Marie Stroughter (Westside Church of Christ, Killeen, Texas) is an all-star "church mom" and "church wife," raising three kids (two adopted), supporting her elder/deacon husband, and volunteering in the life and programs of the church. And she does all of that while living with mental health challenges like obsessive-compulsive disorder and panic attacks.
As many as one in four Americans deals with mental illness on some level at some time. As Marie says in this episode, that means that in a congregation with 100 members, there could be 25 members who are going through some mental health struggle at any given time.
Living with mental illness gives Marie the compassion, empathy and understanding to come alongside other Christians who are living with mental illness challenges of their own. She started the MoMo ("Motivational Moments") 634 (as in Matthew 6:34) Podcast, a daily dose of affirmation and inspiration from Scripture for those who live with mental illness.
Link to 9-8-8 suicide crisis hotline
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Holly Linden (00:03):
Welcome to the Christian Chronicle Podcast.
We are bringing you the storyshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
Here is our host, BT Irwin.
BT Irwin (00:14):
Family and friends, neighbors and, most of all,
strangers.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle Podcast.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
According to the latestresearch, about one in four
Americans and one in eightpersons worldwide is living with
mental illness in some form.
(00:36):
So the odds are strong thatsomeone sitting next to you in
the pew on Sunday morning isstruggling with mental health.
It may even be the person youleast expect, the one who is
always smiling and seems to haveit all together.
Our guest today, marie Strotter,may have been one such
Christian that is active,involved and leading by example
(00:58):
at church, but struggling withmental health all the same.
Over the last 20-plus years, shehas been an active member of
Church of Christ congregationsin California and Texas, where
she is now a member of theWestside Church of Christ in
Killeen.
In addition to raising andhomeschooling three kids, two
adopted, she also threw herselfinto the many kinds of volunteer
(01:21):
activities that devotedChristian mothers and wives
often do for the church.
But even as she did so much tolift the lives of so many in her
circle, marie struggled withmental health.
In a minute you'll hear herstory in her own voice.
Not only that you'll hear howMarie is turning her own mental
health challenges into aministry to those who also bear
(01:42):
this burden while trying to livethe Christ life and, as I said
a moment ago, there are many whobear this burden, myself
included.
Marie is here to tell us herstory and talk about how she
joined God in a ministry tothose who are living with mental
illness.
Marie, thank you for opening upyour life and ministry to us
today.
Marie Stroughter (02:02):
Thank you so much for having me.
BT Irwin (02:04):
Okay, well, let's start by defining a key term for
our conversation.
What do we mean by mentalhealth or mental illness?
I think maybe Christianssometimes interpret these words
as meaning crazy, not crazy, orderanged or not deranged, that
kind of thing.
What are we talking about whenwe talk about mental illness and
its converse, mental health?
Marie Stroughter (02:26):
Well, given that one in four people suffer
from some sort of mood disorderor mental health condition, the
likelihood that you know someonewho does have one of these
conditions is pretty high.
And I see it more as acontinuum, if you will.
(02:47):
On one end you have sort ofsituational issues like a death
or a loss of some sort, or theloss of a job or a divorce, a
move, those sorts of things that, generally speaking, with time
and sometimes therapy ormedication, clear up.
Then you have sort of thelow-grade dysthymia, which is
(03:11):
the kind of common cold ofdepression, which is this really
low-grade depression that runsin the background.
And then you have the fullcontinuum through neurodivergent
conditions such as autism.
Continuum through neurodivergentconditions such as autism,
those sorts of things, all theway to the things that most
people probably think of whenthey think of mental illness,
(03:32):
like schizophrenia or some ofthe other more obvious types of
mental illness, where people saythings that don't have a
semblance of where they'redisconnected from reality.
Things that don't have asemblance of where they're
disconnected from reality, butgenerally speaking that one in
four.
If you are in a smallercongregation, say, of 100 people
, that's 25 people and if you'velooked around, you know, or a
(04:01):
larger congregation of 300people, that's 75 people.
You're probably not going tosee the more extreme cases.
You're probably going to seemore of the lower grade or
situational things such as mooddisorders, those kinds of things
.
So there is, I believe, acontinuum and with those
statistics the odds, as I said,are pretty high that you know
someone, and that's why it'spretty disturbing to me that we
(04:24):
don't discuss it much more thanwe do and the fact that these
types of issues tend to leadsometimes to other issues, such
as addictions, where people aretrying to mask the symptoms of,
let's say, adhd or some othersort of issue, mental health
issue.
They tend to mask them withaddictive behaviors.
BT Irwin (04:48):
Tell me about how your understanding of mental health
and mental illness has changedor developed through the years.
Marie Stroughter (04:56):
I wouldn't say that it's perhaps changed.
I think that maybe time haschanged.
Think that maybe time haschanged.
I'm 60 and I come from thegeneration after where talking?
about mental health and mentalhealth issues just was not done
and so I grew up not having anissue talking about ADHD.
(05:20):
I have a cousin who has ADHD,those kinds of things.
That was pretty, I think,standard.
But the generation before didnot do that.
So parents, caregivers aroundme, it was kind of the suck it
up and lift your stuff up byyour own bootstraps sort of
(05:40):
generation and that wasn't veryhelpful for me.
I was a bit of a handful, so Ineeded a little bit more support
than that.
So I think, having come fromthat experience where I didn't
get exactly what I needed fromthose around me because I don't
think they were able to do thatculturally, I think that that
(06:07):
led me more to speaking out and,as you mentioned, having been a
Christian in the church for awhile, going to services with a
lot of those older folks thatdidn't talk about it, and you
know we lived through the GreatDepression, so you know we lived
through all these reallydifficult times and you know you
(06:33):
young whippersnapper just youknow, buckle up.
So I did hear a lot of reallyhurtful things and, as you
mentioned, being a leader in thechurch, my husband was a deacon
and is now an elder, as beingunder the microscope, I often
heard hurtful comments again,such as the you know, buck up,
it's kind of all in your head,which it is literally all in
your head, others.
(07:00):
So that's kind of notnecessarily that my views have
changed, but my militancy, ifyou will, in educating others.
