January 31, 2025 • 34 mins
The way Christians think about and use sex is changing. For example, a recent study by Barna Group and Pure Desire Ministries shows that Christian porn use is almost equal to porn use by the general public. And an increasing number of Christians believe that it is OK to look at porn. At the same time, fewer and fewer congregations are addressing the issue from the pulpit, in recovery groups or in small groups.
In this episode, Rodney Wright talks about the reasons that Christian attitudes about sex are changing, why the church seems to be retreating from the subject and what Christians and congregations can (and should) do.
Link to Barna Group / Pure Desire study on porn use among Christians
Link to Pure Desire Ministries
Link to How to Talk with Your Kids About Sex
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Holly Linden (00:03):
Welcome to the Christian Chronicle Podcast.
We are bringing you the storyshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
Here is our host, BT Irwin.
BT Irwin (00:14):
Family and friends, neighbors and, most of all,
strangers.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle Podcast.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
We need to talk about sex.
I don't mean you and me, thatwould be weird.
I mean the Church of Christneeds to talk about sex and we
here at the Christian Chronicleare in the mood.
(00:36):
The mood to get theconversation started.
And just so you know that we'renot trying to be salacious.
This episode emerged from twonews stories that came out in
late 2024.
The first was a report from theBarna Group, that esteemed and
trusted Christian researchorganization that explores the
trends affecting faith, cultureand ministry.
(00:59):
According to new research fromBarna, attitudes about sex are
changing among Christians.
In the United States, forexample, over three in five
Christians say that it ispossible for a person to look at
porn on a regular basis andstill live a sexually healthy
life.
Also, almost half 49% ofChristians who admit to looking
(01:21):
at porn say they are quotecomfortable with how much
pornography they use.
End quote.
You'll hear more about that ina moment.
The second news story came fromthe Christian Chronicle's own
Bobby Ross Jr, who reported thatAdventures in Missions or AIM
for short, a popular missionarytraining program at Sunset
International Bible Institute inLubbock, texas, discovered the
(01:43):
need for sex education amongthose who are in the program.
No, I'm not talking about thatkind of sex education.
Rather, over years of workingwith missionaries in training,
the folks at AIM came torecognize two things.
First, sexual assault andsexual sins are a reality that
(02:22):
missionaries for the field.
For that they enlisted Hollyand Steve Holliday, co-founders
of Ultimate Escape, a ministrythat equips individuals,
families, churches and otherorganizations to address
sexuality with intentionalityand sensitivity.
This includes pastoralcounseling for teens and adults
looking for help with issuesincluding sexual trauma and
(02:42):
abuse, sexual identity confusionand sexual addiction.
Starting with this episode,you're going to get a double
dose of sex talk this week,meaning we're giving two
episodes on the subject.
In this one, episode 109,you'll hear from Rodney Wright,
the Advancement Specialist withPure Desire Ministries, who
exists to provide a safe placeto find hope and healing from
(03:04):
the effects of sexual brokenness.
Rodney is also a pastor andauthor of how to Talk with your
Kids About Sex.
Pure Desire and Barna Grouprecently published the
aforementioned joint study onporn use among Christians in the
United States.
Before we get into it, though,please be advised this
conversation is candid andperhaps too explicit or graphic
(03:25):
and I mean those terms in a goodway for what some parents or
grandparents may want theiryoungsters to hear.
So if you don't want to bebombarded with questions you're
not ready to answer, maybe savethis one for a time when the
kids are not around.
And with that let's get toRodney Wright.
Rodney, thank you for being onthe show.
Honored to be with you, bt.
It's a pleasure to have you.
So in the lead up to thisconversation I read some of the
(03:47):
key findings from the Barnastudy and our listeners just
heard that in the intro to theshow.
What in that study jumped outat you or surprised you the most
?
Rodney Wright (03:57):
Well, it didn't really surprise me.
It just kind of affirmed whatI've known, after speaking in
over 100 churches the last fiveyears, is this is still a hard
subject for churches to address,and our silence hasn't been
helping the problem.
And so the problem is stillthere and it's growing and
having even greater impact.
Interesting our culture isreally influencing our church,
(04:23):
and so two and three US adults61% report viewing porn, and
half of those are looking atporn and no one knows they're
doing it.
So it continues to be a problemwithin culture and even within
the church.
BT Irwin (04:42):
I shared this report with a couple of other Church of
Christ ministers who this istheir full-time ministry and
they both said that they thinkthe numbers in the report are
low.
They said those are just thepeople who responded in the
affirmative but they suspected,the numbers were much higher in
reality.
Rodney Wright (05:03):
Yeah, Well, technology is such a wonderful
gift because of access, evenwhat we're doing here today in
this podcast but technology hasto be managed and unfortunately
same with sexuality.
We don't know, we haven'talways done well about educating
about a stewardship issue, andso we steward our time, our
money.
We also have to steward oursexuality and our technology,
(05:26):
and so that's kind of what wewould call holistic spirituality
, integrating your faith in allareas of your life.
BT Irwin (05:33):
Well put.
So the Barna report shows thatChristians' attitudes or
opinions about porn have changedover the last eight years.
If you had to take an educatedguess, what would you say are
the factors contributing to thechange in attitude?
Rodney Wright (05:49):
Well, in my opinion, the change in attitude
has to do with our lack ofholistic spirituality, and what
I mean by that is I'm not goingnew age on everybody here, I'm
just talking about learning howto love the Lord, your God, with
all your heart, all your soul,all your mind, all your strength
, integrating the way of God inour mind, in our emotions, in
our sexuality.
(06:09):
And so, I think, a lack ofeducation.
To be honest with you, I'mgrateful for this wonderful
organization we work forRepresent Pure Desire, that's,
providing competent resourcesfor men and women who struggle
with pornography as well asbetrays partners.
And now we're moving towardeducation.
We're moving toward resourcesthat teach mom and dad how to be
(06:32):
the sex educators of their kids, and I think this is, in my
opinion, this BT is the realproblem.
We don't know how to talk, usesexual language in a healthy way
.
We've typically only heardsexual language in a derogatory
way.
So if I were to use thelanguage in a healthy way?
We've typically only heardsexual language in a derogatory
way so if I were to use thelanguage of penis, vagina,
intercourse?
Some of us just feel like thoseare evil words because we've
(06:54):
never just said no, they'resexual terms, and sexuality is
innately evil.
We're made in the image of God,male and female, and our
sexuality is a wonderful gift.
We just never learned how toeducate and normalize the
conversation, especially withinreligion, in my opinion, the
Christian, western Christianity.
BT Irwin (07:13):
That's a good point.
I wonder if perhaps porn is soaccessible, so cheap, so easy
and so private.
Now you mentioned that mostpeople are using it and nobody
else knows that.
It kind of floods the zone tothe point that resistance just
feels futile.
It's like one time we went tothe amusement park and we got
our shoes and our shorts wet ona water ride.
(07:34):
So when it started pouring downrain, we just went ahead and
started splashing in puddles,because you know why not.
You know part of us is alreadywet, so why try to keep the rest
of us dry when it's raining?
