December 18, 2023 β’ 16 mins
What if the pivotal moment of your faith was born from doubt and disbelief? Picture this: The disciples, huddled in an upper room, fear etched onto their faces as they grappled with the crucifixion of Jesus. Understandably, they were skeptical when the women came bearing news of an empty tomb. In a stunning turn of events, Jesus, in his glorified body, appears among them, passing through locked doors as if they were mere illusions. This bodily resurrection is a crucial aspect of Christian faith, affirming the redemption of all aspects of humanity.
Navigating the complexities of faith and doubt is not a straightforward journey, but it is one that we are all invited to embark on. Take Thomas, for example. His initial disbelief of the resurrection was transformed into unwavering faith when he saw and believed. Echoing his declaration of "my Lord, my God" during the consecration of the Eucharist serves as a profound profession of faith for all believers. The Sabbath, the role of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the transformative events that took place in that upper room weave together to form a sacred tapestry that speaks to the power of faith, the struggle with doubt, and the ultimate belief in God's providence. Join us as we ponder these divine mysteries and find ourselves immersed in the true presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to the Catholic Accent Podcast.
In this podcast we discuss theacts and miracles that Jesus
performed that stunned hisdisciples.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Here we are for episode nine.
If you don't know us by now,you're never going to know us.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
This episode we're going to talk about the upper
room.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Well, we have to remember that right now, jesus
has already been crucified,right.
The disciples have seen theirbeloved master and teacher and
friend tortured, arrested,scourged and died.
So because of that, they'refearful and they're filled with
so much fear that they go backto where they celebrated the
last supper, in the upper room,and they lock the doors for fear
(00:38):
that the same thing is going tohappen to them.
So you have the disciples upthere, you have Mary up there
with them, and this is when,following the resurrection of
the Lord, that really everythingbegins to change, because a
group of them go to the tomb thewomen and they go to anoint
Jesus's body and when they getthere, stones rolled away,
(01:03):
there's no body to be found, andthat's where this episode's
really beginning.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
They're already afraid what the Jewish leaders,
along with the Roman powers,could do to them because they
killed Jesus, who they believedto be God.
Beyond that, if somebody elsehad stolen the body because
you've got to remember, thedisciples of Jesus are not just
the twelve apostles, there's abig band of people that have
followed Christ.
At this point, so say, somebodyelse went and took the body of
(01:29):
Christ out of the tomb and thenhas taken it.
Well, they know if that'sexactly what the Romans wanted
to guard against, and now thatthat's happened, they could come
persecute the people that theyknew followed Jesus directly,
which would be them, absolutelyAll right.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
And so following now so this piece here about the
appearance.
This is post resurrection.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Before we do that, before we talk about his
appearance, let's go back alittle bit.
Right now it's just the womenwere credited first, but they
don't know why that's important,so the women weren't.
The women were witnesses, butback then they were not able to
to be credible witnesses rightIn some sense to the evangelists
.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
why write down that the women had testified this?
Because it wouldn't have been aproof of the time that this was
true?
They put it in there because itactually happened, not because
they're trying necessarily tojust like prove the best exact
right.
And it becomes the question whywould the disciples not just
believe the women, right?
These are some of the womenthat closely followed Jesus,
that were with him all the time.
They were with the apostles.
(02:31):
They knew them, so why didn'tthey just believe their
testimony outright?
One in the historical contextin ancient Judaism and this time
in the world, women's testimonywas not given full weight of
force in courtroom or anywhereelse, and so that might have
been one of the reasons why theyalso didn't believe that, but a
secondary one in our ownexperience.
This is a traumatic event foreverybody that's going through
(02:53):
this.
So whenever people go throughtrauma, sometimes people see
things or talk about things.
Maybe that aren't exactly thecase or this understanding, and
they could have been thinkingthat there's other explanations
to, even as the disciples, thosethat have heard that Jesus is
supposed to raise from the dead,that there's to be a
resurrection.
