A 10k iRating 14x iRacing Champion/Real MX5 Driver on a LOGITECH!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jason (00:00):
This episode is brought to you by Trophy AI, the
ultimate performance coach toolfor simracers.
I'm joined here by Jeff Smartand Cam Evan, a 14-time iRacing

(00:47):
champion in a real life MX5driver.
How's everyone doing this week?

Cam (00:53):
Well, don't I feel like the Schmuckatelli in the group?
Yeah, I'm doing great.
Thank you guys for having me.
Happy to be here.
Let's do this.
Awesome, buddy.
Welcome to the show.
Hell yeah.
Only 14 times, huh?
Only 14 times.
Work in progress.
You know, we're having to doevery time.
Yep.

Jason (01:07):
He's like, I'm working on the I'm working on number 15
right now.
That's just what I'm doing.

Cam (01:11):
So it's like patience, young Jedi.
Patience.

Jason (01:14):
Yeah, so Cam here, the legend, the the absolute legend
is here with us today, and I'mreally excited to get get this
one going.
But uh, you know, do we haveany announcements?
I don't think so.
I think we could focus on theon our special guest here.

Cam (01:30):
And I think we do have a banger of an episode today.

Jason (01:33):
Yeah.
Hell yeah.
We do have a sim industryupdate for you.
Uh, I think Jeff's gonna coverthat.

Cam (01:38):
Yeah, so super interesting news out there coming out of I
wouldn't say it's coming out ofSimicube, but it is, I guess
what we call a leak or analleged um release of a new
product from Simicube.
So we have next to no detailsother than it's super exciting,
uh, you know, because we got asimil new Simicube base coming
out.
So simicube three, um, andwe'll say it's the leak of the

(02:03):
sport ultimate and pro.
And all we know right now iswe're looking at 15, 25, and 35
newton means of Newton meters ofstrength.
So 35, that's a that's a that'sa tank there.

Jason (02:17):
Yeah, man, that's yeah.

Cam (02:19):
So um 360 watts, uh it comes with a uh the control box,
the size is pretty standard,and it comes with a 60-month
warranty.
So not much coming out or fordetails, obviously, because this
is a leak and how it got outthere.
That's another storyaltogether.
But uh those that are in themarket for this is probably an

(02:41):
upgrade from whatever you have,right?
I can't imagine there's a lotof people that are getting into
sim racing, jumping straightinto SimuCube.
If you are, hey, good for you.
Um, but I think you know, whenwe talk with SimuCube at the
expo, they identify themselvesas hey, we are the one when
somebody realizes that they'reserious about getting to sim
racing, we're the ones they lookto um as their upgrade.

(03:01):
So um if you're interested, ifyou're looking on the market
starting to become in themarket, might be a time to pump
the brakes a little bit and waitout uh until SimuCube hits the
market.
You know, you know, we don'twho knows.
We could be yeah, we don't knowwhen.
Could be winter, but if you'repatient, this could be time to
get some premier gear uh top ofline, and and you won't be in
it, you'd be pretty muchfuture-proof for a long time

(03:22):
with with this base.
Jason, anything to add?

Jason (03:25):
Yeah, I will say this.
Um it's it there's a lot ofrumors out there.
Just take it with a grain ofsalt.
Apparently, he's gonna havesome wireless connectivity with
some wheels or new or new QRsystem.
What I would do is this jointhe um Simicube 2 Discord so
that way you're up to date onnews or follow them on the

(03:46):
social platforms.
But don't forget, guys, nextmonth is or yeah, very soon from
now, from at the time of thisrecording to when it airs, uh,
we're looking at the GermanExpo, the uh Sim Racing German
Expo.
And they tend to announcethings there, you know, they
announce the the passive pedalat the American the first time,

(04:09):
the the Sim Gaming Expos or youknow, Sim Gaming Expo, yeah.
So I would I would just keepyour eyes peeled and and like
Jeff said 100% if there's anewer version of something, it
usually, usually is you know thesuperior product, especially
these bases are eight years oldalready.

(04:30):
Um so I'm I'm really uh excitedto see what Simicube uh has
under their sleeve.
So thank you so much, Jeff, forproviding that.
Um again, these are rumors, andif if something comes out
later, um we will update you.
Don't crucify us, we're a weekat a time podcast.
So now that that's out the way,let's go, my man.

(04:54):
We have a professional driverhere on the show that might not
agree what we just said aboutbases being uh having to have
the premium base to be fast.
But before we get into that,Cam, welcome to the show.
We've been wanting to get youon for a quite a while now, and
the uh the expo just kind of gotin the way, and then you had

(05:17):
mentioned to us that you wereracing, which is very important
for you to do is to keep racingand keep your career growing.
Uh, but just tell us aboutyourself, man.
Like tell us about Cam Ebon.
How you know how did you getinto sim racing?
Tell us a little about um, youknow, how'd you find it and how
how did you get 14championships, man?

(05:37):
Damn.

Cam (05:38):
Yeah, thanks, guys.
Um, so essentially whathappened is it started with just
the passion for racing, and I'msure that's how it goes for
pretty much anyone in simracing.
You start with an interest inthe general sport of it.
Um, and that was mainly becausemy grandfather raced
professionally for many years,right around the time that I was
growing up.
So I was around the track allthe time.
I live only an hour away fromRoad America, which I'm super

(05:59):
fortunate to be that close to.
So multiple visits every singleyear.
Um my father raced as well, hestill does, you know, my uncle
as well.
Like it's just such a familyaffair.
So for me, growing up at thetrack, it became an interest of
mine instantly.
But, you know, certain peoplestart racing at a pretty young
age, but you know, for me it wasa little later, and so there
was a point where, hey, I'm alittle too young to kind of be

(06:22):
on track doing real racing, butI have this passion for it and I
want a way to be able toprepare myself when that day
comes, right?
And so for that regard, like itwas basically then sim racing
caught my interest, i racingspecifically.
And uh I joined when I was 11years old, not sure if I think
that might be a little too youngto be actually done the game
technically.
But um we'll see.

(06:43):
I know you had I know you hadNim on the podcast, but let's
let's hope we yeah, Nim turntune out now, buddy.
Right.
Nim is watching, he's like,huh?
Yeah, so yeah, I started when Iwas 11 because it was a little
too early to get into go-kartsor any sort of like real life
stuff.
So it was a way to kind oflearn how to drive and learn
racecraft and understand racinglines.
And I think any of the successthat I had, especially just

(07:05):
starting out in karting, I'dattest that all to my years
spent on sim racing leading upto that.
Because I didn't start cartinguntil I was 15, and I was on
iRacing since I was 11.
And in that time frame, Ilearned so much about just
racing in general.
Like, I feel like I would havebeen a fish out of water if I
jumped straight into a go-kartwith no knowledge of even like
racing lines, racecraft,breaking zones, apexes, like
anything like that.
You know, that was all superhelpful to learn in the years

(07:27):
leading up to getting into myfirst real race.
So yeah.

Jason (07:31):
That is, you see, this is my favorite part of the show,
and I think Jeff can definitelyagree, is listening to stories
like this.
You know, um a lot of a lot ofkids growing up, you know, I I
want to respond to that.
Is they have this misconceptionthat you need to grow into
racing or you need to grow up,but you're telling me that you

(07:53):
started on a sim and then youmoved over to racing.
I know racing is in yourbloodline though, but that that
does carry some some racingspirit in you.
Um but I I have one follow-onquestion to this.
What made you choose iRacing?

Cam (08:10):
Well, you know, you're looking at the time frame of
like 2014, 2015, and I justdon't really feel like there was
many other, you know, sims thatwere really jumping forward at
that time, and I could bemistaken, but at least for
whatever reason, I had seendifferent maybe YouTube videos.
I can't really remember at thetime, but just like an amount of
iRacing content was kind ofgetting tossed at me at that

(08:32):
kind of young age.
Uh, I believe I I believe Iknew somebody at the time, like
a an older kind of mentor figureto me at the time, had an
iRacing account, and that waskind of you know being something
that was talked about when wehim and I had conversations, and
so it just for whatever reason,it was just what was presented
to me at that age.
And you know, I I personallybelieve it's still the best like

(08:53):
quality of like racing, andmainly that's because of the
amount of people on the service.
You can go into pretty much anyrace at any time and have
someone to race in, or like theMazda MX5, my you know, my
specialty series, right?
Like probably 100 entriesminimum.
Oh, dude.
Sometimes 400 five.

Jason (09:11):
It doesn't matter what time of day, where.
Um, I don't know how to drivethe MS5, right, at all.
I struggle with this car.

Cam (09:21):
A lot of people don't believe right.
Yeah, but hey, that wasbasically what kind of drew me
into iRacing is just the amountof users on the service and
knowing that you could get anauthentic racing experience.
You know, the the some of theendorsements from the real life
pros at the time also added tothat.

Jason (09:36):
And seeing, you know, the and it was presented to you,
you know.
You you saw an opportunity,like, hey, I'm 11 years old, I
can't get in the carts, so howdo I so how do I do this?
This is what I want to do.
You know, that that right thereis is what I'm trying to allude
to is like, hey, if youwhoever's watching this, this
episode, if if you have dreams,you know, we have living proof

(09:58):
right here on the show aboutsomeone that that had dreams of
racing, and and yeah, he was tooyoung to do it, but you know,
he used the sim to kind of keepthose, keep, you know, develop
the skill and then just laid iton track.
Uh it's amazing.
Amazing story.

