Episode Transcript
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Jason (00:34):
This episode is brought
to you by Trophyai.
We discuss all things in thesim racing world.
I'm your host, jason Rivera,and I'm joined here by Mr Eric
Kelly, jeff Smart and a very,very special guest, mr Nim Cross
, the iRacing Chief Steward foriRacing.
How's everyone doing this week?
Nim (00:55):
Good, good to see you guys,
dude, we have sim racing
royalty in the studio today.
Jason (01:00):
gentlemen, Everybody's on
their best behavior.
I'm telling you, man, I feellike.
Nim (01:05):
I get into the church by
this.
Jason (01:16):
It's coming on the show
today.
Gentlemen, everybody's on theirbest.
I'm telling you, man, I feellike I get into this big name.
Cross what's up.
Man, thank you so much formaking the time to come on this.
You came podcast.
I know you found us via the24-hour nerberg and once you
mentioned who you were, I almostcrashed.
How are you doing this week?
Nim (01:27):
man, I don't think I
mentioned who I was, but
somebody found me out and calledme out.
It's good to see you guys.
I'm doing great Middle ofsummer, lots of races we've been
going to and we're lookingforward to going to some more.
But yeah, I saw you guys at theNurburgrburg ring.
I just like to uh, you know,tool around and see what's going
on and check everybody out, andI happen to uh, you know, crash
(01:51):
upon your screen and you guyslook like you were having a lot
of fun.
So you kind of hooked me in andI got to watch.
You guys do the 24 hours maybea little too much fun.
Jason (02:00):
Well, that's great man.
Thanks for allowing the time,eric.
Jeff, how was your week?
Guys, how was it going?
Jeff, welcome back to the show,by the way.
Welcome back.
Jeff (02:09):
Good to be back.
Missed you guys.
Erick (02:11):
Yeah, man, we missed you
too.
Man, my week was good.
We just passed the 4th of JulyA lot of sun, a lot of barbecue
probably too much barbecue had agreat time with the family.
Family can't complain.
Um.
I did want to do a specialshout out, though.
Um, I came across a stream ofsome guys that watch our podcast
and they were super supportivewith sharing our links and stuff
(02:36):
um rsr, the real sim racingsquad.
When it's out and eric b as well.
Man, they I mean as soon as Ilike just popped into their
little stream, you know, andit's not a little at all.
But as soon as I pop into thestream, I said something and
they were like wait a minute,are you Eric from the Sicanion
podcast?
We watched that and I'm like oh, that's a good feeling.
(02:56):
This is wild.
Yeah, we watch every week.
I'm like hey, man, I appreciatethat.
Man, you guys are good people.
Yeah, we appreciate that.
Jason (03:03):
Yeah, and now we got an
official steward.
So you know, we got to becareful what we say about
iRacing.
Earlier I was talking about theUI.
Erick (03:10):
Yeah, man Got to watch my
mouth, man.
Nim (03:12):
But, jeff, I don't see how
it's possible to say anything
bad about it, Jeff.
Jason (03:18):
welcome back to the show,
brother.
How was your week?
How was your?
Jeff (03:22):
time off, man, it was good
.
So I went to travel back to theEast Coast, saw a buddy retire
from the military, which wasgreat, and just a data point.
I did see the F1 movie.
Go see it.
It's awesome.
There's F1 scenes, there's GT3scene, racing scenes.
Go see it.
That's all I got to say.
They do talk about sim racingfor about that long, but they do
(03:44):
, but they do, but they threw itin there they threw it in there
.
That's all I got today.
I'm ready to get back in withyou boys.
I missed you guys hell yeah.
Jason (03:51):
So today we have a new
segment and it's going to be
called the sim industry newsupdate, presented by ready set
sim, and the first one.
I'm going to hand this over toJeff to make our first news
update announcement.
That's critical, actually.
It's actually blowing up on theinternet right now, at the time
(04:12):
of this recording.
So, jeff, if you may, please,yeah, absolutely.
Jeff (04:18):
Today's SimDistry
announcement is here.
George, who's running the showat the SimGaming Expo?
Posted today and this is ifyou're looking for any
additional information.
Uh, it's on their facebook.
You know all socials prettymuch updated here, but I just
want to walk through it here.
They're excited to announce theunveiling of the sim gaming
expo challenge surprise seriespresented by simi cube.
The official sim racingtournament of the sim gaming
(04:41):
expo.
It's a multi-stage competitionkicks off with a time attack on
yours truly iRacing from the14th to the 28th of july.
Top 75 drivers will qualify foronline qualifiers on august 9th
, for there they'll get to the30 finalists that they will be
in a live championship eventhappening at the convention
(05:04):
center during the sim racingexpo on the 6th and 7th of
september.
All racers will be using theporsche gt3 or 911 gt3 with
setups provided by the maconisetup shop.
Online qualifiers will bebroadcasted by race spot, while
the in-person tournament will beproduced, obviously, by their
production team in-house.
So, dudes, this is awesome,super cool announcement here
(05:30):
from George, who continues tomake this event somehow cooler
and cooler.
Every time I log on, basicallyto Facebook, he has another
update.
But if you want more info onthis challenge here I am putting
, if there's any entry fee, Igot jason's, I'm, I'm, I'm
riding that horse, uh, he's myfavorite, uh, to win the thing.
(05:51):
So, uh, yeah, go find theirsocial media sim gaming expo um,
if you want some more info andagain, they got the early um
early 10 at checkout or give thechicane uh podcast.
Uh, we got our discount codefor you guys to get 10 too.
So keep going, george, keepcrushing it.
Don't don't forget to sleephere and there.
Chicane uh podcast uh, we gotour discount code for you guys
to get 10 too.
So keep going, george, keepcrushing it, don't don't forget
to sleep here and there chicane,10 guys still active and we are
(06:12):
less than 60 days from thisevent.
Jason (06:14):
So I mean, we, we want to
get to our guest here.
But I tell you now, uh, thetime to the time to act is fast
and now, and if you're thinkingabout it, you need to make a
decision now, because spaces aregoing to fill up.
It's going to get expensive tofind a place to stay over there.
I just, if you have thoughtsabout going, just let us know.
(06:37):
Send us an email atthechicanepodcast at gmailcom If
you feel like going, if you,you know, if you're kind of
undecided, let me know.
We might be able to dosomething for you.
So, and with that, we have thechief steward.
I like calling him chief, buthe he corrected me right before
(06:59):
uh, hitting a go button.
But the chief steward foriRacing is in our studio, which
is unbelievable, unbelievable.
So we're gonna go ahead andaddress him very quickly with.
The first question is what'syou know?
Tell us about your sim racingjourney there?
(07:20):
Dim Cross?
Nim (07:22):
oh man, I know it's
probably, it's a lot I'll give
you the short version and youguys can ask anything.
But uh, I started off as ayoung lad and and there were no
computers or anything like that.
So I started making board gamesand I just love racing and I
love gaming and back in the day,you know there were some few
(07:47):
little racing games that cameout, like 2D games and stuff
like that, and you know I washooked on that, just dreaming of
bigger and better things.
You know, I wanted somethingthat I could simulate racing on
and I wanted to have a career.
I knew I wasn't going to do itin real life so you know I this
was the best outlet for it tohappen and I got involved in a
(08:08):
bunch of racing games.
The best one that came alongwas the Indy 500 by Papyrus and
played that, enjoyed that.
That was basically the firstforte in the computers.
You know, I got my firstcomputer back then and this was
like 1989 or something like that, when Papyrus put out the first
(08:31):
NASCAR game.
I was lit.
I was just I would go to work,come home and play that game
While I was at work.
I would find times on my breakto call Papyrus and say, look,
we need to fix this, we need todo this.
And they finally put me on thebeta team and the beta testing
(08:52):
team and back then it was a loteasier to make contacts.
You know I would, I would getthe phone number of somebody and
I would call him up.
And there was this guy thatworked at Papyrus called Matt
Santel.
He was a great, great guy guy,he's won the team and I would
call him up and just starttalking to him about all kinds
of things we could fix and workon things like that.
And, uh, he, they, eventually,after a couple years, you know
(09:14):
me working and testing and doingstuff like that for beta
testing.
You know they, they allowed meto use some of their tools to
actually help improve the gameand, uh, I created a whole AI
thing called it NIMS AI and uh,put it, put it on the, put it on
the internet, um, with theirpermission, obviously, and
(09:36):
people downloaded it and wasable to have a better experience
racing AI offline.
And about that time, uh, thewhole Hawaii thing started and
hawaii was the beta platform forthe first online racing um type
thing, and we would all dial upand uh race each other over the
phone at 10 cents a minute, youknow, and uh people would have
(09:58):
thousand dollar phone bills atthe end of the month, 10 cents a
minute.
It was crazy.
Uh did all that and uh, Ihelped papyrus do a lot of
promotional stuff, did magazineinterviews and uh, I have one
magazine that has my picturewith uh next to bobby labonte,
like, uh, you could be a racingstar online with and just race
(10:19):
just like bobby labonte and uh,you know, and and did all kinds
of different things with that.
Then uh, you know, just helpedalong with a bunch of different
games.
I found myself working for acouple other gaming companies,
gaining experience and thingslike that.
And uh, to jump a little bithere, I eventually I made my own
role-playing uh game outside oflike papyrus's nascar 2002, and
(10:46):
I made a role-playing gamewhere you had owners and drivers
and a driver couldn't drive acar unless he was hired by an
owner.
Owners had all budgets, theyhad all kinds of things.
We had magazines, we had awhole environment that was
outside of the game and on thiswebsite and it made people feel
like they were race car driversand owners.