They could have started toexplain it away in their minds
as well.
It's just a natural thing.
(03:13):
Some other disciples came andstole the body away and are
trying to get us in trouble.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
So the disciples then go with the women to the tomb.
They see Jesus.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, we see Peter running then to the tomb.
And then they find the emptytomb as well.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
And then they go back to the upper room to like talk
about, to discuss what couldhave happened Right, exactly,
and they still have to protectthemselves because, now you have
the Jews after them and theRomans after them, and they
can't really totally understandyet what's happening.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So they go back to the upper room and lock the
doors.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And then it wasn't until then, when they're, like
you know, basically freaking outas I am sure they have the
doors locked behind you and thenJesus appears.
After what they witnessedhappen you know they killed him,
so he's appearing now as thisfigure.
How shocking do you think thatwould have been?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
And I think that the important part here too is it's
a resurrected body of Christ,not a resuscitated right.
Like.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Lazarus, right, yeah, it's not Lazarus If we're going
back to Lazarus.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
It's not that they're just seeing Jesus as if, like
they saw him before and he justhas a couple wound marks or this
or that, or he's completelyhealed, but it's.
It's in a new form, in a waythat's stunning to them, in a
resurrected form, that there'ssomething different there than
what was before especially as wesee him pass through the locked
doors.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So they're right, and you know they keep saying
locked, locked, locked, becausethey're saying we didn't open
the doors to Jesus.
He came into our midst passingthrough the closed doors.
So there's something alsotransformed in his being and in
his body, his resurrected,glorified body.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
And we should make note too that the church has
always spoken about.
It's not just some spiritualresurrection, but it's a bodily
resurrection.
Why?
Because everything that we havein this life is redeemed by God
.
It's not that he just leaves usthe body, apart from the soul,
that somehow the soul is good,the spirit's good and the body
is bad.
That's a wrong, that's a wrongunderstanding.
(05:15):
That's an early thing that wascondemned in the church, that
rather, the whole, integral partof the human being is good and
is to be redeemed.
God came to redeem everything,not just some things.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
So did he knock before he came in.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
It's hard to say.
I don't think so.
I think he would have justappeared.
He just appeared.
Jesus does knock at the door.
But yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So then, when Jesus comes through those locked doors
, the very first thing he saysis Peace, be with you.
And so that's so important,because what he's doing, he sees
the fear in their faces I mean,I'm sure that it was palpable
in that room and he's givingthem peace, his peace, the peace
of God.
That can only calm their hearts.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
And one other thing I had a big thesis I had to write
to finish seminary.
But I focused a lot on thispassage where he says Peace be
upon you, peace to you.
Now, if you were a best friendof somebody and you were
supposed to be loyal to them andall things, and y'all ran away,
other than one guy, john,wouldn't you be a little bit
afraid of that friend comingback and being like guys, what's
(06:17):
going?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
on.
We're being angry.
You left me in my darkest hourand even thinking about maybe
like the wrath of God.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
So it's not just that they're afraid, maybe even of
the Jews, but they're a littlebit fearful of like we've
betrayed the Lord.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And what's he going to do to us?
We didn't stand by him in hishour.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
But rather, when Christ comes back, he says peace
be upon you.
He doesn't hold it and loft itover them as a weapon to hit
them over the head with.
But there's no grudge.
Oh, it's true, so it's not like, like.
So they would be afraid, notjust because Jesus appeared was
resurrected, but like oh he'sresurrected and he's come back
to you know he could come backon a vengeance.
Yeah, to take care of business.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
So there were some Christians that state the
physical resurrection of Jesusis not important, but rather
that the disciples believe thatJesus was alive in their hearts.
Catholics have alwayshighlighted the physical
resurrection of Jesus.
Why is this bodily resurrectionso important to Catholics?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
If the bodily resurrection didn't happen then
I don't think either of us wouldbe sitting here, because it all
relies on the bodilyresurrection of Christ.
