Lauren and Owen Mitchell drop in to talk about what they've learned about building a great marriage -- from being Marriage Dynamics Institute facilitators for more than 25 years and by practicing marriage together for more than 28 years. In this conversation, they focus on how the small things often make the biggest difference in how partners experience marriage. This one is full of practical pointers that even the busiest and most stressed-out couples can start using today.
Click here for a link of upcoming ReConnect Weekend marriage retreats (referenced in the interview)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Christian Chronicle Podcast.
We are bringing you the storyshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
Here is our host, BT Irwin.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Family and friends, neighbors and, most of all,
strangers.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle Podcast.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
This one is coming to you likeCupid's arrow just before
Valentine's Day 2025.
So, my fellow husbands, if youforgot to order the flowers,
here is your last reminder.
In the spirit of Valentine'sDay, we thought it would be fun
(00:37):
and useful to focus this episodeon marriage.
If you're married, you'd liketo get married, or you're not
married, but you want to beaffirming and supportive of
those who are married, thisepisode is for you.
Our guests today have beendevoting their lives not only to
their own marriage, but themarriages of thousands of
Christians around the world.
For the last quarter century,lauren and Owen Mitchell have
(00:57):
been hosting Reconnect Weekendmarriage seminars at churches
all over the place, going backto when they first started
working with Marriage DynamicsInstitute in 1998.
They've been married for 28years, so the most important
lessons they've learned aboutmarriage they've learned by
being married for a long time.
Lauren and Owen are members ofOrange Avenue Church of Christ
in Eustis, florida.
(01:17):
Lauren Owen happy Valentine'sDay.
What are your Valentine's Dayplans this year?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Wow, that's an interesting question.
We're actually going to amemorial in Raleigh, north
Carolina, for a long-term churchmember and going to spend time
with my brother, my brother andsister-in-law and just be around
a bunch of people that wehaven't seen probably in 35
years.
(01:45):
So really maybe 1,500 people atthis memorial.
So actually really excited thatthat's going to be something
unique.
We fly to Raleigh on the 14thand fly back home to Orlando on
the 16th, and the rest of thattime we'll be with family
members and friends.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Okay, that sounds good.
We're actually driving toDisney World on Valentine's Day
this year.
Okay, that sounds good.
We're actually driving toDisney World on Valentine's Day
this year.
Okay, awesome, we'll be in theneighborhood.
So y'all travel all over theworld to host marriage retreats
for Christians.
I count that you're hosting 18retreats in 2025 in 11 states
and provinces, so you meethundreds of Christians every
(02:25):
year who come to you becausethey want help with their
marriages.
From all of these encounters,what do you observe about the
state of marriage amongChristians these days?
What's changed, if anything,since you started doing these
retreats, and what are some ofthe most common concerns or
questions that are coming to youthese days?
Speaker 4 (02:51):
We do marriage enrichment, so we tend to
interact with people who are onthe happy side of marriage.
But I would say that we do seethings that come up on a regular
basis.
A lot of it is people are toobusy and they lose sight of each
other, and people will onlytake neglect for just so long.
So when you become unhappy,that tends to override
(03:14):
commitment.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I think one of the things I've seen, especially
since COVID, is that people aremore willing to come to an event
now.
You know they're a while theywere shut up so long, so now
it's actually easier for us nowto get churches to say yes,
where it was a little bitdifficult in the inception.
We've been doing ReconnectWeekend now for 11 years and
(03:38):
probably averaged around 12events a year.
So we have 18 different typesof events this year, but we
already have scheduled for 2026,maybe four or five things that
we know are already going tohappen.
So getting churches to allow usto come in to me is a big
(03:58):
difference.
That now people are interested.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Can you tell us the story of how you met and got
married?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
that now people are interested.
Can you tell us the story ofhow you met and got married?
First of all, I was married thefirst time for 17 years.
I did get married my junioryear at Freed Hardeman College
and was married for 17 years.
My wife got cancer and afterfive months of treatment she
passed away.
So sometimes I like answeringthe question what's the nicest
thing that Lauren has ever donefor me?
(04:27):
So at the time that I, after mywife passed away, I was not only
looking for a companion, but Iwas also looking at someone that
could be a mother to my twochildren.
I had two smaller children atthe time and Lauren's sister had
been a very good friend of myfirst wife and we were at school
(04:48):
together and she introduced meto Lauren and part of that
equation was our kids hit it offwith her right away.
We started dating, she startedhelping them with their homework
, she started doing things withthem and we got married 13
months after my first wifepassed away.
(05:09):
And on the day that we gotmarried, our children, on their
own, decided to call her mom.
We've never functioned as asecond family.
We've always functioned in thatway that they refer to her as
mom.
We honor the first relationship, but she has her part of the
story too, so I kind of let hergo with that.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Well, I was also married before and it's kind of
strange that we were bothmarried for 17 years before.
We never had children and myhusband chose to leave for
someone else.
And at the point where Owen metme, I say I was 37, and I was
(05:53):
divorced and I had no childrenand he just told you he was
looking for somebody to be awife and a mother.
So he had no reason to think Icould do either one and he
married me anyway.
So we were in our late 30s whenwe married.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
What kind of difference do you think that
made?
Obviously, you came into thiswith some challenges that
younger couples don't have whenthey get married.
Oh, and you already had twodaughters, right?
Is that correct?
Son and a daughter Two yearsapart, yeah, two years apart.
Yeah, two years apart, you'dlost your wife Lauren.
(06:31):
Your husband left.
So talk about how you you knowsome of the unique challenges
that you overcame early on inyour relationship.
And then, what kind ofdifference do you think it's
made to your marriage that youdid meet and marry later?
Speaker 4 (06:49):
I would say one thing for me, because we were coming
from completely differentperspectives.
It was a second marriage forboth of us, but I had trust
issues and he didn't.
He was used to being a parentand I wasn't.
There was a lot of a biglearning curve for me that I had
(07:12):
to learn to take him for who hewas and not what my baggage was
, and I had always wantedchildren.
So when I was able to be amother and I adopted them after
we had been married for aboutsix months, I just I'm not sure
(07:34):
how to explain it.
It was just there was no waythat it wasn't going to work.
It was just that perspectivecoming in.
This was it, and we were justgoing to do whatever it took.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
We had to blend three sides of the family and that
was, I say, a challenge but alsosomething that we really
aspired that we were going tomake work.
So I had two mother-in-laws andcontinued to care for my first
wife's mother-in-law and nurturethat relationship.
She's passed away now, butthere, toward the end, she was
(08:12):
introducing me as her son andshe was introducing Lauren as
her daughter-in-law.
So we had really won that partof the relationship over with
and our kids like Lauren betterthan they like me.
So yeah it really worked out ina good way, kind of our teamwork
(08:35):
.
We've been in the same housetoo.
We stayed in the same housethat I was with my first wife,
so now we've been in the house35 years, two miles from church,
five miles from where the kidswent to school.
So we gave them a stablerelationship.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
They're doing fantastic now, so we thought
they had had enough loss andthey didn't need to lose their
home and church, family andeverything that they knew.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So we just stayed where they had been their home
and church, family andeverything that they knew.
So we just stayed where theyhad been and you started
teaching a class on marriage atyour church in 1998, I think.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
So that was not long after y'all got married.
Is that right?
Less than two years?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Yeah, part of that story is that we really wanted
to try to do things together inministry and we went to a
conference where a guy got upand talked about hey, you can
learn to be quote a facilitator.
We never even heard the termbefore and said, hey, that's
something we might could dotogether.
So we went to a three day 15hour weekend to learn how to
(09:40):
facilitate classes, came back toour own church, had a great
first class said we wanted to doit again.
Now I think we've led that sameclass 23 times over the time
that we started doing it, whichled us again to start doing the
shorter weekends calledReconnect Weekend.
(10:02):
That was kind of the extensionof that.
Now we've been doing theReconnect Weekend 11 years but
we also do facilitator training.
So we train other couples howto do that same class that we
originally learned how to doback in 1998, which is a big
part of our marriage that welearned quote the skill set.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
I learned how to be a wife in the dynamic marriage
class, which was a keyfoundation for us learning all
of those things very early on,and then that set the trajectory
not only for our success, butfor what we've ended up doing.
So we still work with theMarriage Dynamics Ministry after
(10:48):
all these years.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
This is your second marriage.
For each one of you, thestatistics are fairly well known
.
In the United States, 50% offirst marriages end in divorce,
but actually it's much higherfor second marriages.
So 60 to 70% of secondmarriages end in divorce, which
is something a lot of peopledon't know.
