In this podcast, Jacob Stewart, director of state government relations at the Early Care and Education Consortium, describes what individual states are doing to combat staffing shortages in child care.
Massachusetts, for example, launched a general, statewide workforce bonus for which child care providers are eligible to receive $4,000 per new employee hired and retained for 60 days.
Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Ohio and Pennsylvania have offered multiple bonuses ranging between $300 and $1,200 per worker.
Other states are offering wage enhancements, internship programs, a refundable tax credit, financial support to obtain credentials that are state required as well as enabling employees to leverage their experience to move up career ladders and more!
These findings are part of a data-packed report his organization recently put out titled "The Child Care Workforce Shortage: Solutions from Around the Country."
As of February 2022, two-thirds of providers reported a staffing shortage that affected their ability to serve families; of those, 52% were forced to serve fewer children while 37% had a longer waiting list, according to the report.
Read the full report here!
Listen as Jacob delves into the findings of this report ... and he describes negotiations that are happening for legislation that could help the child care industry despite the demise of the Build Back Better plan.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the childcare business podcast
brought to you by ProCaresolutions.
This podcast is all about givingchildcare, preschool daycare
after school and other earlyeducation professionals, a fun
and upbeat way to learn aboutstrategies and inspiration you
can use to thrive.
You'll hear from a variety ofchildcare thought leaders,
(00:30):
including educators, owners, andindustry experts on ways to
innovate, to meet the needs ofthe children you serve from
practical tips for managingoperations, to uplifting stories
of transformation and triumph.
This podcast will be chalk fullof insights.
You can use to fully realize thepotential of your childcare
business.
(00:50):
Let's jump in.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good morning, everyone.
Welcome again to the childcarebusiness podcast, uh, as is my
custom, um, joined today with aguest that I think is gonna be a
lot of fun to talk to.
In fact, it's our first likesequel on the podcast, you know,
Jacob Stewart with, um, earlycare and education consortium
also known as E C C was with us.
(01:14):
I think it was back in January,uh, Jake, and we talked a little
bit about, you know, some of theinitiatives that your
organization's working on and,and the build back better, you
know, funding and some of theother things that are flowing
into the industry.
Um, but as you guys havecontinued to work, uh, and we've
continued to see some of thecontent you've pushed out, we
just thought it would be a greattime to reconnect and talk, um,
(01:36):
in particular about some of thestaffing topics in our industry.
So, um, welcome back to theshow.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Thanks for having me back.
I had such a good time the firsttime that I was excited to come
back and I'm excited to be thefirst sequel guest.
So thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah.
That's big time, man, to be thefirst to come back a second time
, it's kind of like I wastelling somebody this has
nothing to do with the podcast,but, uh, I recently saw top gun
too.
Like, so, you know, maybe I'mdating myself here, but the
original top gun was from mygeneration.
I think it's only the secondmovie I've seen in a theater,
like in the last three years isreally hard for a sequel to top
(02:16):
the original, but everybody whohad seen it was telling me like,
man, it's a good movie.
It's actually better than thefirst one.
And I, and I concur, I saw it.
It was better than the firstone.
So I was pleasantly surprised.
So super high expectations, nopressure that the sequel here is
gonna be better than the firstshow even.
So, um, maybe as a start
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Pressure at
Speaker 2 (02:35):
All.
yeah, no pressure atall.
We'll have some fun with it,Jake, just for maybe those who
didn't hear the first podcast,just to give a little context
around E C, C and your role withthe organization.
Can you just talk a little bitabout what you guys do as an org
and then specifically what yourfocus is?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah.
So E CUC is a national nonprofitadvocacy organization that
functions similarly to anassociation in that our members
are childcare providers.
Um, they are typically multi, uh, state childcare providers and
altogether our members operateover 6,000 centers across 48
(03:15):
states.
These are centers that serve avariety of families.
Um, many are who pay out ofpocket for childcare, which we
know is becoming increasinglymore expensive, but we also have
many centers that utilizefinancial assistance.
So they serve families utilizingsubsidies or vouchers.
They have head startpartnerships.
They have military partnerships,business partnerships to provide
(03:37):
onsite childcare.
So, uh, a diverse array ofchildcare services that they
provide.
And really our goal is to try toadvocate, to help expand access
to high quality affordablechildcare for, for all families.
And, um, of course that includesa lot of federal advocacy and,
(03:58):
and that federal funding isincredibly important, but states
are the ones that reallyimplement that policy.
So my role specifically is tooversee state policy and
government affairs and reallyhelp educate state policy makers
on the decisions they can makethat will help providers serve
more families.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Nice.
And so your participants or yourmembers, even though it does it
doesn't represent everychildcare provider nationwide.
I think it is a sampling of whatevery childcare provider has
interests in.
And so I think your members, thefeedback loop, if I understand
it correctly, Jake is you've gotmember organizations nationwide
(04:38):
that represent up to 6,000centers.
They come to you and you guysmeet and you talk about like,
Hey, these are the challengesthat we're seeing.
This is, this is what we'reseeing impact the families in
our communities.
This is what we're seeing impactour operations.
And here's how we think thegovernment could assist or at
least be aware of what'shappening.
And as you guys meet, then youkind of take that information
(05:01):
and you're, and you say, Hey,we're gonna go talk to the
government entities andorganizations that can actually
help impact these things.
It fair description.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah.
That, that's a greatdescription.
And I would just add to that,that what we advocate for is
what's good for all providers atthe end of the day, because what
our members are struggling withis what everyone else is
struggling with in the field.
And so, um, we really do try tobe the voice for providers, um,
with, with the goal of trying toserve more families.
(05:31):
Um, and we know that there is abig interest and a big push in
trying to get childcare more,um, accessible and more
affordable.
And we are here to try to helphopefully bring some solutions
to the table.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, it's amazing.
I, one of the things that I tookaway from our last conversation,
which just shed some light onthis whole conversation for me
was, you know, if you, if youtake the work that you guys are
doing all the way down to anindividual family in an
individual community, somewherein the United States, like the
subsidy reimbursement that acenter receives for that family
and the amount they receive andhow it's delivered, doesn't just
(06:10):
magically happen without anyconversation or discussion from
groups like yours, both, youknow, at the state level, but
then at the national level.
And so you, you know, even foran individual provider who isn't
involved with your organizationor familiar with it, the role
that you guys play is reallysignificant, cuz it, you can see
it in any individual community,any individual center and
(06:33):
parents that receive subsidy oreven families that are paying
private pay and the, the, thefactors of cost and so forth to
them.
Um, there's organizations at thestate level and nationally,
obviously that are a big part ofthat.
And so that was a big takeawayfor me.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah.
And one issue that has plaguedthis field, well, there's many
issues that have plagued thisfield for a while, but one is
that this field really lackedvoices that were really chiming
into policymakers on, on theright steps to take, to help
support providers.
Why is that?
Well it's because providers arebusy and they are operating a
(07:08):
business and being a childcareprovider is hard work.
And so really there really isn'ta lot of time then to go and,
and meet and connect with policymakers and their staff and
educate them on everything thatneeds to go on.
Um, you know, a lot ofindustries have a lot of
lobbying support that helps doexactly that, but this is an
(07:30):
industry that really hasn't hadthat for a long time.
And therefore I think over time,it's just become more difficult
for providers.
And I think over the last fewyears and, and hopefully moving
forward, we, we finally, we'refinally starting to see that
come forward.
Um, E C C is just one of now,you know, several voices that
are trying to come to federaland state policy makers.
(07:53):
Um, I think we're in a bigmoment with childcare right now.
People are finally recognizingwhy it's so important.
It, you know, unfortunately tooka pandemic to finally highlight
the, the need for childcare, butthis has been something that has
been important for families forwell before the pandemic as
well.
Um, but we want to takeadvantage of this time.
And now that we have policymakers finally recognizing that
(08:15):
this is important, it's time totake it to the next level and
talk about what policy actionsneed to be done to truly support
families, of course, but thenproviders who are the ones that
are working with families andtaking care of the children, um,
in order to ma maximize thenumber of children that can be
(08:35):
served.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, you're right.
And it, and I, it's, it's twothings I think, you know, it's
supporting providers, like yousaid, in families, but also
sustaining these businesses andfinding, you know, um, processes
and legislation, part of that,and just a process that's going
to allow providers to runsustainable businesses and
you're right.
Like I think one of the otherthings that from our last
(08:57):
conversation that really stuckout to me was you, you know,
you're not just a voice for thelarge national chains or for
just, you know, private paidchildcare programs.
And it's, it's the entireindustry home.
You know, sometimes we, we seethe conversations about how home
providers are treated or howcenter based programs or group
programs or publicly fundedprograms.
(09:17):
But it it's really in a lot ofways, all of those different
types of childcare programs arealigned and you guys are a voice
for all of them in terms of,it's not just one or the other,
it's the industry as a whole,which I think is really
important.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah.
We run, uh, we run an advocacycall every two weeks.
It's called champions of mixeddelivery.
And it's, it's all about tryingto push for a mixed delivery
preschool system, which, youknow, as a reminder is a system
in which parents can navigate,you know, a choice of providers.
So that could be a choice ofcenter based providers, uh,
public schools, if they wanna,you know, send their child to
(09:54):
school for pre, uh, forpreschool, um, family home, you
know, home based childcareproviders, all of it matters.
We're looking for a system where, um, we think the healthiest
systems are really where parentscan navigate all of these
options.
Um, unfortunately, you know,there are many parts of the
country where the system is nooptions, right.
And there, there really isnothing theirs, but we do want
(10:17):
to make sure that, um, everybodyis having their voice
represented when it comes tochildcare providers.
And we know that that's morethan just centers.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah.
And you guys get a collectiveset of information that allows
you to have a really, I think,unique perspective on the
industry that you can then takeand champion, you know, kind of
the overall, um, causes that aregoing to impact all of us
positively.
I, I do wanna talk specificallyaround staffing cuz you know,
you guys published recently a, areally interesting article or,
(10:48):
or study that I think shed somelight on, you know, states that
are navigating some of thesechallenges, uh, well, and what
we can learn from those andmaybe apply in other states.
But I was hoping just to get anupdate from you before jumping
into that, on some of the buildback better and just national
funding, I think last time wespoke, some of that legislation
was still like in Congress andbeing voted on and the outcomes,
(11:12):
are we still in that spot or isthere a little bit more clarity
on what some of the funding tothe industry looks like right
now?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah.
So when we spoke last time and Ibelieve the episode came out in
January, but we recorded it, um,you know, in mid-December and it
was about a week or maybe evenjust a few days before there was
a very crucial announcement froma crucial Senator.
So Senator mansion had announcedthat he was not going to support
(11:39):
bill back better as it waswritten, um, as a review.
So the way bill Beck better waswritten and how it affects, um,
childcare and early learning isthat there were, there were two
sections of the bill.
Um, one was a, a section devotedto childcare, um, that was
really trying to, um, increase,um, the number of families that
would be eligible by increasingthe income eligibility, um, up
(12:02):
to 250% state median income.
And then there was a preschoolsection that was really trying
to provide funding for mixeddelivery preschool and Senator
mansion ultimately decided hedid not want to support this.
Um, and of course, because thisis the budget reconciliation
process and we're in a, we're ina 50, 50 split in the Senate,
(12:25):
um, that all but killed, um, thebill in that moment.
Um, at the end of Decemberthere, following that, um, you
know, there were a lot ofquestions on if bill Beck better
was, was going to make you comeback.
And if so, what it would looklike a lot of behind the scenes
conversations were, werehappening and have been
(12:45):
happening for the last sixmonths.
