As the holiday season wraps us in its festive embrace, the Choir Room becomes a sanctuary where the soulful blend of voices lifts spirits and fortifies faith. Joined by a group of personal friends and supporters, we delve into the heartwarming world of choral singing, sharing personal journeys and the unspoken bonds it creates.
Dorian unpacks the theological resonance of "O Come All Ye Faithful" with us, and shows how it encapsulates the core of Christmas – peace, divinity, and the embodiment of Jesus Christ's love. The ever-evolving landscape of church music ministry sparks a thoughtful debate on the place of praise teams versus traditional choirs. While reflecting on this, we uncover the innate power of a choir's collective voice and advocate for a balance that enriches worship experiences. We navigate through the intricacies of praise team roles and how they complement, rather than replace, the dynamic community choirs foster, ensuring that every note sung resonates with the congregation's heartstrings.
As we close this season, we honor the transformative influence of Choir Director Greg Thomas, whose mentorship embodies the essence of impactful leadership. The stories shared are testaments to the profound connections forged through music, echoing the sentiment that true leadership emanates from the heart. So, let's raise our voices in a chorus of gratitude and anticipation for the tales yet to be told, and join us next season for another symphony of insights and inspiration. Until then, may your Christmas be merry, filled with the gospel's pure and unblemished message.
Perpetuating and Promoting the Christian and Positive Idea Through the Medium of Music and Other Arts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the choir room, season 1, episode 32 of
the Choir Room Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome to the choir room.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I'm Greg Thomas, your host, and I'll soon be joined
by my co-host, dorian Johnson.
Welcome to the choir room,mieta Stanselfarer and who we
like to call the fourth wheel,coleman Smart.
This podcast is a production ofMetro Music and Arts.
Its purpose is to perpetuateand promote the Christian and
(00:33):
positive idea through the mediumof music and other arts, and
this podcast exists to promoteand encourage two long-time
traditions in our society thatseem to be dwindling away, and
that is choir and corporatesinging.
We hope to revive theexcitement and joy experienced
with singing in a choir, as wellas inform and educate the
listener on all things singingand all things choir.
(00:56):
If you haven't done so already,be sure to subscribe so that
you can stay informed on what'shappening with the choir room
and what's happening with MetroMusic and Arts.
And, of course, you can do thatanywhere you listen to your
favorite podcast.
Leave an honest review, andthen we encourage you to join
the choir room Facebook group,where you can engage in
conversation and leaveadditional comments with your
choir room peers.
(01:18):
Christmas is here and many arestill hustling and bustling and
doing whatever it is that theydo in preparation for the
holiday.
Personally, I try to avoid themalls and the stores and all of
that stuff and really try tofocus my attention and energy on
the true reason for the season,and that is Jesus Christ.
Now, granted, part of thefestivities is connecting and
(01:39):
reconnecting with friends andfamily, and a few weeks ago I
was on a phone call with afriend who had inquired about
what was happening with MetroMusic and myself and as I began
to share what was happening, shewent a little silent for a
second and then she came backwith this statement Greg, that
sounds wonderful and exciting,but I just want to sing.
I just want to sing, and thatstuck in my ear, like tonight,
(02:04):
for several weeks.
I shared that thought with afew friends over the next few
days, not sharing who said it,but just sharing with them how
important it was and all of thembegin to respond very
differently that I invited themall to join us today in the
podcast.
Now, today is a continuation ofthe discussion from last week,
so this is technically part two.
So, as we continue ourdiscussion on the excitement,
(02:27):
the value, the joy of singingtogether, sit back and enjoy the
conversation.
Now, before we do that, dorianhas our final Christmas hymn for
the season.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Thanks, greg.
This week's hymn of the week isO Come All Ye Faithful, a hymn
that is a classic Christmas hymnand was written in the 1740s.
It has two unusual features forsuch a popular hymn, and one is
that it's un-ron and secondlythat it has an irregular meter.
But the hymn's lyrics are fromthe Word of God and are full of
(03:04):
sound theology.
Verse 1, hearkens us to Luke,chapter 2, verses 4 through 7,
when we're told that Joseph alsowent up to Galilee, in the town
of Nazareth, to Judea, to thecity of David, which is called
Bethlehem because he was of thehouse and lineage of David, to
be registered with Mary, hisbetrothed to his with child.
(03:26):
And while they were there, thetime came for her to give birth
and she gave birth to herfirstborn son and wrapped him in
swaddling claws and laid him ina manger because there was no
place for them.
In the end, verse 1, hearkensall of the faithful, the joyful
and triumphant, and saying Ocome all ye faithful, o come ye,
(03:47):
o come ye to Bethlehem, comeand behold him born, the king of
angels.
Verse 2 takes its lyrics fromthe Nicene Creed.
The Nicene Creed was written inresponse to the 4th century
Aaron, heresy which incorrectlystated and believed that Jesus
(04:07):
was of a different essence fromGod the Father.
In the Creed, belief is statedin one God, the Father, almighty
, maker of heaven and earth andof all things visible and
invisible, and belief is statedin one Lord, jesus Christ, the
only begotten Son of God,begotten of his Father before
(04:28):
all worlds.
God of God, light of light,very God of very God, begotten,
not made, being of one substancewith the Father.
Verse 2 says God of God, lightof light, lo, he abhors not the
virgin's womb.
Very God begotten, not created.
(04:51):
Verse 3 calls the angels tosing in the citizens of heaven
above, to sing in exaltation,pointing us to Luke 2, 13-14,
where the multitude of theheavenly host praise God, saying
glory to God in the highest andon earth, peace among those
(05:11):
with whom he is pleased.
Verse 2,.
Verse 3 says sing choirs ofangels, sing in exaltation.
Sing all ye, citizens of heavenabove.
Glory to God, o glory in thehighest.
Verse 4 points us to the wholereason for this season, which is
(05:33):
the word of God becoming flesh,the incarnation, the coming in
the flesh of our Lord and Savior.
John 1, 14 says in the wordbecame flesh and dwelt among us.
We have seen his glory, gloryas of the only Son from the
Father, full of grace and truth.
Verse 4 says Ye, lord, we greetthee born this happy morning.
(05:56):
Jesus, to thee be all glorygiven.
Word of the Father now in fleshappearing.
And of course, we have thatfamous refrain O come, let us
adore him.
O come, let us adore him.
O come, let us adore him.
Christ the Lord, during thisChristmas season, amidst all of
(06:21):
the busyness and hustle andbustle and all of the
preparations and all of thevarious concerts and programs
and all of the family gatherings, let us remember why it is that
we celebrate this season.
It is because Jesus Christ, whois very God of very God, who
was from all of eternity, frombefore time even began, step
(06:48):
into time, took upon himself thefrailty of flesh and came and
dwelt amongst us so that hemight go to the cross and take
the penalty for our sins andthen be raised from the dead on
the third day to justify us andto reconcile us to the Father.
Truly, he should be adored.
(07:10):
He should be adored, he shouldbe adored.
Christ, the Lord of all.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Welcome to the choir.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Mi'eta has our CRQ, our choir room question for the
week.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Thanks, Greg.
Here we are this evening withour CRQ.
So tonight's CRQ is should thepraise team take the place of
the choir?
Should the praise team take theplace of the choir?
My answer is short.
No, it's a short answer.
I say no, especially if youhave a choir.
(07:50):
If there's a choir in place,then it should not take the
place of the choir.
I know, and I hate to referback to this because we often do
it, but you know, during COVIDOf course, at that time
everybody had to kind of figureout what to do with the music
ministry.
(08:11):
When we were able to, you know,somewhat go back into our
sanctuaries or just even online,we're trying to figure out what
do we do.
Because there are some churcheswho did have choirs but because
of the pandemic the choir hadto pause and then they used a
smaller group to facilitate themusic for the ministry.
I understood it then had noproblem with it then, because we
(08:34):
were trying to figure out how.
We were still in the learningprocess of what, where do we put
them?
You know, how do we interject,how do we keep them involved,
keep them engaged, and so youuse a smaller group of people to
kind of keep that.
