March 6, 2025 • 45 mins
Kevin Wells opens his heart to share a powerful testimony of standing by his wife through her battle with alcoholism after his own near-death experience with brain surgery. This deeply personal conversation reveals how a marriage threatened by addiction found healing through unwavering faith and the guidance of an extraordinary priest.
For those currently walking alongside a loved one struggling with addiction, Kevin offers hard-earned wisdom about the virtues of fortitude and faith. His practice of contemplative prayer—"resting my head against Christ's heart"—sustained him through years of uncertainty. For those personally struggling with alcohol, he encourages heeding the conscience's warnings and making the courageous choice to seek help.
Five years into recovery, Kevin and Krista have experienced the restoration that seemed impossible during their darkest days. Their story stands as living proof that with faith, perseverance, and proper spiritual support, even deeply wounded marriages can find healing and renewed joy through Christ.
To learn more about Kevin Wells and his book The Hermit: The Priest Who Saved a Soul, A Marriage, and A Family visit his website: https://dontgiveupthefight.org/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I am honored to introduce today's guest, kevin
Wells, a gifted author andinspiring storyteller who has
walked through incredible trialswith unwavering faith.
While Kevin himself is not thealcoholic, in his family's story
he witnessed the heartbreakingcause of his wife's descent into
(00:24):
addiction and stood by her sideas she fought her way to
sobriety.
Kevin brings a movingperspective to our conversation
today, offering insights intofaith, hope and the strength
that comes from walking withChrist through life's darkest
moments.
With Christ through life'sdarkest moments.
(00:44):
One of Kevin's most recent books, the Hermit the Priest who
Saved a Soul, a Marriage and aFamily started out as a story
about a priest rescuing a womanfrom the grips of alcoholism,
but evolved into an incredibletestament of how God restored a
marriage and healed a family.
(01:04):
This gripping, sometimesgut-wrenching work takes readers
to the darkest corners of humanstruggle and lifts them to
inspiring heights through theredemptive power of Christ.
Kevin's perspective is one ofhope, faith and resilience, and
I know his story will encourageand inspire you, and I can't
(01:28):
wait to dig into thisconversation.
So thank you so much for beinghere, kevin.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Oh, christy, it's great to be with you.
I love the podcasts that reallygo, that are untamed and raw
and really go there, so it's anhonor to be on your podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Well, it's an honor to have you here, so let's just
get to it.
The Hermit begins with a storyof a priest helping a woman your
wife through her journey towardsobriety, but it grows into
something so much deeper.
I would just love it if youcould just share that story.
I know it's probably a bigstory, so, and you can make it
(02:10):
more concise, but just shareabout it and the heart of this
transformation and how itimpacted you and your family.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Sure, well, well, christy, the, so the meat of it.
Well, what happened was thiswith, as far as my wife, krista,
and how she began to, um,secretly binge drink red wine?
Um, we had been married nineyears and I had brain surgery,
failed brain surgery and uh,wasn't supposed to survive.
And um, uh, some, some thingshappen in their ICU room after a
(02:44):
priest prayed over me andpraise God.
Many believe the priestbelieves, and others from what
they saw that I was healed bysomething not of this earth,
something supernatural.
And I got home and you know Iwasn't supposed to live.
So you would think it's time tokill the fatty calf.
Hey, kevin's still alive.
(03:06):
But what happened was this whenI came home a month later you
know brain surgery is seriousbusiness.
You know I had to relearn howto walk and talk and all that
kind of muddy mess of post-brainsurgery issues, post brain
(03:30):
surgery issues I began to reallystretch myself to try and live
for God alone.
As far as you know, I was closeto death.
You know I was this close andwhen you're considering, yeah,
I'm going to be pretty close tothe judgment seat soon.
And you know, I got a get outof jail free card.
And when I got home I'm likeGod, I want to give you
everything now.
I don't like how I felt, like Iwasn't quite set right for
(03:50):
judgment.
So I began to do all thosethings that a Catholic man would
do, or Catholic woman.
You know more.
You know daily mass, morerosaries, double rosaries,
prison ministry, all the thingsthat you would do.
And my poor wife, krista, um,she didn't know, I didn't know,
but it opened up, um, what shewould call a mother wound of
(04:14):
shame.
Um, when krista was a child,she wasn't quite loved the way,
um, you know you would.
You would hope a mom would lovea seven-year-old daughter and
um, so she, when she saw me sortof going places, she, I think,
would happen when she said Ican't go there or I don't feel
comfortable, or why is kevindoing this?
And to sort of eliminate thisshame, um, that came back 25
(04:39):
years later.
She began to uh, binge drinkred wine, so she covered over
the shame with that.
That's how she killed it andthat's when the dark night of
marriage opened up.
And you know, and I so, christy,I imagine you get into this a
little bit, but I've I've cometo believe that I don't know
about pornography or drugs orany kind of other addiction, but
(05:00):
I do know, with alcohol thatSatan is directly involved
because I watched my wifealcohol that Satan is directly
involved.
Um, because I, I watched mywife really become like a
different entity.
Um, she just wasn't, she wasn'tuh.
So, krista, if you know my wife, she's, she's got a gentle
nature, she's kind, she's kindof the quiet one, the giving one
.
But but I saw, and it wasn'tjust when she was drinking, it
(05:21):
didn't matter when it was, shewas just a different entity.
And I said, well, satan's,satan's got her pretty good
right now and and so, yeah, so,so kind of getting to the chase.
This went on for about seven oreight years.
It was obviously it's toughbecause we have three small kids
and you want a happy marriage,you want a happy home, and and
finally she met a holy priest I,I, I, she met a holy priest.
(05:44):
I know a lot of priests becauseI do a lot of writing and
written some books about priestsand I've gotten to know priests
from throughout the country andI don't know if we'll ever meet
another priest like FatherMartin Flume.
He's now a consecrated hermit.
He's given his life over to Godas a hermit, almost like the
Old Testament prophets.
He's like St Anthony of theDesert He'll never be seen again
(06:07):
on this side of earth.
But he was the one that finallyreally sort of took a spiral
staircase into her soul,christus soul, and said we got
to get.
We got to scalpel out thiswound of shame.
And he was the one that helpedher understand that God has
loved her from the beginning oftime and, you know, there was a
(06:31):
will for her life and it reallybegan to help her understand
that this little demon had to goand began to carve it out.
Um, and it was during COVID 2020when, um, when a lot of moat,
really, the worldwide churchkind of shut down, put a
moratorium on the sacraments,the mass, et cetera.
He, he stayed open for peoplelike my wife, krista, who he
(06:54):
knew were recovering in front ofthe monstrance, who were going
to daily mass, who wereundergoing intensive spiritual
direction, weekly confessions,you know, just in case there was
a fall, so she was healing.
The medicine was Christ and atleast for Krista it was.
And so, yeah, so, so that wasthat.
(07:14):
It was that year 2020, you know,one of the worst years of
American history.
That was one of our best yearsbecause Krista gave up, gave it
up.
Because Krista gave up, gave itup, gave up the alcohol.
And so she asked me when FatherFlume left a year later to
become a consecrated hermit.
So he left his normal life as apastor in the Archdiocese of
(07:39):
Washington to become a hermit.
She said, kevin, I'd like you towrite the book about what this
strong priest did for me duringCOVID, how he acted in
muscularity to not shut downBecause he knew people like me,
speaking of Krista and othersthat were suffering from old
(08:00):
wounds, old ghosts, addictions,whatever.
He stayed open for us.
He, he fathered us, he, he wasour, he was our shepherd, and uh
.
So I wrote the book.
And and last thing I'll sayhere, christy, is I thought that
the book was about, um, whatfather Flume did for Krista.
Um, but, but, um, when the bookwas published, um, in, the
(08:26):
people really from all over thecountry and even outside the
country began to get in touchwith me and, I guess, krista,
and say, yeah, your book's aboutmarriage and it's what a spouse
does.
(08:46):
You know, he carries thewounded spouse on his shoulder
and he climbs mountains and hegoes down valleys with his
spouse on his shoulder and henever quits the fight because he
loves his spouse and actuallythe love intensifies as the
wound grows deeper.
So I think the Holy Spirit, ina way, wrote this book, because
(09:07):
I, you know, I'm not asupernaturalist, I don't think,
but I've written five books andthis is the only book I've ever
written where I thought I wroteabout a priest and what he did
for my wife, but everyone elsesaid, nah, it's a book about
marriage.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Wow, that's such an incredible story, such an
inspiring story, but the firstthing I just want to say is wow,
and I believe that you werehealed, like Jesus still wants
to heal today, and it soundslike you were miraculously
healed with your brain surgery,or failed brain surgery, which
(09:43):
ended up not being so becauseChrist is like I'm not done with
you yet, and so you're here andyou're sharing this story and
many others, and so I just wantto honor that and say that that
is such a beautiful testamentand I'm glad that you shared
that aspect of your story.
