The clips at the top of this episode are from (in order) the preaching of Andrew Hairston and James Maxwell, two "giants" who worked for decades to build for the kingdom of God.
Andrew Hairston stood in the pulpit at Simpson Street Church of Christ in Atlanta, Georgia, for more than 50 years. Not only did he preach, he was a practicing attorney and judge and a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army Reserve. Hairston worked alongside Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., in his peaceful campaign for equal rights for all Americans. Hairston went to his rest on January 14, 2025, at the age of 92.
James Maxwell was a preacher's preacher and professor's professor, who served for half a century in the administration and faculty at Southwestern Christian College, the only HBCU with roots and ties in the Church of Christ. While leading and teaching at Southwestern Christian, Maxwell stood in the pulpit every week in Church of Christ congregations in Kansas, Mississippi, Ohio and Texas. Maxwell also went to his rest on January 14, 2025, at the age of 86.
In this episode, their fellow minister and friend, Billy Curl (Crenshaw Church of Christ, Los Angeles, California) talks about why every Christian needs to know Hairston and Maxwell because their work contributed to building the Christian community and culture in which we live and minister today.
Link to Christian Chronicle coverage of Andrew Hairston's life, work and celebration of life
Link to Christian Chronicle coverage of James Maxwell's life, work and celebration of life
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Episode Transcript
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Andrew Hairston / James Maxwe (00:00):
I remember I used to work the
livestock farm and when they atedinner they let me go out in
the barn.
He never invited me into thehouse.
And I remember one day and I'mgonna close out this gentleman
(00:21):
had a Ed Hunter was a farmer andhe had a little girl about five
or six years old and we had atractor and a trailer that we
hauled on and I was sitting backin the tractor trailer and she
was just so crazy about Jasper.
She got back there with me andshe got so excited she hauled
(00:45):
off and kissed me.
He went crazy.
That's just how different theworld is on one side of the
track.
But you know what?
We have survived all of thatand still got our dignity.
That's all.
(01:07):
He dragged us over on the ship,put us on out in the field, put
our women in the house, kept usin the field, kept us ignorant.
We still survived.
Nothing shall separate us fromthe love of God, christ Jesus,
our Lord, and that's why, whenpeople talk about me in the
(01:31):
words of Mount Angelus, I risewhen people won't shake my hand.
Holly LInden (01:38):
I rise.
Andrew Hairston / James Ma (01:40):
When people treat me indifferently,
I rise.
When the money gets low I rise.
When the debts are high.
I rise when my friends leave meall alone.
I rise when things don't workout like I'd like them to.
(02:02):
I'll rise, I'll rise, I'll rise, I'll rise.
Holly LInden (02:09):
And when you rise, may God bless you.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle Podcast.
We are bringing you the storyshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
Here is our host, BT Irwin.
BT Irwin (02:25):
Family and friends, neighbors and, most of all,
strangers.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle podcast.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
17th century physicist andtheologian Isaac Newton said
that when we envision a greaterfuture and imagine its
possibilities, it is because weare standing on the shoulders of
(02:48):
giants, that is, people whocame before us to lay
foundations on which we canbuild better things.
And what could be a betterthing to build than to build for
the kingdom of God?
Today, we bring you two giantswho devoted a combined 178 years
to building for the kingdom ofGod, and they often did it in
(03:09):
the manner that Nehemiah'svolunteers rebuilt the walls of
Jerusalem, enduring greatstruggle along the way.
Andrew Hairston stood in thepulpit of the Simpson Street
Church of Christ in Atlanta,georgia, for over 50 years.
Not only was he a preacher, hewas a groundbreaking attorney
and judge, best known to theoutside world for his defense of
(03:30):
Dr Martin Luther King Jr andhis prosecution of pornographer
Larry Flint.
Brother Hairston was one of thefirst students to matriculate
at Southwestern ChristianCollege in Terrell, texas, the
only HBCU with deep roots andstrong ties in the Church of
Christ.
Brother Hairston continued tobe an active supporter of the
school and its students as longas he lived.
(03:51):
He went to his rest on January14, 2025, at the age of 92.
James Maxwell was a fellowSouthwestern Christian alumnus
who also went on to serve on theschool's administration for
half a century.
Known to his students as agreat teacher of the Bible and a
mentor, brother Maxwell addedfull-time congregational
(04:12):
ministry to his work atSouthwestern Christian.
Over his long life he servedChurch of Christ congregations
in Kansas, mississippi, ohio andTexas.
Brother Maxwell also went tohis rest on January 14 at the
age of 86.
You'll find links to completeobituaries and tributes to both
Andrew Hairston and JamesMaxwell in the show notes here.
(04:34):
To talk about Brothers Hairstonand Maxwell is Brother Billy
Curl.
Brother Curl is a fellowalumnus with Brothers Hairston
and Maxwell of SouthwesternChristian College.
Like Brothers Hairston andMaxwell of Southwestern
Christian College, like BrothersHairston and Maxwell, he served
as a congregational ministerfor many, many years.
That includes more than 40years with the Crenshaw Church
of Christ in Los Angeles,california, where he continues
(04:56):
to serve as an elder today.
His work on behalf of our Lordhas taken him to congregations,
ministries and organizationsaround the world, including the
Christian Chronicle, where heserved on the board of trustees
for several years.
Brother Curl, thank you formaking time to talk to us today
about two men who were importantto you and important to the
church wherever it may be found.
Billy Curl (05:17):
Thank you, it's good to be here.
BT Irwin (05:20):
Before we get into it.
You're there in Los Angeles andyou and your neighbors have
suffered an unimaginabledisaster and unimaginable loss
over the last few weeks.
How are things for you and yourcongregation, and what can you
tell us about how the aftermathof the wildfires is affecting
folks out there?
Billy Curl (05:38):
This was a major disaster for Southern California
and the Los Angeles area.
We didn't expect to havethousands of homes destroyed
from the Pacific Palisades toAltadena, pasadena area, which
(05:58):
is north of us where we live inthe Crenshaw area of Los Angeles
.
The Altadena, the Pasadenafires are east of us, northeast
of us and it just is reallyapocalyptic.
(06:19):
It's just absolutely amazinghow those balls of fire that
were carried by 100 mile an hourwinds they just landed on top
of homes.
They destroyed home after homeafter home, 5,000 homes.
And in addition to the disaster, it didn't bother our community
(06:44):
as well, the disaster, itdidn't bother our community as
well.
We're living near the LosAngeles International Airport
and we're closer to the ocean,and in this area, from Santa
Monica to Long Beach, it didn'tbother us that much, except the
debris from the winds did comein our direction, but we didn't
(07:04):
have any fires.
The problems that we're facingcatastrophic.
We didn't have any problemswith our church, in many of our
members' homes, but we did havemembers who lived in Altadena.
We had people who lived inPasadena who actually lost their
homes.
We had a family that we had tomove into our home for a few
(07:26):
days.
Many of them, left their homesin a matter of minutes with
nothing but what they had ontheir backs and I wish I could
just tell story after storyafter story, but our incident
after incident.
But one family left their home,had a nice job, had money in
(07:50):
the bank and ran actually ranfrom the fire immediately.
Some money went to the bank andthe bank was gone.
BT Irwin (08:04):
Oh no.
Billy Curl (08:05):
So there was no place to go to get the money.
The bank was burned.
They had no ID, didn't have adriver's license, had nothing to
identify themselves, so we hadhundreds of people walking
around in shock.
I've seen this on televisionthat had been done by the movie
(08:26):
people how people walk around inshock.
This was actually real.
Some of our members at leastthree of our members who lost
their homes.
