June 23, 2025 • 49 mins
After nearly 28 years of sobriety and countless inquiries, I'm finally sharing my honest thoughts about Alcoholics Anonymous. This deeply personal episode explores why, as a Catholic woman, I ultimately needed something beyond what AA could provide.
AA gave me structure, language, and community when I desperately needed it. God used it to guide me toward sobriety when I had nowhere else to turn, and for that, I'll always be profoundly grateful. Yet as my faith deepened, I began noticing disconnects that I couldn't ignore – the vague "higher power" language, the continuous self-identification as "an alcoholic," and the repetition of powerlessness that eventually wore on my spirit.
This isn't about choosing sides or claiming one path is universally better than another. There are thousands of ways to recover from addiction - and the best one, is the one that works for YOU!
AA serves vital purposes for countless people. But if you've felt uncomfortable or questioned whether there's room for your Catholic faith in your recovery journey, you're not alone. Asking these questions isn't a betrayal – it might be the Holy Spirit inviting you into something deeper, more aligned with who God created you to be.
Visit thecatholicsobrietycoach.com to learn more about faith-centered approaches to sobriety or connect on Instagram @thecatholicsobrietycoach to continue this important conversation.
Resources:
Sister Ignatia: The Nun behind Alcoholics Anonymous:
https://aleteia.org/2017/09/22/sister-ignatia-the-catholic-nun-behind-alcoholics-anonymous/
Deliriants and Spirituality: AA Founder Bill Wilson’s Path to Sobriety
https://www.samwoolfe.com/2024/03/aa-founder-bill-wilson-psychedelic-sober.html
Alcoholics Anonymous has it origins in the occult
https://carm.org/alcoholics-anonymous/alcoholics-anonymous-and-the-occult/
Want to feel more present, less anxious, and more in control?
Then join me for the Sober-ish Summer Challenge: Take Alcohol or Leave it With Peace
This 62-day Sober-ish summer challenge for Catholic women helps you drink less and live more—with faith and support.
Things kick-off on July 1st! https://courses.drinklessornotatall.com/courses/soberishsummer62
I'm here for you. I'm praying for you. You are NOT alone!
Please subscribe to this podcast so you won't miss a thing!
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Catholic Sobriety Podcast, the
go-to resource for women seekingto have a deeper understanding
of the role alcohol plays intheir lives, women who are
looking to drink less or not atall for any reason.
I am your host, christi Walker.
I'm a wife, mom and ajoy-filled Catholic, and I am
(00:22):
the Catholic Sobriety Coach, andI am so glad you're here.
Hey friends, welcome back tothe show.
Today's episode is one thatI've sat on for a very long time
like months, honestly, probablylonger.
It's probably been more liketwo years, probably longer.
(00:47):
It's probably been more liketwo years that I've been
thinking about recording it.
I've outlined it, I've actuallysat down and recorded it and
scrapped it and completelytalked myself out of it.
So this is something that isvery important to me that I get
right and I approach it in theright way, with the right
(01:10):
intentions, and that is what I'mhoping to do today.
So why has it taken me so long?
It doesn't seem like such a bigdeal to be able to share my
experience with AlcoholicsAnonymous, but I know that this
episode is likely going to hit anerve with some people.
I do know how personal recoveryis, and I also know how deeply
(01:36):
loved AA is by so many,including people I respect and
care about.
And hey, I have a lot of lovefor AA as well, because it was
the thing that guided me towardsobriety.
I mean, obviously, god first,but he used AA to help me change
(02:00):
my mindset and it kickstartednot just my sobriety and
personal journey, but my faithjourney as well.
So know that this is not an AABash session.
I just need to say that clearlyup front.
But, that said, this will alsonot be a glowing endorsement of
it either.
This will also not be a glowingendorsement of it either.
(02:24):
This is based on my experiencewhat AA gave me, where it helped
me survive and, mostimportantly, why.
As a Catholic woman, Iultimately found myself needing
something different, somethingdeeper, something more
spiritually aligned with who Iam and who I was becoming, and
(02:56):
at the time, I could not havearticulated that to you, but
looking back, I see how the HolySpirit was just stirring in me,
guiding me, and ultimately ledme away from AA when the time
was right, and that's when Istarted my slow trek back home
to the Catholic Church, which isanother story that we're not
going to get into today.
(03:17):
And I want to share this, notbecause I think everyone needs
to follow my path, but because Iget asked about my thoughts and
experience.
Quite often, people ask me whyI don't talk about it very much,
and the honest answer is I'vebeen afraid of how it would be
received.
I've been hesitant because Ididn't want to seem ungrateful
(03:39):
or divisive, but at the sametime, I want to be honest and
transparent because there arewomen out there who are feeling
what I felt and they need toknow that they are not crazy for
wanting something morespiritually rooted.
This is really my motivationnow for wanting to share this
(04:04):
information Now.
I would never, ever tellsomeone not to go to AA if
that's what they are desiring,or to leave AA if they were
finding it helpful.
I am creating this podcast sothat other Catholics have the
information that I wish I hadknown before I went to AA.
(04:29):
I probably still would havegone to AA, but this information
or this knowledge could havesaved me a lot of grief and
would have at least helped me beaware of what to expect or
aware of why AlcoholicsAnonymous does certain things.
(04:52):
Now I'm not here to in any waysay that AA needs to change
anything.
I'm not saying that they needto be more Catholic, friendly or
anything like that.
Aa is what it is.
It's this long timeorganization.
They have their 12 steps andtheir 12 traditions and their
(05:16):
big book and I'll get to alittle bit more about that later
in the episode but they havethis established.
It is working.
It works for so many peopleprobably millions of people and
I'm not here to say they need tochange that.
I'm just here to give youinformation so that if you are
(05:37):
in AA and you're feeling alittle like maybe it's not
jiving with you anymore, maybeyou're feeling like you need
something more or somethingdifferent, I just want to let
you know why that might be, whyyou might be feeling that, and
that it's okay that you'refeeling that, because when I was
(06:00):
in Alcoholics Anonymous, when Iwas having these feelings, I
was basically told, like, if youleave, then you're just going
to go back out drinking.
You're a dry drunk, you're this, you're that, like all these
things, even though I wasn'teven drinking.
This again, is my experiencefrom my home group and the
people that I encountered.
(06:21):
I'm not saying that this iseverywhere, but I am saying that
from a lot of people that I'vetalked to.
We definitely have experiencedsome similar things, so those
similar things are what I'mgoing to focus on.
I'm not going to focus on, likethe other little things that
(06:41):
happened.
Okay, hopefully that makessense.
So first I want to talk aboutwhat AA gave me.
When I was first trying to getsober, aa was really the only
game in town.
It gave me structure, it gaveme a language to understand what
I was going through and, maybemost importantly, it gave me a
(07:04):
community, because that isduring a time that I had to let
go of my friends because theyall drink alcohol.
I had to let go of my habits,which were to go to bars and go
line dancing, which I love to do.
I couldn't do that anymore andI didn't really know what to do
with myself, because that'salways what I did.
(07:24):
And then I also had to just letgo of being comfortable.
Now, I wasn't comfortable.
As an overdrinker, alcoholic,alcohol use disorder, whatever
you want to call it, I was notcomfortable.
But alcohol did keep mecomfortably, as the Pink Floyd
(07:47):
song says.
So when I started to feel shame, when I started to feel bad
about myself or whatever, Icould always turn to my toxic
best friend, alcohol, to lift meup.
But I didn't have that comfortanymore, so I had to get
uncomfortable and be comfortablewith doing that.
So that is where AA came in,because for a season it carried
(08:11):
me, and I will never dismissthat.
I was raw, I was desperate andI truly believe that it was
God's providence that used AA tocarry me through that season
and again I just really want tohonor that.
But even in those early days,before I had fully returned to
(08:34):
my Catholic faith, there werethings that just didn't sit
quite right with me theopened-ended spirituality and
the idea of God as youunderstood him, the repetition
of the word powerless it justall was a lot for me and quite
honestly, it was confusingbecause in the meetings that I
(08:58):
was in and I'm not saying thisis at all meetings, but in my
home group, and I actually endedup having two different home
groups I was always told not totalk about God.
So when I told my story of howI went to my first meeting and I
was sitting in the car and Ididn't want to come in and I
(09:22):
felt like God literally carriedme into that meeting, and when I
would talk about God as Iunderstood him, mind you, I was
told that I talked too muchabout God and, honestly, I
wasn't trying to proselytizeanyone or anything at all.
Again, I was a very nominalCatholic at that time.
(09:46):
I was still really growing inmy faith and trying to figure
things out, but I was shut downso often and it was very
confusing because to me,alcoholics Anonymous seemed like
a very faith-based group.