And I, we didn't see necessarilya lot of movement legislatively,
um, until the last few monthslast month, uh, Senator Patty
Murray, who is the chair of thehealth education, labor, um, and
pensions committee.
(13:06):
So that's the Senate committeethat would handle the, the
childcare and early learningissues.
Um, she, and, and Senator TimKane, uh, released a proposal,
um, basically it's a, it was arewrite of the childcare and
preschool sections, um, comparedto what we saw back in December
and their hopes by, byrewriting, it was having it be
(13:30):
something that was more tenable,especially for Senator mansion
and Senator cinema, a lot of themoderate Democrats and, um, by
doing so that childcare andpreschool would be included in
any sort of budgetreconciliation package with 50
votes that might, you know, comeup over the summer.
(13:51):
The, the new bill, uh, changeswere overall really great.
Uh, so I'll it, a lot of it wasdedicated funding for the
childcare and development blockgrant or CCD B G.
That is the primary source offederal funding.
Uh, 72 billion, I believe overfive years, um, is what it was
trying to look at, which is ahuge increase when we look at,
(14:13):
um, you know, what it iscurrently in addition to that
though, um, there's also fundingfor head start.
Um, some other purposes, one ofthe innovative items that I saw
in, in the rewrite had to dowith, um, wage supplement
grants.
So essentially, um, they decidedto take great things that we're
seeing with the American rescueplan and the stabilization
(14:36):
grants that a lot of states are,are dispersing now.
And they're trying to capitalizeon the success of that.
Um, I think fortunately through,um, not only our advocacy, but
the advocacy of a lot ofproviders, um, the concern about
wages has been, I thinkdefinitely heard by, uh, a lot
of members of Congress.
(14:56):
And, uh, the concern of course,is that, you know, if there's
gonna be an increase in wages,um, for childcare staff, there
needs to be federal funding andsupport to make that happen
because a lot of providers justdon't have the profit margins to
make this happen.
This is already a very, um,heavy labor intensive industry.
And, uh, there's just not a lotof room in the budgets of
(15:20):
childcare providers to get thosesubstantial increases, to
compensation that people wannasee.
Um, so what these, uh, uh,compensation grants would do is
essentially do very functionvery similarly to the
stabilization grants, give themoney to the providers first, so
that they have that money andare able to spend it on
(15:41):
compensation, which we think isa much more sustainable approach
to raising compensation inwages.
So, um, all this to say that,uh, the bill has been rewritten
for the childcare and preschoolsections, but we don't know.
Um, well, we don't know a lot ofthings.
We don't know if budgetreconciliation is gonna happen
(16:01):
at all.
And if it does happen, we don'tknow if childcare is going to be
included.
We have heard a lot, we've beenmonitoring the conversations and
, and speeches from Senatormansion.
Um, and there seems to be someback and forth on whether or not
items related to what they callthe care economy.
(16:22):
Um, that includes childcare thatalso includes other types of
care as well, um, would beincluded Senator mansion.
And some others think that thosetypes of items might be better
suited for something by person.
Um, however, I think the otherside of that is, you know, could
we get more funding, morechildcare funding through the 50
(16:44):
vote, uh, budget reconciliationprocess, um, you know, the, the
answers to these are well aboveus.
and, and I think, uh,more negotiations need to happen
on Capitol hill.
Um, but all this to say, thereis a small chance that childcare
would be included in budgetreconciliation if it were to
happen.
Um, but it's not necessarily agreat chance.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Well, and I think that, I mean that, I appreciate
that update.
Actually.
That's a nice overview of kindof where things stand still in
the conversation still beingworked through, you know, at a
federal level.
But I think one of the thingsthat you guys have clearly
stated in all of your studiesand findings is look in order
for us to keep childcare movingforward and sustained.
(17:29):
There has to be long termcommitment from the government
to, to fund and to, um, youknow, stabilize it cause a lot
of the C you know, resourcesthat you've mentioned earlier
are temporary, right?
Like there's money there.
It's still being deployed, butit's, it's on a clock and it's
gonna run out.
I think some of those, um, thosestreams run into 2023, maybe
(17:52):
early 2024.
But as of right now, that's kindof the runway we see with, you
know, federal funding for thechildcare industry.
Yeah,
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Yeah.
And that stabilization funding,which we know is incredibly
important for providers acrossthe country, um, and has, is
really helping to prop up a lotof businesses around the
country.
It does have to be completelyliquidated by September of 2023.
And so we have been articulatingthat as the, the timeline that
(18:24):
Congress has to get somethingacross the finish line.
And yeah, we we've beeneducating lawmakers that once
that funding gets sort of pulledout from under the rug from
providers, um, there's a,there's a big risk to the
industry.
And so we're hoping for somesort of solution, whether it's
through budget reconciliation orsomething by partisan, which,
(18:47):
you know, that's the other thingis that if budget reconciliation
doesn't work out for childcare,it doesn't mean that there can't
be a solution.
We have seen Republicansactually voice their support or
increased investments forchildcare and recognize that
that needs to happen.
Um, actually there was, um,recently a letter from five
Republican senators and it wasled by Senator Burr, who is the
(19:10):
ranking member on the helpcommittee.
And, uh, they came out for theirsupport of doubling CC D B G
within five years.
Um, not necessarily the funding,we were hoping to get out of a
budget reconciliation bill, butat least they are coming to the
table to, um, recognize thatthere needs to be a solution.
And so we are hopeful that atthe very least budget
(19:32):
reconciliation doesn't work out,that something can be done
before the end of this year, um,to ensure that, um, the industry
gets the funding that it needs.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah.
And that's a positive sign, atleast, at least from talking
with you last time and hearingyou talk again today, even
though it's still a work inprogress, seeing some bipartisan
support and people reachingacross the aisle to both
identify Hey childcare.
And that in this industry isextremely important to our
country and our economy, let'sgo figure it out.
And I, and I think Jake, as partof like the work that you guys
(20:03):
are doing, you know, on the, onthe national funding, one of the
things that has come out ofthat, and you made reference to
it a little bit ago, talkingabout, you know, staffing comp
compensation in the industrythat you guys have also been
working, you know, in parallelwith this, of doing some studies
around staffing, the challengesthat we're seeing in the
industry with staffing rightnow, and you, you guys just
(20:26):
recently released a report, uh,or a study on this.
And, and it, you know, I wannatalk specifically about that
because it, it really caught ourattention around some of the
findings that you guys had where, you know, I think 52% of
providers, um, over the lastcouple of years were forced to
serve fewer children because ofstaffing shortages and, and 37%
of providers that you guys workwork with or surveyed had a
(20:50):
longer than normal waiting listbecause it just couldn't enroll
families.
Can you just talk a little bitabout this study and what the
Genesis of the study was, howyou guys approached the study
and then maybe we'll get intosome of the findings.
I, there was, I think about fouror five takeaways that I made
note of about things you guysare seeing certain states do
(21:12):
that are proving successful, butlet's start with the study
itself.
How did you guys start thestudy?
What did the mechanics look liketo kind of pull this information
together?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yeah.
So one thing that I was hearingin a lot from our members was
about the, the staffing crisisin childcare.
And, you know, there's a,there's a staffing shortage in a
number of industries and we'rehearing about it on the news.
Um, but childcare isexperiencing it, um, probably
worse than most.
Um, a lot of this is because it,it was, there was already high
(21:43):
turnover even before thepandemic.
This is a, a field where, um,compensation is, is low and, um,
that, and it's a very demandingjob.
And, you know, between a mix ofthose things, it was leading to
high turnover and then thepandemic happens.
And, um, there have been anumber of, um, early childhood
professionals that may haveretired or have chosen to go
(22:06):
work elsewhere to make moremoney, um, which, you know, you
can make a lot more money doinga lot of other jobs than being
in childcare.
And so, uh, but I think what,what was really concerning of
course is that now, um, this wasactually inhibiting the function
of programs and there are entireclassrooms that are being not
(22:27):
utilized and are essentiallyclosed because there is not a
teacher or a, a staff person forthem to hire.
And so, um, I think with thisreport, our, our approach was
really two things that we wantedto do.
One is we know that states, uh,there are many states around the
country who are at leastattempting to, um, alleviate the
(22:50):
staffing shortage with a numberof innovative policy solutions.
And, and we know that one thingthat states need right now are
ideas.
Uh, what, what are other statesare doing?
What, uh, what's working well,what's not working well.
And so part of this was justwanting to compile some of those
ideas into one resource to sharewith state policy makers about
(23:12):
these ideas that are happeningaround the country.
I think the other piece of thisreport, though, that is really,
really crucial, uh, forpolicymakers, especially to
understand is that the workforceissue is not necessarily caused
by just one thing.
Um, but it is actually amulti-pronged issue that's gonna
require a multi-pronged solutioncompensation absolutely is, is
(23:36):
probably one of the biggestdrivers of the shortage, but we
also know that there are anumber of other topics and
categories that need to beaddressed.
And that compensation alone isnot necessarily going to get us,
um, to, to where we wanna be interms of hiring.
So we tried to weave togetherthe, the narrative of this, uh,
workforce shortage, which ofcourse includes compensation,
(23:59):
but it also includes educationalsupport and career development.
Um, it includes hiringprocesses.
I think, uh, for me, one of thethings that, that really
bother me the most when it comesto, uh, the, the staffing crisis
is that when they, whenproviders do find someone that
they can hire, um, that personsometimes, uh, is unable to work
(24:23):
for one month, two month, twomonths, sometimes even longer,
all because they can't get theirbackground check back in time
from the state, something that'scompletely outta their control.
I mean, if, if that were me, ifI were applying for a job that,
that wasn't paying that much.
And then on top of that, Icouldn't even start the job for
another two to three months or,you know, and sometimes the
(24:46):
backlogs on those backgroundchecks can be even longer.
I'm I am going to find anotherjob.
I need to support myself somehowduring that time.
And if I'm unable to work,that's a huge barrier right
there.
Um, subsidy policy as well.
We know that subsidy reimbursalrates are incredibly low.
So we really tried to tie all ofthis into a single narrative to
(25:07):
really, um, educate states thatthere are a number of, uh,
solutions that they need to bethinking about in order to help
alleviate this problem.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah.
And those, and you hit the, kindof the, the points that I pulled
out of the study.
When I read through it, therewas, you know, about five
different points.
And I wanted to see if you couldshare, like, just from your
findings, some of the states orthings that you're seeing in
terms of ideas that, that havesome traction and have some
momentum to actually help inthose areas.
(25:39):
So the, the first one you'vementioned it a few times, which
is, I, I think probably the mostobvious one is the compensation
component.
You know, we're losing quality,you know, uh, professionals in
our industry, and we're notrecruiting new professionals in
some ways, because of thecompensation is just not
competitive across, you know,other industries.
(26:00):
Can you talk about like, arethere some states that have
found some ways to overcome thathurdle and any examples you can
give that you guys are findinglike, Hey, that's a nice model.
That's on the right track.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah.
So through, and, and I'll startoff by saying a lot of this was
done through the, um, APAfunding, the American rescue
plan act funding and, and theother stabilization funding that
has been given to states sincethe pandemic.
So we always say that because aswe discussed earlier, you know,
this is temporary funding.
And if, if we're really lookingfor long-term solutions, then
(26:32):
the federal government is gonnaneed to step up to make sure
that funding continues.
Um, but a lot of states havebeen looking into ways to, uh,
compensate the workforce withoutnecessarily making it a mandate,
um, from providers.
And by doing that, um, or manyof these solutions have involved
some sort of bonus pay orcompensation grants that states
(26:54):
are offering.
So a number of states have donethis.
Um, I think, you know, one ofthe earlier states we've we saw
do this was Georgia.
Um, I think was one of the firstones and they offered, uh, what
they called these power paymentsfor the workforce.
