Prepare for an enlightening journey as we uncover profound parallels between the art of singing and living a vibrant Christian life. Promising soul-stirring revelations, vocal instructor Elizabeth Norfrey unveils the similarities of air in both singing and spiritual life. Dorian delivers another though provoking commentary on the hymn "More Love to Thee O' Christ".
In the heart of this episode, we explore how churches can unlock greater musical excellence, encourage professional musicians and value the power of all types of singers. As we navigate these discussions, you'll discover strategies to strengthen your church's music program. Our guest contributor, Tammy Williams, a worship leader, solo artist, and a passionate musician, shares her choir experiences that span from her father's family group to college, and how these rich experiences have fueled the growth of her church choir.
Bringing a fresh perspective on revitalizing church choirs and school ensembles, we touch on the methods used by Tammy to infuse new life into her schools' gospel choir. Her vibrant personality acts as a catalyst, fostering a deeper understanding of praise and worship within her church choir. We then explore the art of song selection for churches with multiple choirs, and then wrapping up with "The Thought of the Week" with Coleman Smart. Don't miss this unique intertwining of melody and faith.
https://www.davidneliz.com/
https://www.paracletecollaborative.com/
Perpetuating and Promoting the Christian and Positive Idea Through the Medium of Music and Other Arts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the choir room, season 1, episode 23 of
the Choir Room Podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Welcome to the choir room.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I'm Greg Thomas, your host, and I'll soon be joined
by my co-host, Dorian Johnson.
Welcome to the choir room.
Vietta Stansu, Pharaa, and whowe like to call the fourth wheel
, Coleman Smart.
If you haven't subscribed tothis podcast already, you really
need to do so or you're goingto miss out on some very
important things coming up inthe next few months.
(00:33):
You can subscribe anywhere thatyou get your podcast and do
share it with any of yoursinging buddies or your choir
friends, and when you do that,be sure to give us a five-star
review and your comments, asthey are welcomed and
appreciated.
You can also leave yourcomments and join the new
conversations happening on ourFacebook page, the Choir Room.
And finally, if you want toensure that you are informed of
(00:55):
all things choir room relatedbeyond the podcast, be sure to
send the words subscribe to theChoir Room at MetroMusic-Artcom.
That is the best way to stay inthe know of all things choir
room related, and that includesgifts, prizes and surprises.
On last week, in episode 22, wehad the privilege of having
(01:17):
David and Elizabeth Norfrey herein the choir room and they
shared quite a few nuggets fromtheir musical experience and
journey.
Here's more of thatconversation that didn't get
aired on episode 22.
Elizabeth, you mentioned theimportance of healthy vocal
technique and the similaritiesbetween that and a fruitful
Christian life.
(01:38):
Talk to us a bit about that.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Right?
Well, so the air is essential.
Air is essential to life andair is essential to singing.
So everything just and theparallel with the spiritual life
is that Ruach, that Holy Spiritis what, that's the gas in the
car that empowers us to live ourChristian life.
But the air is the essential,that's the most important, in
(02:07):
some ways most important part ofthe instrument.
Because you know, if, becausethe air comes up, the vocal
cords, which are muscle right inthe throat, the vocal cords
vibrate, but if they're pushedtogether and if they're
operating on their own strength,being forced, then you're going
(02:27):
to get strain, you're going toget tension.
But if the air comes up andallows the vocal cords to
vibrate, then the tone is freeto resonate through the, you
know, the sinus cavities,through all the resonators of
our head.
And so I had this revelationone day.
(02:47):
This is so much like theChristian life, this is like the
Holy Spirit comes.
This is we yield and allow theair to move, and then there's
fruit, then there's the fruit isallowed to resonate, and when a
voice is resonant, the voicecan be loud.
But if a voice is resonant likean opera singer can hit the
(03:09):
back of the room with no problem, because the opera singer knows
how to wake up those resonatorsso that the sound is the
sympathetic vibrations are goingthrough the sinus cavities and
then out through through thehead and creating, you know,
high frequencies and all of that.
So so it's amazing what thehuman voice can do and it is so
(03:35):
important to pay attention towhat's going on with the
management of the breath.
And I know a lot of teachershave different opinions on you
know, just allow it to be whatit is.
But I think we have to be veryfocused on what our muscles are
doing in terms of using that airand allowing that air to
(03:58):
empower, to come up, and so sousing that air, using these
muscles down here as a bellows,and our focus should be here,
and really we shouldn't reallybe feeling much of anything in
the throat, so that it's free,the air is free to do the moving
of the cords, like I said, andand that we're not like taking
(04:22):
control of it in any way.
So it's just a parable.
And then, of course, you knowthe tongue.
The Bible talks about thetongue as a muscle.
It's not the largest muscle, butI've heard it said that it's
the most powerful muscle in thebody because it you know, gets
the most practice from the timewe start eating, you know it
(04:42):
gets the most practice, and soit's a very it's a very powerful
, and so it needs to be tamed,just like spiritually it needs
to be tamed, it needs to berelaxed, you know it needs to be
properly positioned, properlypositioned to make beautiful
vowel shapes and things likethat.
So so they're just a lot ofparallels.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
That's some good information and you can get more
of it from David and Elizabethat Davidinelizcom that's David
letter.
In ELIZcom and atParacletecollaborativecom You'll
find more information about theservices that they provide and
you can look forward to morehelpful nuggets from them in the
coming weeks.
(05:23):
And stick around, because ourguest contributor today is a
worship leader.
Choir director, musician andsolo artist.
Tammy Williams will be joiningus today right here in the choir
room.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Welcome to the choir room.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Dorian has our hymn of the week.
Thanks, greg.
This week's hymn of the week isMore Love to the O Christ.
Elizabeth Payson Prentice wrotethis hymn and while gifted with
writing stories and poems, sheknew much pain in her life.
Her father died of tuberculosiswhen she was nine, and four
(06:01):
years later she would beconverted to Christ.
In 1845 she would marry GeorgeLouis Prentice, and by 1852 she
had lost two of her threechildren.
One is a newborn and one at agefour.
However, she went on to havethree more healthy children,
despite her own poor health.
(06:21):
While the hymn would bepublished in 1869, it is
believed that in 1856 she pennedthe lyrics to this hymn after
she nearly lost her daughter toan illness.
The hymn's refrain is a plea formore love to be given to Christ
.
And as we consider all thatChrist has given to us in
(06:42):
setting aside the glory ofheaven and humbling himself by
adding a human nature to hisdivine nature, coming to this
earth and walking completelyobedient to God's law while
being reviled by those hecreated and then suffering the
humiliation of the cross andbearing the just wrath of God in
the place of sinners, shouldnot our response be an offering
(07:05):
of our love to God.
But this hymn indicates thetension of the Christian life in
that while we love God, we donot love him as fully as we are.
So this hymn truly is adeclaration of the Christian's
desire to love God more.
Verse one we read the lyricsMore love to thee, o Christ,
(07:27):
more love to thee.
Here thou the prayer I make onbended knee.
This is my earnest plea.
More love, o Christ, to thee,more love to thee, more love to
thee.
Verse two the hymn writerreminds us of what our life
(07:48):
before Christ was like when weread Once earthly joy I crave,
sought peace and rest.
And now that we are in Christwe can truly say Now, thee alone
I seek, give what is best.
This all my prayer shall bemore love, o Christ, to thee,
more love to thee, more love.
(08:10):
This is my earnest plea.
Verse three points us to thework of trials and difficult
(08:32):
circumstances in the life of theChristian to increase our trust
and dependence on the.
Lord Says Let sorrow do itswork, send grief and pain.
Sweet are thy messengers, sweetthey refrain when they can sing
with me.
More love, o Christ, to thee,more love to thee, more love to
(08:58):
thee.
And, as many hymns point usultimately to the fact that we
will all come face to face withthe Lord, and unless he tarries,
unless he returns, and if hetarries, we will all die and we
will all come to see him face toface through death.
And so the last verse says Thenshall my latest breath whisper
(09:21):
thy praise.
This be the parting cry.
My heart shall raise this still.
Its prayer shall be more love,o Christ to thee, more love to
thee, more love to thee.
In Deuteronomy 6.5 we read youshall love the Lord, your God,
with all your heart, with allyour soul and with all your
(09:44):
might.
Because of our sin, we, whohave even been redeemed by the
Lord, cannot love him as we lovehim.
But with this hymn give voiceto our desire to love God more
today and to seek to love himmore each day, more than the
last.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
O Christ to thee, more love to thee.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Welcome to the quiet room.
Beedah is going to challenge usagain with another CRQ.
Speaker 6 (10:31):
Thanks, greg.
Tonight is our usual CRQ andtonight we have the question how
can the church make theprofessional singer more
welcomed about their profession?
How can the church make theprofessional singer more
welcomed about their profession?
I will say this this questionkind of stumped me for a second
(10:57):
because I wasn't sure.
I wasn't sure professionalmeaning what type of music
exactly that I'm thinking thatthe church would frown on.
You know like what kind of?
I had to put on my thinking capfor a second of what this was
really about here, what thebackstory to this question was,
(11:19):
and thinking about it.
And when you say professionalsinger, it's so interesting
because there's someprofessional gospel singers and
then their professional secularsingers and I immediately in
that went to the secular worldbecause I don't know, maybe
y'all can correct me on this I'mhoping that there's no gospel
(11:40):
music.
That just would not be totallyunacceptable in the church.
I really want to believe that.
I know a lot of singers who doboth and who attend churches.
They do.
They don't necessarily sing inthe, maybe the clubs or the bars
, but they do sing in areaswhere it's.
(12:00):
They don't sing gospel music, itsecular, inspirational music,
whatever it is they put to itnow, whatever the the adjectives
that they put to the music now,but they also function in their
churches as well and thechurches seem to what I do know.
The churches seem to be okaywith what it is they do.
(12:22):
I have not encountered asituation where the church did
not accept them in theirprofession.
Maybe you guys had, so Icouldn't really speak to the
church not being more welcome.
I can only say that I've neverseen that happen, but maybe,
again, you guys have probablyviewed this or have experienced
(12:45):
this so what say you?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
as the country boy always says, context is
everything.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And my mind actually immediately went to an interest
of mine, which is opera.
And you think of a professionalopera singer who comes into a
choir and just by their training, their voice overpowers other
(13:17):
people.
Their people feel intimidatedsinging with them because they
know that they are trainedprofessionally.
And so I think it's just one ofthose things where, if you have
a different style, or cominginto a choir that maybe sings
(13:39):
music that's of a differentgenre than your profession, that
you have to realize that youmay have to and this is
something that we discussedbefore you may have to adjust
what you're doing, especiallywith opera.
