficult to figure out how toarticulate beforehand.
And if you have a goal in mindand you're able to define the
goal with your team andeverybody understands the
reasons for the goal and you'retracking it and you're
(26:28):
monitoring it, you can start tohave better conversations to be
like hey, actually this wentdown because of this blocker
that came up.
Oh, let's look into thisblocker and see what's going on
there, and it may have been alittle bit trickier to get to
that point without that.
Greg Collins (26:48):
I think the power of KPIs is to facilitate
conversation and discovery, notto determine success.
Yep.
Sarah Caminiti (26:54):
Agree 100%.
Greg Collins (26:55):
But they're often used as determining success.
Yes, and if you achieve it well, then we need to make it higher
, and if you don't, then you'repunished.
Yes, and it's just a misuse ofthe concept.
Sarah Caminiti (27:09):
Yep, no definitely.
Greg Collins (27:10):
Are we, as a company and as a strategy
department of division,improving or not?
Sarah Caminiti (27:15):
Yep, yeah, yeah.
That is something that peopledon't talk about often is what
happens when that KPI is reached.
What's the next step?
Like do you celebrate?
Do you sit in it?
Do you just see what happenswhen everybody is at a good
foundational level?
No, sit in it.
Do you just see what happenswhen everybody is at a good
foundational level?
No, you say, well, now you're afailure again because I've just
(27:39):
upped the ante and you're allin the red because nobody's
hitting it.
Greg Collins (27:41):
So what are you going to do?
So I did something a littlecrazy, but I didn't anyways.
When I joined Boldr, I joinedhalfway through Q1.
So all the MBOs from mydivision are already set right.
You're inheriting them.
So now I'm I don't know 30, 45days in and we got to set the
MBOs for the next quarter andI'm like I just found the
bathroom.
Sarah Caminiti (28:02):
Wait, you can't define those already.
Come on, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so on one metric I said Iput a BHAG, I put a B hack, I
(28:26):
put a big crazy number up therethat I did not think I could hit
at all, but I put it up thereand in the notes, behind the
definition of the MBO I put,success would be determined if I
can tell you why I hit it orwhy I missed it, not if I hit it
or miss it.
Wow, what a great introductionto who you are as a leader by
having that be how you'resetting the tone.
Greg Collins (28:35):
And then every other week, when I went into the
leadership meeting and had toupdate, I had about five
different strategies that weresupporting that one MBO, which
had a very black and white KPI,and I talked about why it was
going up or why it was goingdown, instead of I hit it or I'm
on track.
Sarah Caminiti (28:54):
You were learning about the company
through this metric, like deepdive, because you were
knowledgeable, you were able totalk about it, you were able to
be confident in when you wereexplaining it and sharing why
things maybe weren't going well,or an experiment that you
wanted to try and see theresults for it's.
But I just I love that you camein for a leadership role in a
(29:21):
company that wasn't your typicalspace and, instead of saying
you know, asserting yourdominance, or instead of being
quiet, you said you know whatI'm going to.
I'm going to just set a tonehere.
I'm Greg.
I like to have conversations, Ilike to experiment, I like to
(29:42):
see what's possible and I liketo understand things fully.
And in order to do that, I'mgoing to set this lofty goal,
and I know it's probably notgoing to happen, and that's
totally okay, because we'regoing to get to talk about goal.
And I know it's probably notgoing to happen, and that's
totally okay, because we'regoing to get to talk about why
it's not happening or why it ishappening, and that's going to
be a really cool place for us tobe.
Greg Collins (30:01):
I don't know if I said it quite like that, but if
I ever need an agent, I'm goingto give you a call.
Can I bring you to my nextleadership meeting now to
introduce my objectives, sarah?
Um, back to the culture piece,though.
Um, it, it, it.
I I needed to find a companythat had a leadership team that
attacked problems, not people,and I found that here at Boldr
(30:24):
it is.
It is a leadership team thatleans into challenges
collectively, instead ofassigning blame and taking
credit, which is a hard thing tofind at a, at a leadership team
.
Um, but yeah, there's a,there's a team that has that
curiosity, that so there's anenvironment that allows me to do
that.
I just say that because, um,not every job I've had I could
(30:45):
walk in.
It's not a reflection of me and, wow, look look at that leader
and that new tactic he's goingto write a book.
No, no, I had an environmentthat was welcoming to that kind
of thought and approach.
So, yeah, read the room is, Iguess, the second piece of
advice before you do somethinglike that.
Sarah Caminiti (31:05):
Read the room?
Yes, for sure, and but you didsay something that I think is so
true.
And in this bizarre job marketthat so many people are finding
themselves in, being able toread a room and understand what
that leadership team is like andhow that impacts a company can
be so overwhelming and sometimesdeceiving, and I'm glad that
(31:29):
you found a place that actuallytheir actions spoke louder than
their words and uh, and they,they allow everybody to shine in
a way that's just supportive,because that's really important.
Greg Collins (31:40):
That's a special thing.
Do you do you have, uh, anykind of um go-to approaches or
questions to try and suss outthe culture of a company or a
room, Just like I'm?
I'm getting so many phone callsfrom people who are looking for
a new opportunity, and so it'sa common question I'm fielding
as far as what should I look for, and my bias is to say you
(32:03):
should start with culture first.
So you have to know what kindof culture you want.
But do you have any tips ortricks or successes or failures
in terms of going and findingculture questions?
Sarah Caminiti (32:13):
Yeah, that's such a great thing because a lot
of companies and I am going tosound negative when I say this,
but I think maybe I need tosound negative when I say this A
lot of companies know how tosay the right thing and they
know how to present the culturequestions in a very positive way
.
And the realities are often verydifferent and what I have
(32:35):
learned with my most recent jobexperience hunting experience is
I went in bold, I went inconfident and I went in like not
thinking.
I am so grateful that you tookthis time to meet with me.
I approached it as I am aleader who is skilled and I'm
(32:59):
glad to be here to talk to you,but I'm not going to hold back
and to be able to read a room.
When you approach somethingconfidently tells you more about
the people that you're going tobe surrounding yourselves with
than any question that you canask, because you just showed
them who you are and are theyopen to that, or or are they
(33:23):
going to to try to take littlebits of that away because you
don't want that?
Greg Collins (33:30):
yeah.
Sarah Caminiti (33:31):
Yeah.
Greg Collins (33:32):
I like that.
Sarah Caminiti (33:34):
And I will say this too One of the coolest
things of it is I let myself beknown from the very beginning
and that allowed me to ask thosedifficult questions or those
taboo-ish questions Like I'm notlooking to have another child,
but I did ask about what theparental leave policies are,
because I think that that says alot about how companies treat
their employees.
Looking to have another child,but I did ask about what the
(33:54):
parental leave policies areBecause I think that that says a
lot about how companies treattheir employees.
I asked about the hybridenvironment and how flexible
things are.
I said I'm a mom.
What's it going to be like whenI have to go and pick up my kid
because he's sick?
Can I talk to another momthat's been with the company for
a while and understand what herexperience has been like here?
And they just they answered allof these things so thoughtfully
(34:16):
.