If you look at the 12 steps and12 traditions and even how they
(10:09):
talk about the big book, it'sall very Christian and so I
actually I just want to exploresomething that's a little
outside the box but could berelevant in helping you
understand AA culture if you'venever been part of it, and its
role in recovery.
So, specifically, I want tocompare the ways that Alcoholics
(10:34):
Anonymous treats itsfoundational elements with the
big book, the 12 steps and the12 traditions, parallel to what
we find in Christian churches,right, christian denominations,
catholic, whether you'reCatholic or Protestant,
evangelical, whatever.
There's some parallels ofAlcoholics Anonymous and
(10:59):
religion, and the reason why Iwant to talk a little bit about
this is to show that it can bevery confusing, like I know a
lot of people who well, I can'tsay a lot of people.
I know that there are a lot ofpeople.
I don't personally know a lotof people, but I know some
people who actually treatAlcoholics Anonymous as their
(11:23):
church.
It is their religion prettymuch and it's what they devote
everything to, and I think someof that, even though I think the
12 Steps, 12 Traditions and theBig Book are great, I think
it's so closely based onChristian principles, like in
(11:47):
Christian things, like the Bibleand the Ten Commandments and
the structure of the church,that it can be super confusing.
So I just want to preface thisby saying that I'm not
suggesting any bad intentions atall behind these parallels, but
as someone who has walked thepath both of recovery and
deepening my Catholic faith, thesimilarities were actually
(12:10):
super hard to ignore andunderstanding them has been an
important part of how I've cometo see AA in both its strengths
and its weaknesses.
So let's first talk about thebig book.
The big book I mean even theword the big book.
It's kind of like how we referto the Bible as like the good
(12:32):
book or, you know, sacredscripture, and if you've spent
any time in AA you'll notice howcentral this text is to the
program.
It is not just a guidebook formany.
Most sponsors are going toeither work with you as you work
through the big book or they'regoing to want you to have read
(12:56):
the big book.
Anyway, the big book I hate tosay this Again, this is my
experience book.
I hate to say this again, thisis my, my experience.
But the big book was treatedwith the reverence of scripture
in the AA meetings that I was in.
Okay, so people repeatedlyreferenced it during meetings,
(13:20):
discussed its passages deeplyand used quotes from it as
guiding principles in theirdaily life.
It is essentially thequote-unquote holy book of
Alcoholics Anonymous and thereis a lot of good information
there.
It's important information, butI just the way that it's
(13:43):
reverenced, the way that it'stalked about, is so, anyway, it
was difficult, it was confusingfor me.
I don't want to say it wasdifficult, but it was just
confusing for me because, again,it just felt like this was
their Bible.
And the reason for this isbecause, like the Bible and the
(14:04):
Christian faith, the big booklays out Alcoholics Anonymous's
entire philosophy, from thenature of alcoholism as a
disease to steps necessary forrecovery.
It has stories in it that arelike testimonies of the saints,
basically, and they're meant toinspire and guide those on the
(14:27):
path to recovery.
But here's the thing to me, asa Catholic, it feels like it
forms a kind of spiritualfoundation, yet without the
fullness of truth and divinerevelation we find in the Bible.
That nagging feeling thatsomething is missing is one of
the reasons I started toquestion how much of my
(14:48):
spirituality could really anchoritself in the big book.
Yet here's the thing I wasconstantly encouraged to do so,
and I just found thatproblematic.
So now let's talk about the 12steps.
These function almost like theprogram's own set of
commandments, but with a bigfocus on personal action and
(15:11):
self-reflection.
So they're presented as the wayto live a sober life, just like
the 10 commandments are a moralframework for Christians to
live a righteous life.
Both are step-by-step guides totransformation.
The Ten Commandments tell uswhat to avoid and how to honor
God and others, while the TwelveSteps tell us how to confront
(15:34):
our own flaws, lean on a higherpower and mend relationships.
So where it differs, though, isin the lack of unifying truth
about who the higher power trulyis, even though the 12 steps do
say God.
The steps point toward aspiritual awakening, but it's
(15:55):
left so open-ended that itultimately depends on your
interpretation of what or whoyou are surrendering to.
And that's a big deal as aCatholic, because we are called
to surrender to the one true God, not just the idea of God or
something we imagine him to be.
Okay, so I'm just going to goahead and share the 12 steps
(16:16):
with you so that you can knowwhat they are, in case you're
unfamiliar.
So the first one is we admittedwe were powerless over alcohol
and that our lives had becomeunmanageable.
Number two is we came tobelieve that a power greater
than ourselves could restore usto sanity.
Number three is we made adecision to turn our will and
our lives over to the care ofGod, as we understood him.
(16:39):
Number four made a searchingand fearless moral inventory of
ourselves.
Number five admitted to god, toourselves and to another human
being, the exact nature of ourwrongs.
Number six were entirely readyto have god remove all these
defects of character.
Seven humbly asked him toremove our shortcomings.
(17:02):
Number eight made a list of allpersons we had harmed and
became willing to make amends tothem all.
Number nine made direct amendsto such people wherever possible
, except when to do so wouldinjure them or others.
Ten continued to take apersonal inventory and, when we
were wrong, promptly admitted it.
(17:22):
Eleven, sought, through prayerand meditation to improve our
conscious contact with God as weunderstood him, praying only
for knowledge of his will for usand the power to carry that out
.
And number 12, having had aspiritual awakening as a result
of these steps, we tried tocarry this message to alcoholics
and to practice theseprinciples in all our affairs.
(17:46):
So, as you can see, as I'mreading those, did you pick up
on just how very Catholic thissounds?
I mean, when you get down tofour, made a searching and
fearless moral inventory ofourselves.
Right, that's an examination ofconscience.
And then we admit to God and toourselves and to another human
(18:11):
being the exact nature of ourwrongs.
We do that through thesacrament of reconciliation.
We were entirely ready to haveGod remove all these defects of
characters.
Right, we say that when we saythe act of contrition, we humbly
ask him to remove ourshortcomings.
And then, you know, we also canmake direct amends or make
(18:32):
amends wherever possible.
We also have our penance thatwe do afterwards and we, as in
step 10 says, continue to takethis personal inventory.
When we are wrong, promptlyadmitted it.
You know this is so much havingto do with reconciliation, but
(18:53):
the thing is, the problem thatcame up for me is that I asked
my sponsor if I actually had totell her or if I could do this
and then take it to a priest,and she said no, that I had to
do it with her, like I had to doall of this with her, and then
(19:13):
later, if I felt like I wantedto go to a priest, I could do
that.
But yeah, I was advised not to.
I was advised to tell her tolike write it all down, go
through it with her, and thenshe said that I could burn it or
you know whatever.
And again, when I asked, shewasn't Catholic or anything.
(19:34):
I don't think she was anythingof.
I don't think she was aChristian or anything like that.
But I didn't know that when Ifirst asked her to be my sponsor
.
And and anyway, she ended upgoing MIA after I was done with
all that, which was even worse,because it's like you pour your
heart out to somebody and thenall of a sudden they vanish, but
(19:56):
then at the same time, it'sactually not too bad, I guess,
because then I didn't have toface her again, knowing that she
knew all that stuff.
But anyway, that's neither herenor there.
But anyway, that's neither herenor there.
Since then I have realized, likethat was something I didn't
need to do.
We have the seal of confessionfor a reason, and I should have
(20:26):
just taken it to a priest, whichI did end up doing that much
later, but I didn't do it duringthis time because, again, I was
still on my faith journey.
It's still kind of confusedabout what I needed to do, what
I didn't need to do, but I didend up taking it to confession
later.
But yeah, so I think that thatwas something that I really
struggled with when it came tothe 12 steps.
(20:50):
And again you hear God named inthese steps over and over and
over again.
And yet I was told that Italked too much about God and
that just I just didn't get that.
So I'm and again, I'm nottelling you this because I'm
trying to tell you not to bepart of AA or that it's bad or
anything Like I totallyunderstand the inclusion part of
(21:14):
it and not wanting people tofeel like they don't belong, but
at the same time I didn't feellike I belonged, like I was told
that I couldn't really talkabout God and what he did for me
in the meetings, and that washard.
(21:35):
And again, that's probablycould have just been the
meetings that I wasn't, becauseI know that different meetings
run differently.
But I'm telling you this justso that you're aware, so that
you're going in with anawareness.
You're not caught off guardthinking like, oh, this is a
Christian organization, this isa Christian thing.
(21:55):
It's not, it's meant not to bethat way.
