September 25, 2023 β’ 15 mins
Have you ever wondered what it would be like to walk in the shoes of Jesus' disciples, experiencing the shock, disbelief, and confusion they felt when Jesus declared his impending death? Imagine being in the midst of pagan rituals and child sacrifices in the ancient city of Caesarea Philippi, only to hear that your leader, Jesus, must journey to Jerusalem to face his end. This episode gives us a rich, historical immersion where we delve into the disciples' reactions, especially that of Peter's misguided attempt to thwart Jesus' mission. We paint a vivid picture of the city; from its ancient cave believed to be a dwelling place for spirits to the chilling rituals that took place.
Dare to step further into the shoes of the apostles in this episode as we examine their human reality and the rivalry among them, personified in the characters of Peter and Judas. We take a close look at Peter's audacity in declaring Jesus as the Christ and contrast it with Judas' despair symbolized by the crowing rooster. We also analyze the implications of Jesus' prediction concerning his journey to Jerusalem and the conditions it sets for discipleship in our lives today. Expect to be challenged, inspired, and perhaps even unsettled, as we journey through this riveting exploration of faith, humanity and divine purpose.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jordan (00:00):
You're listening to the Catholic Accent Podcast.
In this podcast, we discuss theacts and miracles that Jesus
performed that stunned hisdisciples.
I'm Jordan Waiko, along withFather Andrew Hamilton and
Father Christopher Pujol Jordan.
What are we talking about today?
Today's topic is the predictionof the passion.
Now Jesus tells his disciplesthat he must go to Jerusalem and
(00:20):
be killed.
So what do you think they werethinking?
If you were one of Jesus'disciples, what would your
reaction have been to this news?
Father Chris (00:28):
Oh why.
Or to be a little selfish, Ithink, oh, maybe I shouldn't go
along.
Father Andrew (00:33):
I'm going to sit this one out.
Father Chris (00:35):
Yeah, I'll meet you back in Nazareth.
I'll wait, but so where arethey?
Father Andrew (00:40):
at Jordan, you know.
Jordan (00:42):
No, you tell me All right.
Why don't you set the stage alittle bit?
Father Chris (00:44):
That sounds good.
Okay, we've been doing that forepisodes in a row now.
Yeah.
Father Andrew (00:48):
Caesarea Philippi .
Think of it.
Caesar, philip, philip theTetrarch names it after Caesar,
of course, which is the Romanemperor.
So it's not a Jewish town.
That's important to know.
It's a pagan city and so forth,and it's above Nazareth.
Now, talking about disciplesbeing stunned or the apostles
following Jesus, this was aplace that was known as a pagan
(01:10):
worship site of the God Pawn,specifically of the of a God,
goddess of fertility for thepagans.
And so immediately thedisciples would have said to
themselves why are we going toCaesarea Philippi?
So much so that it was commonthat there was a large
underground cave there that theywould actually sacrifice to the
(01:34):
God Pawn for healthy harvestand other things and fertility
and so on.
And what they would do is theywould actually throw first a
goat or a lamb into this largecave and then, depending upon
what came out of the cave bloodor whatnot they would accept and
see that maybe God, the GodPawn, had accepted this
(01:56):
sacrifice or rejected it Right.
Father Chris (01:57):
And so if it was a ?
Father Andrew (01:57):
rejection of the sacrifice.
The next thing that they turnedto not another animal, but a
child or a virgin that theywould then throw into the cave
and sacrifice to the God Pawn.
So this was a place that wasknown to be terrible.
Jewish people would not havewanted to go there, so the
disciples probably were thinkingwhat in the world?
Father Chris (02:18):
are we doing here?
Caesarea, philippi, turn around, we shouldn't be passing
through.
It's like driving through thoseparts of town.
You're like, ooh, maybe Ishouldn't be here right now.
And that had to be what theywere thinking this is not my
area.
And Jesus is just like trust me, it'll all be okay.
But then he begins to explainto them where they're going and
why, and that's what makes themall stop in their tracks.
