June 13, 2025 • 41 mins
In this passionate and personal episode, I take aim at the rising tide of disunity and disloyalty within the Church—especially among radical traditionalists, but also modernists. Reflecting on my near-detour into sedevacantism 30 years ago, I share hard-won wisdom about loyalty, liturgy, and what it really means to be a traditional Catholic.
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You'll hear a response to a viral Instagram comment about the Latin Mass (Find the image below), a strong defense of the Church’s authority over the liturgy, and a no-nonsense call to unity in a time of growing factionalism. If you're tired of the tribalism infecting Catholic discourse and you're ready to stand with Holy Mother Church, this one's for you.
AFTER SHOW segment (9 minutes) is linked at the bottom of this post, for paid subscribers
💥 No hot takes—just the truth, straight up.🛡️ The Church is our Mother, not our servant.🔥 Get ready. This episode pulls no punches.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You very much for joining me. This is the Catholic
Adventurer. Tonight, I'm talkinga little bit thank you. Talking
a little bit about the churchand her naughty children. And in
the in the course of it, I'mgoing to invite you, in fact,
encourage you, in fact, threatenyou to check the link in my bio
and subscribe to me on, Substackbecause I do most of my
(00:24):
everything I do, I do onSubstack.
And in particular, how wheremost broadcasters, their thing
is YouTube. Like, I doeverything I do on YouTube.
YouTube is is my thing. Everytime I go live, it's on YouTube.
For me, that's Substack.
Okay? I do a lot of lives onSubstack. The long form podcast
is done live on Substack. Myblogs and articles, Substack,
(00:45):
chat sessions, Substack. So Iencourage you to check the link
in my bio and, check me out overat Substack.
And if you just wanna check itout and see what's up there, you
don't have to subscribe. Whenyou're invited to subscribe,
just click, no thanks. Let mein, and you can look at
everything that I have there.Okay. Moving on.
So this is gonna be a rathershort one. This is not a long
long form podcast. It's gonna bequick. I'm talking about the
(01:07):
church and her naughty children.Based on something I saw here on
Instagram that has me a littleirritated because I'm so damn
over it.
I am over the church's naughtychildren. Why? Because I do not
see this as a boys club or agirls club. I do not see this
as, the Cub Scouts or the BoyScouts or a social club or a
(01:32):
political party. This thing wewe call Catholic, I see it as
the military.
And what I see throughout theforces of this military is a lot
of lack of discipline, a lot ofdisloyalty, a lot of disunity,
and a lot of naughty marines. Idon't know how it is in the army
(01:55):
or any of the other any of theother services, but anyone who's
a marine will tell youdisloyalty, disunity, or
naughtiness, not tolerated. Zerotolerance. Zero. Now this isn't
actually the Marine Corps.
I'm aware of that. So I try toexercise patience and tolerance
(02:16):
within the the context of of thechurch community, the family, my
brethren, right, my brother andsister Catholics, of course,
because it's not the MarineCorps, but it's not
Speaker 2 (02:25):
far from it. It's really not far from it.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
This was I'm gonna show it to you real quick just
to give you some context, butwe're not gonna I'm not gonna
start talking about it just yet,but this is it. It was posted
by. I cannot pronounce thatname. I cannot pronounce his
real name. I see him all overthe place.
He's an Indian Catholicinfluencer from India. I'm from
India. From Australia. Well,he's Indian, but he lives in
(02:51):
Australia. So he's anAustralian, but he's Indian.
I say that because you mightrecognize who I'm talking about.
Anyway, what Matt Fred said. Ifa drastically new form of the
mass were introduced today, onethat differed from the novus
ordo as much as the novus ordodiffers from the Okay. Okay.
(03:17):
Okay.
Okay. I'll stop. If adrastically new form of the mass
were introduced today, one thatdiffered from the Novus Ordo as
much as the Novus Ordo differsfrom the traditional Latin mass,
many Catholics would feel wouldlikely feel disoriented, even
betrayed. And yet, those sameCatholics often dismiss TLM
(03:40):
attendees as rigid or overlysensitive for feeling the exact
same way about the changesimposed on them after Vatican
II. My brothers and sisters, ifyou don't have a flurry of
possible responses going throughyour head already, you are
sleeping.
(04:00):
You are sleeping. I mean thatliterally and metaphorically.
You are sleeping. And it is timeto wake up because things are
real
Speaker 2 (04:07):
right now with with where things are in the church.
There's a lot
Speaker 1 (04:12):
to say there, and it should be screaming
Speaker 2 (04:14):
at you. If it isn't, wake up and smell the coffee.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
My first thing let me cover this. Let me cover Matt
Fred. Okay? Because most of youhave never seen or heard
Speaker 2 (04:24):
of me. You don't know where
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I stand on most things. So I'm gonna make that
real clear for you right now. Iactually like Matt Frad. I've
been familiar with him for anumber of years. I like him.
Nice guy. Very talented. Very,very talented broadcaster. He
very talented interviewer. Asksgreat questions.
He's funny. He's just great towatch. But what gets under my
(04:49):
skin about him is that he getson this woe is me, woe is me,
woe is me train, and I'm puttingme in quotes. It's not just
himself. This woe is me trainabout mass dysfunction, mass
hysteria, and by that, I meanthe Catholic mass.
(05:10):
He, he's a faithful guy. Don'tget me wrong. I'm not calling
him a heretic. I'm not sayinghe's an apostate. Nothing.
Okay? I have I do not questionhis quality as a Catholic at
all. But this whole crying aboutthe mass thing, I'm sorry. I'm
sorry. I am not making time forit.
You can literally be at mydoorstep crying your eyes out,
(05:32):
and I am not going to make timefor the mass tears. Do you wanna
know why? Because I know itsounds insensitive. I do. I do
know that.
Let me tell you why.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
About thirty years ago, I
Speaker 1 (05:45):
was nearly a radical traditionalist. I was nearly a
sedi vakantist. Very, verynearly. This this this nearly a
sedi vakantist. And I heard allof the anti novus ordo
arguments.
I've heard arguments, folks,you've never even heard of
before. I heard them all fromsedevacantis priests,
sedevacantis laypeople,sedevacantis bishop, a
(06:08):
sedevacantis bishop. I heardevery argument, and they threw
every argument at me because I'ma very inquisitive person. I'm
always asking the why andwherefores and hows. And I was
never satisfied with the answersI was given.
So the laypeople bumped me up tothe priest. The priest bumped me
(06:29):
over to another priest. Thatpriest bumped me
Speaker 2 (06:32):
up to the, quote, unquote, bishop. And
consistently, I was dissatisfiedwith the answers I was given
from the
Speaker 1 (06:40):
the Seti Picantists. Do you know why that comes to
bear? Because modern day radicaltraditionalism and folks, I
understand there's differentkinds of traditionalists. Modern
day radical traditionalism issedevacantism, except they
believe that there's a pope inRome. And sedevacantists do not.
(07:03):
That detail aside, modern dayradical traditionalism is
sedevacantism. I can say thatwith authority because I ran
deep into the sedevacantistcircles. I continued to go to a
a real mass. Okay? Because Iwasn't convinced yet, and I
didn't wanna be the guy that wasmissing mass.
(07:23):
So I was still going to mass andall that. But I was about 95% on
board with the sedativecontests, so I know their
arguments well. And when I hearthem from radical
traditionalists, they soundsuper, super familiar. Let me
say a word about traditionalismin general. I do not like the
label because Catholics do notneed a label.
(07:44):
You are Catholic or you are not.And if you're Catholic, then you
are traditional. That comes withthat comes with the territory,
So you don't need to puttraditional in there. Once we
start throwing traditional inthere, even if you have good
reasons for it, which Iunderstand, even if you have
good reasons for it, you'reopening up you're opening
yourself up to a world ofdisaster. Because once you have
(08:05):
a once you carry a label, youbegin to walk the talk
associated with the label,whether you know it or not.
It just happens naturally. Theway a baby starts to walk, it
just happens. One step here,then a tumble. Two steps. Then
the baby's walking to daddy.
He's getting halfway there, andthen he falls. You get the idea.
(08:29):
Labels are very, very dangerous.You're Catholic or you're not.
There's no need to put
Speaker 2 (08:33):
a label in there. You think
Speaker 1 (08:34):
the modernists are saying I'm a modernist Catholic?
And I I'll tell you this. Theprogressives do not call
themselves progressiveCatholics. They just call
themselves Catholics who areprogressive. And that's only if
you press them.