Um, it was basically a$1,000bonus.
Um, and actually since then,Georgia has now offered multiple
of these bonuses.
(27:15):
Um, that has been really helpfulto just again, um, having that
additional, um, salary add onwhich not only will help recruit
more staff, but at least retainstaff.
If they know that there's abonus, that's gonna be coming
down the pipe that that's,that's an incentive perhaps for,
for staff to say, um, since thenwe've seen a number of other
(27:37):
states also step up, um, a lotof like$1,000 bonuses, similar
to Georgia.
Some states have provided evenmore than that.
So, um, Alabama, um, made acommitment to do eight quarterly
payments of$1,500 for full timestaff.
So, you know, added togetherthat something like$12,000, you
know, increase to their salaryover a period of two years.
(27:59):
And I think by making itquarterly, again, it really
helps with that retentionbecause then the worker knows
that, you know, at the, at somepoint in the quarter, and then
the next quarter in the nextquarter, they'll get that bonus
for, for sticking around longer,which is really helpful for
programs.
Um, I think probably the biggestannouncement we've heard
recently came outta WashingtonDC.
Um, and they are gonna besending 10 to$14,000 bonus
(28:23):
checks to full-time staff.
Um, they're also doing bonuschecks, uh, for part-time staff
for, uh, five to$7,000.
Um, so it's really great thatthey're recognizing part-time
staff as well.
Um, but a number of states havedone bonus pay initiatives, and
we hope that more states do thator really think about how they
can, um, offer that.
And, and kind of onerecommendation I would add to
(28:45):
that is anything the state cando to help again with their
retention component, um, becausethese workers definitely deserve
bonus pay and then, and thenleave a couple months later and,
and that's never necessarilyhelpful.
So any, any way that the statecould set it up to, um, really
help incentivize the worker tostick around and still access
(29:06):
those benefits, that would bereally helpful.
Um, and then some statesactually have launched
specifically, uh, recruitinggrants.
So, um, states like, uh, Iowaand New Jersey have a
recruitment and retention bonus.
So that means, um, if this is anew hire, they can, they get an
extra thousand dollars, um, forbeing a new hire.
(29:27):
So we think that's a really goodidea of helping to attract new
talent as well.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Have the states to your, to your knowledge, Jake
have, have the states made iteasy for those grants and those
bonus payments and those, um,you know, subsidies to be easily
accessible.
Like, do they get paid directlyto the staff at the centers or
do they flow through theprovider and then get handed?
And, and I guess in yourexperience, is there a best
(29:53):
practice or a preference, or aslong as the money's there, it's
good either way.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
So the answer is both, we've seen states have it
directly paid to the providerfrom the state or to the
employee, I should say, from thestate.
Um, and, uh, the provider mayneed to give some information
or, you know, might need to, youknow, still do things on their
end.
Um, but then there's also beenweight, uh, bonuses that have
gone through the provider.
(30:19):
And then the provider will, youknow, has to maybe sign an atta
station or, or some sort ofagreement.
And then, um, they have someleeway on, on how, and when that
money gets spent, um, you know,we would definitely be more
supportive of that approachsimply because each business is
sort of trying out their ownsolution to help recruit and
(30:42):
retain staff.
And I think sort of whatever youcan do to give businesses that
flexibility, or make sure thatthere's no duplication of
efforts or, you know, would,would always be helpful, but
that said any, any of this ishelpful if it goes directly to
the employee, that is, that isfine too, because at the end of
the day, just making sure thatsomething is happening to help,
(31:05):
um, incentivize people to stayor, or come into the field is
really the ultimate goal.
But, um, I think I just, I'malways the type of person that
you wanna avoid duplication and,and wanna make things as
efficient as possible.
And I think, um, you know,there's ways to have it run
through the provider and thenthe provider can show on the
back ends that, um, they have,you know, done the right steps
(31:29):
that the state wants them totake.
Um, but they at least haveflexibility in, in getting there
Speaker 2 (31:34):
In how they do that.
And you guys have also foundlike one of the other, you know,
kind of findings from your studywas around states that are doing
a good job around educationalsupport and career development,
because we do hear that a lot aswell.
And you've mentioned this a fewtimes and I think rightly so
compensation is extremelyimportant.
Like we need to pay ourprofessionals and quality
(31:55):
workers, uh, the right wage, butthat's not always everything
culture inside of a, the fourwalls of a childcare program are
really important.
And, and what the mission thatthey're on the team that they're
a part of, we've heard a lot ofproviders talk about that, but
also just the career trackingand the career pathing.
You've seen some states do someinteresting things around that.
(32:16):
Can you speak to any examplesthat you guys have found on that
area?
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Yeah, so we, and it's a collective, we, uh, need to
have a conversation about thefact that this is not only a low
pay job, but it's verydemanding, not in term, not only
in terms of beyond the day, butin the requirements that these,
uh, workers have to go through.
And, um, in order to, you know,there's pathways that they have
(32:40):
to achieve and there's coursethere's extra coursework there's
, um, in some cases they mightneed to attain a bachelor's
degree to get to the next leveland, and, and try to, you know,
become a lead teacher or, youknow, whatever it is they're
trying to do.
Um, and these are burdens and,and sometimes not only time
burdens, but financial burdens,there's an expectation that the
(33:03):
childcare worker, um, pays forthese in an already low paying
job.
It, we need to have an honestconversation about that, but at
the same time, quality isimportant.
And we do wanna make sure thatthose that are working with
their children and are educatingthem, um, do have the experience
and the knowledge necessary tomake sure that this is a, a high
quality environment.
(33:23):
So what we've, what a number ofstates have been doing have
they've been trying to offer,um, flexibility or alternative
pathways to make it moreaccessible for childcare workers
to move up a career ladder.
Um, one example, um, is comingout of Massachusetts, or at
least they announced it and, andwe're looking forward to it.
(33:45):
Um, they are hoping to have a, acareer pathway that's rooted in
experience rather than just in,um, degrees and credentialing,
because we know that experienceis a, a, a huge factor when it
comes to, uh, serving children.
And in some cases, um, it, itprobably matters even more
having that experience.
And so, you know, essentiallyMassachusetts is asking the
(34:08):
question, how can we translatethat experience, um, into, you
know, hours or into coursework,um, in a way that makes sense,
uh, that is still good forchildren, but enables, uh,
providers that do have thatexperience to move up later.
Um, we've seen states like, um,Colorado Del Delaware, Oregon,
(34:29):
and North Carolina, they'reexperimenting with internships.
So, um, this is sort of a, a wayfor, uh, workers to start
they're on the job.
Um, you know, training andexperience, and having this
being incorporated into aninternship that might then lead
to a, uh, a child developmentassociate, uh, or CDA as we like
(34:51):
to call it in the field.
Um, those sorts of, um, uh,initiatives, in addition to
scholarships, we've seen somestates offer scholarships for
associates, bachelors andmaster's degree because I'm of
the opinion that that burdenshould not be on the worker.
And it would be great if, ifstates could really pick up the
tab on that.
Um, but, but those sorts ofinitiatives are incredibly
(35:12):
helpful and that really booststhe morale, right?
When it it's a big differencewhen, uh, you, when we're
talking about a low paying job,and then you suddenly have to do
extra work, so you get low pay,but when the state comes out and
says, well, we're gonna pay forthis, or, or we're going to
offer these flexibilities, um,that, that is a big boost to
(35:33):
morale.
The, the last thing I'm gonnasay on this, um, and something
that I hope gets talked aboutmore loan forgiveness.
I mean, there's been a number ofchildcare workers that have
already taken out loans to get,um, you know, the, an associates
or bachelors or masters.
Um, and I think we need to talkabout loan forgiveness with our,
our childcare workers.
I know that, um, that issomething that is being explored
(35:56):
by a few states right now, thisidea for, uh, loan forgiveness.
That was, um, it was actuallyintroduced, um, in a, in a
Massachusetts bill recently.
Uh, we'll see if that getssigned into law and actually
implemented, but, um, yeah, Ireally don't think that
childcare workers should bepaying out of pocket for, um,
doing something that we know isa, uh, public service that is
(36:18):
desperately needed.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah.
That's needed for the economy.
I, I totally agree with that.
And I love what you were sayingabout what Massachusetts is
doing around.
Like, I, I don't, it's almostlike an apprenticeship program
or at least giving you creditfor being in the classroom,
doing the work and learning, youknow, under somebody who's, you
know, got the rightcertifications and can pull you
along as opposed to the extratime and financial resource to
(36:41):
go to school.
And maybe that's always gonna bea part of it, but I, I like the
direction that is heading thatthat resonates to me, like as
something that's common sensemakes sense.
Let's make it easier, greatrecruiting tool for providers to
be able to say, Hey, coming intothe industry, you've got a path
to progress your career withouta huge outlay of additional
(37:03):
financial resource on your sideor time outside of your already
super, you know, intensive job.
Uh, so I, I like that you guysalso found, I know the subsidy
piece is another one of thesebuckets that you guys have found
around the system hasn't beenperfect for a long time, but the
ability or the need tostreamline how subsidy programs
(37:26):
work, how it compensatesproviders, how it properly
subsidizes families in need.
Can you, can you just talk aboutthat piece and how you see the
subsidy component playing intothe, the staffing challenges?
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Yeah, so we know that , um, subsidy reimbursement in
most states right now is justtoo low.
Um, and, and there's no, there'sno other way to say it, it, it,
there are states that arereimbursing subsidy, um, at
extremely low levels that I,that do one of two things.
Um, they're either so low thatproviders have no incentive to
(38:01):
accept families utilizingfinancial assistance, or, um,
for those that do, they'reessentially doing so at a loss,
or they're unable to, uh,recuperate, you know, the, the
money that they need, um, inorder to make these larger
structural changes such as, youknow, better compensation.
Um, you know, one example inaddition to the low rates, I
(38:25):
should say, um, it's also veryunstable funding.
So a lot of states, I would saythe, the vast majority of states
are still reimbursing based offof a child's attendance.
Um, well, that is really hardbecause, you know, children
don't necessarily come every day.
And, uh, that means that it's anunstable source of funding,
whereas the provider could, youknow, easily just save that slot
(38:49):
for a private pay family andstill be able to get the money
there.
Um, but when, you know, tying itback to the workforce, and I
think this is an important partfor, uh, policy makers to
understand, even if the child isnot there, the worker still is,
and if we want this funding atall, to really help support that
worker's, um, you know, salary,then it, then it needs to follow
(39:12):
the worker, not necessarily thechild's attendance.
So one thing we've been pushingfor is to, um, start paying on
enrollments rather thanattendance, make it a more
stable funding stream.
Not only will you help thoseproviders that accept subsidy to
recuperate some of that fundingthat can go towards investments
in their program and staffing.
(39:33):
Um, but you also are going toincentivize more providers to
potentially accept families onsubsidy.
You might be giving subsidyfamilies more options as a
result of, of doing that.
We have seen a lot of states dothis, um, temporarily, at least.
So California, Colorado,Kentucky, Nevada, um, have all
temporarily, at least paid onenrollment.
(39:54):
We have seen some states, um,look into doing this
permanently.
Um, and there is somelegislation in those states.
So New Jersey and Massachusettshas legislation to make that, um
, a permanent change.
I will say this was an issue inNew Jersey at the end of last
year's session.
Um, and actually the governor,uh, veto did the bill, even
(40:14):
though it passed, um, uh, prettymuch unanimously out of both
chambers, but the reason for theveto was the concern about
consistent funding.