You're out there, typicallyYou're trying to belt over a
(13:59):
full orchestra and everythingelse, and in a choir setting
you're supposed to be blendingin with others.
And so that's where my mindwent, actually, because I have
heard and even have seeninstances where just opera
singers have struggled in choirsituations because of just their
(14:20):
training and the strength oftheir voice.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I think there are so many different ways of
interpreting this question, sowhoever asked maybe will hit
what you meant by that.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I thought you were going to say call us and tell us
what you really meant.
Well, you could do that.
You could do that.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
But between the five of us maybe we'll hit the actual
thing that you're talking about, Mieta.
I have been in someenvironments that are very
protective of their platform,that if someone is a
professional musician and theyplay in contexts that aren't
(15:04):
honoring to God sometimes it'slike in bars or in clubs or then
they might make well, let'sjust say they probably won't be
playing on a regular bassistbecause of that aspect of their
(15:27):
professional life.
And I've seen some churchesmake their platform a mission
field sometimes.
So you never know.
I've seen some people say, well, this is how we're going to
connect them to Jesus.
So I don't know.
It depends on, again, theleadership of your pastoral team
(15:48):
and where your heart is.
But the way that I firstinterpreted this question, I
thought about a professionalmusician coming into our
church's service for the firsttime.
I think the best way toimmediately make a professional
musician feel welcome is to haveexcellent music, music that is
(16:17):
not lacking in practice andpreparation.
But when a professional walksin, they can say, oh, these
people really care about this.
They care about this as much asI care about this Sometimes.
There's a place for me here,because a lot of times churches
(16:37):
will pander to the vast majorityof the congregation who is not
musically savvy, who they don'thave a degree, they don't have a
lot of training, and they'llget them.
That's about 90% of people.
But there's that 10% of peoplewho know what's going on, who
have the degrees, have sunginquires, that kind of thing,
(16:58):
and a lot of times we think, oh,we've got the 90%, we're doing
fine.
But if you strive forexcellence and you have an
excellent music program, you getthat 10% and all 90% that come
behind them too.
So I think it's important tocreate an environment where
(17:19):
professional musicians know thatwhat's going on on the platform
, that we take it seriously,Because I feel like that
connects them more.
If I was as a professionalmusician, if I walked into a
church where I felt like theydon't take their music and their
(17:40):
ministry seriously, then Iprobably wouldn't be as inclined
to stick around.
So that was where my mind wentfirst.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, I think there are a number of things in this
question and again I think allof us will hit on something that
the writer can take away.
But when I hear how can thechurch be more receptive?
It is a blanket statement andit unfortunately is not fair to
the church at large.
(18:10):
I think the question probablyis being more directed to the
people in leadership in themusic ministry or even people in
the choir, where those morepersonal experiences may have
happened and so we can't say thechurch is not receptive.
In fact, when it comes togospel music or church choirs in
particular, my experience andmy opinion is that the church
(18:34):
has been a little too receptiveover the years and accepting and
allowing any and everybody, andso there's been a big demand
and a big push on talent and notenough demand on righteousness,
accountability and excellence,and I think the spirit of
excellence is a result of thefirst two, the righteousness and
accountability.
So we have to have those things.
(18:56):
Now to Dorian's point.
I think the expectation of theprofessional singer might be
levied upon the church that itresponds the same way that the
theater or the club or thewedding party does, and that's
just not the case.
There are plenty of Christianmusicians and singers who
perform outside of the church,but the expectation in terms of
(19:19):
being receptive may not be fairto the church, because the world
responds differently.
They're looking for somethingdifferent, you know, and so
we're talking two differentthings.
So the presentation of themusic then has to be different
from that which you do somewhereelse, otherwise you're not as
(19:39):
professional as you thought youwere.
Oh, and I don't mean that in anegative.
I just mean that professionalsinger is going to know what to
expect from that choir or fromthat church, and they're not
going to levy the expectationsin terms of the response to
their singing on the churchchoir or on the church
(20:00):
congregation.
Speaker 6 (20:01):
There you have it.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Well, I think it's more about realistic
expectations from theprofessional singer than it is
the church not being morereceptive.
Now I've said this many times,and you guys can testify to this
, that way too often the churchhas acted out of its desperation
to have a thriving musicministry and therefore have
(20:27):
chosen talent over character,and it has just caused a mess in
a lot of congregations.
And so when the church pursuestalent over righteousness and
accountability, and characterand excellence, it goes back to
that statement that I always usewhen we close out this podcast,
if ever, we put the messengerbefore the message, and that's
(20:50):
what many churches,unfortunately, have done with
their church choirs.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Well, I think it's important to note maybe
ministries, platform ministriesor whatever have maybe been too
receptive.
I don't know.
I mean, yeah, we always need tobe receptive, but when it comes
to sharing our platform, that,yeah, that's.
Speaker 6 (21:15):
So you know, so I'm listening to you all on and I
something really weird justpopped in my head attitude, the
word attitude popped in my headand when you're dealing
sometimes I now have encounteredthis like there's a person who
may come into a particular groupwho is a professional singer,
might have done a little morethan many of us have.
(21:36):
Their attitude when they cameinto that particular group, well
, let's just say they were foulright.
So it did not, it didn't mixwell with the others because
they had the, they had theunderstanding that I'm doing
more than you.
(21:57):
You know, I've been in placesthat you have not been.
And when they came in with thatattitude, those of them who
were already in place and doing,and you know, sacrificing and
doing all of that kind of Seanon a level, you know, because
the attitude of that particularprofessional singer and they
(22:19):
were a professional singer justwasn't something that they
wanted to be a part of.
So I also, I believe that youcan be a professional singer,
but then there's a particularspecific attitude you need to
have when you're coming into asetting that doesn't necessarily
know who you are and may notknow in entirety what you're
(22:43):
capable of, because just becauseyou say you're a professional
singer, it really doesn't mean awhole lot to us unless you
start to show improvement.
But if your attitude is one ofI am already better because of
my resume, then yeah, you mayfind that a bit difficult to
kind of fit in, to kind ofacclimate to what's going on,
(23:06):
because your mindset, yourmindset, can sometimes be a
little off-putting to others.
Now that I have seen.
But again, the church itselfdid not make that individual or
individuals feel unwelcomed.
They were still welcome.
But in that particular placethat they were trying to get in
(23:31):
there was some struggle there.
But it was not because theyweren't capable, it was just
their attitude about what it isthey could do.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah yeah, let's get Tammy in here, and then we're
going to hear from her a littlebit more in a minute.
Tammy.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
I agree with my brother here that was speaking
about like an opera singercoming into a gospel choir, that
just doesn't.
You know.
You know a jail well.
(24:06):
But as a professional singercoming into a new group, me
personally I would just like layback a little bit and just to
see you know how they operateand you know, and you know their
format and how they sing, youknow, just to see, you know how
(24:28):
everything is, you know howeverything is going, how
everything is flowing, just sothat it will be easy for me to
you know what I mean to, I guess, gel with everyone, right, yeah
, I just feel that if you justcome, if you're new, coming in,
(24:50):
and then right off the back,okay, you just jump right in
without you know feeling theflow or seeing the flow of
everything, it will make it hard, you know, for you.
But just coming in, you're new,coming in, it's good to just
lay back a little bit just tosee how everything you know is
(25:12):
flowing.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Yeah, yeah, you know.
That's one of the reasons wewould conduct interviews before
the auditions so that we canweed out or at least identify
the attitudes.
And even then, once you passedthe audition, I would ask people
to sit in for consecutiverehearsals, because then that
told me a whole lot about theircommitment.
If you want to be a part of thechoir, then you have to be able
(25:33):
to commit to rehearsals.
But this was also anopportunity to accomplish a
couple of other things.
One you get to learn some ofthe music.
Secondly, you get to decidewhether or not you really like
these people.
Our guest contributor tonightChoir Director, Worship Leader,
(25:56):
Musician and solo recordedartist.
You just heard from her duringour CRQ with you.
Welcome, Tammy Williams.
Welcome.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Welcome.
Speaker 5 (26:07):
Here.
Happy to be here, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
We have sang together in church choirs, community
choirs worked with school choirs, did some community work, did
some recording that we're goingto have to talk about and get a
little laughter in a littlelater.
Mietta knew that we had a guesttonight but she didn't know who
.
But we both grew up playing andsinging with you and knowing
you and your family.
(26:30):
Tell our listening audience alittle bit about the Tammy we
grew up knowing.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
Well, I've been singing since I was five years
old.
My dad would have my sister andI singing.
Saturday was our rehearsal time.
He would just have us singingsongs over and over.
Okay, sing it again.
(26:55):
Okay, sing it again.
So that's where I got my start.
We got older and then my dadformed a family group called the
Williams Singers and we used togo around the city singing all
(27:15):
over.
It was my dad, my mom, mybrother, sister, my cousin and
my uncle, and so that's where Igot my start.
Then joined the youth choir atthe New shallow missionary
church and sang on the youthchoir.
(27:38):
They ended up becoming theyouth director, minister of
music, at the age of, I'm goingto say, 13, 12 or 13.
Okay, so that's where I got mystart.
Then just singing all throughmy life.
(28:00):
And then I went to Westminsterchoir college Okay, went there.
You know, he sang.
And here I am now.
Still singing, still singing 54years.
Wow, 54.
Yeah, I was calculating thatthe other day and I was like wow
(28:24):
.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
So you started teaching choir at the age of 13
at the shallow missionaryBaptist church, and that would
have been under the late DrBlakely.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
And I remember that clearly because I used to come
there quite often.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Now your dad.
I remember pretty well he wasquite the guy and quite
intimidating he was.
He meant business.
He reminds me of the, of the ofthe wineings Papa.
You know he was just, he justmeant business.
(29:01):
It was it was God's businessand that was it, you know.
But you come from a singingfamily, your sister saying, your
brother saying, your mom saying, your dad obviously saying and
I think he played a littleguitar.
So you come from a singingfamily.
But let's shift a little bitand talk a little bit about the
church choir experience versusthe college choir experience,
(29:23):
because there's a differencebetween the two and we're trying
to get our listeners tounderstand the difference
between church choir, collegechoir, school choir, community
choir.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthose differences.
Speaker 5 (29:33):
As you saw it, Okay, so choir, choir experience, and
growing up, when you would jointhe church, they were so used to
just saying, ok, go ahead andjoin the choir, so anyone could
(29:55):
join the choir and just sing.
When I went to Westminster itwas more on a professional level
.
You know they.
Of course we have vocal lessons.
They taught us you know theproper way to sing.
You know they develop.
(30:16):
You know our skills in singing,air training.