Then they'll finally throw theprogressive part in there. But
they don't say I'm a progressiveCatholic. Back in the day, into
the nineties easily, you won'tas a normal Catholic, as a as a
(08:57):
as a an Orthodox Catholic, youalmost had to say I'm a
traditional Catholic becausethat's what you were saying. By
saying I'm a traditionalCatholic, you were just making
very clear I'm Orthodox. I'm notone of the crazies that came
from like the 1970 catechesis.
I'm orthodox. I'm normal. I'mreal. That's what traditional
(09:18):
meant back then. That is notwhat it means now.
Because now there are normaltraditionalists who are just
conservative leaning, and thenthere are progressions of more
and more there are progressionsof of traditionalism that are
more and more rigid until yougradually get to radical
traditionalism, which is just asneeze away from sedevacantism,
(09:42):
which is apostasy. And again,that walk, that crawl becomes a
walk, becomes a jog, becomes arun very naturally, very
gradually, you don't evenrealize it's happening, as soon
as you start putting a label infront of Catholic. So be warned.
I understand some I understandthere's there are
traditionalists who are justnormal Catholics. I get that.
(10:06):
Still drop the label. Because,if you're a normal Catholic who
calls themselves traditional,right, because you're more
you're you're more conservativein your Catholicism as I am,
okay, And so on and so on. Soyou call yourself traditional.
Let me tell you something.Sedivacantists call themselves
traditionalist Catholics too.
(10:28):
Well, why do you have the samelabel if one of you is orthodox
and the other is an apostate?Radical traditionalists call
themselves traditionalists. Why?Because their disposition is
very different from yours. Ifyou're just a normal Catholic
who calls themselvestraditional, their disposition
is very different from yours,but you have the
Speaker 2 (10:48):
same label. You don't think that's disconcerting? Take
it from me. Take it from
Speaker 1 (10:53):
me because I've I've been in that dirt, and I can
tell you it it is disconcerting.So just be aware of that. So
that's where I stand. Because ofmy past rolling with the SETIs,
I felt very, angry that I verynearly left the church because
of these people. And why didn'tI leave the church?
(11:16):
Because I wasn't I didn't likethe answers I was getting. What
does Vatican two say? Why doesit say that? How could the Holy
Spirit abandon the church? Well,the Holy Spirit didn't abandon
the church.
The Holy Spirit is still withthe church. No. No. No. No.
Wait. Wait. Wait. You're sayingthe pope is invalid. You're
saying the the chair of Peter isempty.
Why? How could the Holy Spiritlet that happen? That doesn't
(11:39):
compute. How could the how couldVatican II be an illegitimate
council? That does not compute.
So the Holy Spirit was not withthe council fathers? No. Then
when did the Holy Spirit stopshowing up for work?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
At Vatican 1? At Trent? Because if we don't know
when the Holy Spirit stopsshowing up, then we can't take
any of
Speaker 1 (12:03):
the councils seriously. And if we can't take
any of the councils seriously,then Jesus lied to us.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
And if Jesus lied to us, then he can't be God. And if
he can't
Speaker 1 (12:14):
be God, what are we going
Speaker 2 (12:16):
to mass for anyway? It's a house
Speaker 1 (12:19):
of cards that comes tumbling down. And no one, from
the most educated layperson totwo priests to their bishop,
quote unquote bishop. No onecould give me an answer that was
logical and survived logicalexamination. And it was at that
point that I stopped in mytracks and I said, I better look
for these answers myself. Withthe understanding that the were
(12:41):
probably correct.
I was looking for answers withthe understanding that the SETIs
are probably correct. They justsuck at making their own
arguments. So I will make themfor them. Didn't work out that
way. I slowly discovered thatthe sedevacantists were very
skilled and crafty liars, andthey were sucky at making their
(13:03):
own arguments.
They were distorting the facts.They were telling the story they
wanted to be told. I startedreading the the Vatican Council,
the Second Vatican Councilmyself, and so on and so on and
so on. The research set me free.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
And so I know their arguments very well. I
researched their arguments verythoroughly over time.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
And so we're gonna talk about the word betrayal
here in a second, but I feltvery betrayed, and I felt like a
fool. And I never again, neveragain would I tolerate anything
that sounded like asedevacantist argument because I
know it for the poison that itis. And some people who fall for
it, they are fooled, as I hadhad very nearly been fooled.
(13:56):
They're just they're innocentvictims. They're fooled.
Some of them know that it'spoison, and they swallow it
because they want to. And I'msorry. I am a loyal son of the
church, and you will not attackmy mother, and you will not take
a lash to the back of themystical body of Jesus Christ.
Not on my watch, my friend.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Nope. Been defending the
Speaker 1 (14:20):
faith since I was 13 years old. Defending it against
heresy, defending it againstpaganism, defending it against
disloyalty, defending
Speaker 2 (14:28):
it against Protestants. And now I stand
ready to defend it against herchildren too. Not on my watch.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
And it's not for my sake. It's for the sake of my
brothers and sisters. And that'sthat's the only reason I started
getting into evangelization andand apologetics is because I
wanted to defend my brothers andsisters who were being lied to
by Protestants, by pagans, byMuslims. Literal pagans, by the
way. I'm not being figurative.
Literal pagans. Wanted to defendmy brothers
Speaker 2 (14:58):
and sisters. And that's what I'm doing now. Let's
talk about the church and hernaughty children. Let's
Speaker 1 (15:05):
go back to this comment. I wanna thank you,
those of you who are latecomers,joining me. God bless you. God
be with you. This is theCatholic Adventurer coming at
you like a runaway freighttrain, and I'm very sorry.
Let's get to it. I'm gonna takethis statement by statement. I'm
gonna go pretty quickly. If youhave any questions, comments,
(15:26):
concerns, gripes, complaints,drop a comment. Well, I mean,
drop obviously a comment in thelive session here, and I'll get
to it.
If you're catching this ondemand, drop a comment, or DM
me, but you can only DM me ifyou're following me, so you're
gonna have
Speaker 2 (15:41):
to follow first. Let's get to it. If a
drastically new form of
Speaker 1 (15:46):
the mass were introduced today, one that
differed from the novusordae Asmuch as the novisordae differs
from the traditional Latin mass,many Catholics would likely feel
disoriented, even betrayed. Letme start there because that one
really pisses me off. I want tobe as soon as I get this off the
(16:10):
screen, I wanna be very clear.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
The church does not betray. The church is our
mother. And where our mothergoes, we go.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
And that's it. There's no questions asked.
Where our mother goes, we go.Period. We are the ones who
betray.
The church does not betray. Thechurch is not our servant, and
the church is not our child.This is some some stuff that I
said in my comment to that post.The church is not our servant.
The church is
Speaker 2 (16:40):
not our child. The church can't betray. The church
is not beneath us. The church isnot at our disposal. The
institutional church.
I'm not talking about theshepherds of the church.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Obviously, the shepherds serve the people. I'm
talking about the institutionbecause that's what he's talking
about. Let's be clear. Let's bereal, real clear. The church
does not betray drastically newform of the mass.
Listen. This drastically newform of the mass there
Speaker 2 (17:08):
were many liturgies with many forms throughout
Speaker 1 (17:13):
the first few hundred years of of Christendom. What
matters in the liturgy is thesubstance of the lit is the
liturgical substance. That'swhat matters in the liturgy is
the liturgical substance. Whatmatters is there's a liturgy of
the of the word, a liturgy of
Speaker 2 (17:28):
the Eucharist, the prayers of institution, the
consecration, and so forth.Obviously, there's
Speaker 1 (17:36):
more to the liturgy than that. But those are the
substantial components of
Speaker 2 (17:40):
the liturgy. Okay? The confession of sin,
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I confess to almighty God that I have gravely sinned,
and so on. All that stuff.That's the substance of the
liturgy. And that is thesubstance of the Novus Ordo Mass
is identical to the substance ofthe traditional Latin Mass, even
though the form is different.And the
Speaker 2 (18:00):
form isn't even that dramatically different. It's not
different in a way that matters.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Now, taking this at a at face value, it's a
drastically new form of themass. Well, to a Catholic, that
sounds horrifying. Drasticallynew form? But this is an
unchanging church. I know thisbecause I heard these arguments
from the SETIs.
This is supposed to be anunchanging church. But here we
(18:28):
have a drastically new form ofthe mass. It's nonsense. It's
nonsense. Because it's someonesaying drastically new form as
if it has value.
It is statement that has novalue unless all you care about
is the the mass. If all you careabout is the mass, if the and
(18:50):
I'm not saying this applies toMedFred, and I'm not saying it
applies to all traditionalists.I'm just saying, if all you care
about the mass and if the massis is your god, then I can
understand why that would rubyou raw. But that would make you
a pagan who believes in Jesusand goes to church. And I'm
(19:13):
sorry to be so flippant andmaybe even rude as
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I say that because that's not what is in my heart.
