#37 High Noon in New York City

Chatting about writing Westerns, the creative process, maintaining steady success, the trials of parenting during summer, taking inspiration from the Fast and Furious movies, the realities of international relations, solo travel and New York City's reputation through the decades.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
And we're back Wee-ho .
Woo-hoo.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Friday.
It is Friday, Dear kids.
Do the whole wake up in themorning and go oh, thank god
it's Friday.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
You know, I, no, not really.
I think they mostly enjoyschool.
Yeah, same with mine,especially after this was.
I mean, it was a long summer inits way, mm-hmm, less
activities, I think, than usual.
It felt busy to me because theywere home more and we were
dealing with more stuff, and Ithink to them especially my
daughter, where she didn't dothe summer care program at all

(00:32):
this summer it was like, okay,no, I'm ready to go back to my
friends now.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, I think all of mine were to a certain degree.
Mine are just by the timeFriday comes around, because
they all have their thingsduring the week.
They're tired, they're ready tosleep in the next day and CMSun
has a long run tomorrow at 7o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Oh god, is that practice?
Yeah, it's practice.
Every freaking.
It's six days a week, most ofthe time, but still cross
country.
Yeah, that's cross country.
Oh god, High school crosscountry.
And it's like it's so hot thisweek that they canceled practice
.
It's hot Every day and I wastelling, like I said to you
before, like the only practicesthey did run Tuesday and
Thursday at 5.30 in the morning.

(01:13):
Oh no, and I'm like no, he'snot going to be there, for that
it was funny.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
You know, I get to the door today and you're like
come in, come in, come in, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick
Don't let the devil in it sayson the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
the thermometer or whatever like feels like 101
right now.
Yeah, yeah, and it's still got.
The mercury is still climbing.
I think it's going to makeanother four or five degrees.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
My son gets in the car.
When I pick him up in schoolyesterday, at any point to the
thermometer in the car he goesis it really 100?
I'm like, well, not really,we're on blacktop, so it says
it's 95, but really the heatindex?
I mean the heat index has beenlike 107, right.
Something like that.
It's brutal.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Fun times.
They're really unpleasant Notmy cup of tea.
I'm thankful, though, like oneof the realtors we talked to
when we first moved down here,he nailed it.
Tennessee has four seasons thatshow up almost right on time
every year, and so, yeah, it'sAugust, it's hotter than hell
and humid as Louisiana, butit'll pass.

(02:14):
Yep, I hope it's actually beena fairly decent summer so far.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
It's funny because it hasn't been bad until like two
weeks ago, because when itreally in this week, I mean,
we've had cancellations.
Last week was a nice littlebreak in the middle of it.
Yeah, we did, and it's supposedto cool off on Sunday like back
down in the 80s again.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
We're old, we're talking about weather.
I know right here and there'sno yell at these clouds for
blotting out my sunshine.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
No offense to anyone over my age listening right now.
But you're old, yes, yeah,sorry, I don't talk that way.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, oh, they don't talk like Grandpa Simpson, no,
they talk like angry boomers.
That they are Angry boomersJust kidding, oh, my gosh, sort
of yeah.
It's been a little crazy and Ithink we barely talked about it.
So I adopted a shorter, slowerpace for the last couple of
weeks, starting this next book.

(03:09):
Okay, so I'm at 40,000 wordsfor it.
So I've been doing 20,000 wordsa week, which is like 5,000
less than my normal pace.
I'm loving it because I forgetwhat happened.
Like last week we had a halfday or something going on where
some sort of event I cannotrecall what it is and I'm like
oh, my brother and sister in lawcame to town on.

(03:30):
Friday, and I'm like I'm notgoing to pressure myself to hit
a full week's worth of work whenI've got four, maybe four and a
half days tops.
And so I hit the 20,000 thenand I like looked at my schedule
for this week and it's like Ihad a lunch one day and I had,
you know, doctor appointmentsfor kids and like, okay, let's
try 20,000 against you how thisfeels.
I'm like I'm 40,000 words in,I'm cruising along.

(03:51):
I have enough time in betweenmy writing sessions every day.
Like I watched fast five theother night because this is more
of a heist book, and I'vewatched fast five, which I was
just listening to us talk aboutit I think one of the podcasts,
like maybe the one that releasedtoday and I love fast five so
much I hadn't seen it in a fewyears.
It's so great.
It's a heist movie, though.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Which one is that one ?
Is that the one with the Brazil?
Yeah, that's the one you weretalking about.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
This is Brazil.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
That was a fun one.
It is, it's a lot of fun.
But it gave me, likeclarification on two of the
things I really needed to know.
Like I'm sitting there, I'mlike, oh, I do need an immediate
antagonist, not just anoverarching antagonist, to pull
this off properly.
I'd been kind of, and then itclarified for me, like what is
the Sienna of it all?

(04:38):
Cause this is Girl in the Box56.
I'm like what is it that makesthis heist story unique?
Cause before it was like, oh,I'll just have to write it kind
of like as a military thrillerwith some people with
superpowers, and I'm like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Like everything in fast fiverevolves around the cars, the
gadgets, the coolness, the fastand furious of it all, whereas,

(04:59):
you know, if you watch Ocean'sEleven, it's just more of a
traditional heist where it'slike it's about the character
weaving cleverness of it all.
And so it was very clarifyingin that those breaks in between
where I wasn't rushing my selfallowed me time to kind of
breathe.
I'm juggling three differentstorylines in it, so each of
them it was like I pick up oneone day and just like roll
through 6,000 words on it Monday, tuesday and Wednesday, and so

(05:23):
yesterday I had a full scheduleand I only got 2,000 words in,
and this morning I did 1,600, tolike put it over the top for
the 20, and I just felt so greatabout it, cause it's like I'm
done by eight o'clock thismorning.
I got my workout in already.
I've done cardio every day thisweek, which is not necessarily
a thing I've been doing a lot of, especially this summer, and so
I don't know, I just I feelreally good about it.

