November 20, 2023 β’ 16 mins
Ever wondered why Jesus waited two days before visiting Lazarus? Intriguing, right? Join Jordan Whiteko, Father Christopher Pujol, and Father Andrew Hamilton from the Diocese of Greensburg as we dive into the mystery and significance of Lazarus' resurrection, one of Jesus' most breathtaking miracles. We unpack the profound impact this event had on the Jewish leaders of the time. As we reflect on this miracle, we shed light on Jesus' command over death and his divine mission to bestow eternal life.
But we don't stop there. We venture into the realm of death and the afterlife, with a focus on purgatory, an essential belief in the Catholic faith. Ever considered how prayers for the departed serve a dual purpose? We discuss how these prayers provide comfort to the grieving and assistance to the departed soul. As we reflect on Lazarus' story, we are reminded of God's enduring call to life and freedom. So, join us as we unravel the deeper implications of these biblical narratives and their relevance to our lives today.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to the Catholic Accent Podcast.
In this podcast we discuss theacts and miracles that Jesus
performed that stunned hisdisciples.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
And we're back.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
We are Sorry.
You want to do that.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Go ahead.
Sorry, Jordan, but I'd be happyto.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
A little guest introduction.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, here we are back at the Catholic Accent
Podcast, and I'm Father ChrisPugel, and with me is Father
Andrew Hamilton and Mr JordanWhiteco from the Communications
Office here at the Diocese ofGreensburg.
That was nice.
Oh thanks.
You know.
I've been learning a lot fromyou over these past few weeks.
What are we talking about today?
Today, we are going to betalking about the wonderful
(00:38):
story of Lazarus.
That great guy from the Biblewho died, came back from the
dead stunned.
So, jordan, how about you leadus into what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (00:50):
So some will argue that the raising of Lazarus is
Jesus's most important miracleand the miracle that leads us to
Jesus's death a short timelater.
Why is this miracle so shocking?
I mean, other than obviouslysomeone's being raised from the
dead?
You got it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It's very shocking, so why did?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
this upset the Jewish leaders so much.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Well, it gives great credence to everything that
Jesus has been saying.
Right, that he's been workingthese great miracles, but one
miracle, certainly, that youcould never do, unless you were,
of course, god raising somebodyfrom the dead, and there was a
whole group of Jews who did notbelieve in the resurrection of
the dead.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Now, here, though, I think, before we dive in deep,
it's important to say that therising of Lazarus is a
resuscitation of the body.
It's not his resurrection.
Christ has been resurrectedbecause he has received his body
back in a glorified manner, inthe manner that we will receive
it on the last day when oursouls are reunited with our
(01:54):
earthly bodies and we rise fromthe tombs and all the tombs open
.
This is a resuscitation.
Where Lazarus has died, he'sbeen placed in the tomb, good
friend of Jesus.
Jesus comes to mourn hisfriend's loss and to show his
power and authority over all ofcreation.
He resuscitates him by callinginto the tomb Lazarus, come out.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Was anyone with him when he did?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
this oh yeah, the Jews were gathered around to
witness it, as well as Marthaand Mary the sisters of Lazarus
Before we even get to there,though, so one of the things
leading up to the raising ofLazarus is that Jesus is not
right at Bethany, where Lazarusand Mary and Martha live
together, but they're a littlebit far away, and he gets word
(02:40):
and message that Lazarus isessentially sick and everything
else like that.
And then he does something veryodd he waits, waits Two days.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
And so it's an interesting two days after his
death?
No, before he waits two daysfrom the moment he hears that
Lazarus is ill, so the news isbrought to him Master, the one
you love is ill.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
And Jesus heard this, and then he remained for two
days in the place where he was,and he explains it, though, to
his apostles, disciples that arewith him, that it's really
again, as we talk about theGospel of John, this is going to
be a sign.
This is going to be a sign ofChrist's glory, his ability to
raise Lazarus from the dead.
An interesting person that I'malways stunned by whenever we
(03:24):
meet him in the Scriptures is StThomas.
Right, we always remember StThomas for his doubting, but,
interestingly, in this part ofScripture, in the 11th chapter
of John, Thomas says somethingvery brave.
He says to the rest of theapostles, because they're
worried that going closer toBethany, closer to Jerusalem,
that Jesus is going to getkilled as well as all of them
(03:44):
together.