You know sight singing.
You know all of that wasinvolved and that was on a
different level as opposed tosinging on, you know, with a
choir church choir.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Now, did you choose to go to college because you
were that enamored with singingand music?
Or did somebody in the churchor your family tell you hey, if
you're going to do this, you gotto kick it up a notch.
What was your motivation?
Speaker 5 (30:46):
I was, you know that, much in love with, you know,
with music, so I wanted topursue that.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
And how much of that experience were you able to
bring back to the church andthen apply those applications
and theories to your churchchoir?
Speaker 5 (31:03):
Oh, most of it you know, learning how to you know
warm up the vocals you know withthe different vocal exercises
that you know I was taught youknow.
So when I went back to thechurch choir I began to you know
(31:24):
, show them how to you know warmup their vocals with the vocal
exercises which they reallyenjoy.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Great.
I imagine the average churchchoir found that to be pretty
new for them and somewhat of anovelty.
Did the newness and the noveltyever wear off in that they
wanted to just forego the choirwarmups and get back to regular
choir rehearsals?
Speaker 5 (31:51):
No, no, they really enjoyed it, they really did.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Good, good.
So when you were in WestminsterCollege, was it your intention
or your plan, or did you give itany thought?
Launch a solo career, pursuethat or get into teaching, or
goal and strengthen the churchchoir?
What was your thought?
Speaker 5 (32:10):
Well, well, I got called back to shallow because
they needed a minister of music.
So I went back to shallow.
They were having, I guess,struggling, you know, with the
choir because the choir had wentfrom.
I forgot how many was on thechoir, but it went down to like
five members and so they reallywanted me to, you know, help to
(32:36):
grow the choir and what have you.
So, you know, I started workingwith their youth.
A matter of fact, what they didwas they combined the choirs
because of the fact that, youknow, everyone was leaving.
So, you know, we started offwith the five.
Okay, work with them.
And then it started growing,you know, people started coming
(32:58):
back to the choir and so I wasthe minister of music of their
mass choir there and it wentfrom there.
We went from five members to100 members.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Wow, by the time I left in 1988, 1988, that is
exponential growth to go fromfive to 100.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
Well, we bear at Shiloh.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
It's great growth, especially in a time when we are
talking so much about how thepandemic has affected the church
choir and it's dwindled.
Thus this podcast.
You guys have had exponentialgrowth in 88 from five to 100.
That's phenomenal.
I think that speaks to yourleadership as well.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
So you know, we, you know, got the choir to like 100
voices and then I think it waslike 1988 is when I left,
because that's when I gotmarried in 1989.
So I was, you know, off doingministry, you know, with my
husband, and then we started aministry and then, you know, I
(34:11):
was working with the choir thereand again started off with a
handful of members and you knowit, really it grew, it took off,
right, you know.
So I've been working and I'mstill working with choirs.
I'm now a seminary Baptistchurch as their minister of
music and that was interesting.
(34:33):
They had about four when Istarted.
They have four choirs and eachchoir they only had a handful of
people, like maybe five here,seven here, one who packed 10.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Those were today's worship teams.
Speaker 5 (34:55):
And then what happened?
The pandemic hit, okay, andthen that really caused you know
well, everything had stopped,okay.
So then when we started comingback, we only had like the just
a handful, like maybe three tofive people show up, so I was
(35:17):
doing most of the singing.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
And then we know that you're capable of carrying that
.
Speaker 5 (35:27):
So, you know, slowly but surely, you know, people
started coming back.
So, you know, I was justlooking at it all and I just
thought to myself well, whydon't we, instead of having four
different choirs with just ahandful of people, why don't we
just combine everyone, okay, andmake it stronger?
So what I did was last year inAugust, I did a praise and
(35:51):
worship workshop for the choirto explain to them, you know,
about praise and worship, toexplain to them why they sing,
to explain to them their role asa choir member, explain to them
about ministry.
And it was, it was very well,you know, received.
(36:14):
So I share with them, I said.
And then, at the end of theworkshop, I said listen, why
don't we do this?
Why don't we, instead of havingall these four you know four
choirs, why don't we just cometogether and form a unity choir?
I said I believe that there'sstrength in numbers.
I've done this before and youwill find that it will grow, it
(36:38):
will get stronger.
You know, I just feel that astrong ministry ministry
department, a music ministrydepartment, along with the
preach word it will call it,will help this church to grow.
I told them.
I said just give me a month.
I said give me a month, let'sjust try this, okay, and then
after the month, then we willrevisit this.
(37:00):
Okay, and then you can sharewith me.
You know your thoughts and whatit is if you want to go back to
, you know, having the fourchoirs or the unity choir.
Well, so, after the workshopthat Sunday, when we came in,
you know when I tell you it waswonderful, it was awesome, it
(37:20):
was explosive, the praise andthe worship went to another
level, okay.
So when the following month hit, okay, before I can even say
anything, they were telling mewe don't want to go back to, you
know, having the four.
We wanted to stay together.
The unity choir.
Even the pastor himself waspleased.
(37:41):
He said I'm liking this unitychoir.
Okay, they are strong, theirvoices are stronger.
They come in with a praise now,because they understand now
about praise and worship, theyunderstand why they praise, they
understand being chosen as avessel of God to minister and
(38:03):
song.
And so, as I share with them,you know, you know, when I
present songs to you, you know,let it minister to you first.
You know, look at the lyrics.
What is it?
What is it saying?
What is it ministering to youand then I try to share with
them to become the song.
I know, in other words, at thatmoment when we, when we stand
(38:25):
before the congregation to tominister the song Okay, you've
already, you know, studied thesong.
Okay, you, you allow the songto minister to you.
Now, all you need to do is justopen your mouth and sing and
let God do the rest.
Okay, just show up and let theHoly Spirit take over.
You know, at that point, and Itell you, it's been, it's just
(38:50):
been amazing, it's been amazing.
We have a great service onSunday.
Okay, we, there was one Sundaywe sing, you know, the song war,
okay, the we sang that a coupleof Sundays ago and the guy that
leads the song, he's been goingthrough different challenges in
(39:11):
his life, okay, and he was inrehearsal.
He was talking about how theenemy is attacking him and
attacking his family and whathave you.
So I told him, I said channelthat in the song, yeah, sing
that song, okay.
And when I tell you, on thatSunday, when we sang that song,
(39:32):
oh, my goodness, okay, a praisejust broke out.
That was just I tell you.
So I, you know, I just love thechoir.
You know the choir singing isvery powerful.
It's, it's healing for thosewho participate in it.
(39:54):
You know who sing on choir.
It's like you come and you feedoff one another, you know yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Dorian, so you said there were four different choirs
and, as we know, I mean, achoir has its own culture.
So do you think that the reasonthat there were these four
different choirs before was thatpeople were comfortable in the
culture of these four choirs,even though there weren't a lot
(40:26):
of people in each of these fourchoirs?
I mean, and so how, how has itbeen sort of trying to make
those four cultures kind of oneculture now and possibly a new
culture?
How how is, how is that?
How's that been?
Speaker 5 (40:45):
Well, they had the inspirational choir, which were
like the older, the olderschools.
Okay, they had the male chorus,they had the what they called
the tribe of Judah, which werelike the younger, the younger
people, and they had the youthchoir.
(41:06):
Okay, those four differentchoirs, so, um, and the other
inspirational choir.
They did songs, they did likemostly hymns, because that's all
they knew.
Okay, I started introducing thesongs that we used to sing way
(41:28):
back, like the Walter Hawkinssongs and, you know, andre
Crouch, and, and it was new tothem.
And I'm saying myself, how isit that you never heard these
songs?
But they never did?
Because they said that I guessthe pastor they had at the time,
I guess before a pastor, stillall he wanted were hymns.
(41:50):
So, even as as as a youth, as ayoung, they sang hymns.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Hmm, you know that's, that's good.
I know Dorian right now istickled pink With the whole idea
of those young people singing.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
We're going to get an argument from.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Coleman.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Yeah.
What do you think that thecombination of all of these
choirs has added to your worshipexperiences and your and just
the culture of your church?
That it was lacking before?
What do you think that thisbrought to the table that you
felt like may have been missingpreviously?
Speaker 5 (42:33):
Honestly, I'm going to say, um, I don't know who,
who they had as the minister ofmusic before you know, who you
know will bring you know thesongs to them.
Yeah, but I'm gonna say with meI am a positive person, a lot
(42:59):
of energy, I'm very expressive.
So bringing that along withintroducing them to the Holy
Spirit that's key.
Like I said, when I did thatworkshop and I explained to them
(43:21):
about praise and worship and Ialso explained to them about the
Holy Spirit and how it was likefar into them, okay, they were
like wow, okay, and like reallyopened them up and so, and doing
all of that, okay, and theyeven said to me wow, now we see
why, you know you're on fire allthe time, why you're so, you
(43:45):
know, energetic.
And it was like now we seewhere it comes from, you know.
So now you know introducingthem to that and now they have
understanding, okay, when theysing songs, even when we sing
hymns, okay, it's different.
Now it's like you know, a lighthas come on.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
I would love to hear that talk sometime.
I wish you had recorded itbecause I'd love to hear it.
Speaker 6 (44:13):
I have a question for you, Tim.
Yes, listen, I come from aculture of 27 choirs in the
church, so I get it 27?
.
Yeah, they just have a lot.
Dorian, I tell you this is old,yeah, at least Well, I'm
exaggerating 27, but at leastseven, yeah, it's a real thing.
(44:35):
So I come from a culture ofthat.
But with that, with that, songselection has been troubling in
that in some cases not in everycase, but in some cases so when
you were able to get them alltogether, bring them all to one
place in your song selection,how did you pick songs?
(44:58):
Because you had such a widerange?
Yes, Singers from, I'll justsay, from zero to perhaps maybe
60.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
That's a lot of numbers Kids from one to 92.
Speaker 6 (45:11):
Right, so what was your process in that?
Speaker 5 (45:18):
First of all, prayer.
I pray all the time, asking theLord, asking the Holy Spirit to
lead and guide and give me thesongs to bring to the choir.
And I tell you, it does.
It just comes and I just stepout there and I introduce the
(45:41):
songs to them and becausethey've never same songs like
gospel songs, like this, justsinging hence they're just
excited, they're like, wow, thisis something new.
And so, again, I pray, ask theHoly Spirit for guidance.
(46:03):
What song should we sing?
And then also, too, I alwaysask the pastor is there
something that you would like tohear?
He will give me the topic ofhis sermon.
I would choose that way, butthey are enjoying this journey.
They are enjoying this journeyof the gospel songs.
(46:28):
I just taught them this oldsong don't wait till the battle
is over.
