April 10, 2023 • 44 mins
AJ Crabill has strong opinions about early childhood education and he's quick to dispel any notion that it should start around preschool.
He is a champion of ECE, and his education experience includes chairing the Kansas City School Board and serving as the deputy commissioner of the Texas Education Agency where he helped spearhead statewide incentives for school districts to expand their pre-K offerings outcomes statewide. He's now a conservator with the DeSoto Independent School District and he coaches school systems nationwide to get clear about what they want for their students.
In this podcast, he talks about why ECE needs to begin WAY earlier than many believe and about the the importance of supporting families and students to help children accelerate when they start kindergarten.
To learn more about AJ and the work he's doing, or to contact him, visit www.ajc7.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Childcare Business Podcast,
brought to you by ProCareSolutions.
This podcast is all about givingchildcare, preschool, daycare,
after school, and other earlyeducation professionals.
A fun and upbeat way to learnabout strategies and inspiration
you can use to thrive.
You'll hear from a variety ofchildcare thought leaders,
(00:30):
including educators, owners, andindustry experts on ways to
innovate, to meet the needs ofthe children you serve.
From practical tips for managingoperations to uplifting stories
of transformation and triumph,this podcast will be chock full
of insights you can use to fullyrealize the potential of your
childcare business.
(00:50):
Let's jump in.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
You know, like always wanna welcome everybody back to
the Childcare Business podcast.
Uh, it's good to have you withus again today.
And look, I'm excited.
I was just talking with ourguest, AJ Kraybill, uh, before
we started recording.
And I, I was telling him, wehave a little bit of a, a, a bio
here to read to kind of tell alittle bit of his story.
But AJ maybe I'll, I'll flip thescript a little bit, if it's
(01:16):
okay.
And give you a chance tointroduce yourself to our
audience.
Can you just talk a little bitabout who you are and what you
do and, and, uh, and we'll gofrom there.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah.
Thank you very much, uh, Ryan,for having me.
And yeah, I'm deeplydisinterested in going through
my bio, but, um,, um,essentially, um, uh, a public
education advocate.
I, I'm believing what's possiblefor children in our communities,
and that that possibility is,uh, most realized through our,
(01:48):
our nation's safety net for allchildren.
Uh, just public education.
And I have the privilege ofworking both with individual
schools to help, uh, implementstudent-led restorative
practices, really helping ensurethat students have the skillset
necessary to help takeresponsibility for the culture
(02:10):
and climate of their schools,and to create a school climate
that is conducive to highachievement.
And, uh, also have the privilegeof coaching school boards across
the country as they are lookingfor ways to be more intensely
focused on improving studentoutcomes.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Excellent.
And I know, I think we'll spendsome time, you know, hopefully
connecting dots from, you know,I know typically when we hear
school boards and public schoolsystems, we think of that K
through 12 environment where,you know, ProCare and, and kind
of a lot of our listeners willlive as in that early education
phase, maybe prior to, you know,students entering to
kindergarten.
(02:49):
But I know that's a part of what
Speaker 3 (02:50):
You're mention.
No, that's, that's, that's adifferent, uh, uh, that's,
that's a different world thanwhat I'm experiencing.
Most of the places where I'm at,um, school systems are no
longer, you know, starting atkindergarten of first grade, uh,
the most of the school systems Iwork with, uh, either have
active partnerships withcommunity providers of pre-k,
(03:12):
um, active partnerships withcommunity providers of zero to
five programming, um, or aredoing some amount of it
internally themselves.
And so, I, I think a lot ofpeople who drug the Kool-Aid on
this thing, that if we reallywant to position our students
for greatness, uh, that comingin after the fact, uh, when
(03:33):
there're already some, um, um,weaknesses in their readiness to
excel, um, isn't, isn't probablythe best investment that we'd be
better off.
How do we support families andhow do we support students
earlier in the process, uh, sothat, uh, we can help them
accelerate when they hitkindergarten and first grade,
(03:55):
not remediate.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I love that.
And, and actually, you know,based on your experience, AJ and
some of the work you're doing,like that model of, you know,
reaching all the way back to,you know, you know, birth zero
to five, and it's not, itdoesn't start
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Concept
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah.
Conception.
Can you speak a little bit aboutthat and maybe do you have an
any examples just for a littlecontext with some of the
districts you work with, whereyou've seen a model of how
districts are partnering all theway back to that, you know,
again, zero to five, where, youknow, in terms of a best
practice, like what's workingand how districts are trying to
embrace what you're describing,that methodology of like, look,
(04:33):
we can't be reactive to thesestudents' progress, and when we
get them at kindergarten, ifthey're already, you know,
behind, we're playing catch upfor the rest of their education.
Yeah.
What, what do you see working?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Well, one of the things that I noticed, and I'm
certainly, you know, not at allthe first to notice, uh, stand
on the shoulders of others whonoticed to perform me and just
pointed it out.
Um, but in my last district, um,about, we found out about 40% of
our students were showing up inkindergarten as much as two
grade levels behind where theyneeded to be in order to be
(05:07):
successful in kindergarten.
No, when I first heard that I,my immediate response was,
that's not a thing.
Like, it's, it is not possiblefor children to be
developmentally two years behindin kindergarten.
Um, but that is, that isabsolutely what we were
experiencing.
And so our responses couldeither be how do we remediate
(05:31):
for that?
How do we build a kindergartenprogram and a first grade,
second grade program that isstrong enough to take 40% of
children being developmentallybehind one, two or more years?
And how do we help catch them upover the course of their first
(05:52):
2, 3, 4 years in our elementaryprograms?
That, that is one approach.
Um, but the reality isremediation is incredibly
inefficient.
And so we began looking at are,are there other options?
And there have been citiesacross the country who have
leaned in to trying to findother ways, um, what some folks
(06:15):
have done, which popularized in,uh, New York, but has picked up
in other places.
Um, certainly we tried to createpartnerships like this in Kansas
City, um, San San Diego, no, notSan Diego.
San Antonio as well known, uh,for their community partnerships
that they did citywide inpartnership with the city and
(06:38):
the district, um, and others.
It's actually spread into anumber of places.
I believe Seattle is doing someof this, is that there's real
value in creating thisinterwoven net of supports so
that the family has all theresources and connections that
(06:58):
it needs in order to really setst it's their children up for
success, um, in a way that isaligned and continual, so people
are less likely to fall throughthe net.
So by thinking on this, is that,that actually can start, um, um,
(07:18):
I pre, before the child is born,and through nurse family
partnerships where local safetynet uh, hospitals are actively
working, uh, with nurses to beengaging with families, uh, when
the child is still in gestation,helping, um, parents understand
(07:41):
what are the types of thingsthat we could be doing at this
point to best set children upfor success.
Obviously at that point in thegame, it's a lot of around
nutrition, but also we now havethe research to know that, uh,
the stress response that mom isexperiencing has a powerful
impact on children, uh, whilethey're still, um, in the womb.
(08:01):
And so trying to figure out howdo we really create a safe and
protective environment, um, forparents, you know, caregivers,
uh, while gestation is takingplace.
Um, and that nurse, uh, familypartnership generally, you know,
runs from, um, from conceptionthrough six months, you know,
after birth.
Um, after that, then, uh, youstep into the gap next with
(08:26):
parents as teachers.
There's some type of programthat's designed to really help
parents have all the tools thatthey need to be effective at
helping children develop the pre, uh, academic, um, skills that
they need.
Um, one area that's, uh, donesome of this really well is
(08:46):
Boston.
They, they have, uh, this wholecitywide initiative they do
around what are the, the kind ofthe early skills that, uh,
children need, and what are thethings that the adults and
caregiver givers in their lifecan be doing to help promote the
development of those things.
(09:07):
I think it's the, I think it'sthe basic five is what they call
it, I think.
Um, but what they're reallylooking at is really that kind
of parents as teachers, uh,timeframe from six months to
three years old, we're reallyinvesting a lot of energy and
making sure that, uh, again, ourparents have all the things that
they need to do, what ourparents won't do, which is to
(09:28):
really set their children up forsuccess in life.
And then after that, then youmove into pre-k whether you're
three-year olds and yourfour-year olds, and really what
are the special experiences thatthey need at that point, um,
that are going to set them up.
Again, a lot of this is stillaround executive functioning,
around play, aroundsocialization, as well as other
(09:50):
pre-literacy numeracy skillsthat then ultimately set you up
to be successful going intokindergarten, first grade, and
beyond.
And so I see this as a completecontinuum.
Some families will have accessto all the resources they need
to ensure that all of thosethings happen without any
external, um, and some familieswill need a little bit of
support here, but not there orthere, but not here.
(10:12):
My argument is that for anyfamily that needs access to
those type of supports, thatthere is a benefit to us at a
societal level to help make surethat those type of supports are
available.
Because as my neighbors,children do great.
My children do great.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah.
I love that.
And, and are you, are youfinding across the country, I
mean, I know that there's gonnabe nuance and variations from
community to community, but areyou finding that there's a gap?
You know, we see this a lot inheadlines, a gap across like
demographics and socioeconomicenvironments that, like the
resources available to studentsand districts varies greatly, or
(10:55):
is it, is it not a resourceissue as much as it is like an
education issue in some, youknow, districts in terms of like
just educating families of whatresources are available to them?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I'd, I'd have to spend some more time thinking
about that.
