March 11, 2025 • 18 mins
More Christians in more parts of the world may sing Chris Tomlin's worship music ('Our God,' 'How Great is Our God,' 'God of Angel Armies') than any other artist alive today. A Grammy Award winner and two-time Songwriter of the Year with more than 7 billion global streams, Tomlin is branching out into film. He is executive producer for the new major motion picture The Last Supper, written and directed by Mario Borrelli and starring Robert Knepper, James Faulkner, and Jamie Ward.
In this episode, he talks about what it is like to be caught up in a global worship movement and why The Last Supper is the right film for right now.
Link to Chris Tomlin's website
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Holly Linden (00:03):
Welcome to the Christian Chronicle Podcast.
We are bringing you the storyshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
Here's our host, BT Irwin.
BT Irwin (00:14):
Family and friends, neighbors and, most of all,
strangers.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle Podcast.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
If you don't know Chris Tomlin,then I bet my next trip to
Chick-fil-A that you know hismusic.
I wouldn't be surprised if yousang some of his music in just
the last few days.
(00:35):
Tomlin may be the most oftensung contemporary artist in
churches in the United States.
He has 21 number one radiosingles, 30 top 10 hits, more
than any other Christian artist,has sold more than 12 million
albums and has more than 7billion that's billion with a B
global streams.
He's won a Grammy, threeBillboard Music Awards, 31 GMA
(00:56):
Dove Awards and is onesongwriter of the year from both
ASCAP and BMI.
Like I said, he wrote songsthat you've probably sung in
church, such as how Great Is OurGod, whom Shall I Fear?
God of Angel Armies and HolyForever.
And somehow he has notexhausted his well of creative
energy.
So he is now entering the worldof film.
He's executive producer of thenew motion picture, the Last
(01:18):
Supper, co-directed and writtenby Mario Borelli and starring
Robert Knepper, james Faulknerand Jamie Ward.
It's in theaters by the timeyou hear this.
Chris, welcome to the Church ofChrist.
Have you ever gotten a taste ofour famous a cappella worship
experience?
Chris Tomlin (01:31):
Oh yeah, man.
Oh yeah, I've had part of my,some of my family's, in the
Church of Christ and I know itvery well and I love that.
BT Irwin (01:40):
Absolutely.
Chris Tomlin (01:41):
I was just at something recently and they had
this and it was a Church ofChrist event and I was playing
at it.
It had this big acapellasinging as well.
It was awesome.
BT Irwin (01:50):
Yeah, I've heard a lot of your songs sung acapella
style over the course of my life.
Chris Tomlin (01:55):
Yeah, it's pretty great.
BT Irwin (01:57):
From what I know about you, you didn't set out to end
up being who you are and doingwhat you're doing.
You didn't even dream about it.
I think you majored in pre-medor physical therapy or something
at Texas A&M.
I know that you are who you areand you're doing what you do.
Do you ever feel like somethingbig and out of control just
kind of picked you up and iscarrying you along kind of like
(02:18):
an out-of-body experience?
Chris Tomlin (02:19):
Oh, yeah, absolutely, man.
That's the story of my life.
You know, I really feel thatit's been these moments, these
kind of marking moments where Icould have never planned this,
could have never dreamed whatGod has done and the
opportunities he's given me, andI would have never thought this
.
I come from a very small littletown in Texas.
We got one Dairy Queen, one RedLight, that was it.
(02:40):
And just you know, if you hadtold me that my life would be
traveling the world playingmusic, I would have never
dreamed that, writing songs andit was.
But.
But I had.
These people came along andbelieved in me at different
points in my life, and then god,just his hand just moving it,
moving mountains really.
(03:01):
uh, for for all of, and so Icount it just.
I'm just so grateful.
I always think of how gratefulI am that God's given me this
life and given me this abilitywith my songs, and it's a
privilege of my life to standthere on stage after stage and
after night and share thesesongs with people.
BT Irwin (03:18):
Uh, I reckon there are a lot of folks in the church of
Christ, uh, who know your songs, but they don't know you, and I
reckon you are more than okaywith that.
I read an article about yoursong how Great Is Our God and
how it has taken on a life ofits own among believers around
the world.
When you write a song and youput it out there, when do you
get the sense that it's not yoursong anymore and that it's
outgrown you?
Yeah, that's what I always prayfor that.
Chris Tomlin (03:38):
The song goes way past me.
That's what I mean by that.
Is that, like you says, peoplejust sitting in church singing a
song they're not thinking aboutoh, this is a Chris Tomlin song
, is it kind of like amazinggrace, right, not that any of my
songs touch that song, but likewhen people sing that song,
they don't think I'm singing aJohn Newton song, right, they
think I'm just singing this hymnthat has become part of the
(04:05):
just.