Cam (10:14):
It's a cool story.
Hey Kev, I got a question foryou.
Can you talk to me about whenyou're 11 years old, what is
your we'll use the term airquotes, rig because you're 11.
And then talk to me about yourprogression to what it is today.
So my first rig, if you want tocall it that, was a Logitech
Wingman.

(10:34):
It's a red Logitech wheel fromlike early 2000s, I think.
Uh, just bolted onto the desk.
And then the pedals that camewith it were just a gas and a
brake, super flimsy plasticpedals.
Uh, I had that set up in mydining room, and then I had the
laptop that I was racing on.
I had it propped on top of abox and then pushed up against
like a vase paperweight thing tolike keep it in place kind of

(10:58):
super minimal.
I actually raced on a laptop.
I raced on that same laptopuntil 2019, and then I actually
got a PC, uh, but the desk rigstill stayed.
You know, I eventually upgradedto a G27, but you know, if you
ever take a look at my socialmedia, it's something that I
make sure that people know islike this is what I've been
using up until this point, andit's very surprising to certain

(11:19):
people because, like you alludedto, you know, the championships
I've been able to win and thekind of the stature I've been
able to build on iRacing, it'sall been done on a desk rig.
So progression-wise, you know,the equipment hasn't gone you
know super out of touch withjust the desk rig.
But uh, I do want to throw outthere that I have partnered with
VRS who are basicallyoverhauling all of my sim

(11:40):
equipment.
So very, very shortly I'llshout out to VRS.
Yeah, exactly.
I'll be officially removed fromthe desk racing.
And there's nothing wrong withthat, obviously, but I in my
opinion, you know, getting achance to go for some more you
know realistic and moreimmersive equipment, I think,
will you know not only help meas a driver, but also just
improve my experience becausecertain things on the Logitech,

(12:00):
you know, you don't have thesame feel.
Like I think a load cell brakepedal would be amazing because
on the Logitech it's just the uhpotentiometer or whatever that
is just basically how far youpush it and not pressure
related.
So yeah, so it's tough to beconsistent sometimes.
Uh we were talking before theshow about racing the peacup.
Like I usually don't dabble inthat because it it's it's rough
to try to master because thebraking on that is super, super

(12:21):
uh you know, finicky.

Jason (12:23):
It's very unforgiving that peacup.

Cam (12:25):
Yeah, but it's tough to try to really find that limit when
I'm but honestly, bro.

Jason (12:30):
You know, if it I just want to say this you you kind of
earn, in my opinion, you kindof earned the the right to
upgrade, if you may.
Yeah because you these arethese are things you can
actually use, you know, and andyou understand fundamental.
You you're a 14-time worldchampion on a Logitech.

Cam (12:50):
That is that sink in for that.

Jason (12:52):
That makes me feel bad.

Cam (12:53):
You don't need good expensive gear to drive fast.

Jason (12:58):
You don't need expensive stuff.
This is living proof right hereon the show.

Cam (13:01):
I think at the end of the day, in my opinion, you know,
there's certain equipment that Ithink is beneficial to have
because from a consistencystandpoint, like if you have a
load cell brake, you know,that's something I'm very eager
to try because you can reallypinpoint, hey, this is the exact
amount of pressure that Iapplied, it's easy to replicate.
But at the end of the day, Ithink it's just really what you
mesh with the most and whatyou're able to really just

(13:22):
become accustomed with.
And I think really anything ispossible from there, right?
Like it maybe if you have a badPC and you have like low frame
rate, it's hard to race and youlike lagging out all the time,
that's different.
But I think for the most part,like you hear stories, a lot of
the people on the Oval side,like in the the esports uh
Coca-Cola NASCAR series, like alot of them are still on
Logitechs.
It's just a weird, you know,type of thing where if it's what

(13:45):
you're accustomed to and you'reable to make the most out of
your time on the sim and reallyget the get the most out of your
time on track, honestly, whenyou're when you're playing
iRacing, and if that's with theLogitech or if that's with a
direct drive wheel, like youknow, so be it.
But I think it's really whatwhat you mesh with the most and
what you become accustomed with,and you know, whether you want
to upgrade and try to see if youcan accustom with something

(14:06):
else even more or not.
You know, I think that's whatit really comes down to at the
end of the day, is just you knowwhat you like and how
comfortable you feel using yourequipment.

Jason (14:14):
I would like to follow up on you with you when you do get
the gear because I'm alwaysnervous about adding gear to the
rig because I feel like itmesses with my muscle memory,
right?
Because when you get accustomedto something for so long and
you change, this happened to usat the expo.
We went to the expo.
Yeah, and I'm like, I can I candrive the hell out of this car.

(14:36):
I drive this car, I drove thiscar for 24 hours in the
Nuremberg, and then you go overthere and the pedals are not set
correctly or they're not set tomy standard, you know.
And it made me, you know, it itwas punishing, basically, you
know, humbling too.

Cam (14:51):
You're like, I'm in like a hundred fifty thousand dollar
rig, and not even touching, youknow, lap time system normal in
my own rig that's you know, aneighth of that price or a tenth
of that price.
Right.
Uh yeah, I I think for sure,without a doubt, there'll be a
learning curve.
You know, it'll be somethingnew to adjust to, just the
feeling in my hands of havingdirect drive versus just the the
uh I believe it's bell drivenor gear driven.

(15:13):
The Logitech gear driven geardriven.
Okay, got it.
Yeah, yeah.
Um so like feeling thatdifference, and of course the
the different pedals.
I think there's a learningcurve to be had, um, or sitting
in a GT cockpit rig versus uhoffice chair that rolls when I
hit the brakes sometimes, right?
Like I think there will be alearning curve for sure, but I
I'd like to imagine that youknow the sky's the limit, you

(15:35):
know, from here on out.
And so of course I'm lookingfor the city.

Jason (15:37):
No, yeah, yeah, but yeah, you'll adjust you, yeah.
You you race real cars now.
This is very different.
You you have two points ofdata, you know, it's not one.
So I tell you what, it willmake the experience a lot more
fun because the immersion isgonna strike you in a way that
that you you know it might makeyou, it might convince you a

(15:59):
little further that you're inthat you're in your car um when
you're racing.
So I'm excited for you.
Uh can't wait to hear an updateon that.
But we'll move on to the nextuh I mean I know the next
question, I know you race MX5.
Is is that the only class thatyou race, or is that the most?
Is that you know what class doyou race the most?

(16:20):
Is it just MX5?

Cam (16:22):
Yep.
So currently I race in the specMX5 class uh in the sports car
club of America.
It's technically an amateurlevel league, you know,
throughout the United States.
Um, and so that is the newestclass added to the SECA.
It's got you know six-figurecorporate backing from Mazda
Corporate, and uh they use it askind of the the scouting
grounds, you know, to scoutup-and-coming talent so they can

(16:45):
offer them scholarships.
Uh, and basically at the end ofeach year, you know, they
invite you know some of the topyoung talent that drives a Mazda
and gives them a chance tocompete for a scholarship to
then move into the professionalMX5 Cup, you know, ran through
IMSA, it's the iRacing MX5 car,you know, that that uh MX5.
And so, you know, a lot of thepeople that race in this class,
you know, that's all kind ofwhat we're working, working

(17:06):
towards is trying to get ascholarship or move into that
that pro level and really startto get that jump that our career
needs, right?
To to continue to progress upthe ranks.
So it's a super competitiveclass, lots of backing from
Mazda.
Um, and they yeah, they use itto kind of scout up and coming
talent.
And so, you know, for for me,it's been you know, Mazda
through and through.
I started before that.
I ran Spec Miata, which is anolder version of the MX5.

(17:29):
Um, and I did that for a coupleof years.
That's what I started carracing with and then moved into
Spec MX5 two years ago.
So um I've been you know kindof at that amateur level for the
time being, but you know, nextyear I have my sights set.
I'm moving into the IMSA leveland you know, starting my pro
racing career from there.
But yeah, it's only been prettymuch Mazda, you know, MX5s or
different variants of that car.