I'm not, I'm not clear, becauseI can think of kind of counter
examples for each of those thatit, I'm thinking one particular
community, it's a much morerural community where all of the
supports I just described are inplace, but none of them are in
place through formal structures,uh, with the school system or
the city or anything like that.
They're in place through thelocal church, um, and the local
(11:32):
community centers and things ofthat nature where those systems
are just as available, um, tothe general public.
So I, you know, imagine a groupof congregations making these
type of things available toanyone, not just their
congregants.
Um, and so that those networksof safety nets still exist, but
just not necessarily through theauspices of the school system.
(11:54):
So, you know, what I'm, what I'marguing for is that the safety
nets exist.
Uh, I'm agnostic to who isproviding them.
Um, what I would say is itinsists in areas where, for
whatever reason, a lot of ourcommunity organizations,
faith-based organizations, ifthey are not, uh, bridging that
gap, then I absolutely am anadvocate for, uh, formal
(12:17):
governmental structures, whetherit be cities, counties, or
school systems, uh, looking atshould they play a role in
bridging that gap, or at minimumbeing a coordinator of services
among private providers andpractitioners such that there is
some continuity of support for,uh, parents and families, and
that there is some alignment of,uh, curricular alignment so that
(12:40):
what children need to learn,need to know next year over in
that institution, they arereceiving the, uh,
pre-information they need forthat and the preparation they
need for that over here in thisorganization, in this
institution, that there's analignment so that, you know,
we're really maximizing thebenefit that children and
(13:02):
families are experiencing.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah.
And you, uh, uh, you know, I sawsomething that you said on that
topic, you know, just doing alittle bit of research for this,
for this podcast, I know one ofthe things that, you know, you
talk about like the purpose of aschool board in any community is
, and I, I might get this quote,not a hundred percent right, so
correct me, but it's essentiallylike of all the other things a
school board does, the focus isto improve outcomes for your
(13:26):
students, all the other,
Speaker 3 (13:28):
That's the only reason school systems exist is
to improve student outcomes tocause improvements in what
students don't are able to do.
That's absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
So do you find that, that, with that in mind, like
the, the approach and andacceptance of school boards that
you do consulting with andcontracting with that you
interact with, that this notionof embracing the zero to five
year old, like, look, it reallystarts before students get into
that kindergarten age group thatthat's generally accepted, or is
(13:56):
that like something that you'refinding you're having to educate
districts on and continue tokind of like, bring that
forward?
Or is that generally acceptedthat, hey, this starts before
they actually enterkindergarten?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Yeah.
15 years ago having thisconversation, I think people
looked at me as scans and that,that maybe it sounded weird to
folks today, I don't, I don'tthink that concept is, uh, to
people.
I think the only place wherewe're negotiating or navigating
is who is going to be theprovider.
(14:27):
Um, but that children need thesupports seems to be largely
recognized.
And where we have debates is whoshould pay for it, who should
provide it, who should havewhat's say.
Um, and in some communities,they don't want, uh, the public
school system or the city, uh,or the government institutions
(14:49):
playing a role in this.
They, they would rather, um,community organizations,
faith-based organizations bethat safety net, but then that's
on them to make sure that thoseorganizations step up.
And then there, there're partsof the country where that's
certainly true.
Um, I, I see that veryfrequently and a lot of our
rural communities where we dosee, uh, community organizations
step up in a way that issignificant to carry, uh, carry
(15:15):
the gap that might exist in thatcommunity.
Uh, but I generally don't seethat level of, uh, coordination
among community and faith-basedorganizations sufficient to
address those gaps in more urbanareas where there's just a much
more higher density ofpopulation where just the sheer
numbers that we're dealing withyeah.
(15:36):
Are just overwhelming for anyone organization that it frankly
isn't a government organization.
And so the, again, that's why Isay who is providing what
children need to me seems to befairly consistent across
geography, across ideology,across political spectrum,
across the, what children needis constant, how we organize
(15:59):
ourselves as adults to ensurethat those needs are met seems
to be the variable.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah.
And that kind of lines up with,you know, one thing that I, I
saw over and over again and, andkind of researching a little bit
about the work that you'redoing, AJ, is, you know, you
talk about, um, I think this isthe tagline on your website too,
where it's the main page islike, student outcomes don't
change until adult behaviorschange.
That's
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Can you speak a little bit like what, how you
formed or identify that?
Because if I go back a littlebit in your story, it looks like
maybe your very first, at leastpublic community service as it
relates to school boards was inKansas City.
And I know you did a lot of workof aligning the school system
with the e c E providers and,and kind of pushing, you know,
(16:43):
this, this thought about how wecan improve these outcomes for
students by, you know, being aparticipant in their early
stages of life.
But through that you kind ofidentified, you know, it really
boils down to adult behavior.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat that means to you and, and,
and how you use that to drivechange?
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah.
What's critical here is that inmaking that statement, the
student outcomes don't changeuntil adult behaviors change,
that I am actively removing fromculpability, uh, anything about
the child.
And, and so one, one thing thatjust absolutely infuriates me is
anytime as adults that, that weplace on the child, well, the
(17:26):
reason that they are notexcelling is because there's
something intrinsically wrongwith the child.
I'm not suggesting that there'snot circumstances in which that
might be the case.
What I am suggesting is thatwhere I see organizations stand
that positions them to have thelargest net benefit is that they
(17:49):
stand in a place of, if there isanything that is going to be
worthful for this particularchild, it will emerge from my
willingness to evaluate, tointerrogate, and ultimately to
change my adult behavior.
That I'm not gonna wait till weget the right children to show
up before I step into action.
And we're not gonna wait till weget the right parents or the
(18:10):
right system.
But I'm gonna constantly lookingat what is it in my behavior
that could be a cause for thischild not having what they
deserve.
And inside of thatacknowledgement, what is the
next step that I can be takingto be of service to this child?
It is a willful disobedience tothe idea of casting blame
(18:32):
anywhere else.
Uh, and, and instead saying thatI'm going to be personally
responsible for the welfare ofthe children in my community,
um, so much so that I'm, thatI'm not going to look to share
that responsibility, you know,with anyone else.
I'm not gonna be looking toblame the, um, the failure of
our children having their needsmet on anyone else.
So that's, that's the concept.
(18:53):
And, and what I found is thatwhen a system, uh, when a team
of adults choose to stand inthis place, cause I'm not
suggesting to you this is sometruth or something, I'm, I'm
saying this is a place to standinside of which we're more
empowered to get results forchildren.
That if I'm, that, if I'mcomfortable looking for excuses,
if I'm comfortable looking forsomeone else to blame, there
(19:16):
will always be the occasion toblame.
There will always be somerational excuse for why children
didn't do what they needed.
And to the extent that I'mwilling to accept that children
will suffer.
But, but if I am, if I amwillfully disobedient to my ego
need, and instead say, you knowwhat?
I am personally responsible forcreating the context of
(19:37):
greatness for the children of mycommunity, and that if there's
not greatness for them rightnow, that the lack thereof is a
demonstration of my behavior,and, and that as I change my
behavior, that I can actuallyhave an impact on what's
possible for those children.
That when organizations chooseto stand in that place and
(19:58):
choose to operate from thatplace, the great things, uh, are
more likely to happen forchildren.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah.
I, I mean I, obviously it's, Ithink that's a, a mindset and a
framework that probably appliesto all different, you know,
areas of life for individuals oflike looking at like, look,
what, what can I control?
It's what I'm capable ofcontrolling.
It's what I can takeresponsibility of.
It's what I can that's right.
Be responsible for, and then gomake an impact with what I can
(20:26):
do.
And if everybody kind of doesthat in whatever, you know,
environment or arena we're in,I, I love that approach to, you
know, engaging with life.
Do you find when you're, youknow, consulting with districts,
and I say consulting cuz I, Ibelieve that you interact a with
a lot of different public schoolsystems.
I know that you do more, workmore closely with some than
(20:48):
others, but do you find thatmindset is prevalent?
Like that mindset of, you know,I, I see a lot of headlines
around, you know, how difficultit is to be a teacher nowadays
and the challenges of being inthe classroom with the number of
students and the differentconstraints.
And so I, you know, to, to playthe other side of that card, do
you hear a lot of like, wellthat's, you know, that's great
(21:10):
for you to say AJ about takingresponsibility, but it's a lot
easier said than done cuz theenvironment has changed it.
Would you say that, is that afair, accurate representation of
how a lot of teachers feel?
Or is, is that an unfairassessment that we see in the
media and do you find a lot ofpublic educators that embrace
that kind of approach that youjust described?
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Yeah, one of the things in my, in a previous job,
I worked at the state educationagency in Texas, and part of my
role there was to support ourschool improvement team.
And so the school improvementteam at the state agency is
really responsible for reachingout to and working with the
(21:54):
lowest performing 5% of schoolsacross the state.
Um, in Texas it's like 400schools.
I mean, it's a big state.
There's a lot of schools.
And so the lowest performing 4%is still a huge number.
And so in this role, I, uh, myteam and I, we'd go out and we'd
visit some of these schools,even visiting the lowest
(22:15):
performing 5% of schools acrossthe state.
I can't recall a single time Iever walked into a school and
saw a lazy teacher who just waskicked up their feet and wasn't
trying, or, uh, I can't recall asingle time or ever saw a
teacher who, you know, they justdidn't care if kids learned or
not.
