January 31, 2025 • 65 mins
Get ready to be inspired by the story of Lance Reader from Krank Golf, who turned a broken driver into a driving force of innovation. Lance's journey from the world of professional long drive to crafting durable and high-performing drivers is a tale of creativity and perseverance. Listen as we uncover the fascinating evolution of Krank Golf, starting with the El Diablo driver that transformed long drive competitions and powering through to today's technology for everyday golfers. Lance shares how collaborating with a Chinese factory led to world championship titles and how Krank Golf's focus has shifted post-pandemic to revolutionize the golfing experience for amateurs.
Unveiling the secrets behind Krank Golf's success, Lance walks us through the distinct manufacturing techniques that set his drivers apart. We discuss the meticulous processes like cup face forging and dual welding that contribute to the unparalleled durability of their products. Krank Golf’s use of beta titanium has resulted in innovations that minimize ball curvature and maximize performance. This episode teases exciting new launches, including a mini driver and fairway woods, as well as the craftsmanship involved in producing custom drivers that eclipse mass-produced alternatives by major brands.
We also engage in a lively debate about the ongoing evolution of golf technology and equipment rules. Lance provides valuable insights into the impact of modern drivers and emphasizes the importance of choosing the right equipment for individual swing speeds. We explore the influence of Bryson DeChambeau, whose achievements with Crank drivers have propelled the brand's popularity to new heights. From the nuances of conforming versus non-submitted drivers to thoughts on course design and the controversial divot rule, this conversation offers a comprehensive look at the future of golf innovation and the intriguing intersection of technology and tradition.
Please visit the Krank Golf website and explore all the club options to find the right driver for you.
https://www.krankgolf.com
https://www.instagram.com/krankgolf/
https://x.com/KrankGolf
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Hey everybody, welcome back to a special
episode of the Chasing Daylightpodcast.
It's been a while since we'vehad a one-on-one interview and I
was excited when the folks atCrank reached out and said hey,
we'd like to have our guy, LanceReeder, come on.
So, Lance, welcome to the show,Thank you.
Thank you, it's going to be fun.
Yeah so Crank Golf has beenaround for a while.
(00:40):
A lot of people know the namefrom Long Drive and that's where
your guys' foundation is fromGoing through a little bit of
changes and kind of going awayfrom Long Drive and rebranding,
I guess you could say, theideology behind Crank Golf.
So why don't you tell everybodyfirst off how you got started
(01:02):
with Crank and what's going onwith the company?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
First off, how you got started with Crank and
what's going on with the company.
Well, I mean we started around2002.
I was a professional long drivegolfer.
You know, I ran, I owned healthclubs.
It was, I think, when I gotinvolved with long drive in
general.
I think it was my first midlifeand I wanted to just have a
little bit of fun.
And I reached out and found along drive guy and I hit the
(01:26):
ball a long way.
But every long driver thatcomes out to compete is usually
the longest guy in their group.
But they kind of come out tosee if they're really that long.
And so I got involved in thesport of long drive and I
started winning and I was prettygood I mean I consider myself
(01:47):
one of the top guys at the timeand, um, little by little, uh,
it became a huge addiction.
I mean, people that areinvolved in long drive really
get addicted to it and, um, theadrenaline's crazy.
The biggest problem that we hadwas that all the drivers broke,
they broke and they broke.
So you know, the shafts broke,the heads broke, but the
(02:14):
beginning of long drive it wasthe long drive was really the
first golf related competitionthat went to the bigger heads
that moved into the 450cc stuff,going into the cup facing or
the, the beta titaniums and togo bigger.
You had to go with bettermaterial.
But the material and the headsthat they were making were
breaking so much that I was like, um, we can't manage this
(02:37):
because you're breaking a head.
You're breaking one or twoheads every time you practice.
And so the companies that wereout then were smaller companies
that nobody really knew about,like Alpha, bing, smt, zyder,
some of these incrediblecompanies that came out with
some of the most highperformance heads.
They were far and aboveCallaway, tatum and Titus and
(02:59):
Ping at the time, because thosecompanies hadn't gone into that
400, 430, 450cc range.
And so I knew that we werebreaking a lot of heads and I
thought you know, if thesesmaller companies can make heads
, why don't I try to do it?
It was just an interestingthing.
I met a guy that, just like mybrother today in Malaysia, who
(03:22):
knew a contact with somefactories in China, and I felt
like it was just going to be afun experiment that we can go
out and try to do some stuff andand try to make a driver head
that didn't break.
And we came out the El Diablodriver and it didn't break.
It was.
It was incredibly durable, andwe implemented some of the
thoughts.
It was just, I'm not anengineer, but I I'm smart enough
(03:45):
to know that when something'sbreaking on a weld, you probably
should make the weld a littlestronger and the body rigidity
of some of the stuff that weworked on, and the cool part was
the factory that I really havebeen.
They're like family to me nowover 20 years that they let me
come in and work and they let melearn years that they let me
(04:09):
come in and work and they let melearn.
And so we came up with a designthat had some unique features
like cup facing, dual welding,using certain types of beta
titanium, creating body rigidity, all the things more bulge and
roll, which is which is wherethe company that really pushed
the bulge and roll curve, whichreally helps you hit a ball
straighter, and also it helpedwith durability, and so when we
(04:32):
made that driver, it won fiveworld championships and by
making it so it didn't break, weactually made it hit better.
It was crazy, and so the spinrates and the directional
control we put in place werereally, really good, and so, um,
(04:52):
that was the beginning of crank, and from that point on we said
look okay, there's 200 longdrivers in the whole world.
We're not going to make anymoney doing this selling to
those guys, because they wanteverything free to begin with
yeah and so.
So we made a playing driver atthe time of the el diablo, so we
made the the four, five, sixdegree that we use in the world
of long drive golf.
(05:13):
But we also made a seven, five,nine, ten, five, twelve in the
el diablo that we used regulargolf.
And so we we have always soldregular playing drivers on top
of the fact that we're sellinglong drive clubs.
And so one thing led to thenext, to the next, and now our
current driver is our 18thversion driver that we've
(05:36):
created over the last 22 years.
And so long drive's fun.
We've won 36 World Long DriveChampionships.
We dominate that sport.
We're not as involved in it nowbecause during covid uh, you
know, golf channel quit and soldit and it's a complicated sport
.
There's not that many peopledoing it and it's really hard to
(05:59):
run and, um, it's hard to find500 yards of flat grass that
don't have help cars driving by,you know, and so, but I love
long drive.
At COVID we really, we reallymade a concerted effort when
(06:19):
long drive pretty much died toto approach the, the world of
golf, more effectively, andthat's really when we really
changed into the multiple facethickness which is really the
world we live in today.
Yeah, I remember.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I was.
I was working at Las Vegasnational course here in town and
they had the Remax long drivebefore before the las vegas
invitational and it was on the,the first hole, which is long
par five, and that was like myfirst experience seeing long
drivers and seeing guys with,you know, 46 inch, 47 inch long
(06:57):
drivers just beating the crapout of the ball.
And it was.
I was impressed.
That was the, the, the, theZubek Cause, that was his name.
Yeah, that was his, that washis era.
And then then you guys have, ornot you guys?
But then long drive they.
They went out to Paiute andteed it off in the desert and
hit to the range.
They went out to the speedwayand were in the stands hitting
(07:20):
to the grass infield, go out to.
They got to Mesquite and hitfrom one soccer field to the
other soccer field.
So I mean it's entertaining towatch, but you're right, it's
not the easiest event to put onas far as spectators go.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It's really hard for spectators to see the ball fly.
It's really hard to produce aball that's flying at 220 miles
an hour and going 450 yards.
I mean, it's a really difficultsport and there's just so few
people in the world that canactually bring it at that speed
that it's really limited andit's really not golf.
(07:58):
They use drivers, but you know,in the game of golf there's far
more through the game than justyour driver.
And, um, I think that's thehardest part.
I really believed that when Ifirst started crank that if I
could go out and win two orthree or four world
championships, I could provethat my driver's the best in the
(08:18):
world and that it hits furtherand straighter.
And who wouldn't believe me?
I mean, we're not just dealingwith the Jason Zubex and the Tim
Burks and the Justin James isthe top guys and the fastest
guys.
We're also dealing with the 50s, 55, 60s, 65, 70 year old guys
and girls.
And when you're winning thoseage brackets, there should be
(08:41):
more relevance to saying, hey,you know what these drivers are
really special If they hitstraight and long, why can't you
use them in golf?
And they were.
You know, we were alwaysconforming on usj, but not a lot
of people knew that and not alot of people look at long drive
as a golf.
I often wonder.
I said, you know these guys arehitting drivers, not hockey
sticks, right, but but you know,and and and I think that the
(09:06):
thing that's remarkable withcrank is that we've won all
these world championships and it.
You know I'm not, I'm notsitting in my yacht in the
Caribbean, um, it means that, no, you're not, no, I'm not.
I'm like I accomplished everygoal but that one, but um, but
in general, it's like you know,to, to.
To get regular golfers tounderstand the value of our
(09:29):
driver, they have to be able torespect the fact that it's used
in the game of golf and you know, getting Bryson to shamble like
we did, which is, you know,just crazy, but you know,
getting him to prove that ourdrivers are really, really
special has helped us a lot andI think we've come a long way in
22 years.
It takes that long, apparently,when you have the majors that
(09:52):
have so much power and money.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
All right, we'll get into Bryson in a few.
But where did the name comefrom?
What made you go with Crank soI?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
think at the beginning my gosh, it's just so
crazy.
I was hitting another brand.
I mean in 2004, I set the worldrecord of 526 yards with
another brand and Crank wasn'taround.
But again the drivers broke,broke, broke right.
So I started selling those,doing charity golf tournaments,
(10:25):
and so then I thought, well, Iprobably should make one of
these, and so I went to thecompany that I was making them
with.
I said, hey, do you mind if wejust relabel it and change the
metal on the face?
I've been doing a littleresearch.
And they said yes.
And then I said okay, I got topick a name.
So I was going to go with AmpGolf or Crank Golf, and Amp golf
was taken and crank golf Wasn't.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
That's how I did it, simple simple I like the, I like
the, the.
The KR has been, you know, youcan, it's, it's.
I mean, I have one of your olddrivers here and that's six the
it's.
You know the it's KG is onthere.
It's, it's, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
It's good.
Yeah, it's, it's been.
You know, the truth is it'sbeen a ride and we enjoy it and
we continue to go and, you know,make the top product All right.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
So let's get into why it's different.
It's, you know, callaway,taylormade, all the, all the
ping, all the big brands.
They have their way of puttingtheir clubs together you chose a
different route um and and wetalked about this in our
pre-interview uh, which is veryinteresting to me.
Uh, what?
What is different that you guysdo that the other manufacturers
(11:40):
aren't doing, to why your stuffdoes not break?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
I mean, when your number one purpose of making a
driver is to make one thatdoesn't break that guy's
swinging 150 miles an hour, youreally have to look at what that
is.
What kind of manufacturingstyle would even allow that?
Because, think about it,callaway, tatum and Titus and
Ping and Cobra cobra andeverybody no one ever really
(12:11):
tested in that 150 swing speedrange.
We but that was all that was.
Our only purpose was to makeone that didn't break in the 150
swing speed range, and so weknew that your cut face forging
staying 100, titanium, um, youknow, using certain metals, uh,
certain uh welding techniques,um, creating more body rigidity
(12:32):
so that the body didn't expandand pop off the crown when it's
carbon, you know all these typeof things.
Um, I mean, remember, this wasvery organic to begin with.
I mean nobody knew what theywere doing, and so I basically
went in and said, okay, Ibelieve this, this, this and
this.
And then my factory came in andsaid, well, I think we can try
(12:56):
this, we can try that.
And so basically what welearned was, if you go cup face
forging which means you'recupping the face right, that
allows for the weld to not be onthe face and then if you create
more bulge and roll morecurvature in the face, it gives
more durability.
If you use the right type of Imean the beta titanium's we're
using right now, it's like ourseventh different one is flat
(13:20):
out unbelievable.
And then when you heat, treatit the way we do into super hard
rock will be the curvaturegives durability.
The dual welding gives thedurability.
The beta titanium's that havethe structure that's needed,
especially when, when, whenyou've hit it a lot, that it
doesn't just snap face and thenyou create.
(13:41):
You create all the rigid, youcreate the, the body rigidity,
like we do with all thelouvering, with all the raised
center section, the bottomsection, all of this stuff
creates.
When a ball hits the face of acrank driver, that body does not
expand.
We expand 20% of every otherdriver.
(14:07):
So what happens when the ballhits the face of a carbon body?
It just expands okay.
That's why I think halloweencreated jailbreak, because they
didn't want the expansion.
But we don't have expansion,okay, but now they're 360 carbon
body that expands a lot.
So I don't know what jailbreak'sfor, but the point is this that
we're fully cut-faced, we'reable to weld.
(14:30):
Our weld is up on the crown allthe way around the tune.
Underneath there is no weld onthe face like you see with the
majors they have an insert piece.
So there's like 12 reasons whyI think our drivers are super
special.
But the main ones are cupfacing, beta titanium, dual heat
, treating body rigidity andcreating and bulge and roll your
(15:00):
balance points.