And the people on the other endas soon as I got off the call,
they would email me or theywould call me the person that
was my talent acquisition person.
She sent me a pep talk emailright before I did a
presentation and said she wasthinking about me and those
little things matter.
(34:37):
They are.
They are.
They're showing you who theyreally are in those times where
it could be difficult or itcould be unnecessary.
And uh, and I went to work fora company that is totally not
where I saw myself working.
I'm not in SaaS anymore Me too.
It's a ride.
(34:57):
It is such a ride, but if you'rein a place where you feel like
you're around good people, itdoesn't matter what it is Like.
Good people are good people andthey make you want to be better
.
Greg Collins (35:11):
Agreed.
Thanks for sharing that.
Sarah Caminiti (35:19):
Yeah, no problem , I hope that.
I hope that the people that, uh, that reach out to you and that
says so much about who you are,that people are reaching out to
you right, because it's youknow, it's it's a crazy world
out there, but you have to bevulnerable to reach out to
people and, uh, people arereaching out to you because
you've shown them that that's anokay thing in your space.
Greg Collins (35:36):
Can I do something that wasn't planned?
Do it.
Let's talk about getting fired,because that is multiple calls
a month from people who gotdownsized.
They got let go.
They're just miserable.
They took the job because theyhad to have one, not because
it's what they wanted, and thefirst 30 minutes is the same
(36:01):
conversation which is gettingthem past the shame of being let
go.
Yep.
So I'll just say on recordeveryone you've met has been
fired.
They just haven't told you I'vebeen fired.
It's okay, you're going to befired.
I was talking to someone in hismid fifties who was just given a
three month exit.
So it's a lovely firing right.
(36:22):
And he's like I've never beenfired.
I'm like sure you have.
He's like no, I've never beenfired.
I'm like, of course you have.
He's like no, I'm like he.
He was surprised again, like wetease that sometimes linkedin
can be used like instagram, thateveryone has a beautiful house
and cars and vacation homes anda yacht.
Um, no one wants to put thatout there, but there are so many
(36:42):
reasons that a company will letyou go, whether it's a
different boss, a differentstrategy, maybe their P&L and
EBITDA has changed.
There's all these differentthings that I just want to
remove this stigma of being letgo.
You're working for decades,things happen, it's okay.
So I have that conversationwith people a lot.
I'm like no, I've been firedtoo, it's okay.
(37:04):
It doesn't mean you didsomething wrong, it doesn't mean
you're incompetent.
It's called life, it's okay.
Take a deep breath, rub somedirt on it.
Next let's go.
Sarah Caminiti (37:13):
And the cool thing because I've been having a
lot of conversations withpeople as well that have been
impacted in various ways, fromcompanies that are ending their
contract for whatever reason,and and what I've I've I've
started to really remind folksis the people that I've met that
were also impacted in the goingon to do things that they never
(37:35):
thought that was it waspossible, like it has been with
my last episode.
The Elise was when we firstrecorded in May.
She had recently been let go.
She had been with the companyfor eight years.
She was an excellent employee.
There was nothing wrong with her, nothing wrong whatsoever.
She did nothing wrong.
But she was let go and so hermindset, her space, was just
(37:58):
nervous but also curious, andshe committed to going out of
her comfort zone and doingcoffee chats and meeting new
people and talking to people andgiving yourself that time that
you don't have when you're inthe grind.
And we had to redo her erabefore her episode was released,
because the day that herseverance ran out was her first
(38:21):
day at this job.
that totally changed the jobdescription and the requirements
to meet her and fit her, andthey're just so excited to have
her on board leading this hugeteam and doing all these
incredible things.
None of that would havehappened, though, if she would
have stayed where she was, andnone of it would have happened
(38:43):
if she didn't start askingquestions about what it is that
she loves to do and what'smeaningful to her, and I think
that that's a message that,while it seems cliche and it
seems like I'm just trying tocheer you up, it's the reality.
It really is.
Things happen.
It's an opportunity to evaluateand reflect and be cognizant of
(39:08):
what it is that you want toprovide this world, and then
also how your actions impactothers and what are the
boundaries, and once you kind ofdefine those, you start to look
at job descriptions differently.
Greg Collins (39:24):
You do to that a threat, I would add, is when I
was younger and, uh, building mycareer and getting out there,
everyone said, greg, you got anetwork, you got a network.
You always get your next job bynetworking, network, network,
network, your, your, your jobsecurity and your career is only
as good as your network.
And I didn't hear them.
And, uh, I but I wish I used tokind of lament and beat myself
(39:49):
up that I didn't network harder.
And then we all get busy withour jobs and you just don't
network.
But, um, akin to why I wasexcited that you asked me if I'd
be willing to to meet andparticipate today is if, if you
know the old question, whatwould you tell yourself?
If you were, I would have said,um, don't always be, network,
constantly be looking for waysto be of help, yes, networking
(40:13):
for networking sake.
I don't know.
You say networking.
Or someone says, oh, you'regoing to network.
I'm like, oh, that's exhausting, I don't want to do that, it's
insincere, it's exhausting.
But my great opportunities havecome from just being kind and
giving.
And it comes and finds you.
So I guess I would have toldmyself when I was younger,
(40:33):
instead of always beingnetworking, just always being
helpful.
Just look for ways to behelpful.
Sarah Caminiti (40:39):
Yep, yep, quietly, loudly.
However it is that makes sensefor the situation.
Be open to saying yes to peoplethat are coming to you, because
if anybody is coming to youasking a question or if anyone's
just asking a question to theuniverse, they are taking a risk
.
And how would you feel if youwere on the other end of that
(41:03):
and making the leap to startposting on social media about
stuff that's not rosy and shinyand yacht driven is scary.
But to do it and then see, holycow, this really meant a lot to
me.
Holy cow, can we talk aboutthis?
Can we get on a call to talkabout this?
You start to see, oh, that riskactually helps somebody with
(41:25):
their journey and their day.
And now I'm excited to continueto help other people see that
they should be proud ofthemselves or they should do all
of these little things, andit's just, it's a really cool
ripple effect.
Greg Collins (41:40):
Ripple effect.
I like that analogy.
Sarah Caminiti (41:42):
Yeah, yeah, I do too.
Greg Collins (41:44):
What's my ripple today?
Sarah Caminiti (41:46):
Your ripple is that you are helping a lot of
people.
That is a pretty cool ripple.
Greg Collins (41:52):
Oh, I meant that for all of us.
What an interesting way to endmy day.
We started this conversationwith being reflective, and what
has it done for me.
What an interesting frameworkit would be, at the end of each
of my day, to say what was myripple.
Sarah Caminiti (42:06):
That's a good one to do with my kids too.
What?
Greg Collins (42:08):
was my ripple.
Sarah Caminiti (42:11):
Yeah, man, I really like that, I like that a
lot.
Greg Collins (42:16):
That is uh we should do a podcast.
Sarah Caminiti (42:19):
Yeah, what, what ?
Where did that come from?
That was left field.
Uh, no, that is.
Uh.
This could be the the name ofthis podcast episode, though,
because, yeah, because, dang,greg, like being able to give
yourself the space to reflect onyour day, and not in a way of
(42:41):
how it served you, in a way ofhow it served others is a pretty
awesome way to end your day,and then, what kind of mindset
will you be in when you startyour day?