Just telling people not to lookat porn is like giving someone
a small umbrella and tellingthem to not get even the least
bit damp walking around theblock in a downpour.
What are we to do?
Rodney Wright (07:56):
Yeah, yeah, the onslaughts.
Well, this is such a greatquestion.
It's interesting.
Let me let me read you thisstat here about just some of the
negative effects.
Even though nearly half ofAmericans think watching porn
has little impact on their life,its ripple effects include
significant declines in mentalhealth and well-being.
(08:20):
Use porn report higher levelsof negative well-being in areas
like self-criticism,perfectionism, anxiety and
depression than those who don'tuse it.
So it's having a negativeeffect on society, it's having a
negative effect on individuals.
(08:40):
And so to raise up our hand andsay it's just so accessible, why
even try to resist this?
Because it's having a negativeeffect.
And we would say that our humansexuality is a wonderful gift.
Sometimes a good gift just getsused in the wrong way.
And so Jesus we would say thatthe claims of Jesus is always
(09:01):
showing us how to live thebetter way, and that includes
our sexuality.
When done right, our humansexuality becomes heaven on
earth, and when mismanaged, itcan become a living hell.
And for those of us, likemyself, who've struggled with
sexual addiction, those who'vebeen hurt by their partner's
betrayal or those who arevictims of the whole pornography
(09:23):
industry, many of us havewitnessed firsthand just the
destruction that pornographybrings in a life and individuals
.
BT Irwin (09:31):
I'm glad you brought that up and I'm glad that the
report made that connection.
I've never heard it put that waybefore, which is surprising
because I'm 48 years old and soone of the things that one of
the things that I mentioned in arecent episode in another
interview to some other peoplethat do a similar ministry that
(09:53):
you do is, you know, one inthree American adults, I believe
, report being lonely, reportmental health issues, and so I
see kind of a vicious cycle herethat you're saying that porn
use can feed into anxiety,depression, loneliness, and then
people are self-medicating forthose things with porn, which
(10:14):
just leads to a downward spiral.
Rodney Wright (10:17):
Yeah, Well, we live in such a sexualized
culture and the access becomesgreater and greater.
I love organizations likeCulture Refrained, non-faith
based, but they're really goingafter the porn industry saying
it's a public health issue byallowing our children to be
exposed at any age as long asthey just can find a device.
And so there's the reality ofhow the impact is so difficult
(10:43):
for families and kids.
This is really helpful and Iforgot what your question was in
trying to make that statement.
I'm sorry, that's fine.
BT Irwin (10:51):
Actually, there wasn't a question mark on the end of
it, it was just a period, andthen you just riffed on that.
Holly Linden (10:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
BT Irwin (10:58):
The first time I saw this Barna research a couple of
months ago.
It was in a news article that Iencountered when scanning the
headlines one morning, and thisline from the news report
grabbed me.
Quote researchers noticedwaning interest in hosting porn
recovery ministries and churchesover the past few years.
End quote.
And that is remarkable,considering that a lot of
(11:20):
experts that I and likely a lotof other congregational leaders
read say that the isolation ofthe pandemic contributed to a
rise in personal porn use.
So you'd think thatcongregations would be more
aware of this than ever.
You work with congregations andcongregational leaders all the
time.
Why do you think that interestin porn recovery ministries is
(11:41):
waning in our churches right now?
Rodney Wright (11:45):
Well, bt, as we spoke just before we recorded,
I've spoken in over 100 churchesin the last five years.
If I go to any church inAmerica and I stand up and say,
hey, we've got real problems inhuman sexuality, it's affected
culture and it's affecting thechurch, everybody would agree.
So if I say, hey, if you havebeen sexually abused or you've
(12:06):
been a betrayed partner oryou're currently struggling with
sexual addiction to pornographyor you're in an affair or had
an affair or have any negativesexual history, our organization
can help you.
We have competent resources andcompassionate people.
Just meet me in the lobby bythe green tablecloth, right, and
I'll be there and I'll be readyto give you these resources.
Now, do you know how many aregoing to show up in the lobby by
(12:30):
the green tablecloth?
Yeah, right, and why is that?
Why would you think that's likethat?
Let me ask you that questionwhat's the one word that would
cause people not to go?
BT Irwin (12:39):
I don't know if I can say it in one word, but I don't
think.
In the lobby in front ofeverybody else, shame.
Rodney Wright (12:46):
Yeah Right, Shame .
And you even mentioned the wordcaught.
Hey, if I'm a victim, I'm notcaught.
I haven't done anything wrong,I'm just a victim of betrayal
from my partner, Right?
So the problem, in my opinion,is there's so much negative
shame around sexuality or sexualmismanagement, as I say that,
that in the church we haven'teven know how to bridge this
(13:07):
conversation about sexuality,and so sometimes we think about
the extreme of sexual brokennessSomeone's a pedophile or those
kind of things, and there's alot of those labels that create
shame.
I go to those same hundredchurches.
I say, hey, my name's RodneyWright and I'm 57, born in
Salinas, California, and I sayhow many would agree with me?
(13:31):
We cannot let pornography bethe sex educator of our kids any
longer.
Everybody, in fact.
I'll wait just a moment.
Raise your hand if you think weshould not let porn be the sex
educator.
And every hand's going up inthe crowd, Even granny's raising
her hand, and she's not quitesure what the word porn means.
She's thinking it's like cornor something you know.
But the point I'm saying isthen I say, hey, I want all of
(13:52):
you to join us, all adults andeven the high school kids on a
training on how to talk withyour kids about sex, because
we're going to begin to educateyou about redeeming this whole
conversation about sex, sexeducation, because it's been too
long that we've let thepornographers become the sex
educators.
In fact, let me tell you mystory and then I go into my
(14:13):
journey of a kid being raisedsexual addiction very religious
home.
You know my dad was a crossbetween Billy Graham, Ronald
Reagan and John Wayne.
That was my dad, you know, apastor at a church of 1500 in
the seventies there in Modesto,California.
So there was no way I was goingto him.
When I was 12 and saw porn forthe first time and I tell people
I'm old, the stuff I saw waschiseled on a rock.
(14:35):
You know we didn't have iPhones, so to speak, but nevertheless
everybody wants to educate theirkid and grandkid.
It's noble to help others, evenif we're sitting there in our
own pain and trauma from what'shappened to us or what we've
been participating in.
So I think it's a real issue ofjust reclaiming human sexuality
is good and giving a frameworkthat helps the church and church
(14:59):
leaders know how to lean in.
And we know that many churchleaders to addiction runs with
pastors, men or women.
So it's not just a pew issue,it's a pulpit issue, and so,
because of a lack of educationor a lack of just, if we bring
it here, it might expose the onethat's leading.
It creates all kinds offrameworks that just make it
(15:21):
difficult for churches to leaninto this.
BT Irwin (15:23):
I have a couple of unscripted questions here that
just came to me while you weretalking.
I have a couple of unscriptedquestions here that just came to
me while you were talking.
