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Dr. Carron Silva interviewed me for her podcast, Forgiveness is for you: Overcoming Trauma through Forgiveness and she has graciously allowed me to share it here as well.
The holidays can be a stressful time, especially when alcohol adds anxiety to family gatherings, celebrations, or even trips.
In this episode, I open up about my battle with alcohol, my 27+ years of sobriety, and how I now help high-achieving women find lasting freedom.
I also share practical tips for navigating alcohol during the holidays to safeguard your peace and protect your relationships.
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Ep 88: Healing through Forgiveness: Dr. Carron Silva's Journey and Insights
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi everyone, I'm starting off this podcast a
little bit different.
First of all, I just want tothank all of you for listening,
for being with me, for sharingthis podcast with others.
Today is the two-yearanniversary of the start of my
podcast, and I could not do thiswithout you.
Well, I guess I could just talkto myself, but it's so much
(00:24):
more fun with friends, am Iright?
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Thank you for all of yourencouraging words, your comments
, your support and just beinghere and pushing play.
I thank you so much.
Now, today's episode is a littlebit different.
Also, this is an interview thatI did with Dr Karen Silva on
(00:48):
her podcast Forgiveness Is Foryou Overcoming Trauma Through
Forgiveness.
Dr Karen interviewed me.
We talked about my own journeyof forgiveness, and then we talk
about the holidays and how thepresence of alcohol can bring
anxiety, both for those whodrink and those who love people
(01:11):
who drink.
So you do not want to miss thisepisode.
Definitely go over and checkout Dr Karen's podcast.
Again, it's called Forgivenessis for you.
She has an amazing lineup ofguests.
She shares so much wisdom andinsight and I know that you will
(01:31):
be blessed by listening to her.
So stick around, listen to theepisode and again, thank you and
God bless bless Friends, ourguest today I'm so excited to
introduce to you.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I actually appeared on her podcast to talk about
forgiveness and today I amwelcoming Christy Walker, who is
known as the Catholic sobrietycoach.
She is a wife, a mom of three,a life and sobriety coach,
speaker and host of the CatholicSobriety Podcast.
Having lived an alcohol-freelife for over 27 years, she
(02:16):
specializes in helping otherCatholic women experience
alcohol freedom so they too canenjoy living fully present,
fully alive and fully claimingtheir true identity in Christ.
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Christy.
Hi, karen, thank you so muchfor having me today.
It's a pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yes, I'm so excited.
The first thing I always askguests is what's your story,
what's your big, why?
Why are you doing this work?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So my story begins with my first drink of alcohol,
I guess, and why I'm doing whatI'm doing and why I do the work
that I do.
It came down to really justwanting to be part of a group,
wanting to be liked.
I was searching for an identityand I found that when I found
(03:09):
this magical elixir, alcoholwhen I was in high school and
the thing with me is that Iactually never drank, quote,
unquote, normally I got superintoxicated the very first time
that I consumed alcohol andpretty much every time.
After that, I went through myhigh school years with a group
of friends.
(03:30):
They were, you know, a greatgroup of friends, but we just
drank and partied as much as wecould, honestly, and not during
the week, but definitely on theweekends, and we had parents
that would buy us alcohol andlet us drink in the house and
thought they were cool for doingthat, and so I had access to it
(03:51):
.
My mom didn't know about it,but you know I had access to
that and as I kept going throughthe years, it just didn't
really stop.
I kept drinking after highschool.
I was going to go to college,but I dropped out after a
semester.
I just wanted to have a job.
I just wanted to party anddrink and do all that.
(04:14):
So of course I gravitated tothose people who were doing
those things.
And then my family and I movedfrom.
I used to live in Idaho.
We moved to the PacificNorthwest.
I wasn't really sure I wantedto, but my mom knew that things
weren't going right with me,that I wasn't making the best
choices, and she I was 19 at thetime and she just really urged
(04:36):
me to please come with her andmy stepdad and my brother.
So I did and for a while Ididn't drink.
Things went really well.
But as you do when you havethis addiction, I just ended up
finding those people that drinkand I kept doing that.
Of course, after I turned 21, itdidn't get better, it got worse
(04:56):
, because then I could buy myown alcohol and it got more
dangerous because, I'm ashamedto say, but I was driving and
doing lots of things I shouldn'thave been doing.
I was like burning throughroommates, like crazy, because
people could only take me for solong.
I should say that I'm a cradleCatholic, but I had just kind of
(05:18):
.
It's not that I didn't believein God anymore, or even that I
didn't identify as Catholic,because I did, but I just didn't
really feel like God reallycared that much about me and
what I was doing and I kind offelt like maybe I had already
burnt that bridge, so to speak.
And so I just kind of wentabout my life just doing
(05:41):
whatever I wanted, whatever Ithought would bring me happiness
, bring me joy, whether that waspeople, whether that was things
, and it was definitely alcohol.
And then one night my roommateshad moved and I was getting
ready to go to my next place,that I was going to go to my
next roommate, and I had drunkmyself, passed out, blacked out,
(06:04):
whatever.
And this evening was different.
I actually woke up very scaredbecause I felt like there were
two hands around my neck chokingme.
I felt like I was being chokedand it was so I can still feel
it when I even talk about it.
And I looked up and there wasjust like this dark, looming,
(06:26):
oppressive figure over me and Iwas like, okay, this is it, like
I'm not going to make it, I'mgoing to die.
But then all of a sudden therewas like this lighter figure
that kind of came up over and,like, took that dark figure away
and said not yet.
And so I wish that I could saythat in that moment, like it
(06:47):
changed everything and I stoppeddrinking and I went back to
church and everything.
But it didn't really work likethat.
However, I can say that thatwas really a moment that was a
turning point for me, because Irealized like maybe God is
fighting for me, maybe Goddoesn't want this for me, maybe
this isn't the life that he hasdestined for me, and I didn't
(07:08):
really screw everything up.
It took me a really long timeto work through all of that mess
, but I can say that that waslike that time.
I did keep drinking.
It just really wasn't the samefor me, but I just did continue
with it.
And when I was like 23,continue with it.
And when I was like 23, I had ajob.
And then my roommate at thetime there her mom was my boss
(07:31):
and her mom was like Christy, ifyou don't stop drinking, you're
going to lose your job becauseyou're not very dependable, and
all of that.
And I loved the work that I did.
I wasn't excited to hear that.
And then my roommate also saidif you don't get cleaned up and
do something, stop drinking,you're going to have to find
another place to live and Imoved like every year for like
(07:52):
seven years I mean.
I just moved constantly.
I felt like, and I didn'treally want to do that.
So I checked myself into anoutpatient treatment.
I think I was sober for 90 days.
I wasn't really excited to bethere.
I wasn't really happy about thepeople there.
I felt not.
I just didn't feel like I waslike any of them.
I'm like I'm not that bad.
I had never gotten a DUI, never.
(08:12):
I haven't lost a home or afamily or a job or you know.
Well, I almost did.
But so I just kind of had thatmentality like I am so much
better than all these people andso I didn't take it as
seriously as I should have.
I did go through that program.
I think I got 90 days, but afterthat I was still doing
everything I normally did goingto the bars, just like glaring
(08:35):
at everybody because they weredrinking and I wasn't able to,
and all of that I starteddrinking again.
But this time it really reallywasn't like it was before, where
I would feel a lot of likeguilt about it.
And it finally got to the pointwhere I'm like, christy, if you
do not stop drinking, you aregoing to die, you are going to
(08:57):
end up homeless, you are goingto hurt someone.
You know like there's somereally terrible things that are
going to happen to you if you donot stop this right now.
And so one night I just waslike, okay, god, this is it.
Like I'm just going to drinkmyself until I pass out and I'm
going to wake up in the morningand not do it anymore.
(09:19):
And I did that, and by thegrace of God, I did that.
I did not do that alone.