I mean it is because they seethe value of God and higher
power and all of that and havinga spiritual awakening, and
that's what the 12 steps are allabout.
But at the same time it's notmeant to be church.
So definitely, if you are goingto Alcoholics Anonymous, I
(22:17):
highly suggest having aspiritual director at the same
time.
I think that would be extremelybeneficial.
So the 12 steps are personal butthe traditions are communal, so
they're designed to providestructure and stability for AA
as a whole.
They're meant to be in place sothat AA continues for
(22:40):
generations to come.
It's almost like the way theCatholic Church has, you know,
our bishops and priests anddeacons and canon law and
communal practices that keep thefaith unified and operational.
So, for example, in Tradition2,.
(23:02):
It talks about being guided bya higher power in group
discussions.
A higher power in groupdiscussions which is meant to
mirror the idea of deferring toa divine will.
The emphasis on self-support,humility, leadership and unity
among groups feels a bit likethe principles of stewardship
(23:23):
within the church.
The difference, though, is thatthe church's framework is
divinely instituted.
Its authority doesn't comesolely from the community, but
from Christ himself.
Ae's traditions, on the otherhand, are of course, entirely
man-made because they're not achurch, even if many of the
ideas are rooted in wisdom, fromspiritual principles.
(23:47):
So what I find fascinating aboutthese parallels is how they
speak to the human need forstructure, guidance and
community in our spiritual lives.
I mean, even those people whoare not spiritual or don't
profess a faith can find aspiritual awakening or some sort
of spirituality as they workthrough the steps.
(24:09):
So I'm not going to discountthat AA provides those things
beautifully for many people, butas a devout Catholic speaking
to other Catholics right now,I've come to recognize that
while AA may lay a foundation,it's ultimately incomplete.
Recovery is not just aboutsobriety, it's about the
(24:34):
transformation of the heartthrough the grace of God, and as
Christians, as Catholics, wenot only only need how to live a
life alcohol free or reducedalcohol if that's what our thing
is, but if you're like me andalcohol is not good for you in
(24:57):
any way, shape or form, thenjust not drinking isn't going to
be enough.
Like, like you need somethingelse, and as Catholics we have
that, we have the church, wehave our spiritual gifts, we
have the sacraments, and I thinkthat that's really just what I
want to remind people about.
(25:19):
I think it's important foranyone in recovery to reflect on
deeper questions of faith, andof course, aa can be part of
that process, and it is for somany people.
But true spiritual fullnesscomes from relationship with
Christ, who doesn't just help usheal but redeems us completely,
(25:40):
and that's something no 12Steps Big Book or set of
traditions can offer us.
So as I've been preparing thisepisode, I've kind of been all
over the board with differentthings and I realized I really
just wanted to narrow down likefive things that I would like
you to be aware of as a Catholicthat could come up, that I
(26:05):
think might or could be astumbling block, that were a
stumbling block for me andhopefully going into it, knowing
about it ahead of time could behelpful or beneficial for you.
So the first one is a higherpower language and AA.
I heard things like you need ahigher power and some of us call
(26:26):
that higher power God, but itcan be whatever you want it to
be.
Like I heard that doorknob overthere might be your higher
power, this group might be yourhigher power, and even though I
couldn't quite articulate it atthe time, I can tell you that it
just didn't feel right to meand I guess I was under the
(26:48):
false impression that AA was aChristian organization, like I
talked about before.
And let me just say like Ifully understand and appreciate
why AA's language is inclusive.
It's what helped me walk in thedoor without shame or fear of
judgment.
For many it's a starting point,not a ceiling right.
(27:10):
But as my faith deepened, Irealized that I needed recovery
language that boldly proclaimsChrist as Lord.
Like I needed more God.
I didn't need more AA meetingsand that was just a personal
thing for me.
So just know this isn't acondemnation of AA's openness,
(27:32):
but a recognition of where mysoul needed more clarity.
Now I will say I listen to talks, aa talks from time to time and
there's a podcast that I listento.
What is it?
Let me find it.
It's called the Firing Line andit has speakers.
(27:55):
It has, like AlcoholicsAnonymous, speakers speaking on
different topics and all of that.
So I do listen to that fromtime to time and I was listening
to one the other day and it,you know, god is so good and he
like has you hear things whenyou're supposed to hear them.
And the speaker that I heard wasdescribing a person who was in
(28:20):
a meeting and in the meetingsomebody spoke up and he was
talking about God and all ofthis stuff, about God and all of
this stuff.
And he could tell that this newperson it was a new person that
was there was uncomfortable,and the gentleman that was
talking about God extensively Iwill say he didn't just mention
(28:42):
he was like talking extensivelyabout God he was told that he
needed to stop, like during themeeting, anyway, so the
gentleman went and talked to theother guy the new guy out in
the parking lot and said, oh,that's not really something that
generally happens, like wedon't allow that, and the person
told him.
(29:03):
The new person told him thathe's like I'm so glad that you
came and talked to me because Ididn't feel like I was welcome,
because I wasn't like that otherguy who spoke about God, and I
actually almost left.
But here's the thing like I waslistening to that and I'm like,
yeah, I can totally see that.
But I also know a lot ofCatholics that have left because
(29:25):
people have been giving theirtestimonies or their experience,
strength and hope and they'vetalked bad about Catholicism or
other Christianity in meetingsand that has caused those people
to feel unwelcome and want toleave.
So here's the thing it'simpossible to remain completely
neutral.
(29:45):
The thing that AlcoholicsAnonymous wants everyone to know
is that everyone is welcome.
Period, end of story.
Anyone who has the desire tostop drinking is welcome, anyone
, and I think that's beautiful,like one of the questions that
they ask you when you come there, especially like if you're
(30:07):
working with a sponsor.
The questions, the questionthat they'll ask you when you
come there, especially like ifyou're working with a sponsor.
The questions, the questionthat they'll ask you before they
even work with you is are youwilling to do whatever it takes
to stop drinking?
And that that's a powerfulquestion.
So, going back to the higherpower language and being
inclusive and all of that, Ijust don't think you can be 100%
(30:29):
inclusive, because somebody'salways going to feel a little
out like that they don't reallybelong or that they're not
really like everybody else.
I've talked to clients who havebeen in meetings not even the
ones that are speaking badlyabout Christianity or
Catholicism, but like they'respeaking openly about crystals
(30:50):
and new age things and there'slike witches and all of those
things, and that really makesthem uncomfortable too.
So it's gotta be a two-waystreet, like if you're not going
to let people talk about God atlength, you can't let people
talk about the occult at lengtheither.
So anyway, I don't know howmuch of that goes on.
(31:13):
This is strictly based onthings that I've heard, because
I don't really I rememberhearing too much about the
occult and things like that.
When I was in the AA meetingsthat I was in, it was more just
an aversion to God, but anyway,the other thing was the
powerless message.
(31:34):
But let me first say that Iremember how freeing it was to
actually finally say I ampowerless over alcohol.
It was like exhaling for thefirst time the weight that I had
been carrying in secret.
Well, actually a lot of peopleknew that I was an alcoholic
before I did, but I thought thatI was carrying it in secret and
(31:56):
I could just finally let thatfall to the ground by naming my
weakness.
Let that fall to the ground bynaming my weakness.
It just kind of brought that tothe light.
And I talk about this a lotlike with my clients and with
people, like just speaking itout and being honest about it
begins the healing.
When we're just stuffing it andnot wanting to talk about it,
(32:18):
that's not helpful, so you haveto bring it to the light.
So in stating that I waspowerless over alcohol and my
life had become unmanageable, itwas the moment that I stopped
trying to white knuckle my waythrough and just admitted like I
cannot do this alone.
But over time, repeating thatword powerless really began to
(32:41):
wear on my spirit.
And I will say like my mom islike one of the most positive
people that you can meet, and sowhen I was younger, when we
would think negatively or saynegative stuff, she was always
trying to help us reframe ourthoughts in a positive way.
And I think that's why I lovecoaching so much and I do
(33:02):
coaching is because I know thatthoughts are just thoughts, so
they can be changed or they canbe ignored and that's okay.
So when I was in AlcoholicsAnonymous and I was having to
repeat certain things over and,over and over again, it just
began to wear on me and it wasreally contradictory to the
(33:22):
person that I am.
So what once felt likesurrender all of a sudden
started to feel like defeat, andit just kept me in this state
of feeling like a victim andbroken, as though I wasn't
allowed to grow or hope foranything more.
But here's the truth.
So Catholic teaching does notleave us in powerlessness.
(33:45):
It meets us there withcompassion and calls us forward,
because in baptism we areclaimed for Christ.
We are given, you know, theseven gifts of the Holy Spirit
by virtue of our baptism.