(05:44):
I mean, another two to threeweeks, I'll have this one
wrapped up and I can start onthe, the next in the new series,
girl who Ran Away.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Well, I'm glad yours is going well because, like I
mentioned before, mine is notgoing as well.
It's funny because it's been aharder story to tell for a
couple of reasons.
One is I shrunk the I'm usuallykind of a little more panoramic
on what the scene is.
Now it's very focused, it's oneplace, it's a couple of

(06:16):
characters.
And the other thing too is Ithink I was in the beginning and
this is full disclosure I thinkI was pouting a little bit.
I'm like I'm not ready to startwriting again.
Like you know, I want summer tokeep going.
Like that's really how I felt.
So I walked into it and I'm like, fuck it, whatever I want to
write, I'm going to write it.
And so I was writing like like300 to 500 word chapters, which

(06:39):
usually minor, about a thousand,because that's what I do is.
You know, I do three chapters aday.
That's typically at least 3000words a day, if you know three
to 5000 words, and you know.
So I was looking at my wordcount.
I'm like, damn, I think this isgoing to be more like a novella
.
When I'm done with it I'm like,oh geez.
But it's funny because I'mgoing back and reading it and
everything's actually reallytight and it's really like the,

(07:03):
the action and the justeverything's very tight, intense
, which I like.
So it's like, hold on, okay,don't beat yourself up.
Like cause, cause me, I'll look.
Like.
Look at the word count and I'mlike I have one week left to
write five more days.
And all of a sudden I startedputting this pressure on myself
of, well, dude, you're going tohave to start puffing up some
more words or do whatever nextweek.

(07:23):
I'm like, no, just keep rolling.
And of course, today it wasright, in line with what I
usually write, word count wise,you know.
So it's like, dude, chill out.
I, I just, I don't know, it'scool to see you like like
enjoying the process right now.
Like that feeds me a little bit.
Like, dude, carlos, just justchill, enjoy it.
I got five more days Justknocking out, but this time, man

(07:45):
, I've really had.
I mean, I've literally beentaking it one day at a time.
I'm like, all right, I just gotto get through today, just got
to get through today and I did,and I got done today.
I'm like it's Friday.
Okay, I'm going to go talk toRobert.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
Let's go.
I'm going to do a podcast,taking life one paragraph at a
time.
Oh God, One paragraph.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
One paragraph at a time, Apparently.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Fast and the Furious is our touchstone for today.
It's the theme oh my God, ohgeez, but it is funny.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
I mean, how many, how many ups and downs have we been
through just since we've donethis podcast?
Oh, gosh.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, I mean the second half of the first book, a
Girl who Ran Away.
It was exactly like that for me.
Oh, is that what you're callingit?
Yeah, it's called the Girl whoRan Away.
I have the cover for it now,almost.
I mean, I think my cover artistis going to get back to me
today about it, because Ithought I replied to her
yesterday and I accidentallysent it to Alicia instead.
Check that out.
The first book's called Buriedin Lies.

(08:39):
Carlos is looking at the coverright now.
Nice, and that's a final title.
Finally, I went through like 10evolutions on the title before
we came up with that.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Are you going to do a common theme with the titles?

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, Well, no, I mean, I think the second one
might be called Listening toFear, but we'll see.
But the thing about it is it'slike you can never tell.
Like sometimes I'll write abook and it's incredibly hard
slog and I get done and I'm like, actually that is a really
great book and it gets receivedto like huge lauded buttons.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
I know.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
And another one I'll write.
It'll be like the easiest bookI ever wrote is called Pain
Killer.
It's Girl in the Box 18.
I thought it was fantastic andnobody badded an eye at it, Like
you couldn't pick it out of alineup.
People are like, oh yeah, itwas good, it was fun, and some
of it was that I had it done sixmonths before I planned to
release it.
Some of it was that I wrote itin like 12 to 15 days or

(09:31):
something like that.
It just flowed.
It was super easy to write andI mean I don't know, Some of it
was just I introduced charactersin there that have endured
through the series that I reallylove, that were fun to create.
But no one really ever mentionsthat as one of the high points.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Oh that's so funny dude.
Maybe there's something to thatthat like the stuff that we
really have to like claw out ofour soul to put on the page,
like that just resonates morewith people.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
Opening the vein.
Yeah, it's a serious thing.
By the way, did we talk aboutlike?
I've got this kind of regret inmy soul at this point?
I know I've mentioned it in myMighty Network.
I never I've had conversationswith like multiple indie authors
this week and so I neverremember what I've said to you
on the podcast versus what I'vesaid to other people, like I

(10:18):
don't know, these aren't likesuper private conversations.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Okay, I forget everything.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, exactly, but like I mean I'm 56 books into
the series and the biggest partof my readership has fallen off,
I still make a very good living.
It was reminded me by three thethree indie authors I was at
lunch with yesterday is like thegirl in the box.
Books that sell right now sellbetter than like 99% of indie

(10:43):
author books right now.
They were very sweet about it.
Thank you, kelly, shannon andLewis, for reminding me of this,
because sometimes I get up myown ass thinking, oh, it's not
what it used to be, because Iused to sell you know whatever.
And now it's like 10, stilltens of thousands of copies
moved after the release of agirl in the box book, and I'm
like, oh, this is nothingcompared to the ones that sold

(11:03):
out you know hundreds ofthousands of copies.
And it reminded me, though,like some of my best work has
been in the last like three,four years, like ones where,
after, the largest part of myaudience fell away Really.
And like I mean so people readthese books and they're like, oh
, the original 10, they're soamazing, they're so great,

(11:25):
they're so magical, whatever.
And it's like if you didn'tread till I mean the best ones.
I think book 27 is one of thebest things I've ever written.
Book 29 is flat out amazing.
32, 30 or 31 and 32 or likehighs.
38 is like amazing high 48.

