May 20, 2025 • 29 mins
This is both dated, and current. It's from a Substack Live session I hosted back in April, but I never got around to making it available on-demand. In this episode I discuss the theology behind Heaven, Hell, and the Catholic teachings regarding who goes where based on an essay I published in April, titled "Heaven, Hell, and My Prescription for What We Should Be Focused on" here on Substack.
We'll explore the concepts of mercy, justice, and the importance of staying true to Church teachings. I'll share personal anecdotes, and outline the essentials for salvation—baptism and belief in Jesus Christ. I also tackle complex questions surrounding unbaptized souls, the impact of good works, and the nuanced theology that makes Catholicism both rich and challenging. Are nice people guaranteed a place in Heaven? Let's find out!If you're not a member of my Substack, you're missing a lot of good stuff! It's free, so come along. All you need to do is drop your email address in the box when prompted.
Chapters and Links below
Get on this Truth Train! Subscribe today.
Hey, The Catholic Experience Podcast is also available your favorite podcast app - iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Amazon, Pandora, and many other podcast apps and networks
Chapters:
* 00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview
* 00:19 Discussion on Heaven, Hell, and Catholic Teachings
* 03:23 The Importance of Baptism and Good Works
* 07:07 Why Good Works?
* 08:44 So Who Goes to Hell?
* 09:36 Baptism by Desire , and Limbo
* 12:34 Why Sacraments are Necessary
* 14:10 The Complexity of the Theology
* 14:10 The Salvation of Those We Care About
* 16:48 Who Goes to Heaven?
* 24:24 Living a Life of True Belief
* 26:07 Excercises
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit catholicadventurer.substack.com/subscribe
- (00:00) - Introduction and Podcast Overview
- (00:19) - Discussion on Heaven, Hell, and Catholic Teachings
- (03:23) - The Importance of Baptism and Good Works
- (07:07) - Why Good Works?
- (08:44) - So Who Goes to Hell?
- (09:36) - Baptism by Desire , and Limbo
- (12:34) - Why Sacraments are Necessary
- (14:10) - The Salvation of Those We Care About
- (16:48) - Who Goes to Heaven?
- (24:24) - Living a Life of True Belief
- (26:07) - Excercises
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome, everybody. Today, I'm talking a little bit
(00:02):
about heaven, hell, and who goesthere based off of my essay that
I published yesterday on thesame topic. Well, that topic was
heaven or hell, but it wasreally about where should our
focus be. Heaven, hell, orsomething else. That was
yesterday's essay.
Anyway, let's get rolling. I'mnot gonna give away the ending.
No spoiler alerts here. You'rejust gonna have to read the
(00:23):
essay because in the essay, I gothrough what hell is and what it
isn't. I talk a little bit aboutmercy and justice because those
subjects are really, reallypoorly represented, by the
Catholic populace, includingCatholic evangelizers.
The point of the article is totell you where you should be
focused, where you should befocused. But I started from the
(00:44):
foundation of what is hell? Whatis heaven? What is mercy and
justice? What does that have todo with it?
Where do Catholics' thoughts andideas and thinking go a little
bit astray from what the churchteaches. There are some people
who get it way wrong, but forthe most part, people just go a
little bit astray, and once youstart drifting in the wrong
(01:06):
direction, you start driftingentirely into another
hemisphere. That's why it'simportant to keep it tight. Keep
it tight. What does the churchteach?
That is where we start. A fewdays ago, I was doing the prayer
with my kids, and I noticed mydaughter was not blessing her. I
hope she never watches thisbecause even though I'm never
naming her, she might beembarrassed. She wasn't doing
(01:29):
the sign of the cross quiteperfect. In fact, not perfectly
at all.
Not incorrectly, but it wasn'tgood enough for me. I told her,
you have to be very mindful.Your forehead just and then down
just beneath your sternum andthen your shoulders, not not the
left and right sides of yourheart, your shoulders. You have
to go all the way to the leftand all way to the right. And I
explained to her, it's not thatyou're sinning.
(01:51):
I explained to her, you have tokeep it tight because when we
start doing things just kind ofhalf hearted, when we're not
engaging the mind to do thingsprecisely, if we don't keep it
tight, it's not just the sign ofthe cross that goes afoul. Now
instead of kneeling before we gointo the pews, instead of
genuflecting to the tabernacle,now we're just curtsying a half
(02:14):
kneel. And now we're just bowingour heads, and now we're just
not referencing the tabernacleat all. You know where that
starts? Because we stop keepingit tight at the minor things
like how we do the sign of thecross.
So it's very important that wekeep it tight in the Catholic
experience. So in the interestof keeping it tight, that essay,
(02:36):
heaven, hell, and myprescription for what we should
be focused on, that essay beginsby keeping it tight. This is
what the church teaches. Andthen it progresses to this is
what I think about hell. It wassome bulleted points where
they're my words, but they areinformed by Catholic teaching.
(02:56):
They're informed by scripture,by Catholic thought. One or two
things in there were pulled notword for word, but were pulled
from Thomas Aquinas. So itprogresses there to my thoughts
on the matter of hell and whogoes there, and then I give you
my prescription. Where should webe focused and why? It's going
(03:17):
to surprise many people who readthat essay.
What they find there is going tosurprise many heaven and hell
and who goes there. Who goes toheaven or who goes to hell? The
easy answer to that and the onethat most people go to and even
the church says this, but thechurch does not say it simply.
If you commit mortal sin, you goto hell. The church does say
(03:42):
that, but the church doesn't endthere.
Really, the church's teaching isevery sin warrants hell.
Everyone. If you commit mortalsin, you are in grave danger of
going to hell, but there is moreto the picture. How many of us
commit venial or mortal sinsoccasionally or somewhat
(04:02):
frequently? Whatever.
But, really, we're not thatwretched enough to go to hell.
We go to mass. We try hard tolive virtuous lives. Do you
really think god is gonna castsomebody into hell for one
mortal sin? He could.
He could. Maybe he does. Thechurch's answer is well, the
church's answer is basicallywhat I said. He could. By the
(04:24):
rule of law, he probably oughtto, but the mercy of Jesus
Christ on the cross does have apushback effect on that
judgment.