You're both on your secondmarriage.
(11:09):
Obviously, you stay together.
Not only did you stay together,you started teaching classes on
marriage just a couple of yearsafter you got married.
What is it that has?
What's been your secret sauce?
What has kept you together inthis second marriage for each of
you?
Speaker 4 (11:24):
There's a whole list of things.
I think the second perspectiveum the second marriage
perspective, that was one umknowing that we had three
families depending on us wasanother um me coming in and not
wanting to fail, but then we gotresources and we followed
(11:49):
through and actually did what welearned to do and we've kept
doing what we learned to do.
So I think all of that factorsin.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yeah, I'll reinforce it, that the skill set and
language.
I think that you know languageis what couples need to learn,
like the words to use, thethings to go to.
We learned that language andskill set in 1998 and then
actually had to keep doing itRight.
Once you're doing something andyou're talking to others about
(12:21):
it and then you redo it again,it kind of continues to say, ok,
I know that's what is importantto you and we learn some of
that skill, and then it justbecame like part of our DNA to
use those words and just couplescoming back to you and
(12:49):
reinforcing to hey, we starteddoing what you said and we
started doing what we learnedand seeing their marriages
thrive.
I know you talked aboutpercentages and this may be a
little off.
The question Divorce issomewhere between 35 and 50
percent, but we try tocategorize where couples are in
a certain way.
To categorize where couples arein a certain way 25% great
marriages, 40% average marriages, 35% failing marriages.
(13:15):
It kind of gives a category.
So our goal is always trying toget couples to think where are
you or where are you heading inthat continuum and you have a
way to move from a failingmarriage to a average or good
marriage by doing certain things.
I love that someone says I'mcommitted, but you wouldn't want
to talk to someone that hadbeen married for 60 years and
(13:37):
say hey, how'd you do it andthey say, well, it's been a
horrible grind, but we made itright, we didn't divorce, we
didn't divorce, we didn'tdivorce.
You know, I'd rather say, hey,I've had a joyful or happy 60
years by doing things that wouldget quote a better result.
By changing some habits, smallthings right, that would get.
(13:58):
So we learn those things and alot of times if people just make
adjustments, they can move evenin that average phase to the
higher average of it and not beresigned but move toward better
things.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I don't want to get too far along without asking you
about the Reconnect weekendsthat, like you said, you've got
what?
18 this year in 2025.
So for people listening whohaven't been to one of your
retreats, talk about whathappens at a Reconnect weekend
and some of the things that youteach.
Just give them a littleappetizer of the kind of things
(14:35):
that you teach that helpmarriages move from failing to
average or average to good.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Okay, in a nutshell, we focus on intimacy.
Okay, in a nutshell, we focuson intimacy spiritual, emotional
(15:00):
and physical and we look atways that people can change
their daily habits ofinteraction together and you can
get big results and you startmoving towards the positive and
you work together.
That's where we just encouragecouples.
We the weekend is interactiveum, it's a bit fast paced as far
as moving from point to pointand activity to activity.
(15:23):
We get feedback that it'sinteresting and it's fun and
it's substantive, without beingoverwhelming.
And we've worked really hard tomake it non-judgmental, so even
the husbands like to come.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
She's making some great points.
We've kept our talks.
We realize people are sometimesinformationed out.
You know they hear a 45-minutesermon or then you go to a
seminar and it's just talkingall day long.
So we've kept our talks between15 and 18 minutes.
We both speak.
We've kept them shorter butthen we'll have some type of
(16:04):
activity, whether we watch avideo, ask a question to the
group.
We put two couples per table sothere's a little bit of
interaction between that coupleat each couple at the table.
Small, easy questions.
We even do people where we havepeople raise hands and answer
questions.
During our seminar, Even inlarger groups, we figured out
ways to take short answers, makeit work.
(16:27):
But it really flows wherepeople come up and say, hey,
we've been here two and a halfhours but it only feels like 30
minutes because we kept itinteresting Back to that kind to
look at.
So small things get big resultsis one of our kind of key
(16:56):
phrases.
We're all in the same boat.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Could you give us one example, because we want people
to come to the Reconnectweekends.
One example because we wantpeople to come to the Reconnect
weekends, but just as a littlecommercial here for those
weekends.
Can you give us one example ofone small thing?
You teach that you've seen bigresults in your own marriage and
in the marriages of people thathave come to the retreats.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
I would say let's just talk about the subject
affection.
We try to get people toidentify all seminar long things
that they're wanting to receive, because typically we go the
opposite way.
I'll start doing things forLauren, but it may not be
exactly what she wants me to do.
(17:38):
But if I ask her what are themost important things and she
says in the area of affection,I'd like for you to do ABC and I
follow up on those things, evenif I screw up a lot of other
things, because I'm doing thethings that are most important
to her.
(17:59):
It could be as simple as when Icome home, she's there at the
back door and she's greeting mewith open arms and our first
interaction when I get home.
Hey, it sets the tone for therest of the evening right.
Or it may be something assimple as the way she fixes my
food.
I give her a specific.
You know like this is importantto me if you have this and it's
(18:22):
just a matter of communicatingabout those things.
But after we do some of thoseactivities and we have couples
actually talk about thosebecause we make them talk about
them with each other, they'llcome up and say I didn't even
know that was important to them.
But now that I do, it's goingto be easy for me to follow
through on it.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
A couple of things we say if it's a priority for your
spouse, it's an opportunity foryou, and the perspective is
always you have to do this forme if you want me to love you
back.
That's the wrong perspective,because I can't do anything
about him.
I can only do something aboutme.
So my perspective has to bebecause I love him.
(19:00):
These are ways that I want toshow you how I feel, so the
responsibility is always on mefor my feelings and my actions.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I know that the difference between being in a
relationship when I was 29 andbeing in a relationship when I'm
49 is that I assumed I'dprobably watched too many
rom-coms when I was 29.
So I assumed that somebodywould read my mind and that I
would read their mind and justknow.
So, being in a marriage a longtime and learning I need to ask
(19:32):
questions and listen.
I'm not going to be able toread her mind.
That's been really important tome.
So have you noticed anydifference in you know, 11 years
you've been doing theseretreats and you've met, gosh,
probably thousands of Christiansnow that are, you say, in
probably pretty good marriages.
It's a marriage enrichmentexperience.
(19:53):
But have you noticed anychanges in the kinds of people
that are coming to the retreats,the kinds of questions and
concerns they raise with you orthe reasons that they're coming
to spend a weekend with you?
Speaker 4 (20:08):
I think sometimes people give an expected answer
we want to improve our marriageor we want to be the best for
each other, those kinds ofthings.
But I think what we keep seeingand hearing is people are way
too busy and they aren't payingattention.
(20:28):
You know, when you date, it'severything so focused on the
prize at hand.
And then people get married andthey tend to relax, and
sometimes they relax too much,and you can tell there are so
many things pulling at ourattention now and people forget
(20:49):
to pay attention to their spouseand neglect sets in.
And that's what I think we see.
A lot of people have stoppedconnecting emotionally, which
means they stop connectingphysically and they get in
trouble.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
We're so driven by our commercials, we're so driven
by the me generation and I'mnot saying these are obvious
things that anybody that talksabout marriage is going to say.
So it's not any phenomenalinformation.
But people allow themselves togo into big debt.
There's credit card debt, ifyou read any statistics.
They're allowing their phone tobe so much a part of their life
(21:30):
.
They're allowing their phone tobe so much a part of their life
we one of our phrases that weuse in our weekend is your
device can be divisive.
We start out our seminar, I turnaround and I completely ask
everybody to take their phoneeither out of their hand or off
their table and put it in aplace where they don't touch it.
It's very for people.
I make them mad right off thebat and I have people come up
(21:53):
and say hey, I realize that I'mlistening better.
I'm not, you know, because myphone is out of view and you
have to remind them.
On day two, same thing, becausepeople are so connected to that
thing and I like to say me too.
You know, non-judgment.
I've got to work on that withLauren.
I mean, I have to find waysthey put that aside and focus on
(22:15):
being an active listener.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
It's a huge distraction Yep, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, we, it's funny.
We Tracy, my wife and I.
We've been out to eat somewherebefore, or just out and about,
and we'll see, we'll, she'll.
She'll spot a couple at a tableand they're both on their
phones and she'll point them outto me.
Almost every time She'll saythat couple over there they
haven't looked at each other orspoken to each other the entire
(22:41):
time they've been sittingtogether.
Please don't ever let us becomelike that couple.