(22:35):
Like, I'm just here for apaycheck.
Like I, you would think ifthere's any place I'm gonna see
it, I'd see it in the lowestperforming 5% of schools across
the country.
Yeah, across the state.
Never saw it.
What I saw without exception waspeople working hard, people
putting in the best effort thatthey knew how people putting it
all on the field, doingeverything that they could in
(22:57):
the service of the children intheir classroom.
Uh, now that didn't change thefact that clearly something
wasn't working, but what was atplay wasn't that there weren't
people who were already willing,uh, to be, uh, the genesis of
transformation.
The students, like really theywere just supports that they
(23:17):
didn't have that they, like, youcould row as hard as you want,
but if the person on the otherside of the canoe is rowing in
the exact opposite direction,uh, then you're probably not
gonna go anywhere.
And if the person in the frontof the canoe is rowing off in a
different direction, and sothere are things like alignment
that matter.
And so, you know, the firstgrade teachers go in that
direction, the second gradeteachers go in that direction,
(23:38):
third grade teachers, then allthree of them can be working as
hard as they possibly can, butit's still not amount to the
impact that they intend.
Those are the type of issues I'drun across is people engaged in
mis unintentionally misalignedbehavior.
But no, this idea that there arethese and teachers who are
hostile to the possibility forchildren, I've, I've not met
(24:00):
that teacher anywhere.
And so this idea that people arewilling to be personally
accountable for what's workingnow, working with children, that
seems to be fairly constant.
It's inside of that.
And really reflecting on thatand living into that and trying
to identify, okay, what is itthat I specifically could be
doing differently, uh, the thechanging of which would really
(24:25):
accrue to the benefit ofchildren.
And, and I find peopleconstantly struggling with that.
Like, I just don't know what isthe change I need to make that
would have the biggestdifference.
But that's where I see peopleliving the most is what is the
thing that is most needed andnot knowing what that is and not
knowing, does that sit overthere with you?
Does that sit over here with me?
But my experience has veryconsistently been that inviting
(24:49):
people into that conversationwith teachers all over the
state, all over the country,that folks are eager to be in
that conversation.
And then what they're hungry foris, okay, then what is the
specific thing I need to do?
What is the next step?
And then the next is across thecountry.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah.
That's an encouraging narrativeand story and a perspective that
I think is, is valuable that,you know, we've got really
talented, passionate educators,you know, across the spectrum,
you know, zero to, you know,they, when students graduate,
they just need resources andeducation and support.
And it's not a, an issue of arethey passionate and wanting the
(25:32):
best outcomes for students.
So I personally, I love to hearthat that's what individuals who
have boots on the ground areseeing in our public schools
specifically.
Just maybe to, to talk back to EC E and what, when we talk about
early, you know, childhoodeducation prior to that
kindergarten phase mm-hmm.
and likecurriculum and like what
(25:52):
districts, when you're, whenyou're talking about, hey, when
a student enrolls inkindergarten, the minimum
benchmarks that we're lookingfor that student to be able to
have.
Like, is there, is there a rolethat curriculum plays both when
parents are leading theeducation at home, but also, you
know, in in early childhoodprograms and in preschool
(26:12):
settings, is are there certaineducational benchmarks that
you're looking for at thatkindergarten level?
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Yes.
And this ver tends to vary bystate.
There are a lot of differentstates will have a kindergarten
screener that is offered by thestate agency or that is fairly
commonly used across the stateas a way of evaluating where
children when they're cominginto kindergarten and how do we
need to adapt the kindergartenexperience to match them.
If, if I had to make a, a callto action for your listeners,
(26:44):
it'd be what are ways that ourearly childhood providers are
partnering with the schoolsystem to really study what is
it that students need to come tokindergarten successful with,
and how do we back map that intothe pre-kindergarten experience
(27:06):
such that children have thegreatest chance of being
successful.
Often I find this is just analignment issue that people just
aren't talking to people likeoften.
It is really that simple, what Iwould call on, uh, on your
listeners to consider, talk withyour local school district,
figure out when is theprofessional development for
kindergarten teachers and canour staff, you know, join for
(27:29):
free?
Like, uh, can we come in andparticipate with your
kindergarten, first gradeteachers and professional
development so that we canunderstand what you all are
doing and we can try to figureout what adjustments do we need
to make as community providersto try to make sure that we're
in sync in a way that's in thebest interest of our students.
Uh, it's a, it's an extraeffort.
I'll, I'll be the first toacknowledge it's an extra
(27:50):
effort, but it's not an effortthat's designed to benefit me.
It's designed a bit for mychildren.
And I think that's somethingthat, you know, all of our
community providers will getbehind that I, that I'm willing
to put in an extra effort,willing to take that extra step,
uh, if the district is willingto be a partner with it, uh, in
the benefit of our children.
I'd also be looking at alignmentof instructional materials and
(28:12):
visiting with the curriculuminstruction, uh, team at the
school or at or at the, or atthe school system to talk about
what are the materials you allare using and is there any way
that we could have access tothose materials.
A lot of school systems arealready operating their own
pre-K programs themselves, whichmeans they have their own pre-k,
(28:32):
um, um, instructional materials,their own pre-K assessment
instruments and all these sortof things.
Are there ways that they'd bewilling to partner with
community providers to getaccess to those so that the
community provider in the schooldistrict can be working from the
same, uh, playbook, singing fromthe same hymnal?
Again, not because that's greatfor the provider or for the
(28:52):
school system, but because thatwould be great for children.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah.
Because then they're gonna havea natural progression from that,
you know, preschool or thatenrichment environment in the
care and garden, which, youknow, I would imagine maybe
there's studies on this, but Iwould imagine if a student has a
seamless, you know, transitionfrom an education standpoint, it
helps with all the other, youknow, the social factors and
their, you know, adoption of,um, you know, making friends
(29:18):
and, and you know, emotionalwellbeing and, and those types
of things.
I don't know if there's studieson that, but it seems like if
there's public school systemspartnering with their e c e
providers, like you said, totruly focus on what's best for
the students in our community,that that type of partnership
would play a big role in that.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, honestly, I can't think of studying
specifically about thetransition from pre-K to
kindergarten though.
I'd be surprised if one doesn'texist.
I have read studies that talkabout the transition from
elementary to middle or frommiddle to high.
And what sometimes comes out inthose is this assertion that
where you see children struggle,um, in those transition years is
(30:01):
when there are significantshifts in expectations, uh,
significant shifts in norms, uh,that the students, um, aren't
prepared for the offered anappropriate amount of
scaffolding for.
And so they need to kind ofthrowing children into a new
environment without adequatepreparation and, and just not
working out for them.
(30:21):
And, and so if that's true inthose transition grades, I don't
see any reason why that wouldn'talso likely be true, um, in the,
uh, pre-k to kindergartentransition as well.
Um, such that a strongcollaboration between providers
could actually make a realdifference for children.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, I would think so too.
And I, you know, from yourcomment earlier and, and some of
what you've seen, you know,across all the work that you're
doing, you know, the idea oftrying to have to play catch up,
it seems like such a difficultchallenge with students.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
It's not a good plan.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah, it's not a good plan.
So the earlier you can be infront of just getting that child
in the right system with theright support, all the right
resources to start from day one,like you said, even before that
child's born, we're supportingthat child's development and
education that that environmentfosters the greatest chance of
(31:17):
success for the greatest numberof students it sounds like, as
opposed to playing catch up.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
So certainly.
Well, and, and I'm gonna run therisk of insulting, I don't know
if this will be insulting to youor any of your listeners, but,
uh, I, I wanna draw adistinction, um, that the
evidence I'm looking at does notsuggest that the same benefits
are conferred by daycare as theyare by, uh, early childhood
education.
You know, um, I realize I'mbeing a little bit flippant
here, but you know, five kids ina play pen at Grandma's house
(31:43):
while she watches these days ofour lives, is not the same thing
as actually having a, uh,authentic early childhood
education, uh, experience, uh,that, um, is benefited by and
led by, uh, professionals whohave training in early childhood
education development.
We, we have an understandingthat the neurological
development taking place and azero to five space is very
(32:05):
different.
And what is developmentallyappropriate for that grade age
span is very different than whatwould be appropriate for
kindergarten first.
And I, I could point to plentyof school district who said, oh,
well pre-K, that's just, uh,we'll just put some kindergarten
teachers there and it's the samething, right?
It's in fact not the same thing.
It's like saying kindergarten'sthe same thing, you know, is
eighth grade.
Like, it's just, it'sfundamentally a different thing
(32:28):
requires different skillset,different tool set, um, and
different preparation.
And so to have a truly effectiveearly childhood education
program, we need professionalswho have actually been trained.
Um, and what are the needs ofchildren at those age groups
and, and how are we making surethat those needs are being
honored in the program designthat they're receiving?
(32:49):
Uh, daycare and early childhoodeducation are not the same thing
.
And I realize that's gonna beinsulting some, some folks, but
the evidence on this seems to bepretty clear.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah.
I'm glad you brought up thattopic cuz I think, you know, I
think in our industry, and whenI, again, I, when I refer to our
industry, you know, the e c espace, you know, we have seen a
major shift over the past, youknow, couple of decades from the
idea of, look, it really doesn'tmatter, as long as the child is
alive from zero to five, oncethey get to kindergarten, it'll
all work out fine.