Because those comments whenyou're dealing with the
depression and you know this,given your own situation you're
stuffing down a lot of your ownfeelings and trying to mask and
(07:22):
fit in already and the mentalload is pretty heavy already
that you're carrying and then tonot want, you're worried about
people thinking that you'reweird or crazy or deranged, some
of those other things, and thatyou're meeting your load in
helping with congregationalthings, whatever it might be,
and then you've got these, uh,mischaracterizations or
(07:45):
misinformation as well, and it'sjust a lot.
I found that it was a lot for meto handle and so I felt that
the need to start talking aboutit and really educating people
and that their comments weren'tnecessarily helpful.
I don't think it came from aplace of bad intention.
I think part of it wasculturally again, you know, we
don't talk about those thingsfrom that generation but also I
(08:10):
think that as humans we want tostep in and speak and comfort
other people, but we don't knowwhat to say, and so it's kind of
a Job's friends situation whereyou know you compound the
situation rather than helping it.
BT Irwin (08:27):
Did you ever get the?
You know you talked about thegeneration.
That'd be like you're depressed.
I lived through the greatdepression, but then I'm 49.
So people that were a littlecloser to my age.
There's kind of this thingwhere, well, you should have the
joy of the Lord and the peacethat passeth, understanding you
(08:49):
ought to be able to pray thisaway.
I mean, did you ever get thatkind of pressure too, from
well-meaning Christians thatfelt like, hey, if you prayed
harder or just submitted more tothe peace of Christ, all of
this would just go away?
Marie Stroughter (09:03):
That right there.
That statement is probably theone that made me the angriest
and had me speaking out becauseI felt honestly pretty angry
about it.
If you think about it, we don'tsay that to people with cancer,
we don't say that to peoplewith heart conditions or that
have mobility issues or that aresuffering dementia.
(09:25):
And would prayer help thosesituations?
Of course prayer helps everysituation.
However, I think people whohave mental health issues
probably pray more than anyoneelse because, as I said, that
mental load, that masking,trying to do it all with OCD
(09:46):
such as I, have that anxiety.
You know I don't want to forgetanything, so I tend to
interrupt because I don't wantto forget saying something or
you know, whatever it might be,that anxiety drives so much, and
so I tend to pray a lot, and sothat was kind of insulting.
(10:07):
Of course prayer does help, butwe don't say it in other
situations and I almost went ona rant the other day because I
was pretty upset.
I have a couple of friends whoare dealing with hospitalization
issues and I felt like you know, you can't really I'm not
saying you do it to get sympathy, but if I were to say I was
(10:30):
diagnosed with breast cancer,people would be, oh, I'm praying
for you, I'm so sorry to hearthat.
Or if I say I lost, you know, arelative, I'm praying for you.
But if I say, oh, you know, myhusband was diagnosed with
schizophrenia, people are like,okay, you know that kind of
thing.
And so I think you know.
A couple of episodes that I'vedone on the podcast have to do
(10:52):
with things not to say andthings to say to be helpful, and
if you can't think of anythingto say, it's like our parents
taught us don't say anything atall.
I was dealing with someonerecently who was going through
some issues with a family memberand I just put my arm around
her and sat with her and cried.
BT Irwin (11:13):
One of the things that you're touching on here is
there's a stigma.
So you talked aboutschizophrenia, for example, and
there's a strong stigma attachedto that.
You know, when we've had peoplein our family that had cancer,
I would go forward and ask forprayer.
That had cancer, I would goforward and ask for prayer.
At our congregation we have astrong prayer ministry where
(11:33):
there are people standing at thefour corners of the auditorium
and you can go every week andask for prayer if you want.
And there were times where Iwould go forward almost every
week to ask for prayer for thesefamily members who had cancer.
Or you know someone in our ownfamily who had job loss or was
having trouble in school,something like that.
But I feel like to go forwardand say my doctor said I have
(11:58):
mild anxiety and mild depression, right?
Or I have this mental healthissue.
I'm confessing here, I'madmitting that I feel like, well
, nobody really wants to hearabout that.
I really shouldn't burdenpeople with that.
You know that's just somethingI got to work through on my own,
and so I feel like there's astigma there where we don't even
(12:20):
share that with the churchbecause we feel like we ought to
just be able to get over it.
Marie Stroughter (12:25):
When you are under that scrutiny, under the
microscope, get over it.
When you are under thatscrutiny, under the microscope
there are members of thecongregation.
I think if anyone listening tothis were to look around, it's
generally the same group ofpeople that are involved in most
of teaching Bible classes.
Whatever it might be right,there's that core group of
people and so people tend tothink that if you are strong,
(12:48):
you don't need the support thatyou lead, for example, and that
you don't need strength.
But I think people who arestrong I mean the scripture that
says iron sharpens.
Iron is there for a reason thatwe all need to support each
other.
And we tend to look at thebrothers and sisters that you
know tend to come forward withthe same sin over and over and
over or whatever it might be,and sisters that you know tend
(13:08):
to come forward with the samesin over and over and over or
whatever it might be, or thatyou know really have some unique
challenges.
But how often do we pray forour elders' families, deacons'
families, preachers' families,whoever it might be?
You don't know what goes onbehind the scenes, how often
(13:31):
they're called on to do things,and you know, 24 hours a day,
which is a joy to serve othersDon't get me wrong, but need
that support and they struggletoo, just like anyone else.
We're human, just like anyone,so anything that you know, you
who are listening, go through.
Our families do too.
BT Irwin (13:51):
So how much would you be willing to share about your
own mental health story, marie?
This ministry that you're doingnow grew out of your own mental
health story, and so what couldyou tell us about that?
You've alluded to it a coupleof times already in this
conversation.
Marie Stroughter (14:10):
Well, my very earliest memories are fraught
with anxiety.
I mean from very earlychildhood kindergarten actually
I had horrific school anxiety,to the point where now, as an
adult and having had a number ofdiagnoses, I can see it for
what it was.
(14:31):
It was a full-fledged panicattack.
I mean hysteria where I justcould not function.
And OCD is an anxiety-baseddisorder.
It is where the amygdala hasthe fight or flight switch
constantly set to on.