Greg Collins (42:52):
I'm really excited about this, sarah.
I notice when I'm in ruts orfrustrated, it's because I
started my day from a positionof anxiety, of things I need to
get done, or I'm worried aboutit.
But when I start my day and Iget my cup of coffee and I let
my dog out and I say what am Igrateful for today?
When I start my day in apractice of gratitude I'm sorry,
(43:13):
gratitude there's a directcorrelation to how my day goes.
So I wonder if I bookend it, ifI start my morning with a
practice of gratitude, even ifit is something significant or
something very significant, andI end it with what was my ripple
?
Who did I impact?
What would that set me up forthe next day?
Sarah Caminiti (43:31):
Gosh, the world could be a pretty cool place if
that ripple started to rippleand it caught on, because,
getting people to start thinkingabout how did they impact
others as they conclude theirday, that could open up a lot of
really cool conversations.
Yeah, thank you for that.
Looking you, thank you droppingit like it's hot, so, uh, I
(43:55):
think I also said that to you inan email and then yes, you did
I did.
And then I said I am so sorrythat I said that.
And what am I doing?
Greg Collins (44:02):
just saying that here, sarah, you be you.
There's enough others in thisworld.
Sarah Caminiti (44:07):
It's true, it's true, you are uh, you're getting
the full, the full pictureright now.
Um so, Greg, after that littleparty, I got to ask you like I
ask all the guests that gift mewith their time here on the show
what era do you find yourselfin, or what era are you entering
right now?
Greg Collins (44:24):
I would say exploration.
Sarah Caminiti (44:27):
That's a good era.
That's a good era.
That's a curious era.
I mean you can't really gowrong with that.
Greg Collins (44:36):
I am.
There's that idea that the moreyou learn about something, the
more you realize how little youknow.
The more you learn aboutsomething, the more you realize
how little you know I'm.
I'm realizing just how little Iknow about myself and how
(44:57):
little I know about what I coulddo to be a positive impact to
others, and so I would say I'min an era of exploration.
How is it I can betterunderstand my gifts and talents
and how they impact others?
So I can double down on thatand be intentional.
Sarah Caminiti (45:12):
I think we're going to have to have a
follow-up in a handful of monthsand kind of circle back to this
and see what you've uncovered,because I think we could learn a
lot from that.
Greg Collins (45:21):
Let's do.
It Sounds like fun.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you and Iappreciate what you.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you and Iappreciate what you're doing on
this podcast.
Uh, it's um.
The more people that shinelights, the the brighter the
world, so thanks for that.
Sarah Caminiti (45:33):
Thank you, greg, and thank you for your time and
for your openness and for yourconversation.
I um, I think the world is abetter place because you're in
it and uh, and I'm grateful foryou.
Thank you, have a wonderful day.
Thank you, you too.
See you later.
What a powerful conversation tohave as we wrap up this season
of Epochal Growth.
Greg's reflection on leadership, boundaries and service reminds
(45:56):
us that success isn't justabout hitting numbers.
It's about understanding thewhy behind everything that we do
.
As we head towards the finalepisodes of this season, I
encourage you to take Greg'swisdom to heart Reflect, set
boundaries and stay curiousabout how you can make an impact
in your work and life.
(46:16):
Thank you so much for tuning inand remember your era of growth
is always evolving.
Until next time, keep showingup, keep leading and keep
growing.
I'm Sarah Caminiti.
Have a great day.
Welcome back listeners.
I'm Sarah Caminiti and I'm sohappy that you're here.
This is E Growth, the podcastwhere we dive deep into
transformative stories ofleadership and growth.
As we near the end of thisincredible season, I couldn't be
more excited to bring youtoday's guest.
Greg Collins is the VicePresident of Revenue at Boldr
and he brings a wealth ofexperience, from go-to-market
(00:31):
strategies to client success,and today we're diving into how
reflection, boundaries andcuriosity can redefine success,
both professionally andpersonally.
You won't want to miss thisconversation.
It's packed with insights thatwill inspire you to think
differently about your ownjourney.
So let's get into it.
Greg Collins (00:52):
Thanks, Sarah.
Thanks for the introduction.
I feel very special that you'veinvited me on, so thank you for
that.
Kindness Me, my background.
I'm Greg.
I'm this tall, my hair is thiscolor, I have four awesome
kiddos, I got a wife who's mybest friend and partner.
I feel blessed in just aboutevery aspect of my life.
(01:14):
I have been in software as aservice for most of my career
and about every piece of therevenue stream.
You can think, whether that'son the net new acquisition side
or the expansion or retention orsupport side.
Most recently, about a littleover a year ago, I transitioned
to a pure services business andthat was terrifying and it is so
(01:37):
much fun and it's not nearly asdifferent as you think.
They're nuances, like mostthings in life.
You can do it, just go do it,and I'm excited to be here and
share with your community as youjust continue to foster a
playground of ideas andcompassion and gratitude.
So excited to lean in and seeif I can be a part of that too.
Sarah Caminiti (01:55):
Yes, Thank you so much, Greg, and that
introduction just like gave melike a bajillion things that I
want to talk to you about, butso I won't just attack you with
questions right now, but it'llbe a slow crawl, I promise.
Greg Collins (02:08):
I was told there'd be no violence and I'm hoping
there's no math.
Sarah Caminiti (02:11):
Yeah, definitely none of that.
None of that will be here,mostly because my brain and math
just I would quit instantly andI don't want to put anyone
through that.
But I want to start thisconversation first by
acknowledging the gift that youhave given me.
Over these handful ofinteractions that we've had
Since I first met Greg listenersI have given myself space to
(02:35):
reflect in ways that I did notanticipate and in ways that I
didn't even know I was missing.
And, Greg, you opened this doorand I bombarded you with
incredibly long emails andreplies to every little quick
email that you sent me, becauseit always caught me off guard
how much I appreciated thesereflective moments that your
(03:02):
messages would give me, and,whether it was a quote or
whether it was a kind word,reflection is so important to
our growth and it's so importantto allow us to celebrate
ourselves and see how far we'vecome and why we've landed where
we are, and the little thingsthat may have been crappy in the
moment, what it's done to uslater on.
(03:22):
And so, first of all, I justwant to say thank you very much
for that gift.
Greg Collins (03:28):
Well, thank you, I appreciate that.
Sarah Caminiti (03:29):
And thank you also for replying to the emails
after I probably overwhelm yougreatly.
But the question.
Greg Collins (03:38):
Not overwhelming.
It's easy to engage withsomeone who is thoughtful and
curious and vulnerable.
If we could all do that in ourengagements, imagine what we
could accomplish together.
Sarah Caminiti (03:49):
Man, yes, that is so true.
It is because, if you letyourself be vulnerable, really
cool things happen.
You get to see that there'sother people that are around you
that are sharing similarjourneys and are experiencing
things and they all kind of wantto support each other, which we
see very often within thisethical growth space, which has
been really cool.