(11:07):
We had people playing the gameas owners who didn't even own
the game and who had no racingexperience at all.
And we would race inside, wewould qualify on Sunday nights,
we would line everybody up onpit road and it was just like
real life.
You know, you had to line up onpit road and you sat there and
there were 40 cars and theyqualified for 32 spots and if
(11:29):
you didn't make the show, yourowner was not going to be happy
and you were going to get fired.
And so you're sitting there.
You're sitting there with thecars driving around the track,
you hear the motors going by andyou're just sitting there.
The pressure's building by andyou're just something that the
pressure is building up.
And the pressure is building upand it's your time to go out in
the track and you do something.
You wreck the car and theowner's now got to pay for all
the damages on your car.
(11:49):
You know we had guys, we hadprograms that went through and
calculated each part of thecar's damage the gene moment the
owner had.
Jeff (11:56):
The owner had to pay for
all that.
Nim (11:58):
If you didn't make the race
, it was, you know bad news.
And plus two, every everybodygot fired at the end of the
season.
So all the drivers, so ownersgot the bid on their drivers.
The owners got the bid ofsalary on their drivers, so you
may have gotten hired by anowner for 90k per race and the
race only paid 100k to win.
You know so you're in bigtrouble.
(12:19):
If you didn't do very well, youknow so it was.
It was that whole type ofenvironment.
Uh, you officiating.
Somebody cussed out somebody,they would get fined.
Drivers, drivers got all kindsof fines and you know, it was
just and if a driver, if anowner fired a driver through the
week and this is back, you knowthe early 2000s.
So we communicated throughemail.
Um, and if a driver got fired,you would get an email.
(12:43):
Everybody in the league wouldget an email saying so-and-so
got fired.
And then there's an opening,and then that would produce a
frenzy for all these driversthat didn't have rides yet to be
emailing that owner to try toget a ride.
You know, and it was just yeah,it was just really.
It was a really coolenvironment.
It was very intense, veryrealistic and, luckily for me,
(13:09):
john Henry, who is the owner ofiRacing, owner of Fenway Sports
Group and the Red Sox and thingslike that, he saw what I was
doing and he contacted me and hetold me that I was at the
pinnacle of sim racing at thattime and what we what we were
doing and, uh, we talked for along time and he eventually
asked me to come work for thecompany that he would be
(13:30):
starting in a year or so fromthen, which would be called
iRacing.
Jason (13:34):
eventually, wow, dude,
that's amazing history dude what
a story, okay, that's got to bethe best story I've ever heard
here on the show most of usstarted in cove.
You need to make.
Jeff (13:49):
You need to.
You need to redo this, but likelive stream it all so we can,
like I would watch it on like atuesday night.
You can write a book about this, bro, and just watch the it all
unfold in front of you with acocktail I just tried to give
you the.
Nim (14:05):
It was so much more.
Jason (14:08):
It was so.
It was a lot you know, oh yeah.
Nim (14:10):
And you know, I was just
I'm very blessed very lucky.
I just happened to be doingsomething I love to do.
I wanted to have a real racingexperience, and everything that
I did was incredibly selfishlyfor me.
Luckily, other people got toplay it.
Erick (14:26):
Other people got to do it
.
Nim (14:27):
I did everything because
this is what I wanted in sim
racing.
I wanted to experience racingand the only way that I could do
it was to create this thing.
I talked about this.
We're sitting around thecampfire at Summit Point at
night after watching the racesand stuff like that.
We were drinking beers orwhatever, and there were some
(14:48):
sim racing buddies sittingaround the fire and I'd be like,
hey, I have this idea.
What do you guys think aboutlining up on pit road and
qualifying?
And they were like you're nutsman, nobody's going to want to
do that.
And I'm like I don't know whatabout people being owners.
They were like no, who's goingto want to be an owner and not
drive?
And I actually thought on itand had everything in my mind.
(15:09):
I would not sleep at nightthinking about it, but I had
everything going in my mind fora year before I actually started
.
And it came together reallywell.
Jason (15:18):
That's insane, bro.
I'm speechless right now.
I don't even know how to moveon from that.
Nim (15:25):
Like I said, very, very
blessed, very lucky, got to
start with iRacing.
When I started with iRacing Iran QA and we did a lot of
testing, a lot of conceptualideas with John and the rating
stuff and how things would work.
You know, for the longestperiod of time, you know, they
(15:46):
started building that iRacingand then when we went live um,
that is when I took over thechief steward role wow bro yeah,
the chief steward for a minutenow, then 2008, I think we went
live and that's when, when I uh,I started doing that.
Jason (16:05):
So he's been the chief
steward since inception.
Jeff (16:08):
Single-digit employee at
iRacing he is number one.
Nim (16:13):
He is 001.
I would say number four.
Let's say number four, numberfour.
Jeff (16:17):
Being modest?
Yeah, we don't want.
He's got a good parking spot.
I do have a good parking spot.
Yeah, he does.
Erick (16:27):
Yeah, that's awesome man.
Jason (16:29):
All right, yeah, go ahead
, eric.
Erick (16:32):
Yeah, so, man, I can only
imagine the stories because
just thinking about that timeframe.
But I'm going to try to stayfocused on the question, I'll
give you one.
Nim (16:43):
Here's a story for you.
Jeff (16:44):
Yeah, let's hear it.
Nim (16:46):
Our first offices.
Right, Very small office, maybesix or seven offices, and you
all know who Dave Kemmerer is.
Obviously we're sitting in theoffice and they're thinking of
the name for the company.
What are we going to be called?
We're battling around a fewdifferent names.
Dave's talking about iRacing andI'm like maybe we should call
(17:08):
it the virtual racing world orsomething like that.
You know, just to be in thatmeeting with the discussion of
what the name of the company wasgoing to be, and iRacing is
clearly the best name it couldhave been.
It is just the divine name itcould have been.
It is just the divine name ofthis company.
(17:28):
I just remember and I'll neverforget just being in that room
talking to him about discussingwhat the name of the company was
going to be.
Erick (17:39):
Was he dead set on
iRacing out the gate?
Nim (17:43):
I think Dave was.
I think Dave was.
It was going to be on iRacingout the gate, or did you guys
kind of pass him back and forth?
I think Dave was.
I think Dave was.
It was going to be callediRacing Wow.
Erick (17:49):
Okay.
So he just came in the roomwith greatness already.
Nim (17:53):
Well, dave is greatness,
whatever room he walks into.
But, yeah, I always thought itcame from.
Jason (18:00):
I always thought the name
came from, like you know, Apple
devices devices, because at thetime you had iPods and you had
an iPhone.
Nim (18:08):
I don't know where he came
up with the name from, but just
in that meeting that's what wewere going to call the company,
because 2008 is kind.
Of this was back in 2003 whenwe were talking Way before
iPhone and all that stuffInteresting.
Jason (18:29):
Maybe we got to yeah, we
got to email this guy, but all
right, Well yeah, I'll go aheadwith my my actual question,
which was about your setup.
Erick (18:42):
I know you mentioned you
did a new setup, but yeah,
what's your setup?
I know you mentioned, you did anew setup, but um, yeah, uh,
what's your current setup andyou know how much driving do you
actually get to do?
I know we interview a lot ofnot a lot of people, but we
assume everybody gets to drive alot.
But we also know if you'reactually working on the product,
you might be doing more testingthan actual driving right,
(19:03):
right, right.
Nim (19:04):
So this is my old setup
right here.
It's just a wheel stand with aFanatec setup right on it and
that's what I used for so manyyears and that was my setup.
And the one you see over myleft shoulder now is something
we built over the winter,probably in March.
My nephew helped me build itand he actually did most of it.
(19:27):
He was incredible with it, um,but it's a track racer t160.
It's awesome nice got a 90 uhinch widescreen on it and uh,
it's got a semi-cube 2 pro.
Yes, sir, I knew you yes, sir,it's awesome.
Erick (19:44):
Absolutely.
Nim (19:45):
It'll rip your arms right
out of your body.
Jeff (19:46):
Yes it will.
Nim (19:47):
Yeah, I got a Rexing Carbon
Fiber Formula Molaris 2 wheel.
Jason (19:54):
That's a nice one.
Yeah, I got DNR supported bythe way Plug DNR supported.
Nim (19:59):
Rexing, yeah, I got the VNM
three pedals set.
Okay, okay, yeah, a good pedalset and a Heisenfeld shifter,
sequential shifter.
Erick (20:09):
Nice, those are nice.
Nim (20:11):
Yeah, I got a monitor on
top for I do.
I do stream, I don't.
I record all my races that I dofor and I like to put them on
YouTube and I'm not really into,you know, making my YouTube
channel huge or anything likethat, but I just like to put
them on YouTube and I'm notreally into making my YouTube
channel huge or anything likethat, but I just like to have a
library of my races to watchyeah.
(20:32):
So if I want to watch them, Ithink it's great to watch your
own races, to go back andevaluate what you're doing in
just different situations andthings like that, and I enjoy
watching me race.
Who else can not watch me race?
So, anyway, that makes sense.
I have my own YouTube, totallythat, and I enjoy watching me
race, you know who else can notwatch me race, so anyway that
makes sense Ihave my own youtube youtube
channel that upload all my racestoo.
So that's why I got a littlebit of the streaming stuff set
(20:53):
up and um, as far as uh racesthat I do, uh, I don't do a lot
of testing.
Um, we're very busy withprotests, yeah, we're, and I do
some a little bit, but not awhole lot.
Um, when I have time, I like todrive.
Um, I, I did all the QA stuffand testing stuff the longest
time now.