I'm doing this to protect thepeople who have not been fooled
yet and hopefully to knock alittle sense in the ones who
have. Not for my glory, butbecause I care about you and I
love you.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
One that differed from the novas ordo no no
sorter. As much as the novasordo differs from the
traditional Latin mass, manyCatholics would likely be
disoriented. Is that right? Isis that so? Because
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I wouldn't be disoriented. I wouldn't care if
we had to
Speaker 1 (19:56):
go to church standing on our heads during the entire
mass and we had to spin aroundor do cartwheels when we go up
to receive communion? I don'tcare. You wanna change you wanna
change the language of the massfrom the vernacular to Swahili?
I don't care. But you betterteach me a little Swahili so I
(20:16):
can do the responses.
Oh, you don't want me to respondeither? Okay. I don't care. I
don't care. Are the readingsstill being read?
Yes. Is the Eucharist stillbeing consecrated? Yes.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Then I don't care about the rest. I don't care.
Change whatever you want. Idon't care.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I understand some people do care about that. Hey.
In general, I'm not a guy wholikes change.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I hate change. I don't like cha
Speaker 1 (20:42):
I don't like something being moved from there
to there. I don't like goingfrom a my wife just recently did
this. I don't like going from anice wood floor to a carpet
being on the floor. I don't likechange. I'm a very, very, very
traditional minded guy, and Ilike things to stay the same.
But when it comes to the mass,hey, it's not furniture. This is
(21:05):
how we worship God. And thechurch has total authority,
total competence in inregulating that or in or in
advancing that and protectingthat, and the church is the
only, the chief and solecustodian of the liturgy. My
friends, if you want traditionalCatholicism, I just laid it out
for you.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Competence, authority, and it is the sole
custodian of the liturgy. That'straditional Catholicism, my
friends. The church wants tochange the form of the mass
tomorrow? Okay. I don't care.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
I understand, though, that some people would feel
disoriented, as Matt Fred saidhere. Some people will feel
disoriented. Okay.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
You know what? They'll get over it. They'll get
Speaker 1 (21:52):
over it. Because let me tell
Speaker 2 (21:52):
you something. When I tell first communicants,
Speaker 1 (21:57):
you will not receive communion in your hands the
first time you receivecommunion. In this class, you
are receiving on your tongue.I'm going to teach you how to
receive communion in your handsbecause the church does not say
it's wrong. Therefore, I willnot
Speaker 2 (22:10):
say it's wrong, and I don't. But in this class,
Speaker 1 (22:14):
this is how you'll do it for the first time.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
You'll receive on your tongue. Don't you
Speaker 1 (22:19):
think those poor children are going to feel
disoriented? When they grow up,seeing everyone receiving in
Speaker 2 (22:24):
their hands, they might feel
Speaker 1 (22:25):
a little disoriented. Tough. Because this is the way
it is. You know what? Kitties,after you
Speaker 2 (22:32):
do it two, three, four times, you're not gonna
Speaker 1 (22:34):
feel disoriented. You'll feel like you're doing
Speaker 2 (22:37):
it right and everyone else is doing it wrong. You'll
get over it. Real fast, you'regonna get over that.
Disoriented? Why?
Where the church goes, you go.There's no disorientation.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
The church is not getting lost. As long as you're
following the church, you won'tget lost either. So why would
you feel disoriented?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Come on. So that part of
Speaker 1 (22:59):
the statement really, really bugged me. Like, who the
hell are you? You're steeringthe ship? You're driving the
bus? Why should you worry aboutfeeling disoriented if you're
just a passenger on thisjourney, on this pilgrimage,
with the church, our mother onEarth?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
They would feel disoriented, even betrayed. That
betrayed part is telling. Thatbetrayed part is telling. If you
believe the church is at
Speaker 1 (23:30):
your service, then yes, I can see how you might
feel betrayed. If you believethe church is your mother and
you go where your mother goes,there's no there's no forum for
betrayal. It just doesn't existin that world. So that one
really got under my skin becauseit's really very telling.
Betrayed?
I'm sorry. No. No. No. No.
(23:54):
And I'm gonna draw the come to aconclusion with all this. This
is not just spitting out a bunchof words, by the way. I'm gonna
I'm gonna tie this into a nicelittle bow in just a second. The
statement continues, and yetthose same Catholics are often
often dismissed TLM attendees asrigid or overly sensitive. Can
we all agree that traditionalLatin mass attendees are overly
(24:17):
sensitive?
You can't even ask them aquestion without them drawing
out the knives and pitchforks,trying to cut your throat,
trying to poke your eyes. Youcan't even ask them a question
about their unique expression ofthe Catholic faith. It's it's
unique does not mean it's crazytown. I understand their
(24:41):
expression of it, but it isunique because it's
extraordinary, unfortunately.It's unfortunately extraordinary
these days to do things likedevotions.
That's extraordinary these days,and that is unfortunate. But you
can't even ask them questions.Why do you attend a traditional
Latin mass? You can't even askthem that question without them
(25:03):
getting ready to punch you inthe face. Well, I always felt I
just always felt weird, likepeople were staring at me
whenever I received communion onthe tongue and kneeling down.
You felt weird? Wait a second.You felt weird that people were
(25:25):
staring at you? And so you hadto go to a traditional Latin
mass to be surrounded by peoplewho are also kneel? My friend,
I've been kneeling for communionfor twenty five years.
And I'm gonna be very, veryfrank with you. Do you think I
give a shit if anyone's staringat me? And twenty five years
ago, I was rather a youngling,someone who cared about people's
(25:49):
opinions, sort of. I didn'treally, but, you know, I didn't
care if people were looking atme funny. Hopefully, they were
learning something from me.
I didn't care. Why should you?Who cares if they're staring? My
god. You're Catholic in a paganworld.
You're a Catholic in a paganworld. You're already a weirdo.
(26:12):
By being Catholic in a paganworld, you're already a weirdo.
Who cares if other Catholics arestaring at you for kneeling to
receive communion? No matter howgently I would say that, I would
get a very hostile response fromthe person I was having this
conversation with.
And I've had this with thisconversation with many such
(26:33):
persons. Very, very sensitive.Very super, super, super
sensitive. And frankly,
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I just don't get it. And I'm
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I'm naturally a sensitive guy myself, but
sensitivity does have itslimits. Danny in the chat room
says, we always took the 1962missile reverently, but the
source and summit is theEucharist no matter what. Bingo.
Period. The source and summit isis the Eucharist.
Is the is the is the is the,consecration valid? Then I'm
(27:05):
good. I'm good. You can say themath in English, Latin, Swahili,
Greek, Spanish, pig Latin. Idon't care.
You can do the you can celebrateat Orientum or facing the
people.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I don't care. I really don't care.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
And my friends, I don't wanna speak for God, but I
don't think God cares as much asyou do. I think he cares that
the the look. Worship isoriented toward God. Of course,
he cares about it. But theliturgy is composed and
(27:49):
forwarded by his by his church.
He accepts it. It's licit. Heaccepts it. Okay? He's not
turning his nose up at itbecause the priest is facing the
people.
Guys, come on. I can almostguarantee you he's not up there
(28:11):
going, no. Not having it. I can
Speaker 2 (28:15):
almost guarantee you that's not happening. Come on.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Well, the mass has to be very reverent. Well, I'm I'm
all for reverent, but I don'tlike how traditionalists and
some others throw that termaround. Who are you that you're
gonna make the mass morereverent than the consecration
of the Eucharist on the altar?You're gonna make it
Speaker 2 (28:34):
more reverent than that? Who who are you? Because I
would love to get to know you.You're saying you have
Speaker 1 (28:41):
a way of making the mass more reverent than the
sacrifice of the lamb of God whotakes away the sin of the world,
the sacrifice of the lamb of Godon that altar. You're saying you
have a way
Speaker 2 (28:51):
of making it more reverent than Jesus Christ?
Please DM me because we need tobe friends.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I'm very traditional minded. I like old school music,
except these days, I kind ofdon't care even about old
school. I don't care. It can belike the oldest old school
music. I
Speaker 2 (29:10):
okay. That's great. I value it, but I don't need it.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
I receive communion on on my knees and on my tongue,
obviously. You know, I I lovereverence, but reverence has its
place. And we also need to askourselves, what do we
Speaker 2 (29:27):
mean by reverence? Reverence according to who?
According to you? Tell me, whoare you? And why does your
standard best the standard ofGod?
Because you know what
Speaker 1 (29:40):
a a reverent sacrifice was biblically?
Throwing together an altar madeof stones and rocks and a slab,
offering the altar to God. Nowit's consecrated. Right? Now
it's like his altar.