And uh, I'm proud to say I've,I've, learned my phone isn't
even out when we're, when we'retogether, it's always somewhere
else.
So that's something I've workedon very hard.
I want to let's get down tosome nitty gritty questions I
think our audience willappreciate.
Starting with this one, whatwould you say are the top three
(23:03):
marriage killers that you'veencountered these days?
And, on the other side of thecoin, what habits might
counteract those marriagekillers On the other?
Speaker 4 (23:11):
side of the coin, what habits might counteract
those marriage killers?
Well, we talked about beingselfish, which means you stop
focusing on the other personWe've talked about everybody has
negative habits, and when werelax and stop paying attention,
the balance can get out ofwhack.
When the negative habits build.
(23:31):
Balance can get out of whackwhen the negative habits build
and because feelings respond toactions, you have negative
feelings on the part of theother spouse, and so then
unhappiness sets in and it'sjust this downward spiral.
So habits that are negative,that are not addressed, are a
(23:51):
big thing, and then thatactually could go back to
selfishness too, because if itwasn't, if it wasn't working for
me, I'd probably change it,right, but if it's working for
me and I don't care if it reallyaffects you, then I'm just
going to keep doing it.
So I think there's a lot ofthat.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I'm just going to keep doing it.
So I think there's a lot ofthat Daily communication.
We're really big on trying toget people to think about what
time they spend with theirspouse and active listening
while we're dating.
I think the average says 15hours a week.
When we're dating somebody,that, hey, we're so in tune with
what they want.
We're looking our best,smelling our.
We're so in tune with what theywant.
We're looking our best,smelling our best, and then that
(24:33):
goes to average.
I'm just quoting 15 minutes aweek.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
A meaningful conversation.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Oh, my goodness, Shocking.
We like to say the importantthing for our relationship and
that we refer people to isscheduling a time daily, trying
to find a.
You know, we're at differentpoints in life.
People have children, they'reempty nest or wherever they are,
but sitting down and even 30minutes.
If I give Lauren 15 to 30minutes and I just say, lauren,
(25:06):
tell me how your day was, Idon't have my device, I'm just
totally listening to what shesays and not even trying to
solve anything, just being anactive listener, and then I take
my turn and we go back andforth.
Just that small benefit.
You don't have to do it 15hours, yes, fear somebody, but
if you're consistentlycommunicating and I would say to
(25:29):
you know, communicating and Iwould say too, you know problems
is just people unmetexpectations.
I think if couples would justcommunicate their expectations
in a better way to each otherand even try to find ways to
compromise what thoseexpectations might be, yeah, um,
we always say the price of thewedding has nothing to do with
(25:51):
the success of the relationship.
You know, people have thisgreat day, they spend a lot of
money, but then they don't goand get marriage education.
Marriage education is going tocarry people over so much to
have a much happier relationshipif they would take time to
learn you know what their spouseis actually wanting them to do.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Well, everybody thinks they know what they're
doing when they get married.
Right, we all think we know,and then, after we're married
for a little while, we quicklyfigure out.
We don't know nearly as much aswe thought, but the people that
take advantage of opportunitiesto learn and do better, they're
the ones that are going to dobetter, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
It is very hard, and I I I have gone through periods
of time where I felt like I feltlike there must be something
wrong with me because it shouldbe easier than this, right Like
I should just know what to do.
But it really taxes my brainsometimes to figure out how to,
um, how to really listen to mywife and how to respond, or how
(26:54):
to, uh, how to meet her needsand um, so it's, it's been a,
it's been a really good.
I say to her all the time uh,she's one of the best things
that's ever happened to me easy,because I've had to grow so
much just by being in arelationship with her, so she
really is a godsend.
I want to ask you on that point, though.
We've been married about 17years, my wife and I Many of my
(27:17):
friends got married long beforewe did so.
They're hitting the 25-year markor longer, and a lot of us have
shared an experience at somepoint in our marriages where we
just kind of went into a rut andwe kind of fell out of love
with our mates.
And I don't mean we stoppedloving our mates, it just kind
of got boring.
Maybe a little resentment setin, so we didn't feel the same
(27:39):
way.
I've come back from this myself.
I have friends who came backfrom this, but I have friends
who also have gone throughdivorce because of it.
What would you say to someonewho's listening right now and
they are just feeling really notattracted or excited or even
loving toward their spouse?
What can they do about that?
Speaker 4 (27:58):
I think the first thing I would say is we
encourage people to beintentional and sometimes we
forget that commitment means thelong haul.
So I think people have tointentionally choose to focus on
the positive and change theirmindset.
We tend to focus more on thenegative when we become unhappy
(28:22):
and that just adds to more ofthe downward spiral.
But if people would changetheir mindset, if you think
about it, scripture doesn't tellus to change our feelings.
It has a lot to say aboutdirecting our thoughts.
When we direct our thoughts inthe right way, our feelings and
then our actions will follow.
We can actually talk ourselvesinto and out of things based on
(28:44):
how we feel.
And if we take control of howwe feel by directing our
thoughts, then we can actuallyimprove things even when we
don't feel like it Becauseeventually, when you do the
right thing long enough, youwill feel like it and then get
help.
If you need help, get help.
Many people think, well, we'renot that bad, or I know a lot of
(29:10):
people in worse, or we can'tlet people know there's a lot of
things that would stop peoplefrom getting help, but there's
just resources.
Help doesn't mean that you'redivorcing.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
It means you'd like to learn how to do it just a
little bit better, right?
I think we like to use the termwhat are things that can
connect you in the relationship?
A term that we use isrecreational companionship.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Having fun together.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
We've had pretty good success in finding things and
you know, this is not even tobrag, it's just.
I think all couples have got tofind things.
We started taking our kidsearly on to national parks, back
when they were in middle school, early high school.
We just take them out of schoolone week in the fall, one week
(30:01):
in the spring, take them out ofschool during shoulder season,
go to national parks, and wejust learned this system of what
we could connect on.
Then we follow that up withchurch.
We're involved in a Bible studythat requires homework each week
and Lauren and I both do, andthat connects us.
We do things as a family of ourgrandkids over on Friday night
(30:24):
and we have things that we doeach week that connect us not
only with each other but withfamily members, of course,
pickleball.
We do that together.
We've been starting findingways we could go back and binge
watch some type of show that wasaired 20 years ago, right, and
we can watch, you know, three tofour episodes per week.
(30:45):
But what that does, it gives ustalking points.
We talk about it before we doit, we talk about it kind of
while it's going on and then wetalk about, hey, what happened
after is over with.
So it's kind of a flow, if youwould, of connecting and couples
have to find ways to connect.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
Find ways to prime the pump for conversation if
that's a difficult thing ifthat's a difficult thing.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I, my wife and I got in kind of a rut and we would
our evenings.
We we ended up spending themapart from each other.
She would be watching Hallmarkand I would be off in another
room working on something, andthen, I think it was when the
pandemic came along andeverything kind of shut down, we
(31:31):
had gotten the down Abbey boxedset for Christmas.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
And so we started watching Downton Abbey and that
became like a date every night,every night, after Daniel was in
bed, popped a big bowl ofpopcorn and we, you know, we'd
watch an episode or two ofDownton Abbey and we couldn't
wait for the next night.
And that that, like,rejuvenated our relationship,
(31:56):
because now we were talkingabout Downton Abbey all the time
and what's going to happen, andevery day there was this
anticipation of you know, it'sdate night tonight again.
You know, and uh, from DowntonAbbey we just moved on to other
we we started watching reallygood TV, uh in the evening, and
that that opened up a lot ofother um time yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
We got to get you to do a video clip and we'll we'll
play it at our reconnect weekendand say, look what this guy did
.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yeah, it was it was pretty awesome.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
Well.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Abby the mayor of.
Easttown.
And then we you know youmentioned pickleball.
We started playing pickleball,so we have a tonight's
pickleball night for us, so wehave at least one pickleball
date every week.
That's great, so it's beenawesome.
Well, I have a few lightninground questions here.
I want to ask you, if you don'tmind I don't know if we should
(32:48):
call these Cupid's arrow set alightning round in honor of
Valentine's Day.
We heard how you first met.
Can you tell us about yourfirst date?
Speaker 4 (32:56):
It was so creative dinner and a movie.
Except we actually never leftthe restaurant, we just sat and
talked all night long.
We talked for hours.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
What was the movie you were going to see?
Do you remember?
Speaker 4 (33:08):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
It could have been Mr Holland's opus.
Ok, I remember that.