Father Andrew (02:41):
And I think, bringing up from a previous
episode, what Father Chris hadsaid about Peter right when he
goes out onto the water, Peter'salways this one that wants to
jump ahead of Jesus and he'salways kind of putting his foot
in his mouth.
And so this is another instancewhere Peter does something
really good immediately beforethis prediction, and then he
gets rebuked by Jesus in thispassage.
(03:01):
So Jesus asks all of theapostles who do?
They say that I am?
Some say Elijah and prophet, orMoses, and so on.
But what does Peter say?
You're the Lord, you're the Sonof God, you're the living God,
right?
And so he proclaims him to bethe Messiah, the one that will
die for their sins.
And so Jesus says then to Peterwell, he changes his name Simon
(03:23):
Peter, just Peter.
You are the rock on which thechurch shall rest.
The gates of hell will notprevail against the church.
So he's told to be good andchanges his name.
Everything's really grand andso forth.
And then Jesus says I'm goingto Jerusalem to die.
Father Chris (03:39):
And.
Father Andrew (03:39):
Peter says God forbid it.
Jordan (03:43):
God's saying it.
All right, he's an obstacle.
Father Chris (03:47):
And everything stops.
And that's when Jesus you canalmost hear him stop, like that
footprint, just stop in the sand, a little bit of dust spins
around and he says get behind me, satan, you're an obstacle to
me.
And Peter had to be shaken inhis boots.
Father Andrew (04:05):
No, I don't want to undo what Father Christ has
said here, but this is the wayI'm going to say it was
explained to me in Caesarea ofPhilippi.
Normally the guides look up atthe big rock, face the cliff.
So it makes sense wheneverJesus says you are the rock,
because there's a bunch of bigrock face there.
But that cave that we weretalking about earlier would be
probably behind Jesus as he'sexplaining maybe this to Peter
(04:27):
in them.
Jordan (04:27):
How can Jesus still build his church on Peter when
he calls him Satan?
Father Andrew (04:32):
Well, he's basically in that moment.
The way that Peter is actuallyacting is a stumbling block to
the mission of God, in whichthat he's acting like how Satan
would do.
So Satan accuses.
And then we have another wordin Greek, diabolos, which is we
get the word devil from and thatmeans to cast apart, and so, in
some sense, what the devil doesto us is casts us apart from
(04:55):
the mission of God, apart fromGod, and then he creates a
stumbling block between us andsalvation.
And so what Peter's doing hereis trying to keep God back from
the redemptive work that he'scome to do.
So, literally, when he says,get behind me Satan, he's
telling him to go to where?
To, literally, the gates of thenetherworld, to hell, the place
(05:16):
where they sacrificed childrenand annergens and everything to
a false God, and there was abelief in the ancient world that
kind of spirits would rise upthrough these caves in the pagan
world and then come to dwell onthe earth.
Did you visit that cave?
Yeah, you can look down into it.
You can't go the whole way.
And there's niches built intothe rock cliff that you could
see.
That was like, at one point, atemple, and then Cesaria
(05:36):
Philippi, the town would be upon top of the hill.
Father Chris (05:40):
That's where so often in Christian art and in
story that we see heaven above,hell below.
There's always that space ofhell beneath.
And this won't be the last timethat Peter stumbles and falls
and tries to not do the will ofGod.
We'll see Peter deny that ourLord three times.
So it's almost the continuousconversion of humanity to get a
(06:04):
grasp on what God's doing.
And I mean even today, 2000years later, here we are still
talking about it.
Father Andrew (06:10):
This is a good point, though, which conversion
isn't just like one and done Nowyou're perfect and you're on
exactly the narrow path and younever want to stray from it and
all these other things.
Conversion has to happen overtime, just like habits.
If we build a bad habit, ittakes a while to get out of it,
even if we know that we need toend it, and so we might revert
or fall into these things, aswe're still trending upwards.
(06:33):
So hopefully that's the arc ofour salvation, but that doesn't
mean that we're not going tohave gullies or valleys in that,
and you see that in the life ofPeter, right.
And an important question forus too to ask ourselves who do
we think God is?