And Thomas says to the rest ofthem let us go to die with Jesus
.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Why wait two days?
Why not go immediately?
Why did he want the drama?
If you will?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Well, jesus starts to .
He obviously, as God, knowswhat he's about to do and he
wants to teach the disciplesright.
So, his rabbi, a teacher, hewants them to learn the message
of the gospel and what he's cometo do.
And so that's why, when hehears this, jesus says finally,
(04:16):
let us go to Judea.
The disciples fret They'vealready tried to stone and kill
you there, let's not.
Then we hear Thomas say let'sgo.
When he hears of Lazarus' death, jesus says something very
peculiar.
I'm glad that I was not therethat you may believe.
Now let us go to him.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Okay.
So he wanted them to see andknow that Lazarus was dead.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
In a lot of ways, this is the greatest sign.
They've seen everythingtransfiguration, everything else
down the line, but now you'reseeing, okay, god has control,
even over death itself, and thathe can even see through death
to bring life, which is hismission on the earth, which is
to bring us to the fullness ofeternal life, dwelling eternally
(05:03):
with God rather than remainingin death.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Especially since we have to remember, prior to the
fall in the garden in Genesis,there was no death.
Sin brings about death, and sowhat Jesus is doing is restoring
life and saying, yes, deathwill happen, and even he himself
will suffer death, but that'snot the end of the story.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
We hear that the wages of sin is death, and so
it's the in that way, like thenatural consequence that comes
about.
But that doesn't mean that'swhere we end, but rather Christ
takes us through that to lifeitself.
I'm always moved in thispassage as well, as Christ
coming to his good friend andcoming to Martha and Mary and
(05:47):
them saying to him Lord, had youbeen here, you could have saved
my brother.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Essentially, this wouldn't have happened, right.
Where were you, yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
And Jesus has to show them that this world isn't what
we are meant to be forever ormade for Is that why Jesus wept.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Well, in his human nature he also wept because of
their lack of faith, but alsobecause he loved his friend
Lazarus, and so he cried forthat.
But I tend to believe too thatwhen he heard Martha and Mary
kind of complaining, if you will, because really Jesus could
have got there on time, he wasonly, it says, two miles away.
(06:25):
He could have been there andthey're saying, oh Lord, if you
were here this wouldn't havehappened.
And so he's both weeping forthe lack of faith and he's
weeping for his friend.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Now I think this would have stunned the apostles
and disciples, won the miracleitself, but watching Jesus cry
Often I use this in my funeralhomilies, if I'm able to choose
the gospel, because it shows thegreat love that God has for us.
Jesus knows that he's theresurrection in the life, he
knows the end of the story andyet he still enters into our
(07:03):
suffering, so much so that heweeps with us.
That's a God I can trust,that's a God that I could follow
through anything, because he'sthere with me even in the midst
of great suffering and trial.
And so it's.
I think it's said to be one ofthe shortest lines of Scripture,
or the shortest.
Jesus wept right, but it'ssomething that has great and
profound meaning for us, in away that we can connect to our
(07:24):
God.
And so the apostles and theJews and the disciples,
everybody around at that time,were stunned by, but in a way
that really led them to greaterbelief in Christ, especially
then as he moves into theraising of Lazarus.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And then the Jews on the sidelines.
You know you can almost hearthem rustling because they're
watching all this happen.
And, similar to the wedding atCana, a death in this time is a
community event.
Everyone's coming together at amourn.
Oftentimes there was paidmourners and the Jews are
whispering.
And back then there were paidmourners.
Oh, absolutely Wow.
(07:56):
Not just you, jordan, wipethose tears.
And but they're saying to eachother see how he loved him, see
how he loved him.
But then they start to questionwho Jesus is and they say the
one who opened the eyes of theblind.
He could have done something.
This man didn't have to die,and I love this.
(08:17):
It says Jesus perturbed again,came to the tomb and told them
open it up and the firstreaction is a human reaction.
Lord, we can't.
There'll be a stench.
It's been four days, but heinsists.
And so, even in our own livesof suffering and misery, we
think sometimes we're not goodenough to receive the voice of
(08:41):
the Lord in our hearts.
We stink, we stink.
Pope Francis always says weshould smell like the sheep, and
sheep stinks.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
There's an interesting part about that four
days.
