Running a successful childcare business requires more than just a passion for children—it demands business acumen, adaptability, and sometimes making tough decisions. Cindy Lenhoff, Director of the National Child Care Association, brings four decades of industry expertise to this eye-opening conversation about navigating economic cycles in the childcare sector.
Drawing from her journey from accidental preschool teacher to vice president of the second-largest childcare company in America, Cindy shares invaluable wisdom on sustainability during economic downturns. The post-COVID era has left many newer owners unprepared for normal market conditions after years of government assistance. Now, childcare entrepreneurs must learn to pivot strategically as their communities and enrollment patterns change.
One of the most powerful insights revealed is the importance of collaboration over competition. Rather than viewing neighboring centers as rivals, successful owners create intentional partnerships that benefit all—referring families to programs that better match their needs while focusing on their own strengths. As Cindy explains, negative incidents at any childcare center affect public perception of the entire industry, making cooperation essential.
The conversation tackles challenging topics like enforcing payment policies, discontinuing unprofitable programs, and learning to say "no" when necessary. Both speakers acknowledge that while these decisions aren't easy, especially for heart-centered educators, they're essential for long-term viability. "People pleasing is not going to get you to be one of that 9% of childcare programs that can survive beyond 10 years," warns Evelyn.
Whether you're considering food programs for financial stability, creating innovative services like hybrid "mommy and me" classes to address parental concerns, or simply trying to balance your educators' heart with a business owner's mind, this episode delivers practical strategies for thriving through any economic climate. Connect with Cindy and the National Child Care Association to discover additional resources for your childcare business journey.
You can contact Cindy here:
linkedin.com/in/cindy-lehnhoff-14175715
Website: nccanet.org/
Email
cklehnhoff@gmail.com
Don't miss out on the Child Care Business Summit 2025:
https://childcarebusinessprofessional...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello everybody.
Thank you so much again forgiving me your time Today.
I'm excited I have a prettycool guest on the Child Care
Business Coach podcast.
I have Cindy Lenhoff, theDirector of the National Child
Care Association, and Cindy ishere.
We've been having a lot ofamazing discussions behind the
(00:22):
scenes talking leading up tothis podcast episode and there's
so much that she is passionateabout, just like me, and we're
getting ready to just do somethings together and work because
we both have a major passionfor this industry and I think we
are aligned very much on ourphilosophies on where our
industry is going, where thecurrent climate is taking us.
(00:47):
But, Cindy, I will let youintroduce yourself and then
we'll get into the conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, thank you so much, Evelyn, for having me.
I have thoroughly enjoyed ourconversations.
We are equally passionate aboutserving families, working
families in our communities, andit is one of the hardest jobs.
Whether you're the educator,the owner, the director, the
(01:15):
cook, it's one of the hardestjobs.
So we have to make sure thatthere are individuals out there,
and I believe you aredefinitely one that tries to
hold up in admiration theindividuals that are on the
ground every day.
And I had the opportunity toaccidentally become part of the
(01:40):
child care community In 1980, Ibecame a three-hour-a-day
preschool teacher for a largecompany.
I did it mainly because my childwas three.
Well, one of my children wasthree my daughter and I wanted
her to go to preschool.
We were in a new town and I sawthis sign that said they were
(02:01):
opening this new preschool,which was a childcare center as
well.
That said they were openingthis new preschool, which was a
child care center as well,montessori based and I went in
to see about enrolling her and Igot recruited.
Oh, wow.
And the interesting thing aboutthe recruitment was back in
1980, there were no earlychildhood degrees or CDAs, and I
(02:22):
guess I ask a lot of goodquestions as a parent and the
director asked me if I'd everworked with children and I said
well, I teach Sunday school agesthree to five.
And that was like.
It was like saying I have adegree, 10 years experience in
today's world.
So she said have you everthought about working in
childcare?
Well, I went to work and Istayed for 36 years.
It was a company that wasgrowing.
(02:45):
It was a small, family-ownedcompany.
They grew to be the secondlargest child care company.
They're still in business.
However, they moved over andthey're part of another company
and I had the opportunity togrow with them.
I was a director, I was a cook,I was a van driver back in the
day when we had vans.
I was a cook, I was a vandriver back in the day when we
(03:05):
had vans.
I became a district manager, adivisional director and
eventually I became a vicepresident and I retired from
that position in 2016.
And, needless to say, I learneda lot.
There wasn't a lot of trainingback then, but the company I
(03:26):
worked for as training andconcepts and developmentally
appropriateness and brainresearch, you know began to
become available and knowingthey did a great job training us
on all of those things.
But I tell you what you stilllearn a lot from just being in
(03:47):
the schools, the centers, theclassrooms, talking to again the
boots on the ground.
So I have had the opportunity inmy career to accredit schools
that I was overseeing as amulti-site manager in 12
different states.
So that became a passion and asa result, somewhere along the
(04:09):
line I was asked to be a boardmember for the National Early
Childhood Program accreditation.
When I retired, thatorganization had acquired the
National Child Care Associationthat had actually lost its way
and they asked me to be thedirector of that organization
for six months till they couldfind someone.
(04:32):
And I'm in my sixth year andI'm so happy that they have
allowed me to stay.
And my greatest joy is actuallybeing able to talk to people in
the field to find out what isit that you love about your job
and what do you need to do to tokeep it and stay in it and do
(04:54):
what you love.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yes, absolutely that.
That, yeah, that is a greatpassion and I love so much of
what you guys do and I know I'mI'm really excited that we're
going to start aligning.
I know when I first reached outto you, it was for a lot of
reasons.
I'm seeing a lot of differentstates that I work with that are
, honestly, the private childcare is in trouble and I think
(05:18):
we're very aligned on that andthere's other associations out
there that really aren't asbusiness friendly as they used
to be, which is why I do likealigning with you guys instead
and why I reached out to you.
But behind the scenes, before westarted recording, we were
talking about what are we goingto talk about?
Right, and I said, well, it'dbe nice to have a conversation.
(05:41):
We don't want to be political,but we kind of are a little bit,
but not really right, becauseone of the things we were
talking about is that theeconomy, everything we face in
childcare and what we need toadvocate right now.
It happens in cycles and Ithink in our current climate,
what we're seeing is so manypeople looking to the government
(06:05):
for answers, for help, right,and no matter what
administration is in power, itreally doesn't.
I mean, it kind of changes alittle, but it really doesn't.
So I know, for me, a lot of myclients and people who are
reaching out to me right now arenewer owners who weren't around
during, like pre-COVID, right,and so this industry has been,
(06:31):
honestly, pretty easy post-COVID, because there was so much
money thrown at us, all of theARP grants and all the things
coming.
It was kind of easy, and nowwe're back to like 2017 through
2019 type of culture in earlychildhood education in the
private sector, so we're seeinga lot of really scared owners.