He usually breaks outside ofour own barriers that we try to
box him in, and that he can workin ways that we don't foresee
and work in extraordinary ways.
(06:53):
And that's always important forus in our faith is to see that
we can't exactly know all of God, right.
He's so much, infinitelygreater than us.
We're looking from inside thebox at everything and he's
outside of the box and seeing itin its full aspect.
And so think about thedisciples A lot of the times in
ancient Jewish culture, theythought that there was going to
be some great religious leader,there would be a military leader
(07:16):
even that would come and thatwould overthrow the Romans who
were oppressing them and conquerthe world.
Right.
And Jesus, that's not hismission.
He's not here to be a politicalmessiah, but rather the one
true messiah who writes humanitywith God, not just in this
world but into the next.
And so that's an important partthat here.
You see that Peter kind of hasthis false notion of who Jesus
(07:38):
is supposed to be.
He's still thinking that he'sgoing to overthrow everything
and that he's going to live andreign gloriously on the earth
and be robed in purple and havea crown.
And then what do we see in hispassion?
He is robed in purple, butmocked and crowned with thorns.
Jordan (07:52):
So we talked a lot about Peter, but how do you think the
other disciples were feelingwhen Jesus referred to Peter as
Satan?
Maybe like ouch?
Father Andrew (08:01):
Maybe didn't say much.
Father Chris (08:03):
You can almost hear James and John thinking oh,
now's our chance to stepforward and take control,
because we see where theirmother is like.
Oh, we want, I want my sons onyour right and your left.
Father Andrew (08:15):
I think that we have to think that there would
have been some rivalry and weget the scriptures from that
passage.
You're just saying so.
Some of them might have thoughtlike hey serves them right.
You know, because Peter'salways the one that's like kind
of set out front, and sometimeswe have this in our own life
where it's like, okay, I'm justas competent as Peter, why am I
not the guy called to be therock, why am I not the one that
Jesus is putting it as thepremier or the primacy?
(08:36):
And I think in that it wouldhave been a time where they
could have taken it as like a Ifeel bad for Peter and so like
we're going to consult him orother apostles might have been
like yeah, they've been one oftheir human reality.
Father Chris (08:51):
And plus, I think, too, all of them had to be
thinking we can't save ourselves, humanity can't save humanity.
And so, as they made their wayto Jerusalem, and when they hear
this, I'm sure a majority ofthem thought this is true, it's
coming.
We've seen the miracles, we'veseen the encounters Like he
(09:14):
knows what he's talking about.
Father Andrew (09:15):
Have you ever maybe been in a class where
somebody asks a question andyou're like I know the answer,
but I don't want to be wrong.
That's what I think of all thetime immediately before this
passage with the prediction,which is like Peter says, like,
because he usually just puts hisfoot in his mouth anyway, so he
might as well just throw it outthere to see if it's right.
You are Christ's, son of theliving God and he gets it right.
But I think a lot of the otherapostles around him are probably
(09:37):
like dang.
Jordan (09:38):
I knew that, you know I was, I was right, yeah despite
so, father, because you havethis friend, liz Lev, and in her
we did a video with her and shesays that you know, we're all
like Judas.
We are all sinners.
We, all you know, do thingslike Judas, but I don't know.
You're talking about Peter andI feel like I'm Peter.
I'm always putting my foot inmy mouth and well see the
difference between Peter andJudas, right?
Father Chris (10:00):
Peter recognizes when he makes a mistake and he
seeks to write it and he seeksforgiveness.
Judas, when he realized what hedid, disbared and he is in his
pride.
He could not ask the Lord toforgive him.
But I think Judas and Peter insome sense commit some of the
(10:22):
same types of sins not the samesin, but they both betrayed our
Lord and they both denied God.
Father Andrew (10:29):
I love.
There's the image of therooster.
Jordan (10:31):
Yeah.
Father Andrew (10:31):
So there's a church in Jerusalem, st Peter,
and Gallicantu, st Peter therooster.
But he denies the Lord afterhearing the cock crow or the
rooster crow three times,likewise on an old Irish penal
cross.
