July 9, 2024 • 38 mins
Instead of exploring thoughts patterns using CBT this episode, Rahim interviews somatic counsellor Megan Blair, who then guides him through a mini session where Rahim plays the role of the client who is encouraged to explore what his body is experiencing and what insight it can give him.
They discuss the practice of somatic experiencing and its focus on the mind-body connection. Megan explains that somatic counselling is a body-based practice that looks at the mind-body connection and uses various modalities such as somatic experiencing, Internal Family Systems, and Focusing. They explore how somatic counselling can help individuals with social anxiety and how it focuses on cultivating an inner sense of knowing and regulating the nervous system.
The conversation emphasises the importance of cultivating curiosity and giving voice to different parts of oneself. It delves into the concept of feeling heard and understood, and the need for alignment and attunement within oneself.
#somatic #mindbodyconnection #somatictherapy #internalfamilysystems #nervoussystem #nervoussystemregulation #nervoussystemhealing
ABOUT THE CBT DIVE PODCAST
The CBT Dive is a video podcast that brings therapy skills to the real world. Each episode welcomes a new guest who wants to explore a challenging situation using the most common cognitive behavioural therapy tool: the thought record.
ABOUT HOST
Rahim Thawer is a queer, racialized social worker and psychotherapist based in Toronto. He's created The CBT Dive podcast to support folks who want to learn how to use a thought record and to demystify what therapy can look like.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hello, everyone.
Welcome to the CBT Dive.
Today, we have a special guest.
Her name is Megan Blair.
She's a counselor who focuses onsomatic experiencing.
I'm really excited to take aback seat and not be the
therapist in this session andsee what I can learn from
getting out of my mind and intomy body.
(00:32):
Megan.
How are you doing?
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
I'm doing super well.
I'm super excited to be on thispodcast with
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
you.
I'm excited to have you.
I was just reflecting on how wemet the other day because people
asked me if I made any friendswhile I was in Puerto Vallarta.
Yeah.
And I said, yeah.
I met one friend and her name isMegan and I met her at yoga.
(01:03):
Yes.
And she's a therapist.
And now I know you don't alwayscall yourself a therapist.
You go by different titles, butI've been excited and interested
in your work since we've met.
So let's start off with whatkind of therapeutic practice do
you do?
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
Sure.
I mean, just like what you mightsay, it's always a holistic
approach, right?
UNKNOWN (01:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
But my training specifically is in somatic
practices and mindful-basedpractices.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Ah, I like that.
I like the language.
I'm going to ask you to help mepick it apart a bit.
So a lot of my listeners knowwhat cognitive behavioral
therapy is.
And because of the state ofsocial media, whether people
realize it or not.
(01:55):
They know what psychodynamictherapy is because they're often
thinking about trauma responsesand the unconscious and
attachment.
But you do somatic counseling,right?
And so could you tell us whatsomatic counseling is?
SPEAKER_01 (02:11):
Yeah.
It's an umbrella term.
that is used in the field todescribe body-based practices.
And so looking at the mind-bodyconnection.
So they've kind of branchedapart into different modalities.
SPEAKER_00 (02:33):
Like
SPEAKER_01 (02:35):
maybe some of your listeners know what somatic
experiencing is.
But some other ones, like PeterLevine, he started that in the
1970s.
But others might be internalfamily systems.
Dick Schwartz started that.
And also focusing, EugeneGendlin started that.
(02:55):
And it's kind of like they wereall kind of, a lot of them were
part of the same group.
And so like one of them helpedstart the other.
And They're all, there's a lotof crossover and even what
you're describing in looking atattachment styles is very much a
part of a lot of thesemodalities as well.
So I think the simple way todescribe it is it just, it
(03:18):
places importance on the mindbody connection as the focus of
intervention.
SPEAKER_00 (03:22):
Okay.
Okay.
So we're focusing a lot on thebody and you use this term
somatic experiencing and itjust, stood out to me that you
didn't say experience likesomething in the past it's
something that's ongoing
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
so i like to just really start with looking at the
lay of the land for you whatdoes that feel like for you in
your body because it's going tobe different for everybody right
what's important about this isthat it is so like a lot of
modalities and psychotherapiesit's always client but it has to
work for the client for theindividual
SPEAKER_00 (04:00):
right and When we talk about the mind-body
connection, is our premise thatthat connection is poor to begin
with?
Or do we live in a world thatmakes that connection ruptured
(04:24):
in some way?
I'm trying to figure this partout.
SPEAKER_01 (04:28):
No, that's a really good question.
I don't think that I think of alot of our therapeutic
modalities or talk therapy,right?
We're always interested in thecognition and what's going on in
our brains.
But really, there is so muchknowledge that is constantly
being taken in through the bodyand more specifically, the
nervous system.
And I listened to your podcast,you've talked about the nervous
(04:49):
system.
So maybe some of your listenershave already been turned on to
talking about listening aboutthe autonomic nervous system.
But I feel like it's a just adifferent way of entry, you
know?
And that's why we say both themind and the body, because it's
not either or.
It's that connection between thetwo of them.
And what's really importantabout this field of study is
(05:14):
that safety isn't something thatwe can realize through
cognition.
It's something that we need tofeel in the body, right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:20):
I see.
SPEAKER_01 (05:21):
Yeah.
So we're constantly taking ininformation from our
environment, from inside ofourselves, through dynamics,
through relationship.
And so how can we start to tunein to how we take in information
through the nervous system?
SPEAKER_00 (05:37):
What do you think?
Well, I'm kind of thinking aboutif I were a client, how would
I...
understand a session or howwould I know that I came to
therapy and I did what I wassupposed to or that I had a good
session?
I'm trying to figure out withsomatic work, like, do I leave a
(06:06):
session feeling frustrated?
And then the therapist says,yeah, that's what being in your
body is.
Or do we spend, like, do I comein and talk about a problem and
And then you might say, okay,hold on to that problem.
And I'm going to redirect you todo a bunch of exercises that get
you in your body.
And then we approach thatproblem again.
(06:27):
I'm trying to figure out how asession would look and how I
might know that I'm like doingit.
I'm doing it right.
That feels important
SPEAKER_01 (06:37):
to me.
No, those are really goodquestions.
And of course, like you might befrustrated sometimes, you know
what I mean?
Like we might hit that upper endof what feels...
comfortable, right?
And I call those the pointyedges.