It's become part of the just,the soundtrack of church.
And so if, if I can have one ortwo songs that ever do that,
that just go like that's sospecial to me because it has
nothing to do with me anymoreand it's just become something
that people sing and and that'swhat I there's been a couple of
songs I feel that have done thatand it's pretty special.
BT Irwin (04:22):
So I imagine some folks think that when you write
a song, you go into a forestglade or you know some room that
looks like Dumbledore study anda heavenly light shines down on
you and, voila, song is born.
But what is the gestation andbirthing process actually like
for a song?
Chris Tomlin (04:38):
That's man.
Every one of them is differentand usually, um these days, it's
uh, it's this.
Right here, I'm like I'msinging something into my phone.
BT Irwin (04:50):
I've got this idea it just comes, I'll be driving.
Chris Tomlin (04:53):
We come in the night and an idea just comes and
there we go.
But it's usually a group ofpeople together.
I have a couple friends that Iget together with and we bring
our ideas, we bring our thoughtsand then we we like how do we
write?
How do we help this?
How do we write this song thatcan find its way into the church
, find its way into songs ofworship?
(05:13):
That's the way.
That's the way I try to write.
I try to write in a way thatpeople can sing.
There's something simple peoplecan sing.
BT Irwin (05:19):
There's something they need to sing.
Chris Tomlin (05:21):
There's something hopefully they want to sing.
It's hopefully something thatthat puts a.
You know it helps people see.
I've always said that I wantedmy songs to help people see more
than just sing.
To let people see the goodnessof God, to see the grace of God,
to see the mercy of God.
Help, their help, open our eyesin a spiritual way you know to
see, and when you see you can'thelp but sing.
(05:42):
That's what I've always said andthe more you see, the more you
sing.
And so the songs, they.
It's a mystery, still a mystery, how they come, but they do
just come.
These little, these little,it's like that, it's like really
fast and it's like that, andit's, at that moment,
inspiration, and then I gottafigure out how to hold on to it
and and develop that out, andit's usually one.
(06:03):
One last thing that, because Icould talk all day on
songwriting, but it's usuallythe most powerful ones,
something out of God's word thatjust jumps out, and I didn't.
It's.
I see it a different way.
It's a verse I read and it'slike, oh, wow, that's powerful.
I want you know something thatcomes out, like I can remember,
in reading Revelation 4, and itsays and they fall down before
(06:23):
Him, they lay their crownsbefore Him, they sing worthy is
the Lamb.
And I just wrote this simple wefall down, we lay our crowns at
the feet of Jesus.
BT Irwin (06:30):
You know, in this little chorus.
Chris Tomlin (06:32):
I was just looking at God's Word, just singing it,
and little did I know this songwould be sung in all churches
around the world.
BT Irwin (06:42):
But it's like they just come in, these little
sparks.
Well, speaking of seeing, let'stalk about the movie the Last
Supper.
It's coming out right aroundthe time that we released this
episode.
My family got to watch apreview of it last night.
We enjoyed it a lot.
You're a musician, so whybranch out and take the risk on
this new medium for you?
How did you get involved withthe Last Supper and why did you
decide this film was the onethat was worth your personal
(07:04):
involvement at this time?
Chris Tomlin (07:05):
Well, yeah, it's like all these things, it's just
like God just directing.
And it was obvious because itstarted with music.
It started with the song andwhen the credits roll, when the
movie comes out, you'll hearthis brand new song.
I wrote no greater love.
You would have thought that Ijust sit and watch the movie and
(07:29):
then wrote the song.
But these guys came to me andsaid, hey, we've got this movie
and would you have a?
You know, a song that couldwork?
And I'm going to show you whatwe're working on.
They show me what we're workingon.
I was like, wow, this isdifferent.
I thought, is it?
When I thought the last serviceis a different Will take and it
and really powerful, and I wasmoved in so many different ways
(07:50):
and I thought, well, I've gotthis song I read a couple months
ago.
I've not played it for anybody.
I got this demo, played it forthem, and the whole team was
like this is the song movie,this is, this is the song songs
called no greater love.
It's John 15.
No greater love than this, thana man lay down his life for his
friends and I.
And so when that kind ofhappened, I was like maybe we
could partner in a greater way.
(08:11):
Maybe this is something that Icould be involved with, because
I loved how theologically strong, how biblically strong this
movie is.
There's so many elements of itthat are just bringing the Bible
to life and I love that, and soI thought you know I can do
this, I can help, I'd love tohelp partner with this and just
more than just a way of justhaving a song in the movie.