(11:50):
I mean I was just I can gothrough and I'm like people will
say in these reviews and I itsounds like hyperbole, they're
like Holy shit.
After 50 books, robert has justhit a new high with whatever
this and fallout 55 was one ofthe ones that's like one of my
best reviewed books and it'slike I feel kind of bad because
like it's not like I set out tobe, like I'm going to hold the

(12:11):
good stuff back for book 55.
It's, my technique improves andI just have to go in different
directions and I don't know.
I mean I just I feel badbecause it's like if I could
have put that in book five, Iwould have in order to really
rivet you people and keep youreading.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
But you know we can't go back.
I mean, here's the thing is wehopefully keep sharpening the
sword, making it better as we go.
I mean we've talked about onand off pod, that it's.
You know, it's not what it wasfive years ago.
No, it's just not.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
And that's very similar to one of the other
conversations I had with theother indie author this week
who's still plugging away.
But I got to thinking about itand, like, a lot of the people I
started out with are gone.
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Just a lot of them, you know,or moved into another section of
the business and had somesuccess there, like as a
consultant or whatever.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
And I don't blame them, no, no go where the money
is.
Go and make sure you're hurthappy.
Well yeah, especially whenyou're slogging away and you're
seeing nothing for your effort.
It's just that's hard.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Well, really hard.
I mean there was a not meme,but it was sort of like set up
in a meme format where there'sthis author, Barbara Cartland.
She wrote like 700 andsomething books, what In her
life.
Yeah, and 23 in one year washer record and I posted in my
community and I'm like, yep,that's, I'm not going to beat
that.
Unless they develop some sortof immortality, I'm not hitting

(13:34):
the 23, at least not solo I did.
I think I've released 19 or sowith my co-authors one year.
I did like one of them myself 23in a year.
Yeah, she wrote 23.
When was this?
I don't know.
I didn't look her up.
It's one of those things thatit could be total bullshit.
It's from the internet, butit's within the realm of
possibility, because I waswriting 10 or 12 a year when I

(13:57):
well sorry, I think my best yearI did nine myself and I did
that for three years or so andsome of my books were really
long, like Crusader.
I did nine or so that year.
It was 306,000 words.
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean that'ssix books right there, yeah, for
a normal person.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
That's what I would have broken it up into.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Part one, part two, part six.
In that same year I wroteSouthern Watch one and two.
It was like 50,000 or 60,000and 90,000, 92,000 words
respectively.
I mean, if you looked at it itwas like you could break up a
bunch of those into smallernovels and what most people
would consider to be a novel,and it'd be close to 23.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Do you ever wonder?
This is total tangent.
I don't know what I wasthinking, why this made me think
of it, but I was thinking wordcount and you were just
mentioning word count.
Have you ever thought about if,let's just say, publishing one
away, like it just disappearedand somebody was in charge of
finding you a new job, what doyou think they like?

(15:03):
You had no input, what do youthink they would have you do?

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Is Memelord an option ?
I don't think it pays much Shit.
Poster, I could run a viciousblog One where my job is
basically to make fun of peopleall day long, something like Ace
of Spades, that's really.
I mean, that's all I got.
I sold insurance and moreinvestments and mortgages, but I

(15:29):
wasn't particularly great at itand I sure didn't enjoy it.
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
I think what made me think of that was we were
hanging out with some people andsometimes I wonder what people
see when they look at us Likeyou don't really have a real job
.
You have, like you like theC-cargo pants and the t-shirt,
well, but you know, some peopleare like man, you've got the
life, and I won't deny that one.
I love my life, I really do.

(15:56):
But at the same time, like Iwonder what people think about
when they look at me like oh, hedoesn't qualify for anything
else, or whatever.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
And I know my friends at least.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
I hope they don't think that way.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
You know, probably family.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Family is like well, I remember when I don't know, I
just sit around all day andplays with words.
Yeah, anyone who's been to ourhouses would be like oh God,
these guys are way overpaid.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, yeah, you do what.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Are you sure you don't sell drugs on the side?
Oh yeah, I have this feelingyou're selling drugs.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
I have been asked that before in the past.
Really yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
I have.
No one is brassy enough to saythat to me, because it always
comes down to like oh, that'sinteresting, you know.
And they ask me how many booksI've written and I'm like 100
and they're like oh, thatexplains it.
Now I understand the pool withall that fancy stuff around it.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
And while you're playing video games in the
middle of the day, sometimes,yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Most people don't know about that.
I keep that real on the DL,yeah, but yes, there's a there's
.
It's always like when you go toa party or you meet someone and
they're like, oh, you're anauthor.
After they find that out,there's always like a sequence
of questions after that.
Totally, they're the verysimilar sort of ones like, oh
well, what do you write?
And I have the canned answer oh, I write fantasy novels.

(17:24):
I only make stuff.
I just make stuff up.
Yep, I say that too.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Make shit up.
I have your idea.
That's what I always hear.
I hate that one, yes, yeah.
I always say well, I'm kind offull of shit.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
So you know that goes on paper.
That's good.
If I'm being serious, I have anactual answer.
But most people don't want theserious answer.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
What are the other questions we get?
Now I'm thinking about it howmany books have you written?
When did you start?
Did you major in English incollege?
Yeah, that is a hard no for me.
That's a yes for me.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yeah, I always I was completely followed up with and
it didn't do me one damn better.
Good Right, it actuallyprobably put me off my career
path for several years.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, yeah, it's English classes in general
stopped me from reading for awhile.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, I did it to me too, that Gordon rule that
Florida had.
I mean 10,000 words of writingassignments per English class,
5,000 for every social studiesor history class.
What Gordon rule?
It's called the Gordon rule.
It's a scientific law, or itwas at the time when I was going
to college and yeah, that wasthe deal.
You had to write 10,000 wordsof papers writing assignment

