November 8, 2023 • 71 mins
Do you ever wonder what the intersection of biotech and geopolitics looks like? This episode ventures into the realm of genetic testing and the geopolitical implications of a lab gifted by China to Serbia. FireEye, a state-of-the-art lab, stands at the precipice of pushing the boundaries of what we know about viruses and human genomes. As this technology extends its reach across four continents, the consequences could be monumental, ranging from bio weapons, mass surveillance, to harvesting global genetic data. Strap yourselves in for this fascinating discussion on the possible repercussions of this development.
As we navigate the profound complexities of biotechnology, we shed light on the ethical dilemmas arising from the analysis of genetic data. The rapid progress in biotechnology, accelerated by the COVID-19 pandemic, has flung open a Pandora's box of potential misuses and global geopolitical impact. We also venture into the realm of a potential hierarchical society where the affluent gain ascendance through genetic modifications.
Switching lanes, we steer towards the world of electric vehicles, specifically into the impact of supercharging on EV batteries. We'll tread into the territory of battery degradation, advancements in technology to maximize battery life, and the different types of EV chargers. With the looming presence of giant oil companies like ExxonMobil and their potential push for alternative fuels, we dissect the trials and triumphs waiting in the future of EVs. So tune in, as we discourse on the electrifying journey of the future of mobility.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now I want to jump into this right off the top.
This is not going to be whatthe whole episode is about.
If you didn't come here forthis, please stick around,
because I think you will likethe second half of this episode.
This was a big, big story today.
Basically, we're talking abouta development in the world of
biotech and geopolitics thecrazy thing about this story,
(00:24):
and also.
Before I keep going, man, letme just remind myself to do the
main thing I gotta do.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, man, you gotta share it.
You gotta share it.
Get it to those people'seyeballs so everybody can check
it out.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Something finna hit their eyeballs.
Man, it's gotta be this, ohyeah.
Oh yeah, I don't know what I'msaying, man, excuse me.
Thank you guys for tuning intonight.
You guys are rad, all right,let's get this thing shared, all
right, double shared, all right.
So here's the crazy thing thistoday I want to attribute this
(01:03):
properly this report comes outfrom Washington Post.
What the crazy thing about itis to me is it low key in a
certain way.
I didn't just say low keybecause Dennis and I spent 20
minutes talking about Marvel.
In certain ways, it affirmssome conspiracy theories when
(01:26):
the pandemic was just taken off.
Okay, so let's hear some quickdetails on this.
In April 2020, china giftedSerbia a cutting edge lab called
FireEye, which has thecapability of genetic testing,
not just for viruses, it turnsout, though that's what it was
sold as but also it is for humangenomes as well.
(01:50):
These labs have proliferatedglobally, reaching four
continents in more than 20countries, including Canada,
latvia, saudi Arabia, ethiopia,south Africa and Australia.
It's interesting becausethere's a lot of it in Africa.
I don't know why that is orwhat they're trying to gain out
(02:12):
of it.
When you read on, it certainlyfeels like they're trying to
gain out of it.
I wouldn't say anythingdifferent for a first world
country.
Necessarily, when you're talkingabout China.
It does make you wonder whatthey're trying to gain from this
.
What's the concern?
Let's find out, friends.
Human DNA database, fireeyelabs could potentially
(02:34):
contribute to a massivecollection of global genetic
data.
Chinese officials have framedthese efforts as beneficial for
public health and scientificresearch, but Western analysts
worry about other applications,such as bio weapons or mass
surveillance.
There's a world arrangement ofrules of what can and cannot be
(03:03):
used in war, which is very weird, right?
What is what it is?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, it's a sort of the Geneva Convention.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yes, exactly that would prevent bio weapons Mass
surveillance.
I think of I've said this a fewtimes over the course of this
show Minority Report.
There's a scene where TomCruise's character walks into
this mall and scans his eye andknows who he is, what he's
(03:31):
interested in and does customadvertisements as he walks into
the mall.
Stuff like that, right.
That's not the report.
Another concern is economicleverage.
Genetic information is oftendubbed the new gold in
scientific circles.
China has its ISM becoming theworld leader in biotechnology by
(03:53):
2035.
If it succeeds, it could holdimmense economic and strategic
power over its global rivals,particularly the United States.
So let's dive into that one alittle further.
What does that mean to you, man?
I was trying to decipher thatone too.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, that's a hard one.
I guess my thought process onit is that it can be that there
is just overall, more likethey're ahead when it comes to.
I think it's something akin toone of the similar to one of the
(04:40):
AI gosh darn.
One of the more recent AImodels was able to map all the
proteins known to manessentially right Like get a
full genetic structure of all ofthose proteins.
So I think it would besomething similar to like.
If you have that type of data,you can now use that data to
(05:08):
better create different types ofgosh darn treatments, medicines
, all that stuff right and so,or go ahead.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
No, dude, you had opened up exactly where my mind
was going.
Man, I'm thinking the exactsame thing.
It makes it I mean, it justfeeds right into that major
conspiracy theory they're usingthis to intentionally perhaps or
maybe not, but they couldintentionally trigger another
(05:46):
pandemic that would take outnon-Chinese people.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, you could have it.
Yeah, because technically right, in theory.
I guess that's the biggestthing that we really need to say
is that this is a theory, ofcourse, but in theory there is a
possibility of you have enoughdiverse genetic material and
(06:12):
then you can say, okay, so thistype of racial group, right.
Or in truth, I should reallysay this type of person from
this ethnic background, becausein truth, race is more of a
(06:33):
political construct rather thanan actual, like factorial one
but you could say, someone fromthis ethnic background has this
type of genetic sequence, likeall of them share this type of
genetic sequence, and then Iguess, technically, you could
modify a virus or somethingsimilar to that to only target
(07:01):
this group of people.
Now, of course, there's goingto be outliers, just like
they're always in any sort ofstudy, but yes, you could
technically target it that way.
Now you can also do this theinverse way, right?
You can create a vaccine thatonly that works perfectly, right
?
This is at the peak of thisright.
(07:22):
You could essentially create avaccine or cure for essentially
any type of disease that wouldaffect this one single person,
because you have enough geneticinformation to understand what
will and won't work really wellwith their genetic makeup, and
(07:44):
then you'd be able to go fromthere, so you can do the same
thing.
You can do something reallygreat with it, or you can do
something really bad with it.
That's kind of where that leadsinto right.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Well, that's a really great point, man, but still, it
would be self-serving man,because if another world
pandemic happens, whether it'sbecause of them or just
happenstance, they have nowplaced themselves, through
manipulative behavior, to be atthe top of the market for it.
But you're right, I think wenailed it on the head and, man,
(08:20):
I'm only halfway through whatwe're going to talk about on
this.
It's just crazy People who werefirst labeled as conspiracy
theorists are now beingvalidated.
man by major publication in theWashington Post.
I will say I never fullydoubted the idea that China was
benefiting on this Shoot man.
(08:44):
There might be ways there arenot being reported about how
America benefited on this.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And I do want to state that it's like a partial
validation right.
Because it's not a fullverification or anything like
that.
We're not admitting that any ofthese conspiracy theories are
fully true or anything like that.
It's just there is a higheramount of evidence that the
(09:19):
Chinese government or theChinese Communist Party, or I
guess I should really just saythe Chinese government, may have
been using this institution tobe able to collect multiple sets
of data or DNA data to use forvarious research purposes.
(09:41):
That is the facts that we havecurrently.
Right, we can infer from whathas been used in some of the
other data that we know about,or there's some of the other
facts to have a little bit moreto be able to get to the
(10:03):
conclusions that we are at.
But I just wanted to say thatjust as a disclaimer.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
With that, dalla, I mean, you're absolutely right on
that.
I do think that if you add upeverything, given this situation
at the start of COVID-19, rightbefore it came a pandemic here
in America, which was one of thelast final places right after
(10:34):
that they start rolling thismachine out Without everything
else, you'd be like man, itcould just be coincidental
timing.
It sounds like that would takesomething that takes a lot of
prep to get ready.
But man, it's just so weird howit was also beneficial in
(10:56):
helping to find the cure toCOVID-19.
It's a temporary cure, right,it's like flu vaccine.
I find it interesting, bro, I'mnot trying to lay claim
necessarily, but this againofficial article from the
(11:16):
Washington Post, not biased isleaning their direction a little
bit, don't you think?
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, I mean, I think they may be.
I think that the article doeshave some sort of lean towards.
It could be something that theywere, there are other
collecting data for, or they usethe moment of COVID to collect
(11:48):
data to better create somethingthat could be something like a
biological weapon or somethingsimilar to that.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
But I don't know.
Honestly, it's hard for me tofully say.
One thing that I will say too,going into what you were saying,
is that it is interesting tonote that, of course, I'm sure
this organization also helped inthe efforts to be able to
(12:27):
create a vaccine in a recordtime fastest time that we've
ever been able to create avaccine for a disease like this.
Absolutely I do think that itdid help in that regard, but I
do think there is something tothe fact that when COVID
(12:51):
happened, they jumped out andautomatically started collecting
this type of information thatcould be incredibly useful for,
say, another trial in some ways,right.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
And I'm using that mRNA technology for this vaccine
and mRNA people got and stillare obviously nerve wracked.
Oh, they have this newtechnology.
They're trying to control us.
Mrna had actually been workedon and built a foundation out of
(13:31):
for cancer vaccines as well aspaid for, and what's great about
mRNA vaccine in general is ithas this adaptive foundation
that you can alter to treat this, that, this, that.
So the goal is to speed up thetimes of critical vaccines,
(13:55):
which just happened to be aworldwide blessing that they had
already started working on thatbefore COVID hit.
So, moving on with the issueshere, data security and privacy
Critics point out that theChinese company BGI, which
(14:15):
manufactures FireEye Labs whichwas the name of this machine, or
who built this machine has deepties to the Chinese government,
raising questions about whoultimately has access to the
sensitive genetic information.
In ethical concerns, some USofficials argue that BGI and its
subsidiaries have been involvedin analyzing genetic material
(14:37):
for the Chinese government'scrackdown on ethnic and
religious minorities, althoughBGI denies these allegations.
Another thing that I readthat's not included in this
rundown is that they alsoreceived I'll go back and verify
this, but they also receivedgenetic material from the US.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Interesting yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Let me double check this real quick.
Okay, that's what it was.
Vgi acquired the patents to theAmerican firm's DNA sequence
machines and began making andselling the equipment through a
spin-off company.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
I see Interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, so, but oh, this is what I found out.
Okay, this is a critical pieceof information.
Okay, by 2019, their businesspartnerships and stock purchases
, nearly two dozen Chinesecompanies had acquired the
rights to genetic data and otherprivate records of US patients.
(15:52):
According to a 2019 reportprepared by the US government US
China Economic and SecurityReview Commission.
During the same period, us lawenforcement officials were
tracking hacking attemptsinvolving companies with large
troves of genetic data.
Justice Department and Dijkman2019 accused Chinese operatives
(16:13):
of illegally accessing patientdatabases at four US companies.
The hackers are believed tohave siphoned the private
healthcare data, including DNAinformation, of more than 80
million Americans.
According to prosecutors manthat's crazy.
Yes, so that went on before thismachine started rolling out, so
(16:34):
it sets a bad tone.
You know what I'm saying?
It's all going down at the sametime.
Bgi, the parent company of thistech, is rolling out, with
America trying to get more DNAtech.