So we have started a project toreplace some of the living
standards we food and clothesand even money so that they
could buy the toiletries thatthey needed Transportation to
(08:49):
take them out of the area towhere they could buy things.
People from all across thecountry called us and other
churches that were not impactedby the fires are really reaching
out to help.
It's only a minuscule thing.
It's when you talk about150,000 people who are impacted
(09:13):
and we're only dealing with 50or 60 to a hundred people.
It tells you what's left over.
So it's a major catastrophe.
BT Irwin (09:24):
Well, thank you for sharing that with us.
We at the Christian Chroniclehave been covering this, and
I'll put some links in the shownotes, so if people want to help
out, they'll have a way torespond.
We're here today to talk abouttwo men that you knew well,
brothers Andrew Hairston andJames Maxwell.
As we said in the introduction,they went to their rest on
(09:47):
January 14, the same day of thisyear.
Hairs fall from our heads,sparrows fall to the ground.
Christians die every day, andevery one of them is precious to
God, but what about AndrewHairston and James Maxwell is
worth devoting so much energyand time to talking about their
lives?
Billy Curl (10:06):
I wish I had all day .
Andrew Hairston was a personalfriend of mine.
He was a little bit older thanI am and he was a man's man.
He loved the church.
He loved God.
He loved preaching, but heloved the church.
He loved God.
He loved preaching, but heloved preachers.
(10:27):
He loved helping folk.
His personality was so differentfrom Maxwell.
Maxwell was one who was aprofessor.
He loved to teach.
He was a church builder.
He was a church builder.
Maxwell traveled every weekendfrom Dallas to Kansas to preach
(10:49):
at a church.
Every Sunday he would get on anairplane and fly there.
Who really learned more aboutpreaching?
They learned more aboutspiritual growth.
They learned methodology.
(11:11):
They just really followed him,because he not only just taught
Scripture and Bible andprinciples, metro taught them
how to maneuver through thecultural maze that existed
within the country.
These two men were different.
(11:34):
Andrew was a guy who would neverteach you unless he went to the
school and learned it first.
When someone asked him aboutlaw, he went to law school and
became a lawyer before he wouldreally sit down and talk to you
about law.
He got involved in the civilrights movement from a legal
(11:56):
perspective and he did that, buthe went and became a part of
the system before he taughtpeople about what it really
meant to be involved in thecivil rights movement.
He was a guy who started how todeal with Bible schools so he
built one.
(12:17):
I remember.
I remember visiting his homeand he was at the door, opened
the door and walked away.
Instead of welcoming me in thehouse, he opened the door and
walked away.
Instead of welcoming me in thehouse, he opened the door and
turned and walked away.
So I just say I assume this isan invitation to follow you.
So I followed him and he hadhis dissertation or his book all
(12:42):
laid out on the floor.
It was the whole room was justparagraph after paragraph of
things that he was writing.
He was a family man.
He and I served on the board oftrustees of Southwestern
Christian College.
He was the chair of the boardand when they nominated him he
(13:06):
said I will not accept theposition as chair of the board
unless Billy Curl decides tobecome the vice chair.
And so we became Mutt Jeff andfor several years we served as
the chair and the vice chair ofSouthwest St Christian College.
(13:29):
That's when Jack Evans was thepresident and that's when I got
to know James Maxwell that well,a very quiet, studious,
friendly man who caredindividually about his students.
He was not a very wealthy mannot at all and he would use
(13:53):
sometimes his own money to helphis students when they were.
Some of those students came tothe school that were very poor.
They were struggling just toget through there because they
wanted to be one of his studentsand there were times when on
holidays they couldn't go home.
(14:14):
He would go into his pocket andpay for their way to go home
and come back.
He was that type of that typeof individual.
He would take students overtime to teach them, instead of
having just a classroom whereyou have an hour and a half of a
lecture.
He would take the hour and ahalf and then come by my house.
(14:37):
We got two more hours of studyand we're going to do it
together.
He was that type of a man Agreat preacher.
He was a very good preacher.
Not only that, maxwell was aguy who had plans.
He built the Senior CitizenCenter in Kansas and then when
(15:01):
we served together atSouthwestern, he never stood out
front, but you knew he was inthe room.
He never stood up and said I'mgoing to do this.
I'm going to do that.
They stood up and said BrotherMaxwell did this.
Brother Maxwell did that.
He never what's the phrase?
(15:22):
He never tooted his own horn,but somebody else did.
And of all the people when Iattended his funeral, all the
people who came to his funeralwere people who he had touched
their lives in so many ways.
Brother Andrew Harrisonbelieved in justice but in order
(15:48):
to do that he got inside thejustice system.
Maxwell would deal with thestudent.
Andrew Harrison would deal withthe president.
He would call the president ofthe college.
He would call the dean of thecollege.
Maxwell would call thepresident of the college.
He would call the dean of thecollege.
Maxwell would call the studentand the teacher.
He would talk to this teacher.
(16:10):
He would talk to the student.
Maxwell Andrew Harrison wouldgo directly to the top and he
was highly respected in Atlantaand he made you feel as if you
were his best friend.
And when I went to the funeral Ikind of felt a little perturbed
(16:32):
because I learned I thought Iwas his only friend until I got
to the funeral.
Until I got to the funeral andI saw 200 who said the same
thing.
And it's really amazing to getto know his family.
(16:53):
He was a very humble man.
He was sitting in your presenceand say very little, but the
moment he started talking youwould say, wow, I didn't know I
was in the presence of such agiant.
He was a hero.
He was one of the heroes of theBrotherhood that did not have a
(17:13):
national platform.
Maxwell was the same way workedright under the radar, even
though they were people ofcharacter prominence.
It was absolutely awesome.
Hope I didn't get too far intothat.
BT Irwin (17:34):
That's good.
That's good.
That's a good setup for thenext question, when you talk
about the two of them beingheroes that fell under the radar
, didn't have a nationalplatform and yet the way that
you've described them and theway that they were eulogized,
they had a major impact onpeople's lives and on the church
(17:58):
that maybe people didn'trealize they were having.
So what does the church, andeven society beyond the church,
lose in the absence of brothersHairston and Maxwell?
Billy Curl (18:11):
Well, hairston, I think, a sense of a fair play we
lost that.
He was a man who, when he walksin a room where there is
discord, peace follows him whenhe's present there is.
What is Andrew thinking?
(18:33):
Is he going to say anything?
He really doesn't have to sayanything.
He's here.
And the matter of fact that he'shere has a great impact on the
direction in which thediscussion is going, the
problems that are faced.
And he was the guy who would,if I were to fly from LA to
(18:54):
Atlanta and he would say, billy,let's go have lunch.
He would take me to a hole inthe wall.
And we something that makeMcDonald's look good, and so
we're going to have lunch.
And we are something that makeMcDonald's look good, and so
we're gonna have lunch and westand there and eat a burger
while he's talking about what'shappening within the city and
(19:17):
not only giving me advice on.
He never gives you advice.
He gives you scenarios and youpick out which direction you
should go.
For what he had.
If you call him and say I have aproblem with getting some of my
(19:42):
documents signed at EmoryUniversity, he said, okay, I'll
call you back in 24 hours.
24 hours, meet me in thepresident's office and it's done
.
That type of thing.
Maxwell was the guy who wouldsay is there a problem with you
in the church?
(20:02):
What can I do to help you?
He would call the elders of thechurch, he would call the
preacher of the church, he wouldcall whoever was in charge and
say I'd like to come over andsit down and talk to you about
some of the issues that yourminister has and we would like
to see how we can resolve thosethings.
