What creates lasting community in a world of increasing isolation? Musician, vocalist, composer, teacher, and choir director Keith Childress has discovered the answer through decades of choir leadership spanning continents, cultures, and generations.
When a remarkable opportunity took him to Oral Roberts University as part of the World Action Singers, he found himself performing alongside legends like Aretha Franklin and Teddy Pendergrass—a divine appointment that transformed his trajectory. Now teaching first through twelfth graders, Childress brings innovative approaches to music education.
Greg finds himself in the minority amongst his co-hosts and guest (you'll have to listen to figure out why), but they have an engaging conversation while attempting to answer the episodes' CRQ.
Have you experienced the transformative power of singing in community? Share your story with us at thechoirroom@metromusic-arts.com or through our Facebook page, and discover why, as our hosts affirm, choir matters now more than ever.
Perpetuating and Promoting the Christian and Positive Idea Through the Medium of Music and Other Arts.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Choir Room.
This is episode 42 of the ChoirRoom Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to the Choir.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Room.
I'm Greg Thomas, your host, andI'll soon be joined by my
co-hosts, dorian Johnson Welcometo the Choir Room and Mietta
Stansel-Farrar.
This podcast exists to promoteand encourage two longtime
traditions in our society thatseem to be dwindling away, and
(00:31):
that is choir and corporatesinging.
We hope to revive theexcitement and joy experienced
with singing in a choir, as wellas inform and educate the
listener on all things singingand all things choir and this
podcast is a production of MetroMusic and Arts, whose purpose
is to perpetuate and promote theChristian and positive idea
through the medium of music andother arts.
(00:52):
Last episode, we shared withyou that we're going to continue
our outreach to schools,colleges and universities, and
we'll get to hear from some ofthose teachers and professors
some best practices, tips on howthey conduct their rehearsals,
how they encourage students toget involved in choir quartets
(01:12):
ensembles.
We'll also talk to some of thestudents and hear about their
experiences and how beinginvolved in choir and some of
the performing arts programs haschanged the trajectory of their
lives.
We often talk about the valueand the importance and the
significance of being involvedin choir and singing with an
aggregation of people here onthis podcast and you'll get to
(01:34):
hear it firsthand from some ofthe school teachers, college
professors and the universitychoir directors.
Now, if you or someone you knowis involved in any one of those
areas, we'd love to talk to youand perhaps interview you here
in the choir room.
You can email us atthechoirroom, at
metromusic-artscom, or you cancontact us through the choir
(01:55):
room Facebook page.
Now, speaking of the Facebookpage, we're going to begin to
populate that a little morefrequently with our CRQs each
week, and the CRQ again is achoir room question.
These are questions that aresent to us by our listeners and
we try to address them in eachepisode of the podcast.
We acknowledge that we don'thave all the answers, and so we
encourage our listeners toengage in the CRQ via our
(02:18):
Facebook page.
Now be sure to like the page,share the page and subscribe to
the page and this podcast sothat your friends and colleagues
know that you're in the ChoirRoom.
Welcome to the Choir Room.
He's a musician, vocalist,songwriter, recording artist and
(02:42):
a choir director.
Our guest this episode in thechoir room Keith Childress.
Before Keith joins us, dorianhas our Hymn of the Week.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Thanks, greg.
This week's Hymn of the Week isthe Church's One Foundation.
In Acts, chapter 3, peter andJohn are in the temple, and
Peter and John encounter a lameman who is begging and they heal
him of his lameness.
(03:29):
They then go about preaching inthe temple and are eventually
arrested and brought before thecouncil.
And in their interaction withthe council they make a staunch
defense of the gospel and theirpreaching to the people.
And as they are doing this,peter says this in verse 10 of
(03:53):
chapter 4.
Let it be known to all of youand to all the people of Israel
that, by the name of JesusChrist of Nazareth, whom you
crucified, whom God raised fromthe dead by him, this man is the
Lord, jesus Christ and thechurch is the body.
(04:23):
Jesus Christ and the church isthe body of Christ and, as Peter
states in his defense, christis the cornerstone and the
foundation of the church.
This hymn was written inresponse to a controversy that
arose in the Anglican churchduring the late 19th century,
where both the accuracy of someof the events of the Bible and
(04:44):
some articles of the Christianfaith were questioned.
And in response to thiscontroversy, samuel John Stone
wrote this hymn in 1866, basedon Article 9 of the Apostles'
Creed, which states the beliefin the holy Catholic Church,
where Catholic means the trueChristian church of all times
(05:06):
and all places, stating onceagain that there is a common
communion of the saints.
This hymn has six verses and wewon't go through all six verses
, but I would commend this hymnto you to listen to a recording.
But I want to give highlightsof the first three verses in
particular, because they speakto specific portions of
(05:29):
scripture.
In Colossians, 1.18, we read andhe, referring to Christ, is the
head of the body, the church.
He is the beginning, thefirstborn from the dead, that in
everything he might bepreeminent.
And in verse 1, we read thechurch's one foundation is Jesus
Christ, her Lord.
(05:49):
She is his new creation bywater and the word From heaven
he came and sought her to be hisholy bride.
With his own blood he boughther and for her life he died.
Own blood he bought her and forher life he died.
In Ephesians, chapter 4, verses4 through 6, we read there is
(06:10):
one body and one spirit, just asyou were called to the one hope
that belongs to your call.
One Lord, one faith, onebaptism, one God and Father of
all, who is over all and throughall and in all.
In verse 2, we read elect fromevery nation, yet one or all the
(06:31):
earth, her charter of salvationone Lord, one faith, one birth,
one holy name.
She blesses, partakes, one holyfood and to one hope she
presses with every grace endued.
And then, as we go through otherparts of this hymn, it talks
(06:51):
about the scorn that the churchreceives from the world.
It talks about the internaldebates and schisms that occur
within the church and ultimately, in verse 6, it points to the
church's union with Christ.
(07:29):
And in verse 6, we read In thishour where so many truths of
Scripture and the truth of thechurch is under attack and we
see so many divisions within thechurch as well, and we see so
many divisions within the churchas well, may we once again look
(07:58):
to Christ, who is the church'sone foundation.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Welcome to the Quiet Room.
Keith Childress, our guest forthis episode, and we're just
going to let our hair down for alittle while.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I just realized.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
You're in the minority.
Greg, You're in the minority.
I have my pullback.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Oh my goodness, Greg, You're in the minority.
I have to pull back.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Oh my goodness, I'm going to put my hair up.
Moving right along.
We haven't been in the companyof one another for many years.
We both were involved in arecording project many years ago
with Revival Temple Mass Choirand I won't say how many many
was, but it was a long time ago,to say the least and with the
(08:47):
advent of the internet, we'vebeen able to follow each other's
work over the years and I'm soglad to have this great man in
the choir room.
Keith Childress, welcome, thankyou.
Thanks so much for your yes andagreeing to join us.
I trust that you are well.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Doing great, thank you.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
You know, during the time of that recording I
remember being in a very unusualplace.
The timing was just difficultfor me because I think I was in
my first or second year ofcollege.
What was life like for you atthat time?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I had recently just returned back home to New Jersey
from being in living inOklahoma for 13 years Because I
went to Robert RobertsUniversity and I stayed after
graduating.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Let's talk about that experience at the Oral Roberts
University, because most of thisgeneration won't know the Oral
Roberts University.
How did you end up there?
Did you choose it or did itchoose you?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
It was from being in New Jersey that I ended up there
because I had a choir MontclairState.
I was the director of MontclairState Gospel Choir back in the
day and we traveled around and Ibecame friends.
I was a part of Church of Godin Christ and I became friends
(10:00):
with David Lawrence, who he hada choir at what's this Newark
State?
They changed it to King Collegeso, but then he started telling
me about an opening because youknow they had.
Well, just to make it plain,they had, it was five black
(10:21):
people in the group.
So Carlton Pearson was leavingto go on tour with his ministry.
He was leaving school to go out.
He had a ministry of his own,so he was leaving school.
So that space opened up.
So David told me about that.
I sent my little cassette tapethere and they called me one day
(10:45):
and said you need to come outtomorrow to audition.
I'd never flown on a planebefore anything and at that time
it was at four o'clock in theafternoon when I found out and
the flight was the next morningso the banks would be closed.
But you know what?
I had taken $100 out to a loanto a friend of mine Look how the
(11:06):
Lord works.
And at that time, just to flythe next day, it cost $138.
So my parents gave me the $38.
I flew there.