One of them is I grew up in avery conservative Church of
Christ environment and most ofmy buddies did too.
Growing up, I went off toChristian college and all of us
were saving ourselves formarriage and as far as I know,
(15:45):
most, or maybe all of ussucceeded in saving ourselves
from marriage.
But one of the one of the thingsthat did that's a good thing,
right One of the things that didis I even perceived it then is
that it kind of created almostan over-sexualized, um, a
culture among us as in uh, we,we didn't have sex, sex, but we
(16:10):
thought about it and talkedabout it all the time and it
became this bigger and biggerthing in our imaginations before
we got married.
And so a lot of my friends inChristian college not going to
name any names, guys, you'resafe struggled with porn.
That was when the internet juststarted coming out and I've
(16:33):
always wondered if there was acorrelation between how we were
trying so hard to be so pure,almost sterile, you know and yet
sex was always this huge thingthat just got bigger and bigger
and bigger as we got closer to amarriage age and I saw how we
struggled so much and we wereashamed of the struggle, so of
(16:55):
course we didn't tell anybody,so I don't know if you can riff
on that experience.
Holly Linden (17:00):
You've been around a lot of churches.
Rodney Wright (17:04):
Well, let me just say this I think that the heart
behind the purity culture andwhat they call the purity ring
Right that was my time, yeah, Ithink the heart behind that was
really good.
They wanted kids to make healthydecisions on managing their
sexuality.
So let me give you somelanguage that I'll use here that
I think is really good when itcomes to talk about sexuality,
(17:25):
not talk about Christian sex andsecular sex.
I was kind of raised in thatworld where everything was
Christian Christian music,christian friends, you know,
christian tacos, you know justkind of kind of you know
whatever.
And then sexuality got throwninto that too Christian sex,
non-christian sex, but languagelike healthy sexuality and
unhealthy sexuality, and thenlanguage like manage and
(17:48):
mismanage.
I think those are real properterms and so why there was a
real emphasis on you know, don'thave intercourse, be a virgin.
People were acting out in allkinds of other ways sexually
that mismanaging their sexualitythrough pornography.
That were causing them evenprobably more pain in some ways,
because it became secret, itbecame compulsive and it became
(18:09):
addictive in their life.
So now they get married as avirgin and yet they've got this
whole issue of pornographythat's going on in their life
Right.
So I think that part of theissue that kind of comes to my
mind is that we don't givepeople the reason why managing
your sexuality in healthy waysis the better way.
(18:31):
And just showing that God gaveus sex, in my opinion, for three
reasons For procreation, that,as God creates, we could
participate in creating, whichis just a miracle.
My sister's a labor anddelivery nurse in California, so
she witnesses miracles comingout of the womb every day.
God gave us sexuality forpleasure.
That's why he put nerve endingsin the head of the penis and in
(18:52):
the clitoris.
God did that right.
God did that.
And then for bonding.
And unfortunately all that,when done right, makes a
beautiful marriage connectionbonding.
Outside of that, we begin tobond to a body part or an image
on a screen or we begin to haveall this negative sexual history
that kind of causes distortionto us.
(19:13):
So even when we move intomarriage, marriage doesn't
change us.
It just reveals more of what itfinds in us and if we're
unhealthy it will reveal that.
So in our book we wrote a bookhow to Talk with your Kids we
replaced the purity ring withthe value ring and I'll tell
this quick story if I can.
It's a ring I gave to mydaughter when she turned 16.
I took her out and I got hernails painted and I took her to
(19:37):
some jewelry stores and welooked at a bunch of rings and
she found this ring.
Put it on.
The jeweler said, mr Wright,that ring costs $10,000.
I said to my daughter, whitney,hey, we're close, it doesn't
match your eyes, but let's keeplooking, we're almost there.
So I found a ring in thehundreds not the thousands of
out of this ring and I said toher BT, this is not a purity
(19:58):
ring or a promise ring.
This isn't your promise to us.
This ring is called the valuering and this is our promise to
you that your worth and valuewill never change in our eyes,
regardless of your behavior.
You will always be our beloveddaughter and we want you to make
good decisions in your lifeabout how you manage all kinds
(20:19):
of things, your sexuality andyour honesty, and not cheating
and not stealing.
But, honey, I wouldn't give youall these rings and all these
fingers for you to make allthese external promises.
So I want to reinforcesomething your worth and value.
I want you to see how valuableyou are on the inside and all
the decisions you make I wantyou to make from a sense of
(20:40):
seeing your worth and value andknow that if you ever struggle
in anything, you can always cometo mom and dad, because we have
nothing but your best interestand we want to learn how to help
, how to train and guide you,not shame and punish.
So in the purity culture, whenthey lost their virginity, they
would either lie to theirparents and keep the ring on or
they would give back the ringand just kind of live in shame,
like, well, I guess I'm damagedgoods.
(21:01):
And because of my sexualaddiction and my mismanagement
of sexuality as a young manbefore marriage, I had so much
shame around my sexuality as ayoung man that, man, this was a
huge hurdle to overcome, and sopart of this whole conversation,
I think, is starting from aneducation place and a love place
and a value place.
(21:22):
A second piece of that and youcan cut to this later, but a
second piece of that is we putso many eggs in our culture in a
sexual basket.
Yeah, yeah, and this is whatculture does.
In my opinion, bt, our greatesthuman need isn't orgasm or
intercourse.
Our greatest human need isconnection.
(21:42):
Yes, it's intimate connection,and intimacy just means into me.
You see, I can be seen, known,loved, I can share what I'm
thinking, but I can even sharemy emotions, what I'm feeling,
what's going on in my life andI'm safe.
That's our greatest human need.
And in our book we talk thatone of the best things you can
(22:03):
share with your kids is how tomake those healthy intimate
connections.
Now I say to people in churchesI have a lot of intimate female
connections and they go oh no,rodney.
But I say only one is sexual,that's with my wife, tracy.
But I'm very intimate with mymother, who's 95, my sister, my
daughter.
They're not sexual but they'reintimate.
(22:24):
We share our lives with eachother.
And then I say I have a lot ofintimate male relationships,
right, and they go oh man,you're messed up more than we
thought.
I say I'm in recovery groupswith a lot of guys.
They're not sexual but they'revery intimate, because that's
our greatest need is to beintimate, to be known, seen and
loved.
And so this is where I thinkall the confusion really lies.
(22:46):
Our young kids are putting somuch eggs in that sex basket.
If I just have sex with ascreen, if I just have sex
virtually, if I just lack thesame sex or change my sex, we
think sex changes everything, itfixes everything.
And those of us that have liveda few years we look back and
say that's not our greatesthuman need.
Our greatest human need is tobe known, loved and seen and to
(23:08):
know you're worthy of love andyou belong.
BT Irwin (23:11):
I want to end with a couple of questions here.
I want to circle back tochurches.
First of all.
You talked a moment ago abouttalking about these things from
the pulpit.
You're a pastor yourself.
I preach regularly.
