December 29, 2025 • 11 mins
A storm can break a ship, but it can’t sink a calling. We follow Paul on his hard road to Rome—chained, cold, and seasick—while a nor’easter shreds the rigging and fear narrows every horizon. In the middle of chaos, he does something unexpected: he gives thanks, breaks bread, and promises that lives will be spared even if the vessel won’t be. That moment at sea reframes everything that follows, from a crash on a Maltese sandbar to an act of mercy by a Roman centurion who chooses trust over protocol.
From there, the map widens. We explore why Rome matters—not as a postcard of ruins, but as the caput mundi, the head of the world where roads, laws, and languages converge. Luke’s great arc comes into focus: Jesus moves from Nazareth to Jerusalem; the Church moves from Jerusalem to Rome. Along the way, we look at how Peter and Paul’s witness outlasted marble, how obelisks crowned with crosses tell of a city’s slow conversion, and how the “unconquered sun” yields to the unconquered Son. Rome becomes a launchpad for mission, not because it is easy, but because it sits at the crossroads where news travels far and fast.
We speak candidly about endurance under pressure, using Paul’s story as a pattern for our own: act with courage when conditions are poor, worship when the waves rise, and see authority not only as threat but as an audience for truth. The Acts of the Apostles might close in Rome, but the action continues anywhere people choose hope over fear and service over survival. If you’re navigating your own storm, this conversation offers a compass—prophecy grounded in reality, mercy amid protocol, and a vision big enough to hold both wreckage and renewal.
Enjoyed the conversation? Follow, like, and subscribe, then share this episode with someone who could use steady footing in rough waters. Your review helps others find the show.
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Jordan Whiteko, Father Andrew Hamilton, Father Christopher Pujol, Vincent Reilly, Cliff Gorski, John Zylka, Sarah Hartner
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
You're listening to the Catholic Active Podcast.
We discussed the act that Jesusperformed that stunned his
disciples.
Great to be back, Jordan.
SPEAKER_00 (00:09):
You don't know us by now, you're never gonna know.
SPEAKER_01 (00:12):
I'm Jordan Waco here with Father Hamilton and Father
Poojal.
We made it, we made it to 12.
SPEAKER_02 (00:18):
It's been a long time coming, all these weeks of
recording.
So Paul arrives in Rome.
SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
So we're talking about the storms and salvation.
Paul is shipwrecked yetunshaken.
SPEAKER_02 (00:29):
Clever title, Jordan.
SPEAKER_01 (00:31):
Thanks.
So he arrives in Rome, and whatis the significance?
Where are we?
Tell me where we are in this.
SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
First of all, Paul is in custody.
So he's being transported toRome for basically for
sentencing.
SPEAKER_00 (00:44):
So there's a lot that goes on before he gets to
Rome there with the shipwreckand so forth.
As they're on the seas, there'sa nor'easter and essentially
like a hurricane for a few days,and they're just being tossed
around in this thing.
So that would be Paul, as wellas the others that are there
with him that are imprisoned,uh, as well as the soldiers that
(01:05):
are with them.
SPEAKER_02 (01:07):
Imagine being in a in a hurricane on one of these
ancient vessels.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
It's not a fun journey for him.
He is probably even less funthan the actual you know sailors
because he's a prisoner.
SPEAKER_00 (01:19):
This wasn't like going on a uh a princess cruise.
SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
I was gonna say it's not the Royal Caribbean of your
dreams, you know, even it's notall inclusive, not a carnival
cruise.
Oh, nobody wants to go on thosethese days.
SPEAKER_00 (01:32):
But uh, so yeah, there would have been a lot of
suffering and uh you know,you're cold, you're wet, you're
constantly sick.
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
In his letters uh to Corinthians, he says that he was
shipwrecked three times andspent a full day and night
floating on the water.
So he was shipwrecked, he'sfloating on the water.
Who scoops him back up?
SPEAKER_02 (01:54):
Not the Coast Guard.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
So they rescued him and then he just went back onto
a boat.
SPEAKER_02 (01:59):
Well, they had to continue the journey.
As we're looking at these threeshipwrecks of St.
Paul, there's one that reallystands out as the most famous
shipwreck when he and thepassengers wreck onto a sandbar,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
Yeah, so Paul is being escorted at this point by
Roman guards, and he's beingtaken with others, rounded up,
and they're being taken to Rometo be judged there.
So Paul's in custody.
Paul's in custody.
Yeah, he's not just freelysailing around at this point.
