November 14, 2024 • 51 mins
What happens when you decide to lay down the wine glass for good, even coming from a culture where it's practically a staple? Join me for a compelling journey with Brooke Joiner, co-founder and CEO of Catholic Owned, as she shares her path to sobriety, inspired by her faith and the Blessed Mother. We explore how cultural expectations, particularly from her husband’s wine-making family, were gracefully navigated with a focus on spiritual growth and personal well-being. Brooke's story is a testament to how faith can profoundly transform lifestyle choices.
The pressures and societal norms surrounding drinking can be daunting, especially for Catholic women seeking to align their lives with spiritual beliefs. As we reflect on Marian consecration and its influence on our choices, we confront cultural stereotypes head-on, advocating for a life that prioritizes faith over fleeting social comforts. Let's unravel the complexities of facing social gatherings without alcohol and find strength in the solidarity of shared spiritual convictions.
Sobriety isn't merely about abstention; it's about balance and aligning with one's values. This episode encourages honest self-examination, urging listeners to create space for divine presence, especially during reflective times like Advent. Let’s embark on this journey together, finding peace and joy in faith and purposeful living.
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https://catholicowned.com/landing_page
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Catholic Sobriety Podcast, the
go-to resource for women seekingto have a deeper understanding
of the role alcohol plays intheir lives, Women who are
looking to drink less or not atall for any reason.
I am your host, Christi Walker.
I'm a wife, mom and ajoy-filled Catholic, and I am
(00:22):
the Catholic Sobriety Coach, andI am so glad you're here.
If you've listened to mypodcast for any length of time,
you know that I'm fond of sayingthat you don't have to have a
drinking problem to realize thatdrinking is becoming a problem
(00:42):
for you, and that is what mynext guest and I are going to be
talking about.
Slave of Jesus in Mary.
Brooke Joyner is a convert tothe Catholic faith and wife to
Matteo Onori, mother of fourwonderful children.
She's also the co-founder andCEO of Catholic Owned, a company
(01:07):
dedicated to supportingCatholic business owners and
building the new Catholiceconomy.
Welcome to the podcast, Brooke.
I'm so happy to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Thank you, christy, it's a pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
So, brooke, why don't you just go ahead and share
about your personal journey andwhat initially inspired you to
reduce, or actually eliminatealcohol from your life?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, I think kind of similar to other people normal
drinking, I guess in college andas an adult, you know, with
dinner or with friends, it'sjust like casual, normal
drinking.
My husband is from Italy, so welived there for four years and
his family makes wine, so wedrank wine in Italy, so that was
(02:02):
fine.
We moved to South Florida in2019.
And down here, like, it'salways summer, so people are
kind of like always havingbarbecues, always drinking.
So our jobs were reallystressful.
We were running a companytogether, not our company,
another company.
That was really stressful.
For those few years wedefinitely would have a beer or
(02:25):
whatever because, like, we werestressed out.
You know, it was like a morethan full time situation.
It was hard as time went on, aswe kind of grew in devotion to
our Blessed Mother.
That's kind of an importantpart of the story.
We wanted to drink less.
We also felt called to startanother business, to move away
(02:47):
from the industry we were in.
So we said, okay, how can we dothat?
You know, the job that we haveis like all-consuming.
We both would do it all thetime.
How can we do?
And we just looked at ourschedule and we realized, like
after dinner, after the kids arein bed there's a couple hours,
(03:10):
and so we said, okay, well, howare we going to use the time?
And I think we have to becompletely sober so we're not
tired, and so that's kind of howit came to not want to drink
anymore.
We wanted to use the time forother things.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, that's so great , but how did that go over with
your husband's family being thatthey make wine and everything?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, I mean, they only make it for themselves.
So, like they make olive oil,they have gardens, so it's like
a self-sustaining kind of thing.
Have gardens, so it's like aself-sustaining kind of thing,
but we don't see them that much.
And you know, I remember when Iwas living in Italy and I was
pregnant with my children, itwas a little controversial that
I didn't drink wine duringpregnancy.
(03:57):
So yeah, in their region it'svery much like oh're going to
have like a half a glass withyour meal and I'm like I'm okay,
you know, without.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
But other than those occasions, because we just we
don't see them all that much.
And you know, I like reallyvisited last year and I think my
husband had like a glass ofwine with them or whatever.
Like it's totally fine with ameal or something.
Oh, so really no trouble.
I would say, you know, they,they don't really care about yes
(04:35):
, good.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
So, brooke, how did your faith because you were, you
alluded to it in the beginning,but how did your faith play a
role in your decision to?
You know, eliminate alcohol.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, and so kind of similar to wanting more time to
do other things that for us weremore important and we saw as a
way to move forward in life.
We also want to spend some time, you know, like grateful and
(05:11):
again, like if you startcreating the rosary, like you
don't want to wait until the endof the day, first of all, but
if you do and you have wine withdinner, like it's over, you're
going to miss your prayers, andthen that feels terrible because
it's like I want to do thisevery day and so it's like you
know just little things likethat that you're.
(05:34):
Anytime you drink any, I meanin my experience I don't want to
speak for others, but for me,anytime I would drink alcohol, I
felt like I was losing time andI mean mean wasting time and
and I don't really believe thatI have unlimited time- you know,
and so I have to do what Godasked me to do wrong here.
(05:58):
And so, just as we grew, withHeather Rosemary Moore, we
started practicing the fight.
For Saturday we did our Marianconsecration and you know, it's
kind of all these things goingto happen concurrently over a
period of time.
(06:27):
Consecration to the erectedheart is you give everything
that you are to our blessedmother for her to do with
whatever she wants, and likethat includes all the merits of
all of your good works, past,present and future, which a lot
of people have a hard time, butalso like your body, your mind,
your time, everything, and so,like sort of a good practice is,
(06:49):
whatever you do for yourself,like you should do it as if you
were doing it for our blessedmother.
And it's like, well, I kind ofdon't think our blessed mother
was drinking.
I don't see it.
I don't think we havedocumentation about that.
So I'm not going to pretendthat's a dogma or something, but
I found that very hard tobelieve and so it was like, if
(07:11):
I'm consecrating and givingevery other part of my life, who
am I to be damaging my bodywith toxins and wasting time and
also wasting the good worksthat I could be doing at that
time.
So that is kind of thespiritual side, just maybe a
(07:32):
little bit harsh and maybe notthe right explanation for every
person, but that was definitelywhere I went with that.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, I think that's a great example of how alcohol
was causing chaos in your life.
It was becoming a problem.
You weren't able to do thethings that you wanted to do or
be the person that you wanted tobe, and so you found that first
reducing and then ultimatelyeliminating alcohol enabled you
(08:03):
and your husband to start thisbusiness that you had on your
heart, that you felt like Godwas calling you to, and then
just go more deeply into yourfaith, do the Marian
consecration and all of that,and I know that you and I kind
of talked about it when we weremessaging back and forth.
But you know, as Catholics,people like, expect us to drink.
(08:24):
They're like Catholics arealcoholics, Like you worship
Mary and you're alcoholics Like.
Those are the two things thatI've always heard and I'm like,
OK, no and no.
But you know, those are things,unfortunately, that people
think about us or like to sayabout us as Catholics.
And you know I'm not sayingthat Catholics don't like to
(08:46):
drink, we do.
It's like a cultural part of it.
Obviously, the Eucharist iswine turned into the body, blood
, soul and divinity of Jesus atthe time of consecration.
I think there's just this stigmaaround not drinking if you're a
Catholic and then if you're aCatholic woman, I just kind of
(09:07):
feel like it's up-leveled alittle bit.
For whatever reason, in socialcircles and when we go to events
, there's a lot of alcoholpresent.
It's not that people areover-consuming like crazy, but
it's definitely always there.
So what?
(09:28):
As you've gone along and grownin your faith and you know you
said you're a convert did youhave that perception of
Catholics first of all beforeyou became a Catholic?
And then, second of all, whathave you encountered, if
anything, either socially orotherwise, in regards to the
(09:49):
Catholic faith, in your decisionnot to drink?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, I didn't necessarily have any
preconceived notions aboutalcohol for Catholics Like other
than just the stereotypical,like certain cultures that are
historically catholic I don'twant to bash anybody so I'm not
gonna say it, but like that theywould drink a lot or other
things like that.
But it wasn't really even on myradar.
(10:15):
You know, I knew that like Icould drink but like not to
access, so I knew that like thatthat was technically sinful,
right.
So in terms of what I'veencountered, you know, it's a
very interesting conversation tohave with people because there
is, you know, there are peoplewho make the argument like that
(10:37):
feasting and fasting, likethere's a place for both of
those and, for example, like ifyou don't feast properly, like
it's like somehow they've triedto make an argument that that is
diminishing the celebration orsomething which I kind of find
that absurd.
But I haven't been convinced byany argument so far, and maybe
(11:02):
I just haven't spoken with theright person who could construct
that, but I was not convincedby that.
I'm also obviously sociallydrinking and I would say and
this is super controversial butcigar smoking I kind of cluster
these two together Very sociallya thing.
(11:24):
I get it.
I know businesses that aretotally formed around that and
that's great.
There maybe are people who canindulge in that and that's great
.
I kind of view it similar toalcohol.
So there's a lot in thecatholic world.
It's like that is verymasculine and, as you said, kind
of drinking wine is like a veryfeminine thing, right, but like
(11:48):
, for me I do think it is justfundamentally neither of those
things are helping people andI'll never convince otherwise
again, unless it meets a buddywho can't.