You know those are sealed.
At our time of confirmation, weare given unique charisms to go
out and help build the churchand share Christ with the world.
(34:06):
So we are powerless in our ownstrength, yes, but we are not
without help.
Just like St Paul says, I cando all things through Christ,
who strengthens me, inPhilippians 4.13.
That includes healing, thatincludes sobriety, that includes
becoming the woman that Godcreated you to be.
(34:27):
So God does not humiliate uswith our weakness.
He illuminates it with hismercy and then he equips us for
the journey ahead.
So, yes, there was a time whenI needed to say I am powerless.
But now, by the grace of God, Ican also say I'm being made new
, because the Lord is for me andhe has already begun such a
(34:51):
good work in me.
Right, and I could even saythat way back then.
And then that brings us to thenext one, the identity question.
In AA, when you are called on toshare your experience, strength
and hope, you introduceyourself Hi, I am Christy and I
am an alcoholic.
Now I get why we say this.
(35:13):
I said it too over and over andover again.
It was a way of breaking thesilence, of being honest, of
refusing to hide in shame, andfor a time that fit me.
That acknowledgement helped mestart the journey toward healing
.
It reminded me that I couldn'tdo it alone and that I needed
(35:34):
grace and support and change.
But after years of recovery andyears of healing through Christ,
I started asking like, is thisreally who I am forever?
Like, do I have to continuallysay that I'm an alcoholic?
And when I asked people in AA,they said yes, you're always an
alcoholic, no matter what, nomatter how many years you have,
(35:57):
you're always an alcoholic.
And that just was bizarre to me, because I'm like, well, aren't
I a recovering alcoholic,aren't I a recovered alcoholic?
And you know, like I'm notdrinking, so I'm not an
alcoholic.
But they insisted that I had tosay that and so that was part
of the reason that I left,because I just I'm just such a
(36:19):
firm believer in what you sayover and over and over, like
your mind remembers, and that'sjust going to hold me back.
So of course, I will neverforget where I came from and I
will always have compassion forthe me who struggled with
alcohol.
But I know that addiction is notmy name.
(36:39):
Like the devil calls us by oursin, but Jesus calls us by our
name, I am not my sin, I am notthat addiction, my brokenness,
is not my identity.
My story includes alcohol, yes,but it's defined by something
far greater.
(36:59):
It's defined by my baptism, bythe blood of Christ, by the
voice of God saying fear not,for I have redeemed you.
I have called you by name.
You are mine.
Isaiah 43.1.
That is who I am, that is whoseI am In Christ.
I am a new creation, I amchosen, I am beloved, I am
(37:21):
sealed with the Holy Spirit andI am not a walking label of my
worst day.
I am a daughter of the MostHigh God.
So those, all those things Isaid, those are declarations,
those are scriptures, and that'swhat you speak over yourself
all the time.
God's truth imparting grace onyou all the time.
(37:46):
God's truth imparting grace onyou.
Me saying I'm an alcoholic overand over and over again was not
helping me eventually.
Instead, I am a new creation inChrist, I am beloved, I am
chosen and I am a temple of theHoly Spirit.
So, yes, I once said I am analcoholic, but now I say with
even more conviction I belong toChrist, and that identity
(38:09):
speaks louder than anything elsein the room.
Okay, the fourth thing is groupsharing versus sacramental
confession.
Now, I already kind of talkedabout confession, as in the 12
steps, and while I do believethat there's real power in
vulnerability I've witnessed it,I've experienced it there's
(38:32):
something sacred about sittingin a circle of people who just
get it right, who've walked thesame darkness and are doing
brave work and turning towardthe light, and that kind of
honesty can crack something openin us.
It helps us shed the masks thatwe've worn for too long and it
reminds us that we are not alone.
(38:54):
But at some point I realizedthat what my soul was truly
craving wasn't just groupempathy.
It was sacramental grace,because emotional release can be
beautiful.
Being seen and heard by otherscan be so, so helpful in healing
, but it's not the same as beingforgiven by God.
(39:16):
It's not the same as hearing apriest say I absolve you from
your sins.
I needed a confessional, not acircle.
I needed Christ's absolution,not just peer support.
I needed to be reconciled withGod to receive the grace that
heals not only wounds but souls.
(39:36):
And when meetings began to feelmore emotionally draining for me
than spiritually nourishing, Iknew it was time to rethink
things, not out of judgment, notout of pride, but because God
was calling me forward tosomething else.
He was inviting me to come home, not to a room, but to a church
(39:56):
.
The beauty is we don't have tochoose one or the other Support
groups can be.
The beauty is we don't have tochoose one or the other Support
groups can be vital steppingstones.
But as Catholics we have accessto something eternal the
sacraments, the grace thatactually changes us, the healing
that comes not just from sharedpain but from divine mercy.
(40:19):
So, yes, I agree that there isreal power and vulnerability,
but the deepest power that Ihave ever encountered is the
mercy of Christ poured out inthe confessional, made real on
the altar.
Okay, the third thing is thespiritual roots of AA, which I'm
(40:40):
still not clear on all thisfolks, because I've heard a lot
of different things and I knowthat there was I think there was
a Catholic nun that kind ofwere was helping Dr Bob and Bill
W kind of get things going andand things as well as other
(41:00):
spiritual people, pastors andthings like that.
But I also learned about thespiritual history, some of the
spiritual history behind AA.
I heard about things like I'veread about things I should say
like seances, channeling, andthen there was also the new
(41:21):
thought influence and it justmade me feel a little bit
unsettled, not panicked, notjudgmental, just as jesus tells
us to be alert.
So I just want to put that outthere again.
I have not really dived that,but as someone who's come to
(41:44):
believe deeply in spiritualdiscernment, I just couldn't
ignore those things.
Now, I'm not saying AA is evil,but I am saying that for
Catholics especially, it is okayto examine these roots and ask
hard questions.
It's not arrogance, it's justwisdom, and it could be
something that isn't even thatbothersome, but something to be
(42:10):
aware of, so anyway.
So where does that?
Where does that leave me?
Aa helped save my life and Ibless it for what it gave me,
but I also needed something thatdidn't require me to code
switch between my spiritualbeliefs and my recovery support.
I needed a space where Jesuswas not just welcome but central
(42:34):
, where my healing could be bothholistic and sacramental.
That's why I started buildingwhat I offer through my Catholic
sobriety coaching, not as areplacement for AA, but as an
invitation for those who want togo deeper in healing and
(42:54):
holiness.
This is where I felt Godcalling me to Working with
people in recovery, like lifecoaching for people in recovery,
because we still have a lot ofthings that we need to work
through and clean up after westop drinking, like our lives do
not get magically better, andso that's what I help people in
(43:18):
recovery through.
But you make your goals andthen we talk about how to work
towards them, and that can berepairing relationships, that
can be financial things, jobthings, you know whatever.
It's life coaching, and that'swhat I do for women in recovery.
And then, of course, I workwith women who they would
honestly never go to AlcoholicsAnonymous because they don't
(43:41):
necessarily have a drinkingproblem, but they are realizing
that alcohol is becoming aproblem for them and it's so
important for me to help thesewomen before it becomes a bigger
problem.
So maybe this episode stirredsomething in you, maybe you felt
uneasy in recovery spaces.
(44:02):
So I really wanted to put thisepisode out there, because I
know that there are those of youwho have tried Alcoholics
Anonymous and it was difficultfor you and you ended up leaving
and you kind of gave up ontrying to, you know, fix your
(44:22):
drinking or control yourdrinking, because you just
didn't feel like there was aplace for you.
And I just want you to knowthat you're not alone in feeling
that way.
And then I know that there aresome of you out there who do go
to Alcoholics Anonymous andyou're wondering like it's
really not pleasurable for meanymore because it's, you know,
(44:43):
maybe you share some of thethings that I encountered and
it's really causing a conflictfor you.
That's what this episode isjust to let you know like you're
not alone either.
Like I get you.
I get it and I also understandif you are afraid to voice these
concerns because you don't wantto seem ungrateful or
(45:06):
judgmental.
I celebrated 28 years ofsobriety in February.
I've never talked this muchpublicly about my thoughts on AA
, my honest experience with AA,for that exact reason Like I
(45:27):
don't want to seem ungrateful orjudgmental and I don't want to
hurt anyone who is an AlcoholicsAnonymous and benefiting from
it.
But I also want you to knowthat if something is stirring in
you and you're not feelingright about it, just asking
(45:47):
these questions is not abetrayal of your recovery.
They might be like they werefor me the Holy Spirit inviting
you into something deeper.
So just know that you're notrecovering.
