September 29, 2023 • 35 mins
Chatting about rising chaos, fantasy football drafts, things that bring the TSA down on you, the radicals of the sixties, and how Robert is allergic to his own face.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right, and we're here.
We are here.
We are here.
It's been.
When was the last time we gottogether?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Two weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Was it really?
Yeah, I was out of town.
I was out of town last week,ever.
I thought it was okay.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Yeah, I know it does.
Well, I think you and I we weretalking about it beforehand.
There's We've been a littlebusy.
Mucho chaos, yeah yeah, whatwas going on with you?
Oh, just get stuff crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
No, so yeah, it was.
I had a Dentist appointmentthis week.
A friend came in out of nowhere.
I've rearranged my office.
Yeah, I didn't know if you sawthat.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I like it.
I get to stare at books nowthat shelf collapsed.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh, right after I got everything fixed, everything in
place.
I moved a, moved a bookshelf, Iassembled a new bookshelf, I
moved three whiteboards todifferent locations, moved every
book in the place which is likethere, like 600 books in here,
and as soon as I got that oneall lined up and perfect, the
shelf collapsed at the top andcollapsed down all the way
through.
(00:55):
So that is a that one.
We ordered another replacementto To fit the current well done.
Well done.
So that was part of this week.
Monday was a holiday and Idon't know how you feel about
holidays.
I used to hate him because Ilike to work a lot and now I
love them, but Monday holidaysput my whole week behind.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Oh, dude, it totally put me behind this week.
Yeah, I've been playingcatch-up since Tuesday, and it's
not that I didn't have a goodtime on Monday.
No I do you know what?
What happened, though, was atthe end of the day.
I started not dreading the nextday, but I'm like, oh geez, I
have so many things because Iwas gone on the weekend, because
I usually dabble on theweekends and get get some things
(01:35):
done, so during you know, inthe beginning of the week, I'm
ready to rock totally.
Yeah, I was totally behind thisweek.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I'd see fantasy football drafts this weekend,
which I'm not even a footballguy, but like I'm friends with
people who are football peopleand I just love them, so I'm
like you know, this is fun,let's oh, it's fun, I'm gonna
leave with my boys, my sons isthat new, or have you always
done that?
That's.
This is the second year We'vedone that one and then I've been
in a league with my neighborslike Lorenz and, and Prestigard
(01:59):
runs it friends of podcast, andthat's been years and it's just
a blast like trash talking withthose guys, yeah, really fun and
the drafts always good.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
All mine went to funk the same year Did you really
like three leads and they allwent, they all disappeared.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Um, yeah, I was.
I was hoping to finish a firstdraft this week, but as I'm like
, proceeding along, I had torevise my word count down.
I was gonna do 20,000 wordsagain.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
This week working on right now girl in the box 56.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Okay, I'll finish it next week.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm atthe last Act turn right now.
I've written some stuff ahead.
I have a pretty good idea ofwhat's going on.
It's just it's been all overthe place.
Oh, and I found out I'mallergic to my own face.
What does that mean?
So I went to the dermatologistbecause I've had this rash on my
forehead where it's kind oflike red and it's been annoying
(02:48):
and it Kind of goes in and out.
Sometimes this worse, sometimesis better, and it turns out
that I am allergic.
This section of my skin isallergic to the mites that are
in the skin.
What, yes, I I'm like I justthought it was some sort of
contact dermatitis.
So I like changed soaps,changed shampoos, changed sleep
masks, and it's still just kindof red, itchy and annoying.
(03:08):
She takes one look at it.
She likes scrape some stuff offof it and goes and puts it on
her microscope.
She's like you are allergic tothe mites in your skin.
She's like it's okay, you'renot lousy, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Everyone has these mites?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
It's just this particular patch.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I'm just a guy in Asheville, wasn't it?
It was a guy in Asheville.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I wish this is pretty pretty.
What do you call it?
It precedes that, but I waslike I'm just gonna say I'm
allergic to my own face.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
What do you?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
do about that?
You have a cream, yes, itinvolves an ivermectin
ivermectin, yes, which is aNobel Prize winning Nobel Prize
for medicine, winning Dwarmer oh, my other things.
Oh right, it basically killsthe Whatever.
And will it kill your ringwormtoo?
Well, let's hope so.
I think you have to take itinternally in order to kill
ringworm.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Mmm, delicious.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's good stuff.
So, anyway, that was my chaosallergic to your own face.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I thought you were gonna say like I keep looking in
the mirror and cringing orsomething.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, I do but for different reasons.
But all that happened this weekit was just like one thing
after another where it's like apoint meant this and none of it
was.
I wrote it up in my my mightynetworks community yesterday
because I've just kind of beenhalf laughing this week or it's
like I cannot Get ahead.
Like my buddy calls me upliterally yesterday he's I
haven't seen him but like twicein the last seven years, since I
(04:33):
love Minnesota, he's like hey,I'm in Nashville for like 24
hours and I got a meeting thisafternoon in a town called
Franklin I don't know if you'veheard of it.
It's like one of the suburbslike Jacket.
Come on over and we had a greattime and it's all been, you
know, good and fun.
But it's like when you'retrying to get a regimented,
(04:54):
ordered schedule executed, themore chaos, the harder it is to
like.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I think that's my biggest stressor these days.
Yeah, like, I'm typicallyPretty okay with having tasks
throughout the day.
Like you know, I take my kidsto school, and all that although
next week my oldest startsdriving.
Oh yeah, like for real drivingwhich will be which, which will
be good for her, good for sheand my son.
But I don't know I'm gonna missit.
(05:20):
Yeah, cuz I kind of I like itthat's why I do it, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Put a governor on the car where it's like you cannot
go faster than 30 miles an hour.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Well, well, she, she has a Tesla, so we can see
exactly what's going on, oh,really.
Yeah, and you can like, shecan't go over a certain certain
speed limit, and I mean it's not.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
You know, speed limit is 60 and I'm going 60 in a 20
mile an hour zone now.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
No, but it's.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I mean, she's a, she's a safe driver, she's,
she's good and hey man, we wereall safe drivers when we were
driving with our parents.
It was when me and my buddy gotout on our own that we would
find out that his car could go125 miles an hour.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
That's the thing is she's got.
She's one of those that she hasskin in the game, yeah, and she
is very particular about herstuff Mm-hmm, about her stuff
getting messed up.
So I have a feeling that shewill take better care of her car
than I would.
Yeah, she's just that's howshe's wired.
Now number two I have no ideaif he's ever gonna have a car
(06:14):
under our house.
I, I don't even know, I don'tknow.
But yeah, you know.
Going back to like, it's funnywhen these random tasks pop up
in my week, right, because Ihave I in my head.
It's like I know what my weeklooks like.
And then it's like, oh, I gottatake the dog, like I gotta take
my dog.
I took my dog in last week.
Yep, she has like a little masson her tail that has to be
(06:36):
removed.
And, of course, nowadays I'msorry to all you animal lovers
out there you can spend afortune on dogs.
Yes, but an animal to me isstill an animal.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, okay and she's like you know, we can get this
thing taken off.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
We can send it off for path pathology and do all
this stuff.
And and I look at the woman,I'm like I wasn't mean.
I was like, look, just so youknow, we don't go to extremes
with our pets.
So I just want to put that outthere, like we'll get the thing
cut off and give her anesthesiawhile all that.
But I'm not having all thissent off and because, like what
(07:10):
if you do get it back and it iscancer?
So what am I gonna do?
Send her off or chemo orwhatever?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Like no, I was just talking to a guy about that the
other day because he was tellingme that he's he takes that same
approach.
He's like we love our dog, butyou, you can spend tens of
thousands of dollars on dogchemo.
Yeah, and I've seen it?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, I've seen it.
I mean, I, you know, I don'tthink my brother and sister in
law listened to this, but theyhad bulldogs.
Yeah, and bulldogs haveproblems, man, cause they're
super inbred or whatever.
Yeah, and you talk about likelike take taking them to
Knoxville for a special surgeryon the shoulder and like I don't
know how much that dog wasworth at the end of the day.
(07:51):
Um, I, I just I don't know, itwas just funny.
The other day.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
A hundred thousand dollar dog by the time they were
.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
No, I'm just like yes , do I love my dog?
Yes, but the dog, the dog inthe hierarchy of our house, is
not the equal to human beings.
And it's funny because nowadaysa lot of people have the
opposite feeling.
Absolutely Like I remember Ihave have you.
Do you have animals in yourbooks at all?