That's the whole point. Okay? Sowho goes to hell? Anyone who
commits mortal sin. None.
Not necessarily. Maybe.Probably. By the rulebook, yes.
(04:47):
But the rulebook also includesthe effect of the mercy of God
manifested in the cross of hisson Jesus Christ.
Now let's ask the questionagain: who goes to hell? It's
hard to say. It's hard to say,but I'm gonna give you some
guidance. I'm gonna give yousome guidance. Again, everything
I say is informed by Catholicthought, so it's a theology.
(05:09):
It's my opinion, but it it isinformed by what the church
teaches and has taught for twothousand years. Who goes to hell
and who goes to heaven? Who goesto hell? My belief is it's
pretty hard to get to hell, butit's easier than most people
think. It's pretty hard to getto hell, but it's easier than
most people think.
There are people who believe youhave to be a real scumbag to get
(05:30):
to hell. I think it's easierthan that. I think it's easier
than that. I think if you aretrying fervently to live a good
life, not just to to be nicepeople, and I address the whole
nice people thing in the in theessay, by the way. If you are
trying fervently to live a goodlife, I think it's hard to get
to it's hard to warrant hell.
Let's let's put it that way.It's hard to warrant hell. If
(05:53):
you aren't trying at least alittle bit, it's hard to get to
heaven. It's hard to get toheaven to heaven because here's
the thing. Every sinner, andthat's all of us, every sinner
is already going to hell.
That's already where we'regoing. That's where we're going.
That's our trajectory. And ittakes a force a force to change
(06:18):
or alter that trajectory, thatthat direction. We are already
going there, and it takes aforce to change our trajectory
toward heaven.
That force, most substantially,is the cross of Jesus Christ
that bumps us in the otherdirection. But now we have to
take the reins. We have tofollow through with how we live
(06:40):
our lives. The cross of Christgives us the opportunity to get
to heaven. It doesn'tnecessarily carry us to the
gates.
It it can depending on theindividual and their
circumstances, but it doesn'tnecessarily carry us to the
gates. We have to participate bychanging our lives. Repent and
(07:01):
be faithful to the gospel. Thoseare the words of Jesus. We have
to change our lives and we haveto convert our nature through
good works.
Why do we need to do good works?Because we have to become like
God in order to be with himforever. The cross of Christ
gives us that opportunity, butthen we're left with a fallen
nature. We're not getting intoheaven with with our nature as
(07:21):
it is right now. We have tobecome like God if we intend to
to be with him forever.
You can't fit a square blockinto a round hole, and only the
holy enter heaven, holy by God'sstandard. No one is gonna be
entirely like God by the time wedie, but you have to get through
the process. Right? You have tobe in the process. We're bound
(07:42):
for hell already.
Jesus Christ on the cross bumpsus off of that trajectory, and
then we have to take the reinsto move closer to to heaven by a
conversion of our nature throughgood works. Why through good
works? As I said, we have tobecome like god in order to be
with him forever, and god'snature is to love by action.
(08:07):
That is what he's doing all thetime, to love by action, action
that proceeds from love. So wehave to become like god, and
that's what god does.
He acts out of love, and love isnot a feeling. It is an action.
That's the basic gist of it.We're all bound for hell. Jesus
Christ on the cross knocks usoff that trajectory, but we can
(08:28):
be sucked back into it.
We can be sucked back into thattrajectory. So he knocks us off
that trajectory by the cross andresurrection, and then we have
to pick pick it up where he notwhere he leaves off, but we have
to participate in it by changingour lives. So who goes to hell?
People who are so far away fromgod's mercy by their own choices
(08:50):
that they have basically chosento go to hell by how they live
their lives. It doesn't meanonly Hitler and Napoleon are in
hell.
That it does not mean onlyHitler and Napoleon are in hell.
The church teaches that we can'tknow who is in hell. We don't
even know that Judas is in hell.We can reasonably suspect that
Judas Iscariot is in hell, butwe don't know for sure. Right?
(09:12):
If we can't know that Judas isin hell, how can you know that
your neighbor is in hell?Because he or she was such a
dirtbag, you know, by the timehe died. We don't know. We can
reasonably suspect. We canguess, but we don't know, and we
shouldn't care who else is inhell.
We should only care about notgoing there ourselves. I'm not
gonna rehash what I said in theessay, but good works important.
(09:36):
Baptism essential. Jesus saidso. Baptism is essential.
Baptism by desire, nine timesout of 10 that you hear that
term, it doesn't it it's it's afantasy. There's no such thing
as baptism by desire the way itis used 90% of the time. I think
baptism by desire is a realthing, but we but, folks, let's
(09:59):
just pretend that it is not.Because nine times out of 10,
when you hear that phrase used,it's used incorrectly. And what
they are saying is baptism bydesire is only wishful thinking.
It's make believe it's afantasy. You might as well
believe in a unicorn. Would nonbaptized people again, we can't
know. Jesus says baptism isessential. What about unborn
(10:20):
babies who die in the womb whohaven't had time to be baptized
yet?
Do they go to hell? People usedto believe in cases like that,
maybe the child goes to limbo.Where is that in the Bible? I
have seen biblical I have seenthe argument for limbo
(10:42):
substantiated by some things inScripture. It's not irrational,
but it's not a strong argument.
It's really not a strongargument. Maybe limbo is a real
thing. For those who don't know,limbo is basically a place where
in cases like, for instance, achild who dies before he's
baptized, who hasn't had time tocommit actual sin. Classical
(11:04):
thinking in the church. This isnot church doctrine, it really
is theory.
The classical thinking ofLimbaugh is children, for
instance, who die without havingcommitted sins of their own and
have not been baptized. Theydon't warrant hell, but they
can't get into heaven becausebaptism is essential to get into
(11:25):
heaven. So the classicalthinking of this is there's
probably a place where they'rein perfect total peace. It's not
the exaltation and glory ofheaven, but it's it's not a
place of suffering. They callthat limbo.
That is not Catholic teaching.It's Catholic hypothesis. It's
Catholic theory that goes backpretty far in church history,
(11:47):
but it has never been anofficial Catholic teaching. So
baptism is essential. That doesnot mean that the non baptized
absolutely will not get toheaven.