And we know it's so importantbecause from the very earliest
days, the disciples and theapostles allowed themselves to
be martyred in belief of thebodily resurrection.
(07:32):
Because if we believe that andhold that to be true, and we
know that it's factual, thatnothing else in the world
matters, because at the end ofthe day our body and soul will
be reunited in a glorifiedmanner to be with God forever,
and that's the kingdom that theJews had waited for ages and
(07:53):
ages, that's the true kingdom ofGod, with the new heaven and
new earth at the second comingof Christ.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
And God came to recreate the entirety of the
world.
So one of the interesting parts, of the interesting parts about
that is normally the Sabbathwas the day that God rested,
which was Saturday for theJewish people.
Well, what do we now have asthe Sabbath, like in the New
Testament?
Sunday It'd really be in thatorder.
It's like the eighth day ofcreation, which is the
(08:19):
restoration of all that wentwrong.
And so Christ tries to bringforth recreation of everything
Again.
He doesn't just leave thecreated order, the physical
world, untouched and just leaveit to rot away, but rather to
bringing it to its fulfillment,which is in the resurrection,
the bodily, physicalresurrection.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
And the beauty of Christ's bodily resurrection is
also that he maintains Hiswounds, so like we as humanity
were a wounded people right bysin, by issues that happen in
our lives.
And Christ also redeems ourwoundedness and he holds on to
those wounds in His hands andfeet and His side, because
that's where he enters intohumanity is through our
(08:58):
sinfulness and through ourwoundedness.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
One way that I would like people to think about even
this passage that we're talkingabout in the upper room and
Christ bringing peace, is withinthe liturgy.
Go in the mass after we say theOur Father together, there's a
prayer that the priest will saybefore we offer each other the
sign of peace.
He says, looking now at,literally, jesus present on the
(09:21):
altar.
Lord Jesus Christ, who said toyour apostles peace I leave you,
my peace I give you.
Look not upon our sins but onthe faith of your church.
That is exactly what Christ,coming to the apostles, would
say to them peace I leave you,my peace I give you.
I'm not looking upon your sins,of your betrayal of me, of your
weakness, but rather I'mtrusting in your faith going
(09:44):
forward, that you, as the church, will bring this great
sacrament of salvation, the goodnews, to others.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So you're telling us that you know, when Jesus came
back and talked to his disciples, it wasn't formalis or, you
know, revenge or anything.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Which is revenge is what that like in many ways the
ancient cultures.
It's all about revenge.
If you do unto me, I do untoyou.
Think about that law, right,the?
We call that homerabi's code.
You know, if you plug, my eye tofor a trick and so Christ comes
to say that's not the wayforward.
Love your enemies.
Forgive and reconciliation isthe way in which we move forward
(10:22):
.
Remember in the Our Father too,my brothers and sisters, that
it says what Forgive us ourtrespasses, as we forgive those
who trespass against us.
We ask for the forgiveness ofGod only if we're willing to
forgive, because he has forgivenus first, even in the midst of
our great sins and the ways inwhich that we've betrayed him.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
When Jesus comes back and is in that upper room with
his disciples that he, just youknow, appeared through the
locked door.
One of the first encounters Ihave in my notes is that he
breathes on them and saysreceive the Holy Spirit.
So what's the connectionbetween breath and spirit in
(11:04):
this gospel passage?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah.
So if we look at all ofScripture, we see breath as that
great the wind sweeps over thewaters in Genesis.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
It's a recreation right.
Life comes from that.
So what does God wish to giveto us?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
To impart us his divine life and God breathes
into Adam, he breathes into him,and even today in our liturgy
we were talking about HolyThursday in the last episode and
one of the other liturgies onHoly Thursday morning at the
chrysm Mass, where Bishopconsecrates and blesses the oils
for the year.
During the consecration ofsacred chrysm, he breathes into
(11:46):
the oil.
It's a sign of God's life beingimparted into the earthly
reality.