I think we eventually saw that,maybe on the second day, so it
could have been that that's along time ago.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I feel like it would have been a little bit
terrifying for each one of you,for reasons you've already
touched on.
Owen, you lost your first wifeto cancer, and that happened
very quickly.
Owen, you lost your first wifeto cancer, and that happened
very quickly.
And Lauren, your husband, leftyou and so you admitted you had
trust issues.
So when you started to court todate each other, was there ever
(33:43):
a point where you got scared oryou had second thoughts about
things and almost broke up anddidn't go through with it?
Speaker 3 (33:53):
So no, but this did happen.
I told Laura and I said hey, Ithink we should just maybe not
see each other for a littlewhile, and I think we went
around a week.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
That was early on.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Early on and stopped kind of like seeing each other.
But what happened?
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Nothing it got our attention that we were more
connected already than werealized.
We probably only been datingmaybe a month and thought maybe
we were moving a little too fast.
But we we figured it out prettyquickly.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
We missed each other yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Did you say how long you dated before you got married
?
I don't remember.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
So probably nine months.
So started maybe in February,got married in December.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Early December.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
So then this next question is about your wedding.
What's one thing about yourwedding?
You're really glad you did.
And what's one thing about yourwedding?
Maybe you would have donedifferently in hindsight?
Speaker 4 (34:53):
Oh, this is so easy for me.
Okay, one thing that I likethat we really did.
My dad performed our ceremony.
He's done the ceremony for allof my siblings when they married
.
So he did our ceremony andthere was one point during the
ceremony that everyone in ourfamilies stood up and we had
(35:14):
people there from all threesides and families stood up and
took a pledge that they wouldsupport us in our marriage and I
loved that.
What I would do differently isI would pay attention to the
clock and I would prepare betterand actually show up on time to
my own wedding.
I would redo that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Interesting.
How late were you?
Speaker 4 (35:37):
I don't know.
They had run out of the tapedmusic and had started it over,
so I don't know how late I, justI was late.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
So, owen, were you getting a little nervous, so it
went well.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
I'm just going to say it went well.
My positive is that we had anice budget.
I say nice, a low budget.
We had a low budget and westuck with it and still had a
great wedding.
I call it a minimalistic budget.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
And yeah, a lot of good memories for sure.
The kids were the ones whostood up with us.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
That's good.
So y'all live very interestinglives national parks, pickleball
, traveling all over doingmarriage retreats.
So it's hard at this pointknowing you as I do after 50
minutes to imagine that you everwent through a boring or you
know, meh stretch of yourmarriage.
Did you ever go through astretch where it was kind of
(36:32):
like meh and how did you getinto it?
And then how did you get outagain?
Speaker 3 (36:37):
I'll say that we haven't had a bad stretch.
I would say our challengingstretch was the second secular
job I had while we were married.
I had it for 14 years and thatcompany sold some of the assets
and I retired early, between age60 and 61.
(36:58):
And that's kind of a twofold.
I didn't actually retire.
We started doing full-timemarriage weekends.
So we increased our marriageweekends from 8 to 10 up to 12
to 18 per year and I did notdraw my retirement.
I'm 67 now.
I've decided not to draw myretirement until 70.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
But when I was home all the time, those first three
to six months of being home,lauren said I didn't think
either one of us were ready forhim to be home all the time, so
I encouraged him to find a hobby.
He did it was pickleball.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
So we figured it out that I could.
I became an instructor and nowour daily rhythms we just know
what the other one's doing,where we're going, and, like
it's just no stress, we have thekind of least stressful
relationship.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
We have almost no drama.
We learn our rhythm right.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
So that that little, that little stretch of me being
home a lot we had to deal withthat.
I think other couples gothrough that at retirement.
You know, just all of a suddenwe're around each other 24 seven
.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, you found your groove.
And I need to ask one realquick question about the pickle.
Yeah, you, you found yourgroove.
And I need to ask one realquick question about the
pickleball.
Uh, oh, and you played tennisin college at Freed Hardman.
Did you continue to play tennis, uh, through life, or had you
given that up and and then?
Pickleball was a way to kind ofrevive your oh that's a good
question.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Yeah, I had stopped playing tennis.
I played competitively,probably into my late 30s, early
40s and kind of had a stretchof golf that I really was doing
a lot and then went from golf topickleball.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah, and you were quite good.
This is not a pickleballinterview, but you've won some
big championships.
We'll put a link in the shownotes so everybody can learn
about your pickleball career.
Is there a Valentine's Day thatwill forever live in your
memory as the best Valentine'sDay ever?
Speaker 4 (39:05):
You know we are kind of unusual, I think we don't
emphasize special days.
To be honest, we don't reallydo gifts either, which takes off
a lot of pressure.
We just we travel, that's whatwe do, and we don't try to work
it around specific days, evensomething that whenever, like if
(39:29):
we're about to take a trip,that's just a personal trip, oh,
and we'll tell me okay, this iswhat we're doing, and then
he'll say happy birthday, happyEaster and happy Mother's Day,
whatever the next three or fourthings coming up.
So it doesn't matter what we'redoing or what time of year it
is, whatever the next two orthree special days are.
That's my gift.
(39:50):
So, it works well for us.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
So, yeah, she made a great point.
That works well for us.
That's not condemning to othercouples that want to plan
special things.
I think back to learning yourcouples.
Part of our weekend is that weactually get couples to fill out
what are their expectations ofspecial days and a lot of times
we get unique answers that theother the spouse, the husband,
(40:15):
wife did not know that.
Oh, that's what you're reallywanting me to do, and they've
been doing something else thatthey just know the right thing
to do.
So we know that can be a pointof contention for people.
It's easy going for us.
I do like receiving coffeebeans and I love if my children
or Lauren write or verbally giveme words of affirmation, but a
(40:43):
gift is significant.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
My wife and I, some of our biggest fights have been
over gifts, so everything you'resaying is landing with me right
now.
We've worked through somepretty big disappointments and
conflicts just over gift givingand expectations.
And I'm glad to say that wehave worked through most of that
at this point.
All those people out there whoare not married, who are
(41:09):
listening right now, maybe noteven sure they believe in the
institution of marriage anymorebecause that's very trendy these
days Make your best elevatorpitch for why married life is
the good life.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
I think if you choose well and commit hard and
educate where you're lacking,marriage is a wonderful life.
We tell each other all the timewe're not perfect, but it's
like I'll say you're not perfect, but you're perfect for me.
We just have such a stress-free.
(41:46):
Generally speaking, we have aneasy, keeled life together and
just our day-to to day is sogood.
But we've made We've made thechoices to be in this place.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Companionship, sharing life.
I love that.
Lauren likes to share life, andI think other other people
should think about that too.
Who can they share?
And I think other people shouldthink about that too.
Who can they share?
If you say I'm going to on acruise, or if you say I'm going
to make a trip to a big place,you're wanting to share that
experience.
Having a singular experience isjust totally different.
(42:26):
When you can have a sharedexperience, it's going to make
so much more fulfillment.
So I mean, even our walk withJesus is so important that we're
sharing that together.
If she's excited aboutsomething in the scripture,
she's coming telling me and thevice versa, and then we're
sharing that, um, thatexperience with each other.
So it it flows over into everyarea of life.
(42:48):
That's the way I look at ityour companionship.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
I was telling.
I always tell my wife Tracy, abad day with you is still a
really good day.
That's a great quote.
Just because I'm in that daywith you.
That's what I do all the time.
Well, Lauren and Owen Mitchellhave been each other's valentine
for almost 30 years.
They've been coaching andtraining other couples for
(43:11):
almost that long and they may becoming soon to a church near
you to host one of theirReconnect Weekend Marriage
Seminars.
We'll put a link in the shownotes so you can find them and
go see them and take advantageof their resources for the
benefit of your own marriage.
Lauren, Owen, happy Valentine'sDay.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Thank you, god bless you.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Thank you.
It was a pleasure having you.
We hope that something youheard in this episode encouraged
, enlightened or enriched you insome way.
If it did, thank God and pleasepay it forward.
Subscribe to this podcast andshare it with a friend.
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Your subscription,recommendation and review help
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Please send your comments,ideas and suggestions to podcast
(43:55):
at christianchronicleorg anddon't forget our ministry to
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So if you like the show and youwant to keep it going and make
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Christian Chronicle atchristianchronicleorg Until next
(44:15):
time may grace and peace beyours in abundance around the
world since 1943.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
The Christian Chronicles Managing Editor is
Audrey Jackson, editor-in-chiefBobby Ross Jr and President and
CEO Eric Trigestad.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted
and edited by BT Irwin and isproduced by James Flanagan in
Detroit, michigan, usa.