(06:55):
So, before we got on, though,you were saying a little bit
about how the economy goes incycles.
This is normal.
These are normal cycles and inECE, as private centers, we
really need to learn how to gothrough these cycles.
So what do you have?
What is your take on that?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Well, in the 36 years that I was in the business and
of the 36 years I was, for 32 ofthose, a multi-site manager and
I was throughout my career.
I shifted and had supervisoryduties over the operation and
the financial outcomes in 12different states, and economies
(07:42):
sometimes are very geographical.
I mean it could be flourishingin one part of the country and
not in another.
Right now we're kind of in atime where it's not flourishing
anywhere.
But at the same time, if youlive long enough, you see the
ebb and flow of the economy andyou have to learn what to do
(08:03):
when the economy is high andyou're bringing in the money and
you have to learn what to dowhen it's not.
And one of the things that I'venoted in my career not only
with the people that I've workedwith and supported, but also
being parts of childcareassociations in different states
and being a part of a group ofbusiness owners you know is that
(08:27):
a lot of times child careadministrators are actually not
child care administrators.
They love child care, they wereteachers, they have gotten, you
know, a degree or education inthis field and that's exactly
what licensing everywhererequires.
(08:47):
But they don't require thebusiness side.
And if you don't educateyourself on the business side
prior to entering the industry,you're going to struggle because
, no matter what you did before,it's different If you owned a
coffee shop and now you're goingto struggle because, no matter
what you did before, it'sdifferent.
If you owned a coffee shop andnow you're in child care, it's
(09:09):
different.
You know we have regulationsthat we have to stand by and
those regulations protectchildren.
And you know there's noindustry that uses the kind of
labor that we do.
But that labor is necessary,you can't avoid it.
So it's a different businessmodel.
So there can be no waste Right?
(09:31):
So I would say to people youhave to look at educating
yourself on how to manage thebusiness side of the business
and then you can determinewhether or not that's something
you're capable of or even wantto do, because we'll be out of
(09:51):
business really quick.
And also, a lot of times peopleavoid change and what I've noted
when the economy shifts,sometimes you have to look at
different ways to do business.
Sometimes you can raise yourrates and it doesn't, and you
can build your revenue that way,and other times you have to
(10:12):
build it by enrollment.
And then there are other timeswhere you have to look at other
programs, such as you know.
I know that there are providersthat don't always want to take
a child that is subsidized.
But neighborhoods change andwhen the economy changes,
sometimes people go back to workor lose jobs and they go back
(10:36):
to school.
And now I qualify for subsidyand you're in a neighborhood
where maybe that's what'shappened and you might want to
consider that.
And then there's also the foodprogram.
I can't tell you how manypeople that I have been
acquainted with that have triedto avoid the food program and it
(10:58):
really is a wonderful programfor children and it saves most
businesses 5% to 6% to be ableto utilize somewhere else,
whether it's teacher salaries oryou know, supply needed
supplies, and again we have tobe willing to make those shifts
(11:20):
to keep our businesses strong.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Oh, I so agree.
Earlier today I was having aconversation with some high
level owners and that was one ofthe big things we were
discussing is that you have tobe willing to pivot and you have
to watch the market.
So one of the things I'm goingthrough, for example, is I've
been running a before and afterschool program in my area for 18
(11:45):
years, but this year, for thefirst time, I'm losing a
substantial amount of money onit.
I can't break even.
So now, for the first time in18 years, I have to look at
dropping that program andreplacing it with something
different.
As an owner, I have to be readyto pivot, and it does take
sustainability, and I know for alot of leaders and one of the
(12:09):
leaders that we were counselingtoday it's hard, because the
other part of us being teachersand loving children and then
going into these administrativejobs the other part of that is,
our hearts are a little bitdifferent.
Right, we don't always havethat heart for business and it
(12:30):
isn't easy to make these toughdecisions on.
Okay, I'm going to have to dropmy before and after school
program.
Some of these children havebeen with me for six and seven
and eight years, right, but Ialso have to take into
consideration what is it costing?
Where could that money be going?
How is it really affecting mybusiness?
(12:52):
And you have to be able to makethose hard decisions and I think
it's very important for us toacknowledge that they aren't
easy.
We don't like making them, butyou get to a point in business
where you realize I have topivot right now, otherwise we
have a choice.
We don't like making them, butyou get to a point in business
where you realize I have topivot right now, otherwise we
have a choice we get to beBlockbuster or we get to be
Netflix, and part of the reasonBlockbuster is no longer a
(13:13):
household name is because theydidn't pivot when it was time to
pivot.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Right.
Yeah that is so true.
I can remember I had gotten toa point with some of my centers
that I was overseeing that werebecoming way too full of school
age children, leaving little orno space for younger children.
(13:39):
Because, as you said, thesechildren go grow up with you.
Because, as you said, thesechildren go grow up with you.
And you know, I was licensed inmost of my schools in this
particular time period for ahundred and as the kids grew up
or they maybe joined us, youknow, because we had a lot of
good, you know word of mouth,you know which is what you want,
(14:01):
that's what it's called word ofmouth mouth we had to back down
and say we are, instead oftaking children through age 12,
we are going to take themthrough the fourth grade.
And we use grade versus agebecause, you know, sometimes a
fourth grader is nine andsometimes they're 10.
(14:24):
And that you know there werepeople that were, you know,
really upset by that.
But we would have potentiallyput ourselves out of business
because we weren't able to.
It wouldn't mean our building's, you know, half empty all day
and we can't do that.
So you know, again, we use ourheart and our head.
It has to balance.
(14:45):
I always told those that I werecoaching and mentoring and
supporting is that it's a scaleand on one side you have your
head and on one side you haveyour heart, and it can never do
this.
It can never do that.
It's got to stay even.
But in those scenarios weactually, you know, reached out
(15:06):
and because we were's a lot ofpeople doing good things and
they may be able to teach yousomething.
Or, in this case, we knew whowas doing good things because we
(15:28):
were part of the child careassociations and the director
organizations and we knew thatthere were some centers that
could take.
You know that we could say to aparent check out this school.
Yes, you know, miss Jane is awonderful person.
I you know.
See her at our monthly meetings.
I but, of course, use your ownjudgment, but you know she's
(15:54):
only a mile from here.
She services the school you goto, and that was, you know, what
I would tell you to do firstand see what you think and let
me know.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, I agree on that so much.
One of my big things is thecollaboration over competition
and in our industry it's prettybrutal when it comes to
competition where a lot of timesit's almost like centers are
pitted against each other.
And and I have to just sayhonestly, when you really start
(16:20):
learning and building yourbusiness acumen, you start to
realize that one of the moststrategic business moves you can
make is to be collaborative.
And the most successfulcompanies in the world like
McDonald's and Taco Bell, theyactually collaborate.