Partner with this and just morethan just a way of just having
(08:32):
a song in the movie.
BT Irwin (08:35):
But how can I be a help, be a voice for it?
So, uh, why do you and yourcollaborators on this film
project believe this is theright story, the last supper to
tell right now?
Chris Tomlin (08:41):
Well, I, think the what's compelling to me is it's
obviously when you think of thelast supper, for for for one,
the title last supper think isinteresting because when you
think of a movie of Jesus it'susually the cross or the
resurrection or the birth Right.
Those are the, those are thethings.
That was the big moments, andfor it to focus on the Last
Supper is very interesting to me.
(09:02):
So that caught my attention.
And then how it's told through,really through Peter and Judas,
those kind of big, and Caiaphasand like so Jesus obviously is
the main character of the story,but when you see Judas and
Peter and Caiaphas and yourealize, wow, that is humanity
today.
(09:22):
Nothing has changed.
We all still struggle withbetrayal, denial, power, greed,
doubt, all the things that arein there, and so I was.
I feel like people are going tobe so moved by this, or just
they're going to be.
Their hearts are going to bepierced again because we can all
put ourselves at this table.
These guys were not perfectpeople and they weren't these
(09:47):
saints.
These are like we know we callthem saints now, but they
weren't these perfect saints.
They were like wow, they got itall together.
Jesus chose some guys who, whenhe was at the table with them,
he knew they would betray him.
He knew that they would denyhim, and yet he still said this
is for you.
And it hit me again.
I was like I've been aChristian my whole life, most of
my life, and I thought I don'tthink I've ever really seen it
(10:10):
that, thought of it that way,when Jesus was breaking the
bread and he gave them the cupand he said this is my body,
this is my blood.
Everything changes tonight.
This is a different and this isno longer the lamb.
I am the lamb.
This is my sacrifice, it's foryou.
And yet he knew in just aminute you're going to betray me
, you're going to deny me and Ithink, man, how much, how much,
(10:31):
much, how much is that?
How much of that is in me and Ifeel like I feel like I could
put myself there and just, andit was powerful in that way.
BT Irwin (10:41):
Yeah, Having seen the film, I can tell everybody that
some of the most moving parts ofthe film are the interactions
between Jesus and Judas andJesus and Peter at the last
supper it's.
It's presented very, very well.
So what are y'all hoping willhappen because of this film?
Chris Tomlin (11:00):
I hope people are.
You know, it's a moment in time, right, there's just so much
amazing things coming out andamazing content coming out and
and media coming out for thegospel.
In this amazing moment there'sjust so much, and I love that.
I think it's.
We live in a world where theculture feels so dark and
(11:23):
everybody feels that it feelsthere's so much hatred out there
, so much division, so much fear, so many things and yet and I
think people, whether where theyknow they're not not longing
for this, the forgiveness, themercy, the grace, the love that
is in the gospel, the message ofjesus, and so and what I love
about it being in theaters isthat people will walk in a
(11:43):
theater who would never walk ina church.
And when you put out a film likethis, um, the producer, michael
scott, of this film, he said,of all the when, all the films
he does, all Christian films, hedoes about 40% of the audience
they're not believers that walkinto a film like this.
That's incredible.
That's not happening inchurches.
I doubt 40% of the congregationis not believers in Sunday, so
(12:04):
that's so powerful.
What a moment to.
And maybe people are skepticalof Jesus, like, okay, heard
about him, everybody talks abouthim and maybe people are
skeptical of Jesus, like, okay,heard about him, everybody talks
about him.
What is this all about?
I think people will be struckby this portrayal of him, and
it's done in a beautiful way andit's very biblically grounded.
So I hope people are inspired,their lives are changed.
(12:25):
You know this moment, right,this moment that this film is
about changed the entire world.
This was the moment that theentire world changed, right?
And this message is stillchanging lives today and I
believe it'll change lives whenpeople see it.
BT Irwin (12:40):
Amen.
Well, a lot of Church of Christcongregations have been using
the show the Chosen as acatalyst for discussion and
study, and that's led to a lotof conversation about how much
artists can take license withinspired scripture to create and
present compelling stories thatpeople want to watch in a film
or a TV format.
How did the collaborators onthe Last Supper work through
striking that balance betweenartistic license and scriptural
(13:02):
fidelity?
Chris Tomlin (13:03):
Well, that's what I love about this and that's why
I kind of put my name behind it.
I thought this is sotheologically sound.
When Jesus speaks, there's veryfew lines that he says that
aren't straight from words inred.
I thought that was reallyinteresting and I love that.