The other thing that came up alot is that shame those wounds
(10:09):
and so many of the women that Iwork with.
You know I always say alcoholisn't necessarily the problem,
but it's what people use, whatwe use to try to solve a problem
, to try to heal wounds, to tryto, you know, quiet those voices
that are coming up andattacking us, that are trying to
(10:31):
help us cope with.
You know, we think if Iself-medicate whether it's a
mental illness or just stressand anxiety and those types of
things we use it so much as atool, and then it gets its claws
in us and that brings me to thesupernatural aspect of it,
because I really do feel andknow, and I have my own story of
(10:55):
being attacked while I was inmy addiction, probably at the
height of my addiction as welland so I really do feel that
alcohol is a spiritual attack.
It is called spirits for areason.
It is that counterfeit versionof the indwelling of the Holy
Spirit Because you know, whenyou see very charismatic people,
(11:17):
they can appear drunk.
It's in Acts 2, you know, likethese guys are drunk but they're
not.
It's the Holy Spirit, and soit's that intoxication of the
Spirit that we're sometimeslooking for.
But even more than that, as youwere explaining as well, like
with your wife's wounds, thedevil likes to poke our wounds
(11:40):
right.
He's like constantly poking atthem, attacking us there and
tempting us into our vice,tempting us into those things
that he knows will grab hold ofus and be strongholds and get us
.
And then the other part, lastthing you just said so many
(12:00):
great things, but the last thingis how it impacted your
marriage and when you weresaying that you were, you know
you were moving towards Christ.
You were doing all these things.
You're like I've got the secondchance and I'm going to do this
, this and this.
He was attacking her andattacking your marriage, because
that's what the enemy likes todo is attack marriages and break
(12:21):
up families and so that hecould do even worse damage.
But, thanks be to God, he didnot get that chance with you and
your family, and thank the Lordfor this.
Holy, holy, priest, and the factthat you are sharing this story
and, yes, I believe the HolySpirit was working in you and
(12:42):
through you, continues to do so,but definitely through writing.
Sometimes, when that happens,it's like you write something
and you're like, where did thatcome from?
And it's the Holy Spirit.
So thank you for all of that.
I really appreciate it.
I do want to ask you because Iwork with a lot of women and
(13:07):
many of them think that they'rehiding their drinking from their
husbands.
Not that their husbands thinkthat they don't drink at all,
but they're hiding the amountand frequency that they're
consuming, thinking that hedoesn't know, because probably
they don't want to worry theirhusbands.
And two, they're kind ofworried about what that's going
(13:30):
to mean.
And two, they're kind ofworried about what that's going
to mean.
So can you speak to that a?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
little bit for these women who are worried about what
their spouses will think andthe impact of hiding that and
that secrecy.
Yeah well, I would think toanswer that you could either
answer that granularly orbroadly.
So, granularly, if the spousewho believes that she may be or
he may be, but we'll just sayshe may be drinking too much, if
she knows that her husband is aman who loves her, who really
(14:11):
would take a bullet for her,who's not effeminate, who's not
emasculated, um, he doesn't care, uh, about anything other than
order and um, uh, things thatare functioning well.
A man likes to.
A man likes to look at thingsand say, oh, the, the engine
under this, the hood of the car,it's clicking and ticking well.
(14:32):
Or oh, this baseball game,there's no errors, it's a
perfect game, it's going well,everything's so.
A man just wants things to gowell.
So if his wife says you know,honey, I got to be honest with
you, I feel like you know, I'mprobably drinking too much.
Have you noticed what?
I'm probably drinking too much.
Have you noticed what I'm goingto say?
(14:53):
Here is two things.
One, I would venture to saythat 90% of men do know, but if
it's a good marriage, 100% ofthe men will say honey, I love
you.
What can I do?
What can we do together Becausewe are matrimonially one?
(15:13):
What can I do to be a soundingboard to find out why you think
you might be drinking too much,and let's hash this thing out
together.
So, but on the other spectrum,if the spouse feels like, well,
our marriage really isn't thatstrong and you know, I wish I
(15:35):
could tell him this he'sprobably going to judge me and
you know, tragically that's alsothe case.
But in that case you can alsouse it, I would think, in a
beautiful way where the spousemight say hey, honey, I'm
probably going to disappoint you, but I want to tell you anyway
because I love you, and maybesometimes I don't show you or
(15:56):
tell you or manifest my love foryou, but right now what I'm
going to share is the deepestamount of love that I can share
for you, because I'm going tosay something that's really
going to humble me, it's goingto humiliate me, but I love you,
honey, and I want to tell you,and I need your help.
So it works sort of in both wayswhether the marriage isn't
quite as healthy as it should be, or if the marriage is good,
(16:18):
because the spouse in themarriage that maybe isn't as
healthy as it should be, he'llfeel like a guy likes to dirty
little secret ladies, a guylikes to be pumped up, a guy
likes to be sort of uh, oh, my,my, my wife needs me.
You know, he's the Prince, he,he wants to help the damsel in
distress, especially if thedamsel in distress says honey,
help me so, and that sort ofmakes the marriage better, um,
(16:42):
or it should anyway.
So I guess what I'm saying hereis, um, where the spouse who
might be viewing this right now,who who might think yeah, you
know what I'm, I'm drinking toomuch, I'm going to, I'm going to
beg you, please approach yourhusband and and and cough it up,
you know, say, honey, this iswhat's going on and and I could
(17:03):
really use your help.
Can you, can we can, can wework together to, to to solve
this thing?
And um, so I, I just, I alwaysthink openness and candor is the
best thing for a marriage.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yes, yeah, that is also good, and I love those two
perspectives because that'sreally where it where it comes
from.
Either the husband's reallyready and raring to go and help
fight, or they might not quitebe in that space because maybe
they're struggling with theirown.
They might not quite be in thatspace because maybe they're
struggling with their own.
You know, maybe they're overdrinking as well, and that can
(17:35):
be another, just anotherobstacle, or they just don't
know how to help or, you know,are in that.
One of the things that does comeup, and I don't know how you
and your wife were before all ofthis, but some of the women
(17:56):
that I work with, they getreally worried because they feel
like and actually, kevin, a lotof this came up during COVID is
what I'm hearing Like theconnection time between husband
and wife was spent like having aglass of wine out on the deck
because they didn't haveanywhere to go, so they might
finish a bottle or two togetherthe deck, because they didn't
have anywhere to go, so theymight finish a bottle or two
together, and those types ofthings.
And now that once the worldopened up again, you know, it
(18:16):
was really hard to dial thatback and maybe their husbands
kind of were able to do that.
But they're still strugglingand they're worrying like how am
I going to connect with myhusband without that?
So if they're realizing likemoderation is not a thing I can
do or I'm going to have togreatly reduce it, they're going
(18:37):
to be wondering like how can Istill connect with my husband
without that?
Do you have any advice oranything to say about that?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, so yeah, covid was purely from in a
supernatural dimension.
It shot so much evil into theworld and I believe we can't
shake it Like sometimes, fromwhat I hear from friends, family
, from all over, I've heard justhorrendous stories since COVID
(19:09):
that are still going on today.
And sometimes I'll look up tothe blue skies and if I could
actually see spiritual warfaresometimes I think all I would
see up in the skies is blackflapping wings, because and I'll
go back to what I said earlier,I know this is off topic, but
(19:29):
when the church places amoratorium on the sacraments and
you can't even visit grandmaand have her anointed night,
well, satan's like.
Well, they're not even tryinganymore Go in and part of that
goes to husband and wife who areon that second bottle of red
wine, or well, we got nothingelse going on.
You know we can't, we can'tleave, and I don't want to go
(19:50):
out into a world of masks, solet's just have another bottle
of wine, so yeah, so you startthis habit and and uh, you know,
let's be honest, it's not aterrible habit and you feel like
you have a built-in excuse.
Well, honey, we can't doanything else, so let's have
another glass.
Um, so, all these years later,we know the masks are gone, we
(20:14):
know the, the, the mania is gone.
Well, again, I'm going to goback to sort of what I said
earlier.
Um, I would hope that, whetherit's the husband or the wife,
but in the case of of the wife,she would say hey, honey, you
know, uh, something happened in2020.
And and um, and, when I lookback and I pray on it and I
really sort of ponder that time.
We know that it was a crazytime in American history, but we
(20:36):
were impacted by it becausethat was when we really began to
drink more.
And I don't know if we've everstopped that habit.
And I'm asking you, honey, tostop it with me, because I don't
feel comfortable right now ofbeing intimate with you.