My head was stomped up becauseI didn't know about swallowing,
I'd never flown on a planebefore and in my audition my
(11:30):
friend David was there and heplayed and he was modulating and
I said, oh Lord, please don'tlet me go flat.
And the director of the grouphis name was Gordon Twist, a
little short man with a ton ofmusic in him.
He was amazing.
He said, oh, you didn't go flatonce and that was God letting
me know I'm with you.
I got you.
I went home, flew back home thatnight and I could still see as
(11:55):
I talk about, I could still seethe puddle of tears, puddle of
tears on the floor.
My mother and father were inbed that night and my mother
said, oh, baby, you made it.
And I just stood there andtears.
It was a puddle, I was just.
It was.
That was my.
I was telling my wife duringthis summer, during the Olympics
(12:15):
.
I said that was my OlympicsBecause it opened doors for me.
It exposed me to so muchsinging with people like Aretha
Franklin, and even TeddyPendergrass was on one of our
specials and just going to flyto LA doing singing in the
studio, doing pre-records andfilming and all of those things,
(12:39):
doing TV tapings every monthand I kind of had a full
scholarship.
Wonderful Room board books,lord Jesus.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
So you mentioned traveling and recording.
This wasn't one of the regularchoirs of the university correct
.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Well, this was not just a choir, this was the World
Action Singers, this was a TVgroup.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Ah, gotcha.
Okay, I see the differencethere.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Because they had other choirs.
That's why I'm distinct.
Yeah, okay, I see thedifference there.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
That's why I'm distinct.
Yeah, I knew they had differentgroups there.
What is your affiliation oryour connection with Donnie
Harper and New Jersey Mass Choir?
Did you sing with them?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
No, but he was the musician at my church.
Ah, okay, gotcha.
Before I went to Church of Godand Christ, I was at Zion Hill
Baptist Church, gotcha,hawthorne Avenue and Osborne
Terrace.
That's where I came out of thewomb and he was at our church.
(13:33):
And Liam Lumpkins was alsothere at our church, liam, was
really a great influence in mylife.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, I know choir is a big part of who you are, so
tell us where it started for you.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
It started when I was a little boy.
I loved the choir.
I was like five years old.
My brothers, there's five boysin my family- and where do you
fall in those five?
So I'm number four.
The first three were born realclose together.
Then I came five years later.
My little brother came sixyears after me.
(14:06):
So I'm up in the front, ofcourse, sitting with mommy and
my three older brothers.
They're in the balcony.
So in the car my brother saidwe were so embarrassed Because
the whole church was looking atme Because I'm a little kid down
in the front of the church.
They're in the balcony, thebalcony's laughing at me.
I'm just going wild.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Well, wild about what .
What's happening?
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I loved it and I don't know how to be restrained,
so my love for choir startedfrom the very moment I heard
choir church, I loved it.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
So when did you start playing piano for the church,
and was it this church?
Speaker 3 (14:46):
No, it's funny, I never got to play for the church
.
I grew up in A play.
Well, we call it play on, butwe call it Ambula because
they're my parents and my bestfriends.
So one time they always call medownstairs, like when people
come over the house, keith, comeand play an organ for Ambula,
or whatever.
So Ambula was over there and Icome and play the organ for
Ambula, or whatever.
So Ambula was over there and Icame and played the organ.
(15:07):
She said well, you know, I'mgoing to talk to Reverend Irvin
because we need an organist forthe junior choir.
So that's at Tabernacle BaptistChurch in Newark.
So at the age of 15, I startedplaying for Tabernacle Baptist
Church Wow, and that started mymusic ministry.
(15:28):
And also that same year and Idon't know to this day, deacon
Childress and Sister Childress,let me do this.
But I played in a band too.
Okay, I started playing in aband and we played.
First we started out with theCYO, the Christian Youth
Organization.
Then we started playing.
We played in places like theCheetah and we opened.
We're down at the RKO.
(15:49):
We opened for, like, theDelphonics Cooling the Game.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Okay, so these aren't churches and this clearly
wasn't a church band.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
No, oh, no, this was full version, funk Okay.
So that's why I said I don'tknow how mom and daddy say yes,
but it was awesome.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
But it opened you up and exposed you to various forms
of music and expanded yourmusicality, if you will.
Now you would go on to be apart of choirs and singing
groups.
You'd go on to form groups andchoirs and direct them as well.
How would you describe thevalue and the importance, the
significance, of being involvedin choir?
(16:35):
What are the pros for you?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
There's a camaraderie , there's a team.
You feel like you're part of ateam, a belonging.
You know that these kids, a lotof times they get in these
gangs because there's somethingthey belong to.
People go to differentlifestyles because they've been
embraced by a group and so youfeel there's a, even even in
(17:00):
your section, blending togetherwith the tennis section.
You know, sometimes you like tostand by a certain person.
You become a part of that thingand then you're learning, even
even if you might be livingcrazy at that time.
You know, because we've got togrow, but you're, you're singing
the word and that's how faithcomes.
(17:20):
The Bible says faith comes byhearing, and hearing by the word
of God and even singing theword.
And that's how faith comes.
The Bible says faith comes byhearing, and hearing by the word
of God and even singing theword.
There are times when you'realone.
You start singing and thinkingabout what you're singing about.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
You're also working with first grade through 12th
grade, I think, teaching anddirecting choir.
What does it do for you andwhat is it that you see on the
faces of those young people?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
That means a lot to me because, you know, just
because I'm at a Christianschool, everybody doesn't go to
church, sure.
So we have an experience where,at Christmas, we we sing out.
This was the first time I tookthe group out from the school
this is my sixth year at thisparticular school and we've only
(18:05):
done the Christmas concert andthe spring concert but we went
to a church and did ourChristmas concert and we started
singing Revelation 19.
Hallelujah, and I said thepower of the Lord was moving in
that place.
(18:25):
I looked at the kids.
I said y'all haven't seen thisside of Mr Children's.
This is who I really am.
And to see how God was movingand how they're getting exposed
to it.
Whether they're churched orunchurched, they were being
exposed to the presence of Godand what he does and how he
moves and how he changes theatmosphere.
(18:46):
So they're getting used to thatand they they're hearing.
I pray with them every day and,uh, one of the kids and I always
end my prayer with that umscripture from Psalms look that
the words of my mouth and themeditations of my heart be
acceptable in your sight.
Oh Lord, my strength and myredeemer.
One of my kids.
He was at the other school, asI said before, so he's been here
since he was in kindergartenand he could quote it.
(19:08):
He said why do you always endyour prayer with that?
I said because I want the Lordto be even in what the thing I
think, what I ponder on.
And I said you know something,you know a scripture, what I
ponder on.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
And I said you know something, you know a scripture,
and you don't even know thatyou know a scripture All right,
all right, all right, all right,all right, all right, all right
, all right, all right, allright, all right, all right, all
(19:43):
right, all right, all right,all right, all right.
We just cannot get out.
We just cannot get out.
We just cannot get out.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
We just cannot get out the track it's Gonna Be All
Right by Keith Childress, andthat part is in Swahili.
So, speaking of Swahili, tellus where else, outside of the
school and the church, yourmusic has taken you.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Well, actually it's been to Africa, to Europe, to
several countries in Africa.
In fact I had the pleasure ofgoing with a group doing the
first freedom celebration forSouth Africa, I think that was
1995.
And we were there for aboutthree weeks and they were so it
(20:28):
was so.
It was funny because they saidare you a Black American?
I said yes, and they and theyoung lady said, may I hug you?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I said yes, she hugged me.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
She said I hugged a Black American.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
That's a first, I hope, the black.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
American, but they, they were so happy because they
knew that we we protested and wedid things that helped them get
their freedom, that we were ontheir side, Gotcha, so they that
helped.
So that happened so manydifferent times that I was
(21:01):
confronted with that.
It was such a joy.
It was such a joy.
It was such a joy.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
You know, when I've traveled to Africa and some
other countries as well, I'malways looking for indigenous or
authentic worship to thatculture.
Did you find the impact ofWestern culture as prominent
then in Christian music or choirmusic as we see it today?
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Yeah, they in South Africa they can sing Lord, have
mercy and it, and they sing someof the same things that we,
that we sing, but they havetheir own, their own songs.
I remember being in Swazilandand they were singing and they
would, but when they they wereenjoying it, but when they would
(21:46):
the language, then they wouldthe same song.
They may be singing somethingby Israel Horton, then they
would start singing it in theirlanguage.
And you're talking about a move, a it was like a shift.
They would go in and Iespecially love to hear it in
(22:06):
South Africa because they havethe clicks in their language and
it just sounds so beautiful.