(18:32):
papers, for every English classyou were in, and 5,000 for every
social studies or history class.
Really, that was so awful, itreally drummed the love of
writing out of me.
I didn't want to do any writingat all after that.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, I've got.
We did not have that inVirginia.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
I did a lot of history papers.
I wrote one about Gettysburg, Idid one on.
I forget what I did in mymilitary history class.
It's so long ago.
I just make shit up and thenforget about it.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
It's funny I say there was not a law in Virginia
and yet that's what I did,because I was a foreign affairs
major.
So same thing writing abouthistory and international
relations.
Man, I wrote so many papers,man, back then I didn't even
have a computer.
We had to go to a computer lab.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Was it Tom Clancy that observed I read one of his
books that foreign affairs isreally well named because it's
just countries fucking eachother constantly In one way or
another.
It's appropriate.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, well, it's funny because it's foreign
affairs and internationalrelations.
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
There you go, smacking together.
I'm saying that.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
It's funny you may be the only person in the last 20
years that has put that together, because usually inside I'm
giggling a little bit.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
You know, because we're word smests for a living,
I'm like hee, hee, heeinternational relations yeah.
I'm a dork.
International relations is whatyou wish had happened.
On that summer you spent abroad, right, and except there was no
abroad, I got food poisoning.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
You were abroad, but there was no abroad.
My nephew is in Europe forthree months right now.
Fucking devil.
He just up and decided byhimself he was just going to go.
I'm so envious, yeah, and it's,I mean, pretty cool, right,
you're, you know, early 20s, youjust go.
You know, he made a little bitof money and it's like these

(20:27):
dollars are burning a hole in mypocket.
Let's burn this.
Well, I think part of it was.
He was just he kind of needshis own little wake up, right,
like he's realized, look, thismight not be the trajectory that
I think I'm supposed to be on.
Yeah, so I'm going to go andthrow myself basically at the
mercy of Europe.
And it was pretty cool because,before you were, europe can be
pretty merciful to Americans.
So he said, you know, it'sfunny, he texted me the other

(20:49):
day, sent me some cool pictures.
I'm like, how's it been?
He's like it's been great.
There have been some challenges.
You know well, because you knowyou think about it.
A white boy, american, all byyourself, language barriers,
because he's going all over theplace, like all over I okay, so
I had always heard this.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
I don't remember if we discussed this or not, but,
like in Paris, I learned enoughof the language to get by and
the people were super nice.
Yeah, absolutely.
I had always heard that theFrench are really rude to
Americans, but like they werereally accommodating.
I was shocked and this was inthe midst of the strikes and
whatnot and I had a lady say I'mso sorry that you came to Paris
in this time, like I hope youenjoy the rest of your trip on

(21:30):
the subway.
Really, like well packed inthere, and it's so difficult
because there's so many trainsthat are canceled and people are
like shoving to get on.
I'm like this is this, is Parisman, this is something did I
tell you our story on the subway?

Speaker 2 (21:42):
No, what happened?
Paris, so we were, we weregoing somewhere I can't remember
where.
We were going to someneighborhood, and we're we, you
know, we're on like the thirdtrain to get there, and we're
sitting on the train and andeverybody gets off and oh yes,
you did a lady yeah well,there's one final lady, like she
gets off, mm-hmm.
And then I see her like, comearound and come back in.

(22:05):
And she and she explains us.
She goes hey, this train is nowout of service.
If you're trying to go to here,you need to go to this platform
.
And like she didn't need to dothat I don't know.
No, she just walked on her wayand when we had that happen a
couple times, which which kindof same thing totally shocked me
, because I'd heard allParisians are totally stuck up.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
No, not really, and funny, like my middle kid was
handed my wife's backpack Totake care of it while she was
doing something else and he leftit outside of cafe really.
And we were down the street andthis guy's like, hey, hey, like
ones after us 50 yards or so,catches it's like you left your
backpack back there and they'vegot it inside for you.

(22:44):
Did Alicia lose it?
She was not happy and that waslike and he that he lost a lot.
He, he is a brilliant littledude, but like he Forgets his
head if it's not attached to it.
We've got one of those he got.
So he spent 30 minutes InMontmartre shopping for like the
perfect one of this Parisianlike I don't know what you call

(23:06):
them the hats with like theRounded kind of billowy top to
it with a little short bill onit.
Okay, very European and thatlike Bill Cosby used to wear
okay, in his second show, Ithink where it's like you'd see,
if you saw it you'd be like, ohyeah, it's a, that's a European
style hat.
He finds the perfect one and wehave one picture of him with it
because he had it at the Louvreand Then he put it in his

(23:29):
sleeve and like walked aroundand like lost it in the Louvre
somewhere.
Gosh, and I mean four hoursthis kid had his hat and then it
was gone forever.
We're like we checked the lostand found.
We checked everyone.
They're like I'm sorry ithasn't been turned in and that's
the luck you know he lost it inthe in the clutch of people
getting up to Mona Lisa Yep.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, we've got one of those that it's, and it's
funny because I I don't think Iused to lose much growing up.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
My have high visibility of like anything that
I own.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
I'm super paranoid about me to like I always have a
place, like I always know thatmy wallet is in this pocket.
Yes, these are always in thispocket.
My phone is right here.
I do that, yeah, yeah, always.
Retention pat.
Yeah, totally same thing with,like, my backpack.
I know where everything is inthat backpack.
I don't put something in apocket that I usually put
somewhere else, but my son,who's 14.

(24:26):
Oh my gosh, he lost him.
He's not listening, so itdoesn't even matter.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, we were up in the middle of the summer day.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
I guess you know he had some of those that he bought
like hundred fifty dollar beats.
No, he left them somewhere andhe was like totally non plus
about it.
Like just like, oh, find themall, go back.
And I'm like we're not goingback.
Yeah, like it's funny, becauseI wanted to.
I don't know if you get thisway.
I've always had that urge tojust jump in and fix things for

(24:55):
my kids.
I am now to the point where I'mlike it's on you, dog.
Yeah, it's totally on you.
And so he went about threeweeks without headphones.
And it's funny because this isa son.
If it had happened to either ofmy other kids they would have
been devastated.
Yeah, him, he just lets it rollback.
He is so wired differently thanme when it comes and I keep
telling Katie, my wife, that isgonna serve him really well in

(25:17):
the future.
But as a teenager under my roof, that so gets to me.
It drives you nuts.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
And I love the boy, but it's like you know we could.
You can yell at him and he'sjust doing it yeah whatever.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Back to your nephew.
Like I I know I told you at thetime but like I was ready to
keep riding the rails aroundyour arm at our vacation.
Adrian says to me the other dayshe's like I let.
London trip was like the bestvacation we've ever taken.
So cool dude.
She's like I loved all ourtrips, but that was amazing.
I'm like, yeah, that was, and Iwas ready to keep it going.
Like I told you At the time,I'm like I'm not ready to come

