November 6, 2023 • 16 mins
Could you strip yourself of all your worldly possessions for a chance at eternal life? This provocative question is at the core of an illuminating conversation with our esteemed guests, Father Andrew Hamilton and Father Christopher Pujol. Together, we journey through the profound narrative of the rich young man who asked Jesus about his path to eternal life. We delve into the challenges of detachment from material wealth and the struggle to find true security. We reflect on the stark reality that merely being a virtuous person isn't enough to establish a meaningful connection with God.
We discuss the pursuit of perfection through the practice of faith, acknowledging the impossibility of human perfection but the vital importance of striving towards it. This episode serves as a stirring reminder of our responsibility to walk the talk and continually seek God's grace. So, join us in this enlightening exploration of faith, devotion, and the trials of earthly detachment, right here on the Catholic Accent podcast.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jordan (00:00):
You're listening to the Catholic Accent Podcast.
In this podcast, we discuss theacts and miracles that Jesus
performed that stunned hisdisciples.
I'm Jordan Waiko, along withFather Andrew Hamilton and
Father Christopher Pujol.
Today's topic is the Rich man.
Gentlemen, Gentlemen, To beback.
Likewise, a rich young manapproaches Jesus and asks him
(00:22):
how to get into heaven.
Why don't you tell me?
How does Jesus respond?
Fr. Andrew (00:27):
Well, the rich young man says as well, you know that
I've kept the commandments,I've been doing these things,
that you say that the law saysfrom the Jewish law what more
must I do to inherit eternallife?
And Jesus gives him a simpleanswer Keep the commandments.
Fr. Chris (00:42):
Keep the commandments , love God and love your
neighbor.
Fr. Andrew (00:45):
And one more Go sell all your possessions and give
it to the poor.
Fr. Chris (00:49):
That's the really really tough one that puts
everything to a halt.
Jordan (00:54):
So what does the young man do?
Fr. Chris (00:56):
Before we get that far, I think it's fun just to
stop and think about like ayoung guy.
So this man, this time to be ayoung man, he would have been
probably late teens and anybodyunder 40.
Jordan (01:13):
You think?
Fr. Andrew (01:13):
But like imagine.
Jordan (01:14):
They're all late teens.
These are rich men.
Fr. Chris (01:16):
But, like you know, you think about young people
today and they're filled withambition.
They're filled with excitementand drive.
What's my life going to looklike?
And we have great people whoare doing good things.
And this man here is sayingthat I've fulfilled the
commandments and I'm living mylife the best way I can.
And in his mind he thought thatthat's enough.
(01:37):
And so when he approaches Jesus, it's almost that he's
expecting Jesus to say you're inbuddy, you've done it right.
Fr. Andrew (01:44):
You're doing good.
Well done, my good, faithfulservant.
Fr. Chris (01:46):
And instead he's like well, that's good, You're
keeping the commandments I'mglad you should be doing that,
but now get rid of everythingyou have.
Fr. Andrew (01:53):
That would be difficult.
As a young person, for example,what's one thing that we look
to our possessions for?
Jordan (01:59):
Like, would you give up your PlayStation security?
Fr. Chris (02:02):
I don't have one.
Jordan (02:03):
I thought you did, I don't either.
Fr. Andrew (02:04):
So it's already been given up, boom.
Fr. Chris (02:07):
See, we listened.
Fr. Andrew (02:08):
But we look for security in things a lot of the
times.
I think, that people experiencethis.
We're built with this mindsetthat we have to have a big 401k
or we have to have all thesethings.
Because what happens wheneverwe retire?
What happens when we're nothaving income coming in?
Well, we need to rely uponsomething, and if we put too
much security in things ratherthan in God, we're really, in a
(02:32):
way, breaking the commandment orworshipping something other
than God.
It's a false idol.
The root of all evil is what?
The love of money?
Not money necessarily itself,but being inordinately attached
to To money well, do you okay?
Jordan (02:47):
So do you think Jesus is asking too much of the young
man?
You know?
Would we still consider thisguy a good person?
You know he's following thecommandments, but now Jesus is
asking him to do something more.
Fr. Chris (02:59):
Well, see, this falls into so often today.
We hear people say well, Idon't go to church, but I'm a
good person.
Or I don't need to go to mass,or I don't need to confess my
sins to priests, but I'm a goodperson.
Well, sure, you very well mightbe a good person, but being a
good person doesn't mean thatyou have God, a relationship
with God or relationship withChrist.