(17:49):
Um and on top of that, uh, alsoin a Miata, uh, I recently was
picked up by a local Champ CarEndurance Racing team.
Uh shout out to my friends overat Parts Badger.
Um they field two cars in theChamp Car Endurance series, and
they, you know, they saw what Iwas doing uh over on my side of
things and you know wanted me tobe a part of their program as a
fellow Wisconsinite and youknow help bring them some

(18:11):
results.
So we had our first race out atMid Ohio two weeks ago, and
then we have one uh at RoadAmerica uh about a month from
now.
So uh that's anotheropportunity to kind of take on
some endurance racing stuffversus uh sprint racing, um,
where the races are only like 30minutes instead of uh what I've
just decided to start doingnow, which are like eight hours
with with the champ car team.
So uh it's definitely a new anew challenge, but another

(18:32):
opportunity.
Um, but again, we do drive aMazda MX5 in that as well.
So I can't seem to get awayfrom the Mazdas at this point.
That's a lot of Mazda driving.
Yeah, exactly.
That's still badass though.
That is so awesome, man.
Eight-hour rip is just that'spretty cool.
Hey, so follow up to you know,you talk you talked to us about
some of your racing experience.
Um what's your best what's yourfavorite so far in your young

(18:54):
career?
What's your favorite memory ofracing real cars?
And talk to me about you knowsome of your favorite memories
racing, you know, sim racing.
You get a lot of experiencewith the 14th champions.
Give me two of your favoritememories.
So, favorite memory uh of realracing.
I would say it it for somepeople would be like a race win,
but for me, this was a reallysymbolic pole position that I

(19:15):
got.
Um, it was simultaneously thetrack record and Spec Miata at
Road America, and it's stillstanding today.
And it it it goes back manyyears to what I mentioned where
I was basically at Road Americasince I was zero years old.
There was a picture of me aslike an infant sitting on my
dad's like race car hood, likelaying there, and they snapped a
photo of me.
Like, it has been like my homeaway from home, and I've grown

(19:37):
up watching you know all myfamily members, you know, do
battle on this racetrack.
You know, my grandpa, like Isaid, raced professionally, won
national championships withSECA.
Also it's just like RoadAmerica and being you know part
of part of the environmentgrowing up there at the
racetrack, uh, has been so youknow pivotal in my growth and
just my interest in racing.
Like I basically credit it tolike all of my passion.

(19:59):
And so two years ago at anevent called the June Sprints,
it's basically the biggestamateur race of the year, aside
from our national championshiprace.
Um, and so at that event, whichthere was uh roughly 60 drivers
in my class and the spec me outof class, I got the pole
position there and it was justit was just uh, you know, to
also set the track record wasstill standing today, but it was
almost just like Okay, it wasjust something Yeah, yeah.

(20:22):
It was something just about it,you know, getting that pole
position in front of the homecrowd, in front of you know all
my family members, and also justknowing that I once was on the
other side of the fence watchingin the bleachers, you know, for
hours on end every day, justone day hoping I could be out
there racing on the real trackand to to start on pole position

(20:42):
for that race.

Jason (20:43):
Uh it just a dream come true, basically.

Cam (20:45):
Literally, yeah.
You're just leading this fieldof 60 people out on the to the
green flag, and there was nofeeling like it.
So for me, like you know, noneof my my wins, my wins are up
there too, the wins that I'vegotten are definitely good
memories, but like none of themreally packed packed the punch
like in my heart that that thatpole position did.
So I don't know, that wasprobably my favorite, my

(21:05):
favorite memory in in real liferacing, especially like being on
track like as a driver.
On the sim racing side, umthere's there's quite a few.
Um I'll say in 2024, uh, I wonthe 24 hours of Daytona.
It was the top split race inthe fourth time slot, I believe,
uh, with my friends over atParallel Racing Group.

(21:25):
Shout out to them.
Uh, we were able to get it donein the Lamborghini in the GT3
class.
Um, and so I I'd say that wasuh a bit of a a bit of a
highlight if if I'm beinghonest.
But that uh but then also thatfirst time I hit 10k i rating.

Jason (21:40):
Uh when you whoa, 10k i rating.

Cam (21:43):
Yep.

Jason (21:45):
We're gonna get in, we're gonna get into that one very
soon.

Cam (21:48):
So I'd say either when in the 24 or when it first hit 10k
i rating, because the the momentthat your i rating goes from
from four digits to five digits,nothing like yeah, 10k.

Jason (21:58):
I love it, no big.

Cam (21:58):
It was just it was a it was a crazy feeling because you
look at you know, you're sittingthere looking at the the UI and
it still says 9992 or whateverit was at the time, and then
you're just waiting for it toupdate, and then the results
come in and you see it switchesto five digits.
And uh I don't know, it wasjust a crazy feeling because you
know, lots of lot as you canimagine, lots of hard work went

(22:20):
into that.
So honestly, yeah, honestly,I'd say it's up there for the
sim racing moment betweenwinning the 24 and hitting 10k.
Um tough to say, but I don'tknow.
The I'd say the 10k was morefruitful, right?
You spend months like grinding,getting it up to that, as any
as anyone does, as anyone does,right?
And so just to see it, youknow, come true and to see you

(22:43):
know that that I don't know, itjust seems like it just kind of
taken you know my you know mysim racing uh success to like
the next level, honestly, justto have that kind of extra extra
stat added to my name.
So yeah.
Cam, I gotta follow on to thequestion.
So after you cross the line forthe Daytona, 24 hours at
Daytona with your team, I assumeyou're in your house, everybody

(23:06):
else geographically separatedfrom your team.
What happens in your house?
What happens to you?
I I do you get up and you'relike good.
Or if you be like, yeah, I'mpretty tired, I'm gonna go to
bed.
Like, what is that?
I I know what it would be forme.
Here we go.

Jason (23:25):
Here it comes.

Cam (23:26):
Uh you know, I was pretty tired.
Uh I finished the race, whichmeant I was, you know, up pretty
early.
And then we basically had asystem where one person had to
at least be like on thespotter's box when someone else
was in the car.
So like I think I was alreadyon a couple hours before that,
so maybe like 7 a.m.
I was on.

(23:46):
And then I did like thegraveyard stint from like 2 a.m.
to 4.
So I was pretty beat.
I was pretty beat.
Uh, but to finish the race wasawesome to cross the line and be
the one to really get us thereto the finish, and then you
know, doing some donuts.
And honestly, like firstpriority after that was taking
screenshots so we could post onsocials.
Um was kind of the first that'skind of the first thing.
Um, and then I I definitelywent downstairs, I I think, and

(24:09):
just let let the family know.
I believe they were up at thetime and just be like, hey, you
know, made this happen.
You know, I was keeping themposted, you know, throughout the
course of the night uh andthroughout the course of the
event.
Um, but we had been comfortablyP1 for like most of the second
half of the race, so it was kindof managing it from there.
Um, but yeah, yeah.
So I don't know.
And then I definitely went backto bed.
But it was uh Exactly.

(24:29):
I'm going to sleep, y'all.
It was definitely a mixture ofcelebrating it with the boys
that were that were still awake,if any of them, I don't
remember, and then letting thefamily know and taking some
screenshots and then hitting thesheets was kind of the turn of
events there.
But yeah, what what about you?
You said you knew what youranswer would be.
I'm dude.
I I I mean, I'd have taken myshirt off done float, you know,

(24:50):
flip around.
And I I'd have told the wifeand she'd be like, that's great,
take the trash out.
Yeah.

Jason (24:54):
You know, it's like I would have found I would have
found like a swimming poolsomewhere and just dive in it
with the suit on, do a Danny uhDanny Ricardo or something, you
know.

Cam (25:03):
Yeah, oh, but you have to remember it was January in
Wisconsin, so it wasn't.

Jason (25:07):
It don't matter, bro.

Cam (25:09):
The water's frozen, man.
I'm gonna do it.

Jason (25:12):
We're getting hurt then.
Yeah, yeah, fair enough.
Fair enough.
Touche, touche.
Oh my god.
So wow, this is insane.
I mean, our next question,right?
It it kind of backs it up alittle bit, right?
Um, when you started, when youstarted at 11 years old racing
on the simulator, um, when didyou realize that hey, I'm I'm

(25:34):
actually competitive.
I'm good, I'm I'm good enoughto race um with the big boys,
and you know, when when did thatwhen did you realize that uh as
you're you know during your iracing career?

Cam (25:48):
Yeah, it came much later than when I first started.
I really just did hosted allthe like the most insane
combinations of like hostedraces.
I'd think of just the mostobscure things.
I'd race like the VolkswagenJetta against the Lotus 79 at
like a figure eight track orsomething.
Like I I loved doing hostedraces like hosting and just like

(26:08):
you're just having fun, dude.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So like I I don't even think Igot out of rookies for the first
year just because I didn't evendo officials, maybe.
Um, and then I I I surroundedmyself with you know people that
weren't really trying to getthe most out of the sim.
I'll start with that, right?
So naturally, you know, youdon't take it as seriously.

(26:29):
And you were 11.
Correct, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, and so it was a weird thingwith like my younger self.
Like, I would almost try to belike low splits on purpose.
Um so I didn't get an actuallike great read on myself for a
little while until I basicallylet me think here.

(26:50):
Um well to put it intoperspective, I would like if I
happened to get into like a racethat wasn't like bottom split,
I would usually just leave tolike keep myself at the bottom
split.
This was like when I was like12 or 13 now.
I don't know, it was some justweird, like I don't think I was
afraid of competition, but maybeI just wanted to like pad the
stats up.
I don't really know.
Like trying to just race inthose really low splits.

(27:12):
Well then what ended uphappening is eventually, uh I
want to say probably four yearsinto iRacing, then I I was like,
you know what?
I'm just gonna actually try tobe like good at the like good
and actually try to excel in thesim, right?
Because you know, hosteds orlow split races, whatever, I was
still learning a lot aboutracing and racecraft and racing

(27:34):
lines.
And so like the lessons I waslearning were very applicable to
real life stuff, but now Iwanted to actually be someone
that was respectable on the sim,not like bottom split feeder,
right?
So um from there, uh it waslike late 2018-ish.
I was like, all right, I'm justgonna race, I'm going to get up
to uh top split if possible,but at least I'm just gonna keep

(27:57):
racing.
And if I, you know, if I godown, if I go up, whatever, I'm
just gonna race and learn andput myself up against you know
the best people that I possiblycan be put against, whether
that's just the way the splitsget ranked or I hop in a hosted
race with a better driver orsomething, just to learn and try
to become the best that I can.
And so over time, it was reallyjust surrounding myself with
faster people, racingrepetitively, and then finally

(28:18):
learning in in competitivesplits how to become a better
driver.
And so I would say early 2019,I started going like 4k, 5k-ish.
Um and so from there it wasessentially realizing hey, I can

(28:39):
start winning races.
Um back up just a little bit.