I was a part of that type ofsetup.
So they would be a smallergroup.
We would come to the churchrecord with the smaller group
(08:54):
and then air it, you know, asthe ministry would air, and that
was fine.
I had no problems with that.
But I believe that once webegin to get back into the swing
of things or our sense ofnormal again, if there were
choirs, the choir came back.
There was a praise team, still,and it was fine, but then the
(09:18):
choir came back together, ThankGod and still.
But the unfortunate part aboutthat is still there are some
churches who still don't havetheir choirs back in place,
which is unfortunate.
You know which is unfortunate.
I've never been a lover or anadvocate of the choir.
Just go away and we'll just usethis group right here from now
(09:42):
on.
But people were doing it.
So for me I don't believe thatthe choir or the praise team
should take the place of thechoir.
But I have a question withinthis question.
That's even a thing.
We did not grow and ourpreference preference, that
(10:03):
would say we did not grow up inmy church we did not have praise
teams right, so the choir tookcare of all of that, all the
music for the service.
So I think around the early 90syou started getting the praise
teams involved and we didn'tknow what to do with the praise
team.
We really did not know it was.
(10:24):
It was foreign for us becausewe've always had a choir.
So the praise team was very wasforeign for me.
I had.
It took me a long time to getused to that because I was
always with the choir.
We took care of all the music.
We started singing, we endedsinging.
It was us and so that was adifficult thing for me.
(10:45):
I had to kind of concede alittle bit and just allow them
to do that.
The, the music, the musicministry, do what was going on.
But I often had a questionabout what was the purpose of
the praise team to start with.
What was the reason for apraise team?
(11:07):
Were we doing it because it wasthe trend at the time, or did
it really enhance our musicministries at all?
So that's my question withinthis question.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
You know, I think that is the question.
I think that's the question,perhaps behind the question.
I think, whenever a smallerteam or praise team as we're
calling them is formed, thatthere needs to be a purpose
behind it, a specific purpose.
Either they are singing aparticular type of music that
perhaps the choir doesn't singor, as I've had to do in the
(11:40):
past, form smaller groupsbecause we were traveling and
couldn't take a larger groupinto certain areas and so we had
to form a smaller group to dothat.
Either way, we have to be verycareful when we form these
groups, because we foster anenvironment that says this group
of people are the elites, theyare the special forces.
I call them premier singers.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Yeah Well this is the problem.
Therein lies the problem.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
We risk creating an environment that says this group
is more elite than the rest ofyou, so they get to do special
things, they get to go specialplaces, they get to sing special
music.
Now again, that might be thecase, but it's our
responsibility then to make surethat the smaller, that the
smaller group is not held inhigher esteem than the choir and
(12:25):
that the choir doesn't lookdown on the next group and vice
versa.
But to answer the question,should the praise team replace
the choir?
I say absolutely not.
Unless there are situationslike I've already described the
choir is too big to go intocertain areas, or you're
traveling and you can't movearound that many people, or the
(12:45):
team is singing a specific typeof music that doesn't
necessarily fit the repertoireof the choir.
Outside of that, the praise teamis really a glorified ensemble.
So we have to be careful tomake sure that they have a
specific role in the context ofyour church service, that
they're either singing specialmusic or that, again, they're
(13:07):
meeting all that criteria.
Now, without that criteria, thepraise team is really just a
glorified ensemble.
They don't reach having anyfaster or any more effective
than the choir does and, youknow, not necessarily moving
hearts any more effective thanthe choir does.
So no, I don't think it shouldreplace, unless it's a specific
(13:28):
need being filled by theensemble.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I was going to.
As I thought about thisquestion, I was going to channel
our friend Coleman and say itdepends on the context.
It depends on the context.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
You know, I'm going to take out my the source and
find the synonym.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah, exactly Exactly , but it's just one of those
things where it may be that, forwhatever reason, your church
isn't big enough to have a choirand there are just a few folks
coming from a church thatdoesn't have a choir and we have
(14:07):
one person leading the singing.
I don't want to say that apraise team or an ensemble is
always a bad thing, right, but Ithink it's a matter of how it's
presented and how it'sconsidered amongst the
congregation.
I mean, is it looked at as Ithink you've used this term
(14:29):
before these the special forcesor is this just a rotation of
people that that sing, becausethat's the other thing too?
Is it just the same peopleevery week?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
or rotation.
Right.
Is it a rotation of?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
people, because I mean, I think if it's a rotation
of people that are alwayssinging, you see, that it's just
because we don't have room fora choir on our platform or we
don't have that many folks inour church to serve in that way.
So I think it really depends.
But I would say, for the mostpart and maybe this is the
question behind the question,the praise team has taken on
(15:09):
sort of this other than aspect,and that's, you don't want to
sort of feed that or create that, but at the same time you want
to make sure that you're nottrying to establish something in
your church that maybe yourchurch is ready for or can't
support.
Right, right.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Because there are some, some singers, and I've
seen this there are some singerswho are the part of the praise
team.
If you will, but won't singwith the choir.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
No right, well, we'll see that those are the green
berets.
That's a different RightSpecial forces.
But then you got green beretsthat are just like rambles.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
They don't sing with the choir?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
No, they don't, they're not.
No, no, no, they don't singwith choir.
Oh man, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Well see, that's that spirit we talked about before
Spirit of death.
And we risk fostering it whenwe don't have a purpose for
these groups.
Now, now it's beyond thequestion, obviously, but I think
at some point we'll have tohave the conversation on how to
have these two groups, the choirand the smaller groups, coexist
, and then we'll have to have anhonest discussion, maybe with
(16:17):
choir members, about who gets amic and why.
Because that okay.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I gotta remember that called the green berets.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I like that Join the infantry.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, glory
(17:22):
and honor is due to Him.
Crown Him Lord.
Look, since the sight ismarvelous, crown Him Lord.
Let's crowd around the glorious.
Crown Him Lord.
Drink for the royal diadem.
Crown Him Lord.
Glory and honor is due to Him.
Crown Him Lord.
(17:42):
I'm making preparation for thatgreat celebration.
It gets closer every day.
I can't wait.
No, I can't wait.
Just that one glance upon Him.
(18:03):
I know that we will never, everbe the same.
No, come, see the faith inBethlehem, see the babe in
Bethlehem.
Crown Him Lord.
Let's celebrate the virginbirth.
Crown Him Lord.
Let's all get shot.
Meet in the night.
Crown Him Lord.
He grids to us eternal life.
(18:25):
Crown Him Lord.
Join in the mighty court.
Let's celebrate the Lord.
Let's lift up your voice andheart.
Come on, take apart, take apart.
Yeah, just that one glance uponHim.
(18:47):
I know that we will never, everbe the same.
No, crown Him Lord.
Let's crowd around the glorious.
Bring forth the Lord the gloryand honor.
It's due to Him.
(19:08):
We celebrate Jesus the Savior.
Yes, I love Him.
Jesus, I love Him.
Crown Him Lord.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah,
hallelujah, crown Him, lord.
It's my purpose, for whichthose guests were invited, and
(20:03):
that was to address, from mypersonal experience, what they
found the value, significanceand the benefits of singing and
choir, particularly during thisholiday season.
And the conversation began totake a little turn, to my
surprise, but we're grateful forit.
Anyway, here's part two withour conversation with our guests
from last week's episode.
Speaker 10 (20:25):
I just want to say that I think it's a very
important point to mention howrelational worship is not just,
like Peggy said, first of allvertically, but second of all,
to be, like you said, of oneaccord and feel like you're
connected and family and havethat fellowship.
(20:48):
Because I think aboutworshiping with 200 people and
knowing the individual storiesand being so ministered to,
because knowing that thisperson's husband just died about
a week ago and she's stillraising her hands to the Lord
and she's still giving theresponse to the Lord that you
know what God you're worthy inand blessed be the name of the
(21:10):
Lord.
And also thinking about Aliaand my relationship with her and
how she knew the worst parts ofme.
