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August 6, 2024 36 mins

In this special Shorts episode, we revisit some highlights from a previous season that dive deep into personal journeys and the challenges of dating apps. Our guest, Terence, believes that everyone is on their unique path. Yet, he struggles with feelings of resentment when judged by people with impressive job titles and comfortable bank accounts.

Join host Rahim Thawer and Terence as they invoke the wisdom of Beyonce to reframe Terence’s feelings of inadequacy. They explore how capitalism and grind culture can be especially tough for those managing trauma and adult ADHD. Watch as Rahim guides Terence through a thought record, helping him reshape his self-perception and view of potential Tinder matches.


ABOUT THE CBT DIVE PODCAST
The CBT Dive is a video podcast that brings therapy skills to the real world. Each episode welcomes a new guest who wants to explore a challenging situation using the most common cognitive behavioural therapy tool: the thought record.

ABOUT HOST
Rahim Thawer is a queer, racialized social worker and psychotherapist based in Toronto. He's created The CBT Dive podcast to support folks who want to learn how to use a thought record and to demystify what therapy can look like.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hello, hello.
Welcome to the CBT Dive.
This is a video podcast thatshows you how to use cognitive
behavioral therapy skills inreal life.
I'm psychotherapist and socialworker Rahim Thawar.
Today's show is a CBT Shortsepisode from season one, where
we have collected key momentsfor you to dip into.

(00:30):
Welcome to another episode ofthe CBT Dive.
Today we have Terence.
Terence is a special guest.
I met him on my travels in SouthAfrica.
He is 29 years old, born andraised in Cape Town, identifies
as pansexual.
Some interesting things aboutTerrence are that he is an

(00:52):
overall creative.
He's a published playwright, ascreenwriter, and a drama
teacher.
Terrence is a person who is inrecovery.
He attends weekly AA meetings.
And he shares this informationwith us because he's open about
his recovery journey.
And he's felt like the AAmeetings are a safe space where

(01:12):
people can share theirexperiences without receiving
unsolicited advice.
So those have been extremelytherapeutic experiences for him.
Welcome, Terrence.
How are you today?

SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
I am stunning.
It's a beautiful sunny day.
When the sun's out, I am alwayshappy, especially in the middle
of winter.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31):
Me too.
If this could be Cape Town'swinter every day, I would be so
happy.
I would be so happy.
Terrence, a quick question foryou.
Outside of the AA therapeuticspace, have you accessed other
kinds of therapy before?

SPEAKER_02 (01:47):
Before I got sober, I had made a practitioner, a TRE
practitioner, trauma releaseexercise is what I think it's
called.
Oh, amazing.
And I've done some of that.
But sobriety also is justshaking off a lot of the bad
jujus.
And I've found that to behelpful at the time.

SPEAKER_01 (02:08):
Okay, amazing.
You are steeped in the processof reflection, insight, behavior
change.
So...
I don't need to tell you this,but, you know, doing one thought
record is, you know, it'sprobably not going to be
life-changing, but it's one ofthose things that you add to

(02:30):
your toolbox of insight.
And that would be the goal forus today is to gain a little bit
more insight, areas where youexperience a certain intensity
of negative or difficultemotion.
We can maybe...
contain it a bit or reduce itsintensity.
Does that sound like areasonable goal for today?

(02:51):
Absolutely, yes.
Absolutely.
All right.
I am going to go ahead and sharemy screen.
Now, this thought record is alinear tool.
It's one of the most populartools in cognitive behavioral
therapy, and it allows us towork through a situation, a very
specific situation.

(03:12):
So in our initial call, wetalked about situations that
might bring up difficultfeelings for you and we
identified um that onechallenging situation is when
you're swiping on tinder soyou're on this dating app and
you start to become acutelyaware of people's professions

(03:34):
and especially that of youngerguys before we go and analyze
this anything else we need toknow about the the setting

SPEAKER_02 (03:42):
um Well, I'm at the point where I am, and I've put
it on my profile also, I'm notnecessarily looking for a
relationship.
Rather just, I guess, socialconnections, meeting up for a
drink and going with the flowand just, you know, becoming

(04:03):
maybe just friends or whatever.
Yes.
But definitely not in a space ofwanting

SPEAKER_01 (04:08):
relationships.
Absolutely.
I can appreciate that.
So let's dive right in.
When you think about thissituation or you recall this
situation, cause it's areoccurring one, right?
It's not one difficult momentyou had.
It's a recurring thing.
Tell me about some of thefeelings that come up when

(04:29):
you're aware of people'sprofessions.

