November 27, 2023 • 78 mins
What happens when the world of AI is shaken up and its leaders are forced to make unexpected exits? We're journeying down the rabbit hole of the recent Open AI shake-up, where the plot features a board of directors and a founder forced out. But the story doesn't end there. The ousted CEO has hitched a ride to Microsoft, and we're left pondering the implications for Open AI and the future of artificial intelligence.
Then, Imagine being able to not just read minds but translate brainwaves into text and images. That's the brave new world that Meta and the University of Texas are pioneering. While the potential for mental health support is staggering, we're also tackling the elephant in the room - the ethical and privacy concerns such AI breakthroughs bring. On the other hand, Apple's RCS revolution and the blue bubble vs green bubble debate is changing the way we communicate. But is this a direction Apple is truly committed to?
Finally, we're exploring the future as it unfolds - rewatching your dreams through advanced headsets, the possibility of diagnosing brain disorders and mental illnesses through revolutionary technology, and understanding the brain in ways we've never done before. From Microsoft’s takeover of OpenAI to the integration of messaging apps and technology, this episode promises to take you on a riveting ride through AI's recent upheavals and breakthroughs, and what they mean for our future. Buckle up and enjoy the journey!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John (00:00):
Man, we do have quite an interesting topic this week.
We sure do yeah, and it is well.
And there are a few of them, afew big headlines for us to
touch on you know, so this willbe a good one.
And the first of them, actually,why don't I just label them
real quick, off the top right,do it up.
(00:21):
I just want to say I'm thankfulthat we have so much good stuff
to talk about.
Number one we're talking aboutthe open AI.
Shakeup is how we're titlingthis?
Because the guy who foundedopen AI and led to where we're
(00:46):
at with chat, gpt and thingslike that, he ended up getting
forced out by their new board ofdirectors.
Now, for those who don't fullyknow how this stuff works, I
think most of you probably do,but you know, board of directors
are often people who are fromother organizations, you know,
(01:08):
and that's what this is.
That's what's led to himgetting voted out.
So, if I'm not mistaken right,he is going to work at Microsoft
.
Is that correct?
Denison (01:22):
Yes, yeah, one of the board members does work at
Microsoft.
John (01:29):
Yes, yes, that is true too , isn't it?
Which is very bizarre aboutthis story as well, but I don't
think it's officially officialyet, but I do think that
Microsoft is the main option forwhere he would go.
What's been even moreinteresting about that is last I
(01:49):
saw, which was just two daysago, over 500 of the 700 staff
at open AI have said they'regoing to leave, and all said
that they would go to Microsoft.
This will actually bring up apart of this story that I kind
(02:10):
of have a weird thought about,you know, because it seems very
oddly manipulative, but we'lldive into that for sure.
Number two the second topicwe're going to talk about is
Meta's mind reading, ai, andthen working with the University
of Texas right On thistechnology to help.
(02:34):
I mean, really, what the goalof a lot of this is right now is
to help people who have somesort of mental issue, if you
will.
Right yeah, whether it wassomething genetic or something
that they in incurred throughsome part of their life, right
(02:56):
yeah, and it's interesting howthe services involve basically
chat GPT, but chat GPT one, yeahexactly earlier version of chat
GPT Right.
Stuff that us consumers havenever used, because the first
version of chat GPT that cameout was three right.
Denison (03:20):
Yeah, exactly.
Well, 3.5 is what is what chatGPT was using utilizing.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
John (03:27):
Yes, yes, so you know what that means.
It's three, but they added someinteraction stuff to make it
more usable for the averageperson, right, correct?
Oh yeah, and so that will be aninteresting one for us to dive
into.
Also, apple's RCS revolution,man, mm, hmm, that's that's.
(03:49):
The goal of this is for it tointeract with Android phones
more easily, right?
Denison (03:53):
Exactly, exactly.
Some people are calling it theblue, the green bubble killer.
The green bubble killer, yousay yeah, exactly.
John (04:04):
So that's.
The main thing is to make itall blue, blue messages, right?
Denison (04:08):
I mean it's sure and the easiest way.
Yeah, we could say somethinglike that.
It's a little bit morecomplicated and we will go into
that.
Yeah, okay, Well, what?
John (04:20):
does that mean?
What does that look like?
We have a lot to talk about, mmhmm, and we're going to slam
into it, man, so let's go aheadand start rolling.
What's going on?
Everybody?
I'm John and I'm Denison, andthis is the catch up.
(04:50):
I just want to tease real quick,too, that we are on the cusp of
having a new theme, finally, mmhmm.
Sure, yes, and it's veryexciting.
It's something that I have beenworking on, not of my own
creation, but with the guy thatwe've worked with for this Very
good.
He's been kind of in my for alittle while, but he's had other
(05:13):
things going on, which istotally fine.
So we'll have an extendedversion, we'll have a tight
version, and it's going to bereally sick.
So we can't wait for you guysto check that out, but we want
you otherwise to check out thethree best ways to support this
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(05:34):
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Mm hmm.
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(05:56):
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(06:16):
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(06:37):
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(06:59):
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And number three there it is.
If you want to support, oh,there's a three, thank God.
Well, I will say, if that wasan Apple iPhone, then probably
interact a lot better with thenew RCS revolution.
I digress.
Denison (07:21):
Maybe, maybe, maybe.
There you go.
John (07:26):
Just over here flexing man , I'm holding right there.
Well, number three, if you wantto support us monetarily, we
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Genuinely, I might never Whoawhich is?
(07:50):
There we go.
That's the one I expected.
Yeah, yeah, so I got weird fora second.
But no, honestly, with allsincerity, there are a lot of
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(08:12):
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So all of that are three bestways to support this show.
And with that said, let's diveinto this topic.
Man Topics yeah, man, old mejust gets so hyped for the new
us dude.
Denison (08:27):
Yeah, I know man, I know he's feeling it.
John (08:30):
Yes, and it's playing with a soundboard, in case you were
wondering what that is.
But yeah, so, with that said,let's talk about the open AI
shake up first.
Oh my Lord, oh my Lord.
Denison (08:48):
You're trying to get everybody hyped about these,
about these, these topics.
Man, they're pretty dope.
John (08:55):
I hope they're half as high as we're getting.
Man, I know I mean even half ofit.
So so with that, with that saidum, yeah, these open AI changes
are interesting because thisboard of directors voted the bro
out right, which what's hisname?
Denison (09:13):
My name is Sam Altman.
Yes, sam Altman, okay.
John (09:19):
So he gets voted out, but he started chat or, I'm sorry,
started open AI.
Denison (09:25):
Yeah, he was a.
He was a co-founder of the openAI.
John (09:29):
Yeah, and so you know, obviously it's grown a lot since
then, especially just in thelast calendar year, with the
explosion of chat, gpt being thething.
And then you know, going fromthere, uh got a comment going by
the way what's up, darren?
How are things going?
Uh, going well, man, it's goodto hear from you.
(09:49):
Um, yeah, Thank you for jumpingin the comments.
Sorry, we're just getting backto you too, um, but yeah, so,
with that said as well, um, thetech you know has exploded and
all that kind of stuff.
And, as we've talked about forseveral weeks, microsoft well,
(10:09):
we've talked about this just afoundation part for a long time,
which is that Microsoft, uh,owns a large part of open AI
right.
Denison (10:22):
Mm, hmm, yeah, yeah, I mean, um, they don't technically
own them, but they haveinvested, um, they are investing
, I guess I should say I thinkit's like $4 billion uh, into
open AI.
I think it's over.
I suppose the investment issupposed to be over a few years
(10:43):
or whatever like that, but yes,uh, so in some ways they do have
an ownership stake in there.
Uh, just because of the sizableinvestment that they put in
there.
Um, a lot of it is just, youknow, for uh, a lot of the
investment is there for uh,technology sharing and stuff
like that.
Um, as we've already seen witha lot of um open AI's and um
(11:10):
Microsoft's co-pilot and howthose both kind of um mirror
each other open.
John (11:18):
AI's chat, GBT and, and uh , Microsoft's co-pilot, so yeah,
yeah, yeah, and a lot ofsoftware and technology shared
between them, like you weresaying and you know.
And so for for this to be aninteresting situation where, for
some reason, the board ofdirectors decides to make him no
longer be able to lead chat,gpt, then next, or, I'm sorry,
(11:43):
open AI, uh, but then you know,you hear, oh well, now he's
going to be over at Microsoft,which would be working on
co-pilot and those type ofthings.
If I remember right, that stillhasn't been fully settled yet,
that's not affirmed yet.
Denison (11:59):
Uh so technically, at least according to an article
from the Washington Post.
Essentially, the way that itwent down is, you know, of
course, we had it on uh onFriday where they uh, they fired
uh, sam um with their concernsof saying that he was not being
(12:21):
fully candid, candid to theboard about everything that was
going on, um, right, and then,um, on Sunday, they had talks on
trying to get him to returnback, to excuse me, uh, back to
open AI, um, but apparentlythose fell through.
(12:42):
I think, uh, one of the thingsthat Sam put in there as saying
like you know, I'll come back ifyou, you know, of course,
restate, restate um, add him orcast on, reinstate him as the
CEO and um they wanted.
He also wanted all of the boardmembers to um, essentially
(13:05):
leave um all of the boardmembers to resign.
Um, and then he'll come back andhe'll be good.
Um.
Some of the board members wereokay with that, some weren't,
some of them weren't, and so,essentially, the deal collapsed.
Um, and then, uh.
According to this, it says uh.
(13:25):
A few hours later, microsofthired um Sam to lead their AI
research division of Microsoft.
John (13:35):
Yeah, yeah which is interesting because also open AI
is named three CEOs in threedays, correct, since he's left.
That's how much people don'twant to be with that, and that's
what we found, too is over 500people within open AI of the 700
(13:56):
total staff signed a letterthat they would leave and they
would also go to Microsoft,right?
Denison (14:02):
Correct, Correct, To be a part of the new division that
Microsoft has, um uh created,uh, that Sam is going to be in
charge of.
John (14:15):
Yeah, and it has.
He has been hired by them, um,and officially started, like we
were saying.
But what do you think?
You know what?
What does this mean?
Why, why?
What was the push for this Umas far as him being over at
Microsoft?
Now, you know why.
(14:37):
Why was that push for so hard?
Why is that a thing that'shappened?
Cause it seems I say it becauseof this, especially when it's
AI and when it's consumer AI, um, you know, you want it to be
effective, but, of course, youwant it to be safe.
Yep, this does seem how weird,alt, that he got fired but now
(15:09):
he's over it.
Microsoft and 500 staff want tojoin him there.
It almost seems like it's justa normal plan, but they went
through a dark way to make ithappen.
Denison (15:20):
Yeah.
John (15:22):
I mean, yeah, I mean.
I can or go ahead.
Denison (15:25):
No, I just want to know what you think.
No, I mean, I, I can see that.
I can see that, and I wouldn'tbe too surprised if, you know,
some documentary comes out yearslater saying that there was,
there was internal documents ofsomething similar to like this
happening within Microsoft andstuff.
I mean, it would be a greatplay for them.
But, um, I think, uh, the waythat it really played out is the
(15:50):
board um didn't like him, uh,didn't like you know, I don't, I
don't think it might have been.
It may not have been exactly areflection of his leadership
style or like what it wasactually going, because,
honestly, um, Sam did lead thecompany to excuse me, uh, become
(16:12):
as big as um, essentiallybecome as big as it is.
Um, I'm sorry, but yeah, no, itdid receive that Gosh darn.
(16:36):
So sorry, I'm trying to fixsomething going on with it's our
YouTube side, but essentially,sam did you know he did a lot,
he did a lot to get open AI towhere it is right now, and so
(16:58):
it's one of those things that'sa little surprising.
But anyway, I think they oustedthem because they had something
that they didn't like.
They didn't understand the typeof backlash that they were
going to get.
And so when they tried tobackpedal, it kind of blew up in
(17:20):
their face.
And then Microsoft, who alreadyhad a pretty big relationship
with Sam, sam Altman, as well asOpen AI in general, the team at
Open AI yeah, microsoft waseasily able to kind of swoop in,
kind of as this parent,parental figure in some ways,
and just scoop up all thesepeople, right, scoop up Sam,
(17:43):
scoop up a lot of employees, ifthey all actually do decide to
resign and move over toMicrosoft.
So this is a great play for themto kind of make light of a bad
situation that Open AI gotthemselves into.
Yeah, I mean, you know, sure,if I were to go into the more
(18:06):
speculative side, this is anamazing way to get a open AI.
Essentially, get open AIwithout having to spend any real
money, right, sure, you're nothaving to do a full corporate
takeover.
You could just let itselfdestruct, right, let itself
(18:27):
destruct and scoop up all of thepeople that you really want on
that in that company.