It with me, because I don't feelcomfortable right now of being
intimate with you.
I don't feel comfortable ofhaving, maybe vulnerable
conversations without that glassof wine, and that's not healthy
(20:59):
, because that's not how Godmade our marriage to be.
That's not his will for us.
God doesn't want wine to be ourcrutch.
God wants us to be open andvulnerable, with no crutches.
All he wants for us is to leanon him, not on alcohol.
So, again, I'll say it againvulnerability, openness and
honesty and candor, even inthose indelicate conversations.
(21:23):
Because I think the husband willsay you know what she's right.
You know, my conscience hasbeen telling me pretty much the
same thing, but I've ignored itbecause you know it's just
another glass of wine, but no,she's right.
So so thank you for leading mehere.
And let's just say the husbanddoesn't agree.
Let's say well, you know what,what's wrong with wine?
(21:45):
Well, still, if the wifebelieves she's drinking too much
, or she can't be intimate orit's a crutch, she should still
say well, honey, okay, Iunderstand that you don't see it
that way, but in great prayer,reflection and my conscience, I
just have to tell you I, I feelthis way about me.
Um, can we, can we just, canyou just ponder that, can you
(22:07):
just think?
I'm not telling you anythingelse, but but just just know
that this is real for me and andI think the husband will say
well, when he goes away orreflects on and thinks about it,
he's going to come back.
If he's a good man, he's goingto say, honey, I, yeah, let's,
let's work on this thing becauseI love you.
And if it's a concern to you,then it's a concern to me, so
(22:29):
let's work on this thingtogether.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, I 100% agree with everything that you said
and I think that's a really goodthing for the spouses to have
that conversation, that open,honest conversation, and then
for the wife to realize like,maybe he's not going to be 100%
on board, but you have to dowhat you you know to heal
yourself.
(22:53):
And then you never know, a lotof times, without lecturing,
without doing anything,sometimes your example is going
to rub off on our spouses.
That happens not just with, like, alcohol and other vices, but
that happens with faith too.
We see that a lot where a wifeor a husband is like constantly,
(23:15):
you know, doing the things thatthey need to do for themselves
and for their relationship withGod, and then all of a sudden
the spouse is like, hey, you'rea great person or you seem very
joyful or peaceful or whatever,and I want that, and so then
they kind of come alongside ofthem.
So we can't underestimate thepower of just making sure that
(23:35):
you are setting those boundariesand taking care of yourself,
because the Lord wants you free.
He doesn't want us livingattached to anything except Him
and trusting Him and relying onHim.
So I think that that's all veryhelpful information.
Now I have coached some womenwho have spouses like maybe
(23:58):
they're not struggling withalcohol, but their spouse is
struggling with alcohol.
So for those who feel powerlesswatching someone struggle with
addiction because that's whereyou were at what advice do you
have for those people, forremaining supportive while also
protecting themselves, their ownpeace, their own faith and
(24:21):
sometimes their own safety?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Well, safety is a different issue.
We'll kind of put that to theside for a second.
In the midst of it, and I hadto learn, because the first
three or four years I was tryingin different ways that were
unsuccessful, and that's myfault.
Like I thought that maybe morepenances and more fast and more
(24:47):
prayers or greater measures oflove or whatever would, would
sort of be the curative.
And I realized, well, that's,it's not working.
I mean, obviously it'sefficacious always to to do
those sort of Catholic heirlooms.
But what I began to realize was, um, I needed to really live
out two, two virtues thecardinal virtue of fortitude and
(25:10):
the theological virtue of faith.
So, um, if, if I believed thatgod, the, the power of the holy
spirit, was limitless and thatgod loved krista far more than I
could ever love her and hewanted her healed, um, far more
than I wanted her healed, thenthen if I said yes, then that's
(25:33):
faith.
But the thing I really neededto do in a practical way was
press on to persevere, andthat's fortitude.
So what does fortitude looklike on a daily basis for the
spouse who's not drinking?
It is nailing yourself to thehardwood of the cross and it is
loving as Jesus loved when hepoured himself out on Golgotha,
(25:56):
where Jesus essentially he hadno consolations.
He was naked in front of hismother, he was violently abused,
all his best friends left himexcept for John.
He was mocked, but still heloved.
So, in a similar way as heredeemed all of humanity by
(26:20):
taking to the hardwood of thecross, on a human level, I had
to try to love in the same way.
Where there was no maritalentitlements, where there was no
good stretches, where there wasno oh consolations, I had to
say well, jesus, you didn't haveit, and why should I expect it?
But maybe if I do it, try anddo it the way you did it, that
(26:43):
Kristen will be redeemed in thesame way you redeemed all of
humanity and you took away theirsins.
Well, I'm going to try and loveby pouring myself out,
expecting nothing in return.
So that's what I, that's what Idid.
Now, the thing that I coupledthat with was is I?
Um, I really learned at thattime to, I guess, would say, you
(27:06):
know the carmelites would callcontemplative prayer or
meditative prayer, where everymorning I'd get up very early
and light a candle and for halfhour minutes I would just sort
of rest my head, um, really likea little boy up against
Christ's heart, and just say,christ, you know it all.
Um, you know I'm suffering, youknow it's dark, you know I'm in
(27:28):
a we're in a desert here and Iworry about the kids and scared
to death about Krista and uh,but you know all this, so I
trust in you and, um, you'regoing to handle this.
Um, and I'm not going to sayanything else, and and um, and
when, like, a worry would comein, or anxiety, or maybe the
previous night was really bad,um, I would sort of beat off the
(27:51):
little demons, the little bats,and, uh, with just a refrain
just say, holy Spirit, rest onme, holy Spirit rest on me, holy
Spirit rest on me.
And so he'd beat back thedemons of doubt and anxiety, and
and, and you'd go back to rest,I would go back to resting my
head on his heart, and and.
So that's what I began to doevery day is just is, just know
(28:13):
that he loved me and I didn'tneed to speak to him about
anything because he knew it allanyway.
So that's what I would suggest.
Actually, that's what I wouldurge for your viewer right now
is, if you're suffering becauseof your spouse.
Love like Christ did from thecross with expecting nothing
(28:34):
except for one day.
Christ did from the cross withexpecting nothing except for one
day your spouse miraculouslybeing healed.
And number two, fall into adeeper dimension of prayer, and
I found that to be contemplativeprayer.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
That's beautiful.
Yeah, I was going to ask youwhat some of your spiritual
practices were, so I'm so gladthat you shared that.
And what a beautiful imagerythat you've just said about like
uniting your sufferings withChrist and again like talking
about like how he didn't haveany consolations and just like
(29:12):
being okay with that in this, inthis season.
So then that kind of leads meto when.
So I always tell people likedrinking is like just the start,
right, because stoppingdrinking is great and it's like
the most first important step.
But there's a lot of work to bedone like following that and
(29:34):
it's it can hard, it can bediscouraging sometimes, but it
can also be very joyful as well.
So when did that restoration ofyour relationship really begin,
or was it just happeningthroughout her recovery?
Speaker 2 (30:00):
throughout her recovery?
Good question so when I beganto see the light come back to
Krista's eyes was right around2018, when Father Flume began to
address the shame.
So she would still be sort ofsnapped back into the tomb of
shame every now and then, but Icould see that it was sporadic
and it wasn't like it used to be, where it was pretty constant.
Um, so I knew she was sort oflike lifting the lid of the tomb
(30:21):
little by little and coming outlike a little Lazarus and uh,
and the light of the eyes beganto come back.
Um, so I was almost like hercheerleader, like, hey, man,
let's go, let's go, and uh, uh.
And then 2020, obviously, when,um, when, finally, she just
gave it up, um, and I and Iencourage your, your viewer, to
(30:43):
read the hermit to see how thathappened, because it's, um, it's
supernatural how it happened.
I, I think, uh, a lot of peoplewho have gotten back to me about
the hermit, they talk about howkristaista did it.
It's, it's actually very.
They say they cry.
Everyone says they Kevin,that's, they say Kevin, I cried
a lot in your book, but that wasthe, that was the two Kleenex
box moment.
(31:03):
So there is, there is a.
There was sort of a miraclethat happened.
And, uh, and when that happened,um, you know we're off to the
races and you know it'shoneymoon time and so, yeah, god
, god is faithful.
God is always faithful, even inthe darkest, darkest, darkest
night.
God is faithful.
Or viewers right now that feellike they're in a cave and it's
(31:26):
dark and there is no answer,there's no hope.
When you surrender yourself toGod or at least when I surrender
myself to God in the darknessof that cave, there was always
(31:49):
this little pinhole of light,this little pinhole of light,
and that was hope.