And so when I told my mom aboutit later, she said well, do you
know what day that is?
Do you know your sobriety day?
Do you know what that is?
And I was like I don't know.
And she's like that's, it's.
My grandma and I had a superclose relationship and so that
(09:50):
meant a lot to me.
So that was like extraincentive, like not to screw it
up, like this has to be mysobriety date, like you cannot
mess this up.
And then my mom had a friend whohad been in Alcoholics
Anonymous for a really long timeand she came and visited and
talked to me about AlcoholicsAnonymous.
She took me to my first meeting, but it wasn't in a place where
I would regularly go, so thatwasn't a meeting I could
(10:12):
continue to go to because I wasin a different state.
But she was like, okay, now youneed to do this on your own,
you need to get yourself to yourown meeting.
And she told me how to find oneand all of that.
So I did that and I remembersitting in the car just being
like I am not going in there, Iam not going in there, but I did
(10:33):
.
I ended up walking in the doorand I ended up sharing my story
and I told them.
I'm like, quite honestly, Ididn't want to come in here.
I would not not be in hereexcept for the fact that I feel
like God just picked me up andlike brought me in here because
there was nothing in me thatwanted me to be here today and
(10:53):
everyone was really supportive Iwas the youngest that was there
at that time and at most of themeetings that I went to, but
everybody was always reallysupportive and and loving to me
and I stayed there for a coupleof years.
I attended AA, I should say fora couple of years, and then I
just as I started growing intofaith.
I just kept moving more andmore towards the Lord, and so I
(11:17):
just kind of saw it as like thisis God and I and we're going
through this Now.
I didn't really work anyprogram, so to speak.
I just stayed sober and I justgrew in faith and just matured
just as a person in general,just tried to be a good person.
And so for two and a half liketwo decades, 20 years, 25 years
(11:40):
actually I didn't even reallytell many people about my
alcoholism or that I was arecovering alcoholic.
My husband knew we met likewell, after I was sober I had
been sober for quite a while andmy mom knew and I would tell
friends and like certain people,but it wasn't something that I
(12:00):
really talked about.
In AA they really kind of drillit into you like you need to
give back to others what was sofreely given to you.
So I had kind of played aroundwith the idea of maybe becoming
an alcohol counselor, becoming apsychologist, like all of these
different things, but none ofthem, nothing just really felt
right for me.
(12:20):
And so I had a digitalmarketing business that I had
built up and I was looking tomaybe build that up even more.
So I contacted a Catholicbusiness coach and I was working
with her and through that I waslike I really think that God is
calling me to coaching and Ihad felt him kind of calling me
(12:41):
out of my secular digitalmarketing business.
But I didn't know what thatmeant and I tried lots of things
and nothing was it.
And so when I said that to her,she's like great, who are you
going to coach?
And I was like I don't know.
So she's like well, take thatto the Lord, pray with him,
invite the Holy Spirit in andask.
And so I was like no-transcript.
(13:31):
And my mom brought me a coin andanybody who's in AA or knows
much about it knows that thereare these coins that they give
you or medallions that representthe year of sobriety that you
have just to commemorate it.
I hadn't gotten one of thesesince I was two years sober.
So I was like oh, that's nice,you know, I thought that was
(13:51):
just a nice gesture.
She and my husband alwaysremember my sobriety date but I
didn't really think much aboutit.
But in that moment God was likeno, this isn't just for you
anymore.
Like I've equipped you, I'mcalling you and now you need to
help others.
So I told my business coach I'mlike, well, I guess God wants
me to help women in recoverylike me, and so that's where it
(14:15):
started.
And I thought I was just goingto work with women in recovery
doing life coaching, because youknow, when we stop drinking,
everything doesn't magically getbetter.
Like there's a lot of otherwork that needs to be done.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yes, and so yeah yeah .
Speaker 1 (14:30):
And so I was like, well, I'll work with women with
like a year or more sober, soyou know, to do more life
coaching stuff and and I haveand I did.
But then God kept showing methese women who wouldn't
necessarily ever go to a 12 stepprogram.
They're not quote unquoteaddicts, but they are definitely
(14:52):
bothered by the amount ofalcohol they are drinking and
how often they are drinking andthey are feeling extremely out
of control.
And these women, most of them,on the outside they look like
they have it all together, likethey're doing the mom stuff, the
wife stuff, the church stuff,business stuff, but inside
(15:13):
they're just like feeling somuch guilt and shame around how
much they're drinking or thefact that it's increasing so
much, and many of them havebackgrounds of like family
members that drink and they'relike I don't want to get there.
So those women didn't reallyhave anyone to turn to or talk
to or figure out like how toeven find out what level of
(15:37):
sobriety would be good for them.
And so that's where the Lordagain was like you're going to
stand in the gap and you'regoing to be there.
And that was a hard mind shiftfor me because I've always been
pretty black and white.
That's where the Lord again waslike you're going to stand in
the gap and you're going to bethere.
And that was a hard mind shiftfor me because I've always been
pretty black and white, likeeither you can drink or you
(15:57):
can't drink.
Like my husband can drink.
He can have one or two and he'sgood, like that's it.
And I don't understand that.
My brain is like what, how canyou do that?
But then there's people like mewho just can't.
But there is this whole grayarea of people who just kind of
moderate and but can struggle.
But once they find what worksfor them, then they can take it
or leave it with peace.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, so you get them to that place where they have a
relationship with alcohol.
That's a healthy relationship,right?
Yes, exactly yes.
As I was listening to yourstory, what came up for me was
your experience with the spirit.
You had the dark spirit andthen you had the spirit of light
(16:37):
.
Where do you think that camefrom?
You said you were raisedCatholic, but you weren't really
practicing your Catholicism.
And yet, did you ever questionwhy, then, and why this
particular image, other than youknew that you had work to do
later?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I think, well recognizing.
Now that I've kind of studiedspiritual gifts and I've gone
through understanding what mineare and what my strengths are, I
definitely know that I have a,that discernment of spirits is
one of my gifts.
I don't see in the spirit orany, you know, like anything
(17:17):
super exciting that other peopledo, but I definitely have a
sense of good and evil, dark andlight when it comes to certain
things and situations, and Idon't know if that was something
that God gifted me with foreveror if that was something that
he gifted me in that moment.
But I feel like that has reallyhelped me from that point on to
(17:44):
see like this is good, this isnot, this is of me, you know,
recognizing the counterfeitversions, because that's what
alcohol is Because the more Iunderstand the Holy Spirit and
what we experience with thatindwelling of the spirit, I mean
sometimes you see people thathave taken on the spirit and
(18:06):
they might act in ways that makethem look like they're drunk
and that is like the authentic,you know intoxication of the
spirit.
And what I was searching for allthose years was that
intoxication of the Holy Spirit,but instead I was settling for
this counterfeit version ofalcohol which so many of us do
(18:30):
so, because I had the grace ofbaptism from the time I was a
baby.
I just feel like that was likethis protection that I had and,
looking back, I was so protectedbecause, yes, there were awful
things that happened to me.
Yes, there were awful thingsthat I did, but it could have
been so much worse.
And I think in that moment,maybe that vision was also
(18:55):
showing me like I've been hereall along protecting you from
this darkness, and I think thathelps me help others, because
that's something that we allstruggle against the world and
those forces that are trying tomake us forget God's goodness
and love and they offer us thesecounterfeit versions of things
(19:19):
that seem like they'll fill usup but they just leave us empty
and reaching for more and more.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
So part of the 12 steps is to make a list of
people you harmed, includingyourself, when you worked
through that process of doingthat life inventory under the
influence and you wrote downthose names.
You had to, at some point, makeamends.
(19:48):
What was that process like foryou?
Some point, make amends.
What?
Speaker 1 (19:52):
was that process like for you?
