"Honorary title for this episode is 'Filling the Void.'" Listen and find out why (and thanks to Alonzo Rojo)!
Jóvenes for Christ is a summer camp for English-speaking young Christians growing up in bilingual or Spanish-speaking churches and homes. In this episode, we hear from Jóvenes for Christ board members, Kevin Rivera (Lakeview Iglesia de Cristo, Garland, Texas), Alonzo Rojo (Robinson Avenue Iglesia de Cristo, Springdale, Arkansas), and Yazmin Tabares (Robinson Avenue Iglesia de Cristo, Springdale, Arkanses).
They explain why growing up in English-speaking America and Spanish-speaking churches and homes is hard for young Christians. More important, however, is how this exposes the "generation gaps" common in so many Church of Christ congregations. While older generations in Spanish-speaking congregations may prefer to hold onto the Spanish language, does that come at the cost of driving away their English-speaking younger generations? And how might English-speaking younger generations honor and preserve what is precious from their Spanish-speaking elders?
This episode's cover features Jóvenes for Christ founder JuanRaymon ("J. R.") Rubio, who died in a car crash in December 2024. He was on his way home from a planning retreat for this year's Jóvenes for Christ camp. This episode is dedicated to his memory. Read The Christian Chronicle's report on Rubio's death and its impact on Jóvenes for Christ.
Link to Jóvenes for Christ (for more information or to support)
Donate to support this ministry of "information and inspiration" at christianchronicle.org/donate
Send your comments, ideas, and suggestions to podcast@christianchronicle.org
Learn more about how to visit the Bible lands as a graduate student at the Freed-Hardeman University Graduate School of Theology at fhu.edu/chronicle
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
BT Irwin (00:03):
Family and friends, neighbors and, most of all,
strangers.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle Podcast.
We're bringing you the storiesshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
I'm BT Irwin.
May what you are about to hear.
Bless you and honor God.
My roots are in the South.
My entire family, on bothparents' sides, are from places
(00:27):
like Alabama and Tennessee.
I grew up visiting extendedfamily in Tennessee every year
and I went to college and gradschool in Arkansas and Texas,
but I've lived almost my entirelife in the Great Lakes region
in the North, and here's what'sweird about that.
Around Michigan, where I live,people hear me speak and assume
(00:48):
that I'm from the south, andwhen I'm in the south, people
hear me speak and assume I'mfrom the north, even though my
entire family and my heritage issouthern to this day, and it
brings up feelings of wonderingwhere I really fit.
To some in the North I seem tooSouthern and some in the South
have not.
Let me forget that I am a quoteYankee.
(01:09):
This is an example of what it'slike to be from a particular
culture and place in the worldbut to live in a different one.
When you're present in one,it's hard to hold on to the
other, and when you try to holdon to one, it may feel like it
comes at the cost of the onewhere you're actually present.
This is the situation for manyChurch of Christ youth who are
growing up in the United Statesbut are of Latin American
(01:30):
descent.
They are English speakers, butthey attend churches and live in
homes where Spanish remains theday-to-day language.
It's not that they don't lovethe culture and heritage from
which they come.
It's that the outside,english-speaking world in which
they live is what they know.
So, from day to day, they haveto learn to live in the tension.
Life is hard enough on its own.
(01:50):
Living life in two worlds atthe same time is even harder.
It is for these youngChristians that Hovenus for
Christ exists.
Hovenus for Christ is a camp forEnglish-speaking Christian
young people who are growing upin bilingual or Spanish-speaking
congregations and homes.
In addition to making space forthese Christians and their
unique circumstances, hovindasraises money to provide
(02:12):
scholarships for them to attendcolleges and universities from
the Church of Christ heritage.
The Christian Chroniclerecently featured Hovindas for
Christ when tragedy struck theministry last December.
Juan Ramon Rubio, one of thefounders, died in a car crash on
his way home from a planningsession for this year's camp at
Abilene Christian University.
He was 32 years old, but, asJesus says, a seed that falls to
(02:35):
the ground will bear much fruit, and Hovenus for Christ is
carrying on and growing.
This summer, a record 240campers attended Hovenus for
Christ, a testament to Rubio'shard work and love for young
Christians growing up inbilingual spaces.
Today we have three of his goodfriends who are carrying on the
work of Hovenus for Christ.
They are the current officersof the ministry's board.
(02:56):
Alonzo Rojo is youth ministerwith Robinson Avenue Iglesia de
Cristo in Springdale, arkansas.
Kevin Rivera is youth and youngadults minister with Lakeview
Iglesia de Cristo in Gardale,arkansas.
Kevin Rivera is Youth and YoungAdults Minister with Lakeview
Iglesia de Cristo in Garland,texas.
And Yasmin Tabarez teacheschildren at Robinson Avenue
Iglesia de Cristo.
And.
Yasmin Tabarez teaches childrenat Robinson Avenue Iglesia de
Cristo in Springdale, arkansas.
(03:16):
Alonzo, kevin, yasmin, thankyou for being with us today.
Alonzo Rojo (03:20):
No, thank you for having us.
I'm excited to be here for thisopportunity to share about
Hovenus for Christ.
Kevin Rivera (03:27):
Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity.
BT Irwin (03:41):
Hovenus for Christ occupies a space, I reckon, most
of our United States, becausethey were born here but growing
up in bilingual orSpanish-speaking churches and
homes.
What is life like for theseyoung Christians, and what is
Hovenus for Christ trying to dofor and with them?
Kevin Rivera (03:58):
Yeah, just growing up in a bilingual household and
bilingual church, you know thelife is just.
You know, like any other personlike has family or heritage
from a different country, justjumping from one world to
another, living, you know, in aspanned household and then, you
know, jumping into, you know,when you go outside your house
it's a different world in somesense.
(04:19):
And holiness for I think wehave created a space where, even
though we grew up in thiscountry speaking English, maybe
more so, or perhaps bothlanguages, but more of this
generation, english, it's moreEnglish dominant, and Holiness
for Christ offers them thatspace where they can be who they
(04:42):
are.
We can meet them where they'reat.
They can be who they are.
We can meet them where they'reat, and even if they don't know
Spanish that well, they couldcome at this camp and worship in
a language that they'recomfortable with and not feel
any perhaps shame or guilt fornot knowing the language.
And one of the other things, too, is part of our mission as
(05:02):
Prophets of Christ is promotinghigher education.
That's why we have our camps atchristian universities and we
try to help them with somescholarship money as well to buy
books or other things that theyneed, and so we want these kids
to basically take over futureand we're trying to prepare the
next generation, and I knoweducation is a huge part of that
(05:25):
yeah, no, I agree with kevin, Ithink.
Alonzo Rojo (05:29):
I think a lot of us live in the hyphen in the in
between, like we're hispanic butmight not speak spanish
perfectly, but we're fromamerica a lot of the times but
don't look anglo and so like,like that can be a hard place to
live in.
You change your backdropdepending on where you're at.
So I think Hovind is Kevin'sright.
(05:51):
Hovind is just creating thatspace, that in between, for
those kids that can have a placewhere they can be themselves,
where we can talk about theChankla, which is the sandal,
and like I don't know if youknow what that is, which is the
sandal, and like I don't know ifyou know what that is.
That strikes fear into the,into kids when they hear it,
like they get scared.
That's, it's like the belt, it'sjust a you know like.
(06:12):
Oh, yeah, you know.
So like, but like I wouldn'thave to explain that they would
understand what I'm talkingabout when I say la chancla.
So just little references likethat.
Like we're creating a spacewhere they can understand our
references, understand wherewe're coming from.
It's just a space where we allhave the same thing in common.
(06:36):
We live in that hyphen and weunderstand where they're coming
from, and I think that's whatHovind is.
That's why it was created tofill that void.
Yazmin Tabares (06:45):
That was there I think also like it's a safe
space and like everyone kind ofknows everyone, like truly, we
started instagram for hovenestuntil this year, like a lot of
our promotion was word of mouth,so it's like a lot of the kids
just enjoy it that much thatthey're like they tell their
friends, hey, come to here, comehere, come here.