And I think that there's theright level of hard work that
it's not going to overwhelm likewe talked about before but we
(07:00):
want to be challenged in oursessions you know i know
cognitive behavioral therapyfocuses a lot on homework i
really love experientialsessions so in the here and now
we're going to do this togetherif that feels right so
personally i really if there waslike a problem that a client
might be bringing up in asession, I might bring it into
(07:23):
an experiential, I call themexperiments, you know, and try
this off because also if itdoesn't work, if a client says,
I hated this, that's goodinformation too, you know?
So it's never on the binary oflike, is this good?
Is this bad?
It's, um, was this useful to youor why wasn't this useful to
you?
(07:43):
And it's all good information.
I
SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
see.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
Okay.
Okay.
So I've got a good, you've gotme thinking about this.
And a follow up for me then isabout success from your
perspective.
So can you share maybe ananecdote or a story where you're
(08:10):
working with somebody over onesession or several sessions and
you see I'm curious about howyou understand the progress and
what you would label as asuccess for that person or how
you would label it as a successtogether.
SPEAKER_01 (08:27):
Yes.
I can tell a story about a pastclient and how I measured that,
how I saw that as success.
I had a past client that had afew different ethnic identities
in former Yugoslavia.
And they were at ends with eachother.
(08:51):
So there was some internalconflict that was happening.
And we used a modality that'scalled focusing.
And within this practice, it's alot of cultivating what they
call a self and presence.
But it's just an objectiveperspective.
Can we cultivate an objectiveperspective just to see what's
(09:12):
going on in the body?
So doing a body scan, seeingwhat's there.
And then when something comesup, a part comes up that wants
to be worked with, we can startto create dialogue with that
part.
We can start to see, is therepatterns of other parts that
light up?
And we can also see what itwants from its perspective, what
it doesn't want you toexperience.
(09:34):
So it's something that we workedon for a while together.
And, um, holding those differentbackgrounds within herself.
And then last summer, she wentback to her home countries and
was able to travel there, feelresourced enough to go to these
different countries.
(09:54):
And also with the I guess, withthe grace of knowing that hard
things were going to come up,right?
So the end goal of this isn'tthat you're not going to have to
write hard emails.
You're not going to have to havehard conversations with your
partner.
It's that I feel like I knowmyself well enough to know
(10:15):
what's too much and what are mytools when things get to be too
much.
And then really that...
that measure of success for meis the flexibility of the
nervous system.
How can it come out ofregulation and then come back
into regulation?
And she felt resourced enoughand she felt that was supported
(10:37):
enough to face some hard things.
So I call that success in mymind, even though hard things
happened, you know?
Of course.
SPEAKER_00 (10:48):
Yeah.
I totally hear that.
Thank you for that.
So, I just want to recap whatI've heard you say.
I've been taking some noteshere.
So some of the things you saidin terms of somatic
experiencing, you've kind oftold us what some of the
interventions and techniquesare.
So there's education or what youwould call psychoeducation
(11:13):
around the nervous system.
and the window of tolerance.
So when you're feeling reallyactivated or you're under
activated, either way, it's aresponse to being triggered and
you're just not in your optimalzone.
And then you've talked aboutawareness building.
So you've educated people on thenervous system and now it's
(11:34):
their own kind of awareness ofwhat is too much, what is hyper
and what is hypo aroused for me.
And that's in their contextrelative to other events and
settings.
I really like the language youused around experiential work
and doing experiments.
And from what I gathered,experiments happen in the
(11:57):
session and outside the session.
And an example of experiments isparts work.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
You got it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
Okay.
And parts work is something Iknow about through Gestalt.
Okay.
but it's similar to internalfamily systems.
And I didn't realize it's partof somatic experiencing, but
you've made that very clearbecause it's about doing
something in the moment and thenreflecting on what it feels
like.
(12:28):
The last thing that youmentioned that I thought was
really interesting was you usethis language of she felt
resourced enough.
And so I've heard this inpassing from people that we're
gonna work on resourcing orinternal resourcing.
What does that, can you expandon that language a bit?
(12:49):
So what does it mean when atherapist says we're gonna work
on your resourcing or make youfeel more resourced?
SPEAKER_01 (12:57):
Yeah, and it's something that we've kind of
mentioned before is thatinternal sense of knowing is
really important to thatinternal resourcing, right?
So even resourcing might bepractice with interrelationship
focusing and being able to usethat as a tool if feeling super
(13:18):
activated, maybe just goinginternal into the body and
saying what's here and thenseeing if a part is here that
wants to be worked with, youknow?
And I think a great thing aboutthis is just holding the
multiplicity that we all have.
Instead of over-identifyingwith, I am sad, I am mad, it's
saying a part of me is sad.
(13:39):
A part of me also might bejoyful.
A part of me also might befilled with grief.
And so it's just really holdingthe multiplicity of all these
different parts that we have.
But going back to your originalquestion, kind of straying here,
is that...
Resourcing could be a lot ofdifferent things, but mostly I
(14:00):
think the key in this practiceis cultivating an inner sense of
knowing.
SPEAKER_00 (14:06):
Okay.
An inner sense of knowing.
If we were to do a little roleplay, would you be able to be my
somatic counselor for a moment?
Because I could use this rightnow.
Sure.
Okay.
Would you be willing to trythat?
Okay, so I'll tell you reallybriefly what I'm going, like
(14:29):
what's going on in my life.
And that is just that I'membarking on a lot of change.
And I am someone whotheoretically likes adventure
and change, but the process istough.
It's anxiety inducing.
(14:50):
There's a level of misery.
I feel like there's not enoughtime.
There's anxiety about thefuture.
And I know once I move to thenext place, so I'm about to
actually move to another cityand state, and I know very well
that the adjustment time will belonger than what I anticipate
(15:15):
because it always is.
And so...
I'm just throwing this at you,but I do wonder if you've got an
experiment for me or a way tohelp me know better my internal
(15:36):
self.
SPEAKER_01 (15:37):
I love this.
And I love that you're curiousand open and also willing to be
vulnerable and just throw outwhat's happening for you now.
Do you feel comfortable closingyour eyes and going inward?
SPEAKER_00 (15:52):
Yes, I'm here.
SPEAKER_01 (15:54):
Okay.
So I'm going to do a little bitof lead in.
And so that is just going tojust bring awareness to the
body.
So I'll be doing that.
So you're invited to close youreyes if you'd like.
I'm starting to feel the edgesof the body, what your feet are
(16:16):
resting on, what your hands areresting on.