Um, but I like to be surprised,as you guys, when release date
(21:16):
comes.
So, to tell you the truth, whenthere's a new car coming and
things like that, I usuallydon't touch it until it gets
released and then I go enjoy it.
When everybody else enjoys it,I just like doing that.
I'll go out and I'm right now.
I'm driving weekly.
I drive two formula races theformula four and the super
(21:38):
formula.
Jeff (21:38):
There you go.
I knew he was a good dude.
I knew he was a good dude.
Nim (21:42):
I drive a GT three.
I drive the Porsche.
I drive nothing but the Porschebecause I'm hoping Porsche
notices and they send me a carone day.
Jason (21:52):
I might drop it off one
day.
I drive IMSA.
Nim (21:59):
IMSA GT3.
I drive some Ovo.
I drive the Gen 4 series.
I drive the 87 series for NASnascar.
I drive in a league.
Sarah um late model league.
Uh, super late models and theregular late models.
I drive in that league and uh,uh, probably something I miss
here and there.
You can go to my youtube pageand check it out.
(22:20):
You can see what I drive.
Jason (22:21):
We'll definitely put
links below for all your youtube
and your you know, all yoursocials and everything you want
some?
Bad driving.
There you go I do have aquestion and this is a really
quick one before we you knowbefore the actual next question.
But yeah it's a long shot, butby being so connected to the
(22:43):
iRacing team, do you get thiscontent for free?
Jeff (22:47):
Yeah, absolutely I get it
for free.
Nim (22:52):
Let's say I don't pay for
the content.
Okay, Cash-wise but I live,iracing every second that these
eyes are open.
Erick (23:01):
And so.
Nim (23:03):
I just love my job.
I love the environment that Iwork in.
I love the environment that Iwork in.
I love my life that I get toyou know I tell you what.
Jason (23:11):
I tell you what, nim, if
you love what you're doing and
you call that work, you're notworking, that's right, it's not
working.
Nim (23:18):
It feels very strange to me
to call it a job, because I I'm
very blessed to have what Ihave and be able to to do this
and you know not not not have aproblem like this.
You know there's, you know,with my job there's different
experiences that, uh, you gothrough with uh, uh, different
situations, but in the end it's,you know, you're working to
make this product, iracing, abetter environment and, uh, the
(23:42):
one of the greatest things forme, you know you guys think
about iRacing as a product, Ithink about iRacing as the
community and, uh, you know allyou guys, we have 330,000 people
racing on iRacing right now.
And iRacing to me is thecommunity, and the software is
obviously important.
Um, but it it is is obviouslyimportant um, but it is.
Jason (24:07):
It is just the place
where the community resides.
Yeah, a hundred percent we.
We praise it a lot on the show,and it's not just to praise it.
We actually, you know, we havea lot of fun on that it's
wonderful.
Yeah, you know as you saw inour stream we just have a blast.
That was the best.
Jeff (24:22):
I love that stuff you know
, jay said if I could just say a
quick something before I gointo my question here is like
our industry is in the best ofhands.
Like the passion that thepeople like nim, daniel newman
you know anybody that we'vetalked to on the podcast and
george, like the passion thatpeople have for sim racing and
(24:46):
the community that's really iswhat everybody talks about the
people that are using, you know,the software, hardware and the
products here or there.
Uh, our industry is in goodhands.
Yeah, there is.
There is no doubt in my mindwhere this industry is going
because of the people that arebuilding it, you know, from the
ground up.
Oh yeah, so 100.
Nim (25:06):
There's a lot of good
people up at diaries.
When I get to go up and visitthe offices it's it's a real
wonderful time up there well,nym take me with you please, I
will you know, I'd love to takeyou.
Take you with us.
I'll carry the bags, bro, justlet me know what I need to do.
Jason (25:20):
oh yeah, we'll be there,
that would be, awesome man.
Jeff (25:25):
Speaking of that being the
chief steward, what are your
current roles and duties withiRacing being the chief steward,
if you could talk to us aboutkind of what your day-to-day
week-long activities is for you?
Nim (25:40):
Yeah, no problem.
My job is to facilitate theneeds of the stewards of the
department.
So we get probably 1,000protests a day into the service.
So my eight stewards that workfor me, it's their job to go
through all these protests andto try to figure out which
(26:04):
protests are valid and which arenot.
And I'll give you a basicballpark.
Usually it's about 40% of theprotests are valid, 40% of them
are not and 20% are somethingelse that aren't really protest
related.
So they go through protests anda steward can process up to 25
to 30 protests an hour.
(26:25):
You know you're basicallyloading replays.
You're saying you, and once youget to doing this job, you can
load a replay up and know what'sgoing on within just a few
seconds and they all have thebest computers, the best hard
drives.
They load replays like youwouldn't believe, like when I go
when I go into a race, I'm in arace 25 seconds, 30 seconds
before anybody else is on thetrack, you know, and it's just
(26:47):
the.
We have them set up to wherethey can load replays very
quickly.
My job is to facilitate theneeds of all these guys to take
care of any issues support mayhave with a customer or anything
like that, take care of a lotof the unusual things, the
challenging customers, and thenI do and a couple other people
(27:12):
do appeals.
So if somebody gets suspendedand they want to appeal, I take
care of that and there's acouple other people involved
that take care of that kind ofthing.
And doing appeals in itself ismainly a full-time job.
If there's any questions or anyissues that the stewards have,
(27:34):
they come to me.
We all hang out in a Discordsetting through the day.
We all work together all daylong, that's awesome man A
thousand protests a day I canbelieve it.
We were looking at it today whenwe were working and like man,
that number is not coming downand we were getting one or two
protests a minute, you know,through the afternoon, yeah.
Erick (27:59):
I might need to expand
the team man.
Nim (28:01):
You know we've been growing
a lot lately.
We put a, we put in a couplethousand customers just in the
last week or so.
Jeff (28:08):
Um, the growth is crazy.
Nim (28:10):
Um, you know, obviously
that's great.
Um, yeah, and we're working ondifferent ways to help educate
people on sending frivolousprotests, or you know things
like that.
Or you know, because that'sthat's, uh, you know, cause
that's that's one of the uh mainareas that we can work on,
where people are sendingprotests for just bumps, and
normal issues.
Jason (28:31):
You know I'm a little
embarrassed man.
Nim (28:33):
I may have gotten written
up you know in the past, you
know there's, there's peoplethat work for me, that have
gotten written up in the past,so it's not, it's not, it's not
a big deal.
Yeah, mean we, you know peoplelearn from their mistakes or
whatever.
People learn from differentsituations.
Um, and it's, it's all good, wedon't, we don't carry grudges
(28:56):
okay, just don't don't.
Jason (28:57):
Don't, don't do a control
f jason rivera, because I might
be on that list and you know Ipromise it was.
Nim (29:04):
It was jeff testing my rig,
or something if you get kicked
off the service, if you getkicked off of iRacing?
You've worked hard to get that.
Jason (29:11):
Get to that point, no, no
, no, no, no, all right, so all
right, and then the nextquestion, so I guess a follow-up
right to uh jeff's question uh,why did I racing decide on the
current safety rating criteria?
(29:31):
And what would you say, uh, tothose that are critical of it?
Nim (29:38):
yeah.
So just like uh, real racingyou, you need to have
consequences.
When you get in the car.
In real life, when you sit inthe car, there are consequences
to making bad decisions.
With sim racing or with racingas it was before iRacing, there
(30:00):
were no consequences to gettingon the track and going out and
being involved in wrecks, makingbad decisions or anything like
that.
With the I rating system and thesafety rating system, there
become some consequences withmaking bad decisions and some
may say that it's not enoughconsequences.
(30:21):
You know it should be more, butwe believe over time that it
does sort out the drivers whoare better and safer from the
drivers who are not, who choosenot to be, and it is a choice.
Basically, how you race and, uh, you know there are people that
get frustrated sometimes and weall have those uh times where
(30:44):
where you know we get involvedin a lot of things that we
didn't cause and there's streaksthat happen, um, but overall,
your safety rating and your eyerating are yours, whether you
believe it or not.
That is a good rating for howyou drive, not based on
everybody else I think that's alittle bit of humble pie.
Jeff (31:06):
I think everybody could
take that statement.
Jason (31:09):
Yeah.
Nim (31:09):
I mean, like I said, that's
over time.
Jason (31:12):
The biggest complaint
about the safety rating in
Jason's humble opinion and a fewother guys that I race with, is
getting a 4X for something thatyou did not do is getting a 4X
for something that you did notdo Even if you're driving the
perfect line.
Somebody comes off the track,on back onto the track and then
(31:37):
hits you on the door and thenit's like 4X.
Nim (31:41):
It's like.
Those are some of the thingsthat I.
My reply to you is that who isdriving your car?
Is it you or is it somebodyelse?
Now, I'm not saying that you'reresponsible for every 4X that
you get, but we all race in thesame environment.
And if you are having issueswhere you're getting a lot of
4Xs from other drivers and Ialways tell people this and I've
(32:01):
told people this even before Irace, and I always tell people
this and I've told people thiseven before I race when you're
ever involved in an accident,you should go back and look at
every accident that you'reinvolved in in a way where you
look at it as how could I haveavoided this?
Ok, because you can't controlwhat the other guy does.
And when you guys were racingin the Nürburgring 24, I even
(32:24):
talked to you about this Inoticed in that first wreck that
you guys were involved in.
I could see the cars ahead ofyou and I knew there was.
They were going to wreck thereis absolutely no way.
Yeah, they were going to wreckand I saw it and I was like you
guys got to back off.