We have a lot of people wholisten to this show, who are
also in pulpits every Sunday,and my question is if our
(23:34):
primary responsibility in thepulpit is to proclaim the death,
burial and resurrection ofJesus Christ, how then do we
make sex and sexuality a part ofthe message that we speak to
our congregations from thepulpit?
This is a great question.
Rodney Wright (23:53):
Thank you for asking it.
You teed it up pretty high.
I at least got to get a basehit here.
So thank you.
I think, just like Dave Ramseycomes to churches and educates
about how to manage resources,finances, in a healthy way, I
think the role of the pastor isto simply say, not necessarily
for the next eight weeks, we'regoing to do sex education on
(24:14):
Sunday morning on a broadaudience but simply saying, hey,
there are people and resourcesthat we've connected with that
want to educate us, that havecompetent resources and are
really going to train us abouthow to take the truth of
scripture, understand about howGod wired us and begin to
educate about healthy sexuality.
(24:35):
And so if people could see justintegrating sexuality as a
discipleship tool and having aclass or a workshop where Pure
Desire has Sexual Integrity 101,that it's an eight-week course
that you can take as just a partof your holistic discipleship.
And this is the point Imentioned earlier in the
broadcast we don't know how toeducate and we don't know how to
(24:58):
train about healthy sexualmanagement.
So, young Rodney, young BT andyour friends, that when you guys
were in high school, hey guys,porn can affect the brain.
Here's what it does.
It's not just a moral problem,it's a brain problem and it's
about retraining the brain,which the neuroplasticity is the
word in neuroscience.
But the Bible calls thatrepentance, metanoia, changing
(25:22):
how you think, right.
That's the work of repentance.
It's an ongoing process ofidentifying those thinking
errors, those lies, andreplacing them with the truth.
So the pulpit should be a placeto move people toward education
.
I simply say parent educationis one of the best places to
start.
Come on, mom and dad, I didn'tget educated.
Let's educate the young, highschoolers and up, about how to
(25:44):
understand sexuality and manageit in a healthy way.
And when people can own theirstory.
Um Bernay Brown has this quoteif you deny your, if you, when
you deny your story, it definesyou, hmm.
But when you own it you canwrite a brave new ending.
And when I found Pure Desire,you know, my recovery started 27
years ago in a therapist'soffice.
(26:05):
I was a young pastor and notyou know, I was praying, reading
my Bible, but my sexualaddiction continued to grow.
It wasn't changing.
I'm confessing to my brother,my dad, I'm doing all the things
my religion is telling me to doto be free from this.
It's not like I'm glad I'mgetting away with it.
And I went to a sexual traumaassessment treatment therapist.
(26:28):
Now that was a big step for aPentecostal boy 27 years ago, bt
, and I said to him I love God,I'm married, I've got three kids
.
I can't be more sincere.
I've asked God to deliver me athousand times from this problem
and I went in on a Tuesday,hoping to be fixed by Friday so
(26:50):
I look good on Sunday, you knowand that that became a three
year relationship, learningabout how porn had put its
neural pathways in my brain andwe're going to do a process of
retraining the brain and aboutlearning where your traumas feed
that addiction and how to movetoward just a more holistic
approach of integrating the wayof God in all areas of our life.
I'll end with this on thislittle rift here, our silence
(27:12):
about sexuality or about eventrauma, because we don't know
how to speak about grieving andprocessing loss and trauma.
I think that's not helping usas well.
So the more we can integrateour teachings.
What does scripture say aboutgrieve, with those who grieve,
you know that our grief isn'twhat's wrong with us, it's
what's right with us, it's theappropriate response to loss.
(27:34):
So when you've been hurt, andthen our sexuality is something
that we can focus on growth, notperfection and home becomes the
safest place to learn.
So, anyway, I'll end on thatone Well end on this.
BT Irwin (27:49):
Instead, Tell us about Pure Desire Ministries and what
you have to offer forChristians and congregations
that want to face this pornepidemic head on.
Rodney Wright (27:59):
Well, I couldn't be more thrilled to partner with
Pure Desire and to be just apart of what God's doing.
We feel like this is a part ofa movement that God's raising up
, not just a ministry.
There are so many wonderfulcounseling treatment programs,
ministries that God's raising upto men and women who found
healing in their sexualbrokenness and now are sharing
(28:21):
their story to lower shame, kindof starting a different Me Too
movement so that this pandemicproblem that we talked about can
really help.
And Pure Desire?
It was started almost 30 yearsago, informally from our founder
, dr Ted Roberts, but we're awonderful ministry that takes
the, the clinical studies of thebrain and integrates them in
(28:44):
what the scripture speaks about.
So we're biblically informedand clinically based as well, or
clinically informed, biblicallybased.
I should say it that way.
Pure desire is clinicallyinformed and biblically based.
So, uh, when you look at how,how addiction affects the brain,
when you look at how traumasthat we don't know how to
process, we use addiction, andthen what scripture speaks about
(29:08):
renewing of the mind, and yousee that all of these are
spiritual Truth is truth, nomatter where you find it Right.
If it's true, it's true, and solearning just how scripture is
really affirming what science isfinding about the brain and how
we transform as individuals.
So I love Pure Desire.
They help betrayed spouses.
They have an education wingwith podcasts and resources for
(29:32):
parents that will be coming outDecember 3rd.
There's a youth pastorcurriculum that will come out
for youth pastors that will beready at the end of this year as
well.
And then there's groups for menand women.
You can join online groupsthrough Zoom.
You can join betrayed partnergroups if you're a betrayed
spouse and help you navigate thetrauma of that betrayal.
We have about 17 cliniciansthat work with couples
(29:55):
individually and we're in over1,200 churches around the
country, and this year I thinkwe had over 150 online groups
that met.
So I meet with pastors andmissionaries in my group.
In fact, if you're a pastorhearing this, I'd love to have
you join a group and be on thiscommitment of learning this.
Hey, I'm going to face this andallow God to write a brave new
(30:17):
ending to my story.
BT Irwin (30:20):
Well, rodney Wright is the Advancement Specialist with
Pure Desire Ministries, apastor and author of how to Talk
With your Kids About Sex.
You'll find links to all of theresources he mentioned in this
interview and apparently he alsoknows where to get some
Christian tacos.
Rodney, thank you for havingthe sex talk with us today.
You're welcome.
You're so welcome.
We hope that something youheard in this episode encouraged
(30:44):
, enlightened or enriched you insome way.
If it did, thank God, andplease pay it forward.
Subscribe to the podcast andshare it with a friend.
Recommend and review itwherever you listen to your
favorite podcasts.
Your subscription,recommendation and review help
us reach more people, and pleasesend your comments, ideas and
(31:08):
suggestions to podcast atchristianchronicleorg.
Don't forget our ministry toinform and inspire Christians
and congregations around theworld is a non-profit ministry
that relies on your generosity.
So if you like the show and youwant to keep it going and make
it better, please make atax-deductible gift to the
Christian Chronicle atchristianchronicleorg.
Until next time, may grace andpeace be yours in abundance.
Holly Linden (31:27):
The Christian Chronicle Podcast is a
production of the ChristianChronicle Inc.