But there would be such a shiftwhen they would go into their
language.
And they are worshipers InZimbabwe, oh my God, there's a
church called Celebration Church.
The pastors are both white,their husband and wife.
(22:28):
In fact, the female pastor thereason I ended up there because
she sang with me in World ActionSingers at All Rocks University
and they moved when they.
She went to Christ for theNations after that.
Then she got married real quickand then they moved to South
Africa, raised all of their kidsin South Africa Not South
(22:49):
Africa, I mean Zimbabwe andtheir church.
You're talking about worship.
It is unbelievable.
In fact I was talking I'msupposed to be recording on a
label, fresh Wind new label.
It'll be distributed by MGM,but that's one on the plan, by
(23:12):
God's grace, to record at thatchurch a celebration church in
South Africa.
I keep calling it South Africa.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Zimbabwe.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
In Zimbabwe.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
South Africa, zimbabwe, zimbabwe.
Yeah, actually it's interestingthat you mentioned sort of this
connection to the past and, asGreg was introducing us and
letting you know about what wedo on the podcast, I actually
usually or I usually do the hymnof the week, and so I take an
opportunity to take a hymn andstudy the author and the writer
of it and talk about itsconnection to the Word of God.
(23:50):
And so, as you are working withyoung people, how do you go
about sort of connecting them tothe hymns of the past, perhaps,
or maybe some of the anthems ofthe past, and how do you see
their response to that?
Because oftentimes, if theyknow that they're singing
(24:13):
something that's 50 years old or60 years old, they
automatically sort of want toreject it.
But if you just introduce it tothem and then they find out how
old it is, it can often have adifferent impact.
Have you had that experience atall?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Well, you know, I think a lot of people send their
kids to Christian schoolsbecause they feel they're safer
for some reason.
So I'm saying that because alot of times they don't know
what's old because they knowmore about secular music than
they know about gospel music, sothey're not like the church
(24:50):
church kids.
So we know whatever the latestthing is Maverick City is doing
or something like that.
Because I play the song that Iwritten by Micah Stampley, and I
asked have you heard of MicahStampley?
No, they don't know who MicahStampley is.
You want to say you don't knowwhat church people are.
(25:15):
You can't say that.
You have to say, oh okay, so Iget to teach them different
things, and they don't.
They just they like it.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
I imagine you taught your kids the song All Right,
it's catchy, it's easy.
How did they respond to that?
Speaker 3 (25:34):
I started teaching it a couple of years ago, but I
started teaching recently andI'm teaching them.
I don't even though on the inthis cause, I did the video in
Zimbabwe.
So when, um, when TimberTimbalami started singing, he
sang in Shona, but when my, whenI first wrote it, my friend in
(25:54):
South Africa translated it forme into Zulu, so I started
teaching them.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
the song is Zulu I bet they learned to love that,
yeah, at first they start tolove that.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Yeah, at first they start making faces.
And so what?
I tell them because most of allthe kids in my choir are black.
So I said you know what?
And I don't want to hearanybody laughing at any of these
languages, because if it wasn'tfor slavery, you'd probably be
speaking these languages Forsure.
So I said when you start doingthat, that's ignorance.
(26:26):
You're not ignorant, you'regoing to do great things.
I want you to get used to thewhole world.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, yeah my question is have you always
taught in Christian schools?
Have you ever taught in well, Ihate to call it a secular
school, but you know, outside ofthe Christian education have
have you taught in any otherschool?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
No, I haven't.
No, I haven't.
Actually, seemingly it evenhappened by accident, because I
never thought in a million yearsthat I would be teaching in any
school.
And what happened?
My son was in a Christianschool and they would have me
come once a month.
(27:08):
They started out, they foundout I was a worship leader so
I'd come and lead worship andthey would give me a discount, a
little take off his tuition.
I want to do that every week.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
You become a regular, I said I'm going to do that
every week.
Come on, you become a regular.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
I'm serious.
I was going to ask you now, doy'all need me to come?
But what happened?
The people that were doing themusic, I don't know.
You know stuff happens inchurch and I don't know to this
day all the things that happen.
But then I was going to askthem.
It's funny, I was going to askhim.
It's funny, I was going to askhim.
You know, I'll come and dojanitorial work if that'll help.
(27:48):
And then, but the spirit of thelord said, no, I'll put
something else in you.
There's nothing wrong,janitorial, but I gave you
something else that you can takeand I, I went there and it just
so happened that situation cameabout.
And then next thing, I knew Iwas the music director at that
school, the first school, and soI never thought I'd be teaching
(28:13):
Then I never thought I'd beteaching little kids.
My wife was telling me oh no,you got that.
I said, no, I don't, but I loveit.
And I have my first graders.
Like for the Christmas concert,I taught the first graders I'll
teach no, what you usually wantto have the Christmas concert.
(28:33):
I'll teach the first gradersthe melody and I'll teach the
second graders the harmony.
Interesting, and as we getclose to the time we bring it
together, we do a few trainwrecks and then we get on track.
Very interesting, but I neverthought back to the question.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
I know I'm doing these rabbit trails, but no,
it's actually very interestingbecause, having taught the same
age groups, I've never thoughtto give one class one part of
the harmony and another classthe other part of the harmony.
Essentially, I was teachingharmony to every class, but
sometimes having multiple choirswithin the student body, but
(29:13):
then still having them singtogether on certain songs.
So we just learned a differentapproach, thank you.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Ouch, thank you, because a lot of the first
graders they had never sunganything but they were in
kindergarten to sing in unisonRight.
So to introduce and thenexplain to them, and then I also
teach them a song called theorchestra song.
Have you ever heard that?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Maybe, if I heard it.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Well, there's one, the violins ring.
Oh yes, oh yes, I'm familiarwith that exercise.
And there's one, the violin'sringing.
Oh yes, oh yes, I'm familiarwith that exercise and all those
different parts, and then Istart explaining about what
harmony is, and I talk aboutblending and all that, and then
you know, little kids try toscream.
Oh no, no, in Mr Children'sclass we never scream, we never.
(30:01):
So they know not to scream,awesome.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
It's interesting to hear about all your different
experiences and I guess you sortof have a captive audience in
your classroom.
I guess you sort of have acaptive audience in your in your
classroom, but as you've donerecordings and had different
(30:38):
groups and things like that,what have you, I guess, found
has been the best way to keepthat group together as as one?
Because I'm not in therecording industry Greg and
Mieta can speak to that but it'svery easy sometimes for the big
eyes to show up and people seekto promote themselves.
How have you found the bestways to keep that from happening
with the groups that you'veworked with?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
you've worked with, when you do more than just sing,
when you care about people,when you share your, your, your
uh wins and your losses, whenyou just when you're vulnerable
to one another and you show thatyou genuinely care about you.
I can't come to rehearsal or Ican't come disengagement because
blah, blah, blah that, oh nowhat, what.
You can't come to rehearsal orI can't come to this engagement
because blah, blah, blah that,oh no what.
You can't come.
You know what's going on mymother's sick or something, or I
(31:32):
can't pay my bills.
I have to work extra hard andwe care, we give.
I think that really keepspeople together because it's
that sense of community, thesense of belonging, the sense
that someone loves me, someonecares about me, for more than
what I can do if I can't doanything for them that they care
about.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Amen Thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
We often talk about that regarding our groups and
groups and community, groups andgroups and community, and I
often say I made a statementonce before to Greg and Dorian
about I have a group and we'reapproaching about 30 years.
We're approaching 30 years ofministry this year and one of
the things I had shared withthem that this group of people
(32:16):
they come to my house and theyjust kind of take over my house
and we laughed about that.
But it is such a true statementthat we genuinely care for one
another and care about what goeson in their lives outside of
the music, and I've alwaysthought it to be important, but
(32:42):
it's more important today thanit was 30 years ago.
Yes, so to hear you say thatI'm not too far off.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Are you?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
related to Lorraine.
I am, I'm her niece.
Okay, I know.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Lorraine.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Well who doesn't know ?
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Lorraine Stamps or Lawson who doesn't know her?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
yeah, but I do have a question about because you're a
writer, composer, do you have aspecific?
I guess, if you've been doingit as long as you have, you just
do it because you love it, butdo you have a specific targeted
audience?
Or have you ever thought aboutan audience you know?
Speaker 3 (33:30):
what I get asked that question when we get ready to
record, not a question.
They say no, you have toremember who are you targeting.
I've never been able to answer.
When I'm trying to choose songsI'm like because if I do this
then I'm going to be pigeonholedto do this, because I like
(33:52):
something contemporary, I likesomething traditional, I like
him.