She still knows and I knowshe'll take them to the grave,
but she, you know, having thatrelationship and feeling that
connection during worship orwhen she was leading us, and how
it did feel so safe because wewere intimate in a way that she
(21:32):
was that we were able to iron,Iron, yeah, no, sharpen, sharpen
one another in ways where, youknow, a person with a surface
level relationship wouldn't beable to tell me something like
that.
I would take well knowing, likethe way that Alia loves me, she
(21:53):
could say something harsh to menot harsh, but like a strong
word in the Lord and, you know,make me think about whatever it
is that I need to think about,and so it's just such a
relational thing and I thinkthat that's really what I really
miss the most is the fellowship, and I have found that in the
(22:16):
current church that I'm at andit's just a small Baptist church
a couple blocks away from myhouse and I lead worship and
we're very close with the musicdirector and the other voices
and the instruments and I thinkthat it's such a blessing.
You know, regardless of thesize.
I went from this 200 personchoir and now the worship band
(22:39):
that I'm in has about 10 peoplemore or less, but there's still
that sentiment of like therelationship, because once we go
into worship you have thatfeeling of support where, like a
lot of times, if I'm leadingworship, the Lord will just
strike me down in some way andI'll break down and I'll just
(23:00):
give a look across and they'llknow and they'll raise their
voices.
And let me have a second to havea moment with the Lord.
And it's just a beautiful thingto operate within the body and
know that you've got that, notthat just that surface level
support, but like that intimatesupport where we know one
another's needs, we know whatwe're going through.
We have a very strong focus onthe heart in this church that
(23:25):
I'm in and we're constantlytouching on one another's
intimate lives.
How are you doing?
You know, and not just you know, like I said, not just surface,
but getting really deep intowhatever our needs are and where
we are spiritually, so that wecan make sure that we are all
spiritually growing and togetherand individually.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
You know I couldn't agree more.
I think the relational part of,Can you say?
Speaker 4 (23:52):
something, Greg, before you move on.
And it's very brief and it'smore about you, sir.
I'm listening to these youngwomen and men speak about TSC
and the fellowship and how thechoir of 200, you say right, at
least about 200 people singing.
Listening to them kind of makesme think that this is all a
(24:19):
great testament to yourleadership, sir.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
And you were my leader too at one time, long
time ago, and I certainly doappreciate that.
But just in just listening tothese voices here tonight, I
moved a bit and I don't getemotional about nothing, but I
have to say I am a bit of You'relaughing at me, dory.
(24:45):
I have to say I am a bit movedtonight listening to these young
women and this young man herespeak about the fellowship,
speak about the togetherness,the family that had to have come
through your leadership, and Iwant you to know you should be
(25:09):
commended for that and becausethis is awesome.
This really is.
I know this ain't got nothingto do with the podcast, but this
is awesome, and they weren'tcalled here for that either.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I know, I know.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
But I'm just listening and I'm thinking, just
you know, within my own head,like man, this dude is something
special that he was able to toexert or I shouldn't wouldn't
say I wouldn't use the wordexert, but just share and from
his heart, with all of thesepeople that he did not know.
(25:47):
You know, you did not know goingin, you had no idea of the
impact you would have had onthese lives.
But listening to these peopletonight, I want you to know, sir
, if you have not thought aboutit before, that you have had a
huge, huge impact, to the pointwhere they can't find it nowhere
else.
They're searching for all overthe globe.
(26:08):
They're in different parts ofthe country still looking for it
.
And I just want to commend andsay thank God for you, thank God
for you, thank God for yourleadership, thank God for
hearing God and being able tohear God and then say what God
says, to say, tells you to sayto them, because you have
impacted their lives, you have,you have helped them on their
(26:31):
journey and this is amazing.
I just wanted to say that Don'tyou dare cry, gregory.
Speaker 6 (26:37):
I just wanted to share that.
I'm going to chime in on thattoo, because I will.
I will second everything youjust said and I think that we
maybe take you for granted alittle bit, but it is not lost
on us, like just you as a personand how the Lord used you.
(27:01):
I mean, I could just tell youfrom my story I started going to
TSC and I just wanted to hidein the balcony and I loved the
big church.
I didn't want to be talking toanyone, I just want to be hiding
in the back and I wanted tolisten to that man on the piano
sing a song, just sing it.
I don't even want to sing withhim, I just want to hear it.
And I remember thinking like Iwant to learn from him.
(27:26):
And I don't know why it wasn'tanyone else on the platform and
I mean that's probably terribleto say, but it was you.
And when I got to be part ofthe choir it was probably.
It was like I got a lead roleon Broadway.
It was better than that for me,like getting a lead role on
Broadway, getting to work withyou and then getting to be your
(27:47):
assistant, which was a wholenother level of a story.
But through it and the HolySpirit orchestrated that and I
can't even like literally anaudible voice told me call and
see if there's a job at church.
And I remember thinking what inthe world?
That would be insane.
And I remember calling Misty andthen coming in for an interview
(28:07):
with you and I was like what,interviewing to assist you, and
it was just this crazy the waythe Lord worked it out.
But through you and yourfriendship, not just your
leadership, but just you as aperson, how the Lord used you.
I still talk about you topeople to this day because
(28:28):
you're one of the first peopleLeadership in a church that ever
listened to me, and not just me, but like my family and stories
that were hard to talk aboutwith people from church, and you
were the first person at achurch, in leadership, to listen
, and I still talk about you tothis day because that has been
(28:49):
so impactful, not just on me butmy whole family, which is crazy
because you haven't even met mywhole family.
But I just have to secondeverything she just said Because
you're probably one of thegreatest church leaders that
I've ever encountered and I havethe honor of calling you a
friend, which I know the Lord, Iknow he worked that out and
(29:13):
orchestrated all of that.
But I'm so thankful, just sothankful.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Well, thank you Alia, I'm gonna show you.
Speaker 10 (29:22):
I have a very similar okay go ahead.
Okay, okay, okay, no.
When I first went to TSC, Ialso sat up in the balcony and
as soon as that curtain went up,the Holy Spirit and I was brand
new, saved like just no fire.
I was like this is exactlywhere I need to be.
(29:42):
And it wasn't about anythingelse but that music ministry and
I know that it probably had alot to do with music because
I've always been involved inmusic but really, the testimony
of your leadership and how,years later, I'm still hearing
your voice in my head when I'mgoing through stuff, this is
much bigger than you.
(30:03):
This is much bigger.
Just continue.
A little lessons here and there, and the same exact thing that
Alia was saying how you listento us, you care for us, and it
was so much deeper.
It really like it shaped myentire walk.
It's not just musically, thebest training probably I've ever
(30:26):
had in my life but my walk withChrist has been so shaped by
you that you know it because Itext you here and there.
All the time you get my randomtext messages and it's because
that's what the Lord has donethrough you.
So I just I thank God for yourlife.
Speaker 8 (30:46):
I will add one little story in addition to Alia and
Maria's.
Back in 2007, I was consideringmoving to Los Angeles and the
thing that kept me in New Yorkthere were other things that
(31:07):
ended up keeping me in New York,which I hadn't anticipated, but
when I was considering doingthe move to LA, the thing that
was holding me back was Greg.
It was you.
It was Times Square Church, butit wasn't the church and it
wasn't the pastors.
It was you, and I know thatsounds funny, but it was you.
(31:32):
Because I was like I'm notgonna find this with this level
of talent and skill andspiritual maturity over there.
It's good, I mean, it mustexist, but to find it it would
be so difficult.
And so when I othercircumstances kept me here, but
(31:54):
it was you know if I, if I couldhave just moved, the thing that
stopped me was was you?
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Well, thanks, peggy, and all of you, aliya Maria.
You know, peggy, I remember youtrying to move.
Speaker 8 (32:08):
I was considering it.
I wasn't about to Do it, butthe thing that was holding me
back was I Need to be where Gregis.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Well, well, thanks again.