(33:19):
But I think we've seen thisshift that those early years are
extremely,
Speaker 3 (33:24):
They matter,
Speaker 2 (33:25):
They matter, they matter.
And maybe more so arguably thana lot of the other stages
throughout a child's developmentin terms of how the brain
develops during that, you know,zero to five.
And so with that in mind, yourpoint about, you know, offending
some, I think your sentimentresonates with our audience that
there is a responsibility and adesire from, you know, our
(33:48):
community to be educators topartner and to get these
students on the right track andready for that, you know, that
kindergarten experience forsure.
I like that.
What, how did you get, uh, I'mcurious, I, you usually, I would
ask this at the beginning, butyou know, kind of rewinding your
story a little bit and the workyou're doing now, aj I, if I
read correctly, the first timethat I saw that you were in
(34:12):
public service was in KansasCity as part of the school
board.
Was there something that, likewhat was the, the, the seed of
that for you?
Uh, uh, something you've alwaysbeen passionate about in terms
of education?
Was it your own personalexperience or something that led
you to kind of like dedicateyour energy into these causes?
Speaker 3 (34:30):
So certainly there's, uh, I think all of us are in
some way inspired by our ownpersonal narrative, own personal
story.
I certainly had tremendousblessings from some of my public
school teachers who just steppedup for me in ways that I was not
even cognizant of how hard theywere going to bat for me at the
time that I've only learned inrecent years from reaching back
(34:53):
out to them.
Uh, in fact, um, in mybook, I, uh, in the introduction
to the book, I tell a storyabout two of my teachers who,
um, just really stood up for meand, and didn't take crap off of
me and really said, no,you're gonna be great and we're
gonna make it happen.
And this whole surly attitudeyou have, we're not accepting
(35:15):
that, um, you're going to be,you are capable of more and
you're gonna be more.
And so these two teachers, theypushed for that even while other
teachers were duped into, uh,believing me what I pretended
that I was not capable anddidn't want to engage and didn't
wanna learn, uh, that I tell astory of two teachers who could
not be fooled.
Um, and one of my favorite,favorite moments as I was
(35:38):
writing the book is I actuallyreached out to, reached out to
them and one of them lives inPhoenix now, actually flew to
Phoenix, um, to meet with her.
Um, and it's like, Hey, I don'tknow if you remember who I am.
She's like, oh, I rememberexactly who you are and I've
followed you, uh, ever since,you know, high school and you
(35:58):
know, um, when you startedbusinesses and when you got into
education and you know, all thethings you're doing.
I've followed you when you wentto Texas and you know, I'm just
so proud of all you'veaccomplished.
And I'm like, over here like,yeah, I'm all choke it up.
It's like, it's, it's thepollens, the pollen.
Um, you know, but like, shepoured into me and, and she told
me stories that day that I hadno idea some of the, the links
(36:21):
that her and some of the otherteachers went to to try to make
sure that I got, uh, theeducation that I needed in order
to be able to have thisconversation with you today.
Um, and so certainly, you know,when it comes to, you know, why
I do this work, uh, certainly asignificant portion of that is
caught up in, I've just beenrichly blessed, richly blessed
(36:43):
beyond all belief, beyond alldeserving.
And the manifestation of thatblessing, uh, very often was
with the hands of teachers.
Um, and so what, having thisdeep seated desire for other
children to experience the sameblessings that I experienced is,
is certainly a significant partof it.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Do you remember going back to those teachers that you
just referenced for yourselfpersonally, like at that time in
your life where they wereholding you accountable and
calling you your attitude out,they saw potential and they saw
what you were capable of.
Do you remember actuallyrecognizing that at the time?
Like, oh, wow, like I'mattracted to that in these
(37:26):
teachers that they're not takingmy act?
Or was it later in life as youreflected back that you, you saw
that?
I'm just curious, like ifstudents generally recognize
that.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
No, I, I think my story is very much caught up in,
um, a common story that manypeople share and that there's
that teacher who you don't careanything about their subject
going into the class, but thenafter being around them, the
kind of the enthusiasm theybring to it, the sense of
(38:00):
connection and investment thatthey show in you, all of a
sudden now you care about atopic that you never cared about
before.
Yeah.
Um, you know, you know, Mr.
Deth, my senior year, um,teaching history and
anthropology and was the, um,facilitator for the chess club,
three things that I prior tothat was like, I don't care
(38:22):
about history, anthropology,your chest wound up being on the
chess team.
Um, but that's because, you know, his investment in me, his
caring, his expression of lovefor me and his expression of
love for his content areas gotme excited about it.
Um, you know, you know, Mrs.
Murray, the economics teacher, Ihad no interest in economics and
(38:43):
it thought it would be an easy,you, uh, uh, easy elective.
Um, but her passion foreconomics, her passion for
business, you know, the micromesa and macro economics, um,
got me excited and herinvestment in me and her
unwillingness to see anythingother than greatness in me and
got me to, you know, getinvolved with, um, the, uh,
(39:06):
junior achievement, um, programand, uh, win the regional small
business competition, you know,for high schoolers that year.
Uh, but this is, this, this wasnot a whole lot about who I was,
how I showed up, and what myinterests were.
This is about the love anddedication that they had both
(39:26):
for their content area and forme as a kind of attitudinal,
surly student in their class.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah.
And I can see how some of thathas shaped, you know, your p
philosophy, guiding philosophiesand what you do now or just
around Yeah.
You know, taking accountability,meaning you might see a student
who's acting out or shows thatthey're disinterested or, but
you don't know that child'sstory.
You don't know what they'recapable of, and you actually
just own what you can control,which is love on that student,
(39:56):
invest in them and trust thatthat's gonna produce the best
outcomes.
And so you see it happen.
Were they, were those teacherssurprised?
Like that teacher in Phoenix,just last question on that
topic, was she surprised to hearfrom you that the impact that it
it had on you?
Was she not surprised?
Was that a common theme for her?
(40:17):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (40:18):
You know, I, you know, I don't know that I fully
asked that.
I do know that I'm gonna be inPhoenix soon and I plan to, uh,
grab a bite to eat with heragain, I'm gonna add that to my
list of things, you know, toask.
Cause I didn't really, I think Iwas so caught up in the emotion
of the moment learning about theway that she stood in the gap
for me, that I didn't even getaround to asking how commonplace
was this in her experience?
(40:39):
You know, how often was this theneed that she was finding
herself, having to step intothat.
Um, I, I'm certainly curiousabout that now.
And so, you know, when I, when Ireconnect with her again, when
I'm back in town, um, uh, that'sdefinitely gonna be on the
conversation,
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Ask that question.
And I think it's a good, youknow, to have the perspective,
you know, obviously on a showlike this, to, to hear a story
like that, you know, so much ofour audience, aj, our teachers
and educators and, and just,it's just a great reminder.
Cause I think teachers andeducators need that.
Like, you are making adifference and they're students
every day that you have theability to impact and you just
(41:15):
don't know what they're gonna goon
Speaker 3 (41:16):
To do out.
They're planting seeds and theydon't know what the or is gonna
look like 10, 20, 30, 40 yearsfrom now, but they, but they,
but they're expert, expert seedsowers.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
That's a great way to say it.
And then you reference, I knowwe're, we're kind of running
short on time here, but I wannagive you an opportunity.
You referenced the, a book thatyou wrote recently, and I, and I
always try to give our, you know, um, you know, our guests, the
ability to share how, how canour audience find you, like for
people in districts across thecountry who maybe are interested
in the work you're doing andsome of the thoughts you've
(41:46):
shared, you reference to books,so maybe you could plug that,
but also how can our audiencefind you if they're interested
in learning more about whatyou're doing?
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Yeah.
In addition to working withindividual schools.
Um, and then in addition tobeing an advocate for education
policies that I believe can makea difference, like early
childhood education policies,um, I also work with school
boards and really challengingthem as the local policymaker to
lean into these type ofstrategies.
And so I finally got around to,after doing a lot of coaching on
(42:16):
it, finding a book on it.
And the book is called Great ontheir Behalf, you know, why
school boards fail and How Yourscan become effective.
And, and it really, um, is thebook that I wish, um, that
somebody had written that I hadaccess to.
Um, ideally I'd hope that yourreaders would, uh, that your
listeners would consider that ifthey really have a heart, uh,
(42:38):
for children and they reallywanna see great things for the
children in their community,consider running for your local
school board.
Um, and that the intention ofthis book is to help prepare you
with the knowledge, skills, andmindset necessary, uh, to be
effective on behalf of thestudents you serve.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Excellent.
And it's, if I'm not mistaken,your website too.
I know there's some content onthere, but, um, is it ajc
seven.com?
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Uh, yeah, people just go to aj cra.com.
Um, it gets you there.
If you wanna learn more aboutthe book, go behalf com.
Um, but to connect with mepersonally or to see some of the
things that, uh, I'm doing inthe space, yeah, just go to aj
cra.com.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Excellent.
Aj, we, uh, we really appreciateyou carving out an hour of your
time to spend with us.
I think it was, uh, aninsightful conversation.
Exciting to hear the work that'shappening and we'll track along
and we'll follow the work thatyou're doing, maybe vice versa,
and maybe there'll be a part twoat some point in the future.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Well, I'm just grateful for you making time for
me and just keep doing the greatwork you're doing.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Thank you, aj.