It's collaboration overcompetition is so much more
profitable.
(16:42):
And to what you were saying,sometimes, like for me, I'm
dropping my before and afterschool program Now my
collaborator down the street.
Her before and after schoolprogram may be thriving, so she
may take that on, but drop herinfants where I will take the
infants.
So when you are incommunication and collaboration
(17:02):
you can actually create theseintentional collaborations and
really enhance each other'sbusiness.
The other thing on that, Ithink it's important for us to
remember that this is about thechildren, it's not about us, and
every family is going to have adifferent need and I realize
fully my program is not best forevery family.
(17:23):
Some people are better off in adifferent philosophical child
care program that is morealigned with their family values
.
Right, and some children arebetter in home providers because
my center is large and it mightbe overwhelming for them.
So I love that you brought upthe collaborations and joining
(17:43):
these associations and reallyforming alliances and stop
looking at yourself as acompetitor but instead start
seeing your fellow child carecenters as collaborators.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
One of the things that I, you know, used to bring
up to any of the teams that Ihad the opportunity to support
over the 30, you know, almost 40years, is the fact that, when a
child care center is on thenews, you know something that
has occurred that nobody wantedto see happen leaving a child in
(18:19):
a box or something of thatnature.
I said most people only hear thewords child care.
They don't even hear the nameor the brand and they suddenly
put us all together.
So if we work together andsupport each other, I think we
would have less situations likethat, because sometimes it's a
(18:41):
conversation when you're, youknow, when you're meeting or
together to say, oh, so tell me,what is everybody doing for the
summer?
What are you doing to?
You know, make sure your staffis, you know, fully trained on,
you know what they need to knowto keep children safe on field
(19:01):
trips and from the sun.
I work for a large company andwe had a lot of tools and we had
a lot of collaboration and thecenters I managed were close
together, but it still didn'tmean that somebody in the
community because an owner,operator in the community was
focused on that community.
(19:22):
And I may be in severalcommunities and I want to know
what works best here.
I've been in militarycommunities.
You know that you're going tobe open earlier and your center
is going to be practically emptyby four or 430 and everything
(19:44):
shifts and I know, when I firststarted doing business in
military towns I had to learnthat I was kind of like well, we
open at 630, we close at six.
This is how we staff thebuilding in the morning and how
we're like.
And then all of a sudden I'm ina community with military and
everything shifts.
So the people that were in thatcommunity doing business, you
(20:08):
know, said oh, this is a littledifferent.
Or when you're in a collegetown, staffing a center in a
college town is different thanstaffing it in a bedroom
community where there's a lot ofstay-at-home moms that need to
work but don't want to leave thecommunity to work.
(20:29):
Again, it's talking to otherpeople and learning and we used
to do what we called competitorvisits and it was a requirement
of the company I worked for andI would go in and you know,
sometimes people were.
I would always be forthrightand say this is who I am and
(20:51):
we're encouraged to get out andvisit with, you know, the people
in our community, ourcompetitors, you know, just to
see how things are going.
And if you're struggling withanything and you know what,
how's business for you?
We're not here to take yourbusiness and we want you to come
.
We want you to come see usbecause in the end, as a
(21:13):
community, we want to do goodwork for children and families.
But I wasn't always receivedreally well because I seemed to
be somebody before my time andit was because it was a
requirement of my job to reportback.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Right, yeah, now that's some really good points.
And kind of, on that, knowingyour community and going back to
the point of pivoting, I thinkboth of them kind of go hand in
hand.
So something we're goingthrough in my community and I
think we're starting to see thisa little bit nationwide.
And in our last conversationyou were saying to me that you
(21:48):
noticed that things start on theWest Coast and kind of move
nationally, and I'm kind ofnoticing that now too.
And one of the things we'reseeing here is this major fear
of institutions, right.
And going back to what you weresaying also about, when people
start, something happens at adaycare or a childcare center
that is bad, and then it's onthe news and it becomes this
(22:12):
collective opinion of daycare,right.
And now this, well, that's kindof what we're going through
right now, where it's thiscollective opinion of.
But it's this collectiveopinion but it's more anything
institutional.
It's like the system is corrupt.
So I just realized, ok, we needto figure something out for this
.
That's what my community isgoing through in this time that
(22:35):
we live in, that we live in.
So basically, I created a newprogram where it's a hybrid of a
mommy and me and a co-op kindof combined, but my marketing is
pretty much well, if you don'ttrust the system, that's okay.
Then come to school with yourchild.
Your child still needs theeducation, they still need the
socialization and I get that youdon't trust the system and I am
(23:00):
open to you being with yourchild to make sure I'm not
indoctrinating your child.
Anything else you can monitor,you can learn with your child,
you can still oversee and yourchild gets everything they need.
So I think it's very importantduring these tough economic
times in order for us to thriveand not just survive.
Look at your community.
(23:21):
What are the gaps, what are theneeds, how can you fill it,
what can you do?
And don't be afraid to pivot.
That is how you're not onlygoing to survive, but you're
going to make it through thesetough times and not have to
really be so stressed out andworried about what is incoming.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Right and worried about what is incoming Right.
I love the idea of what yousaid about the mommy and me and
how you have used it as a way tomake people that maybe aren't
comfortable leaving their child.
That certainly serves a greatpurpose for someone that may
(23:58):
later decide to go back to work,so that's a great idea.
It is a great example ofpivoting.
I know for me there's been acouple of pivots in my career
because sometimes asneighborhoods change and they
age and they become moresecondary and you can buy family
(24:21):
homes for less money becausethey're older Then that your
market has changed, the andmaybe some of your customer base
, you know, is different andmaybe a little lower income,
maybe they're even qualifying,you know, for some kind of
subsidy Right.
(24:48):
And I can remember when I firstintroduced to some directors in
Oklahoma where we had theopportunity to accredit our
schools, which I was excitedabout because I thought, oh gosh
, we're, you know, to benationally accredited and to be
able to recognize the work thatpeople do and what they put into
this you know, every day and toget as good as we possibly can
get for children was exciting,but it was also a way for me to
(25:09):
add some dollars to my revenue.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
That when I couldn't get a rate increase, I could get
extra dollars in a tieredreimbursement program to be able
to help cover raises for myteachers, because accreditation
typically requires, you know,credentialed or degreed teachers
.
And it also and then sometimes,when it sometimes it becomes
(25:37):
necessary to again, you'retaking care of a certain
percentage of children.
They may not even be on subsidy, but their families qualify for
a food program just like theydo in school, and I know I had
to have many a talk withdirectors who were afraid to do
it, but I would give them anoption.
Well, here's what we're goingto do, because your school is
(25:59):
not.
I had schools that sometimeswere barely, you know, surviving
, and it's like we can do one ofthree things.
We can, you know, look atclosing the school, but you have
a lot of children and I betthere's a lot more that could
utilize this wonderful program.