(25:52):
back.
I'm not ready to start waitingagain, I want to just and Alicia
told me she's like if youreally want to stay, you can
stay.
I'll take the kids back, andI'm like I should have taken you
up on that.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
But you know what?
But like that makes me happy,right, because I know I know
both of us.
I know I have this sometimes,even though I'm excited to go on
a trip, there's also anxietybuilt in, right, like for me.
Some of the biggest anxieties istransfers, like from the
airport to a hotel you know likefor me that's always getting
from point A to point B, becauseI I have very good sense of

(26:24):
direction.
I don't like getting lost, so Iwant to know where we're going,
yeah, and so for me I'm alwayskind of thinking ahead on that.
But to be able to just kind ofgo whatever, like go wherever we
want and that was that was whenwe were in Paris not having a
quote-unquote plan was reallynice, because you could just
kind of wander my wife wouldmurder us all if we did that.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
in fact, we got to Paris and the first afternoon
she's like okay, so what are wedoing?
Because I she left the tripplanning to me and I'm like here
are the different options and Ihad like ten things where I
like researched it out and she'slike you didn't buy the tickets
for, you didn't plan, what didyou do?
And so, like we had to spendthe first afternoon locking down
every single thing and I'm like, seriously, I like just going

(27:06):
with the flow.
Yeah, oh, this is sold out,that's okay, I don't mind, we'll
go do something else.
I can't make it to the top ofthe Arc de Triomphe because
there's a strike.
Okay, that's fine, let's walkdown the Champs.
Eilat's a never mind, there'stoo many people here getting the
latest subway.
Let's go over to this place.
Um, and I love that style ofthing.
That's how I've always traveledin Europe.
Yeah, and it's benefited meimmensely, because it's like

(27:28):
I'll go do a couple of things inthe morning, I'll come back,
I'll read for a little while andthen, if I feel like it, I'll
go out again in the evening and,especially with Paris, like
You're gonna go out in theevening because the restaurants
are closed until about 7 o'clockand it's awesome at night.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
It is pretty cool.
I mean I will say that I Neverfelt unsafe no, not in the
neighborhoods.
I was, no, not in the mainareas and it was Beautiful.
I mean that you know, like we'dgo down streets and they'd have
like light strung up, like Iknow there are sketchy, sketchy
area.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
Sure, absolutely, absolutely.
But yeah, we didn't go intothose it's.
It was a little uncomfortableat times because it was like
we're walking around the EiffelTower and it felt abandoned
really, because they had somebarricades up and they had done
some stuff.
Oh yeah, you know, I felt alittle uncomfortable there
because I like, there's just notthat many people around.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah, but there was one train station that was not.
You're like, this is in fact, Itell you like in the tourist
guides, like stay away from this.
Yeah, we had to go there and Ithink it was when Katie and I
went just the two of us one time.
Yeah, we had to get from pointA to point B and there was the
only way to go.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, that's what I had.
Funny, because someone had hadposted on X, which is, you know,
formerly Twitter, a Map of theDC subway system.
That I saved because it was,like someone, helpfully written
ghetto, ghetto, like a bunch ofthe stops, to just let you know,
maybe don't go there.

(28:55):
Don't go there, capital Hilltotally ghetto.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
I have not been, I've not been on the DC Metro in
like 30 years.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
And see, I was planning to ride the DC Metro
for our trip this summer that wehad to cancel because I had
heard DC has a Massivecarjacking problem right now.
Really, yeah, a lot of, and Ihad this written down to talk
about.
Like, the murder rates in a lotof US Cities right now are
ticking down for 2023, over 2022.
Dc it's up, hmm, san Franciscoit's up and Memphis it's up, so

(29:25):
like three cities.
Everybody else is like wait.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
What is the second one?
You said San.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
Francisco, memphis, dc.
San Francisco, yeah, yeah, inSan Francisco, I think is still
not terribly bad.
It has other mayhem problemsthat you wouldn't care for, like
the Robber, the mass robberiesand whatnot.
The complete lack of lawenforcement, like I thought we
did away with the Wild West, butapparently it's wilder and
westerner than ever out there.
But yeah, the the, the issuesthere are are replete and

(29:56):
serious and in DC, so it's stillnot a very safe place to go
outside of certain areas.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah, I mean, if you stay like around, you know the
mall, yeah, it's.
I mean, there's securityeverywhere and there's cameras
everywhere, on, on the mallitself.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
There's a lot of carjacking going on in DC,
though it's kind of it's kind ofscary, like I wouldn't drive in
DC.
Well, that's the thing is likeokay.
So what do you do?
You uber your way around.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
We ubered a little bit, we walked a lot.
Yeah, we walked a ton and westayed.
You know, we were a coupleblocks kind of off the mall,
yeah, so we could just kind ofgo now.
We did get a rental car.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
But we're gonna stay in northern Virginia and the
idea was to, like you know, takethe metro in there yeah.
No, that'd be a good way to doit yeah.
And because if you kind of stayin the national mall area for
like walking around and whatnot,then you're good.
But I mean our original planwas to go in July.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Tail of July.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Like July, 28, 29th, yeah, so then we talked about
fall break.
But yeah, we're not gonna dothat now, we're gonna.
That's what we did last fallbreak.
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Maybe we'll spring, I did not love the place we
stayed.
It was misadvertised and and itwas funny because I you know, I
I really I don't really leavereviews and Katie definitely
doesn't but she left one.
She's like look, this was, thiswas not to the best place, it
was like right on the edge ofChinatown and it was like it was

(31:20):
actually attached.
It was this complex that therewas a Walmart.
I like like an urban Walmart,oh yeah, in the small footprint
building.
But outside that there was somesketch.
I mean I saw multiple drugdeals go on outside, outside,
outside the the condo complex,and I think what it was was it
was a rehab building that wasnow like not like I would say

(31:43):
not maybe mid tier type stufflike product, but I mean it was
still right on the fringe andand and it's funny, what do they
call that?
A level, b level, c level?
I think it was probably, maybe,maybe B, yeah, something like
that.
But anyway, like it was fine.
But you know you hold on to thekids a little bit tighter and