So it's like he just brings alland it's, you know, it just
takes all these things he saidin Scripture and the guy who
(13:27):
portrays Jesus.
That's his lines.
And then when you're developingPeter and you're developing
Judas, obviously there's gapsthere of like, okay, we don't
know everything when they werewalking the road.
That we're saying to each other, but so you're creating that
story, right, and so you try tostay as true to it.
I love that.
This just really stays on tothis idea of like, okay, judas,
(13:50):
like he's been with Jesus forthree years, like seeing
everything he's seen, why wouldhe?
Why would he do what he did?
And I love that.
As you know, it's pretty hard towatch.
It's pretty, it's pretty strong, it's pretty strong.
But that that character, thatdemon, that snake, that just was
always speaking to him, just,hey, man, you don't, you know,
(14:12):
you, you don't want this, youdon't want, you don't want this
way.
There's a better way, there's abetter way for you power, greed
, all the things and it's.
And I thought that's a powerfulportrayal, because that's the
same lies that we're being toldtoday, those lies we've been
bombarded with.
So I thought that was it was.
It's pretty dark and and roughwhen it comes to Judas, but I'm
like isn't that what evil is?
(14:33):
I mean it's a, it's a.
I mean it's not some nicelittle fairy saying, oh no, this
, this is like, this is theenemy of the world, coming at
people, trying to distract themfrom Jesus.
And so I thought that was donein a pretty powerful way, cause
I was like, okay, yeah, that'swhat it feels like to me too,
when I have all that stuff andyou know, coming at me.
BT Irwin (14:51):
Yeah, it's very visceral portrayal.
Can't wait for people to see it.
Last question what is the bestthing about being Chris Tomlin
and what's the hardest thingabout being Chris Tomlin?
Chris Tomlin (15:02):
The hardest thing, the best thing is easy being in
my family, being a dad of threegirls, that's the best thing.
I got three little girls in meand that's what's what I.
That's the best thing that everhappened to me, and so love that
.
The hardest thing would bewould be that all the travel it
(15:24):
takes to.
I wish I could be everywhere atonce, but you know, when you're
just, I love playing music, Ilove all the things, but what it
takes being away from thefamily is that takes, that takes
a toll.
Um, so I guess the best andworst is both family that god's
giving his family, and beingaway from them.
(15:44):
But but we all in this togethermy wife, she's incredible and
there's like this is what we do,this is what god's given us to
do, and we know that some daysyou won't, some seasons you
won't be here, some seasons youwill, and that's so.
That's the good and bad.
BT Irwin (16:00):
Well, Chris Tomlin's just a guy from Texas who writes
a few worship songs, but oddsare you've probably sung them
and listened to them in the lastseven days.
If you've been to church andnow you have a chance to go see
a film that he executiveproduced, that would be the Last
Supper in theaters by the timeyou hear this episode.
We'll put a link to Chris'swebsite and to the film in the
show notes.
Chris, thank you for hangingout with the Church of Christ
(16:20):
crowd today.
Chris Tomlin (16:21):
Amen, thank you.
Great, awesome, appreciate it.
Thanks for getting the word outabout this as well.
BT Irwin (16:25):
It's our pleasure.
God bless you.
Chris Tomlin (16:27):
Thank you buddy.
BT Irwin (16:28):
We hope that something you heard in this episode
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(16:49):
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Slash donate Until next time.
May grace and peace be yours inabundance.
Holly Linden (17:12):
The Christian Chronicle Podcast is a
production of the ChristianChronicle Inc.
Informing and inspiring Churchof Christ congregations, members
and ministries around the worldsince 1943.
The Christian Chronicle'smanaging editor is Audrey
Jackson, editor-in-chief BobbyRoss Jr and President and CEO
(17:33):
Eric Trigestad.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted
and edited by BT Irwin and isproduced by James Flanagan in
Detroit, michigan, usa.
I remember the way you calledme friend.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Then I think of your mercy, the scars on your hands.
There's no greater love there,never will be.
You laid down your life forsomeone like me.
No matter how far I run, yourarms are wide enough.
(18:19):
All of my stains are all washedaway.
No, there's no greater love.
There's no greater love.
I know it won't give up.
It never fades, it overflows,it falls like rain, leaves a 99
(18:47):
to save the one.
So I sing your praise.
So I sing there's no greaterlove.
There's no greater love.
I know there's no greater love,never will be.
(19:08):
You brought the chains.
You set me free.
No matter how far I run, yourarms are wide enough.
All of my stains Are all washedaway.
No, there's no greater love.
There's no greater love, I know.
(19:33):
No, there's no greater love, Iknow.
No, there's no greater love.