Oh, we are just loving it.
So right now, that's how I'mmoving, you know, and just
allowing the Holy Spirit to leadand guide.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
And I think the name of the choir is apropos.
It kind of requires them tolive up to the name and
encourages them to make thatjourney pleasant, dorian.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
How about the musicians?
How have they fared?
I mean, did each choir have itsown musicians also, or did the
musicians played for all of them?
Speaker 5 (47:07):
No, it's just me.
It's me.
I have there's a keyboardistand we have a drummer.
That's it, the three of us.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
That's pretty standard in those circles,
Dorian.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
That makes it easy.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (47:20):
Very easy.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
You're in the choir room.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
You know, there's never a shortage of things to
talk about when it comes tochurch choirs and community
choirs.
Schools are a little moreorganized and a little more
structured.
Tell us about the choir at yourschool.
Speaker 5 (47:36):
All right.
So Dorian tried a Christianschool okay, goes from
kindergarten all the way toeighth grade, and so I am the
music teacher there.
When they hired me back in 2017, I started out as the music
teacher.
Now I'm teaching music andBible.
(47:58):
So I basically just, you know,with the music class, I prepare
the students for all thedifferent events that we have
coming up, and that this issomething new to them as well.
(48:18):
From what I understand, before Iwas there the teacher, music
teacher that they had justreally just did, you know, music
theory with them.
They really did not sing asmuch, you know, as they're doing
now.
So, with that the kids they arevery excited with that singing
(48:48):
and also teaching them aboutpraise and worship.
Okay, and they're excited aboutthat.
I tell you, when we have chapelevery Wednesday, the kids are
on fire, okay, and I'm justloving it.
We had a school visit usEastern Christian.
(49:08):
They came to visit us, theycame and did a presentation and
then they asked us to sing aswell and they loved it so much.
Now they're asking me to cometo Eastern Christian, okay, with
a group of kids to sing.
By the fact, the ensemble Istarted an ensemble there where
(49:30):
we take.
You know a few of the kids thathave nice strong voices and we
are, you know, starting to singout.
You know, in the community,sing around in the community.
That's doing well.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
And how long have you been teaching at the school?
Speaker 5 (49:47):
I've been there now for six years.
Great.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Now, it's a Christian school, but what would you say?
Some of the differences arebetween working with the choir
at the school and working withthe choir at the church.
Speaker 5 (50:01):
Well, I mean because they come in and you know you're
dealing with kids so you haveto discipline as well.
So you know they come in.
I introduced the song.
You know that we're singing forthe upcoming Chapel Service and
you know, with the short amountof time that I have, you know I
(50:26):
just introduced them.
You know, introduced the songto them by letting them listen
to it.
You know recording of the songand then you know I just go
right in and teaching them.
You know the song, the way thatthe song goes and the meaning
behind the song.
I also, you know, share withthem.
(50:47):
You know the energy they needto have with the song.
They're very excited.
The children there, they love topraise and worship the Lord.
It's amazing to me because I'mlike you know you have to pull.
You know teak when it comes totrying to get the adults, you
(51:10):
know, to understand aboutsinging and you know energy and
enthusiasm.
But the young people there, youknow, at Dawn Tredder, they
love it, they love it.
I get great feedback from theparents.
They're telling me all the timeabout their children singing
around the house.
I have one parent call me up,called me out of class because
(51:35):
she was crying because she wasjust talking about how her son
was singing the song, you know,during the night, and then in
the morning, told, asked the momto put the recording on, to put
the song on so he can sing it,and then he was just saying you
know, mom, you know, I just feelGod, I feel I feel the Lord,
(51:56):
you know, and it just made hercry because she never heard him
speak in that way before, youknow.
So it's having a great effect,you know, on the young people,
you know, parents.
Speaker 3 (52:08):
Great, that sounds incredible.
I mean, you are surely doingthe Lord's work.
One of my questions is sinceyou spend so much time with
students, what do you see is thebiggest need for students in
your context today?
Like you know, studentsstruggle with different things
(52:30):
they have in different contextsare different.
But what do you say like is theis?
Is what maybe one of yourbiggest challenges?
Or or, what do students needfrom mentors and and maybe the
church or their teachers?
What do they need the mostthese days?
Speaker 5 (52:49):
Love.
Speaker 3 (52:50):
Hmm.
Speaker 5 (52:52):
I'm finding out the kids that come there, they just
love to just hug, hug on me.
You know, ms Wim, can I have ahug?
Can I have a hug?
And there are kids that aregoing through different
challenges at home and when theycome there to the school they
(53:16):
just wanna hug on you.
And I have this one studentthere.
I just found out that he losthis mom last month and so, and I
was wondering, you know why hewas so sad and you know wouldn't
participate, you know.
(53:36):
So you know I will pull himaside, you know, and just you
know, talk with him and you know, let him know that you know
Jesus loved him and that we lovehim here at the school and
anything that he and he reallyappreciated that.
You know, he gave me a big hugand he was like, you know, thank
you, ms Williams, for talkingwith me, spending time with me.
So that's what I'm finding outwith young people.
(53:58):
They want that time, thatattention.
You know, that love.
You know a lot of them aremissing that.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
In sort of a classroom setting.
How are you finding it to teachthe kids to sing with one
another and to sing harmoniesand all because so much of, say,
the music that we hear now isso digitized and compressed and
(54:29):
auto-tuned and everything else Imean.
So the environment that theycome from musically is totally
different from what you'relikely showing them.
How have you been able to sortof overcome some of those
challenges, or what's been yourmethod for helping them to learn
how to sing harmonies andacquire, without all of the
(54:52):
other things that they are usedto listening to?
Speaker 5 (54:56):
Well, actually, I only sing harmony with the
ensemble, because those are thestudents that have, you know,
the stronger voices and you knowmore advanced.
And so, yeah, the younger ones,the other students, you know, I
just let them we sing along,you know, unison.
There are those, though, thathave great ears, okay, and they
(55:20):
can pick out the harmony, youknow.
And so, yeah, I work with theensemble, you know more advanced
with them and learning theharmony.
Speaker 3 (55:31):
I think it's just so cool how they're getting the
classroom experience and thenthey're getting to turn around
and use that experience in theworship setting.
It's like you've got the bestof both worlds going on here,
and then you get to go back andyou get to teach them and say
this is what we just experiencedand this is what we're trying
(55:51):
to do, this is the goal of whatwe're actually did.
That's awesome.
Speaker 6 (55:55):
Tammy, what are the ages?
I know it's a school right, sowhat are the ages that you
primarily work with or you justrun?
Speaker 5 (56:03):
kindergarten, you eight, kindergarten,
kindergarten all the way througheight.
Yes, okay, so that's what?
Five through 12.
12.
13.
Speaker 6 (56:12):
Wow, Five through 12.
So the I guess you said theensemble is where you break out
into harmonies.
So what are their ages?
Speaker 5 (56:25):
I let's see Fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade.
So I would say, what is thatabout?
10 to 12?
10 to 12.
This year, cause, I will onlytake fourth grade through eighth
grade, but this year I chosethree from the third grade.
(56:45):
Because their voices are sostrong, okay, and they are very
well disciplined, okay, and theydo everything that I asked them
to do.
They're right on it, okay, theylearn songs quickly, no problem
.
So I said, let me just takethem, let me just try, try
(57:06):
working with them and begin totrain them.
And they're doing very well,very well.
Speaker 1 (57:13):
You know, and that doesn't surprise me at this age,
because the last generation ortwo has had more access to music
than we've ever had.
You know, with the technologythey walk around with it all the
time where we had to go buy therecord or the LP or the, you
know we had the Walkman so wehad to spend some money and then
the thing was too bulky tocarry around for the most part,
(57:35):
although we tried, and we triedto be cool with it, but that
doesn't surprise me about thisgeneration and their ability to
grab music quickly.
Tammy, it's been great havingyou with us in these last few
minutes.
Tell us about the project andwhere we can find the title the
Lord's Prayer.
Speaker 5 (57:51):
Okay, the Lord's Prayer.
Tammy Williams, the Lord'sPrayer.
It's so funny how all thishappened.
I started receiving a lot ofphone calls to sing at homegoing
services, funerals, and the onesong everyone would request is
the Lord's Prayer.
Now there was a time when, likeyears ago, I would sing the
(58:15):
Lord's Prayer at weddings.
Okay, I would call to sing thatat weddings.
So.
But I started getting calls tosing the Lord's Prayer, you know
, at the homegoing services.
And there was one service whenI left out.
Someone said to me have yourecorded yet, you know?
(58:35):
I said no, I've been thinkingabout it.
And it said well, you know,you're long overdue, you need to
.
You know, you need to record.
I said, okay, you know, youknow, I'll think about this.
So I ran into James Williamsplayed for me, and he was like
when did you go into?
You know record, you know?
(58:56):
And I said you know what I wantto record, you know, I'm just
looking for someone to work with.
So he said, well, wheneveryou're ready, just let me know.
So when he reached out to meagain, I said, okay, yes, I'm
ready.
And he said, okay, so what isthe first song that you want to
record?
I said you know, I've beengetting a lot of requests to
(59:16):
sing the Lord's Prayer, so Ibelieve that that's what you
know God want me to record first.
So that's how it all that cameabout.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
And there you have it .
Friends, you can find TammyWilliams, the Lord's Prayer,
anywhere that you get music, andwe'll be sure to include it in
our show notes.
Coleman is going to take us outwith the thought of the week.
Speaker 3 (59:35):
Thanks, Greg.
So lately at my church we'vebeen going through a Name of God
series.
Of everything that has beensaid over the last several weeks
, one thing sticks out to me themost.
It's that we often call God bynames that are associated with
His actions.
We say Jehovah Jireh, JehovahNisi, Jehovah Shama, Jehovah
(59:58):
Rafa, those kind of things.
Well, here's a little paradigmshift.
While we often see God via Hisactions, they're just pointing
to His identity.
We don't call God Jehovah Jirehbecause he can provide.
We don't call God Jehovah Rafabecause he can heal and so on.
(01:00:20):
We call God these thingsbecause it's who he is.
It's His very nature.
He can't not be a provider, hecan't not be the healer, he
can't not be victorious, hecan't not be with us, he can't
not see us.
It's in His very nature.
A lot of times our worship isdirected at God for what he's
(01:00:43):
done.
But I think about the song byMartha Munizzi and it's been
covered many times by others,but the song is titled Because
of who you Are.
It hits the nail on the headthat God is those things.
He can't be anything apart fromthose things, those ways that
he reveals Himself.
We worship Him because of whohe is.