You know these guys are going totake each other out and and you
have to you have to realize,you know, when they actually
wrecked, sure, the accident wastheir fault and they caused you
(32:50):
to wreck, but was there anopportunity for you or the
driver of the car at that timeto see what was going on and to
understand what was going on andto avoid that situation?
Because there clearly was inthat instance, was in that
instance, and this is whatseparates the drivers who have
the certain safety ratings fromthose drivers who don't have the
certain safety ratings andthose drivers who are constantly
(33:12):
saying I'm getting wrecked byeverybody all the time, it's not
everybody else's fault.
All the time you have toevaluate your own decisions and
you have to evaluate thesituations on the track and if
you do that, the iRacing systemsare very lenient, in my opinion
, and if you learn to evaluatethe environment that you're in
(33:38):
and the situations that you'rein a little bit better, you'll
be a 499 and no problem at all.
No, no issues, okay.
Erick (33:53):
Well said Well said we
were just speaking in general
terms.
Jeff (33:56):
We might need it.
We might need it from time totime.
Erick (34:00):
Yes.
Jason (34:01):
I'll say this yeah, for
sure Go ahead.
Erick (34:03):
I want to say this as
somebody who I'm not sure if
you're familiar with GranTurismo or anything like that,
but coming from a more arcadekind of style racing game to
iRacing, the safety rating andthe iRating, you know we have
the same thing in Gran Turismobut the weight of it feels
(34:26):
significant in iRating Like itfeels like.
I was terrified in my firstcouple of races because of just
the cost of wrecking or goingoff track or hitting somebody
else.
Nim (34:38):
How do you think you'd feel
if you got in a real car?
If, you had a car man, you'dhave that feeling.
You'd have that feeling of feara little bit, that feeling of
concern, that feeling of thatbad things could happen, and
that's what's great.
That's what's great about thesesystems, and everything you say
here makes me feel like we didit.
(34:58):
It's working as intended, it isworking.
Jason (35:03):
It is working because you
think twice before.
Jeff (35:06):
The first sentence was
like you hit it out of the park.
If you were in a car you'd benervous.
You should be a little nervoussitting in your car.
Nim (35:15):
And you know what your car
could be wadded in turn.
One in real life.
In there Like nothing that youdid.
You didn't do anything wrongand you could be, wadded up.
Jeff (35:26):
Max Verstappen two weeks
ago.
Nim (35:28):
That's right.
Jeff (35:29):
Yeah.
Jason (35:31):
All right, that's true
man, this is getting spicy.
I love that.
Jeff (35:36):
I needed to hear what he
had to say, because more than
50% of the time was like hey, itwasn't me, I didn't hit
somebody, somebody hit me, but Ihave no comment back to what
you just said there, nim, it's alittle bit of humble pie.
Nim (35:52):
It's a little bit of humble
pie.
It's not a bad thing to realizethe situation and what you're
going through.
Jason (35:56):
Sometimes people need to
be told directly and, you know,
if it opens opens your mind andopens your heart to what's
actually going on, you knowyou're going to be a better
driver because of it a hundredpercent, a hundred percent, and
eventually your safety ratingand I rating will go up, and
then your strength of field goesup, and then you're placed with
another group of drivers thatare more serious, and then your
(36:16):
strength of field goes up, andthen you're placed with another
group of drivers that are moreserious and then your license.
So it's a system that I'll tellyou here on the show that it
does work.
It does work really wellbecause people think twice.
That's why a lot of us go toleague racing to improve and
then come over to officials, to,you know, to actual perform on
(36:40):
the official side, at least inmy case.
But yeah, that's awesome man.
So next question we got MrKelly.
Erick (36:51):
Yeah.
So I'm just curious have youhad any sort of like formal,
like business or programmingeducation, Because I know that
passion kind of led you downthis road, but have you kind of
coupled that with any formaleducation?
Nim (37:08):
In 1987, I got a degree in
electronics only because that
was the key word at that timeand I needed to make my parents
happy and so I got a degree inelectronics.
Yeah, I got a degree inelectronics.
It has done nothing to help mewhere I am today.
My, you know the only thing,that not the only thing, but
(37:36):
that did get me a job where Imet my wife and you know where
you know, recreated, raised afamily and you know.
But that's what my electronicsdegree did for me.
We went through before how Igot the job at iRacing and it
really you know I've been turneddown at other gaming companies
(37:56):
before iRacing because I didn'thave certain degrees or whatever
.
But luckily John saw passion asthe biggest priority and that's
lucky for me.
I got that in iRacing.
Jeff (38:09):
Turns out that guy's
pretty good at judging talent.
Jason (38:11):
Yes he is oh yeah, oh
yeah, many, many things.
Erick (38:15):
He's wisdom right there.
He's two for two.
Oh yeah, yep, oh yeah, many,many things.
He's two for two.
Jeff (38:19):
Oh yeah, yep, all right,
I'm going to.
I got another question hereabout, uh.
You know, iracing is thebusiness side and I'm not sure
if it's in your wheelhouse buthopefully you can kind of speak
to it a little bit.
But uh, what goes into decidingwhat track to add or what car
to add uh, so obviously it's alittle bit of um.
Nim (38:41):
You know what people are
asking for.
Uh, you know customer umrequests things like that but uh
yeah, it's.
You know I I am not direct.
I have actually signed a fewtracks, uh, uh, one of the um I
was a big uh and getting dirtonto I racing, dirt racing.
(39:02):
I go to like 80 dirt races ayear um.
Next week I'm going to be 80,six, yeah, eight zero next.
Next week I'll be at six racesand we'll be traveling about
1500 miles, but I, yeah, I go tosprint car races all day long,
every, you know, all the time.
So I was a big proponent ingetting dirt racing on iRacing
(39:25):
and selling dirt racing and Iwas luckily enough to be
involved in signing some tracksdrivers for you know our console
games that we have now.
I signed a lot of the driversin that and as far as in that
situation it was getting tracksthat were popular in different
parts of the country and whattracks had big social media
(39:46):
exposure.
Ok, things like that Socialmedia exposure is a big deal.
Tracks that are popular notonly fan-wise but, like I said,
social media-wise, and there'stracks that get you that type of
exposure.
Um, that's pretty much it.
We, we're all race fans, uh, uh,who are involved in these
decisions and, um, you know, so,you know, when we sign a track
(40:11):
like portemont or whatever we'relooking at, you know, is the
track popular?
Is the track you know, is thetrack popular?
Is the track you know, is itFormula One track?
Does it hit, you know, ringcertain types of bells and then
it comes down to well, we wantthat track and you know, and can
we make a deal with them?
And hopefully we can.
Sometimes we can't, but youknow we definitely try to make a
(40:32):
try to get the tracks thateverybody else wants in the
service.
And you know, I guess sometimestoo it's it's tracks that come
to us and offer, offer goodthings to get into the game or
something like that.
Jeff (40:44):
I was going to say, like,
make a deal, these tracks should
be coming to you guys.
Jason (40:49):
That's what I was saying.
This is free advertisement.
Jeff (40:51):
Why would you not Some of
them?
Nim (40:52):
do, but not all of them,
not all of them.
Jason (40:54):
That's interesting.
Nim (40:55):
There are some tracks that
have turned us down.
That's wild.
We wanted in tracks that justsaid no, what are they not like
money?
That's crazy.
Jeff (41:03):
And popularity.
Jason (41:05):
I'm telling you and you
said the key words here.
This is completely unscripted,but you said that you guys
consider what the players wantor what the drivers want.
Nim (41:16):
Yeah.
Jason (41:17):
So you know we're hurting
on the F1 side.
Jeff (41:20):
I was going to add one
thing, yeah.
Nim (41:24):
Well, I can assure you, I
can assure you that iRacing
would love every F1 track.
There's no doubt about it.
You know, making those dealshappen is something that you
know is sometimes out of ourcontrol.
Sometimes the deals aren'tthere to be made.
But, without going intospecifics, there are just
(41:49):
certain things that we may ormay not be willing to do to get
a track.
I see, we try to, you know we.
You know there's a limit,you're saying.
I guess you know there is.
Like I said, I'm not involvedin signing in, in doing these
kinds of things.
But, um, I can assure you thateverybody at iRacing and
(42:10):
everybody in upper management,upper management and iRacing
would love to have every F1track and we might get there one
day, you know we're workingworking deals with fia and stuff
like that and you know, maybeone day we'll be there because
their license is on the table.
I'm just saying yeah, I tell you.
I tell you what if there is alicense on the table, we don't?
(42:31):
It's not that we don't knowabout it, that's for sure.
Oh.
Jason (42:35):
Okay, all right, well
said.
Okay, yeah, well said.
Very, very well said.
Now let's move on here.
So, speaking of tracks, right,want to have a live coach
available on demand.
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your convenience A real-timecoach in your headphones to
(42:56):
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This tool is awesome as itprovides full brake, throttle
and steering telemetry on screen, with a live review getting you
ready for your next big race.
Check links to Trophy AI in thedescription and also use
CHICAIN12 in all caps for a 12%discount.
(43:16):
What does scanning a track looklike?
If yeah, yeah, so like, can youwalk us through the process of
you know being on the ground atthe track while you know, while
it happens?
Nim (43:29):
sure.
So uh, what happens is, youknow, you have this uh scanning
device that sits on this hugetripod and it goes around and it
takes millions of data pointsper second, or something like
that, you know, and it justspins around.
So you do that where you, youset it up, you let it go, you
run out of the way real quickand you, you let it, you let it
(43:51):
scan and do a 360 scan and, uh,after it's done 45 minutes or
something like that 30 minutes45 okay yeah, you move it 100
yards down the road and you dothe same thing over and over.