Informing and inspiring Churchof Christ congregations, members
and ministries around the worldsince 1943.
The Christian ChronicleManaging Editor is Audrey
Jackson, editor-in-chief BobbyRoss Jr and President and CEO
(31:49):
Eric Trigestad.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted
and edited by BT Irwin and isproduced by James Flanagan in
Detroit, michigan, usa.
Welcome to the Christian Chronicle Podcast.
We are bringing you the storyshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
Here is our host, BT Irwin.
BT Irwin (00:14):
Family and friends, neighbors and, most of all,
strangers.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle Podcast.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
We need to talk about sex.
I don't mean you and me, thatwould be weird.
I mean the Church of Christneeds to talk about sex and we
here at the Christian Chronicleare in the mood.
(00:36):
The mood to get theconversation started.
And just so you know that we'renot trying to be salacious.
This episode emerged from twonews stories that came out in
late 2024.
The first was a report from theBarna Group, that esteemed and
trusted Christian researchorganization that explores the
trends affecting faith, cultureand ministry.
(00:59):
According to new research fromBarna, attitudes about sex are
changing among Christians.
In the United States, forexample, over three in five
Christians say that it ispossible for a person to look at
porn on a regular basis andstill live a sexually healthy
life.
Also, almost half 49% ofChristians who admit to looking
(01:21):
at porn say they are quotecomfortable with how much
pornography they use.
End quote.
You'll hear more about that ina moment.
The second news story came fromthe Christian Chronicle's own
Bobby Ross Jr, who reported thatAdventures in Missions or AIM
for short, a popular missionarytraining program at Sunset
International Bible Institute inLubbock, texas, discovered the
(01:43):
need for sex education amongthose who are in the program.
No, I'm not talking about thatkind of sex education.
Rather, over years of workingwith missionaries in training,
the folks at AIM came torecognize two things.
First, sexual assault andsexual sins are a reality that
(02:22):
missionaries for the field.
For that they enlisted Hollyand Steve Holliday, co-founders
of Ultimate Escape, a ministrythat equips individuals,
families, churches and otherorganizations to address
sexuality with intentionalityand sensitivity.
This includes pastoralcounseling for teens and adults
looking for help with issuesincluding sexual trauma and
(02:42):
abuse, sexual identity confusionand sexual addiction.
Starting with this episode,you're going to get a double
dose of sex talk this week,meaning we're giving two
episodes on the subject.
In this one, episode 109,you'll hear from Rodney Wright,
the Advancement Specialist withPure Desire Ministries, who
exists to provide a safe placeto find hope and healing from
(03:04):
the effects of sexual brokenness.
Rodney is also a pastor andauthor of how to Talk with your
Kids About Sex.
Pure Desire and Barna Grouprecently published the
aforementioned joint study onporn use among Christians in the
United States.
Before we get into it, though,please be advised this
conversation is candid andperhaps too explicit or graphic
(03:25):
and I mean those terms in a goodway for what some parents or
grandparents may want theiryoungsters to hear.
So if you don't want to bebombarded with questions you're
not ready to answer, maybe savethis one for a time when the
kids are not around.
And with that let's get toRodney Wright.
Rodney, thank you for being onthe show.
Honored to be with you, bt.
It's a pleasure to have you.
So in the lead up to thisconversation I read some of the
(03:47):
key findings from the Barnastudy and our listeners just
heard that in the intro to theshow.
What in that study jumped outat you or surprised you the most
?
Rodney Wright (03:57):
Well, it didn't really surprise me.
It just kind of affirmed whatI've known, after speaking in
over 100 churches the last fiveyears, is this is still a hard
subject for churches to address,and our silence hasn't been
helping the problem.
And so the problem is stillthere and it's growing and
having even greater impact.
Interesting our culture isreally influencing our church,
(04:23):
and so two and three US adults61% report viewing porn, and
half of those are looking atporn and no one knows they're
doing it.
So it continues to be a problemwithin culture and even within
the church.
BT Irwin (04:42):
I shared this report with a couple of other Church of
Christ ministers who this istheir full-time ministry and
they both said that they thinkthe numbers in the report are
low.
They said those are just thepeople who responded in the
affirmative but they suspected,the numbers were much higher in
reality.
Rodney Wright (05:03):
Yeah, Well, technology is such a wonderful
gift because of access, evenwhat we're doing here today in
this podcast but technology hasto be managed and unfortunately
same with sexuality.
We don't know, we haven'talways done well about educating
about a stewardship issue, andso we steward our time, our
money.
We also have to steward oursexuality and our technology,
(05:26):
and so that's kind of what wewould call holistic spirituality
, integrating your faith in allareas of your life.
BT Irwin (05:33):
Well put.
So the Barna report shows thatChristians' attitudes or
opinions about porn have changedover the last eight years.
If you had to take an educatedguess, what would you say are
the factors contributing to thechange in attitude?
Rodney Wright (05:49):
Well, in my opinion, the change in attitude
has to do with our lack ofholistic spirituality, and what
I mean by that is I'm not goingnew age on everybody here, I'm
just talking about learning howto love the Lord, your God, with
all your heart, all your soul,all your mind, all your strength
, integrating the way of God inour mind, in our emotions, in
our sexuality.
(06:09):
And so, I think, a lack ofeducation.
To be honest with you, I'mgrateful for this wonderful
organization we work forRepresent Pure Desire, that's,
providing competent resourcesfor men and women who struggle
with pornography as well asbetrays partners.
And now we're moving towardeducation.
We're moving toward resourcesthat teach mom and dad how to be
(06:32):
the sex educators of their kids, and I think this is, in my
opinion, this BT is the realproblem.
We don't know how to talk, usesexual language in a healthy way
.
We've typically only heardsexual language in a derogatory
way.
So if I were to use thelanguage in a healthy way?
We've typically only heardsexual language in a derogatory
way so if I were to use thelanguage of penis, vagina,
intercourse?
Some of us just feel like thoseare evil words because we've
(06:54):
never just said no, they'resexual terms, and sexuality is
innately evil.
We're made in the image of God,male and female, and our
sexuality is a wonderful gift.
We just never learned how toeducate and normalize the
conversation, especially withinreligion, in my opinion, the
Christian, western Christianity.
BT Irwin (07:13):
That's a good point.
I wonder if perhaps porn is soaccessible, so cheap, so easy
and so private.
Now you mentioned that mostpeople are using it and nobody
else knows that.
It kind of floods the zone tothe point that resistance just
feels futile.
It's like one time we went tothe amusement park and we got
our shoes and our shorts wet ona water ride.
(07:34):
So when it started pouring downrain, we just went ahead and
started splashing in puddles,because you know why not.
You know part of us is alreadywet, so why try to keep the rest
of us dry when it's raining?
Just telling people not to lookat porn is like giving someone
a small umbrella and tellingthem to not get even the least
bit damp walking around theblock in a downpour.
What are we to do?
Rodney Wright (07:56):
Yeah, yeah, the onslaughts.
Well, this is such a greatquestion.
It's interesting.