And then now you essentiallyhave all of the proprietary, all
of the knowledge, all of theresearch and development, all of
(18:49):
that now in-house for afraction of the price.
John (18:56):
Yeah, which is really where my concern from this comes
from.
As far as what's interesting ofthis on the outside looking in,
because if all those peoplewere to leave from Open AI and
join Microsoft, or even if halfof them did right, you can
(19:19):
pretty much say goodbye Open AI.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, especially with all thoseleaders stepping down or
getting fired or not blasting aCEO after being named as such,
and with the development andintegration of chat GPT software
(19:41):
being so large already withMicrosoft, they're kind of
putting themselves in a positionwhere they could manage and be
the leaders of this kind ofstuff.
And you know, what'sinteresting about this, too, is
we talked about this a couple ofweeks ago, where chat GPT was
(20:08):
blamed for a wild AI crash thatMicrosoft had while they were
developing new AI service.
And then we find out the nextday or, I'm sorry, the next week
, when we had our last episodeof what the Microsoft AI
services they would offer.
(20:29):
Right, and this was built instep with Open AI technology
software.
Yeah, exactly.
Denison (20:37):
Exactly.
John (20:39):
Yeah, Darren, in the comments here he says sorry, I
don't know much about AI, butwhich platform is in lead as far
as AI programs?
It's definitely chat GPT.
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
Denison (20:54):
With the close second being the Bing AI, which has now
been rebranded as co-pilot, andthen, after that, it would be
Google's AI which is barred.
Yeah.
John (21:08):
But also to your point, bing AI is chat, gpt, yep, but
it's suited for the internet,yep, and it was the quickest
thing ever to 100,000 users,right?
Yes, gpt was.
Denison (21:26):
Yeah, it was.
It was other than threads.
Threads technically beat it.
Yeah, that was weird?
John (21:35):
Yeah, but that was a little bit.
No, what are you going to say?
Denison (21:40):
Sorry, no, I was just going to say that was a little
different, because threads wasreally and truly just bringing
over existing users from anotherplatform.
John (21:50):
So yes, and I meant to say 100 million, right, not 100,000
.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah For both.
But you know with you're right,because threads may looking at
now no one even uses that appanymore.
Denison (22:09):
Yeah, exactly.
John (22:11):
But according to the latest available data of this
month, chat GPT currently has180 million users.
So that's kind of crazy.
Yeah, it's pretty substantial.
You know what I mean?
Mm-hmm, but yeah, so that's abig one and I don't really know.
(22:32):
Of course, like I mentioned offthe top here, we want to keep
running through these processesaround these topics as well, but
still that's going to be aninteresting one to watch and
stay on top of.
But I do think that in myopinion and I hate to say this
(22:53):
stuff because I do likeMicrosoft, I like the company, I
like what they've done for workand computing ever since I was
a kid, you know, yeah, but Icannot lie and say that this
doesn't come off as a seems likeit's a subtle plan to take over
(23:16):
the whole technology forthemselves.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Denison (23:20):
Yeah, I mean I can, I can see that.
I can see that it's a great wayfor Microsoft essentially
becoming to become the leader inAI research and development and
in some ways depending on howthings go, you know setting
(23:42):
themselves up to get a monopolyin that space.
John (23:46):
Yeah.
Denison (23:46):
Because that is one thing to think about too.
Like, just let's just say, I'msure you know we're pretty, I'm
sure we're far off from thishappening, but because there is
this, still this weirdrelationship that open AI and
Microsoft still have, eventhough this whole blow up
(24:10):
happened, I wouldn't be toosurprised of, you know, they're
becoming some weird issues whenit comes to like APIs that are
out there that people can usefor open AI, like if they start
(24:31):
having like financial issues andthey have to shut down how that
would work right and howMicrosoft would try to integrate
that into their stuff.
So, and then you know there maybe a Microsoft loves creating
licenses and subscriptions andall sorts of other things, and
so I could see something similaror like a model like that.
(24:51):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, I meanthere's a, there's a lot of it.
I mean, think about it right, ifyou, if you can migrate all of
the users that are already usingchat GPT fully over to co-pilot
not saying that co-pilot is bad, I think the problem is that
(25:17):
co-pilot is still being shadowedor is still in the shadow of
chat GPT, even though they'reusing the exact same thing.
That was the whole purpose ofMicrosoft really saying like, oh
, you know, being AI at the time, like I said, now it's branded
as co-pilot being AI at the timesaying, oh, you know, it's
(25:41):
using chat GPT for, like youknow, that's a big deal.
Where on, if you're using, ifyou're using chat GPT, you're
just using you know 3.5 untilthey allowed you to pay for a
chapter to be T4.
So I think a lot of that wastrying to pull from the market
(26:01):
share that open AI had alreadybuilt up.
So I really could see this kindof becoming a move where
Microsoft, you know, swoops in,grabs all their people and then
can better market to people andsay, hey, if you really want the
(26:21):
best AI, come to over to us,start migrating some of those
users that are already in openAI and, you know, now you've got
a huge new amount of revenuethat's just coming in.
John (26:39):
Right, Well, and that you know.
I think with co-pilot Microsoftco-pilot you know their goal of
how they're trying to serve.
With AI, the services aredifferent, right, Because the
thing about chat GPT is that itcan answer and do so many things
(27:02):
, right, and just the fact that,if I remember right, it's
taught itself with 12,000different scientific research
papers, right, Yep, and that'samazing.
That makes it very versatileand very informative.
(27:24):
And this is a thing I will sayin favor of tech like chat GPT
is the fact that it's notsomething that I would hop on
and be like, hey, how would Iupgrade these lyrics to make a
song more popular?
Right, I wouldn't do that.
(27:45):
But what I would do is say, askmore of the higher brain
questions, whether it isscientific, whether it's medical
, those type of things, becauseit will go through that
information and make itunderstandable.
I think that to me and this isbased off of my experience, but
(28:10):
I think that is what makes chatGPT so special, not a
conversational version of Google.
You know what I mean yeah.
You're right.
So, and with that said too, Ido like Bard, which I guess you
could say is a conversationalversion of Google, but it is
(28:33):
something that the focus of itis different, the purpose of it
is different, and it can helpyou find what you would need on
the internet a lot moreeffectively.
But yeah, again, I think Bardis or, I'm sorry, I think chat
GPT is so impactful.
You know what I mean.
Denison (28:52):
Yeah, I'm right there with you.
John (28:56):
Yeah, yeah.
So I hate to see this going onwith this drama.
It seems very unsettled.
I think I would like to seechat GPT if they're again.
This is us assuming that thereis some subtle push for
Microsoft to take it over.
I would like to see OpenAI stayits own course with the
(29:22):
leadership it's had, andcontinue to develop and benefit
everyone, not just Microsoft,right.
Denison (29:31):
Yeah, exactly, I'm with you.
One other thing I wanted tonote too, just to kind of also
give a little bit more scale ofwhy this is such a big deal of
Altman Sam Altman not being inOpenAI is that the other
(29:53):
co-founder or another one of theco-founders of OpenAI also left
.
John (30:01):
You got pushed out Same thing.
Denison (30:04):
Well, he didn't get pushed out.
He quit Insolidarity for Altmanbecause he was apparently from
what was.
There were some leakeddocuments, but apparently it
seemed to be a very, a very just, quick experience, like there
(30:33):
wasn't.
It didn't sound like he had alot of information at first,
like, while it sounded likeessentially like they told him,
hey, come into this meeting and,boom, you know, you're fine,
essentially so it wasn't therewas.
So I think that was the otherreason why Greg was it Bachman
(31:00):
left.
Yes, I think that's anotherreason why he left is because he
didn't really enjoy that typeof an ousting, because that's
just kind of bizarre and alittle crazy.
John (31:16):
Yeah, yeah, well, and you know what too?
Now, granted, we don't knowthese people and with the tech,
we only know what happens on ourend of things, right.
So I can't fully say thesepeople are good people, because
we don't know.
(31:36):
But what I would say is it doesseem like they're genuinely
passionate about what they weredoing, right, mm-hmm, and to the
point where they didn't wantanything to be impacted with
(31:56):
their work.
You know, yeah, and so I thinkthat that is kind of one of the
biggest things that you've seenwith this.
The is odd that so many peoplewould be convinced to follow and
go to Microsoft because of this, right, mm-hmm.
But you know, for 700 people tobe working on this technology
(32:22):
and other related technologies,they seem, and with how consumer
friendly and beneficial it hasbeen, that to me kind of gives
the result, if you will, thatthese people are passionate and
confident and want the best tocome out from this technology.
(32:44):
That's just my opinion could becompletely wrong, because we
don't know.
You know, yeah, but that is howit appears anyway.
So this has been good.
I'm glad we jumped in on thisone.
Let's move on to that secondtopic, which is Meta's
mind-reading AI, right.
So here's the thing.
So it's an AI, brain-computerinterface technology.
(33:09):
Very interesting.
Now, this is in partnershipwith the University of Texas and
scientists that are there,which is cool.
Us having talked about Meta, itdoes kind of concern me that
they're involved.
They don't want to be involvedwith this, you know Mm-hmm, but
(33:31):
they claim to have developed asystem that can scan a human
brain and replicate the images aperson is thinking about, using
what's calledmagneto-sophilography.
It's a very big word.
Magneto-sophilography, I think,is how?
Or philography, sorry,philography.
(33:51):
Or Meg, yeah, or Meg for short.
So Meg 3, meg 3, meg 3, meg 3,meg 3, meg 3, meg 3, meg 3, meg
3, Meg.
3, Meg 3, Meg 3, Meg 3, Meg 4,Meg 3, Meg 4.
So Meg 3 will be about thistechnology and AI.
While the technology has justgained started, its potential
(34:13):
applications for those withneurological issues are immense.
But of course there's someethical and privacy concerns as
well.
Let's jump into that a littlebit more.
What would you say are thebenefits of this technology On
this as well?
Denison (34:34):
So, and for clarification, I think it's
actually, I think it's kind oflike a twofer.
The University of Texas atAustin also created, using AI,
this decoder technology, meta's,similar tech, right, yeah, yeah
.
So the University of Texas atAustin created a decoder to read
(34:59):
brainwaves and turn that intotext text that you can read
essentially.
So, essentially, you'rethinking something.
It'll say like boom, this isnow you were thinking about
purple and it wrote down purple,so, bam, purple.
It's something similar to that,right, where Meta's is more,
(35:24):
theirs is interesting becauseit's not just that it's reading
the brainwaves, but in this case, in the experiment that they
did, they were showing a person,while they were in the machine,
pictures, right, and it wasMeta's AI essentially.
(35:45):
Well, ai decoder type dealthing was able to read those
brainwaves, those liveinterpreted brainwaves, and say,
okay, this is a picture, thisis what that picture is.
So think of like Dolly andChatGPT kind of working together
(36:06):
really quickly, right, sure,because this is all happening
live.
I think that was kind of thebigger part with Meta's is that
it was a live translation.
So if someone saw a plane, itwould essentially replicate.
It would say, like well, thislooks like a plane, so plane.
And it could replicate it almostidentically without actually
(36:29):
knowing the image sets in thistraining data, right?
So that's the biggest thing,because, yeah, sure, you could
say, well, these are the set ofimages that it has the potential
to you know out of what thesebrainwaves are.
You can do that, but it didn'thave any of that.
It was just essentially on thefly, just reading it and going
(36:52):
through there.
So that's what's kind of reallyreally interesting about this
is that you have one side fromthe University of Texas at
Austin's side, which is justdecoder type.
So you have one side from theUniversity of Austin, the
University of Texas at Austin'sside, which is just decoding
brainwaves and saying and kindof essentially reading out
(37:16):
thoughts.
And then you have another sidewhich is reading out images,
which is another, a whole notherball game, right?
Sure, one also was doing it inlive time, where one was more
along the lines of studyingbrainwaves over time and saying,
cool, they're also using.
Meta was doing it live.
Sorry, was it Meta?
Yeah, meta was doing it livethe.
(37:38):
Also the interesting part about,if I'm not mistaken, the Meta's
one is that it was using theway that they had it created is
that it was essentially a neuralnetwork right, using a neural
network to copy essentiallybrainwaves right, because the
(38:00):
neural networks, the way thatthose are kind of designed, is
it's a way to try to copy orreplicate the human brain.
Sure, sure, and so it was intheir model they have it to
where it's using these neuralnetworks to be able to decipher
what actual brainwaves are doing, to essentially mimic what a
brain is doing and saying well,okay, so if I'm doing this and
(38:24):
this brain is doing this, we'resimilar-ish, so that means we're
probably thinking the samething.
And here's what we're saying.
That's kind of how Meta'sworked.