Yeah, like pets and yes.
Have you killed one or have.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
No, I know better than that.
Yeah, yeah, I, we there was aclose call with a very popular
character who happens to be adog, and um, I got some emails
after that I don't even doanything to like the Sienna has
dogs in Girl in the Box and Ilike I don't even there's never
a threat to them, cause I'm likeI know what these dog people
(08:39):
are like and I don't need thatkind of hate mail.
I've killed every kind of closeto her character under the sun.
And people don't blink.
No, they do, they get mad, butlike it would be nothing akin to
I know what would happen if Ikill a dog.
I mean, it's just pet peopleare.
They love their pets, they loveother people's pets.
I, you know that's one of thosethings where it's like do I
(09:01):
want to stir emotions?
Yes, do I want to beat ahornet's nest with a stick until
they all explode out and stingme to death?
No, I don't really want that.
That's pet people.
Pet people are hornets.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
All right so so let's stir the pot a little bit.
Yeah, all right, I have aquestion for you.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
And plus non-pet people if I killed the pet, are
going to be like oh, that's ashame and move on.
So it doesn't produce theemotional reaction.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
No, it really doesn't .
It really doesn't.
Animals in stores how do youfeel about that?
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I mean Petco, they're fine If and if they're really
well trained, I mean I don'thave a huge issue with it.
Like there was a case I wascoming back from Italy into the
Minneapolis airport and thisgirl had her dog and a little
thing under the seat.
It was the most annoyingfucking dog on the face of the
planet.
It crapped in the Minneapolisairport line.
She headed out and was likewalking it along and it just
took a big dump in the middle ofthe thing.
(09:49):
One of the things I've neverbeen a fan of the TSA.
But this TSA agent who wasthere like reamed her a new
asshole and made her clean it up.
It was the most I was like oh,yes, yes, this finally the TSA
has done something worthwhile,cause they don't catch
terrorists, but they, you know,but they get poop.
They get the teenage girl whobrought her stupid dog to take a
(10:11):
crap on the middle of theairport floor while I'm waiting
in line to pass customs.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I had an interesting experience at Reagan national
this past weekend, so I got anearlier flight to come home.
Oh, because, long story short,my wife tore her hamstring no
Four, which so I was.
I was with my brothers.
No sale, sell signal.
We're in the middle of nowhere,like you have to drive 30
minutes to get sell signalanywhere.
(10:36):
So as soon as I hit sell rangeagain, I get this text hey, by
the way, you know I'm fine but Itore my hands string.
So I'm like, of course my brainjust goes on overdrive at that
point and I'm like gotta get anew flight and it was fine, but
I get to the airport how?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
do?
I want to know how she tore herhamstring.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Like running injury or playing pickleball.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I thought pickleball was supposed to be low in that.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Well it is, but some, some.
She said it was like a freakishthing, Like her foot, her right
foot slipped out of her shoe.
Oh, oh.
And so when she went to, likeyou know, she was like reaching
and as it slipped out, thenbasically she did the splits.
Oh no, unintentionally.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, that's what happened.
It wasn't like she didn't fallthere's anything like that.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
It was just, it was a complete overextension.
So she's doing better now,anyway.
So I'm at the airport and I goto my gate, I'm early and
there's like seven TSA agents atthe gate.
So you know, I'm a curiousfella.
So I just kind of stand, I'mlike watching and they're like
looking around and I just I'mlike what are they looking for?
(11:42):
What are they looking for?
And they, you know, sometimesthey'll pull out a cell phone
and they'll look at it, whatever.
And then I see this gentlemanget up and he has a ball cap on
and he looks like a fit guy, youknow, trim and probably six
foot three, and he goes to thegate agent, then goes back to
his seat, goes to the gate agentagain and and I'm like what's
(12:03):
going on here, and then said mangoes and get his two friends
who are, you know, athleticlooking fellas, and one of them
actually has a bag that says,like you know, united US track
and field team or something likethat, like black guy.
So it's like two white guys anda black guy, one guy's
obviously older than the othertwo, and the plane, the plane
(12:24):
before us, the plane that comesin, that we're going to take is
debarking like people aregetting off.
These three guys I've neverseen this walk straight onto the
plane.
Nobody says anything, just gostraight on.
It must be Marshall's orsomething.
So when I get on the plane I'mlike they're sure enough,
they're, you know they'resitting there.
Yeah, I'm going.
What is going on?
Do these two things together?
So of course, I go over and Istand next to the TSA agents and
(12:48):
I'm like see if I can hearanything.
Well, I think what it was.
I saw the picture on the oneTSA agents phone.
Yeah, I think it was a pictureof a male and a child.
I think a child had beenkidnapped.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
So that's what they were like.
So they actually announced andI've never seen this either they
announced that hey, before youget on the flight, we're going
to have one more TSA check.
Please have your ID out andyour boarding pass.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
And of course they didn't give me two looks at all,
yeah, and, but it was just, itwas bizarre.
That's interesting.
I love that stuff.
Yeah, I mean not for the kid,but I'm just like it's a story.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Like I want to know, like what's going on.
I really want to go over tosomebody.
I want to go up to the dudesthat were on the plane.
Go, hey, what are you guysdoing?
What's going on?
I almost because two guys weresitting together and then one
guy was sitting apart I almostwent and sat next in the middle
of the two dudes, yeah, so Icould find out what the hell was
going on.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Hey, hey, hey, what's going on?
Just like first on the plane.
Just sit right between themlike hey guys, what's up?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Oh, and the other thing too, I totally forgot.
So I I'm looking around, I'mlike there's some interesting
looking people here, what'sgoing on?
And then I see their shirts andthey're all.
You know I say this as someonein recovery they're all in
recovery, they're all part ofthe Oxford group recovery like
recovery homes or something, andthey're from everywhere, like
(14:11):
Florida and all over the place,and they're coming to Nashville
I don't know what, for there area hundred of them on my flight,
holy crap.
And so they announced them.
It was really cool.
They had like a chant that theydid before we took off and a
chant when we landed.
And so, like I'm putting allthree things together, I'm like,
did somebody in recovery Like,are they smuggling drugs or
something?
You?
know, so I'm like putting allthese pieces together, and my
(14:33):
novelist mind is just was justworrying.
At that point it's like if youhad been sitting next to me, you
and I probably could havewritten a book as we were
standing there.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
You know that's happened before.
You have a moment and you'relike what if there's a novel
idea?
People always ask me where doyour ideas come from?
Stuff like that.
Yep, mm, hmm, stuff like that.
In the ironic not to change thesubject too much, but in the
irony department I saw anarticle this morning about a
(15:05):
Minneapolis city council womanand I don't want to sound like I
glorying in this because I'mnot.
I think it's terrible.
She got carjacked and assaultedin her driveway and she posted
a picture of herself and she haslike blood running down her
face and went on.
It was awful, awful picture.
But she was really big on thedefund, the police movement in
2020.
And so it's one of these thingswhere it's like her post was
(15:28):
very much like you can't letthese kids because there's a
juvenile carjacking problem inMinneapolis.
And you know me, I lovecriminology and I used to live
in Minneapolis and it was one ofthe nicest cities, really cool
city, and it's just goneabsolutely to hell.
All the people I know that werein the area, including my
friend who was in town yesterday.
I said the same thing.
(15:48):
It's like there's certain areasthat were vibrant before and
you just don't really know thereanymore.
Yeah, because it's a pretty city.
It was.
It was.
There was an area called LakeStreet, which is a little lower
scale or whatever, that I usedto go down all the time and like
there are still burnt out husksof buildings there, really,
yeah.
So I mean I'll digress here fora second and get back to the
(16:10):
point, which is in the wake ofthe riots of 2020, 1500
buildings were damaged and like750 were totally destroyed, and
insurance would pay you know,100,000 or 50,000 to have you
clear the building.
But because there were so manybuildings destroyed in
Minneapolis, the price to cleara building went up to 400,000 or
something like that, and sopeople couldn't afford it like
(16:33):
literally couldn't afford it.
And these were not.
I mean, these are not wealthyfolks whose property got
demolished.
It wasn't.
Edina is the wealthy suburb ofMinneapolis you joke about.
You know, edina is like thecake eaters or whatever.
The Marie Antoinette area ofMinnesota, minneapolis, that
wasn't what was touched.
It was the lower scale areasthat got burnt, all the shit.
(16:55):
So you know, you have theseminority owned businesses that
were just burned to the groundand it's like people were
whinging for the last few yearsabout how there are food deserts
in poor neighborhoods.