SPEAKER_00 (04:35):
So, um, I'd say, yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (04:39):
first off, there's embarrassment.
There's resentment.

SPEAKER_00 (04:46):
Yeah, resentment.

SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
There's frustration.
And there's anger.
And a lot of it's internal

SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
towards myself.
Of course, yeah.
Look, this is a good list offeelings that have come up and
it wasn't too hard for you toidentify them, which is good.
So we've got embarrassed,resentful, frustration or
frustrated and angry.
I'm going to ask about a couplemore feelings because sometimes

(05:19):
it's nice to have to thicken itup a little bit or to fill the
bucket, as it were.
So let me know if any of thesefeelings resonate with you.
Sadness?

SPEAKER_00 (05:38):
Yeah, there's a degree of sadness, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 (05:44):
Is there any cynicism

SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
or skepticism?

SPEAKER_01 (05:50):
It's nihilism.
I'll put that down.
I mean, that is, I don't know ifnihilism is a feeling, but I, I
guess, you know, we'll, we'll gowith it.
How about ashamed or inadequate?

SPEAKER_02 (06:12):
Inadequate.
Inadequate is a nice one.
I think ashamed goes withembarrassed.
Definitely inadequate.

SPEAKER_01 (06:22):
Is there any Worry or fear or anxiety?
There is definitely anxiety.

SPEAKER_02 (06:33):
Okay.
There is fear as well, yes.
There's fear.

SPEAKER_01 (06:40):
Okay.
Anything else?

SPEAKER_02 (06:44):
There is a degree of...
excitement when one swapsbecause it's you know there's
that that that there's hopethere's excitement and there's
hope hoping that you um you knowyou find a match

SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
yes look even if the excitement is the smallest slice
of the pie chart when it comesto your feelings in the
situation it's still worthputting down so i've added
excitement and hope our nexttask is to rate each of these
emotions on a scale of one to10.
So 10 is the most intense thatyou feel it in this particular

(07:17):
situation, and one would be notintense at all.
So how would you rateembarrassment?

SPEAKER_02 (07:24):
I'd say a

SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
seven.
Okay, and resentful?
An

SPEAKER_00 (07:30):
eight.

SPEAKER_01 (07:32):
Frustration or frustrated?

SPEAKER_02 (07:34):
Also an eight.

SPEAKER_00 (07:37):
Angry?
Seven.
Sadness?
I'd say defeat.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
Nihilism?

SPEAKER_02 (07:54):
Currently a seven.

SPEAKER_01 (07:56):
Wow.
Okay.
Inadequate or inadequacy?
An

SPEAKER_00 (08:02):
eight.
Anxiety?
Six.
Fear.
Five.
Excitement.
Five.
And hope.

SPEAKER_01 (08:23):
Four.
Okay.
So when you're swiping and youfeel this range of things, what
do you tend to do?
We're in the next column herethat says behavior.
Do you keep swiping?
Do you stop?
Do you go for a jog?
Do you have a snack?
you send angry messages topeople what do you do it

SPEAKER_02 (08:44):
ranges so there are times when thoughts are fleeting
you know these are essentiallythe intrusive thoughts so and
i'm able to recognize that so itry to not ponder too much but
obviously there are days wherethey affect me more than others
so um yeah on those daysactually i'm currently i don't

(09:06):
have an app I deleted it.
So I go through these phaseswhere I'll delete it entirely
because I also find when Iprocrastinate, then I do want to
go on there.
And usually I'm procrastinatingbecause I'm supposed

SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
to be

SPEAKER_02 (09:18):
doing work.