Maybe feeling what you'resitting on, what your back is
resting on.
Just noticing you pressingagainst that area and that area
pressing against you in thatcontact.
(16:42):
And then starting to go a littlebit more inward, starting with
the head, asking yourself, how'sthe head doing today?
Any sensations there or lack ofsensation, that's also good
information.
Sometimes people see images orcolors, there's no right way of
(17:07):
doing this.
Going down to your neck, tuninginto your neck, how is your neck
doing today?
down into your chest, tuning inhere.
(17:33):
And then tracing the line ofawareness down into our left
arm.
And then going over to the otherside and tracing the right arm
(17:56):
coming back to the center andmoving down to the stomach,
moving down into the pelvis, andthen moving down into the left
(18:16):
leg.
And this is a big area, somaking sure that you're taking
your time, noticing any anysensations in this area of your
left leg.
Then coming over to our rightleg.
(18:43):
And then lastly, let's see if wecan just zoom out on a macro
level and just taking in thewhole body, maybe even around
the body and just askingourselves what's going on with
our bodies today.
And then bringing in that focusfor today, the whole thing
(19:07):
around all of the changes, allof the moving, and then just
seeing how that lands in thebody.
When something comes up, youmight let me know.
SPEAKER_00 (19:25):
You know, the two things that really came up, like
I noticed when you asked me tobreathe differently or actually
you asked me to move the scanfrom my right arm, then back to
my chest and my stomach, I wassuddenly breathing deeper.
And as soon as I breatheddeeper, I thought to myself, oh
(19:49):
my gosh, I'm so thirsty.
And it made me think, have I notbeen aware that I've been
thirsty for probably some time?
SPEAKER_01 (19:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:02):
And then I thought, okay, let's keep going.
We did the scan.
And you said the leg is a bigpart and I'm sitting
cross-legged.
So it's still the same size.
It's still a big part, but it'soverlapping another part.
(20:23):
And I'm kind of all, tucked inin a way.
And sometimes I sit like that,not always.
And so just being aware of it, Ithought like, I'm really, I want
to say like closed in some way,not feeling particularly open.
(20:50):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:52):
Right.
And something's in you feelingclosed.
SPEAKER_00 (20:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And maybe we can kind of stickwith that part of what would it
be like just to close the eyesand go back in and really feel
into that closed part there.
Is there a certain place in thebody or is it just kind of some
movement happening?
UNKNOWN (21:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
Well, I'm thinking like, it's hard for me to feel
the close part, but I'm thinkingabout it.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (21:40):
that's good awareness.
SPEAKER_00 (21:45):
And the part of me that's closed is kind of like,
if I try to focus on it, animage comes up of like, dragging
something you know like dragginga lot of dead weight and it just
makes like makes me think abouteverything i have going on right
(22:11):
now where whether it's fun andsocial or it's work productive
something whether the deadlineis passed or something that I
have lots of time to do, I'mjust like closed and I'm
(22:34):
dragging my feet.
And this morning, yeah, I'm justlike dragging it, dragging it.
And this morning I looked at mycalendar and I just like emailed
a bunch of people and canceled abunch of things.
And I just...
Everything feels heavy, and Ithink that closedness, the
(22:58):
dragging, is my state of being.
I don't know what it's tellingme, but I think I'm shutting
down a bit.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
Mm-hmm.
In this moment, you feelyourself shutting down.
SPEAKER_00 (23:18):
Yeah.
Yes, not with you specifically,but when I reflect on the
change, yeah, I'm like shuttingdown.
I want to cave into the closedpart.
SPEAKER_01 (23:34):
You want to cave into this closed part.
There's a desire to want to goto this closed part.
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Look, I'm not seeing it as bad.
I'm seeing it as like...
barrier not what i was supposedto do but i want to just listen
to it and i want to just behorizontal on my couch endlessly
it's like what i
SPEAKER_01 (23:57):
want and you know i'm not sure as far as recording
but maybe in a session we wouldexperiment with that right we
would say what would it be likeif now we went to and did
horizontal you know so
SPEAKER_00 (24:11):
that
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
might be something to play with but And checking in
to make sure that that is theright description here is that
something feels heavy and alsosomething feels like it's
dragging along and it's closed.
And just feeling into thatdescription because also you
have permission to change it oradd to it, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (24:37):
Yeah.
I think...
think I would keep it?
I mean, it's similar to likedragging a suitcase uphill, but
kind of thinking, I don't knowwhat's in this thing.
I just don't know.
Heavy.
(24:57):
Like what is in it even?
Who picked this route?
SPEAKER_01 (25:05):
Yeah.
That's interesting.
It feels like a suitcase beingdragged up a hill.
SPEAKER_00 (25:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And And maybe we could just,from that objective perspective,
seeing if we can cultivate thatsense of curiosity and then
feeling into this part that'sheavy and dragging the suitcase
up a hill.
Yeah.
Let's just see if we can givesome voice and agency to this
(25:31):
part.
And also noticing when we startto blend with this part, you
know, it might be somethingthat's pretty close right now.
And it might be something that,we want to start to identify
with.
And that's okay if that happenstoo, but being aware of that
too.
So feeling like we can maybejust give the mic over to this
(25:54):
part that is heavy and draggingthe suitcase up a hill and wants
to close and wants to behorizontal.
And what kind of company wouldthis part want from you?
SPEAKER_00 (26:11):
What kind of company?
That's a great question.
I think that part wants me toconsult with them because that
part is thinking, why am I doingthis?
I'm not sure it makes sense.
I only want to do things thatmake sense.
(26:34):
And that part wants me to thinklike them, and be less directive
and instead consider what I'mdoing to that part.
SPEAKER_01 (26:49):
So it has something to say.
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
It does.
SPEAKER_01 (26:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:55):
It's protesting, in fact, I think.
SPEAKER_01 (26:58):
It's protesting.
SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
What is it protesting here?
I think that part of me issaying, stop.
And like only make me work if itleads to something, if it makes
sense.
SPEAKER_01 (27:20):
Only leads to something and only makes sense.
Yeah.
And how do you receive thatmessage?
SPEAKER_00 (27:32):
I think I feel like a bit, called out or like a bit
embarrassed because myscatteredness is being seen by
another part of me.
A
SPEAKER_01 (27:49):
part's feeling a bit exposed here.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:54):
Yeah.
The decision-making part of meis feeling exposed.
SPEAKER_01 (27:58):
Yeah.