So it's a cross that was carriedby Catholics in Ireland during
the Reformation times of theEnglish and you weren't allowed
to show outward signs ofreligiosity Catholicism there's
(10:53):
at the bottom of it there's alittle rooster, but it has a
twofold meaning One for Peter'sdenial.
But then, on the opposite,there was a legendary story that
Judas, when he went home, hiswife was cooking a rooster in a
pan, basically, and he was allworried about Jesus coming back
and getting in trouble with thewrath of God and so forth.
And his wife said to him Jesushas as much chance of
(11:14):
resurrecting and coming back asthis rooster does, coming back
to life in this pan or this pot.
And then what happens?
The rooster comes back to life.
And then Judas despairs, butthe same symbol for both of them
, different reactions Despairversus asking contrition,
forgiveness, writing your sins.
Father Chris (11:32):
And the rooster is a great Christian symbol.
Because also many people placea little rooster in their
nativity sets because when thecockroach is always at dawn
right, Hopefully sometimes youhear roosters around here
they're a little confused, butwhat happens at dawn?
Christ is also born.
We celebrate the birth of ourLord with the announcement the
sun rises.
Yeah, exactly.
(11:53):
And so the rooster alsoannounces not only his betrayal
and the beginning of the passion, but his birth.
And so it's taking the wood ofthe manger to the wood of the
cross.
And all of this is becomingencompassed in the Constantinian
Basilica of St Peter's, priorto the current Basilica on the
great windmill that was on topof it.
(12:14):
The steeple was a massiverooster, and it was to remind
both the people as pilgrimscoming of Peter's denial, who is
now enshrined in this basilica,but it's also to remind us of
the times that we deny him whenwe hear him, and yet we continue
(12:34):
to do our will rather than his,and that's where the conditions
of discipleship are set forward.
Jordan (12:40):
So Jesus tells his disciples that the condition for
discipleship is to deny oneselfand take their own crosses and
follow him.
So how do we live out thatdiscipleship today?
Father Andrew (12:54):
I find it in my own life.
The thing that I really don'twant to do is probably the thing
I should do.
Father Chris (12:59):
And I think anyone who has ever trained for like
an athletic event.
You're not just going to go andrun the 100 meter dash because
you want it right.
You have to prepare and getready.
And that's the same in ourlives, in our spiritual lives
that to do something worthwhileit takes time, it takes effort
(13:19):
and we have to deny ourselves.
You know, instead of going outfor a big fancy dinner, we need
to deny ourselves so that we canget up early and get our
workout in or get extra study in.
It's part of the humancondition that we can't have
everything we want, and that'sthe problem that we face so
often today that everything mustbe instant and totally
(13:41):
gratifying.
If it's not, we just go formore and more and more and more.
Have your cake and eat it too.
Jordan (13:46):
How do you think we should be amazed today that
Jesus follows through thisprediction and he goes to
Jerusalem and dies for oursalvation?
Because I would kind of be likePeter and be like why are you
doing this?
Father Andrew (13:59):
I think that we could be caught up that, like
Jesus is God.
So therefore, like he just doesit Almost, like a automaton,
like he's a robot just doing theFather's will.
We have to remember that he'sfully God and fully man, and so
that there's a human and adivine will there.
No human being wants to go andbe crucified.
So I think I'm amazed at thefact of Jesus following through
(14:20):
on these things that he saidthat he would do.
Father Chris (14:23):
And I mean we see Jesus.
He's filled with trepidation inthe garden, you know, to the
point where he's so scared thathe's sweating blood.
And scientists have beenstudying this.
And it's a true phenomenon thatwhen you're faced with such
stress, such anxiety and such avisceral reality that's coming
your way, your capillaries willliterally burst in your skin.
(14:44):
And so when we hear about Jesussweating blood, he was to the
point that no person wants toever find themselves.
And that was just the beginningand what he do.
He cried out Lord, take thiscup away from me, but if it's
your will, I'll continue to doit.
And he continues to go forward.