Right yeah?
Now let me be clear.
We view this as like the mostsynthetic way to tell people
(16:58):
apart.
Right, yeah, but really, thattechnology is needed for the
future of making a world that iscancer-free, virus-free,
pandemic-free.
It is critical, I hate to sayit.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah it is, it is yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
But there's a good side to this, hopefully.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, exactly, it's just like the AI tools that
we've talked about many timesduring our podcast, which is
they can be used for amazing,wonderful, great things, and
then they can also be used forvery terrible things, and it's
(17:45):
just one of those things thatyou have to hope that it's used
properly.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I mean that's the role of a newtechnology, right?
Although, again, the differencewith this is the rollout of
this technology at the time thatit happened and taking
advantage of desperation whenneeded materials or in need for
(18:17):
materials and just resources forthe pandemic, right, so we'll
move on with this.
It says the role of that.
Here's the role the pandemicplayed.
Covid-19 served as anunexpected catalyst unexpected,
just to be clear.
So even Washington Post issaying it was not intentional to
be the catalyst for thismachine.
Okay, it was not intentionalfor this global genetic data
(18:40):
collection effort.
The pandemic opened doors forChinese companies to deploy
their technologies worldwideunder the guise of public health
, which is allowed for anexpansion, and collecting
genetic data.
So they did use it, accordingto this report, in a
manipulative way, but theydidn't push forward the pandemic
(19:01):
to make it work.
So that's a critical piece.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
That is a really good for the context of it.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
It is.
While the advancements inbiotechnology offer promising
avenues for healthcare andscientific research, they also
present challenges and ethicaldilemmas that cannot be ignored.
As China aggressively pushesits biotechnological
capabilities, it's crucial toconsider not just benefits, but
also the potential for misuseand the impact on global
geopolitics.
Sorry, so here's what I thinkabout this.
(19:37):
I do believe that we did touchon what the concern would be
about this.
There's this movie and ifyou're in the comments, let me
know if you remember what it wascalled.
I'm going to do a quick Googlesearch let's see if I can find
(20:01):
it.
Let me know in the comments ifyou've seen the movie Gadica.
Have you seen that, bro?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I have not.
I have not seen Gadica.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Believe it or not, man, I actually watched this
movie in one of my high schoolclasses.
I believe it was.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
What this movie is about is genetic engineering and
how you basically create aneven more separated, like
hierarchical society.
People that run it, profit offof it, live big time like sports
stars.
Their family was rich and wereable to afford genetic
(20:38):
engineering that give them theabilities to run faster, jump
higher, think quicker, whereasnormal people, who are not
necessarily dumb or lackanything, they just don't have
that genetic twist orengineering to them.
They live in poverty.
I'm sorry, it's not a blessingif they did that.
They live in poverty becausethey can't afford the experiment
(21:03):
.
So we'll get them to that nextalmost super human level, and
that is, I think, a veryrealistic approach to something
that could happen.
I say it would, but it's thoseand among the things that we
mentioned earlier that reallymakes me concerned about this
(21:24):
gathering of genetic data.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Right, yeah, same, same Because, yeah, there's just
like you know, like the articlesaid, like you said, dna is
probably going to be the nextfrontier when it comes to
overall.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Just development of human health.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yes, exactly, Human health as well, as you know, of
course, human weapons right.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah Well, how do you feel with human weapons?
Are you thinking like GI Joetype people?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I mean, yeah, technically there is, there is
that possibility.
But I was also thinking of, youknow, biological weapons.
You kid, because I mean youknow technically?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
like Mega man, yeah man.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, man, or you know you could, you could create
I don't know the Hulk orwhatever.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
I mean, yeah, I mean obviously not as something as
comic-ish as that, but you could.
You could do something to thateffect If a person's super human
strength through that geneticengineering right.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, exactly Exactly , and you know they I lost it,
but I think you know it gives anupper leg to, or upper hand,
(23:02):
sorry, gives the upper hand topeople who have, you know who
are the have nots and who aren'tthe who can't afford that
process, right, it's similar towhich I would imagine this would
come into this play, but it'sthat designer baby aspect.
Right, you can design people tobe, you know, I don't know the
(23:27):
best, right, you can make surethat they are resistant to, you
know, developing, say cancer,and resistant to developing,
like, different sorts ofdiseases, as well as you know
the regular stuff of like Idon't know, being able to run
super fast, be able to have,like I don't know, super human
(23:51):
strength and all sorts of otherstuff.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Sure, well, absolutely For a war, and that's
the thing you just can't helpbut think about with our world,
right?
It's how this benefit them.
It may not be the initialintention with some of these
people, right?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
They carve that genetic material on file right
and they look at like the Dwaynethe Rock Johnson.
They're like you know what?
What if all of our people hadthat strength with Dwayne the
Rock Johnson right?
That capability of growing thatstrength.
It just is going to help theirhuman side of military fighting.
(24:34):
You know there's some rumorsthat, like top secret
intelligence, people have thatkind of stuff manipulated in
them you know or have technologythat give them that kind of
strength.
So to be able to manipulatetheir genetics where it's
natural, that'd be insane man.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, it would be.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
One thing I do want to say about this, because you
know us if you've been here fora while we're not ones that like
to attack people based off of apolitical story, right?
One thing I will say from ourperspective, right?
Well, specifically from mine aswell.
You see the governmentattacking TikTok, right?
(25:19):
Oh man, don't like TikTok.
Steal our people's data, don'tsteal their information, right?
Meanwhile, facebook slashInstagram very much does that,
right.
But here's the differencethey're American.
You know what I'm saying and Itrust Washington Post.
I'm not putting it against them.
(25:41):
Necessarily.
For them, it may be a reasonthat they were able to collect
this data, but not for a similartype of work going on the
United States.
You know what I mean.
I mean, you got me hard tobelieve that China is the only
one that's putting this together, bro.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, yeah.
So, especially one of the linesthat we read in there they are
working to be one of the worldleaders.
One of the world leaders, right?
So guess who that other one is?
It's really us, man.
So I think this is somethingthat we should cover as time
goes on because, to consider,that's what you know going to be
(26:23):
a developing thing, anddeveloping within the next 12
years, that's a pretty big andconsiderable thing.
So, on one hand, it shouldn'tenlighten us for the future of
healthcare.
It really should.
It really should that.
I mean, for many people thatshould just be a world-relieving
(26:43):
kind of a thing.
But on the other hand, man, youjust don't know what's going to
be going on behind the scenes.
Yeah, Like.
UFOs man.
We know they're out there.
We don't know what's happening.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yeah, man, you're right, you really could be there
.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
It could be, man.
So anyway, I think we had agood discussion on this.
Let's go ahead and slap intoour next topic, man.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, man.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
I got the best way to do it.
Let's roll the intro man.
All right.
(27:38):
Now that we've tackled someheavy geopolitics right, let's
shift our focus to something alittle closer to home Electric
vehicles okay, you'd besurprised to find out that some
common assumptions about EVbatteries are not holding up
under scrutiny.
But before we run into that, Iwant to let you guys know the
(28:01):
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(28:22):
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(28:44):
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I dramatized that one.
So yeah, let's get into thisnext topic.
(30:30):
The common belief is thatsupercharging electric car
battery leads to fasterdegradation than regular
charging.
It's kind of like things welearned with my laptop, my phone
.
You want to have the properchargers on it, especially with
phones.
Man, I've encountered this withmy iPhone.
(30:52):
It's easy to find things thatdon't charge it fast enough.
That drains on the battery.
So there's a certain window formost batteries.
Maybe you can explain thatbetter, right?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, yeah, of course .
So I guess when I mean batterydegradation or what we, when we
say battery degradation, thereal big thing is is, over time,
a essentially as a lithium ioncell because this is more
specific to lithium ionbatteries they build up
(31:28):
resistance right From the amountof cycles, from the amount of
charging cycles that they, thatthey are able to do.
So you know, just like youcharge your phone a bunch of
times, and over time it'll startto get less and less efficient
(31:50):
as well as you're able to haveless and less I'll just say less
and less efficient andsometimes you find that your
battery doesn't last as long.
It's similar to same thing for,like electric vehicles.
Well, that's a certainly a goodone.
And so you know, you're ahundred percent.
Over time has the potential ofbecoming your now 90 percent.
(32:12):
Right, it still is going toshow as you're a hundred percent
, of course, for yourbattery-wise, but the amount of
range that you're getting out ofyour car is lower, is
essentially the equivalent ofhaving that 90 percent.
But this study kind of takes,sheds a little bit more light on
(32:37):
that and helps out, I think, alot of non-EV owners when it
comes to the scares that a lotof people have right.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Well, and inviting them into becoming part of that
lifestyle right.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Yeah, exactly, it alleviates those fears, I think,
a little bit more for people,because I think everybody, you
know, it's always something, theone thing that I hear all the
time when people talk about oh,you know, when they talk about
my car, they're like well, youknow, good luck when you have to
(33:15):
replace your battery orwhatever, like that, because for
some strange reason peoplethink that you're going to
replace your battery, you know,like every five years.
Yeah, exactly Every five years.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
And.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I'm like, well, yeah, like you're taking out a double
A battery and just likeplugging it back in.
Oh man, I got to get my wholenew battery.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Maybe I can roll it and get to keep working.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I mean, everybody lovesto use that kind of same deal.
But honestly I've talked aboutthis many times right, nowadays,
modern batteries, especiallybatteries that are in electric
vehicles, are incrediblyresilient as well as last quite
(34:01):
a while.
Right, you know, if, going frommultiple different auto
manufacturers, I use Tesla, forexample, because that's kind of
what this study is off of, butit kind of probably applies to
most EVs is that you know, forTesla right, you know it from
the factor it comes with aneight year, 100,000 mile,
(34:26):
depending on the variation, allthe way up to like 150,000 mile
warranty on your battery, yourdrivetrain, all that good stuff,
and that's, that's eight years.
So that's way beyond what mostpeople you know.
If we're looking at the typicalcycle of when people get new
cars, that goes far beyond that.
(34:47):
Most people trade or get a newcar within the five year mark,
and so you know these batteriesare lasting and this is just the
warranty.
Most studies have even foundthat people aren't even
replacing their batteries evenpast that a year mark.
But I digress.
Anyway, going back to ourbattery degradation thing, I
(35:11):
wanted to kind of get youropinion on this article because
you know it's talking aboutsuperchargers and and one of the
biggest things about that is,you know, superchargers is it's
charging your battery super fast.
It's charging it differentlythan what you would normally do
at home, you know, other thanjust the speed it's it's pushing
(35:34):
.
So just for really quick context, another if you're plugging in
your car directly into an outlet, plugging into your, and then
you know, or plugging your, theShould be a charger, because
technically the charger is alittle different for EVs.
Technically it's on board thevehicle.
(35:56):
So actually what you'replugging in is like, just like a
power supply kind of deal.
Anyway, anyway, when you'replugging in I'm just going to
just for simplicity when you'replugging in your charger into
your vehicle, you you are usingAC power, right?
(36:18):
So this is AC power.
And then there's a converterinside of your car that converts
that AC current, which is, youknow, what is commonly used
within a regular household.
It converts that into DC, whichis what is used to actually
charge the battery, right?
(36:39):
So when you go to asupercharger, that is actually
different, right?
So that version of the of a, ofa charger, is actually an
actual charger because it'sactually pushing direct current.