I remember speaking and prayingagainst that move, just like I
prayed for children for all ofmy married couples, for Misty
and Michelle and For alia, andthey all got married and all had
children, even Angel, who'shere.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
Yeah, well, wait, can I just jump in here really
quickly because you know Ihaven't seen Peggy or Margaret,
I always called her Peggy.
I know it's a good you keptPeggy there and not many people
will know this, but I worked inthe media entertainment Industry
(33:00):
and I didn't see many saved orChristian people in that
industry.
And when I found out that myfellow choir made on the alto
side because I was on thesoprano side, when I found out
that she was in media andWorking in the level that she
was working, first of all I wasblown away because she did not
fit the mole of what I had beenexposed to.
(33:23):
And here I am, you know,wanting to be there, was
struggling in this secularenvironment and not seeing
anyone who I could look to, whowas following Christ and
pursuing professional role.
So I didn't meet you till afterthis, we think it's.
I didn't get to know that aboutyou till after that, and so I'm
(33:45):
thankful that she was therebecause she has been.
Whether you know it or not,peggy, you have been a huge
Blessing to me, and I mean atrandom times I think about you
and how, what I would ultimatelyget to do you kind of late the
groundwork, for first you weresomeone who had integrity, who I
could look to to see Okay, god,you know I can be in these
(34:08):
spaces and maintain integrity.
And then you went a stepfurther.
I remember working on a project.
You hired me on a project whenI was In between jobs and I got
to to see you at work and bewith you and, while amazing
small to you, it was huge for me.
(34:30):
It came at a time where,emotionally and mentally, I
needed to be in that creativespace and I was struggling to
figure things out of where I washeaded and I think I was
fighting.
We got about where I was headedbecause ultimately I ended up
going to work for Greg, but andso but.
(34:52):
It was a huge piece that wouldbe a big part of a puzzle that I
would not even began to seetake shape until probably a
decade later.
And so when I look and see whatI've been able to do in the
last five years of my life, itall goes back to your influence
(35:13):
and your Handprint in my life.
So thank you for that.
Speaker 8 (35:20):
I.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Hope we got an answer to the CRQ.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
Oh, I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
Initially we were talking about.
You know singing.
What does it do for you, peggy?
Speaker 8 (35:39):
and our roommate in Scotland and.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
I had been running from leadership opportunities
because it was almost it was.
You know, it's more fun to bein the group than to be the
leader.
The leader takes the heat and Ijust started working at the
church and I went from going asa part of the team to the
mission strip to now leading theteam and I was facing probably
one of the biggest fears that Ihad been running from and Peggy
(36:05):
was my roommate.
I don't know if you rememberthis.
Yes, getting from New York CityTo Greenock, scotland, was
quite the ordeal, with that manypeople and I just greenock,
greenock.
Yes, I remember being sostressed.
And I also remember Then, firstnight, when I remember there's
(36:29):
a curtain or not, but when themusic started to play and we
started to worship, I remembercrying Because I was like, wow,
god, you know, here I was, I wasnot serving in joy, I was, but
once we started worshiping,everything lifted up off of me
and I remember feeling, okay,god, if I had to go through all
(36:51):
this To be here to get to dothis, I'm doing what I love, I'm
worshiping you, and when I doit, what I feel I Can't, you
can't find anywhere else, youcan't follow it up, you can't
buy it.
But that atmosphere of worshipand praise, and when everything
else that is on you is liftedand you say, okay, fine, I
(37:15):
surrender if I gotta do all ofthat just to get to do this, it
is so worth it because it's sucha beautiful moment in
atmosphere.
Speaker 10 (37:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Well, since we are so way off topic, I'm going I'm
gonna show a video now.
Our listeners won't be able tosee it, but you'll at least be
able to hear it, and then, ohwell, we'll talk a little bit
about this.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Back.
Speaker 9 (38:44):
Clean.
I find no fault in this man,the liar Radical.
He came to bring justice.
He's a liar.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
No Of last we were we must be killed For him to dance
.
He's a liar Of last we were.
We must be killed For him todance.
He's done something to peopleSpreading lies to out the land
From.
Speaker 9 (39:13):
Galilee to Jerusalem.
Do you not have a custom that aprisoner be freed at the
Passover?
Therefore, since I find nofault in this man Deserving of
death, I will chastise him andrelease him.
No, but he's a liar.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
No, Of last we were.
We must be killed.
For him to dance, but he's aliar Of last we were.
We must be killed For him todance.
Speaker 9 (39:38):
Away with him.
Give us Varabas Varabas.
No, bring forth the prisonerVarabas Varabas.
Is this the man you want freein your streets?
No, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Give us Varabas, this man whoincites rebellion and is a known
(40:03):
murderer.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yes, yes, yes yes, yes, no yes.
Speaker 9 (40:11):
Release him, or shall I release you, your King Jesus?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yesyes, yes, no, no.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
We have no King but Caesar.
Away with Caesar Varabas, yes,and what shall?
Speaker 9 (40:27):
I do with Jesus.
Call the Messiah.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Kill.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
That is our dear friend Chris Montelion, and this
was actually a productionentitled Sent by God, which is
an Easter production, not aChristmas one.
Now, our listeners probablyfigured that out based on the
content, but I wanted to cue itsince we were already off topic.
But yet on topic and the factthat we have Chris Montelion
(41:15):
with us.
Speaker 7 (41:16):
Chris, you know that was the first time that Andy and
I ever sang together, was doingthat at Easter production.
We had never sung together.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
You know, I remember you telling me that.
Speaker 7 (41:27):
Yeah, and that was the performance that changed my
life forever.
That's where I said I don'tknow.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Well, I think you've changed that role forever.
Nobody's done it since.
Obviously, what is done?
Speaker 9 (41:40):
right, what's done?
Speaker 1 (41:42):
I just remember the process and writing that piece,
that I didn't have a song forthat scene, and remember
thinking of you and Andy andsaid well, you know, let me, let
me come up with something thatworks for both of you.
And there you have it.
I think the title of the onethat she sang to you was called
(42:03):
the Dream.
That's right when she warns youwhy you shouldn't have anything
to do with this man.
Speaker 7 (42:09):
Yeah, oh, yeah, keep your hands clean.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Well, I will say this there is much more singing in
the future for all of you.
So you've gotten comfortable.
Don't get comfortable.
That's right.
You're not done.
Speaker 8 (42:24):
Actually, I said this to you already.
It was post-pandemic, I meanduring the pandemic, but I've
got witnesses here and I'vealready said this to you before.
But I really, really encourageyou to continue to write music
(42:47):
and arrange music.
Of course, it is a gift thatyou have, that we have all been
blessed to sing thosearrangements and those songs.
So please keep doing that.
Don't let I mean it's again.
This is awesome what you'redoing with the podcast and all
of that other stuff, but don't,don't let go of the actual
(43:12):
musical talent that you have,because, yeah, please don't and
include us.
You're doing it because I missit so much.
The sound is so different, thearrangements are so different.
I might and I, I, I miss youevery single time.
(43:32):
Every single time.
Like you know, we could singthis, similar notes and the same
songs, but the arrangements andthe way that you put that music
together it's it's totallydifferent and I miss it so much.
So please do not stop doingthat.
Speaker 5 (43:55):
That gospel thread, right, peggy?
Yeah, I think, look, I think,should we.
Should we work on a documentary?
Speaker 8 (44:04):
I just want to sing, well put.
Speaker 5 (44:07):
Give me the name of the documentary.
Speaker 8 (44:10):
I just want to sing Come on Food for the soul.
Speaker 7 (44:14):
Even when you were playing those clips, I started
crying.
It's just, it's home, it's home.
Speaker 8 (44:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (44:22):
Even my girls, my girls.
My oldest is 22 now and 22, 20and 19.
And they miss what they wereraised with, but they view as
being the leader of the of whatthey grew up on.
They can walk into a church and, within the first song, go.
(44:43):
Not there.
They have discernment nowbecause of you.
It's your fault.
Listen to the Holy Spirit andthey're trained.
They are just.
That's what their desire is.