(01:01:05):
So, as you gather with yourcommunity of faith, let me
encourage you to take some timeto worship God for who he is.
I'm not saying that it's wrongto thank Him for what he's done.
In fact we should.
That's a very, very faithfulresponse to God's actions.
But maybe you need to hear thatGod is who God is and God
(01:01:27):
doesn't change.
Maybe we need to worship Himfor who he is before we even see
Him act in the way that we need.
So let's take this week, let'stake the next little bit of our
lives to worship God because ofwho he is.
Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
And remember, if ever we put the messenger before the
message, we have failed topresent an unblemished gospel.
I'm Greg Thomas.
Join us again right here nextweek in the Choir Room.
Welcome to the choir room, season 1, episode 23 of
the Choir Room Podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Welcome to the choir room.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I'm Greg Thomas, your host, and I'll soon be joined
by my co-host, Dorian Johnson.
Welcome to the choir room.
Vietta Stansu, Pharaa, and whowe like to call the fourth wheel
, Coleman Smart.
If you haven't subscribed tothis podcast already, you really
need to do so or you're goingto miss out on some very
important things coming up inthe next few months.
(00:33):
You can subscribe anywhere thatyou get your podcast and do
share it with any of yoursinging buddies or your choir
friends, and when you do that,be sure to give us a five-star
review and your comments, asthey are welcomed and
appreciated.
You can also leave yourcomments and join the new
conversations happening on ourFacebook page, the Choir Room.
And finally, if you want toensure that you are informed of
(00:55):
all things choir room relatedbeyond the podcast, be sure to
send the words subscribe to theChoir Room at MetroMusic-Artcom.
That is the best way to stay inthe know of all things choir
room related, and that includesgifts, prizes and surprises.
On last week, in episode 22, wehad the privilege of having
(01:17):
David and Elizabeth Norfrey herein the choir room and they
shared quite a few nuggets fromtheir musical experience and
journey.
Here's more of thatconversation that didn't get
aired on episode 22.
Elizabeth, you mentioned theimportance of healthy vocal
technique and the similaritiesbetween that and a fruitful
Christian life.
(01:38):
Talk to us a bit about that.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Right?
Well, so the air is essential.
Air is essential to life andair is essential to singing.
So everything just and theparallel with the spiritual life
is that Ruach, that Holy Spiritis what, that's the gas in the
car that empowers us to live ourChristian life.
But the air is the essential,that's the most important, in
(02:07):
some ways most important part ofthe instrument.
Because you know, if, becausethe air comes up, the vocal
cords, which are muscle right inthe throat, the vocal cords
vibrate, but if they're pushedtogether and if they're
operating on their own strength,being forced, then you're going
(02:27):
to get strain, you're going toget tension.
But if the air comes up andallows the vocal cords to
vibrate, then the tone is freeto resonate through the, you
know, the sinus cavities,through all the resonators of
our head.
And so I had this revelationone day.
(02:47):
This is so much like theChristian life, this is like the
Holy Spirit comes.
This is we yield and allow theair to move, and then there's
fruit, then there's the fruit isallowed to resonate, and when a
voice is resonant, the voicecan be loud.
But if a voice is resonant likean opera singer can hit the
(03:09):
back of the room with no problem, because the opera singer knows
how to wake up those resonatorsso that the sound is the
sympathetic vibrations are goingthrough the sinus cavities and
then out through through thehead and creating, you know,
high frequencies and all of that.
So so it's amazing what thehuman voice can do and it is so
(03:35):
important to pay attention towhat's going on with the
management of the breath.
And I know a lot of teachershave different opinions on you
know, just allow it to be whatit is.
But I think we have to be veryfocused on what our muscles are
doing in terms of using that airand allowing that air to
(03:58):
empower, to come up, and so sousing that air, using these
muscles down here as a bellows,and our focus should be here,
and really we shouldn't reallybe feeling much of anything in
the throat, so that it's free,the air is free to do the moving
of the cords, like I said, andand that we're not like taking
(04:22):
control of it in any way.
So it's just a parable.
And then, of course, you knowthe tongue.
The Bible talks about thetongue as a muscle.
It's not the largest muscle, butI've heard it said that it's
the most powerful muscle in thebody because it you know, gets
the most practice from the timewe start eating, you know it
(04:42):
gets the most practice, and soit's a very it's a very powerful
, and so it needs to be tamed,just like spiritually it needs
to be tamed, it needs to berelaxed, you know it needs to be
properly positioned, properlypositioned to make beautiful
vowel shapes and things likethat.
So so they're just a lot ofparallels.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
That's some good information and you can get more
of it from David and Elizabethat Davidinelizcom that's David
letter.
In ELIZcom and atParacletecollaborativecom You'll
find more information about theservices that they provide and
you can look forward to morehelpful nuggets from them in the
coming weeks.
(05:23):
And stick around, because ourguest contributor today is a
worship leader.
Choir director, musician andsolo artist.
Tammy Williams will be joiningus today right here in the choir
room.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Welcome to the choir room.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Dorian has our hymn of the week.
Thanks, greg.
This week's hymn of the week isMore Love to the O Christ.
Elizabeth Payson Prentice wrotethis hymn and while gifted with
writing stories and poems, sheknew much pain in her life.
Her father died of tuberculosiswhen she was nine, and four
(06:01):
years later she would beconverted to Christ.
In 1845 she would marry GeorgeLouis Prentice, and by 1852 she
had lost two of her threechildren.
One is a newborn and one at agefour.
However, she went on to havethree more healthy children,
despite her own poor health.
(06:21):
While the hymn would bepublished in 1869, it is
believed that in 1856 she pennedthe lyrics to this hymn after
she nearly lost her daughter toan illness.
The hymn's refrain is a plea formore love to be given to Christ
.
And as we consider all thatChrist has given to us in
(06:42):
setting aside the glory ofheaven and humbling himself by
adding a human nature to hisdivine nature, coming to this
earth and walking completelyobedient to God's law while
being reviled by those hecreated and then suffering the
humiliation of the cross andbearing the just wrath of God in
the place of sinners, shouldnot our response be an offering
(07:05):
of our love to God.
But this hymn indicates thetension of the Christian life in
that while we love God, we donot love him as fully as we are.
So this hymn truly is adeclaration of the Christian's
desire to love God more.
Verse one we read the lyricsMore love to thee, o Christ,
(07:27):
more love to thee.
Here thou the prayer I make onbended knee.
This is my earnest plea.
More love, o Christ, to thee,more love to thee, more love to
thee.
Verse two the hymn writerreminds us of what our life
(07:48):
before Christ was like when weread Once earthly joy I crave,
sought peace and rest.
And now that we are in Christwe can truly say Now, thee alone
I seek, give what is best.
This all my prayer shall bemore love, o Christ, to thee,
more love to thee, more love.
(08:10):
This is my earnest plea.
Verse three points us to thework of trials and difficult
(08:32):
circumstances in the life of theChristian to increase our trust
and dependence on the.
Lord Says Let sorrow do itswork, send grief and pain.
Sweet are thy messengers, sweetthey refrain when they can sing
with me.
More love, o Christ, to thee,more love to thee, more love to
(08:58):
thee.
And, as many hymns point usultimately to the fact that we
will all come face to face withthe Lord, and unless he tarries,
unless he returns, and if hetarries, we will all die and we
will all come to see him face toface through death.
And so the last verse says Thenshall my latest breath whisper
(09:21):
thy praise.
This be the parting cry.
My heart shall raise this still.
Its prayer shall be more love,o Christ to thee, more love to
thee, more love to thee.
In Deuteronomy 6.5 we read youshall love the Lord, your God,
with all your heart, with allyour soul and with all your
(09:44):
might.
Because of our sin, we, whohave even been redeemed by the
Lord, cannot love him as we lovehim.
But with this hymn give voiceto our desire to love God more
today and to seek to love himmore each day, more than the
last.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
O Christ to thee, more love to thee.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Welcome to the quiet room.
Beedah is going to challenge usagain with another CRQ.
Speaker 6 (10:31):
Thanks, greg.
Tonight is our usual CRQ andtonight we have the question how
can the church make theprofessional singer more
welcomed about their profession?
How can the church make theprofessional singer more
welcomed about their profession?
I will say this this questionkind of stumped me for a second
(10:57):
because I wasn't sure.
I wasn't sure professionalmeaning what type of music
exactly that I'm thinking thatthe church would frown on.
You know like what kind of?
I had to put on my thinking capfor a second of what this was
really about here, what thebackstory to this question was,
(11:19):
and thinking about it.
And when you say professionalsinger, it's so interesting
because there's someprofessional gospel singers and
then their professional secularsingers and I immediately in
that went to the secular worldbecause I don't know, maybe
y'all can correct me on this I'mhoping that there's no gospel
(11:40):
music.
That just would not be totallyunacceptable in the church.
I really want to believe that.
I know a lot of singers who doboth and who attend churches.
They do.
They don't necessarily sing inthe, maybe the clubs or the bars
, but they do sing in areaswhere it's.
(12:00):
They don't sing gospel music, itsecular, inspirational music,
whatever it is they put to itnow, whatever the the adjectives
that they put to the music now,but they also function in their
churches as well and thechurches seem to what I do know.
The churches seem to be okaywith what it is they do.
(12:22):
I have not encountered asituation where the church did
not accept them in theirprofession.
Maybe you guys had, so Icouldn't really speak to the
church not being more welcome.
I can only say that I've neverseen that happen, but maybe,
again, you guys have probablyviewed this or have experienced
(12:45):
this so what say you?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
as the country boy always says, context is
everything.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And my mind actually immediately went to an interest
of mine, which is opera.
And you think of a professionalopera singer who comes into a
choir and just by their training, their voice overpowers other
(13:17):
people.
Their people feel intimidatedsinging with them because they
know that they are trainedprofessionally.
And so I think it's just one ofthose things where, if you have
a different style, or cominginto a choir that maybe sings
(13:39):
music that's of a differentgenre than your profession, that
you have to realize that youmay have to and this is
something that we discussedbefore you may have to adjust
what you're doing, especiallywith opera.
You're out there, typicallyYou're trying to belt over a
(13:59):
full orchestra and everythingelse, and in a choir setting
you're supposed to be blendingin with others.
And so that's where my mindwent, actually, because I have
heard and even have seeninstances where just opera
singers have struggled in choirsituations because of just their
(14:20):
training and the strength oftheir voice.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I think there are so many different ways of
interpreting this question, sowhoever asked maybe will hit
what you meant by that.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I thought you were going to say call us and tell us
what you really meant.
Well, you could do that.
You could do that.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
But between the five of us maybe we'll hit the actual
thing that you're talking about, Mieta.