I mean even like something assimple as our dual weight weight
ports here.
Those significantly reduce thecurve of the ball because it
reduces the angular spin of theball.
So when you've been doing it 22years and you've been, you've
been testing in the most severekyle berkshire world, you learn
(15:30):
a lot, yeah, and so we create,we, we sell two clubs, we sell
our driver, our drivers and ourfairwoods um, and we are
launching a new mini driverwhich I haven't even talked
about anybody.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
But oh, it's popular.
Many drivers are popular rightnow this is a very cool.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
It's 11 and a half degrees and it's built exactly
like our drivers.
And then, of course, ourfairwoods, which are super
special because they're all cut,faced with miraging steel.
They're super thin faced andthis happens to be we just
launched our two wood, so wemake all the different lofts and
different fairwoods.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, that's something I don't think a lot of
people I wasn't even aware.
I thought you guys werespecifically long drivers and
and that's what you sell.
So when I first startedchatting with you I was like
Holy crap, I had no idea.
So I want to, I want to bringup the website here real quick
and show people, cause they cango on and look at the website
(16:24):
and see I mean, there's firstoff, there's a ton of
information on this website, butright here, 3wd+ 3WD, 5wd, 7wd,
9wd, 11wd, 13wd, 15wd that'snot just drivers, that's not
normal.
That's not normal.
But then you also you know thedrivers you have.
(16:44):
You know a variety of driversas well, so let's get into the
drivers.
What are the different headsthat you sell and the unique
characteristics of them?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Okay so, I love golf and I love talking golf.
I love talking golf, I lovetalking drivers, I love talking
equipment and you know there'sjust so many opinions of what
makes something work or not work.
It's just really the craziestsport in the world because it's
the toughest sport in the world.
So we, we specialize.
(17:20):
We specialize in drivers and itallows us to build fairways and
mini drivers because of thetechnology is very, very similar
.
But what we've noticed over theyears is and this is really the
big switch for Crank abouteight years ago was to say, hey,
why are older golfers losing somuch distance?
(17:42):
Older golfers losing so muchdistance, and I mean honestly,
it'd be crazy like in five yearsa guy's gonna do 70, 80 yards
of their drive and nobody reallyknew why.
And I didn't really know why.
And and because I always made along drive version and a
playing version.
The long drive version had alittle more bulge and roll for
for stability and durability.
(18:02):
It had a little bit thickerface to roll for stability and
durability.
It had a little bit thickerface because they're swinging at
150 miles an hour.
And then my playing version hada little less curve in the face
but way more curve thaneverybody else, and then a
little bit thinner face becauseyou didn't need the durability,
but both were conforming becausethey both passed the rules by
the USGA.
They just happened to pass therules by the USGA, they just
(18:25):
happen to.
Well, the problem was that tostay conforming, to stay like
the 0.83 core or the 257 CT, ifyou know what that means, what
happens was that once you getunder that 110 mile an hour
swing speed, you start to losethe trampoline effect of the
face of that driver quickly.
So when guys turn 40, 45, 50,depends on their health or their
(18:46):
speed they slowly start toswing down to that 105, 100, 95,
90, 85.
Once you start losing that, youlose the one thing that's
called the extra credit, extrabonus, and that's trampoline
effect, the spring of the faceof a driver.
Think about it the face of adriver has the potential, when
(19:09):
the ball hits the face, for itto go in and spring off.
Now, when we had persimmon woodsthere was no trampoline effect.
Right, right, the block of wood.
But with titanium you have thepotential of that.
But the problem is, if you'reconforming, you start
significantly losing that springeffect at about 105 mile an
hour swing speed.
(19:29):
So when you're 100, 90, 87, mywife swings 62 miles an hour.
How much spring effect does sheget off a normal driver?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
zero, zero right which is unfair to her so her
147 yard drives aren't as fun.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
But if I give her the same spring effect value that
john rom enjoys or anyone elsethat swings 115 to 120 right
that 0.83 core, then she hits it30 yards longer.
So she's hitting it 27, 175,180, 185 instead of 150.
(20:04):
And that's more fun for her andit's also more fair.
And so we decided to make threedifferent face thicknesses.
So we make a conforming driverthat is on the USGA approved
list, which is the Fire Pro, andthen we make a Fire X.
That's a little bit thinner butit's really rated for people
that swing 105 to 80.
(20:25):
And then we make a fire doubleX.
That's really thin faced,that's under 80 mile an hour
swing speed.
So we make three drivers thepro, the X and the double X and
you can hit whichever one youwant based on your swing speed.
So if you're a super fast swingspeed and you hit a really thin
(20:46):
face, you'll ruin the driver,so don't buy it yeah, that that
was going to be my next question.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
What happens when a high swing speed player swings a
thin face like that?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
they hit it 30 to 40 yards shorter and they ruin it,
so they waste their money goodto know don't waste your money
so people, people say well, whatyou're just trying to make the
longest guys hit further.
Actually, there is no materialknown to man that can do that.
Our pro driver, beingconforming, is, in my opinion,
the longest hitting driver inthe world.
(21:17):
It's the most durable at theswing speeds that.
Hit it.
I still swing about 130, whichis quite high.
Hit it.
I still swing about 130, whichis quite high.
And I know for a fact that if Ihit the x, the middle face
thickness one, I hit that 30yards shorter than the pro.
So it doesn't, really itdoesn't because the material
just can't handle it so why?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
why is the usga not willing to conform?
Because that would be what Iwould think that you know if, if
you make a thin face conforming, then the, the guys that swing
it hard, are going to take this,this driver, and hit it further
.
But you're saying that that'snot the case.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
They don't know.
That's very well known to manthat can do that so what?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
why?
What's preventing them from?
Because it sounds like it wouldmake golf more enjoyable for
the you know, know, 98% of thegolfing world, compared to the
2% of the elite guys.
If the higher swing speedplayers aren't getting a benefit
out of it, why is the USGA soanti a thinner face?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I think it's really.
I think there's a few reasonsI've asked this question.
I mean, think about it.
We've for us to have 36 WorldLong Drive Championships and
submitted so many drivers andbeing on their radar that our
number one goal is to hit theball longer.
We're on their radar period.
So I've talked with them many,many times about it.
It's complicated because theadvantages that we have doing
(22:41):
cut-face forging, because it'sall hand-done and it's super
specialized beta titanium and Icould sit here for hours and
talk about it, but the fact isthe majors don't ever build what
I build.
They can't because they need 2million of them.
Yeah, no one's building 2million crank heads.
(23:02):
No one's building 2 millioncrank heads.
One of the reasons I think thatthey've never really evaluated
buying us because we build ourheads so different than what
they do.
They pour cast molds, they havean insert face that's not even
beta titanium and now they'redoing 360 bodies that are carbon
and you got Tatermade carbonlining the face of a driver that
(23:27):
the backing of its titanium.
Well, clearly the age oftitanium is not over if you're
still using titanium in the backof the face yeah you know, it's
not like it's not a secret theyhad massive breakage issues.
So the the fact is there,there's, there's so much more to
the situation that we do as faras making our drivers.
(23:50):
I mean being willing to handcut face and welding everything
by hand is a completelydifferent game plan.
I mean, to build 100,000 ofcrank drivers is is really
really crazy amount of work.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
So Do you think you guys are, are like singled out
and jaded, like we?
We don't, we don't want toconform this, because then we're
going to lose sales and let'saddress the conformity thing
with the USG.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I kind of got away from it.
The conformity thing with theUSG, I kind of got away from it.
There's no way in the world themajors want to deal with
multiple face thickness thebreakage issues that exist
already are significant To gointo a thinner face.
Think about it the face of apro driver the fire pro driver
is 2.7 millimeters.
(24:43):
That is significantly thinnerthan any major.
We're talking 3.8 to 4millimeter thick faces.
We're 2.7.
We're both conforming.
How do we pull that off?
We pull that off because wehave more curve in the face.
Our metal's significantlyharder and we're cup facing, so
we have more perimeter supportperiod.
And we're cup facing, so wehave more perimeter support
(25:09):
period.
Our row conforming driver loadsbetter at slower swing speeds
than does any driver in theworld and it absolutely loads
better at faster swing speedswith more durability.
But if I take that same, thatsame manufacturing style, and I
thin the face from 2.7 to 1.9,which is the X and give it to
somebody that swings slower,they get the same spring effect
(25:31):
that the faster swing speeds get.
They don't get more, they getthe same And83 now the the only
way that you can have that manyface thicknesses is to have the
(25:53):
type of construction method thatwe have with the metal we have
and they are never going to dothat yeah too,
much work, too much work, andit's just you can't mass produce
it as they need.
Think about it.
I mean, how many drivers a yeardoes callaway sell worldwide
what I mean?
Come on, just a few, yeah, andyou know, and it's not like any
(26:16):
of these companies build baddrivers, it's just that their
curve in the face is is too flat.
They flatten out quicker.
Their breakage is significantand they're telling you know, 82
year old women, that they'regoing to gain 20 yards.
They're not.
They're they're not gettingfaster, stronger and younger,
they're getting older, weakerand slower.
And we build, we're built theonly driver that that really
(26:38):
actually adds distance.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
The hot topic in the driving world starting last year
was 10K, 10k, 10k.
Everybody's going 10K with theMOI.
So with how rigid your face isand it doesn't flex, is MOI even
something you worry about, ordo you know that you're going to
(27:01):
have the durability, so it'snothing that even needs to be?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
pondered.
I don't really worry about it.
What I worry about is twothings, three things.
I worry about control.
How straight is this driver?
Okay, I also worry about speed,and I also worry about speed
and I also worry aboutdurability.
(27:28):
And when I can hand somebody adriver, that is probably the
great and and we can get intobryson later too.
But think about what reallyhappened probably the greatest
striker of an at speed in thehistory of professional golf and
(27:49):
he he literally takes off of a,takes a head off of a shaft,
puts on our head and in 10 days,shoots 58, wins back-to-back
tournaments after not winningfor three years, wins the us
open, leads the masters for twodays, finishes second at the pga
, his team wins the livechampionship.
(28:12):
It completely revolutionizedthe way he played the game.
In 12 months period.
All he did was take a head offand put another head on.
It's crazy.
It's crazy, and so nobody cansay anything other than the fact
that he hits it straighter,with more control.
I believe he hits it further,but that doesn't even matter.
(28:33):
We don't even talk aboutdistance with Bryson, because
the only thing that reallymatters is he's going to hit it
three, 30, 40, 50, 60 all daylong.
That's just kind of what he does, but is it going to be playable
?
Is he going to be able tocontrol it?
And so the the bulge and rollall the things that we've done
for 22 years.
That is what has created thatopportunity for him.
(28:55):
And we do make unique clubs andnobody else makes them like we
do.
Absolutely nobody does.
And so, yeah, are we at thepariah?
Yeah, we're never going tocompete with Calhoun, tatum,
tattles or Ping or Cobra or PXGwhen it comes to advertising
dollars.
But when you can hand somebodya driver and it completely
(29:17):
changes the trajectory of theirentire career, how do you argue
with that.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, it's impressive , all right, so I I want to ask
you this and share in thedriver's face.
I, I am under the belief thatgolf has changed from what's not
under the belief.
I believe that the driver usedto be the hardest club in the
bag to hit and now it's theeasiest.
You, you had like going back tothe Persimmons, and even the
(29:44):
small, small driver heads back.
You know, in the in theeighties, where you were
required to hit the center ofthe face in order to hit a good
golf shot.
Now we have, like I said, withthe MOI and the drivers and
super forgiving.
You know Scotty Shelfers on TVhitting a 300 yard drive off the
toe.
Um, I, I think that is one ofthe things that is hurting golf.
(30:11):
Is these guys just getting upthere wildly throwing?
I mean, don't get me wrong,they are very talented.
You know you don't become anelite professional golfer
because you're not talented, butthey're the.
The risk off the t it's, it'snot.
It's not affecting these guys,they just get up there, they
bomb it down there because thosedrivers are so easy to hit.
Now is am I right with that andthinking that I mean I?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
don't think you're right at all.
Matter of fact, are they easierto hit?
But think about this.
I mean I I traveled a lot lastyear.
I went to most of all theevents with bryson.
I'm watching every one of theseguys ripping balls into houses.
Come on, they struggle.
Cam smith, one of the greatestgolfers of all time, struggled
(30:58):
with his driver so bad last year.
I just watched, watched it say,oh my gosh, this guy be winning
every freaking tournament if hecould a fairway.
So to say that everyone'shitting.
I've watched John Rom ballsinto freaking no man's land.
I'm like, oh my God, my driverdoesn't even curve that much to
do that.
I know I'm not trying to besuper controversial, but I'm
(31:21):
saying the flat of the face, themore the curve, and that's just
the way that it works.
You got to have more bowls androll to control these absolute.
When the ball starts curving,it doesn't stop curving if
you're having a flat face.
And that's really why Brysonloves what we do and that's why
why, even like he's trying tomake his own driver now with LA
(31:42):
golf that they're trying to putinto play everything that crank
is.
That's the absolute truth.
So and so if you you say thateverybody's hitting so much
easier, the driver is so muchstraighter.
I don't know that.