So there's another part online Ihear, that protesting part and
that embarrassed, exposed part.
So there's a couple of differentparts that are happening here.
And also maybe just reallytaking in what that heavy
suitcase part has to say.
It's saying it's protesting andmaybe just really letting that
(28:19):
part know that you heard it oryou understood it.
Maybe that's what they need tohear back or, or no wonder
they're feeling that way becauseof everything that's going on.
Maybe see what it feels like forthat part to feel heard.
SPEAKER_00 (28:33):
Yes.
I mean, I think through thisprocess, that part feels more
heard just because we'veidentified that third part.
Yeah.
But if I were to talk back tothat part, I might say, okay, I
(28:54):
hear you.
I'm going to stop adding thingsto the calendar and making big
plans.
or pulling us in differentdirections.
I'm gonna sit with you and lookat you and feel our joint energy
to see what makes sense as thenext step.
SPEAKER_01 (29:17):
What makes sense as the next step.
SPEAKER_00 (29:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:20):
Yeah.
And how was that received?
SPEAKER_00 (29:28):
I think the protest part is...
I don't want to say happier nowbecause it's like, it's tired,
but I think more content withthe prospect of like synergy and
(29:48):
attunement.
SPEAKER_01 (29:50):
Yeah.
It's letting you know that thatpart of synergy is really what
it's wanting.
It sounds like.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:01):
Does that sound correct?
It's a yes from this part.
UNKNOWN (30:04):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (30:05):
yes good and just seeing if more dialogue wants to
happen here or maybe this is aplace of that it is complete for
now if there's anything elsethat wants to be said in this
moment
SPEAKER_00 (30:35):
I think the protest part has a lot more to say, but
maybe it doesn't have to happennow.
When I tune into that part,really, it is mad.
I think it's saying, it wouldsay, we can do much more if we
(31:03):
work together
SPEAKER_01 (31:05):
But
SPEAKER_00 (31:06):
also you're misusing me.
SPEAKER_01 (31:08):
There's
SPEAKER_00 (31:11):
a limit to how much I can lift or drag or push.
SPEAKER_01 (31:16):
It sounds like this part is worried about something.
Does that sound right?
SPEAKER_00 (31:22):
I think this part is worried about getting all used
up and then being criticized fornot being able to continue
moving.
SPEAKER_01 (31:36):
It's worried about being used up and being
criticized about not moving.
SPEAKER_00 (31:43):
Yeah.
Because the bigger part of methat makes all the decisions at
the end of the day does, willsay, like I will say to myself,
I guess even to this part, wedidn't do enough today.
We didn't do what we set out todo.
It wasn't as organized or linearas it could have been.
(32:04):
We're going to try againtomorrow.
And so that sounds likepositive, but it's a criticism.
SPEAKER_01 (32:12):
That's great self-awareness of knowing that
criticism that's coming onlinetoo.
It's part of criticism.
It's part of protection maybe insome ways.
SPEAKER_00 (32:21):
Yeah.
I think both parts, the protestpart and the now embarrassed,
but decision-making part bothknow that, that a lot can be
accomplished with goodalignment.
SPEAKER_01 (32:38):
And maybe just taking a moment to really let
them know that you hear that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:48):
Yeah, the decision-making part is saying,
I hear that.
You're totally right.
Let's give ourselves time tosync up.
SPEAKER_01 (33:00):
Let's get into the area.
Time to sync up.
SPEAKER_00 (33:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
And you might let these parts know that you can
return to them.
It sounds like that they areneeding, are requesting more
audience.
And you might just want to letthem know that this is a place
that you can return to.
SPEAKER_00 (33:18):
We'll be back.
SPEAKER_01 (33:22):
We'll be back.
SPEAKER_00 (33:25):
Thank
SPEAKER_01 (33:29):
you for that.
(33:56):
And
SPEAKER_00 (33:58):
it's helping me or it helped me just connect with
myself.
Like I feel less scattered, abit less fragmented.
SPEAKER_01 (34:11):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (34:14):
I will say it did feel like it's like a kind of
emotional mental work to respondwhen you say, what does this
part want to say to that part?
Or is that part sayingsomething?
You know, like to me, that waslike, oh, this is, and I know
it's meant to be work, but Ijust want to articulate that
that is not easy.
It takes some focus.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
Yeah, that's interesting.
And I think that's why I alsoreally like experiential in
session things is that we cankind of, you know, also I think
a big part of it is hearing itback.
Like, what was it like for youto say, like, oh, this part is
protesting?
(34:58):
What is it like to hear thosethings back and reflected to
you?
And it might be, ah, that's notquite right.
It's not really protesting.
It's just going into collapse,actually.
Or, you know, like...
SPEAKER_00 (35:12):
I think, like, from a somatic perspective, you
bypass a lot of the jargon andthe language and the memes and
the TikToks, and we go to,like...
hey how does this feel in thissituation in this context with
this person when you think aboutthis event when you approach
(35:35):
this time of year how does itlook feel sound taste how do you
imagine it and what meaning doyou make of that and so i i'm
really drawn to like the somaticway of being, particularly after
this experience with you.
(35:55):
For me, I'm always just a bitscared, I think, because you
know that I do cognitivebehavioral therapy and I do
psychodynamic therapy andgestalt is a small part of my
practice.
And I think that's because Ifrankly have to be a bit less
(36:17):
vulnerable when I do thosemodalities.
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
both
SPEAKER_00 (36:22):
as a patient and as the therapist.
SPEAKER_01 (36:27):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (36:28):
Whereas when I have to be in my body and really
attuned, I'm more vulnerable.
I'm doing a different kind ofwork.
I'm exercising another kind ofmuscle that I'm not that
familiar with, frankly.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:46):
Yeah.
Thank you for saying that too.
Because I think aspractitioners, we're always
asking ourselves, how much do weput ourselves out there to
clients?
What's appropriate and what'stoo much, you know?
And I think that's a questionthat many, many, many
practitioners have in allmodalities.
(37:08):
Because as we all know, thatclient relationship leads to a
lot of patient success as well.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (37:17):
Totally.
SPEAKER_01 (37:17):
So it's really important.
But how do we do that?
That's appropriate.
SPEAKER_00 (37:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:26):
And that exists in somatics as well.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (37:29):
Absolutely.
Yes.
Thank you so much, Megan, forbeing on the CBT dive, talking
to us about a bunch of stuffthat's not CBT, which I think is
super important, frankly, right?