And so this is where we go backto why the federal funding is
important, because if statesdon't have the confidence that
there is going to be enoughmoney to make these changes,
(40:35):
it's a lot more difficult, butwhat states can at least do for
now is, uh, you know, at leastit's fine to make these
temporary, you know, we wouldsay temporary changes are better
than no changes at all.
Some states have thought throughthis well, so, um, Georgia, I'm
gonna mention Georgia again.
Um, they made an announcementlast year that they are going to
(40:57):
increase reimbursement rates by15% across the board for all
categories through, uh,September, 2020, which is the,
uh, last date that they can usethat funding.
We really encourage states totry to maximize, even if it's
gonna be temporary to maximize,um, the, the amount of time, um,
that they can, you know, promotea policy for, because that helps
(41:20):
on the provider side forproviders to plan and then adapt
to that policy.
So now at the very least inGeorgia providers know that they
can rely on that for at leasttwo years, which is helpful, um,
because that's two years worthof enrollment.
That's two years worth of apolicy changes at the business
level, um, that can at leasthelp align with the state's
(41:42):
goals of, of getting more lowincome families serve
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Well.
And then to your point abouttying that to that staffing
component, if a, if a providerfeels comfortable with that
consistent influx of subsidy andan increase in subsidy, or at
least the consistency of it,then they're going to be more
confident in their hiringpractices about being able to go
and, you know, increase pay totheir existing staff or
retention, and also, you know,to up what they're able to offer
(42:09):
new staff as well.
Um, so I like that.
And I, and I think, you know,it's interesting, I don't know,
in, in all of the work that youguys have done around that
particular topic subsidy, if theconversation between how
subsidies work in, in earlychildhood differ from the public
school system, because if I'mnot mistaken, I mean, in the
public school system that thatfunding that comes to the school
(42:31):
district is not based on astudent's attendance, it's based
on enrollment, right?
And so there's a distinctionbetween how that money flows and
how it's monitored.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
Yeah.
And in fact, it, I, if a publicschool's funding was, uh, based
on children's attendance, thenthat public school would
absolutely struggle and, andmight even close because it's
just so inconsistent.
Um, and especially when we talkabout programs that are serving
low income families, you know,there's a lot of data out there
to suggest that, you know, forvarious reasons, low income
(43:03):
families are, are likely to havemore absences, you know, maybe
due to inconsistencies or, oreven you think of a parent's
work schedule.
Right.
Yeah.
And, you know, low incomefamilies often have to juggle
work schedules that are, are notnine to five.
They're actually veryinconsistent and their childcare
needs are already very, verydifferent than the typical nine
(43:23):
to five schedule.
And yet you, you, you have areimbursement method that is, is
acting as if they would be on aregular nine to five day to day.
And so, um, that's somethingthat we've been trying to make,
you know, educate policy makerson.
I will say that, um, I, I don'tthink a lot of lawmakers
(43:44):
understand just how crucialthese reimbursement rates are.
Um, I don't think people, um,realize childcare functions a
lot more similarly to healthcarein some ways, you know, when we
talk about reimbursements andcopays and, you know, and it's a
very regulated industry, muchlike healthcare is in many ways
(44:06):
childcare providers and, and theway that the state works with
them is it's very similar tohealthcare providers.
And, um, you know, the statereally needs to think about how
they're supporting thosechildcare providers to carry out
these duties, as opposed to justpiling more on top of them
without offering the support, orat the very least the financial
(44:26):
support needed for providers toreach these goals.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah.
And I think, you know, the topicthat you, that we're talking
about and the conversation wetalked about this on last time
we had a chance to, to talk,Jake is as hard as the last few
years have been.
I do think, you know, I wastalking about this earlier today
with someone around, like, whenwe go through times of like
challenge or pain or adversity,there's there's growth that
(44:51):
happens out of that.
And I think one of the thingsthat, that I'm hopeful of the
silver lining of the last coupleof years is the spotlight that's
shining on the industry.
That's going to allow us toreally upgrade the entire
framework and foundation of theindustry.
Because even though there, itwas a known challenge, pre 2020,
(45:12):
I just don't think it wasgetting the attention it needed.
And there was little cracks likedeath by a thousand cuts
happening, but this just reallyamplified the impact of the
industry and the challenges thatyou know, are are present right
now.
And so it's, it's amazing tohear organizations like E C, C
out advocating, you know, forproviders two last questions.
(45:33):
Cause I know we're, um, almostout of time, but for, for your
organization, like number one,what's next for you guys?
Where is your focus right now?
Is there something specificallythat you're focused on and
number two, like for ouraudience, um, where, what can
they do like as an individualprovider, is there any
recommendations you can makeabout tapping into these
(45:56):
resources or making their voiceheard any, you know, final
takeaways for, for providerslistening?
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Yeah.
So I'll, I'll start off withyour first question about what
we're focused on.
Um, the, the sustainability ofall of this is what matters.
So federal funding is incrediblyimportant.
We want to try to get some sortof federal solution on the table
and pass by the end of the year.
Because as I mentioned before,um, the sustainability of all of
this really is contingent upondependent funding, but we also
(46:27):
want to remind states that theycan go ahead and create the,
these systems themselves, ifthey care about it enough.
And one state that I thinkeverybody should be watching
right now is New Mexico.
Um, the, the amount of policydevelopment that we've seen on
early childhood alone in thelast three or four years from
New Mexico has been incredible.
(46:47):
I think it's gone from a statethat's been very behind on early
childhood to potentially aleader, um, in, in the nation
for many reasons.
You know, they, it, it, the NewMexico started off creating a
new department of earlychildhood that has, um, cabinet
level representation in thestate.
That's already a big gamechanger.
Suddenly you have a singulardepartment that is now focused
(47:10):
on early childhood issues andcan help tie these completing
issues together.
And right now there are 14states that have consolidated,
um, the authority of likepreschool and childcare into one
office or department.
We think that needs to happenmore throughout the country to
really give that, that brainpower and attention at the
(47:32):
department level to solving alot of these issues.
But then New Mexico has also,um, they just updated their
reimbursement rate settingpractice.
So now they use a costestimation model for subsidy
rates.
So instead of just looking atthe price that, um, providers
are charging and, and coming upwith an average like states
(47:52):
currently do New Mexico looks athow much it costs to provide
high quality care and services.
And that includes staffing.
And then they reimburse basedoff of that number.
And that has led to a drasticincrease, especially for infant
and toddler reimbursement rates.
(48:12):
On top of that, they, theylifted, um, eligibility for
financial assistance to 400% ofthe federal poverty line.
So that's one of the highest inthe country now.
Um, so a lot of great thingscoming out of that state.
That's not only good forfamilies, but great for
providers.
This is on top of paying forscholarships for the workforce
and the number of otherinitiatives, um, out there as
(48:33):
well.
So I just really think everybodyshould be paying attention to
New Mexico providers includedand hopefully advocate for that.
Oh, one last thing on NewMexico, they are looking into a,
um, land grant tax.
They're not waiting for thefederal government to finally
grant them the funding.
They are, they are finding analternative funding source that
(48:54):
is from the state that willcontinue to fund these
initiatives for a long time.
That's the, that's the type ofstate leadership that we need in
order to fix a lot of the issuesthat we see in the childcare
system.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Yeah, that's amazing, but it's nice to have a case
study.
So I'm, I'm glad you broughtthat forward, that other states
can go look at and say, what isworking?
What is sustainable?
And we can go actually pull somebest practices from what they're
doing.
So New Mexico is a place to golook if you're, uh, at a state
level, looking for ways toimplement some of these things
(49:28):
Jake's talking about.
Um, and then, yeah, so forproviders, Jake with kind of
like a, a parting shot, so tospeak, what can our audience do,
or, or what should they do morethan being aware of these
things?
Is there actual action that theycould take to have their voice
heard or be a part of theconversation?
Speaker 3 (49:46):
Yes.
So, um, I would say, and I thinkI said this before, but I would
say it again, cause I also wannarecognize, I know that childcare
providers and business owners,they are incredibly busy at the
same time.
So I know that they don'tnecessarily have the, the time
to dedicate to all of thesethings, but there is likely an
organization in their state or,um, you know, some type of a
(50:08):
consortium in their own statethat is paying attention to
these issues.
So I would say get connected.
It is absolutely worth your, uh,time and, you know, even a fee
to pay into a childcareassociation because, um, they
are the ones that are advocatingfor childcare providers at the
state level.
(50:28):
And, you know, the moreproviders that join those
associations, the more resourcesthe associations have to be able
to effectively advocate and, andmake sure that they can get
those issues, um, clear topolicy makers, um, same thing
nationally.
And, and most of the time youactually may not even have to
pay into a nationalorganization.
There's a lot of ways to, uh, toget involved.
(50:52):
E C C for example, I mentionedthe champions and mixed delivery
calls.
We are giving, um, consistentupdates about what's happening
at the federal level.
We give updates about whatdifferent states are doing.
We share these resources, weshare this information, um, and
it's, it's free to join it's foranyone that's interested.
They, you know, just reach outto us.
You can email us and, and we'llfind a way to get you connected.
(51:13):
There's a number of othernational organizations that are
also doing this work that arefree to join.
Um, but all of this, you know,just paying attention matters,
learning what's happeningmatters because they will also
tell you when to share yourvoice.
Um, and by having that sort ofguidance and, and by, you know,
saying, Hey, we just need youto, you know, pick up the phone
(51:37):
and, and call your legislatorand, and do this.
Um, and, and really spelling outthose actions that you can take
that is incredibly helpfulbecause, um, you know, there's a
time and a place for, um, voicesthat we need and learning about
when those times and places aregoes a long way
Speaker 2 (51:55):
Is really important.
And we'll put, you know, forwhat is worth Jake, we're gonna
put your study on staffing inthe show notes, we'll make sure
and provide contact informationfor E C C, but just in terms of
like somebody who wants to jumpon those mixed delivery calls or
find out more, can you justreally quick give an idea of
how, you know, providers couldfind your organization and, and
(52:16):
participate in those?
Speaker 3 (52:18):
Yeah.
So, um, and I'll give, also feelfree to share my email address
in the notes as well.
Um, because I, I help run thosecalls.
So you can just, uh, uh, link usdirectly if you're involved at
all with the national childcareassociation, that's actually who
we co-host with.
You could probably just followthem on LinkedIn or, or Twitter
or some other source, cuz theydo promote a link to sign up for
those calls.
(52:39):
Um, or you can go to ourwebsite, ECE consortium.org.
And um, we have a contact, um,uh, in information there as
well.
And you can just reach out andsay, you wanna be involved?
The calls are, um, uh, everyother Wednesday at 3:00 PM
Eastern.
Um, but you don't have toattend.
Uh, we send out the, um, theslides and the notes and we know
(53:03):
that a lot of people reviewthose.
Um, you know, when they get achance, since providers are so
busy, um, but we do try to, um,make sure to make them
accessible.
We have a toolkit that, thatgives you resources on just
what's happening.
So, you know, when I was talkingabout, um, the rewritten
childcare and preschoolcomponents of build back better,
(53:24):
we, we have a summary, you know,that's a part of those calls and
it's part of our toolkit.
And so, um, yeah, feel free toget involved and, uh, we would
love to, to have you as a partof the calls.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah, that's amazing.
I appreciate so ECE consortium,if you're interested any of this
content and listening to thisepisode, like reach out, go
check out their website.
There's gonna be links to the,the studies that Jake referenced
in this, in this, um, episode inour show notes and, and get
involved because there's a lotof content, a lot of resource
(53:56):
out there and, and um, you know,Jake really appreciate you
taking time.
Again, I just wanna remindeverybody, this is Jake Stewart
with the early care andeducation consortium, um, did
not disappoint Jake thiscontent.