Welcome to the Christian Chronicle Podcast.
We are bringing you the storyshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
Here is our host, BT Irwin.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Family and friends, neighbors and, most of all,
strangers.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle Podcast.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
This one is coming to you likeCupid's arrow just before
Valentine's Day 2025.
So, my fellow husbands, if youforgot to order the flowers,
here is your last reminder.
In the spirit of Valentine'sDay, we thought it would be fun
(00:37):
and useful to focus this episodeon marriage.
If you're married, you'd liketo get married, or you're not
married, but you want to beaffirming and supportive of
those who are married, thisepisode is for you.
Our guests today have beendevoting their lives not only to
their own marriage, but themarriages of thousands of
Christians around the world.
For the last quarter century,lauren and Owen Mitchell have
(00:57):
been hosting Reconnect Weekendmarriage seminars at churches
all over the place, going backto when they first started
working with Marriage DynamicsInstitute in 1998.
They've been married for 28years, so the most important
lessons they've learned aboutmarriage they've learned by
being married for a long time.
Lauren and Owen are members ofOrange Avenue Church of Christ
in Eustis, florida.
(01:17):
Lauren Owen happy Valentine'sDay.
What are your Valentine's Dayplans this year?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Wow, that's an interesting question.
We're actually going to amemorial in Raleigh, north
Carolina, for a long-term churchmember and going to spend time
with my brother, my brother andsister-in-law and just be around
a bunch of people that wehaven't seen probably in 35
years.
(01:45):
So really maybe 1,500 people atthis memorial.
So actually really excited thatthat's going to be something
unique.
We fly to Raleigh on the 14thand fly back home to Orlando on
the 16th, and the rest of thattime we'll be with family
members and friends.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Okay, that sounds good.
We're actually driving toDisney World on Valentine's Day
this year.
Okay, that sounds good.
We're actually driving toDisney World on Valentine's Day
this year.
Okay, awesome, we'll be in theneighborhood.
So y'all travel all over theworld to host marriage retreats
for Christians.
I count that you're hosting 18retreats in 2025 in 11 states
and provinces, so you meethundreds of Christians every
(02:25):
year who come to you becausethey want help with their
marriages.
From all of these encounters,what do you observe about the
state of marriage amongChristians these days?
What's changed, if anything,since you started doing these
retreats, and what are some ofthe most common concerns or
questions that are coming to youthese days?
Speaker 4 (02:51):
We do marriage enrichment, so we tend to
interact with people who are onthe happy side of marriage.
But I would say that we do seethings that come up on a regular
basis.
A lot of it is people are toobusy and they lose sight of each
other, and people will onlytake neglect for just so long.
So when you become unhappy,that tends to override
(03:14):
commitment.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I think one of the things I've seen, especially
since COVID, is that people aremore willing to come to an event
now.
You know they're a while theywere shut up so long, so now
it's actually easier for us nowto get churches to say yes,
where it was a little bitdifficult in the inception.
We've been doing ReconnectWeekend now for 11 years and
(03:38):
probably averaged around 12events a year.
So we have 18 different typesof events this year, but we
already have scheduled for 2026,maybe four or five things that
we know are already going tohappen.
So getting churches to allow usto come in to me is a big
(03:58):
difference.
That now people are interested.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Can you tell us the story of how you met and got
married?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
that now people are interested.
Can you tell us the story ofhow you met and got married?
First of all, I was married thefirst time for 17 years.
I did get married my junioryear at Freed Hardeman College
and was married for 17 years.
My wife got cancer and afterfive months of treatment she
passed away.
So sometimes I like answeringthe question what's the nicest
thing that Lauren has ever donefor me?
(04:27):
So at the time that I, after mywife passed away, I was not only
looking for a companion, but Iwas also looking at someone that
could be a mother to my twochildren.
I had two smaller children atthe time and Lauren's sister had
been a very good friend of myfirst wife and we were at school
(04:48):
together and she introduced meto Lauren and part of that
equation was our kids hit it offwith her right away.
We started dating, she startedhelping them with their homework
, she started doing things withthem and we got married 13
months after my first wifepassed away.
(05:09):
And on the day that we gotmarried, our children, on their
own, decided to call her mom.
We've never functioned as asecond family.
We've always functioned in thatway that they refer to her as
mom.
We honor the first relationship, but she has her part of the
story too, so I kind of let hergo with that.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Well, I was also married before and it's kind of
strange that we were bothmarried for 17 years before.
We never had children and myhusband chose to leave for
someone else.
And at the point where Owen metme, I say I was 37, and I was
(05:53):
divorced and I had no childrenand he just told you he was
looking for somebody to be awife and a mother.
So he had no reason to think Icould do either one and he
married me anyway.
So we were in our late 30s whenwe married.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
What kind of difference do you think that
made?
Obviously, you came into thiswith some challenges that
younger couples don't have whenthey get married.
Oh, and you already had twodaughters, right?
Is that correct?
Son and a daughter Two yearsapart, yeah, two years apart.
Yeah, two years apart, you'dlost your wife Lauren.
(06:31):
Your husband left.
So talk about how you you knowsome of the unique challenges
that you overcame early on inyour relationship.
And then, what kind ofdifference do you think it's
made to your marriage that youdid meet and marry later?
Speaker 4 (06:49):
I would say one thing for me, because we were coming
from completely differentperspectives.
It was a second marriage forboth of us, but I had trust
issues and he didn't.
He was used to being a parentand I wasn't.
There was a lot of a biglearning curve for me that I had
(07:12):
to learn to take him for who hewas and not what my baggage was
, and I had always wantedchildren.
So when I was able to be amother and I adopted them after
we had been married for aboutsix months, I just I'm not sure
(07:34):
how to explain it.
It was just there was no waythat it wasn't going to work.
It was just that perspectivecoming in.
This was it, and we were justgoing to do whatever it took.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
We had to blend three sides of the family and that
was, I say, a challenge but alsosomething that we really
aspired that we were going tomake work.
So I had two mother-in-laws andcontinued to care for my first
wife's mother-in-law and nurturethat relationship.
She's passed away now, butthere, toward the end, she was
(08:12):
introducing me as her son andshe was introducing Lauren as
her daughter-in-law.
So we had really won that partof the relationship over with
and our kids like Lauren betterthan they like me.
So yeah it really worked out ina good way, kind of our teamwork
(08:35):
.
We've been in the same housetoo.
We stayed in the same housethat I was with my first wife,
so now we've been in the house35 years, two miles from church,
five miles from where the kidswent to school.
So we gave them a stablerelationship.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
They're doing fantastic now, so we thought
they had had enough loss andthey didn't need to lose their
home and church, family andeverything that they knew.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So we just stayed where they had been their home
and church, family andeverything that they knew.
So we just stayed where theyhad been and you started
teaching a class on marriage atyour church in 1998, I think.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
So that was not long after y'all got married.
Is that right?
Less than two years?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Yeah, part of that story is that we really wanted
to try to do things together inministry and we went to a
conference where a guy got upand talked about hey, you can
learn to be quote a facilitator.
We never even heard the termbefore and said, hey, that's
something we might could dotogether.
So we went to a three day 15hour weekend to learn how to
(09:40):
facilitate classes, came back toour own church, had a great
first class said we wanted to doit again.
Now I think we've led that sameclass 23 times over the time
that we started doing it, whichled us again to start doing the
shorter weekends calledReconnect Weekend.
(10:02):
That was kind of the extensionof that.
Now we've been doing theReconnect Weekend 11 years but
we also do facilitator training.
So we train other couples howto do that same class that we
originally learned how to doback in 1998, which is a big
part of our marriage that welearned quote the skill set.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
I learned how to be a wife in the dynamic marriage
class, which was a keyfoundation for us learning all
of those things very early on,and then that set the trajectory
not only for our success, butfor what we've ended up doing.
So we still work with theMarriage Dynamics Ministry after
(10:48):
all these years.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
This is your second marriage.
For each one of you, thestatistics are fairly well known
.
In the United States, 50% offirst marriages end in divorce,
but actually it's much higherfor second marriages.
So 60 to 70% of secondmarriages end in divorce, which
is something a lot of peopledon't know.
You're both on your secondmarriage.
(11:09):
Obviously, you stay together.
Not only did you stay together,you started teaching classes on
marriage just a couple of yearsafter you got married.
What is it that has?
What's been your secret sauce?
What has kept you together inthis second marriage for each of
you?