So that's DC directly into thebattery.
(36:59):
So there's no conversion needed, it's just pumping it in there,
and that's also why you can getmuch higher speeds, what you
can have, much higher voltage aswell, as you know just all that
good stuff.
And so I guess you know mythought, my, my big, one of my
(37:21):
big questions to you is is likehearing this type of news that
supercharging, you know a lot,doesn't make or makes a
negligible difference when itcomes to battery degradation
than it did, than it does tojust you know, like I don't know
how to do half and half or evenjust barely using superchargers
(37:44):
, Does this kind of?
What's your thought process onthis whole process, on this
whole thing?
Speaker 1 (37:51):
I find it amazing.
I mean, I think that you knowyou have to testify to the
advancements of batterytechnology that should have,
that should be approached withan open mind and be expected
over the next 10 to 15 years.
You know, as we you know,dennis and I have debated this
on this podcast whether this istruly the set in stone future of
(38:12):
automobiles, just due to otherinvestments and other technology
that we've seen.
But regardless of that, I meanto make it so it can last just
as long, but you're like good todrive in 20 minutes.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
If you're low on charge from your house.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
you have to have your house wired differently, Right?
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Or no, no, no.
I mean, you're not going to getsupercharger speeds for sure,
yeah, at your home, but but youcan get level two charging,
which is still significantlyfaster than if I would have just
plugged directly into, like mywall outlet, and so you would.
You would wire your, you wouldlike chain, you would create or
(39:04):
add a plug, something similar tolike a NEMA, nema five, or was
it 15, 15, 20, something I can'tremember right now, my brain is
blanking, but it's essentiallylike the same plug that you
would use for like a dryer.
You could essentially just addthat into wherever you're
(39:27):
parking your vehicle and thenplug it in there, and that's way
faster than than the, you know,wall plug.
Yeah 240 volt.
Right, yeah, yep, yeah, 240volts, 30 amps usually.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Okay, gotcha, yeah, you know, it's just impressive,
it really is, and the fact thatthat that's even a possibility,
man, it's just amazing.
But also to make it so you cando that from your home and be
like, hey, man, I'm good to go.
(40:03):
You know it's not having anymore effect on my battery either
, right, as it would forsupercharging.
So tell me like and maybe justexplain to the audience too, how
fast would that superchargingbe done?
You know, yeah, with that, withthat rolling, is it like a five
minute charge or what is it?
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Well, so sorry.
So all it's really saying isfor the article.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Let me, let me, sorry , let me stop you real fast.
Sorry, you mentioned phase two,right?
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Yeah, phase two charging, or there it's just
level two.
So there's three differentcharging states.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Level two right.
So level two you can charge.
In what?
20 minutes.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
No, no, no, no, it's, it's much longer than that.
So.
So level one is super duperslow.
So that's like if I plug intothe wall, right, so that's going
to be, for instance, here at myapartment, I'm plugging
directly into the into like awall out in my garage and I will
get about 20% charge and maybea span of like, let's think,
(41:14):
maybe 10 hours.
So super slow, right, yeah, um,a level two charger would get
you somewhere in the ballpark of, say you're at 20%.
It'll get you all the way up tosay you're charging up to 90%
and maybe around six to sevenhours.
(41:36):
Wow, so significantly fasterthan a level one.
And then a level three chargerwhich is your DC fast chargers.
Right, those are your superchargers.
I have to say DC fast chargersbecause super chargers are is a
brand technically, but if youwere to go over to any other EVs
(41:57):
that aren't using the Teslasupercharger network, they have
DC fast charging which issupplied from a via various
amount of different chargingmanufacturers or whatever like
that.
So, like Electrify, america,chargepoint, evgo, those are
(42:18):
some of the you know big ones,but that now that is where
you're looking at those 20minute times, right, those,
those 10, those 20 minute, 15minute, depending on how fast
that charger is.
Some of EVs that are thatcharge at a much higher voltage
(42:39):
than Tesla.
So, for instance, like theIonic five, if it's at 20% and
it goes to a DC fast chargerthat is able to do a maximum of
maximum of like 350 Watts, right, if it's able to get that the
predicted charge time from 20,from 20% actually I think it's
(43:03):
lower than 20%, I think it'slike 10% to 80% is like 18
minutes.
So you know, insanely fast,right, you plug in, done right.
Okay, enough time for you,especially if you're going on
like a long road trip.
You can go to like a gasstation and you know, get
(43:24):
whatever you need, get back intoyour car and then you're
essentially almost finishedcharging and then you can leave
again.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
So okay, Well, that's good to know because I know
I've experienced some prettyfast stuff with you man which
has been absolutely amazing, youknow.
So that's my bad for notunderstanding it clearly.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
No, that's no, it's perfectly understandable.
I mean, it's EVs are.
It's one of those things thatit makes sense once you're in it
.
But you know, from the outsidelooking at it it's a little bit
confusing, and I think that isalso a part of the fears that
you know we were talking aboutthe very beginning that a lot of
(44:05):
people have is that it's like,oh man, it's going to take so
long to charge.
But I had that person therequite a bit and I just think
it's a really good feeling thatthe way he really… yeah, Ok, I
liked your accent a lot.
Alright, In my time that I'veowned an EV, I find that, more
than not, you will not bewaiting on a car.
(44:26):
I think a lot of people forgetthe thought process of, or don't
understand or think of.
I think a lot of people stillthink of EVs in the same regard
as they're thinking of theirgas-powered car, where I'm going
to go to a pump and then I'mgoing to fill it up and then I'm
going to go.
Sure, that has happened on, say, a road trip or something like
(44:50):
that, but in most cases you'regoing to plug your car in at
night at home, charge up.
It's essentially like you havea gas station at home.
Right, you charge up, you go tosleep, you come back to your
car, you're fully charged, youhave a full tank of gas in a
different way and then you go.
(45:11):
Right.
This study makes it even nicerbecause, with this proves and
this was done over a decentamount of time and it was
sampled from I originallythought it was like 20,000, but
it was 12,500 Tesla vehicleswhere they were gathering this
(45:36):
data this is nice because, again, I think that was another thing
that a lot of EV owners have isthat you want to make sure that
you have the lowest amount ofbattery degradation.
So, again, the amount of rangemaximum range you'll have as
time goes on will slowlydecrease, like any battery, and
(45:56):
so a lot of EV owners were veryscared of doing a lot of
supercharging because that putsa lot of stress on the battery.
The more stress they get fromthe battery, the more resistant
it resistance it slowly startsto create, which leads to higher
amounts of battery degradation.
That's the simplest way tothink of it.
(46:20):
Same reason why most EV ownersaren't recommended to charge all
the way to 100%.
You're usually going to chargesomewhere around 90% to 80%
battery, unless you're going ona long road trip, because of the
amount of stress that it putson the battery, Same as when
(46:40):
you're plugging in your phone.
You plug in your phone.
You can plug it into thefastest charger you want.
It'll jump up to 70% and thenit gets real slow.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yes, because it's so quick.
So monitoring how muchelectricity comes into the
battery.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Correct.
Yes, because since it's nearlyfull, it can only take in so
many electrons.
It can't take in as many as itcould before.
Yes, right, so yes, I feel likethis just opens up another
world for EV owners, as well aspotential EV owners, to be able
(47:22):
to fully take advantage of thecar, the vehicle.
I think I was speaking to oneof my coworkers who also
recently purchased a Tesla andhe was saying he's like you know
, all of this has just been kindof slowly telling me like I can
(47:46):
just drive my car, like I don'thave to really worry as much as
I thought I had to, I justdrive my car and then
everything's good.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Like you know, yeah, but you have to pull.
So do you think this is my nextquestion really that that
charging capability of doingthose super fast chargers, will
become more accessible forhomeowners and stuff like that
in the near future, like or inthe coming years?
You know the thing I'm thinkingabout, right, when electric
(48:21):
cars start rolling out.
They talked about I forget whatthe title of this is called,
but you know, oh, inductivecharging yes, so you can.
That would be a heavy installrate.
I just want to warn people.
But you could have where youjust drive your car over and
it's through the concretecharging, the battery of your
(48:42):
car right under here, and thatcould go at a level that reaches
level three charging likeyou're talking about you know, I
don't.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
honestly, I don't think so, and I'll explain the
reason why.
It's because the problem theinductive charging is cool, but
I think it's more of a coolconcept because you're losing a
lot of.
It's similar because it'sessentially just like wireless
charging, right, wirelesscharging for your phone or
(49:13):
anything like that.
The issue that I have with thatis that, one, your house isn't
going to be wired to be able todeliver that amount of
electricity.
Not like that You'd have tohave like a whole.
There'd be like a wholedifferent thing that you'd have
to do.
But two, there's just so muchloss of energy that would happen
(49:38):
within that transference,within heat, from heat as well
as as well as just you know, ofcourse energy not being
everywhere.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Energy's really just carrying it away.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Yeah, exactly.
So you're just losing a lot ofenergy and you would be pushing
out more energy than you'reactually receiving, so I don't
think it would actually makesense.
Honestly, it would be cool, andI can see it for slower
applications right, I could seesomething similar to where,
(50:13):
instead of in parking lot havinga whole bunch of like EV
chargers right, it's just EVparking spots you literally park
in there and then boom, you'regood to go.
I could see something like that.
Right, it can be a nice slowtrickle charger.
It doesn't have to put out ahuge amount of power and it's
just topping you up a little bit, right?
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Well, and you know also, if you have equipment
that's entirely electric, right,like a blow or a lawn mower,
those kind of things, you canset it over a panel in your
garage and it just charges rightback up.
That's a great way to make useof it, just like you do with
your phones currently, you know,like some of your phones.
So yeah, that's interesting.
(50:55):
So then I guess my nextquestion would be I know we
might be deviating a little bit,but does that leave the level
three charging for maininstitutions to sell on the road
you?
Speaker 2 (51:10):
know how.
So what do you mean by sell?
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Well, so rather than you being able to install it in
your house, you have to makesure that you have to go, just
kind of like how you go to gasstations, right?
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Is that as a profit potential?
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, it's always been like that
.
Any super fast DC charging isjust because of the
infrastructure of it.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
Well, that's what it is.
If it will stay that way, right.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah, I think so.
I think that's just going to bea regular thing.
I think it'll be just like gasstations as it is now.
I think chargers willeventually become synonymous and
have the same, you know,interfaces as regular gas
station pumps or whatever likethat is just.
It'll be a little bit slower.
I do think there are a couple ofunforeseen things that we need
(52:01):
to work out, one of which Ithink a lot of people aren't
really thinking about, or atleast talking about I think, or
I don't see a lot of, andhappily we haven't had to deal
with that much of it.
But I think, using DC chargers,they, while they are relatively
(52:22):
fast, they're fast but I dothink there can be something
like a safety concern because,similar to like, if you're at a
pump, like a gas station pump,but at least within the gas
station pumps, you will usuallyfinish filling up within the
(52:46):
five to six minute range orsomething like that, where EVs
is a little bit longer.
So there is a possibility ofmore problematic crimes or
whatever like that to happen.
So I do think that is somethingto think about and I think it's
(53:12):
something that hasn't reallybeen brought up just because
right now we haven't had toworry too much about it, but I
do think it is something that asEVs become more and more
prevalent, more people or weneed to probably find better
ways to kind of secure that kindof stuff.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
I feel that, man, yeah, I think that that's a good
way to look at that.