But until that I don't thinkthat those things are helping
people be holier and if ourpurpose is to get to have it, I
(12:08):
will do anything to do that.
So if something is even likethe smallest hindrance, then
like I want to be done with thatthing.
You know the other piece, andthis is something that I
actually just yesterday went toan event and I was like getting
all ready, you know, beforeevents.
So I'm noticing even it's beena few years since I drink
(12:31):
alcohol.
I've drank any alcohol now butI'll notice occasions where I
would previously, you know,dream and notice how I'm feeling
when I can't.
So it's social anxiety.
Social anxiety is what it is.
So, getting ready for events, Itotally work at social anxiety
(12:52):
and the longer it takes me toget ready, the worse it is.
So yesterday it was a long oneand I was like by the end of it
it was like an hour and a half Itexted my husband.
I was like, yeah, I this, thisis.
I break wine when I get readyfor events.
It's like the anticipation,it's really anxiety inducing,
(13:15):
just for me personally.
And then being in thosesituations like you got to
figure out what to say.
You have to sit with thoseuncomfortable feelings and in
the case of you know that was abusiness event.
So in a networking event likeyou still have to show up and
(13:37):
represent your business or yourbrand or whatever your thing is
with those uncomfortablefeelings and that's really,
really hard and I do believethat that's why a lot of people
do drink at those events,because who wants to deal with
that like it's veryuncomfortable?
yeah but so I noticed that inmyself.
(14:00):
You know this is uncomfortable.
Previously I would sort of copewith that by drinking, but then
there's always like a littlemoment of victory after.
It's like you know, yeah, Ipushed through and it was good
and I have more respect formyself because I'm developing
(14:22):
emotional skills right andemotional intelligence by
pushing through and having todeal with the situation.
So it's an ongoing thing withthe social anxiety, but I really
think that's why a lot ofpeople will want to drink in
those events is to deal withthat and to hide that.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
That is 100% true, because I know I mean, that's
something that my clientsstruggle with all the time.
Or even just women who arethinking about, who talk to me
about maybe reducing oreliminating alcohol.
Is that well, I can be fine,like maybe I can not have it at
home or whatever, but as soon asthere's a social event, there's
(15:05):
just that, like you perfectlyexplained, I'm sure so many of
my listeners are just noddingtheir heads, like you know, like
that's the thing that keeps medrinking, or they have that
intention, like I'm not going todrink tonight or I'm going to
have one tonight.
You get into that situation.
You get super uncomfortable andjust kind of give in to that
(15:27):
urge because you don't want tobe the odd one out.
Or you are having that socialanxiety of having to talk to
people.
A lot of us who are introvertslike I always say I'm an
extroverted introvert because Ican really talk to anybody but I
prefer to be by myself I thinka lot of us are like that when
we think about going to events.
(15:49):
Once we're there and we have aplan around it, manage our minds
like this is what's going tohappen.
These feelings are going tocreep up and I can tell you,
almost 30 years later of notdrinking, it still happens to me
.
I still my brain will be likenot that I want it, not that I'm
like craving it, but my brainis still like you're the only
(16:11):
one, or people are like lookingat you, you know in a way, yes,
and it's like that's so dumbChristy, like you know this, you
teach people that, like youtalk about it all the time and,
thankfully for me, because it'sbeen so many years and I've
managed it, it's usually just asplit second type of thing.
But when, especially when you'renew and when you're just
(16:34):
starting to reduce or eliminatealcohol, you just it's
uncomfortable.
You have to just kind of sitwith the discomfort and also,
like you said, then the next dayyou feel a victory for yourself
and I can tell you that I'vehad many women come to me who
regretted their decision todrink, but I've never once had
(16:58):
anybody say I really regret mydecision not to drink last night
, like I really wish that Idrank last night.
You know what I mean.
So that is something that isalways important to keep in mind
.
You'll get through it, it'sgoing to be fine.
It's just, yes, it's going tobe uncomfortable, but with
planning you'll get through it.
(17:19):
And if it gets superuncomfortable, you can always
leave too.
So you know, I always tellpeople like, just get as
uncomfortable as you can.
But if it's to the point whereyou just can't resist like you
know you're just going to go upto the bar and get a glass of
wine that might be the time totell your husband like I'm, I'm
(17:42):
super uncomfortable, I just Ican't be here right now and
that's okay.
That is so okay to make thatdecision for you and for you
know what promises that you'vemade to yourself about doing it
Right?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Well, exactly.
And I think for me, you know,it's like I, just for me
personally like I don't feeltempted to drink alcohol,
because I'm at the point like Ifeel disgusted about the idea
and I do think that's a gracethat I was given to be able to
just be like I'm at the pointlike I feel disgusted about the
idea and I do think that's agrace that I was given to be
able to just be like I'm donewith it.
I'm walking away and I feelsorry for people who are like
getting drunk, not in a pity,but like I feel sorry for them
(18:19):
because they're not gonna behappy about it.
So I, for myself, idea ofanything drinking alcohol like I
can't.
But the social anxiety of likedealing with the social
situations, not necessarilywearing like will people care,
because I'll just get like aseltzer water with line like so
far no one has ever been like,oh, you're not drinky.
(18:39):
I've never had someone say that, even if I'm just drinking the
plastic cup of water, so thatthankfully that's never happened
.
But the social anxiety will getto me and so, if you're like me
, just go to the bathroom andhave a three minute conversation
with yourself.
I feel totally uncomfortable.
That was super awkward backthere Just stating it and then
(19:01):
it's like, okay, I'm going totry again, but really going to
those events.
I love your concept of having aplan, but for me to take answer
, brothers, like I'm there for apurpose.
I'm there to promote mybusiness because I've been given
this responsibility and there'snot another person on the
planet who's going to do thiswork for me, I have to go do it.
So it's only like that purposethat allows me to push through
(19:27):
my otherwise totally likeawkward social internal
conversation.
So, and that's just what hasworked for me.
I don't know if that'll workfor anyone else, oh, but yeah, I
think that's a great idea to do.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
You know, there's I think you just don't know until
you try different things too andjust see what works for you,
cause, like you were saying,what works for me might not work
for you and vice versa.
And that's why a lot of times,like with my coaching, I don't
tell people like you need to dothis, this, this and this,
because I don't know what'sgoing to make them even more
(20:04):
uncomfortable.
I don't know what's not reallygoing to work.
And so that's where, likesitting down, I always say
invite the Lord in and have himkind of just go through that
event whether you've been tothat specific event before or
one like it and just kind ofcome up with, like all the
(20:26):
things that could happen, whatpeople could say and Brooke, I'm
with you, people do not carewhat is in your glass, just like
I don't care if people aredrinking either, you know.
So you don't care what's intheir glass, they don't care
what's in your glass.
But our brains are just kind ofsometimes they're a little
rough on us and they're like, oh, everyone is looking but
(20:47):
they're not.
They're really, really not.
And the other thing that hadcome up too, when you were
talking, is I like to look atsobriety like chastity, right.
So like sex is a gift, themarital act is a gift between a
husband and wife.
And alcohol I heard Father MikeSchmidt say this like alcohol
(21:12):
is a gift.
So, some people, as long as weuse it in the way that is
appropriate, that is moderate,that keeps us in control, that
has us keeping control of ourwill and our intellect, that can
be done, because people willsay, well, jesus drank wine and
so like well, you know, but ourcatechism does say that if you
(21:38):
are over consuming, if you aremisusing it, you know,
drunkenness is a mortal sinbecause you are killing the body
.
And I didn't know that for along time, but it's actually in
the catechism.
And so you know, we just, if weare going to have it, we have to
treat it as just this gift thatwe have very moderately and
(22:03):
kind of like what you weresaying with your husband when he
went to Italy and had it.
You know, like that's anoccasion where he had good wine
with his family.
It didn't cause any chaos, youknow, for him or any other
problems, and that's why Ialways tell people find the
level of sobriety that works foryou, like if I have one drink
(22:26):
of alcohol it's all bets are offfor me.
You know you could probablymoderate and be fine, but you
don't necessarily like that.
It takes away from other things, like it doesn't help you be a
good steward of your time, ofyour resources, of your gifts
and your talents that God hasgiven you and I would 100% agree
(22:48):
with that.
And then for some people youknow, they can have it once a
week or twice a week or whatever, or on the weekends, and
they're completely fine.
They can live how they want tolive and be who they want to be
and who God is calling them tobe.
So I think that we have to justkind of.
I think that we have to justkind of take it like not every
(23:08):
time, not all times are good tobe drinking or overconsuming.
We shouldn't do that.
And the same is with theMarital Act.
You know, not everybody can dothat or should do that.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
We have to have moderation and respect for the
other and yeah, so I really seethe spiritual correlation
between drinking over consumingand that moderation kind of say,
(23:47):
like we should be drinking likethe feasting versus fasting
kind of thing I couldn't haveheard them say that before like
it's like the marital act and um, my response to that and I
don't, I totally don't want tocontradict you at all, no,
you're fine.
I'm sorry if this is that, butthe marital act is by nature a
(24:12):
good for the survival of thespecies and it's like the.
You know, equal purpose to theunion of the spouses is the
procreation of children.
That's the purpose of marriageright?
Marriage right.
Alcohol doesn't have any ofthose things.