And so again, two slightly twodifferent technologies, but
they're using similar patterns,the one at University of Texas,
(38:44):
at Austin.
What's really interesting aboutthat is that they were using
chat GP, or not even chat GPT,but GPT-1, which is the base,
earliest version of the GPTmodels that we know today, which
we're at chat GPT or we're atGPT-4 now.
So it's a very big.
(39:07):
It's pretty crazy how far theywere able to get with using such
an older version, and it makesyou wonder where they can get to
if they were to say use GPT-4for the same process, yeah.
John (39:26):
Yeah, that's a good point too.
If it were more advanced, whatwould that look like?
Of course they're using justthe most basic version to kind
of build what the technologywould be like, right?
Denison (39:37):
Correct.
John (39:38):
But with that said which, I have a follow-up question to
this.
But what were the biggest goalsof UT's?
Well, really both One of thebiggest goals of their
interactions why were they usingthis?
We kind of mentioned earlierhow some of this technology
(40:04):
could be used to help people whohave mental issues, whether it
was something unfortunately theywere born with or what have you
use this interaction?
But I'd be interested to knowhow that is.
And then, of course, what othergoals are by them making this
and testing these technologies.
Denison (40:23):
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, I think what you said is true.
You know, of course, people whohave mental issues or mental
blocks or something similar tothat.
There's a potential ofessentially being able to read
someone's brain waves live andthen being able to spit that out
(40:44):
onto I don't know, atext-to-speech something and
then essentially, that personcan speak through their thoughts
or speak outside or whateverlike that.
Give them ability to speakagain without having to actually
like I don't know, help withoutsome of the other stuff.
(41:06):
So there's that possibility.
But I think one of the biggestthings for both of these is just
a better way to understand howthe brain works.
I think that is probably one ofthe biggest points of this type
of research is to betterunderstand how the brain works,
because if we understand that,we can create not just a way of
(41:32):
I don't know telepathy.
I don't think we'll ever get tothat point, because both of
these methods were passive,essentially right.
So there weren't ones where youhad an electrode stick directly
into your brain and saying, allright, now we've got it.
These were taking scans, right.
(41:53):
Someone was in an MRI machine orsomething similar to that, and
then another person was well,another one.
It was a past MRI machine andthey were grabbing the
information and then feeding itin that way.
So it's a little bit different,but I could see it being a big
(42:15):
help in research of how wecommunicate and how our thoughts
are created and all sorts ofother stuff like that, and also
maybe even creating ways to, ifthere are mental illness blocks,
to see how those brains compareand see if maybe it's something
wrong with these networks andmaybe try to figure out what can
(42:41):
be fixed and how you can kindof go around that right Sure
Creating, like I was talkingabout with Metas, since they
created kind of like a mimic orsemi-brain or whatever like that
neural network brain.
There's a higher probability ofbeing able to use this
(43:03):
information to create morerealistic versions of brains
essentially virtual brains thatAIs can utilize and be able to
develop a lot faster too.
So there's a lot of really coolstuff that can come out of this
research.
John (43:22):
With that now, and I definitely get where you're
coming from too.
You know I will say I want toknow if you agree with me on
this, with UT being a part ofthis and using this technology.
I could see how that would,because, before I say what I'm
about to say, the averageknowledge of the human brain is
(43:50):
so small compared to what weunderstand the human brain being
capable of doing right.
There's so many different thingsthat even people don't know I'm
saying scientists as to whatfunctions the brain to act this
(44:10):
way, right, and those type ofthings, and so I could see how
integration at a place like UTwould benefit that knowledge,
which would lead to treatmentoptions or just scientific
understanding, and how we couldgrow our own brain and that kind
(44:33):
of thing, right.
Whereas with Metta I'm not ahater, I know we're live
streaming on Facebook right now,but with that it does concern
me that Metta, a company that isbased on consumership, is
(44:56):
trying to learn more about thebrain, right, and they have an
artificial world that you canput your headphones on and
interact with, but then youwatch a movie like Ready Player
One, right, and then Metta isstudying the brain.
They're trying to build that AIacross the board.
(45:20):
It really just I hate to kindof jump on a ledge, but I do
want to know what your thoughtsare.
What I mean is I hate to kindof be bold with this opinion,
this level of bold, but it doesseem like it could be an effort
(45:41):
on their end to expand their AItechnology to where it's fully
integrating you know what I mean.
Denison (45:50):
Yeah yeah, I think that that is a possibility.
I also wouldn't be surprised toif I mean sorry, oh, I also
wouldn't be too surprised if andmaybe this is a longer term
(46:15):
thing, but Just thinking aboutthe, thinking about being able
to use this brain activity to,as well as the Personalized or
not personalized, but the star,fake, star influence or things
(46:40):
that they're creating, which areAIs, right, utilizing both of
these together, I could easilysee something as a way to again
like we talked about that, thatprevious episode, which was a
way to create A more fullversion of what a person is
(47:03):
right, of what this customer is,and so being able to sell who
that person is to an advertiserbecomes insanely lucrative.
So, sure, and on the high endspectrum, I could easily see
something similar to thathappening Now.
Do I think that's a little farfetch?
Yes, but I can.
(47:25):
I can easily see that I canconnect the dots to say that
maybe a possibility of whattheir end goal could be.
Right, sure, because Neta orMeta has never really been a
great company when it came toour privacy.
Right, you know, they're notafraid to sell our data at all.
John (47:51):
They're not.
They're not, and that goes backto something we've talked about
multiple times Tiktok became aproblem for the government
because it's from China, butequally privacy invading is meta
Yep, if not even more so.
So that's an interesting takethat you have on that.
(48:13):
Again, meta, please let us dowell with this live stream.
We want to thank you foreverything you do.
Denison (48:19):
Yeah, please don't suppress us.
John (48:23):
But with that said too, I want to know your thoughts on
what you were mentioning If theybegan to use this like chat GPT
for right, for example, themost, the most consumer advanced
available version of chat GPTand by they I'm mainly meaning
(48:46):
University of Texas, universityof Texas, you know but with
those with the research and withthe investment in that, what
would be the goal of using themore advanced chat GPT In a
situation like this?
What do you think their goal isfor that?
Denison (49:07):
Um, I think, in this kind of scenario, I think I
think if you could get it towhere you have these, you know
this higher version of chat GPTbeing able to interpret, not
just because we already know howgood Chat GPT is in general
just analyzing texts, right,when we feed in prompts of our
(49:31):
own that we create, as well asprompts of articles and stuff
like that.
Now, again, I have to alwaysiterate this that chat GPT is a
chat GPT.
I iterate this that chat GPT isa transformer model of AI and
(49:55):
what that does is the biggestthing about it is that its core
functionality is akin toGuessing Right, guessing what
you're, what the next word orsequence of words needs to be to
form whatever, right, mm.
(50:17):
Hmm, that's true, that's thebiggest thing.
And, in short, some ways youcould say that that's kind of
what we already are doing, butit's a lot more nuanced than
that.
Um, but that is what it isbeing used or that is what it's
doing.
So, going back to what I wastrying to say is, I could see it
(50:38):
as as the University of Austin,austin, being able to one be
able to, at a much higher degree, decode someone's brain waves
into, you know full text thatmakes sense.
But not just that, but alsoimages as well, being able to
(50:58):
ingest those images, thatsomeone is looking at, these
brain waves and saying, ok,maybe this isn't a word per se,
but this is an image.
And so now let's add morecontext to what an image would
look like.
And again, these are thingsthat can be used for medical.
They can be used for otheradvancements when it comes to
(51:22):
you know, I don't know AR.
How AR works, interacts with ourbrain.
It can do a lot of stuff.
I could even see it as a way ofdiagnosing people with certain
brain disorders or somethingsimilar to that.
I guess I should really saylike mental illnesses and stuff
like that, without actuallyhaving to I don't know go
(51:45):
through so many tests orwhatever like that.
So there's the possibilities inthis.
I think, really, they're goingto push it to a lot of these
technologies, to as much as tothe highest degree, to get a
better idea of what they want todo.
John (51:58):
Well, I agree, and I hear what you're saying too, because
One thing that I do think wouldbe beneficial is using a more
advanced you know again chat GPTfor, for example.
I think would be beneficial in away of not like the movie
(52:18):
upgrade or have you where an AIis trying to converse with you
and your brain and take it over,but rather using the foundation
to analyze just how the brainworks, because, again, there's
so much unknown.
If I'm not mistaken, we reallyonly understand 10 to 15% of how
(52:43):
our brain functions.
You know, it might be a littlemore than that, but I do
remember there's a largepercentage that isn't known, you
know, isn't fully understood.
And so being able to analyzethat and understand, just for
health purposes, right?
(53:03):
Yep, yeah, I think that's agood point.
Actually, you know what?
Let me look that up real quick.
What is?
Let me ask chat GPT for why not?
Yeah, might as well.
(53:26):
What is the percentage of ourbrain's function that we
understand.
It's kind of a weird way tophrase that.
We'll see what it says.
Yeah, we'll see how it does.
The exact percentage of ourbrain's function that we
understand is subject of debateand ongoing research in the
(53:47):
field of neuroscience.
I was right, dude.
Traditionally, it's been saidthat humans use only a small
fraction of their brain'spotential, often quoted as 10%.
However, this is a myth.
In reality, we see virtuallyevery part of our brain.
Denison (54:04):
Right.
John (54:06):
And most of the brain is active all the time, for sure.
Yeah, so modern neurosciencehas shown that the brain is
highly complex andinterconnected organ, with each
part having a specific function.
Functional magnetic resonanceimaging and other brain scanning
technologies have allowedscientists to observe brain
activity and have shown thateven simple tasks require the
(54:27):
coordination of multiple areasof the brain.
However, understanding how thebrain functions in its entirety
is still a significant challenge.
Estimates of how much weunderstand about the brain very
widely, very widely, v-a-r-y.
There are many, and it'sdifficult to quantify this
(54:49):
understanding in a precisepercentage.
There are many aspects of brainfunctions, such as the exact
mechanisms of consciousness,memory and the intricate
workings of neurotransmitters,are not fully understood.
So I think the latter,especially, would be where the
research funnels the most right.
Yeah.
(55:10):
So, yeah, I think that's goodinformation.
Denison (55:13):
Yeah, I think so.
Imagine with me that in the farfuture or maybe not know, not
to distant future, we're able touse this technology you know,
when it's matured to an X, to ahigh amount, to be able to
(55:34):
remember our dreams.
Wouldn't that be kind of neat,right?
You put like a headset on yourhead and you sleep and then you
wake up and then you get like aplayback of your dream.
That'd be weird, it would be.
It'd be pretty neat, though Imean, you know, if you're into
that.
John (55:57):
I don't like living that way, bro.
I'm not against dreaming, butreliving dreams kind of freaks
me out.
Denison (56:04):
You just get to see it.
It'd be like a YouTube video,yeah that's true, like a YouTube
video of your brain or of yourdream stream live on YouTube
with that for sure.
John (56:16):
No, I'm not against dreams or anything like that.
I just think the idea ofrewatching it would kind of be
weird to me.
But I'm not against that fight.
Totally get what you're saying,brooke.
Also thank you for jumping inthe comments.
We love you being on the streamwith us and thank you as well.
But yeah, so that's a.
(56:37):
That's an interesting one, butthat gives, I think, a lot of
good information on this.
And honestly, man, I say weslam into this last one real
quick.
What do you think?
Of course, of course.
Denison (56:50):
Yeah, we can run through this one.
This one's a little bit quickerI can, I can take it away on
this one.
John (56:57):
Yeah.
Denison (56:58):
So so Apple right in a move that shocked everyone,
apple is going to open up RCS,which is rich.
What does it stand for?
It says rich, rich somethingtext or something similar to
that.
It's essentially a much moreencrypted version of a regular
(57:24):
standard text message Mostphones, most Android phones,
have moved over to richcommunication services.
John (57:36):
That's what I'm seeing.
Denison (57:37):
I knew it was rich something.
There it is, God I'm buying aniPhone.
Yeah, but it so beforehand,right, let me set the scene here
right In the United States,because I have to preface it by
in the United States, becausethis is completely different
(58:01):
around the world.
Sure, sure, sure In the UnitedStates.
Someone in the United Statesmajority of people will use who,
if they have a iPhone, they usethe default Not even just an
iPhone is really, in general,most phones they're going to use
the default messaging app thatis on their phone.
(58:22):
So for iPhone users, that's Imessage, which most iPhone users
don't understand.
That technically, the way thatI message is it's just a
glorified web client, becauseessentially, all of your texts
and all that other good stuff isup in the cloud and then it's
(58:44):
just reading that data off of aserver.
Essentially, that's the reasonwhy you can do certain things
that are a little bit different,right, but the nice thing about
I message is that you getencrypted.