I see that.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Well, I wouldn't say straighter, I would say more
forgiving.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Straighter is forgiving, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Well, no, I'm talking like if a toe strike or a heel
strike would normally send it 30yards off the fairway and now
it's only sending it 10, becauseit's more forgiving these guys
when they get up there and theyhave that shot, because it's
more forgiving.
These guys, when they get upthere and they have that shot, I
(32:29):
don't think the pure ballstriker is being rewarded,
because now you have guys thatmaybe don't have that talent of
scoring up the face and hittingit in the center every time are
getting an advantage over thosepure ball strikers, and I would
like to see that aspect of thegame get come, come, dialed back
a little bit.
Everybody is going nuts aboutdistance and oh, let's make the
(32:52):
masters 8,000 yards and and.
But you, I love seeing theshort courses, like Harbor town,
where you know it's, it's anaccurate tee shot is required to
get around that golf course.
And uh, you know you can't justgo go blast at three, 30 and
and hope to get, you know, putup a good score.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
It's just I don't know it's, it's a different era.
It's a different era but Idon't think it's as dramatic as
what people think.
I mean I think there's there'sgreat risk reward.
What people think I mean Ithink there's great risk-reward
to distance hitting.
I know when we were in Mayakobawith Liv last year.
I mean you talk about anxiety.
You hit a ball anywhere, right,it's in the jungle Like these
(33:33):
courses can control driverperformance so easily.
If you really want to controlhow far a person hits the ball,
put in transitions, use themower.
There's so many different ways.
I'm saying some of thesecourses are wide open.
I mean like 35 under in hawaii,I mean recently.
I mean really.
(33:54):
I mean, yeah, you want to setup a wide open space that
there's virtually no stress andthere's no fear and just rip and
go and go.
You know kind of thing you'regoing to get.
But I, I'm just not a bigproponent of changing the ball.
I'm not a big proponent, Idon't believe that there's any
spring effect value known to manthat should, that should limit
(34:16):
the spring effect of a driverface.
Limit the spring effect of adriver face.
Um, I'm just.
I believe that you should usethe mower, your architecture,
because there's some of theseshort courses are magical, some
of the long courses are brutal.
You know what playing all ofthem, we don't want the same guy
winning every freakingtournament man, and they can
(34:38):
control.
They can control it by themower and by the design and by
the transitions and all thestuff that's going on.
I'm just not a big let's.
Let's play with the ball, thatthat gives them an advantage.
But let's change the courses tomake sure that it's fair across
the board, based on skill set.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
That's it that's, I agree, 100.
It's so ridiculous.
How they can, you know, make apenalty shot, penalizing, and
they choose not to?
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah Well, I mean, I don't know.
I think they need to fix thedivot rule anyway.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Oh, let me hear that.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Well, I mean, if your ball rolls in a divot, you
should be able to place it, inmy opinion.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
So I firmly agree with you, one hundred percent
yeah.
But we're not, we're not rollingdice yeah, I, I had somebody
say this to me, okay.
So you hit your ball in themiddle of the fairway, lens in a
divot.
You're pissed off because youhit a great shot.
Yeah, all right, and you'repenalized, all right.
So if you hit a ball right off,the course hits a tree, comes
(35:42):
back to the middle of thefairway.
Do you go over and put yourball back where the tree was
right?
No, you take.
You take it.
Hey, sometimes you get breaks,sometimes you don't, but I still
think you know, fill yourdivots and and at least have the
golf course be as close to whatit was for you, for the next
person.
Yeah, I think it's a dumb rule.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
That's probably one of the very few roles I think
they should change, but at theend of the day I don't have any
say saying that, but I do.
I do believe that there shouldbe a hard look at the unfairness
of of having slow swing speedsforced to hit thick face drivers
.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
You know, and when, when we had our, our, our phone
conversation last week, that iswhat really stuck out with me.
I had never thought of it thatway before that.
You know somebody.
You know I swing at 97 to 98miles an hour.
I was on the track manyesterday.
That's where I'm at right now,pretty happy with that, which is
good.
But you know my friend Trey andmy friend Dan, huge high swing
(36:46):
guys.
They swing it in the 120s andyou know the fact that we play a
similar head.
You know design.
They play a different model butsimilar head design.
Yeah, they're getting a hugeadvantage because they can swing
it faster.
So that really like resonatedwith me.
It's like wow, why is it thatyou know the high swing speed
(37:08):
players are the only onesgetting benefit from the face?
It's, it's an interesting, it'sa very interesting concept.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Well, and you know, nobody really thinks about it, I
didn't think about it, I nevercrossed my mind I'd cranked for
15 years and I literally woke upone day and said I make my long
drive club a little thicker.
And then my plane driverthey're both conforming.
I wonder what's going to happenif I made one a little thinner
(37:36):
and had my friends swing 90miles an hour, hit it, see if
there's any real difference.
That's literally how it allhappened and I called my factory
and I said hey, I want you tomake this, I want you to make
three different face thicknessesand I'm going to test them.
So I brought in some of mybuddies that are really good
golfers that are swingingbetween 95 and 85 and we did
just straight up comparison to aconforming and non-conforming.
(37:58):
These guys were going calm and30 yards and I'll be like, okay,
well, what's their core?
So if core, if core isestablished, which I believe is
around 115 mile an hour swingspeed I mean the cam test is 109
.
So if they're assuming they usethe same ball, because we know
(38:19):
balls deject, they they de sameball because we know balls
degrade quickly.
So, like we know in speedtesting in the long term that if
you really wanted to set a ballspeed record, you had to do it
within the first three hits,because after that you're losing
one mile an hour.
One mile an hour, the balldegrades, right.
So are they using the sameexact ball?
(38:39):
And what ball are they using?
Are they using a 110compression ball?
Are they using a 90?
Are they firing always at 109,which they are?
But what is core?
So for you to get 0.83, let'sassume that whatever a major
manufacturer's driver that's onthe conforming list is very
close to core rating, eventhough the usj uses ct now, but
(39:01):
it's a different subject.
But let's say core 0.83.
You have to swing in.
In my, in my research, you haveto swing at least 115 to get
0.83.
Okay, so 0.83 at 115, that'sgreat.
What if you swing 100?
What's your core?
Certainly not 0.83, no, noteven close, probably 0.73.
(39:23):
So what if you swing 64 milesan hour?
What's your core?
0.2, you can drop whalen.
What if you swing 130?
What's your core above 0.83?
That's fact.
That is absolutely a fact.
So who are the only peoplehitting drivers above court?
(39:44):
The guys that swing the fastest, the guys that need the the
more amount of help they justneed to hit straight.
So.
But then eventually the facewill flatten, you know, whatever
the case, and it'll breakbecause they're swinging 130.
That's why most really fastguys struggle with breaking
(40:06):
drivers.
But at the same time, that'score.
So is it possible for us to say, okay, if you're swinging 115,
you get .83 core.
If you're swinging 100, you get.83 core.
If you're swinging 65 miles anhour, you get .83 core?
Why can't we just giveeverybody 0.83 core?
(40:29):
That's fair right.
We don't force 80-year-oldwomen to hit an extra stiff
shaft, but we force them to hitan extra stiff face.
So we give them a senior ladyflex shaft.
Let's give them the proper faceflex, the proper shaft flex,
the proper shaft flex, theproper ball flex.
Let's give it all to them.
Let them go out and hit 170yards and enjoy the game.
Yeah, you know how many peoplehit our drivers and say I
(40:51):
haven't hit 200 yards in adecade and I just did yesterday
their solution is a bigger headthat's lighter and more
forgiving.
Well, and I get.
But you've got to have thespring effect and you can't go
bigger than 450.
No one's proven that above 450has any value.
But if you want to go there andget the proper face thickness,
(41:12):
get the proper face flex, usethe right shaft, the right face,
the right ball and go enjoy thegame.
99% of all golf is under 105mile an hour swing speed and yet
100% of all golf, if they'rehitting a normal head, is
(41:33):
hitting a head rated for 115swing speed.
What that's crazy?
That's crazy.
Why do we do that?
That's just so stupid.
But you know, if the USGA wantsto to, if the pga wants to have
these rules, that's great.
It applies to pga, but itdoesn't apply to men's club no,
not, not at all that's not alead amateur, it's not a
(41:55):
professional.
So yeah, my opinion's different.
I think that we should enjoythe game.
I I think we're using drivers.
I think if the guys swinging115 plus are getting 0.83,
everyone deserves it and it iscompletely unfair to stop that.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Do you think the USGA will ever come around and
realize that?
Speaker 2 (42:14):
I think they already realize it.
The problem is, how do youconvince Callaway to make three
different face thicknesses whenthey're metals, poured metal?
What a pain, oh my gosh.
Can you imagine?
Oh hey, we're going to make a1.4 millimeter.
I mean, how long, how longwould they last?
It's crazy.
It gets super complicated.
We were small enough that wecan manage it, but we also do
(42:37):
cup face forging.
We don't pour metal and wedon't use any carbon.
We use a hundred percenttitanium.
I mean, think about it.
Are you wanting to weldtitanium pieces together or do
you want to glue carbon together?
Speaker 1 (42:49):
One's significantly cheaper than the other.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Who wants first of all, who wants to deal with
titanium, even though it's thebest in the world, and who
really wants to weld when theycan glue?
Speaker 1 (43:02):
So is anybody else doing what you're doing?
Hmm, not to give them any wedidn't create co-facing.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
We didn't create that , we perfected it.
We didn't create bolts and roll, we increased it.
You know, we're super carefulwith the type of beta titaniums
we use in the face, because youcan have some type of beta
titaniums we use in the face,because you can have some really
phenomenal beta titaniums, butonce they get beat up and
microfractured, a lot of thembreak.
The ones we currently use areincredibly durable in its worn
(43:31):
out state, like the people thathave hit it 5,000 times.
That's where things break Withcrank.
It just continues to just behot and it's not going to snap
break in the face.
So so I, I, I don't know of anycompany put it this way, no one
has ever.
(43:52):
When crank was fully committedto world long drive, no one ever
made a driver like us, and alot of people tried, but they
made a couple big mistakes.
They thought the face needed tobe thinner.
That made it hit worse.
The more your face flattens,the the less straight it hits,
and there's so many littlethings that I opted for a little
(44:12):
less spring effect, a littlemore curvature and, in the end,
at the fastest swing speeds, itpaid dividends when they had to
hit it under pressure at thefastest swing speeds it paid
dividends when they had to hitit under pressure, Complicated,
but fun All right.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
So this guy here so I'm currently playing the AI
Smoke.
Okay, if I throw a shaft,because this is a little long
for me.
What loft is that?
Nine degrees.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Nine degree head.
How long is it?
Nine degree head.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
It's an old Harrisonrison on here.
Oh my gosh, that's so yeah, Ithink, I think it's 46 and a
half.
I'm not sure, but I'll measureit.
But so if, if I, if I the shaftthat I'm playing apparently I
play an lagp shaft uh, if I wereto throw that in this head, am,
am I gonna see a difference inyour opinion with this one, not
(45:03):
your new one.
I'm just curious.
Well, that's a new one.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
It's 10 versions ago.
I mean eight versions ago.
I mean it's still beta titaniumand it's still an incredible
driver.
That driver won multiple worldlong drives in multiple
divisions, especially the olderdivisions.
So I think you would hit itreally, really well.
But I think you have to.
You have to be willing tocompare apples to apples.
If you're going to use aspecific shaft in one, you have
(45:29):
to use it in another, and Ithink it would probably be
better for me just to send youour latest driver and then make
your comparison.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Okay, I'm down for that you like that absolutely.
I can do that.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
I I want to hit it straighter and further well, I
um, yeah, I mean it's up to you,because you, you you're
legitimately the fire x, themiddle face thickness.
Unless you only want to hit adriver on the conforming list,
then you can hit the fire pro.
They both perform incrediblywell yeah, I would.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
I would have to have conforming because I I am the
commissioner of a local leaguehere in town that if my my guys
found out I was playing anon-conforming driver are we
non-conforming?
Speaker 2 (46:12):
let's, let's deal with that, are we?
Not or are we non-submitted?
What's the difference?
oh yeah tell me, you know thatonly 50% of the drivers made
around the world every year areever submitted to the USGA.
Yeah, I know that.
Right, so USGA is not the IRS.
Okay, they are very importantbut they help with rules and
(46:44):
regulations and all the thingsthat they've done in the RNA.
But at the same time, withrecreational golf, you can't say
that our X and our double X isnon-conforming because it's
simply non-submitted.
And you also have to take intoconsideration that the swing
speeds that use them don't hitthem past 0.83 core, so how can
(47:06):
they be over core?
So when we say they're highcore, they're not really high
core, they're really fair core.
That's interesting.
So, if you really I mean theseare all his terminologies so if
a person swinging 72 miles anhour hits our fire double X, 1.4
millimeter thin face, he doesnot benefit from more than 0.83
(47:30):
core and if the high swing speedplayer plays it, it's not gonna
it doesn't respond.
Yeah, so again, the only peoplethat are actually hitting above
0.83 core are the ones that arehitting conforming drivers that
swing above 120 one yeah of thewhole whole craziness.
Yeah, but at the same time wecan talk about technology all
(47:51):
day long, but it's still aboutthe fun of the game.