And if you look at scans, ofbrains you can see someone who
has O fight or flight switchconstantly set to on.
And if you look at scans ofbrains, you can see someone who
(14:52):
has OCD or ADHD or PTSD or someof these other conditions, and
you can see where the areas arevery different from a brain that
is a typical brain, someone whodoesn't have these conditions.
So the amygdala is broken.
So that means there's thisstate of hyper arousal that
(15:12):
doesn't ever go away, where youthink that your life is in
danger and so you're just onguard, hyper vigilant, and it is
an exhausting way to live, andso my very earliest memories are
having that full-fledged panicattack around school.
I still suffer from socialanxiety, even though now I have
(15:34):
the formal diagnoses of OCD asthe anxiety base.
But also there's the chronicdepression.
I was bullied.
Shortly after that, there werethree years where I was in
school where I was bullied tothe point of being beaten up and
harassed every day.
And it wasn't in our schoolclimate now, where cyberbullying
(15:55):
is a bad thing and you reportit to your teachers, you know
snitch kind of thing.
And so I was bullied for threeyears.
And so I remember coming homefrom school around 11 years old
and just crying all afternoonfrom school, around 11 years old
and just crying all afternoonjust crying.
So I've got my formal diagnoses, like you did in college for
depression, but it would stillbe a couple decades yet before I
(16:19):
got the OCD diagnosis andthat's pretty hard.
BT Irwin (16:25):
So how have you worked through this and how has God
led you through this?
And I'm trying to ask this in avery particular way.
I mentioned my ADHD diagnosis.
I suffered from debilitatingpanic attacks for a stretch of
years where I couldn't evenleave my room, leave my room.
(16:46):
So I can imagine just a littlebit what that's like, having
gone through it myself, and whatI can say is it doesn't ever
really leave you, right.
I never tell anybody.
Well, I'm cured, that stuff'sall gone.
(17:11):
Now I'm totally over that.
God delivered me.
I still live with it, but Ilive with it, and God has been
gracious to me.
And so how have you, how hasGod walked with you through this
?
This is a part of you, this isa part of who you are and it's
part of what makes you who youare.
How has God walked with you andhow has the church been a part
of you, learning how to liveyour best life being who you are
?
Marie Stroughter (17:31):
So that verse, my grace, is sufficient for you
I take as my verse.
I really do believe that Goddoes work with imperfect people.
He has always worked throughimperfect people, because there
is no one who is perfect.
But you know, I was talking tomy youngest son, who has ADHD
(17:52):
and we were talking about, insome ways it's kind of like a
superpower.
There are some blessings inthis condition, with OCD, that
anxiety that doesn't want you toever forget it.
I am very detail oriented andoften you know I'm very quick to
perform tasks and sometimesit's to my own detriment because
people think I'm a lot moreorganized and efficient than I
(18:14):
really am.
That it's the anxiety that'sfueling that, rather than any
kind of efficacy on my part orwhatever it might be.
So there are blessings inherentin it and I've learned to
embrace those.
I've learned to find thosenuggets where it has helped me.
But also, as I mentioned in thepre-show where you and I were
(18:36):
talking, my two youngestchildren were adopted through
Children's Homes.
I want to give them a plug.
They are affiliated with theBrotherhood.
Any good that you can do forChildren's Homes, please look
them up in Paragould, help themout.
They do wonderful work.
But I did adopt my two youngestchildren and both of them do
have mental health conditionsand so I think it was when we
(18:59):
adopted them that I reallyembraced the mantle of the
mental health challenges that Ihad, because I said, if I had to
go through them, I felt blessedin the sense that it helped me
to be able to better relate andbetter support them and
understand what they're goingthrough, because, as I mentioned
, I didn't feel like I got thatfrom the caregivers and adults
(19:23):
in my life going through it.
But my kids feel that supportand understanding from me and so
if I had to go through it, itwas a blessing.
BT Irwin (19:35):
So that's your own mental health story.
You mentioned at the top of theconversation that one in four
Americans have some mentalhealth issue that they're going
through.
You've been very involved inyour congregations over the
years and you mentioned thatwhen you're an elder's family or
(19:55):
a deacon's family or aminister's family, you know a
lot about the people in thechurch that maybe others don't
know.
So tell us about kind of theneed that you have seen among
the folks in the pews over theyears working in congregations.
What kinds of things have youfound out about the people that
(20:16):
you go to church with and someof the mental health issues that
they're confronting in theirlives?
Marie Stroughter (20:21):
The gamut, miscarriages, women who have
gone through miscarriages, as Ihave, have been able to counsel
and I would consider that on thesituational end of things, so
anything that you could name, asI said, the continuum of
(20:42):
situational issues all the waythrough serious mental health
diagnoses involvinghospitalizations I have been
involved with and counseledpeople through and helped with,
and so it is truly an issue andI think that we need to be more
aware of people.
You know when Jesus talkedabout how you know well, when
(21:06):
did we see you naked?
When did we see you hungry?
When did we see you naked?
When did we see you hungry?
When did we see you?
I think that that's one of thosesituations where there are
people who feel in thecongregation, invisible, as you
alluded to, where you felt likeyou couldn't tell people what
was going on with you, and thatwas a situation that could have
used prayer, where you couldhave used support, someone to
stand alongside you.
These are situations where wecould pray for people and we
(21:32):
don't because we don't knowabout it, because of the stigma
around talking about some ofthose issues.
BT Irwin (21:39):
So just because you see a need doesn't mean you have
to be the person to dosomething about it.
But you did see a need forhelping people work toward and
maintain mental health and youdecided that it should be you to
do something about it.
How did God call and equip youto join God in this ministry?
Marie Stroughter (22:00):
Well, I'll tell you this VT, it was really
truly not out of any sort ofsense of altruism.
I had several significantlosses within a very short span
of time Two months, three months.
I had a number of verysignificant losses and needed a
(22:21):
space to process.
I start the day either readingscripture or posting some
scripture, just something tostart your day off with the
right thoughts, because, as youmay know, when you start the day
off wrong, it tends to justkind of snowball.
And so I just thought focusingon scripture, focusing on God,
focusing something positive tohold on to for your day, might
(22:45):
be helpful.