You get encrypted messaging.
You get higher quality videosand higher quality like custom
(59:12):
images and stuff like that.
Right, sure, all sent out.
And then, of course, there'sother kind of cool things that
you can do, like stickers andall sorts of other cool stuff
like that, right that you can doinside of I message.
Apple has done a great job ofbeing able to integrate that and
make it feel like somethingthat you really just can't live
(59:32):
with that.
So on the other side of thespectrum, oh, and I guess I
should also preface it by sayingwhenever you are texting
another iPhone user who is alsousing I message, they will send
off a blue bubble.
Right, you get a blue bubble,that's this whole.
(59:54):
And then, of course, when youare not a user and you are
texting someone who is using anAndroid phone, that text message
becomes a SMS, which is just aregular old, plain old text text
green text yes, you then, andthe other person because you yes
(01:00:17):
, yes, you get a green bubble.
Exactly yes, you must shame themfor having a green bubble
because it yes, it messes withall of your fun Apple stuff.
John (01:00:28):
This is why I only talk on the phone.
Denison (01:00:35):
But anyway, so most of so.
Moving over to the Android side, or the Android side right, for
years they have been using justregular old SMS, which is, like
I said, your regular old,regular, regular, no encryption,
just plain text being sent overcellular data.
(01:00:59):
Well, a few years ago, googleinvested a lot of money in
creating not in creating, butco-working with another service
or whatever like that to createRCS, which is that rich
(01:01:20):
communication service that addsin a lot of cool functionality
that a lot of the iPhone usersare getting in their iMessage,
so that is higher quality video,higher quality photos,
encrypted messages, as well asthose typing indicators, which
are cool, a couple of otherthings that kids sent through
(01:01:44):
and that kind of work a littlebit better.
They started to implement thatinto most of their Android
phones and Google has beenpushing for years at this point
to try to get Apple to just addthat standard in, because what
that will do is now you havethis ability for both iPhone and
(01:02:09):
Android users to be able tosend encrypted messages, to have
those typing indicators, as youcan normally get, also those
red received kind of deals thatyou normally get to on iMessage
and stuff like that, as well asRCS.
Whenever you're talking withsomeone else who also has RCS,
(01:02:31):
you get an opportunity to beable to send better videos, all
sorts of other stuff.
Google has been hounding Appleto truly push this as much as
possible, because it's a betterexperience, not just for their
users, but for all users, right?
Sure, no more green bubbleversus blue bubble, which is
(01:02:53):
interesting, yeah.
So Apple announced a few daysago that they are opening this
up or they are going to add RCSto iMessage in 2024.
So then that way, everybodygets the blue bubble goodness.
(01:03:15):
But it's probably not going tobe true.
Honestly, they're probablyeither going to keep it green
just because they want to again,it's another thing that Apple
can use to keep people in theirworld garden, but maybe it'll
stay green or maybe it'll changeto a different color.
(01:03:37):
But big thing about it is justthat we are now moving on to a
better standard, and it shouldmake messaging people a lot
better.
Again, this is a United Statesproblem, because in other
countries they actually use mostcountries use like WhatsApp to
(01:04:00):
communicate.
John (01:04:01):
Right, which is weird, but that's a whole other
conversation.
Denison (01:04:05):
It's only weird to us.
For them they're just like well, why would I use the default
messaging client?
I can use WhatsApp, whichcommunicates perfectly, which is
really good communicationacross the board, right?
You don't have any weirdincompatibility issues and it's
encrypted, and you get highresolution photos and you get
(01:04:26):
breed right Receipts.
You get all the cool stuff.
John (01:04:30):
Yeah, well, I get that sympathy on that for sure.
I just feel like it gets weirdwith how well at least the way
they promote it to us is howhidden they are all the messages
can be.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, for like how WhatsApp canbe, or at least it was.
(01:04:52):
I know that I don't know ifit's quite to that level now,
but you could message peoplewithout sharing who.
You are right.
Denison (01:05:03):
No, I mean you have to have a phone number and all
sorts of other stuff like that.
There may be certain parts ofit, but I mean, whatsapp was
supposed to always be a.
One of the biggest thingsthat's nice about it is that
it's great for internationaltravel because it doesn't
require that cellular service.
(01:05:24):
It just requires like a file orsomething similar to that.
John (01:05:28):
Okay, well, you know, try and think of what I what.
I don't know if it was an earlyversion of that or if I'm just
misremembering that I very muchcould be.
Oh, you know what I bet it'sTelegram.
Denison (01:05:45):
Yeah, that might have been what you were thinking of.
John (01:05:47):
Yeah, I think so, and Telegram was trying to present
itself as a competitor toWhatsApp, so that's probably
what I thought of that.
But yeah, so regardless of thatand all that stuff, I do think
it's interesting because thisintegration right would be just
for Google, like Google Pixelkind of phones, for example.
Denison (01:06:12):
No, no, at this point, most Android manufacturers have
added the Google messagingapplication, which is one of the
big ones that is pushing theRCS.
But most Android phonesnowadays are actually pushing
(01:06:34):
that, that messaging client, soit doesn't just benefit them.
I know, like Samsung, they'vemade that their default
messaging app.
I believe you know.
Of course Google has.
I believe some of the othermanufacturers Android
manufacturers have as well, soit's not all that surprising.
John (01:07:00):
You have a frozen Denison.
Denison (01:07:05):
Yeah, we do Give me one more.
I'll be back there it is.
I should be back now.
Yep, yep, yep, yep, you areback and we got the audio.
John (01:07:17):
Yeah, I guess.
Denison (01:07:18):
Yeah, I got some weird stuff going on, but anyway, yeah
, most Android phones now havemoved over to a messenger that
has RCS on it.
John (01:07:35):
Okay, well, I think that's interesting, and I will say too
, as someone who, within thelast few days, upgraded my
laptop to Windows 11.
Again, this is my personallaptop and I found that
(01:07:58):
Microsoft has an app calledPhone Link, where you can link
to your Android or you can linkyour iPhone.
Yep, I do, I'm a better.
I will admit this, you know, issituational, but I am a better
text messenger a lot of times asfar as typing it out on a
keyboard rather than hold myphone and go like this right,
(01:08:22):
I'm just more of a consistentreplyer through that.
With that said, if I open theapp right now, it won't show any
of my messages.
In fact, it gives me a randomlist of suggested contacts.
Denison (01:08:38):
Strange.
John (01:08:39):
Yeah, yeah.
So, with that said, if I wereto create new message and the
message you I mean, I could pickright up where we had left off
last, not a problem, but won'tshow me anything until you reply
, and only then does it startbuilding a thread, right?
But that only lasts until Ireset the computer or shut the
(01:09:05):
app off, right, and then youhave to start from square one
again.
So I have a dozen on red textmessages right now.
I apologize.
I apologize to all involved, butit won't show me any of them on
that app.
So I do wonder.
I hope for them that that meansthey'll integrate with other
(01:09:28):
apps like that.
Obviously that one's more selfserving me, but I just wonder
how big of a growth we would seefrom this technology being
integrated and how much it wouldintegrate with other stuff.
Denison (01:09:43):
Yeah, I mean I think it'll be interesting as well as
strange that you're getting that.
I honestly have not had thatissue with me doing it on my
computer, because I've done it acouple of times have you.
I have.
It's a phone link app.
It works great yeah.
John (01:10:05):
You do it with your Android phone, right?
Correct?
Yeah, yeah, it's all right, butI do imagine that that is
completely different, you know?
I mean because even I'll giveyou this example right now, it
doesn't show those messagesunless I just started typing one
(01:10:26):
, and it says your recentmessages will appear here.
This is from messages,obviously, and it gives me every
other notification on the sidetoo that I could just look at
but not interact with Mm-hmm.
And then if I went from whichbeing like, you know, like
Facebook, youtube, upwork, allthat kind of stuff, but then if
I hit calls, it says we cannotconnect your device.
(01:10:50):
Please reset phone link, whichwould just remove my device and
I'd have to reconnect it, whichis interesting.
Yeah, and it's not factualbecause it reconnects every time
I shut and turn the app back on, so it's just not it's not the
best integration.
(01:11:10):
It does make me wonder if thatkind of stuff will improve for
people as well.
Denison (01:11:15):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, yeah, hopefully it does,hopefully it does.
Yeah, because, yeah, that'ssort of strange it is.
John (01:11:24):
I'm glad it's free, but at least it's free coming with
Windows 11.
But if I remember right too,that app was already available
on Windows 10, if I rememberright.
Correct.
Denison (01:11:41):
Correct, but I'm currently using it on Windows 10
.
John (01:11:44):
Gotcha.
Denison (01:11:45):
Okay.
John (01:11:46):
Yeah, but it wouldn't connect iPhone unless it was the
Windows 11 version, correct?
So all these people are movingthis technology more integrated
with iPhone, even just as simpleas something.
We talked a little while backabout the new iPhones charged
with USB C's.
Now, right, I think this is anational and an international
(01:12:11):
level to make it more like theother phones as far as those
things that block it from beingused by other technology, right.
Denison (01:12:21):
Yes, and I do want to also say this is that Apple
didn't do this on purpose.
They didn't.
If it was up to Apple, theywouldn't have done this.
They were forced to do this byan EU regulation that
(01:12:42):
essentially a EU bill orwhatever like that that passed
that requires this essentiallything, and so USB C right.
Yes, usb C and RCS.
John (01:12:56):
Oh, okay, I didn't know it was a ladder as well.
Denison (01:12:58):
Yes, Exactly, Exactly.
Apple is not someone tointegrate any of this.
Again, a lot of this stuff isto make it easier for all users
to be able to communicate ondevices and stuff like that, not
just for one manufacturer tohave a monopoly on certain
(01:13:20):
things.
So that is something that Iwanted to pop out there, because
I think some people would readit and say like, oh man, Apple
is really doing a good job, butit's more of a regulation thing
that they're being forced to dothis.
John (01:13:41):
Sure, that's interesting and it's wild.
It took this long for it tostart transpiring.
But as someone who was always,has always has been Team iPhone,
I'm not in the way of, yeah,make it your own thing and
everybody else has to adjustaccordingly.
(01:14:02):
No, make it integrate withstuff like that, just like all
other related technology does.
I completely agree.
So well, look, we touched on alot.
It is a late night.
I think we covered a lot and itwas great, and thank you, guys
for jumping on the live streamas well.
Thank you for watching with us,thank you for having the
(01:14:24):
comments as well.
This is what we do every singleweek and, of course, this one.
We knocked out early, but alsowent late because it is staying
in week.
And I just want to say too eventhough the audio version of
this goes live on, technically,cyber Monday, if you, if you're
looking for something to buy onCyber Monday, hit the link.
(01:14:46):
We got some really cool merchthat you can check out.
We sure think you're going tolove it.
So, with that said, though,just real quick, man.
What would you say that you'rethankful for?
What's the one thing you wouldmention?
Denison (01:15:05):
I think just you know family and friends.
Honestly, I think that isprobably one of the biggest
things I felt more this yearthat I've been really thankful
for.
John (01:15:19):
Yeah, well, it's interesting because, for those
who don't know us personally,it's not presses like those that
make us literally the sameperson, just brothers.
You know what I mean, because Ihave the exact same feeling and
very thankful for those whosurround us and care for us
(01:15:42):
genuinely.
But not just that.
I'm very thankful for you, bro,because you are among the
pinnacle of that, and very, verythankful.
Denison (01:15:52):
So oh, thank you, bro.
I'm incredibly thankful for you.
Man Like, yeah, this year'sbeen crazy and you know, I don't
know what I would do with that.
John (01:16:05):
Well, thank you, and the feeling is absolutely mutual,
and with all of that, too, we'rethankful for all of you
listeners and watchers as well.
Thank you for being a part ofthis podcast in some capacity
all the time, and thank you forjumping on, whether it's a live
stream or whether it's the audio.
We really, really appreciate it, and just to be able to do this
(01:16:27):
and grow this and have fundoing it, that it's an awesome
blessing.
So, thank you guys.
Yeah, exactly.
Denison (01:16:34):
Yeah, thank you.
For what?
Four years of support.
Five, five years.
Sorry, I'm off, I'm off.
Yeah, five years of support.
You know, it's been a longjourney, it's been great and
it's super fun.
We're continuously, you know,trying to innovate and you know,
(01:16:58):
thank you for being along forthe ride.
And, yes, right.
John (01:17:02):
And I think to continue this.
Yeah, absolutely, and we will,and I think we have some really
exciting things that are aroundthe corner with that as well,
which, of course, once theystart developing, we'll be sure
to talk more and more about.
So yeah, thank you guys.
So much for listening, thankyou for watching.
(01:17:24):
Have a happy Thanksgiving, ifyou're listening on the audio.