Speaker 4 (11:24):
There's a whole list of things.
I think the second perspectiveum the second marriage
perspective, that was one umknowing that we had three
families depending on us wasanother um me coming in and not
wanting to fail, but then we gotresources and we followed
(11:49):
through and actually did what welearned to do and we've kept
doing what we learned to do.
So I think all of that factorsin.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yeah, I'll reinforce it, that the skill set and
language.
I think that you know languageis what couples need to learn,
like the words to use, thethings to go to.
We learned that language andskill set in 1998 and then
actually had to keep doing itRight.
Once you're doing something andyou're talking to others about
(12:21):
it and then you redo it again,it kind of continues to say, ok,
I know that's what is importantto you and we learn some of
that skill, and then it justbecame like part of our DNA to
use those words and just couplescoming back to you and
(12:49):
reinforcing to hey, we starteddoing what you said and we
started doing what we learnedand seeing their marriages
thrive.
I know you talked aboutpercentages and this may be a
little off.
The question Divorce issomewhere between 35 and 50
percent, but we try tocategorize where couples are in
a certain way.
To categorize where couples arein a certain way 25% great
marriages, 40% average marriages, 35% failing marriages.
(13:15):
It kind of gives a category.
So our goal is always trying toget couples to think where are
you or where are you heading inthat continuum and you have a
way to move from a failingmarriage to a average or good
marriage by doing certain things.
I love that someone says I'mcommitted, but you wouldn't want
to talk to someone that hadbeen married for 60 years and
(13:37):
say hey, how'd you do it andthey say, well, it's been a
horrible grind, but we made itright, we didn't divorce, we
didn't divorce, we didn'tdivorce.
You know, I'd rather say, hey,I've had a joyful or happy 60
years by doing things that wouldget quote a better result.
By changing some habits, smallthings right, that would get.
(13:58):
So we learn those things and alot of times if people just make
adjustments, they can move evenin that average phase to the
higher average of it and not beresigned but move toward better
things.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I don't want to get too far along without asking you
about the Reconnect weekendsthat, like you said, you've got
what?
18 this year in 2025.
So for people listening whohaven't been to one of your
retreats, talk about whathappens at a Reconnect weekend
and some of the things that youteach.
Just give them a littleappetizer of the kind of things
(14:35):
that you teach that helpmarriages move from failing to
average or average to good.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Okay, in a nutshell, we focus on intimacy.
Okay, in a nutshell, we focuson intimacy spiritual, emotional
(15:00):
and physical and we look atways that people can change
their daily habits ofinteraction together and you can
get big results and you startmoving towards the positive and
you work together.
That's where we just encouragecouples.
We the weekend is interactiveum, it's a bit fast paced as far
as moving from point to pointand activity to activity.
(15:23):
We get feedback that it'sinteresting and it's fun and
it's substantive, without beingoverwhelming.
And we've worked really hard tomake it non-judgmental, so even
the husbands like to come.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
She's making some great points.
We've kept our talks.
We realize people are sometimesinformationed out.
You know they hear a 45-minutesermon or then you go to a
seminar and it's just talkingall day long.
So we've kept our talks between15 and 18 minutes.
We both speak.
We've kept them shorter butthen we'll have some type of
(16:04):
activity, whether we watch avideo, ask a question to the
group.
We put two couples per table sothere's a little bit of
interaction between that coupleat each couple at the table.
Small, easy questions.
We even do people where we havepeople raise hands and answer
questions.
During our seminar, Even inlarger groups, we figured out
ways to take short answers, makeit work.
(16:27):
But it really flows wherepeople come up and say, hey,
we've been here two and a halfhours but it only feels like 30
minutes because we kept itinteresting Back to that kind to
look at.
So small things get big resultsis one of our kind of key
(16:56):
phrases.
We're all in the same boat.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Could you give us one example, because we want people
to come to the Reconnectweekends.
One example because we wantpeople to come to the Reconnect
weekends, but just as a littlecommercial here for those
weekends.
Can you give us one example ofone small thing?
You teach that you've seen bigresults in your own marriage and
in the marriages of people thathave come to the retreats.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
I would say let's just talk about the subject
affection.
We try to get people toidentify all seminar long things
that they're wanting to receive, because typically we go the
opposite way.
I'll start doing things forLauren, but it may not be
exactly what she wants me to do.
(17:38):
But if I ask her what are themost important things and she
says in the area of affection,I'd like for you to do ABC and I
follow up on those things, evenif I screw up a lot of other
things, because I'm doing thethings that are most important
to her.
(17:59):
It could be as simple as when Icome home, she's there at the
back door and she's greeting mewith open arms and our first
interaction when I get home.
Hey, it sets the tone for therest of the evening right.
Or it may be something assimple as the way she fixes my
food.
I give her a specific.
You know like this is importantto me if you have this and it's
(18:22):
just a matter of communicatingabout those things.
But after we do some of thoseactivities and we have couples
actually talk about thosebecause we make them talk about
them with each other, they'llcome up and say I didn't even
know that was important to them.
But now that I do, it's goingto be easy for me to follow
through on it.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
A couple of things we say if it's a priority for your
spouse, it's an opportunity foryou, and the perspective is
always you have to do this forme if you want me to love you
back.
That's the wrong perspective,because I can't do anything
about him.
I can only do something aboutme.
So my perspective has to bebecause I love him.
(19:00):
These are ways that I want toshow you how I feel, so the
responsibility is always on mefor my feelings and my actions.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I know that the difference between being in a
relationship when I was 29 andbeing in a relationship when I'm
49 is that I assumed I'dprobably watched too many
rom-coms when I was 29.
So I assumed that somebodywould read my mind and that I
would read their mind and justknow.
So, being in a marriage a longtime and learning I need to ask
(19:32):
questions and listen.
I'm not going to be able toread her mind.
That's been really important tome.
So have you noticed anydifference in you know, 11 years
you've been doing theseretreats and you've met, gosh,
probably thousands of Christiansnow that are, you say, in
probably pretty good marriages.
It's a marriage enrichmentexperience.
(19:53):
But have you noticed anychanges in the kinds of people
that are coming to the retreats,the kinds of questions and
concerns they raise with you orthe reasons that they're coming
to spend a weekend with you?
Speaker 4 (20:08):
I think sometimes people give an expected answer
we want to improve our marriageor we want to be the best for
each other, those kinds ofthings.
But I think what we keep seeingand hearing is people are way
too busy and they aren't payingattention.
(20:28):
You know, when you date, it'severything so focused on the
prize at hand.
And then people get married andthey tend to relax, and
sometimes they relax too much,and you can tell there are so
many things pulling at ourattention now and people forget
(20:49):
to pay attention to their spouseand neglect sets in.
And that's what I think we see.
A lot of people have stoppedconnecting emotionally, which
means they stop connectingphysically and they get in
trouble.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
We're so driven by our commercials, we're so driven
by the me generation and I'mnot saying these are obvious
things that anybody that talksabout marriage is going to say.
So it's not any phenomenalinformation.
But people allow themselves togo into big debt.
There's credit card debt, ifyou read any statistics.
They're allowing their phone tobe so much a part of their life
(21:30):
.
They're allowing their phone tobe so much a part of their life
we one of our phrases that weuse in our weekend is your
device can be divisive.
We start out our seminar, I turnaround and I completely ask
everybody to take their phoneeither out of their hand or off
their table and put it in aplace where they don't touch it.
It's very for people.
I make them mad right off thebat and I have people come up
(21:53):
and say hey, I realize that I'mlistening better.
I'm not, you know, because myphone is out of view and you
have to remind them.
On day two, same thing, becausepeople are so connected to that
thing and I like to say me too.
You know, non-judgment.
I've got to work on that withLauren.
I mean, I have to find waysthey put that aside and focus on
(22:15):
being an active listener.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
It's a huge distraction Yep, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, we, it's funny.
We Tracy, my wife and I.
We've been out to eat somewherebefore, or just out and about,
and we'll see, we'll, she'll.
She'll spot a couple at a tableand they're both on their
phones and she'll point them outto me.
Almost every time She'll saythat couple over there they
haven't looked at each other orspoken to each other the entire
(22:41):
time they've been sittingtogether.
Please don't ever let us becomelike that couple.
And uh, I'm proud to say I've,I've, learned my phone isn't
even out when we're, when we'retogether, it's always somewhere
else.
So that's something I've workedon very hard.
I want to let's get down tosome nitty gritty questions I
think our audience willappreciate.
Starting with this one, whatwould you say are the top three
(23:03):
marriage killers that you'veencountered these days?