No notes, don't write anythingdown.
(20:27):
We are going to talk the onlything that we're going to bring
in this room is the Bible.
Maxwell was so committed toScripture that he took nothing
with him but the Bible,scripture, that he took nothing
(20:48):
with him but the Bible.
And don't challenge Maxwell,don't challenge him on scripture
.
He's the guy who could eat youup and then say, let's go have
lunch.
That type of a thing had abeautiful family.
His son is a very good friendof mine who is now the minister
of the West End Church inTerrell, texas, across the
(21:10):
street from SouthwesternChristian College.
That is an amazing feat what hedid with his family, what he
did with his family and theimpact that he had on the
churches in Kansas, in Ohio, inTexas.
He has preached from place toplace, went to Pepperdine
(21:33):
University here in Los Angelesand impacted this community
prior to me coming to California.
He has, wherever he, whereverhe left, he left a legacy and
that's what people like abouthim.
Maxwell has been here.
(21:54):
That's the phrase.
Maxwell has been here and whatdid he do?
BT Irwin (22:02):
I don't know, but there's no, there's peace and
these people are going to churchso a man who decides to follow
jesus and take up the cross ofministry to the church in the
world um has to experience somekind of a life event that
(22:22):
compels him to abandon all otherpaths but that one, and once
he's going in that direction, hehas experiences that keep
forming him and shaping the kindof work that he does.
What could you say about thekind of the origin stories and
formative experiences that madeBrothers Hairston and Maxwell
what they turned out to be?
Billy Curl (22:46):
I don't know that much about Hairston in terms of
his commitment he started.
In my conversations with him, Ilearned early on that he wanted
to be a preacher, but the firstthing that he did is he learned
(23:07):
the downside what is it thatI'm going to have to go through
in order to be a preacher?
And he decided to accept thatfact.
Maxwell, on the other hand, wasalso a follower of preachers,
who had experienced the good,the bad and the ugly, so he made
(23:32):
his decision to follow someonelike RN Hogan, js Winston, js
Winston those are older men thatI knew when I was a student at
Southwestern and also preachinghere in Los Angeles.
He chose men and followed theirlives, and that's when I hate
(24:02):
to use the phrase but it's likea vow of poverty.
It's like, come what may, I'mstill going to go in this
direction.
So if I do well, it's fine, ifI don't do well, I'm still going
to do it.
And so they had to struggle.
They had to struggle withfinances, especially Maxwell.
Andrew was in school all thetime.
(24:24):
Andrew was an avid reader.
His library could equal somechurches and if you were with
him, he'd always have a book,and it was not always the Bible.
(24:44):
With Maxwell, you walk into hishouse, the first thing you're
going to see is the Bible.
Wow.
And so the fact that they took adirection in life and whatever
it took for them to do that theydid.
Uh, maxwell didn't do very uh,he did all right, he was, he was
(25:10):
a success, but he did notbecome a wealthy man.
He was.
He was just one of thoseordinary men and never
complained about it because hehad a mission.
Andrew, on the other hand, wasa lieutenant colonel.
He decided to see what it waslike to be a chaplain in the
(25:32):
Army, so he became one.
Andrew decided before I teachyou about this, I'm going to
become that, so I'll know whatit's all about.
I will experience it, asopposed to going to school and
learning it from somebody.
Maxwell would go to school.
He went to SMU, got his degree,went to Pepperdine, got his
(25:52):
degree.
He learned the process.
Andrew experienced it first andthen he came back and said I'm
going to tell you what it's likebecause I've been there could
you talk a little more aboutsome of the the struggles that
they encountered um uh?
BT Irwin (26:08):
Southwestern Christian College formed in 1948, I
believe right 48, 50 and uh, andso they.
They and you were part of thatfirst decade there at the
college as students, and thenall three of you have supported
the college through the years.
Brother Hairston chose to go toAtlanta because of the civil
(26:33):
rights movement that wasstarting to blossom there in
that city.
Talk a little bit about some ofthe things that they had to
overcome in their, in theirministries and in their work
over the course of their lives.
Billy Curl (26:47):
One of the things that was really devastating not
only to them, uh, and Iexperienced a little bit of it,
uh, but I I did better becauseof them.
First, the reason forSouthwestern Christian College
is because there wasn't a chanceto go anywhere else.
(27:10):
We could not go to Harding, wecould not go to Lipson, we could
not go to Abilene Christian.
The only school that we couldgo to was Pepperdine, and so
starting Southwestern ChristianCollege was really a milestone.
(27:31):
But the cost of that it was notaccredited.
It.
Finally, when Jack Evans becamethe president I was there at
the time it became an accreditedinstitution, financially
(27:52):
strapped all the time,especially with a college of
higher learning.
It was publicized as apreaching school, and basically
it was, and then it expanded toother areas.
So these men struggled.
I remember Max not Maxwell, butAndrew Harrison who left Texas
(28:18):
and went to Atlanta.
I heard through the grapevinehe drove a Volkswagen with him
and his family all the way toAtlanta to preach at this church
, and I thought that wasabsolutely amazing for them to
make the sacrifice.
These men didn't have anything.
They struggled, but the goalthat they had was, seared deep
(28:46):
in their souls, to maximize thepreaching of the gospel and the
welfare and the social and theeconomic welfare of people, and
Atlanta was the place for that.
Southwestern was a place forMaxwell.
And then Andrew came back,after he had established a very
(29:10):
good reputation among non-Blacks, in order to raise money for
Southwestern.
He went out and made sure thathe was able to get along with
all of them so he could go backand ask them for money for
Southwestern.
Two different men doing thesame thing, a different way.
BT Irwin (29:35):
We're talking about Southwestern Christian College,
so we're talking about youngpeople generally, and we here at
the Christian Chronicle arevery much concerned with how to
engage and fire up the minds ofemerging generations of
Christians around the world.
Everywhere that we cover, Ihave children, teenagers, young
(29:57):
adults in mind here.
What would be the counsel ordirection that Brothers Hairston
and Maxwell would give ouremerging generations of
Christians now?
What might it look like forthese emerging generations to
build on what Brothers Hairstonand Maxwell started?
Billy Curl (30:50):
It's something that you must experience.
To read about it is to belimited in your knowledge.
Friends talk to them.
Their families research whatthey have done in order to
understand what they did, whythey did it and how they did it.
I am a better person because ofwhat Andrew Harrison did at
Southwestern.
He opened up that school to abroader constituency.
(31:12):
Maxwell brought an academicexcellence to his department at
the college.
If I were to send my childrenthere, they would walk out of
(31:34):
that school a better people.
They would be more committed tothe Lord as well as to their
academic pursuits.
They would want to go toAtlanta just to sit at the feet
of Andrew Harrison.
They would want to go to Kansasto see what Maxwell built as
(31:56):
well.
And how did he do this?
On a weekend every weekend?
How did he do this on a weekendevery weekend?
How did he do that?
So what they, what they wouldlearn, is that these men were
willing to sacrifice theirpersonhood for this.
And yet, at the same time, theyhad families who were right
(32:20):
there with them.
Andrew's children.
One of his sons is an attorney.
He has a son that lives outhere in California.
He has a son that lives inAlabama.
These people, if you saw, ifyou observed their funeral
(32:43):
process his grandson did theeulogy for his grandfather.
It was absolutely amazing.
The impact that they had onothers was beyond measure.
BT Irwin (32:59):
We seem to assume sometimes as we go about our
lives, that the way things arein our lives have always been
that way, and we don't stop toconsider that someone had to
build the world in which weinhabit so that we can enjoy the
blessings of that world inwhich we inhabit.