There's no greater love, I know.
Welcome to the Christian Chronicle Podcast.
We are bringing you the storyshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
Here's our host, BT Irwin.
BT Irwin (00:14):
Family and friends, neighbors and, most of all,
strangers.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle Podcast.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
If you don't know Chris Tomlin,then I bet my next trip to
Chick-fil-A that you know hismusic.
I wouldn't be surprised if yousang some of his music in just
the last few days.
(00:35):
Tomlin may be the most oftensung contemporary artist in
churches in the United States.
He has 21 number one radiosingles, 30 top 10 hits, more
than any other Christian artist,has sold more than 12 million
albums and has more than 7billion that's billion with a B
global streams.
He's won a Grammy, threeBillboard Music Awards, 31 GMA
(00:56):
Dove Awards and is onesongwriter of the year from both
ASCAP and BMI.
Like I said, he wrote songsthat you've probably sung in
church, such as how Great Is OurGod, whom Shall I Fear?
God of Angel Armies and HolyForever.
And somehow he has notexhausted his well of creative
energy.
So he is now entering the worldof film.
He's executive producer of thenew motion picture, the Last
(01:18):
Supper, co-directed and writtenby Mario Borelli and starring
Robert Knepper, james Faulknerand Jamie Ward.
It's in theaters by the timeyou hear this.
Chris, welcome to the Church ofChrist.
Have you ever gotten a taste ofour famous a cappella worship
experience?
Chris Tomlin (01:31):
Oh yeah, man.
Oh yeah, I've had part of my,some of my family's, in the
Church of Christ and I know itvery well and I love that.
BT Irwin (01:40):
Absolutely.
Chris Tomlin (01:41):
I was just at something recently and they had
this and it was a Church ofChrist event and I was playing
at it.
It had this big acapellasinging as well.
It was awesome.
BT Irwin (01:50):
Yeah, I've heard a lot of your songs sung acapella
style over the course of my life.
Chris Tomlin (01:55):
Yeah, it's pretty great.
BT Irwin (01:57):
From what I know about you, you didn't set out to end
up being who you are and doingwhat you're doing.
You didn't even dream about it.
I think you majored in pre-medor physical therapy or something
at Texas A&M.
I know that you are who you areand you're doing what you do.
Do you ever feel like somethingbig and out of control just
kind of picked you up and iscarrying you along kind of like
(02:18):
an out-of-body experience?
Chris Tomlin (02:19):
Oh, yeah, absolutely, man.
That's the story of my life.
You know, I really feel thatit's been these moments, these
kind of marking moments where Icould have never planned this,
could have never dreamed whatGod has done and the
opportunities he's given me, andI would have never thought this
.
I come from a very small littletown in Texas.
We got one Dairy Queen, one RedLight, that was it.
(02:40):
And just you know, if you hadtold me that my life would be
traveling the world playingmusic, I would have never
dreamed that, writing songs andit was.
But.
But I had.
These people came along andbelieved in me at different
points in my life, and then god,just his hand just moving it,
moving mountains really.
(03:01):
uh, for for all of, and so Icount it just.
I'm just so grateful.
I always think of how gratefulI am that God's given me this
life and given me this abilitywith my songs, and it's a
privilege of my life to standthere on stage after stage and
after night and share thesesongs with people.
BT Irwin (03:18):
Uh, I reckon there are a lot of folks in the church of
Christ, uh, who know your songs, but they don't know you, and I
reckon you are more than okaywith that.
I read an article about yoursong how Great Is Our God and
how it has taken on a life ofits own among believers around
the world.
When you write a song and youput it out there, when do you
get the sense that it's not yoursong anymore and that it's
outgrown you?
Yeah, that's what I always prayfor that.
Chris Tomlin (03:38):
The song goes way past me.
That's what I mean by that.
Is that, like you says, peoplejust sitting in church singing a
song they're not thinking aboutoh, this is a Chris Tomlin song
, is it kind of like amazinggrace, right, not that any of my
songs touch that song, but likewhen people sing that song,
they don't think I'm singing aJohn Newton song, right, they
think I'm just singing this hymnthat has become part of the
(04:05):
just.
It's become part of the just,the soundtrack of church.
And so if, if I can have one ortwo songs that ever do that,
that just go like that's sospecial to me because it has
nothing to do with me anymoreand it's just become something
that people sing and and that'swhat I there's been a couple of
songs I feel that have done thatand it's pretty special.
BT Irwin (04:22):
So I imagine some folks think that when you write
a song, you go into a forestglade or you know some room that
looks like Dumbledore study anda heavenly light shines down on
you and, voila, song is born.