(15:07):
And I think what's stunning iswhen we take a moment and pause
and think that God himselfbecame man yes, the incarnation
is absolutely stunning but thatGod himself would die for
creatures so that we could berestored back to him in
communion.
That's just for me.
(15:28):
That's what changes everything.
When you look at the church sooften, people, well, how could
you stay in that church?
It seems so irrelevant.
Well, it's not.
When we see what God has doneand what he's left us in his
sacraments and in his church,that changes everything.
That changes everything.
Jordan (15:44):
Thanks for listening to the Catholic Accent Podcast.
Don't forget to follow, likeand subscribe to our show.
You're listening to the Catholic Accent Podcast.
In this podcast, we discuss theacts and miracles that Jesus
performed that stunned hisdisciples.
I'm Jordan Waiko, along withFather Andrew Hamilton and
Father Christopher Pujol Jordan.
What are we talking about today?
Today's topic is the predictionof the passion.
Now Jesus tells his disciplesthat he must go to Jerusalem and
(00:20):
be killed.
So what do you think they werethinking?
If you were one of Jesus'disciples, what would your
reaction have been to this news?
Father Chris (00:28):
Oh why.
Or to be a little selfish, Ithink, oh, maybe I shouldn't go
along.
Father Andrew (00:33):
I'm going to sit this one out.
Father Chris (00:35):
Yeah, I'll meet you back in Nazareth.
I'll wait, but so where arethey?
Father Andrew (00:40):
at Jordan, you know.
Jordan (00:42):
No, you tell me All right.
Why don't you set the stage alittle bit?
Father Chris (00:44):
That sounds good.
Okay, we've been doing that forepisodes in a row now.
Yeah.
Father Andrew (00:48):
Caesarea Philippi .
Think of it.
Caesar, philip, philip theTetrarch names it after Caesar,
of course, which is the Romanemperor.
So it's not a Jewish town.
That's important to know.
It's a pagan city and so forth,and it's above Nazareth.
Now, talking about disciplesbeing stunned or the apostles
following Jesus, this was aplace that was known as a pagan
(01:10):
worship site of the God Pawn,specifically of the of a God,
goddess of fertility for thepagans.
And so immediately thedisciples would have said to
themselves why are we going toCaesarea Philippi?
So much so that it was commonthat there was a large
underground cave there that theywould actually sacrifice to the
(01:34):
God Pawn for healthy harvestand other things and fertility
and so on.
And what they would do is theywould actually throw first a
goat or a lamb into this largecave and then, depending upon
what came out of the cave bloodor whatnot they would accept and
see that maybe God, the GodPawn, had accepted this
(01:56):
sacrifice or rejected it Right.
Father Chris (01:57):
And so if it was a ?
Father Andrew (01:57):
rejection of the sacrifice.
The next thing that they turnedto not another animal, but a
child or a virgin that theywould then throw into the cave
and sacrifice to the God Pawn.
So this was a place that wasknown to be terrible.
Jewish people would not havewanted to go there, so the
disciples probably were thinkingwhat in the world?
Father Chris (02:18):
are we doing here?
Caesarea, philippi, turn around, we shouldn't be passing
through.
It's like driving through thoseparts of town.
You're like, ooh, maybe Ishouldn't be here right now.
And that had to be what theywere thinking this is not my
area.
And Jesus is just like trust me, it'll all be okay.
But then he begins to explainto them where they're going and
why, and that's what makes themall stop in their tracks.
Father Andrew (02:41):
And I think, bringing up from a previous
episode, what Father Chris hadsaid about Peter right when he
goes out onto the water, Peter'salways this one that wants to
jump ahead of Jesus and he'salways kind of putting his foot
in his mouth.
And so this is another instancewhere Peter does something
really good immediately beforethis prediction, and then he
gets rebuked by Jesus in thispassage.
(03:01):
So Jesus asks all of theapostles who do?
They say that I am?
Some say Elijah and prophet, orMoses, and so on.
But what does Peter say?
You're the Lord, you're the Sonof God, you're the living God,
right?
And so he proclaims him to bethe Messiah, the one that will
die for their sins.