I have been in someenvironments that are very
protective of their platform,that if someone is a
professional musician and theyplay in contexts that aren't
(15:04):
honoring to God sometimes it'slike in bars or in clubs or then
they might make well, let'sjust say they probably won't be
playing on a regular bassistbecause of that aspect of their
(15:27):
professional life.
And I've seen some churchesmake their platform a mission
field sometimes.
So you never know.
I've seen some people say, well, this is how we're going to
connect them to Jesus.
So I don't know.
It depends on, again, theleadership of your pastoral team
(15:48):
and where your heart is.
But the way that I firstinterpreted this question, I
thought about a professionalmusician coming into our
church's service for the firsttime.
I think the best way toimmediately make a professional
musician feel welcome is to haveexcellent music, music that is
(16:17):
not lacking in practice andpreparation.
But when a professional walksin, they can say, oh, these
people really care about this.
They care about this as much asI care about this Sometimes.
There's a place for me here,because a lot of times churches
(16:37):
will pander to the vast majorityof the congregation who is not
musically savvy, who they don'thave a degree, they don't have a
lot of training, and they'llget them.
That's about 90% of people.
But there's that 10% of peoplewho know what's going on, who
have the degrees, have sunginquires, that kind of thing,
(16:58):
and a lot of times we think, oh,we've got the 90%, we're doing
fine.
But if you strive forexcellence and you have an
excellent music program, you getthat 10% and all 90% that come
behind them too.
So I think it's important tocreate an environment where
(17:19):
professional musicians know thatwhat's going on on the platform
, that we take it seriously,Because I feel like that
connects them more.
If I was as a professionalmusician, if I walked into a
church where I felt like theydon't take their music and their
(17:40):
ministry seriously, then Iprobably wouldn't be as inclined
to stick around.
So that was where my mind wentfirst.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, I think there are a number of things in this
question and again I think allof us will hit on something that
the writer can take away.
But when I hear how can thechurch be more receptive?
It is a blanket statement andit unfortunately is not fair to
the church at large.
(18:10):
I think the question probablyis being more directed to the
people in leadership in themusic ministry or even people in
the choir, where those morepersonal experiences may have
happened and so we can't say thechurch is not receptive.
In fact, when it comes togospel music or church choirs in
particular, my experience andmy opinion is that the church
(18:34):
has been a little too receptiveover the years and accepting and
allowing any and everybody, andso there's been a big demand
and a big push on talent and notenough demand on righteousness,
accountability and excellence,and I think the spirit of
excellence is a result of thefirst two, the righteousness and
accountability.
So we have to have those things.
(18:56):
Now to Dorian's point.
I think the expectation of theprofessional singer might be
levied upon the church that itresponds the same way that the
theater or the club or thewedding party does, and that's
just not the case.
There are plenty of Christianmusicians and singers who
perform outside of the church,but the expectation in terms of
(19:19):
being receptive may not be fairto the church, because the world
responds differently.
They're looking for somethingdifferent, you know, and so
we're talking two differentthings.
So the presentation of themusic then has to be different
from that which you do somewhereelse, otherwise you're not as
(19:39):
professional as you thought youwere.
Oh, and I don't mean that in anegative.
I just mean that professionalsinger is going to know what to
expect from that choir or fromthat church, and they're not
going to levy the expectationsin terms of the response to
their singing on the churchchoir or on the church
(20:00):
congregation.
Speaker 6 (20:01):
There you have it.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Well, I think it's more about realistic
expectations from theprofessional singer than it is
the church not being morereceptive.
Now I've said this many times,and you guys can testify to this
, that way too often the churchhas acted out of its desperation
to have a thriving musicministry and therefore have
(20:27):
chosen talent over character,and it has just caused a mess in
a lot of congregations.
And so when the church pursuestalent over righteousness and
accountability, and characterand excellence, it goes back to
that statement that I always usewhen we close out this podcast,
if ever, we put the messengerbefore the message, and that's
(20:50):
what many churches,unfortunately, have done with
their church choirs.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Well, I think it's important to note maybe
ministries, platform ministriesor whatever have maybe been too
receptive.
I don't know.
I mean, yeah, we always need tobe receptive, but when it comes
to sharing our platform, that,yeah, that's.
Speaker 6 (21:15):
So you know, so I'm listening to you all on and I
something really weird justpopped in my head attitude, the
word attitude popped in my headand when you're dealing
sometimes I now have encounteredthis like there's a person who
may come into a particular groupwho is a professional singer,
might have done a little morethan many of us have.
(21:36):
Their attitude when they cameinto that particular group, well
, let's just say they were foulright.
So it did not, it didn't mixwell with the others because
they had the, they had theunderstanding that I'm doing
more than you.
(21:57):
You know, I've been in placesthat you have not been.
And when they came in with thatattitude, those of them who
were already in place and doing,and you know, sacrificing and
doing all of that kind of Seanon a level, you know, because
the attitude of that particularprofessional singer and they
(22:19):
were a professional singer justwasn't something that they
wanted to be a part of.
So I also, I believe that youcan be a professional singer,
but then there's a particularspecific attitude you need to
have when you're coming into asetting that doesn't necessarily
know who you are and may notknow in entirety what you're
(22:43):
capable of, because just becauseyou say you're a professional
singer, it really doesn't mean awhole lot to us unless you
start to show improvement.
But if your attitude is one ofI am already better because of
my resume, then yeah, you mayfind that a bit difficult to
kind of fit in, to kind ofacclimate to what's going on,
(23:06):
because your mindset, yourmindset, can sometimes be a
little off-putting to others.
Now that I have seen.
But again, the church itselfdid not make that individual or
individuals feel unwelcomed.
They were still welcome.
But in that particular placethat they were trying to get in
(23:31):
there was some struggle there.
But it was not because theyweren't capable, it was just
their attitude about what it isthey could do.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah yeah, let's get Tammy in here, and then we're
going to hear from her a littlebit more in a minute.
Tammy.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
I agree with my brother here that was speaking
about like an opera singercoming into a gospel choir, that
just doesn't.
You know.
You know a jail well.
(24:06):
But as a professional singercoming into a new group, me
personally I would just like layback a little bit and just to
see you know how they operateand you know, and you know their
format and how they sing, youknow, just to see, you know how
(24:28):
everything is, you know howeverything is going, how
everything is flowing, just sothat it will be easy for me to
you know what I mean to, I guess, gel with everyone, right, yeah
, I just feel that if you justcome, if you're new, coming in,
(24:50):
and then right off the back,okay, you just jump right in
without you know feeling theflow or seeing the flow of
everything, it will make it hard, you know, for you.
But just coming in, you're new,coming in, it's good to just
lay back a little bit just tosee how everything you know is
(25:12):
flowing.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Yeah, yeah, you know.
That's one of the reasons wewould conduct interviews before
the auditions so that we canweed out or at least identify
the attitudes.
And even then, once you passedthe audition, I would ask people
to sit in for consecutiverehearsals, because then that
told me a whole lot about theircommitment.
If you want to be a part of thechoir, then you have to be able
(25:33):
to commit to rehearsals.
But this was also anopportunity to accomplish a
couple of other things.
One you get to learn some ofthe music.
Secondly, you get to decidewhether or not you really like
these people.
Our guest contributor tonightChoir Director, Worship Leader,
(25:56):
Musician and solo recordedartist.
You just heard from her duringour CRQ with you.
Welcome, Tammy Williams.
Welcome.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Welcome.
Speaker 5 (26:07):
Here.
Happy to be here, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
We have sang together in church choirs, community
choirs worked with school choirs, did some community work, did
some recording that we're goingto have to talk about and get a
little laughter in a littlelater.
Mietta knew that we had a guesttonight but she didn't know who
.
But we both grew up playing andsinging with you and knowing
you and your family.
(26:30):
Tell our listening audience alittle bit about the Tammy we
grew up knowing.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
Well, I've been singing since I was five years
old.
My dad would have my sister andI singing.
Saturday was our rehearsal time.
He would just have us singingsongs over and over.
Okay, sing it again.
(26:55):
Okay, sing it again.
So that's where I got my start.
We got older and then my dadformed a family group called the
Williams Singers and we used togo around the city singing all
(27:15):
over.
It was my dad, my mom, mybrother, sister, my cousin and
my uncle, and so that's where Igot my start.
Then joined the youth choir atthe New shallow missionary
church and sang on the youthchoir.
(27:38):
They ended up becoming theyouth director, minister of
music, at the age of, I'm goingto say, 13, 12 or 13.
Okay, so that's where I got mystart.
Then just singing all throughmy life.
(28:00):
And then I went to Westminsterchoir college Okay, went there.
You know, he sang.
And here I am now.
Still singing, still singing 54years.
Wow, 54.
Yeah, I was calculating thatthe other day and I was like wow
(28:24):
.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
So you started teaching choir at the age of 13
at the shallow missionaryBaptist church, and that would
have been under the late DrBlakely.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
And I remember that clearly because I used to come
there quite often.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Now your dad.
I remember pretty well he wasquite the guy and quite
intimidating he was.
He meant business.
He reminds me of the, of the ofthe wineings Papa.
You know he was just, he justmeant business.
(29:01):
It was it was God's businessand that was it, you know.
But you come from a singingfamily, your sister saying, your
brother saying, your mom saying, your dad obviously saying and
I think he played a littleguitar.
So you come from a singingfamily.
But let's shift a little bitand talk a little bit about the
church choir experience versusthe college choir experience,
(29:23):
because there's a differencebetween the two and we're trying
to get our listeners tounderstand the difference
between church choir, collegechoir, school choir, community
choir.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthose differences.
Speaker 5 (29:33):
As you saw it, Okay, so choir, choir experience, and
growing up, when you would jointhe church, they were so used to
just saying, ok, go ahead andjoin the choir, so anyone could
(29:55):
join the choir and just sing.
When I went to Westminster itwas more on a professional level
.
You know they.
Of course we have vocal lessons.
They taught us you know theproper way to sing.
You know they develop.
(30:16):
You know our skills in singing,air training.
You know sight singing.
You know all of that wasinvolved and that was on a
different level as opposed tosinging on, you know, with a
choir church choir.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Now, did you choose to go to college because you
were that enamored with singingand music?
Or did somebody in the churchor your family tell you hey, if
you're going to do this, you gotto kick it up a notch.
What was your motivation?
Speaker 5 (30:46):
I was, you know that, much in love with, you know,
with music, so I wanted topursue that.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
And how much of that experience were you able to
bring back to the church andthen apply those applications
and theories to your churchchoir?
Speaker 5 (31:03):
Oh, most of it you know, learning how to you know
warm up the vocals you know withthe different vocal exercises
that you know I was taught youknow.