I think opening up to amultitude of modalities that
(37:50):
help us get to know ourselves isreally important.
And I'm honored to have met youin this way because you're like
adding to my knowledge, youknow?
So thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (38:02):
You as well.
It's a great podcast and I'mlike really happy to be here on
this podcast and also with
SPEAKER_00 (38:07):
you.
Yeah, take care.
We hope you enjoyed thatexperience.
I certainly did.
Thank you again to Megan Blair,our special guest for today.
If you're interested in somaticcounseling and some of Megan's
work, you can find her onInstagram or Google Megan Blair.
Thank you for joining us at theCBT Diet, and we hope to see you
(38:28):
again.
UNKNOWN (38:30):
Thank you.
Hello, everyone.
Welcome to the CBT Dive.
Today, we have a special guest.
Her name is Megan Blair.
She's a counselor who focuses onsomatic experiencing.
I'm really excited to take aback seat and not be the
therapist in this session andsee what I can learn from
getting out of my mind and intomy body.
(00:32):
Megan.
How are you doing?
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
I'm doing super well.
I'm super excited to be on thispodcast with
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
you.
I'm excited to have you.
I was just reflecting on how wemet the other day because people
asked me if I made any friendswhile I was in Puerto Vallarta.
Yeah.
And I said, yeah.
I met one friend and her name isMegan and I met her at yoga.
(01:03):
Yes.
And she's a therapist.
And now I know you don't alwayscall yourself a therapist.
You go by different titles, butI've been excited and interested
in your work since we've met.
So let's start off with whatkind of therapeutic practice do
you do?
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
Sure.
I mean, just like what you mightsay, it's always a holistic
approach, right?
UNKNOWN (01:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
But my training specifically is in somatic
practices and mindful-basedpractices.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Ah, I like that.
I like the language.
I'm going to ask you to help mepick it apart a bit.
So a lot of my listeners knowwhat cognitive behavioral
therapy is.
And because of the state ofsocial media, whether people
realize it or not.
(01:55):
They know what psychodynamictherapy is because they're often
thinking about trauma responsesand the unconscious and
attachment.
But you do somatic counseling,right?
And so could you tell us whatsomatic counseling is?
SPEAKER_01 (02:11):
Yeah.
It's an umbrella term.
that is used in the field todescribe body-based practices.
And so looking at the mind-bodyconnection.
So they've kind of branchedapart into different modalities.
SPEAKER_00 (02:33):
Like
SPEAKER_01 (02:35):
maybe some of your listeners know what somatic
experiencing is.
But some other ones, like PeterLevine, he started that in the
1970s.
But others might be internalfamily systems.
Dick Schwartz started that.
And also focusing, EugeneGendlin started that.
(02:55):
And it's kind of like they wereall kind of, a lot of them were
part of the same group.
And so like one of them helpedstart the other.
And They're all, there's a lotof crossover and even what
you're describing in looking atattachment styles is very much a
part of a lot of thesemodalities as well.
So I think the simple way todescribe it is it just, it
(03:18):
places importance on the mindbody connection as the focus of
intervention.
SPEAKER_00 (03:22):
Okay.
Okay.
So we're focusing a lot on thebody and you use this term
somatic experiencing and itjust, stood out to me that you
didn't say experience likesomething in the past it's
something that's ongoing
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
so i like to just really start with looking at the
lay of the land for you whatdoes that feel like for you in
your body because it's going tobe different for everybody right
what's important about this isthat it is so like a lot of
modalities and psychotherapiesit's always client but it has to
work for the client for theindividual
SPEAKER_00 (04:00):
right and When we talk about the mind-body
connection, is our premise thatthat connection is poor to begin
with?
Or do we live in a world thatmakes that connection ruptured
(04:24):
in some way?
I'm trying to figure this partout.
SPEAKER_01 (04:28):
No, that's a really good question.
I don't think that I think of alot of our therapeutic
modalities or talk therapy,right?
We're always interested in thecognition and what's going on in
our brains.
But really, there is so muchknowledge that is constantly
being taken in through the bodyand more specifically, the
nervous system.
And I listened to your podcast,you've talked about the nervous
(04:49):
system.
So maybe some of your listenershave already been turned on to
talking about listening aboutthe autonomic nervous system.
But I feel like it's a just adifferent way of entry, you
know?
And that's why we say both themind and the body, because it's
not either or.
It's that connection between thetwo of them.
And what's really importantabout this field of study is
(05:14):
that safety isn't something thatwe can realize through
cognition.
It's something that we need tofeel in the body, right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:20):
I see.
SPEAKER_01 (05:21):
Yeah.
So we're constantly taking ininformation from our
environment, from inside ofourselves, through dynamics,
through relationship.
And so how can we start to tunein to how we take in information
through the nervous system?
SPEAKER_00 (05:37):
What do you think?
Well, I'm kind of thinking aboutif I were a client, how would
I...
understand a session or howwould I know that I came to
therapy and I did what I wassupposed to or that I had a good
session?
I'm trying to figure out withsomatic work, like, do I leave a
(06:06):
session feeling frustrated?
And then the therapist says,yeah, that's what being in your
body is.
Or do we spend, like, do I comein and talk about a problem and
And then you might say, okay,hold on to that problem.
And I'm going to redirect you todo a bunch of exercises that get
you in your body.
And then we approach thatproblem again.
(06:27):
I'm trying to figure out how asession would look and how I
might know that I'm like doingit.
I'm doing it right.
That feels important
SPEAKER_01 (06:37):
to me.
No, those are really goodquestions.
And of course, like you might befrustrated sometimes, you know
what I mean?
Like we might hit that upper endof what feels...
comfortable, right?
And I call those the pointyedges.
And I think that there's theright level of hard work that
it's not going to overwhelm likewe talked about before but we
(07:00):
want to be challenged in oursessions you know i know
cognitive behavioral therapyfocuses a lot on homework i
really love experientialsessions so in the here and now
we're going to do this togetherif that feels right so
personally i really if there waslike a problem that a client
might be bringing up in asession, I might bring it into
(07:23):
an experiential, I call themexperiments, you know, and try
this off because also if itdoesn't work, if a client says,
I hated this, that's goodinformation too, you know?
So it's never on the binary oflike, is this good?
Is this bad?
It's, um, was this useful to youor why wasn't this useful to
you?
(07:43):
And it's all good information.
I
SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
see.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
Okay.
Okay.
So I've got a good, you've gotme thinking about this.