So the question is for youngergenerations or people, because
(33:20):
our audience is around the world.
Maybe there are people whohaven't heard of Brother
Hairston or Brother Maxwelluntil this episode.
What kind of world are theyinhabiting, now that perhaps
Brothers Hairston and Maxwellhad a hand in building that
world for them?
Billy Curl (33:38):
Sadly, unless they go and experience some of it,
it's kind of hard for them tograsp what these men went
through.
My own children would not dowhat they did.
I guess it's privilege of whatMaxwell and what Andrew Harrison
(34:02):
did with me changed the wholetrajectory and the ones who are
(34:30):
coming after me do not have thesame empathy and the same
relationship that I had with him.
So he is basically saying thatI have to be the one now to take
the banner and make sure thatthe world sees where
Southwestern came from and whatit has done, what it is doing
now.
It was isolated before, it wasnot supported before, it was
destined to close and we justrallied around the school
(34:56):
because of Maxwell and Harrison.
There were others, but theseare the ones that we are
focusing on at the moment.
If my children or your childrenor your grandchildren would go
there the first year, they wouldsay I want to go home.
The second year says I don'twant to go home, I want.
(35:20):
I will get immersed in what thehistory is of this college.
BT Irwin (35:30):
So here's a little, just a little imaginary game
here to tell us a little bitmore about the two men we're
talking about, maybe enrollingat Southwestern Christian
(35:52):
College to prepare for ministry.
What do you imagine they mighttake as their mission project
for the rest of the 21st century?
Billy Curl (36:03):
Maxwell would tell them don't stop studying, go to
school, get your degree, studythis Bible, look at it from a
global perspective.
When he was growing up, it wasmuch more.
It was more narrowly focused towhere we're gonna build up the
(36:25):
church and the churches ofChrist, and all of that.
Now Maxwell would say we mustdo missions, we must deal with
the elderly, we must deal withhealthcare, we must deal with
these types of things.
Maxwell would say let's getthis Bible and let's take it to
(36:46):
the world, rather than to Dallasor to Kansas or to Michigan, he
would say let's take this Bibleto the world.
Andrew Harrison would say I wantyou to be the president.
I want you to learn to become avice president.
I want you to be a civil rightsleader.
(37:07):
I want you first to be apreacher, but as a preacher, I
want you to go and become thepresident of Howard University.
I want you to be president ofHarvard.
I want you to be the nextlawyer of the Supreme Court
justice.
That is where Andrew Haslamwould send you.
(37:27):
He would say this is thedirection that you should go Be
a preacher, but then take thisprinciple and go into the legal
world, go into the economicworld, go into the social world
and show them how things are tobe done according to God's will.
(37:49):
That's the difference of thosetwo men.
I see how they complement eachother.
BT Irwin (37:56):
Yeah, they complement each other very well.
So the last question is apersonal one.
You went to the homegoingcelebrations for both Brother
Hairston and Brother Maxwell andwhen we were setting up this
interview, you mentioned thatyou have something like seven
more funerals to attend in thedays surrounding this interview.
(38:16):
So you're seeing many of yourcoworkers and peers and friends
falling asleep and going totheir rest these days.
What's going through your mindas you attend all of these
funerals?
Billy Curl (38:37):
It's interesting that you asked me that question
because since that time threemore of our members have passed
away and I did one funeralyesterday.
A young lady that grew up atour church for the last 30 years
passed away unexpectedly.
Another young man that we callus grandma and grandpa had a car
(38:59):
accident and was killed.
We have to have to do thatfuneral on Saturday At the
church where I am.
I still attend.
I was an elder at the churchfor a while.
I was there for 42 years as theminister of the church, so I
(39:24):
raised basically two generationsof people in that church.
Those are the people who arepassing away and those are
considered my people.
The new minister that we havenow will talk to me and said you
(39:47):
know, these are the people whoyou minister to, and so they're
asking for you to do the eulogy.
The family wants you to do that, and so those are the people
who are my age, a little bityounger, some a lot older, who
are passing away, and it'sreally taken its toll on my, my
(40:13):
life and my wife's life To whereI, when I was trained, I was
taught and I was trained, andthe one is that you just take it
and go do it.
When there's a funeral, you'rethe one in charge, so go take it
(40:37):
and do it, walk through it,comfort the people.
I am now having problems withthat.
I now want to sit in the pewand cry with them as opposed to
going to their homes, becausethey are my friends and in our
(40:59):
churches we call them my members.
I was their spiritual leader andnow I'm losing a lot of those
who I grew up with, who were Igrew up with, even 90% of them
that I taught and converted andbaptized.
I'm losing them and they areyounger than I am.
(41:21):
Some older.
Baptize a lady, funeralize alady.
You won't believe this.
She was 100 years old.
I knew her.
I knew her for 50 years.
Wow, when this lady died, allwe did was they handed us the
(41:43):
program.
She did everything, everythingbefore she died, printed up a
program, had the whole thinglisted.
We just opened the door to thechurch and walked in.
It was amazing to where wedidn't have to do anything.
She was that proficient, shewas that good, a hundred years
(42:07):
old.
That hurt.
She was a good friend.
So what's happening now with meis that I see the work of God, I
see the handiwork of God, I seehow God is working in the lives
(42:29):
of people.
If I may, we have a minute ortwo, I had a heart problem some
years ago and the doctor told meI had to have surgery.
I had a blockage in my heartand took me to the hospital for
(42:51):
surgery heart surgery and tookme to the hospital for surgery
heart surgery and when I gotthere, there was about I don't
know 50 or 60 people in thewaiting room waiting for me to
arrive, to pray for me before Iwent for surgery All members of
our church.
And then I had to walk away togo into the prep room and
(43:15):
there's only one thing Iremember is that what am I going
to do now when I go into theprep room?
So I prayed and I just simplysaid to the Lord if I don't wake
up, you've made the decisionthat I've done enough, but if I
(43:37):
do wake up, you've made thedecision I have not done enough,
and so I'm gonna put you backout there.
So I woke up, and so that's whyI went to Texas.
That's why I went to Texas,that's why I went to Atlanta for
the funeral, that's why I met alot of those guys who were
struggling with their churches,with their lives, with their
(44:02):
relationship with Andrew andwith Maxwell.
I just wanted to be there forthem and their families, and so
that's where it's now getting tome and I don't want to leave
because they are family.
(44:23):
It's family.
Our church is really a family.
BT Irwin (44:28):
Well, you've got family around the world.
Everyone who's listening tothis right now is grateful to
you for sharing the story ofBrother Andrew Hairston and
Brother James Maxwell and yourown story as well, and sharing a
little bit of the grief thatyou feel these days, and so I'm
certain that anyone who hearsthis is saying a prayer for you,
(44:49):
for your family, for yourcongregation, for the families
of the Hairstons, the Maxwells,everyone there in Los Angeles.
You can be sure that they'reall lifting you up to God right
now, and we're so thankful thatyou made time to share with us
today, brother Billy, thank you.
Billy Curl (45:07):
I thank you.
BT Irwin (45:09):
We hope that something you heard in this episode
encouraged, enlightened orenriched you in some way.
If it did, give thanks to Godand please pay it forward.
Subscribe to this podcast andshare it with a friend.
Recommend and review itwherever you listen to your
favorite podcasts.
Your subscription,recommendation and review help
us reach more people and pleasesend your comments, ideas and
(45:31):
suggestions to podcast atchristianchronicleorg.
Don't forget our ministry toinform and inspire Christians
and congregations around theworld is a non-profit ministry
that relies on your generosity.