So you know, when you'rewriting and you want to like, I
want to show everybodyeverything I do.
They sing like you're notsupposed to do that.
You're supposed to.
So what do you do?
That's hard to me.
That's a hard thing for me.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
I can believe that I can relate to that to our
listening audience.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
The three pieces of music you've been hearing
playing underneath are writtenby Keith and you can tell that
they are three different stylesof music and so he's got a
well-rounded repertoire.
But, keith, before we go intoour CRQ and we want you to stick
around for that and chime in onthat give our listening
audience some final thoughts onthe value, the importance, the
(34:43):
significance of singing in choir.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
You don't have to be this great leader, but you know
you have the sense of picture.
You want to sing in the choir.
There's that community andthat's that coming together, the
gathering of singing to theLord together and you're
encouraging the congregation,You're encouraging one another,
you're encouraging yourselfbecause you're singing back to
(35:07):
yourself those things that are,and you're exalting the Lord.
It is a.
It's a great, great opportunityto be a part of the choir and
then you're being, you'relearning about vocal technique.
You know you're not getting avocal lesson per se, but you're
learning some things.
You're learning Because I wastelling my kids about day
(35:28):
crescendos and crescendos, andyou don't just let the note fall
out like a gumball and they'llfinish.
They'll finish my sentence.
I do it at the country, so theparents know that I am teaching
something and so I say practicedoesn't make perfect.
Then you hear all the kids inunison perfect, practice makes
(35:49):
perfect.
And I'll say singers are.
And there come thinkers.
Because I tell them thatsingers are thinkers.
You have to think about thepitch.
You have to think about thewords.
You have to think about how tophrase the words.
You have to think about how toexpress the words.
You have to think about how toexpress the words, the day
crescendos and the crescendos,and you have to think about even
(36:09):
the rest and the breathing andall that.
And you have to think aboutresonance, how to project your
voice through the mask of yourface a whole lot of stuff.
So you got to think about a lotof things.
And it's just impactful whenyou're together with people and
then you see God move, you seeGod doing things in the
(36:29):
congregation, you see God movingthrough somebody in the choir
who may be going through theymay have just lost a child, a
loved one and you see God moveand God heal and God massage,
and so there's just things thatwe know about each other.
I used to do one of the choirsI had before we even had
(36:50):
rehearsal.
I would call it a scriptureshower and we would all just
come together, differentscriptures that different ones
would say, and every time therewas somebody going through a
situation where that scripturewas the answer, that scripture
blessed them and gave themstrength to go on.
So you have strength in numberswhen you're together with one
(37:13):
mind and being in a choir, whenyou can do those kinds of things
and you can be vulnerable toone another.
It's really a great impactfulexperience, Indeed.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Keith, tell our listeners where they can find
your music and more about you.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
All the platforms, on Amazon, on Apple Music, and I
guess I was about to say thewrong word.
I was about to say StyrofoamSpotify Spotify.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Spotify.
Spotify, not styrofoam.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Keith Childress Mietta is going to take us to
our CRQ.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Thanks, greg.
Today's CRQ sound before sight.
Let's keep that in mind.
Sound before sight is a phraseI've heard from my church choir
director.
Now that I'm in universitychoir, I realize that the
importance of it.
But our director is pushingsight and sound.
(38:19):
Can you elaborate on thedifference in how one is better
than the other?
Now, listener, we have a coupleof views on this question
tonight or today.
There's a real, there's a realpolitical.
It's a nice, nicely politicalanswer, and then a couple of us
(38:42):
have gone extremely carnal andcame came about this in a
different direction.
My interpretation of this umparticular question is, um,
sound meaning how you vocallysound and sight being how you
(39:06):
look, sounding like you sound.
If that makes any sense and Ihope I'm making sense in that,
um, I personally they both gohand in hand.
I think that, whoever thedirector is, I think they're
right in pushing for both sight,sight and sound.
You should look, uh, visually,like you're enjoying yourself
(39:27):
and you believe what it isyou're singing.
That's how you should look.
You should look like you'rehaving the best time ever, and
it doesn't matter what genre ofmusic you're singing Could be it
gospel, be it secular, be itclassical, whatever it is, you
should look like you're havingthe best time ever and have the
(39:48):
skill to sound like you'rehaving the best time ever and
have the skill to sound likeyou're having the best time ever
at the same time.
So that's my short answer, butI'm sure we're going to talk
about this a little longer thanmy answer.
So what say you, gentlemen?
Speaker 4 (40:03):
Well, I agree with you, Mietta, in interpreting
this in the way that youinterpret it.
But it is interesting that theend of the question says can you
elaborate on the difference inhow one is better than the other
?
And I would say that sight andsound are important.
However, I think we're in anage where it has become about
(40:29):
performance, and so it's becomeabout how you can attract
attention, how you can have thebest moves, how all of these
other things in addition to thesound and I would say, in
addition to that, it's what it'sthe words that you're singing
as well, because I mean, you canhave the right sound, you can
(40:57):
look the right way, but if thewords that you're singing aren't
impacting people, then it's allfor naught.
So I don't know if I'venecessarily answered the
question about how one is betterthan the other, answered the
question about how one is betterthan the other.
I do see both as important, butI can also see where we've
(41:17):
definitely seen the pushing ofthe envelope about how a choir
is supposed to look and whatthey're supposed to do when
they're singing as a group.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Well, I'm going to defer to our guest and stand
down for a moment, because Itotally didn't interpret the
question the way you guys did.
So I'm going to let him go, andif I deem it necessary
afterwards, I'll lend my twocents.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
I think they're equally important on the way
that the last two gave.
I think they're equallyimportant because you can sound
good and look a hot mess andyou're not expressing your face.
So that's one thing.
So that's one thing.
In my experience doing the TV,we had mirrors in our rehearsal
room, wall-to-wall mirrors, sothat the words that we say, our
(42:18):
expressions, would match thosewords, because we're reaching
out to millions of people.
So it was important what welooked like and that we were
expressing to them.
So it was important what welook like and that we were
(42:38):
expressing to them, that we werereaching out with our ministry
of song to all of those millionsof people.
So that was important and Ithink you're going to take the
side of sight reading.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Well, you know they beat me up so bad offline
because of my interpretation ofthe question that I'm not sure I
want to even answer it at thispoint.
But here's my thought.
I'm sorry, keith, were you done?
Speaker 3 (42:58):
Yes, all right.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
So here was my interpretation of the question.
First, let me say I agree withall of you.
I agree that you need to lookthe part as much as you need to
sound the part.
I don't think they're equal.
However, I think you need tosound well, because if you don't
sound well, it doesn't matterwhat you look like.
People are going to rememberwhat you sound like.
(43:19):
They'll get past what you looklike, but if you sound that as a
choir, they're going toremember that forever.
So to Dorian's point.
No doubt we are in an age wherethere seems to be an increased
focus on the outward appearance.
And that's from the platform tothe pew, from the stage to the
door, and many choirs haveforsaken the choir robe or even
(43:42):
any kind of choir uniform andnow it's become as you are and
unfortunately with that we'vegotten holy jeans and spandex to
index.
I mean everything you know.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
But did you say spandex to index?
Speaker 1 (43:58):
I ran out of words, but everything in between as
well.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
We call it flesh on parade where I come from.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
It's like nothing is out of bounds, you know a little
less the flash thing.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
So what you're saying , greg, is bring back the choir
room.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
I am all for it.
In many cases now, when I readthe question, I interpreted it
differently, because the writersaid sound before sight is a
phrase I've heard from my churchchoir and now that I'm in
university choir I realize theimportance of it.
But our director is pushingsight and sound.
(44:36):
So now that you are inuniversity choir, sight and
sound are likely equallyimportant to your choir director
, meaning that it's part of yourgrade that you learn to sight
read, and it's also part of yourgrade that you learn to sight
read and it's also part of yourgrade that you learn to perform
well, sound, well, learn thetechniques that he or she is
(44:57):
teaching.
So clearly I'm in the minoritywith this question's
interpretation and maybe withhair.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
That's not what they were asking.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Well, at least we answered the question from every
angle, and so we're going toask the person who sent the
question in to write us againand tell us what you meant.
Hopefully we answered yourquestion.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
Well, listeners, you have received a wealth of
information tonight.
Prayerfully, we were able toassist you in furthering the
gospel through Saul.
Stay the course beloved,because choir matters.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Yes, choir matters and we couldn't agree more To
our listeners.
Be sure to go to iTunes, amazonMusic, spotify or wherever you
go to get your music.