It depends on the individual,their circumstances, the lives
they lived. Were they exposed tothe gospel of Jesus Christ? Did
they just fail to believe it, orwere they rejecting it? Why
(12:09):
didn't they believe in Jesus?Why weren't they baptized?
It I mean, it involves a hugerange of things that we can't
possibly wrap our heads or armsaround. All I'm telling you is
what the teaching is. I'mtelling you the components. I'm
not telling you one plus twoplus three is six. I'm not
telling you that.
(12:29):
I'm just telling you what thecomponents are. Okay? Baptism
essential. Sacraments areessential. Again, don't wanna
rehash the article or the essay,but sacraments are essential.
Saint Thomas Aquinas said thatwe can't get to heaven on our
own by our own power, by our ownmerit. It's literally
(12:49):
impossible. It's literallyimpossible. We need a power that
comes from outside of ourselvesto propel us to heaven, and only
god has that power. That poweris manifested and available to
us through the sacramental life,through meritorious works, the
mass, holy communion, and so on.
(13:12):
This is how we are propelled bya power outside of ourselves and
great enough to get us toheaven. We can't do that of our
own power. Well, I'm a goodperson. I don't need I don't
need god, or I'm a good person.I don't need to go to mass.
I wouldn't be so sure aboutthat. Wouldn't be so sure about
that. You can't you can't drivefrom New York to California on
(13:37):
fumes, and you can't go toheaven on your own power, on
your own merits. Let me just capoff a point. I am not saying
people who are not baptized aredefinitely going to hell.
It's very important that I pointthat out. I am not saying that
people who are not baptized aredefinitely going to hell. What I
am saying is it's gonna be very,very, very, very hard for them
(13:59):
to reach heaven. I mean, that'sjust the truth, and that is
still what the church teaches.It is still what the church has
taught even in the secondVatican Council.
That's just the truth. That'sone of the points I tried to
make in the essay,catholicadventurer.substack.com.
That's one of the points I triedto make is the theology is so
(14:20):
complex and so nuanced that itdoesn't benefit us at all to
think too much about it. Is thisone going to hell? Is that one
going to hell?
What about my loved one who justdied? Are they going to hell?
Are they in heaven? Who knows?Who knows?
You can't know. You have nopower over that. You have no
control over that. You have noparticipation over that. Except
(14:44):
this.
You can pray for their soul sothat if they were just close
enough to god's standard thatthey went to purgatory, and
maybe they'll be in purgatoryfor a very long time. Who knows?
But you can at least pray fortheir soul so that if they are
in purgatory, which I think mostpeople probably go to purgatory.
(15:05):
But if they are in purgatory,you can pray for their soul and
shorten their stay. But thepoint is you can't know.
You have no control over it. Youhave no participation in it
except for praying for theirsoul in the hopes that they're
in purgatory, and then you canhelp get them to heaven faster.
But because you can't control,you can't even control your own
judgment. What's Jesus gonnasay? What's he gonna think about
(15:27):
this sin?
Is this sin as grave to him as Ithink it is? Is this sin not
nearly as grave to him as Ithought it was? It was this a
more serious offense than than Irealized? What about the good
things that I did? What value dothey will they have for Jesus in
light of my sins?
At judgment, what value willthey have? And vice versa, what
(15:49):
value will my sins have in lightof the the the virtuous things
that I've done, the good thingsthat I've done? Only Jesus knows
that. You have no idea what he'sgoing to say. No matter what
you've done in your life, good,bad, or in the middle, you have
no idea what he's going to sayat judgment.
You cannot control judgment, sostop thinking about it. You
(16:11):
cannot control the verdict, sostop thinking about it. Heaven,
hell, you can't control theverdict, so stop thinking about
it. What you can control is howyou live right now, and that's
all I'm gonna say about that.That's the only thing you can
control is how you live rightnow because a time will come
when you've run out of time tocontribute to that basket of
stuff, whether it's good stuffor virtuous stuff.
(16:34):
Time will come where whateveryou've built and put in that
basket, that's all that's evergonna go in there, and that's
what you bring to judgment. Alittle bit scary when you when
you think about it, but it's thetruth. Okay. So who goes to
heaven? I'm gonna skip thenuances and give you the the
simple straightforward answers.
Just understand that thetheology is complicated and
(16:56):
nuanced. Okay? Just understandthat. So what do you have to do
if you really don't wanna go tohell?
Catholicadventurer.substack.comand subscribe.
It's free. And if you really,really, really wanna reach a
high level of glory in heaven,you can also become a paid
subscriber for $5 a month. Ihave to make this clear. I'm
(17:21):
kidding or am I about that? ButI do hope that you check me out,
And don't just pay me a visit.Go ahead and subscribe, and
you'll be notified of everythingI publish. If you're already a
subscriber, consider a paidsubscription. You'll help me to
support my family with thatmoney. So who goes to heaven?
(17:43):
Baptized? Believing in JesusChrist as the son of god and our
savior? Those are essential.Those are essential. Anyone
outside of those two minimumbare essentials, anyone who
falls outside of that, it's leftto God's tremendous mercy, which
is tremendous beyond ourimagination, but it does not
(18:06):
erase his justice.
It does not erase his justice.Can people outside of the church
go to heaven? They could. Again,Vatican two also says they
could, but it's hard. In thepast, the church has said and
(18:28):
this is not doctrine, I wouldsay it's an authoritative
teaching, it is not doctrine.
Those are different. The churchhas said outside of the Catholic
church, there is no salvation.Well, that remains true. That
remains true. But Vatican twoattempted to build on that a
little bit and which is what acouncil should do.
(18:50):
Outside of the Catholic church,there is no salvation. That is
true. In other words, there isno guarantee of salvation. We
cannot say there is salvationoutside of the Catholic church.
We can say there could besalvation for those outside of
the Catholic church depending onwhy they're outside of the
Catholic church.
There could be. My friends, godmade everything from nothing. Do
(19:13):
you really think he can't save aBuddhist? Come on. Will he?