There was a belief in ancientIsrael that the spirit of the
body would hang around for acertain amount of time, usually
around three days, and then,beyond that, would be separated
from the body, meaning that,like whenever Jesus raises
Lazarus from the dead, it beingfour days, the spirit would have
(09:09):
been yeah, he's not there.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Like Lazarus is not there, it's even more so.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, like wild to them that this is happening and
then we see that great gestureof Jewish prayer where Jesus
raises his eyes to heaven.
And so, for anyone who's everbeen at the celebration of Mass,
when we hear in the Roman Canonthe first Eucharistic prayer,
when the priest takes the bread,he raises his eyes to heaven,
(09:34):
to you, oh God, his almightyFather.
And here we see it happeningagain Jesus is raising his eyes
to his heavenly Father, callingdown the spirit of God, his own
power and divinity, to raiseLazarus.
And he seeks his Father's willfirst, and then he says those
beautiful words Lazarus come out.
And that's when the dead man,tied up and bound, walks out.
(09:59):
When I was a kid, I alwaysthought this seemed like the you
know the mommy, yeah, littlemuch toilet paper.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
You know too much toilet paper wrapped around.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Going back to Martha, Martha gives an important
testimony to Jesus's power inthe gospel when she says that
she believes that Jesus is theMessiah and Son of God.
What testimony do we give asdisciples today who we believe
that Jesus is?
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I think, even in the midst of great tragedy, which is
still saying that I don'tunderstand this fully, I can't
get the necessary grasp of allthe elements.
Why God would you allow theseterrible things to happen?
I'm thinking in my mind of theterrible fires that maybe happen
in Maui, and people askquestions about natural
disasters and why God wouldallow this and all this evil in
the world.
And how could there be a goodGod?
(10:46):
But I think in the scripturesis where we find our good God
walking beside us, who's sayingthere's a reason for this.
I have not wielded this.
I don't want evil in the world.
I want to eradicate it and getrid of it and bring everyone to
glory.
But in that we might not seeexactly how God's doing all of
that, but we can trust Himbecause he's in the struggle
(11:07):
with us, he's in the sufferingand we can find Him there.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
So today, I think, for us as believers, when we
celebrate funeral liturgies, wehear in the prayers and in the
readings and in the ritual ofthe church that we leave our
brother here, we leave oursister here in the peace of
Christ until we rise again inglory.
And so it gives us great hopewhen we hear this, where we see
(11:34):
Lazarus coming out of the tomb,knowing that when we leave our
beloved family and friends inthe tomb, in the ground, in the
grave, that that's not the endof the story.
And so this passage itself notonly shows God's power but gives
us the hope we need to pushforward and to know that this
(11:54):
world is fleeting.
We're fleeting, but theeternity to come is so much more
than anything we could have now.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
One thing I'm always struck by is that so he's
resuscitated, he comes back tolife.
But what happens to Lazarus?
Presumably down the line, he'sgoing to die again.
It's kind of like one of thosestories that we have in the
modern day where somebody passesaway.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
You know they flat line on something and they see
the light, but not four dayslike, not two days later.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yeah, he saw a lot.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
He saw more than just the light.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
He had a lot of time to contemplate.
He was there for a bit.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
He probably said Jesus, why would you bring me
back to the surface?
Speaker 3 (12:29):
That's true too, and in one of the previous podcasts,
though, about our MountRushmore people to talk to the.
Mount of Transfiguration, mountTabor.
I said Lazarus because I wouldlove to talk to him One, because
he so intimately knew Jesus.
We're told, as a friend, jesusweeps at his death, specifically
.
But then, beyond that, what didhe see?
What was that experience?
That kind of prefigured theupcoming death of Jesus, who
(12:53):
then is buried in a tomb andthen rise to his death.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
That's a good point.
I would choose Lazarus.
Now I want to know.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
It also makes me think, too, like we know that
prior to the death of Christ andhis resurrection, that the
gates of heaven were closedright.
So it's almost like Jesus isbringing Lazarus back to wait to
die again until after Jesus hasopened the gates of paradise,
Because he loves him so much hedoesn't want him to have to go
(13:19):
through that experience of beingwithout God.
And so we know Lazarus is goingto die again, and if Lazarus
died after our Lord, then hewould be able to actually die
and enter into the heavenlykingdom, which he would not have
been able to do prior to thedeath of Christ in his
resurrection.