And so now we have God, in theperson of Jesus Christ,
breathing on his apostles, andhe's giving them authority and
he's giving them new life.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
So what do you think is going on during this week
following the resurrection inthe upper room?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I think debate amongst what went on.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Debate again.
Debate amongst who?
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Amongst the apostles, amongst the other disciples.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
What is actually going on?
What happened?
Maybe a lot of regret,Obviously.
I think that that would bethere, that we should have
stayed by his side and not ranaway.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
If they could believe the women.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
I would like to think as well, too, that the Apostle
John is able to give a lot ofthe details of everything right,
because he's directly presentright there.
Where's the Blessed Virgin Maryat this point?
Well, we would think that she'swith the apostles.
She would probably be onethat's pretty wise, as we
understand it, maybe start toexplain everything, and so
they're probably formulating aplan going forward and in the
midst of them formulating thatplan and what they're all going
(12:48):
to do, that's when Jesus breaksinto it.
And I think we understand thatin our own lives, which every
time we make a plan and we haveevery angle we think covered,
the Lord shows us a differentway.
He comes in from a differentangle.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
He comes through a locked door and then he shows us
the way forward, or a lockedheart.
But then we also have toremember that not all the
disciples, not all the apostleswere in the upper room.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, Thomas wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, poor guy, he gets a bad rap.
But Thomas really does show, Ithink, where each of us find
ourselves very often in just thesimple doubt of did this happen
?
And he had to be so jealous?
Right, everyone's telling himthey just saw the Lord, that
he's back from the dead, that hewas in their midst and he's
like why did leave?
(13:31):
I had you know what was hedoing, you know where was it.
Why wouldn't he be there?
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So we don't know where he was.
Doesn't say.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
No, we just wasn't there, so we just have to
speculate.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
And they were so excited to tell him, like
imagine, you know, I thinkgrowing up, like you know,
you're planning on going to yourfriend's house and you get
there a little bit late they'relike cracking up and you're like
what's the joke?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Oh, you had to be there, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
And now he's missed out on all of this.
And so you can see he's almostlike throwing a tantrum.
I can just see him like sittingdown being angry like fine, I
don't believe you until I put myhand in his side and touch his
wounds and see him myself.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
And I think it's easy to doubt.
We can live in a world ofspeculation and doubt and never
really accept anything.
How do you really know, mm?
Hmm, you know, I've even heardpeople say well, how do you
really know that?
Abraham?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Lincoln was alive?
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Were you there, like we have these records of him,
how do you know Jesus was alive,that he actually walked this
earth and so forth?
We have accounts of that,certainly, but at some point,
multiple people in differentplaces.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
There's really really good evidence to believe that.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
But you could always enter into that.
Well, how could I really reallyknow?
Couldn't it just been aconspiracy and all these other
things and so forth?
It wasn't the body just stolen,right?
And I think radical doubt is away that we can't live.
You can't doubt everythingaround you and still enter into
meaningful relationships.
There's always a given, a take,like I can't doubt that we're
friends here, you know, aroundthis table I could always doubt,
(14:56):
like, well, maybe they're justreally treating me nice and
you're putting on a show for me.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
He's on to us yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
He figured it out.
It's a conspiracy, but in mostrelationships we have to have
that element of trust that'spart of our faith, that we trust
that God's providence sees usthrough and that we trust that
what's been written down isactually true and has been
handed to us for our good and isinspired by the Holy Spirit, so
it can't be an untruth.
But Thomas shows us the oppositeside of that of doubting.
(15:21):
But then, thankfully, the Lordin his providence shows Thomas
directly right, comes to him,put your hand in my side and
then even eats in front of them.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
When does he do that?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
The next this is later A week later.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
He's back next Sunday , and then Thomas sees him and
just in all says my Lord, my God, and I think for a lot of our
listeners and viewers.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
This is why he's called doubting Thomas.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Well, yeah, but but really, at the end we see his
redemption.