So for me it's like that's whatand I mean again, maybe I'm
(24:35):
just too black and white and Iunderstand, not everyone is that
way but it's like what is thefundamental good of ever
drinking?
Because I don't.
For me personally, if I have alittle bit of alcohol my mental
capacity, even if it's reduced0.1% you are giving up a certain
level of control.
(24:55):
You are giving up the highestand best use of your gifts.
I'm not convinced that that'sever good, but for me I just
find myself thinking like Idon't see that's ever good.
But for me I just find myselfthinking like I don't see that
as ever good.
I don't.
The only good of it that I couldsee is like sometimes, when you
(25:20):
just need to get out of theroutine, like the same thing as
like a vacation, which is maybethe kind of concept of feasting,
but it's like you know,removing yourself from a
situation just for a change ofscenery, to just unplug and then
with the intention ofreplugging right back in.
That's the only sort of benefitI can see.
(25:41):
But I see other things that canachieve that same unplugging,
like go see a movie, which ofcourse obviously you want to
make sure it's not like risking,you know, being too
over-sexualized or other sins,et cetera.
But there are other things youcan do that don't steal time the
next day.
(26:01):
So it's something interestingthat I obviously have thought
about, but I just don't thinkit's ever good.
But again, I mean, I'm withpeople who do it all the time,
so I'm not judging them, butit's just, if you ask me, that's
what I think.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
No, I appreciate your perspective on that and how you
explain that and you know, Iagree at somebody that doesn't
drink.
I agree that I don't really seeany value in it.
But what about those?
What would you say to those whodo say, well, Jesus drank wine,
the apostles drank wine, likeeverybody did that, and then
(26:39):
also we use wine in, you know,the Eucharist, in the sacrament
of the Holy Eucharist.
So what would you say to peopleabout that?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
I'm not a historian but I do understand that
drinking water was like aproblem back then and the wine
was safe because of thedisinfecting qualities.
The wine was safe because ofthe disinfecting qualities, so I
do understand that.
You know, for certain centuriesdrinking water was unsafe,
(27:19):
especially in cities.
It changes into blood and theamount that you're drinking to
do what our Lord told us, ifyour parish distributes the
precious blood, first of allit's not wine anymore, it's
blood.
So second, it's a tiny littlesip.
Our parishes in Florida don'treally distribute the precious
(27:41):
blood and I'm not upset about itbecause I'm very concerned
about the particles or dropsbeing dropped.
So I'm not upset at all becauseI'm very concerned about the
particles or drops being dropped.
So I'm not upset at all.
I prefer that actually.
And then the other thing youknow, looking at like our Lord,
I mean he can do anything thathe wants.
(28:02):
So I guess, like God, beingallowed to do something doesn't
mean I would do that.
And then the apostles I meanjust because they did something
doesn't mean we should do it.
Like St Peter denied our Lordthree times, you know.
Yeah, I don't know if that'sreally good and I don't know if
(28:24):
they drank because they didn'thave water.
I don't know if they drank forlike debauchery Like I have no
idea.
I don't know if they drankbecause they didn't have water.
I don't know if they drank forlike debauchery Like I have no
idea, I don't know.
I'm not necessarily convincingargument for me.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah, that's what I'm probably saying and I totally
put you on the spot, you didamazing, thank you.
And I think you're right I'veactually heard that too about
like the water.
They didn't have watertreatment plants like we have
now, so it could be very unsafe.
And yeah, and I think thingswere different than the way that
(28:55):
they made wine, the way youknow, that it first of all
probably didn't have all thepesticides and things that ours
have in it from a healthstandpoint.
But yeah, I think it's kind oflike how it is culturally.
Culturally in certain areaslike you think of France or
Italy, where they just have theycan, it seems as though they
can moderate a little bit more,that they see it as just
(29:17):
something, an enhancement, notsomething that they use to just
get totally wasted on all thetime, although I know that that
does occur to you, it doeshappen time, although I know
that that does occur to you.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
It does happen, yeah, and I would say too, like, if
you imagine, like the wedding atcana, like, where they got the
water, where did they get thewater?
In the jar and then, and thewineskins, like, or that, they
were jars, they were the I'm sosorry I misspoke, they were the,
I don't want to say thesacramental jars.
What is the word ceremonial?
Like the jewish, theyweremonial, like the Jewish,
they were ceremonial jars, Ibelieve.
(29:51):
But where did they get thewater from?
Like, was it good water todrink?
I know they drew the water, somaybe it was a well, but if it
wasn't from a well, if it waslike from a river or something
like, it was a purification tomake it.
So they had something right,because some people will use the
Cana argument.
So they had something right,because some people will use the
Cana argument.
The second thing that's comingto mind is, even in these
(30:12):
cultures, like in France and inItaly, where this is such an
important thing, you know, thegreatest saints, like St Clair
of Assisi, for example, like,think about what they did, like
they cloistered themselves.
They renounced everything ofthe world and they cloistered.
(30:34):
They closed themselves in.
So I learned this last yearbecause we went there.
There was like literally like awrought iron window, that the
door, the priests would come andgive them communion every,
otherwise they were totallyclosed in like prisoners, like,
if you can imagine, that's whatcloistered means, but like
voluntary, not basically.
Yeah, so, like the greatestsaints like a what you know, a
(30:56):
higher level of perfection whichwe are all called to, the more
you renounce of the world like,the more quickly you amount to
higher perfection, and so thegreatest saints of our time, of
all time, actually were notdoing that.
Maybe they did it earlier inlife, but they left it behind.
So I think there's something tothat as well.
(31:17):
So, yeah, that's kind of goingdeep on that.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Well, and so many saints talk about being sober
minded, and the Bible mentionsit many, many times as well.
So I think that we just have todefinitely take that into
consideration and think about,like, what is keeping us from
God or doing his will?
And because it does, alcoholdoes darken our will and our
(31:43):
intellect, and it's just a factand it does.
So it's definitely something toconsider.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Again, like, not every one solution is right for
everybody, but yeah for sure andI do think it's important to
just be honest with yourself,like, yeah, is that really not
affecting you?
Really Not at all, zero percent.
Because being intellectuallyhonest, and that's kind of a
(32:11):
harsh thing, and only eachperson can have that
conversation, of course, and Idon't want to be judgmental
because it's kind of a harshthing to say but if you ask
yourself in full intellectualhonesty, a person cannot say
alcohol doesn't affect me at all, zero percent.
(32:32):
Because if that's true, thenwhy do you drink it?
So it either affects you or itdoesn't.
But both of those two thingscannot be true at the same time.
And so that's, for me, is likeI had to ask myself.
It's like, yeah, it does, andthat's why I want to drink it,
(32:57):
but that is also why I should it.
So, anyways, but that's like myhard core black and white,
intellectually honest to the end, you know, approach which,
again, I understand, is all foreverybody and I totally respect
people that it's not for, butthat's our, that's my story.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
So yeah, that's what we're here to learn and to be
inspired with, because I thinkso many women women in general,
but Catholic women too we, youknow we have this desire.
We know that we want to grow infaith, that we want to lead
ourselves and our spouses andour children to heaven, like we,
(33:38):
that is, like our main job,right, is just to get everybody
to heaven.
Well, our main job is toworship the Lord and love him,
and you know and all of that.
But that's what we're here todo is to lead others to him.
And if we can't shine light on,you know, those things that are
(33:58):
keeping us from him, you know,like stuffing it in the closet
you kind of alluded to that justlike not really looking at it.
Just be very honest withyourself, like you do when you
go to reconciliation, when youmake an exam and a good exam and
just make sure that you're nothiding anything from yourself or
trying to make excuses so thatit doesn't feel so bad, or like
(34:22):
I'm not as bad as her or I don'tdo it every night or my kids
never see me.
You just have to, like you said, get honest with yourself about
really how it's affecting you,your life, your spiritual life,
your physical health and justall of those things, because it
is affecting you andscientifically speaking, it
(34:43):
affects you Like all thoseneurotransmitters.
Get all hyped up.
And I just was reading a bookcalled Drink and it's by
Professor David Nutt.
And so if you want to learn, ifyou want to geek out on all the
science behind what happensafter you take a drink of
alcohol, from the time you takea drink until you've really over
(35:05):
consumed, that is an excellentbook to read and it's very eye
opening for sure.
So before we kind of close with, what advice would you give to
Catholic women who feel isolated, who are afraid that maybe
they'll?
There's like a stigma, maybepeople won't, women won't want
(35:26):
to hang out with them orsomething if they are struggling
, finding that they'restruggling with alcohol or just
realizing that it's just notserving them, it's keeping them
from what God is actually askingthem to do the same advice that
I most often get is grow inholiness, because when you grow
(35:50):
in holiness I can see all theway you can hear what God is
asking you to do.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Second is to help sort of get rid of the social
concern is just remembering ourtrue purpose, which you kind of
alluded to to know God, love Godand serve God so we can be
happy with him forever in heaven.
So remembering that and reallygetting that as your focus in
(36:17):
life, you know that helps,because then other things just
melt away Like, oh well, if youdon't want to hang out with me
because I'm trying to get toheaven, like you might be
holding me back anyway, so maybethat's better.
But like I'm not holding on tothat friend Judgment Day, I can
tell you that much.
Most people aren't like asextreme as I am of like I will
(36:39):
do anything.
Like a crazy person, I will doanything to get to heaven, no
matter the cost.
It really doesn't matter.
And so having a singularpurpose helps.
And then the growing inholiness, because you want to
build your identity around that.