And we get over about 200people just by kids doing that
(07:11):
and it's just like, like whatthey said, it's just a safe
place where they can bethemselves, where you make
connections, where you haveconnections from dallas, from
houston, and then when you cometogether it's like you don't
miss a second I'm trying to usemy imagination to enter into
this, this space, where, wherey'all live and where Hoveness
(07:32):
for Christ lives, and I'm goingto do my best here.
BT Irwin (07:35):
This may be kind of crude, but my whole family on my
dad's side of my mom's side arefrom the South, so Tennessee on
my dad's side and my mom's sideare from the South, so
Tennessee, and I am the onlyperson in my family doesn't live
in the South.
So we're Southerners going backgenerations and I live in
(07:56):
Michigan and so here in Michiganpeople hear me talk and they
sometimes think oh, you're fromthe South, you're not from
around here, even though I'velived up North pretty much my
whole life, and then my familyfrom the South.
They're always like so when areyou moving back?
You know like when are youfinally going to like come back
(08:17):
where you belong?
And I'm like well, I'm veryhappy living in Michigan and the
summers are not as hot, so Idon't plan on coming back.
And so I know that's kind of acrude.
You know that doesn't quite getto what young people who are
coming from Spanish speakinghomes are going through.
(08:37):
I'm just trying to use myimagination to enter into a
little bit of that tension there, that they might feel a little
bit of that tension there, thatthey might feel am I, is my
example just ridiculous, or doesit?
Does it touch just a little biton on what life is like?
Alonzo Rojo (08:51):
I think it's pretty accurate, maybe just a little
bit more extreme.
But even within the spanishworld you know a lot, you know
latin america, like withinmexico, el salvador.
There's differences there,there's tension there.
So like you come to America andlike we're thrown all into the
same pot and so like.
(09:12):
We feel a lot of that tension,and so I think it's very
accurate example of what it'slike.
BT Irwin (09:21):
It's a sin to be jealous, right, but I'm a little
bit jealous of people who canspeak two languages, because I
only speak one, and I'mespecially jealous of people who
can speak Spanish, because it'ssuch a beautiful and elegant
language and more people aroundme speak it now.
So when I imagine being a youngperson growing up in a bilingual
(09:41):
church or home, that soundsamazing to me, and I'm sure that
a lot of things about that areamazing.
But what I was getting at iswhat are some of the challenges
that someone like me, who's likeoh, it'd be amazing to be
bilingual, or growing up in abilingual space with a language
like Spanish, just can't evenimagine or I just wouldn't even
(10:03):
know about.
And you used one example asecond ago, what I would call
like an inside joke, that somepeople get and other people
wouldn't get.
But like there are the, thereare the parts of life that just
don't occur to people like me,because I'm not in the situation
myself, and so I I wonder ifthere's any more that you could,
you could share about that, forwhat I expect our audiences is
(10:27):
probably a lot like me.
Yazmin Tabares (10:28):
What I can think about is like when you're
trying to say something inSpanish, but trying to, but you
can only think of the Englishword, and you're like wait, like
, like, like this, you know, andthey're like no, you I don't
know, know, because they want tohear it in spanish, and so like
it's just like you know theword, or you know what you're
(10:49):
trying to say, but it's not inthe right language.
So it's like your mind is kindof stuck in the middle yeah,
yeah, I gotta.
Kevin Rivera (10:58):
We had an event in our church and like a bible
bowl type of thing, and theanswer was the Philippians, but
I was trying to say it inSpanish, which is pretty
expensive, but then I ended upsaying Filipinas, which is the
Philippines.
I just arrived from thePhilippines that day and like
(11:23):
the mental juggle in my mind isjust trying to answer it as
quickly as possible as well, toget it again.
And so, yeah, it's me and Coach, based on that and like yeah,
we kind of do that sometimes inthe world of bilingual or
Spanglish.
You know, we'll speak Englishand then throw in Spanish and
throw in some, some Englishwords.
(11:43):
But at the same time, one thingtoo is like you know, most of
these kids like this kind ofgets into that We'll just got
them talking about.
Some of them are losing theirSpanish speaking ability and
because English has begun sopervasive in our language and
(12:04):
even slips in into Spanish, youknow, english is influencing our
language as well.
And also like when we, when ourabuelos, come to visit us, we
go visit them in their homecountry.
There's that language andcultural barrier as well.
We're just so used to growingup here in a certain way, and
(12:28):
you know when they're from thecampo, you know from the country
, like they speak really, reallyfast, and like you don't know
Spanish that well, you're goingto miss out on what they're
saying.
You know there's a perhaps likean ongoing debate too, if we
should have a bilingual church,and you know what does that
actually mean a bilingual church, a bilingual church.
What does that actually mean Abilingual church?
(12:51):
Because at my church, ourchurch service is in Spanish,
but what I do is everything inEnglish, and other churches are
literally bilingual where theyhave everything in English and
Spanish.
Another person on board serveshe's a preacher at a bilingual
church in Nixon, texas, an houraway from San Antonio.
(13:12):
I talked to him about that andhe said that he could do it, but
it's very exhausting.
Yeah, he's exhausted at the endof the sermon just because
jumping back and forth from thelanguage, it's an actual job too
.
There are interpreters outthere, and so when it comes to
(13:33):
people wanting to do bilingual,if it works for the church,
great.
It does take skill, it doestake an art form to do it as
well.
Yazmin Tabares (13:43):
So it's not as simple as it sounds.
I think about how, even withinHispanic communities, we're
Mexican, so we understand thelanguage, the Spanish that we
speak, but Kevin will sometimessay something he's Salvadorian
and we're like.
What does that mean, kevin?
I think it's different types ofSpanish too.
Kevin Rivera (14:04):
We had a guy from our church go preach at a church
in El Salvador.
He's Mexican and he probablygot half of his sermon.
It is a different way of howthey speak and some of the
things that he said it just wentright over their heads.
Alonzo Rojo (14:21):
Yeah.
Kevin Rivera (14:23):
We do have, believe it or not, a
miscommunication as well, eventhough we're speaking the same
language.
BT Irwin (14:28):
Yeah, y'all, minister, among young English-speaking
Christians of Latin Americandescent who are growing up here
in the United States.
Parents, grandparents, areimmigrants and they're growing
up in churches and homes thatretain some of their Latin
American culture and identity,especially their language.
But they're also the youngpeople that you work with are
(14:52):
assimilating to life in theUnited States, as you pointed
out.
What are some of the bigchallenges or concerns that are
top of mind these days for thoseyoung Christians?
Alonzo Rojo (15:02):
I think, you know, we've created all these
different events, differentthings they can go to, but
sometimes when they go home, itdoesn't look the same and it's
all in Spanish, and a lot ofthese kids only speak English or
their Spanish isn't the best,and what they're experiencing
with us is not the same at home,and there's that fear that
(15:25):
they'll go look elsewhere forthat belonging, where they can
worship in English and Spanishand still have that community,
and I think that's a bigchallenge.
I think a lot of our Spanishchurches are staying Spanish
only and don't realize that weneed to adapt to what the young
(15:47):
people need, and that's abilingual service that caters to
our young people as well.
And so that's.
You know, one of my big fearsis we're doing all this work,
but at home are they being fedand are they growing Because and
so I would say that's one ofthe biggest challenges.
Kevin Rivera (16:07):
Every church has its own challenge, that is, to
what language and what languagewe use the best, and so I
remember doing a survey when Igot back to Texas in 2019, when
I took over the youth group, andI had them answer questions.
If y'all want to haveeverything done in Spanish
(16:27):
English bilingual you're neutralabout it.
Basically, all of them saidmore English, or neutral maybe
once in Spanish, but mainly allof them said English.
And it's not that they don'tunderstand Spanish Most of them
are bilingual but even with thebilingual kids, they can easily
(16:54):
be tuned out of a sermon that isspeaking only Because the
people that are preaching in thepulpit bring a lot of their own
heritage and culture.
That happened back in the day.
It does not represent who thekids are today and so they can't
relate to that.