And when I would walk towardthat pinhole of light, that was
the exit to the cave, and soprayer was the thing that would
always sort of keep me alive.
But anyway, so now, yeah, soit's been five years.
So, yeah, I don't know whatelse to say.
(32:11):
We're very happily married, theway God intended us to be, and
before my stinking brain surgery, so it's everything's good
again.
You know, we're very, we'revery happy right now.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Oh, praise be to God.
That's such a beautifultestimony.
So you and Krista were sofortunate to are blessed, really
to have such a holy priest, onethat even walked her through
her recovery during a time whenthe whole world shut down and
(32:43):
churches were closing and all ofthat madness.
But how do you see, or do youhave any thoughts on, maybe, how
church leaders or the church asa whole can support families
and individuals navigatingaddiction or of any sort?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Yeah, I think the church I'll be candid, I think
the church has done a terriblejob with addiction.
And yeah, I'd imagine, well,I'll just say it, I think every
(33:41):
parish in the United States ordiocese should have maybe not
every parish, but the dioceseshould have many parishes that
have equip parishioners, folkswith, you know, because you can
go to aa and therapy andcounselors.
But but this, this dimension ofspiritual help, where we know
god can get into that shame andscalpel it out, it's yeah, I, I
would just, uh, I wouldencourage again your viewer, um,
that might be suffering, to goto the pastor or priest in their
parish and say, look, this ishard for me to say, but I'm
(34:02):
suffering, I think I'm, can youhelp me here?
And I think more often than notI hate to say this but I'll be
honest Father will say I'm notequipped to do that.
Have you gone to AA or something?
Well, that's unacceptable,because Father is a shepherd of
souls and that soul is intravail, that soul has been
blackened by an addiction, asickness, and Father's not going
(34:25):
to be helpful there.
Then reach out to your chancery, your diocese, and ask for the
director of clergy personnel orthe parochial vicar to say hey,
(34:46):
can I help you start somethingfor people addicted to alcohol?
Because I need help right nowand I can't find it in the
church and I want it.
Father, what do I do?
Or, bishop, your eminence, whatdo I do?
Because I think we need this.
So I would press on and I wouldmake it an issue.
I'd be candid about it because,I'll say it again, I couldn't
(35:10):
find any help at that time.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
When I would go to priests, for the most part they
would say well, kevin, I'm sorryyou're going through this, but
have you sought a counselor?
(35:32):
Have you sought it?
I'm like, well, yeah, but I'mtalking to you now, I'm looking
at you, so I guess it's not muchof an answer, but that would
agree with that.
That's a lot of what I've seenas well, and like when I got
sober, aa was like the only gamein town other than rehab.
So it did, in a way, help withleading me toward Christ.
But it's such a they have tomeet everyone where they are
that they would say things likethat doorknob can be your higher
(35:56):
power, our group can be yourhigher, you know it.
So it's so diluted that it wasvery difficult and, as we've
talked about here, it is reallya spiritual ailment that we're
dealing with here, and so thosetypes of things that they give
us to help move us toward Christaren't always going to be so
(36:19):
helpful as Catholics, especiallybecause we have so much.
We just have a treasure troveof things and sacraments and
sacramentals and saints andcloud of witnesses at our
disposal that we can turn to,and it would be so beneficial if
(36:41):
the church did stand up andcreate something like that.
But of course, the church isvery burdened with a lot of
different things in our world atthis time.
So I guess we just have to keepspeaking out you and I and
others like us to talk about itand I know there's a lot of
other good priests, there'sCatholic in Recovery and things
(37:04):
like that and so we're all justtrying to make a dent in what we
can do and reach those soulsthat need the help.
So I appreciate you being hereso much, kevin, and sharing your
story, sharing Thank you toKrista for allowing you to share
her story too.
I mean, that is such a hugeblessing and it's such an
(37:27):
inspiration to you, know me andI'm sure everyone listening and
hearing your perspective as aspouse loving someone who is
struggling and how she walkedthrough recovery.
The book, the Hermit yes, Ihope everybody picks it up and
reads that.
So I just thank you for all ofthat.
(37:48):
But I'm sure my listeners aregoing to be wondering where do I
find out more about Kevin andhis story and his brain surgery
and like all the other things,because this is just like the
tip of the iceberg.
Like you have a lot of storiesto tell, so where can they find
you and where can they find thebook and anything else you want
them to know oh, thanks so much,christy, for putting the ball
(38:11):
in the tea.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Well, the book we're talking about is the hermit
right here, that's my prettywife right there, krista,
there's the ugly one right thereand there's the holy priest.
So there's the Hermit rightthere.
They can get that at Ignatius.
So it's published by IgnatiusPress, my favorite publisher.
So they're Ignatiuscom,ignatcom or, you know, amazon or
(38:37):
your local catholic bookstore.
It's actually selling fairlywell right now, I think, because
it touches, touches, uh, goesto the core of things.
Uh, it's pretty vulnerable, um,but as far as uh, you know, I,
I give a fair amount of talksand stuff you can.
You can find out where I'mspeaking at kevinwellsorg.
I've written um five books.
(38:59):
This is actually the hermit's,my favorite um.
You know, a dad's not supposedto have a favorite child, but
it's my favorite child and Ithink it's because it's so darn
raw and uh, and it was hard towrite.
I mean, it was very difficultto write for obvious, for
obvious reasons, the memoriesetc.
And um, and believe it or not.
So, christy, this your, yourviewer, might find this
(39:19):
interesting um, the writing ofthe book.
I didn't know it, but even whenI was, done the book, the
writing of the book gave me.
It was the first time I mourned, like as a dad and a husband.
I was always oh, I don't know,just trying to make things work
(39:40):
for the most part, but as ChrisChris is healed now and so I'm
writing the book and and finallyI could, sort of I had to go
back into those memories and Imourned, um, so a lot of the
writing is just mourning, um,but but I um, I mean it's not
like a oh, what was me?
But just sort of pouring outthings and uh, so anyway, yeah,
(40:01):
so, kevinwellsorg, and uh, justfor more books, more talks and
all that, and and I do a fairamount of writing articles and
stuff and so, yeah, so thank you, christy, for um, for allowing
me to share that.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Sure.
So before we close, do you justhave any words of encouragement
for those women who arelistening, who are realizing
that maybe alcohol is becoming aproblem for them?
They're noticing that it's, youknow.
They feel maybe some guilt andshame around how much they're
drinking, how they're hiding itfrom their husbands, and maybe
(40:37):
some next steps of things thatthey might be able to do?
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Sure, well, thank God , praise God, your conscience is
still clicking and ticking andit's still.
You know, I think John Newman.
St John Newman called theconscience the aboriginal vicar
of Christ, which means we havethis little vicar, we have a
little pope inside us that tellsus that that glass of wine,
(41:06):
again, that's too much.
So.
So, praise God for yourconscience alerting you to
something.
And after that, all we do, itreally, it's simple, it's all of
us are forced every day to makechoices.
So will you make the choice todo something hard and say I'm
going to take this on and kindof dig into my predominant fault
(41:29):
or this wound or whatever itmight be that's causing me that
I'm not, I really haven'taddressed, that's causing me to
take this second or third glassof wine or whatever the drink is
.
And then, and then the choiceto say it's, it's got to stop
and I need some help here.
So I'm going to share it withmy spouse, or I'm going to share
(41:51):
it with the best friend, or I'mgoing to share it with a priest
or whomever.
Because I think oftentimes,when we cough these things up,
we're like giving up the ghost,we're like spitting, we're
vomiting up the demon and itgets out of us because, finally,
we told somebody, and that'swhen the healing whether it's in
piecemeal fashion, it's kind ofslow, little by little, or
(42:14):
really it comes in a rush that'swhen the healing begins.
So so, yeah, apply, I would, Iwould recommend, oblige that
conscience of yours and, um, andmake the choice to do the hard
thing, take it on, um, tellsomebody and, and, and really
have that person say I need youto help me, I, I want to stop
(42:34):
this thing because I don't wantto.
I don't, I don't want to livethe next month or six months or
next five years doing this,because it's out of balance.
And I don't want to be out ofbalance, I want to, I want, I
want to be ordered, I want, Iwant to do things the way God
would have me do them.
So, yeah, I, I just make thechoice to do the hard thing and
begin to take it on, and thatfirst choice of taking it on, I
(42:57):
think, leads to so manybeautiful little, small
transformative changes.
So I guess that's myencouragement.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Thank you so much.
It's like shining the light onit helps it lose its power over
us.
So I thank you so much for thatand for being here.
And yeah, everybody check outhis Kevin's book, the Hermit.
And yeah, we'll just keep aneye out for other things that
are coming up from you and thankyou so much for being here.