Have a great day.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Thank you for listening to this episode of the
Childcare Business Podcast.
To get more insights on ways tosucceed in your childcare
business, make sure to hitsubscribe in your podcast app so
you never miss an episode.
And if you want even morechildcare, business tips,
tricks, and strategies, headover to our resource
center@procaresoftware.com.
(44:07):
Until next time,
Welcome to the Childcare Business Podcast,
brought to you by ProCareSolutions.
This podcast is all about givingchildcare, preschool, daycare,
after school, and other earlyeducation professionals.
A fun and upbeat way to learnabout strategies and inspiration
you can use to thrive.
You'll hear from a variety ofchildcare thought leaders,
(00:30):
including educators, owners, andindustry experts on ways to
innovate, to meet the needs ofthe children you serve.
From practical tips for managingoperations to uplifting stories
of transformation and triumph,this podcast will be chock full
of insights you can use to fullyrealize the potential of your
childcare business.
(00:50):
Let's jump in.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
You know, like always wanna welcome everybody back to
the Childcare Business podcast.
Uh, it's good to have you withus again today.
And look, I'm excited.
I was just talking with ourguest, AJ Kraybill, uh, before
we started recording.
And I, I was telling him, wehave a little bit of a, a, a bio
here to read to kind of tell alittle bit of his story.
But AJ maybe I'll, I'll flip thescript a little bit, if it's
(01:16):
okay.
And give you a chance tointroduce yourself to our
audience.
Can you just talk a little bitabout who you are and what you
do and, and, uh, and we'll gofrom there.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah.
Thank you very much, uh, Ryan,for having me.
And yeah, I'm deeplydisinterested in going through
my bio, but, um,
education advocate.
I, I'm believing what's possiblefor children in our communities,
and that that possibility is,uh, most realized through our,
(01:48):
our nation's safety net for allchildren.
Uh, just public education.
And I have the privilege ofworking both with individual
schools to help, uh, implementstudent-led restorative
practices, really helping ensurethat students have the skillset
necessary to help takeresponsibility for the culture
(02:10):
and climate of their schools,and to create a school climate
that is conducive to highachievement.
And, uh, also have the privilegeof coaching school boards across
the country as they are lookingfor ways to be more intensely
focused on improving studentoutcomes.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Excellent.
And I know, I think we'll spendsome time, you know, hopefully
connecting dots from, you know,I know typically when we hear
school boards and public schoolsystems, we think of that K
through 12 environment where,you know, ProCare and, and kind
of a lot of our listeners willlive as in that early education
phase, maybe prior to, you know,students entering to
kindergarten.
(02:49):
But I know that's a part of what
Speaker 3 (02:50):
You're mention.
No, that's, that's, that's adifferent, uh, uh, that's,
that's a different world thanwhat I'm experiencing.
Most of the places where I'm at,um, school systems are no
longer, you know, starting atkindergarten of first grade, uh,
the most of the school systems Iwork with, uh, either have
active partnerships withcommunity providers of pre-k,
(03:12):
um, active partnerships withcommunity providers of zero to
five programming, um, or aredoing some amount of it
internally themselves.
And so, I, I think a lot ofpeople who drug the Kool-Aid on
this thing, that if we reallywant to position our students
for greatness, uh, that comingin after the fact, uh, when
(03:33):
there're already some, um, um,weaknesses in their readiness to
excel, um, isn't, isn't probablythe best investment that we'd be
better off.
How do we support families andhow do we support students
earlier in the process, uh, sothat, uh, we can help them
accelerate when they hitkindergarten and first grade,
(03:55):
not remediate.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I love that.
And, and actually, you know,based on your experience, AJ and
some of the work you're doing,like that model of, you know,
reaching all the way back to,you know, you know, birth zero
to five, and it's not, itdoesn't start
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Concept
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah.
Conception.
Can you speak a little bit aboutthat and maybe do you have an
any examples just for a littlecontext with some of the
districts you work with, whereyou've seen a model of how
districts are partnering all theway back to that, you know,
again, zero to five, where, youknow, in terms of a best
practice, like what's workingand how districts are trying to
embrace what you're describing,that methodology of like, look,
(04:33):
we can't be reactive to thesestudents' progress, and when we
get them at kindergarten, ifthey're already, you know,
behind, we're playing catch upfor the rest of their education.
Yeah.
What, what do you see working?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Well, one of the things that I noticed, and I'm
certainly, you know, not at allthe first to notice, uh, stand
on the shoulders of others whonoticed to perform me and just
pointed it out.
Um, but in my last district, um,about, we found out about 40% of
our students were showing up inkindergarten as much as two
grade levels behind where theyneeded to be in order to be
(05:07):
successful in kindergarten.
No, when I first heard that I,my immediate response was,
that's not a thing.
Like, it's, it is not possiblefor children to be
developmentally two years behindin kindergarten.
Um, but that is, that isabsolutely what we were
experiencing.
And so our responses couldeither be how do we remediate
(05:31):
for that?
How do we build a kindergartenprogram and a first grade,
second grade program that isstrong enough to take 40% of
children being developmentallybehind one, two or more years?
And how do we help catch them upover the course of their first
(05:52):
2, 3, 4 years in our elementaryprograms?
That, that is one approach.
Um, but the reality isremediation is incredibly
inefficient.
And so we began looking at are,are there other options?
And there have been citiesacross the country who have
leaned in to trying to findother ways, um, what some folks
(06:15):
have done, which popularized in,uh, New York, but has picked up
in other places.
Um, certainly we tried to createpartnerships like this in Kansas
City, um, San San Diego, no, notSan Diego.
San Antonio as well known, uh,for their community partnerships
that they did citywide inpartnership with the city and
(06:38):
the district, um, and others.
It's actually spread into anumber of places.
I believe Seattle is doing someof this, is that there's real
value in creating thisinterwoven net of supports so
that the family has all theresources and connections that
(06:58):
it needs in order to really setst it's their children up for
success, um, in a way that isaligned and continual, so people
are less likely to fall throughthe net.
So by thinking on this, is that,that actually can start, um, um,
(07:18):
I pre, before the child is born,and through nurse family
partnerships where local safetynet uh, hospitals are actively
working, uh, with nurses to beengaging with families, uh, when
the child is still in gestation,helping, um, parents understand
(07:41):
what are the types of thingsthat we could be doing at this
point to best set children upfor success.
Obviously at that point in thegame, it's a lot of around
nutrition, but also we now havethe research to know that, uh,
the stress response that mom isexperiencing has a powerful
impact on children, uh, whilethey're still, um, in the womb.
(08:01):
And so trying to figure out howdo we really create a safe and
protective environment, um, forparents, you know, caregivers,
uh, while gestation is takingplace.
Um, and that nurse, uh, familypartnership generally, you know,
runs from, um, from conceptionthrough six months, you know,
after birth.
Um, after that, then, uh, youstep into the gap next with
(08:26):
parents as teachers.
There's some type of programthat's designed to really help
parents have all the tools thatthey need to be effective at
helping children develop the pre, uh, academic, um, skills that
they need.
Um, one area that's, uh, donesome of this really well is
(08:46):
Boston.
They, they have, uh, this wholecitywide initiative they do
around what are the, the kind ofthe early skills that, uh,
children need, and what are thethings that the adults and
caregiver givers in their lifecan be doing to help promote the
development of those things.
(09:07):
I think it's the, I think it'sthe basic five is what they call
it, I think.
Um, but what they're reallylooking at is really that kind
of parents as teachers, uh,timeframe from six months to
three years old, we're reallyinvesting a lot of energy and
making sure that, uh, again, ourparents have all the things that
they need to do, what ourparents won't do, which is to
(09:28):
really set their children up forsuccess in life.
And then after that, then youmove into pre-k whether you're
three-year olds and yourfour-year olds, and really what
are the special experiences thatthey need at that point, um,
that are going to set them up.
Again, a lot of this is stillaround executive functioning,
around play, aroundsocialization, as well as other
(09:50):
pre-literacy numeracy skillsthat then ultimately set you up
to be successful going intokindergarten, first grade, and
beyond.
And so I see this as a completecontinuum.
Some families will have accessto all the resources they need
to ensure that all of thosethings happen without any
external, um, and some familieswill need a little bit of
support here, but not there orthere, but not here.
(10:12):
My argument is that for anyfamily that needs access to
those type of supports, thatthere is a benefit to us at a
societal level to help make surethat those type of supports are
available.
Because as my neighbors,children do great.
My children do great.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah.
I love that.
And, and are you, are youfinding across the country, I
mean, I know that there's gonnabe nuance and variations from
community to community, but areyou finding that there's a gap?
You know, we see this a lot inheadlines, a gap across like
demographics and socioeconomicenvironments that, like the
resources available to studentsand districts varies greatly, or
(10:55):
is it, is it not a resourceissue as much as it is like an
education issue in some, youknow, districts in terms of like
just educating families of whatresources are available to them?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I'd, I'd have to spend some more time thinking
about that.
I'm not, I'm not clear, becauseI can think of kind of counter
examples for each of those thatit, I'm thinking one particular
community, it's a much morerural community where all of the
supports I just described are inplace, but none of them are in
place through formal structures,uh, with the school system or
the city or anything like that.