Have a happy weekend ofshopping, and we'll catch up
with you guys next week.
Man, we do have quite an interesting topic this week.
We sure do yeah, and it is well.
And there are a few of them, afew big headlines for us to
touch on you know, so this willbe a good one.
And the first of them, actually,why don't I just label them
real quick, off the top right,do it up.
(00:21):
I just want to say I'm thankfulthat we have so much good stuff
to talk about.
Number one we're talking aboutthe open AI.
Shakeup is how we're titlingthis?
Because the guy who foundedopen AI and led to where we're
(00:46):
at with chat, gpt and thingslike that, he ended up getting
forced out by their new board ofdirectors.
Now, for those who don't fullyknow how this stuff works, I
think most of you probably do,but you know, board of directors
are often people who are fromother organizations, you know,
(01:08):
and that's what this is.
That's what's led to himgetting voted out.
So, if I'm not mistaken right,he is going to work at Microsoft
.
Is that correct?
Denison (01:22):
Yes, yeah, one of the board members does work at
Microsoft.
John (01:29):
Yes, yes, that is true too , isn't it?
Which is very bizarre aboutthis story as well, but I don't
think it's officially officialyet, but I do think that
Microsoft is the main option forwhere he would go.
What's been even moreinteresting about that is last I
(01:49):
saw, which was just two daysago, over 500 of the 700 staff
at open AI have said they'regoing to leave, and all said
that they would go to Microsoft.
This will actually bring up apart of this story that I kind
(02:10):
of have a weird thought about,you know, because it seems very
oddly manipulative, but we'lldive into that for sure.
Number two the second topicwe're going to talk about is
Meta's mind reading, ai, andthen working with the University
of Texas right On thistechnology to help.
(02:34):
I mean, really, what the goalof a lot of this is right now is
to help people who have somesort of mental issue, if you
will.
Right yeah, whether it wassomething genetic or something
that they in incurred throughsome part of their life, right
(02:56):
yeah, and it's interesting howthe services involve basically
chat GPT, but chat GPT one, yeahexactly earlier version of chat
GPT Right.
Stuff that us consumers havenever used, because the first
version of chat GPT that cameout was three right.
Denison (03:20):
Yeah, exactly.
Well, 3.5 is what is what chatGPT was using utilizing.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
John (03:27):
Yes, yes, so you know what that means.
It's three, but they added someinteraction stuff to make it
more usable for the averageperson, right, correct?
Oh yeah, and so that will be aninteresting one for us to dive
into.
Also, apple's RCS revolution,man, mm, hmm, that's that's.
(03:49):
The goal of this is for it tointeract with Android phones
more easily, right?
Denison (03:53):
Exactly, exactly.
Some people are calling it theblue, the green bubble killer.
The green bubble killer, yousay yeah, exactly.
John (04:04):
So that's.
The main thing is to make itall blue, blue messages, right?
Denison (04:08):
I mean it's sure and the easiest way.
Yeah, we could say somethinglike that.
It's a little bit morecomplicated and we will go into
that.
Yeah, okay, Well, what?
John (04:20):
does that mean?
What does that look like?
We have a lot to talk about, mmhmm, and we're going to slam
into it, man, so let's go aheadand start rolling.
What's going on?
Everybody?
I'm John and I'm Denison, andthis is the catch up.
(04:50):
I just want to tease real quick,too, that we are on the cusp of
having a new theme, finally, mmhmm.
Sure, yes, and it's veryexciting.
It's something that I have beenworking on, not of my own
creation, but with the guy thatwe've worked with for this Very
good.
He's been kind of in my for alittle while, but he's had other
(05:13):
things going on, which istotally fine.
So we'll have an extendedversion, we'll have a tight
version, and it's going to bereally sick.
So we can't wait for you guysto check that out, but we want
you otherwise to check out thethree best ways to support this
show.
(05:34):
Number one there it is.
There's an example of what aone looks like.
Mm hmm.
Number one Leave us a ratingand review.
Where ever you're listening orwatching, those options are
always available.
Sometimes it's as simple ashang the like button on the
button.
Hang the like button on thevideo when you watch the live
(05:56):
stream or subscribing Right, andthen other times you listen to
the audio version and you leavea rating and review.
It very much is quick, it'svery effective, it helps us a
lot to grow, it helps us to bein front of new audience and
(06:16):
then lets us know what we'redoing well and what, if anything
, we can improve on.
So Super helpful.
Number two there's a number twoWell jump on the.
Just in case, jump on the livestream with us.
We go live, except for thisweek because of the holiday.
(06:37):
You'll live every Thursday OnFacebook and on YouTube.
You get to jump in with us inreal time, make your voice heard
, let us know what you thinkabout the topics that we're
discussing in real time, and isour favorite part of the show,
to be honest is to give youthoughts, oh yeah, yeah and hear
(06:59):
what you have going on.
And number three there it is.
If you want to support, oh,there's a three, thank God.
Well, I will say, if that wasan Apple iPhone, then probably
interact a lot better with thenew RCS revolution.
I digress.
Denison (07:21):
Maybe, maybe, maybe.
There you go.
John (07:26):
Just over here flexing man , I'm holding right there.
Well, number three, if you wantto support us monetarily, we
have a whole store that's linkedwhere every listening and
wherever you're watching, withmerch and apparel, and we have
new merch on there too that wereally think you'll like.
Genuinely, I might never Whoawhich is?
(07:50):
There we go.
That's the one I expected.
Yeah, yeah, so I got weird fora second.
But no, honestly, with allsincerity, there are a lot of
new options for you guys tocheck out and we really think
(08:12):
that you would like them.
So all of that are three bestways to support this show.
And with that said, let's diveinto this topic.
Man Topics yeah, man, old mejust gets so hyped for the new
us dude.
Denison (08:27):
Yeah, I know man, I know he's feeling it.
John (08:30):
Yes, and it's playing with a soundboard, in case you were
wondering what that is.
But yeah, so, with that said,let's talk about the open AI
shake up first.
Oh my Lord, oh my Lord.
Denison (08:48):
You're trying to get everybody hyped about these,
about these, these topics.
Man, they're pretty dope.
John (08:55):
I hope they're half as high as we're getting.
Man, I know I mean even half ofit.
So so with that, with that saidum, yeah, these open AI changes
are interesting because thisboard of directors voted the bro
out right, which what's hisname?
Denison (09:13):
My name is Sam Altman.
Yes, sam Altman, okay.
John (09:19):
So he gets voted out, but he started chat or, I'm sorry,
started open AI.
Denison (09:25):
Yeah, he was a.
He was a co-founder of the openAI.
John (09:29):
Yeah, and so you know, obviously it's grown a lot since
then, especially just in thelast calendar year, with the
explosion of chat, gpt being thething.
And then you know, going fromthere, uh got a comment going by
the way what's up, darren?
How are things going?
Uh, going well, man, it's goodto hear from you.
(09:49):
Um, yeah, Thank you for jumpingin the comments.
Sorry, we're just getting backto you too, um, but yeah, so,
with that said as well, um, thetech you know has exploded and
all that kind of stuff.
And, as we've talked about forseveral weeks, microsoft well,
(10:09):
we've talked about this just afoundation part for a long time,
which is that Microsoft, uh,owns a large part of open AI
right.
Denison (10:22):
Mm, hmm, yeah, yeah, I mean, um, they don't technically
own them, but they haveinvested, um, they are investing
, I guess I should say I thinkit's like $4 billion uh, into
open AI.
I think it's over.
I suppose the investment issupposed to be over a few years
(10:43):
or whatever like that, but yes,uh, so in some ways they do have
an ownership stake in there.
Uh, just because of the sizableinvestment that they put in
there.
Um, a lot of it is just, youknow, for uh, a lot of the
investment is there for uh,technology sharing and stuff
like that.
Um, as we've already seen witha lot of um open AI's and um
(11:10):
Microsoft's co-pilot and howthose both kind of um mirror
each other open.
John (11:18):
AI's chat, GBT and, and uh , Microsoft's co-pilot, so yeah,
yeah, yeah, and a lot ofsoftware and technology shared
between them, like you weresaying and you know.
And so for for this to be aninteresting situation where, for
some reason, the board ofdirectors decides to make him no
longer be able to lead chat,gpt, then next, or, I'm sorry,
(11:43):
open AI, uh, but then you know,you hear, oh well, now he's
going to be over at Microsoft,which would be working on
co-pilot and those type ofthings.
If I remember right, that stillhasn't been fully settled yet,
that's not affirmed yet.
Denison (11:59):
Uh so technically, at least according to an article
from the Washington Post.
Essentially, the way that itwent down is, you know, of
course, we had it on uh onFriday where they uh, they fired
uh, sam um with their concernsof saying that he was not being
(12:21):
fully candid, candid to theboard about everything that was
going on, um, right, and then,um, on Sunday, they had talks on
trying to get him to returnback, to excuse me, uh, back to
open AI, um, but apparentlythose fell through.
(12:42):
I think, uh, one of the thingsthat Sam put in there as saying
like you know, I'll come back ifyou, you know, of course,
restate, restate um, add him orcast on, reinstate him as the
CEO and um they wanted.
He also wanted all of the boardmembers to um, essentially
(13:05):
leave um all of the boardmembers to resign.
Um, and then he'll come back andhe'll be good.
Um.
Some of the board members wereokay with that, some weren't,
some of them weren't, and so,essentially, the deal collapsed.
Um, and then, uh.
According to this, it says uh.
(13:25):
A few hours later, microsofthired um Sam to lead their AI
research division of Microsoft.
John (13:35):
Yeah, yeah which is interesting because also open AI
is named three CEOs in threedays, correct, since he's left.
That's how much people don'twant to be with that, and that's
what we found, too is over 500people within open AI of the 700
(13:56):
total staff signed a letterthat they would leave and they
would also go to Microsoft,right?
Denison (14:02):
Correct, Correct, To be a part of the new division that
Microsoft has, um uh created,uh, that Sam is going to be in
charge of.
John (14:15):
Yeah, and it has.
He has been hired by them, um,and officially started, like we
were saying.
But what do you think?
You know what?
What does this mean?
Why, why?
What was the push for this Umas far as him being over at
Microsoft?
Now, you know why.
(14:37):
Why was that push for so hard?
Why is that a thing that'shappened?
Cause it seems I say it becauseof this, especially when it's
AI and when it's consumer AI, um, you know, you want it to be
effective, but, of course, youwant it to be safe.
Yep, this does seem how weird,alt, that he got fired but now
(15:09):
he's over it.
Microsoft and 500 staff want tojoin him there.
It almost seems like it's justa normal plan, but they went
through a dark way to make ithappen.
Denison (15:20):
Yeah.
John (15:22):
I mean, yeah, I mean.
I can or go ahead.
Denison (15:25):
No, I just want to know what you think.
No, I mean, I, I can see that.
I can see that, and I wouldn'tbe too surprised if, you know,
some documentary comes out yearslater saying that there was,
there was internal documents ofsomething similar to like this
happening within Microsoft andstuff.
I mean, it would be a greatplay for them.
But, um, I think, uh, the waythat it really played out is the
(15:50):
board um didn't like him, uh,didn't like you know, I don't, I
don't think it might have been.
It may not have been exactly areflection of his leadership
style or like what it wasactually going, because,
honestly, um, Sam did lead thecompany to excuse me, uh, become
(16:12):
as big as um, essentiallybecome as big as it is.
Um, I'm sorry, but yeah, no, itdid receive that Gosh darn.
(16:36):
So sorry, I'm trying to fixsomething going on with it's our
YouTube side, but essentially,sam did you know he did a lot,
he did a lot to get open AI towhere it is right now, and so
(16:58):
it's one of those things that'sa little surprising.
But anyway, I think they oustedthem because they had something
that they didn't like.
They didn't understand the typeof backlash that they were
going to get.
And so when they tried tobackpedal, it kind of blew up in
(17:20):
their face.
And then Microsoft, who alreadyhad a pretty big relationship
with Sam, sam Altman, as well asOpen AI in general, the team at
Open AI yeah, microsoft waseasily able to kind of swoop in,
kind of as this parent,parental figure in some ways,
and just scoop up all thesepeople, right, scoop up Sam,
(17:43):
scoop up a lot of employees, ifthey all actually do decide to
resign and move over toMicrosoft.
So this is a great play for themto kind of make light of a bad
situation that Open AI gotthemselves into.
Yeah, I mean, you know, sure,if I were to go into the more
(18:06):
speculative side, this is anamazing way to get a open AI.
Essentially, get open AIwithout having to spend any real
money, right, sure, you're nothaving to do a full corporate
takeover.
You could just let itselfdestruct, right, let itself
(18:27):
destruct and scoop up all of thepeople that you really want on
that in that company.