I think, um, you know, so manyof us in the industry who are
kind of involved in the day today operations of the businesses
that, you know, we run or a partof, um, maybe aren't aware of
(54:19):
all the work that's happening atthe federal level that you guys
are doing.
So really appreciate the time,really appreciate the content
and who knows, maybe we willhave, um, like episode three at
some point in the future.
So thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
Yeah.
I'm looking forward to thetrilogy and thank you as
always.
Um, it's always a greatconversation.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Thank you for listening to this episode of the
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Welcome to the childcare business podcast
brought to you by ProCaresolutions.
This podcast is all about givingchildcare, preschool daycare
after school and other earlyeducation professionals, a fun
and upbeat way to learn aboutstrategies and inspiration you
can use to thrive.
You'll hear from a variety ofchildcare thought leaders,
(00:30):
including educators, owners, andindustry experts on ways to
innovate, to meet the needs ofthe children you serve from
practical tips for managingoperations, to uplifting stories
of transformation and triumph.
This podcast will be chalk fullof insights.
You can use to fully realize thepotential of your childcare
business.
(00:50):
Let's jump in.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good morning, everyone.
Welcome again to the childcarebusiness podcast, uh, as is my
custom, um, joined today with aguest that I think is gonna be a
lot of fun to talk to.
In fact, it's our first likesequel on the podcast, you know,
Jacob Stewart with, um, earlycare and education consortium
also known as E C C was with us.
(01:14):
I think it was back in January,uh, Jake, and we talked a little
bit about, you know, some of theinitiatives that your
organization's working on and,and the build back better, you
know, funding and some of theother things that are flowing
into the industry.
Um, but as you guys havecontinued to work, uh, and we've
continued to see some of thecontent you've pushed out, we
just thought it would be a greattime to reconnect and talk, um,
(01:36):
in particular about some of thestaffing topics in our industry.
So, um, welcome back to theshow.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Thanks for having me back.
I had such a good time the firsttime that I was excited to come
back and I'm excited to be thefirst sequel guest.
So thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah.
That's big time, man, to be thefirst to come back a second time
, it's kind of like I wastelling somebody this has
nothing to do with the podcast,but, uh, I recently saw top gun
too.
Like, so, you know, maybe I'mdating myself here, but the
original top gun was from mygeneration.
I think it's only the secondmovie I've seen in a theater,
like in the last three years isreally hard for a sequel to top
(02:16):
the original, but everybody whohad seen it was telling me like,
man, it's a good movie.
It's actually better than thefirst one.
And I, and I concur, I saw it.
It was better than the firstone.
So I was pleasantly surprised.
So super high expectations, nopressure that the sequel here is
gonna be better than the firstshow even.
So, um, maybe as a start
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Pressure at
Speaker 2 (02:35):
All.
We'll have some fun with it,Jake, just for maybe those who
didn't hear the first podcast,just to give a little context
around E C, C and your role withthe organization.
Can you just talk a little bitabout what you guys do as an org
and then specifically what yourfocus is?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah.
So E CUC is a national nonprofitadvocacy organization that
functions similarly to anassociation in that our members
are childcare providers.
Um, they are typically multi, uh, state childcare providers and
altogether our members operateover 6,000 centers across 48
(03:15):
states.
These are centers that serve avariety of families.
Um, many are who pay out ofpocket for childcare, which we
know is becoming increasinglymore expensive, but we also have
many centers that utilizefinancial assistance.
So they serve families utilizingsubsidies or vouchers.
They have head startpartnerships.
They have military partnerships,business partnerships to provide
(03:37):
onsite childcare.
So, uh, a diverse array ofchildcare services that they
provide.
And really our goal is to try toadvocate, to help expand access
to high quality affordablechildcare for, for all families.
And, um, of course that includesa lot of federal advocacy and,
(03:58):
and that federal funding isincredibly important, but states
are the ones that reallyimplement that policy.
So my role specifically is tooversee state policy and
government affairs and reallyhelp educate state policy makers
on the decisions they can makethat will help providers serve
more families.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Nice.
And so your participants or yourmembers, even though it does it
doesn't represent everychildcare provider nationwide.
I think it is a sampling of whatevery childcare provider has
interests in.
And so I think your members, thefeedback loop, if I understand
it correctly, Jake is you've gotmember organizations nationwide
(04:38):
that represent up to 6,000centers.
They come to you and you guysmeet and you talk about like,
Hey, these are the challengesthat we're seeing.
This is, this is what we'reseeing impact the families in
our communities.
This is what we're seeing impactour operations.
And here's how we think thegovernment could assist or at
least be aware of what'shappening.
And as you guys meet, then youkind of take that information
(05:01):
and you're, and you say, Hey,we're gonna go talk to the
government entities andorganizations that can actually
help impact these things.
It fair description.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah.
That, that's a greatdescription.
And I would just add to that,that what we advocate for is
what's good for all providers atthe end of the day, because what
our members are struggling withis what everyone else is
struggling with in the field.
And so, um, we really do try tobe the voice for providers, um,
with, with the goal of trying toserve more families.
(05:31):
Um, and we know that there is abig interest and a big push in
trying to get childcare more,um, accessible and more
affordable.
And we are here to try to helphopefully bring some solutions
to the table.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, it's amazing.
I, one of the things that I tookaway from our last conversation,
which just shed some light onthis whole conversation for me
was, you know, if you, if youtake the work that you guys are
doing all the way down to anindividual family in an
individual community, somewherein the United States, like the
subsidy reimbursement that acenter receives for that family
and the amount they receive andhow it's delivered, doesn't just
(06:10):
magically happen without anyconversation or discussion from
groups like yours, both, youknow, at the state level, but
then at the national level.
And so you, you know, even foran individual provider who isn't
involved with your organizationor familiar with it, the role
that you guys play is reallysignificant, cuz it, you can see
it in any individual community,any individual center and
(06:33):
parents that receive subsidy oreven families that are paying
private pay and the, the, thefactors of cost and so forth to
them.
Um, there's organizations at thestate level and nationally,
obviously that are a big part ofthat.
And so that was a big takeawayfor me.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah.
And one issue that has plaguedthis field, well, there's many
issues that have plagued thisfield for a while, but one is
that this field really lackedvoices that were really chiming
into policymakers on, on theright steps to take, to help
support providers.
Why is that?
Well it's because providers arebusy and they are operating a
(07:08):
business and being a childcareprovider is hard work.
And so really there really isn'ta lot of time then to go and,
and meet and connect with policymakers and their staff and
educate them on everything thatneeds to go on.
Um, you know, a lot ofindustries have a lot of
lobbying support that helps doexactly that, but this is an
(07:30):
industry that really hasn't hadthat for a long time.
And therefore I think over time,it's just become more difficult
for providers.
And I think over the last fewyears and, and hopefully moving
forward, we, we finally, we'refinally starting to see that
come forward.
Um, E C C is just one of now,you know, several voices that
are trying to come to federaland state policy makers.
(07:53):
Um, I think we're in a bigmoment with childcare right now.
People are finally recognizingwhy it's so important.
It, you know, unfortunately tooka pandemic to finally highlight
the, the need for childcare, butthis has been something that has
been important for families forwell before the pandemic as
well.
Um, but we want to takeadvantage of this time.
And now that we have policymakers finally recognizing that
(08:15):
this is important, it's time totake it to the next level and
talk about what policy actionsneed to be done to truly support
families, of course, but thenproviders who are the ones that
are working with families andtaking care of the children, um,
in order to ma maximize thenumber of children that can be
(08:35):
served.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, you're right.
And it, and I, it's, it's twothings I think, you know, it's
supporting providers, like yousaid, in families, but also
sustaining these businesses andfinding, you know, um, processes
and legislation, part of that,and just a process that's going
to allow providers to runsustainable businesses and
you're right.
Like I think one of the otherthings that from our last
(08:57):
conversation that really stuckout to me was you, you know,
you're not just a voice for thelarge national chains or for
just, you know, private paidchildcare programs.
And it's, it's the entireindustry home.
You know, sometimes we, we seethe conversations about how home
providers are treated or howcenter based programs or group
programs or publicly fundedprograms.
(09:17):
But it it's really in a lot ofways, all of those different
types of childcare programs arealigned and you guys are a voice
for all of them in terms of,it's not just one or the other,
it's the industry as a whole,which I think is really
important.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah.
We run, uh, we run an advocacycall every two weeks.
It's called champions of mixeddelivery.
And it's, it's all about tryingto push for a mixed delivery
preschool system, which, youknow, as a reminder is a system
in which parents can navigate,you know, a choice of providers.
So that could be a choice ofcenter based providers, uh,
public schools, if they wanna,you know, send their child to
(09:54):
school for pre, uh, forpreschool, um, family home, you
know, home based childcareproviders, all of it matters.
We're looking for a system where, um, we think the healthiest
systems are really where parentscan navigate all of these
options.
Um, unfortunately, you know,there are many parts of the
country where the system is nooptions, right.
And there, there really isnothing theirs, but we do want
(10:17):
to make sure that, um, everybodyis having their voice
represented when it comes tochildcare providers.
And we know that that's morethan just centers.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah.
And you guys get a collectiveset of information that allows
you to have a really, I think,unique perspective on the
industry that you can then takeand champion, you know, kind of
the overall, um, causes that aregoing to impact all of us
positively.
I, I do wanna talk specificallyaround staffing cuz you know,
you guys published recently a, areally interesting article or,
(10:48):
or study that I think shed somelight on, you know, states that
are navigating some of thesechallenges, uh, well, and what
we can learn from those andmaybe apply in other states.
But I was hoping just to get anupdate from you before jumping
into that, on some of the buildback better and just national
funding, I think last time wespoke, some of that legislation
was still like in Congress andbeing voted on and the outcomes,
(11:12):
are we still in that spot or isthere a little bit more clarity
on what some of the funding tothe industry looks like right
now?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah.
So when we spoke last time and Ibelieve the episode came out in
January, but we recorded it, um,you know, in mid-December and it
was about a week or maybe evenjust a few days before there was
a very crucial announcement froma crucial Senator.
So Senator mansion had announcedthat he was not going to support
(11:39):
bill back better as it waswritten, um, as a review.
So the way bill Beck better waswritten and how it affects, um,
childcare and early learning isthat there were, there were two
sections of the bill.
Um, one was a, a section devotedto childcare, um, that was
really trying to, um, increase,um, the number of families that
would be eligible by increasingthe income eligibility, um, up
(12:02):
to 250% state median income.
And then there was a preschoolsection that was really trying
to provide funding for mixeddelivery preschool and Senator
mansion ultimately decided hedid not want to support this.
Um, and of course, because thisis the budget reconciliation
process and we're in a, we're ina 50, 50 split in the Senate,
(12:25):
um, that all but killed, um, thebill in that moment.
Um, at the end of Decemberthere, following that, um, you
know, there were a lot ofquestions on if bill Beck better
was, was going to make you comeback.
And if so, what it would looklike a lot of behind the scenes
conversations were, werehappening and have been
(12:45):
happening for the last sixmonths.
And I, we didn't see necessarilya lot of movement legislatively,
um, until the last few monthslast month, uh, Senator Patty
Murray, who is the chair of thehealth education, labor, um, and
pensions committee.
(13:06):
So that's the Senate committeethat would handle the, the
childcare and early learningissues.
Um, she, and, and Senator TimKane, uh, released a proposal,
um, basically it's a, it was arewrite of the childcare and
preschool sections, um, comparedto what we saw back in December
and their hopes by, byrewriting, it was having it be
(13:30):
something that was more tenable,especially for Senator mansion
and Senator cinema, a lot of themoderate Democrats and, um, by
doing so that childcare andpreschool would be included in
any sort of budgetreconciliation package with 50
votes that might, you know, comeup over the summer.