But, Greg, my question for youhere is in your I'll put a time
(04:17):
period on it to not make it toobroad, but like in the last like
couple of years, what sort ofimpact has reflection had on
where you found yourself in yourcareer, especially since you
went into a totally new spacethat ended up not really being a
crazy new space in the end?
Greg Collins (04:37):
Thank you for that question.
Um, I think reflection for methrough some both personal and
professional tragedy, as well assuccess, has helped me step out
of the confines of differenttitles or companies or
(05:00):
expectations and focus on theintersection of what brings me
joy and what talents I have.
Wow, yeah, there's there's,self-admittedly, an advantage of
having the experience I have.
That gives me, um, a little bitmore flexibility versus when
you're, you know, in your firstjob, where you've been there a
(05:20):
year or two and you'refrustrated and you want to move.
So self-awareness has really,really grown and from that I've
started to look at havingboundaries as a strength and not
as a limiting selfishness ormeanness towards others.
(05:41):
So I think having someboundaries and having some
better understanding of where Ican help others and what brings
me joy has probably propelled myhappiness but also my success
versus I look at some of thefailures and I was not chasing
generally the service of others.
I want that title at thatcompany because it will unlock
(06:04):
that uh uh thing and it it.
Just I knew it wouldn't worklike that and I pushed ahead
anyways.
Um, and it was.
It was a painful lesson tolearn, especially when you
already knew it, but you're like, I knew it anyway.
Um.
So I think reflection um hasgiven me the permission to
accept the things I did wrong,except, uh, the boundaries that
I want to create for my ownhealth, and then just really
(06:29):
kind of lean in and focus onwhat are the skills, what are
the joys versus, what are thetitles or what are the companies
or what are the functions.
Sarah Caminiti (06:36):
What a great takeaway from that.
It is so true I mean, we'veseen this with so many different
people that have gifted metheir time on this show where
once they've kind of allowedthemselves to pause and think,
okay, what was it about thisspace that didn't feel right?
Or what was it about this spacethat really did feel right, and
(06:57):
how can I lean into that more,how can I celebrate that more?
The opportunities that startedcoming in because they were
being genuine to themselves andthey were being true to
themselves and just kind ofgiving themselves the space to
try things that they may nothave allowed themselves to think
were possible before, justcontinues to pay itself off,
(07:20):
like over and over again andjust enforce the fact that you
have to.
You have to give yourself thatspace to to be who you want to
be in a way that's respectfuland thinking of others that you
get to achieve really cool butoften different than expected
(07:41):
successes.
Greg Collins (07:43):
Yeah, it's almost like when you get into college
or you're finishing up highschool and they're like what
college do you want to go to?
And I hope they still don't dothis nonsense.
The guidance counselor makesyou take a test and then tells
you which jobs you should have.
Sarah Caminiti (08:02):
Oh, yeah, oh, I'm sure that's still sticking
around and then tells you whichjobs you should have.
Greg Collins (08:05):
Oh yeah, oh, I'm sure that's still sticking
around.
That's a tragedy.
Getting out of that frameworkor trap of this is the title, or
this is the job, or this is theindustry.
And more into I was leaving onejob and a previous boss of mine
(08:25):
.
I was talking to her and shesaid Greg, I just think you need
to do the basic thing of getout a piece of paper and draw a
T On the left-hand side.
Write what you get at On theright-hand side, what brings you
joy, look for the intersectionand go hunt that.
Stop looking for titles, stopworrying about the career
progression.
(08:47):
I don't know about others, but Iknow my happiness goes up the
last time I spend on LinkedIn.
It's kind of like the Instagram.
Yes, everyone has an incrediblevacation home and their life is
perfect and every job isamazing.
There's a lot of pretense therethat I think misguides our
expectations, and so I thinklooking internally to then go
(09:08):
search externally is becomingharder and harder to do.
But maybe podcasts like thishelps people remember to look
inwards and focus on theirstrengths and their joys versus
the expectations of others.
Sarah Caminiti (09:21):
No, I couldn't agree more of others.
No, I couldn't agree more.
And I think that embracingcommunity outside of like a
virtual like you know best footforward version of yourself
community and LinkedIn, onsocial media and the various
forms but like actually acommunity where you can be
vulnerable, you can say, hey, isthis a normal thing or is this
(09:45):
just like a weird thing that'shappening?
Greg Collins (09:49):
Is this me?
Is this me?
Yeah, be prepared.
Sometimes the answer is yes,sometimes it is you.
Sarah Caminiti (09:55):
It is, it is, but you can have really cool
conversations and they're honestconversations and so many times
, especially in the SaaS space,the tech space, everything is
very similar.
It's a pretty standard formulafor how things operate, even if
they all have very differenttitles associated with it.
(10:18):
I mean, I always crack up atthe different ways that people
like to promote a customersupport role.
I've been a happiness expert inone job, thank you, thank you.
It was a really big deal for me.
But you're right.
I mean, the titles don't matter.
In the grand scheme of things,it is the work that you produce
(10:38):
and the impact that you can havewithin the space, and if you're
doing it in a way that is trueto your core values, then it's
just you get so much more out ofit.
Greg Collins (10:51):
I also think it's good to be honest about your
objective, like with yourself,because job hopping or title
hunting, if your objective is toget to another place, I'm fine
with that.
Let's go make sure that I getthe manager or the director or
the deep title, because I got todo this, this and this.
I think it's just being clearthat what is your plan and what
(11:12):
are you willing to sacrifice forthat?
Sarah Caminiti (11:15):
Giving a journey to you, like allowing yourself
a journey to figure it out.
I mean, ask 22-year-old me whatis the ultimate goal and I will
tell you a million times overit is not leading and building
support teams and tech companies, mostly because I had no idea
that that was a thing?
Greg Collins (11:32):
yeah, I, I didn't play that in the backyard as a
kid no, no, that was not.
Sarah Caminiti (11:36):
that was not a halloween costume that I put
myself in year after year.
Um, but we have no idea whatthe future holds and what the
little teams are that are goingto start popping up and emerging
.
And if you are always beingcognizant of your skills and
(11:56):
your passions and the thingsthat you don't like, that you
don't want to compromise on, andletting yourself set that
boundary, then you can spotthose things when they do pop up
in a much easier way and startto think, hey, maybe this is
something that could actuallywork for me.
I've never heard of this beforeand start asking questions
(12:18):
Something you said earlier, greg, about boundaries.
I would love to know from youhow you found the best way to
approach setting boundaries,because it can go south fast.
You can be perceived as a bitof a dick sometimes if you're
setting boundaries, and how haveyou found success setting those
(12:39):
in a way that is respectful butstill firm?
Greg Collins (12:43):
Yeah, so I think it's.
So.
First of all, I'm not going toprofess that I'm the expert to
write a book here, but I canshare what usually works for me
when I execute it well, and I'dsay it's two pieces.
It's one first, internally whatare my boundaries?
And there's two how do Icommunicate them?
So, internally, a phrase that Iwas given once upon a time is
(13:04):
fog, the acronym fog, fear,obligation and guilt.
Are you making decisions out ofplace of fog?
Am I saying yes at a fear?
Am I saying yes at anobligation?
Am I saying yes at a guilt?
Sarah Caminiti (13:22):
That's a good one, Holy Hi my name is Greg.