The church makes no guarantee atall. The church makes no
guarantees at all. The churchsays it depends on the life they
live because you can live thegospel and the 10 commandments
without believing in the gospelor the 10 commandments. It's
(19:33):
it's by grace, and sometimesit's by luck. I I have known
atheists who were atheists theirwhole lives and lived pretty
good lives.
I would not call them saints,but damn good lives, good,
honorable people, just people,charitable people. I have known
some. So here's what I'm saying.God is not bound by those things
(20:00):
which he binds. He is the chiefand sole legislator of the law,
of the covenant.
He is faithful to his own rulebecause you can't be unfaithful
to yourself. In fact, I thinkeven scripture says that. Okay?
But he is not bound by his ownrule, or he is not bound by
(20:24):
let's put it this way. God livesin a house on one acre of land.
He will never destroy his landor burn his house down. That
would be stupid. But he doesn'thave to be confined to that one
acre of land. He can go out ofthe house or off of his his land
(20:46):
because, really, it's all hisanyway, and he can bring
somebody back, not just onto theonto the property, but into the
house. He's not bound by thatover which he has dominion.
It's impossible because he hasdominion over everything. It's
impossible for him to be boundby that which he binds. Okay?
(21:07):
He's faithful to himself, buthe's not bound by by his his his
own guidelines. The guidelinesare for us, not for him.
The guidelines are for us, notfor him. Is anyone outside of
the Catholic church saved? Thereis no guarantee, but it is a
possibility, and that's whatVatican two teaches. Now I would
(21:32):
caution against this idea thatanyone who's nice probably goes
to heaven. I would really notplease do not think that.
Please do not think that. If youknow someone who is nice, you
know, nice people, but they'reaway from the church, please do
not say, well, he's such a niceperson or she's so nice. I'm
(21:53):
sure god will save them too.Please don't go there. Please
don't go there.
If you recognize that JesusChrist is lord and savior and
you recognize that person x or yor z are nice people, but
they're away from the church, itis your duty to pray for them to
come back to the church. Don'tjust leave it to God and say,
oh, well, at least they're nicepeople. Don't do that. Because
by recognizing the supremacy ofJesus Christ, the teaching of
(22:19):
his church, by recognizing thatand recognizing someone in need
of salvation, you have a duty topray for their salvation, to
pray for their conversion, topray for them to come to the
church, or to come back to thechurch. Please do not rest on
your laurels saying, well, atleast they're nice.
You're failing and falling shortof your duty by doing that. Nice
(22:39):
people don't go to heaven. Goodpeople go to heaven, and it's
very hard to be good accordingby the standard of god. Now how
do you know if this, that, orthe other person is capital g
good in the eyes of God? Youcan't know that.
I don't care how nice they are,how virtuous they seem. You
(23:01):
can't know whether they trulyare good, and forget about
whether they're good enough evento warrant purgatory. You can't
possibly know. Only god knowsthat. So don't guess.
Don't make bets off of what youdon't know and can't know,
because you may lose your money,and that person may lose their
(23:22):
soul. I've said this before. Iknow someone who was really,
really close to god. Theybelieved in everything we
profess in the Nicene Creed. Infact, they still believe it.
And this person has deep, deepbelief in Jesus Christ, and this
(23:43):
person is in hell. Who am Italking about? The devil. The
devil has more faith,intellectual faith, than anyone
who has ever lived short ofJesus Christ and the blessed
virgin Mary. He has moreintellectual faith credo
intellectual belief, I shouldsay.
He has more intellectual beliefthan any of us, and he's in
(24:06):
hell. Why? Because he had nofide. He was not moved to act
and to be in accord with what hebelieved in his angelic mind.
It's very easy to say I believein Jesus Christ.
My brothers and sisters, I'm notbeing judgmental as I say this.
This is an exercise that I do,and I wanna leave you with this.
(24:29):
I believe in Jesus Christ. Okay.Look at your life.
Does your life say I believe inJesus Christ or only your words?
Not being judgmental. This is anexercise that I do. Does your
life say I believe in JesusChrist or do only your words?
(24:50):
None of us is perfect.
We all rack up the screw ups, sodon't freak out. But when we
look at our lives and askourselves, Does that life show
belief in Jesus Christ? When wedo that, we come to a better
understanding of what we need tochange in our lives and what we
need to confess at theconfessional. Does my life say I
(25:16):
believe in Jesus Christ or doonly my words? See, even saying
it to you now, because this isan exercise that I do, even
saying it to you now, I'm almostembarrassed saying it because I
know God is listening and heknows what's in my heart and
what's in my heart is no.
(25:39):
Does my life demonstrate someonewho believes in Jesus Christ?
I'd have to say probably not.Does my heart? Do I have it in
my heart? Yeah.
Yeah. But my life and aprogression for all of us,
folks. It's a progression forall of us. Don't freak out. My
(25:59):
life still is not where I thinkit should be in order to be a
life that demonstrates that Ibelieve in Jesus Christ.
Last exercise I want to sharewith you: In the morning when
you wake up, say to Godsomething like this: Lord, help
me to live this day as if it'sthe last day I will ever live.
(26:23):
Help me to live this day asthough I will be judged by you
tonight. Help me to live thisday as if none of the days past
matter, None of the sins, noneof the good works, nothing
completely fresh slate cleanslate. Help me to live today as
(26:46):
if I will only only be judged onhow I live today, this one very
day. As if I'm going to bejudged by you tonight.
Give that a think because thatcould happen. Right? Any day
could be our last day. We canget up in the morning, and it
(27:11):
could be the day that we faceJesus that night. Scary.
It's so scary that I would saydon't do that exercise often.
Don't contemplate that too oftenbecause on a natural level, you
could drive yourself crazy. Butevery once in a while, put that
out there. Put that out there.And every every once in a while,
(27:34):
renew your intent, will, anddesire to live this day as best
as you can like a saint, as bestas you can like a saint.
Course correct where you knowyou're going wrong. Make up for
things that you do wrong in thatday. If you mouth off to someone
(27:55):
or you insult someone, go backand say I'm sorry, and then
reverse the damage by doingsomething good for them, that
sort of thing. Course correctthrough the day. Mind what you
do through that day.