SPEAKER_01 (09:19):
So tell me about the intrusive thoughts.
Now we're moving to the nextcolumn, which is called
automatic thoughts.
These are things that, you know,you don't have to work real hard
to come up with.
They pop into your mind.
What are those thoughts in thissituation?
You know, it's thoughts of

SPEAKER_02 (09:34):
inadequacy, feeling like I'm not good enough.
feeling like I am a failure.
Inadequacy creeps when I seeother people that are, even
though I don't know anythingabout them, I know it's really
silly, but yeah, I don't knowanything about their life, I
don't know anything about theirstruggles, but I see this
profession that they've donethis and they're doing this and

(09:55):
working for this company andimmediately I'm just like, whoa.
So also to lead back to why itis, so I have a job, but it's
not a very stimulating job.
So I work as a translator at adubbing studio where we
translate Turkish shows intoAfrikaans, which is one of the

(10:17):
languages here in South Africa.
So it's a simple job.
It's not difficult.
And it includes a form ofwriting, but it's not so much.
I don't really get anopportunity to be creative.
It's more technical.
So it's a job that becomes quitetedious.
And when I started, it was nice,it was fine, but I'm just

(10:42):
finding myself at a place whereI'm not really stimulated at the
moment.
And I'm doing this while I'mstill busy with a few creative
projects.
I'm busy writing a feature film,busy writing a short film, and
busy working on a theatre play.
So I am doing these creativethings, but I do find that
they're not, that I'm not aspassionate as I used to be.

(11:04):
So I'm feeling a loss.
And so all those things kind oflike muddle into one that adds
to this whole sense ofexistentialism.

SPEAKER_01 (11:14):
Okay.
You've said a lot of reallyhelpful things in terms of like
helping me understand whereyou're coming from.
Okay.
So the creative parts of yourlife, so not the translation
job, I guess that sounded coolto me, but you're saying it's
not stimulating.
It's tedious.
So I hear you.
So are you finding enough timefor the creative work or is the

(11:37):
paid work getting in the way ofthe creative work?

SPEAKER_02 (11:41):
The paid work is getting in the way of the
creative work.
Okay.
So

SPEAKER_01 (11:48):
my paid work gets in the way of my creative work.
And your creative work is thething you love.
And if you're, let's saymagically, you didn't have to do
the paid work and you couldfocus a lot on the creative

(12:08):
work, which from what Iunderstand is, would pay off in
monies later on, potentially.
If you could devote more time toit, would you feel better about
being on Tinder or Grindr orwhatever it is?
Like, would you feel moreaccomplished?
Would you feel like you'recomparing yourself less
negatively to others?

(12:30):
So

SPEAKER_02 (12:31):
devoting all my time to my craft and my writing and
editing would didn't necessarilyresult in financial stability in
the short term.
It could open doors and createopportunities later down the
road, but in the short term, notso much.
And so I asked myself, this iswhat you want to do.

(12:52):
And I'm kind of finding myselfin a space where I actually
can't answer that, where I feellike I've kind of lost my
passion and my drive a bit.
And I think that also results inthe feelings of, and I took some
feeling a bit lost career-wisebecause this thing that I always
thought I wanted, I'm not sosure I want anymore, but then I
don't actually know what it isin that I want.

(13:14):
So when I talk about comparingmyself on Tinder, it's actually
not so much about this otherperson, it's much more about me
and my own feelings because Iwant to be successful in what I
want to feel.
Yeah, I want to feel good aboutwhat it is that I'm doing and I
don't at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 (13:30):
So, okay.
I don't feel, I'm a bit lostcareer-wise and I don't feel
good about what I'm doing at themoment.
Now, you did say that on the onehand, there is a comparative
element.
You compare yourself to theseother people, but it's not like

(13:51):
you're saying, I want what theyhave.
You're more.
No, you're more like, I want tohave, I assume they've got some
kind of happiness and I want tohave that too.
Yes.
All right.
Let's go back to the firstcouple of things you had said,
which was I am not good enoughand I am a failure.
Those are those are bold thingsto say.

(14:12):
And they were the first thingsthat came out of your mouth.
So when you say I'm not goodenough, is that is that in terms
of the money in your bankaccount?
Is that in terms of yourcapacity for dating?
What is that about?
Tell me more.