Yeah.
And so as they're going, there'sa storm that kicks up and it
continues uh for uh a fair time,and they're throwing things over
(02:36):
the ship walls, and they'retrying to figure out how they
can anchor themselves, and it'scomplete chaos.
Paul is prophesying about howthey will be okay, even though
the ship will eventually bedestroyed.
And so, as they spend these uhcouple weeks kind of just out in
the Adriatic and confused,eventually there's a celebration
of the Eucharist by Saint Paul.
(02:58):
On board the Mass, yeah, there.
Uh Mass on the seas there,walking on water.
And then from there, Mass oncruise ships.
Yeah, after that, uh he was thefirst cruise ship chaplain.
Yeah, patron saint of it.
Yeah, but after that, then thatcelebration of the Eucharist,
they actually shipwreck into asandbar, and then they find
(03:18):
themselves on the island ofMalta until eventually then uh
they get things together andthen they're taken back to Rome.
But the centurion, who's theleader of this entire crew that
is imprisoning Paul and andescorting him towards Rome, he
so respects Paul and his abilityto prophesy about things of the
future and these signs andwonders that we talked about.
(03:42):
Right.
That he spares the lives of theprisoners.
At this time, it would have beencommon if things are going
poorly on a mission like that,you just kill all the prisoners
and then you move on.
And so Paul saves other people'slives for the time being by the
great wonders worked throughhim.
SPEAKER_01 (03:57):
Now, does he say to save the other prisoners and he
like will go with them, or why?
SPEAKER_02 (04:03):
So, in the midst of his troubles, he still continues
to spread the gospel in themidst of a hostile world.
SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
So the Acts of the Apostles ends in Rome, but how
does the church then develop inRome?
SPEAKER_00 (04:14):
Well, you have a living apostle there who's there
for a couple years before whatbecomes his eventual death, and
so people start to form aroundthat.
And you can think of Paulalready being a well-traveled
man, that he has this greatmissionary tradition behind him
at this point, all these storiesand how God has provided for
him.
He continues to spread thegospel through charisma, right?
(04:37):
Through his own life, how he'sbeen victorious even over
shipwreck, being stoned, kickedout of places, ridiculed,
imprisoned.
And so he's a living witness ofthe gospel.
To the gospel.
SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
In Luke's gospel, he shows the movement of Jesus from
Nazareth to Jerusalem, thecenter of the Jewish world.
And then in the Acts of theApostles, shows the movement of
the church from Jerusalem toRome, which is the center of the
entire world.
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
So what does that mean?
We see uh a transition fromwhere Jesus was, which is around
Jerusalem, Galilee, Judea, andso forth.
Now, as the church continues togrow from its locus point there
of Jerusalem, we have all thesedifferent communities that are
set up by St.
Paul, and now he's going towardsRome.
(05:27):
Likewise, Peter will later findhimself in Rome as well.
And what we see there is theykind of have to go to the center
of the world at that point.
Jerusalem, of course, animportant historic city for the
Jewish people and so forth, butreally at this time, who
controls Jerusalem and thesesurrounding regions and areas?
Well, the great empire of Rome.
SPEAKER_02 (05:48):
And so this is And that's why Rome is known as
Caput Mundi, the head of thehead of the world, because it's
there where not only ancienttimes are held in such great
esteem, and where this ancientgovernance of ancient Rome was
held, but now the church isgoverned there for the whole
(06:12):
world.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
So now I know you both have been to Rome, but you
were just there, Father Chris.
I was so why is Rome?
SPEAKER_02 (06:21):
My father and I both made pilgrimages this year for
the Jubilee, and then I had theopportunity to head back a
couple weeks ago.
SPEAKER_01 (06:28):
So why is Rome so special to you that you went
right after you came back?
SPEAKER_02 (06:32):
You decide to well, it's always a good time.
There's always there's no excuseneeded to go to Rome.
But for me, I think Romerepresents to us the triumph of
Christianity over the paganworld.
So you have these ancientreligions, even from Greece, you
know, that found their way toRome because as the empire
(06:54):
spread, they took what was good,what they liked, and brought it
back.
But Rome really is home not onlyto us as Catholic Christians,
but to these great apostles,Peter and Paul.
And so everywhere you go inRome, there's always images of
Peter and Paul.
They're the apostles of Rome.
And Rome allows us to see thefruits of their labor, see the
(07:20):
places of their martyrdom, seethe tools of their martyrdom.
We can see the change of SaintPeter, we can see the change of
Saint Paul with St.