But what is the gestation andbirthing process actually like
for a song?
Chris Tomlin (04:38):
That's man.
Every one of them is differentand usually, um these days, it's
uh, it's this.
Right here, I'm like I'msinging something into my phone.
BT Irwin (04:50):
I've got this idea it just comes, I'll be driving.
Chris Tomlin (04:53):
We come in the night and an idea just comes and
there we go.
But it's usually a group ofpeople together.
I have a couple friends that Iget together with and we bring
our ideas, we bring our thoughtsand then we we like how do we
write?
How do we help this?
How do we write this song thatcan find its way into the church
, find its way into songs ofworship?
(05:13):
That's the way.
That's the way I try to write.
I try to write in a way thatpeople can sing.
There's something simple peoplecan sing.
BT Irwin (05:19):
There's something they need to sing.
Chris Tomlin (05:21):
There's something hopefully they want to sing.
It's hopefully something thatthat puts a.
You know it helps people see.
I've always said that I wantedmy songs to help people see more
than just sing.
To let people see the goodnessof God, to see the grace of God,
to see the mercy of God.
Help, their help, open our eyesin a spiritual way you know to
see, and when you see you can'thelp but sing.
(05:42):
That's what I've always said andthe more you see, the more you
sing.
And so the songs, they.
It's a mystery, still a mystery, how they come, but they do
just come.
These little, these little,it's like that, it's like really
fast and it's like that, andit's, at that moment,
inspiration, and then I gottafigure out how to hold on to it
and and develop that out, andit's usually one.
(06:03):
One last thing that, because Icould talk all day on
songwriting, but it's usuallythe most powerful ones,
something out of God's word thatjust jumps out, and I didn't.
It's.
I see it a different way.
It's a verse I read and it'slike, oh, wow, that's powerful.
I want you know something thatcomes out, like I can remember,
in reading Revelation 4, and itsays and they fall down before
(06:23):
Him, they lay their crownsbefore Him, they sing worthy is
the Lamb.
And I just wrote this simple wefall down, we lay our crowns at
the feet of Jesus.
BT Irwin (06:30):
You know, in this little chorus.
Chris Tomlin (06:32):
I was just looking at God's Word, just singing it,
and little did I know this songwould be sung in all churches
around the world.
BT Irwin (06:42):
But it's like they just come in, these little
sparks.
Well, speaking of seeing, let'stalk about the movie the Last
Supper.
It's coming out right aroundthe time that we released this
episode.
My family got to watch apreview of it last night.
We enjoyed it a lot.
You're a musician, so whybranch out and take the risk on
this new medium for you?
How did you get involved withthe Last Supper and why did you
decide this film was the onethat was worth your personal
(07:04):
involvement at this time?
Chris Tomlin (07:05):
Well, yeah, it's like all these things, it's just
like God just directing.
And it was obvious because itstarted with music.
It started with the song andwhen the credits roll, when the
movie comes out, you'll hearthis brand new song.
I wrote no greater love.
You would have thought that Ijust sit and watch the movie and
(07:29):
then wrote the song.
But these guys came to me andsaid, hey, we've got this movie
and would you have a?
You know, a song that couldwork?
And I'm going to show you whatwe're working on.
They show me what we're workingon.
I was like, wow, this isdifferent.
I thought, is it?
When I thought the last serviceis a different Will take and it
and really powerful, and I wasmoved in so many different ways
(07:50):
and I thought, well, I've gotthis song I read a couple months
ago.
I've not played it for anybody.
I got this demo, played it forthem, and the whole team was
like this is the song movie,this is, this is the song songs
called no greater love.
It's John 15.
No greater love than this, thana man lay down his life for his
friends and I.
And so when that kind ofhappened, I was like maybe we
could partner in a greater way.
(08:11):
Maybe this is something that Icould be involved with, because
I loved how theologically strong, how biblically strong this
movie is.
There's so many elements of itthat are just bringing the Bible
to life and I love that, and soI thought you know I can do
this, I can help, I'd love tohelp partner with this and just
more than just a way of justhaving a song in the movie.
Partner with this and just morethan just a way of just having
(08:32):
a song in the movie.
BT Irwin (08:35):
But how can I be a help, be a voice for it?
So, uh, why do you and yourcollaborators on this film
project believe this is theright story, the last supper to
tell right now?
Chris Tomlin (08:41):
Well, I, think the what's compelling to me is it's
obviously when you think of thelast supper, for for for one,
the title last supper think isinteresting because when you
think of a movie of Jesus it'susually the cross or the
resurrection or the birth Right.
Those are the, those are thethings.