It was helpful for me toprocess these losses.
Maybe it's helpful for others,and I got some feedback pretty
early on that it was helpful.
BT Irwin (22:56):
So you put out a Motivational Moments or Momo
podcast episode every day orevery weekday.
Marie Stroughter (23:06):
Every weekday.
That's a lot of work.
That's a lot of work.
I don't think people know.
BT Irwin (23:13):
So how do you keep fresh stuff flowing from?
You to your listeners.
Marie Stroughter (23:20):
You know it's, it's hard.
Uh, I, I'm, I, my muse, if youwill, uh, is a very reclusive
muse.
Uh, she doesn't appear always,and so I can't batch episodes,
even though they're five minutes, I can't batch them.
It's like law and order, tink,tink, ripped from the headlines
(23:45):
of my life.
So whatever is going on in mylife, you will hear about it,
and so I tend to really talk.
I'm very vulnerable, very open.
I talk about OCD, I talk aboutthe low frustration, tolerance.
You know, I talk about a lot ofdifferent things and I'm very
(24:07):
open, very vulnerable, because Idon't think that you can have
these conversations without thattransparency in yourself, so
that other people I think otherpeople, as we talked about look
at you on the outside as kind ofpretty, put together, pretty
articulate.
But you don't seem like youlook at you on the outside as
kind of pretty, put together,pretty articulate.
You don't seem like you'rementally ill, you know kind of
thing, and so it is to give it aface of, as I said, the people
(24:29):
that you worship with.
You're in a congregation of youknow a couple hundred.
Then you're dealing with 50people.
Who are those 50?
Could you name them?
You probably couldn't, becausethey don't look any different
than you do.
So I wanted to show that, eventhough there are times where I
do feel you know pretty outthere and pretty different, that
(24:52):
generally speaking, unless youreally really know my life, you
may not know some of thesethings, and to show that average
everyday one in four person,that isn't on the extreme end of
the continuum that we talkedabout.
BT Irwin (25:09):
What do you hope God will do with this podcast and
with your ministry?
What do you hope God will dofor God's people and those who
are seeking hope as they may bestruggling with mental health?
Marie Stroughter (25:28):
Every day, before I get in front of this
microphone, I pray to God aboutthe episode and I always say,
all of thee, none of me, all ofthee, none of me.
I really do believe that if itis something that he wants me to
continue, he will make the wayfor it to continue, and if it's
(25:49):
not, he will close that door.
So as long as he continues tokeep it open, I will continue to
do this until I can't do itanymore, or I don't believe it
is something that is the pathfor me anymore.
I am getting older, maybelooking at retirement at some
point, so I have a little bitmore time.
(26:11):
It's hard working as I do anddoing this on top of that, plus
the work that we do for thechurch.
So you know, as you mentioned,it is time consuming.
But I would like to grow thepodcast because I do believe
that there are people that arestruggling silently, that don't
(26:31):
feel that they have someone thatthey can relate to, someone
that they can talk to.
But here's this voice thatcomes over the airwaves every
weekday to tell you you're notalone, you can do it.
You can just get through today,don't worry about tomorrow,
don't worry about next week.
Just get through today.
Come on, we're going to talkabout it, let's just process it.
BT Irwin (26:50):
We are going to put the links to the Momo podcast
and Momo 634 in the show notesso you can check that out.
Marie Stroughter (26:56):
You can check that out If someone's listening
to this today, marie and theythink they or someone they know
is struggling with mental health.
What are your parting words tothem?
Well, first of all, I would bethere for that person.
Let them know that you arethere, if you really are there.
I know a lot of times peoplesay, well, call me anytime.
(27:18):
That's kind of something thatwe do say, but I say that and I
mean it.
So offer what you can, whetherit's watching someone's children
for a few minutes so they cannap or bathe or do something, a
care package, giving them dinner, whatever it might be to help,
but ask them what can I do tosupport?
You might be to help, but askthem what can I do to support
(27:43):
you?
As I mentioned, I have someepisodes that talk about what to
say, what not to say.
Just be there, show up.
But if it is a situation wheresomeone is making statements
about self-harm or those sortsof things, there's 988, the
suicide crisis line, I believeit's 988.
But call a suicide crisis linesomeone who is a professional.
(28:04):
Get them to see the need forprofessional help, that sort of
thing.
I am not a counselor, my majorwas psychology, but I am not a
practitioner.
I'm not a licensed practitionerand I'm pretty open about that
on the show, but it does needthe, just as if you had diabetes
(28:25):
or high blood pressure, anysort of thing.
Talk to someone who is amedical care professional If you
don't like the idea ofmedication, someone who is a
naturopath or something likethat.
We have God's pharmacyavailable to us.
There are a lot of herbs andsupplements and those sorts of
things that I found helpfulbecause medications have not
(28:47):
worked for me traditionally, butthere are some supplements that
are very helpful.
But do consult with someone whomight be able to assist you
professionally.
There are online support groups.
There are Christian supportgroups.
There are Christian supportgroups.
There are Christian mentalhealth counselors.
So if you find that you are inneed or know someone who is in
(29:09):
need, urge them to getprofessional help and get
diagnosed.
BT Irwin (29:15):
Well, marie Stratter is founder and host of the
Motivational Moments or MOMO forshort podcast that comes out
every weekday.
We'll put a link to that in theshow notes.
Marie, thank you for opening upto all of us today, not only
with your own story, but withyour ministry of compassion and
love to so many of us who needit.
Grace and peace to you.
Marie Stroughter (29:37):
Thank you so much, bt to you.
Thank you so much, bt.
I really appreciate you foroffering to have me on the
podcast, and to all yourlisteners for tuning in today
and for the Christian Chroniclefor taking note of this
particular important issue.
BT Irwin (29:51):
It's been our pleasure , thank you.
We hope that something youheard in this episode encouraged
, enlightened or enriched you insome way.
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Holly Linden (30:44):
The Christian Chronicle Podcast is a
production of the ChristianChronicle Inc.
Informing and inspiring Churchof Christ congregations, members
and ministries around the worldsince 1943.