Greg Collins (13:25):
I've been around about 47 years and I am a
pleaser.
I am a pleaser, and pleasershave a tendency to attract
takers Both in theirprofessional life and in their
personal life.
And the personal life we'll setaside.
But on the professional life, Idon't think it's nefarious.
(13:47):
But if you're smart and youwork hard and you're a pleaser,
it's very easy to be takenadvantage of.
Yes, so for me, just to havefog as a framework is good.
Am I saying yes to my boss, tothis colleague, to this client,
out of fog?
If so, that's an immediate stepI can reevaluate.
Doesn't mean you don't do it,but now at least I'm aware.
(14:08):
Maybe I have to do this andthere's a very real consequence
and I should fear it.
But at least I'm conscious ofwhy I'm making, what is my
decision framework, what isdriving it forward.
So fog has been helpful for mein my journey and just setting
boundaries and makingclear-minded decisions.
Why am I doing it Fog?
The second thing is tocommunicate it.
(14:30):
I think a very well-knownparadigm or framework would be a
radical candor.
If you haven't read it outthere, it's a great book, it's
worth reading.
If you don't like to read,google and you'll find a video
and they'll tell you in fiveminutes reading If you don't
like to read.
You know Google and you'll finda video and notes.
I am five minutes, but I thinkthere is great strength in
service and caring enough tohave conflict.
(14:52):
Yeah, caring enough to haveconflict is how I would
summarize radical candor Versus.
I think so often, especially asa pleaser, it's tempting to live
in that ruinous empathy,whereas I just want you to be
happy, I want it right, but it'sjust a disservice.
So for me, going into a lens ofconflict, it's not about
(15:14):
winning, it's not the fixed pie,it's not right or wrong.
We talked about that incrediblebook, the 15 Commitments of
Conscious Leadership.
Which is above the line orbelow the line?
Below the line, I need to beright and I'm defensive.
Above the line, we talked abouta word you used a little bit
ago am I curious, right?
(15:34):
Am I having fun?
Am I curious?
Am I trying to find thesolution or am I trying to be
right?
So I think, when dealing withconflict, if I care enough and
my goal is to be of service, notto be right then the conflict
has a tendency to go away.
And if it didn't, I think thatsays more about the person I'm
(15:54):
speaking to than it does aboutme.
Sarah Caminiti (15:56):
Oh man, you just summed that up so perfectly.
Yes, and that is something thatwe all need to think about
often, where we don't have tohold that bottom line
responsibility for how someoneelse perceives us If we are
approaching situations and weare curious, we are open and
(16:17):
we're firm.
You know we.
We have to be true to our.
You know we have to think aboutourselves, we have to respect
ourselves enough to be firm, butwe're so respectful and and
provide context and if it'sstill not perceived well and the
other person is not open intohaving a conversation about why
it wasn't perceived well, that'snot on you.
Greg Collins (16:37):
No.
And then yeah, yeah.
So one of the things I learnedwe talked about the reflective
period and then where I am whatI learned is how important to
write a leadership culture wasfor me in joining a company Not
placing judgment on what is goodculture or bad culture, just
culture and my definition ofwhere I thrive, understanding my
(16:57):
personality and what kind ofleadership team I need to be
surrounded, what kind of safeenvironment I need, what safety
for me.
That was a big piece of it.
And David, our CEO and founderof Boldr.
And David, our CEO and founderof Boldr, is phenomenal in the
EQ and IQ.
Where I am in a place where Ican share.
(17:18):
Hey, these are my tendencies andI will sometimes overcommit out
of fog, but it happened lastweek where he's like, hey, I
need this, this and this and myplate was full and there's no
way.
And I'm like, yeah, yeah,absolutely, I can get that done.
And then I get the phone andthen, like an hour later, I need
this, this and this and myplate was full and there's no
way.
And I'm like, yeah, yeah,absolutely, I can get that done.
And then I get the phone andthen, like an hour later, I'm
stressed out about it and I likekind of take my breath and
(17:40):
think about fog and what can Ido, and I'm like, hey, this is
only conflict if you're scaredof the result versus you're
trying to.
Actually I jumped into solutionspace and it's just not healthy
for either one of us.
I dropped this on our one-on-onedoc for next Monday.
Can we tackle it then?
And for him to come back andsay, yeah, great, talk to you on
(18:04):
Monday.
Thanks so much, versus.
In the past I wouldn't have hadthose boundaries and I would
have assessed about it andworked on it, woke up at 2.15,
worked on it again.
So I share that in a way of tokind of mill those two things
around boundaries, but not alljust being reflective of how is
(18:24):
it for me I can practicallyapply those in my day to day.
But if I don't do that it'skind of selfish and
self-destructive because Ididn't help David achieve his
objectives.
I certainly wasn't a goodservant to my team to put them
in a position to win, and youcan see how that then ripples
out to our clients.
So I think just even thoselittle, kind of small decisions
(18:45):
of am I trying to be of serviceand what are my boundaries are
actually really healthy ways toserve others.
Sarah Caminiti (18:50):
Definitely it parallels well to something that
I've really kind of I thinkabout all the time, and that's
assumptions.
And what is an assumption?
And I mean, aside from what dowe know about assumptions?
It makes an ass out of you andme, me and you, whatever one it
is.
But really assumptions areshowing someone that you don't
(19:14):
care enough to find out ifyou're doing it right, if there
is urgency to it.
You don't care enough to giveyourself the grace to pause and
to take it off of your shoulders, and that could be fear, that
could be trauma.
There could be so many reasonsfor why you jumped to an
(19:35):
assumption, but I think ofassumptions like a Mad Lib, like
you were given a Mad Lib and anassumption.
You're just, you're putting inthose random words and you don't
really know what it's going tolook like in the end because you
don't have all the facts,because you were curious enough
to find out what those factswere, and so your boss, you know
(19:56):
not really feeling that needingto, needing you to feel that
urgency for that project,because you were curious enough
to ask is this something thatneeds to happen right now?
And by asking if you can talkabout it next week, like if you
didn't do that, you were fillingout that mad lib as if this was
on fire and it would have beena totally different project than
(20:18):
than if you would have donewhat you did and taken the time
to actually pause and and sitwith it.
Greg Collins (20:27):
Not only that, I discovered I'd already done it
and it was a different projectand just hadn't told anybody.
Sarah Caminiti (20:31):
Yet and if you made an assumption, then you
would have made somethingtotally new, yeah, but it hits
you in the butt and you end uphurting yourself more in the end
than because you're not just,like you were saying, with the
service.
You are not providing a serviceto someone if you're hoping for
(20:55):
the best and just doingsomething and making a best
guess about what it is thatactually needs to happen.
No, if you're wanting toprovide a service, you
understand something fully.
You ask thoughtful questions,you have conversations, you
gather the facts and sometimesyou have to do that in
iterations because the timelinedoesn't allow you to thoroughly
(21:15):
investigate all the differentways that that web can go.
But be cognizant of that.
Say, this is what I can do rightnow, but I know in a couple of
months I'm going to spend sometime to look and see what the
impact is for this and this andthis and this, and don't just
walk away from it, becausenobody wins when something isn't
(21:36):
done completely.