And I know the job of apreacher is, you can't make
everyone happy, you can'tcommunicate with every single
(17:17):
body, maybe at different pointswhen you're preaching.
But I think that's just, youknow, one of the challenges too.
And also, you know, in mycontext, you know, and it speaks
to the broader picture as well,we were just at Green Valley
Youth Camp and the theme wasconsider the birds and the
(17:39):
lilies.
You know, do not worry, youknow it speaks to the great
context of this generation ofthem being anxious.
You know, into the greatcontext of this generation of
them being anxious.
And when I got back to Texas, Inever heard the pain of anxiety
with these kids.
You know, when I was growing upI never dealt with that, and
these kids are dealing with thatso much, even suicidal thoughts
(18:03):
, and providing for theirfamilies too.
If they have a single parenthousehold, they want their kids
to help out with.
You know, providing to sustainthemselves, and everyone's
different, but as a result, youknow, they're always working,
always trying to make that moneythey're they're, they're in the
(18:25):
pursuit of money, more so thananything else, just so that they
can sustain themselves.
And I know, you know, holdingfor Christ in these camps, that
we do it gives them a break fromthe outside world and allow
them to be who they are.
And you know, I think that'swhy when they that's why jr
(18:48):
wanted to start this andspearhead this.
It was very good at meeting thewhole one is where they're at
and and we're just trying to dothe same, but it is.
It is a lot, of, a lot of workthat we do great things.
I can't but like a lot of thesame how they're being fed at
home too yeah you know, I thinkof my kids.
Alonzo Rojo (19:10):
I'm married to, you know, somebody that's anglo,
and so at home we speak englishand my kids understand spanish,
because we go to a spanishcongregation and my moms only
speak spanish, but they don'treally speak it and what?
What they understand is minimal.
So, like, I think of my kids inthe future how am I going to
(19:33):
make sure that they're being fed?
And you know, I've been prayinga lot about it and, like, do I
need to talk to the leadershipabout?
There needs to be a shift,because my kids are not the only
kids that don't understandSpanish.
I know kids in my youth groupthat don't and they just sit
there and I don't want that.
(19:54):
You know, like I want them togrow, to want to grow, and so
that it's it's the biggestchallenges.
Are we providing, are wemeeting these kids where they're
at?
Yazmin Tabares (20:05):
And you know, lord willing, a lot of churches
will start to move thatdirection, but we'll see I think
kevin was right about how jrwould meet kids where they're at
, and that's just adapting withthe new generation, where it's
like the reality of the newgeneration is that when their
parents are born here, theyspeak.
(20:25):
Their parents already speakenglish and they're only
learning english.
For example, how long was wastalking about his kids and I
think for me it's just like it'sreally like difficult to say
that too, because then it's justlike you want to meet them
where they're at and we do.
Like I teach littles on at ourchurch.
I teach from three-year-olds tosix-year-olds and if I teach
(20:50):
only in spanish, it's hard forthem to understand for some of
them, which is why I make myclass bilingual and even if it
takes a little bit longer, Ijust like I think about, like I
need to.
They need to be learning this,they need to learn the knowledge
, and even if it takes me alittle bit longer, like the kids
, like how do I explain it?
BT Irwin (21:12):
like when they keep growing up and they move up to
other classes, they're not goingto learn everything that they
need to if I'm only teaching inspanish, because it's always
about meeting them where they'reat I like how y'all have talked
about this, because to so manyof us who are outsiders to the
space you occupy, we may nothave a way to imagine what it is
(21:39):
like, but I think in the waythat you've just described this,
it presents it as somethingmost of us are familiar with,
which is a generational I don'twant to say divide, but even in
an English-speaking churchthat's always been an
English-speaking church andChurch of Christ folks are
(22:00):
really familiar with this.
You'll have older generationsthat sing certain songs and
maybe use certain translationsof the Bible and speak in
certain ways, and then you haveyounger generations that prefer
different music and differenttranslations of the Bible, and
(22:21):
so there's a disconnect betweenolder generations and younger
generations.
And so I know a lot ofcongregations they're
English-speaking congregationsthat are trying to figure out
how do we meet the needs ofeveryone here, these different
generations that are in our pewsevery week.
How do the older folks servethe younger folks and be
(22:44):
considerate of the younger folksand what they need, and, at the
same time, how do we teach ouryounger folks and be considerate
of the younger folks and whatthey need and, at the same time,
how do we teach our youngerfolks to be considerate of and
thoughtful of the older folksand what they need.
And so I like the way you'vedescribed this, because I think
the situation you described isfamiliar to a lot of people that
care about the church and careabout each other.
(23:05):
They just probably have neverthought about it the way that
y'all are experiencing it.
Alonzo Rojo (23:09):
I think you're right.
It is a generational gap.
I think you know a lot of ourparents that came over.
They are Hispanic, they'reMexican, they're also the
Southern Indians, so theirculture is so different than
ours here.
And it is this like culturebattle between the hispanics and
(23:33):
generational battle.
And if we don't learn to adapt,be it anglo or be it whatever
nationality you are, you willlose a generation if you're not
catering to their needs.
That doesn't mean change thedoctrine or anything like that.
It's just how you approach.
It is different and I seethat's why Holiness for Christ
(23:56):
was created.
There were so many events thatwere Spanish only, that were
great, but there was a group ofkids that stopped going because
they didn't understand.
And so how do we reach thosekids?
Oh, we can create something.
We can still have spanish onlyevents but also have bilingual
events, and we can still go to,you know, english or anglo
(24:18):
events.
Let's I take a lot of my kidsto anglo events.
Like I don't want to just getin this bubble.
We are the body of christ andthere's many avenues where we
can learn and grow.
Kevin Rivera (24:29):
At some point you've got to pass the keys to
the next generation and thepeople that came to JR at the
very beginning, where they cameup with this idea.
What Alonzo was saying, there'sall this Spanish event.
We're missing the need of mostof these kids that want to have
more.
They're just more Englishinclined and like they saw a
(24:51):
need, and I think I'm not sureif all of them.
I don't know if you can speakon it, I'm not sure if all of
them knew English, but they knewit's not going to take them,
it's going to take somebody elseto do it, and I'm not sure if
(25:15):
it's being stubborn, prideful,prideful, but most of our
respect is make it I don't knowI'm using the correct word like
doctrine or it's a sin if youmove away from the language or
from the culture and I thinkthat's what Alonzo was saying
we're going to miss out on howto serve these kids adequately,
and if you're not equipped withit, that's totally fine.
(25:35):
But we could be honest withourselves.
You know what I'm doing is nothelping, and so that's why I'm
saying how can we pass on thekeys to the next generation?
And so the future of theHispanic church is just going to
look different in manydifferent ways.
It's probably more bilingual,or English-inclined, and
(25:59):
multi-ethnic multilingual.
Most of us are like a littlemarried, a little married, a
white girl, and so there's a lotof interracial marriages, and
so which is after?
It's just what it is, you know.
And the church is no different.
If we're not trying to dosomething right now for them,
(26:20):
they're just going to go off todifferent churches, and so
that's why we have created allthese other retreats, that's why
we have created all these othercamps, and so that if they want
to go, that's fine, but we'redoing what we can to serve you
guys here, and so, especiallywith our young adult retreat
it's nothing new we don't serveour young adults at all in our
(26:42):
Hispanic churches, and so wedecided to create an Atlanta
just for young adults only, andso there's a lot of pieces to
this, but in the future I thinkit's just going to look a tad
bit different.
Alonzo Rojo (26:59):
You know, I think when the Spanish churches really
started popping off in theUnited States, there was that
need of Spanish-speakingcongregations.
You know there was a largeinflux of immigrants coming to
America, so it made sense thatthey were Spanish only.
You know, and I think, where alot of these congregations and
(27:20):
maybe preachers and eldershipshave have missed the boat is we
don't have a large influx, likewe did, of immigrants coming
that only need Spanish.
Our influx now is those peoplethat came, had kids and those
people are having kids, andthat's the generation I think
we're trying to reach and that'sthe generation that if we don't
(27:42):
move we'll get lost.
But yeah, so I think it's justshifting and, like I said,
filling that void.