Like, yeah, when you burn downthe grocery stores and the you
know the convenience stores andwhatnot, then people are like I
don't want to open a businessthere, put all my money into it.
One of the guys whose businesswas destroyed is this I think he
(17:17):
was a firefighter, this blackdude.
He put all of his money into asports bar and it got destroyed,
just destroyed, and they pickedup a GoFundMe and he made like
millions because it went viral.
Because he's just crying ashe's sitting there in the ruin
of his business like, oh my gosh, I've put everything I had into
this and it's just gone.
What did he do to deserve that?
Not a damn thing.
(17:38):
It's just we decided that orderwas going to, you know, not be
the order of the day and let theentire city get burned down or
you know large swaths of it.
So, anyway, I'm glad this citycouncil woman has come around on
it, but it just it sucksbecause it a lot of people got
hurt a lot worse than a bloodyface.
(17:59):
Yeah, because of this absoluteidiocy, and a lot of us at the
time were sitting there going.
This is a terrible idea.
Like I understand being veryangry by what you saw in that
video especially.
There was really no excuse forit, but like destroying order
and the service that's there toprotect innocent people in some
(18:22):
sort of mad crusade.
To like there were people thatwere just thinking like okay,
well, there's no such thing ascriminals.
I guess the police are just thebad guys.
Like I don't understand it atall.
One of our listeners, paul Kerbo, was I don't hope I pronounced
your name right, paul, but hepointed out he's like this was
just crazy to me at the time.
It's like reform the police ifyou have to, but like get rid of
(18:44):
them.
Like how are you going to dealwith the really bad people out
there?
And there are some really badpeople out there.
Like I don't understand thesefolks that are like we need to
decarcerate the.
The only thing that createscriminals is the prison system.
And it's like have you nevermet it?
Like I've looked in the eyes ofa person who is I'm pretty sure
he was a psychopath, like thekind of person that the only
(19:07):
thing keeping him from doingsomething terrible to you is the
knowledge that he might getcaught in that moment.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Right, and once you see that, you don't really
forget it, because it leaves youwith that kind of pit in your
stomach, but I think maybethat's part of it is that people
haven't experienced that orhaven't seen it Right, and so to
them it's it's the world isLottie Dottie, I can kind of do
whatever I want until somebodyputs a gun on my gun, on my face
(19:34):
, or steals my kid or what youknow it's like.
Again, I think that's why and Ithink about this a lot,
actually about you know there'sa reason why a lot of the people
doing that sort of thing areyounger, right, yeah, young
angry, yes, angry, not as muchlife experience.
And I would love to, I want tohear, like some people who were,
(20:00):
whether it was part of the warprotests back after Vietnam, who
did things, you know, not justprotests, but like actual
radicals and bomb building andhow they feel now right, like
3000 bombings in the US duringthe 19, and we know we don't
talk about that.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
No, I mean, this is the weird part.
There's a great book by BrianBurroughs called Days of Rage,
where he really details themovement from start to finish,
like every step of the way.
There are things like the Ithink they were called the
family which was one of the lastwaves of the like bank robber
terrorism, where they murderedtwo or three people and Chase a
(20:38):
Boudin who was the newly nowrecalled district attorney of
San Francisco, let the wholetown go to shit.
They recalled him because hewas doing such a bad job.
He was just not prosecutinganything, he was a non.
This was back then.
No, this is like in the lastfive years but I'm tying it back
.
Got it, got it, got it Hisparents were two of the bank
robbers that did one of thoselast robberies from those
(20:59):
radicals, really, yeah.
And one of the more notoriousradicals in this was Bill Dorn
and Bernadine, or sorry, billAyres and Bernadine Dorn.
They were part of the, theChicago kind of section of the,
the radicals, I guess you couldsay.
I forget was there was a duringthe 1968 convention and
(21:21):
Democrat convention in Chicago.
There was a riot where theradicals clashed with the police
.
It was a whole thing.
But after that they became partof the the weather underground,
weather underground, theweather underground.
Yeah, they were a radicalunderground sect of essentially
extreme leftists.
They participated in bombings.
They set off bombs.
(21:42):
One of the most notorious oneswas the bomb that went off in
Greenwich Village.
That actually it was their ownsafe house where two or two or
three of their people were Ithink one was like sleeping and
two of their other people wereworking on a bomb and it blew up
the whole townhouse just likekilled them.
Dorn and Ayres were wantedpeople for a long time.
(22:05):
A lot of these people wentunderground because they were
wanted in connection with thesebombings and where they now
that's funny, you say that theyare professors in Chicago
tenured.
Yeah, almost all these radicalscame out of prison.
If they went to prison and wereimmediately hired into academia
, holy crap.
Oh yeah, burroughs does a greatjob of tracing like what
happened.
I actually wrote a book calledUnderground where I kind of
(22:26):
played with it in girl in thebox terms where, like one of the
victims of a bombing of afictional underground
organization, his father hadgotten killed in it and he
decided to take revenge byblowing up these people because
essentially what happened isthey were involved in all these
bombings.
People got hurt, people gotmaimed, people got killed.
They in most cases paid littleto no price and then, if they
(22:49):
went to prison for a few years,they came out to cushy jobs, to
academia and they taught thenext generation.
It became this sort of.
It's the roots of the wokeproblems that we have in
academia to this day, where it'slike there's an intolerance for
free speech, there's all thisanger and I've said it before, I
(23:10):
think people over assign theword wokeness to stuff when you
should really focus it on thethings that are real excesses.
Yeah, a lot of it came from thefact that people went from the
radical undergroundorganizations right in academia
and then into the seats of powerin academia.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, because then that directly feeds those kids
that we were talking about asecond ago, right?
Because you hold these peopleup as mentors and heroes and
people that you're supposed torespect and then they mold you
and that's just wow.
I didn't realize it was that.
I knew there were some of that.
(23:51):
I didn't know how deep it wentthough.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Burroughs who wrote the book.
He wrote another great onecalled Public Enemies, about the
rise of the FBI, the firstmajor crime way of the gangsters
of the 1930s.
Oh, really yeah like Bonnie andClyde and all of them.
Those two are great books but ifyou had to pick one of them,
days of Rage is just phenomenaland the interesting thing about
it to me is, I mean, it's verynuanced portraits of these folks
.
Almost all of the undergroundwas driven by the injustices
(24:19):
that were causing the civilrights movement at the time.
They chose more of the MalcolmX path.
Where it's like you're going todo violence to my people, I
will show you violence kind ofthing where it's like you can
have a little sympathy for wherethey started from, but then,
like what they started to do inthe process and the things they
did in the process, it's like,oh my gosh, what was the
author's name?
Again, it was Brian Burroughs,b-u-r-r-o-u-g-h-s.
(24:45):
Days of Rage and Public Enemies.
I think Public Enemies mightactually have been the genesis
of that Johnny Depp movie aboutwhat's his name?
Which one?
It was Public Enemies.
It had Christian Bale, as Iforget.
I forget Melvin Purvis, the FBIagent.
(25:05):
It was basically the start ofthe FBI and how they were
cracking down on these.
Dillinger, dillinger it was themovie about John Dillinger.
Really a substandard movie, butgreat book.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Okay, I gotta check these out.
I want to do a deep dive onHoover.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Oh really yeah, that one's got Public Enemies has a
pretty good intro on Hoover.
Really I'd say Days of Ragesort of glances off of him.
At the end I walked away fromPublic Enemies with almost no
respect for the FBI as aninstitution because you can see
how much of what happened Evenback then.
Those two books are kind oflike the bookends of how the FBI
(25:45):
built its reputation and thenmaintained his reputation, even
though they were utterlyclueless and in the face of what
they were dealing with andBurroughs I mean I guess you
could say maybe he, he, Ithought he had kept a pretty
impartial Tone for the most partbut it doesn't seem like he had
a lot of respect for the FBI.
But one of the things hepointed out repeatedly, and
(26:06):
public enemies especially, ishow much of the FBI mythology of
how good they are at the timecame down to Hoover Manipulating
events and manipulating thepress and kind of pumping up
their reputation.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
essentially well, so he gets mentioned a lot in.
You know, thanks to you, Ifound eight books and I've been
going back through W E B Griffinnovels again.
Yeah, and Hoover plays a fairlysignificant role.
Right, because?
Because the pretty much every,every book that I love of
Griffin's is the talking about,you know, bill Donovan starting
(26:43):
the OSSC IA and Donovan'srelationship with Hoover, which
was significant.