Oh my god, and you just do thatover and over.
Jeff (44:06):
Yeah, the nerve ring took
forever and I was going to say
like forever are we talking aweek, oh, weeks.
Nim (44:16):
Multiple, yeah, we can do a
short track in a few hours,
like a short oval track orsomething like that.
Jason (44:22):
Again Nymcross if you
need help at any of these events
.
Nim (44:27):
I don't do the scanning.
We have some guys that do thescanning stuff and they are
troopers.
They're out there in the middleof the night at some of these
racetracks that are very sketchy, in the middle of the night you
know, at these, some of theserace tracks that are very
sketchy in the middle of thenight, you know, and, uh, you
know, they, they, they do a goodjob so so okay, so so you.
Jason (44:46):
So when you update tracks
because we've been updating
them right um is there like um.
Has it always been this waythat you scan them like that?
Because I know you guys startedusing drones now in addition to
.
Nim (45:02):
Yeah, I don't know a lot of
the new technology that they've
been doing.
I haven't talked to somebodythat's been scanning probably
for a couple of years now.
Back in the older days, a goodfriend of mine used to do all
the scanning and I would talk tohim on the phone while he was
in the middle of you know two,two o'clock in the morning, in
the middle of doing a scan, andI was just kind of keeping
company while he was doing thatkind of stuff, um, but, and
(45:24):
that's the way it worked backthen.
So so much as far as dronetechnology.
I'm sure they have a lot moreuh things that they're doing now
than I I I know about and uh,but in that's the way scanning
works.
Jason (45:38):
That's the way, okay,
yeah, all right Well said All
right, that's awesome.
That is.
That is, I don't think there'sa sim slash video game doing
this, man.
I mean that the attention onthis you know for years, you
know just being being on thesame platform doing it, just
(46:00):
being being on the same platformdoing it because there wasn't
an iRacing 2 or an iRacing 3 oran iRacing 4, we would probably
be on iRacing 10, right?
Nim (46:04):
now I think, well, the fun
part about iRacing is that we
update every three months andwe're always adding something,
and we're always improving andand it's, it's a constant you
know it's a constant build.
It's, it's.
It's a constant build, it's aconstant growth.
And we were just today, me andthe guys were, hey, I wonder
what's going to get releasedthis September and we have ways
(46:28):
to look.
So we went and looked.
And oh that's cool, that'scoming, that's coming.
So it's fun to First off.
A 12-week season is just enough.
You go through the 12-weekseason and you get down to the
end and you're like okay, I'mabout tired of this season, or
(46:48):
whatever Week 13 happens, andhalfway through you get the new
build in week 13.
Halfway through week 13, you'relike come on, the next season's
got to start.
We need to do something aboutweek 13,.
Jason (46:58):
man, we need to figure
something out for week 13.
It's miserable.
Nim (47:02):
It is genius the way it
works Because as much as it
makes you want to start to raceand you hate this period, it
gets you so excited for theupcoming season.
And that in itself isabsolutely.
It does it to me too you knowI'm, oh, you should see jeff.
Jason (47:25):
Yeah, it's like I can't.
I'm sitting there sunday nightsunday night.
Nim (47:28):
You gotta wait another 24
hours.
I can't take it, let's go,let's go.
That's what makes it.
That's what makes it so muchfun when you get in that first
week and even I, you know what.
We're in week four and I stillhave the newness of this season
that's going on.
In fact, when we're done here,I'm getting off, I'm getting on
the rig and I'm going to do acouple races.
Jason (47:46):
There you go, man.
All this talk, right?
Yeah, that's how it is All thistalk about the race.
Jeff (47:52):
The man uses his product.
Isn't that the golden rule?
Erick (47:58):
All right, oh man, I love
it, but yeah, so I don't know.
You got us laughing already,man.
So I'm just curious if you haveany funny stories about your
time at iRacing or you know anyinteractions with.
John Henry, that kind of cometo mind, that kind of made you
laugh, that kind of leaves youlaughing.
Nim (48:18):
So right away.
2004, the Red Sox won the WorldSeries.
I was there yeah, 2004 the Red.
Jason (48:30):
Sox won the World.
Nim (48:30):
Series and during that
season we're doing a lot of
testing with John.
He's a big racer, he loves theseason.
You know we're doing a lot oftesting with John and he's he's
a big racer, he loves the raceand you know I'm I'm running his
league, I'm admitting hisleague that he's doing and I'm
giving him baseball stats andscores and plays while he's
driving.
(48:53):
You know, and doing that, thatkind of thing.
You know, up there, you know,pejoria just got thrown out at
second and he did this reallything, and you know, and plus
two, he also took us down toBoca Raton and we flew on his
private jet over to the springtraining ballpark and we got to
(49:14):
meet the 2004 Red Sox at thattime.
And you know, and, and you knowand you know.
oh so, one of these deals, oneof the first things I had to do,
uh, with iRacing and was we hada big meeting and this was the
same weekend.
We had a big meeting and I'mjust a guy who is a sim racing
(49:34):
league guy who did you, guy whobuilt the league I'm used to
sitting in my basement andhaving my own thing.
I did this presentation withsome help from some other people
.
We were in this room that JohnHenry in his offices was this
big horseshoe shape.
John Henry was at the head ofthe table up there.
(49:57):
It's this big horseshoe shape.
Where John Henry was at the headof the table up there and in
back of me was the big screen ofthe PowerPoint that I was
presentation presentating andall you know all the big wigs
and I'm just selling, you knowideas and different things that
we have.
And luckily, I had no idea whatI was getting myself into until
I showed up in the, until Ishowed up in this room and here
(50:19):
we are and like oh my God, lookat this you know type thing you
know, but it the whole there's.
There's a million differentexperiences, uh, a million
different things.
Uh, uh, one of the one of thefun things I get to do is I, I
go around all the Twitchchannels, twitch channels and I,
you know, look at the differentstreams and, like I, how I met
you guys and it's just.
(50:40):
All those things are fun and,you know, there's there's new,
new things every day oh yeah, itwas funny as hell.
Jason (50:47):
When you came in there,
he was he was saying why are you
?
Nim (50:49):
going to sleep yeah oh,
you're, you're just.
I was like dude, I'm about tobe 40 and he's like I'm 50 I'm
50, man, I didn, and he's likeI'm 50.
Jason (50:57):
I'm 50, man.
I didn't know where to put myface.
I had nowhere to put my faceafter he said that.
Nim (51:04):
I wasn't thinking so much
about our ages or anything like
that.
I'm just thinking, if I'm juststarting a 24-hour race, I'm
pumped up.
Yeah, I know, I could not sleep, bro.
You were 100%.
There's no way I'm 100, I'mgoing to bed.
Jason (51:14):
so I went to bed, right
and I pulled out my phone and
I'm watching my own streamthat's happening outside the
bedroom.
Yeah, my wife is like what areyou doing?
Yeah, I was like I don't know,I can't.
The guys are there, I'm worriedthey're gonna.
I don't know if they crashedthe car, I don't know what's
going on?
Nim (51:32):
yeah, I told you, go down,
get a five-hour energy.
You're gonna be up.
All you told me to get many.
Erick (51:41):
That's great advice right
there.
Jason (51:41):
Yeah, you were awesome,
dan.
I love that, and you jumped inmany times, so I really
appreciate that, man again.
Nim (51:48):
Like I said, you guys
looked like you were having a
blast.
I was actually a little jealousthat I wasn't in the race.
Jason (51:53):
Yeah, you did, you
mentioned.
Nim (52:02):
You was like, dude, I want
to race man, yeah, I want to be,
but I was traveling the sprintcar races like uh, like I told,
you about.
Erick (52:04):
I go to all the time and
I was going to a bunch there a
couple of those that weekend andI wouldn't be in that race.
Jeff (52:07):
That was awesome, man all
right so all right, yeah, here
we go.
I got the next one.
It's kind of, you know,piggyback that one, but, um, is
there any meetings orinteractions where you had a
moment where you were like, howdid I get myself here?
Moment?
You talked a little bit aboutthem, but, um, maybe you could
pull out the when you becauseyou've been with them from the
start where you had the oh wegot something here moment and
(52:31):
that, yeah, well, when I racingwas going to be I racing.
So there are many moments thatI ask myself how did I get here?
Nim (52:36):
because I don't deserve to
be iRacing.
So there are many moments thatI ask myself how did I get here?
Because I don't deserve to behere, you know, uh to me it's.
It's amazing that, uh, I'm ableto uh work for iRacing and and
you know I often am grateful forthat uh, moments to where,
moments to where.
Well, I tell you what ourbiggest moments were during
(53:00):
COVID.
We were about 80, 90,000 peopleand then COVID hit and we
exploded.
And at the same time that we'reexploding, customer wise, we're
adding a thousand people a dayat least during COVID.
And then we're doing livetelevision A thousand people a
day, at least during COVID.
And then we're doing livetelevision A thousand people a
(53:23):
day, yeah.
And then we're doing livetelevision on major networks,
you know, for every differentrace series, for IndyCar, for
NASCAR, for World of Outlaws,we're doing live broadcasts and
live TV shows on Fox anddifferent networks.
Wow, and that time you knoweverybody's every.
I hear people talking about howthey were bored at home sitting
doing nothing.
(53:43):
That time, for me, was, and foreverybody that I racing was
unbelievable.
We were all pulling 24 hourdays and everybody was just on
the broadcast team and everybodyand everybody.
It was just crazy and it waslike that for about three months
, but it was a wonderful, it wasa great three months.