Jason (28:43):
You said you went from you went to you went up to 5k.

Cam (28:48):
Just glazed over that.

Jason (28:49):
You know how hard it did.
You know, I'm struggling tojust to get up to 3k, you know,
or or let alone 2k.
I mean, that's still, you know,I well he's just like clicking.

Cam (29:01):
Yeah, he's like, oh yeah, 5k.
Yeah, yeah.
There was uh keep going.

Jason (29:07):
I'm just I'm reacting to what I'm hearing right now.

Cam (29:09):
Yeah, there was a there was a time frame where I really
started locking in, if you will,and just um racing quite a bit
uh after school or on a snow dayor or what you what have you,
right?
Um and I was doing a lot ofracing and uh mainly was was
focusing on the MX5 at that timeand it just started w meshing

(29:32):
with me and it started takingoff.
And I don't know, somethingabout just the the way that car
behaves and the way that I wasable to mesh with it, it it was
great, and along the way I wasjust yeah, able to kind of
skyrocket.
I I remember uh early 2019there was a a week of the
production car challenge at avery random uh road course

(29:52):
called is the East version ofthe Pocono like track.
They have like a road course inthe infield there.
I was like randomly super.
Good there.
They've like never raced there.
Like it's been like six yearsnow.
The series like it has nevercome back.
But I was just grinding thatweek, I remember, and I went, I
think, like 3,000 up to 4,000 injust that one week.
And then from there it was likeyou must have been killing the

(30:15):
dude.
Yeah, it was like that.
Something, yeah.
Something about the thing.
Yeah.
Um, and then I I kind ofplateaued off at like 5k uh
because until like I mentioned,late 2019, I was just on a
laptop, and so what would end uphappening sometimes is terrible
screen freezes because this islike a pretty bad laptop that
had a really hard time runningiRacing, and so maybe I'd do

(30:39):
like 10 races really well or winfive races or something, but
then the next race I've got ascreen freeze and then I crash
into a wall because I can't seeanything, right?
And it was a couple of likethose a couple of those like
uncontrollable things, or likeor like sometimes when I was
this would be like when I wasyounger, but like my my parents
would have like a limit on theWi-Fi and I'd be in a race and

(31:01):
then it would hit midnight inthe middle of the race and it
would cut me off.
So like you know, just justsome like kind of random
somebody just went, yeah, yeah.
So just like kind of randomlike lagging out or or you know
screen freezing.
And so I ended up kind of beinglimited in that regard.

(31:21):
I'd be I'd kind of be aroundlike 5k, high 4Ks.
Um and then for Christmas 2019,uh I got a PC for the first
time, and it I was getting moreI was getting more than like 30
frames in a race.
It was amazing.
I could see I could see thingswhile driving.

Jason (31:37):
You see, Jeff, we have it too well, bro.
We got it too good over here.

Cam (31:41):
That's my reason why I'm not fast, is I have too high a
frame rate.

Jason (31:45):
It's too smooth, bro.

Cam (31:46):
Too smooth.
Um yeah, so then once I got thePC, uh, it really started to
mesh.
I I knew I could actually doraces without you know having a
screen freeze.
You know, I was loading intoraces really fast.
Uh, everything was just youknow being much smoother on me.
So from there I got to about8,000 I rating.
Uh this was 2020, um, and thenstayed like 7k, 8k range for for

(32:12):
a while.
Uh and then I had kind of likeplateaued like 8k, 7k, 6k.
Like I was kind of in aninteresting headspace where like
I had raced quite a bit, butmaybe wouldn't make the best
decisions.
And you know, honestly, there'ssomething to be said about
racing like too much, honestly.
And sometimes stuff gets inyour head or you build bad
habits.
Um, and so I was I was kind ofjust stuck like in this mental

(32:35):
block of like six to eight K Irating, which is still like
amazing, obviously, likecomparatively.
But something about like I justI knew I wanted to do more, but
I just I don't know, in myhead, in my mind, something just
wasn't letting me like be theperson that was you know smart
enough with decision making, notgetting themselves into
crashes, not self-spinning, notblowing their engine.

(32:56):
Like something in my mind justwas stopping me from doing that.
So I ended up kind of liketaking a bit of like a step
back, like a like a mentalcleanse, if you will.
Um, and that was at the sametime that like real life racing
was really starting to pick up.
I was traveling more, wasbecoming more successful,
devoting more time to that.
Um, and so then you loop aroundto 2023 is kind of where we

(33:18):
pick up, and I'm about 6.5k atthe time.
Um, and I kind of get back intolike I don't know, I get back
into eye racing, but I'm alittle bit differently
approaching it this time andjust smarter decisions and
realizing, you know, sometimesone move isn't worth it at this
spot, you know, there's manylaps to go.
So something that just clickeddifferently when I came back in

(33:40):
2023, and it kind of justoverhauled my my existence on
the sim, and then I was justmaking better decisions, being
way more consistent.
It's probably like this is kindof the the range where I took
it from you know 8k to 10k,right?
It was just a a change inmindset, and I think that's the
thing for a lot of people is ismindset things because you know,

(34:01):
if you if you think aboutthings a certain way and it's
it's to the detriment ofyourself, you know, you put
yourself in bad situations oryou just don't, you know, think
through greater picture uh oncertain scenarios, it can really
limit you.
So for me, it was kind ofcoming to coming to terms with
what I had kind of done wrong asa driver in the past and kind
of realizing what I needed to dodifferently if I wanted to kind

(34:24):
of take off from there.
So 2023 came back uh inSeptember at about 6.5k, and
mid-November I was 10k.
Um, and so that's a hell of ajump, dude.
It was a quick race.
It was a quick journey.
It was a lot of racing, don'tget it, don't get me wrong, but
just I probably raced the sameamount several years.
Oh, sorry, several years back,but it was just like completely

(34:46):
different approaches to to theracing.
And I think that's what makes adifference for people that
really end up wanting to become,you know, a high I-rating
driver, really betterthemselves, is really perfecting
the mental side of iRacing.
If you want to be kind of onthat that elite level, if you
will, or you want to be kind oflike you just covered our next
question, actually, with thatthat we were just gonna ask you.

Jason (35:07):
That is freaking awesome.
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and steering telemetry on screenwith a live review getting you

(35:29):
ready for your next big race.
Check links to Trophy AI in thedescription and also use
Shicane12 in all caps for a 12%discount.
You know, and I do agree withyou about accepting your own
stuff.
Like you have to come to termswith you may have made the wrong
decision and you have to acceptit and learn from it.

(35:50):
So I I'm just I just want tosay this, man.
11 years old to the age you'rein you're at now, dude.
You had to have a mindset, youknow, for that age, you know, a
very mature mindset.
I mean, it it's okay to be 11and have fun on the on a on a
sim.
Yeah, but then you took it to anext level like very quickly.

(36:12):
I I just have one follow-onquestion with that story.
Um, you mentioned 2020.
Was there any differences?
I wasn't on iRacing in 2020.
Was there, you know, you knowwhat happened in 2020 at the
pandemic and all this stuff.
Um, it may or may not have beenum relevant to you because you
had such a high i rating, but Iknow the service probably saw an

(36:33):
influx of people coming in.
Is there anything differentthat happened in 2020 um during
your you know career at oniRacing?

Cam (36:43):
Uh, like you said, just an influx of of new members and
just the whole simulator justgetting you know a whole new
level of of prosperity andpopularity.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Totally, totally.
Uh I'd say, you know, thereweren't many differences as far
as you know, they didn't reallyend up changing anything, just a
lot more people got onto theservice.
Um, you know, before COVID, Iwould say maybe like 100,000,

(37:07):
200,000 members on the service.
Now I think they're over amillion uh members.
I think the account numbers goup to like 1.1 million or
something.
There's you know, it's just ifyou look at it, there's those
graphs of it, you know, like theuser base before, and then like
when COVID hits, and you know,in 2020, just like straight up
super, super big, super bigtakeoff.
And I think that's where a lotof people had kind of learned
about iRacing because you know,you have real life drivers that

(37:30):
are you know not able to race inreal life, so they you know,
their series puts on an iRacingLeague.
You had the NASCAR one, you hadthe IndyCar one, I think there
was a V8 supercar one, you gotyou know F1 drivers who maybe
don't have like an officialesports series, I don't know,
but like uh as far as like theyhad real life drivers racing on
a sim.
I don't know if that reallyhappened, but I just know like I
I I I witnessed you know F1drivers hopping on iRacing just

(37:54):
to play the the SIM and just torace when they couldn't in real
life, and so it's just so muchpublicity, and people can't be
on a real racetrack, and it wasa way to you know kind of that
fancy, if you will, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it did reach out.

Jason (38:07):
And that's where all the gear came from, too.
You know, the gear came fromthose drivers that could not
make it on track.
And yeah, we still had gearhere and there, but uh the it
kind of took off after that.