SPEAKER_02 (14:32):
I feel like I've accomplished a lot of things.
I definitely have acknowledgedthat I've won awards.
I have been nominated forthings.
I've been finalist in things.
I've published play.
The work is respected.

(14:55):
I have a very high standard formyself in the sense that I know
what I'm capable of.
And I've never reached thatstandard because I've always
gotten along with doing the bareminimum.
I feel like I've managed tobamboozle people.
I'm one of those people thatleave things to the last minute.

(15:16):
So when I deadline, I will leaveit to the last minute.
And that's where I thrive.
But that's not how I want to doit.
as an artist, I want to dothings differently, but I've
just always struggled with timemanagement and with executive
functioning.
I have ADHD.
So yeah, I'm on stimulantmedication now, but I haven't

(15:36):
always been, and that's been areal struggle.

SPEAKER_01 (15:41):
Okay.
I'm just rearranging some ofyour thoughts here.
Cause there's a lot of them andthey're all very, they're all
poignant, right?
Like they're all so relevant andthey're really getting me to
think as well about the systemwe live in.
So you say, I struggle withexecutive function and task
management.

(16:01):
So that is a barrier youexperience, but then you say,
I'm not a hard worker, right?
And that's where we get, I'm notgood enough.
I'm a failure.
I should be working harder.
So when you say you're not ahard worker, is that because
you've gotten by at some pointswhere, doing the bare minimum or

(16:23):
because you did something lastminute as opposed to giving it
your full effort?
Yeah, I've gotten by with

SPEAKER_02 (16:30):
last minute and doing the bare minimum.

SPEAKER_01 (16:36):
Okay.
So if you have a block that youcan't push through, what do you
think that says about you orwhat do you think that that says
about your future?
Because I think there's a deeperfear or anxiety there.

SPEAKER_02 (16:58):
Yes, it is.
That's where the anxiety comesin because I have this fear
that, you know, I'm heading intoa point in my life where I find
kind of like I need to stopinstability and I just feel like
it's never going to come.
And that's kind of where thenihilism comes in because I'm
like, well, what is the point?
If no matter what I try, I'mjust always going to run into

(17:20):
this wall.
And that maybe even if I changeindustries, if I change jobs, if
I change, you know, that I'llkeep running into the wall.

SPEAKER_01 (17:31):
Okay.
So I've gotten by with doing thebare minimum, but I want to
work, but have a block, right?
And we're describing the blockas this wall.
And the consequence of that oryour fear is that I'll never
have stability or the wall willalways be an issue.
Or I don't know what the pointof trying is if I keep coming up

(17:55):
against the wall.
I'm going to move over to someof the other things you had
mentioned.
When you talk about you notnecessarily being completely
financially independent, ifpeople you were looking to go on
dates with, if they found outabout that or if you shared that

(18:15):
with them, what do you thinkthey would think about you?

SPEAKER_02 (18:20):
I think most people wouldn't care.
What do you think about that?
Well, that's where my feelingsof failure stem from.
Yeah, it's my pride,essentially, that makes me feel

(18:40):
less than inadequate.

SPEAKER_01 (18:43):
When you talk about pride and you also talk about
these specific milestones, age29, I'm on my way to 30, this is
what should be the case.
If it's not the case, does itmean that I'm not properly an
adult?
Is that the thought or thebelief?

(19:05):
Yeah.
If you're not properly an adult,what does that mean in terms of
your capacity for makingdecisions, employment, and being
in relationships?
Is there an impact?

SPEAKER_02 (19:22):
Well, definitely.
That's one of the reasons why I,at this moment in time, don't
want a relationship.
I feel like there's a lot ofinternal work that I need to do
and I need to figure out.
And I'm aware of all of thesethoughts and I don't want to put
all of this uncertainty into arelationship and take all that
baggage with.