(43:26):
Thank you, christy, it was agreat time of the Catholic
Sobriety Podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand I would invite you to share
it with a friend who might alsoget value from it as well, and
make sure you subscribe so youdon't miss a thing.
I am the Catholic SobrietyCoach and if you would like to
(43:50):
learn how to work with me orlearn more about the coaching
that I offer, visit my website,thecatholicsobrietycoachcom.
Follow me on Instagram at theCatholic Sobriety Coach.
I look forward to speaking toyou next time and remember I am
(44:11):
here for you.
I am praying for you.
You are not alone.
I am honored to introduce today's guest, kevin
Wells, a gifted author andinspiring storyteller who has
walked through incredible trialswith unwavering faith.
While Kevin himself is not thealcoholic, in his family's story
he witnessed the heartbreakingcause of his wife's descent into
(00:24):
addiction and stood by her sideas she fought her way to
sobriety.
Kevin brings a movingperspective to our conversation
today, offering insights intofaith, hope and the strength
that comes from walking withChrist through life's darkest
moments.
With Christ through life'sdarkest moments.
(00:44):
One of Kevin's most recent books, the Hermit the Priest who
Saved a Soul, a Marriage and aFamily started out as a story
about a priest rescuing a womanfrom the grips of alcoholism,
but evolved into an incredibletestament of how God restored a
marriage and healed a family.
(01:04):
This gripping, sometimesgut-wrenching work takes readers
to the darkest corners of humanstruggle and lifts them to
inspiring heights through theredemptive power of Christ.
Kevin's perspective is one ofhope, faith and resilience, and
I know his story will encourageand inspire you, and I can't
(01:28):
wait to dig into thisconversation.
So thank you so much for beinghere, kevin.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Oh, christy, it's great to be with you.
I love the podcasts that reallygo, that are untamed and raw
and really go there, so it's anhonor to be on your podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Well, it's an honor to have you here, so let's just
get to it.
The Hermit begins with a storyof a priest helping a woman your
wife through her journey towardsobriety, but it grows into
something so much deeper.
I would just love it if youcould just share that story.
I know it's probably a bigstory, so, and you can make it
(02:10):
more concise, but just shareabout it and the heart of this
transformation and how itimpacted you and your family.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Sure, well, well, christy, the, so the meat of it.
Well, what happened was thiswith, as far as my wife, krista,
and how she began to, um,secretly binge drink red wine?
Um, we had been married nineyears and I had brain surgery,
failed brain surgery and uh,wasn't supposed to survive.
And um, uh, some, some thingshappen in their ICU room after a
(02:44):
priest prayed over me andpraise God.
Many believe the priestbelieves, and others from what
they saw that I was healed bysomething not of this earth,
something supernatural.
And I got home and you know Iwasn't supposed to live.
So you would think it's time tokill the fatty calf.
Hey, kevin's still alive.
(03:06):
But what happened was this whenI came home a month later you
know brain surgery is seriousbusiness.
You know I had to relearn howto walk and talk and all that
kind of muddy mess of post-brainsurgery issues, post brain
(03:30):
surgery issues I began to reallystretch myself to try and live
for God alone.
As far as you know, I was closeto death.
You know I was this close andwhen you're considering, yeah,
I'm going to be pretty close tothe judgment seat soon.
And you know, I got a get outof jail free card.
And when I got home I'm likeGod, I want to give you
everything now.
I don't like how I felt, like Iwasn't quite set right for
(03:50):
judgment.
So I began to do all thosethings that a Catholic man would
do, or Catholic woman.
You know more.
You know daily mass, morerosaries, double rosaries,
prison ministry, all the thingsthat you would do.
And my poor wife, krista, um,she didn't know, I didn't know,
but it opened up, um, what shewould call a mother wound of
(04:14):
shame.
Um, when krista was a child,she wasn't quite loved the way,
um, you know you would.
You would hope a mom would lovea seven-year-old daughter and
um, so she, when she saw me sortof going places, she, I think,
would happen when she said Ican't go there or I don't feel
comfortable, or why is kevindoing this?
And to sort of eliminate thisshame, um, that came back 25
(04:39):
years later.
She began to uh, binge drinkred wine, so she covered over
the shame with that.
That's how she killed it andthat's when the dark night of
marriage opened up.
And you know, and I so, christy,I imagine you get into this a
little bit, but I've I've cometo believe that I don't know
about pornography or drugs orany kind of other addiction, but
(05:00):
I do know, with alcohol thatSatan is directly involved
because I watched my wifealcohol that Satan is directly
involved.
Um, because I, I watched mywife really become like a
different entity.
Um, she just wasn't, she wasn'tuh.
So, krista, if you know my wife, she's, she's got a gentle
nature, she's kind, she's kindof the quiet one, the giving one
.
But but I saw, and it wasn'tjust when she was drinking, it
(05:21):
didn't matter when it was, shewas just a different entity.
And I said, well, satan's,satan's got her pretty good
right now and and so, yeah, so,so kind of getting to the chase.
This went on for about seven oreight years.
It was obviously it's toughbecause we have three small kids
and you want a happy marriage,you want a happy home, and and
finally she met a holy priest I,I, I, she met a holy priest.
(05:44):
I know a lot of priests becauseI do a lot of writing and
written some books about priestsand I've gotten to know priests
from throughout the country andI don't know if we'll ever meet
another priest like FatherMartin Flume.
He's now a consecrated hermit.
He's given his life over to Godas a hermit, almost like the
Old Testament prophets.
He's like St Anthony of theDesert He'll never be seen again
(06:07):
on this side of earth.
But he was the one that finallyreally sort of took a spiral
staircase into her soul,christus soul, and said we got
to get.
We got to scalpel out thiswound of shame.
And he was the one that helpedher understand that God has
loved her from the beginning oftime and, you know, there was a
(06:31):
will for her life and it reallybegan to help her understand
that this little demon had to goand began to carve it out.
Um, and it was during COVID 2020when, um, when a lot of moat,
really, the worldwide churchkind of shut down, put a
moratorium on the sacraments,the mass, et cetera.
He, he stayed open for peoplelike my wife, krista, who he
(06:54):
knew were recovering in front ofthe monstrance, who were going
to daily mass, who wereundergoing intensive spiritual
direction, weekly confessions,you know, just in case there was
a fall, so she was healing.
The medicine was Christ and atleast for Krista it was.
And so, yeah, so, so that wasthat.
(07:14):
It was that year 2020, you know,one of the worst years of
American history.
That was one of our best yearsbecause Krista gave up, gave it
up.
Because Krista gave up, gave itup, gave up the alcohol.
And so she asked me when FatherFlume left a year later to
become a consecrated hermit.
So he left his normal life as apastor in the Archdiocese of
(07:39):
Washington to become a hermit.
She said, kevin, I'd like you towrite the book about what this
strong priest did for me duringCOVID, how he acted in
muscularity to not shut downBecause he knew people like me,
speaking of Krista and othersthat were suffering from old
(08:00):
wounds, old ghosts, addictions,whatever.
He stayed open for us.
He, he fathered us, he, he wasour, he was our shepherd, and uh
.
So I wrote the book.
And and last thing I'll sayhere, christy, is I thought that
the book was about, um, whatfather Flume did for Krista.
Um, but, but, um, when the bookwas published, um, in, the
(08:26):
people really from all over thecountry and even outside the
country began to get in touchwith me and, I guess, krista,
and say, yeah, your book's aboutmarriage and it's what a spouse
does.
(08:46):
You know, he carries thewounded spouse on his shoulder
and he climbs mountains and hegoes down valleys with his
spouse on his shoulder and henever quits the fight because he
loves his spouse and actuallythe love intensifies as the
wound grows deeper.
So I think the Holy Spirit, ina way, wrote this book, because
(09:07):
I, you know, I'm not asupernaturalist, I don't think,
but I've written five books andthis is the only book I've ever
written where I thought I wroteabout a priest and what he did
for my wife, but everyone elsesaid, nah, it's a book about
marriage.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Wow, that's such an incredible story, such an
inspiring story, but the firstthing I just want to say is wow,
and I believe that you werehealed, like Jesus still wants
to heal today, and it soundslike you were miraculously
healed with your brain surgery,or failed brain surgery, which
(09:43):
ended up not being so becauseChrist is like I'm not done with
you yet, and so you're here andyou're sharing this story and
many others, and so I just wantto honor that and say that that
is such a beautiful testamentand I'm glad that you shared
that aspect of your story.
The other thing that came up alot is that shame those wounds
(10:09):
and so many of the women that Iwork with.
You know I always say alcoholisn't necessarily the problem,
but it's what people use, whatwe use to try to solve a problem
, to try to heal wounds, to tryto, you know, quiet those voices
that are coming up andattacking us, that are trying to
(10:31):
help us cope with.