And then now you essentiallyhave all of the proprietary, all
of the knowledge, all of theresearch and development, all of
(18:49):
that now in-house for afraction of the price.
John (18:56):
Yeah, which is really where my concern from this comes
from.
As far as what's interesting ofthis on the outside looking in,
because if all those peoplewere to leave from Open AI and
join Microsoft, or even if halfof them did right, you can
(19:19):
pretty much say goodbye Open AI.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, especially with all thoseleaders stepping down or
getting fired or not blasting aCEO after being named as such,
and with the development andintegration of chat GPT software
(19:41):
being so large already withMicrosoft, they're kind of
putting themselves in a positionwhere they could manage and be
the leaders of this kind ofstuff.
And you know, what'sinteresting about this, too, is
we talked about this a couple ofweeks ago, where chat GPT was
(20:08):
blamed for a wild AI crash thatMicrosoft had while they were
developing new AI service.
And then we find out the nextday or, I'm sorry, the next week
, when we had our last episodeof what the Microsoft AI
services they would offer.
(20:29):
Right, and this was built instep with Open AI technology
software.
Yeah, exactly.
Denison (20:37):
Exactly.
John (20:39):
Yeah, Darren, in the comments here he says sorry, I
don't know much about AI, butwhich platform is in lead as far
as AI programs?
It's definitely chat GPT.
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
Denison (20:54):
With the close second being the Bing AI, which has now
been rebranded as co-pilot, andthen, after that, it would be
Google's AI which is barred.
Yeah.
John (21:08):
But also to your point, bing AI is chat, gpt, yep, but
it's suited for the internet,yep, and it was the quickest
thing ever to 100,000 users,right?
Yes, gpt was.
Denison (21:26):
Yeah, it was.
It was other than threads.
Threads technically beat it.
Yeah, that was weird?
John (21:35):
Yeah, but that was a little bit.
No, what are you going to say?
Denison (21:40):
Sorry, no, I was just going to say that was a little
different, because threads wasreally and truly just bringing
over existing users from anotherplatform.
John (21:50):
So yes, and I meant to say 100 million, right, not 100,000
.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah For both.
But you know with you're right,because threads may looking at
now no one even uses that appanymore.
Denison (22:09):
Yeah, exactly.
John (22:11):
But according to the latest available data of this
month, chat GPT currently has180 million users.
So that's kind of crazy.
Yeah, it's pretty substantial.
You know what I mean?
Mm-hmm, but yeah, so that's abig one and I don't really know.
(22:32):
Of course, like I mentioned offthe top here, we want to keep
running through these processesaround these topics as well, but
still that's going to be aninteresting one to watch and
stay on top of.
But I do think that in myopinion and I hate to say this
(22:53):
stuff because I do likeMicrosoft, I like the company, I
like what they've done for workand computing ever since I was
a kid, you know, yeah, but Icannot lie and say that this
doesn't come off as a seems likeit's a subtle plan to take over
(23:16):
the whole technology forthemselves.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Denison (23:20):
Yeah, I mean I can, I can see that.
I can see that it's a great wayfor Microsoft essentially
becoming to become the leader inAI research and development and
in some ways depending on howthings go, you know setting
(23:42):
themselves up to get a monopolyin that space.
John (23:46):
Yeah.
Denison (23:46):
Because that is one thing to think about too.
Like, just let's just say, I'msure you know we're pretty, I'm
sure we're far off from thishappening, but because there is
this, still this weirdrelationship that open AI and
Microsoft still have, eventhough this whole blow up
(24:10):
happened, I wouldn't be toosurprised of, you know, they're
becoming some weird issues whenit comes to like APIs that are
out there that people can usefor open AI, like if they start
(24:31):
having like financial issues andthey have to shut down how that
would work right and howMicrosoft would try to integrate
that into their stuff.
So, and then you know there maybe a Microsoft loves creating
licenses and subscriptions andall sorts of other things, and
so I could see something similaror like a model like that.
(24:51):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, I meanthere's a, there's a lot of it.
I mean, think about it right, ifyou, if you can migrate all of
the users that are already usingchat GPT fully over to co-pilot
not saying that co-pilot is bad, I think the problem is that
(25:17):
co-pilot is still being shadowedor is still in the shadow of
chat GPT, even though they'reusing the exact same thing.
That was the whole purpose ofMicrosoft really saying like, oh
, you know, being AI at the time, like I said, now it's branded
as co-pilot being AI at the timesaying, oh, you know, it's
(25:41):
using chat GPT for, like youknow, that's a big deal.
Where on, if you're using, ifyou're using chat GPT, you're
just using you know 3.5 untilthey allowed you to pay for a
chapter to be T4.
So I think a lot of that wastrying to pull from the market
(26:01):
share that open AI had alreadybuilt up.
So I really could see this kindof becoming a move where
Microsoft, you know, swoops in,grabs all their people and then
can better market to people andsay, hey, if you really want the
(26:21):
best AI, come to over to us,start migrating some of those
users that are already in openAI and, you know, now you've got
a huge new amount of revenuethat's just coming in.
John (26:39):
Right, Well, and that you know.
I think with co-pilot Microsoftco-pilot you know their goal of
how they're trying to serve.
With AI, the services aredifferent, right, Because the
thing about chat GPT is that itcan answer and do so many things
(27:02):
, right, and just the fact that,if I remember right, it's
taught itself with 12,000different scientific research
papers, right, Yep, and that'samazing.
That makes it very versatileand very informative.
(27:24):
And this is a thing I will sayin favor of tech like chat GPT
is the fact that it's notsomething that I would hop on
and be like, hey, how would Iupgrade these lyrics to make a
song more popular?
Right, I wouldn't do that.
(27:45):
But what I would do is say, askmore of the higher brain
questions, whether it isscientific, whether it's medical
, those type of things, becauseit will go through that
information and make itunderstandable.
I think that to me and this isbased off of my experience, but
(28:10):
I think that is what makes chatGPT so special, not a
conversational version of Google.
You know what I mean yeah.
You're right.
So, and with that said too, Ido like Bard, which I guess you
could say is a conversationalversion of Google, but it is
(28:33):
something that the focus of itis different, the purpose of it
is different, and it can helpyou find what you would need on
the internet a lot moreeffectively.
But yeah, again, I think Bardis or, I'm sorry, I think chat
GPT is so impactful.
You know what I mean.
Denison (28:52):
Yeah, I'm right there with you.
John (28:56):
Yeah, yeah.
So I hate to see this going onwith this drama.
It seems very unsettled.
I think I would like to seechat GPT if they're again.
This is us assuming that thereis some subtle push for
Microsoft to take it over.
I would like to see OpenAI stayits own course with the
(29:22):
leadership it's had, andcontinue to develop and benefit
everyone, not just Microsoft,right.
Denison (29:31):
Yeah, exactly, I'm with you.
One other thing I wanted tonote too, just to kind of also
give a little bit more scale ofwhy this is such a big deal of
Altman Sam Altman not being inOpenAI is that the other
(29:53):
co-founder or another one of theco-founders of OpenAI also left
.
John (30:01):
You got pushed out Same thing.
Denison (30:04):
Well, he didn't get pushed out.
He quit Insolidarity for Altmanbecause he was apparently from
what was.
There were some leakeddocuments, but apparently it
seemed to be a very, a very just, quick experience, like there
(30:33):
wasn't.
It didn't sound like he had alot of information at first,
like, while it sounded likeessentially like they told him,
hey, come into this meeting and,boom, you know, you're fine,
essentially so it wasn't therewas.
So I think that was the otherreason why Greg was it Bachman
(31:00):
left.
Yes, I think that's anotherreason why he left is because he
didn't really enjoy that typeof an ousting, because that's
just kind of bizarre and alittle crazy.
John (31:16):
Yeah, yeah, well, and you know what too?
Now, granted, we don't knowthese people and with the tech,
we only know what happens on ourend of things, right.
So I can't fully say thesepeople are good people, because
we don't know.
(31:36):
But what I would say is it doesseem like they're genuinely
passionate about what they weredoing, right, mm-hmm, and to the
point where they didn't wantanything to be impacted with
(31:56):
their work.
You know, yeah, and so I thinkthat that is kind of one of the
biggest things that you've seenwith this.
The is odd that so many peoplewould be convinced to follow and
go to Microsoft because of this, right, mm-hmm.
But you know, for 700 people tobe working on this technology
(32:22):
and other related technologies,they seem, and with how consumer
friendly and beneficial it hasbeen, that to me kind of gives
the result, if you will, thatthese people are passionate and
confident and want the best tocome out from this technology.
(32:44):
That's just my opinion could becompletely wrong, because we
don't know.
You know, yeah, but that is howit appears anyway.
So this has been good.
I'm glad we jumped in on thisone.
Let's move on to that secondtopic, which is Meta's
mind-reading AI, right.
So here's the thing.
So it's an AI, brain-computerinterface technology.
(33:09):
Very interesting.
Now, this is in partnershipwith the University of Texas and
scientists that are there,which is cool.
Us having talked about Meta, itdoes kind of concern me that
they're involved.
They don't want to be involvedwith this, you know Mm-hmm, but
(33:31):
they claim to have developed asystem that can scan a human
brain and replicate the images aperson is thinking about, using
what's calledmagneto-sophilography.
It's a very big word.
Magneto-sophilography, I think,is how?
Or philography, sorry,philography.
(33:51):
Or Meg, yeah, or Meg for short.
So Meg 3, meg 3, meg 3, meg 3,meg 3, meg 3, meg 3, meg 3, meg
3, Meg.
3, Meg 3, Meg 3, Meg 3, Meg 4,Meg 3, Meg 4.
So Meg 3 will be about thistechnology and AI.
While the technology has justgained started, its potential
(34:13):
applications for those withneurological issues are immense.
But of course there's someethical and privacy concerns as
well.
Let's jump into that a littlebit more.
What would you say are thebenefits of this technology On
this as well?
Denison (34:34):
So, and for clarification, I think it's
actually, I think it's kind oflike a twofer.
The University of Texas atAustin also created, using AI,
this decoder technology, meta's,similar tech, right, yeah, yeah
.
So the University of Texas atAustin created a decoder to read
(34:59):
brainwaves and turn that intotext text that you can read
essentially.
So, essentially, you'rethinking something.
It'll say like boom, this isnow you were thinking about
purple and it wrote down purple,so, bam, purple.
It's something similar to that,right, where Meta's is more,
(35:24):
theirs is interesting becauseit's not just that it's reading
the brainwaves, but in this case, in the experiment that they
did, they were showing a person,while they were in the machine,
pictures, right, and it wasMeta's AI essentially.
(35:45):
Well, ai decoder type dealthing was able to read those
brainwaves, those liveinterpreted brainwaves, and say,
okay, this is a picture, thisis what that picture is.
So think of like Dolly andChatGPT kind of working together
(36:06):
really quickly, right, sure,because this is all happening
live.
I think that was kind of thebigger part with Meta's is that
it was a live translation.
So if someone saw a plane, itwould essentially replicate.
It would say, like well, thislooks like a plane, so plane.
And it could replicate it almostidentically without actually
(36:29):
knowing the image sets in thistraining data, right?
So that's the biggest thing,because, yeah, sure, you could
say, well, these are the set ofimages that it has the potential
to you know out of what thesebrainwaves are.
You can do that, but it didn'thave any of that.
It was just essentially on thefly, just reading it and going
(36:52):
through there.
So that's what's kind of reallyreally interesting about this
is that you have one side fromthe University of Texas at
Austin's side, which is justdecoder type.
So you have one side from theUniversity of Austin, the
University of Texas at Austin'sside, which is just decoding
brainwaves and saying and kindof essentially reading out
(37:16):
thoughts.
And then you have another sidewhich is reading out images,
which is another, a whole notherball game, right?
Sure, one also was doing it inlive time, where one was more
along the lines of studyingbrainwaves over time and saying,
cool, they're also using.
Meta was doing it live.
Sorry, was it Meta?
Yeah, meta was doing it livethe.
(37:38):
Also the interesting part about,if I'm not mistaken, the Meta's
one is that it was using theway that they had it created is
that it was essentially a neuralnetwork right, using a neural
network to copy essentiallybrainwaves right, because the
(38:00):
neural networks, the way thatthose are kind of designed, is
it's a way to try to copy orreplicate the human brain.
Sure, sure, and so it was intheir model they have it to
where it's using these neuralnetworks to be able to decipher
what actual brainwaves are doing, to essentially mimic what a
brain is doing and saying well,okay, so if I'm doing this and
(38:24):
this brain is doing this, we'resimilar-ish, so that means we're
probably thinking the samething.
And here's what we're saying.
That's kind of how Meta'sworked.
And so again, two slightly twodifferent technologies, but
they're using similar patterns,the one at University of Texas,
(38:44):
at Austin.