I think that's our biggestthing.
If you want to call thisepisode anything, it's just
called filling the void thankyou, first guest to ever suggest
the title for me.
BT Irwin (28:01):
I like that it's always so hard to title an
episode.
You just made my job so easy.
That's funny, one of the thingsthat I'm thinking about, because
I'm almost 50, I feel like I'm25.
I still feel like I'm young,but then things remind me that
I'm not.
And I'm reaching that age nowwhere I'm starting to feel that
(28:23):
disconnect with the youngerpeople in my church.
To feel that disconnect withthe younger people in my church
because I grew up in a certainchurch culture and we had music
and we had language and we hadtraditions that I grew up in and
I cherish those things and theymean a lot to me.
But then, in order to connectwith and reach the younger
(28:44):
people in our congregations, inour church, we have to let some
of those things go to make roomfor new things, and that is a
loss for me.
I'm starting to feel the loss.
I'm starting to feel the griefand the sadness of having to let
go of things that are preciousto me to make room for new
(29:07):
things that are precious to theyoung people.
And I just don't know how awarewe are sometimes of how that's
really going on.
And what we do because humanbeings are really not rational
creatures, we're desiringcreatures and we rationalize our
desires is we will bring inthings like the Bible to
rationalize our point of view,and so what you're describing
(29:36):
here in your context, I think,really is familiar to so many
people.
It's not a language thing, it'snot going from Spanish to
English speaking, letting go ofsome parts of, maybe, a culture
that your parents orgrandparents left behind in
another country, be a culturethat your parents or
grandparents left behind inanother country, but I think
everyone listening to this who'sbeen a part of a congregation
for a long time can resonatewith some of the things you're
sharing here.
So thank you for opening oureyes.
(29:58):
I just want to riff with you onone final question here, and
it's a long one, so forgive me.
I think it's a question thatchallenges a lot of apprentices
and students of Jesus Christ whosojourn here in the United
States these days.
On one hand, the kingdom of Godis multicultural, multiethnic,
multilingual, multinational.
(30:19):
I think most Church of Christfolks believe this.
So in our better moments wecall for inclusion and unity,
even if we're not so good atpracticing it most of the time.
I believe most Church of Christfolks aspire to inclusion and
unity on biblical grounds, but,on the other hand, I think most
of us also believe that there isa place and time to come away
(30:43):
and celebrate the particularcultures or what I'll call
heritage groups among us.
For example, I think some ofour listeners would agree it's a
gift from God for a bunch ofSEC football fans to gather for
a tailgate party on a Saturdayafternoon in October.
As a Big Ten guy from Ohio, Ican appreciate SEC football fans
, but I am not one of them and Idon't fit in there except as a
(31:06):
visitor.
So here's my point.
In theory, the Church of Christcan hold on to two things at the
same time.
We can hold on to the vision ofa multicultural, multi-ethnic,
multilingual, multinationalkingdom of God that draws all of
humanity together as one, andwe can hold on to the idea that
there can be a place and timefor cultures or heritage groups
(31:28):
within that kingdom to gatherand celebrate what they love
about themselves.
But I don't know if we havefigured out how to do both in
the real life of the church inthe world.
Hoveness for Christ, because itministers with young Christians
who are wholly English-speakingAmericans and Holy
Spanish-speaking Latin Americans, may have more practice than
(31:50):
most of us at making space forboth the plurality of the
kingdom of God and the specialcultures and peoples within it.
So I wonder if you can sharewith our very curious audience
what you've learned about beingthe church in that space,
because the rest of us wouldreally like to know.
Kevin Rivera (32:08):
Well, I'm the same with you, bradley.
I'm not with the SEC.
I don't even know what thatmeans.
It's college football.
I don't watch college football.
I could talk about theChampions League.
I could talk about La LigaSerie A.
You know what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about la liga.
You know what I'm talking about.
(32:28):
I'm talking about soccer, butyou said you'd be a visit to
that, and so I think that youknow that's a good example of,
you know, basically trying tobridge the gap right, trying to
just fellowship with ourbrothers and sisters in christ
that look different, that speakdifferent.
(32:49):
And you know, talked about earlyon about, you know, bilingual
churches, and you know myfeeling towards that.
I even in our own Hispaniccommunities, we just speak
(33:13):
differently, and it could beshown more of that difference if
we try to force unity as well.
And so one of the best waysthat we can at least bridge that
gap is, you know, each one'sculture coming together every
now and then.
We have a quarterly bilingualservice here and we bring our
(33:34):
own dishes, you know, from ourown country, and the angles just
love it.
They just bring pizza.
No, I'm kidding, that's one ofthe way that that we can, we can
, we can celebrate and just cometogether as one, and I think in
the future, though, that canlook more of how we want it, you
(33:56):
know, just because it's goingto look different and I think
everyone's going to be speakingthe same language too, or be
worshiping the same language,and everything's going to be
multi-ethnic, multi-racial, andso that in the future, I can,
that can, we can literally seethat in the meantime, little
(34:16):
moments, little, you know,events that we can hold together
.
We're going to celebrate oneanother and worship together and
fellowship with one another.
Alonzo Rojo (34:25):
Like you said, be a visitor on hospitality, you
know we can be the host today,god can be the host another day,
and so just you know having tobridge that gap, you know, every
night of the year, you know, Ithink I've learned that, yes, we
have many differences butthere's one thing that unites us
(34:45):
and that's our belief in JesusChrist and who he is, and that
he died for us and rose on thethird day for us.
And you know, I think if when Igo with to anglo events, like I
don't really focus on I'm theonly hispanic as much as I used
to because those are my brothersin Christ, and when I go to
(35:09):
Hoveness, like, I don't say likeoh, these are all Hispanics
that look and sound like me.
We're here to worship God,we're here to learn about God.
And, you know, be it that anAnglo-African American comes or
anybody comes to Hoveness, likethat's a brother in Christ.
And I loved it this year so muchbecause my brother-in-law, he's
(35:29):
Anglo and we were talking atdinner once about it and he's
like I want to go, and then Itold him come and he's like well
, they understand me.
I was like, brother, we speakEnglish and he was like, okay,
and he came and he loved it, hedidn't feel like an outsider, he
(35:51):
taught about Christ and I thinkthat's one of the most
important things.
Yes, we can have thesedifferent events that are
Spanish only English, only ledby Anglos, led by Hispanics, and
that's great.
We need those spaces, but wecan also fellowship and always
remember what brings us together, and if we were put that at the
(36:12):
forefront, we'll be okay Eventhough we're separated in
different buildings, even thoughwe don't fellowship all the
time, but when we do cometogether, that's the important
part.
Who have we put our faith inand all these differences melt
away.
BT Irwin (36:27):
I want to thank the three of you for for making time
to to answer our questionstoday and work through some of
this stuff with us, and I lovethe work you're doing.
We're gonna drop links in theshow notes to your work and to
the chronicles coverage and hopethat people you know know there
(36:48):
are people.
Let's see our podcasts.
I think 112 nations, all 50states.
We have listeners in all ofthose.
So I love it when peopleChristians all over the world
hear an episode like this and Ilove it when people over the
United States hear an episodelike this.
So thank you for speaking toall of them today.
Alonzo Rojo (37:10):
Thank you for having us.
Thank you again, yeah, for thisopportunity.
This was a blessing, this wasan honor.
Thank you so much, sir.
Yazmin Tabares (37:19):
Thank you.
Thank you for having us.
It was great.
BT Irwin (37:22):
Alonzo, kevin and Yasmeen, thank you for exposing
our audience to a part of ourChristian family that we may not
have known about before today.
It's been a pleasure listeningto you and to our audience.
Our guest today asked me toshare with you that if you know
any young people who wouldbenefit from Hovenus for Christ,
or if you would want to knowmore so you can support the
ministry yourself, please checkthem out at hovenusforchristcom.
(37:44):
That's J-O-V-E-N-E-S.
The number 4christcom.
We'll put a link in the shownotes.
We hope that something you heardin this episode encouraged,
enlightened or enriched you insome way.
If it did, thanks be to God andplease pay it forward.