I promise you, when a persongets up and goes from 170 to 200
, their game is a lot more funoh, absolutely they're not a
threat to the game, so let's goout have fun.
So so we have two non-submitteddrivers.
We have two conforming driversour fire ld, which is long drive
(48:13):
version, and our fire pro.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Is it?
Is there a reason you haven'tsubmitted?
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Of course, okay, what do you think?
Speaker 1 (48:24):
I know why.
I just want to know if that'sif you know and that's why you
haven't.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
No, I could submit them so they could fail, so that
I could say that they'renon-conforming.
But that's not the point.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
I don't sell them to people that swing and that get
the face to perform above 0.83yeah, they're, they're not.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Why do I want college ?
Speaker 2 (48:42):
elite 15 mile an hour swing speed.
What's the point of it?
Matter of fact, when they dothat?
Let's say that I send thedouble x into the usg and they
test it at 109 mile an hourcanon test.
It's just going to ruin theface.
Yeah, what's the point?
Why would I submit something soit could be ruined?
It's not even sold to thosepeople.
(49:04):
No, it's.
I mean it's complicated, but atthe same time it's still fun,
it's still cool.
I mean it's still the game.
Is the game?
Even what arnold palmer said Idon't care if you use a baseball
bat.
Go enjoy the game.
True, you know.
Use the equipment that is rightfor you.
If the ball a lower compressionballs are right for you, do
(49:25):
that.
If the shaft flex more flexibleis right for you, do that.
If the face flex is better foryou, use it.
Find the companies that arewilling to actually take care of
you and not force you to hitsomething that's going to hit
significantly less and less fun.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Anyway, do you guys?
Do you guys hold demo daysaround the country, or how?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
how to?
We're mainly online.
We've been online for 22 years.
We, you know we're.
We're not a traditional.
We're not going to go into thedistribution.
We're not going to go get in50,000 stores like Callaway.
We're not.
You know we're.
We're not a traditional.
We're not going to go into thedistribution.
We're not going to go get in 50000 stores like callaway we're
not.
You know they're on theirfourth generation.
I'm the first generationstarter of this.
So we, we prefer to be online.
We have a great fitting toolonline.
(50:09):
Um, if you have any issues withit at all, we'll replace it for
you for free.
Um, it's really not thatcomplicated to get fitted for a
driver.
It's really complicated to getfitted for irons.
That's why we don't make them.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say next.
So you guys are strictly goingto stick with fairway clubs
drivers and fairway clubs.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Drivers and fairways and many, but could we make
irons?
I think the number one reason Idon't make irons is I don't
think I can make them better.
What exactly are you going todo to make a better iron than
Strixon or Tatermade or, youknow, the Zuno?
What are you going to do?
Is there any technology in anyway, shape or form that's going
(50:52):
to make that iron perform better?
Because I can tell you that ourperformance, our manufacturing
style of our drivers isabsolutely better.
That is a technology that I canabsolutely make better.
No one's going to do what I dobecause it's too much work and
it's too difficult to make amillion plus drivers, but when
(51:16):
it comes to irons, I don't thinkI can make them better.
Could I make them and sell abunch of them?
I could, but that's just not mypassion.
It's not my passion.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
All right, let's talk .
Bryson, okay, yeah, so great.
Like you said, like you, youprefaced it earlier.
Amazing year for him.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
I mean he's.
He's a blessing for us too.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Absolutely.
I mean a lot of eyes on yourproduct.
I mean, one of the reasonswe're talking to you right now
is because the popularity ofcrank, because of Bryson.
Why, why, why is he doing whathe's doing in your opinion?
Why is he going away from thisand trying to?
You've got a product that isproven.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
It's there for him well, he's still hitting it.
I saw this video.
I mean, yeah, I just sent himfive new drivers.
I mean, okay, good.
But the truth is, I think it'simportant to know where we start
and I, we, we have to givecredit where credit's due.
It's the only way it works.
So when Mike Shy, his coach,called me and said, bryson wants
(52:27):
to try your driver, and I saidOK, we'll put him on the phone
and let's talk, I mean we're nota beginner company.
There has to be value in 36World Long Drive Championship.
It doesn't matter.
We have developed a driver thatno one in the world has ever
developed because no one's evertested in the environment that
(52:47):
we were forced to.
So, no matter what I don'treally care what anybody thinks
the fact that we pulled off whatwe pulled off over these years
meant that we learned at leastsomething Right.
And so I said to him what doyou?
What's going on?
He goes I can't quit the curve,I can't quit flattening faces,
I can't quit breaking stuff.
And you know, this is nothingnew, everyone's watched his, his
(53:10):
comments, right.
And so I'm like, okay, well,here's the deal.
We're going to send you thisdriver.
I sent him a seven, five and asix and he called me and I
overnighted it.
The next night he called me andhe says, okay, I got to have an
answer for for what's going on.
I said what's that?
He goes.
Why.
Why does this driver curve 60%less than any driver I've ever
(53:34):
tested?
And he goes.
I'm testing like I have dataand I said it's because of these
reasons.
It's because of our bulls androlls, because of our metal,
it's because of our cup facingis because of our body rigidity,
it's because of like 10 thingsthat crew together makes that
driver hit straighter and curveless and less, less flattening
(53:55):
of the face and all the stuffthat you want.
And he said, okay, he goes.
Okay, I love it, he goes.
Uh, can you send me a fairway?
I said, sure, they're builtexactly the same way.
They're not titanium, they'remiraging steel, but they're.
My fairways are super unique,they're super durable, super
fast, super straight.
And he, okay.
(54:16):
So I sent him a three and fivewood and he has the driver.
Well, 10 days later he goes outand shoots 58.
He took the head off and put ahead on.
That's all he did.
And then he added the three andfive wood which he hits a nine
and a 12 degree, which is reallynot a three and five wood, but
that's what he calls it and goesout and wins back-to-back
(54:40):
Shoots 58, wins that tournament.
The next week he wins again andthen he goes out and, like I
said, he really had a phenomenalyear, with all the craziness.
I mean even like the US Open.
I mean he was number onestrokes gained off the tee day
one.
Day two, 22.
Number number 22 had a bad day,but still better than average.
(55:02):
The next day he's number fourstrokes gained off the tee.
And then, his final day, hedecides to change the head 10
minutes before he's teeing offbecause he wanted a lower loft.
Because that's how bson worksIf he gets something in his head
, he just says I want to do this.
And the real truth was when hechanged he asked me for he goes
what do you have in your bag?
(55:23):
And I said you're hitting adriver, that you just were
fourth strokes gained off thetee.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (55:30):
You're leading the US Open by six strokes.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (55:38):
But you know we're sitting there right.
I said, well, I got five and ahalf because he's a six and like
five and a quarter.
The crazy thing is he put it ona shaft and he hit three balls
Absolute newt.
And he looked around, he goesI'm hitting this one and he
walked to the tee box andcouldn't hit a freaking fairway
to save his life.
It was too low, right, but hewas still 12th strokes gained
(56:07):
off the tee.
Think about it as bad as he hitthat driver, he was still
ranked 12th strokes gained offthe tee because he hits the ball
so freaking far that even whenit wasn't exactly in the fairway
it was still usable andplayable.
And then, of course, he hitsour three and five wood, which
he even said himself he wouldn'thave won the US Open without
our three wood because he drovethat par four with it.
So there was our time, you know, and it's great.
(56:32):
But I think it's important tounderstand that he said to me no
contracts, no money, I'll hitit as long as I want to hit it.
I want you to know that I planon.
I've always wanted to make myown equipment.
I just didn't know howaggressive he was going to be on
that.
It's really hard to build thetype of driver that we have.
So he's in the process ofbuilding this driver with LA
(56:52):
Golf and it's their first try atbuilding a driver.
I think it's, you know,whatever.
It's really unfortunate.
I think it would have beenreally cool to be able to work
together, but he's a partnerwith them, so but it wasn't like
he wasn't clear from thebeginning.
(57:13):
So for me, um, I know for afact he's hitting my driver
three and five wood today inindia.
Um, and they're working onwhatever they can do and, you
know, maybe someday we'll beable to work together.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Um, we'll see so him playing and winning the us open?
How many other tourprofessionals have come to you
and asked to try it?
Speaker 2 (57:41):
at least it's a very complicated question Quite a few
.
But getting them to actuallyhit your driver and walk from a
major when they've got theirdiesel truck sitting out there
ready to take care of you andthey've got a big check waiting
there ready to take care of youand they've got a big check
waiting you have to really wantto win.
(58:02):
And let's face it, bryson'smade a lot of money and by
winning, absolutely and you knowwhat Every aspect of his career
is better because he's winning,including his YouTube videos,
including his social media,including everything.
(58:22):
I mean, how how much successand how much attention are you
going to get if you're alwayslosing?
Not very much, so winning is sowinning is the key and we've had
quite a few people hit ourdrivers and a lot of people told
me they were going to hit themin the end sign a contract with
a major that that includes theirdriver.
So I don't think any of themajors want crank around in in
(58:46):
on the pga tour and stuff likethat sorry, is your focus going
forward now?
Speaker 1 (58:53):
uh, more recreational golfers Are you?
Are you focused on tourprofessionals?
Where?
Speaker 2 (59:02):
where do you see you guys pushing your name the most?
I would love to get moreprofessional golfers to actually
hit us, but they have to beable to work within the
parameters that we can.
We can do.
I mean, there's there's so manyprofessional golfers out there,
but how many amateur golferscan really benefit from our
technology?
And they do.
We sell a lot of drivers.
(59:22):
We've been around a long timeand we've sold many, many, many
drivers, but we're the onlycompany willing to push the
boundaries to actually give theman advantage and more enjoyment
in the game, making everythingfair when it comes to spring
effect.
I can tell you that that it'sit's the most important thing
that we do is to is to reallypush into the mass golf
(59:46):
population.
99 of golfers swing under 105.
Let's not forget that.
That means 99 of golfers plusare hitting a driver face that's
not rated for what they need.
Let's change that right, let'schange that.
I think we're trying and Ithink, when it comes to like
(01:00:08):
Bryson, I hope someday that wecan actually work together.
And I think, who knows?
I mean, if they pull off thegreatest driver in the world
because it's going to have to beto be crank, and if it was that
great, he'd probably already behitting it, um, but I don't
want the conflict.
You know, I'm grateful for whathe's done, I'm grateful for the
fact that he, that he workedwith us, and but he's also
(01:00:33):
grateful for us.
It's a win-win situation and itwould be cool if we could work
together going forward.
But he's got his contracts andhe's got his ownerships and he's
got his goals and we'll seewhere it all goes in the end.
If not, it's just been anincredible ride and we're way
better off because of it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Do you have the vault , like Ping does with all their
championship putters, you getyour gold.
Uh.
World champion, uh crank closetno, but I do.
Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
I do have, I do have, I do have his us open two
drivers.
I have the driver he used forthe first three days and I have
the driver he used on sunday.
Awesome, so that's pretty coolthat.
Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
That is very cool, very cool, let me say this.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
He's also a really nice guy and he has really good
intentions, you know, and so Ithink it's business is business
and it's tough sometimes, um,but I do believe it's going to
be really hard for him or anyoneelse to actually replace the
level of performance that ourdrivers bring to the table.
Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
yeah, I, I admit he, he is a great chat.
I, when the live event was herein vegas, we had media passes
and I chatted him up walkingbetween a couple t-boxes and he,
he's engaging, he chats withyou.
Of course I I'm I'm very anti.
Grow the game.
I think the game is like huge,it doesn't need to grow anymore.
(01:02:01):
Why is that it's because, uh,tea times in Vegas.
Well, you probably are dealingwith this down in Arizona too uh
tea times are.
You know, a course that I usedto pay 45 dollars at is now 110.
There's no tee times available.
Stop growing the game.
Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
That's great.
I think about the same thingaround here.
It's like in the summer youused to get on anywhere.
It's 115 degrees out.
Yeah, you're in Vegas andthey're still full, like I'm
like, oh my gosh, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
We used to have, we used to my local course.
It's Revere it course, it'sreverence.
Right down the street from methere used to be a 19 after
three.
It was 19 after three o'clockbecause it's a retirement
community that the course isbuilt around, the.
The seniors are not coming outafter 10 o'clock because it's,
like you said, 115 degrees.
So for 19 bucks I would get offwork, I'd show up at 4 30, I'd
(01:02:51):
play 18 holes in an hour and ahalf to two hours.
For 19.
It was fantastic.
That fantastic.
That right now is $75.
That's right.
And it's full.
It's full.
So stop growing the game,bryson.
Stop it.
But I respect him.
He's a great conversationist.
Anytime that we've had anybanter regarding him on the show
(01:03:11):
or on our Instagram page, healways responds.
So I love him for that.
Our Instagram page he alwaysresponds.
Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
So it's I love him.
I love him for that.
I think he's such a greatambassador for the game.
You know he brings fun to thegame.
I mean, I think him going tolive really opened up the
opportunity for him to get thekind of promotion him winning
and winning and doing so muchbetter than he did in the
(01:03:36):
previous three years helped hima ton.
So he's a great ambassador.
I think that he really isputting his money where his
mouth is on some of the projectsthat he's involved in right now
.
Absolutely Hopefully we can allstay close and work together
All right, I'm going to throwthe website up on here.
Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
It's crankgolfcom.
The'm gonna throw the thewebsite up on here.
It's crank golf dot com.
Uh, the drivers, I got thewebsite up here.
They sell for 549.
Uh, that includes the shaft,correct?
Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
it is, and I mean we're always going to have some
type of discount.
We have 150 off, so they're 399right now.
That's a great price for thisdriver, absolutely, and 150 off
the fairwoods and then we'llwe'll launch the mini driver
pretty soon.
It's really interesting.
It's fully cup-faced titaniummicro driver and it's fully
adjustable Awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
Well, lance, thank you so much for joining us,
thanks for being the firstinterview for us, for 2025.
And I'll have all the links toeverything in the show notes
below and this will go out onour regular podcast platform as
well as YouTube.
So thank you so much for yourtime and I can't wait to see
what you guys do next.
Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Okay, thanks brother, thank you you.
Hey everybody, welcome back to a special
episode of the Chasing Daylightpodcast.
It's been a while since we'vehad a one-on-one interview and I
was excited when the folks atCrank reached out and said hey,
we'd like to have our guy, LanceReeder, come on.
So, Lance, welcome to the show,Thank you.
Thank you, it's going to be fun.
Yeah so Crank Golf has beenaround for a while.
(00:40):
A lot of people know the namefrom Long Drive and that's where
your guys' foundation is fromGoing through a little bit of
changes and kind of going awayfrom Long Drive and rebranding,
I guess you could say, theideology behind Crank Golf.
So why don't you tell everybodyfirst off how you got started
(01:02):
with Crank and what's going onwith the company?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
First off, how you got started with Crank and
what's going on with the company.
Well, I mean we started around2002.
I was a professional long drivegolfer.
You know, I ran, I owned healthclubs.
It was, I think, when I gotinvolved with long drive in
general.
I think it was my first midlifeand I wanted to just have a
little bit of fun.
And I reached out and found along drive guy and I hit the
(01:26):
ball a long way.
But every long driver thatcomes out to compete is usually
the longest guy in their group.
But they kind of come out tosee if they're really that long.
And so I got involved in thesport of long drive and I
started winning and I was prettygood I mean I consider myself
(01:47):
one of the top guys at the timeand, um, little by little, uh,
it became a huge addiction.
I mean, people that areinvolved in long drive really
get addicted to it and, um, theadrenaline's crazy.
The biggest problem that we hadwas that all the drivers broke,
they broke and they broke.
So you know, the shafts broke,the heads broke, but the
(02:14):
beginning of long drive it wasthe long drive was really the
first golf related competitionthat went to the bigger heads
that moved into the 450cc stuff,going into the cup facing or
the, the beta titaniums and togo bigger.
You had to go with bettermaterial.
But the material and the headsthat they were making were
breaking so much that I was like, um, we can't manage this
(02:37):
because you're breaking a head.
You're breaking one or twoheads every time you practice.
And so the companies that wereout then were smaller companies
that nobody really knew about,like Alpha, bing, smt, zyder,
some of these incrediblecompanies that came out with
some of the most highperformance heads.
They were far and aboveCallaway, tatum and Titus and
(02:59):
Ping at the time, because thosecompanies hadn't gone into that
400, 430, 450cc range.
And so I knew that we werebreaking a lot of heads and I
thought you know, if thesesmaller companies can make heads
, why don't I try to do it?
It was just an interestingthing.
I met a guy that, just like mybrother today in Malaysia, who
(03:22):
knew a contact with somefactories in China, and I felt
like it was just going to be afun experiment that we can go
out and try to do some stuff andand try to make a driver head
that didn't break.
And we came out the El Diablodriver and it didn't break.
It was.
It was incredibly durable, andwe implemented some of the
thoughts.
It was just, I'm not anengineer, but I I'm smart enough
(03:45):
to know that when something'sbreaking on a weld, you probably
should make the weld a littlestronger and the body rigidity
of some of the stuff that weworked on, and the cool part was
the factory that I really havebeen.
They're like family to me nowover 20 years that they let me
come in and work and they let melearn years that they let me
(04:09):
come in and work and they let melearn.
And so we came up with a designthat had some unique features
like cup facing, dual welding,using certain types of beta
titanium, creating body rigidity, all the things more bulge and
roll, which is which is wherethe company that really pushed
the bulge and roll curve, whichreally helps you hit a ball
straighter, and also it helpedwith durability, and so when we
(04:32):
made that driver, it won fiveworld championships and by
making it so it didn't break, weactually made it hit better.
It was crazy, and so the spinrates and the directional
control we put in place werereally, really good, and so, um,
(04:52):
that was the beginning of crank, and from that point on we said
look okay, there's 200 longdrivers in the whole world.
We're not going to make anymoney doing this selling to
those guys, because they wanteverything free to begin with
yeah and so.
So we made a playing driver atthe time of the el diablo, so we
made the the four, five, sixdegree that we use in the world
of long drive golf.
(05:13):
But we also made a seven, five,nine, ten, five, twelve in the
el diablo that we used regulargolf.
And so we we have always soldregular playing drivers on top
of the fact that we're sellinglong drive clubs.
And so one thing led to thenext, to the next, and now our
current driver is our 18thversion driver that we've
(05:36):
created over the last 22 years.
And so long drive's fun.
We've won 36 World Long DriveChampionships.
We dominate that sport.
We're not as involved in it nowbecause during covid uh, you
know, golf channel quit and soldit and it's a complicated sport
.
There's not that many peopledoing it and it's really hard to
(05:59):
run and, um, it's hard to find500 yards of flat grass that
don't have help cars driving by,you know, and so, but I love
long drive.
At COVID we really, we reallymade a concerted effort when
(06:19):
long drive pretty much died toto approach the, the world of
golf, more effectively, andthat's really when we really
changed into the multiple facethickness which is really the
world we live in today.
Yeah, I remember.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I was.
I was working at Las Vegasnational course here in town and
they had the Remax long drivebefore before the las vegas
invitational and it was on the,the first hole, which is long
par five, and that was like myfirst experience seeing long
drivers and seeing guys with,you know, 46 inch, 47 inch long
(06:57):
drivers just beating the crapout of the ball.
And it was.
I was impressed.
That was the, the, the, theZubek Cause, that was his name.
Yeah, that was his, that washis era.
And then then you guys have, ornot you guys?
But then long drive they.
They went out to Paiute andteed it off in the desert and
hit to the range.
They went out to the speedwayand were in the stands hitting
(07:20):
to the grass infield, go out to.
They got to Mesquite and hitfrom one soccer field to the
other soccer field.
So I mean it's entertaining towatch, but you're right, it's
not the easiest event to put onas far as spectators go.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It's really hard for spectators to see the ball fly.
It's really hard to produce aball that's flying at 220 miles
an hour and going 450 yards.
I mean, it's a really difficultsport and there's just so few
people in the world that canactually bring it at that speed
that it's really limited andit's really not golf.
(07:58):
They use drivers, but you know,in the game of golf there's far
more through the game than justyour driver.
And, um, I think that's thehardest part.
I really believed that when Ifirst started crank that if I
could go out and win two orthree or four world
championships, I could provethat my driver's the best in the
(08:18):
world and that it hits furtherand straighter.
And who wouldn't believe me?
I mean, we're not just dealingwith the Jason Zubex and the Tim
Burks and the Justin James isthe top guys and the fastest
guys.
We're also dealing with the 50s, 55, 60s, 65, 70 year old guys
and girls.
And when you're winning thoseage brackets, there should be
(08:41):
more relevance to saying, hey,you know what these drivers are
really special If they hitstraight and long, why can't you
use them in golf?
And they were.
You know, we were alwaysconforming on usj, but not a lot
of people knew that and not alot of people look at long drive
as a golf.
I often wonder.
I said, you know these guys arehitting drivers, not hockey
sticks, right, but but you know,and and and I think that the
(09:06):
thing that's remarkable withcrank is that we've won all
these world championships and it.
You know I'm not, I'm notsitting in my yacht in the
Caribbean, um, it means that, no, you're not, no, I'm not.
I'm like I accomplished everygoal but that one, but um, but
in general, it's like you know,to, to.
To get regular golfers tounderstand the value of our
(09:29):
driver, they have to be able torespect the fact that it's used
in the game of golf and you know, getting Bryson to shamble like
we did, which is, you know,just crazy, but you know,
getting him to prove that ourdrivers are really, really
special has helped us a lot andI think we've come a long way in
22 years.
It takes that long, apparently,when you have the majors that
(09:52):
have so much power and money.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
All right, we'll get into Bryson in a few.
But where did the name comefrom?
What made you go with Crank soI?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
think at the beginning my gosh, it's just so
crazy.
I was hitting another brand.
I mean in 2004, I set the worldrecord of 526 yards with
another brand and Crank wasn'taround.
But again the drivers broke,broke, broke right.
So I started selling those,doing charity golf tournaments,
(10:25):
and so then I thought, well, Iprobably should make one of
these, and so I went to thecompany that I was making them
with.
I said, hey, do you mind if wejust relabel it and change the
metal on the face?
I've been doing a littleresearch.
And they said yes.
And then I said okay, I got topick a name.
So I was going to go with AmpGolf or Crank Golf, and Amp golf
was taken and crank golf Wasn't.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
That's how I did it, simple simple I like the, I like
the, the.
The KR has been, you know, youcan, it's, it's.
I mean, I have one of your olddrivers here and that's six the
it's.
You know the it's KG is onthere.
It's, it's, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
It's good.
Yeah, it's, it's been.
You know, the truth is it'sbeen a ride and we enjoy it and
we continue to go and, you know,make the top product All right.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
So let's get into why it's different.
It's, you know, callaway,taylormade, all the, all the
ping, all the big brands.
They have their way of puttingtheir clubs together you chose a
different route um and and wetalked about this in our
pre-interview uh, which is veryinteresting to me.
Uh, what?
What is different that you guysdo that the other manufacturers
(11:40):
aren't doing, to why your stuffdoes not break?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
I mean, when your number one purpose of making a
driver is to make one thatdoesn't break that guy's
swinging 150 miles an hour, youreally have to look at what that
is.
What kind of manufacturingstyle would even allow that?
Because, think about it,callaway, tatum and Titus and
Ping and Cobra cobra andeverybody no one ever really
(12:11):
tested in that 150 swing speedrange.
We but that was all that was.
Our only purpose was to makeone that didn't break in the 150
swing speed range, and so weknew that your cut face forging
staying 100, titanium, um, youknow, using certain metals, uh,
certain uh welding techniques,um, creating more body rigidity
(12:32):
so that the body didn't expandand pop off the crown when it's
carbon, you know all these typeof things.
Um, I mean, remember, this wasvery organic to begin with.
I mean nobody knew what theywere doing, and so I basically
went in and said, okay, Ibelieve this, this, this and
this.
And then my factory came in andsaid, well, I think we can try
(12:56):
this, we can try that.
And so basically what welearned was, if you go cup face
forging which means you'recupping the face right, that
allows for the weld to not be onthe face and then if you create
more bulge and roll morecurvature in the face, it gives
more durability.
If you use the right type of Imean the beta titanium's we're
using right now, it's like ourseventh different one is flat
(13:20):
out unbelievable.
And then when you heat, treatit the way we do into super hard
rock will be the curvaturegives durability.
The dual welding gives thedurability.
The beta titanium's that havethe structure that's needed,
especially when, when, whenyou've hit it a lot, that it
doesn't just snap face and thenyou create.
(13:41):
You create all the rigid, youcreate the, the body rigidity,
like we do with all thelouvering, with all the raised
center section, the bottomsection, all of this stuff
creates.
When a ball hits the face of acrank driver, that body does not
expand.
We expand 20% of every otherdriver.
(14:07):
So what happens when the ballhits the face of a carbon body?
It just expands okay.
That's why I think halloweencreated jailbreak, because they
didn't want the expansion.
But we don't have expansion,okay, but now they're 360 carbon
body that expands a lot.
So I don't know what jailbreak'sfor, but the point is this that
we're fully cut-faced, we'reable to weld.
(14:30):
Our weld is up on the crown allthe way around the tune.
Underneath there is no weld onthe face like you see with the
majors they have an insert piece.
So there's like 12 reasons whyI think our drivers are super
special.
But the main ones are cupfacing, beta titanium, dual heat
, treating body rigidity andcreating and bulge and roll your
(15:00):
balance points.
I mean even like something assimple as our dual weight weight
ports here.
Those significantly reduce thecurve of the ball because it
reduces the angular spin of theball.
So when you've been doing it 22years and you've been, you've
been testing in the most severekyle berkshire world, you learn
(15:30):
a lot, yeah, and so we create,we, we sell two clubs, we sell
our driver, our drivers and ourfairwoods um, and we are
launching a new mini driverwhich I haven't even talked
about anybody.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
But oh, it's popular.
Many drivers are popular rightnow this is a very cool.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
It's 11 and a half degrees and it's built exactly
like our drivers.
And then, of course, ourfairwoods, which are super
special because they're all cut,faced with miraging steel.
They're super thin faced andthis happens to be we just
launched our two wood, so wemake all the different lofts and
different fairwoods.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, that's something I don't think a lot of
people I wasn't even aware.