Being a good person is the mostminimal thing that we're called
(03:23):
to in our human nature is to bea moral People treating each
other with respect and dignity.
Fr. Andrew (03:30):
That's a given to others, as you would have done
unto yeah that's the baseline.
Fr. Chris (03:35):
So just because you're a good person Doesn't
mean that we're fulfilling whatGod's asking of us, and so not
everyone is asked by God to giveeverything away.
But in the history of thechurch we see st Francis, who
Literally stripped himself infront of the mayor of Assisi and
in front of his father and gaveup everything.
Fr. Andrew (03:55):
I don't think it's giving away and this is like my
point that I would make.
It's not being Attached tothings that you can't let go of
right.
Yeah, so somebody came up to meand asked me for my ring on the
street and they were dying andthey needed a few hundred
dollars.
And I'm like no, if this ismine, I got to keep this.
I can't give this up to you.
I'm in, I'm wrongly attached tothis item and that's harmful
(04:16):
because it's something that Inow I'm starting to Worship or
have placed in my life aboveothers and above God.
Fr. Chris (04:23):
And what if they?
Jordan (04:24):
ask you for the ring, but instead you gave them money,
you gave them something else.
It wasn't the ring, so you'restill attached.
Fr. Andrew (04:31):
Well are still doing that act of giving them some
right, at least like you'reactually providing for that need
, like in that.
Jordan (04:37):
But would it still be considered attached attachment
to that, if I need this thing.
Fr. Andrew (04:41):
If I need to give up this thing to get into Heaven,
then yeah, I should be able tohear that's an ulterior motive.
Jordan (04:46):
So like are you doing it for selfish reasons?
Fr. Andrew (04:48):
Well, one could.
One starts maybe with selfishreasons.
Right, do unto others as youyourself would have done unto
you.
I don't want to punch you inthe face because I don't want to
be punched, but that keeps uson any equal ground.
You know right.
And then I have to move pastthat.
I don't want to punch Jordanface because he's a nice guy,
you know and then we move up,for that's not enough, but it's
not sometimes in a little bit ofa selfish way, which even from
(05:09):
from our first standpoint.
Why would I want to follow God?
Well, I don't want to go tohell, right?
I?
Want to go to heaven and andget good things.
That's not a terrible startingpoint if one comes to that.
But you have to move past thatand not do it for the fear of
hell or for gain, but rather toactually love the person of God.
That's where we move to in thespiritual life.
Fr. Chris (05:29):
Yeah, that's fair and that's why this passage is so
hard to hear.
Sometimes, when you hear Jesussay that it's easier for the
camel to pass through the eye ofa needle than for the rich one
to enter the kingdom of God,it's not Jesus saying that if
you're rich you're evil.
That's not it.
But again it goes back to thatattachment and it goes to show
(05:50):
us and remind us which I thinkso often we have to remember is
that None of us know that we'regoing directly to heaven.
The church does not teach thatyou have three options heaven,
purgatory or hell.
And so often we just say you'rea nice person, you're going to
heaven.
But in reality it's ourrelationship that we have to
(06:13):
take the initiative to seek thegoodness of God and In seeking
we're able to rid ourselves ofthose things that keep us
separated or farther away fromhim Now, the saying that you
mentioned, father Chris it'seasier for a camel to pass
through the eye of a needle Thanfor one who is richer to enter
the kingdom of God Now thatshould make us all.
Jordan (06:35):
Stop right that right, if any.
We should be stunned.
Fr. Chris (06:38):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Jordan (06:41):
I mean first of all this massive yeah not to be, you
know, excuse the pun, but likewhat's the point?
Fr. Chris (06:48):
oh, jordan, that's a.
That's a good joke.
Fr. Andrew (06:52):
Should.
Jordan (06:52):
I yeah give it Perfect any, any yeah, what's the point
and how do you what?
What do you think the disciplesDid when, when this happened,
like the shock of that sayingand you know them, seeing this
young man Saying that he'sfollowing the teachings, but do
(07:12):
something more.
Fr. Andrew (07:13):
I think, just speaking in a contemporary
context I was raised with themindset that the more money you
make, the more success you have,the more respected you are, and
I think that that's such aharmful way to look at life and
the way that we should livewe're.
There's another story aboutwealth and what a man does with
it, and what Jesus says is usewealth to make Friends.