It's hard because some peopleit's not safe to make amends
with and you know this from thework that you do and I know that
you talked about this on mypodcast, but I know you talked a
lot about this with yourclients as well but sometimes
it's not safe to make amendswith people, and so I learned
(20:13):
that I mean, I did make amendswith people like face to face,
like my mom and friends, somepeople.
It took years before I was ableto make amends with them, but I
did.
Actually, I had this one friend.
She was one of my roommates.
I was the maddest at herbecause she had kicked me out.
She made me tell my mom whatwas going on and all of these
things, and we had like a lot ofcommon friends forever.
(20:36):
If anyone said her name, likemy eye would twitch and I would
be like she's dead to me, like Idon't even.
And this was years and years andyears sober.
But one day I saw her onFacebook and it was like
Facebook was very new and Godjust like softened my heart for
her and I just wrote her thismessage like apologizing,
(21:00):
telling her all the things thatI was wrong for thanking her for
what she did and letting herknow how well my life was going
and how she contributed to that.
And she ended up reaching outand we made amends, our kids
played together.
We're still friends.
It was just like this beautifulthing.
But it was like God had tochange and soften my heart.
(21:24):
I swear it was just like fromone minute to the next, like I
can't stand her to, like, no, Ilove her.
He almost gave me his heart forher and showed me like what she
did for me and how that helpedme as well.
You know, it's very unexpectedwhen you can make amends Now
with my dad.
It took me a long time too, andhe had passed away and I was
(21:45):
like, how do you make amends orhow do you forgive and and all
of that.
But I learned that I could dothat without having to have him
in front of me to do that.
I mean, obviously he, you know,by the Lord's grace, hopefully
he can hear me.
But yeah, I think I think, justknowing you make amends to
(22:06):
those people and it says it, youknow, wherever possible except
when to do so would injure themor others, and that includes
yourself and just do that andthen when you can't do that,
then you make those amends.
You know, with the Lord andwith yourself I will say that I
did not make amends.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
When you have a span of time where you're harming
your body like you're violatingyour own body, which is a sin,
and then you have to face that.
(22:43):
What was that like for you, andhow long did it take?
Speaker 1 (22:47):
oh gosh, Karen, that took years.
Honestly, it took years andyears and years.
And because I feel like, youknow, the enemy was just
constantly like putting it in myface like, well, you did this
and you did that.
I mean, even when I was marriedand with kids and everything
and part of the church, I justfelt like he was still just like
at me.
(23:08):
But it wasn't until my husbandwent through RCIA and I made,
I'm sure, when I walked in itwas like during a reconciliation
service too, albeit and Iwalked in with like this paper
list of like three pages of likeeverything I'd ever done
written down because I confessed, confess, confess, confess.
(23:31):
And I never felt forgiven orabsolution or anything, even
though I had gotten it.
And one time this lady in myBible study said, not to be rude
, but are you saying that God isnot powerful enough to forgive
you?
Because you're saying thatyou're not forgiven, that you
don't feel forgiven, but yet youkeep asking him and he keeps
(23:53):
telling you that you're absolved.
So you know, maybe think aboutthat.
So I did, and that's when Iwent in with like my big list
and made a really super good andthorough reconciliation and I
feel like in that moment I couldfinally just let go and let God
(24:14):
love me and pour his mercy intome, and I think that that's the
first time that I was able tostart to forgive myself.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yes, and it's interesting that you walked that
journey with your husband andyou learned more right.
It's the right of initiation forpeople who are coming into the
church, and so they're learningthe foundation of what
Catholicism teaches abouteverything, and so you have
accountability there, which isbeautiful.
(24:46):
And I just want to clarify forour listeners that when we go to
the sacrament of reconciliationand that priest absolves us
from our sin, it doesn't meanwe're going to feel like that
we're forgiven.
We may not feel better at all.
We may maybe actually we mayfeel worse leaving, but it
(25:11):
doesn't mean that the words thatthe priest spoke over us were a
lie.
We can believe those because heis in persona Christi, he is
the representative of Christ,and the words that he speaks
were given to him by Christ.
When he said words that hespeaks were given to him by
(25:35):
Christ when he said whatever youbind on earth will be bound on
earth, whatever you lose will beloosed, and so we believe that.
But it doesn't mean we're goingto feel any different, and I
think people are so focused ontheir emotions that they forget
truth?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah, oh, absolutely, absolutely, and I think you're
right.
I think that's what I wassearching for, like this lifting
of, like all this dark cloud,or like feeling not feeling the
shame or never thinking about itagain.
But one of the things that theLord did give me is like, well,
when that thought comes up,first of all recognize that's
(26:11):
not of me, that's not from me,that you have that thought, and
second of all, just call in theblessed mother.
She will get rid of the enemy.
So I would just say a Hail Maryuntil it like went away.
So that could be three, thatcould be 10.
I don't know it.
Just be like just keep sayingthe Hail Mary until it goes away
(26:35):
and then just thank her andknow that she got that away and
I think that that helped me.
So, whatever helps you in thatmoment, just calling upon the
intercession of you know saints,or asking Jesus to come in and
just get rid of you know thedevil, calling upon our blessed
mother, can be so, so helpful.
(26:57):
Because and I work on this alot with my clients like what is
the way that God speaks to you?
What is the way the enemyspeaks to you?
Or you speak to yourself.
You know those are completelythey can be completely different
things.
So we need to, like, recognizewhat those thoughts are and if
they're disparaging, shaming,you know, all of those things,
(27:18):
those are not from God.
God is going to be encouraging,loving, convicting, merciful in
what he says, and so I think Ihad to really learn that, and
now I can share that with others.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Others, yes, and one of the things that I recommend
is to really become a student ofyour interior dialogue and to
recognize what happens beforeI'm thinking these things.
Where am I?
What's happening in my body?
Who's around me?
So that when those patternsstart emerging, I can go oh,
(27:55):
that's an attack.
And we believe as Christiansthat we live in a material world
, but we also have asupernatural world and they
intersect.
And when we are makingdecisions here in our material
world, some of those decisionscould be decisions that were
made because a thought wasplanted in our mind by the enemy
(28:18):
.
And drinking becominginebriated to a point where we
lose control of our body, thatcould be one of those decisions
that we make that was planted inour minds by the enemy.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Absolutely, because it darkens our will and our
intellect, which is what theenemy wants.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yes, exactly One of the things that I'd like you to
explore with our listeners isthe idea of when the holidays
are approaching and people startthinking, oh my gosh, you know
we're not going to be working,there's going to be a lot of
partying and there's going to bea lot of alcohol, and you have
(28:58):
anxiety on the part of theperson who drinks, and then you
also have anxiety on the peoplearound that person in their life
.
I just want to say as an asidehere that I grew up with a
number of alcoholics in.
I don't like calling peoplealcoholics actually, because
it's taking a term and definingtheir entire being by that word,
(29:21):
right?
So I like to say I lived with alot of people who struggled
with alcohol in my familythrough through many years, like
generations, and so for me itwas always, even as a child, my
anxiety would start building upbefore the holidays.
What do you want to say to theperson who drinks, and then also
(29:43):
the family, who areanticipating?
You know that they'reanticipating that there's going
to be drama.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, those are two different, two very different
things.
The first one the person whodrinks but is worried about how
much they're going to drink, orhas goals not to drink as much
or maybe even not at all, justto see what the holidays could
be like without it.
You know, we can think of that.
But then there's all of theselike well, I can't do it, I
(30:11):
don't have enough willpower.
No-transcript, you can totallydo it and God will help you do
it, but you have to have a planand you have to have a protocol.
And that's what I work on withmy clients a lot this time of
year as we head into theholidays.
(30:32):
Like, what events do you have?
So if it's an event that younormally go to, you kind of know
how things go.
Is there usually alcohol on thetable?
Are there?
Is there somebody there whokind of pushes alcohol, like
they're constantly like fillingup your glass or making sure you
have a drink.