What's really interesting aboutthat is that they were using
chat GP, or not even chat GPT,but GPT-1, which is the base,
earliest version of the GPTmodels that we know today, which
we're at chat GPT or we're atGPT-4 now.
So it's a very big.
(39:07):
It's pretty crazy how far theywere able to get with using such
an older version, and it makesyou wonder where they can get to
if they were to say use GPT-4for the same process, yeah.
John (39:26):
Yeah, that's a good point too.
If it were more advanced, whatwould that look like?
Of course they're using justthe most basic version to kind
of build what the technologywould be like, right?
Denison (39:37):
Correct.
John (39:38):
But with that said which, I have a follow-up question to
this.
But what were the biggest goalsof UT's?
Well, really both One of thebiggest goals of their
interactions why were they usingthis?
We kind of mentioned earlierhow some of this technology
(40:04):
could be used to help people whohave mental issues, whether it
was something unfortunately theywere born with or what have you
use this interaction?
But I'd be interested to knowhow that is.
And then, of course, what othergoals are by them making this
and testing these technologies.
Denison (40:23):
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, I think what you said is true.
You know, of course, people whohave mental issues or mental
blocks or something similar tothat.
There's a potential ofessentially being able to read
someone's brain waves live andthen being able to spit that out
(40:44):
onto I don't know, atext-to-speech something and
then essentially, that personcan speak through their thoughts
or speak outside or whateverlike that.
Give them ability to speakagain without having to actually
like I don't know, help withoutsome of the other stuff.
(41:06):
So there's that possibility.
But I think one of the biggestthings for both of these is just
a better way to understand howthe brain works.
I think that is probably one ofthe biggest points of this type
of research is to betterunderstand how the brain works,
because if we understand that,we can create not just a way of
(41:32):
I don't know telepathy.
I don't think we'll ever get tothat point, because both of
these methods were passive,essentially right.
So there weren't ones where youhad an electrode stick directly
into your brain and saying, allright, now we've got it.
These were taking scans, right.
(41:53):
Someone was in an MRI machine orsomething similar to that, and
then another person was well,another one.
It was a past MRI machine andthey were grabbing the
information and then feeding itin that way.
So it's a little bit different,but I could see it being a big
(42:15):
help in research of how wecommunicate and how our thoughts
are created and all sorts ofother stuff like that, and also
maybe even creating ways to, ifthere are mental illness blocks,
to see how those brains compareand see if maybe it's something
wrong with these networks andmaybe try to figure out what can
(42:41):
be fixed and how you can kindof go around that right Sure
Creating, like I was talkingabout with Metas, since they
created kind of like a mimic orsemi-brain or whatever like that
neural network brain.
There's a higher probability ofbeing able to use this
(43:03):
information to create morerealistic versions of brains
essentially virtual brains thatAIs can utilize and be able to
develop a lot faster too.
So there's a lot of really coolstuff that can come out of this
research.
John (43:22):
With that now, and I definitely get where you're
coming from too.
You know I will say I want toknow if you agree with me on
this, with UT being a part ofthis and using this technology.
I could see how that would,because, before I say what I'm
about to say, the averageknowledge of the human brain is
(43:50):
so small compared to what weunderstand the human brain being
capable of doing right.
There's so many different thingsthat even people don't know I'm
saying scientists as to whatfunctions the brain to act this
(44:10):
way, right, and those type ofthings, and so I could see how
integration at a place like UTwould benefit that knowledge,
which would lead to treatmentoptions or just scientific
understanding, and how we couldgrow our own brain and that kind
(44:33):
of thing, right.
Whereas with Metta I'm not ahater, I know we're live
streaming on Facebook right now,but with that it does concern
me that Metta, a company that isbased on consumership, is
(44:56):
trying to learn more about thebrain, right, and they have an
artificial world that you canput your headphones on and
interact with, but then youwatch a movie like Ready Player
One, right, and then Metta isstudying the brain.
They're trying to build that AIacross the board.
(45:20):
It really just I hate to kindof jump on a ledge, but I do
want to know what your thoughtsare.
What I mean is I hate to kindof be bold with this opinion,
this level of bold, but it doesseem like it could be an effort
(45:41):
on their end to expand their AItechnology to where it's fully
integrating you know what I mean.
Denison (45:50):
Yeah yeah, I think that that is a possibility.
I also wouldn't be surprised toif I mean sorry, oh, I also
wouldn't be too surprised if andmaybe this is a longer term
(46:15):
thing, but Just thinking aboutthe, thinking about being able
to use this brain activity to,as well as the Personalized or
not personalized, but the star,fake, star influence or things
(46:40):
that they're creating, which areAIs, right, utilizing both of
these together, I could easilysee something as a way to again
like we talked about that, thatprevious episode, which was a
way to create A more fullversion of what a person is
(47:03):
right, of what this customer is,and so being able to sell who
that person is to an advertiserbecomes insanely lucrative.
So, sure, and on the high endspectrum, I could easily see
something similar to thathappening Now.
Do I think that's a little farfetch?
Yes, but I can.
(47:25):
I can easily see that I canconnect the dots to say that
maybe a possibility of whattheir end goal could be.
Right, sure, because Neta orMeta has never really been a
great company when it came toour privacy.
Right, you know, they're notafraid to sell our data at all.
John (47:51):
They're not.
They're not, and that goes backto something we've talked about
multiple times Tiktok became aproblem for the government
because it's from China, butequally privacy invading is meta
Yep, if not even more so.
So that's an interesting takethat you have on that.
(48:13):
Again, meta, please let us dowell with this live stream.
We want to thank you foreverything you do.
Denison (48:19):
Yeah, please don't suppress us.
John (48:23):
But with that said too, I want to know your thoughts on
what you were mentioning If theybegan to use this like chat GPT
for right, for example, themost, the most consumer advanced
available version of chat GPTand by they I'm mainly meaning
(48:46):
University of Texas, universityof Texas, you know but with
those with the research and withthe investment in that, what
would be the goal of using themore advanced chat GPT In a
situation like this?
What do you think their goal isfor that?
Denison (49:07):
Um, I think, in this kind of scenario, I think I
think if you could get it towhere you have these, you know
this higher version of chat GPTbeing able to interpret, not
just because we already know howgood Chat GPT is in general
just analyzing texts, right,when we feed in prompts of our
(49:31):
own that we create, as well asprompts of articles and stuff
like that.
Now, again, I have to alwaysiterate this that chat GPT is a
chat GPT.
I iterate this that chat GPT isa transformer model of AI and
(49:55):
what that does is the biggestthing about it is that its core
functionality is akin toGuessing Right, guessing what
you're, what the next word orsequence of words needs to be to
form whatever, right, mm.
(50:17):
Hmm, that's true, that's thebiggest thing.
And, in short, some ways youcould say that that's kind of
what we already are doing, butit's a lot more nuanced than
that.
Um, but that is what it isbeing used or that is what it's
doing.
So, going back to what I wastrying to say is, I could see it
(50:38):
as as the University of Austin,austin, being able to one be
able to, at a much higher degree, decode someone's brain waves
into, you know full text thatmakes sense.
But not just that, but alsoimages as well, being able to
(50:58):
ingest those images, thatsomeone is looking at, these
brain waves and saying, ok,maybe this isn't a word per se,
but this is an image.
And so now let's add morecontext to what an image would
look like.
And again, these are thingsthat can be used for medical.
They can be used for otheradvancements when it comes to
(51:22):
you know, I don't know AR.
How AR works, interacts with ourbrain.
It can do a lot of stuff.
I could even see it as a way ofdiagnosing people with certain
brain disorders or somethingsimilar to that.
I guess I should really saylike mental illnesses and stuff
like that, without actuallyhaving to I don't know go
(51:45):
through so many tests orwhatever like that.
So there's the possibilities inthis.
I think, really, they're goingto push it to a lot of these
technologies, to as much as tothe highest degree, to get a
better idea of what they want todo.
John (51:58):
Well, I agree, and I hear what you're saying too, because
One thing that I do think wouldbe beneficial is using a more
advanced you know again chat GPTfor, for example.
I think would be beneficial in away of not like the movie
(52:18):
upgrade or have you where an AIis trying to converse with you
and your brain and take it over,but rather using the foundation
to analyze just how the brainworks, because, again, there's
so much unknown.
If I'm not mistaken, we reallyonly understand 10 to 15% of how
(52:43):
our brain functions.
You know, it might be a littlemore than that, but I do
remember there's a largepercentage that isn't known, you
know, isn't fully understood.
And so being able to analyzethat and understand, just for
health purposes, right?
(53:03):
Yep, yeah, I think that's agood point.
Actually, you know what?
Let me look that up real quick.
What is?
Let me ask chat GPT for why not?
Yeah, might as well.
(53:26):
What is the percentage of ourbrain's function that we
understand.
It's kind of a weird way tophrase that.
We'll see what it says.
Yeah, we'll see how it does.
The exact percentage of ourbrain's function that we
understand is subject of debateand ongoing research in the
(53:47):
field of neuroscience.
I was right, dude.
Traditionally, it's been saidthat humans use only a small
fraction of their brain'spotential, often quoted as 10%.
However, this is a myth.
In reality, we see virtuallyevery part of our brain.
Denison (54:04):
Right.
John (54:06):
And most of the brain is active all the time, for sure.
Yeah, so modern neurosciencehas shown that the brain is
highly complex andinterconnected organ, with each
part having a specific function.
Functional magnetic resonanceimaging and other brain scanning
technologies have allowedscientists to observe brain
activity and have shown thateven simple tasks require the
(54:27):
coordination of multiple areasof the brain.
However, understanding how thebrain functions in its entirety
is still a significant challenge.
Estimates of how much weunderstand about the brain very
widely, very widely, v-a-r-y.
There are many, and it'sdifficult to quantify this
(54:49):
understanding in a precisepercentage.
There are many aspects of brainfunctions, such as the exact
mechanisms of consciousness,memory and the intricate
workings of neurotransmitters,are not fully understood.
So I think the latter,especially, would be where the
research funnels the most right.
Yeah.
(55:10):
So, yeah, I think that's goodinformation.
Denison (55:13):
Yeah, I think so.
Imagine with me that in the farfuture or maybe not know, not
to distant future, we're able touse this technology you know,
when it's matured to an X, to ahigh amount, to be able to
(55:34):
remember our dreams.
Wouldn't that be kind of neat,right?
You put like a headset on yourhead and you sleep and then you
wake up and then you get like aplayback of your dream.
That'd be weird, it would be.
It'd be pretty neat, though Imean, you know, if you're into
that.
John (55:57):
I don't like living that way, bro.
I'm not against dreaming, butreliving dreams kind of freaks
me out.
Denison (56:04):
You just get to see it.
It'd be like a YouTube video,yeah that's true, like a YouTube
video of your brain or of yourdream stream live on YouTube
with that for sure.
John (56:16):
No, I'm not against dreams or anything like that.
I just think the idea ofrewatching it would kind of be
weird to me.
But I'm not against that fight.
Totally get what you're saying,brooke.
Also thank you for jumping inthe comments.
We love you being on the streamwith us and thank you as well.
But yeah, so that's a.
(56:37):
That's an interesting one, butthat gives, I think, a lot of
good information on this.
And honestly, man, I say weslam into this last one real
quick.
What do you think?
Of course, of course.
Denison (56:50):
Yeah, we can run through this one.
This one's a little bit quickerI can, I can take it away on
this one.
John (56:57):
Yeah.
Denison (56:58):
So so Apple right in a move that shocked everyone,
apple is going to open up RCS,which is rich.
What does it stand for?
It says rich, rich somethingtext or something similar to
that.
It's essentially a much moreencrypted version of a regular
(57:24):
standard text message Mostphones, most Android phones,
have moved over to richcommunication services.
John (57:36):
That's what I'm seeing.
Denison (57:37):
I knew it was rich something.
There it is, God I'm buying aniPhone.
Yeah, but it so beforehand,right, let me set the scene here
right In the United States,because I have to preface it by
in the United States, becausethis is completely different
(58:01):
around the world.
Sure, sure, sure In the UnitedStates.
Someone in the United Statesmajority of people will use who,
if they have a iPhone, they usethe default Not even just an
iPhone is really, in general,most phones they're going to use
the default messaging app thatis on their phone.
(58:22):
So for iPhone users, that's Imessage, which most iPhone users
don't understand.
That technically, the way thatI message is it's just a
glorified web client, becauseessentially, all of your texts
and all that other good stuff isup in the cloud and then it's
(58:44):
just reading that data off of aserver.
Essentially, that's the reasonwhy you can do certain things
that are a little bit different,right, but the nice thing about
I message is that you getencrypted.
You get encrypted messaging.