(07:34):
That's really the importantpart of what you use your wealth
for, because remember Lazarusand the poor man that comes to
his door.
Well, I'm sorry, lazarus andthe rich man, the rich man who
doesn't give to Lazarus, thepoor man comes to his door.
Well, what he's told in heavenessentially is you didn't
actually make friends with yourwealth, and now Lazarus cannot
help you, nobody else can helpyou, and that's what we're
(07:56):
called to do, which is to sharethe things that we've been given
by God.
Only by his grace and powerhave we been able to come into
possession of them.
So, as for the service ofothers, for the service of his
church and his mission in thisworld and that's one of the
tricky things about wealth, asit can come to possess you, and
it can be a really difficultthing Over time whenever you
overuse it to then rid yourselffrom yeah we attach this baggage
(08:20):
to us.
There was this great image I sawthe other day, which is a, a
traveler that had a Stick acrosshis back and he had bags on
either side and its possessions,or maybe another sin or like
whatever else.
It would be in the doorwaysacross, but it's not big enough
to be able to fit with all thebags on each side.
You would have to let them goand then enter through the cross
(08:42):
in Purgatory's like that, inwhich that we have to let go of
this baggage that's dragging usdown so that the Lord can lift
us up.
And sometimes for people thatcan be Lust, greed, envy, you
name it all your seven deadlysins.
Jordan (08:55):
So the gospel tells us that it's you know that the man
had many possessions, but itcould be that Jesus asked him to
give up not a literalpossession, but just he's by
many things.
Fr. Andrew (09:04):
Yeah, that way yeah for sure.
Jordan (09:07):
So how could this gospel passage be a response to the
message of prosperity gospelpreached by, you know, many
televangelists andnon-denominational preachers?
Does, as you were saying,wealth in this life really mean
that you're favored by God orGet into hell?
Fr. Andrew (09:20):
Well, Jesus says come follow me.
And then where does he go?
To the cross, and he dies poor.
So I don't think necessarily,whenever he calls us, if we're
doing his will, that that meansit will be rich or wealthy or
anything Else down the line.
Like that will be spirituallyrich, that's for certain.
But that doesn't mean thatwe'll be materially wealthy in
this life and all of thosethings don't go with us.
(09:41):
There's this great saying thatI got from a gentleman at one of
my parishes that you never seea Bank truck following a hearse
mm-hmm at the end of life, right.
And so we don't take the richeswith us.
They can't be buried with us,they mean nothing in the end and
you can't buy.
Fr. Chris (09:54):
God.
So to say that I'm favored,highly favored, because I'm
wealthy, is Totally against whatis taught in the gospel and
what Jesus is teaching, and Ilove that after this
conversation happens with therich young man, peter pipes up
and he says but Jesus, we'vegiven up everything and we
(10:14):
followed you.
What are we gonna get?
And Jesus responds you followedme and now, in the new age to
come, you will be seated on thethrones To judge the tribes of
Israel, when the Son of man isseated on the throne.
And we see in that context thatby their virtue of offering
(10:35):
everything, they inherit thekingdom of God.
And so we see that in the livesof the martyrs you know, martyr
from the Greek literally meansto witness, and by the shedding
of their blood and the witnessof their lives they're showing
by giving everything, they gaineverything.
Fr. Andrew (10:55):
I want to tell a quick story about not seeing the
true goodness of how to usewealth at the beginning.
So one of the great, hopefullycanonized saint into the future,
but now blessed, blessed,pierre Giorgio Frasati.
He lived in Turin.
His father, alfredo Frasati,was very wealthy.
He ran a large newspapercompany and his father always
(11:17):
resented his son for giving awayeverything to the poor in Turin
.
Every time he'd get a new suit,jacket, he'd go and he'd give
it to some poor person on thestreet, and then he'd have to
ask his dad for more things andso forth, and his dad was
enraged by it because hismindset was you have to secure
the wealth and make money andmake sure that the family is
well provided for and all theseother things, and that's not the
way Pierre Giorgio Frasati sawit.
So his father never saw thegood that Pierre Giorgio was
(11:41):
doing until after Pierre Giorgiodied young, from, I believe,
tuberculosis.
Coming out of his front door,alfredo Frasati, following
behind the body of his son in acasket, witnessed all of the
good that his son did, evenbeing a fool in giving away his
wealth.
He saw all of these poor peopleof Turin, so much so, filled in
(12:03):
the streets, the people werewalking shoulder to shoulder.