Cam (38:19):
Yeah, you know, totally yeah.
I mean, I'm guilty uh ofjoining during COVID.
I remember watching TravisPastrana during the COVID doing
he he was a goofball, he's inhis helmet, his whole race is a
good thing.
Oh, I love Travis.
He's sitting there racing athis desk, shifting gears on a
screen.
I was like, what is he doing?
A couple googles.
I'm like, holy shit, and that'show I got into it.
Yeah, so I'm I mean, I'm partof that little tick up in 2020.

(38:42):
Okay, so uh I you know, youtalked a little bit about hey,
decision making is kind of whathelped you a lot.
But if you were to kind of giveone tip to or what you see the
vast majority of people of howthey could improve um or tip for
their I rating or just be abetter racer in general, you
know, being that you know youare at you know a top half of 1%

(39:04):
of the top, what do you see thethe the masses on the best way
that they could improve?
I would say, you know, realizethat most situations, whether
they're your fault or not, youknow, when it comes to an
incident, uh, you know, everyonehas a part that they play in
that situation.
Uh I I think of it as, youknow, you you want to think

(39:27):
ahead about what could transpirein a situation, and then also
realize that, like I said, youhave a part to play in it.
You know, like let's say you,you know, have a driver who's
maybe been looking a littlerisky, they're like four-tenths
back on you, you don't thinkthey're gonna dive in the next
corner, so you leave it open,right?
Even though you know they'vebeen a little risky, you'll

(39:48):
you'll open up the corner,you'll leave the inside open,
and of course they lunge it inand they crash you, right?
It's their fault.
They're the ones in the wrongfor the incident, but you could
have also maybe done somethingto like prevent that or at least
not put yourself in thatposition to be wrecked, you
know, just covering off theinside, realizing, hey, you
know, it's really just comesdown to thinking in the moment,

(40:09):
right?
Like, hey, this person islooking a little bit, a little
bit sus, they've been a littledodgy.
Maybe I'm not gonna leave theinside open, right?
Like, sure, they're at faultfor causing the crash, but at
the end of the day, like oncethe race is over, what is
yelling at them in voice chatreally do?
Like you're DNF, do you knowwhat I mean?
So you're sitting in the pits,yeah.
Right.
So there's certain things thatyou learn, and you know, for me,
I think, you know, part of itis like um I 100% this is like

(40:33):
the this is the um the theparameters that I sign up for
being at this I reading level,but like for me, you know, like
it's pretty much I have to winto gain any I reading points.
So like if I get second, Ilose, right?
So there's a lot of there's alot of thinking through
scenarios of like, okay, youknow, how can I try to defend
this win the best I can, or howcan I like minimize the losses?

(40:54):
Like I think when you have at acertain level, when you have a
lot more on the line, or atleast when there's a lot more to
lose, you think through thingsa lot more a lot more ad
advanced, or you think of them alot more ahead.
Like realizing, hey, you know,if if I don't defend here, he
might try to go for the move.
But also it's lap two, if Idefend too hard, everyone

(41:17):
catches us.
Maybe I'll let this personlead, follow them for a bit, let
us pull away, and then go forthe win later on.
You know, you you can thinkabout those things a little
differently.
And I'm not I'm not saying highhigh-rating people are the only
people who can think that way,but that is an advice that I
would say a lot of highhigh-rating people share, and
that's something that theyunderstand, and that is

(41:39):
something that I would like topass on to people that want to
know how they can improvethemselves because you know, you
look at people who just alwaysblame everyone else, and sure.
I I think I think Nim mighthave touched on this too a
little bit.
He did.

Jason (41:53):
You you know, you watched the show, you watched the uh I
did, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cam (41:57):
Of course I did.

Jason (41:58):
Yeah, thank you.
Hell yeah, we got a fan here,man.
That's what's up, man.

Cam (42:02):
Yeah, yeah.

Jason (42:02):
So that's what I was I was about to tell you.
You mentioned something verysimilar to what he did, and to
what he said, and it makessense, you know.

Cam (42:10):
You know, Jason and Cam, it's interesting, Cam, that you
brought this up because thattakes no practice.
That doesn't take any time.
You know, it's just a mentaldecision that you make.
Hey, I don't need to drive thiscar past my ability level.
Hey, I don't need to dive onthis guy.
I just need for a month, I needto make better decisions on

(42:32):
just racing.
And it always usually worksout, dude.
I mean, sorry, go ahead, Jeff.
No, you you go ahead.
I I was about done.

Jason (42:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's I was gonna like follow up with you,
Jeff, like saying it it makessense because nine times out of
ten, the times that I let thereckless guy that's doing
reckless things not necessarilylet him take the position, but
not put myself in a positionwhere I can crash him or we can

(43:02):
get into a wreck.
And sometimes they pass me, anda lap or five laps later, I see
him on the side of the road.
Like, I'm like, yeah, you know,things happen sometimes.
Um that happened to us in the24-hour race that we did.
You know, there was two guysand they were they were doing a
lot of crazy things on the onthe nords, and it we didn't let

(43:25):
up.
And if we would have let up, weprobably would have um you know
had a chance to evade whathappened in front of us and we
crashed them because it was justtoo close.
So but it's also not an easyfeat either, you know, it's not
that it's time consuming, but inmy opinion, it's not easy to be

(43:45):
disciplined that way because Idon't know.
I I think that a lot of us wantto go in there and we want to
win and we want to win.
We want to be a high I-ratingbecause if if if I can race with
other you know, higher ratingpeople, then I feel a lot more I
feel safer around them becauseI know that they struggle to get

(44:08):
there just as I struggled toget there.
And I know that they care abouttheir I rating, they're not
gonna do anything stupid, eventhough they do two stupid things
sometimes.
But it's um I agree with you,Cam though.
I'm not saying I don't.
I agree with you.
I I just think that it's thatis something that you have to
prepare your brain for, youknow, because when you're behind

(44:31):
the wheel and you're a few lapsin and you know, you're pushing
um and you're looking at deltasand all this stuff, sometimes
you're like, man, if I can pusha little harder here, and then
that little push harder gets younext to the other guy, and then
things happen, you know.
It's just race incidents, butthe 10k driver here, the 14 14

(44:55):
time champion.
Um I you know, lots of respectto you.
It's hard, man.
I I have a friend that's uh abig shout out to John.
He's part of our SRC team, andhe is that guy that um 5,000
5,000 I rating goes down to4,000, goes up to 45, goes down
to 4,000.

(45:16):
And if he's not on the poll,it's a hundred points away from
him every time or any any anylittle incident that he gets
into, it's like, oh yeah, I lost150 I rating.
And I'm like, damn, that's alot.

Cam (45:31):
Well that's wild, that's wild when he said if I don't
win, if you don't win, I ratinggoes down.
Yeah, yep, yeah, it it's a yeah,pretty, pretty rare to gain for
a second place.
Um granted, granted, you know,I'm not racing necessarily in
like the humongous GT3 level SOFraces or things where like the

(45:53):
strength of field is like 6,000,but even like in still like
it'll be you know 4,000 SOFraces or high 3,000 into 5,000
SOF, you know, in MX5 stuffmainly.
And so it's pretty rare to togain for second place just at
the level where I'm at.
Uh maybe if the person thatwins is pretty close to my I
rating, because you know, Ibelieve in the kind of the back

(46:14):
end of like the ELO system, youknow, if if the the if the
algorithm presumes that you knowthe driver I'm racing with, the
driver that beats me, right?
Like if they're pretty close tomy I rating level, you know,
the the sim obviously assumesthat we're pretty close on skill
level.
And so, you know, therefore,um, therefore, if they if they
assume that you know that we'repretty close on skill level, you

(46:35):
know, they are a little moreforgiving versus like if I lose
to someone who is like I I mean1200, let's say I lose to
someone who's 1200 I rating, andso you know, on the back end of
there where it you should notbe losing to a 1200 is what the
system says.
Right, yeah, because it it itbasically you know predicts me
going into the race as likemajor overdog, just based on I

(46:57):
rating points at least, right?
This 1200 driver could beinsane, but you know, as far as
the sim is concerned, you know,since my I rating is you know
10,000 and theirs is 1000, youknow, I should be like a major
overdog.
So to lose that is when there'sa loss.
And so just generally in theraces that I'm in, most of the
people that you know, if I loseto them, if I come in second

(47:20):
place, if I crash, right?
Like usually I'm a significantenough of an overdog in terms of
how the how the sim is kind ofperceiving it that yeah, I'll
I'll lose for for a second placefinish.
So but uh like I said, it's notsomething I'm like, oh my gosh,
my life is terrible.
I that like I completely farfrom I signed up I signed up I

(47:42):
signed up for this.
I signed up for this, right?
Like it's just like it's the Iguess it's the risk that I take
from from doing races, but it'ssomething that I completely
understand as well.
It's like, hey, this is whatI've worked towards, and this is
kind of part of it now.
I won't say it's a consequence,but it's at least a side effect
of like, hey, you know, I'vegotten to this level, and if I
want to keep growing, I I gottaI gotta win now.

Jason (48:01):
You know, that's how you have to, yeah.
You gotta be a winner, yes.
But it's gonna be a winner.