See, the doubt is the beginningand at the end he's truly
believing and he sees Christ.
He says that great professionof faith my Lord, my God.
And a lot of our listeners andviewers have that great devotion
, the highest practice, that atthe moment of the consecration
and the elevation of the hostand at the moment of the
(16:08):
consecration and elevation ofthe chalice, they'll say to
themselves my Lord and my God,it's a profession of faith and
believing in the true presencein the Eucharist.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Thanks for listening to the Catholic Accent Podcast.
Don't forget to follow, likeand subscribe to our show.
You're listening to the Catholic Accent Podcast.
In this podcast we discuss theacts and miracles that Jesus
performed that stunned hisdisciples.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Here we are for episode nine.
If you don't know us by now,you're never going to know us.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
This episode we're going to talk about the upper
room.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Well, we have to remember that right now, jesus
has already been crucified,right.
The disciples have seen theirbeloved master and teacher and
friend tortured, arrested,scourged and died.
So because of that, they'refearful and they're filled with
so much fear that they go backto where they celebrated the
last supper, in the upper room,and they lock the doors for fear
(00:38):
that the same thing is going tohappen to them.
So you have the disciples upthere, you have Mary up there
with them, and this is when,following the resurrection of
the Lord, that really everythingbegins to change, because a
group of them go to the tomb thewomen and they go to anoint
Jesus's body and when they getthere, stones rolled away,
(01:03):
there's no body to be found, andthat's where this episode's
really beginning.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
They're already afraid what the Jewish leaders,
along with the Roman powers,could do to them because they
killed Jesus, who they believedto be God.
Beyond that, if somebody elsehad stolen the body because
you've got to remember, thedisciples of Jesus are not just
the twelve apostles, there's abig band of people that have
followed Christ.
At this point, so say, somebodyelse went and took the body of
(01:29):
Christ out of the tomb and thenhas taken it.
Well, they know if that'sexactly what the Romans wanted
to guard against, and now thatthat's happened, they could come
persecute the people that theyknew followed Jesus directly,
which would be them, absolutelyAll right.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
And so following now so this piece here about the
appearance.
This is post resurrection.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Before we do that, before we talk about his
appearance, let's go back alittle bit.
Right now it's just the womenwere credited first, but they
don't know why that's important,so the women weren't.
The women were witnesses, butback then they were not able to
to be credible witnesses rightIn some sense to the evangelists
.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
why write down that the women had testified this?
Because it wouldn't have been aproof of the time that this was
true?
They put it in there because itactually happened, not because
they're trying necessarily tojust like prove the best exact
right.
And it becomes the question whywould the disciples not just
believe the women, right?
These are some of the womenthat closely followed Jesus,
that were with him all the time.
They were with the apostles.
(02:31):
They knew them, so why didn'tthey just believe their
testimony outright?
One in the historical contextin ancient Judaism and this time
in the world, women's testimonywas not given full weight of
force in courtroom or anywhereelse, and so that might have
been one of the reasons why theyalso didn't believe that, but a
secondary one in our ownexperience.
This is a traumatic event foreverybody that's going through
(02:53):
this.
So whenever people go throughtrauma, sometimes people see
things or talk about things.
Maybe that aren't exactly thecase or this understanding, and
they could have been thinkingthat there's other explanations
to, even as the disciples, thosethat have heard that Jesus is
supposed to raise from the dead,that there's to be a
resurrection.
They could have started toexplain it away in their minds
as well.
It's just a natural thing.
(03:13):
Some other disciples came andstole the body away and are
trying to get us in trouble.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
So the disciples then go with the women to the tomb.
They see Jesus.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, we see Peter running then to the tomb.
And then they find the emptytomb as well.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
And then they go back to the upper room to like talk
about, to discuss what couldhave happened Right, exactly,
and they still have to protectthemselves because, now you have
the Jews after them and theRomans after them, and they
can't really totally understandyet what's happening.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So they go back to the upper room and lock the
doors.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And then it wasn't until then, when they're, like
you know, basically freaking outas I am sure they have the
doors locked behind you and thenJesus appears.