They passed his casket from hishouse down to the parish church
where they had the funeral mass, and from that point, alfredo,
his father, had a conversion andrealized.
Money, wealth, possessions,they all pale in comparison to
making friends with your wealth,to using it for the reasons and
(12:25):
purposes of God and seeing thegreat glory that his son was
able to be risen to or wasraised in dignity by all these
poor people who he helpedthroughout his life.
Fr. Chris (12:35):
So, Father, could we say that?
You know, Pierre Giorgiosomehow did this for his own
merits to enter heaven.
Fr. Andrew (12:43):
He didn't just do it to get into heaven but for the
good of the other.
But that doesn't mean that inthis life that we as Catholics
believe if we do enough goodworks and we make the scale go
up, therefore we won't go down.
We need God's grace to doanything in our lives, and that
goes back to the point of thewealth that we have as a gift
given to us as stewards in thislife, not that we completely own
(13:05):
it and possess it and consumeit and can use it for anything
that we want.
And so we as Catholics reallybelieve that with God's grace,
then we do good works Absolutely, and that formula together then
leads towards salvation, butonly predicated, only started on
the fact that God has given usthe grace to then go forward and
do good works for us and wehave to cooperate with it.
Jordan (13:24):
Right.
So why are good works importantfor Catholics?
Fr. Chris (13:28):
Oh, they're critical because, you know, just like we
have faith and we have reason,and just like we have scripture
and we have the tradition of thechurch, we have to have the
grace of God that's given to usright and asked for.
But we also can't just sit byand let people starve on the
(13:48):
streets.
We can't sit by and not educatepeople who need taught.
We have to be there to work outthe mission of the church.
So it's not a passive church,it's very active.
Fr. Andrew (14:01):
And I think too, I'm a priest, I'm celibate, but say
I was married and I had a wifeand I said I love you.
I could just say that and thendo nothing to back up my words.
Jordan (14:09):
Right, I could talk the talk but you have to show it
Like words mean nothing.
You have to walk the walk.
Fr. Andrew (14:13):
Right.
So if I have this great faith,it should propel me, then, to
give visible outward signs ofwhat that faith means to me,
which is doing good works, whichis helping and persevering in
my faith.
And that's what St James saysin scripture, right, that,
basically, faith is dead withoutgood works.
Jordan (14:31):
So, would you say, you have to find a balance between
Well they go hand in hand.
Fr. Chris (14:35):
I think our faith moves us to do good and our good
work should be based on ourfaith.
The other day I was flippingthrough the channels and there
was this commercial and this manappeared and he's like if you
love Jesus, simply pray after me.
I believe that Jesus Christ isLord and you're going to go to
heaven.
Well, no, there's so much moreto it than that.
(14:59):
I mean just because you havefaith.
Yes, that's a starting pointand that's critical and we must
have it.
But faith, the virtue of faithand the grace of faith we have
to work with.
And so I could say that we cooksometimes together, father and
(15:19):
I, and I could say, oh, I makethe best beef Wellington.
Jordan (15:24):
Do you?
I do Pretty good, all right.
Fr. Chris (15:26):
Well, thanks for the invite If I say that, right,
you're working your way up andnever make it.
Who's?
You know there's no realitythere.
Fr. Andrew (15:35):
So I mean, I think it's always like I could make a
commitment that, hey, we'regoing out to dinner at five
o'clock tonight, right, andreally mean it when I say it
like I'm going to get there nomatter what, like I want to go
to dinner with Jordan.
Fr. Chris (15:45):
And then he goes to and then life happens.
Fr. Andrew (15:48):
Right, somebody's done that before, in that sense
right, you made the commitment,you definitely meant it.
That's like professing faith inJesus Christ.
You mean it at the time being,but then life happens down the
line and you can backslide.
That's what we've been talkingabout throughout a lot of these
podcasts, with Peter rightSaying something great and then
backsliding off of it and thensaying something Okay and then
backsliding off of it.
(16:08):
That's kind of theteeter-totter of our life,
sometimes with faith, but wehope to end in God's grace,
accepting him and doing theright thing.
Fr. Chris (16:17):
It really is.
You know, kind of cliche to say, but that's why we say we're
practicing the faith.
Fr. Andrew (16:22):
You know, like a doctor practices medicine we're
never going to get perfected.
Fr. Chris (16:26):
Never perfected.