Too many companies, I feel nowespecially I mean I've just been
kind of introduced to it moreso especially lean into that MVP
a little bit too heavily and Ilearned recently that MVP was
not most valuable player andthat's a cruel, a cruel thing
(21:57):
that they have done with thosethree letters.
But no, it's, nobody wins.
People just get so stressed.
Greg Collins (22:05):
They do, they do OKRs, nbos, all of the different
things KPIs, KPIs.
Sarah Caminiti (22:10):
MBOs, all of the different things.
Greg Collins (22:11):
KPIs.
Sarah Caminiti (22:12):
So many KPIs, so many KPIs.
Greg Collins (22:16):
TLAs.
You know that one.
Oh, that's a bad joke, sarah.
Three-letter acronym TLA.
Kpis, mbos it's a funny way tomake.
It's a three-letter acronym aTLA, oh, three-letter.
You know what?
It's a bad joke.
It's a three-letter acronym a.
Sarah Caminiti (22:29):
TLA, oh, three-letter.
You know what it's a bad joke.
Greg Collins (22:33):
It's a bad joke, it's not mine.
Sarah Caminiti (22:35):
Thank you for saying it's a bad joke, instead
of just acknowledging the factthat my brain broke when you
said that and I had nowhere togo with that it is.
It is a TLA.
It's a three-letter acronym.
Yeah, there's too many of them.
Greg Collins (22:48):
The bad joke you will hear me say in a lot of
meetings internally is they'recalled KPIs, not KPEs.
They're indicators, notexplainers.
Sarah Caminiti (22:57):
Why are we measuring it?
Huh, I like that.
I like that to like if you'regoing into a space that does
need some improvements andpeople have not been able to
(23:18):
understand what is required ofthem in order to define, kind of
, what good is, then once youdefine what good is and you're
actually able to celebrate andmove forward and find other ways
to take it to the next level,then those KPIs kind of have to
get put on a shelf, as thishelped us.
Now we're where we need to be.
We were able to acknowledgethings, motivate people the way
(23:39):
that maybe they needed to bemotivated.
But now we're done.
Greg Collins (23:45):
I like to use just a handful of KPIs and I like to
look at them, not in terms ofam I hitting the benchmark, but
what is the trend, is it goingup or is it going down and I try
and find ones that are againindicators that tell me if I
need to start looking further.
For the explanation Again,they're KPIs, not KPEs is.
(24:09):
When I was at Zendesk, we wereworking really hard to try and
reduce the amount of effort ouradvocates were using to serve
our clients, and so we had Imean, you know how many metrics
you have in support.
The one we landed on as aleadership team is let's focus
on requests for wait time,because we thought that was a
(24:31):
singular metric that we couldwatch going up or down.
That actually told us multiplethings, and the two most
important things are what is theimpact to the client, how much
time are they waiting and whatis the effort that the advocate
is doing so for us in thatparticular ecosystem at that
time and our goals andobjectives.
Watching that one KPI ofwhether it was trending up or
(24:55):
trending down then gave usindicators of how the different
projects we were working on,whether it was a knowledge base,
whether it was our answer,response engines, all the
different strategies we had tiedinto a KPI that let us know if
it was going up or down, whichallowed us to have a
conversation at a high level ofwhether we were succeeding, not.
Is it 0.2 or 0.4?
No, and the 50 KPIs that areunderneath it, with all the
(25:20):
projects that are trying todrive the high level one.
Sarah Caminiti (25:22):
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Oh, I like that.
I think that that's reallyvaluable because, with KPIs, the
(26:07):
best thing that I've seen fromthem is they offer opportunities
for conversations when thoseconversations were sometimes
difficult to figure out how toarticulate beforehand.
And if you have a goal in mindand you're able to define the
goal with your team andeverybody understands the
reasons for the goal and you'retracking it and you're
(26:28):
monitoring it, you can start tohave better conversations to be
like hey, actually this wentdown because of this blocker
that came up.
Oh, let's look into thisblocker and see what's going on
there, and it may have been alittle bit trickier to get to
that point without that.
Greg Collins (26:48):
I think the power of KPIs is to facilitate
conversation and discovery, notto determine success.
Yep.
Sarah Caminiti (26:54):
Agree 100%.
Greg Collins (26:55):
But they're often used as determining success.
Yes, and if you achieve it well, then we need to make it higher
, and if you don't, then you'repunished.
Yes, and it's just a misuse ofthe concept.
Sarah Caminiti (27:09):
Yep, no definitely.
Greg Collins (27:10):
Are we, as a company and as a strategy
department of division,improving or not?
Sarah Caminiti (27:15):
Yep, yeah, yeah.
That is something that peopledon't talk about often is what
happens when that KPI is reached.
What's the next step?
Like do you celebrate?
Do you sit in it?
Do you just see what happenswhen everybody is at a good
foundational level?
No, sit in it.
Do you just see what happenswhen everybody is at a good
foundational level?
No, you say, well, now you're afailure again because I've just
(27:39):
upped the ante and you're allin the red because nobody's
hitting it.
Greg Collins (27:41):
So what are you going to do?
So I did something a littlecrazy, but I didn't anyways.
When I joined Boldr, I joinedhalfway through Q1.
So all the MBOs from mydivision are already set right.
You're inheriting them.
So now I'm I don't know 30, 45days in and we got to set the
MBOs for the next quarter andI'm like I just found the
bathroom.
Sarah Caminiti (28:02):
Wait, you can't define those already.
Come on, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so on one metric I said Iput a BHAG, I put a B hack, I
(28:26):
put a big crazy number up therethat I did not think I could hit
at all, but I put it up thereand in the notes, behind the
definition of the MBO I put,success would be determined if I
can tell you why I hit it orwhy I missed it, not if I hit it
or miss it.
Wow, what a great introductionto who you are as a leader by
having that be how you'resetting the tone.
Greg Collins (28:35):
And then every other week, when I went into the
leadership meeting and had toupdate, I had about five
different strategies that weresupporting that one MBO, which
had a very black and white KPI,and I talked about why it was
going up or why it was goingdown, instead of I hit it or I'm
on track.
Sarah Caminiti (28:54):
You were learning about the company
through this metric, like deepdive, because you were
knowledgeable, you were able totalk about it, you were able to
be confident in when you wereexplaining it and sharing why
things maybe weren't going well,or an experiment that you
wanted to try and see theresults for it's.
But I just I love that you camein for a leadership role in a
(29:21):
company that wasn't your typicalspace and, instead of saying
you know, asserting yourdominance, or instead of being
quiet, you said you know whatI'm going to.
I'm going to just set a tonehere.
I'm Greg.
I like to have conversations, Ilike to experiment, I like to
(29:42):
see what's possible and I liketo understand things fully.
And in order to do that, I'mgoing to set this lofty goal,
and I know it's probably notgoing to happen, and that's
totally okay, because we'regoing to get to talk about goal.
And I know it's probably notgoing to happen, and that's
totally okay, because we'regoing to get to talk about why
it's not happening or why it ishappening, and that's going to
be a really cool place for us tobe.