Paul outside the walls.
And we also, more importantly,can go to their tombs.
And it's at their tombs where wethe church often says we go to
the threshold of the apostles.
And it's a great reminder thatwe too are to be sent, we are to
(07:44):
be apostles to the world today.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
And Rome was a a city of power, of authority, and
of victory.
You think about the the greattriumphal arch of Constantine
that's next to the Colosseum.
You think of all the greatmonuments that are there.
And so at the end of theirlives, Paul and Peter bring the
real savior of the world toRome, which is Jesus, with them
(08:10):
in the preaching of theirmessage.
Not the Roman Emperor, thatthere's all this divine worship
of the Roman Emperor as agod-like figure, but the one
true God, the true son of God,which is Jesus, not Augustus or
Caesar.
And so what you see from thereis that Rome is really the
epicenter of everything.
At this time, the landmass ofRome reaching to the east and to
(08:33):
the west, it becomes the placefrom which they can spread the
gospel, and then it goes out tothe very far-reaching corners of
the world, and you start seeingthe planting of the seed of the
gospel, not just in theMediterranean region, but the
whole way across up to Englandeventually, and the whole way
over towards Asia and into theEast.
SPEAKER_02 (08:52):
And as it moved into Spain, and then with you know
the conquistadors and thosegreat discoverers, you know,
they're bringing the faith withthem.
But in Rome, too, I think what'sso interesting is you see the
that that worship of the soulinvictus, the unconquered son,
replaced with the worship of thetrue son of God.
(09:14):
And so it's still this wholecompletion, right?
So we have the completionhappening from the Old Testament
to the New Testament, and nowwe're even seeing in pagan
worship it coming to a newunderstanding and replacement
with true Christian worship andtrue worship of God.
And you see that most perfectlyin the different obelisks around
(09:36):
Rome.
They were brought there fromancient Egypt, and they're
covered in hieroglyphs and youknow, we would say Egyptian
spells, whatever those may be.
But now each and every one ofthem are topped with a cross to
show that Christ's crossconquers all things.
SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
And they would mark the most important stational
churches of Rome where peoplewould make pilgrimage to Rome to
see the ancient places of whereSaint Peter and Paul gave their
lives, the spreading of thegospel by their blood.
So Rome's so important for usbecause it just had this entire
structure and system by whichthe word of God could spread
(10:15):
through and then proliferate,multiply.
And so it was really the bestmissionary effort possible that
Paul and Peter could do, eventhough Paul, for example, as
we're talking about, is broughtthere by Roman authorities to be
judged there.
SPEAKER_02 (10:31):
And it reminds us too, I think, that it's these
difficulties that he faced thatPeter will face, and that all
the early Christians will facein Rome, as many of them go to
their deaths.
You know, the Acts of theApostles as it's written might
end with their time in Rome, butthe Acts continue because
(10:51):
Christians always are acting inthe person and in the name of
Christ.
SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
Thanks for listening to the Catholic Accent Podcast.
Don't forget to follow, like,and subscribe to our show.
Any closing remarks?
Bye.
As they say not as they say no,we're wrecked.
We're shipwrecked.
You're listening to the Catholic Active Podcast.
We discussed the act that Jesusperformed that stunned his
disciples.
Great to be back, Jordan.
SPEAKER_00 (00:09):
You don't know us by now, you're never gonna know.
SPEAKER_01 (00:12):
I'm Jordan Waco here with Father Hamilton and Father
Poojal.
We made it, we made it to 12.
SPEAKER_02 (00:18):
It's been a long time coming, all these weeks of
recording.
So Paul arrives in Rome.
SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
So we're talking about the storms and salvation.
Paul is shipwrecked yetunshaken.
SPEAKER_02 (00:29):
Clever title, Jordan.
SPEAKER_01 (00:31):
Thanks.
So he arrives in Rome, and whatis the significance?
Where are we?
Tell me where we are in this.
SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
First of all, Paul is in custody.
So he's being transported toRome for basically for
sentencing.
SPEAKER_00 (00:44):
So there's a lot that goes on before he gets to
Rome there with the shipwreckand so forth.
As they're on the seas, there'sa nor'easter and essentially
like a hurricane for a few days,and they're just being tossed
around in this thing.
So that would be Paul, as wellas the others that are there
with him that are imprisoned,uh, as well as the soldiers that
(01:05):
are with them.
SPEAKER_02 (01:07):
Imagine being in a in a hurricane on one of these
ancient vessels.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
It's not a fun journey for him.