SPEAKER_01 (19:42):
so yeah let's go slow here for a minute so you're
no because i know you're awareof that i know you're very aware
of all the things that are goingon but i think we're getting to
something that maybe we haven'tyet articulated so i'm not
properly an adult and thereforei'm not ready for a relationship

(20:04):
or if i bring this into arelationship what will happen
help me help me connect that

SPEAKER_02 (20:11):
I feel like I have a lot of baggage also related to
past traumas.
And so I feel like I need todeal with the traumas first.
And my past relationships andwhat I call them fail is because
I feel like it started offgreat.

(20:34):
There's the honeymoon phase.
And then I got to a point whereI felt trapped, where I felt I
felt suffocated and I felt likeI didn't want to be with this
person anymore.

SPEAKER_01 (20:49):
Okay.
So there's a new thoughtemerging here and it's a thought
that has to do with the storyyou're telling me, which is of
course a different situationthan swiping through Tinder, but
I'll write it out and you let meknow if it fits.
So I'm thinking one of your moresubconscious thoughts is

(21:09):
includes or is i'm notrelationship ready i'll feel
trapped and then i'll sabotageit i need to do trauma work and
be financially more stable firstit sounds to me like these are
the different pieces that aregoing on in your mind yes okay
terence i'm going to read outsome of your automatic thoughts

(21:32):
and what i want you to do is iwant you to think about this
particular experience on tinderSo you've told me we've gone in
two directions.
We've gone in the direction ofyour past relationships and
we've gone in the direction ofhow you feel about your career.
Tinder is a place where thesethings come together.

(21:53):
So let's find one automaticthought or one statement here
that you feel is most prominentand it's driving a lot of the
difficult feelings.
So I struggle with executivefunction and task management.
I'm not a hard worker.

(22:14):
I'm not good enough.
I'm a failure.
I should be working harder.
I've gotten by with doing thebare minimum, but I want to
work, but I have a block.
I'll never have stability.
The wall will always be anissue.
I don't know what the point oftrying is if I keep coming up
against the wall.
I'm still struggling withfinancial independence at age

(22:36):
29.
I'm not properly an adult.
I'm not fit to be in arelationship.
I need to do trauma work and bemore financially stable first.
I'm not relationship ready.
I'll feel trapped and then I'llsabotage it.
I need to do trauma work and befinancially more stable first.
Of these, what stands out to youas really capturing the

(23:01):
difficult feelings you have?

SPEAKER_02 (23:04):
I'd say the I'm struggling with financial
independence at age 29.
I'm not probably an adult andI'm not fit to be in a
relationship.
I need to do my work and befinancially more stable.
I'd say that whole section.

SPEAKER_01 (23:15):
That whole section.
Okay.
I'll tell you now that is a veryloaded thought and it's, it's
more than one thought, butbecause we're only doing one
session, we only have one kickat the can, so to speak.
So, um, in a, in, In a moretypical cognitive behavioral
therapy treatment or setting, wewould break the standard and do

(23:38):
multiple thought records.
But here we're going to takethis whole thought, this whole
big thought, and we're going towork with it.
Now, can you give me someevidence that supports that
thought?
We're going to call it the hotthought.
It's the one that's mostsalient.
So you could even give meevidence that supports each
piece of it.
So evidence that supports that.

(24:00):
you're not properly an adult,you've told me that, right?
Not financially independent.
Yeah.
What tells you, what's evidencethat you're not fit to be in a
relationship?

SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
My history of sabotaging relationships.

SPEAKER_01 (24:21):
Okay.
And so in being self-aware anddoing therapeutic
self-reflection and even youknow, being in recovery, like
you're not you're not drinkinganymore, right?
Does has that shifted the wayyou're able to be in connection
with people?

SPEAKER_02 (24:40):
Well, yes, my sobriety has become worth a
sense of awareness of myself.
I mean, one one really positivepart of it is that I feel like I
know who I am.
I have a better understanding ofmyself and I continuously I'm
learning new things aboutmyself.

(25:02):
This is, and yeah, it definitelyshaped, I guess, the way I
perceive relationships andfriendship.
And yeah, I think if I wasn'tsober, I'd probably still just
be falling for someone after thefirst date and telling them I
love them after a

SPEAKER_01 (25:19):
month or whatever.
Okay.
So here's evidence that supportsthat.
your hot thought.
One, I'm not financiallyindependent, right?
And like it or not, that's howyou've constructed in your mind
what adulthood is.
So you say, I'm not properly anadult.
I say, why?
You say, I'm not financiallyindependent.
I won't argue with it.
That becomes a kind of evidencethat supports that thought.