It was incredible, absolutelyamazing, and we made a lot of
(54:06):
relationships during that timeand, uh, we grew a lot during
that time too.
It was awesome.
Erick (54:11):
Yeah, I can only imagine
because, um, I know a lot of the
guys that we interview thething they say, the time frame
when they got in that and thesim racing was around covet yeah
I remember watching like travispastrana, like the nascar guys
doing because they couldn't race, they would just race from home
.
Jeff (54:28):
And they'd tell them you
know, that's why I remember
first seeing it it was, I think,the f1 even did like a, you
know, a mini event and stufflike that.
Nim (54:37):
Yep, it was Indy cars, it
was, it was, it was.
It's such a blur right now, youknow.
You try to look back on it.
I know right, it's such a blur,I'll tell you what, though?
Jason (54:46):
I'm ready for a COVID.
Nim (54:47):
I'm ready for it.
I'm saying I don't know, If wehave another COVID, we are ready
.
If it happens, we're ready, buthopefully we don't have to go
through another COVID.
Jason (55:03):
I know, I know I say that
, but you know there was it's on
the?
Jeff (55:06):
cheap, that's all.
Jason (55:08):
Yeah, you know we got to
look at the bright side though.
We had our fun with thesituation and how it went down.
I mean that's kind of awesome,though I really.
How the numbers skyrocketed isinsane.
I didn't think it was that much.
Nim (55:26):
A thousand people a day.
Yeah, it was nuts.
Jason (55:29):
That's insane.
How do you manage that You'renot ready for something like
that?
Nim (55:33):
We were hiring people and
this I think I had two people
working for me at that time,something like that.
We were hiring people and thisI think I had two people working
for me at that time and uh,yeah, we had just gone through
the process of interviewing abunch of people and we hired one
person, and then kovat happenedand we were calling everybody
pretty much what we interviewedyou want a job?
We were only a job.
Jason (55:57):
We were only kidding.
We actually called you back.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nim (56:03):
It was a very unique time.
Jason (56:05):
Yeah and again, guys, I
don't want to promote COVID as
being a good thing and shout outto the people.
There's a lot of people thatsuffered during that time that
we went through and it waspainful.
So I mean, I'm just.
I'm just hopefully we don'thave to go through that again,
(56:25):
but if we do, it's right backhere.
Nim (56:29):
So moving on.
Oh, if you're stuck in yourhouse, you need something to do.
We'll always be here for you.
Erick (56:35):
There we go and look, we
appreciate it, we got, we got
stewards watching your back too.
Jason (56:39):
They'll send you the
email.
The email will come right awaybecause I've got and it's super
detailed too those emails whenyou get them.
So yeah, so all right for thenext question.
What's one thing you wishracers knew about iRacing?
Because you know, on the showwe talk about iRacing a lot.
(57:01):
We also include every other simbecause we're not an iRacing
show, even though it's dear toour hearts.
But we do race all sims.
Nim (57:11):
But if you had to think of
one thing to tell someone that
you wish, you wish you knowirish is new about about the sin
so I guess the way I look at itis that sometimes I'll see,
I'll watch people stream or I'llsee comments and, uh, if
something's wrong, people willmake a snarky comment or think
(57:34):
that we don't care.
You know, when it's thefarthest thing from the truth,
that's possible.
And people might say well, whatabout the situation where guys
are running through the grasscalling their tires or something
like that?
And uh, you know one thing thatI've or what, what about a
certain tire model?
(57:55):
Why is this not perfect?
Why does it do this?
Well, one thing that I'velearned with the engineers at
iRacing there's a lot of waysthat you can go through and put
a Band-Aid on something and fixit.
One thing that is happening iniRacing is that a real physics
(58:16):
model, a real-world physicsmodel, is being created.
So the tire and the millions ofpoints in the tire that take
data, that make things happen.
And I'm trying to explain it toyou when I don't know what I'm
talking about.
But I've seen other people thatdo know what they're talking
about and I've heard them talk.
(58:36):
So, instead of having a problemand putting a bandaid on
something and fix it, they aretrying to figure out why in our
world this is happening and why?
What do we have to do?
Or what?
Where are we wrong and what dowe need to fix and correct to
(58:56):
make it react properly as itwould in the real world?
So when you, when you seesomething going on, that, uh,
that is an issue.
It's not that the people atiracing don't care about fixing
it, it's that they want to, theywant to fix it the right way
and they want to fix it in a waythat is a real world type fix.
(59:17):
You know, and, believe me,everybody at iRacing will admit,
that we mess up sometimes andthings get screwed up sometimes,
but it's not through lack ofcaring, it's through, you know
absolutely billions and billionsof lines of code where one, one
little character can be offsomewhere and and totally screw
things up.
But when, when these guys aremaking a fix like with the new
(59:41):
tire model that came out for theGT3 cars and the prototype cars
that just came out, which Ilove.
It's about going through andmaking that tire react in a
physical world.
That it's not a physical world.
It's on, it's on a pc chip, butit is a physical world in our
minds and it is reactingcorrectly as it would in in the
(01:00:04):
real world.
And and those calculations andthose, those feelings are
happening real life and they'renot something that is saying,
well, it needs to be a littlebit, it needs to be a little bit
forgiving here.
So let's just adjust thesenumbers over here.
That's not the way it works atiRacing.
At iRacing, they say, okay,this is a problem, how are we
going to fix it?
(01:00:24):
Or what's wrong in our worldthat is making this react like
that?
And people are going throughand fixing it the right way
instead of doctoring it up.
Man, wow.
Erick (01:00:36):
That's so crazy, that's
dedication, bro, I mean.
Nim (01:00:39):
Yeah, it's a lot of people
way smarter than me working on
this.
You guys are lucky for that.
Erick (01:00:47):
Yeah.
I was going to say it makes somuch sense that you guys aren't
just adjusting a property ofattire to try to get a certain
outcome.
You're you're actually fixingthe world.
You're like okay, like thisworld, everything in this world
isn't responding the way itshould.
What about this world should wefix?
(01:01:08):
That's crazy exactly, yeahthat's awesome.
Jason (01:01:13):
So this is textbook,
right, guys?
If you're not convinced by now,yeah.
Nim (01:01:22):
One thing you guys talk
about too is you talk about the
other games and Sims and thingslike that.
It's great, all of thoseproducts that that that people
get into maybe, maybe what iswhat is introduced by somebody.
That's just starting out andthat's where they go and that's
(01:01:43):
where they get to.
We believe that if we keepdoing our job and we keep having
our product and the passion forour product the way we do,
people are going to wind up atiRacing because this is where
this is where the pinnacle is.
This is where the bestcompetition is.
You'll get no other onlineevents like we have Just today
(01:02:04):
and this afternoon GT3, we had1,000 people at the 2 o'clock
GT3 race sign up for that event.
That's 30-some splits that wenton.
Yeah, nothing against anybodyelse.
Like I said, they, they makegreat products and they do good,
good products and we we rootfor them to do well because we
(01:02:26):
we feel that they, um, are astepping stone to us and we can
be a stepping stone to them too.
You know, people might leave,you know might have, uh, our
product and they might want totry something else.
It's, it's, the sim racingworld has a lot of different
options and we, as long as we'rea part of you know what people
do, you know we're happy,correct, yeah yeah, yeah,
(01:02:48):
nothing doesn't put it.
Jason (01:02:50):
That's a great way to put
it, and I mean also just to add
just a little bit to that, isyou have the, the many real life
drivers that are using your simto train and get better.
You know, in real life, yeah,which is the one thing that has
always convinced me about thephysics model, right, you know,
(01:03:10):
and 100 yeah the fact that thosereal life drivers, um through
all the different disciplines,race on iRacing.
Nim (01:03:19):
And what is very cool is
that because they value iRacing
in such a way you can beconfident that when you're
driving our cars that you'regetting a sense that they have
when they're driving their carson Sunday or Saturday or
whatever they're doing 100%, andit's not just in one tier too.
Jason (01:03:36):
You have formula drivers,
you have nascar drivers.
You got a nascar guy thatbecame pro um, dax per stappen,
daniel morad, which is a huge umyep, uh.
I racing guy too, yeah daniel'sa great guy.
Nim (01:03:52):
I just uh watched him race
at watkins glen.
I was up at Watkins Glen acouple weeks ago and Daniel was
there.
He's a wonderful, wonderfulexample of drivers on iRacing
that gets value out of iRacingand actually includes what he
learns on iRacing in the realworld.
(01:04:12):
I'm sure obviously there'sdifferences and nobody's here to
say that there's no differences, but uh, there are things that
that train you for real lifestuff too.
Erick (01:04:22):
So okay and and that's
awesome, man.
I'm just thinking about all thetime and effort and passion,
and you know, I've worked placeswhere you kind of go through a
cycle where you get a group ofguys that are passionate, making
a great product, and then atsome point the business side
comes in and says, ok, we haveto, you know, restrict this time
(01:04:48):
frame, or we have to restrictthe money, or something like
that.
But it makes me, I can't helpbut think about the fact that
you guys, out the gate, chose asubscription model when
subscription services weren'treally a thing.
But there's no other way to dowhat you guys do unless it is a
(01:05:12):
perpetual service, because everyother, every other sim they're
thinking about a version one andat certain, at a certain point,
you can't put everything inversion one.
You have to start kind ofputting stuff to the side for
version two or you know,shelving things or shelving
certain ideas, or looking atbudgets, and so I guess my
(01:05:33):
question would be like what madeyou guys, what gave you
confidence that the subscriptionmodel was the way to go?