Subscribe to this podcast andshare it with a friend.
Recommend and review itwherever you listen to your
(38:04):
favorite podcasts.
Your subscription,recommendation and review help
us reach more people and pleasesend your comments, ideas and
suggestions to podcast atchristianchronicleorg.
Don't forget our ministry toinform and inspire Christians
and congregations around theworld is a non-profit ministry
that relies on the generosity ofpeople like you.
(38:25):
So if you like the show and youwant to keep it going and make
it even better, please make atax-deductible gift to the
Christian Chronicle atchristianchronicleorg.
Slash donate.
The Christian Chronicle podcastis a production of the
Christian Chronicle Incorporated, informing and inspiring Church
of Christ congregations,members and ministries around
(38:45):
the world since 1943.
The Christian Chronicle'smanaging editor is Calvin
Cockrell.
Thank you.
Family and friends, neighbors and, most of all,
strangers.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle Podcast.
We're bringing you the storiesshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
I'm BT Irwin.
May what you are about to hear.
Bless you and honor God.
My roots are in the South.
My entire family, on bothparents' sides, are from places
(00:27):
like Alabama and Tennessee.
I grew up visiting extendedfamily in Tennessee every year
and I went to college and gradschool in Arkansas and Texas,
but I've lived almost my entirelife in the Great Lakes region
in the North, and here's what'sweird about that.
Around Michigan, where I live,people hear me speak and assume
(00:48):
that I'm from the south, andwhen I'm in the south, people
hear me speak and assume I'mfrom the north, even though my
entire family and my heritage issouthern to this day, and it
brings up feelings of wonderingwhere I really fit.
To some in the North I seem tooSouthern and some in the South
have not.
Let me forget that I am a quoteYankee.
(01:09):
This is an example of what it'slike to be from a particular
culture and place in the worldbut to live in a different one.
When you're present in one,it's hard to hold on to the
other, and when you try to holdon to one, it may feel like it
comes at the cost of the onewhere you're actually present.
This is the situation for manyChurch of Christ youth who are
growing up in the United Statesbut are of Latin American
(01:30):
descent.
They are English speakers, butthey attend churches and live in
homes where Spanish remains theday-to-day language.
It's not that they don't lovethe culture and heritage from
which they come.
It's that the outside,english-speaking world in which
they live is what they know.
So, from day to day, they haveto learn to live in the tension.
Life is hard enough on its own.
(01:50):
Living life in two worlds atthe same time is even harder.
It is for these youngChristians that Hovenus for
Christ exists.
Hovenus for Christ is a camp forEnglish-speaking Christian
young people who are growing upin bilingual or Spanish-speaking
congregations and homes.
In addition to making space forthese Christians and their
unique circumstances, hovindasraises money to provide
(02:12):
scholarships for them to attendcolleges and universities from
the Church of Christ heritage.
The Christian Chroniclerecently featured Hovindas for
Christ when tragedy struck theministry last December.
Juan Ramon Rubio, one of thefounders, died in a car crash on
his way home from a planningsession for this year's camp at
Abilene Christian University.
He was 32 years old, but, asJesus says, a seed that falls to
(02:35):
the ground will bear much fruit, and Hovenus for Christ is
carrying on and growing.
This summer, a record 240campers attended Hovenus for
Christ, a testament to Rubio'shard work and love for young
Christians growing up inbilingual spaces.
Today we have three of his goodfriends who are carrying on the
work of Hovenus for Christ.
They are the current officersof the ministry's board.
(02:56):
Alonzo Rojo is youth ministerwith Robinson Avenue Iglesia de
Cristo in Springdale, arkansas.
Kevin Rivera is youth and youngadults minister with Lakeview
Iglesia de Cristo in Gardale,arkansas.
Kevin Rivera is Youth and YoungAdults Minister with Lakeview
Iglesia de Cristo in Garland,texas.
And Yasmin Tabarez teacheschildren at Robinson Avenue
Iglesia de Cristo.
And.
Yasmin Tabarez teaches childrenat Robinson Avenue Iglesia de
Cristo in Springdale, arkansas.
(03:16):
Alonzo, kevin, yasmin, thankyou for being with us today.
Alonzo Rojo (03:20):
No, thank you for having us.
I'm excited to be here for thisopportunity to share about
Hovenus for Christ.
Kevin Rivera (03:27):
Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity.
BT Irwin (03:41):
Hovenus for Christ occupies a space, I reckon, most
of our United States, becausethey were born here but growing
up in bilingual orSpanish-speaking churches and
homes.
What is life like for theseyoung Christians, and what is
Hovenus for Christ trying to dofor and with them?
Kevin Rivera (03:58):
Yeah, just growing up in a bilingual household and
bilingual church, you know thelife is just.
You know, like any other personlike has family or heritage
from a different country, justjumping from one world to
another, living, you know, in aspanned household and then, you
know, jumping into, you know,when you go outside your house
it's a different world in somesense.
(04:19):
And holiness for I think wehave created a space where, even
though we grew up in thiscountry speaking English, maybe
more so, or perhaps bothlanguages, but more of this
generation, english, it's moreEnglish dominant, and Holiness
for Christ offers them thatspace where they can be who they
(04:42):
are.
We can meet them where they'reat.
They can be who they are.
We can meet them where they'reat, and even if they don't know
Spanish that well, they couldcome at this camp and worship in
a language that they'recomfortable with and not feel
any perhaps shame or guilt fornot knowing the language.
And one of the other things, too, is part of our mission as
(05:02):
Prophets of Christ is promotinghigher education.
That's why we have our camps atchristian universities and we
try to help them with somescholarship money as well to buy
books or other things that theyneed, and so we want these kids
to basically take over futureand we're trying to prepare the
next generation, and I knoweducation is a huge part of that
(05:25):
yeah, no, I agree with kevin, Ithink.
Alonzo Rojo (05:29):
I think a lot of us live in the hyphen in the in
between, like we're hispanic butmight not speak spanish
perfectly, but we're fromamerica a lot of the times but
don't look anglo and so like,like that can be a hard place to
live in.
You change your backdropdepending on where you're at.
So I think Hovind is Kevin'sright.
(05:51):
Hovind is just creating thatspace, that in between, for
those kids that can have a placewhere they can be themselves,
where we can talk about theChankla, which is the sandal,
and like I don't know if youknow what that is, which is the
sandal, and like I don't know ifyou know what that is.
That strikes fear into the,into kids when they hear it,
like they get scared.
That's, it's like the belt, it'sjust a you know like.
(06:12):
Oh, yeah, you know.
So like, but like I wouldn'thave to explain that they would
understand what I'm talkingabout when I say la chancla.
So just little references likethat.
Like we're creating a spacewhere they can understand our
references, understand wherewe're coming from.
It's just a space where we allhave the same thing in common.
(06:36):
We live in that hyphen and weunderstand where they're coming
from, and I think that's whatHovind is.
That's why it was created tofill that void.
Yazmin Tabares (06:45):
That was there I think also like it's a safe
space and like everyone kind ofknows everyone, like truly, we
started instagram for hovenestuntil this year, like a lot of
our promotion was word of mouth,so it's like a lot of the kids
just enjoy it that much thatthey're like they tell their
friends, hey, come to here, comehere, come here.
And we get over about 200people just by kids doing that
(07:11):
and it's just like, like whatthey said, it's just a safe
place where they can bethemselves, where you make
connections, where you haveconnections from dallas, from
houston, and then when you cometogether it's like you don't
miss a second I'm trying to usemy imagination to enter into
this, this space, where, wherey'all live and where Hoveness
(07:32):
for Christ lives, and I'm goingto do my best here.
BT Irwin (07:35):
This may be kind of crude, but my whole family on my
dad's side of my mom's side arefrom the South, so Tennessee on
my dad's side and my mom's sideare from the South, so
Tennessee, and I am the onlyperson in my family doesn't live
in the South.
So we're Southerners going backgenerations and I live in
(07:56):
Michigan and so here in Michiganpeople hear me talk and they
sometimes think oh, you're fromthe South, you're not from
around here, even though I'velived up North pretty much my
whole life, and then my familyfrom the South.