Are there just situations whereyou feel like you sneak away to
(30:57):
have more because you don'twant people to see you?
Do you drink before you go tothe event so that they don't
know how much you're drinking?
Or do you drink okay at theevent.
But then you come home and youover consume because you just
need to keep going.
So there's a lot of thosethings that need to be thought
about.
So what I usually have people dois first of all come up with a
(31:20):
pros and cons list.
What does alcohol give you?
What does it take away?
Alcohol definitely gives yousomething because you drink it.
So just be very honest andwrite all that down On the other
side.
What does it take away?
Like, maybe you're not feelingas great in the morning, maybe
your gut health is off, maybeyou disappoint yourself or
others.
Just make those two lists andwhat that does is it just gives
(31:46):
you more clarity around yourdrinking, because a lot of times
we don't want to look at it.
It's kind of like my kids'bedroom If it's a mess and I ask
them to like clean it up,they'll just shove it all.
Or when they were little, theywould shove it all in the closet
.
We don't see it, then it's notthere, you know, and then you
add to it, and add to it, andadd to it.
Pretty soon it's like spillingout over.
(32:07):
The same can be true with anysort of disordered attachment or
anything right we don't want tolook at it because we're afraid
if we look at it we're going tohave to clean it up or that it
will make us feel bad.
But if we can look at it, justpull it out and look at it
without any shame or judgment.
Just look at it like you're ascientist just examining the
(32:29):
evidence.
Here's the pros, here's thecons.
Then that will help you haveclarity about your decision and
why you want to reduce oreliminate your alcohol through
the holidays.
The other thing is to know yourtriggers, cues, urges, and that
(32:49):
can definitely be around theholidays, right?
Certain people can make us wantto consume more alcohol than we
normally do.
Certain situations can make uswant to do that.
So just knowing that,especially with events that you
always have, and just having aplan If this happens, then this,
this is what I will do, this iswhat I will not do and just
(33:12):
having that written out andplanned for can be so beneficial
.
And then the other thing thatis essential is to have a
support person, even if that'sonly one person, and it may not
be your spouse, because ourspouses want to see us happy.
And so if you tell your spouseI do not want to drink tonight
(33:34):
and then later in the eveningyou come to him and you're like,
oh my gosh, I really, really,really, really want to drink.
He's going to be like, okay,because he loves you and he
wants you to be happy, and it'snot really fair for you to do
that because you know he's goingto say yes, that he wants you
to have it.
So try to have anotheraccountability person, even if
(33:55):
they're not at the event,somebody that you can text or
call or something while you'rethere, like a really good friend
or somebody else that you knowloves you and will give you that
tough love Like this is whatyou need to do.
The other thing is have an exitplan.
So if you are at an event,you're feeling very
uncomfortable.
You're feeling like you maydecide to drink when you decided
(34:16):
not to, or you may overindulge,go beyond your one or two that
you decided that you were goingto have.
Have an exit plan.
I always say get uncomfortablewith the uncomfortable, but if
it's going to cause you to drink, then you need to go Tell your
husband, like, can we have?
Or whoever you're with, can wehave like a code word?
Or can I say if I say I'm readyto go, can we just go without
(34:38):
any questions asked?
So I think that those thingsare very beneficial in prepping
yourself and knowing, like, howyou want to respond.
Now, if it's a situation thatyou don't know what is going to
happen, I always say justprepare for anything.
So even if you think theremight not be alcohol there, just
(34:59):
be prepared that maybe there is.
I also tell people bring drinks, bring fun things that you want
to drink that are alcohol free,so that you don't feel left out
and so you have what is safefor you to drink.
And people don't always thinkabout us non-drinkers, so
sometimes we're just left withwater and soda and I don't like
(35:21):
soda and I drink water all day,so it's nice to have something
fun.
And then if you have a familymember who drinks and you're
having anxiety about it, youknow you're going to have to be
around them.
You can either have a hardconversation with them ahead of
time and just say this is whatsweat usually happens.
It makes me very uncomfortable,I'm worried.
(35:42):
I guess it depends on what yourrelationship is like.
It depends.
It's so hard because there's somany factors right in that
situation, but the main thing isjust to lovingly set boundaries
and then know like, if thishappens, if they get to this
point of intoxication, we'releaving, and you don't have to
(36:02):
make it a mean enter it, grandexit.
You can just be like, oh yeah,I'm really tired, we're going to
take off, or you know, justthat's another thing is someone
who loves someone who'sstruggling with alcohol, just
knowing that you also have toprotect yourself and have those
boundaries.
And those boundaries are notthere to harm the other person.
(36:24):
They're not against the otherperson.
Those are just to keep you safeand essentially that could end
up helping that person too,because they may start to think,
well, why don't they ever wannabe around me, or why do they
always leave early?
Or that can get themquestioning what they're doing
without you even really sayinganything about it.
(36:47):
But there's so many differentsituations and scenarios in that
, as you know.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yes, I do work with some clients who thank God for
Uber, right, Because nowadaysI'm driving home.
Right now an invite Will you gohome with me?
And if that person refuses,there's Uber.
So, just on the practical sideof things as well, keeping them
safe and making sure thatthey're not driving home.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Yeah, that's absolutely true.
I didn't even think about thatas having a spouse, but yes, for
sure, that makes it even harderwhen you can't just get away,
because I mean you can, buteventually you know they're
going to be coming home or youknow they need to get themselves
where they need to go.
So yeah, if you want to leavewhich is a great idea if you
(37:37):
don't want to be around thatanymore, I think that's
fantastic.
Just like go home, but thenjust setting them up so that
they have either an Uber orsomeone else that's responsible,
that's not drinking, that canbring them home, but yeah, for
sure.
And then the other thing islike I've had to tell wives
before too that you know if yourhusband is not, if he's
(38:01):
drinking and he's just like notleaving you alone or he's like
trying to pick fights that'susually a lot of it like trying
to pick fights and just sayingyou know, if you're going to do
this, then I need to protectmyself or my children or
whatever, and you either need toleave or if you can go to your
room safely without him beingthere.
(38:22):
That's a dangerous situation.
Always, always, always leave.
But a lot of times they justend up passing out somewhere.
It's so hard, so so hard, whenyou love somebody because you
can only do what you can do foryourself and you can't make them
change.
And that's the real heartbreakthat I think a lot of people
like me or you know because I'mI know my family looked at me
(38:44):
and they're like what can we do?
We can't get her to stop.
We just love her and you justcan't.
I think that the key is likesetting boundaries, sticking to
those boundaries but loving themstill, you know, letting them
know that you love them and youwant them free.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
And recognizing when the person who's struggling with
the addiction they have themost.
They have PhDs in manipulation,oh yes.
And recognizing when there'smanipulation happening and to be
able to maintain the boundary.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
So, christy, this is amazing.
It's just so in time for theholidays.
I know that whoever islistening will find some nugget
of wisdom to take with themthrough the holidays and to
share with others as well.
Where can people find you?
Speaker 1 (39:35):
And so people can find me on my website at
thecatholicsobrietycoachcom.
As you mentioned before, I havea podcast, the Catholic
sobriety podcast.
On there I have lots of tipsand information.
I do have some like holidayepisodes on there.
I'll probably be getting somemore up in the coming weeks.
Also, I do have a free resourceIf anybody's interested.
(39:58):
It's a five day free sacredsobriety kickstart.
I do have some of those tools Italked about the pros and cons
list, the triggers and urgeslist, with short videos every
day and some other tools andresources there as well, and if
you go to my website, a pop-upfor that comes up.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Wonderful, thank you.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
I really enjoyed thisconversation.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Thank you, Karen.
I enjoyed it too.
It's always a pleasure talkingto you.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Well, forgivers, until next time.
Much love be with you as youcontemplate what you learned
today.
If this podcast is making adifference in your life, please
hit subscribe below and considerwriting a review.
Share the link with a friend,take a screenshot and share on
your social media.