And so Jesus says then to Peterwell, he changes his name Simon
(03:23):
Peter, just Peter.
You are the rock on which thechurch shall rest.
The gates of hell will notprevail against the church.
So he's told to be good andchanges his name.
Everything's really grand andso forth.
And then Jesus says I'm goingto Jerusalem to die.
Father Chris (03:39):
And.
Father Andrew (03:39):
Peter says God forbid it.
Jordan (03:43):
God's saying it.
All right, he's an obstacle.
Father Chris (03:47):
And everything stops.
And that's when Jesus you canalmost hear him stop, like that
footprint, just stop in the sand, a little bit of dust spins
around and he says get behind me, satan, you're an obstacle to
me.
And Peter had to be shaken inhis boots.
Father Andrew (04:05):
No, I don't want to undo what Father Christ has
said here, but this is the wayI'm going to say it was
explained to me in Caesarea ofPhilippi.
Normally the guides look up atthe big rock, face the cliff.
So it makes sense wheneverJesus says you are the rock,
because there's a bunch of bigrock face there.
But that cave that we weretalking about earlier would be
probably behind Jesus as he'sexplaining maybe this to Peter
(04:27):
in them.
Jordan (04:27):
How can Jesus still build his church on Peter when
he calls him Satan?
Father Andrew (04:32):
Well, he's basically in that moment.
The way that Peter is actuallyacting is a stumbling block to
the mission of God, in whichthat he's acting like how Satan
would do.
So Satan accuses.
And then we have another wordin Greek, diabolos, which is we
get the word devil from and thatmeans to cast apart, and so, in
some sense, what the devil doesto us is casts us apart from
(04:55):
the mission of God, apart fromGod, and then he creates a
stumbling block between us andsalvation.
And so what Peter's doing hereis trying to keep God back from
the redemptive work that he'scome to do.
So, literally, when he says,get behind me Satan, he's
telling him to go to where?
To, literally, the gates of thenetherworld, to hell, the place
(05:16):
where they sacrificed childrenand annergens and everything to
a false God, and there was abelief in the ancient world that
kind of spirits would rise upthrough these caves in the pagan
world and then come to dwell onthe earth.
Did you visit that cave?
Yeah, you can look down into it.
You can't go the whole way.
And there's niches built intothe rock cliff that you could
see.
That was like, at one point, atemple, and then Cesaria
(05:36):
Philippi, the town would be upon top of the hill.
Father Chris (05:40):
That's where so often in Christian art and in
story that we see heaven above,hell below.
There's always that space ofhell beneath.
And this won't be the last timethat Peter stumbles and falls
and tries to not do the will ofGod.
We'll see Peter deny that ourLord three times.
So it's almost the continuousconversion of humanity to get a
(06:04):
grasp on what God's doing.
And I mean even today, 2000years later, here we are still
talking about it.
Father Andrew (06:10):
This is a good point, though, which conversion
isn't just like one and done Nowyou're perfect and you're on
exactly the narrow path and younever want to stray from it and
all these other things.
Conversion has to happen overtime, just like habits.
If we build a bad habit, ittakes a while to get out of it,
even if we know that we need toend it, and so we might revert
or fall into these things, aswe're still trending upwards.
(06:33):
So hopefully that's the arc ofour salvation, but that doesn't
mean that we're not going tohave gullies or valleys in that,
and you see that in the life ofPeter, right.
And an important question forus too to ask ourselves who do
we think God is?
He usually breaks outside ofour own barriers that we try to
box him in, and that he can workin ways that we don't foresee
and work in extraordinary ways.
(06:53):
And that's always important forus in our faith is to see that
we can't exactly know all of God, right.
He's so much, infinitelygreater than us.
We're looking from inside thebox at everything and he's
outside of the box and seeing itin its full aspect.
And so think about thedisciples A lot of the times in
ancient Jewish culture, theythought that there was going to
be some great religious leader,there would be a military leader
(07:16):
even that would come and thatwould overthrow the Romans who
were oppressing them and conquerthe world.