You are being made new and thatjourney deserves a spiritual
(46:09):
foundation.
So if this resonates with you,I'd love to hear your story.
My inbox is open.
You don't have to walk thisroad alone.
This was probably the mostdifficult podcast episode I've
ever recorded.
Please be gentle with me if youdisagree with me.
(46:30):
I don't mind if you disagreewith me, but just know that this
was not easy for me, but theHoly Spirit was urging me to
just speak this out.
That's what I did so.
Until next time, take care andstay rooted in the truth of who
you are and whose you are.
(46:51):
God bless.
Well, that does it for thisepisode of the Catholic Sobriety
Podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand I would invite you to share
it with a friend, who mightalso get value from it as well,
and make sure you subscribe soyou don't miss a thing.
I am the Catholic sobrietycoach, and if you would like to
(47:13):
learn how to work with me orlearn more about the coaching
that I offer, visit my website,thecatholicsobrietycoachcom.
Follow me on Instagram at theCatholic Sobriety Coach.
I look forward to speaking toyou next time, and remember I am
(47:34):
here for you.
I am praying for you.
You are not alone.
Welcome to the Catholic Sobriety Podcast, the
go-to resource for women seekingto have a deeper understanding
of the role alcohol plays intheir lives, women who are
looking to drink less or not atall for any reason.
I am your host, christi Walker.
I'm a wife, mom and ajoy-filled Catholic, and I am
(00:22):
the Catholic Sobriety Coach, andI am so glad you're here.
Hey friends, welcome back tothe show.
Today's episode is one thatI've sat on for a very long time
like months, honestly, probablylonger.
It's probably been more liketwo years, probably longer.
(00:47):
It's probably been more liketwo years that I've been
thinking about recording it.
I've outlined it, I've actuallysat down and recorded it and
scrapped it and completelytalked myself out of it.
So this is something that isvery important to me that I get
right and I approach it in theright way, with the right
(01:10):
intentions, and that is what I'mhoping to do today.
So why has it taken me so long?
It doesn't seem like such a bigdeal to be able to share my
experience with AlcoholicsAnonymous, but I know that this
episode is likely going to hit anerve with some people.
I do know how personal recoveryis, and I also know how deeply
(01:36):
loved AA is by so many,including people I respect and
care about.
And hey, I have a lot of lovefor AA as well, because it was
the thing that guided me towardsobriety.
I mean, obviously, god first,but he used AA to help me change
(02:00):
my mindset and it kickstartednot just my sobriety and
personal journey, but my faithjourney as well.
So know that this is not an AABash session.
I just need to say that clearlyup front.
But, that said, this will alsonot be a glowing endorsement of
it either.
This will also not be a glowingendorsement of it either.
(02:24):
This is based on my experiencewhat AA gave me, where it helped
me survive and, mostimportantly, why.
As a Catholic woman, Iultimately found myself needing
something different, somethingdeeper, something more
spiritually aligned with who Iam and who I was becoming, and
(02:56):
at the time, I could not havearticulated that to you, but
looking back, I see how the HolySpirit was just stirring in me,
guiding me, and ultimately ledme away from AA when the time
was right, and that's when Istarted my slow trek back home
to the Catholic Church, which isanother story that we're not
going to get into today.
(03:17):
And I want to share this, notbecause I think everyone needs
to follow my path, but because Iget asked about my thoughts and
experience.
Quite often, people ask me whyI don't talk about it very much,
and the honest answer is I'vebeen afraid of how it would be
received.
I've been hesitant because Ididn't want to seem ungrateful
(03:39):
or divisive, but at the sametime, I want to be honest and
transparent because there arewomen out there who are feeling
what I felt and they need toknow that they are not crazy for
wanting something morespiritually rooted.
This is really my motivationnow for wanting to share this
(04:04):
information Now.
I would never, ever tellsomeone not to go to AA if
that's what they are desiring,or to leave AA if they were
finding it helpful.
I am creating this podcast sothat other Catholics have the
information that I wish I hadknown before I went to AA.
(04:29):
I probably still would havegone to AA, but this information
or this knowledge could havesaved me a lot of grief and
would have at least helped me beaware of what to expect or
aware of why AlcoholicsAnonymous does certain things.
(04:52):
Now I'm not here to in any waysay that AA needs to change
anything.
I'm not saying that they needto be more Catholic, friendly or
anything like that.
Aa is what it is.
It's this long timeorganization.
They have their 12 steps andtheir 12 traditions and their
(05:16):
big book and I'll get to alittle bit more about that later
in the episode but they havethis established.
It is working.
It works for so many peopleprobably millions of people and
I'm not here to say they need tochange that.
I'm just here to give youinformation so that if you are
(05:37):
in AA and you're feeling alittle like maybe it's not
jiving with you anymore, maybeyou're feeling like you need
something more or somethingdifferent, I just want to let
you know why that might be, whyyou might be feeling that, and
that it's okay that you'refeeling that, because when I was
(06:00):
in Alcoholics Anonymous, when Iwas having these feelings, I
was basically told, like, if youleave, then you're just going
to go back out drinking.
You're a dry drunk, you're this, you're that, like all these
things, even though I wasn'teven drinking.
This again, is my experiencefrom my home group and the
people that I encountered.
(06:21):
I'm not saying that this iseverywhere, but I am saying that
from a lot of people that I'vetalked to.
We definitely have experiencedsome similar things, so those
similar things are what I'mgoing to focus on.
I'm not going to focus on, likethe other little things that
(06:41):
happened.
Okay, hopefully that makessense.
So first I want to talk aboutwhat AA gave me.
When I was first trying to getsober, aa was really the only
game in town.
It gave me structure, it gaveme a language to understand what
I was going through and, maybemost importantly, it gave me a
(07:04):
community, because that isduring a time that I had to let
go of my friends because theyall drink alcohol.
I had to let go of my habits,which were to go to bars and go
line dancing, which I love to do.
I couldn't do that anymore andI didn't really know what to do
with myself, because that'salways what I did.
(07:24):
And then I also had to just letgo of being comfortable.
Now, I wasn't comfortable.
As an overdrinker, alcoholic,alcohol use disorder, whatever
you want to call it, I was notcomfortable.
But alcohol did keep mecomfortably, as the Pink Floyd
(07:47):
song says.
So when I started to feel shame, when I started to feel bad
about myself or whatever, Icould always turn to my toxic
best friend, alcohol, to lift meup.
But I didn't have that comfortanymore, so I had to get
uncomfortable and be comfortablewith doing that.
So that is where AA came in,because for a season it carried
(08:11):
me, and I will never dismissthat.
I was raw, I was desperate andI truly believe that it was
God's providence that used AA tocarry me through that season
and again I just really want tohonor that.
But even in those early days,before I had fully returned to
(08:34):
my Catholic faith, there werethings that just didn't sit
quite right with me theopened-ended spirituality and
the idea of God as youunderstood him, the repetition
of the word powerless it justall was a lot for me and quite
honestly, it was confusingbecause in the meetings that I
(08:58):
was in and I'm not saying thisis at all meetings, but in my
home group, and I actually endedup having two different home
groups I was always told not totalk about God.
So when I told my story of howI went to my first meeting and I
was sitting in the car and Ididn't want to come in and I
(09:22):
felt like God literally carriedme into that meeting, and when I
would talk about God as Iunderstood him, mind you, I was
told that I talked too muchabout God and, honestly, I
wasn't trying to proselytizeanyone or anything at all.
Again, I was a very nominalCatholic at that time.
(09:46):
I was still really growing inmy faith and trying to figure
things out, but I was shut downso often and it was very
confusing because to me,alcoholics Anonymous seemed like
a very faith-based group.
If you look at the 12 steps and12 traditions and even how they
(10:09):
talk about the big book, it'sall very Christian and so I
actually I just want to exploresomething that's a little
outside the box but could berelevant in helping you
understand AA culture if you'venever been part of it, and its
role in recovery.
So, specifically, I want tocompare the ways that Alcoholics
(10:34):
Anonymous treats itsfoundational elements with the
big book, the 12 steps and the12 traditions, parallel to what
we find in Christian churches,right, christian denominations,
catholic, whether you'reCatholic or Protestant,
evangelical, whatever.
There's some parallels ofAlcoholics Anonymous and
(10:59):
religion, and the reason why Iwant to talk a little bit about
this is to show that it can bevery confusing, like I know a
lot of people who well, I can'tsay a lot of people.
I know that there are a lot ofpeople.
I don't personally know a lotof people, but I know some
people who actually treatAlcoholics Anonymous as their
(11:23):
church.