You know, we think if Iself-medicate whether it's a
mental illness or just stressand anxiety and those types of
things we use it so much as atool, and then it gets its claws
in us and that brings me to thesupernatural aspect of it,
because I really do feel andknow, and I have my own story of
(10:55):
being attacked while I was inmy addiction, probably at the
height of my addiction as welland so I really do feel that
alcohol is a spiritual attack.
It is called spirits for areason.
It is that counterfeit versionof the indwelling of the Holy
Spirit Because you know, whenyou see very charismatic people,
(11:17):
they can appear drunk.
It's in Acts 2, you know, likethese guys are drunk but they're
not.
It's the Holy Spirit, and soit's that intoxication of the
Spirit that we're sometimeslooking for.
But even more than that, as youwere explaining as well, like
with your wife's wounds, thedevil likes to poke our wounds
(11:40):
right.
He's like constantly poking atthem, attacking us there and
tempting us into our vice,tempting us into those things
that he knows will grab hold ofus and be strongholds and get us
.
And then the other part, lastthing you just said so many
(12:00):
great things, but the last thingis how it impacted your
marriage and when you weresaying that you were, you know
you were moving towards Christ.
You were doing all these things.
You're like I've got the secondchance and I'm going to do this
, this and this.
He was attacking her andattacking your marriage, because
that's what the enemy likes todo is attack marriages and break
(12:21):
up families and so that hecould do even worse damage.
But, thanks be to God, he didnot get that chance with you and
your family, and thank the Lordfor this.
Holy, holy, priest, and the factthat you are sharing this story
and, yes, I believe the HolySpirit was working in you and
(12:42):
through you, continues to do so,but definitely through writing.
Sometimes, when that happens,it's like you write something
and you're like, where did thatcome from?
And it's the Holy Spirit.
So thank you for all of that.
I really appreciate it.
I do want to ask you because Iwork with a lot of women and
(13:07):
many of them think that they'rehiding their drinking from their
husbands.
Not that their husbands thinkthat they don't drink at all,
but they're hiding the amountand frequency that they're
consuming, thinking that hedoesn't know, because probably
they don't want to worry theirhusbands.
And two, they're kind ofworried about what that's going
(13:30):
to mean.
And two, they're kind ofworried about what that's going
to mean.
So can you speak to that a?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
little bit for these women who are worried about what
their spouses will think andthe impact of hiding that and
that secrecy.
Yeah well, I would think toanswer that you could either
answer that granularly orbroadly.
So, granularly, if the spousewho believes that she may be or
he may be, but we'll just sayshe may be drinking too much, if
she knows that her husband is aman who loves her, who really
(14:11):
would take a bullet for her,who's not effeminate, who's not
emasculated, um, he doesn't care, uh, about anything other than
order and um, uh, things thatare functioning well.
A man likes to.
A man likes to look at thingsand say, oh, the, the engine
under this, the hood of the car,it's clicking and ticking well.
(14:32):
Or oh, this baseball game,there's no errors, it's a
perfect game, it's going well,everything's so.
A man just wants things to gowell.
So if his wife says you know,honey, I got to be honest with
you, I feel like you know, I'mprobably drinking too much.
Have you noticed what?
I'm probably drinking too much.
Have you noticed what I'm goingto say?
(14:53):
Here is two things.
One, I would venture to saythat 90% of men do know, but if
it's a good marriage, 100% ofthe men will say honey, I love
you.
What can I do?
What can we do together Becausewe are matrimonially one?
(15:13):
What can I do to be a soundingboard to find out why you think
you might be drinking too much,and let's hash this thing out
together.
So, but on the other spectrum,if the spouse feels like, well,
our marriage really isn't thatstrong and you know, I wish I
(15:35):
could tell him this he'sprobably going to judge me and
you know, tragically that's alsothe case.
But in that case you can alsouse it, I would think, in a
beautiful way where the spousemight say hey, honey, I'm
probably going to disappoint you, but I want to tell you anyway
because I love you, and maybesometimes I don't show you or
(15:56):
tell you or manifest my love foryou, but right now what I'm
going to share is the deepestamount of love that I can share
for you, because I'm going tosay something that's really
going to humble me, it's goingto humiliate me, but I love you,
honey, and I want to tell you,and I need your help.
So it works sort of in both wayswhether the marriage isn't
quite as healthy as it should be, or if the marriage is good,
(16:18):
because the spouse in themarriage that maybe isn't as
healthy as it should be, he'llfeel like a guy likes to dirty
little secret ladies, a guylikes to be pumped up, a guy
likes to be sort of uh, oh, my,my, my wife needs me.
You know, he's the Prince, he,he wants to help the damsel in
distress, especially if thedamsel in distress says honey,
help me so, and that sort ofmakes the marriage better, um,
(16:42):
or it should anyway.
So I guess what I'm saying hereis, um, where the spouse who
might be viewing this right now,who who might think yeah, you
know what I'm, I'm drinking toomuch, I'm going to, I'm going to
beg you, please approach yourhusband and and and cough it up,
you know, say, honey, this iswhat's going on and and I could
(17:03):
really use your help.
Can you, can we can, can wework together to, to to solve
this thing?
And um, so I, I just, I alwaysthink openness and candor is the
best thing for a marriage.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yes, yeah, that is also good, and I love those two
perspectives because that'sreally where it where it comes
from.
Either the husband's reallyready and raring to go and help
fight, or they might not quitebe in that space because maybe
they're struggling with theirown.
They might not quite be in thatspace because maybe they're
struggling with their own.
You know, maybe they're overdrinking as well, and that can
(17:35):
be another, just anotherobstacle, or they just don't
know how to help or, you know,are in that.
One of the things that does comeup, and I don't know how you
and your wife were before all ofthis, but some of the women
(17:56):
that I work with, they getreally worried because they feel
like and actually, kevin, a lotof this came up during COVID is
what I'm hearing Like theconnection time between husband
and wife was spent like having aglass of wine out on the deck
because they didn't haveanywhere to go, so they might
finish a bottle or two togetherthe deck, because they didn't
have anywhere to go, so theymight finish a bottle or two
together, and those types ofthings.
And now that once the worldopened up again, you know, it
(18:16):
was really hard to dial thatback and maybe their husbands
kind of were able to do that.
But they're still strugglingand they're worrying like how am
I going to connect with myhusband without that?
So if they're realizing likemoderation is not a thing I can
do or I'm going to have togreatly reduce it, they're going
(18:37):
to be wondering like how can Istill connect with my husband
without that?
Do you have any advice oranything to say about that?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, so yeah, covid was purely from in a
supernatural dimension.
It shot so much evil into theworld and I believe we can't
shake it Like sometimes, fromwhat I hear from friends, family
, from all over, I've heard justhorrendous stories since COVID
(19:09):
that are still going on today.
And sometimes I'll look up tothe blue skies and if I could
actually see spiritual warfaresometimes I think all I would
see up in the skies is blackflapping wings, because and I'll
go back to what I said earlier,I know this is off topic, but
(19:29):
when the church places amoratorium on the sacraments and
you can't even visit grandmaand have her anointed night,
well, satan's like.
Well, they're not even tryinganymore Go in and part of that
goes to husband and wife who areon that second bottle of red
wine, or well, we got nothingelse going on.
You know we can't, we can'tleave, and I don't want to go
(19:50):
out into a world of masks, solet's just have another bottle
of wine, so yeah, so you startthis habit and and uh, you know,
let's be honest, it's not aterrible habit and you feel like
you have a built-in excuse.
Well, honey, we can't doanything else, so let's have
another glass.
Um, so, all these years later,we know the masks are gone, we
(20:14):
know the, the, the mania is gone.
Well, again, I'm going to goback to sort of what I said
earlier.
Um, I would hope that, whetherit's the husband or the wife,
but in the case of of the wife,she would say hey, honey, you
know, uh, something happened in2020.
And and um, and, when I lookback and I pray on it and I
really sort of ponder that time.
We know that it was a crazytime in American history, but we
(20:36):
were impacted by it becausethat was when we really began to
drink more.
And I don't know if we've everstopped that habit.
And I'm asking you, honey, tostop it with me, because I don't
feel comfortable right now ofbeing intimate with you.
It with me, because I don't feelcomfortable right now of being
intimate with you.
I don't feel comfortable ofhaving, maybe vulnerable
conversations without that glassof wine, and that's not healthy
(20:59):
, because that's not how Godmade our marriage to be.
That's not his will for us.
God doesn't want wine to be ourcrutch.
God wants us to be open andvulnerable, with no crutches.
All he wants for us is to leanon him, not on alcohol.
So, again, I'll say it againvulnerability, openness and
honesty and candor, even inthose indelicate conversations.