Right.
And Jesus, that's not hismission.
He's not here to be a politicalmessiah, but rather the one
true messiah who writes humanitywith God, not just in this
world but into the next.
And so that's an important partthat here.
You see that Peter kind of hasthis false notion of who Jesus
(07:38):
is supposed to be.
He's still thinking that he'sgoing to overthrow everything
and that he's going to live andreign gloriously on the earth
and be robed in purple and havea crown.
And then what do we see in hispassion?
He is robed in purple, butmocked and crowned with thorns.
Jordan (07:52):
So we talked a lot about Peter, but how do you think the
other disciples were feelingwhen Jesus referred to Peter as
Satan?
Maybe like ouch?
Father Andrew (08:01):
Maybe didn't say much.
Father Chris (08:03):
You can almost hear James and John thinking oh,
now's our chance to stepforward and take control,
because we see where theirmother is like.
Oh, we want, I want my sons onyour right and your left.
Father Andrew (08:15):
I think that we have to think that there would
have been some rivalry and weget the scriptures from that
passage.
You're just saying so.
Some of them might have thoughtlike hey serves them right.
You know, because Peter'salways the one that's like kind
of set out front, and sometimeswe have this in our own life
where it's like, okay, I'm justas competent as Peter, why am I
not the guy called to be therock, why am I not the one that
Jesus is putting it as thepremier or the primacy?
(08:36):
And I think in that it wouldhave been a time where they
could have taken it as like a Ifeel bad for Peter and so like
we're going to consult him orother apostles might have been
like yeah, they've been one oftheir human reality.
Father Chris (08:51):
And plus, I think, too, all of them had to be
thinking we can't save ourselves, humanity can't save humanity.
And so, as they made their wayto Jerusalem, and when they hear
this, I'm sure a majority ofthem thought this is true, it's
coming.
We've seen the miracles, we'veseen the encounters Like he
(09:14):
knows what he's talking about.
Father Andrew (09:15):
Have you ever maybe been in a class where
somebody asks a question andyou're like I know the answer,
but I don't want to be wrong.
That's what I think of all thetime immediately before this
passage with the prediction,which is like Peter says, like,
because he usually just puts hisfoot in his mouth anyway, so he
might as well just throw it outthere to see if it's right.
You are Christ's, son of theliving God and he gets it right.
But I think a lot of the otherapostles around him are probably
(09:37):
like dang.
Jordan (09:38):
I knew that, you know I was, I was right, yeah despite
so, father, because you havethis friend, liz Lev, and in her
we did a video with her and shesays that you know, we're all
like Judas.
We are all sinners.
We, all you know, do thingslike Judas, but I don't know.
You're talking about Peter andI feel like I'm Peter.
I'm always putting my foot inmy mouth and well see the
difference between Peter andJudas, right?
Father Chris (10:00):
Peter recognizes when he makes a mistake and he
seeks to write it and he seeksforgiveness.
Judas, when he realized what hedid, disbared and he is in his
pride.
He could not ask the Lord toforgive him.
But I think Judas and Peter insome sense commit some of the
(10:22):
same types of sins not the samesin, but they both betrayed our
Lord and they both denied God.
Father Andrew (10:29):
I love.
There's the image of therooster.
Jordan (10:31):
Yeah.
Father Andrew (10:31):
So there's a church in Jerusalem, st Peter,
and Gallicantu, st Peter therooster.
But he denies the Lord afterhearing the cock crow or the
rooster crow three times,likewise on an old Irish penal
cross.
So it's a cross that was carriedby Catholics in Ireland during
the Reformation times of theEnglish and you weren't allowed
to show outward signs ofreligiosity Catholicism there's
(10:53):
at the bottom of it there's alittle rooster, but it has a
twofold meaning One for Peter'sdenial.
But then, on the opposite,there was a legendary story that
Judas, when he went home, hiswife was cooking a rooster in a
pan, basically, and he was allworried about Jesus coming back
and getting in trouble with thewrath of God and so forth.