After what they witnessedhappen you know they killed him,
so he's appearing now as thisfigure.
How shocking do you think thatwould have been?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
And I think that the important part here too is it's
a resurrected body of Christ,not a resuscitated right.
Like.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Lazarus, right, yeah, it's not Lazarus If we're going
back to Lazarus.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
It's not that they're just seeing Jesus as if, like
they saw him before and he justhas a couple wound marks or this
or that, or he's completelyhealed, but it's.
It's in a new form, in a waythat's stunning to them, in a
resurrected form, that there'ssomething different there than
what was before especially as wesee him pass through the locked
doors.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So they're right, and you know they keep saying
locked, locked, locked, becausethey're saying we didn't open
the doors to Jesus.
He came into our midst passingthrough the closed doors.
So there's something alsotransformed in his being and in
his body, his resurrected,glorified body.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
And we should make note too that the church has
always spoken about.
It's not just some spiritualresurrection, but it's a bodily
resurrection.
Why?
Because everything that we havein this life is redeemed by God
.
It's not that he just leaves usthe body, apart from the soul,
that somehow the soul is good,the spirit's good and the body
is bad.
That's a wrong, that's a wrongunderstanding.
(05:15):
That's an early thing that wascondemned in the church, that
rather, the whole, integral partof the human being is good and
is to be redeemed.
God came to redeem everything,not just some things.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
So did he knock before he came in.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
It's hard to say.
I don't think so.
I think he would have justappeared.
He just appeared.
Jesus does knock at the door.
But yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So then, when Jesus comes through those locked doors
, the very first thing he saysis Peace, be with you.
And so that's so important,because what he's doing, he sees
the fear in their faces I mean,I'm sure that it was palpable
in that room and he's givingthem peace, his peace, the peace
of God.
That can only calm their hearts.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
And one other thing I had a big thesis I had to write
to finish seminary.
But I focused a lot on thispassage where he says Peace be
upon you, peace to you.
Now, if you were a best friendof somebody and you were
supposed to be loyal to them andall things, and y'all ran away,
other than one guy, john,wouldn't you be a little bit
afraid of that friend comingback and being like guys, what's
(06:17):
going?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
on.
We're being angry.
You left me in my darkest hourand even thinking about maybe
like the wrath of God.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
So it's not just that they're afraid, maybe even of
the Jews, but they're a littlebit fearful of like we've
betrayed the Lord.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And what's he going to do to us?
We didn't stand by him in hishour.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
But rather, when Christ comes back, he says peace
be upon you.
He doesn't hold it and loft itover them as a weapon to hit
them over the head with.
But there's no grudge.
Oh, it's true, so it's not like, like.
So they would be afraid, notjust because Jesus appeared was
resurrected, but like oh he'sresurrected and he's come back
to you know he could come backon a vengeance.
Yeah, to take care of business.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
So there were some Christians that state the
physical resurrection of Jesusis not important, but rather
that the disciples believe thatJesus was alive in their hearts.
Catholics have alwayshighlighted the physical
resurrection of Jesus.
Why is this bodily resurrectionso important to Catholics?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
If the bodily resurrection didn't happen then
I don't think either of us wouldbe sitting here, because it all
relies on the bodilyresurrection of Christ.
And we know it's so importantbecause from the very earliest
days, the disciples and theapostles allowed themselves to
be martyred in belief of thebodily resurrection.
(07:32):
Because if we believe that andhold that to be true, and we
know that it's factual, thatnothing else in the world
matters, because at the end ofthe day our body and soul will
be reunited in a glorifiedmanner to be with God forever,
and that's the kingdom that theJews had waited for ages and
(07:53):
ages, that's the true kingdom ofGod, with the new heaven and
new earth at the second comingof Christ.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
And God came to recreate the entirety of the
world.