Right? And then making asacrifice on that altar, and
(30:04):
that was reverent. Can you dobetter than that? Because now we
have a properly
Speaker 2 (30:12):
ceremonially consecrated altar.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
So the consecration is real. It's not symbolic like
it was, for instance, in the OldTestament. It's a it's a real
consecration. And then the theEucharist is is offered as as
the eternal sacrifice of JesusChrist. It's the most reverent
mass or liturgy sacrifice thatwe can offer.
(30:37):
I mean, it's the son of God onthe altar. Can you do better
than that? Anyway, babbling on.For leading the Catholic okay.
Catholics often dismiss TLMattendees as rigid or overly
sensitive for feeling the exactsame way about the changes
Speaker 2 (30:55):
imposed imposed imposed on them after Vatican
two. My friends, the church isnot yours, and the mass is not
yours. So that when
Speaker 1 (31:11):
a church says this is gonna be different now, that's
not
Speaker 2 (31:14):
an imposition. That's the church doing. That's the
church being what
Speaker 1 (31:21):
it was supposed to be. That's the church acting in
accord with its nature as theinstitution of faith with the
authority of the apostles, givento it by Jesus Christ. That's
the church being the church. Andtherefore, that's not an
imposition. That's just thechurch being the church.
And we follow, or we say, I willnot serve, and we do our own
thing. There is no imposition.The church is our mother. She's
(31:46):
leading us in this pilgrimage onearth. That's not an imposition.
That's the church saying, comechildren, we're going this way
now, and we just follow. Andthat's that. So I understand
where Matt Fred is coming from.I'm not anti Matt Fred. I think
he's a good guy, good familyman.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
I think he's he's very super talented. Good guy.
Good Catholic. Good Catholic.But the crying about the mass,
I'm not
Speaker 1 (32:14):
gonna I'm I'm not going to indulge you for a
second. I can't. I was nearlybamboozled by sedevacantis.
Sedevacantism has infected themodern church. It has infected
the modern church.
Most radical traditionalists,not all traditionalists, I'm
talking about the radical kind,Most radical traditionalists
(32:37):
that I haven't have that I'vehad conversations with, they're
sedevacantists. They just don'tknow it. Everything they say is
sedevacantism. That poison isstarting to work its way into,
let's say, normaltraditionalism. Because I'm
hearing sedevacantist ideas,thought, theology, thought
(32:58):
processes, distortions anddisfigurements of facts that are
the the hallmark ofsedevacantism.
I'm starting to hear that fromnormal traditionalists too. And
so thirty years of this, myfriends, I've heard every
argument against the mass. I'veheard every possible argument
(33:18):
against Vatican two, and I Ijust won't make time for it
Speaker 2 (33:23):
anymore. It's inexcusable as far as I'm
concerned. It's justinexcusable. Because the church
is our mother.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
The church is not our daughter. Church is not our
child. Church is our mother.Where the church goes, we
follow, and that's that. Wherethe church leads, we go, and
that's that.
The church has competency,authority, and the church is the
sole custodian of the liturgy.That's traditional Catholicism,
brothers and sisters. And it istrue or it is not. And if it is
(33:57):
not, then Jesus is a liar. IfJesus is a liar, he can't be
God.
And if he's not God, then thereis no God. And if there is no
God, then why are
Speaker 2 (34:04):
we going to mass? It's a logical house of cards
that comes tumbling down.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
In conclusion, do I think traditionalists are
naughty children? Some of them,many of them are, if I'm being
honest. I really want to becharitable. I really do because
I love you and I care about you.But but many of
Speaker 2 (34:21):
them are. And some are not naughty. Some are not.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
That doesn't mean that they're evil. Just means
and there's naughtinesseverywhere in the church. Right?
There's naughtiness. God.
Folks, we don't have to statethe obvious. We know there's
naughtiness on the left too.Right? I mean, that's obvious.
We all know that.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Right? Progressivism and whatnot.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
You want you want you want you wanna really see how I
Speaker 2 (34:54):
can freak you right out? The progressivism that we
saw in the seventies soundsconservative compared to the
progressivism that's taking roottoday. You're not seeing it yet.
You're gonna see it.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
You're gonna start to hear it. It's going to be better
hidden.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
But if you look, if you poke and prod, you'll see
it. They'll admit it. But I'mnot
Speaker 1 (35:24):
worried about that because God wins. The church
always wins. The holy spirit'son this. I am not worried about
modernism. And besides,modernism isn't Catholicism
anyway.
That's a heresy. Butprogressivism that isn't
modernist, it's just very, veryleft leaning. I'm not worried
about that either. I'm reallynot. I'm really not.
(35:47):
I don't think we're going tohave another heyday of modernism
that we saw, like, in theseventies or late sixties going
into the eighties. I don't thinkwe're gonna see that again. I I
do not see any hint of thathappening. I think that time has
passed, and there's just somepeople what we're seeing today
(36:07):
is the last dying breath ofmodernism in the church. That I
do believe.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
And I know that's a huge statement, and I say it
with confidence. I say it
Speaker 1 (36:18):
with confidence with a very informed perspective. So,
yes, there's naughtiness on theleft, and there's naughtiness on
the right.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
And it's important that we acknowledge that and say
to ourselves, you know what?
Speaker 1 (36:34):
It's true. The church is not the Boy Scouts. The
church is not a political party.The church is the military. And
if a military is only as strongas its unity, then we have a
problem with the military andthe church because we're not
united.
We're factioning. We're dividingourselves. We're planting our
(36:55):
feet in the camps that we chooseand prefer, and we're calling
that home. And so effectively,those camps become a church
within a church. There was aterm for that because this even
happened in the early churchtoo, this sort of thing.
At the time, like, what we callas what we call, like,
(37:18):
traditionalists radicals.Traditionalists and, modernists.
At the time, it was laxists andrigorous. See, there ain't
nothing new under the sun. And Ithink it was the church in
France when France was still,like, the the crown jewel of,
(37:38):
Christian Europe.
The French term for it was like,little church, what I call a
church within a church. That'swhat we're seeing forming is
churches within the church. Youknow what happens to
Speaker 2 (37:56):
a military where the troops are factioning, divided,
and encamped amongst themselvesin groups.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
You know what happens to that army? It loses. But the
church can't lose. This a churchwho does things that by that, I
mean, lowercase c church topeople. The church cannot lose.
So what what is going to happenis God is going to do something.
Could be an an infusion ofgrace. It could be, I don't
(38:28):
know, miraculous conversion. Godis going to do something to snap
the people out of their hypnosisbecause the church this divided
loses. Well, the church can'tlose the final battle between
good and evil.
That's just not going to happen.So how do we reconcile the
church's destiny with thechurch's current condition?
(38:52):
Well, God is going to work thatout. And I believe he's already
started. I strongly believe he'salready started.
We're not going to have anotherheyday of modernism in the
church. Things are going to getvery, very good again. You just
wait and see. You just wait andsee. Danny in the chat room
(39:14):
says, we all look a little bitout of place being Catholic.
That's what I'm saying. That'swhat I'm saying. You you bless
yourself to say grace in themiddle of a restaurant. You look
like a weirdo. Everyone's gonnastare at you.
Who cares? Let them stare. Whocares? People wanna stare at you
for receiving communion,kneeling down. Who cares?
So folks, that's gonna cover it.I wanna tell you, thank you for
(39:37):
checking out this live. This wassupposed to be quick. I always
start out every broadcast sayingthis is gonna be quick, and then
I talk for nine hours. I'mcrazy.
Check out the link in my biobecause my Substack is in there.
And if you like what's on thisplatform, if you like the stuff
I put up, I'm telling you, it'sshallow compared to where I go
on Substack between the longform podcasts, the, the articles
(40:01):
and essays and blogs I write andstuff like that. I go mad deep.
So if you want the good stuff,if you want the rich stuff, if
you wanna dive down deep, checkout my Substack. The link is in
the bio.
You do not have to subscribe tosee what I have there, but I
hope you do subscribe becauseit's free and you get notified
every time I publish somethingnew. You don't have to trust the
(40:24):
algorithm, rely on thealgorithm. You don't have to
worry if I get deplatformed,which I'm like that close to
being deplatformed from TikTok.You don't have to worry about
that. Because if you'resubscribed to my Substack, I
always have a way to reach outto you and let you know where I
am next.
I and every time I publishsomething, you get an email
letting you know about it, andit's free. What do you care? If
(40:50):
you're not following me here, Iencourage you, please do, and
please tap like. If you seesomething that I post that you
even like a smidge, just taplike. It's not costing you
anything.