And his wife said to him Jesushas as much chance of
(11:14):
resurrecting and coming back asthis rooster does, coming back
to life in this pan or this pot.
And then what happens?
The rooster comes back to life.
And then Judas despairs, butthe same symbol for both of them
, different reactions Despairversus asking contrition,
forgiveness, writing your sins.
Father Chris (11:32):
And the rooster is a great Christian symbol.
Because also many people placea little rooster in their
nativity sets because when thecockroach is always at dawn
right, Hopefully sometimes youhear roosters around here
they're a little confused, butwhat happens at dawn?
Christ is also born.
We celebrate the birth of ourLord with the announcement the
sun rises.
Yeah, exactly.
(11:53):
And so the rooster alsoannounces not only his betrayal
and the beginning of the passion, but his birth.
And so it's taking the wood ofthe manger to the wood of the
cross.
And all of this is becomingencompassed in the Constantinian
Basilica of St Peter's, priorto the current Basilica on the
great windmill that was on topof it.
(12:14):
The steeple was a massiverooster, and it was to remind
both the people as pilgrimscoming of Peter's denial, who is
now enshrined in this basilica,but it's also to remind us of
the times that we deny him whenwe hear him, and yet we continue
(12:34):
to do our will rather than his,and that's where the conditions
of discipleship are set forward.
Jordan (12:40):
So Jesus tells his disciples that the condition for
discipleship is to deny oneselfand take their own crosses and
follow him.
So how do we live out thatdiscipleship today?
Father Andrew (12:54):
I find it in my own life.
The thing that I really don'twant to do is probably the thing
I should do.
Father Chris (12:59):
And I think anyone who has ever trained for like
an athletic event.
You're not just going to go andrun the 100 meter dash because
you want it right.
You have to prepare and getready.
And that's the same in ourlives, in our spiritual lives
that to do something worthwhileit takes time, it takes effort
(13:19):
and we have to deny ourselves.
You know, instead of going outfor a big fancy dinner, we need
to deny ourselves so that we canget up early and get our
workout in or get extra study in.
It's part of the humancondition that we can't have
everything we want, and that'sthe problem that we face so
often today that everything mustbe instant and totally
(13:41):
gratifying.
If it's not, we just go formore and more and more and more.
Have your cake and eat it too.
Jordan (13:46):
How do you think we should be amazed today that
Jesus follows through thisprediction and he goes to
Jerusalem and dies for oursalvation?
Because I would kind of be likePeter and be like why are you
doing this?
Father Andrew (13:59):
I think that we could be caught up that, like
Jesus is God.
So therefore, like he just doesit Almost, like a automaton,
like he's a robot just doing theFather's will.
We have to remember that he'sfully God and fully man, and so
that there's a human and adivine will there.
No human being wants to go andbe crucified.
So I think I'm amazed at thefact of Jesus following through
(14:20):
on these things that he saidthat he would do.
Father Chris (14:23):
And I mean we see Jesus.
He's filled with trepidation inthe garden, you know, to the
point where he's so scared thathe's sweating blood.
And scientists have beenstudying this.
And it's a true phenomenon thatwhen you're faced with such
stress, such anxiety and such avisceral reality that's coming
your way, your capillaries willliterally burst in your skin.
(14:44):
And so when we hear about Jesussweating blood, he was to the
point that no person wants toever find themselves.
And that was just the beginningand what he do.
He cried out Lord, take thiscup away from me, but if it's
your will, I'll continue to doit.
And he continues to go forward.
(15:07):
And I think what's stunning iswhen we take a moment and pause
and think that God himselfbecame man yes, the incarnation
is absolutely stunning but thatGod himself would die for
creatures so that we could berestored back to him in
communion.
That's just for me.
(15:28):
That's what changes everything.
When you look at the church sooften, people, well, how could
you stay in that church?
It seems so irrelevant.
Well, it's not.
When we see what God has doneand what he's left us in his
sacraments and in his church,that changes everything.
That changes everything.
Jordan (15:44):
Thanks for listening to the Catholic Accent Podcast.
Don't forget to follow, likeand subscribe to our show.
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