So when I went back to thechurch choir I began to you know
(31:24):
, show them how to you know warmup their vocals with the vocal
exercises which they reallyenjoy.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Great.
I imagine the average churchchoir found that to be pretty
new for them and somewhat of anovelty.
Did the newness and the noveltyever wear off in that they
wanted to just forego the choirwarmups and get back to regular
choir rehearsals?
Speaker 5 (31:51):
No, no, they really enjoyed it, they really did.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Good, good.
So when you were in WestminsterCollege, was it your intention
or your plan, or did you give itany thought?
Launch a solo career, pursuethat or get into teaching, or
goal and strengthen the churchchoir?
What was your thought?
Speaker 5 (32:10):
Well, well, I got called back to shallow because
they needed a minister of music.
So I went back to shallow.
They were having, I guess,struggling, you know, with the
choir because the choir had wentfrom.
I forgot how many was on thechoir, but it went down to like
five members and so they reallywanted me to, you know, help to
(32:36):
grow the choir and what have you.
So, you know, I started workingwith their youth.
A matter of fact, what they didwas they combined the choirs
because of the fact that, youknow, everyone was leaving.
So, you know, we started offwith the five.
Okay, work with them.
And then it started growing,you know, people started coming
(32:58):
back to the choir and so I wasthe minister of music of their
mass choir there and it wentfrom there.
We went from five members to100 members.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Wow, by the time I left in 1988, 1988, that is
exponential growth to go fromfive to 100.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
Well, we bear at Shiloh.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
It's great growth, especially in a time when we are
talking so much about how thepandemic has affected the church
choir and it's dwindled.
Thus this podcast.
You guys have had exponentialgrowth in 88 from five to 100.
That's phenomenal.
I think that speaks to yourleadership as well.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
So you know, we, you know, got the choir to like 100
voices and then I think it waslike 1988 is when I left,
because that's when I gotmarried in 1989.
So I was, you know, off doingministry, you know, with my
husband, and then we started aministry and then, you know, I
(34:11):
was working with the choir thereand again started off with a
handful of members and you knowit, really it grew, it took off,
right, you know.
So I've been working and I'mstill working with choirs.
I'm now a seminary Baptistchurch as their minister of
music and that was interesting.
(34:33):
They had about four when Istarted.
They have four choirs and eachchoir they only had a handful of
people, like maybe five here,seven here, one who packed 10.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Those were today's worship teams.
Speaker 5 (34:55):
And then what happened?
The pandemic hit, okay, andthen that really caused you know
well, everything had stopped,okay.
So then when we started comingback, we only had like the just
a handful, like maybe three tofive people show up, so I was
(35:17):
doing most of the singing.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
And then we know that you're capable of carrying that
.
Speaker 5 (35:27):
So, you know, slowly but surely, you know, people
started coming back.
So, you know, I was justlooking at it all and I just
thought to myself well, whydon't we, instead of having four
different choirs with just ahandful of people, why don't we
just combine everyone, okay, andmake it stronger?
So what I did was last year inAugust, I did a praise and
(35:51):
worship workshop for the choirto explain to them, you know,
about praise and worship, toexplain to them why they sing,
to explain to them their role asa choir member, explain to them
about ministry.
And it was, it was very well,you know, received.
(36:14):
So I share with them, I said.
And then, at the end of theworkshop, I said listen, why
don't we do this?
Why don't we, instead of havingall these four you know four
choirs, why don't we just cometogether and form a unity choir?
I said I believe that there'sstrength in numbers.
I've done this before and youwill find that it will grow, it
(36:38):
will get stronger.
You know, I just feel that astrong ministry ministry
department, a music ministrydepartment, along with the
preach word it will call it,will help this church to grow.
I told them.
I said just give me a month.
I said give me a month, let'sjust try this, okay, and then
after the month, then we willrevisit this.
(37:00):
Okay, and then you can sharewith me.
You know your thoughts and whatit is if you want to go back to
, you know, having the fourchoirs or the unity choir.
Well, so, after the workshopthat Sunday, when we came in,
you know when I tell you it waswonderful, it was awesome, it
(37:20):
was explosive, the praise andthe worship went to another
level, okay.
So when the following month hit, okay, before I can even say
anything, they were telling mewe don't want to go back to, you
know, having the four.
We wanted to stay together.
The unity choir.
Even the pastor himself waspleased.
(37:41):
He said I'm liking this unitychoir.
Okay, they are strong, theirvoices are stronger.
They come in with a praise now,because they understand now
about praise and worship, theyunderstand why they praise, they
understand being chosen as avessel of God to minister and
(38:03):
song.
And so, as I share with them,you know, you know, when I
present songs to you, you know,let it minister to you first.
You know, look at the lyrics.
What is it?
What is it saying?
What is it ministering to youand then I try to share with
them to become the song.
I know, in other words, at thatmoment when we, when we stand
(38:25):
before the congregation to tominister the song Okay, you've
already, you know, studied thesong.
Okay, you, you allow the songto minister to you.
Now, all you need to do is justopen your mouth and sing and
let God do the rest.
Okay, just show up and let theHoly Spirit take over.
You know, at that point, and Itell you, it's been, it's just
(38:50):
been amazing, it's been amazing.
We have a great service onSunday.
Okay, we, there was one Sundaywe sing, you know, the song war,
okay, the we sang that a coupleof Sundays ago and the guy that
leads the song, he's been goingthrough different challenges in
(39:11):
his life, okay, and he was inrehearsal.
He was talking about how theenemy is attacking him and
attacking his family and whathave you.
So I told him, I said channelthat in the song, yeah, sing
that song, okay.
And when I tell you, on thatSunday, when we sang that song,
(39:32):
oh, my goodness, okay, a praisejust broke out.
That was just I tell you.
So I, you know, I just love thechoir.
You know the choir singing isvery powerful.
It's, it's healing for thosewho participate in it.
(39:54):
You know who sing on choir.
It's like you come and you feedoff one another, you know yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Dorian, so you said there were four different choirs
and, as we know, I mean, achoir has its own culture.
So do you think that the reasonthat there were these four
different choirs before was thatpeople were comfortable in the
culture of these four choirs,even though there weren't a lot
(40:26):
of people in each of these fourchoirs?
I mean, and so how, how has itbeen sort of trying to make
those four cultures kind of oneculture now and possibly a new
culture?
How how is, how is that?
How's that been?
Speaker 5 (40:45):
Well, they had the inspirational choir, which were
like the older, the olderschools.
Okay, they had the male chorus,they had the what they called
the tribe of Judah, which werelike the younger, the younger
people, and they had the youthchoir.
(41:06):
Okay, those four differentchoirs, so, um, and the other
inspirational choir.
They did songs, they did likemostly hymns, because that's all
they knew.
Okay, I started introducing thesongs that we used to sing way
(41:28):
back, like the Walter Hawkinssongs and, you know, andre
Crouch, and, and it was new tothem.
And I'm saying myself, how isit that you never heard these
songs?
But they never did?
Because they said that I guessthe pastor they had at the time,
I guess before a pastor, stillall he wanted were hymns.
(41:50):
So, even as as as a youth, as ayoung, they sang hymns.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Hmm, you know that's, that's good.
I know Dorian right now istickled pink With the whole idea
of those young people singing.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
We're going to get an argument from.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Coleman.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Yeah.
What do you think that thecombination of all of these
choirs has added to your worshipexperiences and your and just
the culture of your church?
That it was lacking before?
What do you think that thisbrought to the table that you
felt like may have been missingpreviously?
Speaker 5 (42:33):
Honestly, I'm going to say, um, I don't know who,
who they had as the minister ofmusic before you know, who you
know will bring you know thesongs to them.
Yeah, but I'm gonna say with meI am a positive person, a lot
(42:59):
of energy, I'm very expressive.
So bringing that along withintroducing them to the Holy
Spirit that's key.
Like I said, when I did thatworkshop and I explained to them
(43:21):
about praise and worship and Ialso explained to them about the
Holy Spirit and how it was likefar into them, okay, they were
like wow, okay, and like reallyopened them up and so, and doing
all of that, okay, and theyeven said to me wow, now we see
why, you know you're on fire allthe time, why you're so, you
(43:45):
know, energetic.
And it was like now we seewhere it comes from, you know.
So now you know introducingthem to that and now they have
understanding, okay, when theysing songs, even when we sing
hymns, okay, it's different.
Now it's like you know, a lighthas come on.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
I would love to hear that talk sometime.
I wish you had recorded itbecause I'd love to hear it.
Speaker 6 (44:13):
I have a question for you, Tim.
Yes, listen, I come from aculture of 27 choirs in the
church, so I get it 27?
.
Yeah, they just have a lot.
Dorian, I tell you this is old,yeah, at least Well, I'm
exaggerating 27, but at leastseven, yeah, it's a real thing.
(44:35):
So I come from a culture ofthat.
But with that, with that, songselection has been troubling in
that in some cases not in everycase, but in some cases so when
you were able to get them alltogether, bring them all to one
place in your song selection,how did you pick songs?
(44:58):
Because you had such a widerange?
Yes, Singers from, I'll justsay, from zero to perhaps maybe
60.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
That's a lot of numbers Kids from one to 92.
Speaker 6 (45:11):
Right, so what was your process in that?
Speaker 5 (45:18):
First of all, prayer.
I pray all the time, asking theLord, asking the Holy Spirit to
lead and guide and give me thesongs to bring to the choir.
And I tell you, it does.
It just comes and I just stepout there and I introduce the
(45:41):
songs to them and becausethey've never same songs like
gospel songs, like this, justsinging hence they're just
excited, they're like, wow, thisis something new.
And so, again, I pray, ask theHoly Spirit for guidance.
(46:03):
What song should we sing?
And then also, too, I alwaysask the pastor is there
something that you would like tohear?
He will give me the topic ofhis sermon.
I would choose that way, butthey are enjoying this journey.
They are enjoying this journeyof the gospel songs.
(46:28):
I just taught them this oldsong don't wait till the battle
is over.
Oh, we are just loving it.
So right now, that's how I'mmoving, you know, and just
allowing the Holy Spirit to leadand guide.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
And I think the name of the choir is apropos.
It kind of requires them tolive up to the name and
encourages them to make thatjourney pleasant, dorian.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
How about the musicians?
How have they fared?
I mean, did each choir have itsown musicians also, or did the
musicians played for all of them?
Speaker 5 (47:07):
No, it's just me.
It's me.
I have there's a keyboardistand we have a drummer.