(32:06):
you know you watch that weirdothat's, you know, scratching his
head and it's tough because Ithere's so many places I want to
go in the US and some of themare like you almost.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
I mean I was listening to a podcast the other
day with my history favoritehistory guys.
The rest is history.
One of my favorite authors, tomHolland, and he's talking about
growing up in I don't knowsmall town ish, mid sized
townish England in the 1970s.
He's talking about thereputation New York City had at
the time, like in the in theearly 60s, late 50s, like New

(32:40):
York had a reputation as thisgleaming madman.
You know metropolis well, youknow the capital of finance in
the in the world.
Now that London has seated thetitle and by the 70s it had
become in the title of theirpodcast is Fear City.
Yeah, and they talk about theblackout of 1977 and how it
erupted into riots and inlooting immediately, how it was

(33:00):
just a toilet bowl and how it.
You know they didn't talk abouthow it came back, but they
talked about how it kind oftrended down.
And he was like I had thedistinct impression and he said
it's just wonderful Britishaccent the distinct impression
that if I were to travel to NewYork City as a child I would be
shot immediately.
I love Tom Holland.

(33:23):
He's so great.
Not the actor, tom Holland isgreat to, but the podcast host
and author, tom Holland, I did adouble take when you said that,
yeah, his name is Tom Holland.
He's great, he's, he's Iactually thought about.
He has a book out now inEngland called Pax, which is the
third of his trilogy on Romanhistory, and I've loved the
first two, rubicon and dynasty.
Dynasty, as I suppose I wouldsay.

(33:44):
And what are they?
Just histories of Rome, yeah,so the first one is leading up
to Julius Caesar taking over andhis death and then Augustus's
rise, and so it's the period oftransition from Republic to
Empire.
And then the second one,dynasty, or dynasty, is the

(34:05):
first five emperors followingAugustus, which are the, the
there's a name for them, butthey're the, the heirs of Caesar
, basically the, that thatparticular branch of family,
julian, the Julian emperors,which the last of them, nero,
dies in 8067, 6869 somewhere inthere, and he's terrible by then

(34:30):
.
It's, you know, corrupt,authoritarian.
Yep, nero fiddles while Romeburns, and so, anyway, this one
picks up and it's called Pax.
It's about Pax Romano.
Yeah, pick up the first take,give it a read.
Holland engages with the subject.
He's got a witty pin, I wouldsay.
His command of it is all veryinteresting.
The third book comes out inAmerica in September.

(34:51):
It's been out in Britain forlike two months.
I thought about saying to oneof my, you know, putting an
announcement on Facebook to myBritish fans All right, if one
of you clowns wants to buy theBritish edition of Pax and send
it to me in America, I willcross over and send a signed
copy of my own book in exchange,or whatever.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
But, I forget it.
I'll just wait, pay a $20 extrafee just to get it.
Man, I think I think Imentioned the last time, or
maybe I've just been sending youtext.
I have been getting my booksfrom eight books.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
No, I didn't know.
You didn't know, you didn'thave to, are you oh?
My gosh and of course like Ilistened to us talking about it,
but I heard an update.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
There are days that I got like six books in the
mailbox I'm like yeah, I was sohappy.
And now now it's like I've.
So I went back and I startedwith.
Well, first I went back becauseyou gave me permission to go
back through my audio books.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
And I picked out a couple.
I know, I know, but it's sofunny, you know.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
I need to like the blessing, but then I went back.
W E B Griffin is one of myfavorites, so I went back to you
, sent me a picture.
Yeah yeah, I think I did, yeah,and so now I'm building that
collection because when I firstlistened I actually listened to
those when I was still in theMarine Corps I would go to the,
to the base library, and I wouldtake out the CDs, the books on

(36:09):
CD, oh yeah, and I would listen.
I had like an hour commute eachway, so I would just burn
through those books, yeah, and,and I loved them absolutely.
And then I started reading themand so I've loved them forever
and I'm hoping one day that mykids will want to read them.
Yeah, I don't know, we'll see.
But the other one, I matterthey look good on your shelves,
yeah.
The other one, too, was the Ithink I sent you a picture of

(36:31):
this was the book the Last Tribe, which is one of my favorite
post apocalyptic book.
You probably wouldn't like itbecause it's not.
It's probably not gory enough,but it is.
It is a.
It's really more of a storyabout family and survival and it
was written by Brad manual,who's a, an indie author.
Now, this is what you sent methe yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Griffin I couldn't see what's behind the WB.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Griffin.
So he wrote this book back in,I think, 2012.
And he had back before.
Scott Brick was huge, you know,doing audio books.
Narrow, yeah, scott Brick did.
That's how I found it and Iremember back in the day I
actually reached out to theauthor and I was like, hey,
thank you so much.
And he answered me back and wehad a little conversation.
I wish I could go buy therights to that book now I don't.

(37:16):
I don't think he's writinganymore kind of like we've
talked about.
He's probably gonna got a job,but it's, it's always reading it
again.
And it's, you know, 650 pagesand and that was one of the ones
I got from eight books and youwould appreciate this it's very
much the indie version, so it'slike it's not.
It doesn't.
I don't even think it has acopyright page, whoa, yeah.