Connect with me as yourforgiveness guide.
I will hold space for you asyou work through your pain and
(40:58):
rewrite your story.
Sign up for my 5 Days toForgiveness self-guided mini
audio retreat at wwwdrkarencom.
Check out my website for howand remember, friends,
forgiveness is for you.
Hi everyone, I'm starting off this podcast a
little bit different.
First of all, I just want tothank all of you for listening,
for being with me, for sharingthis podcast with others.
Today is the two-yearanniversary of the start of my
podcast, and I could not do thiswithout you.
Well, I guess I could just talkto myself, but it's so much
(00:24):
more fun with friends, am Iright?
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Thank you for all of yourencouraging words, your comments
, your support and just beinghere and pushing play.
I thank you so much.
Now, today's episode is a littlebit different.
Also, this is an interview thatI did with Dr Karen Silva on
(00:48):
her podcast Forgiveness Is Foryou Overcoming Trauma Through
Forgiveness.
Dr Karen interviewed me.
We talked about my own journeyof forgiveness, and then we talk
about the holidays and how thepresence of alcohol can bring
anxiety, both for those whodrink and those who love people
(01:11):
who drink.
So you do not want to miss thisepisode.
Definitely go over and checkout Dr Karen's podcast.
Again, it's called Forgivenessis for you.
She has an amazing lineup ofguests.
She shares so much wisdom andinsight and I know that you will
(01:31):
be blessed by listening to her.
So stick around, listen to theepisode and again, thank you and
God bless bless Friends, ourguest today I'm so excited to
introduce to you.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I actually appeared on her podcast to talk about
forgiveness and today I amwelcoming Christy Walker, who is
known as the Catholic sobrietycoach.
She is a wife, a mom of three,a life and sobriety coach,
speaker and host of the CatholicSobriety Podcast.
Having lived an alcohol-freelife for over 27 years, she
(02:16):
specializes in helping otherCatholic women experience
alcohol freedom so they too canenjoy living fully present,
fully alive and fully claimingtheir true identity in Christ.
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Christy.
Hi, karen, thank you so muchfor having me today.
It's a pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yes, I'm so excited.
The first thing I always askguests is what's your story,
what's your big, why?
Why are you doing this work?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So my story begins with my first drink of alcohol,
I guess, and why I'm doing whatI'm doing and why I do the work
that I do.
It came down to really justwanting to be part of a group,
wanting to be liked.
I was searching for an identityand I found that when I found
(03:09):
this magical elixir, alcoholwhen I was in high school and
the thing with me is that Iactually never drank, quote,
unquote, normally I got superintoxicated the very first time
that I consumed alcohol andpretty much every time.
After that, I went through myhigh school years with a group
of friends.
(03:30):
They were, you know, a greatgroup of friends, but we just
drank and partied as much as wecould, honestly, and not during
the week, but definitely on theweekends, and we had parents
that would buy us alcohol andlet us drink in the house and
thought they were cool for doingthat, and so I had access to it
(03:51):
.
My mom didn't know about it,but you know I had access to
that and as I kept going throughthe years, it just didn't
really stop.
I kept drinking after highschool.
I was going to go to college,but I dropped out after a
semester.
I just wanted to have a job.
I just wanted to party anddrink and do all that.
(04:14):
So of course I gravitated tothose people who were doing
those things.
And then my family and I movedfrom.
I used to live in Idaho.
We moved to the PacificNorthwest.
I wasn't really sure I wantedto, but my mom knew that things
weren't going right with me,that I wasn't making the best
choices, and she I was 19 at thetime and she just really urged
(04:36):
me to please come with her andmy stepdad and my brother.
So I did and for a while Ididn't drink.
Things went really well.
But as you do when you havethis addiction, I just ended up
finding those people that drinkand I kept doing that.
Of course, after I turned 21, itdidn't get better, it got worse
(04:56):
, because then I could buy myown alcohol and it got more
dangerous because, I'm ashamedto say, but I was driving and
doing lots of things I shouldn'thave been doing.
I was like burning throughroommates, like crazy, because
people could only take me for solong.
I should say that I'm a cradleCatholic, but I had just kind of
(05:18):
.
It's not that I didn't believein God anymore, or even that I
didn't identify as Catholic,because I did, but I just didn't
really feel like God reallycared that much about me and
what I was doing and I kind offelt like maybe I had already
burnt that bridge, so to speak.
And so I just kind of wentabout my life just doing
(05:41):
whatever I wanted, whatever Ithought would bring me happiness
, bring me joy, whether that waspeople, whether that was things
, and it was definitely alcohol.
And then one night my roommateshad moved and I was getting
ready to go to my next place,that I was going to go to my
next roommate, and I had drunkmyself, passed out, blacked out,
(06:04):
whatever.
And this evening was different.
I actually woke up very scaredbecause I felt like there were
two hands around my neck chokingme.
I felt like I was being chokedand it was so I can still feel
it when I even talk about it.
And I looked up and there wasjust like this dark, looming,
(06:26):
oppressive figure over me and Iwas like, okay, this is it, like
I'm not going to make it, I'mgoing to die.
But then all of a sudden therewas like this lighter figure
that kind of came up over and,like, took that dark figure away
and said not yet.
And so I wish that I could saythat in that moment, like it
(06:47):
changed everything and I stoppeddrinking and I went back to
church and everything.
But it didn't really work likethat.
However, I can say that thatwas really a moment that was a
turning point for me, because Irealized like maybe God is
fighting for me, maybe Goddoesn't want this for me, maybe
this isn't the life that he hasdestined for me, and I didn't
(07:08):
really screw everything up.
It took me a really long timeto work through all of that mess
, but I can say that that waslike that time.
I did keep drinking.
It just really wasn't the samefor me, but I just did continue
with it.
And when I was like 23,continue with it.
And when I was like 23, I had ajob.
And then my roommate at thetime there her mom was my boss
(07:31):
and her mom was like Christy, ifyou don't stop drinking, you're
going to lose your job becauseyou're not very dependable, and
all of that.
And I loved the work that I did.
I wasn't excited to hear that.
And then my roommate also saidif you don't get cleaned up and
do something, stop drinking,you're going to have to find
another place to live and Imoved like every year for like
(07:52):
seven years I mean.
I just moved constantly.
I felt like, and I didn'treally want to do that.
So I checked myself into anoutpatient treatment.
I think I was sober for 90 days.
I wasn't really excited to bethere.
I wasn't really happy about thepeople there.
I felt not.
I just didn't feel like I waslike any of them.
I'm like I'm not that bad.
I had never gotten a DUI, never.
(08:12):
I haven't lost a home or afamily or a job or you know.
Well, I almost did.
But so I just kind of had thatmentality like I am so much
better than all these people andso I didn't take it as
seriously as I should have.
I did go through that program.
I think I got 90 days, but afterthat I was still doing
everything I normally did goingto the bars, just like glaring
(08:35):
at everybody because they weredrinking and I wasn't able to,
and all of that I starteddrinking again.
But this time it really reallywasn't like it was before, where
I would feel a lot of likeguilt about it.
And it finally got to the pointwhere I'm like, christy, if you
do not stop drinking, you aregoing to die, you are going to
(08:57):
end up homeless, you are goingto hurt someone.
You know like there's somereally terrible things that are
going to happen to you if you donot stop this right now.
And so one night I just waslike, okay, god, this is it.
Like I'm just going to drinkmyself until I pass out and I'm
going to wake up in the morningand not do it anymore.
(09:19):
And I did that, and by thegrace of God, I did that.
I did not do that alone.
And so when I told my mom aboutit later, she said well, do you
know what day that is?
Do you know your sobriety day?
Do you know what that is?
And I was like I don't know.
And she's like that's, it's.
My grandma and I had a superclose relationship and so that
(09:50):
meant a lot to me.
So that was like extraincentive, like not to screw it
up, like this has to be mysobriety date, like you cannot
mess this up.