The Christian Chronicle'sagingEditor is Audrey Jackson,
editor-in-chief Bobby Ross Jrand President and CEO Eric
(31:06):
Trigestad.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted
and edited by BT Irwin and isproduced by James Flanagan in
Detroit, michigan, usa.
Welcome to the Christian Chronicle Podcast.
We are bringing you the storyshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
Here is our host, BT Irwin.
BT Irwin (00:14):
Family and friends, neighbors and, most of all,
strangers.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle Podcast.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
According to the latestresearch, about one in four
Americans and one in eightpersons worldwide is living with
mental illness in some form.
(00:36):
So the odds are strong thatsomeone sitting next to you in
the pew on Sunday morning isstruggling with mental health.
It may even be the person youleast expect, the one who is
always smiling and seems to haveit all together.
Our guest today, marie Strotter,may have been one such
Christian that is active,involved and leading by example
(00:58):
at church, but struggling withmental health all the same.
Over the last 20-plus years, shehas been an active member of
Church of Christ congregationsin California and Texas, where
she is now a member of theWestside Church of Christ in
Killeen.
In addition to raising andhomeschooling three kids, two
adopted, she also threw herselfinto the many kinds of volunteer
(01:21):
activities that devotedChristian mothers and wives
often do for the church.
But even as she did so much tolift the lives of so many in her
circle, marie struggled withmental health.
In a minute you'll hear herstory in her own voice.
Not only that you'll hear howMarie is turning her own mental
health challenges into aministry to those who also bear
(01:42):
this burden while trying to livethe Christ life and, as I said
a moment ago, there are many whobear this burden, myself
included.
Marie is here to tell us herstory and talk about how she
joined God in a ministry tothose who are living with mental
illness.
Marie, thank you for opening upyour life and ministry to us
today.
Marie Stroughter (02:02):
Thank you so much for having me.
BT Irwin (02:04):
Okay, well, let's start by defining a key term for
our conversation.
What do we mean by mentalhealth or mental illness?
I think maybe Christianssometimes interpret these words
as meaning crazy, not crazy, orderanged or not deranged, that
kind of thing.
What are we talking about whenwe talk about mental illness and
its converse, mental health?
Marie Stroughter (02:26):
Well, given that one in four people suffer
from some sort of mood disorderor mental health condition, the
likelihood that you know someonewho does have one of these
conditions is pretty high.
And I see it more as acontinuum, if you will.
(02:47):
On one end you have sort ofsituational issues like a death
or a loss of some sort, or theloss of a job or a divorce, a
move, those sorts of things that, generally speaking, with time
and sometimes therapy ormedication, clear up.
Then you have sort of thelow-grade dysthymia, which is
(03:11):
the kind of common cold ofdepression, which is this really
low-grade depression that runsin the background.
And then you have the fullcontinuum through neurodivergent
conditions such as autism.
Continuum through neurodivergentconditions such as autism,
those sorts of things, all theway to the things that most
people probably think of whenthey think of mental illness,
(03:32):
like schizophrenia or some ofthe other more obvious types of
mental illness, where people saythings that don't have a
semblance of where they'redisconnected from reality.
Things that don't have asemblance of where they're
disconnected from reality, butgenerally speaking that one in
four.
If you are in a smallercongregation, say, of 100 people
, that's 25 people and if you'velooked around, you know, or a
(04:01):
larger congregation of 300people, that's 75 people.
You're probably not going tosee the more extreme cases.
You're probably going to seemore of the lower grade or
situational things such as mooddisorders, those kinds of things
.
So there is, I believe, acontinuum and with those
statistics the odds, as I said,are pretty high that you know
someone, and that's why it'spretty disturbing to me that we
(04:24):
don't discuss it much more thanwe do and the fact that these
types of issues tend to leadsometimes to other issues, such
as addictions, where people aretrying to mask the symptoms of,
let's say, adhd or some othersort of issue, mental health
issue.
They tend to mask them withaddictive behaviors.
BT Irwin (04:48):
Tell me about how your understanding of mental health
and mental illness has changedor developed through the years.
Marie Stroughter (04:56):
I wouldn't say that it's perhaps changed.
I think that maybe time haschanged.
Think that maybe time haschanged.
I'm 60 and I come from thegeneration after where talking?
about mental health and mentalhealth issues just was not done
and so I grew up not having anissue talking about ADHD.
(05:20):
I have a cousin who has ADHD,those kinds of things.
That was pretty, I think,standard.
But the generation before didnot do that.
So parents, caregivers aroundme, it was kind of the suck it
up and lift your stuff up byyour own bootstraps sort of
(05:40):
generation and that wasn't veryhelpful for me.
I was a bit of a handful, so Ineeded a little bit more support
than that.
So I think, having come fromthat experience where I didn't
get exactly what I needed fromthose around me because I don't
think they were able to do thatculturally, I think that that
(06:07):
led me more to speaking out and,as you mentioned, having been a
Christian in the church for awhile, going to services with a
lot of those older folks thatdidn't talk about it, and you
know we lived through the GreatDepression, so you know we lived
through all these reallydifficult times and you know you
(06:33):
young whippersnapper just youknow, buckle up.
So I did hear a lot of reallyhurtful things and, as you
mentioned, being a leader in thechurch, my husband was a deacon
and is now an elder, as beingunder the microscope, I often
heard hurtful comments again,such as the you know, buck up,
it's kind of all in your head,which it is literally all in
your head, others.
(07:00):
So that's kind of notnecessarily that my views have
changed, but my militancy, ifyou will, in educating others.
Because those comments whenyou're dealing with the
depression and you know this,given your own situation you're
stuffing down a lot of your ownfeelings and trying to mask and
(07:22):
fit in already and the mentalload is pretty heavy already
that you're carrying and then tonot want, you're worried about
people thinking that you'reweird or crazy or deranged, some
of those other things, and thatyou're meeting your load in
helping with congregationalthings, whatever it might be,
and then you've got these, uh,mischaracterizations or
(07:45):
misinformation as well, and it'sjust a lot.
I found that it was a lot for meto handle and so I felt that
the need to start talking aboutit and really educating people
and that their comments weren'tnecessarily helpful.
I don't think it came from aplace of bad intention.