Only Christ is perfection, andour hope is that through our
faith and our good works, thatin heaven we will see that
perfection come to fruition.
Fr. Andrew (16:34):
And the Blessed Virgin.
Fr. Chris (16:35):
Mary and the Blessed Virgin Mary Shout out mom.
Jordan (16:39):
Thanks for listening to the Catholic accent podcast.
Don't forget to follow, likeand subscribe to our show.
You're listening to the Catholic Accent Podcast.
In this podcast, we discuss theacts and miracles that Jesus
performed that stunned hisdisciples.
I'm Jordan Waiko, along withFather Andrew Hamilton and
Father Christopher Pujol.
Today's topic is the Rich man.
Gentlemen, Gentlemen, To beback.
Likewise, a rich young manapproaches Jesus and asks him
(00:22):
how to get into heaven.
Why don't you tell me?
How does Jesus respond?
Fr. Andrew (00:27):
Well, the rich young man says as well, you know that
I've kept the commandments,I've been doing these things,
that you say that the law saysfrom the Jewish law what more
must I do to inherit eternallife?
And Jesus gives him a simpleanswer Keep the commandments.
Fr. Chris (00:42):
Keep the commandments , love God and love your
neighbor.
Fr. Andrew (00:45):
And one more Go sell all your possessions and give
it to the poor.
Fr. Chris (00:49):
That's the really really tough one that puts
everything to a halt.
Jordan (00:54):
So what does the young man do?
Fr. Chris (00:56):
Before we get that far, I think it's fun just to
stop and think about like ayoung guy.
So this man, this time to be ayoung man, he would have been
probably late teens and anybodyunder 40.
Jordan (01:13):
You think?
Fr. Andrew (01:13):
But like imagine.
Jordan (01:14):
They're all late teens.
These are rich men.
Fr. Chris (01:16):
But, like you know, you think about young people
today and they're filled withambition.
They're filled with excitementand drive.
What's my life going to looklike?
And we have great people whoare doing good things.
And this man here is sayingthat I've fulfilled the
commandments and I'm living mylife the best way I can.
And in his mind he thought thatthat's enough.
(01:37):
And so when he approaches Jesus, it's almost that he's
expecting Jesus to say you're inbuddy, you've done it right.
Fr. Andrew (01:44):
You're doing good.
Well done, my good, faithfulservant.
Fr. Chris (01:46):
And instead he's like well, that's good, You're
keeping the commandments I'mglad you should be doing that,
but now get rid of everythingyou have.
Fr. Andrew (01:53):
That would be difficult.
As a young person, for example,what's one thing that we look
to our possessions for?
Jordan (01:59):
Like, would you give up your PlayStation security?
Fr. Chris (02:02):
I don't have one.
Jordan (02:03):
I thought you did, I don't either.
Fr. Andrew (02:04):
So it's already been given up, boom.
Fr. Chris (02:07):
See, we listened.
Fr. Andrew (02:08):
But we look for security in things a lot of the
times.
I think, that people experiencethis.
We're built with this mindsetthat we have to have a big 401k
or we have to have all thesethings.
Because what happens wheneverwe retire?
What happens when we're nothaving income coming in?
Well, we need to rely uponsomething, and if we put too
much security in things ratherthan in God, we're really, in a
(02:32):
way, breaking the commandment orworshipping something other
than God.
It's a false idol.
The root of all evil is what?
The love of money?
Not money necessarily itself,but being inordinately attached
to To money well, do you okay?
Jordan (02:47):
So do you think Jesus is asking too much of the young
man?
You know?
Would we still consider thisguy a good person?
You know he's following thecommandments, but now Jesus is
asking him to do something more.
Fr. Chris (02:59):
Well, see, this falls into so often today.
We hear people say well, Idon't go to church, but I'm a
good person.
Or I don't need to go to mass,or I don't need to confess my
sins to priests, but I'm a goodperson.
Well, sure, you very well mightbe a good person, but being a
good person doesn't mean thatyou have God, a relationship
with God or relationship withChrist.
Being a good person is the mostminimal thing that we're called
(03:23):
to in our human nature is to bea moral People treating each
other with respect and dignity.
Fr. Andrew (03:30):
That's a given to others, as you would have done
unto yeah that's the baseline.
Fr. Chris (03:35):
So just because you're a good person Doesn't
mean that we're fulfilling whatGod's asking of us, and so not
everyone is asked by God to giveeverything away.