Cam (48:05):
It's what I signed up for getting to the irritating that
I'm at.
I knew it when I was workingtowards it.
I knew that it was somethingthat was going to become you
know part of it as a sideeffect, uh, would be you know
have to win more often than not.
And so not complaining aboutit, just yeah, just saying how
it is.
And so, yeah, but like to yourpoint, like it has led, you
know, to me personally, learninga lot about how to approach

(48:28):
situations better, and I thinkit applies to really anybody
because, in my opinion, youcould be maybe in a lower split,
not the top split, but if youput yourself in better
positions, better situations,stay out of trouble.
Sounds cliche, but you'llprobably advance up the ranks,
and then you know, you get intoa top split race eventually, or

(48:48):
at least a better match race.
And so you're at a at a racewhere you're maybe one of the
lower cars in the split, but youknow, you've learned a lot
about racecraft, you're able torace with better drivers and
finish these races, and soyou're getting reps, maybe
trailing at first, trailingbehind these faster drivers, and
just learning over time.
And that was the big thing forme to become proficient on the

(49:09):
sim was you know, realizing atfirst I'm not gonna be the
greatest of all time.
And I'm not I'm still not, butI'm just saying, like, at the
time goat, stop pretty close toit though.
At the time, like I I'm notgonna I'm not gonna be the goat.
I'm not the goat right now.
Like, I but there's people outhere that are better than me at
this at this at this uh you knowrace at this track or in this

(49:30):
car, whatever, right?
Like I'm going to try my bestto learn from them, hang with
them if I can.
And maybe at first, someone whowas beating you every race, you
start to kind of reel them in,you start to figure things out,
and then you know, maybe by theend of that week or something,
you can hang with them for arace, and you learn a lot from
my opinion, you know, practicalrace driving is the most

(49:54):
beneficial, in my opinion.
I don't I I close practice isgood too, like private practice,
but I think you learn the mostfrom a race scenario because
mindset is different becauseit's like heat of the moment,
but also it's much morecompetitive.
You have the environment of therace, and you're learning how
to race alongside people, how tofollow, and then you're gonna
be able to do it.

Jason (50:11):
And everybody wants to win, you know, everybody has a
goal.

Cam (50:14):
Yep, and then you can also get exposed uh sorry, exposed to
um faster drivers depending onyour split, you know.
But you know, over time, youknow, you'll start to you know
be doing these races with peopleand learning from faster
drivers, and you know, you'llbecome you know the better
driver that you strive to be, inmy opinion.
And that that's something Istand by, right?
Like I I do more official racesthan most of the people on the

(50:35):
service, or at least more thanthe average person, but I I I
attest that to a lot uh uh orsorry, I I a lot of what I
learned, I I attest to that,right?
Like doing you know a certainamount of official races and
just being involved and doingraces, even if there's some risk
that I take on, you know, I'veat this point pretty much been
in like every type of racescenario, race situation, and uh

(50:57):
I've learned how to attack, youknow, side by side into this
corner, three wide up thisstraightaway, who's gonna come
out on top into this firstbreaking zone?
Like being involved in thoserace scenarios and really
learning the racecraft issomething that comes with with
racing a lot.
And I think yeah, you learnfrom the people around you as
well.
It's just a all around alearning experience, getting you
know, getting those reps in anddoing lots of races.

Jason (51:18):
I agree.
We preached about this on theshow many times about league
racing because league racing, umyou're always racing with these
high 9Ks, 8K's, 7K's.
So you get to follow them andsee what they're doing, and and
it kind of advances that alittle.
But I have been privilegedenough to be in a top split, and

(51:40):
I'm the lowest in the field.
So if I lose the race, it's notthat big of a deal because the
service won't punish me as hardas it will for the other guys
that have the higher I rating.
Um not yet.
When I get there, I'll get I'llbe punished too.
Patience, Joe Jedi.
Yeah.

Cam (51:59):
All right, who's got the next one?
Cam, I I got the one.
Cam, so I'm gonna switch gearsa little bit um into you know
real life race racing.
Um talk, tell us how you gotinto real real racing, but then
also tell us has I sim racing ori racing helped you out, or has
it given you bad habits?
Uh does it keep you sharp?

(52:19):
You know, something like that.
So this is something that I loveto talk about um for like you
know, sim racing to real racing.
I think um, you know, itdepends what you want to get out
of it.
Um, but I'll talk about that ina second.
Uh, you know, how I got startedin real racing, like I
mentioned, was this passion thatI had, you know, growing up at
the track.
Um and the driver who or excuseme, the team owner who my

(52:42):
grandfather raced for at thetime, he had a go-kart track uh
on his property where he lived.
And one of the 4th of Julyweekends, uh before I was
actually racing at the time, uh,he had just kind of like paved
this go-kart track on hisproperty and bought some
go-karts.
And you know, I I drove themand I felt like a natural,

(53:03):
right?
And you know, I think my myparents had noticed just that,
you know, I was looking good outthere, and you know, we're
thinking, hey, he's probablygetting to go-kart age.
You know, at this time I was14, right?
Wasn't quite in go-karts yet,but you know, it was like, hey,
you know, he picked that uppretty well, kind of getting to
that age where, you know, if hewants to start racing, it makes
sense to do it.
And so, yeah, they they got mea go-kart, and uh then I started

(53:25):
racing in 2018, uh, when I was15.
And uh from there, you know,the success started started
coming in.
I won the Wisconsin StateChampionship in 2021.
Hell yeah, bro, congrats.
And uh thank you.
And then that year uh it wastime to it was time to move up
into the car into the carracing.
And you know, my father hadraced uh different forms of

(53:47):
Mazdas, whether it's an RX8 orlike a protege back in the day.
Um, and he had kind of shown methe great you know support that
Mazda provides, not only withlike the scholarship stuff and
kind of the scouting the youngertalent, but just what they do
to give back to like grassrootsdrivers that are kind of at that
amateur level.
You know, the the support isreally unmatched, they're so

(54:10):
involved with with the driversand making sure that basically
everyone is like a satisfiedcustomer racing a Mazda on
track.
There's a saying that morepeople race a Mazda on any given
weekend than any othermanufacturer.
And it really comes down tolike it really comes down to
just the way that they the waythat they treat you know their
drivers and the support thatthey have.
And so when it was kind of timeto to move up into cars, you

(54:33):
know, that made the most sensebecause you know, there's
obviously this scholarship path,but it's also just a very
supportive program and they'revery involved.
And so being a part of MazdaMotorsports and making the jump
into Spec Miata made the mostsense.
It's where a lot of the youknow greats of today uh have
started uh was in Spec Miata.
Uh it's a very popular class.
It's in the NA and the N Bversion of the Miadas, so you

(54:54):
know, pushing like 30 years oldat this point the cars are, but
it's uh as a result, you know,pretty affordable and it's very
spec, so the cars are builtalmost identical.
And so it really comes down todriver skill.
And you end up having you knowrelatively affordable cars, lots
of drivers uh that are aspiringto go somewhere or want to be
the best that they can be, andso you get competitive fields,
you know, like I mentioned, 60cars, 70 cars.

(55:17):
And so yeah, hop in spec Miataand uh moved on from karting
then.
And um, like I said, set thetrack record at Road America in
Spec Miata and then moved intoSpec MX5, which is the the uh NC
version of the Miata.
Um if you were to go on iRacingand you were to scroll down the
car list and go to the legacycars, it's the older version of
the MX5.
That's what I race right now.

(55:38):
Uh it's like the 2015 model.

Jason (55:40):
I'm gonna check that one out.
Yeah.

Cam (55:42):
So yeah, so that's a good off the car.
Yeah, of course.
So that's the exact car that Irace now with Spec MX5.
Um so you know, for me, it wasbasically just about you know
proving that I can succeed.
Uh it started in carding,right?
Proving that I can succeed, youknow, started, you know, state
championship, won some trackchampionships as well.
And then it's like, hey, youknow, it's time to start, you
know, seeking support to kind ofmove up the ranks.

(56:02):
And so, you know, my parentswere involved, but also, you
know, I partnered with uhprevious guest on your show,
Ready Set Sim, right?
Um and other partners along theway.
Shout out to Ian Stroman, RSSand partnered with people along
the way that have you knowreally gotten behind my my
mission and also you know haveresonated with with me and you
know my journey, like we've beentalking about.
And you know, personally, Ilike to kind of think of myself

(56:24):
as an advocate for like the simto reality pathway, you know, as
we talked about.
I started on on the sim, ittaught me so much, all the
skills I learned translate intoreal life racing, and I was able
to become successful relativelyquick, pick things up right
away due to sim racing.
And I think nowadays it'sbecoming even more prevalent.
There's competitions that letyou race in real life at this

(56:44):
point, right?
Like it's it's becoming so soyou know widely acknowledged now
that sim racing can be a viablepath to you know kind of
whether it's whether it'sdirectly into real racing or
even just a way to hone yourskills before you get the chance
to hop in a real race car.
So, you know, as someone whoadvocates for that, I think you
know a lot of people haveresonated with my mission, and

(57:06):
I've been able to, you know,garner support along the way to
help myself you know progress upthrough the ranks.
Um and you know, for next yearI have my sights set on uh the
IMSA ranks and to make my youknow pro racing debut for next
year.
Oh yeah, that's that's in theworks.
And so that's kind of been myjourney, and that's kind of how
it came to be, you know, whereit is now.
But if we talk about you know iracing and how it helps me in