Or we can raise your rate, $20 aweek, or we can get on the food
(26:20):
program.
So if you were to ask yourparents which one of those three
would work for their family atthis time, because the excuse
was always well, they don't wantto fill out the paperwork.
You know they have to fill outa form, yes, yes, what can you
do for the public school?
(26:40):
And I said ask them yeah, youwant to fill out this form and
we won't raise your rate thisyear.
And oh, and, by the way, we'readding free breakfast because
before they were paying.
And the director would say, ohwell, now that you put it that
way.
So sometimes it's teachingourselves to think in a way that
(27:11):
maybe we weren't taught tothink, or that we don't want to
think, and and that's that'swhat we have to do if we want to
be sustainable and be out there, you know, long term, running
or administrating our, our childcare businesses, because we're
needed.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Yeah, I so agree with you what we did in my food
program, because we got the samething.
Parents didn't want to fill outthe paperwork, so I basically
said, ok, I understand you don'twant to put your income
information, that's totally fine.
So if you choose not to, thenwe will be charging you an
additional $25 a week to coverthe cost of food.
And but you're right, I had ahundred percent of the parents
(27:48):
fill it out after you tell them,like I totally respect your
privacy and it's going to costyou $25 a week because that's
basically what it's going tocost me.
So it's kind of funny when yousuddenly change the conversation
a little bit, it does changetheir minds.
The other thing, too, I want topoint out, in a discussion that
(28:09):
came up this morning as I wastalking to those other owners,
one of the things they said well, we had one of the newer owners
and talking with a panel ofseasoned owners that I am
affiliated with, and she justsaid well, when you make these
changes, doesn't it make yourstaff and parents angry?
And the answer is yes,sometimes it does.
(28:31):
There's always going to besomebody not happy.
Yes, it does, and as leaders wehave to make those decisions.
We have to look at the healthof our business, what is best
for the children, what is bestfor our teachers?
And just know that, yes, thereare going to be people who
aren't happy about it, andthat's okay.
You still have to move forwardand make these decisions and
(28:56):
it's not always easy.
Sometimes it is hard for us too, because we want to make
everyone happy.
But people pleasing is notgoing to get you to be one of
that 9% of childcare programsthat can survive beyond 10 years
.
So just know I love to justtouch on the psychology behind
(29:18):
it and the mindset, and justgiving you permission to know
that it's not going to be easyand you, it's okay to do it
anyway.
It's okay not to make everybodyhappy.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Well, yes, because you might be saying yes to
something that that really coulddo not only harm to your
business a business but thebusiness of children.
Yes, I can, you know I can, oh,my goodness I.
I, so many parents in my lifeand times, you know, have wanted
to.
You know, bring quilts fortheir the crib, yeah.
(29:53):
Or they want them to sleep ontheir backs instead of their
their tummies, and saying yes tothose things would do great
harm again to a child.
But then it would back rightinto you losing your business
too.
And we have to be prepared tosay the why.
I think that's the one thingthat you know.
(30:17):
I'm going to tell you the whybehind it.
And if you still disagree, thegood news is you don't have to
choose me to be your provider.
As much as I want to be yourprovider and want to take care
of, you know, your little one, Ican't be talked into something,
(30:38):
you know, that is going to doharm to my business and
especially, potentially, to achild, child, yeah.
And so, again, they havechoices.
They don't.
They can make another choice,Because if you have 100 families
in your center, my goodness,you could be doing things 100
(30:59):
different ways.
I can't even imagine what thatwould be, but I will tell you
that's one of the things that inmy, in my career that you have,
that most, most directors haveto be taught how to say no.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's not easy.
I don't want, like sometimes Ifeel like I can come up here and
say these things and make itseem easy.
So I want you to know that thisis still a struggle for me, to
going through these seasonswhere you have to undo something
you did once before and makethese uncomfortable changes and
(31:39):
and sometimes we don't like it,but we understand that in order
for us to have a sustainablebusiness.
I love what you said earlierabout telling the directors well
, we could close our doors,because sometimes it does come
down to that we could close ourdoors or we can make this change
or we can make this pivot.
So it's just know that it isn'teasy, but we have to do it
(32:02):
anyway.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
We do.
We do because we want tocontinue doing what we love,
what we're good at and what weknow makes a huge difference.
Yeah, and I think that one ofthe things that always comes up
on.
I have a top 10 list of thingsdirectors and owners have to do
if they're going to be long-termsuccessful, and again, one of
(32:25):
them is learning to say no, but,and also learning to collect
your money, because it's reallyhard to have to say I can't
continue without you knowpayment, and once your family is
able to get back on track withpaying us weekly, then we will
(32:49):
welcome you back.
I think it's learning how to saysomething I used to tell people
to don't say policy, it's ourpolicy.
Don't say policy, just say itis what we do here.
You know, whatever the name ofthe center is, this is what we
do and this is why we do it.
Yeah, it might be a regulationand it might be a policy, but
(33:13):
this is what we do and this iswhy we do it.
And, by the way, it's in ourhandbook, and so I don't.
You know we try very hard notto make anything a surprise
Again.
You're still going to havepeople that are unhappy.
You're going to have peoplethat get mad, that cry, and
again it's dealing withdifferent emotions, but trying
(33:35):
to keep yourself in check whileyou're dealing with those yes.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yes, yep, and just know it's not you and it's okay
for them to be angry.
They have that right to beangry and you have a right to
disagree, that's okay.
But standing in your power andjust not allowing your staff or
the parents to steal your powerwhen you're just doing what you
have to do to make your businesssustainable, that is so very
(34:03):
important and it is okay to dothat.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Because the needs of the many will always outweigh
the needs of the few, andcatering to one family if it
jeopardizes, you know, 25 otherfamilies, you know, then, really
, that it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
It's detrimental Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
I would say, too, that directors and
administrators and owners shouldalways have in their back
pocket places that they canreference parents to.
Like you know, most cities andcounties have child care aware
referrals, yes, or carecom, orchild care licensing may be able
(34:45):
to provide a list of licensedchild care homes or you know
something, so that you're givingthem something, information
that can help them make the youknow, to make the move to
something that may work betterfor their family.
I'm all about trying to.
You know, cut ties when thathappens needs to happen in a way
(35:10):
that allows for everybody'sdignity to remain intact and to
give them a little bit ofguidance without holding their
hand or doing it for them.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
I agree 100%.
When we let a family go, we'lldo the same thing.
We'll just help place themsomewhere else first and just
let them know, and sometimes,like with the payment issue, we
have to let them go.
That's okay and we can stillhelp them through it and not
burn a bridge.
So but, cindy, thank you somuch for giving us your time.
I really, really appreciate youand I'm hoping that we get to
(35:42):
hear from you more often.