It is their religion prettymuch and it's what they devote
everything to, and I think someof that, even though I think the
12 Steps, 12 Traditions and theBig Book are great, I think
it's so closely based onChristian principles, like in
(11:47):
Christian things, like the Bibleand the Ten Commandments and
the structure of the church,that it can be super confusing.
So I just want to preface thisby saying that I'm not
suggesting any bad intentions atall behind these parallels, but
as someone who has walked thepath both of recovery and
deepening my Catholic faith, thesimilarities were actually
(12:10):
super hard to ignore andunderstanding them has been an
important part of how I've cometo see AA in both its strengths
and its weaknesses.
So let's first talk about thebig book.
The big book I mean even theword the big book.
It's kind of like how we referto the Bible as like the good
(12:32):
book or, you know, sacredscripture, and if you've spent
any time in AA you'll notice howcentral this text is to the
program.
It is not just a guidebook formany.
Most sponsors are going toeither work with you as you work
through the big book or they'regoing to want you to have read
(12:56):
the big book.
Anyway, the big book I hate tosay this Again, this is my
experience book.
I hate to say this again, thisis my, my experience.
But the big book was treatedwith the reverence of scripture
in the AA meetings that I was in.
Okay, so people repeatedlyreferenced it during meetings,
(13:20):
discussed its passages deeplyand used quotes from it as
guiding principles in theirdaily life.
It is essentially thequote-unquote holy book of
Alcoholics Anonymous and thereis a lot of good information
there.
It's important information, butI just the way that it's
(13:43):
reverenced, the way that it'stalked about, is so, anyway, it
was difficult, it was confusingfor me.
I don't want to say it wasdifficult, but it was just
confusing for me because, again,it just felt like this was
their Bible.
And the reason for this isbecause, like the Bible and the
(14:04):
Christian faith, the big booklays out Alcoholics Anonymous's
entire philosophy, from thenature of alcoholism as a
disease to steps necessary forrecovery.
It has stories in it that arelike testimonies of the saints,
basically, and they're meant toinspire and guide those on the
(14:27):
path to recovery.
But here's the thing to me, asa Catholic, it feels like it
forms a kind of spiritualfoundation, yet without the
fullness of truth and divinerevelation we find in the Bible.
That nagging feeling thatsomething is missing is one of
the reasons I started toquestion how much of my
(14:48):
spirituality could really anchoritself in the big book.
Yet here's the thing I wasconstantly encouraged to do so,
and I just found thatproblematic.
So now let's talk about the 12steps.
These function almost like theprogram's own set of
commandments, but with a bigfocus on personal action and
(15:11):
self-reflection.
So they're presented as the wayto live a sober life, just like
the 10 commandments are a moralframework for Christians to
live a righteous life.
Both are step-by-step guides totransformation.
The Ten Commandments tell uswhat to avoid and how to honor
God and others, while the TwelveSteps tell us how to confront
(15:34):
our own flaws, lean on a higherpower and mend relationships.
So where it differs, though, isin the lack of unifying truth
about who the higher power trulyis, even though the 12 steps do
say God.
The steps point toward aspiritual awakening, but it's
(15:55):
left so open-ended that itultimately depends on your
interpretation of what or whoyou are surrendering to.
And that's a big deal as aCatholic, because we are called
to surrender to the one true God, not just the idea of God or
something we imagine him to be.
Okay, so I'm just going to goahead and share the 12 steps
(16:16):
with you so that you can knowwhat they are, in case you're
unfamiliar.
So the first one is we admittedwe were powerless over alcohol
and that our lives had becomeunmanageable.
Number two is we came tobelieve that a power greater
than ourselves could restore usto sanity.
Number three is we made adecision to turn our will and
our lives over to the care ofGod, as we understood him.
(16:39):
Number four made a searchingand fearless moral inventory of
ourselves.
Number five admitted to god, toourselves and to another human
being, the exact nature of ourwrongs.
Number six were entirely readyto have god remove all these
defects of character.
Seven humbly asked him toremove our shortcomings.
(17:02):
Number eight made a list of allpersons we had harmed and
became willing to make amends tothem all.
Number nine made direct amendsto such people wherever possible
, except when to do so wouldinjure them or others.
Ten continued to take apersonal inventory and, when we
were wrong, promptly admitted it.
(17:22):
Eleven, sought, through prayerand meditation to improve our
conscious contact with God as weunderstood him, praying only
for knowledge of his will for usand the power to carry that out
.
And number 12, having had aspiritual awakening as a result
of these steps, we tried tocarry this message to alcoholics
and to practice theseprinciples in all our affairs.
(17:46):
So, as you can see, as I'mreading those, did you pick up
on just how very Catholic thissounds?
I mean, when you get down tofour, made a searching and
fearless moral inventory ofourselves.
Right, that's an examination ofconscience.
And then we admit to God and toourselves and to another human
(18:11):
being the exact nature of ourwrongs.
We do that through thesacrament of reconciliation.
We were entirely ready to haveGod remove all these defects of
characters.
Right, we say that when we saythe act of contrition, we humbly
ask him to remove ourshortcomings.
And then, you know, we also canmake direct amends or make
(18:32):
amends wherever possible.
We also have our penance thatwe do afterwards and we, as in
step 10 says, continue to takethis personal inventory.
When we are wrong, promptlyadmitted it.
You know this is so much havingto do with reconciliation, but
(18:53):
the thing is, the problem thatcame up for me is that I asked
my sponsor if I actually had totell her or if I could do this
and then take it to a priest,and she said no, that I had to
do it with her, like I had to doall of this with her, and then
(19:13):
later, if I felt like I wantedto go to a priest, I could do
that.
But yeah, I was advised not to.
I was advised to tell her tolike write it all down, go
through it with her, and thenshe said that I could burn it or
you know whatever.
And again, when I asked, shewasn't Catholic or anything.
(19:34):
I don't think she was anythingof.
I don't think she was aChristian or anything like that.
But I didn't know that when Ifirst asked her to be my sponsor
.
And and anyway, she ended upgoing MIA after I was done with
all that, which was even worse,because it's like you pour your
heart out to somebody and thenall of a sudden they vanish, but
(19:56):
then at the same time, it'sactually not too bad, I guess,
because then I didn't have toface her again, knowing that she
knew all that stuff.
But anyway, that's neither herenor there.
But anyway, that's neither herenor there.
Since then I have realized, likethat was something I didn't
need to do.
We have the seal of confessionfor a reason, and I should have
(20:26):
just taken it to a priest, whichI did end up doing that much
later, but I didn't do it duringthis time because, again, I was
still on my faith journey.
It's still kind of confusedabout what I needed to do, what
I didn't need to do, but I didend up taking it to confession
later.
But yeah, so I think that thatwas something that I really
struggled with when it came tothe 12 steps.
(20:50):
And again you hear God named inthese steps over and over and
over again.
And yet I was told that Italked too much about God and
that just I just didn't get that.
So I'm and again, I'm nottelling you this because I'm
trying to tell you not to bepart of AA or that it's bad or
anything Like I totallyunderstand the inclusion part of
(21:14):
it and not wanting people tofeel like they don't belong, but
at the same time I didn't feellike I belonged, like I was told
that I couldn't really talkabout God and what he did for me
in the meetings, and that washard.
(21:35):
And again, that's probablycould have just been the
meetings that I wasn't, becauseI know that different meetings
run differently.
But I'm telling you this justso that you're aware, so that
you're going in with anawareness.
You're not caught off guardthinking like, oh, this is a
Christian organization, this isa Christian thing.
(21:55):
It's not, it's meant not to bethat way.
I mean it is because they seethe value of God and higher
power and all of that and havinga spiritual awakening, and
that's what the 12 steps are allabout.
But at the same time it's notmeant to be church.
So definitely, if you are goingto Alcoholics Anonymous, I
(22:17):
highly suggest having aspiritual director at the same
time.
I think that would be extremelybeneficial.
So the 12 steps are personal butthe traditions are communal, so
they're designed to providestructure and stability for AA
as a whole.
They're meant to be in place sothat AA continues for
(22:40):
generations to come.
It's almost like the way theCatholic Church has, you know,
our bishops and priests anddeacons and canon law and
communal practices that keep thefaith unified and operational.
So, for example, in Tradition2,.
(23:02):
It talks about being guided bya higher power in group
discussions.
A higher power in groupdiscussions which is meant to
mirror the idea of deferring toa divine will.
The emphasis on self-support,humility, leadership and unity
among groups feels a bit likethe principles of stewardship
(23:23):
within the church.
The difference, though, is thatthe church's framework is
divinely instituted.
Its authority doesn't comesolely from the community, but
from Christ himself.