And that's actually somethingI've been wondering about for a
little while is how that willall work out, because, for a
reason, there's an opportunitythere to really gain money off
this stuff, just like ExxonMobiland those kind of companies do.
(53:58):
And, by the way, I read thisthing, bro, that ExxonMobil has
been lying about how it'schanging its focus, when really,
behind the scenes, it's beenrolling out a huge rollout to
keep people buying gas.
(54:18):
Yeah, I don't fully know whatthat looks like or what that
means for the future, but youhave to believe that with those
type of companies, there's goingto be a battle, you know.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Yeah, yeah, you know what I can.
Going back to some of the stuffthat we've talked about before,
I can easily see them being oneof the bigger pushers of
alternative or synthetic fuels.
Yeah, because, again, thatkeeps people in gas powered
(54:52):
vehicles that are usingsomething that maybe they create
, or even requires the stuffthat they create or they make,
like oil or something similar tothat, to continue to keep them
in those vehicles for a longhaul.
(55:14):
So I can see that.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , and that's going to be kind of
a big thing, right it's a fightfor that.
Well, man, I was thinking.
So it's just interesting totalk about how our advancements
in technology right, they justbring this like dramatization,
(55:38):
or really this big debate overthe future of what they're used
for.
You have to be a lot morebelieving in favor of what
electric vehicles would be usedfor, yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
I think the electrification future is
probably most likely going to beour biggest thing, I think you
know, just looking at a lot ofthe things that we have to do
for climate change, as well as alot of the new possibilities
that renewable energies provide.
(56:19):
I think they do.
They, of course, provide theirown challenges, but I think they
provide a lot more upsides thanthey do, than they have
beforehand.
So I do think that is somethingto think about too.
Speaker 1 (56:37):
Yeah, I completely agree.
Why else did you?
I wanted to check in, whereelse did you want to lead this,
this topic, bro?
Speaker 2 (56:44):
Yeah, the last thing that I really wanted to talk
about, too, about this, is thatthis also it's something that
I've talked about multiple timesbefore and in some ways, I
still kind of stand by it, but Ido think that this article
helps lead a little bit morecontext in which.
(57:11):
A little bit more context whenit comes to like other things
Sorry, my brain was trying to gothrough so with this lower
degradation that you get fromusing a supercharger or
something similar to that, whatthat tells me and it's something
that I've been seeing I'm asuper nerd, so I love to like
(57:34):
jump on car forms and all sortsof other things whenever I get a
new car or something like thatand get to talk to other people
who have.
You know, whatever the car isthat I have and that was one
thing that I kept hearing, andfor a long time, just because of
the information that I haveknown before this article right
(57:56):
is that I had started to seemore and more people who live in
apartments getting EVs and andcharging those EVs solely at
superchargers not charging themanywhere else, but getting those
EVs and charging them solely atsuperchargers and that is their
only means of charging their,their, their electric vehicle.
(58:18):
And that or sorry.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
Why is that their only means?
Speaker 2 (58:23):
Because they don't have a a way, you know, if
they're not someone like, forinstance, me I live in an
apartment and I charge my EV andI purchased a garage right a
garage that's not attached to myapartment unit but is a part in
(58:43):
my apartment community.
I have in a garage, I parked mycar there and I can plug it in.
Some.
If someone decides that theydon't want to do that, they
don't want to or they can'tafford to buy a garage or
there's not a garage availablein their community, you know
(59:03):
their only other means ofsuperchar or their only other
means of charging their vehicleis to supercharge it and in some
ways that kind of some wayskind of takes away some of the
advantages of owning an EV.
But in some ways it doesn'tright.
You're at that point.
You're just treating the EVlike a gas powered vehicle and
(59:27):
you're still probably coming outat a much cheaper, at a much
cheaper rate than you would toto fill up your own gas powered
vehicle.
Actually, I think I remember oneof my same co-worker that I had
talked to before.
He also lives in an apartmentand he said he went to the
(59:50):
supercharger super late at nightbecause the charging, the.
There's the way Tesla does.
It is like there's a surgecharging essentially.
So it's essentially during likehigh rush hour charge, high
times where more energy is beingused, they up the prices to try
(01:00:12):
to lower the amount of peoplewho are using them.
So he said he was at like 20%.
He went to the supercharger andcharged all the way up to 90%
and he was able to get to thatpoint with I think that's it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Bless you.
Sorry about that he's dabbingon.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Bless you, bro, I am, I am.
Oh, thank you, but essentiallyhe was able to get all the way
up to 100% from 20% with forlike A-bucks.
Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Wow, Wow, that's amazing.
I mean, that's what peopledon't understand.
You know what I mean.
They all understand howeffective that is.
I mean, even when you'replaying paying supercharge,
territory pricing right.
Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, well, it's because he wascharging it, you know, in
off-time, off busy times, and sohe was able to Sorry, it was
non-busy times and so he got amuch cheaper charging rate and,
yeah, he got to fill up for awhole A-bucks, which is kind of
(01:01:31):
crazy, right, you know, youcan't get that with gas not at
all.
And so what I was really tryingto say throughout this whole
process is that I think thiskind of opens it up more to
people, for EV owners, for moreEV owners to show up in
(01:01:52):
apartment communities, because Ihave always said and in some
ways, like I said, I still kindof say this, but I have always
said that it, the entry, thebarrier to entry, is not just
the price, it is therequirements in some ways, in
some forms or fashion, to haveto that you, that, in some ways,
(01:02:17):
you need to properly use right.
And so that is where the wholeI stated this once before where,
sure, once you get past theprice, you still need to kind of
almost have a house because youget the advantage of being able
(01:02:37):
to charge it home.
You have a more stable chargingenvironment rather than having
to do the chaos I felt like atthe time was more chaos charging
of being able to go to asupercharger and having to
charge up and all sorts of otherstuff.
And so now that this shows thatthere's little to no
(01:02:59):
degradation, or at leastnegligible degradation, then
your average degradation, Ishould really say, from
supercharging, that tells methat more people, especially now
that Teslas are getting cheaperright, you can get a used Tesla
for I've seen some for 20 grandor not 20 grand, but it's
(01:03:23):
closer to like 27 grand, 2079.
Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, which isinsane, right, as well as the
tax incentives that are outthere, it makes it even more and
more compelling for anybody tobuy an EV, and so that is one
(01:03:45):
thing that I feel is reallyreally big about this study and
why it's so important is because, again, it's like I was telling
, like I said earlier, you knowyou can get an EV with all the
other things that you can get,but you can get an EV with all
the other things that you canget.
You know you can get an EV withall the advantages and just
(01:04:05):
drive it and not have to work somuch about like this or that or
do I need to replace my batteryor whatever, like that Plus you
have.
There is a certain level ofease of mind that you get
because you don't have to worryabout looking at.
When it comes to maintenancewise, there's like two things
(01:04:26):
that I need to worry about forthe most part, which is brake
pads and tires.
But even brake pads aren'tsomething that I'm going to be
charging or I'm going to bechanging a lot it's super rare.
And tires is something, butthat is a little bit more
frequent but it's not that bad.
But when it comes to likethinking about road trips,
(01:04:50):
that's even with a cast poweredvehicle you want to make sure
all your fluids are top-top.
You make sure your coolant'sgood.
You want to make sure your oilis good.
You want to make sure, if youhaven't changed your oil, change
that oil.
Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
You want to make sure that everything looks good and
pristine and you know, as an EV,no, I mean that's just a good
point, I mean it's not different, it's just the focus is
different, you know what I mean.
And, honestly, more effectiveand less time consuming.
Really, yeah, you know.
(01:05:25):
Yeah, I mean it cut you offwith that.
No, no, you're good, but youknow.
One thing I was thinking too isthat you know, I think people
often get caught up in.
If I'm buying an electric car,it's this much more Oftentimes
it is.
You just mentioned how, likeused to, tesla's, for example,
(01:05:45):
are becoming more affordable,but it's hard for me outside
looking in man.
But if you really like, do themath and find out how affordable
charging is or could be andbank on the fact that it's
becoming more accessible, andthen you say, ok, I get a child,
or I get a child tax credit,but a car tax credit back by buy
(01:06:10):
this right.
What I think it doesn't workfor is people that keep cars
short term right.
But if you keep your cars longterm, it can end up either
averaging out and being betterfor the environment or being
cheap in the long run.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
Yeah, yeah, no, you're right, you're right.
Yeah, being able to that'sbecoming a growing trend, you
know.
Yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, I think you're, Ithink you're completely right, I
think it's it's something shortterm.
It's not super great, but Ithink for sure if you're, if
(01:06:49):
you're in the market, but I feellike your short term car buyers
usually aren't actually buyingtheir cars or leasing their cars
, so that's a little bit Right.
Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
Exactly, exactly, like a three year lease or
something like that For sure.
Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
Exactly, exactly.
But yeah, I mean if you're, ifyou're buying a car for a long
time, right, you know, like Iknow, me and my family, we we
tend to be more people who, youknow, we drive the car until the
tires fall off, is what weusually say.
You know, if you're, if you'rethat type of car buyer, then I
(01:07:23):
think EVs, you know, make a hugeamount of sense and you're,
you're saving quite a bit, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
So yeah, well, you know you're not.
Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Yeah, I know, I know, and let's see.
I'm sure that there's a lot ofother people watching right now
that feel the exact same way.
So if you feel the exact sameway, let us know in the comments
, man.
But yeah, no, it definitely isone of those things.
And, look, this is a change forme.
Those people have watched theshow for a long time.
They've known that this issomething I've learned and,
(01:07:57):
quite honestly, something I'veexperienced thanks to you, man.
You've been great at showing meand expanding my knowledge on
this firsthand, and it's gettingto a point where, depending on
what you're looking at probablynot for me with my needs or
wants right now, but dependingon what you're looking at if you
want a car that could haul agood amount of people and be
(01:08:18):
good on the environment and beaffordable in the long haul,
you'd want to start looking atelectric vehicles, man,
especially if the gas is goingto go up to three, seventy nine
again.
Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
You know, yeah, see, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
I had.
You know what's really funnyabout that?
I don't even look at gas pricesanymore.
Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Right, it's kind of fine to think about, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Gas stations.
I barely go to those.
I go to those to, like, cleanmy windshield or, I don't know,
get something.
Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
Oh, really Really.
That's why it's a convenientstore for Dennis and it is a
convenient store for me.
Yeah, I know, I know, but see,that's the thing I was thinking
of earlier when we were talkingabout keeping those
supercharging abilities only atDifferent locations.
Excuse me, oh, it is justsimply, I would say, to build
(01:09:13):
those stores around them andentice people to come in and buy
stuff from them.
Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
Yeah, yeah, are you all right?
Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Yeah, I think that's.
I think that's the not toodistant future, man.
Honestly Well, I don't know ifyou have anything more to add,
man, I think we really kickedthis in the tail.
I think so too man.
Two completely neurodivergenttopics and we wrapped them up
together with a little chocolate, a little caramel oh man,
(01:09:42):
snickers, you know what I'msaying.
Mm, hmm, so thank you guys somuch for tuning in.
We really appreciate it.
Please let us know what youthink of this episode by leaving
a rating or a view.
Jump on the live stream with usevery Thursday, give us a
follow and make sure you getthose notifications so you can
jump in and discuss with us inreal time and check out our shop
(01:10:03):
.
If you want to buy any coolcatch up podcast, merch, we know
you'll love it.