Nim (01:05:42):
Uh well, so the actual
input of it was John and Dave,
um and Steve talking uh aboutthose things and and coming up
with the model about thosethings and coming up with the
model.
One thing that people you hearpeople talk about how expensive
(01:06:03):
iRacing is.
It's a hobby.
It's not the game that you goout, buy one time and you play
for a few hours and you're donewith it.
It is a hobby.
One thing that iRacing has,that a lot of other games or
whatever products don't have, iswe have servers all around the
world.
Jason (01:06:24):
Oh, yes, you do, we're in
Hawaii.
Yeah, we find races all thetime.
Nim (01:06:29):
Those servers and
everything you see going on have
a constant cost to them.
It's not just a one-time feeand it's not only that.
We have servers around theworld.
We have the best servers aroundthe world and we have at the
best data farms, and that's justone aspect of the cost of doing
(01:06:50):
this type of business.
There are many other aspects toit also.
We have a staff of over 200 nowI believe it is which is crazy
to me because I remember when wewere 30, 40 people.
Wow, yeah, and there's costinvolved in everything.
(01:07:11):
There are actually other gamesout there.
It's fine too.
There are other games that cost$100 for a plane or $60 for a
train.
It's that kind of thing too $15for a car.
Jason (01:07:29):
I paid $90 for a truck.
Nim (01:07:32):
A truck's in.
Jason (01:07:35):
It's just part of the
hobby.
Nim (01:07:38):
If you enjoy it, if you
enjoy your hobby, you know
you'll invest some time.
And one thing too is when wecreate a track and what's a
track cost?
Like 12 bucks.
Um, like I told you guys before, I get it for free, so I'm not
sure what it costs I know, butsoft flex yeah, it's just a
little, just a hint of a flexhere.
But whatever it costs, it's thescanning and it does take a lot
(01:08:00):
of cost to build that track andthe artist and everybody that
goes through where it gets towhere it goes and the cost is, I
think obviously I would thinkit but it's reasonable.
Jeff (01:08:12):
To me, it's fair, it's
updated.
It's not just hey, you get thisand it's reasonable to me.
It's fair to me it's updated.
It's not just, hey, you getthis and it's gone.
You know you don't never get it.
You know there's updates, allevery.
You know new season, there'snew updates.
Jason (01:08:23):
You got every three
months tracks, yeah and then how
do you pay these 200 plusemployees, right?
How do they get money?
How do they make money?
Because the sim itself doesn'tcost anything.
You just pay for thesubscription.
So to me, to me jason's opinionand I might get some some hate
(01:08:43):
for this, but my 10 12 a monthis always justified with that
racing.
There's never been a time whereeven though I pay it by a year,
but there's never been a timewhere I thought that I was
paying for a product and notseeing it evolve or constantly
(01:09:04):
have things for me to use,because to me, iracing is the
sim of all sims, with theexception of truck driving.
It's racing, it's a racing sim.
So to me it's justified.
You have 200 people, how do you?
A giant corporation, you cannotjust release a DLC pack and
(01:09:29):
expect all these thingshappening together all these
things happening together.
Jeff (01:09:38):
You know, as we mentioned
Nothing.
You know if it's free it'sprobably not worth it.
You know you get what you payfor.
Nim (01:09:48):
Well, if you, if you also,
you know, if you take advantage
of the sales that we have andyou take advantage of getting
your ten dollars of creditsevery season, you know it's
really not that expensive whenyou're, when you're looking at
everything and the discountsthat you get for buying balk and
you know the black friday man,that's when I top off.
Jason (01:10:06):
Yeah, there you go.
Please talk to the guys overthere.
I racing, tell them not tochange the.
Jeff (01:10:10):
Thing okay, yeah I yeah, I
don't think they will hey so
Nim kind of dovetailing intowhat you were talking about, the
employees do most of your, orhow much a percentage of your
employees actually racethemselves.
Nim (01:10:25):
So I Nim Cross and I am in
charge of the company racing
league.
Oh, what a group that would be,but we don't really.
We used to do a league likeevery Friday and stuff like that
, but it's too hard to do it.
(01:10:46):
So we have a thing now where wecall it the weekly challenge and
everybody signs up and they putwhat races that they're going
to do every week, what seriesthey're going to run, and we
input all of everybody inputstheir results into the
spreadsheet and so if a bunch ofus are running the Gen 4 car,
(01:11:07):
we all put our results in thereevery week and we have our own
little point standings and wehave at least two dozen
different series thateverybody's running in and not
everybody at iRacing races oniRacing, but a fair amount do
and the whole idea about usdoing this kind of thing where
(01:11:28):
we compare results and weencourage each other and I do a
little write-up every week.
I use ChatGPT to do a write-upon each series and I'll give it
some kind of snarky review, youknow, about who's doing good and
who's not, and yeah, and, andyou know.
So it's just a way to keep itfun a little bit and keep
everybody excited.
And you know, one of ourchallenges this this season
(01:11:50):
we've got a bunch of guys thatdon't know anything about dirt.
So we're running 305 sprintcars and you know, some guy from
England right now who has neverseen a dirt track in his life
is actually leading the serieswhich is oh wow, that's
hilarious.
Erick (01:12:04):
Yeah, but, like I said,
we have we have fun with it.
Nim (01:12:07):
It's a.
It's a good way to escape alittle bit from your, from your
work, and what I people to do isthey look.
You know you work hard on thisgame, you got to take some time
to enjoy it and that keeps youknow, keeps your passion, going
there you go yeah 100.
Jason (01:12:21):
It keeps everything you
know fresh.
Yeah, in my opinion, all right.
So the next question um, doesiRacing collaborate with any
real drive, any real race cardriver to help with the I?
I guess, the driving model, theexperience, all the time you
(01:12:42):
know, all the time there isnothing there.
Nim (01:12:44):
I don't think there's any
car that we work on where we
don't collaborate with realworld drivers.
Wow, okay, that's cool.
Yeah, there, there are always,uh, collaborations going on.
I talked to you about Dirt.
I was involved in getting Dirtgoing, things like that.
Christopher Bell, larson, awhole bunch of different guys
were involved in helping us sortthat out.
(01:13:07):
Max Verstappen helps us outwith different things.
Jeff (01:13:12):
I heard of that guy Name
once or twice.
Excuse me.
Nim (01:13:14):
There's just no big deal.
Every series that guy Name onceor twice Excuse me, there's
just no big deal.
Every series every series,every single series, in every
car that we make has a realworld driver to help us dial it
in.
Jason (01:13:28):
You can't beat that.
How do you compete against that?
Jeff (01:13:31):
You can't Come on the next
person that I hear complaining
about the subscription.
Wise, I'm just gonna slap themand be like listen to this,
listen to this podcast yeah, youknow.
Nim (01:13:40):
Yeah, you talk about the
subscription.
A lot of these guys do itbecause they're passionate about
it also, so you know, I don'tknow if there's somebody out
there that's getting paid orwhatever, I don't ever ask about
that kind of thing, but I knowuh bell and those guys they but
even if they did, sponsor theircars and we we have sponsored
their cars before and thingslike that but I they were.
(01:14:02):
They helped us out because theywere passionate about what
we're doing also right, yeah,yeah, I'm.
Jason (01:14:08):
All I want to say is even
if they did got paid, get paid.
Excuse me, I'm the end user.
I'm getting all the benefits ofa car that was, you know, has
data from a real life driver.
That's all I need to know.
Justifiable yeah, a hundredpercent, they can get paid all
day it would be.
Nim (01:14:26):
You're right, it would be
justifiable.
I didn't mean it in that sense.
I was just trying to trying tonot put the the outlook of the
driver was getting paid for this.
That's why they did it, youknow.
I just want to let you knowthat these guys usually do it
because they love what we'redoing and they want to be
involved.
Jason (01:14:43):
Okay, that's even better.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Erick (01:14:48):
And I guess, speaking of
real life drivers, I know one of
the big, the big comparisons.
You know watching guys likeDaniel Mor morad.
They everybody's obsessed withthe braking model and you know
how close is it to real life andyou know what active pedals
coming out and things like that,um, what I guess what was kind
of the what's the main like, Iguess, idea or like, I guess,
(01:15:13):
ideal or approach to the brakingmodel in our racing?
Nim (01:15:21):
Well, I don't know.
As far as the physics thing,when you're going that deep, I'm
really not involved.
But I haven't gotten a chanceto test out the active stuff yet
.
I thought about when I wasbuilding my rig back there
whether I could get the activepedal or not, but I didn't yet.
Um, but, uh, when we're talkingabout you know, like daniel, you
(01:15:44):
know helping out with the gt3or gt4 cars, um, I'm sure the
people and a lot of theengineers that work on our
physics models are real lifewere or were real life engineers
on real racing teams.
So those, those guys that areworking on the physics, are
people that worked on real life.
(01:16:05):
Uh, you know race teams anddoing this kind of stuff.
So, you know, the people thatare working on the braking model
are people that are familiarwith the braking models in these
cars.
Erick (01:16:20):
Wow, man, that makes
sense.
Jason (01:16:21):
Yeah, okay.
Jeff (01:16:24):
All right, so I got, I'm
going to roll the next one.
Here is where do you seeiRacing in the next two years
and then in the next five years?
What does that outlook?
Nim (01:16:36):
look like for iRacing.
So you know, I don't know thatI'm the best guy to talk to you
about this kind of stuff.
I don't make that kind ofdecisions.
Jason (01:16:44):
You are the best guy to
talk to In your opinion, in my
opinion, in Nimcross's opinion.
Nim (01:16:52):
You know we're going to
continue to grow.