A lot of times in our culturethe identity is a lot wrapped up
(37:01):
in social circles or materialgoods or career accomplishments,
those types of things.
So remembering your purpose,growing in holiness, building
identity around those things therest just kind of melted away
in my experience because youstart receiving graces.
(37:22):
I wasn't able to just walk awayfrom drinking ever again
because of my own desire.
It was a grace to say I'm donewith this, I don't want to do
this anymore.
I got better stuff to do and itwas a grace that I wasn't
chemically dependent, becauseobviously that complicates the
situation much further.
(37:42):
Yes, these are all graces.
You don't get graces by beingworried about what other people
think, just realizing those thatyou have to rely on those
graces.
And the way to get the gracesis remember your purpose, grow
in holiness, build your identityaround that, go to mass more,
pray the rosary.
The five first saturn islife-changing.
(38:03):
Married consecrationlife-changing, married
consecration life-changing.
So that's my advice is don'tworry about what other people
think.
That's excellent advice.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Two things came up for me.
One is identity.
Right, that's the main thingthat women struggle with.
That I talk to because we doour identity Well.
A lot of times we get so wrappedup in our alcohol consumption
because we're looking to be partof something, to be part of a
group, to be invited to be allthese things, so it becomes part
(38:37):
of our identity, our friendgroup and what we do is so it
can be, especially at differenttimes in our lives, like I'm old
now, so it's not as importantto be what people think, but it
really did matter to me in mytwenties and thirties.
But really, just, I love whatyou said, because knowing who
you are and whose you are moreimportantly, is what gives you
(39:00):
that fortitude to say no.
It makes temperance a loteasier when you can just
recognize like my body is atemple of the Holy Spirit.
God dwells within me and I havethis duty to be careful about,
like what I'm putting in, andthat's not just substances,
that's food, that's what we view, what we hear I mean you
(39:23):
alluded to it when you weretalking about movies and who we
kind of let into our brain sothe more we can root out some of
those things, thosecounterfeits that don't serve us
, that the world offers us, thatthe enemy is offering us, like
forget about God's goodness,here is some cake or wine, and
(39:43):
that's a real thing.
And actually I was thinking, aswe're recording this Advent is
a little ways away, but it'sgoing to be here before we know
it.
And I was thinking about how,like at Advent, we're called to
you know, it's a little Lent sowe're called to kind of like get
rid of some of those things andmake way for Jesus when he
comes at Christmas and when wecelebrate that, I should say,
(40:09):
and a lot of times Advent, it'slike all bets are off.
We're like eating all the thingsand drinking all the things and
buying all the things, andreally we're called to kind of
make space, and that's not justfor Advent.
It's like when we can let go ofsome of these things, detach
from these things that are notserving us, then you make room
(40:32):
for him to enter, you make roomfor those devotions to grow in
love and virtue, like Our Lady,and just really understand your
faith.
And that just gives us thispeace and joy that we are
seeking when we reach for aglass of wine Right, because
we're just like.
I just need to like shut it off, I just need to chill out, I
just need to be calm.
(40:53):
But really we get that peaceand that joy even amidst the
chaos, even amidst the kidsscreaming and running around and
doing whatever, when we havethat indwelling and we allow God
in to love us and comfort usand just be with us in those
(41:13):
moments definitely.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
I agree completely and I think you know make.
I loved your you mentioningAdvent.
Right is that preparation?
But there is also like replaceit with something correct, right
?
So you know, during Advent,there is that abstaining.
There is that preparation.
There is that unintentionalnature of the season which we
(41:38):
have in our Christmas nightdropping guide coming up soon.
You're going to love it, it'sso awesome.
But in addition to thatpreparing of the heart, there's
the practical preparations ofthe season.
Right, it's not just like holdback and nothing else, and so I
think that's spiritually helpfulbut also practically helpful.
Like, if you feel stressed, youcan't just sit there and be
(42:00):
like white knuckling, right,like I'm just, I'm not going to
drink, I'm not going to drink.
You have to do something else.
At least for me, I had toreplace that with something
that's good.
Yeah, uh, yes, I don't think Idon't know, can anybody just
white knuckle their way through?
Maybe that does happen, but Idon't have that strength
(42:23):
spiritually and in life.
Right, similar with otheraddictions or other problems.
You can't just sit there and belike I'm not going to do it.
Even a priest I heard one timesay for folks who struggle with
pornography and stuff.
Just hold the rosary in yourhands.
You need something to do.
Hold the rosary in your hands,little, practical things.
(42:44):
Just replace the thing you'reholding.
Replace the image you'relooking at.
Look at an image of the sacredheart of Jesus.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
And, yeah, I love that you mentioned that.
Thank you for mentioning that,because, yeah, you can't just
root it out and then just leavespace.
You have to, like, fill it withsomething more substantial.
It's like if you're eating junkfood all the time and then you
stop eating junk food, you can'tjust not eat anything, you
still have to eat something, soyou replace it with more
nutritious food that is going tofuel your body and nourish your
(43:16):
body, and the same is true withour spiritual life.
Thank you so much formentioning that.
You alluded to your Christmascatalog or whatever, so I want
to hear about that.
But why don't you go ahead andtell everybody, brooke, about
the business that you and yourhusband have its mission and
(43:36):
where they can find you andanything else that they should
know?
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Thank you so much.
Yeah, so our company isCatholic-owned.
We're building the new Catholiceconomy, so our vision is to
have one place we have an appand our website where you can
access everything, all businesstypes.
If you can imagine a wholeeconomy, you've got B2B, b2c,
local companies that come to youto serve you, or national
(44:03):
companies like your company thatyou can fulfill anywhere.
All of these companies in awhole economy in one place and
all owned by devout Catholics.
So we don't have to give ourdollars to companies you know
paying for their employees to goon a seat to get an abortion.
We don't have to pay forcompanies where their health
insurance is paying for theircompany's abortions.
(44:25):
We don't have all of thesethings where you know we need to
buy things for our families orour business aides.
Those dollars can be going to acompany that's at least at a
minimum, being operated by anadult Catholic and, god willing,
the prophets are going tosupport their family, their
local parish, the projects thatGod has called them to do, right
(44:49):
, and so it's getting on thisflywheel going of Catholic
dollars, staying with Catholics,and there's nothing wrong with
that.
Everyone else does it, and it'stime for us to do it.
And so that's what we do.
We have our app, we've gothundreds of companies, we got
thousands of app users and justamazing, amazing community that
we're growing Now for Christmas,because obviously, of course,
(45:14):
we all want to take Advent as apenitential season and a
preparation, but we do want tobe ready for Christmas.
It's the time of year we allshop most, and so the tool we
have is called our ChristmasTide Shopping Guide.
It's a digital magazine and ithas two key sections.
So first we have vendors thatsell physical goods, so things
(45:37):
that make great gifts foreveryone.
On your list we have 36 thisyear, which is I'm totally
amazed by that Men, women, kids,teachers, stockings, stuffers,
like all kinds of gifts.
And then the other side of thistool is a liturgical living
guide, and so this is a seriesof more than 25 articles that
(46:01):
walk you through Advent, andactually we start with the
Annunciation and we walk throughwith our Blessed Mother all the
way through her pregnancy,through the Nativity and on to
Candlemas.
So it's the whole season toprepare and then celebrate,
because Christmas doesn't end onthe 25th, it actually begins,
(46:23):
and so there's like a littlehalf reflection on these 25, 26
feasts.
So it's very digestible.
If you don't want necessarilyget like a whole devotional
advent book, you can just usethis little five minute reading
beautiful art and just grow indevotion throughout the season.
And so that's going to bedropping on november 4th totally
(46:43):
free, and all of our app userswill get it, and you'll probably
be hearing more about it aswell.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
So that is such a neat addition because I know
we're all looking for likelittle ways to incorporate more
of Jesus, of reflection, of allof that during Advent, and that
sounds like a really digestibleway to do it.
And you're right, it'sChristmas starts on the 25th and
it just goes through, so I lovethat.
(47:10):
It's that whole gamut from theAnnunciation to Candlemas and
yeah, that's great, I can't waitto see it.
So is that something?
Do they have to sign up on yourwebsite to be able to receive
that?
Or do you have a link for that,for just that, to be able to
receive that?
Or?
Speaker 2 (47:27):
do you have a link for that?
For just that.
So all of our app users willreceive it.
So, depending when this goeslive, the safe thing you can do
is just go to my website,catholicownedcom, or you can
download the app in the AppleStore, catholic Owned, or in the
Google Play Store, catholicOwned.
You can use referral codeCatholic Sobriety Coach at
(47:50):
download.
The app is totally free, butjust so we know that we came
from Christy's podcast, theChristmas Headjobbing Guide will
go to all of our app users onNovember 4th.
If you download, you can browsethe hundreds of businesses we
have.
It's a win-win.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Great.
Well, thank you, brooke, somuch for sharing your story and
answering some of my questionsthat I just kind of put on you.
I didn't give you a big headsup on it, but you did
beautifully and I think youprovided so much great
information.
Just not just, as you knowsomeone who isn't drinking
(48:26):
because you realized that it wascausing some chaos or causing a
problem or actually just makingit so that you weren't the
person that you desired to be orthat you thought God was
calling you to be, but I reallyappreciate some of our
theological discussion too.
That blessed me and I'm sureit'll bless the listeners too.
So thank you so much for beinghere, brooke.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Oh, thank you so much .