This has been an awesomeconversation.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Well, and we look forward to having you in the
near future on one of ournational child care podcasts,
and I'm happy to know that theWest Coast is, you know, well
represented with someone doinggreat work for children, and
let's definitely stay in touch.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Definitely, thank you .
Thank you, evelyn, you'rewelcome.
For those of you listening, Iwill put Cindy's contact
information, just moreinformation on where you can
find out more about the NationalChild Care Association.
And, by the way, they are alsoan accrediting body that, cindy,
you do represent.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
So NECPA National Early Childhood Program
Accreditation, and if you everhave any questions about NCCA or
NECPA, please don't hesitate tocontact me.
I am passionate aboutaccrediting centers and making
sure that our child carebusinesses have support and
(36:45):
resources, and that's what we doat NCCA have support and
resources, and that's what we doat NCCA.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Well, thank you so much for that work.
So all of the contactinformation will be in the show
notes.
Thank you everybody.
Thank you everyone Bye-bye,bye-bye.
Hello everybody.
Thank you so much again forgiving me your time Today.
I'm excited I have a prettycool guest on the Child Care
Business Coach podcast.
I have Cindy Lenhoff, theDirector of the National Child
Care Association, and Cindy ishere.
We've been having a lot ofamazing discussions behind the
(00:22):
scenes talking leading up tothis podcast episode and there's
so much that she is passionateabout, just like me, and we're
getting ready to just do somethings together and work because
we both have a major passionfor this industry and I think we
are aligned very much on ourphilosophies on where our
industry is going, where thecurrent climate is taking us.
(00:47):
But, Cindy, I will let youintroduce yourself and then
we'll get into the conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, thank you so much, Evelyn, for having me.
I have thoroughly enjoyed ourconversations.
We are equally passionate aboutserving families, working
families in our communities, andit is one of the hardest jobs.
Whether you're the educator,the owner, the director, the
(01:15):
cook, it's one of the hardestjobs.
So we have to make sure thatthere are individuals out there,
and I believe you aredefinitely one that tries to
hold up in admiration theindividuals that are on the
ground every day.
And I had the opportunity toaccidentally become part of the
(01:40):
child care community In 1980, Ibecame a three-hour-a-day
preschool teacher for a largecompany.
I did it mainly because my childwas three.
Well, one of my children wasthree my daughter and I wanted
her to go to preschool.
We were in a new town and I sawthis sign that said they were
(02:01):
opening this new preschool,which was a childcare center as
well.
That said they were openingthis new preschool, which was a
child care center as well,montessori based and I went in
to see about enrolling her and Igot recruited.
Oh, wow.
And the interesting thing aboutthe recruitment was back in
1980, there were no earlychildhood degrees or CDAs, and I
(02:22):
guess I ask a lot of goodquestions as a parent and the
director asked me if I'd everworked with children and I said
well, I teach Sunday school agesthree to five.
And that was like.
It was like saying I have adegree, 10 years experience in
today's world.
So she said have you everthought about working in
childcare?
Well, I went to work and Istayed for 36 years.
It was a company that wasgrowing.
(02:45):
It was a small, family-ownedcompany.
They grew to be the secondlargest child care company.
They're still in business.
However, they moved over andthey're part of another company
and I had the opportunity togrow with them.
I was a director, I was a cook,I was a van driver back in the
day when we had vans.
I was a cook, I was a vandriver back in the day when we
(03:05):
had vans.
I became a district manager, adivisional director and
eventually I became a vicepresident and I retired from
that position in 2016.
And, needless to say, I learneda lot.
There wasn't a lot of trainingback then, but the company I
(03:26):
worked for as training andconcepts and developmentally
appropriateness and brainresearch, you know began to
become available and knowingthey did a great job training us
on all of those things.
But I tell you what you stilllearn a lot from just being in
(03:47):
the schools, the centers, theclassrooms, talking to again the
boots on the ground.
So I have had the opportunity inmy career to accredit schools
that I was overseeing as amulti-site manager in 12
different states.
So that became a passion and asa result, somewhere along the
(04:09):
line I was asked to be a boardmember for the National Early
Childhood Program accreditation.
When I retired, thatorganization had acquired the
National Child Care Associationthat had actually lost its way
and they asked me to be thedirector of that organization
for six months till they couldfind someone.
(04:32):
And I'm in my sixth year andI'm so happy that they have
allowed me to stay.
And my greatest joy is actuallybeing able to talk to people in
the field to find out what isit that you love about your job
and what do you need to do to tokeep it and stay in it and do
(04:54):
what you love.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yes, absolutely that.
That, yeah, that is a greatpassion and I love so much of
what you guys do and I know I'mI'm really excited that we're
going to start aligning.
I know when I first reached outto you, it was for a lot of
reasons.
I'm seeing a lot of differentstates that I work with that are
, honestly, the private childcare is in trouble and I think
(05:18):
we're very aligned on that andthere's other associations out
there that really aren't asbusiness friendly as they used
to be, which is why I do likealigning with you guys instead
and why I reached out to you.
But behind the scenes, before westarted recording, we were
talking about what are we goingto talk about?
Right, and I said, well, it'dbe nice to have a conversation.
(05:41):
We don't want to be political,but we kind of are a little bit,
but not really right, becauseone of the things we were
talking about is that theeconomy, everything we face in
childcare and what we need toadvocate right now.
It happens in cycles and Ithink in our current climate,
what we're seeing is so manypeople looking to the government
(06:05):
for answers, for help, right,and no matter what
administration is in power, itreally doesn't.
I mean, it kind of changes alittle, but it really doesn't.
So I know, for me, a lot of myclients and people who are
reaching out to me right now arenewer owners who weren't around
during, like pre-COVID, right,and so this industry has been,
(06:31):
honestly, pretty easy post-COVID, because there was so much
money thrown at us, all of theARP grants and all the things
coming.
It was kind of easy, and nowwe're back to like 2017 through
2019 type of culture in earlychildhood education in the
private sector, so we're seeinga lot of really scared owners.
(06:55):
So, before we got on, though,you were saying a little bit
about how the economy goes incycles.
This is normal.
These are normal cycles and inECE, as private centers, we
really need to learn how to gothrough these cycles.
So what do you have?
What is your take on that?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Well, in the 36 years that I was in the business and
of the 36 years I was, for 32 ofthose, a multi-site manager and
I was throughout my career.
I shifted and had supervisoryduties over the operation and
the financial outcomes in 12different states, and economies
(07:42):
sometimes are very geographical.
I mean it could be flourishingin one part of the country and
not in another.
Right now we're kind of in atime where it's not flourishing
anywhere.
But at the same time, if youlive long enough, you see the
ebb and flow of the economy andyou have to learn what to do
(08:03):
when the economy is high andyou're bringing in the money and
you have to learn what to dowhen it's not.