You know, customer-wise anddriver-wise we are going to.
We'll be releasing some newconsole games and we'll be
looking at the console market.
The NASCAR game is coming outthis fall and it's going to be
spectacular.
It's absolutely going to beamazing, you know we've already
(01:17:15):
done the dirt games and we'rejust going to bring a casual
racing user, um, in with thosegames.
That that is going to become amore dedicated user and hobbyist
and become a part of iRacingand it's just going to continue
to grow as it is.
We're going to add new series.
(01:17:36):
The bigger series that you guysthink of and love hopefully
will be there F1.
I didn't say any words, but Itell you what when we talk about
every series in the world, itis our goal to have them one day
.
Whatever you can think of, whenwe talk about every series in
(01:17:57):
the world, it is our goal tohave them one day you know, so
you know fair.
Jason (01:17:58):
Whatever you can think of
whatever whatever you can think
of.
Nim (01:18:03):
Whatever you can think of,
we want it on iRacing.
Erick (01:18:07):
There you go.
Jason (01:18:08):
Okay, well said, well
said them.
Cross I, I I'm telling you sohere for the um I I, I'm telling
you so here for the excuse mefinal question Before we close
this one down.
We absolutely love having youon the show.
This is awesome.
The time is flying.
Right now it's completely goingnuts.
(01:18:29):
For the final question uh, whatis a feature you still haven't
seen in iRacing that you wish itexisted today?
Uh, come on, reveal it.
Nim (01:18:46):
Yeah, I don't think about,
I don't know, Um the.
I guess like when you hit awall, a fist comes out and
punches you in the head, orsomething like that we could do.
Oh my God, I don't know.
We talk about different things.
One of the great things aboutiRacing and when this whole
(01:19:13):
thing was conceptualized back inthe early 2000s, we knew that
there would be third-partyaspects that come aboard.
I don't know that any of uscould have dreamt of what is
actually going on.
Jason (01:19:28):
The.
Nim (01:19:28):
Sim Racing Expo is
happening in September.
Jason (01:19:30):
Yes, it is.
Nim (01:19:33):
Who would have thought of
that?
And it's not just the fact thatthis is happening.
All the vendors that are goingto be there are absolutely
amazing, you know, and you'llwalk from one space to another
and you're like I want that andI want that.
Jason (01:19:49):
Oh, yeah, it's going to
be a problem.
Nim (01:19:52):
You're going to meet
incredible people, people that
are going to be there.
And so when you ask me what Iwant to see, the sim racing has
(01:20:18):
already overstepped what I everthought it could be, by so much
that, when you ask me that, Ihonestly don't know about
whatever else.
It is because it is farexceeded what, what I I have
ever dreamed of, and it'sabsolutely amazing.
Uh, if you get into a raceright now, especially if you,
you know, monitors are great andthings like that but if you put
yourself in a vr situation andyou're running, uh, if you're
running down the straightaway atlamaze and it's raining, you
know you could be scared todeath, just like you would be in
a real car.
(01:20:38):
And the fact that we haveachieved that sense of realism
is absolutely astounding to me,and so I don't mean to
disappoint you with an answerthat I don't have an answer of
what else there is that I want,because it's so far exceeded
what I thought it would ever beand what the whole third party
(01:21:00):
realm of it has become that Ijust don't have an answer for
that question.
Jason (01:21:05):
No, you're not
disappointing.
Jeff (01:21:08):
No, not the least of it.
The least, that's a perfectanswer yeah.
Nim (01:21:13):
All right, yeah.
Jason (01:21:15):
That's what's up, man.
I mean, mean, I do like thepunch in the face, man,
especially.
What else?
Nim (01:21:21):
could we have?
You know, I I tell you whatthat new, uh, that new simicube
2 pro that I have now has aboutbroken my wrist about three or
four times already there you go.
Jason (01:21:33):
I know, I.
You know what it is.
It's a sense of immersion.
When I crash the car, I usuallylet go of the wheel, I do too.
Nim (01:21:38):
Yeah, I have let go, but
not far enough away and just got
whacked by that thing.
You got to make sure you pullyour hands all the way.
Jason (01:21:47):
One time I left the
engine running and something got
loose on the bottom side of therig and the car rolled into a
wall and the wheel jerked likethat and straight up slapped me
in the face.
Erick (01:21:59):
yeah, I was mad as hell
yeah, I want.
Jason (01:22:00):
This is the first time I
ever I didn't get marked up.
You know I was you know,because if I got marked up, I
would have made up the biggestexcuse, you know this guy was
huge.
Erick (01:22:12):
Yeah, this guy was big.
It was 10 of them, no way.
Nim (01:22:17):
I would have said my sim
racing wheel did it.
I would have said my sim racingwheel did it and that's what
happened.
But I've been there, I'veleaned forward and I've been
like the car's just sittingthere and all of a sudden
something happens and the wheelgoes spinning.
And it's right, by my face itis smack and this is no warning.
Scary, yeah, yeah and this isno warning, yeah.
Jason (01:22:34):
Yeah, you got to be
careful with that.
All right.
So we're reaching the end hereof the episode.
We're going to go through theroundtable Guys.
Is there anything that we wantto ask Mr Dimcross before we
release him from the Chicanepodcast?
Jeff (01:22:51):
No man, I said it earlier
the industry is in the best of
hands.
There's an army of peoplebehind you I'm sure from iRacing
that are just as passionate asyou are.
Iracing is in great hands.
The future is in good hands.
Nim (01:23:07):
I'm riding on their
coattails.
They're not behind me.
Jeff (01:23:10):
Give yourself a little bit
more credit there.
Buddy, it's been an absolutehonor and privilege to talk to
you here.
Erick (01:23:15):
Thank you very much
pleasure is mine, thank you yeah
all right, eric what you gotyep, I mean, I've said it before
and I said again whenever I seepeople that have aligned their
lives with their passion, it'sinspirational to me.
You can feel it, you can see it, smell it and you know, I just
(01:23:36):
see that coming off of you.
When it comes to just the workyou guys do with our racing, um,
I appreciate it.
Um, it's inspiring and you know, just kind of piggybacking off
of what jeff said, you know it'sin great hands and this is
really kind of just thebeginning, especially,
especially in the US, like we'rejust getting going.
It's crazy.
Jason (01:23:57):
In this market?
Yeah, 100%.
So, nim Cross, I don't know man, you joined my stream and I
just I'm so thankful that youknow I had the privilege of
having you know iRacing Chiefsteward in the stream, let alone
send you an impromptu invite tothe show, and you gladly
(01:24:21):
accepted.
You even typed up your emaillike in full view, in the full
public.
I almost went dude you don'thave to do that you can just dm
me, man, just a private messageme like nah, man, here's my
email.
Hit me up like no fear, and inthe same time you were actually
stewarding uh team red line,which was, uh, great news.
(01:24:41):
Um, because, yeah, you guyscare and that's, yeah, that's
where I want to get into.
You know, it's it's people,it's professionals like yourself
that take the hobby and youstill have fun with it, yes, but
you elevate it to aprofessional level and you're
like, hey, man, we're trying tosimulate something as close to
real life as possible andsomething that has repercussions
(01:25:05):
consequences.
How is it that a sim can makeyou think twice about your
actions, which is insane, right?
It's a crazy thing to thinkabout.
So I just want to say you arehighly regarded, thank you so
much.
You're a legend.
You got the holy grail music.
I have to find a way to putthis in the show.
(01:25:27):
I'll find a way.
But I just want to say, hey,man, thank you so much for
coming on, giving you know,coming on the show, giving us
the time of day.
It's been a while and we pushedit out because you're so busy
with having the time of yourlife going to races.
Nim (01:25:43):
He's like, yeah, man I got
a bunch of races to go to, so
yeah, well, I tell you, Iappreciate you guys too and, uh,
thank you for your kindness.
Uh, you guys, um, when I, whenI, you know, being involved in
everything I've been involvedwith which I'm, like I said, I'm
very blessed, can't say itenough Uh, I'm very lucky.
But when I look out and seewhat you guys are doing, you
(01:26:05):
guys are the pad, the samepassion that I have, and that's
what's so exciting.
You guys are doing the fun.
You're doing that team, yourteam racing.
Look at the setups you guys got,look at the podcast you're
doing.
You guys are stepping out andyou're doing your thing and it's
awesome.
It's awesome to see.
It's awesome to see the fun youguys are having.
You're informing everybody elseand you're doing it in a fun,
(01:26:26):
positive way, and I appreciatethat.
Your streams are fun to watch,your videos are fun to watch and
I am very happy to have donethis show with you guys and done
this interview with you guysand, uh, there's anything I can
do going forward.
Jason (01:26:42):
I'm always here for you
guys, man nim cross is wow, man,
that touched me man a littlebit.
Thank you so much, man, Iappreciate it.
Um f1 is the only thing that Iwould ask for.
Nim (01:26:58):
I'll get on it and I'll
talk to the people and we'll see
what we can do.
Appreciate it, get them onlinetoo.
Jason (01:27:04):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, all right.
So thank you so much, guys.
Jeff, welcome back from yourtrip.
Thank you so much for helpingso much with the show.
And in the background,background, you know what I'm
saying, you, you already knowwhat I'm saying.
And, um, there's one more thingthat, uh, that you usually say
uh, generally yeah, come on,drive fast and break late there
(01:27:28):
it is manbut, not in front of the chief
steward man, because, yeah, yeaha little drive for that car in
front of you, yeah.
Visualize the car in front ofyou?
Oh, I got set up for that oneSet up for that one, all right,
guys, and with that, have agreat start of your week.
Thank you.