That was the big moments, andfor it to focus on the Last
Supper is very interesting to me.
(09:02):
So that caught my attention.
And then how it's told through,really through Peter and Judas,
those kind of big, and Caiaphasand like so Jesus obviously is
the main character of the story,but when you see Judas and
Peter and Caiaphas and yourealize, wow, that is humanity
today.
(09:22):
Nothing has changed.
We all still struggle withbetrayal, denial, power, greed,
doubt, all the things that arein there, and so I was.
I feel like people are going tobe so moved by this, or just
they're going to be.
Their hearts are going to bepierced again because we can all
put ourselves at this table.
These guys were not perfectpeople and they weren't these
(09:47):
saints.
These are like we know we callthem saints now, but they
weren't these perfect saints.
They were like wow, they got itall together.
Jesus chose some guys who, whenhe was at the table with them,
he knew they would betray him.
He knew that they would denyhim, and yet he still said this
is for you.
And it hit me again.
I was like I've been aChristian my whole life, most of
my life, and I thought I don'tthink I've ever really seen it
(10:10):
that, thought of it that way,when Jesus was breaking the
bread and he gave them the cupand he said this is my body,
this is my blood.
Everything changes tonight.
This is a different and this isno longer the lamb.
I am the lamb.
This is my sacrifice, it's foryou.
And yet he knew in just aminute you're going to betray me
, you're going to deny me and Ithink, man, how much, how much,
(10:31):
much, how much is that?
How much of that is in me and Ifeel like I feel like I could
put myself there and just, andit was powerful in that way.
BT Irwin (10:41):
Yeah, Having seen the film, I can tell everybody that
some of the most moving parts ofthe film are the interactions
between Jesus and Judas andJesus and Peter at the last
supper it's.
It's presented very, very well.
So what are y'all hoping willhappen because of this film?
Chris Tomlin (11:00):
I hope people are.
You know, it's a moment in time, right, there's just so much
amazing things coming out andamazing content coming out and
and media coming out for thegospel.
In this amazing moment there'sjust so much, and I love that.
I think it's.
We live in a world where theculture feels so dark and
(11:23):
everybody feels that it feelsthere's so much hatred out there
, so much division, so much fear, so many things and yet and I
think people, whether where theyknow they're not not longing
for this, the forgiveness, themercy, the grace, the love that
is in the gospel, the message ofjesus, and so and what I love
about it being in theaters isthat people will walk in a
(11:43):
theater who would never walk ina church.
And when you put out a film likethis, um, the producer, michael
scott, of this film, he said,of all the when, all the films
he does, all Christian films, hedoes about 40% of the audience
they're not believers that walkinto a film like this.
That's incredible.
That's not happening inchurches.
I doubt 40% of the congregationis not believers in Sunday, so
(12:04):
that's so powerful.
What a moment to.
And maybe people are skepticalof Jesus, like, okay, heard
about him, everybody talks abouthim and maybe people are
skeptical of Jesus, like, okay,heard about him, everybody talks
about him.
What is this all about?
I think people will be struckby this portrayal of him, and
it's done in a beautiful way andit's very biblically grounded.
So I hope people are inspired,their lives are changed.
(12:25):
You know this moment, right,this moment that this film is
about changed the entire world.
This was the moment that theentire world changed, right?
And this message is stillchanging lives today and I
believe it'll change lives whenpeople see it.
BT Irwin (12:40):
Amen.
Well, a lot of Church of Christcongregations have been using
the show the Chosen as acatalyst for discussion and
study, and that's led to a lotof conversation about how much
artists can take license withinspired scripture to create and
present compelling stories thatpeople want to watch in a film
or a TV format.
How did the collaborators onthe Last Supper work through
striking that balance betweenartistic license and scriptural
(13:02):
fidelity?
Chris Tomlin (13:03):
Well, that's what I love about this and that's why
I kind of put my name behind it.
I thought this is sotheologically sound.
When Jesus speaks, there's veryfew lines that he says that
aren't straight from words inred.
I thought that was reallyinteresting and I love that.
So it's like he just brings alland it's, you know, it just
takes all these things he saidin Scripture and the guy who
(13:27):
portrays Jesus.
That's his lines.
And then when you're developingPeter and you're developing
Judas, obviously there's gapsthere of like, okay, we don't
know everything when they werewalking the road.
That we're saying to each other, but so you're creating that
story, right, and so you try tostay as true to it.
I love that.
This just really stays on tothis idea of like, okay, judas,
(13:50):
like he's been with Jesus forthree years, like seeing
everything he's seen, why wouldhe?
Why would he do what he did?
And I love that.
As you know, it's pretty hard towatch.