So how much do you love yourfriends, Jordan?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
It depends on how much energy he had to like.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Expend on you, you expand so.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I mean my friends, I mean there's probably a couple
that I would want to bring backfor sure, Some other ones I'd be
like it's just not worth it.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I can yeah, I could do without it.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
How about you?
Or would you want?
Would you even want them tocome back if they're
experiencing, you know?
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Eternal bliss Isn't part of this, though.
Like whenever people die, wesay this so often in funerals
that, like funerals, wecertainly pray for those that
are the deceased and they needour prayers, especially if they
need to come to greaterperfection through purgatory
than to heaven.
But beyond that, like we prayin the funeral liturgy for the
family and for ourselves, Forthe people there, yeah because
(14:24):
we're mourning the loss ofsomebody and so, like you
mentioned, we might want tobring back somebody more than
they want to be brought back inthat sense.
If they're already reveling inthe greatness of God, they're in
a better place than we are now.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And we hope that they draw us up with that and pray
for us.
Yeah, that's why, for millennia, we've had such a great
devotion to the holy souls inpurgatory and I remember as a
kid one of our teachers tellingus in school that the more souls
in purgatory we pray for, thatas they make their way into
heaven they will pray for us,and maybe that's a selfish
(14:56):
motive, but I think I'm gonna.
We're all gonna need all thehelp we can get.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
We'll be turning out the lights in purgatory.
Exactly, we gotta end it.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
But even purgatory is a beautiful grace that the Lord
gives us a gift where we'reallowed to cleanse ourselves of
that which keeps us from Him.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
And the church explains herself in a way that's
threefold the church militant,which is us fighting for our
salvation here on earth, stillin the struggle.
Then the church suffering,those in purgatory that are
awaiting their full purificationand entrance into heaven, which
need our prayers here on earthand the help of the saints.
And then the church triumphant.
Those saints that are alreadywith God, that are praying for
(15:31):
us, that are helping those inpurgatory, that want all of us
to be drawn to God in the end.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Because they see God face to face.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Do you want to close out?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Well, I think that's all our time we've had today and
it's been great.
I don't want to drive us intothe tomb, but here we are, and
St Lazarus is a wonderfulexample for each of us to
continue to call upon the Lord.
We know that in the darkmoments of our life that he's
not only saying Lazarus, buthe's saying Jordan, he's saying
Andrew, he's saying Beth, he'scalling us to new life and to
(16:03):
freedom in him.
So it's been great to join youall again this week on the
Catholic Accent Podcast.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Wow so much better Good ending.
You're listening to the Catholic Accent Podcast.
In this podcast we discuss theacts and miracles that Jesus
performed that stunned hisdisciples.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
And we're back.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
We are Sorry.
You want to do that.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Go ahead.
Sorry, Jordan, but I'd be happyto.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
A little guest introduction.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, here we are back at the Catholic Accent
Podcast, and I'm Father ChrisPugel, and with me is Father
Andrew Hamilton and Mr JordanWhiteco from the Communications
Office here at the Diocese ofGreensburg.
That was nice.
Oh thanks.
You know.
I've been learning a lot fromyou over these past few weeks.
What are we talking about today?
Today, we are going to betalking about the wonderful
(00:38):
story of Lazarus.
That great guy from the Biblewho died, came back from the
dead stunned.
So, jordan, how about you leadus into what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (00:50):
So some will argue that the raising of Lazarus is
Jesus's most important miracleand the miracle that leads us to
Jesus's death a short timelater.
Why is this miracle so shocking?
I mean, other than obviouslysomeone's being raised from the
dead?
You got it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It's very shocking, so why did?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
this upset the Jewish leaders so much.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Well, it gives great credence to everything that
Jesus has been saying.
Right, that he's been workingthese great miracles, but one
miracle, certainly, that youcould never do, unless you were,
of course, god raising somebodyfrom the dead, and there was a
whole group of Jews who did notbelieve in the resurrection of
the dead.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Now, here, though, I think, before we dive in deep,
it's important to say that therising of Lazarus is a
resuscitation of the body.
It's not his resurrection.
Christ has been resurrectedbecause he has received his body
back in a glorified manner, inthe manner that we will receive
it on the last day when oursouls are reunited with our
(01:54):
earthly bodies and we rise fromthe tombs and all the tombs open
.