They're in place through thelocal church, um, and the local
(11:32):
community centers and things ofthat nature where those systems
are just as available, um, tothe general public.
So I, you know, imagine a groupof congregations making these
type of things available toanyone, not just their
congregants.
Um, and so that those networksof safety nets still exist, but
just not necessarily through theauspices of the school system.
(11:54):
So, you know, what I'm, what I'marguing for is that the safety
nets exist.
Uh, I'm agnostic to who isproviding them.
Um, what I would say is itinsists in areas where, for
whatever reason, a lot of ourcommunity organizations,
faith-based organizations, ifthey are not, uh, bridging that
gap, then I absolutely am anadvocate for, uh, formal
(12:17):
governmental structures, whetherit be cities, counties, or
school systems, uh, looking atshould they play a role in
bridging that gap, or at minimumbeing a coordinator of services
among private providers andpractitioners such that there is
some continuity of support for,uh, parents and families, and
that there is some alignment of,uh, curricular alignment so that
(12:40):
what children need to learn,need to know next year over in
that institution, they arereceiving the, uh,
pre-information they need forthat and the preparation they
need for that over here in thisorganization, in this
institution, that there's analignment so that, you know,
we're really maximizing thebenefit that children and
(13:02):
families are experiencing.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah.
And you, uh, uh, you know, I sawsomething that you said on that
topic, you know, just doing alittle bit of research for this,
for this podcast, I know one ofthe things that, you know, you
talk about like the purpose of aschool board in any community is
, and I, I might get this quote,not a hundred percent right, so
correct me, but it's essentiallylike of all the other things a
school board does, the focus isto improve outcomes for your
(13:26):
students, all the other,
Speaker 3 (13:28):
That's the only reason school systems exist is
to improve student outcomes tocause improvements in what
students don't are able to do.
That's absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
So do you find that, that, with that in mind, like
the, the approach and andacceptance of school boards that
you do consulting with andcontracting with that you
interact with, that this notionof embracing the zero to five
year old, like, look, it reallystarts before students get into
that kindergarten age group thatthat's generally accepted, or is
(13:56):
that like something that you'refinding you're having to educate
districts on and continue tokind of like, bring that
forward?
Or is that generally acceptedthat, hey, this starts before
they actually enterkindergarten?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Yeah.
15 years ago having thisconversation, I think people
looked at me as scans and that,that maybe it sounded weird to
folks today, I don't, I don'tthink that concept is, uh, to
people.
I think the only place wherewe're negotiating or navigating
is who is going to be theprovider.
(14:27):
Um, but that children need thesupports seems to be largely
recognized.
And where we have debates is whoshould pay for it, who should
provide it, who should havewhat's say.
Um, and in some communities,they don't want, uh, the public
school system or the city, uh,or the government institutions
(14:49):
playing a role in this.
They, they would rather, um,community organizations,
faith-based organizations bethat safety net, but then that's
on them to make sure that thoseorganizations step up.
And then there, there're partsof the country where that's
certainly true.
Um, I, I see that veryfrequently and a lot of our
rural communities where we dosee, uh, community organizations
step up in a way that issignificant to carry, uh, carry
(15:15):
the gap that might exist in thatcommunity.
Uh, but I generally don't seethat level of, uh, coordination
among community and faith-basedorganizations sufficient to
address those gaps in more urbanareas where there's just a much
more higher density ofpopulation where just the sheer
numbers that we're dealing withyeah.
(15:36):
Are just overwhelming for anyone organization that it frankly
isn't a government organization.
And so the, again, that's why Isay who is providing what
children need to me seems to befairly consistent across
geography, across ideology,across political spectrum,
across the, what children needis constant, how we organize
(15:59):
ourselves as adults to ensurethat those needs are met seems
to be the variable.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah.
And that kind of lines up with,you know, one thing that I, I
saw over and over again and, andkind of researching a little bit
about the work that you'redoing, AJ, is, you know, you
talk about, um, I think this isthe tagline on your website too,
where it's the main page islike, student outcomes don't
change until adult behaviorschange.
That's
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Can you speak a little bit like what, how you
formed or identify that?
Because if I go back a littlebit in your story, it looks like
maybe your very first, at leastpublic community service as it
relates to school boards was inKansas City.
And I know you did a lot of workof aligning the school system
with the e c E providers and,and kind of pushing, you know,
(16:43):
this, this thought about how wecan improve these outcomes for
students by, you know, being aparticipant in their early
stages of life.
But through that you kind ofidentified, you know, it really
boils down to adult behavior.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat that means to you and, and,
and how you use that to drivechange?
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah.
What's critical here is that inmaking that statement, the
student outcomes don't changeuntil adult behaviors change,
that I am actively removing fromculpability, uh, anything about
the child.
And, and so one, one thing thatjust absolutely infuriates me is
anytime as adults that, that weplace on the child, well, the
(17:26):
reason that they are notexcelling is because there's
something intrinsically wrongwith the child.
I'm not suggesting that there'snot circumstances in which that
might be the case.
What I am suggesting is thatwhere I see organizations stand
that positions them to have thelargest net benefit is that they
(17:49):
stand in a place of, if there isanything that is going to be
worthful for this particularchild, it will emerge from my
willingness to evaluate, tointerrogate, and ultimately to
change my adult behavior.
That I'm not gonna wait till weget the right children to show
up before I step into action.
And we're not gonna wait till weget the right parents or the
(18:10):
right system.
But I'm gonna constantly lookingat what is it in my behavior
that could be a cause for thischild not having what they
deserve.
And inside of thatacknowledgement, what is the
next step that I can be takingto be of service to this child?
It is a willful disobedience tothe idea of casting blame
(18:32):
anywhere else.
Uh, and, and instead saying thatI'm going to be personally
responsible for the welfare ofthe children in my community,
um, so much so that I'm, thatI'm not going to look to share
that responsibility, you know,with anyone else.
I'm not gonna be looking toblame the, um, the failure of
our children having their needsmet on anyone else.
So that's, that's the concept.
(18:53):
And, and what I found is thatwhen a system, uh, when a team
of adults choose to stand inthis place, cause I'm not
suggesting to you this is sometruth or something, I'm, I'm
saying this is a place to standinside of which we're more
empowered to get results forchildren.
That if I'm, that, if I'mcomfortable looking for excuses,
if I'm comfortable looking forsomeone else to blame, there
(19:16):
will always be the occasion toblame.
There will always be somerational excuse for why children
didn't do what they needed.
And to the extent that I'mwilling to accept that children
will suffer.
But, but if I am, if I amwillfully disobedient to my ego
need, and instead say, you knowwhat?
I am personally responsible forcreating the context of
(19:37):
greatness for the children of mycommunity, and that if there's
not greatness for them rightnow, that the lack thereof is a
demonstration of my behavior,and, and that as I change my
behavior, that I can actuallyhave an impact on what's
possible for those children.
That when organizations chooseto stand in that place and
(19:58):
choose to operate from thatplace, the great things, uh, are
more likely to happen forchildren.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah.
I, I mean I, obviously it's, Ithink that's a, a mindset and a
framework that probably appliesto all different, you know,
areas of life for individuals oflike looking at like, look,
what, what can I control?
It's what I'm capable ofcontrolling.
It's what I can takeresponsibility of.
It's what I can that's right.
Be responsible for, and then gomake an impact with what I can
(20:26):
do.
And if everybody kind of doesthat in whatever, you know,
environment or arena we're in,I, I love that approach to, you
know, engaging with life.
Do you find when you're, youknow, consulting with districts,
and I say consulting cuz I, Ibelieve that you interact a with
a lot of different public schoolsystems.
I know that you do more, workmore closely with some than
(20:48):
others, but do you find thatmindset is prevalent?
Like that mindset of, you know,I, I see a lot of headlines
around, you know, how difficultit is to be a teacher nowadays
and the challenges of being inthe classroom with the number of
students and the differentconstraints.
And so I, you know, to, to playthe other side of that card, do
you hear a lot of like, wellthat's, you know, that's great
(21:10):
for you to say AJ about takingresponsibility, but it's a lot
easier said than done cuz theenvironment has changed it.
Would you say that, is that afair, accurate representation of
how a lot of teachers feel?
Or is, is that an unfairassessment that we see in the
media and do you find a lot ofpublic educators that embrace
that kind of approach that youjust described?
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Yeah, one of the things in my, in a previous job,
I worked at the state educationagency in Texas, and part of my
role there was to support ourschool improvement team.
And so the school improvementteam at the state agency is
really responsible for reachingout to and working with the
(21:54):
lowest performing 5% of schoolsacross the state.
Um, in Texas it's like 400schools.
I mean, it's a big state.
There's a lot of schools.
And so the lowest performing 4%is still a huge number.
And so in this role, I, uh, myteam and I, we'd go out and we'd
visit some of these schools,even visiting the lowest
(22:15):
performing 5% of schools acrossthe state.
I can't recall a single time Iever walked into a school and
saw a lazy teacher who just waskicked up their feet and wasn't
trying, or, uh, I can't recall asingle time or ever saw a
teacher who, you know, they justdidn't care if kids learned or
not.
(22:35):
Like, I'm just here for apaycheck.
Like I, you would think ifthere's any place I'm gonna see
it, I'd see it in the lowestperforming 5% of schools across
the country.
Yeah, across the state.
Never saw it.