Greg Collins (30:01):
I don't know if I said it quite like that, but if
I ever need an agent, I'm goingto give you a call.
Can I bring you to my nextleadership meeting now to
introduce my objectives, sarah?
Um, back to the culture piece,though.
Um, it, it, it.
I I needed to find a companythat had a leadership team that
attacked problems, not people,and I found that here at Boldr
(30:24):
it is.
It is a leadership team thatleans into challenges
collectively, instead ofassigning blame and taking
credit, which is a hard thing tofind at a, at a leadership team
.
Um, but yeah, there's a,there's a team that has that
curiosity, that so there's anenvironment that allows me to do
that.
I just say that because, um,not every job I've had I could
(30:45):
walk in.
It's not a reflection of me and, wow, look look at that leader
and that new tactic he's goingto write a book.
No, no, I had an environmentthat was welcoming to that kind
of thought and approach.
So, yeah, read the room is, Iguess, the second piece of
advice before you do somethinglike that.
Sarah Caminiti (31:05):
Read the room?
Yes, for sure, and but you didsay something that I think is so
true.
And in this bizarre job marketthat so many people are finding
themselves in, being able toread a room and understand what
that leadership team is like andhow that impacts a company can
be so overwhelming and sometimesdeceiving, and I'm glad that
(31:29):
you found a place that actuallytheir actions spoke louder than
their words and uh, and they,they allow everybody to shine in
a way that's just supportive,because that's really important.
Greg Collins (31:40):
That's a special thing.
Do you do you have, uh, anykind of um go-to approaches or
questions to try and suss outthe culture of a company or a
room, Just like I'm?
I'm getting so many phone callsfrom people who are looking for
a new opportunity, and so it'sa common question I'm fielding
as far as what should I look for, and my bias is to say you
(32:03):
should start with culture first.
So you have to know what kindof culture you want.
But do you have any tips ortricks or successes or failures
in terms of going and findingculture questions?
Sarah Caminiti (32:13):
Yeah, that's such a great thing because a lot
of companies and I am going tosound negative when I say this,
but I think maybe I need tosound negative when I say this A
lot of companies know how tosay the right thing and they
know how to present the culturequestions in a very positive way
.
And the realities are often verydifferent and what I have
(32:35):
learned with my most recent jobexperience hunting experience is
I went in bold, I went inconfident and I went in like not
thinking.
I am so grateful that you tookthis time to meet with me.
I approached it as I am aleader who is skilled and I'm
(32:59):
glad to be here to talk to you,but I'm not going to hold back
and to be able to read a room.
When you approach somethingconfidently tells you more about
the people that you're going tobe surrounding yourselves with
than any question that you canask, because you just showed
them who you are and are theyopen to that, or or are they
(33:23):
going to to try to take littlebits of that away because you
don't want that?
Greg Collins (33:30):
yeah.
Sarah Caminiti (33:31):
Yeah.
Greg Collins (33:32):
I like that.
Sarah Caminiti (33:34):
And I will say this too One of the coolest
things of it is I let myself beknown from the very beginning
and that allowed me to ask thosedifficult questions or those
taboo-ish questions Like I'm notlooking to have another child,
but I did ask about what theparental leave policies are,
because I think that that says alot about how companies treat
their employees.
Looking to have another child,but I did ask about what the
(33:54):
parental leave policies areBecause I think that that says a
lot about how companies treattheir employees.
I asked about the hybridenvironment and how flexible
things are.
I said I'm a mom.
What's it going to be like whenI have to go and pick up my kid
because he's sick?
Can I talk to another momthat's been with the company for
a while and understand what herexperience has been like here?
And they just they answered allof these things so thoughtfully
(34:16):
.
And the people on the other endas soon as I got off the call,
they would email me or theywould call me the person that
was my talent acquisition person.
She sent me a pep talk emailright before I did a
presentation and said she wasthinking about me and those
little things matter.
(34:37):
They are.
They are.
They're showing you who theyreally are in those times where
it could be difficult or itcould be unnecessary.
And uh, and I went to work fora company that is totally not
where I saw myself working.
I'm not in SaaS anymore Me too.
It's a ride.
(34:57):
It is such a ride, but if you'rein a place where you feel like
you're around good people, itdoesn't matter what it is Like.
Good people are good people andthey make you want to be better
.
Greg Collins (35:11):
Agreed.
Thanks for sharing that.
Sarah Caminiti (35:19):
Yeah, no problem , I hope that.
I hope that the people that, uh, that reach out to you and that
says so much about who you are,that people are reaching out to
you right, because it's youknow, it's it's a crazy world
out there, but you have to bevulnerable to reach out to
people and, uh, people arereaching out to you because
you've shown them that that's anokay thing in your space.
Greg Collins (35:36):
Can I do something that wasn't planned?
Do it.
Let's talk about getting fired,because that is multiple calls
a month from people who gotdownsized.
They got let go.
They're just miserable.
They took the job because theyhad to have one, not because
it's what they wanted, and thefirst 30 minutes is the same
(36:01):
conversation which is gettingthem past the shame of being let
go.
Yep.
So I'll just say on recordeveryone you've met has been
fired.
They just haven't told you I'vebeen fired.
It's okay, you're going to befired.
I was talking to someone in hismid fifties who was just given a
three month exit.
So it's a lovely firing right.
(36:22):
And he's like I've never beenfired.
I'm like sure you have.
He's like no, I've never beenfired.
I'm like, of course you have.
He's like no, I'm like he.
He was surprised again, like wetease that sometimes linkedin
can be used like instagram, thateveryone has a beautiful house
and cars and vacation homes anda yacht.
Um, no one wants to put thatout there, but there are so many
(36:42):
reasons that a company will letyou go, whether it's a
different boss, a differentstrategy, maybe their P&L and
EBITDA has changed.
There's all these differentthings that I just want to
remove this stigma of being letgo.
You're working for decades,things happen, it's okay.
So I have that conversationwith people a lot.
I'm like no, I've been firedtoo, it's okay.
(37:04):
It doesn't mean you didsomething wrong, it doesn't mean
you're incompetent.
It's called life, it's okay.
Take a deep breath, rub somedirt on it.
Next let's go.
Sarah Caminiti (37:13):
And the cool thing because I've been having a
lot of conversations withpeople as well that have been
impacted in various ways, fromcompanies that are ending their
contract for whatever reason,and and what I've I've I've
started to really remind folksis the people that I've met that
were also impacted in the goingon to do things that they never
(37:35):
thought that was it waspossible, like it has been with
my last episode.
The Elise was when we firstrecorded in May.
She had recently been let go.
She had been with the companyfor eight years.
She was an excellent employee.
There was nothing wrong with her, nothing wrong whatsoever.
She did nothing wrong.
But she was let go and so hermindset, her space, was just
(37:58):
nervous but also curious, andshe committed to going out of
her comfort zone and doingcoffee chats and meeting new
people and talking to people andgiving yourself that time that
you don't have when you're inthe grind.
And we had to redo her erabefore her episode was released,
because the day that herseverance ran out was her first
(38:21):
day at this job.
that totally changed the jobdescription and the requirements
to meet her and fit her, andthey're just so excited to have
her on board leading this hugeteam and doing all these
incredible things.