Ae's traditions, on the otherhand, are of course, entirely
man-made because they're not achurch, even if many of the
ideas are rooted in wisdom, fromspiritual principles.
(23:47):
So what I find fascinating aboutthese parallels is how they
speak to the human need forstructure, guidance and
community in our spiritual lives.
I mean, even those people whoare not spiritual or don't
profess a faith can find aspiritual awakening or some sort
of spirituality as they workthrough the steps.
(24:09):
So I'm not going to discountthat AA provides those things
beautifully for many people, butas a devout Catholic speaking
to other Catholics right now,I've come to recognize that
while AA may lay a foundation,it's ultimately incomplete.
Recovery is not just aboutsobriety, it's about the
(24:34):
transformation of the heartthrough the grace of God, and as
Christians, as Catholics, wenot only only need how to live a
life alcohol free or reducedalcohol if that's what our thing
is, but if you're like me andalcohol is not good for you in
(24:57):
any way, shape or form, thenjust not drinking isn't going to
be enough.
Like, like you need somethingelse, and as Catholics we have
that, we have the church, wehave our spiritual gifts, we
have the sacraments, and I thinkthat that's really just what I
want to remind people about.
(25:19):
I think it's important foranyone in recovery to reflect on
deeper questions of faith, andof course, aa can be part of
that process, and it is for somany people.
But true spiritual fullnesscomes from relationship with
Christ, who doesn't just help usheal but redeems us completely,
(25:40):
and that's something no 12Steps Big Book or set of
traditions can offer us.
So as I've been preparing thisepisode, I've kind of been all
over the board with differentthings and I realized I really
just wanted to narrow down likefive things that I would like
you to be aware of as a Catholicthat could come up, that I
(26:05):
think might or could be astumbling block, that were a
stumbling block for me andhopefully going into it, knowing
about it ahead of time could behelpful or beneficial for you.
So the first one is a higherpower language and AA.
I heard things like you need ahigher power and some of us call
(26:26):
that higher power God, but itcan be whatever you want it to
be.
Like I heard that doorknob overthere might be your higher
power, this group might be yourhigher power, and even though I
couldn't quite articulate it atthe time, I can tell you that it
just didn't feel right to meand I guess I was under the
(26:48):
false impression that AA was aChristian organization, like I
talked about before.
And let me just say like Ifully understand and appreciate
why AA's language is inclusive.
It's what helped me walk in thedoor without shame or fear of
judgment.
For many it's a starting point,not a ceiling right.
(27:10):
But as my faith deepened, Irealized that I needed recovery
language that boldly proclaimsChrist as Lord.
Like I needed more God.
I didn't need more AA meetingsand that was just a personal
thing for me.
So just know this isn't acondemnation of AA's openness,
(27:32):
but a recognition of where mysoul needed more clarity.
Now I will say I listen to talks, aa talks from time to time and
there's a podcast that I listento.
What is it?
Let me find it.
It's called the Firing Line andit has speakers.
(27:55):
It has, like AlcoholicsAnonymous, speakers speaking on
different topics and all of that.
So I do listen to that fromtime to time and I was listening
to one the other day and it,you know, god is so good and he
like has you hear things whenyou're supposed to hear them.
And the speaker that I heard wasdescribing a person who was in
(28:20):
a meeting and in the meetingsomebody spoke up and he was
talking about God and all ofthis stuff, about God and all of
this stuff.
And he could tell that this newperson it was a new person that
was there was uncomfortable,and the gentleman that was
talking about God extensively Iwill say he didn't just mention
(28:42):
he was like talking extensivelyabout God he was told that he
needed to stop, like during themeeting, anyway, so the
gentleman went and talked to theother guy the new guy out in
the parking lot and said, oh,that's not really something that
generally happens, like wedon't allow that, and the person
told him.
(29:03):
The new person told him thathe's like I'm so glad that you
came and talked to me because Ididn't feel like I was welcome,
because I wasn't like that otherguy who spoke about God, and I
actually almost left.
But here's the thing like I waslistening to that and I'm like,
yeah, I can totally see that.
But I also know a lot ofCatholics that have left because
(29:25):
people have been giving theirtestimonies or their experience,
strength and hope and they'vetalked bad about Catholicism or
other Christianity in meetingsand that has caused those people
to feel unwelcome and want toleave.
So here's the thing it'simpossible to remain completely
neutral.
(29:45):
The thing that AlcoholicsAnonymous wants everyone to know
is that everyone is welcome.
Period, end of story.
Anyone who has the desire tostop drinking is welcome, anyone
, and I think that's beautiful,like one of the questions that
they ask you when you come there, especially like if you're
(30:07):
working with a sponsor.
The questions, the questionthat they'll ask you when you
come there, especially like ifyou're working with a sponsor.
The questions, the questionthat they'll ask you before they
even work with you is are youwilling to do whatever it takes
to stop drinking?
And that that's a powerfulquestion.
So, going back to the higherpower language and being
inclusive and all of that, Ijust don't think you can be 100%
(30:29):
inclusive, because somebody'salways going to feel a little
out like that they don't reallybelong or that they're not
really like everybody else.
I've talked to clients who havebeen in meetings not even the
ones that are speaking badlyabout Christianity or
Catholicism, but like they'respeaking openly about crystals
(30:50):
and new age things and there'slike witches and all of those
things, and that really makesthem uncomfortable too.
So it's gotta be a two-waystreet, like if you're not going
to let people talk about God atlength, you can't let people
talk about the occult at lengtheither.
So anyway, I don't know howmuch of that goes on.
(31:13):
This is strictly based onthings that I've heard, because
I don't really I rememberhearing too much about the
occult and things like that.
When I was in the AA meetingsthat I was in, it was more just
an aversion to God, but anyway,the other thing was the
powerless message.
(31:34):
But let me first say that Iremember how freeing it was to
actually finally say I ampowerless over alcohol.
It was like exhaling for thefirst time the weight that I had
been carrying in secret.
Well, actually a lot of peopleknew that I was an alcoholic
before I did, but I thought thatI was carrying it in secret and
(31:56):
I could just finally let thatfall to the ground by naming my
weakness.
Let that fall to the ground bynaming my weakness.
It just kind of brought that tothe light.
And I talk about this a lotlike with my clients and with
people, like just speaking itout and being honest about it
begins the healing.
When we're just stuffing it andnot wanting to talk about it,
(32:18):
that's not helpful, so you haveto bring it to the light.
So in stating that I waspowerless over alcohol and my
life had become unmanageable, itwas the moment that I stopped
trying to white knuckle my waythrough and just admitted like I
cannot do this alone.
But over time, repeating thatword powerless really began to
(32:41):
wear on my spirit.
And I will say like my mom islike one of the most positive
people that you can meet, and sowhen I was younger, when we
would think negatively or saynegative stuff, she was always
trying to help us reframe ourthoughts in a positive way.
And I think that's why I lovecoaching so much and I do
(33:02):
coaching is because I know thatthoughts are just thoughts, so
they can be changed or they canbe ignored and that's okay.
So when I was in AlcoholicsAnonymous and I was having to
repeat certain things over and,over and over again, it just
began to wear on me and it wasreally contradictory to the
(33:22):
person that I am.
So what once felt likesurrender all of a sudden
started to feel like defeat, andit just kept me in this state
of feeling like a victim andbroken, as though I wasn't
allowed to grow or hope foranything more.
But here's the truth.
So Catholic teaching does notleave us in powerlessness.
(33:45):
It meets us there withcompassion and calls us forward,
because in baptism we areclaimed for Christ.
We are given, you know, theseven gifts of the Holy Spirit
by virtue of our baptism.
You know those are sealed.
At our time of confirmation, weare given unique charisms to go
out and help build the churchand share Christ with the world.
(34:06):
So we are powerless in our ownstrength, yes, but we are not
without help.
Just like St Paul says, I cando all things through Christ,
who strengthens me, inPhilippians 4.13.
That includes healing, thatincludes sobriety, that includes
becoming the woman that Godcreated you to be.
(34:27):
So God does not humiliate uswith our weakness.
He illuminates it with hismercy and then he equips us for
the journey ahead.
So, yes, there was a time whenI needed to say I am powerless.
But now, by the grace of God, Ican also say I'm being made new
, because the Lord is for me andhe has already begun such a
(34:51):
good work in me.
Right, and I could even saythat way back then.
And then that brings us to thenext one, the identity question.
In AA, when you are called on toshare your experience, strength
and hope, you introduceyourself Hi, I am Christy and I
am an alcoholic.
Now I get why we say this.
(35:13):
I said it too over and over andover again.
It was a way of breaking thesilence, of being honest, of
refusing to hide in shame, andfor a time that fit me.