I think part of it wasculturally again, you know, we
don't talk about those thingsfrom that generation but also I
(08:10):
think that as humans we want tostep in and speak and comfort
other people, but we don't knowwhat to say, and so it's kind of
a Job's friends situation whereyou know you compound the
situation rather than helping it.
BT Irwin (08:27):
Did you ever get the?
You know you talked about thegeneration.
That'd be like you're depressed.
I lived through the greatdepression, but then I'm 49.
So people that were a littlecloser to my age.
There's kind of this thingwhere, well, you should have the
joy of the Lord and the peacethat passeth, understanding you
(08:49):
ought to be able to pray thisaway.
I mean, did you ever get thatkind of pressure too, from
well-meaning Christians thatfelt like, hey, if you prayed
harder or just submitted more tothe peace of Christ, all of
this would just go away?
Marie Stroughter (09:03):
That right there.
That statement is probably theone that made me the angriest
and had me speaking out becauseI felt honestly pretty angry
about it.
If you think about it, we don'tsay that to people with cancer,
we don't say that to peoplewith heart conditions or that
have mobility issues or that aresuffering dementia.
(09:25):
And would prayer help thosesituations?
Of course prayer helps everysituation.
However, I think people whohave mental health issues
probably pray more than anyoneelse because, as I said, that
mental load, that masking,trying to do it all with OCD
(09:46):
such as I, have that anxiety.
You know I don't want to forgetanything, so I tend to
interrupt because I don't wantto forget saying something or
you know, whatever it might be,that anxiety drives so much, and
so I tend to pray a lot, and sothat was kind of insulting.
(10:07):
Of course prayer does help, butwe don't say it in other
situations and I almost went ona rant the other day because I
was pretty upset.
I have a couple of friends whoare dealing with hospitalization
issues and I felt like you know, you can't really I'm not
saying you do it to get sympathy, but if I were to say I was
(10:30):
diagnosed with breast cancer,people would be, oh, I'm praying
for you, I'm so sorry to hearthat.
Or if I say I lost, you know, arelative, I'm praying for you.
But if I say, oh, you know, myhusband was diagnosed with
schizophrenia, people are like,okay, you know that kind of
thing.
And so I think you know.
A couple of episodes that I'vedone on the podcast have to do
(10:52):
with things not to say andthings to say to be helpful, and
if you can't think of anythingto say, it's like our parents
taught us don't say anything atall.
I was dealing with someonerecently who was going through
some issues with a family memberand I just put my arm around
her and sat with her and cried.
BT Irwin (11:13):
One of the things that you're touching on here is
there's a stigma.
So you talked aboutschizophrenia, for example, and
there's a strong stigma attachedto that.
You know, when we've had peoplein our family that had cancer,
I would go forward and ask forprayer.
That had cancer, I would goforward and ask for prayer.
At our congregation we have astrong prayer ministry where
(11:33):
there are people standing at thefour corners of the auditorium
and you can go every week andask for prayer if you want.
And there were times where Iwould go forward almost every
week to ask for prayer for thesefamily members who had cancer.
Or you know someone in our ownfamily who had job loss or was
having trouble in school,something like that.
But I feel like to go forwardand say my doctor said I have
(11:58):
mild anxiety and mild depression, right?
Or I have this mental healthissue.
I'm confessing here, I'madmitting that I feel like, well
, nobody really wants to hearabout that.
I really shouldn't burdenpeople with that.
You know that's just somethingI got to work through on my own,
and so I feel like there's astigma there where we don't even
(12:20):
share that with the churchbecause we feel like we ought to
just be able to get over it.
Marie Stroughter (12:25):
When you are under that scrutiny, under the
microscope, get over it.
When you are under thatscrutiny, under the microscope
there are members of thecongregation.
I think if anyone listening tothis were to look around, it's
generally the same group ofpeople that are involved in most
of teaching Bible classes.
Whatever it might be right,there's that core group of
people and so people tend tothink that if you are strong,
(12:48):
you don't need the support thatyou lead, for example, and that
you don't need strength.
But I think people who arestrong I mean the scripture that
says iron sharpens.
Iron is there for a reason thatwe all need to support each
other.
And we tend to look at thebrothers and sisters that you
know tend to come forward withthe same sin over and over and
over or whatever it might be,and sisters that you know tend
(13:08):
to come forward with the samesin over and over and over or
whatever it might be, or thatyou know really have some unique
challenges.
But how often do we pray forour elders' families, deacons'
families, preachers' families,whoever it might be?
You don't know what goes onbehind the scenes, how often
(13:31):
they're called on to do things,and you know, 24 hours a day,
which is a joy to serve othersDon't get me wrong, but need
that support and they struggletoo, just like anyone else.
We're human, just like anyone,so anything that you know, you
who are listening, go through.
Our families do too.
BT Irwin (13:51):
So how much would you be willing to share about your
own mental health story, marie?
This ministry that you're doingnow grew out of your own mental
health story, and so what couldyou tell us about that?
You've alluded to it a coupleof times already in this
conversation.
Marie Stroughter (14:10):
Well, my very earliest memories are fraught
with anxiety.
I mean from very earlychildhood kindergarten actually
I had horrific school anxiety,to the point where now, as an
adult and having had a number ofdiagnoses, I can see it for
what it was.
(14:31):
It was a full-fledged panicattack.
I mean hysteria where I justcould not function.
And OCD is an anxiety-baseddisorder.
It is where the amygdala hasthe fight or flight switch
constantly set to on.
And if you look at scans, ofbrains you can see someone who
has O fight or flight switchconstantly set to on.
And if you look at scans ofbrains, you can see someone who
(14:52):
has OCD or ADHD or PTSD or someof these other conditions, and
you can see where the areas arevery different from a brain that
is a typical brain, someone whodoesn't have these conditions.
So the amygdala is broken.
So that means there's thisstate of hyper arousal that
(15:12):
doesn't ever go away, where youthink that your life is in
danger and so you're just onguard, hyper vigilant, and it is
an exhausting way to live, andso my very earliest memories are
having that full-fledged panicattack around school.
I still suffer from socialanxiety, even though now I have
(15:34):
the formal diagnoses of OCD asthe anxiety base.