I hope this helps some souls.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
I appreciate it.
Well, that does it for thisepisode of the Catholic Sobriety
Podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand I would invite you to share
it with a friend, who mightalso get value from it as well.
And make sure you subscribe soyou don't miss a thing.
I am the Catholic sobrietycoach, and if you would like to
(49:15):
learn how to work with me orlearn more about the coaching
that I offer, visit my website,thecatholicsobrietycoachcom.
Follow me on Instagram at theCatholic Sobriety Coach.
I look forward to speaking toyou next time, and remember I am
(49:36):
here for you, I am praying foryou, you are not alone.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Catholic Sobriety Podcast, the
go-to resource for women seekingto have a deeper understanding
of the role alcohol plays intheir lives, Women who are
looking to drink less or not atall for any reason.
I am your host, Christi Walker.
I'm a wife, mom and ajoy-filled Catholic, and I am
(00:22):
the Catholic Sobriety Coach, andI am so glad you're here.
If you've listened to mypodcast for any length of time,
you know that I'm fond of sayingthat you don't have to have a
drinking problem to realize thatdrinking is becoming a problem
(00:42):
for you, and that is what mynext guest and I are going to be
talking about.
Slave of Jesus in Mary.
Brooke Joyner is a convert tothe Catholic faith and wife to
Matteo Onori, mother of fourwonderful children.
She's also the co-founder andCEO of Catholic Owned, a company
(01:07):
dedicated to supportingCatholic business owners and
building the new Catholiceconomy.
Welcome to the podcast, Brooke.
I'm so happy to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Thank you, christy, it's a pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
So, brooke, why don't you just go ahead and share
about your personal journey andwhat initially inspired you to
reduce, or actually eliminatealcohol from your life?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, I think kind of similar to other people normal
drinking, I guess in college andas an adult, you know, with
dinner or with friends, it'sjust like casual, normal
drinking.
My husband is from Italy, so welived there for four years and
his family makes wine, so wedrank wine in Italy, so that was
(02:02):
fine.
We moved to South Florida in2019.
And down here, like, it'salways summer, so people are
kind of like always havingbarbecues, always drinking.
So our jobs were reallystressful.
We were running a companytogether, not our company,
another company.
That was really stressful.
For those few years wedefinitely would have a beer or
(02:25):
whatever because, like, we werestressed out.
You know, it was like a morethan full time situation.
It was hard as time went on, aswe kind of grew in devotion to
our Blessed Mother.
That's kind of an importantpart of the story.
We wanted to drink less.
We also felt called to startanother business, to move away
(02:47):
from the industry we were in.
So we said, okay, how can we dothat?
You know, the job that we haveis like all-consuming.
We both would do it all thetime.
How can we do?
And we just looked at ourschedule and we realized, like
after dinner, after the kids arein bed there's a couple hours,
(03:10):
and so we said, okay, well, howare we going to use the time?
And I think we have to becompletely sober so we're not
tired, and so that's kind of howit came to not want to drink
anymore.
We wanted to use the time forother things.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, that's so great , but how did that go over with
your husband's family being thatthey make wine and everything?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, I mean, they only make it for themselves.
So, like they make olive oil,they have gardens, so it's like
a self-sustaining kind of thing.
Have gardens, so it's like aself-sustaining kind of thing,
but we don't see them that much.
And you know, I remember when Iwas living in Italy and I was
pregnant with my children, itwas a little controversial that
I didn't drink wine duringpregnancy.
(03:57):
So yeah, in their region it'svery much like oh're going to
have like a half a glass withyour meal and I'm like I'm okay,
you know, without.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
But other than those occasions, because we just we
don't see them all that much.
And you know, I like reallyvisited last year and I think my
husband had like a glass ofwine with them or whatever.
Like it's totally fine with ameal or something.
Oh, so really no trouble.
I would say, you know, they,they don't really care about yes
(04:35):
, good.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
So, brooke, how did your faith because you were, you
alluded to it in the beginning,but how did your faith play a
role in your decision to?
You know, eliminate alcohol.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, and so kind of similar to wanting more time to
do other things that for us weremore important and we saw as a
way to move forward in life.
We also want to spend some time, you know, like grateful and
(05:11):
again, like if you startcreating the rosary, like you
don't want to wait until the endof the day, first of all, but
if you do and you have wine withdinner, like it's over, you're
going to miss your prayers, andthen that feels terrible because
it's like I want to do thisevery day and so it's like you
know just little things likethat that you're.
(05:34):
Anytime you drink any, I meanin my experience I don't want to
speak for others, but for me,anytime I would drink alcohol, I
felt like I was losing time andI mean mean wasting time and
and I don't really believe thatI have unlimited time- you know,
and so I have to do what Godasked me to do wrong here.
(05:58):
And so, just as we grew, withHeather Rosemary Moore, we
started practicing the fight.
For Saturday we did our Marianconsecration and you know, it's
kind of all these things goingto happen concurrently over a
period of time.
(06:27):
Consecration to the erectedheart is you give everything
that you are to our blessedmother for her to do with
whatever she wants, and likethat includes all the merits of
all of your good works, past,present and future, which a lot
of people have a hard time, butalso like your body, your mind,
your time, everything, and so,like sort of a good practice is,
(06:49):
whatever you do for yourself,like you should do it as if you
were doing it for our blessedmother.
And it's like, well, I kind ofdon't think our blessed mother
was drinking.
I don't see it.
I don't think we havedocumentation about that.
So I'm not going to pretendthat's a dogma or something, but
I found that very hard tobelieve and so it was like, if
(07:11):
I'm consecrating and givingevery other part of my life, who
am I to be damaging my bodywith toxins and wasting time and
also wasting the good worksthat I could be doing at that
time.
So that is kind of thespiritual side, just maybe a
(07:32):
little bit harsh and maybe notthe right explanation for every
person, but that was definitelywhere I went with that.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, I think that's a great example of how alcohol
was causing chaos in your life.
It was becoming a problem.
You weren't able to do thethings that you wanted to do or
be the person that you wanted tobe, and so you found that first
reducing and then ultimatelyeliminating alcohol enabled you
(08:03):
and your husband to start thisbusiness that you had on your
heart, that you felt like Godwas calling you to, and then
just go more deeply into yourfaith, do the Marian
consecration and all of that,and I know that you and I kind
of talked about it when we weremessaging back and forth.
But you know, as Catholics,people like, expect us to drink.
(08:24):
They're like Catholics arealcoholics, Like you worship
Mary and you're alcoholics Like.
Those are the two things thatI've always heard and I'm like,
OK, no and no.
But you know, those are things,unfortunately, that people
think about us or like to sayabout us as Catholics.
And you know I'm not sayingthat Catholics don't like to
(08:46):
drink, we do.
It's like a cultural part of it.
Obviously, the Eucharist iswine turned into the body, blood
, soul and divinity of Jesus atthe time of consecration.
I think there's just this stigmaaround not drinking if you're a
Catholic and then if you're aCatholic woman, I just kind of
(09:07):
feel like it's up-leveled alittle bit.
For whatever reason, in socialcircles and when we go to events
, there's a lot of alcoholpresent.
It's not that people areover-consuming like crazy, but
it's definitely always there.
So what?
(09:28):
As you've gone along and grownin your faith and you know you
said you're a convert did youhave that perception of
Catholics first of all beforeyou became a Catholic?
And then, second of all, whathave you encountered, if
anything, either socially orotherwise, in regards to the
(09:49):
Catholic faith, in your decisionnot to drink?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, I didn't necessarily have any
preconceived notions aboutalcohol for Catholics Like other
than just the stereotypical,like certain cultures that are
historically catholic I don'twant to bash anybody so I'm not
gonna say it, but like that theywould drink a lot or other
things like that.
But it wasn't really even on myradar.
(10:15):
You know, I knew that like Icould drink but like not to
access, so I knew that like thatthat was technically sinful,
right.
So in terms of what I'veencountered, you know, it's a
very interesting conversation tohave with people because there
is, you know, there are peoplewho make the argument like that
(10:37):
feasting and fasting, likethere's a place for both of
those and, for example, like ifyou don't feast properly, like
it's like somehow they've triedto make an argument that that is
diminishing the celebration orsomething which I kind of find
that absurd.
But I haven't been convinced byany argument so far, and maybe
(11:02):
I just haven't spoken with theright person who could construct
that, but I was not convincedby that.
I'm also obviously sociallydrinking and I would say and
this is super controversial butcigar smoking I kind of cluster
these two together Very sociallya thing.
(11:24):
I get it.
I know businesses that aretotally formed around that and
that's great.
There maybe are people who canindulge in that and that's great
.
I kind of view it similar toalcohol.
So there's a lot in thecatholic world.
It's like that is verymasculine and, as you said, kind
of drinking wine is like a veryfeminine thing, right, but like
(11:48):
, for me I do think it is justfundamentally neither of those
things are helping people andI'll never convince otherwise
again, unless it meets a buddywho can't.
But until that I don't thinkthat those things are helping
people be holier and if ourpurpose is to get to have it, I
(12:08):
will do anything to do that.
So if something is even likethe smallest hindrance, then
like I want to be done with thatthing.
You know the other piece, andthis is something that I
actually just yesterday went toan event and I was like getting
all ready, you know, beforeevents.
So I'm noticing even it's beena few years since I drink
(12:31):
alcohol.
I've drank any alcohol now butI'll notice occasions where I
would previously, you know,dream and notice how I'm feeling
when I can't.