And, on the other side of thecoin, what habits might
counteract those marriagekillers On the other?
Speaker 4 (23:11):
side of the coin, what habits might counteract
those marriage killers?
Well, we talked about beingselfish, which means you stop
focusing on the other personWe've talked about everybody has
negative habits, and when werelax and stop paying attention,
the balance can get out ofwhack.
When the negative habits build.
(23:31):
Balance can get out of whackwhen the negative habits build
and because feelings respond toactions, you have negative
feelings on the part of theother spouse, and so then
unhappiness sets in and it'sjust this downward spiral.
So habits that are negative,that are not addressed, are a
(23:51):
big thing, and then thatactually could go back to
selfishness too, because if itwasn't, if it wasn't working for
me, I'd probably change it,right, but if it's working for
me and I don't care if it reallyaffects you, then I'm just
going to keep doing it.
So I think there's a lot ofthat.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I'm just going to keep doing it.
So I think there's a lot ofthat Daily communication.
We're really big on trying toget people to think about what
time they spend with theirspouse and active listening
while we're dating.
I think the average says 15hours a week.
When we're dating somebody,that, hey, we're so in tune with
what they want.
We're looking our best,smelling our.
We're so in tune with what theywant.
We're looking our best,smelling our best, and then that
(24:33):
goes to average.
I'm just quoting 15 minutes aweek.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
A meaningful conversation.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Oh, my goodness, Shocking.
We like to say the importantthing for our relationship and
that we refer people to isscheduling a time daily, trying
to find a.
You know, we're at differentpoints in life.
People have children, they'reempty nest or wherever they are,
but sitting down and even 30minutes.
If I give Lauren 15 to 30minutes and I just say, lauren,
(25:06):
tell me how your day was, Idon't have my device, I'm just
totally listening to what shesays and not even trying to
solve anything, just being anactive listener, and then I take
my turn and we go back andforth.
Just that small benefit.
You don't have to do it 15hours, yes, fear somebody, but
if you're consistentlycommunicating and I would say to
(25:29):
you know, communicating and Iwould say too, you know problems
is just people unmetexpectations.
I think if couples would justcommunicate their expectations
in a better way to each otherand even try to find ways to
compromise what thoseexpectations might be, yeah, um,
we always say the price of thewedding has nothing to do with
(25:51):
the success of the relationship.
You know, people have thisgreat day, they spend a lot of
money, but then they don't goand get marriage education.
Marriage education is going tocarry people over so much to
have a much happier relationshipif they would take time to
learn you know what their spouseis actually wanting them to do.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Well, everybody thinks they know what they're
doing when they get married.
Right, we all think we know,and then, after we're married
for a little while, we quicklyfigure out.
We don't know nearly as much aswe thought, but the people that
take advantage of opportunitiesto learn and do better, they're
the ones that are going to dobetter, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
It is very hard, and I I I have gone through periods
of time where I felt like I feltlike there must be something
wrong with me because it shouldbe easier than this, right Like
I should just know what to do.
But it really taxes my brainsometimes to figure out how to,
um, how to really listen to mywife and how to respond, or how
(26:54):
to, uh, how to meet her needsand um, so it's, it's been a,
it's been a really good.
I say to her all the time uh,she's one of the best things
that's ever happened to me easy,because I've had to grow so
much just by being in arelationship with her, so she
really is a godsend.
I want to ask you on that point, though.
We've been married about 17years, my wife and I Many of my
(27:17):
friends got married long beforewe did so.
They're hitting the 25-year markor longer, and a lot of us have
shared an experience at somepoint in our marriages where we
just kind of went into a rut andwe kind of fell out of love
with our mates.
And I don't mean we stoppedloving our mates, it just kind
of got boring.
Maybe a little resentment setin, so we didn't feel the same
(27:39):
way.
I've come back from this myself.
I have friends who came backfrom this, but I have friends
who also have gone throughdivorce because of it.
What would you say to someonewho's listening right now and
they are just feeling really notattracted or excited or even
loving toward their spouse?
What can they do about that?
Speaker 4 (27:58):
I think the first thing I would say is we
encourage people to beintentional and sometimes we
forget that commitment means thelong haul.
So I think people have tointentionally choose to focus on
the positive and change theirmindset.
We tend to focus more on thenegative when we become unhappy
(28:22):
and that just adds to more ofthe downward spiral.
But if people would changetheir mindset, if you think
about it, scripture doesn't tellus to change our feelings.
It has a lot to say aboutdirecting our thoughts.
When we direct our thoughts inthe right way, our feelings and
then our actions will follow.
We can actually talk ourselvesinto and out of things based on
(28:44):
how we feel.
And if we take control of howwe feel by directing our
thoughts, then we can actuallyimprove things even when we
don't feel like it Becauseeventually, when you do the
right thing long enough, youwill feel like it and then get
help.
If you need help, get help.
Many people think, well, we'renot that bad, or I know a lot of
(29:10):
people in worse, or we can'tlet people know there's a lot of
things that would stop peoplefrom getting help, but there's
just resources.
Help doesn't mean that you'redivorcing.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
It means you'd like to learn how to do it just a
little bit better, right?
I think we like to use the termwhat are things that can
connect you in the relationship?
A term that we use isrecreational companionship.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Having fun together.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
We've had pretty good success in finding things and
you know, this is not even tobrag, it's just.
I think all couples have got tofind things.
We started taking our kidsearly on to national parks, back
when they were in middle school, early high school.
We just take them out of schoolone week in the fall, one week
(30:01):
in the spring, take them out ofschool during shoulder season,
go to national parks, and wejust learned this system of what
we could connect on.
Then we follow that up withchurch.
We're involved in a Bible studythat requires homework each week
and Lauren and I both do, andthat connects us.
We do things as a family of ourgrandkids over on Friday night
(30:24):
and we have things that we doeach week that connect us not
only with each other but withfamily members, of course,
pickleball.
We do that together.
We've been starting findingways we could go back and binge
watch some type of show that wasaired 20 years ago, right, and
we can watch, you know, three tofour episodes per week.
(30:45):
But what that does, it gives ustalking points.
We talk about it before we doit, we talk about it kind of
while it's going on and then wetalk about, hey, what happened
after is over with.
So it's kind of a flow, if youwould, of connecting and couples
have to find ways to connect.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
Find ways to prime the pump for conversation if
that's a difficult thing ifthat's a difficult thing.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I, my wife and I got in kind of a rut and we would
our evenings.
We we ended up spending themapart from each other.
She would be watching Hallmarkand I would be off in another
room working on something, andthen, I think it was when the
pandemic came along andeverything kind of shut down, we
(31:31):
had gotten the down Abbey boxedset for Christmas.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
And so we started watching Downton Abbey and that
became like a date every night,every night, after Daniel was in
bed, popped a big bowl ofpopcorn and we, you know, we'd
watch an episode or two ofDownton Abbey and we couldn't
wait for the next night.
And that that, like,rejuvenated our relationship,
(31:56):
because now we were talkingabout Downton Abbey all the time
and what's going to happen, andevery day there was this
anticipation of you know, it'sdate night tonight again.
You know, and uh, from DowntonAbbey we just moved on to other
we we started watching reallygood TV, uh in the evening, and
that that opened up a lot ofother um time yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
We got to get you to do a video clip and we'll we'll
play it at our reconnect weekendand say, look what this guy did
.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yeah, it was it was pretty awesome.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
Well.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Abby the mayor of.
Easttown.
And then we you know youmentioned pickleball.
We started playing pickleball,so we have a tonight's
pickleball night for us, so wehave at least one pickleball
date every week.
That's great, so it's beenawesome.
Well, I have a few lightninground questions here.
I want to ask you, if you don'tmind I don't know if we should
(32:48):
call these Cupid's arrow set alightning round in honor of
Valentine's Day.
We heard how you first met.
Can you tell us about yourfirst date?
Speaker 4 (32:56):
It was so creative dinner and a movie.
Except we actually never leftthe restaurant, we just sat and
talked all night long.
We talked for hours.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
What was the movie you were going to see?
Do you remember?
Speaker 4 (33:08):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
It could have been Mr Holland's opus.
Ok, I remember that.
I think we eventually saw that,maybe on the second day, so it
could have been that that's along time ago.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I feel like it would have been a little bit
terrifying for each one of you,for reasons you've already
touched on.
Owen, you lost your first wifeto cancer, and that happened
very quickly.
Owen, you lost your first wifeto cancer, and that happened
very quickly.
And Lauren, your husband, leftyou and so you admitted you had
trust issues.