Talk to god. Talk to Jesus acouple of times through the day.
Live your life. Intently live aday as though you're going to be
(28:20):
judged by god that night. Again,if you're really contemplating
that well, that can be veryscary.
So I would I would say don't doit every day. Might make
yourself nuts, but, incorporatethat into into your your habits,
your regimen. We can't controlwe can't control the levers or
(28:44):
the buttons that are beingworked at judgment. We can't
control that. All we can do iscontrol what we bring to
judgment.
So just focus on that. Oh, Ijust gave away the ending of the
essay. Listen. Go and read theessay anyway.
(29:07):
So the essay is called heaven,hell, and my prescription for
what we should be focused oninstead. And that'll about do
it. Thank you for checking meout today. God bless you. Oh,
and if you're not subscribed,please subscribe to my Substack
so that you're notified of everypost and you're able to
participate in the chat.
Subscribe so that you canparticipate and be informed of
(29:27):
everything that I post because Iam the hardest working man in
Catholic podcasting. God blessyou. God be with you all, my
friends. Signing out of here.Bye bye.
Welcome, everybody. Today, I'm talking a little bit
(00:02):
about heaven, hell, and who goesthere based off of my essay that
I published yesterday on thesame topic. Well, that topic was
heaven or hell, but it wasreally about where should our
focus be. Heaven, hell, orsomething else. That was
yesterday's essay.
Anyway, let's get rolling. I'mnot gonna give away the ending.
No spoiler alerts here. You'rejust gonna have to read the
(00:23):
essay because in the essay, I gothrough what hell is and what it
isn't. I talk a little bit aboutmercy and justice because those
subjects are really, reallypoorly represented, by the
Catholic populace, includingCatholic evangelizers.
The point of the article is totell you where you should be
focused, where you should befocused. But I started from the
(00:44):
foundation of what is hell? Whatis heaven? What is mercy and
justice? What does that have todo with it?
Where do Catholics' thoughts andideas and thinking go a little
bit astray from what the churchteaches. There are some people
who get it way wrong, but forthe most part, people just go a
little bit astray, and once youstart drifting in the wrong
(01:06):
direction, you start driftingentirely into another
hemisphere. That's why it'simportant to keep it tight. Keep
it tight. What does the churchteach?
That is where we start. A fewdays ago, I was doing the prayer
with my kids, and I noticed mydaughter was not blessing her. I
hope she never watches thisbecause even though I'm never
naming her, she might beembarrassed. She wasn't doing
(01:29):
the sign of the cross quiteperfect. In fact, not perfectly
at all.
Not incorrectly, but it wasn'tgood enough for me. I told her,
you have to be very mindful.Your forehead just and then down
just beneath your sternum andthen your shoulders, not not the
left and right sides of yourheart, your shoulders. You have
to go all the way to the leftand all way to the right. And I
explained to her, it's not thatyou're sinning.
(01:51):
I explained to her, you have tokeep it tight because when we
start doing things just kind ofhalf hearted, when we're not
engaging the mind to do thingsprecisely, if we don't keep it
tight, it's not just the sign ofthe cross that goes afoul. Now
instead of kneeling before we gointo the pews, instead of
genuflecting to the tabernacle,now we're just curtsying a half
(02:14):
kneel. And now we're just bowingour heads, and now we're just
not referencing the tabernacleat all. You know where that
starts? Because we stop keepingit tight at the minor things
like how we do the sign of thecross.
So it's very important that wekeep it tight in the Catholic
experience. So in the interestof keeping it tight, that essay,
(02:36):
heaven, hell, and myprescription for what we should
be focused on, that essay beginsby keeping it tight. This is
what the church teaches. Andthen it progresses to this is
what I think about hell. It wassome bulleted points where
they're my words, but they areinformed by Catholic teaching.
(02:56):
They're informed by scripture,by Catholic thought. One or two
things in there were pulled notword for word, but were pulled
from Thomas Aquinas. So itprogresses there to my thoughts
on the matter of hell and whogoes there, and then I give you
my prescription. Where should webe focused and why? It's going
(03:17):
to surprise many people who readthat essay.
What they find there is going tosurprise many heaven and hell
and who goes there. Who goes toheaven or who goes to hell? The
easy answer to that and the onethat most people go to and even
the church says this, but thechurch does not say it simply.
If you commit mortal sin, you goto hell. The church does say
(03:42):
that, but the church doesn't endthere.
Really, the church's teaching isevery sin warrants hell.
Everyone. If you commit mortalsin, you are in grave danger of
going to hell, but there is moreto the picture. How many of us
commit venial or mortal sinsoccasionally or somewhat
(04:02):
frequently? Whatever.
But, really, we're not thatwretched enough to go to hell.
We go to mass. We try hard tolive virtuous lives. Do you
really think god is gonna castsomebody into hell for one
mortal sin? He could.
He could. Maybe he does. Thechurch's answer is well, the
church's answer is basicallywhat I said. He could. By the
(04:24):
rule of law, he probably oughtto, but the mercy of Jesus
Christ on the cross does have apushback effect on that
judgment.
That's the whole point. Okay? Sowho goes to hell? Anyone who
commits mortal sin. None.
Not necessarily. Maybe.Probably. By the rulebook, yes.
(04:47):
But the rulebook also includesthe effect of the mercy of God
manifested in the cross of hisson Jesus Christ.
Now let's ask the questionagain: who goes to hell? It's
hard to say. It's hard to say,but I'm gonna give you some
guidance. I'm gonna give yousome guidance. Again, everything
I say is informed by Catholicthought, so it's a theology.
(05:09):
It's my opinion, but it it isinformed by what the church
teaches and has taught for twothousand years. Who goes to hell
and who goes to heaven? Who goesto hell? My belief is it's
pretty hard to get to hell, butit's easier than most people
think. It's pretty hard to getto hell, but it's easier than
most people think.
There are people who believe youhave to be a real scumbag to get
(05:30):
to hell. I think it's easierthan that. I think it's easier
than that. I think if you aretrying fervently to live a good
life, not just to to be nicepeople, and I address the whole
nice people thing in the in theessay, by the way. If you are
trying fervently to live a goodlife, I think it's hard to get
to it's hard to warrant hell.