(13:51):
The, the new bill, uh, changeswere overall really great.
Uh, so I'll it, a lot of it wasdedicated funding for the
childcare and development blockgrant or CCD B G.
That is the primary source offederal funding.
Uh, 72 billion, I believe overfive years, um, is what it was
trying to look at, which is ahuge increase when we look at,
(14:13):
um, you know, what it iscurrently in addition to that
though, um, there's also fundingfor head start.
Um, some other purposes, one ofthe innovative items that I saw
in, in the rewrite had to dowith, um, wage supplement
grants.
So essentially, um, they decidedto take great things that we're
seeing with the American rescueplan and the stabilization
(14:36):
grants that a lot of states are,are dispersing now.
And they're trying to capitalizeon the success of that.
Um, I think fortunately through,um, not only our advocacy, but
the advocacy of a lot ofproviders, um, the concern about
wages has been, I thinkdefinitely heard by, uh, a lot
of members of Congress.
(14:56):
And, uh, the concern of course,is that, you know, if there's
gonna be an increase in wages,um, for childcare staff, there
needs to be federal funding andsupport to make that happen
because a lot of providers justdon't have the profit margins to
make this happen.
This is already a very, um,heavy labor intensive industry.
And, uh, there's just not a lotof room in the budgets of
(15:20):
childcare providers to get thosesubstantial increases, to
compensation that people wannasee.
Um, so what these, uh, uh,compensation grants would do is
essentially do very functionvery similarly to the
stabilization grants, give themoney to the providers first, so
that they have that money andare able to spend it on
(15:41):
compensation, which we think isa much more sustainable approach
to raising compensation inwages.
So, um, all this to say that,uh, the bill has been rewritten
for the childcare and preschoolsections, but we don't know.
Um, well, we don't know a lot ofthings.
We don't know if budgetreconciliation is gonna happen
(16:01):
at all.
And if it does happen, we don'tknow if childcare is going to be
included.
We have heard a lot, we've beenmonitoring the conversations and
, and speeches from Senatormansion.
Um, and there seems to be someback and forth on whether or not
items related to what they callthe care economy.
(16:22):
Um, that includes childcare thatalso includes other types of
care as well, um, would beincluded Senator mansion.
And some others think that thosetypes of items might be better
suited for something by person.
Um, however, I think the otherside of that is, you know, could
we get more funding, morechildcare funding through the 50
(16:44):
vote, uh, budget reconciliationprocess, um, you know, the, the
answers to these are well aboveus.
on Capitol hill.
Um, but all this to say, thereis a small chance that childcare
would be included in budgetreconciliation if it were to
happen.
Um, but it's not necessarily agreat chance.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Well, and I think that, I mean that, I appreciate
that update.
Actually.
That's a nice overview of kindof where things stand still in
the conversation still beingworked through, you know, at a
federal level.
But I think one of the thingsthat you guys have clearly
stated in all of your studiesand findings is look in order
for us to keep childcare movingforward and sustained.
(17:29):
There has to be long termcommitment from the government
to, to fund and to, um, youknow, stabilize it cause a lot
of the C you know, resourcesthat you've mentioned earlier
are temporary, right?
Like there's money there.
It's still being deployed, butit's, it's on a clock and it's
gonna run out.
I think some of those, um, thosestreams run into 2023, maybe
(17:52):
early 2024.
But as of right now, that's kindof the runway we see with, you
know, federal funding for thechildcare industry.
Yeah,
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Yeah.
And that stabilization funding,which we know is incredibly
important for providers acrossthe country, um, and has, is
really helping to prop up a lotof businesses around the
country.
It does have to be completelyliquidated by September of 2023.
And so we have been articulatingthat as the, the timeline that
(18:24):
Congress has to get somethingacross the finish line.
And yeah, we we've beeneducating lawmakers that once
that funding gets sort of pulledout from under the rug from
providers, um, there's a,there's a big risk to the
industry.
And so we're hoping for somesort of solution, whether it's
through budget reconciliation orsomething by partisan, which,
(18:47):
you know, that's the other thingis that if budget reconciliation
doesn't work out for childcare,it doesn't mean that there can't
be a solution.
We have seen Republicansactually voice their support or
increased investments forchildcare and recognize that
that needs to happen.
Um, actually there was, um,recently a letter from five
Republican senators and it wasled by Senator Burr, who is the
(19:10):
ranking member on the helpcommittee.
And, uh, they came out for theirsupport of doubling CC D B G
within five years.
Um, not necessarily the funding,we were hoping to get out of a
budget reconciliation bill, butat least they are coming to the
table to, um, recognize thatthere needs to be a solution.
And so we are hopeful that atthe very least budget
(19:32):
reconciliation doesn't work out,that something can be done
before the end of this year, um,to ensure that, um, the industry
gets the funding that it needs.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah.
And that's a positive sign, atleast, at least from talking
with you last time and hearingyou talk again today, even
though it's still a work inprogress, seeing some bipartisan
support and people reachingacross the aisle to both
identify Hey childcare.
And that in this industry isextremely important to our
country and our economy, let'sgo figure it out.
And I, and I think Jake, as partof like the work that you guys
(20:03):
are doing, you know, on the, onthe national funding, one of the
things that has come out ofthat, and you made reference to
it a little bit ago, talkingabout, you know, staffing comp
compensation in the industrythat you guys have also been
working, you know, in parallelwith this, of doing some studies
around staffing, the challengesthat we're seeing in the
industry with staffing rightnow, and you, you guys just
(20:26):
recently released a report, uh,or a study on this.
And, and it, you know, I wannatalk specifically about that
because it, it really caught ourattention around some of the
findings that you guys had where, you know, I think 52% of
providers, um, over the lastcouple of years were forced to
serve fewer children because ofstaffing shortages and, and 37%
of providers that you guys workwork with or surveyed had a
(20:50):
longer than normal waiting listbecause it just couldn't enroll
families.
Can you just talk a little bitabout this study and what the
Genesis of the study was, howyou guys approached the study
and then maybe we'll get intosome of the findings.
I, there was, I think about fouror five takeaways that I made
note of about things you guysare seeing certain states do
(21:12):
that are proving successful, butlet's start with the study
itself.
How did you guys start thestudy?
What did the mechanics look liketo kind of pull this information
together?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yeah.
So one thing that I was hearingin a lot from our members was
about the, the staffing crisisin childcare.
And, you know, there's a,there's a staffing shortage in a
number of industries and we'rehearing about it on the news.
Um, but childcare isexperiencing it, um, probably
worse than most.
Um, a lot of this is because it,it was, there was already high
(21:43):
turnover even before thepandemic.
This is a, a field where, um,compensation is, is low and, um,
that, and it's a very demandingjob.
And, you know, between a mix ofthose things, it was leading to
high turnover and then thepandemic happens.
And, um, there have been anumber of, um, early childhood
professionals that may haveretired or have chosen to go
(22:06):
work elsewhere to make moremoney, um, which, you know, you
can make a lot more money doinga lot of other jobs than being
in childcare.
And so, uh, but I think what,what was really concerning of
course is that now, um, this wasactually inhibiting the function
of programs and there are entireclassrooms that are being not
(22:27):
utilized and are essentiallyclosed because there is not a
teacher or a, a staff person forthem to hire.
And so, um, I think with thisreport, our, our approach was
really two things that we wantedto do.
One is we know that states, uh,there are many states around the
country who are at leastattempting to, um, alleviate the
(22:50):
staffing shortage with a numberof innovative policy solutions.
And, and we know that one thingthat states need right now are
ideas.
Uh, what, what are other statesare doing?
What, uh, what's working well,what's not working well.
And so part of this was justwanting to compile some of those
ideas into one resource to sharewith state policy makers about
(23:12):
these ideas that are happeningaround the country.
I think the other piece of thisreport, though, that is really,
really crucial, uh, forpolicymakers, especially to
understand is that the workforceissue is not necessarily caused
by just one thing.
Um, but it is actually amulti-pronged issue that's gonna
require a multi-pronged solutioncompensation absolutely is, is
(23:36):
probably one of the biggestdrivers of the shortage, but we
also know that there are anumber of other topics and
categories that need to beaddressed.
And that compensation alone isnot necessarily going to get us,
um, to, to where we wanna be interms of hiring.
So we tried to weave togetherthe, the narrative of this, uh,
workforce shortage, which ofcourse includes compensation,
(23:59):
but it also includes educationalsupport and career development.
Um, it includes hiringprocesses.
I think, uh, for me, one of thethings that, that really
bother me the most when it comesto, uh, the, the staffing crisis
is that when they, whenproviders do find someone that
they can hire, um, that personsometimes, uh, is unable to work
(24:23):
for one month, two month, twomonths, sometimes even longer,
all because they can't get theirbackground check back in time
from the state, something that'scompletely outta their control.
I mean, if, if that were me, ifI were applying for a job that,
that wasn't paying that much.
And then on top of that, Icouldn't even start the job for
another two to three months or,you know, and sometimes the
(24:46):
backlogs on those backgroundchecks can be even longer.
I'm I am going to find anotherjob.
I need to support myself somehowduring that time.
And if I'm unable to work,that's a huge barrier right
there.
Um, subsidy policy as well.
We know that subsidy reimbursalrates are incredibly low.
So we really tried to tie all ofthis into a single narrative to
(25:07):
really, um, educate states thatthere are a number of, uh,
solutions that they need to bethinking about in order to help
alleviate this problem.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah.
And those, and you hit the, kindof the, the points that I pulled
out of the study.
When I read through it, therewas, you know, about five
different points.
And I wanted to see if you couldshare, like, just from your
findings, some of the states orthings that you're seeing in
terms of ideas that, that havesome traction and have some
momentum to actually help inthose areas.
(25:39):
So the, the first one you'vementioned it a few times, which
is, I, I think probably the mostobvious one is the compensation
component.
You know, we're losing quality,you know, uh, professionals in
our industry, and we're notrecruiting new professionals in
some ways, because of thecompensation is just not
competitive across, you know,other industries.
(26:00):
Can you talk about like, arethere some states that have
found some ways to overcome thathurdle and any examples you can
give that you guys are findinglike, Hey, that's a nice model.
That's on the right track.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah.
So through, and, and I'll startoff by saying a lot of this was
done through the, um, APAfunding, the American rescue
plan act funding and, and theother stabilization funding that
has been given to states sincethe pandemic.
So we always say that because aswe discussed earlier, you know,
this is temporary funding.
And if, if we're really lookingfor long-term solutions, then
(26:32):
the federal government is gonnaneed to step up to make sure
that funding continues.
Um, but a lot of states havebeen looking into ways to, uh,
compensate the workforce withoutnecessarily making it a mandate,
um, from providers.
And by doing that, um, or manyof these solutions have involved
some sort of bonus pay orcompensation grants that states
(26:54):
are offering.
So a number of states have donethis.
Um, I think, you know, one ofthe earlier states we've we saw
do this was Georgia.
Um, I think was one of the firstones and they offered, uh, what
they called these power paymentsfor the workforce.
Um, it was basically a$1,000bonus.
Um, and actually since then,Georgia has now offered multiple
of these bonuses.
(27:15):
Um, that has been really helpfulto just again, um, having that
additional, um, salary add onwhich not only will help recruit
more staff, but at least retainstaff.
If they know that there's abonus, that's gonna be coming
down the pipe that that's,that's an incentive perhaps for,
for staff to say, um, since thenwe've seen a number of other
(27:37):
states also step up, um, a lotof like$1,000 bonuses, similar
to Georgia.
Some states have provided evenmore than that.
So, um, Alabama, um, made acommitment to do eight quarterly
payments of$1,500 for full timestaff.