And then my mom had a friend whohad been in Alcoholics
Anonymous for a really long timeand she came and visited and
talked to me about AlcoholicsAnonymous.
She took me to my first meeting, but it wasn't in a place where
I would regularly go, so thatwasn't a meeting I could
(10:12):
continue to go to because I wasin a different state.
But she was like, okay, now youneed to do this on your own,
you need to get yourself to yourown meeting.
And she told me how to find oneand all of that.
So I did that and I remembersitting in the car just being
like I am not going in there, Iam not going in there, but I did
(10:33):
.
I ended up walking in the doorand I ended up sharing my story
and I told them.
I'm like, quite honestly, Ididn't want to come in here.
I would not not be in hereexcept for the fact that I feel
like God just picked me up andlike brought me in here because
there was nothing in me thatwanted me to be here today and
(10:53):
everyone was really supportive Iwas the youngest that was there
at that time and at most of themeetings that I went to, but
everybody was always reallysupportive and and loving to me
and I stayed there for a coupleof years.
I attended AA, I should say fora couple of years, and then I
just as I started growing intofaith.
I just kept moving more andmore towards the Lord, and so I
(11:17):
just kind of saw it as like thisis God and I and we're going
through this Now.
I didn't really work anyprogram, so to speak.
I just stayed sober and I justgrew in faith and just matured
just as a person in general,just tried to be a good person.
And so for two and a half liketwo decades, 20 years, 25 years
(11:40):
actually I didn't even reallytell many people about my
alcoholism or that I was arecovering alcoholic.
My husband knew we met likewell, after I was sober I had
been sober for quite a while andmy mom knew and I would tell
friends and like certain people,but it wasn't something that I
(12:00):
really talked about.
In AA they really kind of drillit into you like you need to
give back to others what was sofreely given to you.
So I had kind of played aroundwith the idea of maybe becoming
an alcohol counselor, becoming apsychologist, like all of these
different things, but none ofthem, nothing just really felt
right for me.
(12:20):
And so I had a digitalmarketing business that I had
built up and I was looking tomaybe build that up even more.
So I contacted a Catholicbusiness coach and I was working
with her and through that I waslike I really think that God is
calling me to coaching and Ihad felt him kind of calling me
(12:41):
out of my secular digitalmarketing business.
But I didn't know what thatmeant and I tried lots of things
and nothing was it.
And so when I said that to her,she's like great, who are you
going to coach?
And I was like I don't know.
So she's like well, take thatto the Lord, pray with him,
invite the Holy Spirit in andask.
And so I was like no-transcript.
(13:31):
And my mom brought me a coin andanybody who's in AA or knows
much about it knows that thereare these coins that they give
you or medallions that representthe year of sobriety that you
have just to commemorate it.
I hadn't gotten one of thesesince I was two years sober.
So I was like oh, that's nice,you know, I thought that was
(13:51):
just a nice gesture.
She and my husband alwaysremember my sobriety date but I
didn't really think much aboutit.
But in that moment God was likeno, this isn't just for you
anymore.
Like I've equipped you, I'mcalling you and now you need to
help others.
So I told my business coach I'mlike, well, I guess God wants
me to help women in recoverylike me, and so that's where it
(14:15):
started.
And I thought I was just goingto work with women in recovery
doing life coaching, because youknow, when we stop drinking,
everything doesn't magically getbetter.
Like there's a lot of otherwork that needs to be done.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yes, and so yeah yeah .
Speaker 1 (14:30):
And so I was like, well, I'll work with women with
like a year or more sober, soyou know, to do more life
coaching stuff and and I haveand I did.
But then God kept showing methese women who wouldn't
necessarily ever go to a 12 stepprogram.
They're not quote unquoteaddicts, but they are definitely
(14:52):
bothered by the amount ofalcohol they are drinking and
how often they are drinking andthey are feeling extremely out
of control.
And these women, most of them,on the outside they look like
they have it all together, likethey're doing the mom stuff, the
wife stuff, the church stuff,business stuff, but inside
(15:13):
they're just like feeling somuch guilt and shame around how
much they're drinking or thefact that it's increasing so
much, and many of them havebackgrounds of like family
members that drink and they'relike I don't want to get there.
So those women didn't reallyhave anyone to turn to or talk
to or figure out like how toeven find out what level of
(15:37):
sobriety would be good for them.
And so that's where the Lordagain was like you're going to
stand in the gap and you'regoing to be there.
And that was a hard mind shiftfor me because I've always been
pretty black and white.
That's where the Lord again waslike you're going to stand in
the gap and you're going to bethere.
And that was a hard mind shiftfor me because I've always been
pretty black and white, likeeither you can drink or you
(15:57):
can't drink.
Like my husband can drink.
He can have one or two and he'sgood, like that's it.
And I don't understand that.
My brain is like what, how canyou do that?
But then there's people like mewho just can't.
But there is this whole grayarea of people who just kind of
moderate and but can struggle.
But once they find what worksfor them, then they can take it
or leave it with peace.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, so you get them to that place where they have a
relationship with alcohol.
That's a healthy relationship,right?
Yes, exactly yes.
As I was listening to yourstory, what came up for me was
your experience with the spirit.
You had the dark spirit andthen you had the spirit of light
(16:37):
.
Where do you think that camefrom?
You said you were raisedCatholic, but you weren't really
practicing your Catholicism.
And yet, did you ever questionwhy, then, and why this
particular image, other than youknew that you had work to do
later?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I think, well recognizing.
Now that I've kind of studiedspiritual gifts and I've gone
through understanding what mineare and what my strengths are, I
definitely know that I have a,that discernment of spirits is
one of my gifts.
I don't see in the spirit orany, you know, like anything
(17:17):
super exciting that other peopledo, but I definitely have a
sense of good and evil, dark andlight when it comes to certain
things and situations, and Idon't know if that was something
that God gifted me with foreveror if that was something that
he gifted me in that moment.
But I feel like that has reallyhelped me from that point on to
(17:44):
see like this is good, this isnot, this is of me, you know,
recognizing the counterfeitversions, because that's what
alcohol is Because the more Iunderstand the Holy Spirit and
what we experience with thatindwelling of the spirit, I mean
sometimes you see people thathave taken on the spirit and
(18:06):
they might act in ways that makethem look like they're drunk
and that is like the authentic,you know intoxication of the
spirit.
And what I was searching for allthose years was that
intoxication of the Holy Spirit,but instead I was settling for
this counterfeit version ofalcohol which so many of us do
(18:30):
so, because I had the grace ofbaptism from the time I was a
baby.
I just feel like that was likethis protection that I had and,
looking back, I was so protectedbecause, yes, there were awful
things that happened to me.
Yes, there were awful thingsthat I did, but it could have
been so much worse.
And I think in that moment,maybe that vision was also
(18:55):
showing me like I've been hereall along protecting you from
this darkness, and I think thathelps me help others, because
that's something that we allstruggle against the world and
those forces that are trying tomake us forget God's goodness
and love and they offer us thesecounterfeit versions of things
(19:19):
that seem like they'll fill usup but they just leave us empty
and reaching for more and more.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
So part of the 12 steps is to make a list of
people you harmed, includingyourself, when you worked
through that process of doingthat life inventory under the
influence and you wrote downthose names.
You had to, at some point, makeamends.
(19:48):
What was that process like foryou?
Some point, make amends.
What?
Speaker 1 (19:52):
was that process like for you?
It's hard because some peopleit's not safe to make amends
with and you know this from thework that you do and I know that
you talked about this on mypodcast, but I know you talked a
lot about this with yourclients as well but sometimes
it's not safe to make amendswith people, and so I learned
(20:13):
that I mean, I did make amendswith people like face to face,
like my mom and friends, somepeople.
It took years before I was ableto make amends with them, but I
did.
Actually, I had this one friend.