This is a resuscitation.
Where Lazarus has died, he'sbeen placed in the tomb, good
friend of Jesus.
Jesus comes to mourn hisfriend's loss and to show his
power and authority over all ofcreation.
He resuscitates him by callinginto the tomb Lazarus, come out.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Was anyone with him when he did?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
this oh yeah, the Jews were gathered around to
witness it, as well as Marthaand Mary the sisters of Lazarus
Before we even get to there,though, so one of the things
leading up to the raising ofLazarus is that Jesus is not
right at Bethany, where Lazarusand Mary and Martha live
together, but they're a littlebit far away, and he gets word
(02:40):
and message that Lazarus isessentially sick and everything
else like that.
And then he does something veryodd he waits, waits Two days.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
And so it's an interesting two days after his
death?
No, before he waits two daysfrom the moment he hears that
Lazarus is ill, so the news isbrought to him Master, the one
you love is ill.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
And Jesus heard this, and then he remained for two
days in the place where he was,and he explains it, though, to
his apostles, disciples that arewith him, that it's really
again, as we talk about theGospel of John, this is going to
be a sign.
This is going to be a sign ofChrist's glory, his ability to
raise Lazarus from the dead.
An interesting person that I'malways stunned by whenever we
(03:24):
meet him in the Scriptures is StThomas.
Right, we always remember StThomas for his doubting, but,
interestingly, in this part ofScripture, in the 11th chapter
of John, Thomas says somethingvery brave.
He says to the rest of theapostles, because they're
worried that going closer toBethany, closer to Jerusalem,
that Jesus is going to getkilled as well as all of them
(03:44):
together.
And Thomas says to the rest ofthem let us go to die with Jesus
.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Why wait two days?
Why not go immediately?
Why did he want the drama?
If you will?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Well, jesus starts to .
He obviously, as God, knowswhat he's about to do and he
wants to teach the disciplesright.
So, his rabbi, a teacher, hewants them to learn the message
of the gospel and what he's cometo do.
And so that's why, when hehears this, jesus says finally,
(04:16):
let us go to Judea.
The disciples fret They'vealready tried to stone and kill
you there, let's not.
Then we hear Thomas say let'sgo.
When he hears of Lazarus' death, jesus says something very
peculiar.
I'm glad that I was not therethat you may believe.
Now let us go to him.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Okay.
So he wanted them to see andknow that Lazarus was dead.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
In a lot of ways, this is the greatest sign.
They've seen everythingtransfiguration, everything else
down the line, but now you'reseeing, okay, god has control,
even over death itself, and thathe can even see through death
to bring life, which is hismission on the earth, which is
to bring us to the fullness ofeternal life, dwelling eternally
(05:03):
with God rather than remainingin death.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Especially since we have to remember, prior to the
fall in the garden in Genesis,there was no death.
Sin brings about death, and sowhat Jesus is doing is restoring
life and saying, yes, deathwill happen, and even he himself
will suffer death, but that'snot the end of the story.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
We hear that the wages of sin is death, and so
it's the in that way, like thenatural consequence that comes
about.
But that doesn't mean that'swhere we end, but rather Christ
takes us through that to lifeitself.
I'm always moved in thispassage as well, as Christ
coming to his good friend andcoming to Martha and Mary and
(05:47):
them saying to him Lord, had youbeen here, you could have saved
my brother.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Essentially, this wouldn't have happened, right.
Where were you, yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
And Jesus has to show them that this world isn't what
we are meant to be forever ormade for Is that why Jesus wept.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Well, in his human nature he also wept because of
their lack of faith, but alsobecause he loved his friend
Lazarus, and so he cried forthat.
But I tend to believe too thatwhen he heard Martha and Mary
kind of complaining, if you will, because really Jesus could
have got there on time, he wasonly, it says, two miles away.
(06:25):
He could have been there andthey're saying, oh Lord, if you
were here this wouldn't havehappened.
And so he's both weeping forthe lack of faith and he's
weeping for his friend.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Now I think this would have stunned the apostles
and disciples, won the miracleitself, but watching Jesus cry
Often I use this in my funeralhomilies, if I'm able to choose
the gospel, because it shows thegreat love that God has for us.