Actually, donovan was the one.
Donovan was supposed to be thehead of the FBI, really, but
then recommended Hoover to FDR.
Yeah, but then once Rooseveltsaid, hey, we're gonna do this
OSS thing, and before it was theOffice of Strategic Services
(27:05):
but before it was like theOffice of Information something.
Anyway, hoover didn't like it.
He was like that should be ourjob, and that's when the the
distinction between FBI isdomestic, cia is International.
That's where that whole thingcame, because of two.
What?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
happened to that distinction?
I wonder it doesn't feel likethere's as much distinction?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
anymore.
Yeah, yeah, I think we've.
I think we've definitelymuddied those water really the
last 20 years.
I think is totally thrown thatout.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Absolutely.
What was interesting about.
There's a lot of criticismafter 9-11 and some of it rested
on the shoulders of a ladynamed Jamie Gorlik.
I don't know if you ever heardthis.
No, they called it a mistressof disaster for a while, because
she was.
She wrote a memo talking abouthow there needed to be a
firewall between the FBI and theCIA and, in fairness to her,
(27:54):
she wasn't entirely wrong.
But because they built thatfirewall that Did not allow for
the sharing of information thatwould have allowed us to
attribute right the hijackers tothe appropriate motives, let's
say so.
That was one thing.
She did.
This.
The next thing she did is shemoved on to I Think it was
Goldman Sachs and wrote memoabout.
(28:17):
Wrote extensively.
I could be Misremembering I.
I know she was tied to itsomehow.
I think what happened is shewas one of the ones responsible
for saying, hey, we should getinto the subprime mortgage
business.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Oh really.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
So there's like there's like this internet
subculture where it's a meet,almost a meme, where it's like a
Jamie Gorlick's involved insomething get the fuck away from
it.
Like I think now she's a boardmember at Netflix, where it was
just like she just continuouslyfailed her way up.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Let's subscribers because of the Gorlick effect.
Yeah she's.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
She had been there for several years.
I haven't checked in on her ina few years.
I don't know.
I have a bad feeling aboutwhat's gonna happen to Netflix
in the next few years though, so, wow, I don't know if she I
don't think she has anything todo with it.
At this point, I feel that Ifeel a little bit bad for her.
Like you know, she was justhaving an upward career path
that she just got tangled up ina couple places, and, honestly,
the firewall idea between FDT,bi and CIA does not seem like
(29:14):
such a crazy idea anymore.
Like there, there should be aline between what you pursue
with your domesticcounterintelligence operation
and what you're pursuing withyour international foreign
surveillance operations, andthere's unfortunately not as
much.
I mean, it came out recentlythat Whenever the I think it's
(29:35):
the FBI Wants information on aAmerican citizen, they just go
over the British and they'relike hey, we're not allowed to
spy on this person, can you goahead and give us all you have
on it.
Brits are like sure, and thenthey need something from you
know, from a British citizen.
We just do the spine form.
It's like, no, no, that was nothow this was supposed to work,
(29:57):
but that's happened for a longtime.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, I'll tell you the other one, though the ones
that are really good at it arethe, the Israelis.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Oh, they're dynamite.
And what's more interestingthan that is there's a Private
group of X massage that runs.
I think it's called black cubeor something like that.
Oh yeah, it sounds, soundsterrible, doesn't it?
It's they.
They were working for HarveyWeinstein.
I mean, they have some veryhigh-profile clients and they'll
like run kind of prop PI, slashdirty tricks, slash Whatever
(30:27):
you need done, wealthy person.
I think I heard of them, yeah,recently, and because it's all
classified, they could be themost noble operation you've ever
known, where it's like we'll doprivate investigation work but
like morally, we're not going todo this kind of shit.
But it kind of sounds like theymight be willing to blur that
line maybe a lot.
I don't know, I'm not in thatrarefied air.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
But do you ever wish that you had your own, like
private investigator, at yourservice?
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, I mean, sometimes it'd be kind of cool
to be like I would like to knowthis about this person or this,
you know whatever.
You know what I would reallylike them more than a private
investigator is personalassistant.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Oh, oh, what.
What hold on what would you usea personal assistant?
Speaker 1 (31:10):
for?
Well, that's.
The point is that I don't haveenough for a personal assistant
to do, but it would be stufflike why don't you go ahead and
deal with this dinnerreservation for me See?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
cuz, yeah, cuz.
I've heard that at first youdon't think you need one and
then they start kind of diggingyou know, because, especially if
they're my shopping, they justthey know, so they start asking
questions.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
You're like oh, you can do that too, go pick up that
prescription cream that willsave me from, you know, itching
my face off, since it's allergicto itself.
Pick up some groceries whileyou're out there, you know.
I mean, there's just all theselittle things.
Go pick up my kids from thisthing.
I actually I would probablystill go do that myself because
I like the time I spend withthem in the process.
But you know, there's all theseother little things that I
(31:48):
would like to not have to worryabout on my day-to-day.
I had to do correspondence withKDP, which is Amazon's Kendall
direct publishing.
I'm trying to change thedescription on my very first
book, defender, and I hit thesubmit button and like, within
24 hours it changes thedescription.
If you change the verb, itwon't, wouldn't change.
(32:09):
It was locked.
It wouldn't change theDescription at all.
Like I had this whole boldprint thing about how the series
is now finished and Reviewstuff, and I'm like, okay,
what's going on with that?
And I'm corresponding back andforth with with Amazon and
they're like we don't know,we'll have technical services
look into it and get back to you.
(32:29):
And did they?
They fixed it, but they did nottell me what was wrong.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Did you, do you remember a while back?
You could either change thedescription in your KDP
dashboard or author central, andif you did it in author central
, it overrode the KDP.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
I don't know you can still do that.
I don't know that I ever didthat, but that would probably
explain it if I ever did?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
I suppose I don't know, because I know I don't
Again, I haven't thought aboutthat years, that's.
You just said it.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, I was like, yeah, I mean I Don't know if,
like what we were talking aboutfor forwards, like, oh, they
finally did bring the hatchet inand really just chain, saw out
a bunch of people from KDP andthey just had a long queue of
these are the projects we haveto deal with and there are only
five people dealing with themnow, or?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
from Everything I've heard, it is the team is getting
smaller and smaller and smaller.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yeah, yeah, cuz it took them over a week.
Yeah, and I'm, and they keptsending me emails.
I like we'll get back to you inthree business days.
And the lady ladies like I'm sosorry, we have not gotten this
taken care of yet.
We do not know.
We're still looking into it.
I'm like what happened?
Speaker 2 (33:35):
I don't know, I don't know where they're going.
Anymore, dude, I just don't.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Don't worry's me.
Yeah, I mean, I think theycould run it at a lesser you
know rate of people there, but IDon't know how much lesser.
I have a feeling that the backend of Amazon is Incredibly
complex at this point.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean because you know it'sprobably fine If you don't have
a bunch of scammy stuff going on.
Okay, but I always have a lotof scammy stuff going on and
they very seldom cared about it.
Well, exactly, but where theytry to fix it and that just
keeps them.
That keeps them super, superbusy.
Yeah, the AI stuff's beenkeeping them very busy recently.
Oh, cuz I was coming Well,because people are doing like AI
(34:18):
generated books that are likecomplete, just nothing.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Well, Lisa told me yesterday that you have to
identify now on your dashboardif it's an AI.
I created book.
I didn't even see it yetpublishing.
Yeah, no, yeah, I've got a bookto publish here soon.
And is that AI generated?
Well, um, only if I'm peopleused to say I'm clearly a robot.
So in that sense, perhaps.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Well, hey, I got a wrap early, a little bit early
today, just because I gotta goget a haircut, because I'm
feeling really scruffy you.
So any last thoughts today, getthose sideburns trimmed, you
look like oh, I know God, I keepplaying with him, going like
this.
I mean you want to just shavehim off.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
I'm gonna do the mr Burns thing.
You ever remember that episodeof the Simpsons where he has Don
Maddingly?
He's like madding.
Yes, get those sides, we'remadding.
We finally shaved like a stripacross the top of his head and
burns.
Like I told you to take out thesideburns, he's like I don't
know what you want for me, I'vegot nothing.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Oh, I forgot about that episode, so it's great.
Oh my gosh, I haven't watchedthe Simpsons in so long.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yeah, yeah, you're not missing it, it's still going
.
Yes, yeah.
I don't think that I haven'twatched an episode in years, and
they weren't very good when Ileft.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah, no, all right, well with that, we're out.