It's pretty, it's pretty strong, it's pretty strong.
But that that character, thatdemon, that snake, that just was
always speaking to him, just,hey, man, you don't, you know,
(14:12):
you, you don't want this, youdon't want, you don't want this
way.
There's a better way, there's abetter way for you power, greed
, all the things and it's.
And I thought that's a powerfulportrayal, because that's the
same lies that we're being toldtoday, those lies we've been
bombarded with.
So I thought that was it was.
It's pretty dark and and roughwhen it comes to Judas, but I'm
like isn't that what evil is?
(14:33):
I mean it's a, it's a.
I mean it's not some nicelittle fairy saying, oh no, this
, this is like, this is theenemy of the world, coming at
people, trying to distract themfrom Jesus.
And so I thought that was donein a pretty powerful way, cause
I was like, okay, yeah, that'swhat it feels like to me too,
when I have all that stuff andyou know, coming at me.
BT Irwin (14:51):
Yeah, it's very visceral portrayal.
Can't wait for people to see it.
Last question what is the bestthing about being Chris Tomlin
and what's the hardest thingabout being Chris Tomlin?
Chris Tomlin (15:02):
The hardest thing, the best thing is easy being in
my family, being a dad of threegirls, that's the best thing.
I got three little girls in meand that's what's what I.
That's the best thing that everhappened to me, and so love that
.
The hardest thing would bewould be that all the travel it
(15:24):
takes to.
I wish I could be everywhere atonce, but you know, when you're
just, I love playing music, Ilove all the things, but what it
takes being away from thefamily is that takes, that takes
a toll.
Um, so I guess the best andworst is both family that god's
giving his family, and beingaway from them.
(15:44):
But but we all in this togethermy wife, she's incredible and
there's like this is what we do,this is what god's given us to
do, and we know that some daysyou won't, some seasons you
won't be here, some seasons youwill, and that's so.
That's the good and bad.
BT Irwin (16:00):
Well, Chris Tomlin's just a guy from Texas who writes
a few worship songs, but oddsare you've probably sung them
and listened to them in the lastseven days.
If you've been to church andnow you have a chance to go see
a film that he executiveproduced, that would be the Last
Supper in theaters by the timeyou hear this episode.
We'll put a link to Chris'swebsite and to the film in the
show notes.
Chris, thank you for hangingout with the Church of Christ
(16:20):
crowd today.
Chris Tomlin (16:21):
Amen, thank you.
Great, awesome, appreciate it.
Thanks for getting the word outabout this as well.
BT Irwin (16:25):
It's our pleasure.
God bless you.
Chris Tomlin (16:27):
Thank you buddy.
BT Irwin (16:28):
We hope that something you heard in this episode
encouraged, enlightened orenriched you in some way.
If it did, thanks be to God andplease pay it forward.
Subscribe to this podcast andshare it with a friend.
Recommend and review itwherever you listen to your
favorite podcasts.
Your subscription,recommendation and review help
us reach more people.
Please send your comments,ideas and suggestions to podcast
(16:49):
at christianchronicleorg.
And don't forget our ministryto inform and inspire Christians
and congregations around theworld is a nonprofit ministry
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So if you like the show and youwant to keep it going and make
it better, please make atax-deductible gift to the
Christian Chronicle atchristianchronicleorg.
Slash donate Until next time.
May grace and peace be yours inabundance.
Holly Linden (17:12):
The Christian Chronicle Podcast is a
production of the ChristianChronicle Inc.
Informing and inspiring Churchof Christ congregations, members
and ministries around the worldsince 1943.
The Christian Chronicle'smanaging editor is Audrey
Jackson, editor-in-chief BobbyRoss Jr and President and CEO
(17:33):
Eric Trigestad.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted
and edited by BT Irwin and isproduced by James Flanagan in
Detroit, michigan, usa.
I remember the way you calledme friend.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Then I think of your mercy, the scars on your hands.
There's no greater love there,never will be.
You laid down your life forsomeone like me.
No matter how far I run, yourarms are wide enough.
(18:19):
All of my stains are all washedaway.
No, there's no greater love.
There's no greater love.
I know it won't give up.
It never fades, it overflows,it falls like rain, leaves a 99
(18:47):
to save the one.
So I sing your praise.
So I sing there's no greaterlove.
There's no greater love.
I know there's no greater love,never will be.
(19:08):
You brought the chains.
You set me free.
No matter how far I run, yourarms are wide enough.
All of my stains Are all washedaway.
No, there's no greater love.
There's no greater love, I know.
(19:33):
No, there's no greater love, Iknow.
No, there's no greater love.
There's no greater love, I know.
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