But in the history of thechurch we see st Francis, who
Literally stripped himself infront of the mayor of Assisi and
in front of his father and gaveup everything.
Fr. Andrew (03:55):
I don't think it's giving away and this is like my
point that I would make.
It's not being Attached tothings that you can't let go of
right.
Yeah, so somebody came up to meand asked me for my ring on the
street and they were dying andthey needed a few hundred
dollars.
And I'm like no, if this ismine, I got to keep this.
I can't give this up to you.
I'm in, I'm wrongly attached tothis item and that's harmful
(04:16):
because it's something that Inow I'm starting to Worship or
have placed in my life aboveothers and above God.
Fr. Chris (04:23):
And what if they?
Jordan (04:24):
ask you for the ring, but instead you gave them money,
you gave them something else.
It wasn't the ring, so you'restill attached.
Fr. Andrew (04:31):
Well are still doing that act of giving them some
right, at least like you'reactually providing for that need
, like in that.
Jordan (04:37):
But would it still be considered attached attachment
to that, if I need this thing.
Fr. Andrew (04:41):
If I need to give up this thing to get into Heaven,
then yeah, I should be able tohear that's an ulterior motive.
Jordan (04:46):
So like are you doing it for selfish reasons?
Fr. Andrew (04:48):
Well, one could.
One starts maybe with selfishreasons.
Right, do unto others as youyourself would have done unto
you.
I don't want to punch you inthe face because I don't want to
be punched, but that keeps uson any equal ground.
You know right.
And then I have to move pastthat.
I don't want to punch Jordanface because he's a nice guy,
you know and then we move up,for that's not enough, but it's
not sometimes in a little bit ofa selfish way, which even from
(05:09):
from our first standpoint.
Why would I want to follow God?
Well, I don't want to go tohell, right?
I?
Want to go to heaven and andget good things.
That's not a terrible startingpoint if one comes to that.
But you have to move past thatand not do it for the fear of
hell or for gain, but rather toactually love the person of God.
That's where we move to in thespiritual life.
Fr. Chris (05:29):
Yeah, that's fair and that's why this passage is so
hard to hear.
Sometimes, when you hear Jesussay that it's easier for the
camel to pass through the eye ofa needle than for the rich one
to enter the kingdom of God,it's not Jesus saying that if
you're rich you're evil.
That's not it.
But again it goes back to thatattachment and it goes to show
(05:50):
us and remind us which I thinkso often we have to remember is
that None of us know that we'regoing directly to heaven.
The church does not teach thatyou have three options heaven,
purgatory or hell.
And so often we just say you'rea nice person, you're going to
heaven.
But in reality it's ourrelationship that we have to
(06:13):
take the initiative to seek thegoodness of God and In seeking
we're able to rid ourselves ofthose things that keep us
separated or farther away fromhim Now, the saying that you
mentioned, father Chris it'seasier for a camel to pass
through the eye of a needle Thanfor one who is richer to enter
the kingdom of God Now thatshould make us all.
Jordan (06:35):
Stop right that right, if any.
We should be stunned.
Fr. Chris (06:38):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Jordan (06:41):
I mean first of all this massive yeah not to be, you
know, excuse the pun, but likewhat's the point?
Fr. Chris (06:48):
oh, jordan, that's a.
That's a good joke.
Fr. Andrew (06:52):
Should.
Jordan (06:52):
I yeah give it Perfect any, any yeah, what's the point
and how do you what?
What do you think the disciplesDid when, when this happened,
like the shock of that sayingand you know them, seeing this
young man Saying that he'sfollowing the teachings, but do
(07:12):
something more.
Fr. Andrew (07:13):
I think, just speaking in a contemporary
context I was raised with themindset that the more money you
make, the more success you have,the more respected you are, and
I think that that's such aharmful way to look at life and
the way that we should livewe're.
There's another story aboutwealth and what a man does with
it, and what Jesus says is usewealth to make Friends.
(07:34):
That's really the importantpart of what you use your wealth
for, because remember Lazarusand the poor man that comes to
his door.
Well, I'm sorry, lazarus andthe rich man, the rich man who
doesn't give to Lazarus, thepoor man comes to his door.
Well, what he's told in heavenessentially is you didn't
actually make friends with yourwealth, and now Lazarus cannot
help you, nobody else can helpyou, and that's what we're
(07:56):
called to do, which is to sharethe things that we've been given
by God.