I know firsthand which is notsomething you typically brag
about with your own merch, butyou'll love it.
So, with that said, man, Ithink we have had a good one.
I think we have had a good one.
Thank you guys.
So much for listening.
Thank you for watching.
(01:10:24):
I will catch up with you nextweek.
Now I want to jump into this right off the top.
This is not going to be whatthe whole episode is about.
If you didn't come here forthis, please stick around,
because I think you will likethe second half of this episode.
This was a big, big story today.
Basically, we're talking abouta development in the world of
biotech and geopolitics thecrazy thing about this story,
(00:24):
and also.
Before I keep going, man, letme just remind myself to do the
main thing I gotta do.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, man, you gotta share it.
You gotta share it.
Get it to those people'seyeballs so everybody can check
it out.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Something finna hit their eyeballs.
Man, it's gotta be this, ohyeah.
Oh yeah, I don't know what I'msaying, man, excuse me.
Thank you guys for tuning intonight.
You guys are rad, all right,let's get this thing shared, all
right, double shared, all right.
So here's the crazy thing thistoday I want to attribute this
(01:03):
properly this report comes outfrom Washington Post.
What the crazy thing about itis to me is it low key in a
certain way.
I didn't just say low keybecause Dennis and I spent 20
minutes talking about Marvel.
In certain ways, it affirmssome conspiracy theories when
(01:26):
the pandemic was just taken off.
Okay, so let's hear some quickdetails on this.
In April 2020, china giftedSerbia a cutting edge lab called
FireEye, which has thecapability of genetic testing,
not just for viruses, it turnsout, though that's what it was
sold as but also it is for humangenomes as well.
(01:50):
These labs have proliferatedglobally, reaching four
continents in more than 20countries, including Canada,
latvia, saudi Arabia, ethiopia,south Africa and Australia.
It's interesting becausethere's a lot of it in Africa.
I don't know why that is orwhat they're trying to gain out
(02:12):
of it.
When you read on, it certainlyfeels like they're trying to
gain out of it.
I wouldn't say anythingdifferent for a first world
country.
Necessarily, when you're talkingabout China.
It does make you wonder whatthey're trying to gain from this
.
What's the concern?
Let's find out, friends.
Human DNA database, fireeyelabs could potentially
(02:34):
contribute to a massivecollection of global genetic
data.
Chinese officials have framedthese efforts as beneficial for
public health and scientificresearch, but Western analysts
worry about other applications,such as bio weapons or mass
surveillance.
There's a world arrangement ofrules of what can and cannot be
(03:03):
used in war, which is very weird, right?
What is what it is?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, it's a sort of the Geneva Convention.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yes, exactly that would prevent bio weapons Mass
surveillance.
I think of I've said this a fewtimes over the course of this
show Minority Report.
There's a scene where TomCruise's character walks into
this mall and scans his eye andknows who he is, what he's
(03:31):
interested in and does customadvertisements as he walks into
the mall.
Stuff like that, right.
That's not the report.
Another concern is economicleverage.
Genetic information is oftendubbed the new gold in
scientific circles.
China has its ISM becoming theworld leader in biotechnology by
(03:53):
2035.
If it succeeds, it could holdimmense economic and strategic
power over its global rivals,particularly the United States.
So let's dive into that one alittle further.
What does that mean to you, man?
I was trying to decipher thatone too.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, that's a hard one.
I guess my thought process onit is that it can be that there
is just overall, more likethey're ahead when it comes to.
I think it's something akin toone of the similar to one of the
(04:40):
AI gosh darn.
One of the more recent AImodels was able to map all the
proteins known to manessentially right Like get a
full genetic structure of all ofthose proteins.
So I think it would besomething similar to like.
If you have that type of data,you can now use that data to
(05:08):
better create different types ofgosh darn treatments, medicines
, all that stuff right and so,or go ahead.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
No, dude, you had opened up exactly where my mind
was going.
Man, I'm thinking the exactsame thing.
It makes it I mean, it justfeeds right into that major
conspiracy theory they're usingthis to intentionally perhaps or
maybe not, but they couldintentionally trigger another
(05:46):
pandemic that would take outnon-Chinese people.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, you could have it.
Yeah, because technically right, in theory.
I guess that's the biggestthing that we really need to say
is that this is a theory, ofcourse, but in theory there is a
possibility of you have enoughdiverse genetic material and
(06:12):
then you can say, okay, so thistype of racial group, right.
Or in truth, I should reallysay this type of person from
this ethnic background, becausein truth, race is more of a
(06:33):
political construct rather thanan actual, like factorial one
but you could say, someone fromthis ethnic background has this
type of genetic sequence, likeall of them share this type of
genetic sequence, and then Iguess, technically, you could
modify a virus or somethingsimilar to that to only target
(07:01):
this group of people.
Now, of course, there's goingto be outliers, just like
they're always in any sort ofstudy, but yes, you could
technically target it that way.
Now you can also do this theinverse way, right?
You can create a vaccine thatonly that works perfectly, right
?
This is at the peak of thisright.
(07:22):
You could essentially create avaccine or cure for essentially
any type of disease that wouldaffect this one single person,
because you have enough geneticinformation to understand what
will and won't work really wellwith their genetic makeup, and
(07:44):
then you'd be able to go fromthere, so you can do the same
thing.
You can do something reallygreat with it, or you can do
something really bad with it.
That's kind of where that leadsinto right.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Well, that's a really great point, man, but still, it
would be self-serving man,because if another world
pandemic happens, whether it'sbecause of them or just
happenstance, they have nowplaced themselves, through
manipulative behavior, to be atthe top of the market for it.
But you're right, I think wenailed it on the head and, man,
(08:20):
I'm only halfway through whatwe're going to talk about on
this.
It's just crazy People who werefirst labeled as conspiracy
theorists are now beingvalidated.
man by major publication in theWashington Post.
I will say I never fullydoubted the idea that China was
benefiting on this Shoot man.
(08:44):
There might be ways there arenot being reported about how
America benefited on this.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And I do want to state that it's like a partial
validation right.
Because it's not a fullverification or anything like
that.
We're not admitting that any ofthese conspiracy theories are
fully true or anything like that.
It's just there is a higheramount of evidence that the
(09:19):
Chinese government or theChinese Communist Party, or I
guess I should really just saythe Chinese government, may have
been using this institution tobe able to collect multiple sets
of data or DNA data to use forvarious research purposes.
(09:41):
That is the facts that we havecurrently.
Right, we can infer from whathas been used in some of the
other data that we know about,or there's some of the other
facts to have a little bit moreto be able to get to the
(10:03):
conclusions that we are at.
But I just wanted to say thatjust as a disclaimer.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
With that, dalla, I mean, you're absolutely right on
that.
I do think that if you add upeverything, given this situation
at the start of COVID-19, rightbefore it came a pandemic here
in America, which was one of thelast final places right after
(10:34):
that they start rolling thismachine out Without everything
else, you'd be like man, itcould just be coincidental
timing.
It sounds like that would takesomething that takes a lot of
prep to get ready.
But man, it's just so weird howit was also beneficial in
(10:56):
helping to find the cure toCOVID-19.
It's a temporary cure, right,it's like flu vaccine.
I find it interesting, bro, I'mnot trying to lay claim
necessarily, but this againofficial article from the
(11:16):
Washington Post, not biased isleaning their direction a little
bit, don't you think?
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, I mean, I think they may be.
I think that the article doeshave some sort of lean towards.
It could be something that theywere, there are other
collecting data for, or they usethe moment of COVID to collect
(11:48):
data to better create somethingthat could be something like a
biological weapon or somethingsimilar to that.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
But I don't know.
Honestly, it's hard for me tofully say.
One thing that I will say too,going into what you were saying,
is that it is interesting tonote that, of course, I'm sure
this organization also helped inthe efforts to be able to
(12:27):
create a vaccine in a recordtime fastest time that we've
ever been able to create avaccine for a disease like this.
Absolutely I do think that itdid help in that regard, but I
do think there is something tothe fact that when COVID
(12:51):
happened, they jumped out andautomatically started collecting
this type of information thatcould be incredibly useful for,
say, another trial in some ways,right.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
And I'm using that mRNA technology for this vaccine
and mRNA people got and stillare obviously nerve wracked.
Oh, they have this newtechnology.
They're trying to control us.
Mrna had actually been workedon and built a foundation out of
(13:31):
for cancer vaccines as well aspaid for, and what's great about
mRNA vaccine in general is ithas this adaptive foundation
that you can alter to treat this, that, this, that.
So the goal is to speed up thetimes of critical vaccines,
(13:55):
which just happened to be aworldwide blessing that they had
already started working on thatbefore COVID hit.
So, moving on with the issueshere, data security and privacy
Critics point out that theChinese company BGI, which
(14:15):
manufactures FireEye Labs whichwas the name of this machine, or
who built this machine has deepties to the Chinese government,
raising questions about whoultimately has access to the
sensitive genetic information.
In ethical concerns, some USofficials argue that BGI and its
subsidiaries have been involvedin analyzing genetic material
(14:37):
for the Chinese government'scrackdown on ethnic and
religious minorities, althoughBGI denies these allegations.
Another thing that I readthat's not included in this
rundown is that they alsoreceived I'll go back and verify
this, but they also receivedgenetic material from the US.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Interesting yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Let me double check this real quick.
Okay, that's what it was.
Vgi acquired the patents to theAmerican firm's DNA sequence
machines and began making andselling the equipment through a
spin-off company.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
I see Interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, so, but oh, this is what I found out.
Okay, this is a critical pieceof information.
Okay, by 2019, their businesspartnerships and stock purchases
, nearly two dozen Chinesecompanies had acquired the
rights to genetic data and otherprivate records of US patients.
(15:52):
According to a 2019 reportprepared by the US government US
China Economic and SecurityReview Commission.
During the same period, us lawenforcement officials were
tracking hacking attemptsinvolving companies with large
troves of genetic data.
Justice Department and Dijkman2019 accused Chinese operatives
(16:13):
of illegally accessing patientdatabases at four US companies.
The hackers are believed tohave siphoned the private
healthcare data, including DNAinformation, of more than 80
million Americans.
According to prosecutors manthat's crazy.
Yes, so that went on before thismachine started rolling out, so
(16:34):
it sets a bad tone.
You know what I'm saying?
It's all going down at the sametime.
Bgi, the parent company of thistech, is rolling out, with
America trying to get more DNAtech.
Right yeah?
Now let me be clear.
We view this as like the mostsynthetic way to tell people
(16:58):
apart.
Right, yeah, but really, thattechnology is needed for the
future of making a world that iscancer-free, virus-free,
pandemic-free.
It is critical, I hate to sayit.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah it is, it is yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
But there's a good side to this, hopefully.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, exactly, it's just like the AI tools that
we've talked about many timesduring our podcast, which is
they can be used for amazing,wonderful, great things, and
then they can also be used forvery terrible things, and it's
(17:45):
just one of those things thatyou have to hope that it's used
properly.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I mean that's the role of a newtechnology, right?
Although, again, the differencewith this is the rollout of
this technology at the time thatit happened and taking
advantage of desperation whenneeded materials or in need for
(18:17):
materials and just resources forthe pandemic, right, so we'll
move on with this.
It says the role of that.
Here's the role the pandemicplayed.
Covid-19 served as anunexpected catalyst unexpected,
just to be clear.