Jesus knows that he's theresurrection in the life, he
knows the end of the story andyet he still enters into our
(07:03):
suffering, so much so that heweeps with us.
That's a God I can trust,that's a God that I could follow
through anything, because he'sthere with me even in the midst
of great suffering and trial.
And so it's.
I think it's said to be one ofthe shortest lines of Scripture,
or the shortest.
Jesus wept right, but it'ssomething that has great and
profound meaning for us, in away that we can connect to our
(07:24):
God.
And so the apostles and theJews and the disciples,
everybody around at that time,were stunned by, but in a way
that really led them to greaterbelief in Christ, especially
then as he moves into theraising of Lazarus.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And then the Jews on the sidelines.
You know you can almost hearthem rustling because they're
watching all this happen.
And, similar to the wedding atCana, a death in this time is a
community event.
Everyone's coming together at amourn.
Oftentimes there was paidmourners and the Jews are
whispering.
And back then there were paidmourners.
Oh, absolutely Wow.
(07:56):
Not just you, jordan, wipethose tears.
And but they're saying to eachother see how he loved him, see
how he loved him.
But then they start to questionwho Jesus is and they say the
one who opened the eyes of theblind.
He could have done something.
This man didn't have to die,and I love this.
(08:17):
It says Jesus perturbed again,came to the tomb and told them
open it up and the firstreaction is a human reaction.
Lord, we can't.
There'll be a stench.
It's been four days, but heinsists.
And so, even in our own livesof suffering and misery, we
think sometimes we're not goodenough to receive the voice of
(08:41):
the Lord in our hearts.
We stink, we stink.
Pope Francis always says weshould smell like the sheep, and
sheep stinks.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
There's an interesting part about that four
days.
There was a belief in ancientIsrael that the spirit of the
body would hang around for acertain amount of time, usually
around three days, and then,beyond that, would be separated
from the body, meaning that,like whenever Jesus raises
Lazarus from the dead, it beingfour days, the spirit would have
(09:09):
been yeah, he's not there.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Like Lazarus is not there, it's even more so.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, like wild to them that this is happening and
then we see that great gestureof Jewish prayer where Jesus
raises his eyes to heaven.
And so, for anyone who's everbeen at the celebration of Mass,
when we hear in the Roman Canonthe first Eucharistic prayer,
when the priest takes the bread,he raises his eyes to heaven,
(09:34):
to you, oh God, his almightyFather.
And here we see it happeningagain Jesus is raising his eyes
to his heavenly Father, callingdown the spirit of God, his own
power and divinity, to raiseLazarus.
And he seeks his Father's willfirst, and then he says those
beautiful words Lazarus come out.
And that's when the dead man,tied up and bound, walks out.
(09:59):
When I was a kid, I alwaysthought this seemed like the you
know the mommy, yeah, littlemuch toilet paper.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
You know too much toilet paper wrapped around.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Going back to Martha, Martha gives an important
testimony to Jesus's power inthe gospel when she says that
she believes that Jesus is theMessiah and Son of God.
What testimony do we give asdisciples today who we believe
that Jesus is?
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I think, even in the midst of great tragedy, which is
still saying that I don'tunderstand this fully, I can't
get the necessary grasp of allthe elements.
Why God would you allow theseterrible things to happen?
I'm thinking in my mind of theterrible fires that maybe happen
in Maui, and people askquestions about natural
disasters and why God wouldallow this and all this evil in
the world.
And how could there be a goodGod?
(10:46):
But I think in the scripturesis where we find our good God
walking beside us, who's sayingthere's a reason for this.
I have not wielded this.
I don't want evil in the world.
I want to eradicate it and getrid of it and bring everyone to
glory.
But in that we might not seeexactly how God's doing all of
that, but we can trust Himbecause he's in the struggle
(11:07):
with us, he's in the sufferingand we can find Him there.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
So today, I think, for us as believers, when we
celebrate funeral liturgies, wehear in the prayers and in the
readings and in the ritual ofthe church that we leave our
brother here, we leave oursister here in the peace of
Christ until we rise again inglory.
And so it gives us great hopewhen we hear this, where we see
(11:34):
Lazarus coming out of the tomb,knowing that when we leave our
beloved family and friends inthe tomb, in the ground, in the
grave, that that's not the endof the story.