So if you like the show and youwant to keep it going and make
it better, please make atax-deductible gift to the
Christian Chronicle atchristianchronicleorg.
(45:51):
Slash donate Until next time.
May grace and peace be yours inabundance.
Holly LInden (45:57):
The Christian Chronicle Podcast is a
production of the ChristianChronicle Inc.
Informing and inspiring Churchof Christ congregations, members
and ministries around the worldsince 1943.
The Christian ChroniclesManaging Editor is Audrey
Jackson, editor-in-chief BobbyRoss Jr and President and CEO
(46:19):
Eric Trigestad.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted
and edited by BT Irwin and isproduced by James Flanagan in
Detroit, michigan, usa.
I remember I used to work the
livestock farm and when they atedinner they let me go out in
the barn.
He never invited me into thehouse.
And I remember one day and I'mgonna close out this gentleman
(00:21):
had a Ed Hunter was a farmer andhe had a little girl about five
or six years old and we had atractor and a trailer that we
hauled on and I was sitting backin the tractor trailer and she
was just so crazy about Jasper.
She got back there with me andshe got so excited she hauled
(00:45):
off and kissed me.
He went crazy.
That's just how different theworld is on one side of the
track.
But you know what?
We have survived all of thatand still got our dignity.
That's all.
(01:07):
He dragged us over on the ship,put us on out in the field, put
our women in the house, kept usin the field, kept us ignorant.
We still survived.
Nothing shall separate us fromthe love of God, christ Jesus,
our Lord, and that's why, whenpeople talk about me in the
(01:31):
words of Mount Angelus, I risewhen people won't shake my hand.
Holly LInden (01:38):
I rise.
Andrew Hairston / James Ma (01:40):
When people treat me indifferently,
I rise.
When the money gets low I rise.
When the debts are high.
I rise when my friends leave meall alone.
I rise when things don't workout like I'd like them to.
(02:02):
I'll rise, I'll rise, I'll rise, I'll rise.
Holly LInden (02:09):
And when you rise, may God bless you.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle Podcast.
We are bringing you the storyshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
Here is our host, BT Irwin.
BT Irwin (02:25):
Family and friends, neighbors and, most of all,
strangers.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle podcast.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
17th century physicist andtheologian Isaac Newton said
that when we envision a greaterfuture and imagine its
possibilities, it is because weare standing on the shoulders of
(02:48):
giants, that is, people whocame before us to lay
foundations on which we canbuild better things.
And what could be a betterthing to build than to build for
the kingdom of God?
Today, we bring you two giantswho devoted a combined 178 years
to building for the kingdom ofGod, and they often did it in
(03:09):
the manner that Nehemiah'svolunteers rebuilt the walls of
Jerusalem, enduring greatstruggle along the way.
Andrew Hairston stood in thepulpit of the Simpson Street
Church of Christ in Atlanta,georgia, for over 50 years.
Not only was he a preacher, hewas a groundbreaking attorney
and judge, best known to theoutside world for his defense of
(03:30):
Dr Martin Luther King Jr andhis prosecution of pornographer
Larry Flint.
Brother Hairston was one of thefirst students to matriculate
at Southwestern ChristianCollege in Terrell, texas, the
only HBCU with deep roots andstrong ties in the Church of
Christ.
Brother Hairston continued tobe an active supporter of the
school and its students as longas he lived.
(03:51):
He went to his rest on January14, 2025, at the age of 92.
James Maxwell was a fellowSouthwestern Christian alumnus
who also went on to serve on theschool's administration for
half a century.
Known to his students as agreat teacher of the Bible and a
mentor, brother Maxwell addedfull-time congregational
(04:12):
ministry to his work atSouthwestern Christian.
Over his long life he servedChurch of Christ congregations
in Kansas, mississippi, ohio andTexas.
Brother Maxwell also went tohis rest on January 14 at the
age of 86.
You'll find links to completeobituaries and tributes to both
Andrew Hairston and JamesMaxwell in the show notes here.
(04:34):
To talk about Brothers Hairstonand Maxwell is Brother Billy
Curl.
Brother Curl is a fellowalumnus with Brothers Hairston
and Maxwell of SouthwesternChristian College.
Like Brothers Hairston andMaxwell of Southwestern
Christian College, like BrothersHairston and Maxwell, he served
as a congregational ministerfor many, many years.
That includes more than 40years with the Crenshaw Church
of Christ in Los Angeles,california, where he continues
(04:56):
to serve as an elder today.
His work on behalf of our Lordhas taken him to congregations,
ministries and organizationsaround the world, including the
Christian Chronicle, where heserved on the board of trustees
for several years.
Brother Curl, thank you formaking time to talk to us today
about two men who were importantto you and important to the
church wherever it may be found.
Billy Curl (05:17):
Thank you, it's good to be here.
BT Irwin (05:20):
Before we get into it.
You're there in Los Angeles andyou and your neighbors have
suffered an unimaginabledisaster and unimaginable loss
over the last few weeks.
How are things for you and yourcongregation, and what can you
tell us about how the aftermathof the wildfires is affecting
folks out there?
Billy Curl (05:38):
This was a major disaster for Southern California
and the Los Angeles area.
We didn't expect to havethousands of homes destroyed
from the Pacific Palisades toAltadena, pasadena area, which
(05:58):
is north of us where we live inthe Crenshaw area of Los Angeles
.
The Altadena, the Pasadenafires are east of us, northeast
of us and it just is reallyapocalyptic.
(06:19):
It's just absolutely amazinghow those balls of fire that
were carried by 100 mile an hourwinds they just landed on top
of homes.
They destroyed home after homeafter home, 5,000 homes.
And in addition to the disaster, it didn't bother our community
(06:44):
as well, the disaster, itdidn't bother our community as
well.
We're living near the LosAngeles International Airport
and we're closer to the ocean,and in this area, from Santa
Monica to Long Beach, it didn'tbother us that much, except the
debris from the winds did comein our direction, but we didn't
(07:04):
have any fires.
The problems that we're facingcatastrophic.
We didn't have any problemswith our church, in many of our
members' homes, but we did havemembers who lived in Altadena.
We had people who lived inPasadena who actually lost their
homes.
We had a family that we had tomove into our home for a few
(07:26):
days.
Many of them, left their homesin a matter of minutes with
nothing but what they had ontheir backs and I wish I could
just tell story after storyafter story, but our incident
after incident.
But one family left their home,had a nice job, had money in
(07:50):
the bank and ran actually ranfrom the fire immediately.
Some money went to the bank andthe bank was gone.
BT Irwin (08:04):
Oh no.
Billy Curl (08:05):
So there was no place to go to get the money.
The bank was burned.
They had no ID, didn't have adriver's license, had nothing to
identify themselves, so we hadhundreds of people walking
around in shock.
I've seen this on televisionthat had been done by the movie
(08:26):
people how people walk around inshock.
This was actually real.
Some of our members at leastthree of our members who lost
their homes.
So we have started a project toreplace some of the living
standards we food and clothesand even money so that they
could buy the toiletries thatthey needed Transportation to
(08:49):
take them out of the area towhere they could buy things.
People from all across thecountry called us and other
churches that were not impactedby the fires are really reaching
out to help.
It's only a minuscule thing.
It's when you talk about150,000 people who are impacted
(09:13):
and we're only dealing with 50or 60 to a hundred people.
It tells you what's left over.
So it's a major catastrophe.
BT Irwin (09:24):
Well, thank you for sharing that with us.
We at the Christian Chroniclehave been covering this, and
I'll put some links in the shownotes, so if people want to help
out, they'll have a way torespond.