So one of the interesting parts, of the interesting parts about
that is normally the Sabbathwas the day that God rested,
which was Saturday for theJewish people.
Well, what do we now have asthe Sabbath, like in the New
Testament?
Sunday It'd really be in thatorder.
It's like the eighth day ofcreation, which is the
(08:19):
restoration of all that wentwrong.
And so Christ tries to bringforth recreation of everything
Again.
He doesn't just leave thecreated order, the physical
world, untouched and just leaveit to rot away, but rather to
bringing it to its fulfillment,which is in the resurrection,
the bodily, physicalresurrection.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
And the beauty of Christ's bodily resurrection is
also that he maintains Hiswounds, so like we as humanity
were a wounded people right bysin, by issues that happen in
our lives.
And Christ also redeems ourwoundedness and he holds on to
those wounds in His hands andfeet and His side, because
that's where he enters intohumanity is through our
(08:58):
sinfulness and through ourwoundedness.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
One way that I would like people to think about even
this passage that we're talkingabout in the upper room and
Christ bringing peace, is withinthe liturgy.
Go in the mass after we say theOur Father together, there's a
prayer that the priest will saybefore we offer each other the
sign of peace.
He says, looking now at,literally, jesus present on the
(09:21):
altar.
Lord Jesus Christ, who said toyour apostles peace I leave you,
my peace I give you.
Look not upon our sins but onthe faith of your church.
That is exactly what Christ,coming to the apostles, would
say to them peace I leave you,my peace I give you.
I'm not looking upon your sins,of your betrayal of me, of your
weakness, but rather I'mtrusting in your faith going
(09:44):
forward, that you, as the church, will bring this great
sacrament of salvation, the goodnews, to others.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So you're telling us that you know, when Jesus came
back and talked to his disciples, it wasn't formalis or, you
know, revenge or anything.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Which is revenge is what that like in many ways the
ancient cultures.
It's all about revenge.
If you do unto me, I do untoyou.
Think about that law, right,the?
We call that homerabi's code.
You know, if you plug, my eye tofor a trick and so Christ comes
to say that's not the wayforward.
Love your enemies.
Forgive and reconciliation isthe way in which we move forward
(10:22):
.
Remember in the Our Father too,my brothers and sisters, that
it says what Forgive us ourtrespasses, as we forgive those
who trespass against us.
We ask for the forgiveness ofGod only if we're willing to
forgive, because he has forgivenus first, even in the midst of
our great sins and the ways inwhich that we've betrayed him.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
When Jesus comes back and is in that upper room with
his disciples that he, just youknow, appeared through the
locked door.
One of the first encounters Ihave in my notes is that he
breathes on them and saysreceive the Holy Spirit.
So what's the connectionbetween breath and spirit in
(11:04):
this gospel passage?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah.
So if we look at all ofScripture, we see breath as that
great the wind sweeps over thewaters in Genesis.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
It's a recreation right.
Life comes from that.
So what does God wish to giveto us?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
To impart us his divine life and God breathes
into Adam, he breathes into him,and even today in our liturgy
we were talking about HolyThursday in the last episode and
one of the other liturgies onHoly Thursday morning at the
chrysm Mass, where Bishopconsecrates and blesses the oils
for the year.
During the consecration ofsacred chrysm, he breathes into
(11:46):
the oil.
It's a sign of God's life beingimparted into the earthly
reality.
And so now we have God, in theperson of Jesus Christ,
breathing on his apostles, andhe's giving them authority and
he's giving them new life.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
So what do you think is going on during this week
following the resurrection inthe upper room?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I think debate amongst what went on.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Debate again.
Debate amongst who?
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Amongst the apostles, amongst the other disciples.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
What is actually going on?
What happened?
Maybe a lot of regret,Obviously.
I think that that would bethere, that we should have
stayed by his side and not ranaway.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
If they could believe the women.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
I would like to think as well, too, that the Apostle
John is able to give a lot ofthe details of everything right,
because he's directly presentright there.