They want to worship, and thankyou for that, Greg, just thank
you.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Thank you, chris, for those kind of words, and thank
all of you for joining ustonight.
We will have to get you back toaddress the CRQ in full and
then we'll talk about some ofthe things that we have coming
up in 2024.
A very Merry Christmas to allof you and your families.
Speaker 8 (45:19):
Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas everyone.
Thanks, greg.
Speaker 5 (45:24):
Thank you so much, merry.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Christmas Bye.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
To our listeners.
Merry Christmas to you and wewill be back with you with a new
episode and a new season in thecoming year.
And remember, if ever we putthe messenger before the message
, we have failed to present anunblemished gospel.
I'm Greg Thomas.
Join us again next time here inthe Choir Room.
Welcome to the choir room, season 1, episode 32 of
the Choir Room Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome to the choir room.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I'm Greg Thomas, your host, and I'll soon be joined
by my co-host, dorian Johnson.
Welcome to the choir room,mieta Stanselfarer and who we
like to call the fourth wheel,coleman Smart.
This podcast is a production ofMetro Music and Arts.
Its purpose is to perpetuateand promote the Christian and
(00:33):
positive idea through the mediumof music and other arts, and
this podcast exists to promoteand encourage two long-time
traditions in our society thatseem to be dwindling away, and
that is choir and corporatesinging.
We hope to revive theexcitement and joy experienced
with singing in a choir, as wellas inform and educate the
listener on all things singingand all things choir.
(00:56):
If you haven't done so already,be sure to subscribe so that
you can stay informed on what'shappening with the choir room
and what's happening with MetroMusic and Arts.
And, of course, you can do thatanywhere you listen to your
favorite podcast.
Leave an honest review, andthen we encourage you to join
the choir room Facebook group,where you can engage in
conversation and leaveadditional comments with your
choir room peers.
(01:18):
Christmas is here and many arestill hustling and bustling and
doing whatever it is that theydo in preparation for the
holiday.
Personally, I try to avoid themalls and the stores and all of
that stuff and really try tofocus my attention and energy on
the true reason for the season,and that is Jesus Christ.
Now, granted, part of thefestivities is connecting and
(01:39):
reconnecting with friends andfamily, and a few weeks ago I
was on a phone call with afriend who had inquired about
what was happening with MetroMusic and myself and as I began
to share what was happening, shewent a little silent for a
second and then she came backwith this statement Greg, that
sounds wonderful and exciting,but I just want to sing.
I just want to sing, and thatstuck in my ear, like tonight,
(02:04):
for several weeks.
I shared that thought with afew friends over the next few
days, not sharing who said it,but just sharing with them how
important it was and all of thembegin to respond very
differently that I invited themall to join us today in the
podcast.
Now, today is a continuation ofthe discussion from last week,
so this is technically part two.
So, as we continue ourdiscussion on the excitement,
(02:27):
the value, the joy of singingtogether, sit back and enjoy the
conversation.
Now, before we do that, dorianhas our final Christmas hymn for
the season.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Thanks, greg.
This week's hymn of the week isO Come All Ye Faithful, a hymn
that is a classic Christmas hymnand was written in the 1740s.
It has two unusual features forsuch a popular hymn, and one is
that it's un-ron and secondlythat it has an irregular meter.
But the hymn's lyrics are fromthe Word of God and are full of
(03:04):
sound theology.
Verse 1, hearkens us to Luke,chapter 2, verses 4 through 7,
when we're told that Joseph alsowent up to Galilee, in the town
of Nazareth, to Judea, to thecity of David, which is called
Bethlehem because he was of thehouse and lineage of David, to
be registered with Mary, hisbetrothed to his with child.
(03:26):
And while they were there, thetime came for her to give birth
and she gave birth to herfirstborn son and wrapped him in
swaddling claws and laid him ina manger because there was no
place for them.
In the end, verse 1, hearkensall of the faithful, the joyful
and triumphant, and saying Ocome all ye faithful, o come ye,
(03:47):
o come ye to Bethlehem, comeand behold him born, the king of
angels.
Verse 2 takes its lyrics fromthe Nicene Creed.
The Nicene Creed was written inresponse to the 4th century
Aaron, heresy which incorrectlystated and believed that Jesus
(04:07):
was of a different essence fromGod the Father.
In the Creed, belief is statedin one God, the Father, almighty
, maker of heaven and earth andof all things visible and
invisible, and belief is statedin one Lord, jesus Christ, the
only begotten Son of God,begotten of his Father before
(04:28):
all worlds.
God of God, light of light,very God of very God, begotten,
not made, being of one substancewith the Father.
Verse 2 says God of God, lightof light, lo, he abhors not the
virgin's womb.
Very God begotten, not created.
(04:51):
Verse 3 calls the angels tosing in the citizens of heaven
above, to sing in exaltation,pointing us to Luke 2, 13-14,
where the multitude of theheavenly host praise God, saying
glory to God in the highest andon earth, peace among those
(05:11):
with whom he is pleased.
Verse 2,.
Verse 3 says sing choirs ofangels, sing in exaltation.
Sing all ye, citizens of heavenabove.
Glory to God, o glory in thehighest.
Verse 4 points us to the wholereason for this season, which is
(05:33):
the word of God becoming flesh,the incarnation, the coming in
the flesh of our Lord and Savior.
John 1, 14 says in the wordbecame flesh and dwelt among us.
We have seen his glory, gloryas of the only Son from the
Father, full of grace and truth.
Verse 4 says Ye, lord, we greetthee born this happy morning.
(05:56):
Jesus, to thee be all glorygiven.
Word of the Father now in fleshappearing.
And of course, we have thatfamous refrain O come, let us
adore him.
O come, let us adore him.
O come, let us adore him.
Christ the Lord, during thisChristmas season, amidst all of
(06:21):
the busyness and hustle andbustle and all of the
preparations and all of thevarious concerts and programs
and all of the family gatherings, let us remember why it is that
we celebrate this season.
It is because Jesus Christ, whois very God of very God, who
was from all of eternity, frombefore time even began, step
(06:48):
into time, took upon himself thefrailty of flesh and came and
dwelt amongst us so that hemight go to the cross and take
the penalty for our sins andthen be raised from the dead on
the third day to justify us andto reconcile us to the Father.
Truly, he should be adored.
(07:10):
He should be adored, he shouldbe adored.
Christ, the Lord of all.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Welcome to the choir.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Mi'eta has our CRQ, our choir room question for the
week.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Thanks, Greg.
Here we are this evening withour CRQ.
So tonight's CRQ is should thepraise team take the place of
the choir?
Should the praise team take theplace of the choir?
My answer is short.
No, it's a short answer.
I say no, especially if youhave a choir.
(07:50):
If there's a choir in place,then it should not take the
place of the choir.
I know, and I hate to referback to this because we often do
it, but you know, during COVIDOf course, at that time
everybody had to kind of figureout what to do with the music
ministry.
(08:11):
When we were able to, you know,somewhat go back into our
sanctuaries or just even online,we're trying to figure out what
do we do.
Because there are some churcheswho did have choirs but because
of the pandemic the choir hadto pause and then they used a
smaller group to facilitate themusic for the ministry.
I understood it then had noproblem with it then, because we
(08:34):
were trying to figure out how.
We were still in the learningprocess of what, where do we put
them?
You know, how do we interject,how do we keep them involved,
keep them engaged, and so youuse a smaller group of people to
kind of keep that.
I was a part of that type ofsetup.
So they would be a smallergroup.
We would come to the churchrecord with the smaller group
(08:54):
and then air it, you know, asthe ministry would air, and that
was fine.
I had no problems with that.
But I believe that once webegin to get back into the swing
of things or our sense ofnormal again, if there were
choirs, the choir came back.
There was a praise team, still,and it was fine, but then the
(09:18):
choir came back together, ThankGod and still.
But the unfortunate part aboutthat is still there are some
churches who still don't havetheir choirs back in place,
which is unfortunate.
You know which is unfortunate.
I've never been a lover or anadvocate of the choir.