She was one of my roommates.
I was the maddest at herbecause she had kicked me out.
She made me tell my mom whatwas going on and all of these
things, and we had like a lot ofcommon friends forever.
(20:36):
If anyone said her name, likemy eye would twitch and I would
be like she's dead to me, like Idon't even.
And this was years and years andyears sober.
But one day I saw her onFacebook and it was like
Facebook was very new and Godjust like softened my heart for
her and I just wrote her thismessage like apologizing,
(21:00):
telling her all the things thatI was wrong for thanking her for
what she did and letting herknow how well my life was going
and how she contributed to that.
And she ended up reaching outand we made amends, our kids
played together.
We're still friends.
It was just like this beautifulthing.
But it was like God had tochange and soften my heart.
(21:24):
I swear it was just like fromone minute to the next, like I
can't stand her to, like, no, Ilove her.
He almost gave me his heart forher and showed me like what she
did for me and how that helpedme as well.
You know, it's very unexpectedwhen you can make amends Now
with my dad.
It took me a long time too, andhe had passed away and I was
(21:45):
like, how do you make amends orhow do you forgive and and all
of that.
But I learned that I could dothat without having to have him
in front of me to do that.
I mean, obviously he, you know,by the Lord's grace, hopefully
he can hear me.
But yeah, I think I think, justknowing you make amends to
(22:06):
those people and it says it, youknow, wherever possible except
when to do so would injure themor others, and that includes
yourself and just do that andthen when you can't do that,
then you make those amends.
You know, with the Lord andwith yourself I will say that I
did not make amends.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
When you have a span of time where you're harming
your body like you're violatingyour own body, which is a sin,
and then you have to face that.
(22:43):
What was that like for you, andhow long did it take?
Speaker 1 (22:47):
oh gosh, Karen, that took years.
Honestly, it took years andyears and years.
And because I feel like, youknow, the enemy was just
constantly like putting it in myface like, well, you did this
and you did that.
I mean, even when I was marriedand with kids and everything
and part of the church, I justfelt like he was still just like
at me.
(23:08):
But it wasn't until my husbandwent through RCIA and I made,
I'm sure, when I walked in itwas like during a reconciliation
service too, albeit and Iwalked in with like this paper
list of like three pages of likeeverything I'd ever done
written down because I confessed, confess, confess, confess.
(23:31):
And I never felt forgiven orabsolution or anything, even
though I had gotten it.
And one time this lady in myBible study said, not to be rude
, but are you saying that God isnot powerful enough to forgive
you?
Because you're saying thatyou're not forgiven, that you
don't feel forgiven, but yet youkeep asking him and he keeps
(23:53):
telling you that you're absolved.
So you know, maybe think aboutthat.
So I did, and that's when Iwent in with like my big list
and made a really super good andthorough reconciliation and I
feel like in that moment I couldfinally just let go and let God
(24:14):
love me and pour his mercy intome, and I think that that's the
first time that I was able tostart to forgive myself.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yes, and it's interesting that you walked that
journey with your husband andyou learned more right.
It's the right of initiation forpeople who are coming into the
church, and so they're learningthe foundation of what
Catholicism teaches abouteverything, and so you have
accountability there, which isbeautiful.
(24:46):
And I just want to clarify forour listeners that when we go to
the sacrament of reconciliationand that priest absolves us
from our sin, it doesn't meanwe're going to feel like that
we're forgiven.
We may not feel better at all.
We may maybe actually we mayfeel worse leaving, but it
(25:11):
doesn't mean that the words thatthe priest spoke over us were a
lie.
We can believe those because heis in persona Christi, he is
the representative of Christ,and the words that he speaks
were given to him by Christ.
When he said words that hespeaks were given to him by
(25:35):
Christ when he said whatever youbind on earth will be bound on
earth, whatever you lose will beloosed, and so we believe that.
But it doesn't mean we're goingto feel any different, and I
think people are so focused ontheir emotions that they forget
truth?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah, oh, absolutely, absolutely, and I think you're
right.
I think that's what I wassearching for, like this lifting
of, like all this dark cloud,or like feeling not feeling the
shame or never thinking about itagain.
But one of the things that theLord did give me is like, well,
when that thought comes up,first of all recognize that's
(26:11):
not of me, that's not from me,that you have that thought, and
second of all, just call in theblessed mother.
She will get rid of the enemy.
So I would just say a Hail Maryuntil it like went away.
So that could be three, thatcould be 10.
I don't know it.
Just be like just keep sayingthe Hail Mary until it goes away
(26:35):
and then just thank her andknow that she got that away and
I think that that helped me.
So, whatever helps you in thatmoment, just calling upon the
intercession of you know saints,or asking Jesus to come in and
just get rid of you know thedevil, calling upon our blessed
mother, can be so, so helpful.
(26:57):
Because and I work on this alot with my clients like what is
the way that God speaks to you?
What is the way the enemyspeaks to you?
Or you speak to yourself.
You know those are completelythey can be completely different
things.
So we need to, like, recognizewhat those thoughts are and if
they're disparaging, shaming,you know, all of those things,
(27:18):
those are not from God.
God is going to be encouraging,loving, convicting, merciful in
what he says, and so I think Ihad to really learn that, and
now I can share that with others.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Others, yes, and one of the things that I recommend
is to really become a student ofyour interior dialogue and to
recognize what happens beforeI'm thinking these things.
Where am I?
What's happening in my body?
Who's around me?
So that when those patternsstart emerging, I can go oh,
(27:55):
that's an attack.
And we believe as Christiansthat we live in a material world
, but we also have asupernatural world and they
intersect.
And when we are makingdecisions here in our material
world, some of those decisionscould be decisions that were
made because a thought wasplanted in our mind by the enemy
(28:18):
.
And drinking becominginebriated to a point where we
lose control of our body, thatcould be one of those decisions
that we make that was planted inour minds by the enemy.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Absolutely, because it darkens our will and our
intellect, which is what theenemy wants.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yes, exactly One of the things that I'd like you to
explore with our listeners isthe idea of when the holidays
are approaching and people startthinking, oh my gosh, you know
we're not going to be working,there's going to be a lot of
partying and there's going to bea lot of alcohol, and you have
(28:58):
anxiety on the part of theperson who drinks, and then you
also have anxiety on the peoplearound that person in their life
.
I just want to say as an asidehere that I grew up with a
number of alcoholics in.
I don't like calling peoplealcoholics actually, because
it's taking a term and definingtheir entire being by that word,
(29:21):
right?
So I like to say I lived with alot of people who struggled
with alcohol in my familythrough through many years, like
generations, and so for me itwas always, even as a child, my
anxiety would start building upbefore the holidays.
What do you want to say to theperson who drinks, and then also
(29:43):
the family, who areanticipating?
You know that they'reanticipating that there's going
to be drama.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, those are two different, two very different
things.
The first one the person whodrinks but is worried about how
much they're going to drink, orhas goals not to drink as much
or maybe even not at all, justto see what the holidays could
be like without it.
You know, we can think of that.
But then there's all of theselike well, I can't do it, I
(30:11):
don't have enough willpower.
No-transcript, you can totallydo it and God will help you do
it, but you have to have a planand you have to have a protocol.
And that's what I work on withmy clients a lot this time of
year as we head into theholidays.
(30:32):
Like, what events do you have?
So if it's an event that younormally go to, you kind of know
how things go.
Is there usually alcohol on thetable?
Are there?
Is there somebody there whokind of pushes alcohol, like
they're constantly like fillingup your glass or making sure you
have a drink.
Are there just situations whereyou feel like you sneak away to
(30:57):
have more because you don'twant people to see you?
Do you drink before you go tothe event so that they don't
know how much you're drinking?
Or do you drink okay at theevent.
But then you come home and youover consume because you just
need to keep going.
So there's a lot of thosethings that need to be thought
about.