Let's let's put it that way.It's hard to warrant hell. If
(05:53):
you aren't trying at least alittle bit, it's hard to get to
heaven. It's hard to get toheaven to heaven because here's
the thing. Every sinner, andthat's all of us, every sinner
is already going to hell.
That's already where we'regoing. That's where we're going.
That's our trajectory. And ittakes a force a force to change
(06:18):
or alter that trajectory, thatthat direction. We are already
going there, and it takes aforce to change our trajectory
toward heaven.
That force, most substantially,is the cross of Jesus Christ
that bumps us in the otherdirection. But now we have to
take the reins. We have tofollow through with how we live
(06:40):
our lives. The cross of Christgives us the opportunity to get
to heaven. It doesn'tnecessarily carry us to the
gates.
It it can depending on theindividual and their
circumstances, but it doesn'tnecessarily carry us to the
gates. We have to participate bychanging our lives. Repent and
(07:01):
be faithful to the gospel. Thoseare the words of Jesus. We have
to change our lives and we haveto convert our nature through
good works.
Why do we need to do good works?Because we have to become like
God in order to be with himforever. The cross of Christ
gives us that opportunity, butthen we're left with a fallen
nature. We're not getting intoheaven with with our nature as
(07:21):
it is right now. We have tobecome like God if we intend to
to be with him forever.
You can't fit a square blockinto a round hole, and only the
holy enter heaven, holy by God'sstandard. No one is gonna be
entirely like God by the time wedie, but you have to get through
the process. Right? You have tobe in the process. We're bound
(07:42):
for hell already.
Jesus Christ on the cross bumpsus off of that trajectory, and
then we have to take the reinsto move closer to to heaven by a
conversion of our nature throughgood works. Why through good
works? As I said, we have tobecome like god in order to be
with him forever, and god'snature is to love by action.
(08:07):
That is what he's doing all thetime, to love by action, action
that proceeds from love. So wehave to become like god, and
that's what god does.
He acts out of love, and love isnot a feeling. It is an action.
That's the basic gist of it.We're all bound for hell. Jesus
Christ on the cross knocks usoff that trajectory, but we can
(08:28):
be sucked back into it.
We can be sucked back into thattrajectory. So he knocks us off
that trajectory by the cross andresurrection, and then we have
to pick pick it up where he notwhere he leaves off, but we have
to participate in it by changingour lives. So who goes to hell?
People who are so far away fromgod's mercy by their own choices
(08:50):
that they have basically chosento go to hell by how they live
their lives. It doesn't meanonly Hitler and Napoleon are in
hell.
That it does not mean onlyHitler and Napoleon are in hell.
The church teaches that we can'tknow who is in hell. We don't
even know that Judas is in hell.We can reasonably suspect that
Judas Iscariot is in hell, butwe don't know for sure. Right?
(09:12):
If we can't know that Judas isin hell, how can you know that
your neighbor is in hell?Because he or she was such a
dirtbag, you know, by the timehe died. We don't know. We can
reasonably suspect. We canguess, but we don't know, and we
shouldn't care who else is inhell.
We should only care about notgoing there ourselves. I'm not
gonna rehash what I said in theessay, but good works important.
(09:36):
Baptism essential. Jesus saidso. Baptism is essential.
Baptism by desire, nine timesout of 10 that you hear that
term, it doesn't it it's it's afantasy. There's no such thing
as baptism by desire the way itis used 90% of the time. I think
baptism by desire is a realthing, but we but, folks, let's
(09:59):
just pretend that it is not.Because nine times out of 10,
when you hear that phrase used,it's used incorrectly. And what
they are saying is baptism bydesire is only wishful thinking.
It's make believe it's afantasy. You might as well
believe in a unicorn. Would nonbaptized people again, we can't
know. Jesus says baptism isessential. What about unborn
(10:20):
babies who die in the womb whohaven't had time to be baptized
yet?
Do they go to hell? People usedto believe in cases like that,
maybe the child goes to limbo.Where is that in the Bible? I
have seen biblical I have seenthe argument for limbo
(10:42):
substantiated by some things inScripture. It's not irrational,
but it's not a strong argument.
It's really not a strongargument. Maybe limbo is a real
thing. For those who don't know,limbo is basically a place where
in cases like, for instance, achild who dies before he's
baptized, who hasn't had time tocommit actual sin. Classical
(11:04):
thinking in the church. This isnot church doctrine, it really
is theory.
The classical thinking ofLimbaugh is children, for
instance, who die without havingcommitted sins of their own and
have not been baptized. Theydon't warrant hell, but they
can't get into heaven becausebaptism is essential to get into
(11:25):
heaven. So the classicalthinking of this is there's
probably a place where they'rein perfect total peace. It's not
the exaltation and glory ofheaven, but it's it's not a
place of suffering. They callthat limbo.
That is not Catholic teaching.It's Catholic hypothesis. It's
Catholic theory that goes backpretty far in church history,
(11:47):
but it has never been anofficial Catholic teaching. So
baptism is essential. That doesnot mean that the non baptized
absolutely will not get toheaven.
It depends on the individual,their circumstances, the lives
they lived. Were they exposed tothe gospel of Jesus Christ? Did
they just fail to believe it, orwere they rejecting it? Why
(12:09):
didn't they believe in Jesus?Why weren't they baptized?
It I mean, it involves a hugerange of things that we can't
possibly wrap our heads or armsaround. All I'm telling you is
what the teaching is. I'mtelling you the components. I'm
not telling you one plus twoplus three is six. I'm not
telling you that.
(12:29):
I'm just telling you what thecomponents are. Okay? Baptism
essential. Sacraments areessential. Again, don't wanna
rehash the article or the essay,but sacraments are essential.
Saint Thomas Aquinas said thatwe can't get to heaven on our
own by our own power, by our ownmerit. It's literally
(12:49):
impossible. It's literallyimpossible. We need a power that
comes from outside of ourselvesto propel us to heaven, and only
god has that power. That poweris manifested and available to
us through the sacramental life,through meritorious works, the
mass, holy communion, and so on.
