When The Christian Chronicle covered and editorialized Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk's murder in September 2025, the reaction from our audience was big and hot.
Some Church of Christ folks expressed reverence for Kirk and regarded him as a Christian martyr. Others expressed anger and sadness at how he died, but emphasized that what he believed and how he expressed it did not represent them as Christians. Still others said they never heard of Kirk until his death.
In this episode, two young Christians, Charlie Kirk fans and followers, explain why he appealed to them so much. What about his life and teachings resonated with them?
And, from this, what might we learn about some members of the emerging generations in the Church of Christ?
Jeremiah Delcour and Keegan Haupt are leaders of the Turning Point USA chapter at Oklahoma Christian University, where they are students.
Link to Dr. Jeremie Beller's Christian Chronicle editorial on the aftermath of Charlie Kirk's death
Donate to support this ministry of "information and inspiration" at christianchronicle.org/donate
Send your comments, ideas, and suggestions to podcast@christianchronicle.org
Get the ultimate Bible study experience. Explore graduate studies in theology at Freed-Hardeman University at fhu.edu/chronicle.
Be the hands of Jesus. Get involved with Healing Hands International at hhi.org.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:03):
Family and friends, neighbors, and most of all,
strangers, welcome to theChristian Chronicle Podcast.
We're bringing you the storiesshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
I'm B.T.
Irwin.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
On September 10, 2025, CharlieKirk, a 31-year-old political
(00:23):
activist and media personality,was holding a public event for
about 3,000 people, most of themstudents, at Utah Valley
University in Oram, Utah, whenhe was shot and killed while
taking questions from theaudience.
Over the next few days, Iobserved a range of reactions
from folks in my Church ofChrist circles.
Some Church of Christ folkscalled Kirk, quote, a Christian
(00:45):
martyr.
They interpreted his death as acasualty of spiritual warfare
between the forces of good andevil.
Other Church of Christ folks hadnever even heard of Kirk until
his death.
The day after his murder, my momasked me, Do you know who
Charlie Kirk is?
I've never even heard of him.
And other Church of Christfolks, while condemning the sin
of murder and mourning the youngchildren and widow Kirk left
(01:06):
behind, pushed back oncharacterizations of Kirk as a
prophet and saint.
In particular, they cited whathe said about immigrants, people
of color, and women, and how hesaid it.
They also cautioned againstKirk's statements that seemed to
endorse giving Christianitycontrol over the U.S.
government and Christians'preferential treatment in U.S.
society.
(01:26):
One fact that is beyond disputeis that Kirk had an enormous and
growing influence on college ageAmericans on campuses across the
United States.
By 2025, Kirk's Turning PointUSA had chapters on more than
2,000 college and high schoolcampuses.
His podcast received between500,000 and 750,000 downloads
(01:47):
per day.
From what I observe, what madeKirk so attractive to so many
young Christians in particularwere his strong statements in
favor of Christianity andChristian values.
A lot of the traditionalbiblical values that Kirk
endorsed are in alignment withwhat a lot of Church of Christ
folks tend to believe.
The Christian Chroniclepublished both an editorial and
a report in response to Kirk'sdeath.
(02:09):
Let me tell you, they receivedmixed and passionate reactions
that you would expect.
Rather than go over all thatagain, I thought it would be
interesting to hear from some ofthe young Christians for whom
Charlie Kirk was an inspiration,role model, and teacher.
What about what Charlie Kirkbelieved and taught appeals to
these young Christians?
(02:29):
What might we learn not aboutpolitics in the United States,
but about a segment of the youngpeople growing up and coming of
age in our Church of Christcommunity here in the U.S.?
Out of the 14 colleges anduniversities in the United
States that have roots and tiesin the Church of Christ, two
have active Turning Point USAchapters, according to the
Turning Point USA website.
(02:51):
I reached out to both chapters,and the leaders of one of them
agreed to be on the show.
Today we welcome JeremiahDelcour and Keegan Haupt, who
lead the Turning Point USAchapter at Oklahoma Christian
University in Oklahoma City,Oklahoma.
Jeremiah is a sophomore criminaljustice major from Rough and
Reddy, California.
Great city name.