But also there's the chronicdepression.
I was bullied.
Shortly after that, there werethree years where I was in
school where I was bullied tothe point of being beaten up and
harassed every day.
And it wasn't in our schoolclimate now, where cyberbullying
(15:55):
is a bad thing and you reportit to your teachers, you know
snitch kind of thing.
And so I was bullied for threeyears.
And so I remember coming homefrom school around 11 years old
and just crying all afternoonfrom school, around 11 years old
and just crying all afternoonjust crying.
So I've got my formal diagnoses, like you did in college for
depression, but it would stillbe a couple decades yet before I
(16:19):
got the OCD diagnosis andthat's pretty hard.
BT Irwin (16:25):
So how have you worked through this and how has God
led you through this?
And I'm trying to ask this in avery particular way.
I mentioned my ADHD diagnosis.
I suffered from debilitatingpanic attacks for a stretch of
years where I couldn't evenleave my room, leave my room.
(16:46):
So I can imagine just a littlebit what that's like, having
gone through it myself, and whatI can say is it doesn't ever
really leave you, right.
I never tell anybody.
Well, I'm cured, that stuff'sall gone.
(17:11):
Now I'm totally over that.
God delivered me.
I still live with it, but Ilive with it, and God has been
gracious to me.
And so how have you, how hasGod walked with you through this
?
This is a part of you, this isa part of who you are and it's
part of what makes you who youare.
How has God walked with you andhow has the church been a part
of you, learning how to liveyour best life being who you are
?
Marie Stroughter (17:31):
So that verse, my grace, is sufficient for you
I take as my verse.
I really do believe that Goddoes work with imperfect people.
He has always worked throughimperfect people, because there
is no one who is perfect.
But you know, I was talking tomy youngest son, who has ADHD
(17:52):
and we were talking about, insome ways it's kind of like a
superpower.
There are some blessings inthis condition, with OCD, that
anxiety that doesn't want you toever forget it.
I am very detail oriented andoften you know I'm very quick to
perform tasks and sometimesit's to my own detriment because
people think I'm a lot moreorganized and efficient than I
(18:14):
really am.
That it's the anxiety that'sfueling that, rather than any
kind of efficacy on my part orwhatever it might be.
So there are blessings inherentin it and I've learned to
embrace those.
I've learned to find thosenuggets where it has helped me.
But also, as I mentioned in thepre-show where you and I were
(18:36):
talking, my two youngestchildren were adopted through
Children's Homes.
I want to give them a plug.
They are affiliated with theBrotherhood.
Any good that you can do forChildren's Homes, please look
them up in Paragould, help themout.
They do wonderful work.
But I did adopt my two youngestchildren and both of them do
have mental health conditionsand so I think it was when we
(18:59):
adopted them that I reallyembraced the mantle of the
mental health challenges that Ihad, because I said, if I had to
go through them, I felt blessedin the sense that it helped me
to be able to better relate andbetter support them and
understand what they're goingthrough, because, as I mentioned
, I didn't feel like I got thatfrom the caregivers and adults
(19:23):
in my life going through it.
But my kids feel that supportand understanding from me and so
if I had to go through it, itwas a blessing.
BT Irwin (19:35):
So that's your own mental health story.
You mentioned at the top of theconversation that one in four
Americans have some mentalhealth issue that they're going
through.
You've been very involved inyour congregations over the
years and you mentioned thatwhen you're an elder's family or
(19:55):
a deacon's family or aminister's family, you know a
lot about the people in thechurch that maybe others don't
know.
So tell us about kind of theneed that you have seen among
the folks in the pews over theyears working in congregations.
What kinds of things have youfound out about the people that
(20:16):
you go to church with and someof the mental health issues that
they're confronting in theirlives?
Marie Stroughter (20:21):
The gamut, miscarriages, women who have
gone through miscarriages, as Ihave, have been able to counsel
and I would consider that on thesituational end of things, so
anything that you could name, asI said, the continuum of
(20:42):
situational issues all the waythrough serious mental health
diagnoses involvinghospitalizations I have been
involved with and counseledpeople through and helped with,
and so it is truly an issue andI think that we need to be more
aware of people.
You know when Jesus talkedabout how you know well, when
(21:06):
did we see you naked?
When did we see you hungry?
When did we see you naked?
When did we see you hungry?
When did we see you?
I think that that's one of thosesituations where there are
people who feel in thecongregation, invisible, as you
alluded to, where you felt likeyou couldn't tell people what
was going on with you, and thatwas a situation that could have
used prayer, where you couldhave used support, someone to
stand alongside you.
These are situations where wecould pray for people and we
(21:32):
don't because we don't knowabout it, because of the stigma
around talking about some ofthose issues.
BT Irwin (21:39):
So just because you see a need doesn't mean you have
to be the person to dosomething about it.
But you did see a need forhelping people work toward and
maintain mental health and youdecided that it should be you to
do something about it.
How did God call and equip youto join God in this ministry?
Marie Stroughter (22:00):
Well, I'll tell you this VT, it was really
truly not out of any sort ofsense of altruism.
I had several significantlosses within a very short span
of time Two months, three months.
I had a number of verysignificant losses and needed a
(22:21):
space to process.
I start the day either readingscripture or posting some
scripture, just something tostart your day off with the
right thoughts, because, as youmay know, when you start the day
off wrong, it tends to justkind of snowball.
And so I just thought focusingon scripture, focusing on God,
focusing something positive tohold on to for your day, might
(22:45):
be helpful.
It was helpful for me toprocess these losses.
Maybe it's helpful for others,and I got some feedback pretty
early on that it was helpful.
BT Irwin (22:56):
So you put out a Motivational Moments or Momo
podcast episode every day orevery weekday.
Marie Stroughter (23:06):
Every weekday.
That's a lot of work.
That's a lot of work.
I don't think people know.
BT Irwin (23:13):
So how do you keep fresh stuff flowing from?
You to your listeners.
Marie Stroughter (23:20):
You know it's, it's hard.
Uh, I, I'm, I, my muse, if youwill, uh, is a very reclusive
muse.