He is probably even less funthan the actual you know sailors
because he's a prisoner.
SPEAKER_00 (01:19):
This wasn't like going on a uh a princess cruise.
SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
I was gonna say it's not the Royal Caribbean of your
dreams, you know, even it's notall inclusive, not a carnival
cruise.
Oh, nobody wants to go on thosethese days.
SPEAKER_00 (01:32):
But uh, so yeah, there would have been a lot of
suffering and uh you know,you're cold, you're wet, you're
constantly sick.
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
In his letters uh to Corinthians, he says that he was
shipwrecked three times andspent a full day and night
floating on the water.
So he was shipwrecked, he'sfloating on the water.
Who scoops him back up?
SPEAKER_02 (01:54):
Not the Coast Guard.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
So they rescued him and then he just went back onto
a boat.
SPEAKER_02 (01:59):
Well, they had to continue the journey.
As we're looking at these threeshipwrecks of St.
Paul, there's one that reallystands out as the most famous
shipwreck when he and thepassengers wreck onto a sandbar,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
Yeah, so Paul is being escorted at this point by
Roman guards, and he's beingtaken with others, rounded up,
and they're being taken to Rometo be judged there.
So Paul's in custody.
Paul's in custody.
Yeah, he's not just freelysailing around at this point.
Yeah.
And so as they're going, there'sa storm that kicks up and it
continues uh for uh a fair time,and they're throwing things over
(02:36):
the ship walls, and they'retrying to figure out how they
can anchor themselves, and it'scomplete chaos.
Paul is prophesying about howthey will be okay, even though
the ship will eventually bedestroyed.
And so, as they spend these uhcouple weeks kind of just out in
the Adriatic and confused,eventually there's a celebration
of the Eucharist by Saint Paul.
(02:58):
On board the Mass, yeah, there.
Uh Mass on the seas there,walking on water.
And then from there, Mass oncruise ships.
Yeah, after that, uh he was thefirst cruise ship chaplain.
Yeah, patron saint of it.
Yeah, but after that, then thatcelebration of the Eucharist,
they actually shipwreck into asandbar, and then they find
(03:18):
themselves on the island ofMalta until eventually then uh
they get things together andthen they're taken back to Rome.
But the centurion, who's theleader of this entire crew that
is imprisoning Paul and andescorting him towards Rome, he
so respects Paul and his abilityto prophesy about things of the
future and these signs andwonders that we talked about.
(03:42):
Right.
That he spares the lives of theprisoners.
At this time, it would have beencommon if things are going
poorly on a mission like that,you just kill all the prisoners
and then you move on.
And so Paul saves other people'slives for the time being by the
great wonders worked throughhim.
SPEAKER_01 (03:57):
Now, does he say to save the other prisoners and he
like will go with them, or why?
SPEAKER_02 (04:03):
So, in the midst of his troubles, he still continues
to spread the gospel in themidst of a hostile world.
SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
So the Acts of the Apostles ends in Rome, but how
does the church then develop inRome?
SPEAKER_00 (04:14):
Well, you have a living apostle there who's there
for a couple years before whatbecomes his eventual death, and
so people start to form aroundthat.
And you can think of Paulalready being a well-traveled
man, that he has this greatmissionary tradition behind him
at this point, all these storiesand how God has provided for
him.
He continues to spread thegospel through charisma, right?
(04:37):
Through his own life, how he'sbeen victorious even over
shipwreck, being stoned, kickedout of places, ridiculed,
imprisoned.
And so he's a living witness ofthe gospel.
To the gospel.
SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
In Luke's gospel, he shows the movement of Jesus from
Nazareth to Jerusalem, thecenter of the Jewish world.
And then in the Acts of theApostles, shows the movement of
the church from Jerusalem toRome, which is the center of the
entire world.
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
So what does that mean?
We see uh a transition fromwhere Jesus was, which is around
Jerusalem, Galilee, Judea, andso forth.
Now, as the church continues togrow from its locus point there
of Jerusalem, we have all thesedifferent communities that are
set up by St.
Paul, and now he's going towardsRome.
(05:27):
Likewise, Peter will later findhimself in Rome as well.
And what we see there is theykind of have to go to the center
of the world at that point.
Jerusalem, of course, animportant historic city for the
Jewish people and so forth, butreally at this time, who
controls Jerusalem and thesesurrounding regions and areas?
Well, the great empire of Rome.