He plans to pursue a career inlaw enforcement.
(03:12):
Jeremiah is the vice presidentof the Turning Point USA chapter
at Oklahoma Christian.
Keegan Haupt is a sophomorebusiness management and
marketing major from Dallas,Texas.
He's the social media directorfor the Turning Point USA
chapter at Oklahoma Christian.
Jeremiah Keegan, thank you foragreeing to talk to all of us
today.
Absolutely.
Thank you for having us.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (03:32):
Thank you, sir.
SPEAKER_00 (03:33):
Let's start with this.
The day after Charlie Kirk'sdeath, my mom asked me, Do you
know Charlie Kirk?
And I said, Yeah, I know of him.
She said, I've never heard ofhim.
Who is he?
And in the days that followed, Icame across a lot of Church of
Christ folks who were just likemy mom.
They didn't know Charlie Kirk.
They didn't know anything abouthim.
(03:54):
And at the same time, I also ranacross a lot of Church of Christ
folks who revered Charlie Kirkand lamented his death as a
great loss.
So, in your own words, for thosein our Church of Christ
audience, and it is a diverseaudience from around the world,
there are those that didn't knowmuch about Charlie Kirk before
his death.
There are those who knew a lotabout him as you do.
Who was Charlie Kirk and why ishe important?
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
Yeah, so I mean, Charlie Kirk was above all, he
was a Christian, he was afather, he was a husband, but he
was also the founder andpresident of Turning Point USA.
Most people sort of saw CharlieKirk as simply being like the
college debate guy who spakespoke about politics.
However, he would often alsospeak on the importance of his
(04:40):
faith as a fundamental part ofhis life.
And he talked a lot about howfaith played a role in the
foundation of this great nationof the United States.
Charlie Kirk not only inspiredcountless people to have a
strong sense of civic duty, buthe also inspired many people to
be bold in their faith.
And I see the evidence of thisbecause of what happened shortly
(05:02):
after he died.
Like we saw record numbers ofchurch attendees following his
life.
You wouldn't see this one if hewas simply just a political
figure, and two, if God wasn'tat work through this devastating
situation.
SPEAKER_02 (05:14):
I've always seen Charlie Kirk as a man who stands
up for what he believes, and andyou follow that through to the
end.
And I I think that's why he'simportant, especially to me, is
as Christians, we're we'recalled to never give up what we
believe just because we'repersecuted.
The last thing that he he sharedwas the gospel uh before he was
he was taken from us.
(05:35):
And once when he was asked whathe wanted to be remembered for
if he if he died, he said hiscourage and his faith.
And for me, that's who CharlieKirk was, and that's why he's
important.
SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
Tell us your stories about how you first encountered
Charlie Kirk and Turning PointUSA.
What was the appeal that madeyou want to be a part of it all?
SPEAKER_01 (05:55):
So it was about it was about halfway through my
high school time.
I was in one of my worldviewclasses, we were starting to
study American politics andhistory.
And this sort of just startedthis interest in delving into
studying uh politics andconservative values.
I started listening to peoplelike Shapiro and uh a few other
political commentators.
(06:16):
And and while I had, while Iagreed a lot with what they
said, there was there wassomething that was missing.
And it was shortly after that Istarted listening to this man by
the name of Charlie Kirk.
And the thing that stood out tome that was different from
people like Ben Shapiro was thefact that he was a Christian.
He was coming from a biblicalperspective.
He would often he exemplified uhChristian character, uh, in the
(06:40):
sense that like he was humble,he was calm, he was kind.
He wasn't perfect by any means.
I mean, we're all human beings,we're we're imperfect.
But he came at it from abiblical standpoint, which was
something that stood up to me asa Christian, um, because I
believed that our faith shoulddetermine our political views.
So that was something that wasimportant to me.
(07:01):
And it was a few years later,2023, I was able to attend the
Turning Point USA America Fest,which is their biggest event
that they run every year.
I actually met Charlie Kirk inperson at that event and was
able to experience Turning PointUSA as a whole there.
And it ever since then, likethat sort of solidified my uh
love for this organization.
(07:21):
And then just, you know, gettingstarted with helping out with
like the social media and thecampus advertisement here on
campus.