They're always like so when areyou moving back?
You know like when are youfinally going to like come back
(08:17):
where you belong?
And I'm like well, I'm veryhappy living in Michigan and the
summers are not as hot, so Idon't plan on coming back.
And so I know that's kind of acrude.
You know that doesn't quite getto what young people who are
coming from Spanish speakinghomes are going through.
(08:37):
I'm just trying to use myimagination to enter into a
little bit of that tension there, that they might feel a little
bit of that tension there, thatthey might feel am I, is my
example just ridiculous, or doesit?
Does it touch just a little biton on what life is like?
Alonzo Rojo (08:51):
I think it's pretty accurate, maybe just a little
bit more extreme.
But even within the spanishworld you know a lot, you know
latin america, like withinmexico, el salvador.
There's differences there,there's tension there.
So like you come to America andlike we're thrown all into the
same pot and so like.
(09:12):
We feel a lot of that tension,and so I think it's very
accurate example of what it'slike.
BT Irwin (09:21):
It's a sin to be jealous, right, but I'm a little
bit jealous of people who canspeak two languages, because I
only speak one, and I'mespecially jealous of people who
can speak Spanish, because it'ssuch a beautiful and elegant
language and more people aroundme speak it now.
So when I imagine being a youngperson growing up in a bilingual
(09:41):
church or home, that soundsamazing to me, and I'm sure that
a lot of things about that areamazing.
But what I was getting at iswhat are some of the challenges
that someone like me, who's likeoh, it'd be amazing to be
bilingual, or growing up in abilingual space with a language
like Spanish, just can't evenimagine or I just wouldn't even
(10:03):
know about.
And you used one example asecond ago, what I would call
like an inside joke, that somepeople get and other people
wouldn't get.
But like there are the, thereare the parts of life that just
don't occur to people like me,because I'm not in the situation
myself, and so I I wonder ifthere's any more that you could,
you could share about that, forwhat I expect our audiences is
(10:27):
probably a lot like me.
Yazmin Tabares (10:28):
What I can think about is like when you're
trying to say something inSpanish, but trying to, but you
can only think of the Englishword, and you're like wait, like
, like, like this, you know, andthey're like no, you I don't
know, know, because they want tohear it in spanish, and so like
it's just like you know theword, or you know what you're
(10:49):
trying to say, but it's not inthe right language.
So it's like your mind is kindof stuck in the middle yeah,
yeah, I gotta.
Kevin Rivera (10:58):
We had an event in our church and like a bible
bowl type of thing, and theanswer was the Philippians, but
I was trying to say it inSpanish, which is pretty
expensive, but then I ended upsaying Filipinas, which is the
Philippines.
I just arrived from thePhilippines that day and like
(11:23):
the mental juggle in my mind isjust trying to answer it as
quickly as possible as well, toget it again.
And so, yeah, it's me and Coach, based on that and like yeah,
we kind of do that sometimes inthe world of bilingual or
Spanglish.
You know, we'll speak Englishand then throw in Spanish and
throw in some, some Englishwords.
(11:43):
But at the same time, one thingtoo is like you know, most of
these kids like this kind ofgets into that We'll just got
them talking about.
Some of them are losing theirSpanish speaking ability and
because English has begun sopervasive in our language and
(12:04):
even slips in into Spanish, youknow, english is influencing our
language as well.
And also like when we, when ourabuelos, come to visit us, we
go visit them in their homecountry.
There's that language andcultural barrier as well.
We're just so used to growingup here in a certain way, and
(12:28):
you know when they're from thecampo, you know from the country
, like they speak really, reallyfast, and like you don't know
Spanish that well, you're goingto miss out on what they're
saying.
You know there's a perhaps likean ongoing debate too, if we
should have a bilingual church,and you know what does that
actually mean a bilingual church, a bilingual church.
What does that actually mean Abilingual church?
(12:51):
Because at my church, ourchurch service is in Spanish,
but what I do is everything inEnglish, and other churches are
literally bilingual where theyhave everything in English and
Spanish.
Another person on board serveshe's a preacher at a bilingual
church in Nixon, texas, an houraway from San Antonio.
(13:12):
I talked to him about that andhe said that he could do it, but
it's very exhausting.
Yeah, he's exhausted at the endof the sermon just because
jumping back and forth from thelanguage, it's an actual job too
.
There are interpreters outthere, and so when it comes to
(13:33):
people wanting to do bilingual,if it works for the church,
great.
It does take skill, it doestake an art form to do it as
well.
Yazmin Tabares (13:43):
So it's not as simple as it sounds.
I think about how, even withinHispanic communities, we're
Mexican, so we understand thelanguage, the Spanish that we
speak, but Kevin will sometimessay something he's Salvadorian
and we're like.
What does that mean, kevin?
I think it's different types ofSpanish too.
Kevin Rivera (14:04):
We had a guy from our church go preach at a church
in El Salvador.
He's Mexican and he probablygot half of his sermon.
It is a different way of howthey speak and some of the
things that he said it just wentright over their heads.
Alonzo Rojo (14:21):
Yeah.
Kevin Rivera (14:23):
We do have, believe it or not, a
miscommunication as well, eventhough we're speaking the same
language.
BT Irwin (14:28):
Yeah, y'all, minister, among young English-speaking
Christians of Latin Americandescent who are growing up here
in the United States.
Parents, grandparents, areimmigrants and they're growing
up in churches and homes thatretain some of their Latin
American culture and identity,especially their language.
But they're also the youngpeople that you work with are
(14:52):
assimilating to life in theUnited States, as you pointed
out.
What are some of the bigchallenges or concerns that are
top of mind these days for thoseyoung Christians?
Alonzo Rojo (15:02):
I think, you know, we've created all these
different events, differentthings they can go to, but
sometimes when they go home, itdoesn't look the same and it's
all in Spanish, and a lot ofthese kids only speak English or
their Spanish isn't the best,and what they're experiencing
with us is not the same at home,and there's that fear that
(15:25):
they'll go look elsewhere forthat belonging, where they can
worship in English and Spanishand still have that community,
and I think that's a bigchallenge.
I think a lot of our Spanishchurches are staying Spanish
only and don't realize that weneed to adapt to what the young
(15:47):
people need, and that's abilingual service that caters to
our young people as well.
And so that's.
You know, one of my big fearsis we're doing all this work,
but at home are they being fedand are they growing Because and
so I would say that's one ofthe biggest challenges.
Kevin Rivera (16:07):
Every church has its own challenge, that is, to
what language and what languagewe use the best, and so I
remember doing a survey when Igot back to Texas in 2019, when
I took over the youth group, andI had them answer questions.
If y'all want to haveeverything done in Spanish
(16:27):
English bilingual you're neutralabout it.
Basically, all of them saidmore English, or neutral maybe
once in Spanish, but mainly allof them said English.
And it's not that they don'tunderstand Spanish Most of them
are bilingual but even with thebilingual kids, they can easily
(16:54):
be tuned out of a sermon that isspeaking only Because the
people that are preaching in thepulpit bring a lot of their own
heritage and culture.
That happened back in the day.
It does not represent who thekids are today and so they can't
relate to that.
And I know the job of apreacher is, you can't make
everyone happy, you can'tcommunicate with every single
(17:17):
body, maybe at different pointswhen you're preaching.
But I think that's just, youknow, one of the challenges too.
And also, you know, in mycontext, you know, and it speaks
to the broader picture as well,we were just at Green Valley
Youth Camp and the theme wasconsider the birds and the
(17:39):
lilies.
You know, do not worry, youknow it speaks to the great
context of this generation ofthem being anxious.
You know, into the greatcontext of this generation of
them being anxious.
And when I got back to Texas, Inever heard the pain of anxiety
with these kids.
You know, when I was growing upI never dealt with that, and
these kids are dealing with thatso much, even suicidal thoughts
(18:03):
, and providing for theirfamilies too.
If they have a single parenthousehold, they want their kids
to help out with.