Pick up the track All Right byKeith Childress, our guest.
Pick up the track All Right byKeith Childress, our guest.
And, as a reminder to ourlisteners, if you haven't done
so already, subscribe, share andlike this podcast and tell a
(45:58):
friend that you were in thechoir room.
And remember, if ever we putthe messenger before the message
, we have failed to present anunblemished gospel.
I'm Greg Thomas.
Join us again next week righthere in the choir room.
Welcome to the Choir Room.
This is episode 42 of the ChoirRoom Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to the Choir.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Room.
I'm Greg Thomas, your host, andI'll soon be joined by my
co-hosts, dorian Johnson Welcometo the Choir Room and Mietta
Stansel-Farrar.
This podcast exists to promoteand encourage two longtime
traditions in our society thatseem to be dwindling away, and
(00:31):
that is choir and corporatesinging.
We hope to revive theexcitement and joy experienced
with singing in a choir, as wellas inform and educate the
listener on all things singingand all things choir and this
podcast is a production of MetroMusic and Arts, whose purpose
is to perpetuate and promote theChristian and positive idea
through the medium of music andother arts.
(00:52):
Last episode, we shared withyou that we're going to continue
our outreach to schools,colleges and universities, and
we'll get to hear from some ofthose teachers and professors
some best practices, tips on howthey conduct their rehearsals,
how they encourage students toget involved in choir quartets
(01:12):
ensembles.
We'll also talk to some of thestudents and hear about their
experiences and how beinginvolved in choir and some of
the performing arts programs haschanged the trajectory of their
lives.
We often talk about the valueand the importance and the
significance of being involvedin choir and singing with an
aggregation of people here onthis podcast and you'll get to
(01:34):
hear it firsthand from some ofthe school teachers, college
professors and the universitychoir directors.
Now, if you or someone you knowis involved in any one of those
areas, we'd love to talk to youand perhaps interview you here
in the choir room.
You can email us atthechoirroom, at
metromusic-artscom, or you cancontact us through the choir
(01:55):
room Facebook page.
Now, speaking of the Facebookpage, we're going to begin to
populate that a little morefrequently with our CRQs each
week, and the CRQ again is achoir room question.
These are questions that aresent to us by our listeners and
we try to address them in eachepisode of the podcast.
We acknowledge that we don'thave all the answers, and so we
encourage our listeners toengage in the CRQ via our
(02:18):
Facebook page.
Now be sure to like the page,share the page and subscribe to
the page and this podcast sothat your friends and colleagues
know that you're in the ChoirRoom.
Welcome to the Choir Room.
He's a musician, vocalist,songwriter, recording artist and
(02:42):
a choir director.
Our guest this episode in thechoir room Keith Childress.
Before Keith joins us, dorianhas our Hymn of the Week.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Thanks, greg.
This week's Hymn of the Week isthe Church's One Foundation.
In Acts, chapter 3, peter andJohn are in the temple, and
Peter and John encounter a lameman who is begging and they heal
him of his lameness.
(03:29):
They then go about preaching inthe temple and are eventually
arrested and brought before thecouncil.
And in their interaction withthe council they make a staunch
defense of the gospel and theirpreaching to the people.
And as they are doing this,peter says this in verse 10 of
(03:53):
chapter 4.
Let it be known to all of youand to all the people of Israel
that, by the name of JesusChrist of Nazareth, whom you
crucified, whom God raised fromthe dead by him, this man is the
Lord, jesus Christ and thechurch is the body.
(04:23):
Jesus Christ and the church isthe body of Christ and, as Peter
states in his defense, christis the cornerstone and the
foundation of the church.
This hymn was written inresponse to a controversy that
arose in the Anglican churchduring the late 19th century,
where both the accuracy of someof the events of the Bible and
(04:44):
some articles of the Christianfaith were questioned.
And in response to thiscontroversy, samuel John Stone
wrote this hymn in 1866, basedon Article 9 of the Apostles'
Creed, which states the beliefin the holy Catholic Church,
where Catholic means the trueChristian church of all times
(05:06):
and all places, stating onceagain that there is a common
communion of the saints.
This hymn has six verses and wewon't go through all six verses
, but I would commend this hymnto you to listen to a recording.
But I want to give highlightsof the first three verses in
particular, because they speakto specific portions of
(05:29):
scripture.
In Colossians, 1.18, we read andhe, referring to Christ, is the
head of the body, the church.
He is the beginning, thefirstborn from the dead, that in
everything he might bepreeminent.
And in verse 1, we read thechurch's one foundation is Jesus
Christ, her Lord.
(05:49):
She is his new creation bywater and the word From heaven
he came and sought her to be hisholy bride.
With his own blood he boughther and for her life he died.
Own blood he bought her and forher life he died.
In Ephesians, chapter 4, verses4 through 6, we read there is
(06:10):
one body and one spirit, just asyou were called to the one hope
that belongs to your call.
One Lord, one faith, onebaptism, one God and Father of
all, who is over all and throughall and in all.
In verse 2, we read elect fromevery nation, yet one or all the
(06:31):
earth, her charter of salvationone Lord, one faith, one birth,
one holy name.
She blesses, partakes, one holyfood and to one hope she
presses with every grace endued.
And then, as we go through otherparts of this hymn, it talks
(06:51):
about the scorn that the churchreceives from the world.
It talks about the internaldebates and schisms that occur
within the church and ultimately, in verse 6, it points to the
church's union with Christ.
(07:29):
And in verse 6, we read In thishour where so many truths of
Scripture and the truth of thechurch is under attack and we
see so many divisions within thechurch as well, and we see so
many divisions within the churchas well, may we once again look
(07:58):
to Christ, who is the church'sone foundation.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Welcome to the Quiet Room.
Keith Childress, our guest forthis episode, and we're just
going to let our hair down for alittle while.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I just realized.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
You're in the minority.
Greg, You're in the minority.
I have my pullback.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Oh my goodness, Greg, You're in the minority.
I have to pull back.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Oh my goodness, I'm going to put my hair up.
Moving right along.
We haven't been in the companyof one another for many years.
We both were involved in arecording project many years ago
with Revival Temple Mass Choirand I won't say how many many
was, but it was a long time ago,to say the least and with the
(08:47):
advent of the internet, we'vebeen able to follow each other's
work over the years and I'm soglad to have this great man in
the choir room.
Keith Childress, welcome, thankyou.
Thanks so much for your yes andagreeing to join us.
I trust that you are well.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Doing great, thank you.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
You know, during the time of that recording I
remember being in a very unusualplace.
The timing was just difficultfor me because I think I was in
my first or second year ofcollege.
What was life like for you atthat time?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I had recently just returned back home to New Jersey
from being in living inOklahoma for 13 years Because I
went to Robert RobertsUniversity and I stayed after
graduating.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Let's talk about that experience at the Oral Roberts
University, because most of thisgeneration won't know the Oral
Roberts University.
How did you end up there?
Did you choose it or did itchoose you?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
It was from being in New Jersey that I ended up there
because I had a choir MontclairState.
I was the director of MontclairState Gospel Choir back in the
day and we traveled around and Ibecame friends.
I was a part of Church of Godin Christ and I became friends
(10:00):
with David Lawrence, who he hada choir at what's this Newark
State?
They changed it to King Collegeso, but then he started telling
me about an opening because youknow they had.
Well, just to make it plain,they had, it was five black
(10:21):
people in the group.
So Carlton Pearson was leavingto go on tour with his ministry.
He was leaving school to go out.
He had a ministry of his own,so he was leaving school.
So that space opened up.
So David told me about that.
I sent my little cassette tapethere and they called me one day
(10:45):
and said you need to come outtomorrow to audition.
I'd never flown on a planebefore anything and at that time
it was at four o'clock in theafternoon when I found out and
the flight was the next morningso the banks would be closed.
But you know what?
I had taken $100 out to a loanto a friend of mine Look how the
(11:06):
Lord works.
And at that time, just to flythe next day, it cost $138.
So my parents gave me the $38.
I flew there.
My head was stomped up becauseI didn't know about swallowing,
I'd never flown on a planebefore and in my audition my
(11:30):
friend David was there and heplayed and he was modulating and
I said, oh Lord, please don'tlet me go flat.
And the director of the grouphis name was Gordon Twist, a
little short man with a ton ofmusic in him.
He was amazing.
He said, oh, you didn't go flatonce and that was God letting
me know I'm with you.
I got you.
I went home, flew back home thatnight and I could still see as
(11:55):
I talk about, I could still seethe puddle of tears, puddle of
tears on the floor.