And a follow up for me then isabout success from your
perspective.
So can you share maybe ananecdote or a story where you're
(08:10):
working with somebody over onesession or several sessions and
you see I'm curious about howyou understand the progress and
what you would label as asuccess for that person or how
you would label it as a successtogether.
SPEAKER_01 (08:27):
Yes.
I can tell a story about a pastclient and how I measured that,
how I saw that as success.
I had a past client that had afew different ethnic identities
in former Yugoslavia.
And they were at ends with eachother.
(08:51):
So there was some internalconflict that was happening.
And we used a modality that'scalled focusing.
And within this practice, it's alot of cultivating what they
call a self and presence.
But it's just an objectiveperspective.
Can we cultivate an objectiveperspective just to see what's
(09:12):
going on in the body?
So doing a body scan, seeingwhat's there.
And then when something comesup, a part comes up that wants
to be worked with, we can startto create dialogue with that
part.
We can start to see, is therepatterns of other parts that
light up?
And we can also see what itwants from its perspective, what
it doesn't want you toexperience.
(09:34):
So it's something that we workedon for a while together.
And, um, holding those differentbackgrounds within herself.
And then last summer, she wentback to her home countries and
was able to travel there, feelresourced enough to go to these
different countries.
(09:54):
And also with the I guess, withthe grace of knowing that hard
things were going to come up,right?
So the end goal of this isn'tthat you're not going to have to
write hard emails.
You're not going to have to havehard conversations with your
partner.
It's that I feel like I knowmyself well enough to know
(10:15):
what's too much and what are mytools when things get to be too
much.
And then really that...
that measure of success for meis the flexibility of the
nervous system.
How can it come out ofregulation and then come back
into regulation?
And she felt resourced enoughand she felt that was supported
(10:37):
enough to face some hard things.
So I call that success in mymind, even though hard things
happened, you know?
Of course.
SPEAKER_00 (10:48):
Yeah.
I totally hear that.
Thank you for that.
So, I just want to recap whatI've heard you say.
I've been taking some noteshere.
So some of the things you saidin terms of somatic
experiencing, you've kind oftold us what some of the
interventions and techniquesare.
So there's education or what youwould call psychoeducation
(11:13):
around the nervous system.
and the window of tolerance.
So when you're feeling reallyactivated or you're under
activated, either way, it's aresponse to being triggered and
you're just not in your optimalzone.
And then you've talked aboutawareness building.
So you've educated people on thenervous system and now it's
(11:34):
their own kind of awareness ofwhat is too much, what is hyper
and what is hypo aroused for me.
And that's in their contextrelative to other events and
settings.
I really like the language youused around experiential work
and doing experiments.
And from what I gathered,experiments happen in the
(11:57):
session and outside the session.
And an example of experiments isparts work.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
You got it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
Okay.
And parts work is something Iknow about through Gestalt.
Okay.
but it's similar to internalfamily systems.
And I didn't realize it's partof somatic experiencing, but
you've made that very clearbecause it's about doing
something in the moment and thenreflecting on what it feels
like.
(12:28):
The last thing that youmentioned that I thought was
really interesting was you usethis language of she felt
resourced enough.
And so I've heard this inpassing from people that we're
gonna work on resourcing orinternal resourcing.
What does that, can you expandon that language a bit?
(12:49):
So what does it mean when atherapist says we're gonna work
on your resourcing or make youfeel more resourced?
SPEAKER_01 (12:57):
Yeah, and it's something that we've kind of
mentioned before is thatinternal sense of knowing is
really important to thatinternal resourcing, right?
So even resourcing might bepractice with interrelationship
focusing and being able to usethat as a tool if feeling super
(13:18):
activated, maybe just goinginternal into the body and
saying what's here and thenseeing if a part is here that
wants to be worked with, youknow?
And I think a great thing aboutthis is just holding the
multiplicity that we all have.
Instead of over-identifyingwith, I am sad, I am mad, it's
saying a part of me is sad.
(13:39):
A part of me also might bejoyful.
A part of me also might befilled with grief.
And so it's just really holdingthe multiplicity of all these
different parts that we have.
But going back to your originalquestion, kind of straying here,
is that...
Resourcing could be a lot ofdifferent things, but mostly I
(14:00):
think the key in this practiceis cultivating an inner sense of
knowing.
SPEAKER_00 (14:06):
Okay.
An inner sense of knowing.
If we were to do a little roleplay, would you be able to be my
somatic counselor for a moment?
Because I could use this rightnow.
Sure.
Okay.
Would you be willing to trythat?
Okay, so I'll tell you reallybriefly what I'm going, like
(14:29):
what's going on in my life.
And that is just that I'membarking on a lot of change.
And I am someone whotheoretically likes adventure
and change, but the process istough.
It's anxiety inducing.
(14:50):
There's a level of misery.
I feel like there's not enoughtime.
There's anxiety about thefuture.
And I know once I move to thenext place, so I'm about to
actually move to another cityand state, and I know very well
that the adjustment time will belonger than what I anticipate
(15:15):
because it always is.
And so...
I'm just throwing this at you,but I do wonder if you've got an
experiment for me or a way tohelp me know better my internal
(15:36):
self.
SPEAKER_01 (15:37):
I love this.
And I love that you're curiousand open and also willing to be
vulnerable and just throw outwhat's happening for you now.
Do you feel comfortable closingyour eyes and going inward?
SPEAKER_00 (15:52):
Yes, I'm here.
SPEAKER_01 (15:54):
Okay.
So I'm going to do a little bitof lead in.
And so that is just going tojust bring awareness to the
body.
So I'll be doing that.
So you're invited to close youreyes if you'd like.
I'm starting to feel the edgesof the body, what your feet are
(16:16):
resting on, what your hands areresting on.
Maybe feeling what you'resitting on, what your back is
resting on.
Just noticing you pressingagainst that area and that area
pressing against you in thatcontact.
(16:42):
And then starting to go a littlebit more inward, starting with
the head, asking yourself, how'sthe head doing today?
Any sensations there or lack ofsensation, that's also good
information.
Sometimes people see images orcolors, there's no right way of
(17:07):
doing this.
Going down to your neck, tuninginto your neck, how is your neck
doing today?
down into your chest, tuning inhere.
(17:33):
And then tracing the line ofawareness down into our left
arm.
And then going over to the otherside and tracing the right arm
(17:56):
coming back to the center andmoving down to the stomach,
moving down into the pelvis, andthen moving down into the left
(18:16):
leg.