Just go away and we'll just usethis group right here from now
(09:42):
on.
But people were doing it.
So for me I don't believe thatthe choir or the praise team
should take the place of thechoir.
But I have a question withinthis question.
That's even a thing.
We did not grow and ourpreference preference, that
(10:03):
would say we did not grow up inmy church we did not have praise
teams right, so the choir tookcare of all of that, all the
music for the service.
So I think around the early 90syou started getting the praise
teams involved and we didn'tknow what to do with the praise
team.
We really did not know it was.
(10:24):
It was foreign for us becausewe've always had a choir.
So the praise team was very wasforeign for me.
I had.
It took me a long time to getused to that because I was
always with the choir.
We took care of all the music.
We started singing, we endedsinging.
It was us and so that was adifficult thing for me.
(10:45):
I had to kind of concede alittle bit and just allow them
to do that.
The, the music, the musicministry, do what was going on.
But I often had a questionabout what was the purpose of
the praise team to start with.
What was the reason for apraise team?
(11:07):
Were we doing it because it wasthe trend at the time, or did
it really enhance our musicministries at all?
So that's my question withinthis question.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
You know, I think that is the question.
I think that's the question,perhaps behind the question.
I think, whenever a smallerteam or praise team as we're
calling them is formed, thatthere needs to be a purpose
behind it, a specific purpose.
Either they are singing aparticular type of music that
perhaps the choir doesn't singor, as I've had to do in the
(11:40):
past, form smaller groupsbecause we were traveling and
couldn't take a larger groupinto certain areas and so we had
to form a smaller group to dothat.
Either way, we have to be verycareful when we form these
groups, because we foster anenvironment that says this group
of people are the elites, theyare the special forces.
I call them premier singers.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Yeah Well this is the problem.
Therein lies the problem.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
We risk creating an environment that says this group
is more elite than the rest ofyou, so they get to do special
things, they get to go specialplaces, they get to sing special
music.
Now again, that might be thecase, but it's our
responsibility then to make surethat the smaller, that the
smaller group is not held inhigher esteem than the choir and
(12:25):
that the choir doesn't lookdown on the next group and vice
versa.
But to answer the question,should the praise team replace
the choir?
I say absolutely not.
Unless there are situationslike I've already described the
choir is too big to go intocertain areas, or you're
traveling and you can't movearound that many people, or the
(12:45):
team is singing a specific typeof music that doesn't
necessarily fit the repertoireof the choir.
Outside of that, the praise teamis really a glorified ensemble.
So we have to be careful tomake sure that they have a
specific role in the context ofyour church service, that
they're either singing specialmusic or that, again, they're
(13:07):
meeting all that criteria.
Now, without that criteria, thepraise team is really just a
glorified ensemble.
They don't reach having anyfaster or any more effective
than the choir does and, youknow, not necessarily moving
hearts any more effective thanthe choir does.
So no, I don't think it shouldreplace, unless it's a specific
(13:28):
need being filled by theensemble.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I was going to.
As I thought about thisquestion, I was going to channel
our friend Coleman and say itdepends on the context.
It depends on the context.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
You know, I'm going to take out my the source and
find the synonym.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah, exactly Exactly , but it's just one of those
things where it may be that, forwhatever reason, your church
isn't big enough to have a choirand there are just a few folks
coming from a church thatdoesn't have a choir and we have
(14:07):
one person leading the singing.
I don't want to say that apraise team or an ensemble is
always a bad thing, right, but Ithink it's a matter of how it's
presented and how it'sconsidered amongst the
congregation.
I mean, is it looked at as Ithink you've used this term
(14:29):
before these the special forcesor is this just a rotation of
people that that sing, becausethat's the other thing too?
Is it just the same peopleevery week?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
or rotation.
Right.
Is it a rotation of?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
people, because I mean, I think if it's a rotation
of people that are alwayssinging, you see, that it's just
because we don't have room fora choir on our platform or we
don't have that many folks inour church to serve in that way.
So I think it really depends.
But I would say, for the mostpart and maybe this is the
question behind the question,the praise team has taken on
(15:09):
sort of this other than aspect,and that's, you don't want to
sort of feed that or create that, but at the same time you want
to make sure that you're nottrying to establish something in
your church that maybe yourchurch is ready for or can't
support.
Right, right.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Because there are some, some singers, and I've
seen this there are some singerswho are the part of the praise
team.
If you will, but won't singwith the choir.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
No right, well, we'll see that those are the green
berets.
That's a different RightSpecial forces.
But then you got green beretsthat are just like rambles.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
They don't sing with the choir?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
No, they don't, they're not.
No, no, no, they don't singwith choir.
Oh man, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Well see, that's that spirit we talked about before
Spirit of death.
And we risk fostering it whenwe don't have a purpose for
these groups.
Now, now it's beyond thequestion, obviously, but I think
at some point we'll have tohave the conversation on how to
have these two groups, the choirand the smaller groups, coexist
, and then we'll have to have anhonest discussion, maybe with
(16:17):
choir members, about who gets amic and why.
Because that okay.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I gotta remember that called the green berets.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I like that Join the infantry.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, glory
(17:22):
and honor is due to Him.
Crown Him Lord.
Look, since the sight ismarvelous, crown Him Lord.
Let's crowd around the glorious.
Crown Him Lord.
Drink for the royal diadem.
Crown Him Lord.
Glory and honor is due to Him.
Crown Him Lord.
(17:42):
I'm making preparation for thatgreat celebration.
It gets closer every day.
I can't wait.
No, I can't wait.
Just that one glance upon Him.
(18:03):
I know that we will never, everbe the same.
No, come, see the faith inBethlehem, see the babe in
Bethlehem.
Crown Him Lord.
Let's celebrate the virginbirth.
Crown Him Lord.
Let's all get shot.
Meet in the night.
Crown Him Lord.
He grids to us eternal life.
(18:25):
Crown Him Lord.
Join in the mighty court.
Let's celebrate the Lord.
Let's lift up your voice andheart.
Come on, take apart, take apart.
Yeah, just that one glance uponHim.
(18:47):
I know that we will never, everbe the same.
No, crown Him Lord.
Let's crowd around the glorious.
Bring forth the Lord the gloryand honor.
It's due to Him.
(19:08):
We celebrate Jesus the Savior.
Yes, I love Him.
Jesus, I love Him.
Crown Him Lord.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah,
hallelujah, crown Him, lord.
It's my purpose, for whichthose guests were invited, and
(20:03):
that was to address, from mypersonal experience, what they
found the value, significanceand the benefits of singing and
choir, particularly during thisholiday season.
And the conversation began totake a little turn, to my
surprise, but we're grateful forit.
Anyway, here's part two withour conversation with our guests
from last week's episode.
Speaker 10 (20:25):
I just want to say that I think it's a very
important point to mention howrelational worship is not just,
like Peggy said, first of allvertically, but second of all,
to be, like you said, of oneaccord and feel like you're
connected and family and havethat fellowship.
(20:48):
Because I think aboutworshiping with 200 people and
knowing the individual storiesand being so ministered to,
because knowing that thisperson's husband just died about
a week ago and she's stillraising her hands to the Lord
and she's still giving theresponse to the Lord that you
know what God you're worthy inand blessed be the name of the
(21:10):
Lord.
And also thinking about Aliaand my relationship with her and
how she knew the worst parts ofme.
She still knows and I knowshe'll take them to the grave,
but she, you know, having thatrelationship and feeling that
connection during worship orwhen she was leading us, and how
it did feel so safe because wewere intimate in a way that she
(21:32):
was that we were able to iron,Iron, yeah, no, sharpen, sharpen
one another in ways where, youknow, a person with a surface
level relationship wouldn't beable to tell me something like
that.
I would take well knowing, likethe way that Alia loves me, she
(21:53):
could say something harsh to menot harsh, but like a strong
word in the Lord and, you know,make me think about whatever it
is that I need to think about,and so it's just such a
relational thing and I thinkthat that's really what I really
miss the most is the fellowship, and I have found that in the
(22:16):
current church that I'm at andit's just a small Baptist church
a couple blocks away from myhouse and I lead worship and
we're very close with the musicdirector and the other voices
and the instruments and I thinkthat it's such a blessing.