The Simpsons are out.
I.
All right, and we're here.
We are here.
We are here.
It's been.
When was the last time we gottogether?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Two weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Was it really?
Yeah, I was out of town.
I was out of town last week,ever.
I thought it was okay.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Yeah, I know it does.
Well, I think you and I we weretalking about it beforehand.
There's We've been a littlebusy.
Mucho chaos, yeah yeah, whatwas going on with you?
Oh, just get stuff crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
No, so yeah, it was.
I had a Dentist appointmentthis week.
A friend came in out of nowhere.
I've rearranged my office.
Yeah, I didn't know if you sawthat.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I like it.
I get to stare at books nowthat shelf collapsed.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh, right after I got everything fixed, everything in
place.
I moved a, moved a bookshelf, Iassembled a new bookshelf, I
moved three whiteboards todifferent locations, moved every
book in the place which is likethere, like 600 books in here,
and as soon as I got that oneall lined up and perfect, the
shelf collapsed at the top andcollapsed down all the way
through.
(00:55):
So that is a that one.
We ordered another replacementto To fit the current well done.
Well done.
So that was part of this week.
Monday was a holiday and Idon't know how you feel about
holidays.
I used to hate him because Ilike to work a lot and now I
love them, but Monday holidaysput my whole week behind.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Oh, dude, it totally put me behind this week.
Yeah, I've been playingcatch-up since Tuesday, and it's
not that I didn't have a goodtime on Monday.
No I do you know what?
What happened, though, was atthe end of the day.
I started not dreading the nextday, but I'm like, oh geez, I
have so many things because Iwas gone on the weekend, because
I usually dabble on theweekends and get get some things
(01:35):
done, so during you know, inthe beginning of the week, I'm
ready to rock totally.
Yeah, I was totally behind thisweek.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I'd see fantasy football drafts this weekend,
which I'm not even a footballguy, but like I'm friends with
people who are football peopleand I just love them, so I'm
like you know, this is fun,let's oh, it's fun, I'm gonna
leave with my boys, my sons isthat new, or have you always
done that?
That's.
This is the second year We'vedone that one and then I've been
in a league with my neighborslike Lorenz and, and Prestigard
(01:59):
runs it friends of podcast, andthat's been years and it's just
a blast like trash talking withthose guys, yeah, really fun and
the drafts always good.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
All mine went to funk the same year Did you really
like three leads and they allwent, they all disappeared.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Um, yeah, I was.
I was hoping to finish a firstdraft this week, but as I'm like
, proceeding along, I had torevise my word count down.
I was gonna do 20,000 wordsagain.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
This week working on right now girl in the box 56.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Okay, I'll finish it next week.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm atthe last Act turn right now.
I've written some stuff ahead.
I have a pretty good idea ofwhat's going on.
It's just it's been all overthe place.
Oh, and I found out I'mallergic to my own face.
What does that mean?
So I went to the dermatologistbecause I've had this rash on my
forehead where it's kind oflike red and it's been annoying
(02:48):
and it Kind of goes in and out.
Sometimes this worse, sometimesis better, and it turns out
that I am allergic.
This section of my skin isallergic to the mites that are
in the skin.
What, yes, I I'm like I justthought it was some sort of
contact dermatitis.
So I like changed soaps,changed shampoos, changed sleep
masks, and it's still just kindof red, itchy and annoying.
(03:08):
She takes one look at it.
She likes scrape some stuff offof it and goes and puts it on
her microscope.
She's like you are allergic tothe mites in your skin.
She's like it's okay, you'renot lousy, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Everyone has these mites?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
It's just this particular patch.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I'm just a guy in Asheville, wasn't it?
It was a guy in Asheville.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I wish this is pretty pretty.
What do you call it?
It precedes that, but I waslike I'm just gonna say I'm
allergic to my own face.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
What do you?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
do about that?
You have a cream, yes, itinvolves an ivermectin
ivermectin, yes, which is aNobel Prize winning Nobel Prize
for medicine, winning Dwarmer oh, my other things.
Oh right, it basically killsthe Whatever.
And will it kill your ringwormtoo?
Well, let's hope so.
I think you have to take itinternally in order to kill
ringworm.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Mmm, delicious.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's good stuff.
So, anyway, that was my chaosallergic to your own face.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I thought you were gonna say like I keep looking in
the mirror and cringing orsomething.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, I do but for different reasons.
But all that happened this weekit was just like one thing
after another where it's like apoint meant this and none of it
was.
I wrote it up in my my mightynetworks community yesterday
because I've just kind of beenhalf laughing this week or it's
like I cannot Get ahead.
Like my buddy calls me upliterally yesterday he's I
haven't seen him but like twicein the last seven years, since I
(04:33):
love Minnesota, he's like hey,I'm in Nashville for like 24
hours and I got a meeting thisafternoon in a town called
Franklin I don't know if you'veheard of it.
It's like one of the suburbslike Jacket.
Come on over and we had a greattime and it's all been, you
know, good and fun.
But it's like when you'retrying to get a regimented,
(04:54):
ordered schedule executed, themore chaos, the harder it is to
like.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I think that's my biggest stressor these days.
Yeah, like, I'm typicallyPretty okay with having tasks
throughout the day.
Like you know, I take my kidsto school, and all that although
next week my oldest startsdriving.
Oh yeah, like for real drivingwhich will be which, which will
be good for her, good for sheand my son.
But I don't know I'm gonna missit.
(05:20):
Yeah, cuz I kind of I like itthat's why I do it, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Put a governor on the car where it's like you cannot
go faster than 30 miles an hour.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Well, well, she, she has a Tesla, so we can see
exactly what's going on, oh,really.
Yeah, and you can like, shecan't go over a certain certain
speed limit, and I mean it's not.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
You know, speed limit is 60 and I'm going 60 in a 20
mile an hour zone now.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
No, but it's.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I mean, she's a, she's a safe driver, she's,
she's good and hey man, we wereall safe drivers when we were
driving with our parents.
It was when me and my buddy gotout on our own that we would
find out that his car could go125 miles an hour.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
That's the thing is she's got.
She's one of those that she hasskin in the game, yeah, and she
is very particular about herstuff Mm-hmm, about her stuff
getting messed up.
So I have a feeling that shewill take better care of her car
than I would.
Yeah, she's just that's howshe's wired.
Now number two I have no ideaif he's ever gonna have a car
(06:14):
under our house.
I, I don't even know, I don'tknow.
But yeah, you know.
Going back to like, it's funnywhen these random tasks pop up
in my week, right, because Ihave I in my head.
It's like I know what my weeklooks like.
And then it's like, oh, I gottatake the dog, like I gotta take
my dog.
I took my dog in last week.
Yep, she has like a little masson her tail that has to be
(06:36):
removed.
And, of course, nowadays I'msorry to all you animal lovers
out there you can spend afortune on dogs.
Yes, but an animal to me isstill an animal.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, okay and she's like you know, we can get this
thing taken off.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
We can send it off for path pathology and do all
this stuff.
And and I look at the woman,I'm like I wasn't mean.
I was like, look, just so youknow, we don't go to extremes
with our pets.
So I just want to put that outthere, like we'll get the thing
cut off and give her anesthesiawhile all that.
But I'm not having all thissent off and because, like what
(07:10):
if you do get it back and it iscancer?
So what am I gonna do?
Send her off or chemo orwhatever?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Like no, I was just talking to a guy about that the
other day because he was tellingme that he's he takes that same
approach.
He's like we love our dog, butyou, you can spend tens of
thousands of dollars on dogchemo.
Yeah, and I've seen it?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, I've seen it.
I mean, I, you know, I don'tthink my brother and sister in
law listened to this, but theyhad bulldogs.
Yeah, and bulldogs haveproblems, man, cause they're
super inbred or whatever.
Yeah, and you talk about likelike take taking them to
Knoxville for a special surgeryon the shoulder and like I don't
know how much that dog wasworth at the end of the day.
(07:51):
Um, I, I just I don't know, itwas just funny.
The other day.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
A hundred thousand dollar dog by the time they were
.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
No, I'm just like yes , do I love my dog?
Yes, but the dog, the dog inthe hierarchy of our house, is
not the equal to human beings.
And it's funny because nowadaysa lot of people have the
opposite feeling.
Absolutely Like I remember Ihave have you.
Do you have animals in yourbooks at all?
Yeah, like pets and yes.
Have you killed one or have.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
No, I know better than that.