(13:12):
This is how we are propelled bya power outside of ourselves and
great enough to get us toheaven. We can't do that of our
own power. Well, I'm a goodperson. I don't need I don't
need god, or I'm a good person.I don't need to go to mass.
I wouldn't be so sure aboutthat. Wouldn't be so sure about
that. You can't you can't drivefrom New York to California on
(13:37):
fumes, and you can't go toheaven on your own power, on
your own merits. Let me just capoff a point. I am not saying
people who are not baptized aredefinitely going to hell.
It's very important that I pointthat out. I am not saying that
people who are not baptized aredefinitely going to hell. What I
am saying is it's gonna be very,very, very, very hard for them
(13:59):
to reach heaven. I mean, that'sjust the truth, and that is
still what the church teaches.It is still what the church has
taught even in the secondVatican Council.
That's just the truth. That'sone of the points I tried to
make in the essay,catholicadventurer.substack.com.
That's one of the points I triedto make is the theology is so
(14:20):
complex and so nuanced that itdoesn't benefit us at all to
think too much about it. Is thisone going to hell? Is that one
going to hell?
What about my loved one who justdied? Are they going to hell?
Are they in heaven? Who knows?Who knows?
You can't know. You have nopower over that. You have no
control over that. You have noparticipation over that. Except
(14:44):
this.
You can pray for their soul sothat if they were just close
enough to god's standard thatthey went to purgatory, and
maybe they'll be in purgatoryfor a very long time. Who knows?
But you can at least pray fortheir soul so that if they are
in purgatory, which I think mostpeople probably go to purgatory.
(15:05):
But if they are in purgatory,you can pray for their soul and
shorten their stay. But thepoint is you can't know.
You have no control over it. Youhave no participation in it
except for praying for theirsoul in the hopes that they're
in purgatory, and then you canhelp get them to heaven faster.
But because you can't control,you can't even control your own
judgment. What's Jesus gonnasay? What's he gonna think about
(15:27):
this sin?
Is this sin as grave to him as Ithink it is? Is this sin not
nearly as grave to him as Ithought it was? It was this a
more serious offense than than Irealized? What about the good
things that I did? What value dothey will they have for Jesus in
light of my sins?
At judgment, what value willthey have? And vice versa, what
(15:49):
value will my sins have in lightof the the the virtuous things
that I've done, the good thingsthat I've done? Only Jesus knows
that. You have no idea what he'sgoing to say. No matter what
you've done in your life, good,bad, or in the middle, you have
no idea what he's going to sayat judgment.
You cannot control judgment, sostop thinking about it. You
(16:11):
cannot control the verdict, sostop thinking about it. Heaven,
hell, you can't control theverdict, so stop thinking about
it. What you can control is howyou live right now, and that's
all I'm gonna say about that.That's the only thing you can
control is how you live rightnow because a time will come
when you've run out of time tocontribute to that basket of
stuff, whether it's good stuffor virtuous stuff.
(16:34):
Time will come where whateveryou've built and put in that
basket, that's all that's evergonna go in there, and that's
what you bring to judgment. Alittle bit scary when you when
you think about it, but it's thetruth. Okay. So who goes to
heaven? I'm gonna skip thenuances and give you the the
simple straightforward answers.
Just understand that thetheology is complicated and
(16:56):
nuanced. Okay? Just understandthat. So what do you have to do
if you really don't wanna go tohell?
Catholicadventurer.substack.comand subscribe.
It's free. And if you really,really, really wanna reach a
high level of glory in heaven,you can also become a paid
subscriber for $5 a month. Ihave to make this clear. I'm
(17:21):
kidding or am I about that? ButI do hope that you check me out,
And don't just pay me a visit.Go ahead and subscribe, and
you'll be notified of everythingI publish. If you're already a
subscriber, consider a paidsubscription. You'll help me to
support my family with thatmoney. So who goes to heaven?
(17:43):
Baptized? Believing in JesusChrist as the son of god and our
savior? Those are essential.Those are essential. Anyone
outside of those two minimumbare essentials, anyone who
falls outside of that, it's leftto God's tremendous mercy, which
is tremendous beyond ourimagination, but it does not
(18:06):
erase his justice.
It does not erase his justice.Can people outside of the church
go to heaven? They could. Again,Vatican two also says they
could, but it's hard. In thepast, the church has said and
(18:28):
this is not doctrine, I wouldsay it's an authoritative
teaching, it is not doctrine.
Those are different. The churchhas said outside of the Catholic
church, there is no salvation.Well, that remains true. That
remains true. But Vatican twoattempted to build on that a
little bit and which is what acouncil should do.
(18:50):
Outside of the Catholic church,there is no salvation. That is
true. In other words, there isno guarantee of salvation. We
cannot say there is salvationoutside of the Catholic church.
We can say there could besalvation for those outside of
the Catholic church depending onwhy they're outside of the
Catholic church.
There could be. My friends, godmade everything from nothing. Do
(19:13):
you really think he can't save aBuddhist? Come on. Will he?
The church makes no guarantee atall. The church makes no
guarantees at all. The churchsays it depends on the life they
live because you can live thegospel and the 10 commandments
without believing in the gospelor the 10 commandments. It's
(19:33):
it's by grace, and sometimesit's by luck. I I have known
atheists who were atheists theirwhole lives and lived pretty
good lives.
I would not call them saints,but damn good lives, good,
honorable people, just people,charitable people. I have known
some. So here's what I'm saying.God is not bound by those things
(20:00):
which he binds. He is the chiefand sole legislator of the law,
of the covenant.
He is faithful to his own rulebecause you can't be unfaithful
to yourself. In fact, I thinkeven scripture says that. Okay?
But he is not bound by his ownrule, or he is not bound by
(20:24):
let's put it this way. God livesin a house on one acre of land.
He will never destroy his landor burn his house down. That
would be stupid. But he doesn'thave to be confined to that one
acre of land. He can go out ofthe house or off of his his land
(20:46):
because, really, it's all hisanyway, and he can bring
somebody back, not just onto theonto the property, but into the
house. He's not bound by thatover which he has dominion.