You know, providing to sustainthemselves, and everyone's
different, but as a result, youknow, they're always working,
always trying to make that moneythey're they're, they're in the
(18:25):
pursuit of money, more so thananything else, just so that they
can sustain themselves.
And I know, you know, holdingfor Christ in these camps, that
we do it gives them a break fromthe outside world and allow
them to be who they are.
And you know, I think that'swhy when they that's why jr
(18:48):
wanted to start this andspearhead this.
It was very good at meeting thewhole one is where they're at
and and we're just trying to dothe same, but it is.
It is a lot, of, a lot of workthat we do great things.
I can't but like a lot of thesame how they're being fed at
home too yeah you know, I thinkof my kids.
Alonzo Rojo (19:10):
I'm married to, you know, somebody that's anglo,
and so at home we speak englishand my kids understand spanish,
because we go to a spanishcongregation and my moms only
speak spanish, but they don'treally speak it and what?
What they understand is minimal.
So, like, I think of my kids inthe future how am I going to
(19:33):
make sure that they're being fed?
And you know, I've been prayinga lot about it and, like, do I
need to talk to the leadershipabout?
There needs to be a shift,because my kids are not the only
kids that don't understandSpanish.
I know kids in my youth groupthat don't and they just sit
there and I don't want that.
(19:54):
You know, like I want them togrow, to want to grow, and so
that it's it's the biggestchallenges.
Are we providing, are wemeeting these kids where they're
at?
Yazmin Tabares (20:05):
And you know, lord willing, a lot of churches
will start to move thatdirection, but we'll see I think
kevin was right about how jrwould meet kids where they're at
, and that's just adapting withthe new generation, where it's
like the reality of the newgeneration is that when their
parents are born here, theyspeak.
(20:25):
Their parents already speakenglish and they're only
learning english.
For example, how long was wastalking about his kids and I
think for me it's just like it'sreally like difficult to say
that too, because then it's justlike you want to meet them
where they're at and we do.
Like I teach littles on at ourchurch.
I teach from three-year-olds tosix-year-olds and if I teach
(20:50):
only in spanish, it's hard forthem to understand for some of
them, which is why I make myclass bilingual and even if it
takes a little bit longer, Ijust like I think about, like I
need to.
They need to be learning this,they need to learn the knowledge
, and even if it takes me alittle bit longer, like the kids
, like how do I explain it?
BT Irwin (21:12):
like when they keep growing up and they move up to
other classes, they're not goingto learn everything that they
need to if I'm only teaching inspanish, because it's always
about meeting them where they'reat I like how y'all have talked
about this, because to so manyof us who are outsiders to the
space you occupy, we may nothave a way to imagine what it is
(21:39):
like, but I think in the waythat you've just described this,
it presents it as somethingmost of us are familiar with,
which is a generational I don'twant to say divide, but even in
an English-speaking churchthat's always been an
English-speaking church andChurch of Christ folks are
(22:00):
really familiar with this.
You'll have older generationsthat sing certain songs and
maybe use certain translationsof the Bible and speak in
certain ways, and then you haveyounger generations that prefer
different music and differenttranslations of the Bible, and
(22:21):
so there's a disconnect betweenolder generations and younger
generations.
And so I know a lot ofcongregations they're
English-speaking congregationsthat are trying to figure out
how do we meet the needs ofeveryone here, these different
generations that are in our pewsevery week.
How do the older folks servethe younger folks and be
(22:44):
considerate of the younger folksand what they need, and, at the
same time, how do we teach ouryounger folks and be considerate
of the younger folks and whatthey need and, at the same time,
how do we teach our youngerfolks to be considerate of and
thoughtful of the older folksand what they need.
And so I like the way you'vedescribed this, because I think
the situation you described isfamiliar to a lot of people that
care about the church and careabout each other.
(23:05):
They just probably have neverthought about it the way that
y'all are experiencing it.
Alonzo Rojo (23:09):
I think you're right.
It is a generational gap.
I think you know a lot of ourparents that came over.
They are Hispanic, they'reMexican, they're also the
Southern Indians, so theirculture is so different than
ours here.
And it is this like culturebattle between the hispanics and
(23:33):
generational battle.
And if we don't learn to adapt,be it anglo or be it whatever
nationality you are, you willlose a generation if you're not
catering to their needs.
That doesn't mean change thedoctrine or anything like that.
It's just how you approach.
It is different and I seethat's why Holiness for Christ
(23:56):
was created.
There were so many events thatwere Spanish only, that were
great, but there was a group ofkids that stopped going because
they didn't understand.
And so how do we reach thosekids?
Oh, we can create something.
We can still have spanish onlyevents but also have bilingual
events, and we can still go to,you know, english or anglo
(24:18):
events.
Let's I take a lot of my kidsto anglo events.
Like I don't want to just getin this bubble.
We are the body of christ andthere's many avenues where we
can learn and grow.
Kevin Rivera (24:29):
At some point you've got to pass the keys to
the next generation and thepeople that came to JR at the
very beginning, where they cameup with this idea.
What Alonzo was saying, there'sall this Spanish event.
We're missing the need of mostof these kids that want to have
more.
They're just more Englishinclined and like they saw a
(24:51):
need, and I think I'm not sureif all of them.
I don't know if you can speakon it, I'm not sure if all of
them knew English, but they knewit's not going to take them,
it's going to take somebody elseto do it, and I'm not sure if
(25:15):
it's being stubborn, prideful,prideful, but most of our
respect is make it I don't knowI'm using the correct word like
doctrine or it's a sin if youmove away from the language or
from the culture and I thinkthat's what Alonzo was saying
we're going to miss out on howto serve these kids adequately,
and if you're not equipped withit, that's totally fine.
(25:35):
But we could be honest withourselves.
You know what I'm doing is nothelping, and so that's why I'm
saying how can we pass on thekeys to the next generation?
And so the future of theHispanic church is just going to
look different in manydifferent ways.
It's probably more bilingual,or English-inclined, and
(25:59):
multi-ethnic multilingual.
Most of us are like a littlemarried, a little married, a
white girl, and so there's a lotof interracial marriages, and
so which is after?
It's just what it is, you know.
And the church is no different.
If we're not trying to dosomething right now for them,
(26:20):
they're just going to go off todifferent churches, and so
that's why we have created allthese other retreats, that's why
we have created all these othercamps, and so that if they want
to go, that's fine, but we'redoing what we can to serve you
guys here, and so, especiallywith our young adult retreat
it's nothing new we don't serveour young adults at all in our
(26:42):
Hispanic churches, and so wedecided to create an Atlanta
just for young adults only, andso there's a lot of pieces to
this, but in the future I thinkit's just going to look a tad
bit different.
Alonzo Rojo (26:59):
You know, I think when the Spanish churches really
started popping off in theUnited States, there was that
need of Spanish-speakingcongregations.
You know there was a largeinflux of immigrants coming to
America, so it made sense thatthey were Spanish only.
You know, and I think, where alot of these congregations and
(27:20):
maybe preachers and eldershipshave have missed the boat is we
don't have a large influx, likewe did, of immigrants coming
that only need Spanish.
Our influx now is those peoplethat came, had kids and those
people are having kids, andthat's the generation I think
we're trying to reach and that'sthe generation that if we don't
(27:42):
move we'll get lost.
But yeah, so I think it's justshifting and, like I said,
filling that void.
I think that's our biggestthing.
If you want to call thisepisode anything, it's just
called filling the void thankyou, first guest to ever suggest
the title for me.
BT Irwin (28:01):
I like that it's always so hard to title an
episode.
You just made my job so easy.
That's funny, one of the thingsthat I'm thinking about, because
I'm almost 50, I feel like I'm25.
I still feel like I'm young,but then things remind me that
I'm not.
And I'm reaching that age nowwhere I'm starting to feel that
(28:23):
disconnect with the youngerpeople in my church.
To feel that disconnect withthe younger people in my church
because I grew up in a certainchurch culture and we had music
and we had language and we hadtraditions that I grew up in and
I cherish those things and theymean a lot to me.
But then, in order to connectwith and reach the younger
(28:44):
people in our congregations, inour church, we have to let some
of those things go to make roomfor new things, and that is a
loss for me.