I thought you guys werespecifically long drivers and
and that's what you sell.
So when I first startedchatting with you I was like
Holy crap, I had no idea.
So I want to, I want to bringup the website here real quick
and show people, cause they cango on and look at the website
(16:24):
and see I mean, there's firstoff, there's a ton of
information on this website, butright here, 3wd+ 3WD, 5wd, 7wd,
9wd, 11wd, 13wd, 15wd that'snot just drivers, that's not
normal.
That's not normal.
But then you also you know thedrivers you have.
(16:44):
You know a variety of driversas well, so let's get into the
drivers.
What are the different headsthat you sell and the unique
characteristics of them?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Okay so, I love golf and I love talking golf.
I love talking golf, I lovetalking drivers, I love talking
equipment and you know there'sjust so many opinions of what
makes something work or not work.
It's just really the craziestsport in the world because it's
the toughest sport in the world.
So we, we specialize.
(17:20):
We specialize in drivers and itallows us to build fairways and
mini drivers because of thetechnology is very, very similar
.
But what we've noticed over theyears is and this is really the
big switch for Crank abouteight years ago was to say, hey,
why are older golfers losing somuch distance?
(17:42):
Older golfers losing so muchdistance, and I mean honestly,
it'd be crazy like in five yearsa guy's gonna do 70, 80 yards
of their drive and nobody reallyknew why.
And I didn't really know why.
And and because I always made along drive version and a
playing version.
The long drive version had alittle more bulge and roll for
for stability and durability.
(18:02):
It had a little bit thickerface to roll for stability and
durability.
It had a little bit thickerface because they're swinging at
150 miles an hour.
And then my playing version hada little less curve in the face
but way more curve thaneverybody else, and then a
little bit thinner face becauseyou didn't need the durability,
but both were conforming becausethey both passed the rules by
the USGA.
They just happened to pass therules by the USGA, they just
(18:25):
happen to.
Well, the problem was that tostay conforming, to stay like
the 0.83 core or the 257 CT, ifyou know what that means, what
happens was that once you getunder that 110 mile an hour
swing speed, you start to losethe trampoline effect of the
face of that driver quickly.
So when guys turn 40, 45, 50,depends on their health or their
(18:46):
speed they slowly start toswing down to that 105, 100, 95,
90, 85.
Once you start losing that, youlose the one thing that's
called the extra credit, extrabonus, and that's trampoline
effect, the spring of the faceof a driver.
Think about it the face of adriver has the potential, when
(19:09):
the ball hits the face, for itto go in and spring off.
Now, when we had persimmon woodsthere was no trampoline effect.
Right, right, the block of wood.
But with titanium you have thepotential of that.
But the problem is, if you'reconforming, you start
significantly losing that springeffect at about 105 mile an
hour swing speed.
(19:29):
So when you're 100, 90, 87, mywife swings 62 miles an hour.
How much spring effect does sheget off a normal driver?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
zero, zero right which is unfair to her so her
147 yard drives aren't as fun.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
But if I give her the same spring effect value that
john rom enjoys or anyone elsethat swings 115 to 120 right
that 0.83 core, then she hits it30 yards longer.
So she's hitting it 27, 175,180, 185 instead of 150.
(20:04):
And that's more fun for her andit's also more fair.
And so we decided to make threedifferent face thicknesses.
So we make a conforming driverthat is on the USGA approved
list, which is the Fire Pro, andthen we make a Fire X.
That's a little bit thinner butit's really rated for people
that swing 105 to 80.
(20:25):
And then we make a fire doubleX.
That's really thin faced,that's under 80 mile an hour
swing speed.
So we make three drivers thepro, the X and the double X and
you can hit whichever one youwant based on your swing speed.
So if you're a super fast swingspeed and you hit a really thin
(20:46):
face, you'll ruin the driver,so don't buy it yeah, that that
was going to be my next question.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
What happens when a high swing speed player swings a
thin face like that?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
they hit it 30 to 40 yards shorter and they ruin it,
so they waste their money goodto know don't waste your money
so people, people say well, whatyou're just trying to make the
longest guys hit further.
Actually, there is no materialknown to man that can do that.
Our pro driver, beingconforming, is, in my opinion,
the longest hitting driver inthe world.
(21:17):
It's the most durable at theswing speeds that.
Hit it.
I still swing about 130, whichis quite high.
Hit it.
I still swing about 130, whichis quite high.
And I know for a fact that if Ihit the x, the middle face
thickness one, I hit that 30yards shorter than the pro.
So it doesn't, really itdoesn't because the material
just can't handle it so why?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
why is the usga not willing to conform?
Because that would be what Iwould think that you know if, if
you make a thin face conforming, then the, the guys that swing
it hard, are going to take this,this driver, and hit it further
.
But you're saying that that'snot the case.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
They don't know.
That's very well known to manthat can do that so what?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
why?
What's preventing them from?
Because it sounds like it wouldmake golf more enjoyable for
the you know, know, 98% of thegolfing world, compared to the
2% of the elite guys.
If the higher swing speedplayers aren't getting a benefit
out of it, why is the USGA soanti a thinner face?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I think it's really.
I think there's a few reasonsI've asked this question.
I mean, think about it.
We've for us to have 36 WorldLong Drive Championships and
submitted so many drivers andbeing on their radar that our
number one goal is to hit theball longer.
We're on their radar period.
So I've talked with them many,many times about it.
It's complicated because theadvantages that we have doing
(22:41):
cut-face forging, because it'sall hand-done and it's super
specialized beta titanium and Icould sit here for hours and
talk about it, but the fact isthe majors don't ever build what
I build.
They can't because they need 2million of them.
Yeah, no one's building 2million crank heads.
(23:02):
No one's building 2 millioncrank heads.
One of the reasons I think thatthey've never really evaluated
buying us because we build ourheads so different than what
they do.
They pour cast molds, they havean insert face that's not even
beta titanium and now they'redoing 360 bodies that are carbon
and you got Tatermade carbonlining the face of a driver that
(23:27):
the backing of its titanium.
Well, clearly the age oftitanium is not over if you're
still using titanium in the backof the face yeah you know, it's
not like it's not a secret theyhad massive breakage issues.
So the the fact is there,there's, there's so much more to
the situation that we do as faras making our drivers.
(23:50):
I mean being willing to handcut face and welding everything
by hand is a completelydifferent game plan.
I mean, to build 100,000 ofcrank drivers is is really
really crazy amount of work.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
So Do you think you guys are, are like singled out
and jaded, like we?
We don't, we don't want toconform this, because then we're
going to lose sales and let'saddress the conformity thing
with the USG.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I kind of got away from it.
The conformity thing with theUSG, I kind of got away from it.
There's no way in the world themajors want to deal with
multiple face thickness thebreakage issues that exist
already are significant To gointo a thinner face.
Think about it the face of apro driver the fire pro driver
is 2.7 millimeters.
(24:43):
That is significantly thinnerthan any major.
We're talking 3.8 to 4millimeter thick faces.
We're 2.7.
We're both conforming.
How do we pull that off?
We pull that off because wehave more curve in the face.
Our metal's significantlyharder and we're cup facing, so
we have more perimeter supportperiod.
And we're cup facing, so wehave more perimeter support
(25:09):
period.
Our row conforming driver loadsbetter at slower swing speeds
than does any driver in theworld and it absolutely loads
better at faster swing speedswith more durability.
But if I take that same, thatsame manufacturing style, and I
thin the face from 2.7 to 1.9,which is the X and give it to
somebody that swings slower,they get the same spring effect
(25:31):
that the faster swing speeds get.
They don't get more, they getthe same And83 now the the only
way that you can have that manyface thicknesses is to have the
(25:53):
type of construction method thatwe have with the metal we have
and they are never going to dothat yeah too,
much work, too much work, andit's just you can't mass produce
it as they need.
Think about it.
I mean, how many drivers a yeardoes callaway sell worldwide
what I mean?
Come on, just a few, yeah, andyou know, and it's not like any
(26:16):
of these companies build baddrivers, it's just that their
curve in the face is is too flat.
They flatten out quicker.
Their breakage is significantand they're telling you know, 82
year old women, that they'regoing to gain 20 yards.
They're not.
They're they're not gettingfaster, stronger and younger,
they're getting older, weakerand slower.
And we build, we're built theonly driver that that really
(26:38):
actually adds distance.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
The hot topic in the driving world starting last year
was 10K, 10k, 10k.
Everybody's going 10K with theMOI.
So with how rigid your face isand it doesn't flex, is MOI even
something you worry about, ordo you know that you're going to
(27:01):
have the durability, so it'snothing that even needs to be?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
pondered.
I don't really worry about it.
What I worry about is twothings, three things.
I worry about control.
How straight is this driver?
Okay, I also worry about speed,and I also worry about speed
and I also worry aboutdurability.
(27:28):
And when I can hand somebody adriver, that is probably the
great and and we can get intobryson later too.
But think about what reallyhappened probably the greatest
striker of an at speed in thehistory of professional golf and
(27:49):
he he literally takes off of a,takes a head off of a shaft,
puts on our head and in 10 days,shoots 58, wins back-to-back
tournaments after not winningfor three years, wins the us
open, leads the masters for twodays, finishes second at the pga
, his team wins the livechampionship.
(28:12):
It completely revolutionizedthe way he played the game.
In 12 months period.
All he did was take a head offand put another head on.
It's crazy.
It's crazy, and so nobody cansay anything other than the fact
that he hits it straighter,with more control.
I believe he hits it further,but that doesn't even matter.
(28:33):
We don't even talk aboutdistance with Bryson, because
the only thing that reallymatters is he's going to hit it
three, 30, 40, 50, 60 all daylong.
That's just kind of what he does, but is it going to be playable
?
Is he going to be able tocontrol it?
And so the the bulge and rollall the things that we've done
for 22 years.
That is what has created thatopportunity for him.
(28:55):
And we do make unique clubs andnobody else makes them like we
do.
Absolutely nobody does.
And so, yeah, are we at thepariah?
Yeah, we're never going tocompete with Calhoun, tatum,
tattles or Ping or Cobra or PXGwhen it comes to advertising
dollars.
But when you can hand somebodya driver and it completely
(29:17):
changes the trajectory of theirentire career, how do you argue
with that.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, it's impressive , all right, so I I want to ask
you this and share in thedriver's face.
I, I am under the belief thatgolf has changed from what's not
under the belief.
I believe that the driver usedto be the hardest club in the
bag to hit and now it's theeasiest.
You, you had like going back tothe Persimmons, and even the
(29:44):
small, small driver heads back.
You know, in the in theeighties, where you were
required to hit the center ofthe face in order to hit a good
golf shot.
Now we have, like I said, withthe MOI and the drivers and
super forgiving.
You know Scotty Shelfers on TVhitting a 300 yard drive off the
toe.
Um, I, I think that is one ofthe things that is hurting golf.
(30:11):
Is these guys just getting upthere wildly throwing?
I mean, don't get me wrong,they are very talented.
You know you don't become anelite professional golfer
because you're not talented, butthey're the.
The risk off the t it's, it'snot.
It's not affecting these guys,they just get up there, they
bomb it down there because thosedrivers are so easy to hit.
Now is am I right with that andthinking that I mean I?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
don't think you're right at all.
Matter of fact, are they easierto hit?
But think about this.
I mean I I traveled a lot lastyear.
I went to most of all theevents with bryson.
I'm watching every one of theseguys ripping balls into houses.
Come on, they struggle.
Cam smith, one of the greatestgolfers of all time, struggled
(30:58):
with his driver so bad last year.
I just watched, watched it say,oh my gosh, this guy be winning
every freaking tournament if hecould a fairway.
So to say that everyone'shitting.
I've watched John Rom ballsinto freaking no man's land.
I'm like, oh my God, my driverdoesn't even curve that much to
do that.
I know I'm not trying to besuper controversial, but I'm
(31:21):
saying the flat of the face, themore the curve, and that's just
the way that it works.
You got to have more bowls androll to control these absolute.
When the ball starts curving,it doesn't stop curving if
you're having a flat face.
And that's really why Brysonloves what we do and that's why
why, even like he's trying tomake his own driver now with LA
(31:42):
golf that they're trying to putinto play everything that crank
is.
That's the absolute truth.
So and so if you you say thateverybody's hitting so much
easier, the driver is so muchstraighter.
I don't know that.
I see that.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Well, I wouldn't say straighter, I would say more
forgiving.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Straighter is forgiving, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Well, no, I'm talking like if a toe strike or a heel
strike would normally send it 30yards off the fairway and now
it's only sending it 10, becauseit's more forgiving these guys
when they get up there and theyhave that shot, because it's
more forgiving.
These guys, when they get upthere and they have that shot, I
(32:29):
don't think the pure ballstriker is being rewarded,
because now you have guys thatmaybe don't have that talent of
scoring up the face and hittingit in the center every time are
getting an advantage over thosepure ball strikers, and I would
like to see that aspect of thegame get come, come, dialed back
a little bit.
Everybody is going nuts aboutdistance and oh, let's make the
(32:52):
masters 8,000 yards and and.
But you, I love seeing theshort courses, like Harbor town,
where you know it's, it's anaccurate tee shot is required to
get around that golf course.