So when you started to court todate each other, was there ever
(33:43):
a point where you got scared oryou had second thoughts about
things and almost broke up anddidn't go through with it?
Speaker 3 (33:53):
So no, but this did happen.
I told Laura and I said hey, Ithink we should just maybe not
see each other for a littlewhile, and I think we went
around a week.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
That was early on.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Early on and stopped kind of like seeing each other.
But what happened?
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Nothing it got our attention that we were more
connected already than werealized.
We probably only been datingmaybe a month and thought maybe
we were moving a little too fast.
But we we figured it out prettyquickly.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
We missed each other yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Did you say how long you dated before you got married
?
I don't remember.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
So probably nine months.
So started maybe in February,got married in December.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Early December.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
So then this next question is about your wedding.
What's one thing about yourwedding?
You're really glad you did.
And what's one thing about yourwedding?
Maybe you would have donedifferently in hindsight?
Speaker 4 (34:53):
Oh, this is so easy for me.
Okay, one thing that I likethat we really did.
My dad performed our ceremony.
He's done the ceremony for allof my siblings when they married
.
So he did our ceremony andthere was one point during the
ceremony that everyone in ourfamilies stood up and we had
(35:14):
people there from all threesides and families stood up and
took a pledge that they wouldsupport us in our marriage and I
loved that.
What I would do differently isI would pay attention to the
clock and I would prepare betterand actually show up on time to
my own wedding.
I would redo that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Interesting.
How late were you?
Speaker 4 (35:37):
I don't know.
They had run out of the tapedmusic and had started it over,
so I don't know how late I, justI was late.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
So, owen, were you getting a little nervous, so it
went well.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
I'm just going to say it went well.
My positive is that we had anice budget.
I say nice, a low budget.
We had a low budget and westuck with it and still had a
great wedding.
I call it a minimalistic budget.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
And yeah, a lot of good memories for sure.
The kids were the ones whostood up with us.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
That's good.
So y'all live very interestinglives national parks, pickleball
, traveling all over doingmarriage retreats.
So it's hard at this pointknowing you as I do after 50
minutes to imagine that you everwent through a boring or you
know, meh stretch of yourmarriage.
Did you ever go through astretch where it was kind of
(36:32):
like meh and how did you getinto it?
And then how did you get outagain?
Speaker 3 (36:37):
I'll say that we haven't had a bad stretch.
I would say our challengingstretch was the second secular
job I had while we were married.
I had it for 14 years and thatcompany sold some of the assets
and I retired early, between age60 and 61.
(36:58):
And that's kind of a twofold.
I didn't actually retire.
We started doing full-timemarriage weekends.
So we increased our marriageweekends from 8 to 10 up to 12
to 18 per year and I did notdraw my retirement.
I'm 67 now.
I've decided not to draw myretirement until 70.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
But when I was home all the time, those first three
to six months of being home,lauren said I didn't think
either one of us were ready forhim to be home all the time, so
I encouraged him to find a hobby.
He did it was pickleball.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
So we figured it out that I could.
I became an instructor and nowour daily rhythms we just know
what the other one's doing,where we're going, and, like
it's just no stress, we have thekind of least stressful
relationship.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
We have almost no drama.
We learn our rhythm right.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
So that that little, that little stretch of me being
home a lot we had to deal withthat.
I think other couples gothrough that at retirement.
You know, just all of a suddenwe're around each other 24 seven
.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, you found your groove.
And I need to ask one realquick question about the pickle.
Yeah, you, you found yourgroove.
And I need to ask one realquick question about the
pickleball.
Uh, oh, and you played tennisin college at Freed Hardman.
Did you continue to play tennis, uh, through life, or had you
given that up and and then?
Pickleball was a way to kind ofrevive your oh that's a good
question.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Yeah, I had stopped playing tennis.
I played competitively,probably into my late 30s, early
40s and kind of had a stretchof golf that I really was doing
a lot and then went from golf topickleball.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah, and you were quite good.
This is not a pickleballinterview, but you've won some
big championships.
We'll put a link in the shownotes so everybody can learn
about your pickleball career.
Is there a Valentine's Day thatwill forever live in your
memory as the best Valentine'sDay ever?
Speaker 4 (39:05):
You know we are kind of unusual, I think we don't
emphasize special days.
To be honest, we don't reallydo gifts either, which takes off
a lot of pressure.
We just we travel, that's whatwe do, and we don't try to work
it around specific days, evensomething that whenever, like if
(39:29):
we're about to take a trip,that's just a personal trip, oh,
and we'll tell me okay, this iswhat we're doing, and then
he'll say happy birthday, happyEaster and happy Mother's Day,
whatever the next three or fourthings coming up.
So it doesn't matter what we'redoing or what time of year it
is, whatever the next two orthree special days are.
That's my gift.
(39:50):
So, it works well for us.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
So, yeah, she made a great point.
That works well for us.
That's not condemning to othercouples that want to plan
special things.
I think back to learning yourcouples.
Part of our weekend is that weactually get couples to fill out
what are their expectations ofspecial days and a lot of times
we get unique answers that theother the spouse, the husband,
(40:15):
wife did not know that.
Oh, that's what you're reallywanting me to do, and they've
been doing something else thatthey just know the right thing
to do.
So we know that can be a pointof contention for people.
It's easy going for us.
I do like receiving coffeebeans and I love if my children
or Lauren write or verbally giveme words of affirmation, but a
(40:43):
gift is significant.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
My wife and I, some of our biggest fights have been
over gifts, so everything you'resaying is landing with me right
now.
We've worked through somepretty big disappointments and
conflicts just over gift givingand expectations.
And I'm glad to say that wehave worked through most of that
at this point.
All those people out there whoare not married, who are
(41:09):
listening right now, maybe noteven sure they believe in the
institution of marriage anymorebecause that's very trendy these
days Make your best elevatorpitch for why married life is
the good life.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
I think if you choose well and commit hard and
educate where you're lacking,marriage is a wonderful life.
We tell each other all the timewe're not perfect, but it's
like I'll say you're not perfect, but you're perfect for me.
We just have such a stress-free.
(41:46):
Generally speaking, we have aneasy, keeled life together and
just our day-to to day is sogood.
But we've made We've made thechoices to be in this place.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Companionship, sharing life.
I love that.
Lauren likes to share life, andI think other other people
should think about that too.
Who can they share?
And I think other people shouldthink about that too.
Who can they share?
If you say I'm going to on acruise, or if you say I'm going
to make a trip to a big place,you're wanting to share that
experience.
Having a singular experience isjust totally different.
(42:26):
When you can have a sharedexperience, it's going to make
so much more fulfillment.
So I mean, even our walk withJesus is so important that we're
sharing that together.
If she's excited aboutsomething in the scripture,
she's coming telling me and thevice versa, and then we're
sharing that, um, thatexperience with each other.
So it it flows over into everyarea of life.
(42:48):
That's the way I look at ityour companionship.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
I was telling.
I always tell my wife Tracy, abad day with you is still a
really good day.
That's a great quote.
Just because I'm in that daywith you.
That's what I do all the time.
Well, Lauren and Owen Mitchellhave been each other's valentine
for almost 30 years.
They've been coaching andtraining other couples for
(43:11):
almost that long and they may becoming soon to a church near
you to host one of theirReconnect Weekend Marriage
Seminars.
We'll put a link in the shownotes so you can find them and
go see them and take advantageof their resources for the
benefit of your own marriage.
Lauren, Owen, happy Valentine'sDay.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Thank you, god bless you.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Thank you.
It was a pleasure having you.
We hope that something youheard in this episode encouraged
, enlightened or enriched you insome way.
If it did, thank God and pleasepay it forward.
Subscribe to this podcast andshare it with a friend.
Recommend and review itwherever you listen to your
favorite podcasts.
Your subscription,recommendation and review help
us reach more people.
Please send your comments,ideas and suggestions to podcast
(43:55):
at christianchronicleorg anddon't forget our ministry to
inform and inspire Christiansand congregations around the
world is a nonprofit ministrythat relies on your generosity.
So if you like the show and youwant to keep it going and make
it better, please make atax-deductible gift to the
Christian Chronicle atchristianchronicleorg Until next
(44:15):
time may grace and peace beyours in abundance around the
world since 1943.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
The Christian Chronicles Managing Editor is
Audrey Jackson, editor-in-chiefBobby Ross Jr and President and
CEO Eric Trigestad.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted
and edited by BT Irwin and isproduced by James Flanagan in
Detroit, michigan, usa.
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