And one of the things that I'venoted in my career not only
with the people that I've workedwith and supported, but also
being parts of childcareassociations in different states
and being a part of a group ofbusiness owners you know is that
(08:27):
a lot of times child careadministrators are actually not
child care administrators.
They love child care, they wereteachers, they have gotten, you
know, a degree or education inthis field and that's exactly
what licensing everywhererequires.
(08:47):
But they don't require thebusiness side.
And if you don't educateyourself on the business side
prior to entering the industry,you're going to struggle because
, no matter what you did before,it's different If you owned a
coffee shop and now you're goingto struggle because, no matter
what you did before, it'sdifferent.
If you owned a coffee shop andnow you're in child care, it's
(09:09):
different.
You know we have regulationsthat we have to stand by and
those regulations protectchildren.
And you know there's noindustry that uses the kind of
labor that we do.
But that labor is necessary,you can't avoid it.
So it's a different businessmodel.
So there can be no waste Right?
(09:31):
So I would say to people youhave to look at educating
yourself on how to manage thebusiness side of the business
and then you can determinewhether or not that's something
you're capable of or even wantto do, because we'll be out of
(09:51):
business really quick.
And also, a lot of times peopleavoid change and what I've noted
when the economy shifts,sometimes you have to look at
different ways to do business.
Sometimes you can raise yourrates and it doesn't, and you
can build your revenue that way,and other times you have to
(10:12):
build it by enrollment.
And then there are other timeswhere you have to look at other
programs, such as you know.
I know that there are providersthat don't always want to take
a child that is subsidized.
But neighborhoods change andwhen the economy changes,
sometimes people go back to workor lose jobs and they go back
(10:36):
to school.
And now I qualify for subsidyand you're in a neighborhood
where maybe that's what'shappened and you might want to
consider that.
And then there's also the foodprogram.
I can't tell you how manypeople that I have been
acquainted with that have triedto avoid the food program and it
(10:58):
really is a wonderful programfor children and it saves most
businesses 5% to 6% to be ableto utilize somewhere else,
whether it's teacher salaries oryou know, supply needed
supplies, and again we have tobe willing to make those shifts
(11:20):
to keep our businesses strong.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Oh, I so agree.
Earlier today I was having aconversation with some high
level owners and that was one ofthe big things we were
discussing is that you have tobe willing to pivot and you have
to watch the market.
So one of the things I'm goingthrough, for example, is I've
been running a before and afterschool program in my area for 18
(11:45):
years, but this year, for thefirst time, I'm losing a
substantial amount of money onit.
I can't break even.
So now, for the first time in18 years, I have to look at
dropping that program andreplacing it with something
different.
As an owner, I have to be readyto pivot, and it does take
sustainability, and I know for alot of leaders and one of the
(12:09):
leaders that we were counselingtoday it's hard, because the
other part of us being teachersand loving children and then
going into these administrativejobs the other part of that is,
our hearts are a little bitdifferent.
Right, we don't always havethat heart for business and it
(12:30):
isn't easy to make these toughdecisions on.
Okay, I'm going to have to dropmy before and after school
program.
Some of these children havebeen with me for six and seven
and eight years, right, but Ialso have to take into
consideration what is it costing?
Where could that money be going?
How is it really affecting mybusiness?
(12:52):
And you have to be able to makethose hard decisions and I think
it's very important for us toacknowledge that they aren't
easy.
We don't like making them, butyou get to a point in business
where you realize I have topivot right now, otherwise we
have a choice.
We don't like making them, butyou get to a point in business
where you realize I have topivot right now, otherwise we
have a choice we get to beBlockbuster or we get to be
Netflix, and part of the reasonBlockbuster is no longer a
(13:13):
household name is because theydidn't pivot when it was time to
pivot.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Right.
Yeah that is so true.
I can remember I had gotten toa point with some of my centers
that I was overseeing that werebecoming way too full of school
age children, leaving little orno space for younger children.
(13:39):
Because, as you said, thesechildren go grow up with you.
Because, as you said, thesechildren go grow up with you.
And you know, I was licensed inmost of my schools in this
particular time period for ahundred and as the kids grew up
or they maybe joined us, youknow, because we had a lot of
good, you know word of mouth,you know which is what you want,
(14:01):
that's what it's called word ofmouth mouth we had to back down
and say we are, instead oftaking children through age 12,
we are going to take themthrough the fourth grade.
And we use grade versus agebecause, you know, sometimes a
fourth grader is nine andsometimes they're 10.
(14:24):
And that you know there werepeople that were, you know,
really upset by that.
But we would have potentiallyput ourselves out of business
because we weren't able to.
It wouldn't mean our building's, you know, half empty all day
and we can't do that.
So you know, again, we use ourheart and our head.
It has to balance.
(14:45):
I always told those that I werecoaching and mentoring and
supporting is that it's a scaleand on one side you have your
head and on one side you haveyour heart, and it can never do
this.
It can never do that.
It's got to stay even.
But in those scenarios weactually, you know, reached out
(15:06):
and because we were's a lot ofpeople doing good things and
they may be able to teach yousomething.
Or, in this case, we knew whowas doing good things because we
(15:28):
were part of the child careassociations and the director
organizations and we knew thatthere were some centers that
could take.
You know that we could say to aparent check out this school.
Yes, you know, miss Jane is awonderful person.
I you know.
See her at our monthly meetings.
I but, of course, use your ownjudgment, but you know she's
(15:54):
only a mile from here.
She services the school you goto, and that was, you know, what
I would tell you to do firstand see what you think and let
me know.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, I agree on that so much.
One of my big things is thecollaboration over competition
and in our industry it's prettybrutal when it comes to
competition where a lot of timesit's almost like centers are
pitted against each other.
And and I have to just sayhonestly, when you really start
(16:20):
learning and building yourbusiness acumen, you start to
realize that one of the moststrategic business moves you can
make is to be collaborative.
And the most successfulcompanies in the world like
McDonald's and Taco Bell, theyactually collaborate.
It's collaboration overcompetition is so much more
profitable.
(16:42):
And to what you were saying,sometimes, like for me, I'm
dropping my before and afterschool program Now my
collaborator down the street.
Her before and after schoolprogram may be thriving, so she
may take that on, but drop herinfants where I will take the
infants.
So when you are incommunication and collaboration
(17:02):
you can actually create theseintentional collaborations and
really enhance each other'sbusiness.
The other thing on that, Ithink it's important for us to
remember that this is about thechildren, it's not about us, and
every family is going to have adifferent need and I realize
fully my program is not best forevery family.
(17:23):
Some people are better off in adifferent philosophical child
care program that is morealigned with their family values
.
Right, and some children arebetter in home providers because
my center is large and it mightbe overwhelming for them.