Let me let me read you thisstat here about just some of the
negative effects.
Even though nearly half ofAmericans think watching porn
has little impact on their life,its ripple effects include
significant declines in mentalhealth and well-being.
(08:20):
Use porn report higher levelsof negative well-being in areas
like self-criticism,perfectionism, anxiety and
depression than those who don'tuse it.
So it's having a negativeeffect on society, it's having a
negative effect on individuals.
(08:40):
And so to raise up our hand andsay it's just so accessible, why
even try to resist this?
Because it's having a negativeeffect.
And we would say that our humansexuality is a wonderful gift.
Sometimes a good gift just getsused in the wrong way.
And so Jesus we would say thatthe claims of Jesus is always
(09:01):
showing us how to live thebetter way, and that includes
our sexuality.
When done right, our humansexuality becomes heaven on
earth, and when mismanaged, itcan become a living hell.
And for those of us, likemyself, who've struggled with
sexual addiction, those who'vebeen hurt by their partner's
betrayal or those who arevictims of the whole pornography
(09:23):
industry, many of us havewitnessed firsthand just the
destruction that pornographybrings in a life and individuals
.
BT Irwin (09:31):
I'm glad you brought that up and I'm glad that the
report made that connection.
I've never heard it put that waybefore, which is surprising
because I'm 48 years old and soone of the things that one of
the things that I mentioned in arecent episode in another
interview to some other peoplethat do a similar ministry that
(09:53):
you do is, you know, one inthree American adults, I believe
, report being lonely, reportmental health issues, and so I
see kind of a vicious cycle herethat you're saying that porn
use can feed into anxiety,depression, loneliness, and then
people are self-medicating forthose things with porn, which
(10:14):
just leads to a downward spiral.
Rodney Wright (10:17):
Yeah, Well, we live in such a sexualized
culture and the access becomesgreater and greater.
I love organizations likeCulture Refrained, non-faith
based, but they're really goingafter the porn industry saying
it's a public health issue byallowing our children to be
exposed at any age as long asthey just can find a device.
And so there's the reality ofhow the impact is so difficult
(10:43):
for families and kids.
This is really helpful and Iforgot what your question was in
trying to make that statement.
I'm sorry, that's fine.
BT Irwin (10:51):
Actually, there wasn't a question mark on the end of
it, it was just a period, andthen you just riffed on that.
Holly Linden (10:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
BT Irwin (10:58):
The first time I saw this Barna research a couple of
months ago.
It was in a news article that Iencountered when scanning the
headlines one morning, and thisline from the news report
grabbed me.
Quote researchers noticedwaning interest in hosting porn
recovery ministries and churchesover the past few years.
End quote.
And that is remarkable,considering that a lot of
(11:20):
experts that I and likely a lotof other congregational leaders
read say that the isolation ofthe pandemic contributed to a
rise in personal porn use.
So you'd think thatcongregations would be more
aware of this than ever.
You work with congregations andcongregational leaders all the
time.
Why do you think that interestin porn recovery ministries is
(11:41):
waning in our churches right now?
Rodney Wright (11:45):
Well, bt, as we spoke just before we recorded,
I've spoken in over 100 churchesin the last five years.
If I go to any church inAmerica and I stand up and say,
hey, we've got real problems inhuman sexuality, it's affected
culture and it's affecting thechurch, everybody would agree.
So if I say, hey, if you havebeen sexually abused or you've
(12:06):
been a betrayed partner oryou're currently struggling with
sexual addiction to pornographyor you're in an affair or had
an affair or have any negativesexual history, our organization
can help you.
We have competent resources andcompassionate people.
Just meet me in the lobby bythe green tablecloth, right, and
I'll be there and I'll be readyto give you these resources.
Now, do you know how many aregoing to show up in the lobby by
(12:30):
the green tablecloth?
Yeah, right, and why is that?
Why would you think that's likethat?
Let me ask you that questionwhat's the one word that would
cause people not to go?
BT Irwin (12:39):
I don't know if I can say it in one word, but I don't
think.
In the lobby in front ofeverybody else, shame.
Rodney Wright (12:46):
Yeah Right, Shame .
And you even mentioned the wordcaught.
Hey, if I'm a victim, I'm notcaught.
I haven't done anything wrong,I'm just a victim of betrayal
from my partner, Right?
So the problem, in my opinion,is there's so much negative
shame around sexuality or sexualmismanagement, as I say that,
that in the church we haven'teven know how to bridge this
(13:07):
conversation about sexuality,and so sometimes we think about
the extreme of sexual brokennessSomeone's a pedophile or those
kind of things, and there's alot of those labels that create
shame.
I go to those same hundredchurches.
I say, hey, my name's RodneyWright and I'm 57, born in
Salinas, California, and I sayhow many would agree with me?
(13:31):
We cannot let pornography bethe sex educator of our kids any
longer.
Everybody, in fact.
I'll wait just a moment.
Raise your hand if you think weshould not let porn be the sex
educator.
And every hand's going up inthe crowd, Even granny's raising
her hand, and she's not quitesure what the word porn means.
She's thinking it's like cornor something you know.
But the point I'm saying isthen I say, hey, I want all of
(13:52):
you to join us, all adults andeven the high school kids on a
training on how to talk withyour kids about sex, because
we're going to begin to educateyou about redeeming this whole
conversation about sex, sexeducation, because it's been too
long that we've let thepornographers become the sex
educators.
In fact, let me tell you mystory and then I go into my
(14:13):
journey of a kid being raisedsexual addiction very religious
home.
You know my dad was a crossbetween Billy Graham, Ronald
Reagan and John Wayne.
That was my dad, you know, apastor at a church of 1500 in
the seventies there in Modesto,California.
So there was no way I was goingto him.
When I was 12 and saw porn forthe first time and I tell people
I'm old, the stuff I saw waschiseled on a rock.
(14:35):
You know we didn't have iPhones, so to speak, but nevertheless
everybody wants to educate theirkid and grandkid.
It's noble to help others, evenif we're sitting there in our
own pain and trauma from what'shappened to us or what we've
been participating in.
So I think it's a real issue ofjust reclaiming human sexuality
is good and giving a frameworkthat helps the church and church
(14:59):
leaders know how to lean in.
And we know that many churchleaders to addiction runs with
pastors, men or women.
So it's not just a pew issue,it's a pulpit issue, and so,
because of a lack of educationor a lack of just, if we bring
it here, it might expose the onethat's leading.
It creates all kinds offrameworks that just make it
(15:21):
difficult for churches to leaninto this.
BT Irwin (15:23):
I have a couple of unscripted questions here that
just came to me while you weretalking.
I have a couple of unscriptedquestions here that just came to
me while you were talking.
One of them is I grew up in avery conservative Church of
Christ environment and most ofmy buddies did too.
Growing up, I went off toChristian college and all of us
were saving ourselves formarriage and as far as I know,
(15:45):
most, or maybe all of ussucceeded in saving ourselves
from marriage.