So, you know, added togetherthat something like$12,000, you
know, increase to their salaryover a period of two years.
(27:59):
And I think by making itquarterly, again, it really
helps with that retentionbecause then the worker knows
that, you know, at the, at somepoint in the quarter, and then
the next quarter in the nextquarter, they'll get that bonus
for, for sticking around longer,which is really helpful for
programs.
Um, I think probably the biggestannouncement we've heard
recently came outta WashingtonDC.
Um, and they are gonna besending 10 to$14,000 bonus
(28:23):
checks to full-time staff.
Um, they're also doing bonuschecks, uh, for part-time staff
for, uh, five to$7,000.
Um, so it's really great thatthey're recognizing part-time
staff as well.
Um, but a number of states havedone bonus pay initiatives, and
we hope that more states do thator really think about how they
can, um, offer that.
And, and kind of onerecommendation I would add to
(28:45):
that is anything the state cando to help again with their
retention component, um, becausethese workers definitely deserve
bonus pay and then, and thenleave a couple months later and,
and that's never necessarilyhelpful.
So any, any way that the statecould set it up to, um, really
help incentivize the worker tostick around and still access
(29:06):
those benefits, that would bereally helpful.
Um, and then some statesactually have launched
specifically, uh, recruitinggrants.
So, um, states like, uh, Iowaand New Jersey have a
recruitment and retention bonus.
So that means, um, if this is anew hire, they can, they get an
extra thousand dollars, um, forbeing a new hire.
(29:27):
So we think that's a really goodidea of helping to attract new
talent as well.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Have the states to your, to your knowledge, Jake
have, have the states made iteasy for those grants and those
bonus payments and those, um,you know, subsidies to be easily
accessible.
Like, do they get paid directlyto the staff at the centers or
do they flow through theprovider and then get handed?
And, and I guess in yourexperience, is there a best
(29:53):
practice or a preference, or aslong as the money's there, it's
good either way.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
So the answer is both, we've seen states have it
directly paid to the providerfrom the state or to the
employee, I should say, from thestate.
Um, and, uh, the provider mayneed to give some information
or, you know, might need to, youknow, still do things on their
end.
Um, but then there's also beenweight, uh, bonuses that have
gone through the provider.
(30:19):
And then the provider will, youknow, has to maybe sign an atta
station or, or some sort ofagreement.
And then, um, they have someleeway on, on how, and when that
money gets spent, um, you know,we would definitely be more
supportive of that approachsimply because each business is
sort of trying out their ownsolution to help recruit and
(30:42):
retain staff.
And I think sort of whatever youcan do to give businesses that
flexibility, or make sure thatthere's no duplication of
efforts or, you know, would,would always be helpful, but
that said any, any of this ishelpful if it goes directly to
the employee, that is, that isfine too, because at the end of
the day, just making sure thatsomething is happening to help,
(31:05):
um, incentivize people to stayor, or come into the field is
really the ultimate goal.
But, um, I think I just, I'malways the type of person that
you wanna avoid duplication and,and wanna make things as
efficient as possible.
And I think, um, you know,there's ways to have it run
through the provider and thenthe provider can show on the
back ends that, um, they have,you know, done the right steps
(31:29):
that the state wants them totake.
Um, but they at least haveflexibility in, in getting there
Speaker 2 (31:34):
In how they do that.
And you guys have also foundlike one of the other, you know,
kind of findings from your studywas around states that are doing
a good job around educationalsupport and career development,
because we do hear that a lot aswell.
And you've mentioned this a fewtimes and I think rightly so
compensation is extremelyimportant.
Like we need to pay ourprofessionals and quality
(31:55):
workers, uh, the right wage, butthat's not always everything
culture inside of a, the fourwalls of a childcare program are
really important.
And, and what the mission thatthey're on the team that they're
a part of, we've heard a lot ofproviders talk about that, but
also just the career trackingand the career pathing.
You've seen some states do someinteresting things around that.
(32:16):
Can you speak to any examplesthat you guys have found on that
area?
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Yeah, so we, and it's a collective, we, uh, need to
have a conversation about thefact that this is not only a low
pay job, but it's verydemanding, not in term, not only
in terms of beyond the day, butin the requirements that these,
uh, workers have to go through.
And, um, in order to, you know,there's pathways that they have
(32:40):
to achieve and there's coursethere's extra coursework there's
, um, in some cases they mightneed to attain a bachelor's
degree to get to the next leveland, and, and try to, you know,
become a lead teacher or, youknow, whatever it is they're
trying to do.
Um, and these are burdens and,and sometimes not only time
burdens, but financial burdens,there's an expectation that the
(33:03):
childcare worker, um, pays forthese in an already low paying
job.
It, we need to have an honestconversation about that, but at
the same time, quality isimportant.
And we do wanna make sure thatthose that are working with
their children and are educatingthem, um, do have the experience
and the knowledge necessary tomake sure that this is a, a high
quality environment.
(33:23):
So what we've, what a number ofstates have been doing have
they've been trying to offer,um, flexibility or alternative
pathways to make it moreaccessible for childcare workers
to move up a career ladder.
Um, one example, um, is comingout of Massachusetts, or at
least they announced it and, andwe're looking forward to it.
(33:45):
Um, they are hoping to have a, acareer pathway that's rooted in
experience rather than just in,um, degrees and credentialing,
because we know that experienceis a, a, a huge factor when it
comes to, uh, serving children.
And in some cases, um, it, itprobably matters even more
having that experience.
And so, you know, essentiallyMassachusetts is asking the
(34:08):
question, how can we translatethat experience, um, into, you
know, hours or into coursework,um, in a way that makes sense,
uh, that is still good forchildren, but enables, uh,
providers that do have thatexperience to move up later.
Um, we've seen states like, um,Colorado Del Delaware, Oregon,
(34:29):
and North Carolina, they'reexperimenting with internships.
So, um, this is sort of a, a wayfor, uh, workers to start
they're on the job.
Um, you know, training andexperience, and having this
being incorporated into aninternship that might then lead
to a, uh, a child developmentassociate, uh, or CDA as we like
(34:51):
to call it in the field.
Um, those sorts of, um, uh,initiatives, in addition to
scholarships, we've seen somestates offer scholarships for
associates, bachelors andmaster's degree because I'm of
the opinion that that burdenshould not be on the worker.
And it would be great if, ifstates could really pick up the
tab on that.
Um, but, but those sorts ofinitiatives are incredibly
(35:12):
helpful and that really booststhe morale, right?
When it it's a big differencewhen, uh, you, when we're
talking about a low paying job,and then you suddenly have to do
extra work, so you get low pay,but when the state comes out and
says, well, we're gonna pay forthis, or, or we're going to
offer these flexibilities, um,that, that is a big boost to
(35:33):
morale.
The, the last thing I'm gonnasay on this, um, and something
that I hope gets talked aboutmore loan forgiveness.
I mean, there's been a number ofchildcare workers that have
already taken out loans to get,um, you know, the, an associates
or bachelors or masters.
Um, and I think we need to talkabout loan forgiveness with our,
our childcare workers.
I know that, um, that issomething that is being explored
(35:56):
by a few states right now, thisidea for, uh, loan forgiveness.
That was, um, it was actuallyintroduced, um, in a, in a
Massachusetts bill recently.
Uh, we'll see if that getssigned into law and actually
implemented, but, um, yeah, Ireally don't think that
childcare workers should bepaying out of pocket for, um,
doing something that we know isa, uh, public service that is
(36:18):
desperately needed.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah.
That's needed for the economy.
I, I totally agree with that.
And I love what you were sayingabout what Massachusetts is
doing around.
Like, I, I don't, it's almostlike an apprenticeship program
or at least giving you creditfor being in the classroom,
doing the work and learning, youknow, under somebody who's, you
know, got the rightcertifications and can pull you
along as opposed to the extratime and financial resource to
(36:41):
go to school.
And maybe that's always gonna bea part of it, but I, I like the
direction that is heading thatthat resonates to me, like as
something that's common sensemakes sense.
Let's make it easier, greatrecruiting tool for providers to
be able to say, Hey, coming intothe industry, you've got a path
to progress your career withouta huge outlay of additional
(37:03):
financial resource on your sideor time outside of your already
super, you know, intensive job.
Uh, so I, I like that you guysalso found, I know the subsidy
piece is another one of thesebuckets that you guys have found
around the system hasn't beenperfect for a long time, but the
ability or the need tostreamline how subsidy programs
(37:26):
work, how it compensatesproviders, how it properly
subsidizes families in need.
Can you, can you just talk aboutthat piece and how you see the
subsidy component playing intothe, the staffing challenges?
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Yeah, so we know that , um, subsidy reimbursement in
most states right now is justtoo low.
Um, and, and there's no, there'sno other way to say it, it, it,
there are states that arereimbursing subsidy, um, at
extremely low levels that I,that do one of two things.
Um, they're either so low thatproviders have no incentive to
(38:01):
accept families utilizingfinancial assistance, or, um,
for those that do, they'reessentially doing so at a loss,
or they're unable to, uh,recuperate, you know, the, the
money that they need, um, inorder to make these larger
structural changes such as, youknow, better compensation.
Um, you know, one example inaddition to the low rates, I
(38:25):
should say, um, it's also veryunstable funding.
So a lot of states, I would saythe, the vast majority of states
are still reimbursing based offof a child's attendance.
Um, well, that is really hardbecause, you know, children
don't necessarily come every day.
And, uh, that means that it's anunstable source of funding,
whereas the provider could, youknow, easily just save that slot
(38:49):
for a private pay family andstill be able to get the money
there.
Um, but when, you know, tying itback to the workforce, and I
think this is an important partfor, uh, policy makers to
understand, even if the child isnot there, the worker still is,
and if we want this funding atall, to really help support that
worker's, um, you know, salary,then it, then it needs to follow
(39:12):
the worker, not necessarily thechild's attendance.
So one thing we've been pushingfor is to, um, start paying on
enrollments rather thanattendance, make it a more
stable funding stream.
Not only will you help thoseproviders that accept subsidy to
recuperate some of that fundingthat can go towards investments
in their program and staffing.
(39:33):
Um, but you also are going toincentivize more providers to
potentially accept families onsubsidy.
You might be giving subsidyfamilies more options as a
result of, of doing that.
We have seen a lot of states dothis, um, temporarily, at least.
So California, Colorado,Kentucky, Nevada, um, have all
temporarily, at least paid onenrollment.
(39:54):
We have seen some states, um,look into doing this
permanently.
Um, and there is somelegislation in those states.
So New Jersey and Massachusettshas legislation to make that, um
, a permanent change.
I will say this was an issue inNew Jersey at the end of last
year's session.
Um, and actually the governor,uh, veto did the bill, even
(40:14):
though it passed, um, uh, prettymuch unanimously out of both
chambers, but the reason for theveto was the concern about
consistent funding.
And so this is where we go backto why the federal funding is
important, because if statesdon't have the confidence that
there is going to be enoughmoney to make these changes,
(40:35):
it's a lot more difficult, butwhat states can at least do for
now is, uh, you know, at leastit's fine to make these
temporary, you know, we wouldsay temporary changes are better
than no changes at all.
Some states have thought throughthis well, so, um, Georgia, I'm
gonna mention Georgia again.
Um, they made an announcementlast year that they are going to
(40:57):
increase reimbursement rates by15% across the board for all
categories through, uh,September, 2020, which is the,
uh, last date that they can usethat funding.
We really encourage states totry to maximize, even if it's
gonna be temporary to maximize,um, the, the amount of time, um,
that they can, you know, promotea policy for, because that helps
(41:20):
on the provider side forproviders to plan and then adapt
to that policy.