My mother and father were inbed that night and my mother
said, oh, baby, you made it.
And I just stood there andtears.
It was a puddle, I was just.
It was.
That was my.
I was telling my wife duringthis summer, during the Olympics
(12:15):
.
I said that was my OlympicsBecause it opened doors for me.
It exposed me to so muchsinging with people like Aretha
Franklin, and even TeddyPendergrass was on one of our
specials and just going to flyto LA doing singing in the
studio, doing pre-records andfilming and all of those things,
(12:39):
doing TV tapings every monthand I kind of had a full
scholarship.
Wonderful Room board books,lord Jesus.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
So you mentioned traveling and recording.
This wasn't one of the regularchoirs of the university correct
.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Well, this was not just a choir, this was the World
Action Singers, this was a TVgroup.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Ah, gotcha.
Okay, I see the differencethere.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Because they had other choirs.
That's why I'm distinct.
Yeah, okay, I see thedifference there.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
That's why I'm distinct.
Yeah, I knew they had differentgroups there.
What is your affiliation oryour connection with Donnie
Harper and New Jersey Mass Choir?
Did you sing with them?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
No, but he was the musician at my church.
Ah, okay, gotcha.
Before I went to Church of Godand Christ, I was at Zion Hill
Baptist Church, gotcha,hawthorne Avenue and Osborne
Terrace.
That's where I came out of thewomb and he was at our church.
(13:33):
And Liam Lumpkins was alsothere at our church, liam, was
really a great influence in mylife.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, I know choir is a big part of who you are, so
tell us where it started for you.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
It started when I was a little boy.
I loved the choir.
I was like five years old.
My brothers, there's five boysin my family- and where do you
fall in those five?
So I'm number four.
The first three were born realclose together.
Then I came five years later.
My little brother came sixyears after me.
(14:06):
So I'm up in the front, ofcourse, sitting with mommy and
my three older brothers.
They're in the balcony.
So in the car my brother saidwe were so embarrassed Because
the whole church was looking atme Because I'm a little kid down
in the front of the church.
They're in the balcony, thebalcony's laughing at me.
I'm just going wild.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Well, wild about what .
What's happening?
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I loved it and I don't know how to be restrained,
so my love for choir startedfrom the very moment I heard
choir church, I loved it.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
So when did you start playing piano for the church,
and was it this church?
Speaker 3 (14:46):
No, it's funny, I never got to play for the church
.
I grew up in A play.
Well, we call it play on, butwe call it Ambula because
they're my parents and my bestfriends.
So one time they always call medownstairs, like when people
come over the house, keith, comeand play an organ for Ambula,
or whatever.
So Ambula was over there and Icome and play the organ for
Ambula, or whatever.
So Ambula was over there and Icame and played the organ.
(15:07):
She said well, you know, I'mgoing to talk to Reverend Irvin
because we need an organist forthe junior choir.
So that's at Tabernacle BaptistChurch in Newark.
So at the age of 15, I startedplaying for Tabernacle Baptist
Church Wow, and that started mymusic ministry.
(15:28):
And also that same year and Idon't know to this day, deacon
Childress and Sister Childress,let me do this.
But I played in a band too.
Okay, I started playing in aband and we played.
First we started out with theCYO, the Christian Youth
Organization.
Then we started playing.
We played in places like theCheetah and we opened.
We're down at the RKO.
(15:49):
We opened for, like, theDelphonics Cooling the Game.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Okay, so these aren't churches and this clearly
wasn't a church band.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
No, oh, no, this was full version, funk Okay.
So that's why I said I don'tknow how mom and daddy say yes,
but it was awesome.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
But it opened you up and exposed you to various forms
of music and expanded yourmusicality, if you will.
Now you would go on to be apart of choirs and singing
groups.
You'd go on to form groups andchoirs and direct them as well.
How would you describe thevalue and the importance, the
significance, of being involvedin choir?
(16:35):
What are the pros for you?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
There's a camaraderie , there's a team.
You feel like you're part of ateam, a belonging.
You know that these kids, a lotof times they get in these
gangs because there's somethingthey belong to.
People go to differentlifestyles because they've been
embraced by a group and so youfeel there's a, even even in
(17:00):
your section, blending togetherwith the tennis section.
You know, sometimes you like tostand by a certain person.
You become a part of that thingand then you're learning, even
even if you might be livingcrazy at that time.
You know, because we've got togrow, but you're, you're singing
the word and that's how faithcomes.
(17:20):
The Bible says faith comes byhearing, and hearing by the word
of God and even singing theword.
And that's how faith comes.
The Bible says faith comes byhearing, and hearing by the word
of God and even singing theword.
There are times when you'realone.
You start singing and thinkingabout what you're singing about.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
You're also working with first grade through 12th
grade, I think, teaching anddirecting choir.
What does it do for you andwhat is it that you see on the
faces of those young people?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
That means a lot to me because, you know, just
because I'm at a Christianschool, everybody doesn't go to
church, sure.
So we have an experience where,at Christmas, we we sing out.
This was the first time I tookthe group out from the school
this is my sixth year at thisparticular school and we've only
(18:05):
done the Christmas concert andthe spring concert but we went
to a church and did ourChristmas concert and we started
singing Revelation 19.
Hallelujah, and I said thepower of the Lord was moving in
that place.
(18:25):
I looked at the kids.
I said y'all haven't seen thisside of Mr Children's.
This is who I really am.
And to see how God was movingand how they're getting exposed
to it.
Whether they're churched orunchurched, they were being
exposed to the presence of Godand what he does and how he
moves and how he changes theatmosphere.
(18:46):
So they're getting used to thatand they they're hearing.
I pray with them every day and,uh, one of the kids and I always
end my prayer with that umscripture from Psalms look that
the words of my mouth and themeditations of my heart be
acceptable in your sight.
Oh Lord, my strength and myredeemer.
One of my kids.
He was at the other school, asI said before, so he's been here
since he was in kindergartenand he could quote it.
(19:08):
He said why do you always endyour prayer with that?
I said because I want the Lordto be even in what the thing I
think, what I ponder on.
And I said you know something,you know a scripture, what I
ponder on.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
And I said you know something, you know a scripture,
and you don't even know thatyou know a scripture All right,
all right, all right, all right,all right, all right, all right
, all right, all right, allright, all right, all right, all
(19:43):
right, all right, all right,all right, all right.
We just cannot get out.
We just cannot get out.
We just cannot get out.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
We just cannot get out the track it's Gonna Be All
Right by Keith Childress, andthat part is in Swahili.
So, speaking of Swahili, tellus where else, outside of the
school and the church, yourmusic has taken you.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Well, actually it's been to Africa, to Europe, to
several countries in Africa.
In fact I had the pleasure ofgoing with a group doing the
first freedom celebration forSouth Africa, I think that was
1995.
And we were there for aboutthree weeks and they were so it
(20:28):
was so.
It was funny because they saidare you a Black American?
I said yes, and they and theyoung lady said, may I hug you?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I said yes, she hugged me.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
She said I hugged a Black American.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
That's a first, I hope, the black.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
American, but they, they were so happy because they
knew that we we protested and wedid things that helped them get
their freedom, that we were ontheir side, Gotcha, so they that
helped.
So that happened so manydifferent times that I was
(21:01):
confronted with that.
It was such a joy.
It was such a joy.
It was such a joy.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
You know, when I've traveled to Africa and some
other countries as well, I'malways looking for indigenous or
authentic worship to thatculture.
Did you find the impact ofWestern culture as prominent
then in Christian music or choirmusic as we see it today?
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Yeah, they in South Africa they can sing Lord, have
mercy and it, and they sing someof the same things that we,
that we sing, but they havetheir own, their own songs.
I remember being in Swazilandand they were singing and they
would, but when they they wereenjoying it, but when they would
(21:46):
the language, then they wouldthe same song.
They may be singing somethingby Israel Horton, then they
would start singing it in theirlanguage.
And you're talking about a move, a it was like a shift.
They would go in and Iespecially love to hear it in
(22:06):
South Africa because they havethe clicks in their language and
it just sounds so beautiful.
But there would be such a shiftwhen they would go into their
language.
And they are worshipers InZimbabwe, oh my God, there's a
church called Celebration Church.
The pastors are both white,their husband and wife.
(22:28):
In fact, the female pastor thereason I ended up there because
she sang with me in World ActionSingers at All Rocks University
and they moved when they.
She went to Christ for theNations after that.
Then she got married real quickand then they moved to South
Africa, raised all of their kidsin South Africa Not South
(22:49):
Africa, I mean Zimbabwe andtheir church.