So I love that you brought upthe collaborations and joining
(17:43):
these associations and reallyforming alliances and stop
looking at yourself as acompetitor but instead start
seeing your fellow child carecenters as collaborators.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
One of the things that I, you know, used to bring
up to any of the teams that Ihad the opportunity to support
over the 30, you know, almost 40years, is the fact that, when a
child care center is on thenews, you know something that
has occurred that nobody wantedto see happen leaving a child in
(18:19):
a box or something of thatnature.
I said most people only hear thewords child care.
They don't even hear the nameor the brand and they suddenly
put us all together.
So if we work together andsupport each other, I think we
would have less situations likethat, because sometimes it's a
(18:41):
conversation when you're, youknow, when you're meeting or
together to say, oh, so tell me,what is everybody doing for the
summer?
What are you doing to?
You know, make sure your staffis, you know, fully trained on,
you know what they need to knowto keep children safe on field
(19:01):
trips and from the sun.
I work for a large company andwe had a lot of tools and we had
a lot of collaboration and thecenters I managed were close
together, but it still didn'tmean that somebody in the
community because an owner,operator in the community was
focused on that community.
(19:22):
And I may be in severalcommunities and I want to know
what works best here.
I've been in militarycommunities.
You know that you're going tobe open earlier and your center
is going to be practically emptyby four or 430 and everything
(19:44):
shifts and I know, when I firststarted doing business in
military towns I had to learnthat I was kind of like well, we
open at 630, we close at six.
This is how we staff thebuilding in the morning and how
we're like.
And then all of a sudden I'm ina community with military and
everything shifts.
So the people that were in thatcommunity doing business, you
(20:08):
know, said oh, this is a littledifferent.
Or when you're in a collegetown, staffing a center in a
college town is different thanstaffing it in a bedroom
community where there's a lot ofstay-at-home moms that need to
work but don't want to leave thecommunity to work.
(20:29):
Again, it's talking to otherpeople and learning and we used
to do what we called competitorvisits and it was a requirement
of the company I worked for andI would go in and you know,
sometimes people were.
I would always be forthrightand say this is who I am and
(20:51):
we're encouraged to get out andvisit with, you know, the people
in our community, ourcompetitors, you know, just to
see how things are going.
And if you're struggling withanything and you know what,
how's business for you?
We're not here to take yourbusiness and we want you to come
.
We want you to come see usbecause in the end, as a
(21:13):
community, we want to do goodwork for children and families.
But I wasn't always receivedreally well because I seemed to
be somebody before my time andit was because it was a
requirement of my job to reportback.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Right, yeah, now that's some really good points.
And kind of, on that, knowingyour community and going back to
the point of pivoting, I thinkboth of them kind of go hand in
hand.
So something we're goingthrough in my community and I
think we're starting to see thisa little bit nationwide.
And in our last conversationyou were saying to me that you
(21:48):
noticed that things start on theWest Coast and kind of move
nationally, and I'm kind ofnoticing that now too.
And one of the things we'reseeing here is this major fear
of institutions, right.
And going back to what you weresaying also about, when people
start, something happens at adaycare or a childcare center
that is bad, and then it's onthe news and it becomes this
(22:12):
collective opinion of daycare,right.
And now this, well, that's kindof what we're going through
right now, where it's thiscollective opinion of.
But it's this collectiveopinion but it's more anything
institutional.
It's like the system is corrupt.
So I just realized, ok, we needto figure something out for this
.
That's what my community isgoing through in this time that
(22:35):
we live in, that we live in.
So basically, I created a newprogram where it's a hybrid of a
mommy and me and a co-op kindof combined, but my marketing is
pretty much well, if you don'ttrust the system, that's okay.
Then come to school with yourchild.
Your child still needs theeducation, they still need the
socialization and I get that youdon't trust the system and I am
(23:00):
open to you being with yourchild to make sure I'm not
indoctrinating your child.
Anything else you can monitor,you can learn with your child,
you can still oversee and yourchild gets everything they need.
So I think it's very importantduring these tough economic
times in order for us to thriveand not just survive.
Look at your community.
(23:21):
What are the gaps, what are theneeds, how can you fill it,
what can you do?
And don't be afraid to pivot.
That is how you're not onlygoing to survive, but you're
going to make it through thesetough times and not have to
really be so stressed out andworried about what is incoming.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Right and worried about what is incoming Right.
I love the idea of what yousaid about the mommy and me and
how you have used it as a way tomake people that maybe aren't
comfortable leaving their child.
That certainly serves a greatpurpose for someone that may
(23:58):
later decide to go back to work,so that's a great idea.
It is a great example ofpivoting.
I know for me there's been acouple of pivots in my career
because sometimes asneighborhoods change and they
age and they become moresecondary and you can buy family
(24:21):
homes for less money becausethey're older Then that your
market has changed, the andmaybe some of your customer base
, you know, is different andmaybe a little lower income,
maybe they're even qualifying,you know, for some kind of
subsidy Right.
(24:48):
And I can remember when I firstintroduced to some directors in
Oklahoma where we had theopportunity to accredit our
schools, which I was excitedabout because I thought, oh gosh
, we're, you know, to benationally accredited and to be
able to recognize the work thatpeople do and what they put into
this you know, every day and toget as good as we possibly can
get for children was exciting,but it was also a way for me to
(25:09):
add some dollars to my revenue.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
That when I couldn't get a rate increase, I could get
extra dollars in a tieredreimbursement program to be able
to help cover raises for myteachers, because accreditation
typically requires, you know,credentialed or degreed teachers
.
And it also and then sometimes,when it sometimes it becomes
(25:37):
necessary to again, you'retaking care of a certain
percentage of children.
They may not even be on subsidy, but their families qualify for
a food program just like theydo in school, and I know I had
to have many a talk withdirectors who were afraid to do
it, but I would give them anoption.
Well, here's what we're goingto do, because your school is
(25:59):
not.
I had schools that sometimeswere barely, you know, surviving
, and it's like we can do one ofthree things.
We can, you know, look atclosing the school, but you have
a lot of children and I betthere's a lot more that could
utilize this wonderful program.
Or we can raise your rate, $20 aweek, or we can get on the food
(26:20):
program.
So if you were to ask yourparents which one of those three
would work for their family atthis time, because the excuse
was always well, they don't wantto fill out the paperwork.
You know they have to fill outa form, yes, yes, what can you
do for the public school?
(26:40):
And I said ask them yeah, youwant to fill out this form and
we won't raise your rate thisyear.
And oh, and, by the way, we'readding free breakfast because
before they were paying.
And the director would say, ohwell, now that you put it that
way.
So sometimes it's teachingourselves to think in a way that
(27:11):
maybe we weren't taught tothink, or that we don't want to
think, and and that's that'swhat we have to do if we want to
be sustainable and be out there, you know, long term, running
or administrating our, our childcare businesses, because we're
needed.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Yeah, I so agree with you what we did in my food
program, because we got the samething.