So even Washington Post issaying it was not intentional to
be the catalyst for thismachine.
Okay, it was not intentionalfor this global genetic data
(18:40):
collection effort.
The pandemic opened doors forChinese companies to deploy
their technologies worldwideunder the guise of public health
, which is allowed for anexpansion, and collecting
genetic data.
So they did use it, accordingto this report, in a
manipulative way, but theydidn't push forward the pandemic
(19:01):
to make it work.
So that's a critical piece.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
That is a really good for the context of it.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
It is.
While the advancements inbiotechnology offer promising
avenues for healthcare andscientific research, they also
present challenges and ethicaldilemmas that cannot be ignored.
As China aggressively pushesits biotechnological
capabilities, it's crucial toconsider not just benefits, but
also the potential for misuseand the impact on global
geopolitics.
Sorry, so here's what I thinkabout this.
(19:37):
I do believe that we did touchon what the concern would be
about this.
There's this movie and ifyou're in the comments, let me
know if you remember what it wascalled.
I'm going to do a quick Googlesearch let's see if I can find
(20:01):
it.
Let me know in the comments ifyou've seen the movie Gadica.
Have you seen that, bro?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I have not.
I have not seen Gadica.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Believe it or not, man, I actually watched this
movie in one of my high schoolclasses.
I believe it was.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
What this movie is about is genetic engineering and
how you basically create aneven more separated, like
hierarchical society.
People that run it, profit offof it, live big time like sports
stars.
Their family was rich and wereable to afford genetic
(20:38):
engineering that give them theabilities to run faster, jump
higher, think quicker, whereasnormal people, who are not
necessarily dumb or lackanything, they just don't have
that genetic twist orengineering to them.
They live in poverty.
I'm sorry, it's not a blessingif they did that.
They live in poverty becausethey can't afford the experiment
(21:03):
.
So we'll get them to that nextalmost super human level, and
that is, I think, a veryrealistic approach to something
that could happen.
I say it would, but it's thoseand among the things that we
mentioned earlier that reallymakes me concerned about this
(21:24):
gathering of genetic data.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Right, yeah, same, same Because, yeah, there's just
like you know, like the articlesaid, like you said, dna is
probably going to be the nextfrontier when it comes to
overall.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Just development of human health.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yes, exactly, Human health as well, as you know, of
course, human weapons right.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah Well, how do you feel with human weapons?
Are you thinking like GI Joetype people?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I mean, yeah, technically there is, there is
that possibility.
But I was also thinking of, youknow, biological weapons.
You kid, because I mean youknow technically?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
like Mega man, yeah man.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, man, or you know you could, you could create
I don't know the Hulk orwhatever.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
I mean, yeah, I mean obviously not as something as
comic-ish as that, but you could.
You could do something to thateffect If a person's super human
strength through that geneticengineering right.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, exactly Exactly , and you know they I lost it,
but I think you know it gives anupper leg to, or upper hand,
(23:02):
sorry, gives the upper hand topeople who have, you know who
are the have nots and who aren'tthe who can't afford that
process, right, it's similar towhich I would imagine this would
come into this play, but it'sthat designer baby aspect.
Right, you can design people tobe, you know, I don't know the
(23:27):
best, right, you can make surethat they are resistant to, you
know, developing, say cancer,and resistant to developing,
like, different sorts ofdiseases, as well as you know
the regular stuff of like Idon't know, being able to run
super fast, be able to have,like I don't know, super human
(23:51):
strength and all sorts of otherstuff.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Sure, well, absolutely For a war, and that's
the thing you just can't helpbut think about with our world,
right?
It's how this benefit them.
It may not be the initialintention with some of these
people, right?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
They carve that genetic material on file right
and they look at like the Dwaynethe Rock Johnson.
They're like you know what?
What if all of our people hadthat strength with Dwayne the
Rock Johnson right?
That capability of growing thatstrength.
It just is going to help theirhuman side of military fighting.
(24:34):
You know there's some rumorsthat, like top secret
intelligence, people have thatkind of stuff manipulated in
them you know or have technologythat give them that kind of
strength.
So to be able to manipulatetheir genetics where it's
natural, that'd be insane man.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, it would be.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
One thing I do want to say about this, because you
know us if you've been here fora while we're not ones that like
to attack people based off of apolitical story, right?
One thing I will say from ourperspective, right?
Well, specifically from mine aswell.
You see the governmentattacking TikTok, right?
(25:19):
Oh man, don't like TikTok.
Steal our people's data, don'tsteal their information, right?
Meanwhile, facebook slashInstagram very much does that,
right.
But here's the differencethey're American.
You know what I'm saying and Itrust Washington Post.
I'm not putting it against them.
(25:41):
Necessarily.
For them, it may be a reasonthat they were able to collect
this data, but not for a similartype of work going on the
United States.
You know what I mean.
I mean, you got me hard tobelieve that China is the only
one that's putting this together, bro.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, yeah.
So, especially one of the linesthat we read in there they are
working to be one of the worldleaders.
One of the world leaders, right?
So guess who that other one is?
It's really us, man.
So I think this is somethingthat we should cover as time
goes on because, to consider,that's what you know going to be
(26:23):
a developing thing, anddeveloping within the next 12
years, that's a pretty big andconsiderable thing.
So, on one hand, it shouldn'tenlighten us for the future of
healthcare.
It really should.
It really should that.
I mean, for many people thatshould just be a world-relieving
(26:43):
kind of a thing.
But on the other hand, man, youjust don't know what's going to
be going on behind the scenes.
Yeah, Like.
UFOs man.
We know they're out there.
We don't know what's happening.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yeah, man, you're right, you really could be there
.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
It could be, man.
So anyway, I think we had agood discussion on this.
Let's go ahead and slap intoour next topic, man.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, man.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
I got the best way to do it.
Let's roll the intro man.
All right.
(27:38):
Now that we've tackled someheavy geopolitics right, let's
shift our focus to something alittle closer to home Electric
vehicles okay, you'd besurprised to find out that some
common assumptions about EVbatteries are not holding up
under scrutiny.
But before we run into that, Iwant to let you guys know the
(28:01):
three best ways to survive andsupport this show.
Number one let's get the little.
There you go.
Okay, oh, wow, some 1.8millimeter cables.
Number one leave us a rating andreview wherever you're
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(28:22):
It will really help us out alot.
It will help us to know whatyou think of this episode and
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Excuse me, guys, it's fallallergy season.
Number two oh my gosh bro, wecould connect so many headphones
(28:44):
right now.
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(29:07):
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(29:28):
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It's fall time, right, it'swhat you want man, think about
(29:49):
it.
Don't take me as an example.
I'm wearing a tank top rightnow.
All right, for the most part,you're going to want a nice long
sleeve t-shirt, a hoodie, a hat, a beanie we got all of it.
If you want to drink somethingwarm, we got mugs for you too.
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(30:09):
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I dramatized that one.
So yeah, let's get into thisnext topic.
(30:30):
The common belief is thatsupercharging electric car
battery leads to fasterdegradation than regular
charging.
It's kind of like things welearned with my laptop, my phone
.
You want to have the properchargers on it, especially with
phones.
Man, I've encountered this withmy iPhone.
(30:52):
It's easy to find things thatdon't charge it fast enough.
That drains on the battery.
So there's a certain window formost batteries.
Maybe you can explain thatbetter, right?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, yeah, of course .
So I guess when I mean batterydegradation or what we, when we
say battery degradation, thereal big thing is is, over time,
a essentially as a lithium ioncell because this is more
specific to lithium ionbatteries they build up
(31:28):
resistance right From the amountof cycles, from the amount of
charging cycles that they, thatthey are able to do.
So you know, just like youcharge your phone a bunch of
times, and over time it'll startto get less and less efficient
(31:50):
as well as you're able to haveless and less I'll just say less
and less efficient andsometimes you find that your
battery doesn't last as long.
It's similar to same thing for,like electric vehicles.
Well, that's a certainly a goodone.
And so you know, you're ahundred percent.
Over time has the potential ofbecoming your now 90 percent.
(32:12):
Right, it still is going toshow as you're a hundred percent
, of course, for yourbattery-wise, but the amount of
range that you're getting out ofyour car is lower, is
essentially the equivalent ofhaving that 90 percent.
But this study kind of takes,sheds a little bit more light on
(32:37):
that and helps out, I think, alot of non-EV owners when it
comes to the scares that a lotof people have right.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Well, and inviting them into becoming part of that
lifestyle right.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Yeah, exactly, it alleviates those fears, I think,
a little bit more for people,because I think everybody, you
know, it's always something, theone thing that I hear all the
time when people talk about oh,you know, when they talk about
my car, they're like well, youknow, good luck when you have to
(33:15):
replace your battery orwhatever, like that, because for
some strange reason peoplethink that you're going to
replace your battery, you know,like every five years.
Yeah, exactly Every five years.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
And.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I'm like, well, yeah, like you're taking out a double
A battery and just likeplugging it back in.
Oh man, I got to get my wholenew battery.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Maybe I can roll it and get to keep working.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I mean, everybody lovesto use that kind of same deal.
But honestly I've talked aboutthis many times right, nowadays,
modern batteries, especiallybatteries that are in electric
vehicles, are incrediblyresilient as well as last quite
(34:01):
a while.
Right, you know, if, going frommultiple different auto
manufacturers, I use Tesla, forexample, because that's kind of
what this study is off of, butit kind of probably applies to
most EVs is that you know, forTesla right, you know it from
the factor it comes with aneight year, 100,000 mile,
(34:26):
depending on the variation, allthe way up to like 150,000 mile
warranty on your battery, yourdrivetrain, all that good stuff,
and that's, that's eight years.
So that's way beyond what mostpeople you know.
If we're looking at the typicalcycle of when people get new
cars, that goes far beyond that.
(34:47):
Most people trade or get a newcar within the five year mark,
and so you know these batteriesare lasting and this is just the
warranty.
Most studies have even foundthat people aren't even
replacing their batteries evenpast that a year mark.
But I digress.
Anyway, going back to ourbattery degradation thing, I
(35:11):
wanted to kind of get youropinion on this article because
you know it's talking aboutsuperchargers and and one of the
biggest things about that is,you know, superchargers is it's
charging your battery super fast.
It's charging it differentlythan what you would normally do
at home, you know, other thanjust the speed it's it's pushing
(35:34):
.
So just for really quick context, another if you're plugging in
your car directly into an outlet, plugging into your, and then
you know, or plugging your, theShould be a charger, because
technically the charger is alittle different for EVs.
Technically it's on board thevehicle.
(35:56):
So actually what you'replugging in is like, just like a
power supply kind of deal.
Anyway, anyway, when you'replugging in I'm just going to
just for simplicity when you'replugging in your charger into
your vehicle, you you are usingAC power, right?
(36:18):
So this is AC power.
And then there's a converterinside of your car that converts
that AC current, which is, youknow, what is commonly used
within a regular household.
It converts that into DC, whichis what is used to actually
charge the battery, right?
(36:39):
So when you go to asupercharger, that is actually
different, right?
So that version of the of a, ofa charger, is actually an
actual charger because it'sactually pushing direct current.
So that's DC directly into thebattery.
(36:59):
So there's no conversion needed, it's just pumping it in there,
and that's also why you can getmuch higher speeds, what you
can have, much higher voltage aswell, as you know just all that
good stuff.