(57:27):
real life, um I think it it goesboth ways.
It has helped me a lot, as wetalked about before, it helps me
a lot with learning racecraft.
Certain scenarios, like I'llI'll have a battle in real life
that is completely identical tosomething that happened on the
sim, and it plays out the sameway.
Like because of the fact thatthe people you're racing um are
real people and the racing isauthentic, and you know, drivers

(57:49):
aren't lagging all over theplace like uh on the not
disappearing or flying now thatyou fly in the sim.
Yeah, it's sometimes the racingis virtual as far as like the
cars and the tracks, but theactual product of what you're
doing is so real.
And so, you know, for me it hastaught me a lot about racecraft
and you know, handling thepressure of high-intensity real

(58:12):
life scenarios because you know,to a degree, some races for me
on iRacing are kind of pressureheavy, like gotta get the pole
or gotta perform or gotta try tohang on to the lead.
Ray, for sure.
So, like you know, uh gotta beconsistent when people are
breathing down your neck, likeall that stuff, right?
Like, I've learned so much fromagain repeated races, but also
just being put in thosescenarios that translate to real

(58:34):
life.
Um, I will say this vehicledynamics, and I mean this could
be limited by the fact that I'vejust been on Logitech and like
a desk setup, so it's maybe notso one-to-one, right?
Um, but for me, you know, Ithink it it depends what you
want to get out of it because Iknow real life racers that use
the sim as like a training toolto like I learn a track,

(58:54):
obviously.
Like I do that too, you know,learn a track I haven't been to,
but also they use it as a wayto maybe make it more of a
training tool versus like uh asimulator for like what it is.
Because for me, I think at acertain point when I realized
you know I was trying to becomerespectable in in sim racing,
there's just certain things withthe nature of like a simulator

(59:14):
that can't be perfect versusreal life.
There's just certain thingsthat you have to do in eye
racing to really you know getthat last little bit of speed.
And sometimes it's defyingphysics or like doing some sort
of crazy line that wouldn't workin real life because the curbs
are like scanned differently, orcertain things aren't simulated
like they would happen in reallife, just you know, things like

(59:35):
that.
And I think sometimes I canupset people that are you know
real life racers switching tosim racing and they're like, oh,
that that wouldn't happen inreal life.
That's frustrating.
I think at a certain point forme, I had to disconnect myself
from like, hey, you know, thisis the sim and this is real
life, and some of the stuff Ilearned on the sim as far as you
know, racecraft and you knowthinking and positioning and

(59:57):
things like that, thattranslates to real life.
But

Jason (01:00:00):
And the track too, the right?
The track should shouldtranslate.

Cam (01:00:03):
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, yeah, totally, totally.
But sometimes the with thevehicle dynamics and and you
know some of the things you haveto do to be you know fast in
the sim, um, I think you kind ofhave to disconnect it from like
its real life counterpartsometimes.
Or even uh in like the opensetup stuff when you're tuning
the setup, you know, some of thestuff you do on the sim to make
a fast setup wouldn't work inreal life.

(01:00:24):
So there's a few things, uh,but also it depends what you
want to get out of it, right?
Like for me, uh I take them astwo different things.
I want to be good in the sim,and so I realize that, hey, you
know, I'm just gonna I'm justI'm gonna be cognizant of the
fact that this stuff might notnecessarily work in real life,
um, but it's what works in thesim, and that's that's what it

(01:00:45):
is.
But if you want to use it as atraining tool, maybe you race
with a realistic setup thatmimics your exact real life
setup, or something where you'renot necessarily trying to be
the best eye racing driver youcan be, you want it to be a
trainer for real life.
So I think it goes both ways.
But uh 100% to recap, yeah, forsure.
Learning tracks that I've neverbeen to, obviously laser scan
down to the millimeter, likethose are always perfect,

(01:01:07):
hopping into them for real life,and then all the racecraft
scenarios and and racing lines,um, and the things that don't so
much depend on like the carphysics, but more so like just
racing principles.
And those things, iRacing isgreat for hitting home.
Um, but you know, who's to say,you know, I won't become more
immersed or feel more of thatone-to-one connection when I hop

(01:01:27):
on this new VRS simulator.
And so, you know, only timewill tell in that regard.
Okay.
All right.
Well, I can't that's an awesomeresponse.
It just good great feedback foreverybody, you know, real
racers and sim racers.
But then I'm super curious tosee what you think about your uh
once you get some seat time inthe new rig.

Jason (01:01:45):
I I I mean, I honestly think that I don't know.
I have a lot of respect thatyou actually mentioned what you
just mentioned about it therebeing certain things that you
can get away with on the sim andbeing realistic about it.
And you know, you can't do thaton a track, and there's a lot
of things, or vice versa, right?

(01:02:06):
Because the tire model iniRacing is not perfect either,
you know.
It's currently the best wehave, in my opinion.
Um, but it's not one-to-one,it's not perfect.
Um I think either way you'regaining, bro, because if you've
never been to a track, you canalways run iRacing and see see
where, get an idea where thebreaking points are or how the

(01:02:29):
track bends, and then when yougo to it, it's not a surprise.
You know what I mean?
For sure.

Cam (01:02:34):
For sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you know, at the end of theday, like you said, it's not
perfect, like it's superaccurate and it's great for for
what it is.
And uh it's you know, the themain sim that I've raced on
ever, right?
Like I've dabbled in others,but there's a reason that I
stick to iRacing, and it'sbecause just the end product
that we experience is, in myopinion, second to none.
And so it's it's it's amazing,but it it is not perfect.

(01:02:55):
And so, yeah, it's just certainthings, like you said, don't
always correlate, but that'sjust the nature of it.
Just you know, at the end ofthe day, it's an online
simulator that doesn'tnecessarily always replicate
real life, but they they trytheir best and they they do a
very good job, but certainthings just don't quite add up,
and you just kind of take thatinto account when you're
considering what you want to getout of it.

Jason (01:03:15):
Okay, and I do have like kind of like a bonus question
here.
Um, is i racing like the onlysim that you've tried, you know,
because we we've only mentionedi racing here, and you know, I
I understand you started racingat 11 and then you moved over to
karting and then you got intothe pro driving.

(01:03:36):
But have you ever had like Idon't know, like have you ever
tried the other sims like ACC,AMS, uh too?

Cam (01:03:43):
Or yeah, so I did uh normal Asetto Corsa, try that out uh a
little bit.

Jason (01:03:48):
Oh yeah, um did some race room as well.

Cam (01:03:51):
I think for me, uh on top of the fact that iRacing just
has such uh a popular user baseand you can always get in a race
with somebody, like that wasthe thing with race room, you
know, like it it follows asimilar like rating system, and
you kind of have something thatyou're working towards, but at
the same time, you know, you'relucky to be in a race with three
people on the whole service ifyou're lucky.
So uh, you know, for me thatwasn't the most enticing, and I

(01:04:13):
said, of course, I man, just uhI've had some bad experiences
just doing those races, like umeveryone piles into turn one
Monza and F1 car and somethinglike that.
Like, I don't know, justsomething about it.
Just I I tried out otherthings, and you know, they they
are what they are, but it justfor me I mesh better with with
iRacing, and um I I am acompetitive person and I always

(01:04:36):
like having something to kind ofstrive towards.
And I think the fact that therating system, uh uh i rating
specifically, I think issomething that brings a lot of
people in, and myself included.
It it's like you're you'realways working towards
something, and not always, likepeople don't have to be racing
for i rating by any means, butit at least attaches something
to what you're doing, you knowwhat I mean?

Jason (01:04:55):
Right.
And and to me, i rating is kindof like your career because a
lot of people view it as oh,it's just a number and you're
just trying to show off, butit's not, it's it's it's a
symbolic number thatdemonstrates what I've been
through and what I'm strivingfor, you know, and that's
something that no other simreally has.

(01:05:17):
I mean, they don't really haveit like that.
They'll they'll give you somesort of number or like a gold or
you know what I mean, some sortof tier, uh tier one, tier two,
but i rating is very, very,very punishing when you when you
don't do well or when you messsomething up.

Cam (01:05:38):
Unapologetically harsh.

Jason (01:05:39):
Dude, you can per kit per nim.
Just last month I was a 499safety rating, and that went all
the way down to like a 2.0, andit wasn't technically my fault.
But then, like you said before,you know, if if I would have
thought about things a littledifferently, maybe I wouldn't
have been in that situation tobegin with, or invite the

(01:06:01):
situation to happen.
So I think that you know, Iwe're not we're not an iRacing
podcast, I've always said it.
Um we just it just happens tobe the best option in my in our
in my opinion right now forsomeone that wants to be
competitive, wants to have fun,and wants to learn skills that
translate in real life and toother sims as well, not just

(01:06:25):
real life.
So I think we got one more foryou, Cam.
I I'm um don't want to let yougo.
This is uh this is awesome.

Cam (01:06:34):
You know, I you know the feedback has been precedented,
right?
Of just how to look at yourrate, your your officials.
So, Cam, you know, to close itup here, we ask a lot of our
guests here this because we'revery, you know, Sim Racing's
near dear to our heart, butwhere do you see for for
somebody that's been in it farlonger than I have, where do you

(01:06:54):
see Sim Racing going in thenext two to three years?
Well, before I answer where SimRacing is going, let me just
plug in my laptop because that'swhere I'm going for the moment.
All right, so we got that in.