Parents didn't want to fill outthe paperwork, so I basically
said, ok, I understand you don'twant to put your income
information, that's totally fine.
So if you choose not to, thenwe will be charging you an
additional $25 a week to coverthe cost of food.
And but you're right, I had ahundred percent of the parents
(27:48):
fill it out after you tell them,like I totally respect your
privacy and it's going to costyou $25 a week because that's
basically what it's going tocost me.
So it's kind of funny when yousuddenly change the conversation
a little bit, it does changetheir minds.
The other thing, too, I want topoint out, in a discussion that
(28:09):
came up this morning as I wastalking to those other owners,
one of the things they said well, we had one of the newer owners
and talking with a panel ofseasoned owners that I am
affiliated with, and she justsaid well, when you make these
changes, doesn't it make yourstaff and parents angry?
And the answer is yes,sometimes it does.
(28:31):
There's always going to besomebody not happy.
Yes, it does, and as leaders wehave to make those decisions.
We have to look at the healthof our business, what is best
for the children, what is bestfor our teachers?
And just know that, yes, thereare going to be people who
aren't happy about it, andthat's okay.
You still have to move forwardand make these decisions and
(28:56):
it's not always easy.
Sometimes it is hard for us too, because we want to make
everyone happy.
But people pleasing is notgoing to get you to be one of
that 9% of childcare programsthat can survive beyond 10 years
.
So just know I love to justtouch on the psychology behind
(29:18):
it and the mindset, and justgiving you permission to know
that it's not going to be easyand you, it's okay to do it
anyway.
It's okay not to make everybodyhappy.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Well, yes, because you might be saying yes to
something that that really coulddo not only harm to your
business a business but thebusiness of children.
Yes, I can, you know I can, oh,my goodness I.
I, so many parents in my lifeand times, you know, have wanted
to.
You know, bring quilts fortheir the crib, yeah.
(29:53):
Or they want them to sleep ontheir backs instead of their
their tummies, and saying yes tothose things would do great
harm again to a child.
But then it would back rightinto you losing your business
too.
And we have to be prepared tosay the why.
I think that's the one thingthat you know.
(30:17):
I'm going to tell you the whybehind it.
And if you still disagree, thegood news is you don't have to
choose me to be your provider.
As much as I want to be yourprovider and want to take care
of, you know, your little one, Ican't be talked into something,
(30:38):
you know, that is going to doharm to my business and
especially, potentially, to achild, child, yeah.
And so, again, they havechoices.
They don't.
They can make another choice,Because if you have 100 families
in your center, my goodness,you could be doing things 100
(30:59):
different ways.
I can't even imagine what thatwould be, but I will tell you
that's one of the things that inmy, in my career that you have,
that most, most directors haveto be taught how to say no.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's not easy.
I don't want, like sometimes Ifeel like I can come up here and
say these things and make itseem easy.
So I want you to know that thisis still a struggle for me, to
going through these seasonswhere you have to undo something
you did once before and makethese uncomfortable changes and
(31:39):
and sometimes we don't like it,but we understand that in order
for us to have a sustainablebusiness.
I love what you said earlierabout telling the directors well
, we could close our doors,because sometimes it does come
down to that we could close ourdoors or we can make this change
or we can make this pivot.
So it's just know that it isn'teasy, but we have to do it
(32:02):
anyway.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
We do.
We do because we want tocontinue doing what we love,
what we're good at and what weknow makes a huge difference.
Yeah, and I think that one ofthe things that always comes up
on.
I have a top 10 list of thingsdirectors and owners have to do
if they're going to be long-termsuccessful, and again, one of
(32:25):
them is learning to say no, but,and also learning to collect
your money, because it's reallyhard to have to say I can't
continue without you knowpayment, and once your family is
able to get back on track withpaying us weekly, then we will
(32:49):
welcome you back.
I think it's learning how to saysomething I used to tell people
to don't say policy, it's ourpolicy.
Don't say policy, just say itis what we do here.
You know, whatever the name ofthe center is, this is what we
do and this is why we do it.
Yeah, it might be a regulationand it might be a policy, but
(33:13):
this is what we do and this iswhy we do it.
And, by the way, it's in ourhandbook, and so I don't.
You know we try very hard notto make anything a surprise
Again.
You're still going to havepeople that are unhappy.
You're going to have peoplethat get mad, that cry, and
again it's dealing withdifferent emotions, but trying
(33:35):
to keep yourself in check whileyou're dealing with those yes.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yes, yep, and just know it's not you and it's okay
for them to be angry.
They have that right to beangry and you have a right to
disagree, that's okay.
But standing in your power andjust not allowing your staff or
the parents to steal your powerwhen you're just doing what you
have to do to make your businesssustainable, that is so very
(34:03):
important and it is okay to dothat.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Because the needs of the many will always outweigh
the needs of the few, andcatering to one family if it
jeopardizes, you know, 25 otherfamilies, you know, then, really
, that it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
It's detrimental Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
I would say, too, that directors and
administrators and owners shouldalways have in their back
pocket places that they canreference parents to.
Like you know, most cities andcounties have child care aware
referrals, yes, or carecom, orchild care licensing may be able
(34:45):
to provide a list of licensedchild care homes or you know
something, so that you're givingthem something, information
that can help them make the youknow, to make the move to
something that may work betterfor their family.
I'm all about trying to.
You know, cut ties when thathappens needs to happen in a way
(35:10):
that allows for everybody'sdignity to remain intact and to
give them a little bit ofguidance without holding their
hand or doing it for them.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
I agree 100%.
When we let a family go, we'lldo the same thing.
We'll just help place themsomewhere else first and just
let them know, and sometimes,like with the payment issue, we
have to let them go.
That's okay and we can stillhelp them through it and not
burn a bridge.
So but, cindy, thank you somuch for giving us your time.
I really, really appreciate youand I'm hoping that we get to
(35:42):
hear from you more often.
This has been an awesomeconversation.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Well, and we look forward to having you in the
near future on one of ournational child care podcasts,
and I'm happy to know that theWest Coast is, you know, well
represented with someone doinggreat work for children, and
let's definitely stay in touch.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Definitely, thank you .
Thank you, evelyn, you'rewelcome.
For those of you listening, Iwill put Cindy's contact
information, just moreinformation on where you can
find out more about the NationalChild Care Association.
And, by the way, they are alsoan accrediting body that, cindy,
you do represent.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
So NECPA National Early Childhood Program
Accreditation, and if you everhave any questions about NCCA or
NECPA, please don't hesitate tocontact me.
I am passionate aboutaccrediting centers and making
sure that our child carebusinesses have support and
(36:45):
resources, and that's what we doat NCCA have support and
resources, and that's what we doat NCCA.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Well, thank you so much for that work.
So all of the contactinformation will be in the show
notes.
Thank you everybody.
Thank you everyone Bye-bye,bye-bye.
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