That's it, the three of us.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
That's pretty standard in those circles,
Dorian.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
That makes it easy.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (47:20):
Very easy.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
You're in the choir room.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
You know, there's never a shortage of things to
talk about when it comes tochurch choirs and community
choirs.
Schools are a little moreorganized and a little more
structured.
Tell us about the choir at yourschool.
Speaker 5 (47:36):
All right.
So Dorian tried a Christianschool okay, goes from
kindergarten all the way toeighth grade, and so I am the
music teacher there.
When they hired me back in 2017, I started out as the music
teacher.
Now I'm teaching music andBible.
(47:58):
So I basically just, you know,with the music class, I prepare
the students for all thedifferent events that we have
coming up, and that this issomething new to them as well.
(48:18):
From what I understand, before Iwas there the teacher, music
teacher that they had justreally just did, you know, music
theory with them.
They really did not sing asmuch, you know, as they're doing
now.
So, with that the kids they arevery excited with that singing
(48:48):
and also teaching them aboutpraise and worship.
Okay, and they're excited aboutthat.
I tell you, when we have chapelevery Wednesday, the kids are
on fire, okay, and I'm justloving it.
We had a school visit usEastern Christian.
(49:08):
They came to visit us, theycame and did a presentation and
then they asked us to sing aswell and they loved it so much.
Now they're asking me to cometo Eastern Christian, okay, with
a group of kids to sing.
By the fact, the ensemble Istarted an ensemble there where
(49:30):
we take.
You know a few of the kids thathave nice strong voices and we
are, you know, starting to singout.
You know, in the community,sing around in the community.
That's doing well.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
And how long have you been teaching at the school?
Speaker 5 (49:47):
I've been there now for six years.
Great.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Now, it's a Christian school, but what would you say?
Some of the differences arebetween working with the choir
at the school and working withthe choir at the church.
Speaker 5 (50:01):
Well, I mean because they come in and you know you're
dealing with kids so you haveto discipline as well.
So you know they come in.
I introduced the song.
You know that we're singing forthe upcoming Chapel Service and
you know, with the short amountof time that I have, you know I
(50:26):
just introduced them.
You know, introduced the songto them by letting them listen
to it.
You know recording of the songand then you know I just go
right in and teaching them.
You know the song, the way thatthe song goes and the meaning
behind the song.
I also, you know, share withthem.
(50:47):
You know the energy they needto have with the song.
They're very excited.
The children there, they love topraise and worship the Lord.
It's amazing to me because I'mlike you know you have to pull.
You know teak when it comes totrying to get the adults, you
(51:10):
know, to understand aboutsinging and you know energy and
enthusiasm.
But the young people there, youknow, at Dawn Tredder, they
love it, they love it.
I get great feedback from theparents.
They're telling me all the timeabout their children singing
around the house.
I have one parent call me up,called me out of class because
(51:35):
she was crying because she wasjust talking about how her son
was singing the song, you know,during the night, and then in
the morning, told, asked the momto put the recording on, to put
the song on so he can sing it,and then he was just saying you
know, mom, you know, I just feelGod, I feel I feel the Lord,
(51:56):
you know, and it just made hercry because she never heard him
speak in that way before, youknow.
So it's having a great effect,you know, on the young people,
you know, parents.
Speaker 3 (52:08):
Great, that sounds incredible.
I mean, you are surely doingthe Lord's work.
One of my questions is sinceyou spend so much time with
students, what do you see is thebiggest need for students in
your context today?
Like you know, studentsstruggle with different things
(52:30):
they have in different contextsare different.
But what do you say like is theis?
Is what maybe one of yourbiggest challenges?
Or or, what do students needfrom mentors and and maybe the
church or their teachers?
What do they need the mostthese days?
Speaker 5 (52:49):
Love.
Speaker 3 (52:50):
Hmm.
Speaker 5 (52:52):
I'm finding out the kids that come there, they just
love to just hug, hug on me.
You know, ms Wim, can I have ahug?
Can I have a hug?
And there are kids that aregoing through different
challenges at home and when theycome there to the school they
(53:16):
just wanna hug on you.
And I have this one studentthere.
I just found out that he losthis mom last month and so, and I
was wondering, you know why hewas so sad and you know wouldn't
participate, you know.
(53:36):
So you know I will pull himaside, you know, and just you
know, talk with him and you know, let him know that you know
Jesus loved him and that we lovehim here at the school and
anything that he and he reallyappreciated that.
You know, he gave me a big hugand he was like, you know, thank
you, ms Williams, for talkingwith me, spending time with me.
So that's what I'm finding outwith young people.
(53:58):
They want that time, thatattention.
You know, that love.
You know a lot of them aremissing that.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
In sort of a classroom setting.
How are you finding it to teachthe kids to sing with one
another and to sing harmoniesand all because so much of, say,
the music that we hear now isso digitized and compressed and
(54:29):
auto-tuned and everything else Imean.
So the environment that theycome from musically is totally
different from what you'relikely showing them.
How have you been able to sortof overcome some of those
challenges, or what's been yourmethod for helping them to learn
how to sing harmonies andacquire, without all of the
(54:52):
other things that they are usedto listening to?
Speaker 5 (54:56):
Well, actually, I only sing harmony with the
ensemble, because those are thestudents that have, you know,
the stronger voices and you knowmore advanced.
And so, yeah, the younger ones,the other students, you know, I
just let them we sing along,you know, unison.
There are those, though, thathave great ears, okay, and they
(55:20):
can pick out the harmony, youknow.
And so, yeah, I work with theensemble, you know more advanced
with them and learning theharmony.
Speaker 3 (55:31):
I think it's just so cool how they're getting the
classroom experience and thenthey're getting to turn around
and use that experience in theworship setting.
It's like you've got the bestof both worlds going on here,
and then you get to go back andyou get to teach them and say
this is what we just experiencedand this is what we're trying
(55:51):
to do, this is the goal of whatwe're actually did.
That's awesome.
Speaker 6 (55:55):
Tammy, what are the ages?
I know it's a school right, sowhat are the ages that you
primarily work with or you justrun?
Speaker 5 (56:03):
kindergarten, you eight, kindergarten,
kindergarten all the way througheight.
Yes, okay, so that's what?
Five through 12.
12.
13.
Speaker 6 (56:12):
Wow, Five through 12.
So the I guess you said theensemble is where you break out
into harmonies.
So what are their ages?
Speaker 5 (56:25):
I let's see Fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade.
So I would say, what is thatabout?
10 to 12?
10 to 12.
This year, cause, I will onlytake fourth grade through eighth
grade, but this year I chosethree from the third grade.
(56:45):
Because their voices are sostrong, okay, and they are very
well disciplined, okay, and theydo everything that I asked them
to do.
They're right on it, okay, theylearn songs quickly, no problem
.
So I said, let me just takethem, let me just try, try
(57:06):
working with them and begin totrain them.
And they're doing very well,very well.
Speaker 1 (57:13):
You know, and that doesn't surprise me at this age,
because the last generation ortwo has had more access to music
than we've ever had.
You know, with the technologythey walk around with it all the
time where we had to go buy therecord or the LP or the, you
know we had the Walkman so wehad to spend some money and then
the thing was too bulky tocarry around for the most part,
(57:35):
although we tried, and we triedto be cool with it, but that
doesn't surprise me about thisgeneration and their ability to
grab music quickly.
Tammy, it's been great havingyou with us in these last few
minutes.
Tell us about the project andwhere we can find the title the
Lord's Prayer.
Speaker 5 (57:51):
Okay, the Lord's Prayer.
Tammy Williams, the Lord'sPrayer.
It's so funny how all thishappened.
I started receiving a lot ofphone calls to sing at homegoing
services, funerals, and the onesong everyone would request is
the Lord's Prayer.
Now there was a time when, likeyears ago, I would sing the
(58:15):
Lord's Prayer at weddings.
Okay, I would call to sing thatat weddings.
So.
But I started getting calls tosing the Lord's Prayer, you know
, at the homegoing services.
And there was one service whenI left out.
Someone said to me have yourecorded yet, you know?
(58:35):
I said no, I've been thinkingabout it.
And it said well, you know,you're long overdue, you need to
.
You know, you need to record.
I said, okay, you know, youknow, I'll think about this.
So I ran into James Williamsplayed for me, and he was like
when did you go into?
You know record, you know?
(58:56):
And I said you know what I wantto record, you know, I'm just
looking for someone to work with.
So he said, well, wheneveryou're ready, just let me know.
So when he reached out to meagain, I said, okay, yes, I'm
ready.
And he said, okay, so what isthe first song that you want to
record?
I said you know, I've beengetting a lot of requests to
(59:16):
sing the Lord's Prayer, so Ibelieve that that's what you
know God want me to record first.
So that's how it all that cameabout.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
And there you have it .
Friends, you can find TammyWilliams, the Lord's Prayer,
anywhere that you get music, andwe'll be sure to include it in
our show notes.
Coleman is going to take us outwith the thought of the week.
Speaker 3 (59:35):
Thanks, Greg.
So lately at my church we'vebeen going through a Name of God
series.
Of everything that has beensaid over the last several weeks
, one thing sticks out to me themost.
It's that we often call God bynames that are associated with
His actions.
We say Jehovah Jireh, JehovahNisi, Jehovah Shama, Jehovah
(59:58):
Rafa, those kind of things.
Well, here's a little paradigmshift.
While we often see God via Hisactions, they're just pointing
to His identity.
We don't call God Jehovah Jirehbecause he can provide.
We don't call God Jehovah Rafabecause he can heal and so on.
(01:00:20):
We call God these thingsbecause it's who he is.
It's His very nature.
He can't not be a provider, hecan't not be the healer, he
can't not be victorious, hecan't not be with us, he can't
not see us.
It's in His very nature.
A lot of times our worship isdirected at God for what he's
(01:00:43):
done.
But I think about the song byMartha Munizzi and it's been
covered many times by others,but the song is titled Because
of who you Are.
It hits the nail on the headthat God is those things.
He can't be anything apart fromthose things, those ways that
he reveals Himself.
We worship Him because of whohe is.
(01:01:05):
So, as you gather with yourcommunity of faith, let me
encourage you to take some timeto worship God for who he is.
I'm not saying that it's wrongto thank Him for what he's done.
In fact we should.
That's a very, very faithfulresponse to God's actions.
But maybe you need to hear thatGod is who God is and God
(01:01:27):
doesn't change.
Maybe we need to worship Himfor who he is before we even see
Him act in the way that we need.
So let's take this week, let'stake the next little bit of our
lives to worship God because ofwho he is.
Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
And remember, if ever we put the messenger before the
message, we have failed topresent an unblemished gospel.
I'm Greg Thomas.
Join us again right here nextweek in the Choir Room.
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