And so this passage itself notonly shows God's power but gives
us the hope we need to pushforward and to know that this
(11:54):
world is fleeting.
We're fleeting, but theeternity to come is so much more
than anything we could have now.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
One thing I'm always struck by is that so he's
resuscitated, he comes back tolife.
But what happens to Lazarus?
Presumably down the line, he'sgoing to die again.
It's kind of like one of thosestories that we have in the
modern day where somebody passesaway.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
You know they flat line on something and they see
the light, but not four dayslike, not two days later.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yeah, he saw a lot.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
He saw more than just the light.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
He had a lot of time to contemplate.
He was there for a bit.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
He probably said Jesus, why would you bring me
back to the surface?
Speaker 3 (12:29):
That's true too, and in one of the previous podcasts,
though, about our MountRushmore people to talk to the.
Mount of Transfiguration, mountTabor.
I said Lazarus because I wouldlove to talk to him One, because
he so intimately knew Jesus.
We're told, as a friend, jesusweeps at his death, specifically
.
But then, beyond that, what didhe see?
What was that experience?
That kind of prefigured theupcoming death of Jesus, who
(12:53):
then is buried in a tomb andthen rise to his death.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
That's a good point.
I would choose Lazarus.
Now I want to know.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
It also makes me think, too, like we know that
prior to the death of Christ andhis resurrection, that the
gates of heaven were closedright.
So it's almost like Jesus isbringing Lazarus back to wait to
die again until after Jesus hasopened the gates of paradise,
Because he loves him so much hedoesn't want him to have to go
(13:19):
through that experience of beingwithout God.
And so we know Lazarus is goingto die again, and if Lazarus
died after our Lord, then hewould be able to actually die
and enter into the heavenlykingdom, which he would not have
been able to do prior to thedeath of Christ in his
resurrection.
So how much do you love yourfriends, Jordan?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
It depends on how much energy he had to like.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Expend on you, you expand so.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I mean my friends, I mean there's probably a couple
that I would want to bring backfor sure, Some other ones I'd be
like it's just not worth it.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I can yeah, I could do without it.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
How about you?
Or would you want?
Would you even want them tocome back if they're
experiencing, you know?
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Eternal bliss Isn't part of this, though.
Like whenever people die, wesay this so often in funerals
that, like funerals, wecertainly pray for those that
are the deceased and they needour prayers, especially if they
need to come to greaterperfection through purgatory
than to heaven.
But beyond that, like we prayin the funeral liturgy for the
family and for ourselves, Forthe people there, yeah because
(14:24):
we're mourning the loss ofsomebody and so, like you
mentioned, we might want tobring back somebody more than
they want to be brought back inthat sense.
If they're already reveling inthe greatness of God, they're in
a better place than we are now.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And we hope that they draw us up with that and pray
for us.
Yeah, that's why, for millennia, we've had such a great
devotion to the holy souls inpurgatory and I remember as a
kid one of our teachers tellingus in school that the more souls
in purgatory we pray for, thatas they make their way into
heaven they will pray for us,and maybe that's a selfish
(14:56):
motive, but I think I'm gonna.
We're all gonna need all thehelp we can get.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
We'll be turning out the lights in purgatory.
Exactly, we gotta end it.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
But even purgatory is a beautiful grace that the Lord
gives us a gift where we'reallowed to cleanse ourselves of
that which keeps us from Him.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
And the church explains herself in a way that's
threefold the church militant,which is us fighting for our
salvation here on earth, stillin the struggle.
Then the church suffering,those in purgatory that are
awaiting their full purificationand entrance into heaven, which
need our prayers here on earthand the help of the saints.
And then the church triumphant.
Those saints that are alreadywith God, that are praying for
(15:31):
us, that are helping those inpurgatory, that want all of us
to be drawn to God in the end.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Because they see God face to face.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Do you want to close out?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Well, I think that's all our time we've had today and
it's been great.
I don't want to drive us intothe tomb, but here we are, and
St Lazarus is a wonderfulexample for each of us to
continue to call upon the Lord.
We know that in the darkmoments of our life that he's
not only saying Lazarus, buthe's saying Jordan, he's saying
Andrew, he's saying Beth, he'scalling us to new life and to
(16:03):
freedom in him.
So it's been great to join youall again this week on the
Catholic Accent Podcast.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Wow so much better Good ending.
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