We're here today to talk abouttwo men that you knew well,
brothers Andrew Hairston andJames Maxwell.
As we said in the introduction,they went to their rest on
(09:47):
January 14, the same day of thisyear.
Hairs fall from our heads,sparrows fall to the ground.
Christians die every day, andevery one of them is precious to
God, but what about AndrewHairston and James Maxwell is
worth devoting so much energyand time to talking about their
lives?
Billy Curl (10:06):
I wish I had all day .
Andrew Hairston was a personalfriend of mine.
He was a little bit older thanI am and he was a man's man.
He loved the church.
He loved God.
He loved preaching, but heloved the church.
He loved God.
He loved preaching, but heloved preachers.
(10:27):
He loved helping folk.
His personality was so differentfrom Maxwell.
Maxwell was one who was aprofessor.
He loved to teach.
He was a church builder.
He was a church builder.
Maxwell traveled every weekendfrom Dallas to Kansas to preach
(10:49):
at a church.
Every Sunday he would get on anairplane and fly there.
Who really learned more aboutpreaching?
They learned more aboutspiritual growth.
They learned methodology.
(11:11):
They just really followed him,because he not only just taught
Scripture and Bible andprinciples, metro taught them
how to maneuver through thecultural maze that existed
within the country.
These two men were different.
(11:34):
Andrew was a guy who would neverteach you unless he went to the
school and learned it first.
When someone asked him aboutlaw, he went to law school and
became a lawyer before he wouldreally sit down and talk to you
about law.
He got involved in the civilrights movement from a legal
(11:56):
perspective and he did that, buthe went and became a part of
the system before he taughtpeople about what it really
meant to be involved in thecivil rights movement.
He was a guy who started how todeal with Bible schools so he
built one.
(12:17):
I remember.
I remember visiting his homeand he was at the door, opened
the door and walked away.
Instead of welcoming me in thehouse, he opened the door and
walked away.
Instead of welcoming me in thehouse, he opened the door and
turned and walked away.
So I just say I assume this isan invitation to follow you.
So I followed him and he hadhis dissertation or his book all
(12:42):
laid out on the floor.
It was the whole room was justparagraph after paragraph of
things that he was writing.
He was a family man.
He and I served on the board oftrustees of Southwestern
Christian College.
He was the chair of the boardand when they nominated him he
(13:06):
said I will not accept theposition as chair of the board
unless Billy Curl decides tobecome the vice chair.
And so we became Mutt Jeff andfor several years we served as
the chair and the vice chair ofSouthwest St Christian College.
(13:29):
That's when Jack Evans was thepresident and that's when I got
to know James Maxwell that well,a very quiet, studious,
friendly man who caredindividually about his students.
He was not a very wealthy mannot at all and he would use
(13:53):
sometimes his own money to helphis students when they were.
Some of those students came tothe school that were very poor.
They were struggling just toget through there because they
wanted to be one of his studentsand there were times when on
holidays they couldn't go home.
(14:14):
He would go into his pocket andpay for their way to go home
and come back.
He was that type of that typeof individual.
He would take students overtime to teach them, instead of
having just a classroom whereyou have an hour and a half of a
lecture.
He would take the hour and ahalf and then come by my house.
(14:37):
We got two more hours of studyand we're going to do it
together.
He was that type of a man Agreat preacher.
He was a very good preacher.
Not only that, maxwell was aguy who had plans.
He built the Senior CitizenCenter in Kansas and then when
(15:01):
we served together atSouthwestern, he never stood out
front, but you knew he was inthe room.
He never stood up and said I'mgoing to do this.
I'm going to do that.
They stood up and said BrotherMaxwell did this.
Brother Maxwell did that.
He never what's the phrase?
(15:22):
He never tooted his own horn,but somebody else did.
And of all the people when Iattended his funeral, all the
people who came to his funeralwere people who he had touched
their lives in so many ways.
Brother Andrew Harrisonbelieved in justice but in order
(15:48):
to do that he got inside thejustice system.
Maxwell would deal with thestudent.
Andrew Harrison would deal withthe president.
He would call the president ofthe college.
He would call the dean of thecollege.
Maxwell would call thepresident of the college.
He would call the dean of thecollege.
Maxwell would call the studentand the teacher.
He would talk to this teacher.
(16:10):
He would talk to the student.
Maxwell Andrew Harrison wouldgo directly to the top and he
was highly respected in Atlantaand he made you feel as if you
were his best friend.
And when I went to the funeral Ikind of felt a little perturbed
(16:32):
because I learned I thought Iwas his only friend until I got
to the funeral.
Until I got to the funeral andI saw 200 who said the same
thing.
And it's really amazing to getto know his family.
(16:53):
He was a very humble man.
He was sitting in your presenceand say very little, but the
moment he started talking youwould say, wow, I didn't know I
was in the presence of such agiant.
He was a hero.
He was one of the heroes of theBrotherhood that did not have a
(17:13):
national platform.
Maxwell was the same way workedright under the radar, even
though they were people ofcharacter prominence.
It was absolutely awesome.
Hope I didn't get too far intothat.
BT Irwin (17:34):
That's good.
That's good.
That's a good setup for thenext question, when you talk
about the two of them beingheroes that fell under the radar
, didn't have a nationalplatform and yet the way that
you've described them and theway that they were eulogized,
they had a major impact onpeople's lives and on the church
(17:58):
that maybe people didn'trealize they were having.
So what does the church, andeven society beyond the church,
lose in the absence of brothersHairston and Maxwell?
Billy Curl (18:11):
Well, hairston, I think, a sense of a fair play we
lost that.
He was a man who, when he walksin a room where there is
discord, peace follows him whenhe's present there is.
What is Andrew thinking?
(18:33):
Is he going to say anything?
He really doesn't have to sayanything.
He's here.
And the matter of fact that he'shere has a great impact on the
direction in which thediscussion is going, the
problems that are faced.
And he was the guy who would,if I were to fly from LA to
(18:54):
Atlanta and he would say, billy,let's go have lunch.
He would take me to a hole inthe wall.
And we something that makeMcDonald's look good, and so
we're going to have lunch.
And we are something that makeMcDonald's look good, and so
we're gonna have lunch and westand there and eat a burger
while he's talking about what'shappening within the city and
(19:17):
not only giving me advice on.
He never gives you advice.
He gives you scenarios and youpick out which direction you
should go.
For what he had.
If you call him and say I have aproblem with getting some of my
(19:42):
documents signed at EmoryUniversity, he said, okay, I'll
call you back in 24 hours.
24 hours, meet me in thepresident's office and it's done
.
That type of thing.
Maxwell was the guy who wouldsay is there a problem with you
in the church?
(20:02):
What can I do to help you?
He would call the elders of thechurch, he would call the
preacher of the church, he wouldcall whoever was in charge and
say I'd like to come over andsit down and talk to you about
some of the issues that yourminister has and we would like
to see how we can resolve thosethings.
No notes, don't write anythingdown.
(20:27):
We are going to talk the onlything that we're going to bring
in this room is the Bible.
Maxwell was so committed toScripture that he took nothing
with him but the Bible,scripture, that he took nothing
(20:48):
with him but the Bible.
And don't challenge Maxwell,don't challenge him on scripture
.
He's the guy who could eat youup and then say, let's go have
lunch.
That type of a thing had abeautiful family.
His son is a very good friendof mine who is now the minister
of the West End Church inTerrell, texas, across the
(21:10):
street from SouthwesternChristian College.
That is an amazing feat what hedid with his family, what he
did with his family and theimpact that he had on the
churches in Kansas, in Ohio, inTexas.