So it's social anxiety.
Social anxiety is what it is.
So, getting ready for events, Itotally work at social anxiety
(12:52):
and the longer it takes me toget ready, the worse it is.
So yesterday it was a long oneand I was like by the end of it
it was like an hour and a half Itexted my husband.
I was like, yeah, I this, thisis.
I break wine when I get readyfor events.
It's like the anticipation,it's really anxiety inducing,
(13:15):
just for me personally.
And then being in thosesituations like you got to
figure out what to say.
You have to sit with thoseuncomfortable feelings and in
the case of you know that was abusiness event.
So in a networking event likeyou still have to show up and
(13:37):
represent your business or yourbrand or whatever your thing is
with those uncomfortablefeelings and that's really,
really hard and I do believethat that's why a lot of people
do drink at those events,because who wants to deal with
that like it's veryuncomfortable?
yeah but so I noticed that inmyself.
(14:00):
You know this is uncomfortable.
Previously I would sort of copewith that by drinking, but then
there's always like a littlemoment of victory after.
It's like you know, yeah, Ipushed through and it was good
and I have more respect formyself because I'm developing
(14:22):
emotional skills right andemotional intelligence by
pushing through and having todeal with the situation.
So it's an ongoing thing withthe social anxiety, but I really
think that's why a lot ofpeople will want to drink in
those events is to deal withthat and to hide that.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
That is 100% true, because I know I mean, that's
something that my clientsstruggle with all the time.
Or even just women who arethinking about, who talk to me
about maybe reducing oreliminating alcohol.
Is that well, I can be fine,like maybe I can not have it at
home or whatever, but as soon asthere's a social event, there's
(15:05):
just that, like you perfectlyexplained, I'm sure so many of
my listeners are just noddingtheir heads, like you know, like
that's the thing that keeps medrinking, or they have that
intention, like I'm not going todrink tonight or I'm going to
have one tonight.
You get into that situation.
You get super uncomfortable andjust kind of give in to that
(15:27):
urge because you don't want tobe the odd one out.
Or you are having that socialanxiety of having to talk to
people.
A lot of us who are introvertslike I always say I'm an
extroverted introvert because Ican really talk to anybody but I
prefer to be by myself I thinka lot of us are like that when
we think about going to events.
(15:49):
Once we're there and we have aplan around it, manage our minds
like this is what's going tohappen.
These feelings are going tocreep up and I can tell you,
almost 30 years later of notdrinking, it still happens to me
.
I still my brain will be likenot that I want it, not that I'm
like craving it, but my brainis still like you're the only
(16:11):
one, or people are like lookingat you, you know in a way, yes,
and it's like that's so dumbChristy, like you know this, you
teach people that, like youtalk about it all the time and,
thankfully for me, because it'sbeen so many years and I've
managed it, it's usually just asplit second type of thing.
But when, especially when you'renew and when you're just
(16:34):
starting to reduce or eliminatealcohol, you just it's
uncomfortable.
You have to just kind of sitwith the discomfort and also,
like you said, then the next dayyou feel a victory for yourself
and I can tell you that I'vehad many women come to me who
regretted their decision todrink, but I've never once had
(16:58):
anybody say I really regret mydecision not to drink last night
, like I really wish that Idrank last night.
You know what I mean.
So that is something that isalways important to keep in mind
.
You'll get through it, it'sgoing to be fine.
It's just, yes, it's going tobe uncomfortable, but with
planning you'll get through it.
(17:19):
And if it gets superuncomfortable, you can always
leave too.
So you know, I always tellpeople like, just get as
uncomfortable as you can.
But if it's to the point whereyou just can't resist like you
know you're just going to go upto the bar and get a glass of
wine that might be the time totell your husband like I'm, I'm
(17:42):
super uncomfortable, I just Ican't be here right now and
that's okay.
That is so okay to make thatdecision for you and for you
know what promises that you'vemade to yourself about doing it
Right?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Well, exactly.
And I think for me, you know,it's like I, just for me
personally like I don't feeltempted to drink alcohol,
because I'm at the point like Ifeel disgusted about the idea
and I do think that's a gracethat I was given to be able to
just be like I'm at the pointlike I feel disgusted about the
idea and I do think that's agrace that I was given to be
able to just be like I'm donewith it.
I'm walking away and I feelsorry for people who are like
getting drunk, not in a pity,but like I feel sorry for them
(18:19):
because they're not gonna behappy about it.
So I, for myself, idea ofanything drinking alcohol like I
can't.
But the social anxiety of likedealing with the social
situations, not necessarilywearing like will people care,
because I'll just get like aseltzer water with line like so
far no one has ever been like,oh, you're not drinky.
(18:39):
I've never had someone say that, even if I'm just drinking the
plastic cup of water, so thatthankfully that's never happened
.
But the social anxiety will getto me and so, if you're like me
, just go to the bathroom andhave a three minute conversation
with yourself.
I feel totally uncomfortable.
That was super awkward backthere Just stating it and then
(19:01):
it's like, okay, I'm going totry again, but really going to
those events.
I love your concept of having aplan, but for me to take answer
, brothers, like I'm there for apurpose.
I'm there to promote mybusiness because I've been given
this responsibility and there'snot another person on the
planet who's going to do thiswork for me, I have to go do it.
So it's only like that purposethat allows me to push through
(19:27):
my otherwise totally likeawkward social internal
conversation.
So, and that's just what hasworked for me.
I don't know if that'll workfor anyone else, oh, but yeah, I
think that's a great idea to do.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
You know, there's I think you just don't know until
you try different things too andjust see what works for you,
cause, like you were saying,what works for me might not work
for you and vice versa.
And that's why a lot of times,like with my coaching, I don't
tell people like you need to dothis, this, this and this,
because I don't know what'sgoing to make them even more
(20:04):
uncomfortable.
I don't know what's not reallygoing to work.
And so that's where, likesitting down, I always say
invite the Lord in and have himkind of just go through that
event whether you've been tothat specific event before or
one like it and just kind ofcome up with, like all the
(20:26):
things that could happen, whatpeople could say and Brooke, I'm
with you, people do not carewhat is in your glass, just like
I don't care if people aredrinking either, you know.
So you don't care what's intheir glass, they don't care
what's in your glass.
But our brains are just kind ofsometimes they're a little
rough on us and they're like, oh, everyone is looking but
(20:47):
they're not.
They're really, really not.
And the other thing that hadcome up too, when you were
talking, is I like to look atsobriety like chastity, right.
So like sex is a gift, themarital act is a gift between a
husband and wife.
And alcohol I heard Father MikeSchmidt say this like alcohol
(21:12):
is a gift.
So, some people, as long as weuse it in the way that is
appropriate, that is moderate,that keeps us in control, that
has us keeping control of ourwill and our intellect, that can
be done, because people willsay, well, jesus drank wine and
so like well, you know, but ourcatechism does say that if you
(21:38):
are over consuming, if you aremisusing it, you know,
drunkenness is a mortal sinbecause you are killing the body
.
And I didn't know that for along time, but it's actually in
the catechism.
And so you know, we just, if weare going to have it, we have to
treat it as just this gift thatwe have very moderately and
(22:03):
kind of like what you weresaying with your husband when he
went to Italy and had it.
You know, like that's anoccasion where he had good wine
with his family.
It didn't cause any chaos, youknow, for him or any other
problems, and that's why Ialways tell people find the
level of sobriety that works foryou, like if I have one drink
(22:26):
of alcohol it's all bets are offfor me.
You know you could probablymoderate and be fine, but you
don't necessarily like that.
It takes away from other things, like it doesn't help you be a
good steward of your time, ofyour resources, of your gifts
and your talents that God hasgiven you and I would 100% agree
(22:48):
with that.
And then for some people youknow, they can have it once a
week or twice a week or whatever, or on the weekends, and
they're completely fine.
They can live how they want tolive and be who they want to be
and who God is calling them tobe.
So I think that we have to justkind of.
I think that we have to justkind of take it like not every
(23:08):
time, not all times are good tobe drinking or overconsuming.
We shouldn't do that.
And the same is with theMarital Act.
You know, not everybody can dothat or should do that.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
We have to have moderation and respect for the
other and yeah, so I really seethe spiritual correlation
between drinking over consumingand that moderation kind of say,
(23:47):
like we should be drinking likethe feasting versus fasting
kind of thing I couldn't haveheard them say that before like
it's like the marital act and um, my response to that and I
don't, I totally don't want tocontradict you at all, no,
you're fine.
I'm sorry if this is that, butthe marital act is by nature a
(24:12):
good for the survival of thespecies and it's like the.
You know, equal purpose to theunion of the spouses is the
procreation of children.
That's the purpose of marriageright?
Marriage right.
Alcohol doesn't have any ofthose things.
So for me it's like that's whatand I mean again, maybe I'm
(24:35):
just too black and white and Iunderstand, not everyone is that
way but it's like what is thefundamental good of ever
drinking?
Because I don't.
For me personally, if I have alittle bit of alcohol my mental
capacity, even if it's reduced0.1% you are giving up a certain
level of control.
(24:55):
You are giving up the highestand best use of your gifts.
I'm not convinced that that'sever good, but for me I just
find myself thinking like Idon't see that's ever good.
But for me I just find myselfthinking like I don't see that
as ever good.
I don't.