You're talking about worship.
It is unbelievable.
In fact I was talking I'msupposed to be recording on a
label, fresh Wind new label.
It'll be distributed by MGM,but that's one on the plan, by
(23:12):
God's grace, to record at thatchurch a celebration church in
South Africa.
I keep calling it South Africa.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Zimbabwe.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
In Zimbabwe.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
South Africa, zimbabwe, zimbabwe.
Yeah, actually it's interestingthat you mentioned sort of this
connection to the past and, asGreg was introducing us and
letting you know about what wedo on the podcast, I actually
usually or I usually do the hymnof the week, and so I take an
opportunity to take a hymn andstudy the author and the writer
of it and talk about itsconnection to the Word of God.
(23:50):
And so, as you are working withyoung people, how do you go
about sort of connecting them tothe hymns of the past, perhaps,
or maybe some of the anthems ofthe past, and how do you see
their response to that?
Because oftentimes, if theyknow that they're singing
(24:13):
something that's 50 years old or60 years old, they
automatically sort of want toreject it.
But if you just introduce it tothem and then they find out how
old it is, it can often have adifferent impact.
Have you had that experience atall?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Well, you know, I think a lot of people send their
kids to Christian schoolsbecause they feel they're safer
for some reason.
So I'm saying that because alot of times they don't know
what's old because they knowmore about secular music than
they know about gospel music, sothey're not like the church
(24:50):
church kids.
So we know whatever the latestthing is Maverick City is doing
or something like that.
Because I play the song that Iwritten by Micah Stampley, and I
asked have you heard of MicahStampley?
No, they don't know who MicahStampley is.
You want to say you don't knowwhat church people are.
(25:15):
You can't say that.
You have to say, oh okay, so Iget to teach them different
things, and they don't.
They just they like it.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
I imagine you taught your kids the song All Right,
it's catchy, it's easy.
How did they respond to that?
Speaker 3 (25:34):
I started teaching it a couple of years ago, but I
started teaching recently andI'm teaching them.
I don't even though on the inthis cause, I did the video in
Zimbabwe.
So when, um, when TimberTimbalami started singing, he
sang in Shona, but when my, whenI first wrote it, my friend in
(25:54):
South Africa translated it forme into Zulu, so I started
teaching them.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
the song is Zulu I bet they learned to love that,
yeah, at first they start tolove that.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Yeah, at first they start making faces.
And so what?
I tell them because most of allthe kids in my choir are black.
So I said you know what?
And I don't want to hearanybody laughing at any of these
languages, because if it wasn'tfor slavery, you'd probably be
speaking these languages Forsure.
So I said when you start doingthat, that's ignorance.
(26:26):
You're not ignorant, you'regoing to do great things.
I want you to get used to thewhole world.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, yeah my question is have you always
taught in Christian schools?
Have you ever taught in well, Ihate to call it a secular
school, but you know, outside ofthe Christian education have
have you taught in any otherschool?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
No, I haven't.
No, I haven't.
Actually, seemingly it evenhappened by accident, because I
never thought in a million yearsthat I would be teaching in any
school.
And what happened?
My son was in a Christianschool and they would have me
come once a month.
(27:08):
They started out, they foundout I was a worship leader so
I'd come and lead worship andthey would give me a discount, a
little take off his tuition.
I want to do that every week.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
You become a regular, I said I'm going to do that
every week.
Come on, you become a regular.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
I'm serious.
I was going to ask you now, doy'all need me to come?
But what happened?
The people that were doing themusic, I don't know.
You know stuff happens inchurch and I don't know to this
day all the things that happen.
But then I was going to askthem.
It's funny, I was going to askhim.
It's funny, I was going to askhim.
You know, I'll come and dojanitorial work if that'll help.
(27:48):
And then, but the spirit of thelord said, no, I'll put
something else in you.
There's nothing wrong,janitorial, but I gave you
something else that you can takeand I, I went there and it just
so happened that situation cameabout.
And then next thing, I knew Iwas the music director at that
school, the first school, and soI never thought I'd be teaching
(28:13):
Then I never thought I'd beteaching little kids.
My wife was telling me oh no,you got that.
I said, no, I don't, but I loveit.
And I have my first graders.
Like for the Christmas concert,I taught the first graders I'll
teach no, what you usually wantto have the Christmas concert.
(28:33):
I'll teach the first gradersthe melody and I'll teach the
second graders the harmony.
Interesting, and as we getclose to the time we bring it
together, we do a few trainwrecks and then we get on track.
Very interesting, but I neverthought back to the question.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
I know I'm doing these rabbit trails, but no,
it's actually very interestingbecause, having taught the same
age groups, I've never thoughtto give one class one part of
the harmony and another classthe other part of the harmony.
Essentially, I was teachingharmony to every class, but
sometimes having multiple choirswithin the student body, but
(29:13):
then still having them singtogether on certain songs.
So we just learned a differentapproach, thank you.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Ouch, thank you, because a lot of the first
graders they had never sunganything but they were in
kindergarten to sing in unisonRight.
So to introduce and thenexplain to them, and then I also
teach them a song called theorchestra song.
Have you ever heard that?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Maybe, if I heard it.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Well, there's one, the violins ring.
Oh yes, oh yes, I'm familiarwith that exercise.
And there's one, the violin'sringing.
Oh yes, oh yes, I'm familiarwith that exercise and all those
different parts, and then Istart explaining about what
harmony is, and I talk aboutblending and all that, and then
you know, little kids try toscream.
Oh no, no, in Mr Children'sclass we never scream, we never.
(30:01):
So they know not to scream,awesome.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
It's interesting to hear about all your different
experiences and I guess you sortof have a captive audience in
your classroom.
I guess you sort of have acaptive audience in your in your
classroom, but as you've donerecordings and had different
(30:38):
groups and things like that,what have you, I guess, found
has been the best way to keepthat group together as as one?
Because I'm not in therecording industry Greg and
Mieta can speak to that but it'svery easy sometimes for the big
eyes to show up and people seekto promote themselves.
How have you found the bestways to keep that from happening
with the groups that you'veworked with?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
you've worked with, when you do more than just sing,
when you care about people,when you share your, your, your
uh wins and your losses, whenyou just when you're vulnerable
to one another and you show thatyou genuinely care about you.
I can't come to rehearsal or Ican't come disengagement because
blah, blah, blah that, oh nowhat, what.
You can't come to rehearsal orI can't come to this engagement
because blah, blah, blah that,oh no what.
You can't come.
You know what's going on mymother's sick or something, or I
(31:32):
can't pay my bills.
I have to work extra hard andwe care, we give.
I think that really keepspeople together because it's
that sense of community, thesense of belonging, the sense
that someone loves me, someonecares about me, for more than
what I can do if I can't doanything for them that they care
about.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Amen Thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
We often talk about that regarding our groups and
groups and community, groups andgroups and community, and I
often say I made a statementonce before to Greg and Dorian
about I have a group and we'reapproaching about 30 years.
We're approaching 30 years ofministry this year and one of
the things I had shared withthem that this group of people
(32:16):
they come to my house and theyjust kind of take over my house
and we laughed about that.
But it is such a true statementthat we genuinely care for one
another and care about what goeson in their lives outside of
the music, and I've alwaysthought it to be important, but
(32:42):
it's more important today thanit was 30 years ago.
Yes, so to hear you say thatI'm not too far off.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Are you?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
related to Lorraine.
I am, I'm her niece.
Okay, I know.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Lorraine.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Well who doesn't know ?
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Lorraine Stamps or Lawson who doesn't know her?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
yeah, but I do have a question about because you're a
writer, composer, do you have aspecific?
I guess, if you've been doingit as long as you have, you just
do it because you love it, butdo you have a specific targeted
audience?
Or have you ever thought aboutan audience you know?
Speaker 3 (33:30):
what I get asked that question when we get ready to
record, not a question.
They say no, you have toremember who are you targeting.
I've never been able to answer.
When I'm trying to choose songsI'm like because if I do this
then I'm going to be pigeonholedto do this, because I like
(33:52):
something contemporary, I likesomething traditional, I like
him.
So you know, when you'rewriting and you want to like, I
want to show everybodyeverything I do.
They sing like you're notsupposed to do that.
You're supposed to.
So what do you do?
That's hard to me.
That's a hard thing for me.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
I can believe that I can relate to that to our
listening audience.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
The three pieces of music you've been hearing
playing underneath are writtenby Keith and you can tell that
they are three different stylesof music and so he's got a
well-rounded repertoire.