Only by his grace and powerhave we been able to come into
possession of them.
So, as for the service ofothers, for the service of his
church and his mission in thisworld and that's one of the
tricky things about wealth, asit can come to possess you, and
it can be a really difficultthing Over time whenever you
overuse it to then rid yourselffrom yeah we attach this baggage
(08:20):
to us.
There was this great image I sawthe other day, which is a, a
traveler that had a Stick acrosshis back and he had bags on
either side and its possessions,or maybe another sin or like
whatever else.
It would be in the doorwaysacross, but it's not big enough
to be able to fit with all thebags on each side.
You would have to let them goand then enter through the cross
(08:42):
in Purgatory's like that, inwhich that we have to let go of
this baggage that's dragging usdown so that the Lord can lift
us up.
And sometimes for people thatcan be Lust, greed, envy, you
name it all your seven deadlysins.
Jordan (08:55):
So the gospel tells us that it's you know that the man
had many possessions, but itcould be that Jesus asked him to
give up not a literalpossession, but just he's by
many things.
Fr. Andrew (09:04):
Yeah, that way yeah for sure.
Jordan (09:07):
So how could this gospel passage be a response to the
message of prosperity gospelpreached by, you know, many
televangelists andnon-denominational preachers?
Does, as you were saying,wealth in this life really mean
that you're favored by God orGet into hell?
Fr. Andrew (09:20):
Well, Jesus says come follow me.
And then where does he go?
To the cross, and he dies poor.
So I don't think necessarily,whenever he calls us, if we're
doing his will, that that meansit will be rich or wealthy or
anything Else down the line.
Like that will be spirituallyrich, that's for certain.
But that doesn't mean thatwe'll be materially wealthy in
this life and all of thosethings don't go with us.
(09:41):
There's this great saying thatI got from a gentleman at one of
my parishes that you never seea Bank truck following a hearse
mm-hmm at the end of life, right.
And so we don't take the richeswith us.
They can't be buried with us,they mean nothing in the end and
you can't buy.
Fr. Chris (09:54):
God.
So to say that I'm favored,highly favored, because I'm
wealthy, is Totally against whatis taught in the gospel and
what Jesus is teaching, and Ilove that after this
conversation happens with therich young man, peter pipes up
and he says but Jesus, we'vegiven up everything and we
(10:14):
followed you.
What are we gonna get?
And Jesus responds you followedme and now, in the new age to
come, you will be seated on thethrones To judge the tribes of
Israel, when the Son of man isseated on the throne.
And we see in that context thatby their virtue of offering
(10:35):
everything, they inherit thekingdom of God.
And so we see that in the livesof the martyrs you know, martyr
from the Greek literally meansto witness, and by the shedding
of their blood and the witnessof their lives they're showing
by giving everything, they gaineverything.
Fr. Andrew (10:55):
I want to tell a quick story about not seeing the
true goodness of how to usewealth at the beginning.
So one of the great, hopefullycanonized saint into the future,
but now blessed, blessed,pierre Giorgio Frasati.
He lived in Turin.
His father, alfredo Frasati,was very wealthy.
He ran a large newspapercompany and his father always
(11:17):
resented his son for giving awayeverything to the poor in Turin
.
Every time he'd get a new suit,jacket, he'd go and he'd give
it to some poor person on thestreet, and then he'd have to
ask his dad for more things andso forth, and his dad was
enraged by it because hismindset was you have to secure
the wealth and make money andmake sure that the family is
well provided for and all theseother things, and that's not the
way Pierre Giorgio Frasati sawit.
So his father never saw thegood that Pierre Giorgio was
(11:41):
doing until after Pierre Giorgiodied young, from, I believe,
tuberculosis.
Coming out of his front door,alfredo Frasati, following
behind the body of his son in acasket, witnessed all of the
good that his son did, evenbeing a fool in giving away his
wealth.
He saw all of these poor peopleof Turin, so much so, filled in
(12:03):
the streets, the people werewalking shoulder to shoulder.
They passed his casket from hishouse down to the parish church
where they had the funeral mass, and from that point, alfredo,
his father, had a conversion andrealized.
Money, wealth, possessions,they all pale in comparison to
making friends with your wealth,to using it for the reasons and
(12:25):
purposes of God and seeing thegreat glory that his son was
able to be risen to or wasraised in dignity by all these
poor people who he helpedthroughout his life.