So now at the very least inGeorgia providers know that they
can rely on that for at leasttwo years, which is helpful, um,
because that's two years worthof enrollment.
That's two years worth of apolicy changes at the business
level, um, that can at leasthelp align with the state's
(41:42):
goals of, of getting more lowincome families serve
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Well.
And then to your point abouttying that to that staffing
component, if a, if a providerfeels comfortable with that
consistent influx of subsidy andan increase in subsidy, or at
least the consistency of it,then they're going to be more
confident in their hiringpractices about being able to go
and, you know, increase pay totheir existing staff or
retention, and also, you know,to up what they're able to offer
(42:09):
new staff as well.
Um, so I like that.
And I, and I think, you know,it's interesting, I don't know,
in, in all of the work that youguys have done around that
particular topic subsidy, if theconversation between how
subsidies work in, in earlychildhood differ from the public
school system, because if I'mnot mistaken, I mean, in the
public school system that thatfunding that comes to the school
(42:31):
district is not based on astudent's attendance, it's based
on enrollment, right?
And so there's a distinctionbetween how that money flows and
how it's monitored.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
Yeah.
And in fact, it, I, if a publicschool's funding was, uh, based
on children's attendance, thenthat public school would
absolutely struggle and, andmight even close because it's
just so inconsistent.
Um, and especially when we talkabout programs that are serving
low income families, you know,there's a lot of data out there
to suggest that, you know, forvarious reasons, low income
(43:03):
families are, are likely to havemore absences, you know, maybe
due to inconsistencies or, oreven you think of a parent's
work schedule.
Right.
Yeah.
And, you know, low incomefamilies often have to juggle
work schedules that are, are notnine to five.
They're actually veryinconsistent and their childcare
needs are already very, verydifferent than the typical nine
(43:23):
to five schedule.
And yet you, you, you have areimbursement method that is, is
acting as if they would be on aregular nine to five day to day.
And so, um, that's somethingthat we've been trying to make,
you know, educate policy makerson.
I will say that, um, I, I don'tthink a lot of lawmakers
(43:44):
understand just how crucialthese reimbursement rates are.
Um, I don't think people, um,realize childcare functions a
lot more similarly to healthcarein some ways, you know, when we
talk about reimbursements andcopays and, you know, and it's a
very regulated industry, muchlike healthcare is in many ways
(44:06):
childcare providers and, and theway that the state works with
them is it's very similar tohealthcare providers.
And, um, you know, the statereally needs to think about how
they're supporting thosechildcare providers to carry out
these duties, as opposed to justpiling more on top of them
without offering the support, orat the very least the financial
(44:26):
support needed for providers toreach these goals.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah.
And I think, you know, the topicthat you, that we're talking
about and the conversation wetalked about this on last time
we had a chance to, to talk,Jake is as hard as the last few
years have been.
I do think, you know, I wastalking about this earlier today
with someone around, like, whenwe go through times of like
challenge or pain or adversity,there's there's growth that
(44:51):
happens out of that.
And I think one of the thingsthat, that I'm hopeful of the
silver lining of the last coupleof years is the spotlight that's
shining on the industry.
That's going to allow us toreally upgrade the entire
framework and foundation of theindustry.
Because even though there, itwas a known challenge, pre 2020,
(45:12):
I just don't think it wasgetting the attention it needed.
And there was little cracks likedeath by a thousand cuts
happening, but this just reallyamplified the impact of the
industry and the challenges thatyou know, are are present right
now.
And so it's, it's amazing tohear organizations like E C, C
out advocating, you know, forproviders two last questions.
(45:33):
Cause I know we're, um, almostout of time, but for, for your
organization, like number one,what's next for you guys?
Where is your focus right now?
Is there something specificallythat you're focused on and
number two, like for ouraudience, um, where, what can
they do like as an individualprovider, is there any
recommendations you can makeabout tapping into these
(45:56):
resources or making their voiceheard any, you know, final
takeaways for, for providerslistening?
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Yeah.
So I'll, I'll start off withyour first question about what
we're focused on.
Um, the, the sustainability ofall of this is what matters.
So federal funding is incrediblyimportant.
We want to try to get some sortof federal solution on the table
and pass by the end of the year.
Because as I mentioned before,um, the sustainability of all of
this really is contingent upondependent funding, but we also
(46:27):
want to remind states that theycan go ahead and create the,
these systems themselves, ifthey care about it enough.
And one state that I thinkeverybody should be watching
right now is New Mexico.
Um, the, the amount of policydevelopment that we've seen on
early childhood alone in thelast three or four years from
New Mexico has been incredible.
(46:47):
I think it's gone from a statethat's been very behind on early
childhood to potentially aleader, um, in, in the nation
for many reasons.
You know, they, it, it, the NewMexico started off creating a
new department of earlychildhood that has, um, cabinet
level representation in thestate.
That's already a big gamechanger.
Suddenly you have a singulardepartment that is now focused
(47:10):
on early childhood issues andcan help tie these completing
issues together.
And right now there are 14states that have consolidated,
um, the authority of likepreschool and childcare into one
office or department.
We think that needs to happenmore throughout the country to
really give that, that brainpower and attention at the
(47:32):
department level to solving alot of these issues.
But then New Mexico has also,um, they just updated their
reimbursement rate settingpractice.
So now they use a costestimation model for subsidy
rates.
So instead of just looking atthe price that, um, providers
are charging and, and coming upwith an average like states
(47:52):
currently do New Mexico looks athow much it costs to provide
high quality care and services.
And that includes staffing.
And then they reimburse basedoff of that number.
And that has led to a drasticincrease, especially for infant
and toddler reimbursement rates.
(48:12):
On top of that, they, theylifted, um, eligibility for
financial assistance to 400% ofthe federal poverty line.
So that's one of the highest inthe country now.
Um, so a lot of great thingscoming out of that state.
That's not only good forfamilies, but great for
providers.
This is on top of paying forscholarships for the workforce
and the number of otherinitiatives, um, out there as
(48:33):
well.
So I just really think everybodyshould be paying attention to
New Mexico providers includedand hopefully advocate for that.
Oh, one last thing on NewMexico, they are looking into a,
um, land grant tax.
They're not waiting for thefederal government to finally
grant them the funding.
They are, they are finding analternative funding source that
(48:54):
is from the state that willcontinue to fund these
initiatives for a long time.
That's the, that's the type ofstate leadership that we need in
order to fix a lot of the issuesthat we see in the childcare
system.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Yeah, that's amazing, but it's nice to have a case
study.
So I'm, I'm glad you broughtthat forward, that other states
can go look at and say, what isworking?
What is sustainable?
And we can go actually pull somebest practices from what they're
doing.
So New Mexico is a place to golook if you're, uh, at a state
level, looking for ways toimplement some of these things
(49:28):
Jake's talking about.
Um, and then, yeah, so forproviders, Jake with kind of
like a, a parting shot, so tospeak, what can our audience do,
or, or what should they do morethan being aware of these
things?
Is there actual action that theycould take to have their voice
heard or be a part of theconversation?
Speaker 3 (49:46):
Yes.
So, um, I would say, and I thinkI said this before, but I would
say it again, cause I also wannarecognize, I know that childcare
providers and business owners,they are incredibly busy at the
same time.
So I know that they don'tnecessarily have the, the time
to dedicate to all of thesethings, but there is likely an
organization in their state or,um, you know, some type of a
(50:08):
consortium in their own statethat is paying attention to
these issues.
So I would say get connected.
It is absolutely worth your, uh,time and, you know, even a fee
to pay into a childcareassociation because, um, they
are the ones that are advocatingfor childcare providers at the
state level.
(50:28):
And, you know, the moreproviders that join those
associations, the more resourcesthe associations have to be able
to effectively advocate and, andmake sure that they can get
those issues, um, clear topolicy makers, um, same thing
nationally.
And, and most of the time youactually may not even have to
pay into a nationalorganization.
There's a lot of ways to, uh, toget involved.
(50:52):
E C C for example, I mentionedthe champions and mixed delivery
calls.
We are giving, um, consistentupdates about what's happening
at the federal level.
We give updates about whatdifferent states are doing.
We share these resources, weshare this information, um, and
it's, it's free to join it's foranyone that's interested.
They, you know, just reach outto us.
You can email us and, and we'llfind a way to get you connected.
(51:13):
There's a number of othernational organizations that are
also doing this work that arefree to join.
Um, but all of this, you know,just paying attention matters,
learning what's happeningmatters because they will also
tell you when to share yourvoice.
Um, and by having that sort ofguidance and, and by, you know,
saying, Hey, we just need youto, you know, pick up the phone
(51:37):
and, and call your legislatorand, and do this.
Um, and, and really spelling outthose actions that you can take
that is incredibly helpfulbecause, um, you know, there's a
time and a place for, um, voicesthat we need and learning about
when those times and places aregoes a long way
Speaker 2 (51:55):
Is really important.
And we'll put, you know, forwhat is worth Jake, we're gonna
put your study on staffing inthe show notes, we'll make sure
and provide contact informationfor E C C, but just in terms of
like somebody who wants to jumpon those mixed delivery calls or
find out more, can you justreally quick give an idea of
how, you know, providers couldfind your organization and, and
(52:16):
participate in those?
Speaker 3 (52:18):
Yeah.
So, um, and I'll give, also feelfree to share my email address
in the notes as well.
Um, because I, I help run thosecalls.
So you can just, uh, uh, link usdirectly if you're involved at
all with the national childcareassociation, that's actually who
we co-host with.
You could probably just followthem on LinkedIn or, or Twitter
or some other source, cuz theydo promote a link to sign up for
those calls.
(52:39):
Um, or you can go to ourwebsite, ECE consortium.org.
And um, we have a contact, um,uh, in information there as
well.
And you can just reach out andsay, you wanna be involved?
The calls are, um, uh, everyother Wednesday at 3:00 PM
Eastern.
Um, but you don't have toattend.
Uh, we send out the, um, theslides and the notes and we know
(53:03):
that a lot of people reviewthose.
Um, you know, when they get achance, since providers are so
busy, um, but we do try to, um,make sure to make them
accessible.
We have a toolkit that, thatgives you resources on just
what's happening.
So, you know, when I was talkingabout, um, the rewritten
childcare and preschoolcomponents of build back better,
(53:24):
we, we have a summary, you know,that's a part of those calls and
it's part of our toolkit.
And so, um, yeah, feel free toget involved and, uh, we would
love to, to have you as a partof the calls.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah, that's amazing.
I appreciate so ECE consortium,if you're interested any of this
content and listening to thisepisode, like reach out, go
check out their website.
There's gonna be links to the,the studies that Jake referenced
in this, in this, um, episode inour show notes and, and get
involved because there's a lotof content, a lot of resource
(53:56):
out there and, and um, you know,Jake really appreciate you
taking time.
Again, I just wanna remindeverybody, this is Jake Stewart
with the early care andeducation consortium, um, did
not disappoint Jake thiscontent.
I think, um, you know, so manyof us in the industry who are
kind of involved in the day today operations of the businesses
that, you know, we run or a partof, um, maybe aren't aware of
(54:19):
all the work that's happening atthe federal level that you guys
are doing.
So really appreciate the time,really appreciate the content
and who knows, maybe we willhave, um, like episode three at
some point in the future.
So thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
Yeah.
I'm looking forward to thetrilogy
always.
Um, it's always a greatconversation.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Thank you for listening to this episode of the
childcare business podcast, toget more insights on ways to
succeed in your childcarebusiness, make sure to hit
subscribe in your podcast app.
So you never miss an episode.
And if you want even morechildcare business tips, tricks
and strategies, head over to ourresource
center@procaresoftware.com untilnext time.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!