But one of the one of the thingsthat did that's a good thing,
right One of the things that didis I even perceived it then is
that it kind of created almostan over-sexualized, um, a
culture among us as in uh, we,we didn't have sex, sex, but we
(16:10):
thought about it and talkedabout it all the time and it
became this bigger and biggerthing in our imaginations before
we got married.
And so a lot of my friends inChristian college not going to
name any names, guys, you'resafe struggled with porn.
That was when the internet juststarted coming out and I've
(16:33):
always wondered if there was acorrelation between how we were
trying so hard to be so pure,almost sterile, you know and yet
sex was always this huge thingthat just got bigger and bigger
and bigger as we got closer to amarriage age and I saw how we
struggled so much and we wereashamed of the struggle, so of
(16:55):
course we didn't tell anybody,so I don't know if you can riff
on that experience.
Holly Linden (17:00):
You've been around a lot of churches.
Rodney Wright (17:04):
Well, let me just say this I think that the heart
behind the purity culture andwhat they call the purity ring
Right that was my time, yeah, Ithink the heart behind that was
really good.
They wanted kids to make healthydecisions on managing their
sexuality.
So let me give you somelanguage that I'll use here that
I think is really good when itcomes to talk about sexuality,
(17:25):
not talk about Christian sex andsecular sex.
I was kind of raised in thatworld where everything was
Christian Christian music,christian friends, you know,
christian tacos, you know justkind of kind of you know
whatever.
And then sexuality got throwninto that too Christian sex,
non-christian sex, but languagelike healthy sexuality and
unhealthy sexuality, and thenlanguage like manage and
(17:48):
mismanage.
I think those are real properterms and so why there was a
real emphasis on you know, don'thave intercourse, be a virgin.
People were acting out in allkinds of other ways sexually
that mismanaging their sexualitythrough pornography.
That were causing them evenprobably more pain in some ways,
because it became secret, itbecame compulsive and it became
(18:09):
addictive in their life.
So now they get married as avirgin and yet they've got this
whole issue of pornographythat's going on in their life
Right.
So I think that part of theissue that kind of comes to my
mind is that we don't givepeople the reason why managing
your sexuality in healthy waysis the better way.
(18:31):
And just showing that God gaveus sex, in my opinion, for three
reasons For procreation, that,as God creates, we could
participate in creating, whichis just a miracle.
My sister's a labor anddelivery nurse in California, so
she witnesses miracles comingout of the womb every day.
God gave us sexuality forpleasure.
That's why he put nerve endingsin the head of the penis and in
(18:52):
the clitoris.
God did that right.
God did that.
And then for bonding.
And unfortunately all that,when done right, makes a
beautiful marriage connectionbonding.
Outside of that, we begin tobond to a body part or an image
on a screen or we begin to haveall this negative sexual history
that kind of causes distortionto us.
(19:13):
So even when we move intomarriage, marriage doesn't
change us.
It just reveals more of what itfinds in us and if we're
unhealthy it will reveal that.
So in our book we wrote a bookhow to Talk with your Kids we
replaced the purity ring withthe value ring and I'll tell
this quick story if I can.
It's a ring I gave to mydaughter when she turned 16.
I took her out and I got hernails painted and I took her to
(19:37):
some jewelry stores and welooked at a bunch of rings and
she found this ring.
Put it on.
The jeweler said, mr Wright,that ring costs $10,000.
I said to my daughter, whitney,hey, we're close, it doesn't
match your eyes, but let's keeplooking, we're almost there.
So I found a ring in thehundreds not the thousands of
out of this ring and I said toher BT, this is not a purity
(19:58):
ring or a promise ring.
This isn't your promise to us.
This ring is called the valuering and this is our promise to
you that your worth and valuewill never change in our eyes,
regardless of your behavior.
You will always be our beloveddaughter and we want you to make
good decisions in your lifeabout how you manage all kinds
(20:19):
of things, your sexuality andyour honesty, and not cheating
and not stealing.
But, honey, I wouldn't give youall these rings and all these
fingers for you to make allthese external promises.
So I want to reinforcesomething your worth and value.
I want you to see how valuableyou are on the inside and all
the decisions you make I wantyou to make from a sense of
(20:40):
seeing your worth and value andknow that if you ever struggle
in anything, you can always cometo mom and dad, because we have
nothing but your best interestand we want to learn how to help
, how to train and guide you,not shame and punish.
So in the purity culture, whenthey lost their virginity, they
would either lie to theirparents and keep the ring on or
they would give back the ringand just kind of live in shame,
like, well, I guess I'm damagedgoods.
(21:01):
And because of my sexualaddiction and my mismanagement
of sexuality as a young manbefore marriage, I had so much
shame around my sexuality as ayoung man that, man, this was a
huge hurdle to overcome, and sopart of this whole conversation,
I think, is starting from aneducation place and a love place
and a value place.
(21:22):
A second piece of that and youcan cut to this later, but a
second piece of that is we putso many eggs in our culture in a
sexual basket.
Yeah, yeah, and this is whatculture does.
In my opinion, bt, our greatesthuman need isn't orgasm or
intercourse.
Our greatest human need isconnection.
(21:42):
Yes, it's intimate connection,and intimacy just means into me.
You see, I can be seen, known,loved, I can share what I'm
thinking, but I can even sharemy emotions, what I'm feeling,
what's going on in my life andI'm safe.
That's our greatest human need.
And in our book we talk thatone of the best things you can
(22:03):
share with your kids is how tomake those healthy intimate
connections.
Now I say to people in churchesI have a lot of intimate female
connections and they go oh no,rodney.
But I say only one is sexual,that's with my wife, tracy.
But I'm very intimate with mymother, who's 95, my sister, my
daughter.
They're not sexual but they'reintimate.
(22:24):
We share our lives with eachother.
And then I say I have a lot ofintimate male relationships,
right, and they go oh man,you're messed up more than we
thought.
I say I'm in recovery groupswith a lot of guys.
They're not sexual but they'revery intimate, because that's
our greatest need is to beintimate, to be known, seen and
loved.
And so this is where I thinkall the confusion really lies.
(22:46):
Our young kids are putting somuch eggs in that sex basket.
If I just have sex with ascreen, if I just have sex
virtually, if I just lack thesame sex or change my sex, we
think sex changes everything, itfixes everything.
And those of us that have liveda few years we look back and
say that's not our greatesthuman need.
Our greatest human need is tobe known, loved and seen and to
(23:08):
know you're worthy of love andyou belong.
BT Irwin (23:11):
I want to end with a couple of questions here.
I want to circle back tochurches.
First of all.
You talked a moment ago abouttalking about these things from
the pulpit.
You're a pastor yourself.
I preach regularly.
We have a lot of people wholisten to this show, who are
also in pulpits every Sunday,and my question is if our
(23:34):
primary responsibility in thepulpit is to proclaim the death,
burial and resurrection ofJesus Christ, how then do we
make sex and sexuality a part ofthe message that we speak to
our congregations from thepulpit?
This is a great question.
Rodney Wright (23:53):
Thank you for asking it.
You teed it up pretty high.
I at least got to get a basehit here.
So thank you.