I'm starting to feel the loss.
I'm starting to feel the griefand the sadness of having to let
go of things that are preciousto me to make room for new
(29:07):
things that are precious to theyoung people.
And I just don't know how awarewe are sometimes of how that's
really going on.
And what we do because humanbeings are really not rational
creatures, we're desiringcreatures and we rationalize our
desires is we will bring inthings like the Bible to
rationalize our point of view,and so what you're describing
(29:36):
here in your context, I think,really is familiar to so many
people.
It's not a language thing, it'snot going from Spanish to
English speaking, letting go ofsome parts of, maybe, a culture
that your parents orgrandparents left behind in
another country, be a culturethat your parents or
grandparents left behind inanother country, but I think
everyone listening to this who'sbeen a part of a congregation
for a long time can resonatewith some of the things you're
sharing here.
So thank you for opening oureyes.
(29:58):
I just want to riff with you onone final question here, and
it's a long one, so forgive me.
I think it's a question thatchallenges a lot of apprentices
and students of Jesus Christ whosojourn here in the United
States these days.
On one hand, the kingdom of Godis multicultural, multiethnic,
multilingual, multinational.
(30:19):
I think most Church of Christfolks believe this.
So in our better moments wecall for inclusion and unity,
even if we're not so good atpracticing it most of the time.
I believe most Church of Christfolks aspire to inclusion and
unity on biblical grounds, but,on the other hand, I think most
of us also believe that there isa place and time to come away
(30:43):
and celebrate the particularcultures or what I'll call
heritage groups among us.
For example, I think some ofour listeners would agree it's a
gift from God for a bunch ofSEC football fans to gather for
a tailgate party on a Saturdayafternoon in October.
As a Big Ten guy from Ohio, Ican appreciate SEC football fans
, but I am not one of them and Idon't fit in there except as a
(31:06):
visitor.
So here's my point.
In theory, the Church of Christcan hold on to two things at the
same time.
We can hold on to the vision ofa multicultural, multi-ethnic,
multilingual, multinationalkingdom of God that draws all of
humanity together as one, andwe can hold on to the idea that
there can be a place and timefor cultures or heritage groups
(31:28):
within that kingdom to gatherand celebrate what they love
about themselves.
But I don't know if we havefigured out how to do both in
the real life of the church inthe world.
Hoveness for Christ, because itministers with young Christians
who are wholly English-speakingAmericans and Holy
Spanish-speaking Latin Americans, may have more practice than
(31:50):
most of us at making space forboth the plurality of the
kingdom of God and the specialcultures and peoples within it.
So I wonder if you can sharewith our very curious audience
what you've learned about beingthe church in that space,
because the rest of us wouldreally like to know.
Kevin Rivera (32:08):
Well, I'm the same with you, bradley.
I'm not with the SEC.
I don't even know what thatmeans.
It's college football.
I don't watch college football.
I could talk about theChampions League.
I could talk about La LigaSerie A.
You know what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about la liga.
You know what I'm talking about.
(32:28):
I'm talking about soccer, butyou said you'd be a visit to
that, and so I think that youknow that's a good example of,
you know, basically trying tobridge the gap right, trying to
just fellowship with ourbrothers and sisters in christ
that look different, that speakdifferent.
(32:49):
And you know, talked about earlyon about, you know, bilingual
churches, and you know myfeeling towards that.
I even in our own Hispaniccommunities, we just speak
(33:13):
differently, and it could beshown more of that difference if
we try to force unity as well.
And so one of the best waysthat we can at least bridge that
gap is, you know, each one'sculture coming together every
now and then.
We have a quarterly bilingualservice here and we bring our
(33:34):
own dishes, you know, from ourown country, and the angles just
love it.
They just bring pizza.
No, I'm kidding, that's one ofthe way that that we can, we can
, we can celebrate and just cometogether as one, and I think in
the future, though, that canlook more of how we want it, you
(33:56):
know, just because it's goingto look different and I think
everyone's going to be speakingthe same language too, or be
worshiping the same language,and everything's going to be
multi-ethnic, multi-racial, andso that in the future, I can,
that can, we can literally seethat in the meantime, little
(34:16):
moments, little, you know,events that we can hold together
.
We're going to celebrate oneanother and worship together and
fellowship with one another.
Alonzo Rojo (34:25):
Like you said, be a visitor on hospitality, you
know we can be the host today,god can be the host another day,
and so just you know having tobridge that gap, you know, every
night of the year, you know, Ithink I've learned that, yes, we
have many differences butthere's one thing that unites us
(34:45):
and that's our belief in JesusChrist and who he is, and that
he died for us and rose on thethird day for us.
And you know, I think if when Igo with to anglo events, like I
don't really focus on I'm theonly hispanic as much as I used
to because those are my brothersin Christ, and when I go to
(35:09):
Hoveness, like, I don't say likeoh, these are all Hispanics
that look and sound like me.
We're here to worship God,we're here to learn about God.
And, you know, be it that anAnglo-African American comes or
anybody comes to Hoveness, likethat's a brother in Christ.
And I loved it this year so muchbecause my brother-in-law, he's
(35:29):
Anglo and we were talking atdinner once about it and he's
like I want to go, and then Itold him come and he's like well
, they understand me.
I was like, brother, we speakEnglish and he was like, okay,
and he came and he loved it, hedidn't feel like an outsider, he
(35:51):
taught about Christ and I thinkthat's one of the most
important things.
Yes, we can have thesedifferent events that are
Spanish only English, only ledby Anglos, led by Hispanics, and
that's great.
We need those spaces, but wecan also fellowship and always
remember what brings us together, and if we were put that at the
(36:12):
forefront, we'll be okay Eventhough we're separated in
different buildings, even thoughwe don't fellowship all the
time, but when we do cometogether, that's the important
part.
Who have we put our faith inand all these differences melt
away.
BT Irwin (36:27):
I want to thank the three of you for for making time
to to answer our questionstoday and work through some of
this stuff with us, and I lovethe work you're doing.
We're gonna drop links in theshow notes to your work and to
the chronicles coverage and hopethat people you know know there
(36:48):
are people.
Let's see our podcasts.
I think 112 nations, all 50states.
We have listeners in all ofthose.
So I love it when peopleChristians all over the world
hear an episode like this and Ilove it when people over the
United States hear an episodelike this.
So thank you for speaking toall of them today.
Alonzo Rojo (37:10):
Thank you for having us.
Thank you again, yeah, for thisopportunity.
This was a blessing, this wasan honor.
Thank you so much, sir.
Yazmin Tabares (37:19):
Thank you.
Thank you for having us.
It was great.
BT Irwin (37:22):
Alonzo, kevin and Yasmeen, thank you for exposing
our audience to a part of ourChristian family that we may not
have known about before today.
It's been a pleasure listeningto you and to our audience.
Our guest today asked me toshare with you that if you know
any young people who wouldbenefit from Hovenus for Christ,
or if you would want to knowmore so you can support the
ministry yourself, please checkthem out at hovenusforchristcom.
(37:44):
That's J-O-V-E-N-E-S.
The number 4christcom.
We'll put a link in the shownotes.
We hope that something you heardin this episode encouraged,
enlightened or enriched you insome way.
If it did, thanks be to God andplease pay it forward.
Subscribe to this podcast andshare it with a friend.
Recommend and review itwherever you listen to your
(38:04):
favorite podcasts.
Your subscription,recommendation and review help
us reach more people and pleasesend your comments, ideas and
suggestions to podcast atchristianchronicleorg.
Don't forget our ministry toinform and inspire Christians
and congregations around theworld is a non-profit ministry
that relies on the generosity ofpeople like you.
(38:25):
So if you like the show and youwant to keep it going and make
it even better, please make atax-deductible gift to the
Christian Chronicle atchristianchronicleorg.
Slash donate.
The Christian Chronicle podcastis a production of the
Christian Chronicle Incorporated, informing and inspiring Church
of Christ congregations,members and ministries around
(38:45):
the world since 1943.
The Christian Chronicle'smanaging editor is Calvin
Cockrell.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com