I say that because every liketells the in the algorithm this
post is worthy of betterdistribution. Every like on a
(41:14):
post tells the algorithm thisaccount is worthy of better
distribution. Do you understand?So it really it's not about ego
for me. It's it's that everylike helps to get this work
spread further and further andfurther.
Every like helps to spread thetruth. That song is too short.
(41:34):
God bless you, my friends. Godbe with you all. Please say hail
Mary for me and my family.
I really would appreciate that.And, I guess I'll see you on the
rebound. Catholic Adventurersigning out of here. God be with
you all. Bye bye.
You very much for joining me. This is the Catholic
Adventurer. Tonight, I'm talkinga little bit thank you. Talking
a little bit about the churchand her naughty children. And in
the in the course of it, I'mgoing to invite you, in fact,
encourage you, in fact, threatenyou to check the link in my bio
and subscribe to me on, Substackbecause I do most of my
(00:24):
everything I do, I do onSubstack.
And in particular, how wheremost broadcasters, their thing
is YouTube. Like, I doeverything I do on YouTube.
YouTube is is my thing. Everytime I go live, it's on YouTube.
For me, that's Substack.
Okay? I do a lot of lives onSubstack. The long form podcast
is done live on Substack. Myblogs and articles, Substack,
(00:45):
chat sessions, Substack. So Iencourage you to check the link
in my bio and, check me out overat Substack.
And if you just wanna check itout and see what's up there, you
don't have to subscribe. Whenyou're invited to subscribe,
just click, no thanks. Let mein, and you can look at
everything that I have there.Okay. Moving on.
So this is gonna be a rathershort one. This is not a long
long form podcast. It's gonna bequick. I'm talking about the
(01:07):
church and her naughty children.Based on something I saw here on
Instagram that has me a littleirritated because I'm so damn
over it.
I am over the church's naughtychildren. Why? Because I do not
see this as a boys club or agirls club. I do not see this
as, the Cub Scouts or the BoyScouts or a social club or a
(01:32):
political party. This thing wewe call Catholic, I see it as
the military.
And what I see throughout theforces of this military is a lot
of lack of discipline, a lot ofdisloyalty, a lot of disunity,
and a lot of naughty marines. Idon't know how it is in the army
(01:55):
or any of the other any of theother services, but anyone who's
a marine will tell youdisloyalty, disunity, or
naughtiness, not tolerated. Zerotolerance. Zero. Now this isn't
actually the Marine Corps.
I'm aware of that. So I try toexercise patience and tolerance
(02:16):
within the the context of of thechurch community, the family, my
brethren, right, my brother andsister Catholics, of course,
because it's not the MarineCorps, but it's not
Speaker 2 (02:25):
far from it. It's really not far from it.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
This was I'm gonna show it to you real quick just
to give you some context, butwe're not gonna I'm not gonna
start talking about it just yet,but this is it. It was posted
by. I cannot pronounce thatname. I cannot pronounce his
real name. I see him all overthe place.
He's an Indian Catholicinfluencer from India. I'm from
India. From Australia. Well,he's Indian, but he lives in
(02:51):
Australia. So he's anAustralian, but he's Indian.
I say that because you mightrecognize who I'm talking about.
Anyway, what Matt Fred said. Ifa drastically new form of the
mass were introduced today, onethat differed from the novus
ordo as much as the novus ordodiffers from the Okay. Okay.
(03:17):
Okay.
Okay. I'll stop. If adrastically new form of the mass
were introduced today, one thatdiffered from the Novus Ordo as
much as the Novus Ordo differsfrom the traditional Latin mass,
many Catholics would feel wouldlikely feel disoriented, even
betrayed. And yet, those sameCatholics often dismiss TLM
(03:40):
attendees as rigid or overlysensitive for feeling the exact
same way about the changesimposed on them after Vatican
II. My brothers and sisters, ifyou don't have a flurry of
possible responses going throughyour head already, you are
sleeping.
(04:00):
You are sleeping. I mean thatliterally and metaphorically.
You are sleeping. And it is timeto wake up because things are
real
Speaker 2 (04:07):
right now with with where things are in the church.
There's a lot
Speaker 1 (04:12):
to say there, and it should be screaming
Speaker 2 (04:14):
at you. If it isn't, wake up and smell the coffee.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
My first thing let me cover this. Let me cover Matt
Fred. Okay? Because most of youhave never seen or heard
Speaker 2 (04:24):
of me. You don't know where
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I stand on most things. So I'm gonna make that
real clear for you right now. Iactually like Matt Frad. I've
been familiar with him for anumber of years. I like him.
Nice guy. Very talented. Very,very talented broadcaster. He
very talented interviewer. Asksgreat questions.
He's funny. He's just great towatch. But what gets under my
(04:49):
skin about him is that he getson this woe is me, woe is me,
woe is me train, and I'm puttingme in quotes. It's not just
himself. This woe is me trainabout mass dysfunction, mass
hysteria, and by that, I meanthe Catholic mass.
(05:10):
He, he's a faithful guy. Don'tget me wrong. I'm not calling
him a heretic. I'm not sayinghe's an apostate. Nothing.
Okay? I have I do not questionhis quality as a Catholic at
all. But this whole crying aboutthe mass thing, I'm sorry. I'm
sorry. I am not making time forit.
You can literally be at mydoorstep crying your eyes out,
(05:32):
and I am not going to make timefor the mass tears. Do you wanna
know why? Because I know itsounds insensitive. I do. I do
know that.
Let me tell you why.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
About thirty years ago, I
Speaker 1 (05:45):
was nearly a radical traditionalist. I was nearly a
sedi vakantist. Very, verynearly. This this this nearly a
sedi vakantist. And I heard allof the anti novus ordo
arguments.
I've heard arguments, folks,you've never even heard of
before. I heard them all fromsedevacantis priests,
sedevacantis laypeople,sedevacantis bishop, a
(06:08):
sedevacantis bishop. I heardevery argument, and they threw
every argument at me because I'ma very inquisitive person. I'm
always asking the why andwherefores and hows. And I was
never satisfied with the answersI was given.
So the laypeople bumped me up tothe priest. The priest bumped me
(06:29):
over to another priest. Thatpriest bumped me
Speaker 2 (06:32):
up to the, quote, unquote, bishop. And
consistently, I was dissatisfiedwith the answers I was given
from the
Speaker 1 (06:40):
the Seti Picantists. Do you know why that comes to
bear? Because modern day radicaltraditionalism and folks, I
understand there's differentkinds of traditionalists. Modern
day radical traditionalism issedevacantism, except they
believe that there's a pope inRome. And sedevacantists do not.
(07:03):
That detail aside, modern dayradical traditionalism is
sedevacantism. I can say thatwith authority because I ran
deep into the sedevacantistcircles. I continued to go to a
a real mass. Okay? Because Iwasn't convinced yet, and I
didn't wanna be the guy that wasmissing mass.
(07:23):
So I was still going to mass andall that. But I was about 95% on
board with the sedativecontests, so I know their
arguments well. And when I hearthem from radical
traditionalists, they soundsuper, super familiar. Let me
say a word about traditionalismin general. I do not like the
label because Catholics do notneed a label.
(07:44):
You are Catholic or you are not.And if you're Catholic, then you
are traditional. That comes withthat comes with the territory,
So you don't need to puttraditional in there. Once we
start throwing traditional inthere, even if you have good
reasons for it, which Iunderstand, even if you have
good reasons for it, you'reopening up you're opening
yourself up to a world ofdisaster. Because once you have
(08:05):
a once you carry a label, youbegin to walk the talk
associated with the label,whether you know it or not.
It just happens naturally. Theway a baby starts to walk, it
just happens. One step here,then a tumble. Two steps. Then
the baby's walking to daddy.
He's getting halfway there, andthen he falls. You get the idea.
(08:29):
Labels are very, very dangerous.You're Catholic or you're not.
There's no need to put
Speaker 2 (08:33):
a label in there. You think
Speaker 1 (08:34):
the modernists are saying I'm a modernist Catholic?
And I I'll tell you this. Theprogressives do not call
themselves progressiveCatholics. They just call
themselves Catholics who areprogressive. And that's only if
you press them.
Then they'll finally throw theprogressive part in there. But
they don't say I'm a progressiveCatholic. Back in the day, into
the nineties easily, you won'tas a normal Catholic, as a as a
(08:57):
as a an Orthodox Catholic, youalmost had to say I'm a
traditional Catholic becausethat's what you were saying. By
saying I'm a traditionalCatholic, you were just making
very clear I'm Orthodox. I'm notone of the crazies that came
from like the 1970 catechesis.
I'm orthodox. I'm normal. I'mreal. That's what traditional
(09:18):
meant back then. That is notwhat it means now.