Fr. Chris (12:35):
So, Father, could we say that?
You know, Pierre Giorgiosomehow did this for his own
merits to enter heaven.
Fr. Andrew (12:43):
He didn't just do it to get into heaven but for the
good of the other.
But that doesn't mean that inthis life that we as Catholics
believe if we do enough goodworks and we make the scale go
up, therefore we won't go down.
We need God's grace to doanything in our lives, and that
goes back to the point of thewealth that we have as a gift
given to us as stewards in thislife, not that we completely own
(13:05):
it and possess it and consumeit and can use it for anything
that we want.
And so we as Catholics reallybelieve that with God's grace,
then we do good works Absolutely, and that formula together then
leads towards salvation, butonly predicated, only started on
the fact that God has given usthe grace to then go forward and
do good works for us and wehave to cooperate with it.
Jordan (13:24):
Right.
So why are good works importantfor Catholics?
Fr. Chris (13:28):
Oh, they're critical because, you know, just like we
have faith and we have reason,and just like we have scripture
and we have the tradition of thechurch, we have to have the
grace of God that's given to usright and asked for.
But we also can't just sit byand let people starve on the
(13:48):
streets.
We can't sit by and not educatepeople who need taught.
We have to be there to work outthe mission of the church.
So it's not a passive church,it's very active.
Fr. Andrew (14:01):
And I think too, I'm a priest, I'm celibate, but say
I was married and I had a wifeand I said I love you.
I could just say that and thendo nothing to back up my words.
Jordan (14:09):
Right, I could talk the talk but you have to show it
Like words mean nothing.
You have to walk the walk.
Fr. Andrew (14:13):
Right.
So if I have this great faith,it should propel me, then, to
give visible outward signs ofwhat that faith means to me,
which is doing good works, whichis helping and persevering in
my faith.
And that's what St James saysin scripture, right, that,
basically, faith is dead withoutgood works.
Jordan (14:31):
So, would you say, you have to find a balance between
Well they go hand in hand.
Fr. Chris (14:35):
I think our faith moves us to do good and our good
work should be based on ourfaith.
The other day I was flippingthrough the channels and there
was this commercial and this manappeared and he's like if you
love Jesus, simply pray after me.
I believe that Jesus Christ isLord and you're going to go to
heaven.
Well, no, there's so much moreto it than that.
(14:59):
I mean just because you havefaith.
Yes, that's a starting pointand that's critical and we must
have it.
But faith, the virtue of faithand the grace of faith we have
to work with.
And so I could say that we cooksometimes together, father and
(15:19):
I, and I could say, oh, I makethe best beef Wellington.
Jordan (15:24):
Do you?
I do Pretty good, all right.
Fr. Chris (15:26):
Well, thanks for the invite If I say that, right,
you're working your way up andnever make it.
Who's?
You know there's no realitythere.
Fr. Andrew (15:35):
So I mean, I think it's always like I could make a
commitment that, hey, we'regoing out to dinner at five
o'clock tonight, right, andreally mean it when I say it
like I'm going to get there nomatter what, like I want to go
to dinner with Jordan.
Fr. Chris (15:45):
And then he goes to and then life happens.
Fr. Andrew (15:48):
Right, somebody's done that before, in that sense
right, you made the commitment,you definitely meant it.
That's like professing faith inJesus Christ.
You mean it at the time being,but then life happens down the
line and you can backslide.
That's what we've been talkingabout throughout a lot of these
podcasts, with Peter rightSaying something great and then
backsliding off of it and thensaying something Okay and then
backsliding off of it.
(16:08):
That's kind of theteeter-totter of our life,
sometimes with faith, but wehope to end in God's grace,
accepting him and doing theright thing.
Fr. Chris (16:17):
It really is.
You know, kind of cliche to say, but that's why we say we're
practicing the faith.
Fr. Andrew (16:22):
You know, like a doctor practices medicine we're
never going to get perfected.
Fr. Chris (16:26):
Never perfected.
Only Christ is perfection, andour hope is that through our
faith and our good works, thatin heaven we will see that
perfection come to fruition.
Fr. Andrew (16:34):
And the Blessed Virgin.
Fr. Chris (16:35):
Mary and the Blessed Virgin Mary Shout out mom.
Jordan (16:39):
Thanks for listening to the Catholic accent podcast.
Don't forget to follow, likeand subscribe to our show.
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