So what I usually have people dois first of all come up with a
(31:20):
pros and cons list.
What does alcohol give you?
What does it take away?
Alcohol definitely gives yousomething because you drink it.
So just be very honest andwrite all that down On the other
side.
What does it take away?
Like, maybe you're not feelingas great in the morning, maybe
your gut health is off, maybeyou disappoint yourself or
others.
Just make those two lists andwhat that does is it just gives
(31:46):
you more clarity around yourdrinking, because a lot of times
we don't want to look at it.
It's kind of like my kids'bedroom If it's a mess and I ask
them to like clean it up,they'll just shove it all.
Or when they were little, theywould shove it all in the closet
.
We don't see it, then it's notthere, you know, and then you
add to it, and add to it, andadd to it.
Pretty soon it's like spillingout over.
(32:07):
The same can be true with anysort of disordered attachment or
anything right we don't want tolook at it because we're afraid
if we look at it we're going tohave to clean it up or that it
will make us feel bad.
But if we can look at it, justpull it out and look at it
without any shame or judgment.
Just look at it like you're ascientist just examining the
(32:29):
evidence.
Here's the pros, here's thecons.
Then that will help you haveclarity about your decision and
why you want to reduce oreliminate your alcohol through
the holidays.
The other thing is to know yourtriggers, cues, urges, and that
(32:49):
can definitely be around theholidays, right?
Certain people can make us wantto consume more alcohol than we
normally do.
Certain situations can make uswant to do that.
So just knowing that,especially with events that you
always have, and just having aplan If this happens, then this,
this is what I will do, this iswhat I will not do and just
(33:12):
having that written out andplanned for can be so beneficial
.
And then the other thing thatis essential is to have a
support person, even if that'sonly one person, and it may not
be your spouse, because ourspouses want to see us happy.
And so if you tell your spouseI do not want to drink tonight
(33:34):
and then later in the eveningyou come to him and you're like,
oh my gosh, I really, really,really, really want to drink.
He's going to be like, okay,because he loves you and he
wants you to be happy, and it'snot really fair for you to do
that because you know he's goingto say yes, that he wants you
to have it.
So try to have anotheraccountability person, even if
(33:55):
they're not at the event,somebody that you can text or
call or something while you'rethere, like a really good friend
or somebody else that you knowloves you and will give you that
tough love Like this is whatyou need to do.
The other thing is have an exitplan.
So if you are at an event,you're feeling very
uncomfortable.
You're feeling like you maydecide to drink when you decided
(34:16):
not to, or you may overindulge,go beyond your one or two that
you decided that you were goingto have.
Have an exit plan.
I always say get uncomfortablewith the uncomfortable, but if
it's going to cause you to drink, then you need to go Tell your
husband, like, can we have?
Or whoever you're with, can wehave like a code word?
Or can I say if I say I'm readyto go, can we just go without
(34:38):
any questions asked?
So I think that those thingsare very beneficial in prepping
yourself and knowing, like, howyou want to respond.
Now, if it's a situation thatyou don't know what is going to
happen, I always say justprepare for anything.
So even if you think theremight not be alcohol there, just
(34:59):
be prepared that maybe there is.
I also tell people bring drinks, bring fun things that you want
to drink that are alcohol free,so that you don't feel left out
and so you have what is safefor you to drink.
And people don't always thinkabout us non-drinkers, so
sometimes we're just left withwater and soda and I don't like
(35:21):
soda and I drink water all day,so it's nice to have something
fun.
And then if you have a familymember who drinks and you're
having anxiety about it, youknow you're going to have to be
around them.
You can either have a hardconversation with them ahead of
time and just say this is whatsweat usually happens.
It makes me very uncomfortable,I'm worried.
(35:42):
I guess it depends on what yourrelationship is like.
It depends.
It's so hard because there's somany factors right in that
situation, but the main thing isjust to lovingly set boundaries
and then know like, if thishappens, if they get to this
point of intoxication, we'releaving, and you don't have to
(36:02):
make it a mean enter it, grandexit.
You can just be like, oh yeah,I'm really tired, we're going to
take off, or you know, justthat's another thing is someone
who loves someone who'sstruggling with alcohol, just
knowing that you also have toprotect yourself and have those
boundaries.
And those boundaries are notthere to harm the other person.
(36:24):
They're not against the otherperson.
Those are just to keep you safeand essentially that could end
up helping that person too,because they may start to think,
well, why don't they ever wannabe around me, or why do they
always leave early?
Or that can get themquestioning what they're doing
without you even really sayinganything about it.
(36:47):
But there's so many differentsituations and scenarios in that
, as you know.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yes, I do work with some clients who thank God for
Uber, right, Because nowadaysI'm driving home.
Right now an invite Will you gohome with me?
And if that person refuses,there's Uber.
So, just on the practical sideof things as well, keeping them
safe and making sure thatthey're not driving home.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Yeah, that's absolutely true.
I didn't even think about thatas having a spouse, but yes, for
sure, that makes it even harderwhen you can't just get away,
because I mean you can, buteventually you know they're
going to be coming home or youknow they need to get themselves
where they need to go.
So yeah, if you want to leavewhich is a great idea if you
(37:37):
don't want to be around thatanymore, I think that's
fantastic.
Just like go home, but thenjust setting them up so that
they have either an Uber orsomeone else that's responsible,
that's not drinking, that canbring them home, but yeah, for
sure.
And then the other thing islike I've had to tell wives
before too that you know if yourhusband is not, if he's
(38:01):
drinking and he's just like notleaving you alone or he's like
trying to pick fights that'susually a lot of it like trying
to pick fights and just sayingyou know, if you're going to do
this, then I need to protectmyself or my children or
whatever, and you either need toleave or if you can go to your
room safely without him beingthere.
(38:22):
That's a dangerous situation.
Always, always, always leave.
But a lot of times they justend up passing out somewhere.
It's so hard, so so hard, whenyou love somebody because you
can only do what you can do foryourself and you can't make them
change.
And that's the real heartbreakthat I think a lot of people
like me or you know because I'mI know my family looked at me
(38:44):
and they're like what can we do?
We can't get her to stop.
We just love her and you justcan't.
I think that the key is likesetting boundaries, sticking to
those boundaries but loving themstill, you know, letting them
know that you love them and youwant them free.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
And recognizing when the person who's struggling with
the addiction they have themost.
They have PhDs in manipulation,oh yes.
And recognizing when there'smanipulation happening and to be
able to maintain the boundary.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
So, christy, this is amazing.
It's just so in time for theholidays.
I know that whoever islistening will find some nugget
of wisdom to take with themthrough the holidays and to
share with others as well.
Where can people find you?
Speaker 1 (39:35):
And so people can find me on my website at
thecatholicsobrietycoachcom.
As you mentioned before, I havea podcast, the Catholic
sobriety podcast.
On there I have lots of tipsand information.
I do have some like holidayepisodes on there.
I'll probably be getting somemore up in the coming weeks.
Also, I do have a free resourceIf anybody's interested.
(39:58):
It's a five day free sacredsobriety kickstart.
I do have some of those tools Italked about the pros and cons
list, the triggers and urgeslist, with short videos every
day and some other tools andresources there as well, and if
you go to my website, a pop-upfor that comes up.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Wonderful, thank you.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
I really enjoyed thisconversation.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Thank you, Karen.
I enjoyed it too.
It's always a pleasure talkingto you.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Well, forgivers, until next time.
Much love be with you as youcontemplate what you learned
today.
If this podcast is making adifference in your life, please
hit subscribe below and considerwriting a review.
Share the link with a friend,take a screenshot and share on
your social media.
Connect with me as yourforgiveness guide.
I will hold space for you asyou work through your pain and
(40:58):
rewrite your story.
Sign up for my 5 Days toForgiveness self-guided mini
audio retreat at wwwdrkarencom.
Check out my website for howand remember, friends,
forgiveness is for you.
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