And so I guess you know mythought, my, my big, one of my
(37:21):
big questions to you is is likehearing this type of news that
supercharging, you know a lot,doesn't make or makes a
negligible difference when itcomes to battery degradation
than it did, than it does tojust you know, like I don't know
how to do half and half or evenjust barely using superchargers
(37:44):
, Does this kind of?
What's your thought process onthis whole process, on this
whole thing?
Speaker 1 (37:51):
I find it amazing.
I mean, I think that you knowyou have to testify to the
advancements of batterytechnology that should have,
that should be approached withan open mind and be expected
over the next 10 to 15 years.
You know, as we you know,dennis and I have debated this
on this podcast whether this istruly the set in stone future of
(38:12):
automobiles, just due to otherinvestments and other technology
that we've seen.
But regardless of that, I meanto make it so it can last just
as long, but you're like good todrive in 20 minutes.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
If you're low on charge from your house.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
you have to have your house wired differently, Right?
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Or no, no, no.
I mean, you're not going to getsupercharger speeds for sure,
yeah, at your home, but but youcan get level two charging,
which is still significantlyfaster than if I would have just
plugged directly into, like mywall outlet, and so you would.
You would wire your, you wouldlike chain, you would create or
(39:04):
add a plug, something similar tolike a NEMA, nema five, or was
it 15, 15, 20, something I can'tremember right now, my brain is
blanking, but it's essentiallylike the same plug that you
would use for like a dryer.
You could essentially just addthat into wherever you're
(39:27):
parking your vehicle and thenplug it in there, and that's way
faster than than the, you know,wall plug.
Yeah 240 volt.
Right, yeah, yep, yeah, 240volts, 30 amps usually.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Okay, gotcha, yeah, you know, it's just impressive,
it really is, and the fact thatthat that's even a possibility,
man, it's just amazing.
But also to make it so you cando that from your home and be
like, hey, man, I'm good to go.
(40:03):
You know it's not having anymore effect on my battery either
, right, as it would forsupercharging.
So tell me like and maybe justexplain to the audience too, how
fast would that superchargingbe done?
You know, yeah, with that, withthat rolling, is it like a five
minute charge or what is it?
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Well, so sorry.
So all it's really saying isfor the article.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Let me, let me, sorry , let me stop you real fast.
Sorry, you mentioned phase two,right?
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Yeah, phase two charging, or there it's just
level two.
So there's three differentcharging states.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Level two right.
So level two you can charge.
In what?
20 minutes.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
No, no, no, no, it's, it's much longer than that.
So.
So level one is super duperslow.
So that's like if I plug intothe wall, right, so that's going
to be, for instance, here at myapartment, I'm plugging
directly into the into like awall out in my garage and I will
get about 20% charge and maybea span of like, let's think,
(41:14):
maybe 10 hours.
So super slow, right, yeah, um,a level two charger would get
you somewhere in the ballpark of, say you're at 20%.
It'll get you all the way up tosay you're charging up to 90%
and maybe around six to sevenhours.
(41:36):
Wow, so significantly fasterthan a level one.
And then a level three chargerwhich is your DC fast chargers.
Right, those are your superchargers.
I have to say DC fast chargersbecause super chargers are is a
brand technically, but if youwere to go over to any other EVs
(41:57):
that aren't using the Teslasupercharger network, they have
DC fast charging which issupplied from a via various
amount of different chargingmanufacturers or whatever like
that.
So, like Electrify, america,chargepoint, evgo, those are
(42:18):
some of the you know big ones,but that now that is where
you're looking at those 20minute times, right, those,
those 10, those 20 minute, 15minute, depending on how fast
that charger is.
Some of EVs that are thatcharge at a much higher voltage
(42:39):
than Tesla.
So, for instance, like theIonic five, if it's at 20% and
it goes to a DC fast chargerthat is able to do a maximum of
maximum of like 350 Watts, right, if it's able to get that the
predicted charge time from 20,from 20% actually I think it's
(43:03):
lower than 20%, I think it'slike 10% to 80% is like 18
minutes.
So you know, insanely fast,right, you plug in, done right.
Okay, enough time for you,especially if you're going on
like a long road trip.
You can go to like a gasstation and you know, get
(43:24):
whatever you need, get back intoyour car and then you're
essentially almost finishedcharging and then you can leave
again.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
So okay, Well, that's good to know because I know
I've experienced some prettyfast stuff with you man which
has been absolutely amazing, youknow.
So that's my bad for notunderstanding it clearly.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
No, that's no, it's perfectly understandable.
I mean, it's EVs are.
It's one of those things thatit makes sense once you're in it
.
But you know, from the outsidelooking at it it's a little bit
confusing, and I think that isalso a part of the fears that
you know we were talking aboutthe very beginning that a lot of
(44:05):
people have is that it's like,oh man, it's going to take so
long to charge.
But I had that person therequite a bit and I just think
it's a really good feeling thatthe way he really… yeah, Ok, I
liked your accent a lot.
Alright, In my time that I'veowned an EV, I find that, more
than not, you will not bewaiting on a car.
(44:26):
I think a lot of people forgetthe thought process of, or don't
understand or think of.
I think a lot of people stillthink of EVs in the same regard
as they're thinking of theirgas-powered car, where I'm going
to go to a pump and then I'mgoing to fill it up and then I'm
going to go.
Sure, that has happened on, say, a road trip or something like
(44:50):
that, but in most cases you'regoing to plug your car in at
night at home, charge up.
It's essentially like you havea gas station at home.
Right, you charge up, you go tosleep, you come back to your
car, you're fully charged, youhave a full tank of gas in a
different way and then you go.
(45:11):
Right.
This study makes it even nicerbecause, with this proves and
this was done over a decentamount of time and it was
sampled from I originallythought it was like 20,000, but
it was 12,500 Tesla vehicleswhere they were gathering this
(45:36):
data this is nice because, again, I think that was another thing
that a lot of EV owners have isthat you want to make sure that
you have the lowest amount ofbattery degradation.
So, again, the amount of rangemaximum range you'll have as
time goes on will slowlydecrease, like any battery, and
(45:56):
so a lot of EV owners were veryscared of doing a lot of
supercharging because that putsa lot of stress on the battery.
The more stress they get fromthe battery, the more resistant
it resistance it slowly startsto create, which leads to higher
amounts of battery degradation.
That's the simplest way tothink of it.
(46:20):
Same reason why most EV ownersaren't recommended to charge all
the way to 100%.
You're usually going to chargesomewhere around 90% to 80%
battery, unless you're going ona long road trip, because of the
amount of stress that it putson the battery, Same as when
(46:40):
you're plugging in your phone.
You plug in your phone.
You can plug it into thefastest charger you want.
It'll jump up to 70% and thenit gets real slow.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yes, because it's so quick.
So monitoring how muchelectricity comes into the
battery.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Correct.
Yes, because since it's nearlyfull, it can only take in so
many electrons.
It can't take in as many as itcould before.
Yes, right, so yes, I feel likethis just opens up another
world for EV owners, as well aspotential EV owners, to be able
(47:22):
to fully take advantage of thecar, the vehicle.
I think I was speaking to oneof my coworkers who also
recently purchased a Tesla andhe was saying he's like you know
, all of this has just been kindof slowly telling me like I can
(47:46):
just drive my car, like I don'thave to really worry as much as
I thought I had to, I justdrive my car and then
everything's good.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Like you know, yeah, but you have to pull.
So do you think this is my nextquestion really that that
charging capability of doingthose super fast chargers, will
become more accessible forhomeowners and stuff like that
in the near future, like or inthe coming years?
You know the thing I'm thinkingabout, right, when electric
(48:21):
cars start rolling out.
They talked about I forget whatthe title of this is called,
but you know, oh, inductivecharging yes, so you can.
That would be a heavy installrate.
I just want to warn people.
But you could have where youjust drive your car over and
it's through the concretecharging, the battery of your
(48:42):
car right under here, and thatcould go at a level that reaches
level three charging likeyou're talking about you know, I
don't.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
honestly, I don't think so, and I'll explain the
reason why.
It's because the problem theinductive charging is cool, but
I think it's more of a coolconcept because you're losing a
lot of.
It's similar because it'sessentially just like wireless
charging, right, wirelesscharging for your phone or
(49:13):
anything like that.
The issue that I have with thatis that, one, your house isn't
going to be wired to be able todeliver that amount of
electricity.
Not like that You'd have tohave like a whole.
There'd be like a wholedifferent thing that you'd have
to do.
But two, there's just so muchloss of energy that would happen
(49:38):
within that transference,within heat, from heat as well
as as well as just you know, ofcourse energy not being
everywhere.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Energy's really just carrying it away.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Yeah, exactly.
So you're just losing a lot ofenergy and you would be pushing
out more energy than you'reactually receiving, so I don't
think it would actually makesense.
Honestly, it would be cool, andI can see it for slower
applications right, I could seesomething similar to where,
(50:13):
instead of in parking lot havinga whole bunch of like EV
chargers right, it's just EVparking spots you literally park
in there and then boom, you'regood to go.
I could see something like that.
Right, it can be a nice slowtrickle charger.
It doesn't have to put out ahuge amount of power and it's
just topping you up a little bit, right?
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Well, and you know also, if you have equipment
that's entirely electric, right,like a blow or a lawn mower,
those kind of things, you canset it over a panel in your
garage and it just charges rightback up.
That's a great way to make useof it, just like you do with
your phones currently, you know,like some of your phones.
So yeah, that's interesting.
(50:55):
So then I guess my nextquestion would be I know we
might be deviating a little bit,but does that leave the level
three charging for maininstitutions to sell on the road
you?
Speaker 2 (51:10):
know how.
So what do you mean by sell?
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Well, so rather than you being able to install it in
your house, you have to makesure that you have to go, just
kind of like how you go to gasstations, right?
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Is that as a profit potential?
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, it's always been like that
.
Any super fast DC charging isjust because of the
infrastructure of it.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
Well, that's what it is.
If it will stay that way, right.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah, I think so.
I think that's just going to bea regular thing.
I think it'll be just like gasstations as it is now.
I think chargers willeventually become synonymous and
have the same, you know,interfaces as regular gas
station pumps or whatever likethat is just.
It'll be a little bit slower.
I do think there are a couple ofunforeseen things that we need
(52:01):
to work out, one of which Ithink a lot of people aren't
really thinking about, or atleast talking about I think, or
I don't see a lot of, andhappily we haven't had to deal
with that much of it.
But I think, using DC chargers,they, while they are relatively
(52:22):
fast, they're fast but I dothink there can be something
like a safety concern because,similar to like, if you're at a
pump, like a gas station pump,but at least within the gas
station pumps, you will usuallyfinish filling up within the
(52:46):
five to six minute range orsomething like that, where EVs
is a little bit longer.
So there is a possibility ofmore problematic crimes or
whatever like that to happen.
So I do think that is somethingto think about and I think it's
(53:12):
something that hasn't reallybeen brought up just because
right now we haven't had toworry too much about it, but I
do think it is something that asEVs become more and more
prevalent, more people or weneed to probably find better
ways to kind of secure that kindof stuff.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
I feel that, man, yeah, I think that that's a good
way to look at that.
And that's actually somethingI've been wondering about for a
little while is how that willall work out, because, for a
reason, there's an opportunitythere to really gain money off
this stuff, just like ExxonMobiland those kind of companies do.