I think, just like Dave Ramseycomes to churches and educates
about how to manage resources,finances, in a healthy way, I
think the role of the pastor isto simply say, not necessarily
for the next eight weeks, we'regoing to do sex education on
(24:14):
Sunday morning on a broadaudience but simply saying, hey,
there are people and resourcesthat we've connected with that
want to educate us, that havecompetent resources and are
really going to train us abouthow to take the truth of
scripture, understand about howGod wired us and begin to
educate about healthy sexuality.
(24:35):
And so if people could see justintegrating sexuality as a
discipleship tool and having aclass or a workshop where Pure
Desire has Sexual Integrity 101,that it's an eight-week course
that you can take as just a partof your holistic discipleship.
And this is the point Imentioned earlier in the
broadcast we don't know how toeducate and we don't know how to
(24:58):
train about healthy sexualmanagement.
So, young Rodney, young BT andyour friends, that when you guys
were in high school, hey guys,porn can affect the brain.
Here's what it does.
It's not just a moral problem,it's a brain problem and it's
about retraining the brain,which the neuroplasticity is the
word in neuroscience.
But the Bible calls thatrepentance, metanoia, changing
(25:22):
how you think, right.
That's the work of repentance.
It's an ongoing process ofidentifying those thinking
errors, those lies, andreplacing them with the truth.
So the pulpit should be a placeto move people toward education
.
I simply say parent educationis one of the best places to
start.
Come on, mom and dad, I didn'tget educated.
Let's educate the young, highschoolers and up, about how to
(25:44):
understand sexuality and manageit in a healthy way.
And when people can own theirstory.
Um Bernay Brown has this quoteif you deny your, if you, when
you deny your story, it definesyou, hmm.
But when you own it you canwrite a brave new ending.
And when I found Pure Desire,you know, my recovery started 27
years ago in a therapist'soffice.
(26:05):
I was a young pastor and notyou know, I was praying, reading
my Bible, but my sexualaddiction continued to grow.
It wasn't changing.
I'm confessing to my brother,my dad, I'm doing all the things
my religion is telling me to doto be free from this.
It's not like I'm glad I'mgetting away with it.
And I went to a sexual traumaassessment treatment therapist.
(26:28):
Now that was a big step for aPentecostal boy 27 years ago, bt
, and I said to him I love God,I'm married, I've got three kids
.
I can't be more sincere.
I've asked God to deliver me athousand times from this problem
and I went in on a Tuesday,hoping to be fixed by Friday so
(26:50):
I look good on Sunday, you knowand that that became a three
year relationship, learningabout how porn had put its
neural pathways in my brain andwe're going to do a process of
retraining the brain and aboutlearning where your traumas feed
that addiction and how to movetoward just a more holistic
approach of integrating the wayof God in all areas of our life.
I'll end with this on thislittle rift here, our silence
(27:12):
about sexuality or about eventrauma, because we don't know
how to speak about grieving andprocessing loss and trauma.
I think that's not helping usas well.
So the more we can integrateour teachings.
What does scripture say aboutgrieve, with those who grieve,
you know that our grief isn'twhat's wrong with us, it's
what's right with us, it's theappropriate response to loss.
(27:34):
So when you've been hurt, andthen our sexuality is something
that we can focus on growth, notperfection and home becomes the
safest place to learn.
So, anyway, I'll end on thatone Well end on this.
BT Irwin (27:49):
Instead, Tell us about Pure Desire Ministries and what
you have to offer forChristians and congregations
that want to face this pornepidemic head on.
Rodney Wright (27:59):
Well, I couldn't be more thrilled to partner with
Pure Desire and to be just apart of what God's doing.
We feel like this is a part ofa movement that God's raising up
, not just a ministry.
There are so many wonderfulcounseling treatment programs,
ministries that God's raising upto men and women who found
healing in their sexualbrokenness and now are sharing
(28:21):
their story to lower shame, kindof starting a different Me Too
movement so that this pandemicproblem that we talked about can
really help.
And Pure Desire?
It was started almost 30 yearsago, informally from our founder
, dr Ted Roberts, but we're awonderful ministry that takes
the, the clinical studies of thebrain and integrates them in
(28:44):
what the scripture speaks about.
So we're biblically informedand clinically based as well, or
clinically informed, biblicallybased.
I should say it that way.
Pure desire is clinicallyinformed and biblically based.
So, uh, when you look at how,how addiction affects the brain,
when you look at how traumasthat we don't know how to
process, we use addiction, andthen what scripture speaks about
(29:08):
renewing of the mind, and yousee that all of these are
spiritual Truth is truth, nomatter where you find it Right.
If it's true, it's true, and solearning just how scripture is
really affirming what science isfinding about the brain and how
we transform as individuals.
So I love Pure Desire.
They help betrayed spouses.
They have an education wingwith podcasts and resources for
(29:32):
parents that will be coming outDecember 3rd.
There's a youth pastorcurriculum that will come out
for youth pastors that will beready at the end of this year as
well.
And then there's groups for menand women.
You can join online groupsthrough Zoom.
You can join betrayed partnergroups if you're a betrayed
spouse and help you navigate thetrauma of that betrayal.
We have about 17 cliniciansthat work with couples
(29:55):
individually and we're in over1,200 churches around the
country, and this year I thinkwe had over 150 online groups
that met.
So I meet with pastors andmissionaries in my group.
In fact, if you're a pastorhearing this, I'd love to have
you join a group and be on thiscommitment of learning this.
Hey, I'm going to face this andallow God to write a brave new
(30:17):
ending to my story.
BT Irwin (30:20):
Well, rodney Wright is the Advancement Specialist with
Pure Desire Ministries, apastor and author of how to Talk
With your Kids About Sex.
You'll find links to all of theresources he mentioned in this
interview and apparently he alsoknows where to get some
Christian tacos.
Rodney, thank you for havingthe sex talk with us today.
You're welcome.
You're so welcome.
We hope that something youheard in this episode encouraged
(30:44):
, enlightened or enriched you insome way.
If it did, thank God, andplease pay it forward.
Subscribe to the podcast andshare it with a friend.
Recommend and review itwherever you listen to your
favorite podcasts.
Your subscription,recommendation and review help
us reach more people, and pleasesend your comments, ideas and
(31:08):
suggestions to podcast atchristianchronicleorg.
Don't forget our ministry toinform and inspire Christians
and congregations around theworld is a non-profit ministry
that relies on your generosity.
So if you like the show and youwant to keep it going and make
it better, please make atax-deductible gift to the
Christian Chronicle atchristianchronicleorg.
Until next time, may grace andpeace be yours in abundance.
Holly Linden (31:27):
The Christian Chronicle Podcast is a
production of the ChristianChronicle Inc.
Informing and inspiring Churchof Christ congregations, members
and ministries around the worldsince 1943.
The Christian ChronicleManaging Editor is Audrey
Jackson, editor-in-chief BobbyRoss Jr and President and CEO
(31:49):
Eric Trigestad.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted
and edited by BT Irwin and isproduced by James Flanagan in
Detroit, michigan, usa.
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