(37:37):
So it's like, oh, it's so, it'sa super self published.
Oh man, it's great.
It's great.
You know it's got some typos inthere and like some of the
first words, but I don't care,I've just, I've really been
enjoying this, john.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Grish himself published a time to kill.
I think he did yeah.
It's like that's the selfpublishing dream, because it's
like back no, before we started,like no one had a story like
that, like John Grisham and fiveother people in the history of
thousands of other selfpublished people.
It's like if you self published, your actual ability to publish
was dead forever.
Yeah, and he Andrews talkedabout that actually because he

(38:09):
self published one of his firstbooks.
Yeah, and he was talking aboutyou know, we sold 100,000 copies
and then we went back topublishers and we're like this
is how many we sold.
And they're like wow, well, Ithink you've probably exhausted
your demand at this point.
So you know, of course we don'twant it now, and he keeps going
through it.
And at 200,000, we went backagain and they're like we were
wrong on that, but you'vedefinitely sold all you can sell

(38:30):
now, it's like.
And at 400,000, we didn't evenbother to go back again.
And 600,000, we sold all youcan sell now.
And it's like and it's like andit's like and it's like and
it's like and it's like and it'slike and it's like and it's
like and it's like and it's likeand it's 100,000 later.
I mean, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
I he.
They had publishing deals.
Andy Andrews did, but they didthe majority of that work
themselves.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
No, this was his first book, which was like, I
think it's one where he like gotletters from celebrities about
them going through their worsttrials and tribulations.
Yeah, okay, and so this is whatis like the first thing he did
before he hit big with thenoticer.
No, the noticer was like fourthor fifth in line.
The first one was the precursorto the seven decisions, the

(39:08):
traveler's gift.
That was the big one that likeblew him up.
At least I think that's right.
Maybe he had others before thatthat were, that were big
traditionally See.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
now, now the indie author who went big is calling
Hoover.
Yeah, I mean, you can't turnaround and not see one of her
books.
Her books are everywhere.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
I remember when she hit it big, like I think in 2013
, 2014, and she was really likewhen she first hit it big in
like as an indie.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, I didn't know her back then.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
I've never met her or anything, but I remember we saw
her like shoot up the charts.
Yeah, not, nothing like this.
I don't remember what it wascalled, like breathless or
something like I can't rememberwhat it was.
Yeah, you're right, it's.
She's in every bookstore nowand every like Walmart
everywhere has her own stacks.
Yeah amazing.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
I can't be anything but happy for somebody like that
Because from everything I'veheard, she's done it the right
way, like she goes out of a wayshe's always taken care of
readers.
She, she has a really sadbackground story.
Oh no, just, you know, came upjust the the rough way and
that's what feeds a lot of herstories.
I've read a couple of her booksjust because I was curious.

(40:14):
My daughter, I think, is readevery single one of them.
Oh my goodness, teenage girlslove her books.
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
I've seen teenage girls reading her books.
I'm trying to remember if I,because there were like a few
indie authors of that sort ofstripe that came up around the
same time, like HM Ward, but shewas more like the raw new adult
kind of stuff, people that Ihad like kind of a passing
familiarity with, but that's sofar out of my genre that I

(40:41):
didn't ever really talk withthem, I guess, or at least only
in passing maybe those romanceladies definitely knew what they
were doing.
Romance and girl.
I don't know what you call that, like chick lit kind of, or I
don't know Kind of yeah, almostlike coming of age, but not I've

(41:01):
decided if this next seriesdoesn't take off, I'm going to
write a Western A.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Western.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
What?
Where'd that come from?
I don't know.
I was thinking I was talking toBrian Shea a while back and
he's like Western's like are anunderserved market and you know,
you know you and I talked aboutit forever.
I was like I should write athriller.
It's such a big market, there'sso many people who read
thrillers and I like actuallysettled down to do it and I'm
like I don't think I can write athriller, like I just don't

(41:31):
have any interest in actuallywriting the type of thriller
that I think would sell and Idon't have the energy to write
the type of thriller I wouldwant to write, which is a Tom
Clancy style thriller, becausethose are.
It requires exhaustive detail,so heavy, and it's really hard
to get that right where it'slike you balance the detail and
the readability, yep, um, and soI just don't.
I mean, maybe I'll try it atsome point.

(41:52):
I've sort of have.
I would say my book hero is asclose as I'll ever get to a Tom
Clancy South Riller, um, andit's still a lot faster paced.
But I looked at it and I'm likeI was watching the quick and
the dead the other night and Ihad an idea for a Western and
I'm like you know what Westernis surprisingly not that far off
of a traditional fantasy interms of its themes and it's

(42:14):
plotting and whatnot.
You know it eliminates magic,obviously, unless you're writing
a really weird Western.
But the you know hero comes totown and has to solve the
tyranny problem that this town'sfolk are dealing with is like a
pretty common plot.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
I actually really like that idea because it takes
technology out of it.
Yes, that that's.
Have you run into that at all?
I feel like, especially becauseI'm, you know, we're both
writing modern day, Um, you know, now cameras are everywhere, so
it's not like you can sneakaround many places, Like part of
me wants to just go back intime and write stuff back in

(42:51):
time.
The only thing I'm scared of ispeople tearing apart Well,
that's not what it was back then, or whatever you know, like up
yours.
Yeah, I know, Um, but somebodywho writes kind of Western is
like I feel like there's a thatWestern vibe to it.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Is Jeff Corson, our friend, but our friend, Well
it's it's a little bit more outin the country, kind of yeah,
well, it's.
It's funny because, like, uh,the girl who ran away, the new
series, it takes place in a 2012, 2013.
So smartphones it's in ruralArizona.
Smartphones aren't ubiquitouslike they are now.
They mentioned in the thinglike, oh, they just put a cell

(43:26):
phone tower up on the thing.
Maybe I should get you a cellphone to the main character,
who's a 17 year old girl.
Like trying to imagine a modernbook where a 17 year old girl
doesn't already have a cellphone and that was conscious
choice for me and I suspect oneof my beta readers pointed out
is like that might be kind ofjarring for people if you don't
specify that it takes placeearlier, and so I might add a

(43:49):
note that it takes place in 2013or whatever.
Um, just to like set that thatexpectation early so that
they're not like man, this isreally dated stuff, stuff.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
So are you going to go back and read anybody's
Westerns?