Yeah, yeah, I, we there was aclose call with a very popular
character who happens to be adog, and um, I got some emails
after that I don't even doanything to like the Sienna has
dogs in Girl in the Box and Ilike I don't even there's never
a threat to them, cause I'm likeI know what these dog people
(08:39):
are like and I don't need thatkind of hate mail.
I've killed every kind of closeto her character under the sun.
And people don't blink.
No, they do, they get mad, butlike it would be nothing akin to
I know what would happen if Ikill a dog.
I mean, it's just pet peopleare.
They love their pets, they loveother people's pets.
I, you know that's one of thosethings where it's like do I
(09:01):
want to stir emotions?
Yes, do I want to beat ahornet's nest with a stick until
they all explode out and stingme to death?
No, I don't really want that.
That's pet people.
Pet people are hornets.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
All right so so let's stir the pot a little bit.
Yeah, all right, I have aquestion for you.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
And plus non-pet people if I killed the pet, are
going to be like oh, that's ashame and move on.
So it doesn't produce theemotional reaction.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
No, it really doesn't .
It really doesn't.
Animals in stores how do youfeel about that?
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I mean Petco, they're fine If and if they're really
well trained, I mean I don'thave a huge issue with it.
Like there was a case I wascoming back from Italy into the
Minneapolis airport and thisgirl had her dog and a little
thing under the seat.
It was the most annoyingfucking dog on the face of the
planet.
It crapped in the Minneapolisairport line.
She headed out and was likewalking it along and it just
took a big dump in the middle ofthe thing.
(09:49):
One of the things I've neverbeen a fan of the TSA.
But this TSA agent who wasthere like reamed her a new
asshole and made her clean it up.
It was the most I was like oh,yes, yes, this finally the TSA
has done something worthwhile,cause they don't catch
terrorists, but they, you know,but they get poop.
They get the teenage girl whobrought her stupid dog to take a
(10:11):
crap on the middle of theairport floor while I'm waiting
in line to pass customs.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I had an interesting experience at Reagan national
this past weekend, so I got anearlier flight to come home.
Oh, because, long story short,my wife tore her hamstring no
Four, which so I was.
I was with my brothers.
No sale, sell signal.
We're in the middle of nowhere,like you have to drive 30
minutes to get sell signalanywhere.
(10:36):
So as soon as I hit sell rangeagain, I get this text hey, by
the way, you know I'm fine but Itore my hands string.
So I'm like, of course my brainjust goes on overdrive at that
point and I'm like gotta get anew flight and it was fine, but
I get to the airport how?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
do?
I want to know how she tore herhamstring.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Like running injury or playing pickleball.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I thought pickleball was supposed to be low in that.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Well it is, but some, some.
She said it was like a freakishthing, Like her foot, her right
foot slipped out of her shoe.
Oh, oh.
And so when she went to, likeyou know, she was like reaching
and as it slipped out, thenbasically she did the splits.
Oh no, unintentionally.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, that's what happened.
It wasn't like she didn't fallthere's anything like that.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
It was just, it was a complete overextension.
So she's doing better now,anyway.
So I'm at the airport and I goto my gate, I'm early and
there's like seven TSA agents atthe gate.
So you know, I'm a curiousfella.
So I just kind of stand, I'mlike watching and they're like
looking around and I just I'mlike what are they looking for?
(11:42):
What are they looking for?
And they, you know, sometimesthey'll pull out a cell phone
and they'll look at it, whatever.
And then I see this gentlemanget up and he has a ball cap on
and he looks like a fit guy, youknow, trim and probably six
foot three, and he goes to thegate agent, then goes back to
his seat, goes to the gate agentagain and and I'm like what's
(12:03):
going on here, and then said mangoes and get his two friends
who are, you know, athleticlooking fellas, and one of them
actually has a bag that says,like you know, united US track
and field team or something likethat, like black guy.
So it's like two white guys anda black guy, one guy's
obviously older than the othertwo, and the plane, the plane
(12:24):
before us, the plane that comesin, that we're going to take is
debarking like people aregetting off.
These three guys I've neverseen this walk straight onto the
plane.
Nobody says anything, just gostraight on.
It must be Marshall's orsomething.
So when I get on the plane I'mlike they're sure enough,
they're, you know they'resitting there.
Yeah, I'm going.
What is going on?
Do these two things together?
So of course, I go over and Istand next to the TSA agents and
(12:48):
I'm like see if I can hearanything.
Well, I think what it was.
I saw the picture on the oneTSA agents phone.
Yeah, I think it was a pictureof a male and a child.
I think a child had beenkidnapped.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
So that's what they were like.
So they actually announced andI've never seen this either they
announced that hey, before youget on the flight, we're going
to have one more TSA check.
Please have your ID out andyour boarding pass.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
And of course they didn't give me two looks at all,
yeah, and, but it was just, itwas bizarre.
That's interesting.
I love that stuff.
Yeah, I mean not for the kid,but I'm just like it's a story.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Like I want to know, like what's going on.
I really want to go over tosomebody.
I want to go up to the dudesthat were on the plane.
Go, hey, what are you guysdoing?
What's going on?
I almost because two guys weresitting together and then one
guy was sitting apart I almostwent and sat next in the middle
of the two dudes, yeah, so Icould find out what the hell was
going on.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Hey, hey, hey, what's going on?
Just like first on the plane.
Just sit right between themlike hey guys, what's up?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Oh, and the other thing too, I totally forgot.
So I I'm looking around, I'mlike there's some interesting
looking people here, what'sgoing on?
And then I see their shirts andthey're all.
You know I say this as someonein recovery they're all in
recovery, they're all part ofthe Oxford group recovery like
recovery homes or something, andthey're from everywhere, like
(14:11):
Florida and all over the place,and they're coming to Nashville
I don't know what, for there area hundred of them on my flight,
holy crap.
And so they announced them.
It was really cool.
They had like a chant that theydid before we took off and a
chant when we landed.
And so, like I'm putting allthree things together, I'm like,
did somebody in recovery Like,are they smuggling drugs or
something?
You?
know, so I'm like putting allthese pieces together, and my
(14:33):
novelist mind is just was justworrying.
At that point it's like if youhad been sitting next to me, you
and I probably could havewritten a book as we were
standing there.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
You know that's happened before.
You have a moment and you'relike what if there's a novel
idea?
People always ask me where doyour ideas come from?
Stuff like that.
Yep, mm, hmm, stuff like that.
In the ironic not to change thesubject too much, but in the
irony department I saw anarticle this morning about a
(15:05):
Minneapolis city council womanand I don't want to sound like I
glorying in this because I'mnot.
I think it's terrible.
She got carjacked and assaultedin her driveway and she posted
a picture of herself and she haslike blood running down her
face and went on.
It was awful, awful picture.
But she was really big on thedefund, the police movement in
2020.
And so it's one of these thingswhere it's like her post was
(15:28):
very much like you can't letthese kids because there's a
juvenile carjacking problem inMinneapolis.
And you know me, I lovecriminology and I used to live
in Minneapolis and it was one ofthe nicest cities, really cool
city, and it's just goneabsolutely to hell.
All the people I know that werein the area, including my
friend who was in town yesterday.
I said the same thing.
(15:48):
It's like there's certain areasthat were vibrant before and
you just don't really know thereanymore.
Yeah, because it's a pretty city.
It was.
It was.
There was an area called LakeStreet, which is a little lower
scale or whatever, that I usedto go down all the time and like
there are still burnt out husksof buildings there, really,
yeah.
So I mean I'll digress here fora second and get back to the
(16:10):
point, which is in the wake ofthe riots of 2020, 1500
buildings were damaged and like750 were totally destroyed, and
insurance would pay you know,100,000 or 50,000 to have you
clear the building.
But because there were so manybuildings destroyed in
Minneapolis, the price to cleara building went up to 400,000 or
something like that, and sopeople couldn't afford it like
(16:33):
literally couldn't afford it.
And these were not.
I mean, these are not wealthyfolks whose property got
demolished.
It wasn't.
Edina is the wealthy suburb ofMinneapolis you joke about.
You know, edina is like thecake eaters or whatever.
The Marie Antoinette area ofMinnesota, minneapolis, that
wasn't what was touched.
It was the lower scale areasthat got burnt, all the shit.
(16:55):
So you know, you have theseminority owned businesses that
were just burned to the groundand it's like people were
whinging for the last few yearsabout how there are food deserts
in poor neighborhoods.