Where's the Blessed Virgin Maryat this point?
Well, we would think that she'swith the apostles.
She would probably be onethat's pretty wise, as we
understand it, maybe start toexplain everything, and so
they're probably formulating aplan going forward and in the
midst of them formulating thatplan and what they're all going
(12:48):
to do, that's when Jesus breaksinto it.
And I think we understand thatin our own lives, which every
time we make a plan and we haveevery angle we think covered,
the Lord shows us a differentway.
He comes in from a differentangle.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
He comes through a locked door and then he shows us
the way forward, or a lockedheart.
But then we also have toremember that not all the
disciples, not all the apostleswere in the upper room.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, Thomas wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, poor guy, he gets a bad rap.
But Thomas really does show, Ithink, where each of us find
ourselves very often in just thesimple doubt of did this happen
?
And he had to be so jealous?
Right, everyone's telling himthey just saw the Lord, that
he's back from the dead, that hewas in their midst and he's
like why did leave?
(13:31):
I had you know what was hedoing, you know where was it.
Why wouldn't he be there?
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So we don't know where he was.
Doesn't say.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
No, we just wasn't there, so we just have to
speculate.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
And they were so excited to tell him, like
imagine, you know, I thinkgrowing up, like you know,
you're planning on going to yourfriend's house and you get
there a little bit late they'relike cracking up and you're like
what's the joke?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Oh, you had to be there, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
And now he's missed out on all of this.
And so you can see he's almostlike throwing a tantrum.
I can just see him like sittingdown being angry like fine, I
don't believe you until I put myhand in his side and touch his
wounds and see him myself.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
And I think it's easy to doubt.
We can live in a world ofspeculation and doubt and never
really accept anything.
How do you really know, mm?
Hmm, you know, I've even heardpeople say well, how do you
really know that?
Abraham?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Lincoln was alive?
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Were you there, like we have these records of him,
how do you know Jesus was alive,that he actually walked this
earth and so forth?
We have accounts of that,certainly, but at some point,
multiple people in differentplaces.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
There's really really good evidence to believe that.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
But you could always enter into that.
Well, how could I really reallyknow?
Couldn't it just been aconspiracy and all these other
things and so forth?
It wasn't the body just stolen,right?
And I think radical doubt is away that we can't live.
You can't doubt everythingaround you and still enter into
meaningful relationships.
There's always a given, a take,like I can't doubt that we're
friends here, you know, aroundthis table I could always doubt,
(14:56):
like, well, maybe they're justreally treating me nice and
you're putting on a show for me.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
He's on to us yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
He figured it out.
It's a conspiracy, but in mostrelationships we have to have
that element of trust that'spart of our faith, that we trust
that God's providence sees usthrough and that we trust that
what's been written down isactually true and has been
handed to us for our good and isinspired by the Holy Spirit, so
it can't be an untruth.
But Thomas shows us the oppositeside of that of doubting.
(15:21):
But then, thankfully, the Lordin his providence shows Thomas
directly right, comes to him,put your hand in my side and
then even eats in front of them.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
When does he do that?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
The next this is later A week later.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
He's back next Sunday , and then Thomas sees him and
just in all says my Lord, my God, and I think for a lot of our
listeners and viewers.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
This is why he's called doubting Thomas.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Well, yeah, but but really, at the end we see his
redemption.
See, the doubt is the beginningand at the end he's truly
believing and he sees Christ.
He says that great professionof faith my Lord, my God.
And a lot of our listeners andviewers have that great devotion
, the highest practice, that atthe moment of the consecration
and the elevation of the hostand at the moment of the
(16:08):
consecration and elevation ofthe chalice, they'll say to
themselves my Lord and my God,it's a profession of faith and
believing in the true presencein the Eucharist.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Thanks for listening to the Catholic Accent Podcast.
Don't forget to follow, likeand subscribe to our show.
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