What I saw without exception waspeople working hard, people
putting in the best effort thatthey knew how people putting it
all on the field, doingeverything that they could in
(22:57):
the service of the children intheir classroom.
Uh, now that didn't change thefact that clearly something
wasn't working, but what was atplay wasn't that there weren't
people who were already willing,uh, to be, uh, the genesis of
transformation.
The students, like really theywere just supports that they
(23:17):
didn't have that they, like, youcould row as hard as you want,
but if the person on the otherside of the canoe is rowing in
the exact opposite direction,uh, then you're probably not
gonna go anywhere.
And if the person in the frontof the canoe is rowing off in a
different direction, and sothere are things like alignment
that matter.
And so, you know, the firstgrade teachers go in that
direction, the second gradeteachers go in that direction,
(23:38):
third grade teachers, then allthree of them can be working as
hard as they possibly can, butit's still not amount to the
impact that they intend.
Those are the type of issues I'drun across is people engaged in
mis unintentionally misalignedbehavior.
But no, this idea that there arethese and teachers who are
hostile to the possibility forchildren, I've, I've not met
(24:00):
that teacher anywhere.
And so this idea that people arewilling to be personally
accountable for what's workingnow, working with children, that
seems to be fairly constant.
It's inside of that.
And really reflecting on thatand living into that and trying
to identify, okay, what is itthat I specifically could be
doing differently, uh, the thechanging of which would really
(24:25):
accrue to the benefit ofchildren.
And, and I find peopleconstantly struggling with that.
Like, I just don't know what isthe change I need to make that
would have the biggestdifference.
But that's where I see peopleliving the most is what is the
thing that is most needed andnot knowing what that is and not
knowing, does that sit overthere with you?
Does that sit over here with me?
But my experience has veryconsistently been that inviting
(24:49):
people into that conversationwith teachers all over the
state, all over the country,that folks are eager to be in
that conversation.
And then what they're hungry foris, okay, then what is the
specific thing I need to do?
What is the next step?
And then the next is across thecountry.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah.
That's an encouraging narrativeand story and a perspective that
I think is, is valuable that,you know, we've got really
talented, passionate educators,you know, across the spectrum,
you know, zero to, you know,they, when students graduate,
they just need resources andeducation and support.
And it's not a, an issue of arethey passionate and wanting the
(25:32):
best outcomes for students.
So I personally, I love to hearthat that's what individuals who
have boots on the ground areseeing in our public schools
specifically.
Just maybe to, to talk back to EC E and what, when we talk about
early, you know, childhoodeducation prior to that
kindergarten phase mm-hmm.
(25:52):
districts, when you're, whenyou're talking about, hey, when
a student enrolls inkindergarten, the minimum
benchmarks that we're lookingfor that student to be able to
have.
Like, is there, is there a rolethat curriculum plays both when
parents are leading theeducation at home, but also, you
know, in in early childhoodprograms and in preschool
(26:12):
settings, is are there certaineducational benchmarks that
you're looking for at thatkindergarten level?
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Yes.
And this ver tends to vary bystate.
There are a lot of differentstates will have a kindergarten
screener that is offered by thestate agency or that is fairly
commonly used across the stateas a way of evaluating where
children when they're cominginto kindergarten and how do we
need to adapt the kindergartenexperience to match them.
If, if I had to make a, a callto action for your listeners,
(26:44):
it'd be what are ways that ourearly childhood providers are
partnering with the schoolsystem to really study what is
it that students need to come tokindergarten successful with,
and how do we back map that intothe pre-kindergarten experience
(27:06):
such that children have thegreatest chance of being
successful.
Often I find this is just analignment issue that people just
aren't talking to people likeoften.
It is really that simple, what Iwould call on, uh, on your
listeners to consider, talk withyour local school district,
figure out when is theprofessional development for
kindergarten teachers and canour staff, you know, join for
(27:29):
free?
Like, uh, can we come in andparticipate with your
kindergarten, first gradeteachers and professional
development so that we canunderstand what you all are
doing and we can try to figureout what adjustments do we need
to make as community providersto try to make sure that we're
in sync in a way that's in thebest interest of our students.
Uh, it's a, it's an extraeffort.
I'll, I'll be the first toacknowledge it's an extra
(27:50):
effort, but it's not an effortthat's designed to benefit me.
It's designed a bit for mychildren.
And I think that's somethingthat, you know, all of our
community providers will getbehind that I, that I'm willing
to put in an extra effort,willing to take that extra step,
uh, if the district is willingto be a partner with it, uh, in
the benefit of our children.
I'd also be looking at alignmentof instructional materials and
(28:12):
visiting with the curriculuminstruction, uh, team at the
school or at or at the, or atthe school system to talk about
what are the materials you allare using and is there any way
that we could have access tothose materials.
A lot of school systems arealready operating their own
pre-K programs themselves, whichmeans they have their own pre-k,
(28:32):
um, um, instructional materials,their own pre-K assessment
instruments and all these sortof things.
Are there ways that they'd bewilling to partner with
community providers to getaccess to those so that the
community provider in the schooldistrict can be working from the
same, uh, playbook, singing fromthe same hymnal?
Again, not because that's greatfor the provider or for the
(28:52):
school system, but because thatwould be great for children.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah.
Because then they're gonna havea natural progression from that,
you know, preschool or thatenrichment environment in the
care and garden, which, youknow, I would imagine maybe
there's studies on this, but Iwould imagine if a student has a
seamless, you know, transitionfrom an education standpoint, it
helps with all the other, youknow, the social factors and
their, you know, adoption of,um, you know, making friends
(29:18):
and, and you know, emotionalwellbeing and, and those types
of things.
I don't know if there's studieson that, but it seems like if
there's public school systemspartnering with their e c e
providers, like you said, totruly focus on what's best for
the students in our community,that that type of partnership
would play a big role in that.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, honestly, I can't think of studying
specifically about thetransition from pre-K to
kindergarten though.
I'd be surprised if one doesn'texist.
I have read studies that talkabout the transition from
elementary to middle or frommiddle to high.
And what sometimes comes out inthose is this assertion that
where you see children struggle,um, in those transition years is
(30:01):
when there are significantshifts in expectations, uh,
significant shifts in norms, uh,that the students, um, aren't
prepared for the offered anappropriate amount of
scaffolding for.
And so they need to kind ofthrowing children into a new
environment without adequatepreparation and, and just not
working out for them.
(30:21):
And, and so if that's true inthose transition grades, I don't
see any reason why that wouldn'talso likely be true, um, in the,
uh, pre-k to kindergartentransition as well.
Um, such that a strongcollaboration between providers
could actually make a realdifference for children.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, I would think so too.
And I, you know, from yourcomment earlier and, and some of
what you've seen, you know,across all the work that you're
doing, you know, the idea oftrying to have to play catch up,
it seems like such a difficultchallenge with students.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
It's not a good plan.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah, it's not a good plan.
So the earlier you can be infront of just getting that child
in the right system with theright support, all the right
resources to start from day one,like you said, even before that
child's born, we're supportingthat child's development and
education that that environmentfosters the greatest chance of
(31:17):
success for the greatest numberof students it sounds like, as
opposed to playing catch up.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
So certainly.
Well, and, and I'm gonna run therisk of insulting, I don't know
if this will be insulting to youor any of your listeners, but,
uh, I, I wanna draw adistinction, um, that the
evidence I'm looking at does notsuggest that the same benefits
are conferred by daycare as theyare by, uh, early childhood
education.
You know, um, I realize I'mbeing a little bit flippant
here, but you know, five kids ina play pen at Grandma's house
(31:43):
while she watches these days ofour lives, is not the same thing
as actually having a, uh,authentic early childhood
education, uh, experience, uh,that, um, is benefited by and
led by, uh, professionals whohave training in early childhood
education development.
We, we have an understandingthat the neurological
development taking place and azero to five space is very
(32:05):
different.
And what is developmentallyappropriate for that grade age
span is very different than whatwould be appropriate for
kindergarten first.
And I, I could point to plentyof school district who said, oh,
well pre-K, that's just, uh,we'll just put some kindergarten
teachers there and it's the samething, right?
It's in fact not the same thing.
It's like saying kindergarten'sthe same thing, you know, is
eighth grade.
Like, it's just, it'sfundamentally a different thing
(32:28):
requires different skillset,different tool set, um, and
different preparation.
And so to have a truly effectiveearly childhood education
program, we need professionalswho have actually been trained.
Um, and what are the needs ofchildren at those age groups
and, and how are we making surethat those needs are being
honored in the program designthat they're receiving?
(32:49):
Uh, daycare and early childhoodeducation are not the same thing
.
And I realize that's gonna beinsulting some, some folks, but
the evidence on this seems to bepretty clear.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah.
I'm glad you brought up thattopic cuz I think, you know, I
think in our industry, and whenI, again, I, when I refer to our
industry, you know, the e c espace, you know, we have seen a
major shift over the past, youknow, couple of decades from the
idea of, look, it really doesn'tmatter, as long as the child is
alive from zero to five, oncethey get to kindergarten, it'll
all work out fine.
(33:19):
But I think we've seen thisshift that those early years are
extremely,
Speaker 3 (33:24):
They matter,
Speaker 2 (33:25):
They matter, they matter.
And maybe more so arguably thana lot of the other stages
throughout a child's developmentin terms of how the brain
develops during that, you know,zero to five.