Like, yeah, when you burn downthe grocery stores and the you
know the convenience stores andwhatnot, then people are like I
don't want to open a businessthere, put all my money into it.
One of the guys whose businesswas destroyed is this I think he
(17:17):
was a firefighter, this blackdude.
He put all of his money into asports bar and it got destroyed,
just destroyed, and they pickedup a GoFundMe and he made like
millions because it went viral.
Because he's just crying ashe's sitting there in the ruin
of his business like, oh my gosh, I've put everything I had into
this and it's just gone.
What did he do to deserve that?
Not a damn thing.
(17:38):
It's just we decided that orderwas going to, you know, not be
the order of the day and let theentire city get burned down or
you know large swaths of it.
So, anyway, I'm glad this citycouncil woman has come around on
it, but it just it sucksbecause it a lot of people got
hurt a lot worse than a bloodyface.
(17:59):
Yeah, because of this absoluteidiocy, and a lot of us at the
time were sitting there going.
This is a terrible idea.
Like I understand being veryangry by what you saw in that
video especially.
There was really no excuse forit, but like destroying order
and the service that's there toprotect innocent people in some
(18:22):
sort of mad crusade.
To like there were people thatwere just thinking like okay,
well, there's no such thing ascriminals.
I guess the police are just thebad guys.
Like I don't understand it atall.
One of our listeners, paul Kerbo, was I don't hope I pronounced
your name right, paul, but hepointed out he's like this was
just crazy to me at the time.
It's like reform the police ifyou have to, but like get rid of
(18:44):
them.
Like how are you going to dealwith the really bad people out
there?
And there are some really badpeople out there.
Like I don't understand thesefolks that are like we need to
decarcerate the.
The only thing that createscriminals is the prison system.
And it's like have you nevermet it?
Like I've looked in the eyes ofa person who is I'm pretty sure
he was a psychopath, like thekind of person that the only
(19:07):
thing keeping him from doingsomething terrible to you is the
knowledge that he might getcaught in that moment.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Right, and once you see that, you don't really
forget it, because it leaves youwith that kind of pit in your
stomach, but I think maybethat's part of it is that people
haven't experienced that orhaven't seen it Right, and so to
them it's it's the world isLottie Dottie, I can kind of do
whatever I want until somebodyputs a gun on my gun, on my face
(19:34):
, or steals my kid or what youknow it's like.
Again, I think that's why and Ithink about this a lot,
actually about you know there'sa reason why a lot of the people
doing that sort of thing areyounger, right, yeah, young
angry, yes, angry, not as muchlife experience.
And I would love to, I want tohear, like some people who were,
(20:00):
whether it was part of the warprotests back after Vietnam, who
did things, you know, not justprotests, but like actual
radicals and bomb building andhow they feel now right, like
3000 bombings in the US duringthe 19, and we know we don't
talk about that.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
No, I mean, this is the weird part.
There's a great book by BrianBurroughs called Days of Rage,
where he really details themovement from start to finish,
like every step of the way.
There are things like the Ithink they were called the
family which was one of the lastwaves of the like bank robber
terrorism, where they murderedtwo or three people and Chase a
(20:38):
Boudin who was the newly nowrecalled district attorney of
San Francisco, let the wholetown go to shit.
They recalled him because hewas doing such a bad job.
He was just not prosecutinganything, he was a non.
This was back then.
No, this is like in the lastfive years but I'm tying it back
.
Got it, got it, got it Hisparents were two of the bank
robbers that did one of thoselast robberies from those
(20:59):
radicals, really, yeah.
And one of the more notoriousradicals in this was Bill Dorn
and Bernadine, or sorry, billAyres and Bernadine Dorn.
They were part of the, theChicago kind of section of the,
the radicals, I guess you couldsay.
I forget was there was a duringthe 1968 convention and
(21:21):
Democrat convention in Chicago.
There was a riot where theradicals clashed with the police
.
It was a whole thing.
But after that they became partof the the weather underground,
weather underground, theweather underground.
Yeah, they were a radicalunderground sect of essentially
extreme leftists.
They participated in bombings.
They set off bombs.
(21:42):
One of the most notorious oneswas the bomb that went off in
Greenwich Village.
That actually it was their ownsafe house where two or two or
three of their people were Ithink one was like sleeping and
two of their other people wereworking on a bomb and it blew up
the whole townhouse just likekilled them.
Dorn and Ayres were wantedpeople for a long time.
(22:05):
A lot of these people wentunderground because they were
wanted in connection with thesebombings and where they now
that's funny, you say that theyare professors in Chicago
tenured.
Yeah, almost all these radicalscame out of prison.
If they went to prison and wereimmediately hired into academia
, holy crap.
Oh yeah, burroughs does a greatjob of tracing like what
happened.
I actually wrote a book calledUnderground where I kind of
(22:26):
played with it in girl in thebox terms where, like one of the
victims of a bombing of afictional underground
organization, his father hadgotten killed in it and he
decided to take revenge byblowing up these people because
essentially what happened isthey were involved in all these
bombings.
People got hurt, people gotmaimed, people got killed.
They in most cases paid littleto no price and then, if they
(22:49):
went to prison for a few years,they came out to cushy jobs, to
academia and they taught thenext generation.
It became this sort of.
It's the roots of the wokeproblems that we have in
academia to this day, where it'slike there's an intolerance for
free speech, there's all thisanger and I've said it before, I
(23:10):
think people over assign theword wokeness to stuff when you
should really focus it on thethings that are real excesses.
Yeah, a lot of it came from thefact that people went from the
radical undergroundorganizations right in academia
and then into the seats of powerin academia.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, because then that directly feeds those kids
that we were talking about asecond ago, right?
Because you hold these peopleup as mentors and heroes and
people that you're supposed torespect and then they mold you
and that's just wow.
I didn't realize it was that.
I knew there were some of that.
(23:51):
I didn't know how deep it wentthough.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Burroughs who wrote the book.
He wrote another great onecalled Public Enemies, about the
rise of the FBI, the firstmajor crime way of the gangsters
of the 1930s.
Oh, really yeah like Bonnie andClyde and all of them.
Those two are great books but ifyou had to pick one of them,
days of Rage is just phenomenaland the interesting thing about
it to me is, I mean, it's verynuanced portraits of these folks
.
Almost all of the undergroundwas driven by the injustices
(24:19):
that were causing the civilrights movement at the time.
They chose more of the MalcolmX path.
Where it's like you're going todo violence to my people, I
will show you violence kind ofthing where it's like you can
have a little sympathy for wherethey started from, but then,
like what they started to do inthe process and the things they
did in the process, it's like,oh my gosh, what was the
author's name?
Again, it was Brian Burroughs,b-u-r-r-o-u-g-h-s.
(24:45):
Days of Rage and Public Enemies.
I think Public Enemies mightactually have been the genesis
of that Johnny Depp movie aboutwhat's his name?
Which one?
It was Public Enemies.
It had Christian Bale, as Iforget.
I forget Melvin Purvis, the FBIagent.
(25:05):
It was basically the start ofthe FBI and how they were
cracking down on these.
Dillinger, dillinger it was themovie about John Dillinger.
Really a substandard movie, butgreat book.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Okay, I gotta check these out.
I want to do a deep dive onHoover.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Oh really yeah, that one's got Public Enemies has a
pretty good intro on Hoover.
Really I'd say Days of Ragesort of glances off of him.
At the end I walked away fromPublic Enemies with almost no
respect for the FBI as aninstitution because you can see
how much of what happened Evenback then.
Those two books are kind oflike the bookends of how the FBI
(25:45):
built its reputation and thenmaintained his reputation, even
though they were utterlyclueless and in the face of what
they were dealing with andBurroughs I mean I guess you
could say maybe he, he, Ithought he had kept a pretty
impartial Tone for the most partbut it doesn't seem like he had
a lot of respect for the FBI.
But one of the things hepointed out repeatedly, and
(26:06):
public enemies especially, ishow much of the FBI mythology of
how good they are at the timecame down to Hoover Manipulating
events and manipulating thepress and kind of pumping up
their reputation.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
essentially well, so he gets mentioned a lot in.
You know, thanks to you, Ifound eight books and I've been
going back through W E B Griffinnovels again.
Yeah, and Hoover plays a fairlysignificant role.
Right, because?
Because the pretty much every,every book that I love of
Griffin's is the talking about,you know, bill Donovan starting
(26:43):
the OSSC IA and Donovan'srelationship with Hoover, which
was significant.
Actually, donovan was the one.