(25:41):
The other big thought here isI'm not fit to be in a
relationship.
What's the evidence?
Well, my history of sabotagingrelationships.
If somebody said, hey, Terrence,do you think you need to sort
out your trauma while you're ina relationship, or is it a
prerequisite?
You know, you might say, okay,well, my evidence here is that
my therapeutic self-reflectionand my sobriety has helped me

(26:04):
with understanding myself, whichof course would be better for a
future relationship.
And also if I wasn't sober andthe way you do seek the current
therapy is, you know, you go toyour AA meetings.
So if you, if you weren't inthat space, you'd be in
unhealthy relationship patterns,right?
So all of this evidence supportsthe way you've been thinking,

(26:28):
right?
Now, I want you to come up withsome evidence that does not
support these ideas.
So give me some evidence thatyou are properly an adult.
So I'm an adult when I do what?

SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
I'm an adult when I pay my bills, when I'm looking
for work, when I'm looking forjobs.
Taking the time to self-reflectand to grow.

SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
And if I may add, when you stick with the job that
feels tedious because it paysyour bills.
Yeah.
That doesn't bring you joy, butthat's adulting, isn't it?
Yeah, that is adulting 101.
When you say you're not fit tobe in a relationship, give me
some evidence that suggests youare fit to be in a relationship.

SPEAKER_02 (27:22):
a strong sense of self-awareness.

SPEAKER_01 (27:27):
And how does that help in a relationship?
When there is conflict.
Exactly.
This idea that you need to domore trauma work or you need to
be more financially stable asprerequisites for a
relationship.
I want you to challenge thatjust a touch.

(27:47):
I'm not saying go on acompletely different path, but
is there some evidence in yourlife that that relationships are
possible and other people willbe interested in you even when
you haven't done the trauma workor you're not super financially
stable

SPEAKER_02 (28:03):
oh definitely um all i mean all my past like all my
past relationships happened whenneither of those things when i
you know when i wasn'tfinancially stable

SPEAKER_01 (28:18):
so I'm just going to write lots of people were into
me before.
All right.
So you've got this amalgamatedhot thought.
I'm not properly an adult.
I'm not fit to be in arelationship.
I need to do trauma work and befinancially stable before I'm in
a relationship.
Right.
And then you've got evidencethat supports that idea.
And then you've got evidencethat does not.

(28:41):
And the evidence is that doesnot says, well, I'm an adult
already.
When I pay my bills, seekemployment, invest in personal
development and stick with atedious job.
I have a strong sense ofself-awareness.
That's a relationship quality.
It helps me resolve conflict.
And I don't necessarily need todo a bunch of things before I'm
relationship ready.
Lots of people were into mebefore.

(29:02):
So look, what I'd like for youto do now is come up with an
alternative thought.
Something alternative whileyou're swiping on Tinder
specifically, and you'rethinking to yourself, I'm not
properly an adult.
I'm not fit to be in arelationship.
What can you say to yourself inresponse to the hot thought?

(29:23):
Something that's a bit moreaffirming, but balanced.
The fact that we're all on anindividual journey.
And so if people are on anindividual journey, I just want
you to go a bit deeper.
So the people who've got thefancy jobs and presumably
cushioned bank accounts, whatdoes that mean?

(29:44):
So for all I know, they've

SPEAKER_02 (29:48):
had quite easy and they've had it.
Yeah.
They've just had a slightlydifferent life and they've made
different choices and that's,impact the life that they're
living now.

SPEAKER_01 (30:02):
Yeah.
And how would they think aboutyou?
Would they understand you as anadult?
Do you think they would see youas being fit to be in a
relationship?
Yeah, I guess they think so.
What would they appreciate aboutyou?
Or how would they arrive at thisidea that, hey, Terrence maybe

(30:22):
doesn't earn the amount I do ordoesn't have the kind of job
title I have.
But he's a good bloke.
I'd date him.
What would get

SPEAKER_02 (30:31):
them there?
I think self-awareness, mypersonality.
I like to think that I am a kindperson, an understanding person,
empathetic person.