And this is a big area, somaking sure that you're taking
your time, noticing any anysensations in this area of your
left leg.
Then coming over to our rightleg.
(18:43):
And then lastly, let's see if wecan just zoom out on a macro
level and just taking in thewhole body, maybe even around
the body and just askingourselves what's going on with
our bodies today.
And then bringing in that focusfor today, the whole thing
(19:07):
around all of the changes, allof the moving, and then just
seeing how that lands in thebody.
When something comes up, youmight let me know.
SPEAKER_00 (19:25):
You know, the two things that really came up, like
I noticed when you asked me tobreathe differently or actually
you asked me to move the scanfrom my right arm, then back to
my chest and my stomach, I wassuddenly breathing deeper.
And as soon as I breatheddeeper, I thought to myself, oh
(19:49):
my gosh, I'm so thirsty.
And it made me think, have I notbeen aware that I've been
thirsty for probably some time?
SPEAKER_01 (19:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:02):
And then I thought, okay, let's keep going.
We did the scan.
And you said the leg is a bigpart and I'm sitting
cross-legged.
So it's still the same size.
It's still a big part, but it'soverlapping another part.
(20:23):
And I'm kind of all, tucked inin a way.
And sometimes I sit like that,not always.
And so just being aware of it, Ithought like, I'm really, I want
to say like closed in some way,not feeling particularly open.
(20:50):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:52):
Right.
And something's in you feelingclosed.
SPEAKER_00 (20:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And maybe we can kind of stickwith that part of what would it
be like just to close the eyesand go back in and really feel
into that closed part there.
Is there a certain place in thebody or is it just kind of some
movement happening?
UNKNOWN (21:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
Well, I'm thinking like, it's hard for me to feel
the close part, but I'm thinkingabout it.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (21:40):
that's good awareness.
SPEAKER_00 (21:45):
And the part of me that's closed is kind of like,
if I try to focus on it, animage comes up of like, dragging
something you know like dragginga lot of dead weight and it just
makes like makes me think abouteverything i have going on right
(22:11):
now where whether it's fun andsocial or it's work productive
something whether the deadlineis passed or something that I
have lots of time to do, I'mjust like closed and I'm
(22:34):
dragging my feet.
And this morning, yeah, I'm justlike dragging it, dragging it.
And this morning I looked at mycalendar and I just like emailed
a bunch of people and canceled abunch of things.
And I just...
Everything feels heavy, and Ithink that closedness, the
(22:58):
dragging, is my state of being.
I don't know what it's tellingme, but I think I'm shutting
down a bit.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
Mm-hmm.
In this moment, you feelyourself shutting down.
SPEAKER_00 (23:18):
Yeah.
Yes, not with you specifically,but when I reflect on the
change, yeah, I'm like shuttingdown.
I want to cave into the closedpart.
SPEAKER_01 (23:34):
You want to cave into this closed part.
There's a desire to want to goto this closed part.
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Look, I'm not seeing it as bad.
I'm seeing it as like...
barrier not what i was supposedto do but i want to just listen
to it and i want to just behorizontal on my couch endlessly
it's like what i
SPEAKER_01 (23:57):
want and you know i'm not sure as far as recording
but maybe in a session we wouldexperiment with that right we
would say what would it be likeif now we went to and did
horizontal you know so
SPEAKER_00 (24:11):
that
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
might be something to play with but And checking in
to make sure that that is theright description here is that
something feels heavy and alsosomething feels like it's
dragging along and it's closed.
And just feeling into thatdescription because also you
have permission to change it oradd to it, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (24:37):
Yeah.
I think...
think I would keep it?
I mean, it's similar to likedragging a suitcase uphill, but
kind of thinking, I don't knowwhat's in this thing.
I just don't know.
Heavy.
(24:57):
Like what is in it even?
Who picked this route?
SPEAKER_01 (25:05):
Yeah.
That's interesting.
It feels like a suitcase beingdragged up a hill.
SPEAKER_00 (25:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And And maybe we could just,from that objective perspective,
seeing if we can cultivate thatsense of curiosity and then
feeling into this part that'sheavy and dragging the suitcase
up a hill.
Yeah.
Let's just see if we can givesome voice and agency to this
(25:31):
part.
And also noticing when we startto blend with this part, you
know, it might be somethingthat's pretty close right now.
And it might be something that,we want to start to identify
with.
And that's okay if that happenstoo, but being aware of that
too.
So feeling like we can maybejust give the mic over to this
(25:54):
part that is heavy and draggingthe suitcase up a hill and wants
to close and wants to behorizontal.
And what kind of company wouldthis part want from you?
SPEAKER_00 (26:11):
What kind of company?
That's a great question.
I think that part wants me toconsult with them because that
part is thinking, why am I doingthis?
I'm not sure it makes sense.
I only want to do things thatmake sense.
(26:34):
And that part wants me to thinklike them, and be less directive
and instead consider what I'mdoing to that part.
SPEAKER_01 (26:49):
So it has something to say.
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
It does.
SPEAKER_01 (26:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:55):
It's protesting, in fact, I think.
SPEAKER_01 (26:58):
It's protesting.
SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
What is it protesting here?
I think that part of me issaying, stop.
And like only make me work if itleads to something, if it makes
sense.
SPEAKER_01 (27:20):
Only leads to something and only makes sense.
Yeah.
And how do you receive thatmessage?
SPEAKER_00 (27:32):
I think I feel like a bit, called out or like a bit
embarrassed because myscatteredness is being seen by
another part of me.
A
SPEAKER_01 (27:49):
part's feeling a bit exposed here.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:54):
Yeah.
The decision-making part of meis feeling exposed.
SPEAKER_01 (27:58):
Yeah.
So there's another part online Ihear, that protesting part and
that embarrassed, exposed part.
So there's a couple of differentparts that are happening here.
And also maybe just reallytaking in what that heavy
suitcase part has to say.
It's saying it's protesting andmaybe just really letting that
(28:19):
part know that you heard it oryou understood it.
Maybe that's what they need tohear back or, or no wonder
they're feeling that way becauseof everything that's going on.
Maybe see what it feels like forthat part to feel heard.
SPEAKER_00 (28:33):
Yes.
I mean, I think through thisprocess, that part feels more
heard just because we'veidentified that third part.
Yeah.
But if I were to talk back tothat part, I might say, okay, I
(28:54):
hear you.