He has preached from place toplace, went to Pepperdine
(21:33):
University here in Los Angelesand impacted this community
prior to me coming to California.
He has, wherever he, whereverhe left, he left a legacy and
that's what people like abouthim.
Maxwell has been here.
(21:54):
That's the phrase.
Maxwell has been here and whatdid he do?
BT Irwin (22:02):
I don't know, but there's no, there's peace and
these people are going to churchso a man who decides to follow
jesus and take up the cross ofministry to the church in the
world um has to experience somekind of a life event that
(22:22):
compels him to abandon all otherpaths but that one, and once
he's going in that direction, hehas experiences that keep
forming him and shaping the kindof work that he does.
What could you say about thekind of the origin stories and
formative experiences that madeBrothers Hairston and Maxwell
what they turned out to be?
Billy Curl (22:46):
I don't know that much about Hairston in terms of
his commitment he started.
In my conversations with him, Ilearned early on that he wanted
to be a preacher, but the firstthing that he did is he learned
(23:07):
the downside what is it thatI'm going to have to go through
in order to be a preacher?
And he decided to accept thatfact.
Maxwell, on the other hand, wasalso a follower of preachers,
who had experienced the good,the bad and the ugly, so he made
(23:32):
his decision to follow someonelike RN Hogan, js Winston, js
Winston those are older men thatI knew when I was a student at
Southwestern and also preachinghere in Los Angeles.
He chose men and followed theirlives, and that's when I hate
(24:02):
to use the phrase but it's likea vow of poverty.
It's like, come what may, I'mstill going to go in this
direction.
So if I do well, it's fine, ifI don't do well, I'm still going
to do it.
And so they had to struggle.
They had to struggle withfinances, especially Maxwell.
Andrew was in school all thetime.
(24:24):
Andrew was an avid reader.
His library could equal somechurches and if you were with
him, he'd always have a book,and it was not always the Bible.
(24:44):
With Maxwell, you walk into hishouse, the first thing you're
going to see is the Bible.
Wow.
And so the fact that they took adirection in life and whatever
it took for them to do that theydid.
Uh, maxwell didn't do very uh,he did all right, he was, he was
(25:10):
a success, but he did notbecome a wealthy man.
He was.
He was just one of thoseordinary men and never
complained about it because hehad a mission.
Andrew, on the other hand, wasa lieutenant colonel.
He decided to see what it waslike to be a chaplain in the
(25:32):
Army, so he became one.
Andrew decided before I teachyou about this, I'm going to
become that, so I'll know whatit's all about.
I will experience it, asopposed to going to school and
learning it from somebody.
Maxwell would go to school.
He went to SMU, got his degree,went to Pepperdine, got his
(25:52):
degree.
He learned the process.
Andrew experienced it first andthen he came back and said I'm
going to tell you what it's likebecause I've been there could
you talk a little more aboutsome of the the struggles that
they encountered um uh?
BT Irwin (26:08):
Southwestern Christian College formed in 1948, I
believe right 48, 50 and uh, andso they.
They and you were part of thatfirst decade there at the
college as students, and thenall three of you have supported
the college through the years.
Brother Hairston chose to go toAtlanta because of the civil
(26:33):
rights movement that wasstarting to blossom there in
that city.
Talk a little bit about some ofthe things that they had to
overcome in their, in theirministries and in their work
over the course of their lives.
Billy Curl (26:47):
One of the things that was really devastating not
only to them, uh, and Iexperienced a little bit of it,
uh, but I I did better becauseof them.
First, the reason forSouthwestern Christian College
is because there wasn't a chanceto go anywhere else.
(27:10):
We could not go to Harding, wecould not go to Lipson, we could
not go to Abilene Christian.
The only school that we couldgo to was Pepperdine, and so
starting Southwestern ChristianCollege was really a milestone.
(27:31):
But the cost of that it was notaccredited.
It.
Finally, when Jack Evans becamethe president I was there at
the time it became an accreditedinstitution, financially
(27:52):
strapped all the time,especially with a college of
higher learning.
It was publicized as apreaching school, and basically
it was, and then it expanded toother areas.
So these men struggled.
I remember Max not Maxwell, butAndrew Harrison who left Texas
(28:18):
and went to Atlanta.
I heard through the grapevinehe drove a Volkswagen with him
and his family all the way toAtlanta to preach at this church
, and I thought that wasabsolutely amazing for them to
make the sacrifice.
These men didn't have anything.
They struggled, but the goalthat they had was, seared deep
(28:46):
in their souls, to maximize thepreaching of the gospel and the
welfare and the social and theeconomic welfare of people, and
Atlanta was the place for that.
Southwestern was a place forMaxwell.
And then Andrew came back,after he had established a very
(29:10):
good reputation among non-Blacks, in order to raise money for
Southwestern.
He went out and made sure thathe was able to get along with
all of them so he could go backand ask them for money for
Southwestern.
Two different men doing thesame thing, a different way.
BT Irwin (29:35):
We're talking about Southwestern Christian College,
so we're talking about youngpeople generally, and we here at
the Christian Chronicle arevery much concerned with how to
engage and fire up the minds ofemerging generations of
Christians around the world.
Everywhere that we cover, Ihave children, teenagers, young
(29:57):
adults in mind here.
What would be the counsel ordirection that Brothers Hairston
and Maxwell would give ouremerging generations of
Christians now?
What might it look like forthese emerging generations to
build on what Brothers Hairstonand Maxwell started?
Billy Curl (30:50):
It's something that you must experience.
To read about it is to belimited in your knowledge.
Friends talk to them.
Their families research whatthey have done in order to
understand what they did, whythey did it and how they did it.
I am a better person because ofwhat Andrew Harrison did at
Southwestern.
He opened up that school to abroader constituency.
(31:12):
Maxwell brought an academicexcellence to his department at
the college.
If I were to send my childrenthere, they would walk out of
(31:34):
that school a better people.
They would be more committed tothe Lord as well as to their
academic pursuits.
They would want to go toAtlanta just to sit at the feet
of Andrew Harrison.
They would want to go to Kansasto see what Maxwell built as
(31:56):
well.
And how did he do this?
On a weekend every weekend?
How did he do this on a weekendevery weekend?
How did he do that?
So what they, what they wouldlearn, is that these men were
willing to sacrifice theirpersonhood for this.
And yet, at the same time, theyhad families who were right
(32:20):
there with them.
Andrew's children.
One of his sons is an attorney.
He has a son that lives outhere in California.
He has a son that lives inAlabama.
These people, if you saw, ifyou observed their funeral
(32:43):
process his grandson did theeulogy for his grandfather.
It was absolutely amazing.
The impact that they had onothers was beyond measure.
BT Irwin (32:59):
We seem to assume sometimes as we go about our
lives, that the way things arein our lives have always been
that way, and we don't stop toconsider that someone had to
build the world in which weinhabit so that we can enjoy the
blessings of that world inwhich we inhabit.
So the question is for youngergenerations or people, because
(33:20):
our audience is around the world.
Maybe there are people whohaven't heard of Brother
Hairston or Brother Maxwelluntil this episode.
What kind of world are theyinhabiting, now that perhaps
Brothers Hairston and Maxwellhad a hand in building that
world for them?
Billy Curl (33:38):
Sadly, unless they go and experience some of it,
it's kind of hard for them tograsp what these men went
through.
My own children would not dowhat they did.
I guess it's privilege of whatMaxwell and what Andrew Harrison
(34:02):
did with me changed the wholetrajectory and the ones who are
(34:30):
coming after me do not have thesame empathy and the same
relationship that I had with him.