SPEAKER_01 (30:47):
And do you think that you're worthy of a
relationship, even if youhaven't done the trauma work?
I definitely think that I'mworthy.

SPEAKER_02 (30:55):
Without a doubt, it's just a case of maybe not
being ready as opposed to beingworthy.

SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
Okay.
So I'm worthy of relationships,just perhaps not ready.
Now, Terrence, if somebody saysor somebody is put off or not
that interested in you becauseon paper, you're not
accomplished in the ways thatthey are with the job titles,
the professions, what do youtell yourself?

(31:26):
I

SPEAKER_02 (31:27):
would think it's unreasonable for this person to
think that because that's justone part of me.
Well, saying that a lot makes merealize that I've been
unreasonable.

SPEAKER_01 (31:40):
And if they're judging you unreasonably, are
they a good candidate to be in arelationship with you?
No.
No,

SPEAKER_02 (31:50):
no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 (31:54):
Cause then you're not reject.
They're not rejecting you.
You're rejecting them.
Oh yeah.
Okay.
We've got four really strongalternative thoughts.
I'm going to read them out.
And as I do, I want you to thinkabout which one rings most true
to you, but also like not justmost true, but which one do you

(32:17):
believe in?
What do you find most helpful inyour body?
Okay.
So, So we're all on anindividual journey.
People with nice job titles mayhave a different struggle.
Other guys will have toappreciate my self-awareness,
personality, and empathy.
I'm worthy of relationships,just perhaps not ready.
If I were in one now, I'dapproach things differently than

(32:39):
I have in the past.
If I'm judged by others about mycareer, that would be
unreasonable.
I don't want to be with themanyway.

SPEAKER_02 (32:49):
Definitely the first one.

SPEAKER_01 (32:51):
The first one.
All right.
So as you think about thesealternative thoughts, but
particularly the first one,right?
I want you to just meditate onit for a moment.
Think about yourself scrollingthrough Tinder or swiping on
Tinder.
And you really embrace this ideathat you're on individual
journeys.
How would you rate yourintensity of embarrassment?

(33:15):
Two.
Okay.
How about resentful?
One.

SPEAKER_00 (33:23):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (33:25):
What about frustrated?

SPEAKER_00 (33:26):
One.

SPEAKER_01 (33:31):
Angry.
One.
Sad.
One.
Okay.
Nihilism.
One.
Inadequate.
One.

(33:52):
Anxious.
Fear.

SPEAKER_00 (33:57):
Excitement.
Hope.

SPEAKER_01 (34:13):
Did you say eight?
Okay, cool.
So you completed the thoughtrecord.
Are there any new feelings thatcome up for you as you embrace
the alternative thought?

SPEAKER_02 (34:32):
A sense of hope, to be frank.
Yeah.
In realizing that I think a lotof my thoughts have been
unreasonable.
Yeah.
I think when I started...
When we got to the point ofevidence that does not support

(34:54):
our thoughts as well as ouralternative thoughts, it really
flipped on its head how I'vemaybe thought of myself, how
I've been maybe a bitunreasonable and to be a lot
kinder to myself and acknowledgethe fact I have Made it through

(35:19):
a lot.

SPEAKER_01 (35:21):
If I can quote Beyonce, it won't break my soul.
Like you're not going to let itbreak your soul, right?
I think you're activelyresisting grind culture and how
the world makes you feel bad andyou just can't let it break your
soul.

(35:41):
Release, I'm releasing it all.
Terrence.
Thank you to you and thank youto our listeners.
This has been an episode of theCBT Dive.
See you next time.
That's our CBT Shorts episodefor today.
I'm Rahim Thawar and thank youfor joining us.
Please subscribe wherever youget your podcasts.
If you want more content fromus, check out our other social

(36:02):
media platforms.
The CBT Dive is intended foreducational purposes and not
meant as a replacement fortherapy.
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