Donovan was supposed to be thehead of the FBI, really, but
then recommended Hoover to FDR.
Yeah, but then once Rooseveltsaid, hey, we're gonna do this
OSS thing, and before it was theOffice of Strategic Services
(27:05):
but before it was like theOffice of Information something.
Anyway, hoover didn't like it.
He was like that should be ourjob, and that's when the the
distinction between FBI isdomestic, cia is International.
That's where that whole thingcame, because of two.
What?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
happened to that distinction?
I wonder it doesn't feel likethere's as much distinction?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
anymore.
Yeah, yeah, I think we've.
I think we've definitelymuddied those water really the
last 20 years.
I think is totally thrown thatout.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Absolutely.
What was interesting about.
There's a lot of criticismafter 9-11 and some of it rested
on the shoulders of a ladynamed Jamie Gorlik.
I don't know if you ever heardthis.
No, they called it a mistressof disaster for a while, because
she was.
She wrote a memo talking abouthow there needed to be a
firewall between the FBI and theCIA and, in fairness to her,
(27:54):
she wasn't entirely wrong.
But because they built thatfirewall that Did not allow for
the sharing of information thatwould have allowed us to
attribute right the hijackers tothe appropriate motives, let's
say so.
That was one thing.
She did.
This.
The next thing she did is shemoved on to I Think it was
Goldman Sachs and wrote memoabout.
(28:17):
Wrote extensively.
I could be Misremembering I.
I know she was tied to itsomehow.
I think what happened is shewas one of the ones responsible
for saying, hey, we should getinto the subprime mortgage
business.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Oh really.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
So there's like there's like this internet
subculture where it's a meet,almost a meme, where it's like a
Jamie Gorlick's involved insomething get the fuck away from
it.
Like I think now she's a boardmember at Netflix, where it was
just like she just continuouslyfailed her way up.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Let's subscribers because of the Gorlick effect.
Yeah she's.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
She had been there for several years.
I haven't checked in on her ina few years.
I don't know.
I have a bad feeling aboutwhat's gonna happen to Netflix
in the next few years though, so, wow, I don't know if she I
don't think she has anything todo with it.
At this point, I feel that Ifeel a little bit bad for her.
Like you know, she was justhaving an upward career path
that she just got tangled up ina couple places, and, honestly,
the firewall idea between FDT,bi and CIA does not seem like
(29:14):
such a crazy idea anymore.
Like there, there should be aline between what you pursue
with your domesticcounterintelligence operation
and what you're pursuing withyour international foreign
surveillance operations, andthere's unfortunately not as
much.
I mean, it came out recentlythat Whenever the I think it's
(29:35):
the FBI Wants information on aAmerican citizen, they just go
over the British and they'relike hey, we're not allowed to
spy on this person, can you goahead and give us all you have
on it.
Brits are like sure, and thenthey need something from you
know, from a British citizen.
We just do the spine form.
It's like, no, no, that was nothow this was supposed to work,
(29:57):
but that's happened for a longtime.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, I'll tell you the other one, though the ones
that are really good at it arethe, the Israelis.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Oh, they're dynamite.
And what's more interestingthan that is there's a Private
group of X massage that runs.
I think it's called black cubeor something like that.
Oh yeah, it sounds, soundsterrible, doesn't it?
It's they.
They were working for HarveyWeinstein.
I mean, they have some veryhigh-profile clients and they'll
like run kind of prop PI, slashdirty tricks, slash Whatever
(30:27):
you need done, wealthy person.
I think I heard of them, yeah,recently, and because it's all
classified, they could be themost noble operation you've ever
known, where it's like we'll doprivate investigation work but
like morally, we're not going todo this kind of shit.
But it kind of sounds like theymight be willing to blur that
line maybe a lot.
I don't know, I'm not in thatrarefied air.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
But do you ever wish that you had your own, like
private investigator, at yourservice?
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, I mean, sometimes it'd be kind of cool
to be like I would like to knowthis about this person or this,
you know whatever.
You know what I would reallylike them more than a private
investigator is personalassistant.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Oh, oh, what.
What hold on what would you usea personal assistant?
Speaker 1 (31:10):
for?
Well, that's.
The point is that I don't haveenough for a personal assistant
to do, but it would be stufflike why don't you go ahead and
deal with this dinnerreservation for me See?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
cuz, yeah, cuz.
I've heard that at first youdon't think you need one and
then they start kind of diggingyou know, because, especially if
they're my shopping, they justthey know, so they start asking
questions.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
You're like oh, you can do that too, go pick up that
prescription cream that willsave me from, you know, itching
my face off, since it's allergicto itself.
Pick up some groceries whileyou're out there, you know.
I mean, there's just all theselittle things.
Go pick up my kids from thisthing.
I actually I would probablystill go do that myself because
I like the time I spend withthem in the process.
But you know, there's all theseother little things that I
(31:48):
would like to not have to worryabout on my day-to-day.
I had to do correspondence withKDP, which is Amazon's Kendall
direct publishing.
I'm trying to change thedescription on my very first
book, defender, and I hit thesubmit button and like, within
24 hours it changes thedescription.
If you change the verb, itwon't, wouldn't change.
(32:09):
It was locked.
It wouldn't change theDescription at all.
Like I had this whole boldprint thing about how the series
is now finished and Reviewstuff, and I'm like, okay,
what's going on with that?
And I'm corresponding back andforth with with Amazon and
they're like we don't know,we'll have technical services
look into it and get back to you.
(32:29):
And did they?
They fixed it, but they did nottell me what was wrong.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Did you, do you remember a while back?
You could either change thedescription in your KDP
dashboard or author central, andif you did it in author central
, it overrode the KDP.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
I don't know you can still do that.
I don't know that I ever didthat, but that would probably
explain it if I ever did?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
I suppose I don't know, because I know I don't
Again, I haven't thought aboutthat years, that's.
You just said it.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, I was like, yeah, I mean I Don't know if,
like what we were talking aboutfor forwards, like, oh, they
finally did bring the hatchet inand really just chain, saw out
a bunch of people from KDP andthey just had a long queue of
these are the projects we haveto deal with and there are only
five people dealing with themnow, or?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
from Everything I've heard, it is the team is getting
smaller and smaller and smaller.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yeah, yeah, cuz it took them over a week.
Yeah, and I'm, and they keptsending me emails.
I like we'll get back to you inthree business days.
And the lady ladies like I'm sosorry, we have not gotten this
taken care of yet.
We do not know.
We're still looking into it.
I'm like what happened?
Speaker 2 (33:35):
I don't know, I don't know where they're going.
Anymore, dude, I just don't.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Don't worry's me.
Yeah, I mean, I think theycould run it at a lesser you
know rate of people there, but IDon't know how much lesser.
I have a feeling that the backend of Amazon is Incredibly
complex at this point.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean because you know it'sprobably fine If you don't have
a bunch of scammy stuff going on.
Okay, but I always have a lotof scammy stuff going on and
they very seldom cared about it.
Well, exactly, but where theytry to fix it and that just
keeps them.
That keeps them super, superbusy.
Yeah, the AI stuff's beenkeeping them very busy recently.
Oh, cuz I was coming Well,because people are doing like AI
(34:18):
generated books that are likecomplete, just nothing.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Well, Lisa told me yesterday that you have to
identify now on your dashboardif it's an AI.
I created book.
I didn't even see it yetpublishing.
Yeah, no, yeah, I've got a bookto publish here soon.
And is that AI generated?
Well, um, only if I'm peopleused to say I'm clearly a robot.
So in that sense, perhaps.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Well, hey, I got a wrap early, a little bit early
today, just because I gotta goget a haircut, because I'm
feeling really scruffy you.
So any last thoughts today, getthose sideburns trimmed, you
look like oh, I know God, I keepplaying with him, going like
this.
I mean you want to just shavehim off.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
I'm gonna do the mr Burns thing.
You ever remember that episodeof the Simpsons where he has Don
Maddingly?
He's like madding.
Yes, get those sides, we'remadding.
We finally shaved like a stripacross the top of his head and
burns.
Like I told you to take out thesideburns, he's like I don't
know what you want for me, I'vegot nothing.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Oh, I forgot about that episode, so it's great.
Oh my gosh, I haven't watchedthe Simpsons in so long.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yeah, yeah, you're not missing it, it's still going
.
Yes, yeah.
I don't think that I haven'twatched an episode in years, and
they weren't very good when Ileft.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah, no, all right, well with that, we're out.
The Simpsons are out.
I.
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