So he is basically saying thatI have to be the one now to take
the banner and make sure thatthe world sees where
Southwestern came from and whatit has done, what it is doing
now.
It was isolated before, it wasnot supported before, it was
destined to close and we justrallied around the school
(34:56):
because of Maxwell and Harrison.
There were others, but theseare the ones that we are
focusing on at the moment.
If my children or your childrenor your grandchildren would go
there the first year, they wouldsay I want to go home.
The second year says I don'twant to go home, I want.
(35:20):
I will get immersed in what thehistory is of this college.
BT Irwin (35:30):
So here's a little, just a little imaginary game
here to tell us a little bitmore about the two men we're
talking about, maybe enrollingat Southwestern Christian
(35:52):
College to prepare for ministry.
What do you imagine they mighttake as their mission project
for the rest of the 21st century?
Billy Curl (36:03):
Maxwell would tell them don't stop studying, go to
school, get your degree, studythis Bible, look at it from a
global perspective.
When he was growing up, it wasmuch more.
It was more narrowly focused towhere we're gonna build up the
(36:25):
church and the churches ofChrist, and all of that.
Now Maxwell would say we mustdo missions, we must deal with
the elderly, we must deal withhealthcare, we must deal with
these types of things.
Maxwell would say let's getthis Bible and let's take it to
(36:46):
the world, rather than to Dallasor to Kansas or to Michigan, he
would say let's take this Bibleto the world.
Andrew Harrison would say I wantyou to be the president.
I want you to learn to become avice president.
I want you to be a civil rightsleader.
(37:07):
I want you first to be apreacher, but as a preacher, I
want you to go and become thepresident of Howard University.
I want you to be president ofHarvard.
I want you to be the nextlawyer of the Supreme Court
justice.
That is where Andrew Haslamwould send you.
(37:27):
He would say this is thedirection that you should go Be
a preacher, but then take thisprinciple and go into the legal
world, go into the economicworld, go into the social world
and show them how things are tobe done according to God's will.
(37:49):
That's the difference of thosetwo men.
I see how they complement eachother.
BT Irwin (37:56):
Yeah, they complement each other very well.
So the last question is apersonal one.
You went to the homegoingcelebrations for both Brother
Hairston and Brother Maxwell andwhen we were setting up this
interview, you mentioned thatyou have something like seven
more funerals to attend in thedays surrounding this interview.
(38:16):
So you're seeing many of yourcoworkers and peers and friends
falling asleep and going totheir rest these days.
What's going through your mindas you attend all of these
funerals?
Billy Curl (38:37):
It's interesting that you asked me that question
because since that time threemore of our members have passed
away and I did one funeralyesterday.
A young lady that grew up atour church for the last 30 years
passed away unexpectedly.
Another young man that we callus grandma and grandpa had a car
(38:59):
accident and was killed.
We have to have to do thatfuneral on Saturday At the
church where I am.
I still attend.
I was an elder at the churchfor a while.
I was there for 42 years as theminister of the church, so I
(39:24):
raised basically two generationsof people in that church.
Those are the people who arepassing away and those are
considered my people.
The new minister that we havenow will talk to me and said you
(39:47):
know, these are the people whoyou minister to, and so they're
asking for you to do the eulogy.
The family wants you to do that, and so those are the people
who are my age, a little bityounger, some a lot older, who
are passing away, and it'sreally taken its toll on my, my
(40:13):
life and my wife's life To whereI, when I was trained, I was
taught and I was trained, andthe one is that you just take it
and go do it.
When there's a funeral, you'rethe one in charge, so go take it
(40:37):
and do it, walk through it,comfort the people.
I am now having problems withthat.
I now want to sit in the pewand cry with them as opposed to
going to their homes, becausethey are my friends and in our
(40:59):
churches we call them my members.
I was their spiritual leader andnow I'm losing a lot of those
who I grew up with, who were Igrew up with, even 90% of them
that I taught and converted andbaptized.
I'm losing them and they areyounger than I am.
(41:21):
Some older.
Baptize a lady, funeralize alady.
You won't believe this.
She was 100 years old.
I knew her.
I knew her for 50 years.
Wow, when this lady died, allwe did was they handed us the
(41:43):
program.
She did everything, everythingbefore she died, printed up a
program, had the whole thinglisted.
We just opened the door to thechurch and walked in.
It was amazing to where wedidn't have to do anything.
She was that proficient, shewas that good, a hundred years
(42:07):
old.
That hurt.
She was a good friend.
So what's happening now with meis that I see the work of God, I
see the handiwork of God, I seehow God is working in the lives
(42:29):
of people.
If I may, we have a minute ortwo, I had a heart problem some
years ago and the doctor told meI had to have surgery.
I had a blockage in my heartand took me to the hospital for
(42:51):
surgery heart surgery and tookme to the hospital for surgery
heart surgery and when I gotthere, there was about I don't
know 50 or 60 people in thewaiting room waiting for me to
arrive, to pray for me before Iwent for surgery All members of
our church.
And then I had to walk away togo into the prep room and
(43:15):
there's only one thing Iremember is that what am I going
to do now when I go into theprep room?
So I prayed and I just simplysaid to the Lord if I don't wake
up, you've made the decisionthat I've done enough, but if I
(43:37):
do wake up, you've made thedecision I have not done enough,
and so I'm gonna put you backout there.
So I woke up, and so that's whyI went to Texas.
That's why I went to Texas,that's why I went to Atlanta for
the funeral, that's why I met alot of those guys who were
struggling with their churches,with their lives, with their
(44:02):
relationship with Andrew andwith Maxwell.
I just wanted to be there forthem and their families, and so
that's where it's now getting tome and I don't want to leave
because they are family.
(44:23):
It's family.
Our church is really a family.
BT Irwin (44:28):
Well, you've got family around the world.
Everyone who's listening tothis right now is grateful to
you for sharing the story ofBrother Andrew Hairston and
Brother James Maxwell and yourown story as well, and sharing a
little bit of the grief thatyou feel these days, and so I'm
certain that anyone who hearsthis is saying a prayer for you,
(44:49):
for your family, for yourcongregation, for the families
of the Hairstons, the Maxwells,everyone there in Los Angeles.
You can be sure that they'reall lifting you up to God right
now, and we're so thankful thatyou made time to share with us
today, brother Billy, thank you.
Billy Curl (45:07):
I thank you.
BT Irwin (45:09):
We hope that something you heard in this episode
encouraged, enlightened orenriched you in some way.
If it did, give thanks to Godand please pay it forward.
Subscribe to this podcast andshare it with a friend.
Recommend and review itwherever you listen to your
favorite podcasts.
Your subscription,recommendation and review help
us reach more people and pleasesend your comments, ideas and
(45:31):
suggestions to podcast atchristianchronicleorg.
Don't forget our ministry toinform and inspire Christians
and congregations around theworld is a non-profit ministry
that relies on your generosity.
So if you like the show and youwant to keep it going and make
it better, please make atax-deductible gift to the
Christian Chronicle atchristianchronicleorg.
(45:51):
Slash donate Until next time.
May grace and peace be yours inabundance.
Holly LInden (45:57):
The Christian Chronicle Podcast is a
production of the ChristianChronicle Inc.
Informing and inspiring Churchof Christ congregations, members
and ministries around the worldsince 1943.
The Christian ChroniclesManaging Editor is Audrey
Jackson, editor-in-chief BobbyRoss Jr and President and CEO
(46:19):
Eric Trigestad.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted
and edited by BT Irwin and isproduced by James Flanagan in
Detroit, michigan, usa.
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