Speaker 1 (44:05):
No, I didn't do that for fantasy, I won't do that for
this.
I mean, whatever I, I loveWestern movies and so I mean,
you know, at the risk of makingan asset out of myself in the
Western genre, I'm just going toput what I put out there and if
people like it, great, I'llwrite more, and if not, that's
fine.
I've got a story I want to telland we'll see what when I get

(44:25):
around to it.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
I gotta say you kind of made me a little excited with
this now.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Kind of thinking about it.
That's what Kelly and Lewis andShannon said.
They're like the way you kindof talk and the way you plot I
should that she's like.
Kelly especially was like Ithink you'd probably do pretty
well with Western.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Well, and you do know , those are usually shorter too,
yeah, like 60 to 75,000 wordsWell, even shorter.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
I'm saying like, oh yeah, I'm not going shorter than
that.
I can't put together a plot.
I mean I can, but it's not.
I don't want to do that.
I got a slightly more epicstory in my.
60 to 75,000 words is likethree to four weeks.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Yeah, that's not a bad book.
Yeah, but I'm just saying,traditionally a lot of those
have been, you know, becausethey were what do they call like
dice store books?

Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah but I mean, like Crossfire Trail and things like
that are typically longer.
I think, the Louis Lamour whois the gold standard of Westerns
.
I mean, he had some prettythick fricking books, Did he
really?
I think so, I think.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
I've only seen his shorter stuff.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I think like.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
I wrote his memoirs Really interesting.
Yeah, yeah, just is.
I mean, he was basically a hobofor a while, like he had some
crazy stories on.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
There's a lot of authors who have that.
Like I was reading.
Cormac McCarthy died, I think acouple, three weeks ago and
people were talking, storytelling stories about him.
Like his first wife was like,yeah, we were basically homeless
and living in a barn becausethis lazy f***er wouldn't get a
job.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Stupid writers.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Well, and it was funny, yeah, they were living in
a barn outside Knoxville,tennessee, and I think I think
that's right and people would belike offering him a thousand
dollars to come speak and he'slike, no, I'm not going to do
that.
He's so lazy, lazier, sociallyintroverted.
I mean, oh, yeah, yeah, and Iwill just say that if you know
people offer me money to comespeak, I'll probably show up.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
Depends on how far you have to drive or fly Right
Exactly.
Oh my gosh, oh Westerns.
Now you got me thinking aboutit, man.
Because that that simplifies somany things.
It does so many things that I'malways worried about, whether
it's it's cameras or detectiontechnology, because I always
have to think about, because I Idon't like glossing over that

(46:31):
stuff.
So it's either you know thedefeated or you got a power
grid's taken out, so you knoweverything goes down anyway, or
mask yourselves, or yeah, I meanthere's all sorts of ways
around it, and I usually dothink of ways around it.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
Some of them involve superpowers, because that's what
my thrillers involved.
That's a magic wand right there.
That is a magic wand.
But I mean, some of it is justbeing smart, because it's not
like people don't get away withcrimes.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Sure, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
And it's not like it's hard to take out a
transformer station.
You know, it's actuallyshockingly easy.
I've been told by multiplegovernment reports.
So but if you're.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
If you're in the Wild West, you don't have to worry
about that.
You don't.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
You just got to make sure you're skulking with your
mask up, so how?

Speaker 2 (47:14):
So you're you've been a fan-ish of that genre.
I love that genre of movies.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
I don't read that genre of books.
It's the same thing for fantasy.
Like I was a huge Lord of theRings fan, I read the Hobbit and
the Lord of the Rings and Iloved it in college and.
But I loved like the videogames more.
So when I started writingDefender, I wasn't like, oh, let
me go read a bunch of fantasynovels.
I didn't read any BrandonSanderson until after I'd
written three or four books inthe Sanctuary series.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
So how are you going to attack the Western side?
Then I'm just curious as towhat process you're going to go
with.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Oh, I mean, I'm just going to plot out what I want to
do with it.
I've got a basic outline in myhead already.
It kind of came to me the othernight of like well, what if I
did this and then this and thenthis and then this, and then you
know, the basic character arcare the main character and it's
probably pretty basic.
It's like a fundamentals, meatand potatoes kind of story.
It's not going to likerevolutionize the genre or

(48:08):
anything and you know I'll justwrite it when I get around to it
, after I finish Southern watchand, you know, get a couple more
books in the new series out.
See how that one does.
Man, now you totally got methinking.
Ryan Shea put this.
Good, I'm glad.
No I remember when he wastalking about this mindworm in
my brain because he's likethere's this one guy and he's

(48:28):
got this terrible cover and he'sselling his book and it's like
ranked super high.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
He showed it to me too, and I can't remember what
the guy's name.
Every once in a while it popsback in my feet.
I'm like this is the guy Sheawas talking about.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
Yes, yes, and it was funny because he's like, he's
like it's not even that great,it's like there's just not that
much good selection in theWestern genre, oh my gosh, did
you just come up with anepiphany here, or what?
For me it's like I'll putsomething out there For me.
I always kind of wanted towrite something in every genre.

(49:00):
Yeah, Like I even wanted towrite a romance at one point.
Just try it because there aregenre conventions and whatnot,
and I'm not sure I have that inme anymore.
I think book 52 of Girl in theBox might be the closest I would
get to writing an actualromance.
But at one point I was like Iwant to play with every genre
and just see how it goes,because that's like.
Isaac Asimov was one of myfavorite authors growing up.
He had a book in, I think, atone point and this was kind of a

(49:23):
flex for him, but he would putin his biography that he had a
book in every single area of thewhat's the card catalog system
named Dewey Decimal System.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
The Dewey Decimal System Really.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
Every section of the Dewey Decimal System.
How many sections were thereback then?
God only knows.
I mean, I'm sure Isaac Asimovknew, but also God.
That's interesting.
Yeah, I did not know that abouthim.
Yeah, it's in his biography hetaught or his whatever you know
the blurb about his life.
He bragged at one point that hehad he had actually a really

(49:57):
clever about the author page ina lot of ways Like one of the
things he used to say, becausehe was writing during the height
of the communist versuscapitalists, america versus
Soviet Union thing.
He's like Isaac Asimov was bornin the Soviet Union, a fact
that he immediately rectified bystowing away in someone's
luggage and being exported toAmerica.
It's like that's a reallyclever way to overcome the you

(50:21):
know people yelling aboutcommunism.
Oh my God that's pretty funny.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Oh, look at the time.
Well, should we wrap it up?
I suppose we should.
All right, brother, until nexttime.
I'm going to go buy some moreeight books.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Buy more books.
I love you eight books.