And uh, you know you can't justgo go blast at three, 30 and
and hope to get, you know, putup a good score.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
It's just I don't know it's, it's a different era.
It's a different era but Idon't think it's as dramatic as
what people think.
I mean I think there's there'sgreat risk reward.
What people think I mean Ithink there's great risk-reward
to distance hitting.
I know when we were in Mayakobawith Liv last year.
I mean you talk about anxiety.
You hit a ball anywhere, right,it's in the jungle Like these
(33:33):
courses can control driverperformance so easily.
If you really want to controlhow far a person hits the ball,
put in transitions, use themower.
There's so many different ways.
I'm saying some of thesecourses are wide open.
I mean like 35 under in hawaii,I mean recently.
I mean really.
(33:54):
I mean, yeah, you want to setup a wide open space that
there's virtually no stress andthere's no fear and just rip and
go and go.
You know kind of thing you'regoing to get.
But I, I'm just not a bigproponent of changing the ball.
I'm not a big proponent, Idon't believe that there's any
spring effect value known to manthat should, that should limit
(34:16):
the spring effect of a driverface.
Limit the spring effect of adriver face.
Um, I'm just.
I believe that you should usethe mower, your architecture,
because there's some of theseshort courses are magical, some
of the long courses are brutal.
You know what playing all ofthem, we don't want the same guy
winning every freakingtournament man, and they can
(34:38):
control.
They can control it by themower and by the design and by
the transitions and all thestuff that's going on.
I'm just not a big let's.
Let's play with the ball, thatthat gives them an advantage.
But let's change the courses tomake sure that it's fair across
the board, based on skill set.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
That's it that's, I agree, 100.
It's so ridiculous.
How they can, you know, make apenalty shot, penalizing, and
they choose not to?
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah Well, I mean, I don't know.
I think they need to fix thedivot rule anyway.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Oh, let me hear that.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Well, I mean, if your ball rolls in a divot, you
should be able to place it, inmy opinion.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
So I firmly agree with you, one hundred percent
yeah.
But we're not, we're not rollingdice yeah, I, I had somebody
say this to me, okay.
So you hit your ball in themiddle of the fairway, lens in a
divot.
You're pissed off because youhit a great shot.
Yeah, all right, and you'repenalized, all right.
So if you hit a ball right off,the course hits a tree, comes
(35:42):
back to the middle of thefairway.
Do you go over and put yourball back where the tree was
right?
No, you take.
You take it.
Hey, sometimes you get breaks,sometimes you don't, but I still
think you know, fill yourdivots and and at least have the
golf course be as close to whatit was for you, for the next
person.
Yeah, I think it's a dumb rule.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
That's probably one of the very few roles I think
they should change, but at theend of the day I don't have any
say saying that, but I do.
I do believe that there shouldbe a hard look at the unfairness
of of having slow swing speedsforced to hit thick face drivers
.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
You know, and when, when we had our, our, our phone
conversation last week, that iswhat really stuck out with me.
I had never thought of it thatway before that.
You know somebody.
You know I swing at 97 to 98miles an hour.
I was on the track manyesterday.
That's where I'm at right now,pretty happy with that, which is
good.
But you know my friend Trey andmy friend Dan, huge high swing
(36:46):
guys.
They swing it in the 120s andyou know the fact that we play a
similar head.
You know design.
They play a different model butsimilar head design.
Yeah, they're getting a hugeadvantage because they can swing
it faster.
So that really like resonatedwith me.
It's like wow, why is it thatyou know the high swing speed
(37:08):
players are the only onesgetting benefit from the face?
It's, it's an interesting, it'sa very interesting concept.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Well, and you know, nobody really thinks about it, I
didn't think about it, I nevercrossed my mind I'd cranked for
15 years and I literally woke upone day and said I make my long
drive club a little thicker.
And then my plane driverthey're both conforming.
I wonder what's going to happenif I made one a little thinner
(37:36):
and had my friends swing 90miles an hour, hit it, see if
there's any real difference.
That's literally how it allhappened and I called my factory
and I said hey, I want you tomake this, I want you to make
three different face thicknessesand I'm going to test them.
So I brought in some of mybuddies that are really good
golfers that are swingingbetween 95 and 85 and we did
just straight up comparison to aconforming and non-conforming.
(37:58):
These guys were going calm and30 yards and I'll be like, okay,
well, what's their core?
So if core, if core isestablished, which I believe is
around 115 mile an hour swingspeed I mean the cam test is 109
.
So if they're assuming they usethe same ball, because we know
(38:19):
balls deject, they they de sameball because we know balls
degrade quickly.
So, like we know in speedtesting in the long term that if
you really wanted to set a ballspeed record, you had to do it
within the first three hits,because after that you're losing
one mile an hour.
One mile an hour, the balldegrades, right.
So are they using the sameexact ball?
(38:39):
And what ball are they using?
Are they using a 110compression ball?
Are they using a 90?
Are they firing always at 109,which they are?
But what is core?
So for you to get 0.83, let'sassume that whatever a major
manufacturer's driver that's onthe conforming list is very
close to core rating, eventhough the usj uses ct now, but
(39:01):
it's a different subject.
But let's say core 0.83.
You have to swing in.
In my, in my research, you haveto swing at least 115 to get
0.83.
Okay, so 0.83 at 115, that'sgreat.
What if you swing 100?
What's your core?
Certainly not 0.83, no, noteven close, probably 0.73.
(39:23):
So what if you swing 64 milesan hour?
What's your core?
0.2, you can drop whalen.
What if you swing 130?
What's your core above 0.83?
That's fact.
That is absolutely a fact.
So who are the only peoplehitting drivers above court?
(39:44):
The guys that swing the fastest, the guys that need the the
more amount of help they justneed to hit straight.
So.
But then eventually the facewill flatten, you know, whatever
the case, and it'll breakbecause they're swinging 130.
That's why most really fastguys struggle with breaking
(40:06):
drivers.
But at the same time, that'score.
So is it possible for us to say, okay, if you're swinging 115,
you get .83 core.
If you're swinging 100, you get.83 core.
If you're swinging 65 miles anhour, you get .83 core?
Why can't we just giveeverybody 0.83 core?
(40:29):
That's fair right.
We don't force 80-year-oldwomen to hit an extra stiff
shaft, but we force them to hitan extra stiff face.
So we give them a senior ladyflex shaft.
Let's give them the proper faceflex, the proper shaft flex,
the proper shaft flex, theproper ball flex.
Let's give it all to them.
Let them go out and hit 170yards and enjoy the game.
Yeah, you know how many peoplehit our drivers and say I
(40:51):
haven't hit 200 yards in adecade and I just did yesterday
their solution is a bigger headthat's lighter and more
forgiving.
Well, and I get.
But you've got to have thespring effect and you can't go
bigger than 450.
No one's proven that above 450has any value.
But if you want to go there andget the proper face thickness,
(41:12):
get the proper face flex, usethe right shaft, the right face,
the right ball and go enjoy thegame.
99% of all golf is under 105mile an hour swing speed and yet
100% of all golf, if they'rehitting a normal head, is
(41:33):
hitting a head rated for 115swing speed.
What that's crazy?
That's crazy.
Why do we do that?
That's just so stupid.
But you know, if the USGA wantsto to, if the pga wants to have
these rules, that's great.
It applies to pga, but itdoesn't apply to men's club no,
not, not at all that's not alead amateur, it's not a
(41:55):
professional.
So yeah, my opinion's different.
I think that we should enjoythe game.
I I think we're using drivers.
I think if the guys swinging115 plus are getting 0.83,
everyone deserves it and it iscompletely unfair to stop that.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Do you think the USGA will ever come around and
realize that?
Speaker 2 (42:14):
I think they already realize it.
The problem is, how do youconvince Callaway to make three
different face thicknesses whenthey're metals, poured metal?
What a pain, oh my gosh.
Can you imagine?
Oh hey, we're going to make a1.4 millimeter.
I mean, how long, how longwould they last?
It's crazy.
It gets super complicated.
We were small enough that wecan manage it, but we also do
(42:37):
cup face forging.
We don't pour metal and wedon't use any carbon.
We use a hundred percenttitanium.
I mean, think about it.
Are you wanting to weldtitanium pieces together or do
you want to glue carbon together?
Speaker 1 (42:49):
One's significantly cheaper than the other.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Who wants first of all, who wants to deal with
titanium, even though it's thebest in the world, and who
really wants to weld when theycan glue?
Speaker 1 (43:02):
So is anybody else doing what you're doing?
Hmm, not to give them any wedidn't create co-facing.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
We didn't create that , we perfected it.
We didn't create bolts and roll, we increased it.
You know, we're super carefulwith the type of beta titaniums
we use in the face, because youcan have some type of beta
titaniums we use in the face,because you can have some really
phenomenal beta titaniums, butonce they get beat up and
microfractured, a lot of thembreak.
The ones we currently use areincredibly durable in its worn
(43:31):
out state, like the people thathave hit it 5,000 times.
That's where things break Withcrank.
It just continues to just behot and it's not going to snap
break in the face.
So so I, I, I don't know of anycompany put it this way, no one
has ever.
(43:52):
When crank was fully committedto world long drive, no one ever
made a driver like us, and alot of people tried, but they
made a couple big mistakes.
They thought the face needed tobe thinner.
That made it hit worse.
The more your face flattens,the the less straight it hits,
and there's so many littlethings that I opted for a little
(44:12):
less spring effect, a littlemore curvature and, in the end,
at the fastest swing speeds, itpaid dividends when they had to
hit it under pressure at thefastest swing speeds it paid
dividends when they had to hitit under pressure, Complicated,
but fun All right.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
So this guy here so I'm currently playing the AI
Smoke.
Okay, if I throw a shaft,because this is a little long
for me.
What loft is that?
Nine degrees.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Nine degree head.
How long is it?
Nine degree head.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
It's an old Harrisonrison on here.
Oh my gosh, that's so yeah, Ithink, I think it's 46 and a
half.
I'm not sure, but I'll measureit.
But so if, if I, if I the shaftthat I'm playing apparently I
play an lagp shaft uh, if I wereto throw that in this head, am,
am I gonna see a difference inyour opinion with this one, not
(45:03):
your new one.
I'm just curious.
Well, that's a new one.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
It's 10 versions ago.
I mean eight versions ago.
I mean it's still beta titaniumand it's still an incredible
driver.
That driver won multiple worldlong drives in multiple
divisions, especially the olderdivisions.
So I think you would hit itreally, really well.
But I think you have to.
You have to be willing tocompare apples to apples.
If you're going to use aspecific shaft in one, you have
(45:29):
to use it in another, and Ithink it would probably be
better for me just to send youour latest driver and then make
your comparison.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Okay, I'm down for that you like that absolutely.
I can do that.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
I I want to hit it straighter and further well, I
um, yeah, I mean it's up to you,because you, you you're
legitimately the fire x, themiddle face thickness.
Unless you only want to hit adriver on the conforming list,
then you can hit the fire pro.
They both perform incrediblywell yeah, I would.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
I would have to have conforming because I I am the
commissioner of a local leaguehere in town that if my my guys
found out I was playing anon-conforming driver are we
non-conforming?
Speaker 2 (46:12):
let's, let's deal with that, are we?
Not or are we non-submitted?
What's the difference?
oh yeah tell me, you know thatonly 50% of the drivers made
around the world every year areever submitted to the USGA.
Yeah, I know that.
Right, so USGA is not the IRS.
Okay, they are very importantbut they help with rules and
(46:44):
regulations and all the thingsthat they've done in the RNA.
But at the same time, withrecreational golf, you can't say
that our X and our double X isnon-conforming because it's
simply non-submitted.
And you also have to take intoconsideration that the swing
speeds that use them don't hitthem past 0.83 core, so how can
(47:06):
they be over core?
So when we say they're highcore, they're not really high
core, they're really fair core.
That's interesting.
So, if you really I mean theseare all his terminologies so if
a person swinging 72 miles anhour hits our fire double X, 1.4
millimeter thin face, he doesnot benefit from more than 0.83
(47:30):
core and if the high swing speedplayer plays it, it's not gonna
it doesn't respond.
Yeah, so again, the only peoplethat are actually hitting above
0.83 core are the ones that arehitting conforming drivers that
swing above 120 one yeah of thewhole whole craziness.
Yeah, but at the same time wecan talk about technology all
(47:51):
day long, but it's still aboutthe fun of the game.
I promise you, when a persongets up and goes from 170 to 200
, their game is a lot more funoh, absolutely they're not a
threat to the game, so let's goout have fun.
So so we have two non-submitteddrivers.
We have two conforming driversour fire ld, which is long drive
(48:13):
version, and our fire pro.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Is it?
Is there a reason you haven'tsubmitted?
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Of course, okay, what do you think?
Speaker 1 (48:24):
I know why.
I just want to know if that'sif you know and that's why you
haven't.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
No, I could submit them so they could fail, so that
I could say that they'renon-conforming.
But that's not the point.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
I don't sell them to people that swing and that get
the face to perform above 0.83yeah, they're, they're not.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Why do I want college ?
Speaker 2 (48:42):
elite 15 mile an hour swing speed.
What's the point of it?
Matter of fact, when they dothat?
Let's say that I send thedouble x into the usg and they
test it at 109 mile an hourcanon test.