But, keith, before we go intoour CRQ and we want you to stick
around for that and chime in onthat give our listening
audience some final thoughts onthe value, the importance, the
(34:43):
significance of singing in choir.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
You don't have to be this great leader, but you know
you have the sense of picture.
You want to sing in the choir.
There's that community andthat's that coming together, the
gathering of singing to theLord together and you're
encouraging the congregation,You're encouraging one another,
you're encouraging yourselfbecause you're singing back to
(35:07):
yourself those things that are,and you're exalting the Lord.
It is a.
It's a great, great opportunityto be a part of the choir and
then you're being, you'relearning about vocal technique.
You know you're not getting avocal lesson per se, but you're
learning some things.
You're learning Because I wastelling my kids about day
(35:28):
crescendos and crescendos, andyou don't just let the note fall
out like a gumball and they'llfinish.
They'll finish my sentence.
I do it at the country, so theparents know that I am teaching
something and so I say practicedoesn't make perfect.
Then you hear all the kids inunison perfect, practice makes
(35:49):
perfect.
And I'll say singers are.
And there come thinkers.
Because I tell them thatsingers are thinkers.
You have to think about thepitch.
You have to think about thewords.
You have to think about how tophrase the words.
You have to think about how toexpress the words.
You have to think about how toexpress the words, the day
crescendos and the crescendos,and you have to think about even
(36:09):
the rest and the breathing andall that.
And you have to think aboutresonance, how to project your
voice through the mask of yourface a whole lot of stuff.
So you got to think about a lotof things.
And it's just impactful whenyou're together with people and
then you see God move, you seeGod doing things in the
(36:29):
congregation, you see God movingthrough somebody in the choir
who may be going through theymay have just lost a child, a
loved one and you see God moveand God heal and God massage,
and so there's just things thatwe know about each other.
I used to do one of the choirsI had before we even had
(36:50):
rehearsal.
I would call it a scriptureshower and we would all just
come together, differentscriptures that different ones
would say, and every time therewas somebody going through a
situation where that scripturewas the answer, that scripture
blessed them and gave themstrength to go on.
So you have strength in numberswhen you're together with one
(37:13):
mind and being in a choir, whenyou can do those kinds of things
and you can be vulnerable toone another.
It's really a great impactfulexperience, Indeed.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Keith, tell our listeners where they can find
your music and more about you.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
All the platforms, on Amazon, on Apple Music, and I
guess I was about to say thewrong word.
I was about to say StyrofoamSpotify Spotify.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Spotify.
Spotify, not styrofoam.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Keith Childress Mietta is going to take us to
our CRQ.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Thanks, greg.
Today's CRQ sound before sight.
Let's keep that in mind.
Sound before sight is a phraseI've heard from my church choir
director.
Now that I'm in universitychoir, I realize that the
importance of it.
But our director is pushingsight and sound.
(38:19):
Can you elaborate on thedifference in how one is better
than the other?
Now, listener, we have a coupleof views on this question
tonight or today.
There's a real, there's a realpolitical.
It's a nice, nicely politicalanswer, and then a couple of us
(38:42):
have gone extremely carnal andcame came about this in a
different direction.
My interpretation of this umparticular question is, um,
sound meaning how you vocallysound and sight being how you
(39:06):
look, sounding like you sound.
If that makes any sense and Ihope I'm making sense in that,
um, I personally they both gohand in hand.
I think that, whoever thedirector is, I think they're
right in pushing for both sight,sight and sound.
You should look, uh, visually,like you're enjoying yourself
(39:27):
and you believe what it isyou're singing.
That's how you should look.
You should look like you'rehaving the best time ever, and
it doesn't matter what genre ofmusic you're singing Could be it
gospel, be it secular, be itclassical, whatever it is, you
should look like you're havingthe best time ever and have the
(39:48):
skill to sound like you'rehaving the best time ever and
have the skill to sound likeyou're having the best time ever
at the same time.
So that's my short answer, butI'm sure we're going to talk
about this a little longer thanmy answer.
So what say you, gentlemen?
Speaker 4 (40:03):
Well, I agree with you, Mietta, in interpreting
this in the way that youinterpret it.
But it is interesting that theend of the question says can you
elaborate on the difference inhow one is better than the other
?
And I would say that sight andsound are important.
However, I think we're in anage where it has become about
(40:29):
performance, and so it's becomeabout how you can attract
attention, how you can have thebest moves, how all of these
other things in addition to thesound and I would say, in
addition to that, it's what it'sthe words that you're singing
as well, because I mean, you canhave the right sound, you can
(40:57):
look the right way, but if thewords that you're singing aren't
impacting people, then it's allfor naught.
So I don't know if I'venecessarily answered the
question about how one is betterthan the other, answered the
question about how one is betterthan the other.
I do see both as important, butI can also see where we've
(41:17):
definitely seen the pushing ofthe envelope about how a choir
is supposed to look and whatthey're supposed to do when
they're singing as a group.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Well, I'm going to defer to our guest and stand
down for a moment, because Itotally didn't interpret the
question the way you guys did.
So I'm going to let him go, andif I deem it necessary
afterwards, I'll lend my twocents.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
I think they're equally important on the way
that the last two gave.
I think they're equallyimportant because you can sound
good and look a hot mess andyou're not expressing your face.
So that's one thing.
So that's one thing.
In my experience doing the TV,we had mirrors in our rehearsal
room, wall-to-wall mirrors, sothat the words that we say, our
(42:18):
expressions, would match thosewords, because we're reaching
out to millions of people.
So it was important what welooked like and that we were
expressing to them.
So it was important what welook like and that we were
(42:38):
expressing to them, that we werereaching out with our ministry
of song to all of those millionsof people.
So that was important and Ithink you're going to take the
side of sight reading.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Well, you know they beat me up so bad offline
because of my interpretation ofthe question that I'm not sure I
want to even answer it at thispoint.
But here's my thought.
I'm sorry, keith, were you done?
Speaker 3 (42:58):
Yes, all right.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
So here was my interpretation of the question.
First, let me say I agree withall of you.
I agree that you need to lookthe part as much as you need to
sound the part.
I don't think they're equal.
However, I think you need tosound well, because if you don't
sound well, it doesn't matterwhat you look like.
People are going to rememberwhat you sound like.
(43:19):
They'll get past what you looklike, but if you sound that as a
choir, they're going toremember that forever.
So to Dorian's point.
No doubt we are in an age wherethere seems to be an increased
focus on the outward appearance.
And that's from the platform tothe pew, from the stage to the
door, and many choirs haveforsaken the choir robe or even
(43:42):
any kind of choir uniform andnow it's become as you are and
unfortunately with that we'vegotten holy jeans and spandex to
index.
I mean everything you know.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
But did you say spandex to index?
Speaker 1 (43:58):
I ran out of words, but everything in between as
well.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
We call it flesh on parade where I come from.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
It's like nothing is out of bounds, you know a little
less the flash thing.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
So what you're saying , greg, is bring back the choir
room.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
I am all for it.
In many cases now, when I readthe question, I interpreted it
differently, because the writersaid sound before sight is a
phrase I've heard from my churchchoir and now that I'm in
university choir I realize theimportance of it.
But our director is pushingsight and sound.
(44:36):
So now that you are inuniversity choir, sight and
sound are likely equallyimportant to your choir director
, meaning that it's part of yourgrade that you learn to sight
read, and it's also part of yourgrade that you learn to sight
read and it's also part of yourgrade that you learn to perform
well, sound, well, learn thetechniques that he or she is
(44:57):
teaching.
So clearly I'm in the minoritywith this question's
interpretation and maybe withhair.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
That's not what they were asking.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Well, at least we answered the question from every
angle, and so we're going toask the person who sent the
question in to write us againand tell us what you meant.
Hopefully we answered yourquestion.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
Well, listeners, you have received a wealth of
information tonight.
Prayerfully, we were able toassist you in furthering the
gospel through Saul.
Stay the course beloved,because choir matters.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Yes, choir matters and we couldn't agree more To
our listeners.
Be sure to go to iTunes, amazonMusic, spotify or wherever you
go to get your music.
Pick up the track All Right byKeith Childress, our guest.
Pick up the track All Right byKeith Childress, our guest.
And, as a reminder to ourlisteners, if you haven't done
so already, subscribe, share andlike this podcast and tell a
(45:58):
friend that you were in thechoir room.
And remember, if ever we putthe messenger before the message
, we have failed to present anunblemished gospel.
I'm Greg Thomas.
Join us again next week righthere in the choir room.
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