The only good of it that I couldsee is like sometimes, when you
(25:20):
just need to get out of theroutine, like the same thing as
like a vacation, which is maybethe kind of concept of feasting,
but it's like you know,removing yourself from a
situation just for a change ofscenery, to just unplug and then
with the intention ofreplugging right back in.
That's the only sort of benefitI can see.
(25:41):
But I see other things that canachieve that same unplugging,
like go see a movie, which ofcourse obviously you want to
make sure it's not like risking,you know, being too
over-sexualized or other sins,et cetera.
But there are other things youcan do that don't steal time the
next day.
(26:01):
So it's something interestingthat I obviously have thought
about, but I just don't thinkit's ever good.
But again, I mean, I'm withpeople who do it all the time,
so I'm not judging them, butit's just, if you ask me, that's
what I think.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
No, I appreciate your perspective on that and how you
explain that and you know, Iagree at somebody that doesn't
drink.
I agree that I don't really seeany value in it.
But what about those?
What would you say to those whodo say, well, Jesus drank wine,
the apostles drank wine, likeeverybody did that, and then
(26:39):
also we use wine in, you know,the Eucharist, in the sacrament
of the Holy Eucharist.
So what would you say to peopleabout that?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
I'm not a historian but I do understand that
drinking water was like aproblem back then and the wine
was safe because of thedisinfecting qualities.
The wine was safe because ofthe disinfecting qualities, so I
do understand that.
You know, for certain centuriesdrinking water was unsafe,
(27:19):
especially in cities.
It changes into blood and theamount that you're drinking to
do what our Lord told us, ifyour parish distributes the
precious blood, first of allit's not wine anymore, it's
blood.
So second, it's a tiny littlesip.
Our parishes in Florida don'treally distribute the precious
(27:41):
blood and I'm not upset about itbecause I'm very concerned
about the particles or dropsbeing dropped.
So I'm not upset at all becauseI'm very concerned about the
particles or drops being dropped.
So I'm not upset at all.
I prefer that actually.
And then the other thing youknow, looking at like our Lord,
I mean he can do anything thathe wants.
(28:02):
So I guess, like God, beingallowed to do something doesn't
mean I would do that.
And then the apostles I meanjust because they did something
doesn't mean we should do it.
Like St Peter denied our Lordthree times, you know.
Yeah, I don't know if that'sreally good and I don't know if
(28:24):
they drank because they didn'thave water.
I don't know if they drank forlike debauchery Like I have no
idea.
I don't know if they drankbecause they didn't have water.
I don't know if they drank forlike debauchery Like I have no
idea, I don't know.
I'm not necessarily convincingargument for me.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah, that's what I'm probably saying and I totally
put you on the spot, you didamazing, thank you.
And I think you're right I'veactually heard that too about
like the water.
They didn't have watertreatment plants like we have
now, so it could be very unsafe.
And yeah, and I think thingswere different than the way that
(28:55):
they made wine, the way youknow, that it first of all
probably didn't have all thepesticides and things that ours
have in it from a healthstandpoint.
But yeah, I think it's kind oflike how it is culturally.
Culturally in certain areaslike you think of France or
Italy, where they just have theycan, it seems as though they
can moderate a little bit more,that they see it as just
(29:17):
something, an enhancement, notsomething that they use to just
get totally wasted on all thetime, although I know that that
does occur to you, it doeshappen time, although I know
that that does occur to you.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
It does happen, yeah, and I would say too, like, if
you imagine, like the wedding atcana, like, where they got the
water, where did they get thewater?
In the jar and then, and thewineskins, like, or that, they
were jars, they were the I'm sosorry I misspoke, they were the,
I don't want to say thesacramental jars.
What is the word ceremonial?
Like the jewish, theyweremonial, like the Jewish,
they were ceremonial jars, Ibelieve.
(29:51):
But where did they get thewater from?
Like, was it good water todrink?
I know they drew the water, somaybe it was a well, but if it
wasn't from a well, if it waslike from a river or something
like, it was a purification tomake it.
So they had something right,because some people will use the
Cana argument.
So they had something right,because some people will use the
Cana argument.
The second thing that's comingto mind is, even in these
(30:12):
cultures, like in France and inItaly, where this is such an
important thing, you know, thegreatest saints, like St Clair
of Assisi, for example, like,think about what they did, like
they cloistered themselves.
They renounced everything ofthe world and they cloistered.
(30:34):
They closed themselves in.
So I learned this last yearbecause we went there.
There was like literally like awrought iron window, that the
door, the priests would come andgive them communion every,
otherwise they were totallyclosed in like prisoners, like,
if you can imagine, that's whatcloistered means, but like
voluntary, not basically.
Yeah, so, like the greatestsaints like a what you know, a
(30:56):
higher level of perfection whichwe are all called to, the more
you renounce of the world like,the more quickly you amount to
higher perfection, and so thegreatest saints of our time, of
all time, actually were notdoing that.
Maybe they did it earlier inlife, but they left it behind.
So I think there's something tothat as well.
(31:17):
So, yeah, that's kind of goingdeep on that.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Well, and so many saints talk about being sober
minded, and the Bible mentionsit many, many times as well.
So I think that we just have todefinitely take that into
consideration and think about,like, what is keeping us from
God or doing his will?
And because it does, alcoholdoes darken our will and our
(31:43):
intellect, and it's just a factand it does.
So it's definitely something toconsider.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Again, like, not every one solution is right for
everybody, but yeah for sure andI do think it's important to
just be honest with yourself,like, yeah, is that really not
affecting you?
Really Not at all, zero percent.
Because being intellectuallyhonest, and that's kind of a
(32:11):
harsh thing, and only eachperson can have that
conversation, of course, and Idon't want to be judgmental
because it's kind of a harshthing to say but if you ask
yourself in full intellectualhonesty, a person cannot say
alcohol doesn't affect me at all, zero percent.
(32:32):
Because if that's true, thenwhy do you drink it?
So it either affects you or itdoesn't.
But both of those two thingscannot be true at the same time.
And so that's, for me, is likeI had to ask myself.
It's like, yeah, it does, andthat's why I want to drink it,
(32:57):
but that is also why I should it.
So, anyways, but that's like myhard core black and white,
intellectually honest to the end, you know, approach which,
again, I understand, is all foreverybody and I totally respect
people that it's not for, butthat's our, that's my story.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
So yeah, that's what we're here to learn and to be
inspired with, because I thinkso many women women in general,
but Catholic women too we, youknow we have this desire.
We know that we want to grow infaith, that we want to lead
ourselves and our spouses andour children to heaven, like we,
(33:38):
that is, like our main job,right, is just to get everybody
to heaven.
Well, our main job is toworship the Lord and love him,
and you know and all of that.
But that's what we're here todo is to lead others to him.
And if we can't shine light on,you know, those things that are
(33:58):
keeping us from him, you know,like stuffing it in the closet
you kind of alluded to that justlike not really looking at it.
Just be very honest withyourself, like you do when you
go to reconciliation, when youmake an exam and a good exam and
just make sure that you're nothiding anything from yourself or
trying to make excuses so thatit doesn't feel so bad, or like
(34:22):
I'm not as bad as her or I don'tdo it every night or my kids
never see me.
You just have to, like you said, get honest with yourself about
really how it's affecting you,your life, your spiritual life,
your physical health and justall of those things, because it
is affecting you andscientifically speaking, it
(34:43):
affects you Like all thoseneurotransmitters.
Get all hyped up.
And I just was reading a bookcalled Drink and it's by
Professor David Nutt.
And so if you want to learn, ifyou want to geek out on all the
science behind what happensafter you take a drink of
alcohol, from the time you takea drink until you've really over
(35:05):
consumed, that is an excellentbook to read and it's very eye
opening for sure.
So before we kind of close with, what advice would you give to
Catholic women who feel isolated, who are afraid that maybe
they'll?
There's like a stigma, maybepeople won't, women won't want
(35:26):
to hang out with them orsomething if they are struggling
, finding that they'restruggling with alcohol or just
realizing that it's just notserving them, it's keeping them
from what God is actually askingthem to do the same advice that
I most often get is grow inholiness, because when you grow
(35:50):
in holiness I can see all theway you can hear what God is
asking you to do.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Second is to help sort of get rid of the social
concern is just remembering ourtrue purpose, which you kind of
alluded to to know God, love Godand serve God so we can be
happy with him forever in heaven.
So remembering that and reallygetting that as your focus in
(36:17):
life, you know that helps,because then other things just
melt away Like, oh well, if youdon't want to hang out with me
because I'm trying to get toheaven, like you might be
holding me back anyway, so maybethat's better.
But like I'm not holding on tothat friend Judgment Day, I can
tell you that much.
Most people aren't like asextreme as I am of like I will
(36:39):
do anything.
Like a crazy person, I will doanything to get to heaven, no
matter the cost.
It really doesn't matter.
And so having a singularpurpose helps.
And then the growing inholiness, because you want to
build your identity around that.
A lot of times in our culturethe identity is a lot wrapped up
(37:01):
in social circles or materialgoods or career accomplishments,
those types of things.
So remembering your purpose,growing in holiness, building
identity around those things therest just kind of melted away
in my experience because youstart receiving graces.
(37:22):
I wasn't able to just walk awayfrom drinking ever again
because of my own desire.
It was a grace to say I'm donewith this, I don't want to do
this anymore.
I got better stuff to do and itwas a grace that I wasn't
chemically dependent, becauseobviously that complicates the
situation much further.
(37:42):
Yes, these are all graces.