Because now there are normaltraditionalists who are just
conservative leaning, and thenthere are progressions of more
and more there are progressionsof of traditionalism that are
more and more rigid until yougradually get to radical
traditionalism, which is just asneeze away from sedevacantism,
(09:42):
which is apostasy. And again,that walk, that crawl becomes a
walk, becomes a jog, becomes arun very naturally, very
gradually, you don't evenrealize it's happening, as soon
as you start putting a label infront of Catholic. So be warned.
I understand some I understandthere's there are
traditionalists who are justnormal Catholics. I get that.
(10:06):
Still drop the label. Because,if you're a normal Catholic who
calls themselves traditional,right, because you're more
you're you're more conservativein your Catholicism as I am,
okay, And so on and so on. Soyou call yourself traditional.
Let me tell you something.Sedivacantists call themselves
traditionalist Catholics too.
(10:28):
Well, why do you have the samelabel if one of you is orthodox
and the other is an apostate?Radical traditionalists call
themselves traditionalists. Why?Because their disposition is
very different from yours. Ifyou're just a normal Catholic
who calls themselvestraditional, their disposition
is very different from yours,but you have the
Speaker 2 (10:48):
same label. You don't think that's disconcerting? Take
it from me. Take it from
Speaker 1 (10:53):
me because I've I've been in that dirt, and I can
tell you it it is disconcerting.So just be aware of that. So
that's where I stand. Because ofmy past rolling with the SETIs,
I felt very, angry that I verynearly left the church because
of these people. And why didn'tI leave the church?
(11:16):
Because I wasn't I didn't likethe answers I was getting. What
does Vatican two say? Why doesit say that? How could the Holy
Spirit abandon the church? Well,the Holy Spirit didn't abandon
the church.
The Holy Spirit is still withthe church. No. No. No. No.
Wait. Wait. Wait. You're sayingthe pope is invalid. You're
saying the the chair of Peter isempty.
Why? How could the Holy Spiritlet that happen? That doesn't
(11:39):
compute. How could the how couldVatican II be an illegitimate
council? That does not compute.
So the Holy Spirit was not withthe council fathers? No. Then
when did the Holy Spirit stopshowing up for work?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
At Vatican 1? At Trent? Because if we don't know
when the Holy Spirit stopsshowing up, then we can't take
any of
Speaker 1 (12:03):
the councils seriously. And if we can't take
any of the councils seriously,then Jesus lied to us.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
And if Jesus lied to us, then he can't be God. And if
he can't
Speaker 1 (12:14):
be God, what are we going
Speaker 2 (12:16):
to mass for anyway? It's a house
Speaker 1 (12:19):
of cards that comes tumbling down. And no one, from
the most educated layperson totwo priests to their bishop,
quote unquote bishop. No onecould give me an answer that was
logical and survived logicalexamination. And it was at that
point that I stopped in mytracks and I said, I better look
for these answers myself. Withthe understanding that the were
(12:41):
probably correct.
I was looking for answers withthe understanding that the SETIs
are probably correct. They justsuck at making their own
arguments. So I will make themfor them. Didn't work out that
way. I slowly discovered thatthe sedevacantists were very
skilled and crafty liars, andthey were sucky at making their
(13:03):
own arguments.
They were distorting the facts.They were telling the story they
wanted to be told. I startedreading the the Vatican Council,
the Second Vatican Councilmyself, and so on and so on and
so on. The research set me free.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
And so I know their arguments very well. I
researched their arguments verythoroughly over time.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
And so we're gonna talk about the word betrayal
here in a second, but I feltvery betrayed, and I felt like a
fool. And I never again, neveragain would I tolerate anything
that sounded like asedevacantist argument because I
know it for the poison that itis. And some people who fall for
it, they are fooled, as I hadhad very nearly been fooled.
(13:56):
They're just they're innocentvictims. They're fooled.
Some of them know that it'spoison, and they swallow it
because they want to. And I'msorry. I am a loyal son of the
church, and you will not attackmy mother, and you will not take
a lash to the back of themystical body of Jesus Christ.
Not on my watch, my friend.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Nope. Been defending the
Speaker 1 (14:20):
faith since I was 13 years old. Defending it against
heresy, defending it againstpaganism, defending it against
disloyalty, defending
Speaker 2 (14:28):
it against Protestants. And now I stand
ready to defend it against herchildren too. Not on my watch.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
And it's not for my sake. It's for the sake of my
brothers and sisters. And that'sthat's the only reason I started
getting into evangelization andand apologetics is because I
wanted to defend my brothers andsisters who were being lied to
by Protestants, by pagans, byMuslims. Literal pagans, by the
way. I'm not being figurative.
Literal pagans. Wanted to defendmy brothers
Speaker 2 (14:58):
and sisters. And that's what I'm doing now. Let's
talk about the church and hernaughty children. Let's
Speaker 1 (15:05):
go back to this comment. I wanna thank you,
those of you who are latecomers,joining me. God bless you. God
be with you. This is theCatholic Adventurer coming at
you like a runaway freighttrain, and I'm very sorry.
Let's get to it. I'm gonna takethis statement by statement. I'm
gonna go pretty quickly. If youhave any questions, comments,
(15:26):
concerns, gripes, complaints,drop a comment. Well, I mean,
drop obviously a comment in thelive session here, and I'll get
to it.
If you're catching this ondemand, drop a comment, or DM
me, but you can only DM me ifyou're following me, so you're
gonna have
Speaker 2 (15:41):
to follow first. Let's get to it. If a
drastically new form of
Speaker 1 (15:46):
the mass were introduced today, one that
differed from the novusordae Asmuch as the novisordae differs
from the traditional Latin mass,many Catholics would likely feel
disoriented, even betrayed. Letme start there because that one
really pisses me off. I want tobe as soon as I get this off the
(16:10):
screen, I wanna be very clear.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
The church does not betray. The church is our
mother. And where our mothergoes, we go.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
And that's it. There's no questions asked.
Where our mother goes, we go.Period. We are the ones who
betray.
The church does not betray. Thechurch is not our servant, and
the church is not our child.This is some some stuff that I
said in my comment to that post.The church is not our servant.
The church is
Speaker 2 (16:40):
not our child. The church can't betray. The church
is not beneath us. The church isnot at our disposal. The
institutional church.
I'm not talking about theshepherds of the church.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Obviously, the shepherds serve the people. I'm
talking about the institutionbecause that's what he's talking
about. Let's be clear. Let's bereal, real clear. The church
does not betray drastically newform of the mass.
Listen. This drastically newform of the mass there
Speaker 2 (17:08):
were many liturgies with many forms throughout
Speaker 1 (17:13):
the first few hundred years of of Christendom. What
matters in the liturgy is thesubstance of the lit is the
liturgical substance. That'swhat matters in the liturgy is
the liturgical substance. Whatmatters is there's a liturgy of
the of the word, a liturgy of
Speaker 2 (17:28):
the Eucharist, the prayers of institution, the
consecration, and so forth.Obviously, there's
Speaker 1 (17:36):
more to the liturgy than that. But those are the
substantial components of
Speaker 2 (17:40):
the liturgy. Okay? The confession of sin,
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I confess to almighty God that I have gravely sinned,
and so on. All that stuff.That's the substance of the
liturgy. And that is thesubstance of the Novus Ordo Mass
is identical to the substance ofthe traditional Latin Mass, even
though the form is different.And the
Speaker 2 (18:00):
form isn't even that dramatically different. It's not
different in a way that matters.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Now, taking this at a at face value, it's a
drastically new form of themass. Well, to a Catholic, that
sounds horrifying. Drasticallynew form? But this is an
unchanging church. I know thisbecause I heard these arguments
from the SETIs.
This is supposed to be anunchanging church. But here we
(18:28):
have a drastically new form ofthe mass. It's nonsense. It's
nonsense. Because it's someonesaying drastically new form as
if it has value.
It is statement that has novalue unless all you care about
is the the mass. If all you careabout is the mass, if the and
(18:50):
I'm not saying this applies toMedFred, and I'm not saying it
applies to all traditionalists.I'm just saying, if all you care
about the mass and if the massis is your god, then I can
understand why that would rubyou raw. But that would make you
a pagan who believes in Jesusand goes to church. And I'm
(19:13):
sorry to be so flippant andmaybe even rude as
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I say that because that's not what is in my heart.
I'm doing this to protect thepeople who have not been fooled
yet and hopefully to knock alittle sense in the ones who
have. Not for my glory, butbecause I care about you and I
love you.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
One that differed from the novas ordo no no
sorter. As much as the novasordo differs from the
traditional Latin mass, manyCatholics would likely be
disoriented. Is that right? Isis that so? Because
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I wouldn't be disoriented. I wouldn't care if
we had to
Speaker 1 (19:56):
go to church standing on our heads during the entire
mass and we had to spin aroundor do cartwheels when we go up
to receive communion? I don'tcare. You wanna change you wanna
change the language of the massfrom the vernacular to Swahili?