Jason (01:07:04):
And now wait a minute, is this the same laptop from a uh
28?
What was it when you was 11?
Is this the 2018?
21 or so?

Cam (01:07:11):
It is not the same one.

Jason (01:07:12):
No, we were on the like in a trophy cage or something
like that.
Honestly, it should be atiRacing Headquarters.

Cam (01:07:19):
Yeah, uh or or the Logitech wheel that I've been that I've
been running on for a couple ofyears ago.
That should be at iRacingHeadquarters, that'd be awesome.

Jason (01:07:29):
Yeah, yeah.

Cam (01:07:30):
Um, so where do I see sim racing?
So I I think it's just gonnacontinue to grow in popularity.
Maybe some some more titlesenter into the into the sim
industry, right, and kind of getinvolved, and drivers want to
give it a try.
Um, but I I see it justcontinuing to grow in popularity
and people continuing to giveit the respect it deserves as a
way to to grow your your skillset, whether you want to become

(01:07:53):
a real life driver or not.
You know, it's a great way tojust become a better driver and
you know learn so many greatthings and meet amazing people.
Like a lot of the people thatI've met uh that have you know
maybe gone on to be you knowreal life competitors one day or
the other, like maybe I metthem first on the sim, or just
some of my best friends that Ithat I talk to the most

(01:08:13):
frequently are uh are throughthe sim, and that you know, I'm
sure we can all relate to that,right?
Like it's a great place tolearn and continue to build a
community and and find you knowlike-minded people.
And so I think you know,through you know, we've got the
the Sim Gaming Expo in Chicagoand you know, just more expos
taking place.
I know, I know the um just uhthe Sim Racing Expo is coming to

(01:08:33):
Charlotte next year as well.
Like the expansion of touchpoints for people to become
interested in a range ofdemographics is gonna just
continue to help sim racing growand just get more people
involved.
And just if you're someonelooking to get into real racing
or you maybe can't, but you wantto because you have the
passion, but maybe not thefunding or the means to do it.

(01:08:54):
Maybe you're in a place wherethere's no racetracks local to
you, like there's gonna beavenues aplenty coming very,
very soon.
And so I think it's just gonnabe something where it continues
to grow and it continues to kindof manifest itself into its
real life counterpart in a way,and whether that's what you want
to get out of it or not, I meanthere's still gonna be so many
great opportunities as thisseries continues to grow, maybe

(01:09:16):
more competitions or or youknow, more people that just
share the passion.
And so, yeah, I just thinkyeah, just a growth in
popularity totally, and just somany more great things to come.
Uh more products, like youmentioned, you know, we've
gotten a lot of gears since theCOVID spike, and it's just gonna
keep growing like that.
And people are gonna get closerand closer to realism as well.
I think that's something thatwe can't shy away from.

(01:09:37):
You know, there's been so manydifferent products beliefs.

Jason (01:09:44):
When you first put your hands on a direct drive, maybe
some active pedals, maybe somemotion.
I don't know.
Yeah, you know, I I I will Iwill follow up with with um with
your closing thoughts here onthe you know where the hobby is
headed.
And I always like to say thatit's kind of unfortunate that it
took this long for sim racingto develop itself, because think

(01:10:06):
about the many talents that youknow that could couldn't have
that didn't have the means to gokarting or racing and anything
like that.
And just just think about howmany legends we let go because
racing is so locked down, youknow, closed down.
I mean, you know, this is theShekane podcast and Lance

(01:10:27):
Stroll.
Um I he he shouldn't be racing,man.
I'll tell you, Jeff.
Lance Stroll, come on, man.

Cam (01:10:33):
How many Lewis Hamilton slipped through their cracks?
Or they could have been racingif they had you know totally.
Yeah, that's uh I I've heardthat saying quite a bit.
Like they're the next LewisHamilton will not ever be able
to actually race, or or someonebetter than Max Rush Steven will
never have the chance toactually race because they
haven't had the means.
And so I think sim racing givespeople the means, whether you

(01:10:56):
know they end up with the water.

Jason (01:10:57):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's what I was alluding to
with Lance, because Lance is amulti, what is he, a
millionaire, right?

Cam (01:11:03):
With his dad and everything, his dad's a
cajillionaire, yeah.

Jason (01:11:05):
Yeah, so then what is it to the underdog that's probably
faster than all of them, butcan't afford it?
You know, and now we're finallyat a spot, finally in a time
frame where people are startingto take it serious, and they're
not looking at it as a game,they're looking at it as a sim.
Yeah.
So and and you guys totallymissed my joke on Lance Stroll.

(01:11:27):
It was a bash to him, but it'sokay.

Cam (01:11:29):
Oh, I got it.
It's gotta be embarrassing forthat guy to even like walk
through the F2 pits, but likeall those dudes would mop him.
I don't know if that'saccurate, but I think No, we
don't know.

Jason (01:11:39):
Yeah, we're just kidding.
So yeah, anyway.
Um, Cam, uh wow, what a hell ofa story, dude.
Um, I got a lot of respect foryour persona too.
I think your head's in theright place.
I think um I think you're gonnado great things with with with
uh with the Emza thing and thepro thing, and I think that

(01:11:59):
you're you're on your way, dude.
Honestly, you you've had asteady incline in your career,
uh as you as you told the storyhas been nothing but a steady
incline.
You know, I mean it's amazing.
I love hearing stories.
This is the best.
These are the these are myfavorite shows of the podcast.
And this is kind of why thepodcast is uh the podcast, you

(01:12:21):
know, exists.
You know, it's the many peoplewe've met on the show, the many
friends we've made on the show.
And when we went to the SimGaming Expo, we all got to get
together and it was amazing.
It was like a family overthere.
Um I'm not trying to go projust yet.

Cam (01:12:37):
You know, can I add a little bit?
But go ahead, Jerry.
Yeah, go ahead.
I think we used a term on thelast show um talking about how
we went to the Sim Gaming Expo,and then at night we went to the
you know the Sim Racing Bar.
We thought out the term sickos,you know, just that those that
take it enough.
You know, in in the the nicestway possible.
Cam, a dude that grinds it outthe sim, and then on the weekend

(01:13:02):
goes out and races the same caron the racetrack, dude.
In the nicest way possible,you're a sicko.
You're a sicko, bro.
You're one of us.
I'll take that as a count.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, you should.
Yes, I should.

Jason (01:13:12):
You're one of us.
You're one of us.
Yeah, and you know, beforewe're one of you.
No, we're not, bro.
We're not near nowhere near10K, bro.
I don't know.
This guy's an alien status.
Um, first alien on the show.
That's how it is.
Yeah.
But uh I we we were talkingearlier before we started the
the interview, uh, before thepodcast, and I was like, man,

(01:13:35):
you should have gone to Chicago.
I know you couldn't make it,but it, you know, it's it's
George has big plans for nextyear, so maybe maybe we can do
something next year.
But you know, we Potato Nation,shout out again to LD, um,
Lawrence DeSouza and his squadof Potato Nation.
They showed up to the to thesim racing bar, and that's what

(01:13:56):
we were racing was MX5s on theNerba Green.
And we were streaming it allover the place.
Good thing you weren't therebecause you probably would have
uh I know would have mockedthem.
He would be like, Oh, you guysrace MX5s, huh?
Okay.
You'd be out there like, yeah,oh, okay.
I think I know I think I knowthat car.
Yeah, that's kind of fun.

Cam (01:14:15):
Maybe maybe next year, guys.
You know, we'll we'll see younext time.
We wish you the best.
Yeah, thank you so much.
Thanks for having me, guys.
Appreciate all the kind wordsand the you know, the chance to
share my platform and share, youknow, what what my journey has
been and what I stand for.
And you know, I I love to to bea part of this.
So yeah, thank you guys somuch.
You're a good dude, man.
We wish you the absolute best.
Hell yeah, man.

Jason (01:14:34):
So that's gonna conclude our interview.
I don't think we have any uhfollow-ons after this.
Um so Jeff, any final, anyfinal words before we let them
go?

Cam (01:14:46):
Uh, you know, I I think Cam would ex you know lives this,
but drive fast and break late,everybody.

Jason (01:14:52):
There you go.
All right, Cam.
Um, yeah, man, uh huge fan.
Um, you know, fellow RSS uh umambassador, promoter, creator,
you know, all the above.
Uh, I think that uh yeah, man,I I I want to see you succeed.
I want you to continue tosucceed, and um everybody, I'll

(01:15:13):
leave links to all Cam's socialmedia.
Go ahead and support them, goahead and check them out.
Um, and yeah, it's been anabsolute pleasure to have uh
another real life driver andgive your opinion.
Your opinion means a lot to theShikane podcast because the
Shikane podcast is for the SimRacer, the community.
Doesn't matter if you'rehigh-end, doesn't matter if

(01:15:33):
you're low budget, doesn'tmatter what.
And we have proof here ofsomeone using a G29 and probably
smoke me on track with a CIBQ.
So, um, and with that, um,thank you so much, everybody,
and uh Cam again, uh highlyregarded tier, how high regards
here.
So thank you so much for givingus the time.

(01:15:56):
The honor is all ours, and toall you viewers and listeners
out there, have a great start ofyour week.
Thank you.

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