Uh, she doesn't appear always,and so I can't batch episodes,
even though they're five minutes, I can't batch them.
It's like law and order, tink,tink, ripped from the headlines
(23:45):
of my life.
So whatever is going on in mylife, you will hear about it,
and so I tend to really talk.
I'm very vulnerable, very open.
I talk about OCD, I talk aboutthe low frustration, tolerance.
You know, I talk about a lot ofdifferent things and I'm very
(24:07):
open, very vulnerable, because Idon't think that you can have
these conversations without thattransparency in yourself, so
that other people I think otherpeople, as we talked about look
at you on the outside as kind ofpretty, put together, pretty
articulate.
But you don't seem like youlook at you on the outside as
kind of pretty, put together,pretty articulate.
You don't seem like you'rementally ill, you know kind of
thing, and so it is to give it aface of, as I said, the people
(24:29):
that you worship with.
You're in a congregation of youknow a couple hundred.
Then you're dealing with 50people.
Who are those 50?
Could you name them?
You probably couldn't, becausethey don't look any different
than you do.
So I wanted to show that, eventhough there are times where I
do feel you know pretty outthere and pretty different, that
(24:52):
generally speaking, unless youreally really know my life, you
may not know some of thesethings, and to show that average
everyday one in four person,that isn't on the extreme end of
the continuum that we talkedabout.
BT Irwin (25:09):
What do you hope God will do with this podcast and
with your ministry?
What do you hope God will dofor God's people and those who
are seeking hope as they may bestruggling with mental health?
Marie Stroughter (25:28):
Every day, before I get in front of this
microphone, I pray to God aboutthe episode and I always say,
all of thee, none of me, all ofthee, none of me.
I really do believe that if itis something that he wants me to
continue, he will make the wayfor it to continue, and if it's
(25:49):
not, he will close that door.
So as long as he continues tokeep it open, I will continue to
do this until I can't do itanymore, or I don't believe it
is something that is the pathfor me anymore.
I am getting older, maybelooking at retirement at some
point, so I have a little bitmore time.
(26:11):
It's hard working as I do anddoing this on top of that, plus
the work that we do for thechurch.
So you know, as you mentioned,it is time consuming.
But I would like to grow thepodcast because I do believe
that there are people that arestruggling silently, that don't
(26:31):
feel that they have someone thatthey can relate to, someone
that they can talk to.
But here's this voice thatcomes over the airwaves every
weekday to tell you you're notalone, you can do it.
You can just get through today,don't worry about tomorrow,
don't worry about next week.
Just get through today.
Come on, we're going to talkabout it, let's just process it.
BT Irwin (26:50):
We are going to put the links to the Momo podcast
and Momo 634 in the show notesso you can check that out.
Marie Stroughter (26:56):
You can check that out If someone's listening
to this today, marie and theythink they or someone they know
is struggling with mental health.
What are your parting words tothem?
Well, first of all, I would bethere for that person.
Let them know that you arethere, if you really are there.
I know a lot of times peoplesay, well, call me anytime.
(27:18):
That's kind of something thatwe do say, but I say that and I
mean it.
So offer what you can, whetherit's watching someone's children
for a few minutes so they cannap or bathe or do something, a
care package, giving them dinner, whatever it might be to help,
but ask them what can I do tosupport?
You might be to help, but askthem what can I do to support
(27:43):
you?
As I mentioned, I have someepisodes that talk about what to
say, what not to say.
Just be there, show up.
But if it is a situation wheresomeone is making statements
about self-harm or those sortsof things, there's 988, the
suicide crisis line, I believeit's 988.
But call a suicide crisis linesomeone who is a professional.
(28:04):
Get them to see the need forprofessional help, that sort of
thing.
I am not a counselor, my majorwas psychology, but I am not a
practitioner.
I'm not a licensed practitionerand I'm pretty open about that
on the show, but it does needthe, just as if you had diabetes
(28:25):
or high blood pressure, anysort of thing.
Talk to someone who is amedical care professional If you
don't like the idea ofmedication, someone who is a
naturopath or something likethat.
We have God's pharmacyavailable to us.
There are a lot of herbs andsupplements and those sorts of
things that I found helpfulbecause medications have not
(28:47):
worked for me traditionally, butthere are some supplements that
are very helpful.
But do consult with someone whomight be able to assist you
professionally.
There are online support groups.
There are Christian supportgroups.
There are Christian supportgroups.
There are Christian mentalhealth counselors.
So if you find that you are inneed or know someone who is in
(29:09):
need, urge them to getprofessional help and get
diagnosed.
BT Irwin (29:15):
Well, marie Stratter is founder and host of the
Motivational Moments or MOMO forshort podcast that comes out
every weekday.
We'll put a link to that in theshow notes.
Marie, thank you for opening upto all of us today, not only
with your own story, but withyour ministry of compassion and
love to so many of us who needit.
Grace and peace to you.
Marie Stroughter (29:37):
Thank you so much, bt to you.
Thank you so much, bt.
I really appreciate you foroffering to have me on the
podcast, and to all yourlisteners for tuning in today
and for the Christian Chroniclefor taking note of this
particular important issue.
BT Irwin (29:51):
It's been our pleasure , thank you.
We hope that something youheard in this episode encouraged
, enlightened or enriched you insome way.
If it did, thanks be to God andplease pay it forward.
Subscribe to this podcast andshare it with a friend.
Recommend and review itwherever you listen to your
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Your subscription,recommendation and review help
(30:11):
us reach more people.
Please send your comments,ideas and suggestions to podcast
at christianchronicleorg anddon't forget our ministry to
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(30:34):
Christian Chronicle atchristianchronicleorg.
Slash donate Until next time.
May grace and peace be yours inabundance.
Holly Linden (30:44):
The Christian Chronicle Podcast is a
production of the ChristianChronicle Inc.
Informing and inspiring Churchof Christ congregations, members
and ministries around the worldsince 1943.
The Christian Chronicle'sagingEditor is Audrey Jackson,
editor-in-chief Bobby Ross Jrand President and CEO Eric
(31:06):
Trigestad.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted
and edited by BT Irwin and isproduced by James Flanagan in
Detroit, michigan, usa.
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