I'm going to stop adding thingsto the calendar and making big
plans.
or pulling us in differentdirections.
I'm gonna sit with you and lookat you and feel our joint energy
to see what makes sense as thenext step.
SPEAKER_01 (29:17):
What makes sense as the next step.
SPEAKER_00 (29:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:20):
Yeah.
And how was that received?
SPEAKER_00 (29:28):
I think the protest part is...
I don't want to say happier nowbecause it's like, it's tired,
but I think more content withthe prospect of like synergy and
(29:48):
attunement.
SPEAKER_01 (29:50):
Yeah.
It's letting you know that thatpart of synergy is really what
it's wanting.
It sounds like.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:01):
Does that sound correct?
It's a yes from this part.
UNKNOWN (30:04):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (30:05):
yes good and just seeing if more dialogue wants to
happen here or maybe this is aplace of that it is complete for
now if there's anything elsethat wants to be said in this
moment
SPEAKER_00 (30:35):
I think the protest part has a lot more to say, but
maybe it doesn't have to happennow.
When I tune into that part,really, it is mad.
I think it's saying, it wouldsay, we can do much more if we
(31:03):
work together
SPEAKER_01 (31:05):
But
SPEAKER_00 (31:06):
also you're misusing me.
SPEAKER_01 (31:08):
There's
SPEAKER_00 (31:11):
a limit to how much I can lift or drag or push.
SPEAKER_01 (31:16):
It sounds like this part is worried about something.
Does that sound right?
SPEAKER_00 (31:22):
I think this part is worried about getting all used
up and then being criticized fornot being able to continue
moving.
SPEAKER_01 (31:36):
It's worried about being used up and being
criticized about not moving.
SPEAKER_00 (31:43):
Yeah.
Because the bigger part of methat makes all the decisions at
the end of the day does, willsay, like I will say to myself,
I guess even to this part, wedidn't do enough today.
We didn't do what we set out todo.
It wasn't as organized or linearas it could have been.
(32:04):
We're going to try againtomorrow.
And so that sounds likepositive, but it's a criticism.
SPEAKER_01 (32:12):
That's great self-awareness of knowing that
criticism that's coming onlinetoo.
It's part of criticism.
It's part of protection maybe insome ways.
SPEAKER_00 (32:21):
Yeah.
I think both parts, the protestpart and the now embarrassed,
but decision-making part bothknow that, that a lot can be
accomplished with goodalignment.
SPEAKER_01 (32:38):
And maybe just taking a moment to really let
them know that you hear that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:48):
Yeah, the decision-making part is saying,
I hear that.
You're totally right.
Let's give ourselves time tosync up.
SPEAKER_01 (33:00):
Let's get into the area.
Time to sync up.
SPEAKER_00 (33:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
And you might let these parts know that you can
return to them.
It sounds like that they areneeding, are requesting more
audience.
And you might just want to letthem know that this is a place
that you can return to.
SPEAKER_00 (33:18):
We'll be back.
SPEAKER_01 (33:22):
We'll be back.
SPEAKER_00 (33:25):
Thank
SPEAKER_01 (33:29):
you for that.
(33:56):
And
SPEAKER_00 (33:58):
it's helping me or it helped me just connect with
myself.
Like I feel less scattered, abit less fragmented.
SPEAKER_01 (34:11):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (34:14):
I will say it did feel like it's like a kind of
emotional mental work to respondwhen you say, what does this
part want to say to that part?
Or is that part sayingsomething?
You know, like to me, that waslike, oh, this is, and I know
it's meant to be work, but Ijust want to articulate that
that is not easy.
It takes some focus.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
Yeah, that's interesting.
And I think that's why I alsoreally like experiential in
session things is that we cankind of, you know, also I think
a big part of it is hearing itback.
Like, what was it like for youto say, like, oh, this part is
protesting?
(34:58):
What is it like to hear thosethings back and reflected to
you?
And it might be, ah, that's notquite right.
It's not really protesting.
It's just going into collapse,actually.
Or, you know, like...
SPEAKER_00 (35:12):
I think, like, from a somatic perspective, you
bypass a lot of the jargon andthe language and the memes and
the TikToks, and we go to,like...
hey how does this feel in thissituation in this context with
this person when you think aboutthis event when you approach
(35:35):
this time of year how does itlook feel sound taste how do you
imagine it and what meaning doyou make of that and so i i'm
really drawn to like the somaticway of being, particularly after
this experience with you.
(35:55):
For me, I'm always just a bitscared, I think, because you
know that I do cognitivebehavioral therapy and I do
psychodynamic therapy andgestalt is a small part of my
practice.
And I think that's because Ifrankly have to be a bit less
(36:17):
vulnerable when I do thosemodalities.
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
both
SPEAKER_00 (36:22):
as a patient and as the therapist.
SPEAKER_01 (36:27):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (36:28):
Whereas when I have to be in my body and really
attuned, I'm more vulnerable.
I'm doing a different kind ofwork.
I'm exercising another kind ofmuscle that I'm not that
familiar with, frankly.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:46):
Yeah.
Thank you for saying that too.
Because I think aspractitioners, we're always
asking ourselves, how much do weput ourselves out there to
clients?
What's appropriate and what'stoo much, you know?
And I think that's a questionthat many, many, many
practitioners have in allmodalities.
(37:08):
Because as we all know, thatclient relationship leads to a
lot of patient success as well.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (37:17):
Totally.
SPEAKER_01 (37:17):
So it's really important.
But how do we do that?
That's appropriate.
SPEAKER_00 (37:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:26):
And that exists in somatics as well.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (37:29):
Absolutely.
Yes.
Thank you so much, Megan, forbeing on the CBT dive, talking
to us about a bunch of stuffthat's not CBT, which I think is
super important, frankly, right?
I think opening up to amultitude of modalities that
(37:50):
help us get to know ourselves isreally important.
And I'm honored to have met youin this way because you're like
adding to my knowledge, youknow?
So thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (38:02):
You as well.
It's a great podcast and I'mlike really happy to be here on
this podcast and also with
SPEAKER_00 (38:07):
you.
Yeah, take care.
We hope you enjoyed thatexperience.
I certainly did.
Thank you again to Megan Blair,our special guest for today.
If you're interested in somaticcounseling and some of Megan's
work, you can find her onInstagram or Google Megan Blair.
Thank you for joining us at theCBT Diet, and we hope to see you
(38:28):
again.
UNKNOWN (38:30):
Thank you.
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