You get higher quality videosand higher quality like custom
(59:12):
images and stuff like that.
Right, sure, all sent out.
And then, of course, there'sother kind of cool things that
you can do, like stickers andall sorts of other cool stuff
like that, right that you can doinside of I message.
Apple has done a great job ofbeing able to integrate that and
make it feel like somethingthat you really just can't live
(59:32):
with that.
So on the other side of thespectrum, oh, and I guess I
should also preface it by sayingwhenever you are texting
another iPhone user who is alsousing I message, they will send
off a blue bubble.
Right, you get a blue bubble,that's this whole.
(59:54):
And then, of course, when youare not a user and you are
texting someone who is using anAndroid phone, that text message
becomes a SMS, which is just aregular old, plain old text text
green text yes, you then, andthe other person because you yes
(01:00:17):
, yes, you get a green bubble.
Exactly yes, you must shame themfor having a green bubble
because it yes, it messes withall of your fun Apple stuff.
John (01:00:28):
This is why I only talk on the phone.
Denison (01:00:35):
But anyway, so most of so.
Moving over to the Android side, or the Android side right, for
years they have been using justregular old SMS, which is, like
I said, your regular old,regular, regular, no encryption,
just plain text being sent overcellular data.
(01:00:59):
Well, a few years ago, googleinvested a lot of money in
creating not in creating, butco-working with another service
or whatever like that to createRCS, which is that rich
(01:01:20):
communication service that addsin a lot of cool functionality
that a lot of the iPhone usersare getting in their iMessage,
so that is higher quality video,higher quality photos,
encrypted messages, as well asthose typing indicators, which
are cool, a couple of otherthings that kids sent through
(01:01:44):
and that kind of work a littlebit better.
They started to implement thatinto most of their Android
phones and Google has beenpushing for years at this point
to try to get Apple to just addthat standard in, because what
that will do is now you havethis ability for both iPhone and
(01:02:09):
Android users to be able tosend encrypted messages, to have
those typing indicators, as youcan normally get, also those
red received kind of deals thatyou normally get to on iMessage
and stuff like that, as well asRCS.
Whenever you're talking withsomeone else who also has RCS,
(01:02:31):
you get an opportunity to beable to send better videos, all
sorts of other stuff.
Google has been hounding Appleto truly push this as much as
possible, because it's a betterexperience, not just for their
users, but for all users, right?
Sure, no more green bubbleversus blue bubble, which is
(01:02:53):
interesting, yeah.
So Apple announced a few daysago that they are opening this
up or they are going to add RCSto iMessage in 2024.
So then that way, everybodygets the blue bubble goodness.
(01:03:15):
But it's probably not going tobe true.
Honestly, they're probablyeither going to keep it green
just because they want to again,it's another thing that Apple
can use to keep people in theirworld garden, but maybe it'll
stay green or maybe it'll changeto a different color.
(01:03:37):
But big thing about it is justthat we are now moving on to a
better standard, and it shouldmake messaging people a lot
better.
Again, this is a United Statesproblem, because in other
countries they actually use mostcountries use like WhatsApp to
(01:04:00):
communicate.
John (01:04:01):
Right, which is weird, but that's a whole other
conversation.
Denison (01:04:05):
It's only weird to us.
For them they're just like well, why would I use the default
messaging client?
I can use WhatsApp, whichcommunicates perfectly, which is
really good communicationacross the board, right?
You don't have any weirdincompatibility issues and it's
encrypted, and you get highresolution photos and you get
(01:04:26):
breed right Receipts.
You get all the cool stuff.
John (01:04:30):
Yeah, well, I get that sympathy on that for sure.
I just feel like it gets weirdwith how well at least the way
they promote it to us is howhidden they are all the messages
can be.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, for like how WhatsApp canbe, or at least it was.
(01:04:52):
I know that I don't know ifit's quite to that level now,
but you could message peoplewithout sharing who.
You are right.
Denison (01:05:03):
No, I mean you have to have a phone number and all
sorts of other stuff like that.
There may be certain parts ofit, but I mean, whatsapp was
supposed to always be a.
One of the biggest thingsthat's nice about it is that
it's great for internationaltravel because it doesn't
require that cellular service.
(01:05:24):
It just requires like a file orsomething similar to that.
John (01:05:28):
Okay, well, you know, try and think of what I what.
I don't know if it was an earlyversion of that or if I'm just
misremembering that I very muchcould be.
Oh, you know what I bet it'sTelegram.
Denison (01:05:45):
Yeah, that might have been what you were thinking of.
John (01:05:47):
Yeah, I think so, and Telegram was trying to present
itself as a competitor toWhatsApp, so that's probably
what I thought of that.
But yeah, so regardless of thatand all that stuff, I do think
it's interesting because thisintegration right would be just
for Google, like Google Pixelkind of phones, for example.
Denison (01:06:12):
No, no, at this point, most Android manufacturers have
added the Google messagingapplication, which is one of the
big ones that is pushing theRCS.
But most Android phonesnowadays are actually pushing
(01:06:34):
that, that messaging client, soit doesn't just benefit them.
I know, like Samsung, they'vemade that their default
messaging app.
I believe you know.
Of course Google has.
I believe some of the othermanufacturers Android
manufacturers have as well, soit's not all that surprising.
John (01:07:00):
You have a frozen Denison.
Denison (01:07:05):
Yeah, we do Give me one more.
I'll be back there it is.
I should be back now.
Yep, yep, yep, yep, you areback and we got the audio.
John (01:07:17):
Yeah, I guess.
Denison (01:07:18):
Yeah, I got some weird stuff going on, but anyway, yeah
, most Android phones now havemoved over to a messenger that
has RCS on it.
John (01:07:35):
Okay, well, I think that's interesting, and I will say too
, as someone who, within thelast few days, upgraded my
laptop to Windows 11.
Again, this is my personallaptop and I found that
(01:07:58):
Microsoft has an app calledPhone Link, where you can link
to your Android or you can linkyour iPhone.
Yep, I do, I'm a better.
I will admit this, you know, issituational, but I am a better
text messenger a lot of times asfar as typing it out on a
keyboard rather than hold myphone and go like this right,
(01:08:22):
I'm just more of a consistentreplyer through that.
With that said, if I open theapp right now, it won't show any
of my messages.
In fact, it gives me a randomlist of suggested contacts.
Denison (01:08:38):
Strange.
John (01:08:39):
Yeah, yeah.
So, with that said, if I wereto create new message and the
message you I mean, I could pickright up where we had left off
last, not a problem, but won'tshow me anything until you reply
, and only then does it startbuilding a thread, right?
But that only lasts until Ireset the computer or shut the
(01:09:05):
app off, right, and then youhave to start from square one
again.
So I have a dozen on red textmessages right now.
I apologize.
I apologize to all involved, butit won't show me any of them on
that app.
So I do wonder.
I hope for them that that meansthey'll integrate with other
(01:09:28):
apps like that.
Obviously that one's more selfserving me, but I just wonder
how big of a growth we would seefrom this technology being
integrated and how much it wouldintegrate with other stuff.
Denison (01:09:43):
Yeah, I mean I think it'll be interesting as well as
strange that you're getting that.
I honestly have not had thatissue with me doing it on my
computer, because I've done it acouple of times have you.
I have.
It's a phone link app.
It works great yeah.
John (01:10:05):
You do it with your Android phone, right?
Correct?
Yeah, yeah, it's all right, butI do imagine that that is
completely different, you know?
I mean because even I'll giveyou this example right now, it
doesn't show those messagesunless I just started typing one
(01:10:26):
, and it says your recentmessages will appear here.
This is from messages,obviously, and it gives me every
other notification on the sidetoo that I could just look at
but not interact with Mm-hmm.
And then if I went from whichbeing like, you know, like
Facebook, youtube, upwork, allthat kind of stuff, but then if
I hit calls, it says we cannotconnect your device.
(01:10:50):
Please reset phone link, whichwould just remove my device and
I'd have to reconnect it, whichis interesting.
Yeah, and it's not factualbecause it reconnects every time
I shut and turn the app back on, so it's just not it's not the
best integration.
(01:11:10):
It does make me wonder if thatkind of stuff will improve for
people as well.
Denison (01:11:15):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, yeah, hopefully it does,hopefully it does.
Yeah, because, yeah, that'ssort of strange it is.
John (01:11:24):
I'm glad it's free, but at least it's free coming with
Windows 11.
But if I remember right too,that app was already available
on Windows 10, if I rememberright.
Correct.
Denison (01:11:41):
Correct, but I'm currently using it on Windows 10
.
John (01:11:44):
Gotcha.
Denison (01:11:45):
Okay.
John (01:11:46):
Yeah, but it wouldn't connect iPhone unless it was the
Windows 11 version, correct?
So all these people are movingthis technology more integrated
with iPhone, even just as simpleas something.
We talked a little while backabout the new iPhones charged
with USB C's.
Now, right, I think this is anational and an international
(01:12:11):
level to make it more like theother phones as far as those
things that block it from beingused by other technology, right.
Denison (01:12:21):
Yes, and I do want to also say this is that Apple
didn't do this on purpose.
They didn't.
If it was up to Apple, theywouldn't have done this.
They were forced to do this byan EU regulation that
(01:12:42):
essentially a EU bill orwhatever like that that passed
that requires this essentiallything, and so USB C right.
Yes, usb C and RCS.
John (01:12:56):
Oh, okay, I didn't know it was a ladder as well.
Denison (01:12:58):
Yes, Exactly, Exactly.
Apple is not someone tointegrate any of this.
Again, a lot of this stuff isto make it easier for all users
to be able to communicate ondevices and stuff like that, not
just for one manufacturer tohave a monopoly on certain
(01:13:20):
things.
So that is something that Iwanted to pop out there, because
I think some people would readit and say like, oh man, Apple
is really doing a good job, butit's more of a regulation thing
that they're being forced to dothis.
John (01:13:41):
Sure, that's interesting and it's wild.
It took this long for it tostart transpiring.
But as someone who was always,has always has been Team iPhone,
I'm not in the way of, yeah,make it your own thing and
everybody else has to adjustaccordingly.
(01:14:02):
No, make it integrate withstuff like that, just like all
other related technology does.
I completely agree.
So well, look, we touched on alot.
It is a late night.
I think we covered a lot and itwas great, and thank you, guys
for jumping on the live streamas well.
Thank you for watching with us,thank you for having the
(01:14:24):
comments as well.
This is what we do every singleweek and, of course, this one.
We knocked out early, but alsowent late because it is staying
in week.
And I just want to say too eventhough the audio version of
this goes live on, technically,cyber Monday, if you, if you're
looking for something to buy onCyber Monday, hit the link.
(01:14:46):
We got some really cool merchthat you can check out.
We sure think you're going tolove it.
So, with that said, though,just real quick, man.
What would you say that you'rethankful for?
What's the one thing you wouldmention?
Denison (01:15:05):
I think just you know family and friends.
Honestly, I think that isprobably one of the biggest
things I felt more this yearthat I've been really thankful
for.
John (01:15:19):
Yeah, well, it's interesting because, for those
who don't know us personally,it's not presses like those that
make us literally the sameperson, just brothers.
You know what I mean, because Ihave the exact same feeling and
very thankful for those whosurround us and care for us
(01:15:42):
genuinely.
But not just that.
I'm very thankful for you, bro,because you are among the
pinnacle of that, and very, verythankful.
Denison (01:15:52):
So oh, thank you, bro.
I'm incredibly thankful for you.
Man Like, yeah, this year'sbeen crazy and you know, I don't
know what I would do with that.
John (01:16:05):
Well, thank you, and the feeling is absolutely mutual,
and with all of that, too, we'rethankful for all of you
listeners and watchers as well.
Thank you for being a part ofthis podcast in some capacity
all the time, and thank you forjumping on, whether it's a live
stream or whether it's the audio.
We really, really appreciate it, and just to be able to do this
(01:16:27):
and grow this and have fundoing it, that it's an awesome
blessing.
So, thank you guys.
Yeah, exactly.
Denison (01:16:34):
Yeah, thank you.
For what?
Four years of support.
Five, five years.
Sorry, I'm off, I'm off.
Yeah, five years of support.
You know, it's been a longjourney, it's been great and
it's super fun.
We're continuously, you know,trying to innovate and you know,
(01:16:58):
thank you for being along forthe ride.
And, yes, right.
John (01:17:02):
And I think to continue this.
Yeah, absolutely, and we will,and I think we have some really
exciting things that are aroundthe corner with that as well,
which, of course, once theystart developing, we'll be sure
to talk more and more about.
So yeah, thank you guys.
So much for listening, thankyou for watching.
(01:17:24):
Have a happy Thanksgiving, ifyou're listening on the audio.
Have a happy weekend ofshopping, and we'll catch up
with you guys next week.
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