You don't get graces by beingworried about what other people
think, just realizing those thatyou have to rely on those
graces.
And the way to get the gracesis remember your purpose, grow
in holiness, build your identityaround that, go to mass more,
pray the rosary.
The five first saturn islife-changing.
(38:03):
Married consecrationlife-changing, married
consecration life-changing.
So that's my advice is don'tworry about what other people
think.
That's excellent advice.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Two things came up for me.
One is identity.
Right, that's the main thingthat women struggle with.
That I talk to because we doour identity Well.
A lot of times we get so wrappedup in our alcohol consumption
because we're looking to be partof something, to be part of a
group, to be invited to be allthese things, so it becomes part
(38:37):
of our identity, our friendgroup and what we do is so it
can be, especially at differenttimes in our lives, like I'm old
now, so it's not as importantto be what people think, but it
really did matter to me in mytwenties and thirties.
But really, just, I love whatyou said, because knowing who
you are and whose you are moreimportantly, is what gives you
(39:00):
that fortitude to say no.
It makes temperance a loteasier when you can just
recognize like my body is atemple of the Holy Spirit.
God dwells within me and I havethis duty to be careful about,
like what I'm putting in, andthat's not just substances,
that's food, that's what we view, what we hear I mean you
(39:23):
alluded to it when you weretalking about movies and who we
kind of let into our brain sothe more we can root out some of
those things, thosecounterfeits that don't serve us
, that the world offers us, thatthe enemy is offering us, like
forget about God's goodness,here is some cake or wine, and
(39:43):
that's a real thing.
And actually I was thinking, aswe're recording this Advent is
a little ways away, but it'sgoing to be here before we know
it.
And I was thinking about how,like at Advent, we're called to
you know, it's a little Lent sowe're called to kind of like get
rid of some of those things andmake way for Jesus when he
comes at Christmas and when wecelebrate that, I should say,
(40:09):
and a lot of times Advent, it'slike all bets are off.
We're like eating all the thingsand drinking all the things and
buying all the things, andreally we're called to kind of
make space, and that's not justfor Advent.
It's like when we can let go ofsome of these things, detach
from these things that are notserving us, then you make room
(40:32):
for him to enter, you make roomfor those devotions to grow in
love and virtue, like Our Lady,and just really understand your
faith.
And that just gives us thispeace and joy that we are
seeking when we reach for aglass of wine Right, because
we're just like.
I just need to like shut it off, I just need to chill out, I
just need to be calm.
(40:53):
But really we get that peaceand that joy even amidst the
chaos, even amidst the kidsscreaming and running around and
doing whatever, when we havethat indwelling and we allow God
in to love us and comfort usand just be with us in those
(41:13):
moments definitely.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
I agree completely and I think you know make.
I loved your you mentioningAdvent.
Right is that preparation?
But there is also like replaceit with something correct, right
?
So you know, during Advent,there is that abstaining.
There is that preparation.
There is that unintentionalnature of the season which we
(41:38):
have in our Christmas nightdropping guide coming up soon.
You're going to love it, it'sso awesome.
But in addition to thatpreparing of the heart, there's
the practical preparations ofthe season.
Right, it's not just like holdback and nothing else, and so I
think that's spiritually helpfulbut also practically helpful.
Like, if you feel stressed, youcan't just sit there and be
(42:00):
like white knuckling, right,like I'm just, I'm not going to
drink, I'm not going to drink.
You have to do something else.
At least for me, I had toreplace that with something
that's good.
Yeah, uh, yes, I don't think Idon't know, can anybody just
white knuckle their way through?
Maybe that does happen, but Idon't have that strength
(42:23):
spiritually and in life.
Right, similar with otheraddictions or other problems.
You can't just sit there and belike I'm not going to do it.
Even a priest I heard one timesay for folks who struggle with
pornography and stuff.
Just hold the rosary in yourhands.
You need something to do.
Hold the rosary in your hands,little, practical things.
(42:44):
Just replace the thing you'reholding.
Replace the image you'relooking at.
Look at an image of the sacredheart of Jesus.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
And, yeah, I love that you mentioned that.
Thank you for mentioning that,because, yeah, you can't just
root it out and then just leavespace.
You have to, like, fill it withsomething more substantial.
It's like if you're eating junkfood all the time and then you
stop eating junk food, you can'tjust not eat anything, you
still have to eat something, soyou replace it with more
nutritious food that is going tofuel your body and nourish your
(43:16):
body, and the same is true withour spiritual life.
Thank you so much formentioning that.
You alluded to your Christmascatalog or whatever, so I want
to hear about that.
But why don't you go ahead andtell everybody, brooke, about
the business that you and yourhusband have its mission and
(43:36):
where they can find you andanything else that they should
know?
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Thank you so much.
Yeah, so our company isCatholic-owned.
We're building the new Catholiceconomy, so our vision is to
have one place we have an appand our website where you can
access everything, all businesstypes.
If you can imagine a wholeeconomy, you've got B2B, b2c,
local companies that come to youto serve you, or national
(44:03):
companies like your company thatyou can fulfill anywhere.
All of these companies in awhole economy in one place and
all owned by devout Catholics.
So we don't have to give ourdollars to companies you know
paying for their employees to goon a seat to get an abortion.
We don't have to pay forcompanies where their health
insurance is paying for theircompany's abortions.
(44:25):
We don't have all of thesethings where you know we need to
buy things for our families orour business aides.
Those dollars can be going to acompany that's at least at a
minimum, being operated by anadult Catholic and, god willing,
the prophets are going tosupport their family, their
local parish, the projects thatGod has called them to do, right
(44:49):
, and so it's getting on thisflywheel going of Catholic
dollars, staying with Catholics,and there's nothing wrong with
that.
Everyone else does it, and it'stime for us to do it.
And so that's what we do.
We have our app, we've gothundreds of companies, we got
thousands of app users and justamazing, amazing community that
we're growing Now for Christmas,because obviously, of course,
(45:14):
we all want to take Advent as apenitential season and a
preparation, but we do want tobe ready for Christmas.
It's the time of year we allshop most, and so the tool we
have is called our ChristmasTide Shopping Guide.
It's a digital magazine and ithas two key sections.
So first we have vendors thatsell physical goods, so things
(45:37):
that make great gifts foreveryone.
On your list we have 36 thisyear, which is I'm totally
amazed by that Men, women, kids,teachers, stockings, stuffers,
like all kinds of gifts.
And then the other side of thistool is a liturgical living
guide, and so this is a seriesof more than 25 articles that
(46:01):
walk you through Advent, andactually we start with the
Annunciation and we walk throughwith our Blessed Mother all the
way through her pregnancy,through the Nativity and on to
Candlemas.
So it's the whole season toprepare and then celebrate,
because Christmas doesn't end onthe 25th, it actually begins,
(46:23):
and so there's like a littlehalf reflection on these 25, 26
feasts.
So it's very digestible.
If you don't want necessarilyget like a whole devotional
advent book, you can just usethis little five minute reading
beautiful art and just grow indevotion throughout the season.
And so that's going to bedropping on november 4th totally
(46:43):
free, and all of our app userswill get it, and you'll probably
be hearing more about it aswell.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
So that is such a neat addition because I know
we're all looking for likelittle ways to incorporate more
of Jesus, of reflection, of allof that during Advent, and that
sounds like a really digestibleway to do it.
And you're right, it'sChristmas starts on the 25th and
it just goes through, so I lovethat.
(47:10):
It's that whole gamut from theAnnunciation to Candlemas and
yeah, that's great, I can't waitto see it.
So is that something?
Do they have to sign up on yourwebsite to be able to receive
that?
Or do you have a link for that,for just that, to be able to
receive that?
Or?
Speaker 2 (47:27):
do you have a link for that?
For just that.
So all of our app users willreceive it.
So, depending when this goeslive, the safe thing you can do
is just go to my website,catholicownedcom, or you can
download the app in the AppleStore, catholic Owned, or in the
Google Play Store, catholicOwned.
You can use referral codeCatholic Sobriety Coach at
(47:50):
download.
The app is totally free, butjust so we know that we came
from Christy's podcast, theChristmas Headjobbing Guide will
go to all of our app users onNovember 4th.
If you download, you can browsethe hundreds of businesses we
have.
It's a win-win.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Great.
Well, thank you, brooke, somuch for sharing your story and
answering some of my questionsthat I just kind of put on you.
I didn't give you a big headsup on it, but you did
beautifully and I think youprovided so much great
information.
Just not just, as you knowsomeone who isn't drinking
(48:26):
because you realized that it wascausing some chaos or causing a
problem or actually just makingit so that you weren't the
person that you desired to be orthat you thought God was
calling you to be, but I reallyappreciate some of our
theological discussion too.
That blessed me and I'm sureit'll bless the listeners too.
So thank you so much for beinghere, brooke.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Oh, thank you so much .
I hope this helps some souls.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
I appreciate it.
Well, that does it for thisepisode of the Catholic Sobriety
Podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand I would invite you to share
it with a friend, who mightalso get value from it as well.
And make sure you subscribe soyou don't miss a thing.
I am the Catholic sobrietycoach, and if you would like to
(49:15):
learn how to work with me orlearn more about the coaching
that I offer, visit my website,thecatholicsobrietycoachcom.
Follow me on Instagram at theCatholic Sobriety Coach.
I look forward to speaking toyou next time, and remember I am
(49:36):
here for you, I am praying foryou, you are not alone.
Thank you.
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