I don't care. But you betterteach me a little Swahili so I
(20:16):
can do the responses.
Oh, you don't want me to respondeither? Okay. I don't care. I
don't care. Are the readingsstill being read?
Yes. Is the Eucharist stillbeing consecrated? Yes.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Then I don't care about the rest. I don't care.
Change whatever you want. Idon't care.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I understand some people do care about that. Hey.
In general, I'm not a guy wholikes change.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I hate change. I don't like cha
Speaker 1 (20:42):
I don't like something being moved from there
to there. I don't like goingfrom a my wife just recently did
this. I don't like going from anice wood floor to a carpet
being on the floor. I don't likechange. I'm a very, very, very
traditional minded guy, and Ilike things to stay the same.
But when it comes to the mass,hey, it's not furniture. This is
(21:05):
how we worship God. And thechurch has total authority,
total competence in inregulating that or in or in
advancing that and protectingthat, and the church is the
only, the chief and solecustodian of the liturgy. My
friends, if you want traditionalCatholicism, I just laid it out
for you.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Competence, authority, and it is the sole
custodian of the liturgy. That'straditional Catholicism, my
friends. The church wants tochange the form of the mass
tomorrow? Okay. I don't care.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
I understand, though, that some people would feel
disoriented, as Matt Fred saidhere. Some people will feel
disoriented. Okay.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
You know what? They'll get over it. They'll get
Speaker 1 (21:52):
over it. Because let me tell
Speaker 2 (21:52):
you something. When I tell first communicants,
Speaker 1 (21:57):
you will not receive communion in your hands the
first time you receivecommunion. In this class, you
are receiving on your tongue.I'm going to teach you how to
receive communion in your handsbecause the church does not say
it's wrong. Therefore, I willnot
Speaker 2 (22:10):
say it's wrong, and I don't. But in this class,
Speaker 1 (22:14):
this is how you'll do it for the first time.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
You'll receive on your tongue. Don't you
Speaker 1 (22:19):
think those poor children are going to feel
disoriented? When they grow up,seeing everyone receiving in
Speaker 2 (22:24):
their hands, they might feel
Speaker 1 (22:25):
a little disoriented. Tough. Because this is the way
it is. You know what? Kitties,after you
Speaker 2 (22:32):
do it two, three, four times, you're not gonna
Speaker 1 (22:34):
feel disoriented. You'll feel like you're doing
Speaker 2 (22:37):
it right and everyone else is doing it wrong. You'll
get over it. Real fast, you'regonna get over that.
Disoriented? Why?
Where the church goes, you go.There's no disorientation.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
The church is not getting lost. As long as you're
following the church, you won'tget lost either. So why would
you feel disoriented?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Come on. So that part of
Speaker 1 (22:59):
the statement really, really bugged me. Like, who the
hell are you? You're steeringthe ship? You're driving the
bus? Why should you worry aboutfeeling disoriented if you're
just a passenger on thisjourney, on this pilgrimage,
with the church, our mother onEarth?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
They would feel disoriented, even betrayed. That
betrayed part is telling. Thatbetrayed part is telling. If you
believe the church is at
Speaker 1 (23:30):
your service, then yes, I can see how you might
feel betrayed. If you believethe church is your mother and
you go where your mother goes,there's no there's no forum for
betrayal. It just doesn't existin that world. So that one
really got under my skin becauseit's really very telling.
Betrayed?
I'm sorry. No. No. No. No.
(23:54):
And I'm gonna draw the come to aconclusion with all this. This
is not just spitting out a bunchof words, by the way. I'm gonna
I'm gonna tie this into a nicelittle bow in just a second. The
statement continues, and yetthose same Catholics are often
often dismissed TLM attendees asrigid or overly sensitive. Can
we all agree that traditionalLatin mass attendees are overly
(24:17):
sensitive?
You can't even ask them aquestion without them drawing
out the knives and pitchforks,trying to cut your throat,
trying to poke your eyes. Youcan't even ask them a question
about their unique expression ofthe Catholic faith. It's it's
unique does not mean it's crazytown. I understand their
(24:41):
expression of it, but it isunique because it's
extraordinary, unfortunately.It's unfortunately extraordinary
these days to do things likedevotions.
That's extraordinary these days,and that is unfortunate. But you
can't even ask them questions.Why do you attend a traditional
Latin mass? You can't even askthem that question without them
(25:03):
getting ready to punch you inthe face. Well, I always felt I
just always felt weird, likepeople were staring at me
whenever I received communion onthe tongue and kneeling down.
You felt weird? Wait a second.You felt weird that people were
(25:25):
staring at you? And so you hadto go to a traditional Latin
mass to be surrounded by peoplewho are also kneel? My friend,
I've been kneeling for communionfor twenty five years.
And I'm gonna be very, veryfrank with you. Do you think I
give a shit if anyone's staringat me? And twenty five years
ago, I was rather a youngling,someone who cared about people's
(25:49):
opinions, sort of. I didn'treally, but, you know, I didn't
care if people were looking atme funny. Hopefully, they were
learning something from me.
I didn't care. Why should you?Who cares if they're staring? My
god. You're Catholic in a paganworld.
You're a Catholic in a paganworld. You're already a weirdo.
(26:12):
By being Catholic in a paganworld, you're already a weirdo.
Who cares if other Catholics arestaring at you for kneeling to
receive communion? No matter howgently I would say that, I would
get a very hostile response fromthe person I was having this
conversation with.
And I've had this with thisconversation with many such
(26:33):
persons. Very, very sensitive.Very super, super, super
sensitive. And frankly,
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I just don't get it. And I'm
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I'm naturally a sensitive guy myself, but
sensitivity does have itslimits. Danny in the chat room
says, we always took the 1962missile reverently, but the
source and summit is theEucharist no matter what. Bingo.
Period. The source and summit isis the Eucharist.
Is the is the is the is the,consecration valid? Then I'm
(27:05):
good. I'm good. You can say themath in English, Latin, Swahili,
Greek, Spanish, pig Latin. Idon't care.
You can do the you can celebrateat Orientum or facing the
people.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I don't care. I really don't care.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
And my friends, I don't wanna speak for God, but I
don't think God cares as much asyou do. I think he cares that
the the look. Worship isoriented toward God. Of course,
he cares about it. But theliturgy is composed and
(27:49):
forwarded by his by his church.
He accepts it. It's licit. Heaccepts it. Okay? He's not
turning his nose up at itbecause the priest is facing the
people.
Guys, come on. I can almostguarantee you he's not up there
(28:11):
going, no. Not having it. I can
Speaker 2 (28:15):
almost guarantee you that's not happening. Come on.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Well, the mass has to be very reverent. Well, I'm I'm
all for reverent, but I don'tlike how traditionalists and
some others throw that termaround. Who are you that you're
gonna make the mass morereverent than the consecration
of the Eucharist on the altar?You're gonna make it
Speaker 2 (28:34):
more reverent than that? Who who are you? Because I
would love to get to know you.You're saying you have
Speaker 1 (28:41):
a way of making the mass more reverent than the
sacrifice of the lamb of God whotakes away the sin of the world,
the sacrifice of the lamb of Godon that altar. You're saying you
have a way
Speaker 2 (28:51):
of making it more reverent than Jesus Christ?
Please DM me because we need tobe friends.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I'm very traditional minded. I like old school music,
except these days, I kind ofdon't care even about old
school. I don't care. It can belike the oldest old school
music. I
Speaker 2 (29:10):
okay. That's great. I value it, but I don't need it.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
I receive communion on on my knees and on my tongue,
obviously. You know, I I lovereverence, but reverence has its
place. And we also need to askourselves, what do we
Speaker 2 (29:27):
mean by reverence? Reverence according to who?
According to you? Tell me, whoare you? And why does your
standard best the standard ofGod?
Because you know what
Speaker 1 (29:40):
a a reverent sacrifice was biblically?
Throwing together an altar madeof stones and rocks and a slab,
offering the altar to God. Nowit's consecrated. Right? Now
it's like his altar.
Right? And then making asacrifice on that altar, and
(30:04):
that was reverent. Can you dobetter than that? Because now we
have a properly
Speaker 2 (30:12):
ceremonially consecrated altar.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
So the consecration is real. It's not symbolic like
it was, for instance, in the OldTestament. It's a it's a real
consecration. And then the theEucharist is is offered as as
the eternal sacrifice of JesusChrist. It's the most reverent
mass or liturgy sacrifice thatwe can offer.