None of that would havehappened, though, if she would
have stayed where she was, andnone of it would have happened
(38:43):
if she didn't start askingquestions about what it is that
she loves to do and what'smeaningful to her, and I think
that that's a message that,while it seems cliche and it
seems like I'm just trying tocheer you up, it's the reality.
It really is.
Things happen.
It's an opportunity to evaluateand reflect and be cognizant of
(39:08):
what it is that you want toprovide this world, and then
also how your actions impactothers and what are the
boundaries, and once you kind ofdefine those, you start to look
at job descriptions differently.
Greg Collins (39:24):
You do to that a threat, I would add, is when I
was younger and, uh, building mycareer and getting out there,
everyone said, greg, you got anetwork, you got a network.
You always get your next job bynetworking, network, network,
network, your, your, your jobsecurity and your career is only
as good as your network.
And I didn't hear them.
And, uh, I but I wish I used tokind of lament and beat myself
(39:49):
up that I didn't network harder.
And then we all get busy withour jobs and you just don't
network.
But, um, akin to why I wasexcited that you asked me if I'd
be willing to to meet andparticipate today is if, if you
know the old question, whatwould you tell yourself?
If you were, I would have said,um, don't always be, network,
constantly be looking for waysto be of help, yes, networking
(40:13):
for networking sake.
I don't know.
You say networking.
Or someone says, oh, you'regoing to network.
I'm like, oh, that's exhausting, I don't want to do that, it's
insincere, it's exhausting.
But my great opportunities havecome from just being kind and
giving.
And it comes and finds you.
So I guess I would have toldmyself when I was younger,
(40:33):
instead of always beingnetworking, just always being
helpful.
Just look for ways to behelpful.
Sarah Caminiti (40:39):
Yep, yep, quietly, loudly.
However it is that makes sensefor the situation.
Be open to saying yes to peoplethat are coming to you, because
if anybody is coming to youasking a question or if anyone's
just asking a question to theuniverse, they are taking a risk
.
And how would you feel if youwere on the other end of that
(41:03):
and making the leap to startposting on social media about
stuff that's not rosy and shinyand yacht driven is scary.
But to do it and then see, holycow, this really meant a lot to
me.
Holy cow, can we talk aboutthis?
Can we get on a call to talkabout this?
You start to see, oh, that riskactually helps somebody with
(41:25):
their journey and their day.
And now I'm excited to continueto help other people see that
they should be proud ofthemselves or they should do all
of these little things, andit's just, it's a really cool
ripple effect.
Greg Collins (41:40):
Ripple effect.
I like that analogy.
Sarah Caminiti (41:42):
Yeah, yeah, I do too.
Greg Collins (41:44):
What's my ripple today?
Sarah Caminiti (41:46):
Your ripple is that you are helping a lot of
people.
That is a pretty cool ripple.
Greg Collins (41:52):
Oh, I meant that for all of us.
What an interesting way to endmy day.
We started this conversationwith being reflective, and what
has it done for me.
What an interesting frameworkit would be, at the end of each
of my day, to say what was myripple.
Sarah Caminiti (42:06):
That's a good one to do with my kids too.
What?
Greg Collins (42:08):
was my ripple.
Sarah Caminiti (42:11):
Yeah, man, I really like that, I like that a
lot.
Greg Collins (42:16):
That is uh we should do a podcast.
Sarah Caminiti (42:19):
Yeah, what, what ?
Where did that come from?
That was left field.
Uh, no, that is.
Uh.
This could be the the name ofthis podcast episode, though,
because, yeah, because, dang,greg, like being able to give
yourself the space to reflect onyour day, and not in a way of
(42:41):
how it served you, in a way ofhow it served others is a pretty
awesome way to end your day,and then, what kind of mindset
will you be in when you startyour day?
Greg Collins (42:52):
I'm really excited about this, sarah.
I notice when I'm in ruts orfrustrated, it's because I
started my day from a positionof anxiety, of things I need to
get done, or I'm worried aboutit.
But when I start my day and Iget my cup of coffee and I let
my dog out and I say what am Igrateful for today?
When I start my day in apractice of gratitude I'm sorry,
(43:13):
gratitude there's a directcorrelation to how my day goes.
So I wonder if I bookend it, ifI start my morning with a
practice of gratitude, even ifit is something significant or
something very significant, andI end it with what was my ripple
?
Who did I impact?
What would that set me up forthe next day?
Sarah Caminiti (43:31):
Gosh, the world could be a pretty cool place if
that ripple started to rippleand it caught on, because,
getting people to start thinkingabout how did they impact
others as they conclude theirday, that could open up a lot of
really cool conversations.
Yeah, thank you for that.
Looking you, thank you droppingit like it's hot, so, uh, I
(43:55):
think I also said that to you inan email and then yes, you did
I did.
And then I said I am so sorrythat I said that.
And what am I doing?
Greg Collins (44:02):
just saying that here, sarah, you be you.
There's enough others in thisworld.
Sarah Caminiti (44:07):
It's true, it's true, you are uh, you're getting
the full, the full pictureright now.
Um so, Greg, after that littleparty, I got to ask you like I
ask all the guests that gift mewith their time here on the show
what era do you find yourselfin, or what era are you entering
right now?
Greg Collins (44:24):
I would say exploration.
Sarah Caminiti (44:27):
That's a good era.
That's a good era.
That's a curious era.
I mean you can't really gowrong with that.
Greg Collins (44:36):
I am.
There's that idea that the moreyou learn about something, the
more you realize how little youknow.
The more you learn aboutsomething, the more you realize
how little you know I'm.
I'm realizing just how little Iknow about myself and how
(44:57):
little I know about what I coulddo to be a positive impact to
others, and so I would say I'min an era of exploration.
How is it I can betterunderstand my gifts and talents
and how they impact others?
So I can double down on thatand be intentional.
Sarah Caminiti (45:12):
I think we're going to have to have a
follow-up in a handful of monthsand kind of circle back to this
and see what you've uncovered,because I think we could learn a
lot from that.
Greg Collins (45:21):
Let's do.
It Sounds like fun.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you and Iappreciate what you.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you and Iappreciate what you're doing on
this podcast.
Uh, it's um.
The more people that shinelights, the the brighter the
world, so thanks for that.
Sarah Caminiti (45:33):
Thank you, greg, and thank you for your time and
for your openness and for yourconversation.
I um, I think the world is abetter place because you're in
it and uh, and I'm grateful foryou.
Thank you, have a wonderful day.
Thank you, you too.
See you later.
What a powerful conversation tohave as we wrap up this season
of Epochal Growth.
Greg's reflection on leadership, boundaries and service reminds
(45:56):
us that success isn't justabout hitting numbers.
It's about understanding thewhy behind everything that we do
.
As we head towards the finalepisodes of this season, I
encourage you to take Greg'swisdom to heart Reflect, set
boundaries and stay curiousabout how you can make an impact
in your work and life.
(46:16):
Thank you so much for tuning inand remember your era of growth
is always evolving.
Until next time, keep showingup, keep leading and keep
growing.
I'm Sarah Caminiti.
Have a great day.
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