(21:23):
Because I think the husband willsay you know what she's right.
You know, my conscience hasbeen telling me pretty much the
same thing, but I've ignored itbecause you know it's just
another glass of wine, but no,she's right.
So so thank you for leading mehere.
And let's just say the husbanddoesn't agree.
Let's say well, you know what,what's wrong with wine?
(21:45):
Well, still, if the wifebelieves she's drinking too much
, or she can't be intimate orit's a crutch, she should still
say well, honey, okay, Iunderstand that you don't see it
that way, but in great prayer,reflection and my conscience, I
just have to tell you I, I feelthis way about me.
Um, can we, can we just, canyou just ponder that, can you
(22:07):
just think?
I'm not telling you anythingelse, but but just just know
that this is real for me and andI think the husband will say
well, when he goes away orreflects on and thinks about it,
he's going to come back.
If he's a good man, he's goingto say, honey, I, yeah, let's,
let's work on this thing becauseI love you.
And if it's a concern to you,then it's a concern to me, so
(22:29):
let's work on this thingtogether.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, I 100% agree with everything that you said
and I think that's a really goodthing for the spouses to have
that conversation, that open,honest conversation, and then
for the wife to realize like,maybe he's not going to be 100%
on board, but you have to dowhat you you know to heal
yourself.
(22:53):
And then you never know, a lotof times, without lecturing,
without doing anything,sometimes your example is going
to rub off on our spouses.
That happens not just with, like, alcohol and other vices, but
that happens with faith too.
We see that a lot where a wifeor a husband is like constantly,
(23:15):
you know, doing the things thatthey need to do for themselves
and for their relationship withGod, and then all of a sudden
the spouse is like, hey, you'rea great person or you seem very
joyful or peaceful or whatever,and I want that, and so then
they kind of come alongside ofthem.
So we can't underestimate thepower of just making sure that
(23:35):
you are setting those boundariesand taking care of yourself,
because the Lord wants you free.
He doesn't want us livingattached to anything except Him
and trusting Him and relying onHim.
So I think that that's all veryhelpful information.
Now I have coached some womenwho have spouses like maybe
(23:58):
they're not struggling withalcohol, but their spouse is
struggling with alcohol.
So for those who feel powerlesswatching someone struggle with
addiction because that's whereyou were at what advice do you
have for those people, forremaining supportive while also
protecting themselves, their ownpeace, their own faith and
(24:21):
sometimes their own safety?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Well, safety is a different issue.
We'll kind of put that to theside for a second.
In the midst of it, and I hadto learn, because the first
three or four years I was tryingin different ways that were
unsuccessful, and that's myfault.
Like I thought that maybe morepenances and more fast and more
(24:47):
prayers or greater measures oflove or whatever would, would
sort of be the curative.
And I realized, well, that's,it's not working.
I mean, obviously it'sefficacious always to to do
those sort of Catholic heirlooms.
But what I began to realize was, um, I needed to really live
out two, two virtues thecardinal virtue of fortitude and
(25:10):
the theological virtue of faith.
So, um, if, if I believed thatgod, the, the power of the holy
spirit, was limitless and thatgod loved krista far more than I
could ever love her and hewanted her healed, um, far more
than I wanted her healed, thenthen if I said yes, then that's
(25:33):
faith.
But the thing I really neededto do in a practical way was
press on to persevere, andthat's fortitude.
So what does fortitude looklike on a daily basis for the
spouse who's not drinking?
It is nailing yourself to thehardwood of the cross and it is
loving as Jesus loved when hepoured himself out on Golgotha,
(25:56):
where Jesus essentially he hadno consolations.
He was naked in front of hismother, he was violently abused,
all his best friends left himexcept for John.
He was mocked, but still heloved.
So, in a similar way as heredeemed all of humanity by
(26:20):
taking to the hardwood of thecross, on a human level, I had
to try to love in the same way.
Where there was no maritalentitlements, where there was no
good stretches, where there wasno oh consolations, I had to
say well, jesus, you didn't haveit, and why should I expect it?
But maybe if I do it, try anddo it the way you did it, that
(26:43):
Kristen will be redeemed in thesame way you redeemed all of
humanity and you took away theirsins.
Well, I'm going to try and loveby pouring myself out,
expecting nothing in return.
So that's what I, that's what Idid.
Now, the thing that I coupledthat with was is I?
Um, I really learned at thattime to, I guess, would say, you
(27:06):
know the carmelites would callcontemplative prayer or
meditative prayer, where everymorning I'd get up very early
and light a candle and for halfhour minutes I would just sort
of rest my head, um, really likea little boy up against
Christ's heart, and just say,christ, you know it all.
Um, you know I'm suffering, youknow it's dark, you know I'm in
(27:28):
a we're in a desert here and Iworry about the kids and scared
to death about Krista and uh,but you know all this, so I
trust in you and, um, you'regoing to handle this.
Um, and I'm not going to sayanything else, and and um, and
when, like, a worry would comein, or anxiety, or maybe the
previous night was really bad,um, I would sort of beat off the
(27:51):
little demons, the little bats,and, uh, with just a refrain
just say, holy Spirit, rest onme, holy Spirit rest on me, holy
Spirit rest on me.
And so he'd beat back thedemons of doubt and anxiety, and
and, and you'd go back to rest,I would go back to resting my
head on his heart, and and.
So that's what I began to doevery day is just is, just know
(28:13):
that he loved me and I didn'tneed to speak to him about
anything because he knew it allanyway.
So that's what I would suggest.
Actually, that's what I wouldurge for your viewer right now
is, if you're suffering becauseof your spouse.
Love like Christ did from thecross with expecting nothing
(28:34):
except for one day.
Christ did from the cross withexpecting nothing except for one
day your spouse miraculouslybeing healed.
And number two, fall into adeeper dimension of prayer, and
I found that to be contemplativeprayer.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
That's beautiful.
Yeah, I was going to ask youwhat some of your spiritual
practices were, so I'm so gladthat you shared that.
And what a beautiful imagerythat you've just said about like
uniting your sufferings withChrist and again like talking
about like how he didn't haveany consolations and just like
(29:12):
being okay with that in this, inthis season.
So then that kind of leads meto when.
So I always tell people likedrinking is like just the start,
right, because stoppingdrinking is great and it's like
the most first important step.
But there's a lot of work to bedone like following that and
(29:34):
it's it can hard, it can bediscouraging sometimes, but it
can also be very joyful as well.
So when did that restoration ofyour relationship really begin,
or was it just happeningthroughout her recovery?
Speaker 2 (30:00):
throughout her recovery?
Good question so when I beganto see the light come back to
Krista's eyes was right around2018, when Father Flume began to
address the shame.
So she would still be sort ofsnapped back into the tomb of
shame every now and then, but Icould see that it was sporadic
and it wasn't like it used to be, where it was pretty constant.
Um, so I knew she was sort oflike lifting the lid of the tomb
(30:21):
little by little and coming outlike a little Lazarus and uh,
and the light of the eyes beganto come back.
Um, so I was almost like hercheerleader, like, hey, man,
let's go, let's go, and uh, uh.
And then 2020, obviously, when,um, when, finally, she just
gave it up, um, and I and Iencourage your, your viewer, to
(30:43):
read the hermit to see how thathappened, because it's, um, it's
supernatural how it happened.
I, I think, uh, a lot of peoplewho have gotten back to me about
the hermit, they talk about howkristaista did it.
It's, it's actually very.
They say they cry.
Everyone says they Kevin,that's, they say Kevin, I cried
a lot in your book, but that wasthe, that was the two Kleenex
box moment.
(31:03):
So there is, there is a.
There was sort of a miraclethat happened.
And, uh, and when that happened,um, you know we're off to the
races and you know it'shoneymoon time and so, yeah, god
, god is faithful.
God is always faithful, even inthe darkest, darkest, darkest
night.
God is faithful.
Or viewers right now that feellike they're in a cave and it's
(31:26):
dark and there is no answer,there's no hope.
When you surrender yourself toGod or at least when I surrender
myself to God in the darknessof that cave, there was always
(31:49):
this little pinhole of light,this little pinhole of light,
and that was hope.
And when I would walk towardthat pinhole of light, that was
the exit to the cave, and soprayer was the thing that would
always sort of keep me alive.
But anyway, so now, yeah, soit's been five years.
So, yeah, I don't know whatelse to say.
(32:11):
We're very happily married, theway God intended us to be, and
before my stinking brain surgery, so it's everything's good
again.
You know, we're very, we'revery happy right now.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Oh, praise be to God.
That's such a beautifultestimony.
So you and Krista were sofortunate to are blessed, really
to have such a holy priest, onethat even walked her through
her recovery during a time whenthe whole world shut down and
(32:43):
churches were closing and all ofthat madness.