(30:37):
I mean, it's the son of God onthe altar. Can you do better
than that? Anyway, babbling on.For leading the Catholic okay.
Catholics often dismiss TLMattendees as rigid or overly
sensitive for feeling the exactsame way about the changes
Speaker 2 (30:55):
imposed imposed imposed on them after Vatican
two. My friends, the church isnot yours, and the mass is not
yours. So that when
Speaker 1 (31:11):
a church says this is gonna be different now, that's
not
Speaker 2 (31:14):
an imposition. That's the church doing. That's the
church being what
Speaker 1 (31:21):
it was supposed to be. That's the church acting in
accord with its nature as theinstitution of faith with the
authority of the apostles, givento it by Jesus Christ. That's
the church being the church. Andtherefore, that's not an
imposition. That's just thechurch being the church.
And we follow, or we say, I willnot serve, and we do our own
thing. There is no imposition.The church is our mother. She's
(31:46):
leading us in this pilgrimage onearth. That's not an imposition.
That's the church saying, comechildren, we're going this way
now, and we just follow. Andthat's that. So I understand
where Matt Fred is coming from.I'm not anti Matt Fred. I think
he's a good guy, good familyman.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
I think he's he's very super talented. Good guy.
Good Catholic. Good Catholic.But the crying about the mass,
I'm not
Speaker 1 (32:14):
gonna I'm I'm not going to indulge you for a
second. I can't. I was nearlybamboozled by sedevacantis.
Sedevacantism has infected themodern church. It has infected
the modern church.
Most radical traditionalists,not all traditionalists, I'm
talking about the radical kind,Most radical traditionalists
(32:37):
that I haven't have that I'vehad conversations with, they're
sedevacantists. They just don'tknow it. Everything they say is
sedevacantism. That poison isstarting to work its way into,
let's say, normaltraditionalism. Because I'm
hearing sedevacantist ideas,thought, theology, thought
(32:58):
processes, distortions anddisfigurements of facts that are
the the hallmark ofsedevacantism.
I'm starting to hear that fromnormal traditionalists too. And
so thirty years of this, myfriends, I've heard every
argument against the mass. I'veheard every possible argument
(33:18):
against Vatican two, and I Ijust won't make time for it
Speaker 2 (33:23):
anymore. It's inexcusable as far as I'm
concerned. It's justinexcusable. Because the church
is our mother.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
The church is not our daughter. Church is not our
child. Church is our mother.Where the church goes, we
follow, and that's that. Wherethe church leads, we go, and
that's that.
The church has competency,authority, and the church is the
sole custodian of the liturgy.That's traditional Catholicism,
brothers and sisters. And it istrue or it is not. And if it is
(33:57):
not, then Jesus is a liar. IfJesus is a liar, he can't be
God.
And if he's not God, then thereis no God. And if there is no
God, then why are
Speaker 2 (34:04):
we going to mass? It's a logical house of cards
that comes tumbling down.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
In conclusion, do I think traditionalists are
naughty children? Some of them,many of them are, if I'm being
honest. I really want to becharitable. I really do because
I love you and I care about you.But but many of
Speaker 2 (34:21):
them are. And some are not naughty. Some are not.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
That doesn't mean that they're evil. Just means
and there's naughtinesseverywhere in the church. Right?
There's naughtiness. God.
Folks, we don't have to statethe obvious. We know there's
naughtiness on the left too.Right? I mean, that's obvious.
We all know that.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Right? Progressivism and whatnot.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
You want you want you want you wanna really see how I
Speaker 2 (34:54):
can freak you right out? The progressivism that we
saw in the seventies soundsconservative compared to the
progressivism that's taking roottoday. You're not seeing it yet.
You're gonna see it.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
You're gonna start to hear it. It's going to be better
hidden.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
But if you look, if you poke and prod, you'll see
it. They'll admit it. But I'mnot
Speaker 1 (35:24):
worried about that because God wins. The church
always wins. The holy spirit'son this. I am not worried about
modernism. And besides,modernism isn't Catholicism
anyway.
That's a heresy. Butprogressivism that isn't
modernist, it's just very, veryleft leaning. I'm not worried
about that either. I'm reallynot. I'm really not.
(35:47):
I don't think we're going tohave another heyday of modernism
that we saw, like, in theseventies or late sixties going
into the eighties. I don't thinkwe're gonna see that again. I I
do not see any hint of thathappening. I think that time has
passed, and there's just somepeople what we're seeing today
(36:07):
is the last dying breath ofmodernism in the church. That I
do believe.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
And I know that's a huge statement, and I say it
with confidence. I say it
Speaker 1 (36:18):
with confidence with a very informed perspective. So,
yes, there's naughtiness on theleft, and there's naughtiness on
the right.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
And it's important that we acknowledge that and say
to ourselves, you know what?
Speaker 1 (36:34):
It's true. The church is not the Boy Scouts. The
church is not a political party.The church is the military. And
if a military is only as strongas its unity, then we have a
problem with the military andthe church because we're not
united.
We're factioning. We're dividingourselves. We're planting our
(36:55):
feet in the camps that we chooseand prefer, and we're calling
that home. And so effectively,those camps become a church
within a church. There was aterm for that because this even
happened in the early churchtoo, this sort of thing.
At the time, like, what we callas what we call, like,
(37:18):
traditionalists radicals.Traditionalists and, modernists.
At the time, it was laxists andrigorous. See, there ain't
nothing new under the sun. And Ithink it was the church in
France when France was still,like, the the crown jewel of,
(37:38):
Christian Europe.
The French term for it was like,little church, what I call a
church within a church. That'swhat we're seeing forming is
churches within the church. Youknow what happens to
Speaker 2 (37:56):
a military where the troops are factioning, divided,
and encamped amongst themselvesin groups.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
You know what happens to that army? It loses. But the
church can't lose. This a churchwho does things that by that, I
mean, lowercase c church topeople. The church cannot lose.
So what what is going to happenis God is going to do something.
Could be an an infusion ofgrace. It could be, I don't
(38:28):
know, miraculous conversion. Godis going to do something to snap
the people out of their hypnosisbecause the church this divided
loses. Well, the church can'tlose the final battle between
good and evil.
That's just not going to happen.So how do we reconcile the
church's destiny with thechurch's current condition?
(38:52):
Well, God is going to work thatout. And I believe he's already
started. I strongly believe he'salready started.
We're not going to have anotherheyday of modernism in the
church. Things are going to getvery, very good again. You just
wait and see. You just wait andsee. Danny in the chat room
(39:14):
says, we all look a little bitout of place being Catholic.
That's what I'm saying. That'swhat I'm saying. You you bless
yourself to say grace in themiddle of a restaurant. You look
like a weirdo. Everyone's gonnastare at you.
Who cares? Let them stare. Whocares? People wanna stare at you
for receiving communion,kneeling down. Who cares?
So folks, that's gonna cover it.I wanna tell you, thank you for
(39:37):
checking out this live. This wassupposed to be quick. I always
start out every broadcast sayingthis is gonna be quick, and then
I talk for nine hours. I'mcrazy.
Check out the link in my biobecause my Substack is in there.
And if you like what's on thisplatform, if you like the stuff
I put up, I'm telling you, it'sshallow compared to where I go
on Substack between the longform podcasts, the, the articles
(40:01):
and essays and blogs I write andstuff like that. I go mad deep.
So if you want the good stuff,if you want the rich stuff, if
you wanna dive down deep, checkout my Substack. The link is in
the bio.
You do not have to subscribe tosee what I have there, but I
hope you do subscribe becauseit's free and you get notified
every time I publish somethingnew. You don't have to trust the
(40:24):
algorithm, rely on thealgorithm. You don't have to
worry if I get deplatformed,which I'm like that close to
being deplatformed from TikTok.You don't have to worry about
that. Because if you'resubscribed to my Substack, I
always have a way to reach outto you and let you know where I
am next.
I and every time I publishsomething, you get an email
letting you know about it, andit's free. What do you care? If
(40:50):
you're not following me here, Iencourage you, please do, and
please tap like. If you seesomething that I post that you
even like a smidge, just taplike. It's not costing you
anything.
I say that because every liketells the in the algorithm this
post is worthy of betterdistribution. Every like on a
(41:14):
post tells the algorithm thisaccount is worthy of better
distribution. Do you understand?So it really it's not about ego
for me. It's it's that everylike helps to get this work
spread further and further andfurther.
Every like helps to spread thetruth. That song is too short.
(41:34):
God bless you, my friends. Godbe with you all. Please say hail
Mary for me and my family.
I really would appreciate that.And, I guess I'll see you on the
rebound. Catholic Adventurersigning out of here. God be with
you all. Bye bye.
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