It's just going to ruin theface.
Yeah, what's the point?
Why would I submit something soit could be ruined?
It's not even sold to thosepeople.
(49:04):
No, it's.
I mean it's complicated, but atthe same time it's still fun,
it's still cool.
I mean it's still the game.
Is the game?
Even what arnold palmer said Idon't care if you use a baseball
bat.
Go enjoy the game.
True, you know.
Use the equipment that is rightfor you.
If the ball a lower compressionballs are right for you, do
(49:25):
that.
If the shaft flex more flexibleis right for you, do that.
If the face flex is better foryou, use it.
Find the companies that arewilling to actually take care of
you and not force you to hitsomething that's going to hit
significantly less and less fun.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Anyway, do you guys?
Do you guys hold demo daysaround the country, or how?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
how to?
We're mainly online.
We've been online for 22 years.
We, you know we're.
We're not a traditional.
We're not going to go into thedistribution.
We're not going to go get in50,000 stores like Callaway.
We're not.
You know we're.
We're not a traditional.
We're not going to go into thedistribution.
We're not going to go get in 50000 stores like callaway we're
not.
You know they're on theirfourth generation.
I'm the first generationstarter of this.
So we, we prefer to be online.
We have a great fitting toolonline.
(50:09):
Um, if you have any issues withit at all, we'll replace it for
you for free.
Um, it's really not thatcomplicated to get fitted for a
driver.
It's really complicated to getfitted for irons.
That's why we don't make them.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say next.
So you guys are strictly goingto stick with fairway clubs
drivers and fairway clubs.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Drivers and fairways and many, but could we make
irons?
I think the number one reason Idon't make irons is I don't
think I can make them better.
What exactly are you going todo to make a better iron than
Strixon or Tatermade or, youknow, the Zuno?
What are you going to do?
Is there any technology in anyway, shape or form that's going
(50:52):
to make that iron perform better?
Because I can tell you that ourperformance, our manufacturing
style of our drivers isabsolutely better.
That is a technology that I canabsolutely make better.
No one's going to do what I dobecause it's too much work and
it's too difficult to make amillion plus drivers, but when
(51:16):
it comes to irons, I don't thinkI can make them better.
Could I make them and sell abunch of them?
I could, but that's just not mypassion.
It's not my passion.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
All right, let's talk .
Bryson, okay, yeah, so great.
Like you said, like you, youprefaced it earlier.
Amazing year for him.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
I mean he's.
He's a blessing for us too.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Absolutely.
I mean a lot of eyes on yourproduct.
I mean, one of the reasonswe're talking to you right now
is because the popularity ofcrank, because of Bryson.
Why, why, why is he doing whathe's doing in your opinion?
Why is he going away from thisand trying to?
You've got a product that isproven.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
It's there for him well, he's still hitting it.
I saw this video.
I mean, yeah, I just sent himfive new drivers.
I mean, okay, good.
But the truth is, I think it'simportant to know where we start
and I, we, we have to givecredit where credit's due.
It's the only way it works.
So when Mike Shy, his coach,called me and said, bryson wants
(52:27):
to try your driver, and I saidOK, we'll put him on the phone
and let's talk, I mean we're nota beginner company.
There has to be value in 36World Long Drive Championship.
It doesn't matter.
We have developed a driver thatno one in the world has ever
developed because no one's evertested in the environment that
(52:47):
we were forced to.
So, no matter what I don'treally care what anybody thinks
the fact that we pulled off whatwe pulled off over these years
meant that we learned at leastsomething Right.
And so I said to him what doyou?
What's going on?
He goes I can't quit the curve,I can't quit flattening faces,
I can't quit breaking stuff.
And you know, this is nothingnew, everyone's watched his, his
(53:10):
comments, right.
And so I'm like, okay, well,here's the deal.
We're going to send you thisdriver.
I sent him a seven, five and asix and he called me and I
overnighted it.
The next night he called me andhe says, okay, I got to have an
answer for for what's going on.
I said what's that?
He goes.
Why.
Why does this driver curve 60%less than any driver I've ever
(53:34):
tested?
And he goes.
I'm testing like I have dataand I said it's because of these
reasons.
It's because of our bulls androlls, because of our metal,
it's because of our cup facingis because of our body rigidity,
it's because of like 10 thingsthat crew together makes that
driver hit straighter and curveless and less, less flattening
(53:55):
of the face and all the stuffthat you want.
And he said, okay, he goes.
Okay, I love it, he goes.
Uh, can you send me a fairway?
I said, sure, they're builtexactly the same way.
They're not titanium, they'remiraging steel, but they're.
My fairways are super unique,they're super durable, super
fast, super straight.
And he, okay.
(54:16):
So I sent him a three and fivewood and he has the driver.
Well, 10 days later he goes outand shoots 58.
He took the head off and put ahead on.
That's all he did.
And then he added the three andfive wood which he hits a nine
and a 12 degree, which is reallynot a three and five wood, but
that's what he calls it and goesout and wins back-to-back
(54:40):
Shoots 58, wins that tournament.
The next week he wins again andthen he goes out and, like I
said, he really had a phenomenalyear, with all the craziness.
I mean even like the US Open.
I mean he was number onestrokes gained off the tee day
one.
Day two, 22.
Number number 22 had a bad day,but still better than average.
(55:02):
The next day he's number fourstrokes gained off the tee.
And then, his final day, hedecides to change the head 10
minutes before he's teeing offbecause he wanted a lower loft.
Because that's how bson worksIf he gets something in his head
, he just says I want to do this.
And the real truth was when hechanged he asked me for he goes
what do you have in your bag?
(55:23):
And I said you're hitting adriver, that you just were
fourth strokes gained off thetee.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (55:30):
You're leading the US Open by six strokes.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (55:38):
But you know we're sitting there right.
I said, well, I got five and ahalf because he's a six and like
five and a quarter.
The crazy thing is he put it ona shaft and he hit three balls
Absolute newt.
And he looked around, he goesI'm hitting this one and he
walked to the tee box andcouldn't hit a freaking fairway
to save his life.
It was too low, right, but hewas still 12th strokes gained
(56:07):
off the tee.
Think about it as bad as he hitthat driver, he was still
ranked 12th strokes gained offthe tee because he hits the ball
so freaking far that even whenit wasn't exactly in the fairway
it was still usable andplayable.
And then, of course, he hitsour three and five wood, which
he even said himself he wouldn'thave won the US Open without
our three wood because he drovethat par four with it.
So there was our time, you know, and it's great.
(56:32):
But I think it's important tounderstand that he said to me no
contracts, no money, I'll hitit as long as I want to hit it.
I want you to know that I planon.
I've always wanted to make myown equipment.
I just didn't know howaggressive he was going to be on
that.
It's really hard to build thetype of driver that we have.
So he's in the process ofbuilding this driver with LA
(56:52):
Golf and it's their first try atbuilding a driver.
I think it's, you know,whatever.
It's really unfortunate.
I think it would have beenreally cool to be able to work
together, but he's a partnerwith them, so but it wasn't like
he wasn't clear from thebeginning.
(57:13):
So for me, um, I know for afact he's hitting my driver
three and five wood today inindia.
Um, and they're working onwhatever they can do and, you
know, maybe someday we'll beable to work together.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Um, we'll see so him playing and winning the us open?
How many other tourprofessionals have come to you
and asked to try it?
Speaker 2 (57:41):
at least it's a very complicated question Quite a few
.
But getting them to actuallyhit your driver and walk from a
major when they've got theirdiesel truck sitting out there
ready to take care of you andthey've got a big check waiting
there ready to take care of youand they've got a big check
waiting you have to really wantto win.
(58:02):
And let's face it, bryson'smade a lot of money and by
winning, absolutely and you knowwhat Every aspect of his career
is better because he's winning,including his YouTube videos,
including his social media,including everything.
(58:22):
I mean, how how much successand how much attention are you
going to get if you're alwayslosing?
Not very much, so winning is sowinning is the key and we've had
quite a few people hit ourdrivers and a lot of people told
me they were going to hit themin the end sign a contract with
a major that that includes theirdriver.
So I don't think any of themajors want crank around in in
(58:46):
on the pga tour and stuff likethat sorry, is your focus going
forward now?
Speaker 1 (58:53):
uh, more recreational golfers Are you?
Are you focused on tourprofessionals?
Where?
Speaker 2 (59:02):
where do you see you guys pushing your name the most?
I would love to get moreprofessional golfers to actually
hit us, but they have to beable to work within the
parameters that we can.
We can do.
I mean, there's there's so manyprofessional golfers out there,
but how many amateur golferscan really benefit from our
technology?
And they do.
We sell a lot of drivers.
(59:22):
We've been around a long timeand we've sold many, many, many
drivers, but we're the onlycompany willing to push the
boundaries to actually give theman advantage and more enjoyment
in the game, making everythingfair when it comes to spring
effect.
I can tell you that that it'sit's the most important thing
that we do is to is to reallypush into the mass golf
(59:46):
population.
99 of golfers swing under 105.
Let's not forget that.
That means 99 of golfers plusare hitting a driver face that's
not rated for what they need.
Let's change that right, let'schange that.
I think we're trying and Ithink, when it comes to like
(01:00:08):
Bryson, I hope someday that wecan actually work together.
And I think, who knows?
I mean, if they pull off thegreatest driver in the world
because it's going to have to beto be crank, and if it was that
great, he'd probably already behitting it, um, but I don't
want the conflict.
You know, I'm grateful for whathe's done, I'm grateful for the
fact that he, that he workedwith us, and but he's also
(01:00:33):
grateful for us.
It's a win-win situation and itwould be cool if we could work
together going forward.
But he's got his contracts andhe's got his ownerships and he's
got his goals and we'll seewhere it all goes in the end.
If not, it's just been anincredible ride and we're way
better off because of it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Do you have the vault , like Ping does with all their
championship putters, you getyour gold.
Uh.
World champion, uh crank closetno, but I do.
Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
I do have, I do have, I do have his us open two
drivers.
I have the driver he used forthe first three days and I have
the driver he used on sunday.
Awesome, so that's pretty coolthat.
Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
That is very cool, very cool, let me say this.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
He's also a really nice guy and he has really good
intentions, you know, and so Ithink it's business is business
and it's tough sometimes, um,but I do believe it's going to
be really hard for him or anyoneelse to actually replace the
level of performance that ourdrivers bring to the table.
Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
yeah, I, I admit he, he is a great chat.
I, when the live event was herein vegas, we had media passes
and I chatted him up walkingbetween a couple t-boxes and he,
he's engaging, he chats withyou.
Of course I I'm I'm very anti.
Grow the game.
I think the game is like huge,it doesn't need to grow anymore.
(01:02:01):
Why is that it's because, uh,tea times in Vegas.
Well, you probably are dealingwith this down in Arizona too uh
tea times are.
You know, a course that I usedto pay 45 dollars at is now 110.
There's no tee times available.
Stop growing the game.
Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
That's great.
I think about the same thingaround here.
It's like in the summer youused to get on anywhere.
It's 115 degrees out.
Yeah, you're in Vegas andthey're still full, like I'm
like, oh my gosh, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
We used to have, we used to my local course.
It's Revere it course, it'sreverence.
Right down the street from methere used to be a 19 after
three.
It was 19 after three o'clockbecause it's a retirement
community that the course isbuilt around, the.
The seniors are not coming outafter 10 o'clock because it's,
like you said, 115 degrees.
So for 19 bucks I would get offwork, I'd show up at 4 30, I'd
(01:02:51):
play 18 holes in an hour and ahalf to two hours.
For 19.
It was fantastic.
That fantastic.
That right now is $75.
That's right.
And it's full.
It's full.
So stop growing the game,bryson.
Stop it.
But I respect him.
He's a great conversationist.
Anytime that we've had anybanter regarding him on the show
(01:03:11):
or on our Instagram page, healways responds.
So I love him for that.
Our Instagram page he alwaysresponds.
Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
So it's I love him.
I love him for that.
I think he's such a greatambassador for the game.
You know he brings fun to thegame.
I mean, I think him going tolive really opened up the
opportunity for him to get thekind of promotion him winning
and winning and doing so muchbetter than he did in the
(01:03:36):
previous three years helped hima ton.
So he's a great ambassador.
I think that he really isputting his money where his
mouth is on some of the projectsthat he's involved in right now
.
Absolutely Hopefully we can allstay close and work together
All right, I'm going to throwthe website up on here.
Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
It's crankgolfcom.
The'm gonna throw the thewebsite up on here.
It's crank golf dot com.
Uh, the drivers, I got thewebsite up here.
They sell for 549.
Uh, that includes the shaft,correct?
Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
it is, and I mean we're always going to have some
type of discount.
We have 150 off, so they're 399right now.
That's a great price for thisdriver, absolutely, and 150 off
the fairwoods and then we'llwe'll launch the mini driver
pretty soon.
It's really interesting.
It's fully cup-faced titaniummicro driver and it's fully
adjustable Awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
Well, lance, thank you so much for joining us,
thanks for being the firstinterview for us, for 2025.
And I'll have all the links toeverything in the show notes
below and this will go out onour regular podcast platform as
well as YouTube.
So thank you so much for yourtime and I can't wait to see
what you guys do next.
Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Okay, thanks brother, thank you you.
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