You know, regardless of thesize.
I went from this 200 personchoir and now the worship band
(22:39):
that I'm in has about 10 peoplemore or less, but there's still
that sentiment of like therelationship, because once we go
into worship you have thatfeeling of support where, like a
lot of times, if I'm leadingworship, the Lord will just
strike me down in some way andI'll break down and I'll just
(23:00):
give a look across and they'llknow and they'll raise their
voices.
And let me have a second to havea moment with the Lord.
And it's just a beautiful thingto operate within the body and
know that you've got that, notthat just that surface level
support, but like that intimatesupport where we know one
another's needs, we know whatwe're going through.
We have a very strong focus onthe heart in this church that
(23:25):
I'm in and we're constantlytouching on one another's
intimate lives.
How are you doing?
You know, and not just you know, like I said, not just surface,
but getting really deep intowhatever our needs are and where
we are spiritually, so that wecan make sure that we are all
spiritually growing and togetherand individually.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
You know I couldn't agree more.
I think the relational part of,Can you say?
Speaker 4 (23:52):
something, Greg, before you move on.
And it's very brief and it'smore about you, sir.
I'm listening to these youngwomen and men speak about TSC
and the fellowship and how thechoir of 200, you say right, at
least about 200 people singing.
Listening to them kind of makesme think that this is all a
(24:19):
great testament to yourleadership, sir.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
And you were my leader too at one time, long
time ago, and I certainly doappreciate that.
But just in just listening tothese voices here tonight, I
moved a bit and I don't getemotional about nothing, but I
have to say I am a bit of You'relaughing at me, dory.
(24:45):
I have to say I am a bit movedtonight listening to these young
women and this young man herespeak about the fellowship,
speak about the togetherness,the family that had to have come
through your leadership, and Iwant you to know you should be
(25:09):
commended for that and becausethis is awesome.
This really is.
I know this ain't got nothingto do with the podcast, but this
is awesome, and they weren'tcalled here for that either.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I know, I know.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
But I'm just listening and I'm thinking, just
you know, within my own head,like man, this dude is something
special that he was able to toexert or I shouldn't wouldn't
say I wouldn't use the wordexert, but just share and from
his heart, with all of thesepeople that he did not know.
(25:47):
You know, you did not know goingin, you had no idea of the
impact you would have had onthese lives.
But listening to these peopletonight, I want you to know, sir
, if you have not thought aboutit before, that you have had a
huge, huge impact, to the pointwhere they can't find it nowhere
else.
They're searching for all overthe globe.
(26:08):
They're in different parts ofthe country still looking for it
.
And I just want to commend andsay thank God for you, thank God
for you, thank God for yourleadership, thank God for
hearing God and being able tohear God and then say what God
says, to say, tells you to sayto them, because you have
impacted their lives, you have,you have helped them on their
(26:31):
journey and this is amazing.
I just wanted to say that Don'tyou dare cry, gregory.
Speaker 6 (26:37):
I just wanted to share that.
I'm going to chime in on thattoo, because I will.
I will second everything youjust said and I think that we
maybe take you for granted alittle bit, but it is not lost
on us, like just you as a personand how the Lord used you.
(27:01):
I mean, I could just tell youfrom my story I started going to
TSC and I just wanted to hidein the balcony and I loved the
big church.
I didn't want to be talking toanyone, I just want to be hiding
in the back and I wanted tolisten to that man on the piano
sing a song, just sing it.
I don't even want to sing withhim, I just want to hear it.
And I remember thinking like Iwant to learn from him.
(27:26):
And I don't know why it wasn'tanyone else on the platform and
I mean that's probably terribleto say, but it was you.
And when I got to be part ofthe choir it was probably.
It was like I got a lead roleon Broadway.
It was better than that for me,like getting a lead role on
Broadway, getting to work withyou and then getting to be your
(27:47):
assistant, which was a wholenother level of a story.
But through it and the HolySpirit orchestrated that and I
can't even like literally anaudible voice told me call and
see if there's a job at church.
And I remember thinking what inthe world?
That would be insane.
And I remember calling Misty andthen coming in for an interview
(28:07):
with you and I was like what,interviewing to assist you, and
it was just this crazy the waythe Lord worked it out.
But through you and yourfriendship, not just your
leadership, but just you as aperson, how the Lord used you.
I still talk about you topeople to this day because
(28:28):
you're one of the first peopleLeadership in a church that ever
listened to me, and not just me, but like my family and stories
that were hard to talk aboutwith people from church, and you
were the first person at achurch, in leadership, to listen
, and I still talk about you tothis day because that has been
(28:49):
so impactful, not just on me butmy whole family, which is crazy
because you haven't even met mywhole family.
But I just have to secondeverything she just said Because
you're probably one of thegreatest church leaders that
I've ever encountered and I havethe honor of calling you a
friend, which I know the Lord, Iknow he worked that out and
(29:13):
orchestrated all of that.
But I'm so thankful, just sothankful.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Well, thank you Alia, I'm gonna show you.
Speaker 10 (29:22):
I have a very similar okay go ahead.
Okay, okay, okay, no.
When I first went to TSC, Ialso sat up in the balcony and
as soon as that curtain went up,the Holy Spirit and I was brand
new, saved like just no fire.
I was like this is exactlywhere I need to be.
(29:42):
And it wasn't about anythingelse but that music ministry and
I know that it probably had alot to do with music because
I've always been involved inmusic but really, the testimony
of your leadership and how,years later, I'm still hearing
your voice in my head when I'mgoing through stuff, this is
much bigger than you.
(30:03):
This is much bigger.
Just continue.
A little lessons here and there, and the same exact thing that
Alia was saying how you listento us, you care for us, and it
was so much deeper.
It really like it shaped myentire walk.
It's not just musically, thebest training probably I've ever
(30:26):
had in my life but my walk withChrist has been so shaped by
you that you know it because Itext you here and there.
All the time you get my randomtext messages and it's because
that's what the Lord has donethrough you.
So I just I thank God for yourlife.
Speaker 8 (30:46):
I will add one little story in addition to Alia and
Maria's.
Back in 2007, I was consideringmoving to Los Angeles and the
thing that kept me in New Yorkthere were other things that
(31:07):
ended up keeping me in New York,which I hadn't anticipated, but
when I was considering doingthe move to LA, the thing that
was holding me back was Greg.
It was you.
It was Times Square Church, butit wasn't the church and it
wasn't the pastors.
It was you, and I know thatsounds funny, but it was you.
(31:32):
Because I was like I'm notgonna find this with this level
of talent and skill andspiritual maturity over there.
It's good, I mean, it mustexist, but to find it it would
be so difficult.
And so when I othercircumstances kept me here, but
(31:54):
it was you know if I, if I couldhave just moved, the thing that
stopped me was was you?
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Well, thanks, peggy, and all of you, aliya Maria.
You know, peggy, I remember youtrying to move.
Speaker 8 (32:08):
I was considering it.
I wasn't about to Do it, butthe thing that was holding me
back was I Need to be where Gregis.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Well, well, thanks again.
I remember speaking and prayingagainst that move, just like I
prayed for children for all ofmy married couples, for Misty
and Michelle and For alia, andthey all got married and all had
children, even Angel, who'shere.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
Yeah, well, wait, can I just jump in here really
quickly because you know Ihaven't seen Peggy or Margaret,
I always called her Peggy.
I know it's a good you keptPeggy there and not many people
will know this, but I worked inthe media entertainment Industry
(33:00):
and I didn't see many saved orChristian people in that
industry.
And when I found out that myfellow choir made on the alto
side because I was on thesoprano side, when I found out
that she was in media andWorking in the level that she
was working, first of all I wasblown away because she did not
fit the mole of what I had beenexposed to.
(33:23):
And here I am, you know,wanting to be there, was
struggling in this secularenvironment and not seeing
anyone who I could look to, whowas following Christ and
pursuing professional role.