But how do you see, or do youhave any thoughts on, maybe, how
church leaders or the church asa whole can support families
and individuals navigatingaddiction or of any sort?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Yeah, I think the church I'll be candid, I think
the church has done a terriblejob with addiction.
And yeah, I'd imagine, well,I'll just say it, I think every
(33:41):
parish in the United States ordiocese should have maybe not
every parish, but the dioceseshould have many parishes that
have equip parishioners, folkswith, you know, because you can
go to aa and therapy andcounselors.
But but this, this dimension ofspiritual help, where we know
god can get into that shame andscalpel it out, it's yeah, I, I
would just, uh, I wouldencourage again your viewer, um,
that might be suffering, to goto the pastor or priest in their
parish and say, look, this ishard for me to say, but I'm
(34:02):
suffering, I think I'm, can youhelp me here?
And I think more often than notI hate to say this but I'll be
honest Father will say I'm notequipped to do that.
Have you gone to AA or something?
Well, that's unacceptable,because Father is a shepherd of
souls and that soul is intravail, that soul has been
blackened by an addiction, asickness, and Father's not going
(34:25):
to be helpful there.
Then reach out to your chancery, your diocese, and ask for the
director of clergy personnel orthe parochial vicar to say hey,
(34:46):
can I help you start somethingfor people addicted to alcohol?
Because I need help right nowand I can't find it in the
church and I want it.
Father, what do I do?
Or, bishop, your eminence, whatdo I do?
Because I think we need this.
So I would press on and I wouldmake it an issue.
I'd be candid about it because,I'll say it again, I couldn't
(35:10):
find any help at that time.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
When I would go to priests, for the most part they
would say well, kevin, I'm sorryyou're going through this, but
have you sought a counselor?
(35:32):
Have you sought it?
I'm like, well, yeah, but I'mtalking to you now, I'm looking
at you, so I guess it's not muchof an answer, but that would
agree with that.
That's a lot of what I've seenas well, and like when I got
sober, aa was like the only gamein town other than rehab.
So it did, in a way, help withleading me toward Christ.
But it's such a they have tomeet everyone where they are
that they would say things likethat doorknob can be your higher
(35:56):
power, our group can be yourhigher, you know it.
So it's so diluted that it wasvery difficult and, as we've
talked about here, it is reallya spiritual ailment that we're
dealing with here, and so thosetypes of things that they give
us to help move us toward Christaren't always going to be so
(36:19):
helpful as Catholics, especiallybecause we have so much.
We just have a treasure troveof things and sacraments and
sacramentals and saints andcloud of witnesses at our
disposal that we can turn to,and it would be so beneficial if
(36:41):
the church did stand up andcreate something like that.
But of course, the church isvery burdened with a lot of
different things in our world atthis time.
So I guess we just have to keepspeaking out you and I and
others like us to talk about itand I know there's a lot of
other good priests, there'sCatholic in Recovery and things
(37:04):
like that and so we're all justtrying to make a dent in what we
can do and reach those soulsthat need the help.
So I appreciate you being hereso much, kevin, and sharing your
story, sharing Thank you toKrista for allowing you to share
her story too.
I mean, that is such a hugeblessing and it's such an
(37:27):
inspiration to you, know me andI'm sure everyone listening and
hearing your perspective as aspouse loving someone who is
struggling and how she walkedthrough recovery.
The book, the Hermit yes, Ihope everybody picks it up and
reads that.
So I just thank you for all ofthat.
(37:48):
But I'm sure my listeners aregoing to be wondering where do I
find out more about Kevin andhis story and his brain surgery
and like all the other things,because this is just like the
tip of the iceberg.
Like you have a lot of storiesto tell, so where can they find
you and where can they find thebook and anything else you want
them to know oh, thanks so much,christy, for putting the ball
(38:11):
in the tea.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Well, the book we're talking about is the hermit
right here, that's my prettywife right there, krista,
there's the ugly one right thereand there's the holy priest.
So there's the Hermit rightthere.
They can get that at Ignatius.
So it's published by IgnatiusPress, my favorite publisher.
So they're Ignatiuscom,ignatcom or, you know, amazon or
(38:37):
your local catholic bookstore.
It's actually selling fairlywell right now, I think, because
it touches, touches, uh, goesto the core of things.
Uh, it's pretty vulnerable, um,but as far as uh, you know, I,
I give a fair amount of talksand stuff you can.
You can find out where I'mspeaking at kevinwellsorg.
I've written um five books.
(38:59):
This is actually the hermit's,my favorite um.
You know, a dad's not supposedto have a favorite child, but
it's my favorite child and Ithink it's because it's so darn
raw and uh, and it was hard towrite.
I mean, it was very difficultto write for obvious, for
obvious reasons, the memoriesetc.
And um, and believe it or not.
So, christy, this your, yourviewer, might find this
(39:19):
interesting um, the writing ofthe book.
I didn't know it, but even whenI was, done the book, the
writing of the book gave me.
It was the first time I mourned, like as a dad and a husband.
I was always oh, I don't know,just trying to make things work
(39:40):
for the most part, but as ChrisChris is healed now and so I'm
writing the book and and finallyI could, sort of I had to go
back into those memories and Imourned, um, so a lot of the
writing is just mourning, um,but but I um, I mean it's not
like a oh, what was me?
But just sort of pouring outthings and uh, so anyway, yeah,
(40:01):
so, kevinwellsorg, and uh, justfor more books, more talks and
all that, and and I do a fairamount of writing articles and
stuff and so, yeah, so thank you, christy, for um, for allowing
me to share that.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Sure.
So before we close, do you justhave any words of encouragement
for those women who arelistening, who are realizing
that maybe alcohol is becoming aproblem for them?
They're noticing that it's, youknow.
They feel maybe some guilt andshame around how much they're
drinking, how they're hiding itfrom their husbands, and maybe
(40:37):
some next steps of things thatthey might be able to do?
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Sure, well, thank God , praise God, your conscience is
still clicking and ticking andit's still.
You know, I think John Newman.
St John Newman called theconscience the aboriginal vicar
of Christ, which means we havethis little vicar, we have a
little pope inside us that tellsus that that glass of wine,
(41:06):
again, that's too much.
So.
So, praise God for yourconscience alerting you to
something.
And after that, all we do, itreally, it's simple, it's all of
us are forced every day to makechoices.
So will you make the choice todo something hard and say I'm
going to take this on and kindof dig into my predominant fault
(41:29):
or this wound or whatever itmight be that's causing me that
I'm not, I really haven'taddressed, that's causing me to
take this second or third glassof wine or whatever the drink is
.
And then, and then the choiceto say it's, it's got to stop
and I need some help here.
So I'm going to share it withmy spouse, or I'm going to share
(41:51):
it with the best friend, or I'mgoing to share it with a priest
or whomever.
Because I think oftentimes,when we cough these things up,
we're like giving up the ghost,we're like spitting, we're
vomiting up the demon and itgets out of us because, finally,
we told somebody, and that'swhen the healing whether it's in
piecemeal fashion, it's kind ofslow, little by little, or
(42:14):
really it comes in a rush that'swhen the healing begins.
So so, yeah, apply, I would, Iwould recommend, oblige that
conscience of yours and, um, andmake the choice to do the hard
thing, take it on, um, tellsomebody and, and, and really
have that person say I need youto help me, I, I want to stop
(42:34):
this thing because I don't wantto.
I don't, I don't want to livethe next month or six months or
next five years doing this,because it's out of balance.
And I don't want to be out ofbalance, I want to, I want, I
want to be ordered, I want, Iwant to do things the way God
would have me do them.
So, yeah, I, I just make thechoice to do the hard thing and
begin to take it on, and thatfirst choice of taking it on, I
(42:57):
think, leads to so manybeautiful little, small
transformative changes.
So I guess that's myencouragement.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Thank you so much.
It's like shining the light onit helps it lose its power over
us.
So I thank you so much for thatand for being here.
And yeah, everybody check outhis Kevin's book, the Hermit.
And yeah, we'll just keep aneye out for other things that
are coming up from you and thankyou so much for being here.
(43:26):
Thank you, christy, it was agreat time of the Catholic
Sobriety Podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand I would invite you to share
it with a friend who might alsoget value from it as well, and
make sure you subscribe so youdon't miss a thing.
I am the Catholic SobrietyCoach and if you would like to
(43:50):
learn how to work with me orlearn more about the coaching
that I offer, visit my website,thecatholicsobrietycoachcom.
Follow me on Instagram at theCatholic Sobriety Coach.
I look forward to speaking toyou next time and remember I am
(44:11):
here for you.
I am praying for you.
You are not alone.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!