(53:58):
And, by the way, I read thisthing, bro, that ExxonMobil has
been lying about how it'schanging its focus, when really,
behind the scenes, it's beenrolling out a huge rollout to
keep people buying gas.
(54:18):
Yeah, I don't fully know whatthat looks like or what that
means for the future, but youhave to believe that with those
type of companies, there's goingto be a battle, you know.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Yeah, yeah, you know what I can.
Going back to some of the stuffthat we've talked about before,
I can easily see them being oneof the bigger pushers of
alternative or synthetic fuels.
Yeah, because, again, thatkeeps people in gas powered
(54:52):
vehicles that are usingsomething that maybe they create
, or even requires the stuffthat they create or they make,
like oil or something similar tothat, to continue to keep them
in those vehicles for a longhaul.
(55:14):
So I can see that.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , and that's going to be kind of
a big thing, right it's a fightfor that.
Well, man, I was thinking.
So it's just interesting totalk about how our advancements
in technology right, they justbring this like dramatization,
(55:38):
or really this big debate overthe future of what they're used
for.
You have to be a lot morebelieving in favor of what
electric vehicles would be usedfor, yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
I think the electrification future is
probably most likely going to beour biggest thing, I think you
know, just looking at a lot ofthe things that we have to do
for climate change, as well as alot of the new possibilities
that renewable energies provide.
(56:19):
I think they do.
They, of course, provide theirown challenges, but I think they
provide a lot more upsides thanthey do, than they have
beforehand.
So I do think that is somethingto think about too.
Speaker 1 (56:37):
Yeah, I completely agree.
Why else did you?
I wanted to check in, whereelse did you want to lead this,
this topic, bro?
Speaker 2 (56:44):
Yeah, the last thing that I really wanted to talk
about, too, about this, is thatthis also it's something that
I've talked about multiple timesbefore and in some ways, I
still kind of stand by it, but Ido think that this article
helps lead a little bit morecontext in which.
(57:11):
A little bit more context whenit comes to like other things
Sorry, my brain was trying to gothrough so with this lower
degradation that you get fromusing a supercharger or
something similar to that, whatthat tells me and it's something
that I've been seeing I'm asuper nerd, so I love to like
(57:34):
jump on car forms and all sortsof other things whenever I get a
new car or something like thatand get to talk to other people
who have.
You know, whatever the car isthat I have and that was one
thing that I kept hearing, andfor a long time, just because of
the information that I haveknown before this article right
(57:56):
is that I had started to seemore and more people who live in
apartments getting EVs and andcharging those EVs solely at
superchargers not charging themanywhere else, but getting those
EVs and charging them solely atsuperchargers and that is their
only means of charging their,their, their electric vehicle.
(58:18):
And that or sorry.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
Why is that their only means?
Speaker 2 (58:23):
Because they don't have a a way, you know, if
they're not someone like, forinstance, me I live in an
apartment and I charge my EV andI purchased a garage right a
garage that's not attached to myapartment unit but is a part in
(58:43):
my apartment community.
I have in a garage, I parked mycar there and I can plug it in.
Some.
If someone decides that theydon't want to do that, they
don't want to or they can'tafford to buy a garage or
there's not a garage availablein their community, you know
(59:03):
their only other means ofsuperchar or their only other
means of charging their vehicleis to supercharge it and in some
ways that kind of some wayskind of takes away some of the
advantages of owning an EV.
But in some ways it doesn'tright.
You're at that point.
You're just treating the EVlike a gas powered vehicle and
(59:27):
you're still probably coming outat a much cheaper, at a much
cheaper rate than you would toto fill up your own gas powered
vehicle.
Actually, I think I remember oneof my same co-worker that I had
talked to before.
He also lives in an apartmentand he said he went to the
(59:50):
supercharger super late at nightbecause the charging, the.
There's the way Tesla does.
It is like there's a surgecharging essentially.
So it's essentially during likehigh rush hour charge, high
times where more energy is beingused, they up the prices to try
(01:00:12):
to lower the amount of peoplewho are using them.
So he said he was at like 20%.
He went to the supercharger andcharged all the way up to 90%
and he was able to get to thatpoint with I think that's it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Bless you.
Sorry about that he's dabbingon.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Bless you, bro, I am, I am.
Oh, thank you, but essentiallyhe was able to get all the way
up to 100% from 20% with forlike A-bucks.
Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Wow, Wow, that's amazing.
I mean, that's what peopledon't understand.
You know what I mean.
They all understand howeffective that is.
I mean, even when you'replaying paying supercharge,
territory pricing right.
Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, well, it's because he wascharging it, you know, in
off-time, off busy times, and sohe was able to Sorry, it was
non-busy times and so he got amuch cheaper charging rate and,
yeah, he got to fill up for awhole A-bucks, which is kind of
(01:01:31):
crazy, right, you know, youcan't get that with gas not at
all.
And so what I was really tryingto say throughout this whole
process is that I think thiskind of opens it up more to
people, for EV owners, for moreEV owners to show up in
(01:01:52):
apartment communities, because Ihave always said and in some
ways, like I said, I still kindof say this, but I have always
said that it, the entry, thebarrier to entry, is not just
the price, it is therequirements in some ways, in
some forms or fashion, to haveto that you, that, in some ways,
(01:02:17):
you need to properly use right.
And so that is where the wholeI stated this once before where,
sure, once you get past theprice, you still need to kind of
almost have a house because youget the advantage of being able
(01:02:37):
to charge it home.
You have a more stable chargingenvironment rather than having
to do the chaos I felt like atthe time was more chaos charging
of being able to go to asupercharger and having to
charge up and all sorts of otherstuff.
And so now that this shows thatthere's little to no
(01:02:59):
degradation, or at leastnegligible degradation, then
your average degradation, Ishould really say, from
supercharging, that tells methat more people, especially now
that Teslas are getting cheaperright, you can get a used Tesla
for I've seen some for 20 grandor not 20 grand, but it's
(01:03:23):
closer to like 27 grand, 2079.
Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, which isinsane, right, as well as the
tax incentives that are outthere, it makes it even more and
more compelling for anybody tobuy an EV, and so that is one
(01:03:45):
thing that I feel is reallyreally big about this study and
why it's so important is because, again, it's like I was telling
, like I said earlier, you knowyou can get an EV with all the
other things that you can get,but you can get an EV with all
the other things that you canget.
You know you can get an EV withall the advantages and just
(01:04:05):
drive it and not have to work somuch about like this or that or
do I need to replace my batteryor whatever, like that Plus you
have.
There is a certain level ofease of mind that you get
because you don't have to worryabout looking at.
When it comes to maintenancewise, there's like two things
(01:04:26):
that I need to worry about forthe most part, which is brake
pads and tires.
But even brake pads aren'tsomething that I'm going to be
charging or I'm going to bechanging a lot it's super rare.
And tires is something, butthat is a little bit more
frequent but it's not that bad.
But when it comes to likethinking about road trips,
(01:04:50):
that's even with a cast poweredvehicle you want to make sure
all your fluids are top-top.
You make sure your coolant'sgood.
You want to make sure your oilis good.
You want to make sure, if youhaven't changed your oil, change
that oil.
Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
You want to make sure that everything looks good and
pristine and you know, as an EV,no, I mean that's just a good
point, I mean it's not different, it's just the focus is
different, you know what I mean.
And, honestly, more effectiveand less time consuming.
Really, yeah, you know.
(01:05:25):
Yeah, I mean it cut you offwith that.
No, no, you're good, but youknow.
One thing I was thinking too isthat you know, I think people
often get caught up in.
If I'm buying an electric car,it's this much more Oftentimes
it is.
You just mentioned how, likeused to, tesla's, for example,
(01:05:45):
are becoming more affordable,but it's hard for me outside
looking in man.
But if you really like, do themath and find out how affordable
charging is or could be andbank on the fact that it's
becoming more accessible, andthen you say, ok, I get a child,
or I get a child tax credit,but a car tax credit back by buy
(01:06:10):
this right.
What I think it doesn't workfor is people that keep cars
short term right.
But if you keep your cars longterm, it can end up either
averaging out and being betterfor the environment or being
cheap in the long run.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
Yeah, yeah, no, you're right, you're right.
Yeah, being able to that'sbecoming a growing trend, you
know.
Yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, I think you're, Ithink you're completely right, I
think it's it's something shortterm.
It's not super great, but Ithink for sure if you're, if
(01:06:49):
you're in the market, but I feellike your short term car buyers
usually aren't actually buyingtheir cars or leasing their cars
, so that's a little bit Right.
Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
Exactly, exactly, like a three year lease or
something like that For sure.
Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
Exactly, exactly.
But yeah, I mean if you're, ifyou're buying a car for a long
time, right, you know, like Iknow, me and my family, we we
tend to be more people who, youknow, we drive the car until the
tires fall off, is what weusually say.
You know, if you're, if you'rethat type of car buyer, then I
(01:07:23):
think EVs, you know, make a hugeamount of sense and you're,
you're saving quite a bit, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
So yeah, well, you know you're not.
Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Yeah, I know, I know, and let's see.
I'm sure that there's a lot ofother people watching right now
that feel the exact same way.
So if you feel the exact sameway, let us know in the comments
, man.
But yeah, no, it definitely isone of those things.
And, look, this is a change forme.
Those people have watched theshow for a long time.
They've known that this issomething I've learned and,
(01:07:57):
quite honestly, something I'veexperienced thanks to you, man.
You've been great at showing meand expanding my knowledge on
this firsthand, and it's gettingto a point where, depending on
what you're looking at probablynot for me with my needs or
wants right now, but dependingon what you're looking at if you
want a car that could haul agood amount of people and be
(01:08:18):
good on the environment and beaffordable in the long haul,
you'd want to start looking atelectric vehicles, man,
especially if the gas is goingto go up to three, seventy nine
again.
Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
You know, yeah, see, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
I had.
You know what's really funnyabout that?
I don't even look at gas pricesanymore.
Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Right, it's kind of fine to think about, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Gas stations.
I barely go to those.
I go to those to, like, cleanmy windshield or, I don't know,
get something.
Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
Oh, really Really.
That's why it's a convenientstore for Dennis and it is a
convenient store for me.
Yeah, I know, I know, but see,that's the thing I was thinking
of earlier when we were talkingabout keeping those
supercharging abilities only atDifferent locations.
Excuse me, oh, it is justsimply, I would say, to build
(01:09:13):
those stores around them andentice people to come in and buy
stuff from them.
Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
Yeah, yeah, are you all right?
Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Yeah, I think that's.
I think that's the not toodistant future, man.
Honestly Well, I don't know ifyou have anything more to add,
man, I think we really kickedthis in the tail.
I think so too man.
Two completely neurodivergenttopics and we wrapped them up
together with a little chocolate, a little caramel oh man,
(01:09:42):
snickers, you know what I'msaying.
Mm, hmm, so thank you guys somuch for tuning in.
We really appreciate it.
Please let us know what youthink of this episode by leaving
a rating or a view.
Jump on the live stream with usevery Thursday, give us a
follow and make sure you getthose notifications so you can
jump in and discuss with us inreal time and check out our shop
(01:10:03):
.
If you want to buy any coolcatch up podcast, merch, we know
you'll love it.
I know firsthand which is notsomething you typically brag
about with your own merch, butyou'll love it.
So, with that said, man, Ithink we have had a good one.
I think we have had a good one.
Thank you guys.
So much for listening.
Thank you for watching.
(01:10:24):
I will catch up with you nextweek.
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