It's impossible because he hasdominion over everything. It's
impossible for him to be boundby that which he binds. Okay?
(21:07):
He's faithful to himself, buthe's not bound by by his his his
own guidelines. The guidelinesare for us, not for him.
The guidelines are for us, notfor him. Is anyone outside of
the Catholic church saved? Thereis no guarantee, but it is a
possibility, and that's whatVatican two teaches. Now I would
(21:32):
caution against this idea thatanyone who's nice probably goes
to heaven. I would really notplease do not think that.
Please do not think that. If youknow someone who is nice, you
know, nice people, but they'reaway from the church, please do
not say, well, he's such a niceperson or she's so nice. I'm
(21:53):
sure god will save them too.Please don't go there. Please
don't go there.
If you recognize that JesusChrist is lord and savior and
you recognize that person x or yor z are nice people, but
they're away from the church, itis your duty to pray for them to
come back to the church. Don'tjust leave it to God and say,
oh, well, at least they're nicepeople. Don't do that. Because
by recognizing the supremacy ofJesus Christ, the teaching of
(22:19):
his church, by recognizing thatand recognizing someone in need
of salvation, you have a duty topray for their salvation, to
pray for their conversion, topray for them to come to the
church, or to come back to thechurch. Please do not rest on
your laurels saying, well, atleast they're nice.
You're failing and falling shortof your duty by doing that. Nice
(22:39):
people don't go to heaven. Goodpeople go to heaven, and it's
very hard to be good accordingby the standard of god. Now how
do you know if this, that, orthe other person is capital g
good in the eyes of God? Youcan't know that.
I don't care how nice they are,how virtuous they seem. You
(23:01):
can't know whether they trulyare good, and forget about
whether they're good enough evento warrant purgatory. You can't
possibly know. Only god knowsthat. So don't guess.
Don't make bets off of what youdon't know and can't know,
because you may lose your money,and that person may lose their
(23:22):
soul. I've said this before. Iknow someone who was really,
really close to god. Theybelieved in everything we
profess in the Nicene Creed. Infact, they still believe it.
And this person has deep, deepbelief in Jesus Christ, and this
(23:43):
person is in hell. Who am Italking about? The devil. The
devil has more faith,intellectual faith, than anyone
who has ever lived short ofJesus Christ and the blessed
virgin Mary. He has moreintellectual faith credo
intellectual belief, I shouldsay.
He has more intellectual beliefthan any of us, and he's in
(24:06):
hell. Why? Because he had nofide. He was not moved to act
and to be in accord with what hebelieved in his angelic mind.
It's very easy to say I believein Jesus Christ.
My brothers and sisters, I'm notbeing judgmental as I say this.
This is an exercise that I do,and I wanna leave you with this.
(24:29):
I believe in Jesus Christ. Okay.Look at your life.
Does your life say I believe inJesus Christ or only your words?
Not being judgmental. This is anexercise that I do. Does your
life say I believe in JesusChrist or do only your words?
(24:50):
None of us is perfect.
We all rack up the screw ups, sodon't freak out. But when we
look at our lives and askourselves, Does that life show
belief in Jesus Christ? When wedo that, we come to a better
understanding of what we need tochange in our lives and what we
need to confess at theconfessional. Does my life say I
(25:16):
believe in Jesus Christ or doonly my words? See, even saying
it to you now, because this isan exercise that I do, even
saying it to you now, I'm almostembarrassed saying it because I
know God is listening and heknows what's in my heart and
what's in my heart is no.
(25:39):
Does my life demonstrate someonewho believes in Jesus Christ?
I'd have to say probably not.Does my heart? Do I have it in
my heart? Yeah.
Yeah. But my life and aprogression for all of us,
folks. It's a progression forall of us. Don't freak out. My
(25:59):
life still is not where I thinkit should be in order to be a
life that demonstrates that Ibelieve in Jesus Christ.
Last exercise I want to sharewith you: In the morning when
you wake up, say to Godsomething like this: Lord, help
me to live this day as if it'sthe last day I will ever live.
(26:23):
Help me to live this day asthough I will be judged by you
tonight. Help me to live thisday as if none of the days past
matter, None of the sins, noneof the good works, nothing
completely fresh slate cleanslate. Help me to live today as
(26:46):
if I will only only be judged onhow I live today, this one very
day. As if I'm going to bejudged by you tonight.
Give that a think because thatcould happen. Right? Any day
could be our last day. We canget up in the morning, and it
(27:11):
could be the day that we faceJesus that night. Scary.
It's so scary that I would saydon't do that exercise often.
Don't contemplate that too oftenbecause on a natural level, you
could drive yourself crazy. Butevery once in a while, put that
out there. Put that out there.And every every once in a while,
(27:34):
renew your intent, will, anddesire to live this day as best
as you can like a saint, as bestas you can like a saint.
Course correct where you knowyou're going wrong. Make up for
things that you do wrong in thatday. If you mouth off to someone
(27:55):
or you insult someone, go backand say I'm sorry, and then
reverse the damage by doingsomething good for them, that
sort of thing. Course correctthrough the day. Mind what you
do through that day.
Talk to god. Talk to Jesus acouple of times through the day.
Live your life. Intently live aday as though you're going to be
(28:20):
judged by god that night. Again,if you're really contemplating
that well, that can be veryscary.
So I would I would say don't doit every day. Might make
yourself nuts, but, incorporatethat into into your your habits,
your regimen. We can't controlwe can't control the levers or
(28:44):
the buttons that are beingworked at judgment. We can't
control that. All we can do iscontrol what we bring to
judgment.
So just focus on that. Oh, Ijust gave away the ending of the
essay. Listen. Go and read theessay anyway.
(29:07):
So the essay is called heaven,hell, and my prescription for
what we should be focused oninstead. And that'll about do
it. Thank you for checking meout today. God bless you. Oh,
and if you're not subscribed,please subscribe to my Substack
so that you're notified of everypost and you're able to
participate in the chat.
Subscribe so that you canparticipate and be informed of
(29:27):
everything that I post because Iam the hardest working man in
Catholic podcasting. God blessyou. God be with you all, my
friends. Signing out of here.Bye bye.
Popular Podcasts
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!