So I didn't meet you till afterthis, we think it's.
I didn't get to know that aboutyou till after that, and so I'm
(33:45):
thankful that she was therebecause she has been.
Whether you know it or not,peggy, you have been a huge
Blessing to me, and I mean atrandom times I think about you
and how, what I would ultimatelyget to do you kind of late the
groundwork, for first you weresomeone who had integrity, who I
could look to to see Okay, god,you know I can be in these
(34:08):
spaces and maintain integrity.
And then you went a stepfurther.
I remember working on a project.
You hired me on a project whenI was In between jobs and I got
to to see you at work and bewith you and, while amazing
small to you, it was huge for me.
(34:30):
It came at a time where,emotionally and mentally, I
needed to be in that creativespace and I was struggling to
figure things out of where I washeaded and I think I was
fighting.
We got about where I was headedbecause ultimately I ended up
going to work for Greg, but andso but.
(34:52):
It was a huge piece that wouldbe a big part of a puzzle that I
would not even began to seetake shape until probably a
decade later.
And so when I look and see whatI've been able to do in the
last five years of my life, itall goes back to your influence
(35:13):
and your Handprint in my life.
So thank you for that.
Speaker 8 (35:20):
I.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Hope we got an answer to the CRQ.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
Oh, I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
Initially we were talking about.
You know singing.
What does it do for you, peggy?
Speaker 8 (35:39):
and our roommate in Scotland and.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
I had been running from leadership opportunities
because it was almost it was.
You know, it's more fun to bein the group than to be the
leader.
The leader takes the heat and Ijust started working at the
church and I went from going asa part of the team to the
mission strip to now leading theteam and I was facing probably
one of the biggest fears that Ihad been running from and Peggy
(36:05):
was my roommate.
I don't know if you rememberthis.
Yes, getting from New York CityTo Greenock, scotland, was
quite the ordeal, with that manypeople and I just greenock,
greenock.
Yes, I remember being sostressed.
And I also remember Then, firstnight, when I remember there's
(36:29):
a curtain or not, but when themusic started to play and we
started to worship, I remembercrying Because I was like, wow,
god, you know, here I was, I wasnot serving in joy, I was, but
once we started worshiping,everything lifted up off of me
and I remember feeling, okay,god, if I had to go through all
(36:51):
this To be here to get to dothis, I'm doing what I love, I'm
worshiping you, and when I doit, what I feel I Can't, you
can't find anywhere else, youcan't follow it up, you can't
buy it.
But that atmosphere of worshipand praise, and when everything
else that is on you is liftedand you say, okay, fine, I
(37:15):
surrender if I gotta do all ofthat just to get to do this, it
is so worth it because it's sucha beautiful moment in
atmosphere.
Speaker 10 (37:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Well, since we are so way off topic, I'm going I'm
gonna show a video now.
Our listeners won't be able tosee it, but you'll at least be
able to hear it, and then, ohwell, we'll talk a little bit
about this.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Back.
Speaker 9 (38:44):
Clean.
I find no fault in this man,the liar Radical.
He came to bring justice.
He's a liar.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
No Of last we were we must be killed For him to dance
.
He's a liar Of last we were.
We must be killed For him todance.
He's done something to peopleSpreading lies to out the land
From.
Speaker 9 (39:13):
Galilee to Jerusalem.
Do you not have a custom that aprisoner be freed at the
Passover?
Therefore, since I find nofault in this man Deserving of
death, I will chastise him andrelease him.
No, but he's a liar.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
No, Of last we were.
We must be killed.
For him to dance, but he's aliar Of last we were.
We must be killed For him todance.
Speaker 9 (39:38):
Away with him.
Give us Varabas Varabas.
No, bring forth the prisonerVarabas Varabas.
Is this the man you want freein your streets?
No, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Give us Varabas, this man whoincites rebellion and is a known
(40:03):
murderer.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yes, yes, yes yes, yes, no yes.
Speaker 9 (40:11):
Release him, or shall I release you, your King Jesus?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yesyes, yes, no, no.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
We have no King but Caesar.
Away with Caesar Varabas, yes,and what shall?
Speaker 9 (40:27):
I do with Jesus.
Call the Messiah.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Kill.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
That is our dear friend Chris Montelion, and this
was actually a productionentitled Sent by God, which is
an Easter production, not aChristmas one.
Now, our listeners probablyfigured that out based on the
content, but I wanted to cue itsince we were already off topic.
But yet on topic and the factthat we have Chris Montelion
(41:15):
with us.
Speaker 7 (41:16):
Chris, you know that was the first time that Andy and
I ever sang together, was doingthat at Easter production.
We had never sung together.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
You know, I remember you telling me that.
Speaker 7 (41:27):
Yeah, and that was the performance that changed my
life forever.
That's where I said I don'tknow.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Well, I think you've changed that role forever.
Nobody's done it since.
Obviously, what is done?
Speaker 9 (41:40):
right, what's done?
Speaker 1 (41:42):
I just remember the process and writing that piece,
that I didn't have a song forthat scene, and remember
thinking of you and Andy andsaid well, you know, let me, let
me come up with something thatworks for both of you.
And there you have it.
I think the title of the onethat she sang to you was called
(42:03):
the Dream.
That's right when she warns youwhy you shouldn't have anything
to do with this man.
Speaker 7 (42:09):
Yeah, oh, yeah, keep your hands clean.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Well, I will say this there is much more singing in
the future for all of you.
So you've gotten comfortable.
Don't get comfortable.
That's right.
You're not done.
Speaker 8 (42:24):
Actually, I said this to you already.
It was post-pandemic, I meanduring the pandemic, but I've
got witnesses here and I'vealready said this to you before.
But I really, really encourageyou to continue to write music
(42:47):
and arrange music.
Of course, it is a gift thatyou have, that we have all been
blessed to sing thosearrangements and those songs.
So please keep doing that.
Don't let I mean it's again.
This is awesome what you'redoing with the podcast and all
of that other stuff, but don't,don't let go of the actual
(43:12):
musical talent that you have,because, yeah, please don't and
include us.
You're doing it because I missit so much.
The sound is so different, thearrangements are so different.
I might and I, I, I miss youevery single time.
(43:32):
Every single time.
Like you know, we could singthis, similar notes and the same
songs, but the arrangements andthe way that you put that music
together it's it's totallydifferent and I miss it so much.
So please do not stop doingthat.
Speaker 5 (43:55):
That gospel thread, right, peggy?
Yeah, I think, look, I think,should we.
Should we work on a documentary?
Speaker 8 (44:04):
I just want to sing, well put.
Speaker 5 (44:07):
Give me the name of the documentary.
Speaker 8 (44:10):
I just want to sing Come on Food for the soul.
Speaker 7 (44:14):
Even when you were playing those clips, I started
crying.
It's just, it's home, it's home.
Speaker 8 (44:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (44:22):
Even my girls, my girls.
My oldest is 22 now and 22, 20and 19.
And they miss what they wereraised with, but they view as
being the leader of the of whatthey grew up on.
They can walk into a church and, within the first song, go.
(44:43):
Not there.
They have discernment nowbecause of you.
It's your fault.
Listen to the Holy Spirit andthey're trained.
They are just.
That's what their desire is.
They want to worship, and thankyou for that, Greg, just thank
you.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Thank you, chris, for those kind of words, and thank
all of you for joining ustonight.
We will have to get you back toaddress the CRQ in full and
then we'll talk about some ofthe things that we have coming
up in 2024.
A very Merry Christmas to allof you and your families.
Speaker 8 (45:19):
Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas everyone.
Thanks, greg.
Speaker 5 (45:24):
Thank you so much, merry.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Christmas Bye.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
To our listeners.
Merry Christmas to you and wewill be back with you with a new
episode and a new season in thecoming year.
And remember, if ever we putthe messenger before the message
, we have failed to present anunblemished gospel.
I'm Greg Thomas.
Join us again next time here inthe Choir Room.
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