That acknowledgement helped mestart the journey toward healing
.
It reminded me that I couldn'tdo it alone and that I needed
(35:34):
grace and support and change.
But after years of recovery andyears of healing through Christ,
I started asking like, is thisreally who I am forever?
Like, do I have to continuallysay that I'm an alcoholic?
And when I asked people in AA,they said yes, you're always an
alcoholic, no matter what, nomatter how many years you have,
(35:57):
you're always an alcoholic.
And that just was bizarre to me, because I'm like, well, aren't
I a recovering alcoholic,aren't I a recovered alcoholic?
And you know, like I'm notdrinking, so I'm not an
alcoholic.
But they insisted that I had tosay that and so that was part
of the reason that I left,because I just I'm just such a
(36:19):
firm believer in what you sayover and over and over, like
your mind remembers, and that'sjust going to hold me back.
So of course, I will neverforget where I came from and I
will always have compassion forthe me who struggled with
alcohol.
But I know that addiction is notmy name.
(36:39):
Like the devil calls us by oursin, but Jesus calls us by our
name, I am not my sin, I am notthat addiction, my brokenness,
is not my identity.
My story includes alcohol, yes,but it's defined by something
far greater.
(36:59):
It's defined by my baptism, bythe blood of Christ, by the
voice of God saying fear not,for I have redeemed you.
I have called you by name.
You are mine.
Isaiah 43.1.
That is who I am, that is whoseI am In Christ.
I am a new creation, I amchosen, I am beloved, I am
(37:21):
sealed with the Holy Spirit andI am not a walking label of my
worst day.
I am a daughter of the MostHigh God.
So those, all those things Isaid, those are declarations,
those are scriptures, and that'swhat you speak over yourself
all the time.
God's truth imparting grace onyou all the time.
(37:46):
God's truth imparting grace onyou.
Me saying I'm an alcoholic overand over and over again was not
helping me eventually.
Instead, I am a new creation inChrist, I am beloved, I am
chosen and I am a temple of theHoly Spirit.
So, yes, I once said I am analcoholic, but now I say with
even more conviction I belong toChrist, and that identity
(38:09):
speaks louder than anything elsein the room.
Okay, the fourth thing is groupsharing versus sacramental
confession.
Now, I already kind of talkedabout confession, as in the 12
steps, and while I do believethat there's real power in
vulnerability I've witnessed it,I've experienced it there's
(38:32):
something sacred about sittingin a circle of people who just
get it right, who've walked thesame darkness and are doing
brave work and turning towardthe light, and that kind of
honesty can crack something openin us.
It helps us shed the masks thatwe've worn for too long and it
reminds us that we are not alone.
(38:54):
But at some point I realizedthat what my soul was truly
craving wasn't just groupempathy.
It was sacramental grace,because emotional release can be
beautiful.
Being seen and heard by otherscan be so, so helpful in healing
, but it's not the same as beingforgiven by God.
(39:16):
It's not the same as hearing apriest say I absolve you from
your sins.
I needed a confessional, not acircle.
I needed Christ's absolution,not just peer support.
I needed to be reconciled withGod to receive the grace that
heals not only wounds but souls.
(39:36):
And when meetings began to feelmore emotionally draining for me
than spiritually nourishing, Iknew it was time to rethink
things, not out of judgment, notout of pride, but because God
was calling me forward tosomething else.
He was inviting me to come home, not to a room, but to a church
(39:56):
.
The beauty is we don't have tochoose one or the other Support
groups can be.
The beauty is we don't have tochoose one or the other Support
groups can be vital steppingstones.
But as Catholics we have accessto something eternal the
sacraments, the grace thatactually changes us, the healing
that comes not just from sharedpain but from divine mercy.
(40:19):
So, yes, I agree that there isreal power and vulnerability,
but the deepest power that Ihave ever encountered is the
mercy of Christ poured out inthe confessional, made real on
the altar.
Okay, the third thing is thespiritual roots of AA, which I'm
(40:40):
still not clear on all thisfolks, because I've heard a lot
of different things and I knowthat there was I think there was
a Catholic nun that kind ofwere was helping Dr Bob and Bill
W kind of get things going andand things as well as other
(41:00):
spiritual people, pastors andthings like that.
But I also learned about thespiritual history, some of the
spiritual history behind AA.
I heard about things like I'veread about things I should say
like seances, channeling, andthen there was also the new
(41:21):
thought influence and it justmade me feel a little bit
unsettled, not panicked, notjudgmental, just as jesus tells
us to be alert.
So I just want to put that outthere again.
I have not really dived that,but as someone who's come to
(41:44):
believe deeply in spiritualdiscernment, I just couldn't
ignore those things.
Now, I'm not saying AA is evil,but I am saying that for
Catholics especially, it is okayto examine these roots and ask
hard questions.
It's not arrogance, it's justwisdom, and it could be
something that isn't even thatbothersome, but something to be
(42:10):
aware of, so anyway.
So where does that?
Where does that leave me?
Aa helped save my life and Ibless it for what it gave me,
but I also needed something thatdidn't require me to code
switch between my spiritualbeliefs and my recovery support.
I needed a space where Jesuswas not just welcome but central
(42:34):
, where my healing could be bothholistic and sacramental.
That's why I started buildingwhat I offer through my Catholic
sobriety coaching, not as areplacement for AA, but as an
invitation for those who want togo deeper in healing and
(42:54):
holiness.
This is where I felt Godcalling me to Working with
people in recovery, like lifecoaching for people in recovery,
because we still have a lot ofthings that we need to work
through and clean up after westop drinking, like our lives do
not get magically better, andso that's what I help people in
(43:18):
recovery through.
But you make your goals andthen we talk about how to work
towards them, and that can berepairing relationships, that
can be financial things, jobthings, you know whatever.
It's life coaching, and that'swhat I do for women in recovery.
And then, of course, I workwith women who they would
honestly never go to AlcoholicsAnonymous because they don't
(43:41):
necessarily have a drinkingproblem, but they are realizing
that alcohol is becoming aproblem for them and it's so
important for me to help thesewomen before it becomes a bigger
problem.
So maybe this episode stirredsomething in you, maybe you felt
uneasy in recovery spaces.
(44:02):
So I really wanted to put thisepisode out there, because I
know that there are those of youwho have tried Alcoholics
Anonymous and it was difficultfor you and you ended up leaving
and you kind of gave up ontrying to, you know, fix your
(44:22):
drinking or control yourdrinking, because you just
didn't feel like there was aplace for you.
And I just want you to knowthat you're not alone in feeling
that way.
And then I know that there aresome of you out there who do go
to Alcoholics Anonymous andyou're wondering like it's
really not pleasurable for meanymore because it's, you know,
(44:43):
maybe you share some of thethings that I encountered and
it's really causing a conflictfor you.
That's what this episode isjust to let you know like you're
not alone either.
Like I get you.
I get it and I also understandif you are afraid to voice these
concerns because you don't wantto seem ungrateful or
(45:06):
judgmental.
I celebrated 28 years ofsobriety in February.
I've never talked this muchpublicly about my thoughts on AA
, my honest experience with AA,for that exact reason Like I
(45:27):
don't want to seem ungrateful orjudgmental and I don't want to
hurt anyone who is an AlcoholicsAnonymous and benefiting from
it.
But I also want you to knowthat if something is stirring in
you and you're not feelingright about it, just asking
(45:47):
these questions is not abetrayal of your recovery.
They might be like they werefor me the Holy Spirit inviting
you into something deeper.
So just know that you're notrecovering.
You are being made new and thatjourney deserves a spiritual
(46:09):
foundation.
So if this resonates with you,I'd love to hear your story.
My inbox is open.
You don't have to walk thisroad alone.
This was probably the mostdifficult podcast episode I've
ever recorded.
Please be gentle with me if youdisagree with me.
(46:30):
I don't mind if you disagreewith me, but just know that this
was not easy for me, but theHoly Spirit was urging me to
just speak this out.
That's what I did so.
Until next time, take care andstay rooted in the truth of who
you are and whose you are.
(46:51):
God bless.
Well, that does it for thisepisode of the Catholic Sobriety
Podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand I would invite you to share
it with a friend, who mightalso get value from it as well,
and make sure you subscribe soyou don't miss a thing.
I am the Catholic sobrietycoach, and if you would like to
(47:13):
learn how to work with me orlearn more about the coaching
that I offer, visit my website,thecatholicsobrietycoachcom.
Follow me on Instagram at theCatholic Sobriety Coach.
I look forward to speaking toyou next time, and remember I am
(47:34):
here for you.
I am praying for you.
You are not alone.
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