And so with that in mind, yourpoint about, you know, offending
some, I think your sentimentresonates with our audience that
there is a responsibility and adesire from, you know, our
(33:48):
community to be educators topartner and to get these
students on the right track andready for that, you know, that
kindergarten experience forsure.
I like that.
What, how did you get, uh, I'mcurious, I, you usually, I would
ask this at the beginning, butyou know, kind of rewinding your
story a little bit and the workyou're doing now, aj I, if I
read correctly, the first timethat I saw that you were in
(34:12):
public service was in KansasCity as part of the school
board.
Was there something that, likewhat was the, the, the seed of
that for you?
Uh, uh, something you've alwaysbeen passionate about in terms
of education?
Was it your own personalexperience or something that led
you to kind of like dedicateyour energy into these causes?
Speaker 3 (34:30):
So certainly there's, uh, I think all of us are in
some way inspired by our ownpersonal narrative, own personal
story.
I certainly had tremendousblessings from some of my public
school teachers who just steppedup for me in ways that I was not
even cognizant of how hard theywere going to bat for me at the
time that I've only learned inrecent years from reaching back
(34:53):
out to them.
Uh, in fact, um,
to the book, I tell a storyabout two of my teachers who,
um, just really stood up for meand, and didn't take crap off of
me
gonna make it happen.
And this whole surly attitudeyou have, we're not accepting
(35:15):
that, um, you're going to be,you are capable of more and
you're gonna be more.
And so these two teachers, theypushed for that even while other
teachers were duped into, uh,believing me what I pretended
that I was not capable anddidn't want to engage and didn't
wanna learn, uh, that I tell astory of two teachers who could
not be fooled.
Um, and one of my favorite,favorite moments as I was
(35:38):
writing the book is I actuallyreached out to, reached out to
them and one of them lives inPhoenix now, actually flew to
Phoenix, um, to meet with her.
Um, and it's like, Hey, I don'tknow if you remember who I am.
She's like, oh, I rememberexactly who you are and I've
followed you, uh, ever since,you know, high school and you
(35:58):
know, um, when you startedbusinesses and when you got into
education and you know, all thethings you're doing.
I've followed you when you wentto Texas and you know, I'm just
so proud of all you'veaccomplished.
And I'm like, over here like,yeah, I'm all choke it up.
It's like, it's, it's thepollens, the pollen.
Um, you know, but like, shepoured into me and, and she told
me stories that day that I hadno idea some of the, the links
(36:21):
that her and some of the otherteachers went to to try to make
sure that I got, uh, theeducation that I needed in order
to be able to have thisconversation with you today.
Um, and so certainly, you know,when it comes to, you know, why
I do this work, uh, certainly asignificant portion of that is
caught up in, I've just beenrichly blessed, richly blessed
(36:43):
beyond all belief, beyond alldeserving.
And the manifestation of thatblessing, uh, very often was
with the hands of teachers.
Um, and so what, having thisdeep seated desire for other
children to experience the sameblessings that I experienced is,
is certainly a significant partof it.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Do you remember going back to those teachers that you
just referenced for yourselfpersonally, like at that time in
your life where they wereholding you accountable and
calling you your attitude out,they saw potential and they saw
what you were capable of.
Do you remember actuallyrecognizing that at the time?
Like, oh, wow, like I'mattracted to that in these
(37:26):
teachers that they're not takingmy act?
Or was it later in life as youreflected back that you, you saw
that?
I'm just curious, like ifstudents generally recognize
that.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
No, I, I think my story is very much caught up in,
um, a common story that manypeople share and that there's
that teacher who you don't careanything about their subject
going into the class, but thenafter being around them, the
kind of the enthusiasm theybring to it, the sense of
(38:00):
connection and investment thatthey show in you, all of a
sudden now you care about atopic that you never cared about
before.
Yeah.
Um, you know, you know, Mr.
Deth, my senior year, um,teaching history and
anthropology and was the, um,facilitator for the chess club,
three things that I prior tothat was like, I don't care
(38:22):
about history, anthropology,your chest wound up being on the
chess team.
Um, but that's because, you know, his investment in me, his
caring, his expression of lovefor me and his expression of
love for his content areas gotme excited about it.
Um, you know, you know, Mrs.
Murray, the economics teacher, Ihad no interest in economics and
(38:43):
it thought it would be an easy,you, uh, uh, easy elective.
Um, but her passion foreconomics, her passion for
business, you know, the micromesa and macro economics, um,
got me excited and herinvestment in me and her
unwillingness to see anythingother than greatness in me and
got me to, you know, getinvolved with, um, the, uh,
(39:06):
junior achievement, um, programand, uh, win the regional small
business competition, you know,for high schoolers that year.
Uh, but this is, this, this wasnot a whole lot about who I was,
how I showed up, and what myinterests were.
This is about the love anddedication that they had both
(39:26):
for their content area and forme as a kind of attitudinal,
surly student in their class.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah.
And I can see how some of thathas shaped, you know, your p
philosophy, guiding philosophiesand what you do now or just
around Yeah.
You know, taking accountability,meaning you might see a student
who's acting out or shows thatthey're disinterested or, but
you don't know that child'sstory.
You don't know what they'recapable of, and you actually
just own what you can control,which is love on that student,
(39:56):
invest in them and trust thatthat's gonna produce the best
outcomes.
And so you see it happen.
Were they, were those teacherssurprised?
Like that teacher in Phoenix,just last question on that
topic, was she surprised to hearfrom you that the impact that it
it had on you?
Was she not surprised?
Was that a common theme for her?
(40:17):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (40:18):
You know, I, you know, I don't know that I fully
asked that.
I do know that I'm gonna be inPhoenix soon and I plan to, uh,
grab a bite to eat with heragain, I'm gonna add that to my
list of things, you know, toask.
Cause I didn't really, I think Iwas so caught up in the emotion
of the moment learning about theway that she stood in the gap
for me, that I didn't even getaround to asking how commonplace
was this in her experience?
(40:39):
You know, how often was this theneed that she was finding
herself, having to step intothat.
Um, I, I'm certainly curiousabout that now.
And so, you know, when I, when Ireconnect with her again, when
I'm back in town, um, uh, that'sdefinitely gonna be on the
conversation,
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Ask that question.
And I think it's a good, youknow, to have the perspective,
you know, obviously on a showlike this, to, to hear a story
like that, you know, so much ofour audience, aj, our teachers
and educators and, and just,it's just a great reminder.
Cause I think teachers andeducators need that.
Like, you are making adifference and they're students
every day that you have theability to impact and you just
(41:15):
don't know what they're gonna goon
Speaker 3 (41:16):
To do out.
They're planting seeds and theydon't know what the or is gonna
look like 10, 20, 30, 40 yearsfrom now, but they, but they,
but they're expert, expert seedsowers.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
That's a great way to say it.
And then you reference, I knowwe're, we're kind of running
short on time here, but I wannagive you an opportunity.
You referenced the, a book thatyou wrote recently, and I, and I
always try to give our, you know, um, you know, our guests, the
ability to share how, how canour audience find you, like for
people in districts across thecountry who maybe are interested
in the work you're doing andsome of the thoughts you've
(41:46):
shared, you reference to books,so maybe you could plug that,
but also how can our audiencefind you if they're interested
in learning more about whatyou're doing?
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Yeah.
In addition to working withindividual schools.
Um, and then in addition tobeing an advocate for education
policies that I believe can makea difference, like early
childhood education policies,um, I also work with school
boards and really challengingthem as the local policymaker to
lean into these type ofstrategies.
And so I finally got around to,after doing a lot of coaching on
(42:16):
it, finding a book on it.
And the book is called Great ontheir Behalf, you know, why
school boards fail and How Yourscan become effective.
And, and it really, um, is thebook that I wish, um, that
somebody had written that I hadaccess to.
Um, ideally I'd hope that yourreaders would, uh, that your
listeners would consider that ifthey really have a heart, uh,
(42:38):
for children and they reallywanna see great things for the
children in their community,consider running for your local
school board.
Um, and that the intention ofthis book is to help prepare you
with the knowledge, skills, andmindset necessary, uh, to be
effective on behalf of thestudents you serve.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Excellent.
And it's, if I'm not mistaken,your website too.
I know there's some content onthere, but, um, is it ajc
seven.com?
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Uh, yeah, people just go to aj cra.com.
Um, it gets you there.
If you wanna learn more aboutthe book, go behalf com.
Um, but to connect with mepersonally or to see some of the
things that, uh, I'm doing inthe space, yeah, just go to aj
cra.com.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Excellent.
Aj, we, uh, we really appreciateyou carving out an hour of your
time to spend with us.
I think it was, uh, aninsightful conversation.
Exciting to hear the work that'shappening and we'll track along
and we'll follow the work thatyou're doing, maybe vice versa,
and maybe there'll be a part twoat some point in the future.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Well, I'm just grateful for you making time for
me and just keep doing the greatwork you're doing.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Thank you, aj.
Have a great day.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Thank you for listening to this episode of the
Childcare Business Podcast.
To get more insights on ways tosucceed in your childcare
business, make sure to hitsubscribe in your podcast app so
you never miss an episode.
And if you want even morechildcare, business tips,
tricks, and strategies, headover to our resource
center@procaresoftware.com.
(44:07):
Until next time,
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