SPEAKER_02 (05:48):
And so this is And that's why Rome is known as
Caput Mundi, the head of thehead of the world, because it's
there where not only ancienttimes are held in such great
esteem, and where this ancientgovernance of ancient Rome was
held, but now the church isgoverned there for the whole
(06:12):
world.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
So now I know you both have been to Rome, but you
were just there, Father Chris.
I was so why is Rome?
SPEAKER_02 (06:21):
My father and I both made pilgrimages this year for
the Jubilee, and then I had theopportunity to head back a
couple weeks ago.
SPEAKER_01 (06:28):
So why is Rome so special to you that you went
right after you came back?
SPEAKER_02 (06:32):
You decide to well, it's always a good time.
There's always there's no excuseneeded to go to Rome.
But for me, I think Romerepresents to us the triumph of
Christianity over the paganworld.
So you have these ancientreligions, even from Greece, you
know, that found their way toRome because as the empire
(06:54):
spread, they took what was good,what they liked, and brought it
back.
But Rome really is home not onlyto us as Catholic Christians,
but to these great apostles,Peter and Paul.
And so everywhere you go inRome, there's always images of
Peter and Paul.
They're the apostles of Rome.
And Rome allows us to see thefruits of their labor, see the
(07:20):
places of their martyrdom, seethe tools of their martyrdom.
We can see the change of SaintPeter, we can see the change of
Saint Paul with St.
Paul outside the walls.
And we also, more importantly,can go to their tombs.
And it's at their tombs where wethe church often says we go to
the threshold of the apostles.
And it's a great reminder thatwe too are to be sent, we are to
(07:44):
be apostles to the world today.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
And Rome was a a city of power, of authority, and
of victory.
You think about the the greattriumphal arch of Constantine
that's next to the Colosseum.
You think of all the greatmonuments that are there.
And so at the end of theirlives, Paul and Peter bring the
real savior of the world toRome, which is Jesus, with them
(08:10):
in the preaching of theirmessage.
Not the Roman Emperor, thatthere's all this divine worship
of the Roman Emperor as agod-like figure, but the one
true God, the true son of God,which is Jesus, not Augustus or
Caesar.
And so what you see from thereis that Rome is really the
epicenter of everything.
At this time, the landmass ofRome reaching to the east and to
(08:33):
the west, it becomes the placefrom which they can spread the
gospel, and then it goes out tothe very far-reaching corners of
the world, and you start seeingthe planting of the seed of the
gospel, not just in theMediterranean region, but the
whole way across up to Englandeventually, and the whole way
over towards Asia and into theEast.
SPEAKER_02 (08:52):
And as it moved into Spain, and then with you know
the conquistadors and thosegreat discoverers, you know,
they're bringing the faith withthem.
But in Rome, too, I think what'sso interesting is you see the
that that worship of the soulinvictus, the unconquered son,
replaced with the worship of thetrue son of God.
(09:14):
And so it's still this wholecompletion, right?
So we have the completionhappening from the Old Testament
to the New Testament, and nowwe're even seeing in pagan
worship it coming to a newunderstanding and replacement
with true Christian worship andtrue worship of God.
And you see that most perfectlyin the different obelisks around
(09:36):
Rome.
They were brought there fromancient Egypt, and they're
covered in hieroglyphs and youknow, we would say Egyptian
spells, whatever those may be.
But now each and every one ofthem are topped with a cross to
show that Christ's crossconquers all things.
SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
And they would mark the most important stational
churches of Rome where peoplewould make pilgrimage to Rome to
see the ancient places of whereSaint Peter and Paul gave their
lives, the spreading of thegospel by their blood.
So Rome's so important for usbecause it just had this entire
structure and system by whichthe word of God could spread
(10:15):
through and then proliferate,multiply.
And so it was really the bestmissionary effort possible that
Paul and Peter could do, eventhough Paul, for example, as
we're talking about, is broughtthere by Roman authorities to be
judged there.
SPEAKER_02 (10:31):
And it reminds us too, I think, that it's these
difficulties that he faced thatPeter will face, and that all
the early Christians will facein Rome, as many of them go to
their deaths.
You know, the Acts of theApostles as it's written might
end with their time in Rome, butthe Acts continue because
(10:51):
Christians always are acting inthe person and in the name of
Christ.
SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
Thanks for listening to the Catholic Accent Podcast.
Don't forget to follow, like,and subscribe to our show.
Any closing remarks?
Bye.
As they say not as they say no,we're wrecked.
We're shipwrecked.
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