Um at this chapter, it's it'sbeen a gift, and I'm so thankful
for it.
SPEAKER_02 (07:31):
So I kind of seen Charlie Kirk's videos and stuff,
but I didn't really know aboutTurning Point until this January
when our chapter actuallystarted.
I had our president now.
She approached me after one ofour political science classes
and said, Hey, we're starting aturning point USA chapter on
this campus.
I've you know, I've seen you inclass, you have pretty strong
(07:52):
opinions about this stuff.
Uh, would you like to be ourtreasurer?
That's that's the position Istarted in.
And I told her, I'm like, youknow, I I've never really heard
of Turning Point.
I don't want to jump intosupporting something without
knowing what it is, so let melook into that.
And she's like, Well, have youheard of this guy named Charlie
Kirk?
Like, yeah, you could say I'veheard of him.
And so uh, you know, she told meabout how how Kirk founded
(08:12):
Turning Point in 2012.
And from from there, I was kindof just diving in.
Yeah, with with this semester, II became our vice president.
And yeah, my my journey withTurning Point's been kind of
kind of short, but reallyimpactful in my life.
It's really helped me flush outwhat I believe and why I believe
(08:33):
it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:33):
I wonder if you could back up even further in
your lives to talk about who youunderstand yourselves to be as
people.
What about each one of you madeyou the kind of people that that
would want, that would be happyto find someone like Charlie
Kirk in Turning Point USA?
Keegan, you talked a little bitabout some of the classes you
(08:55):
took in high school, but justtake take our audience back a
little more into who you are aspeople, how you've developed as
human beings, as Christians, andthe kind of life that you're
trying to build for yourselves,what you're trying to accomplish
with your lives.
That's that's a pretty bigquestion.
Does it make sense to you?
SPEAKER_01 (09:11):
Yeah, I think I kind of get the gist of it.
So I mean, I was raised in aChristian household.
I have two wonderful parents.
I'm actually one of fivechildren.
So we, I mean, we were raised,we were homeschooled, we went to
church every week, we would havelike uh devotions, prayer time.
One of the things that my familywould do every single morning is
we would have worship, prayer,and a devotion together.
(09:33):
So I've I've been raised from ayoung age to, you know, know the
Word of God, we would memorizescripture and just learning
together.
Um, but also just beinghomeschooled, like I was able to
build deep connections with myfamily.
But then also through classeslike my worldview class in high
school, I was able to meetwonderful people, other
homeschool students like myself.
(09:54):
I I would say, like, uh I wouldattribute a lot of my uh uh
interest to this to my teacherfrom that worldview class.
Uh he he was very instrumentalin my life.
And he he taught me importantskills such as uh how to
critical critically think,thinking through what we believe
and why we believe it.
I believe that's so veryimportant for us because a lot
(10:15):
of people that we have this sortof mindset where uh whatever our
new source tells us, like that'swhat it is.
And I reject that idea.
I think that we should, youknow, I think listening to these
new sources is good, but I thinkthat we should, you know, listen
to these things and then thinkthrough and rationalize what we
heard and like then determine,like, hey, you know, is this
(10:38):
something that's valid?
Like, let's let's do someresearch.
We need to think through what webelieve and why we believe it.
And learning these skills from ayoung age, I think, has been
really helpful for me, at least.
SPEAKER_02 (10:48):
Yeah, for for me, I see myself as a servant mainly.
That that kind of led me to Kirkbecause that's what he did.
He he goes out on these collegecampuses and while he disagrees
with these people, he's outthere not to prove them wrong,
(11:10):
but to help them.
And that's kind of what a lot ofwhat what I learned growing up
on a farm.
If if our neighbors were weregoing through something, we go
over and help them, even if it'seven if it's like if we have to
go out of our way, I guess.
(11:31):
And yeah, so so growing up, I Iwas always taught to help
people.
I was always taught to to putothers above yourself.
And that's what Kirk did.
He was hated by a lot of people.
At first putting his name outthere with with his opinions, it
(11:53):
uh made people not like him asmuch, but he followed through,
and that's kind of how I wasraised.
SPEAKER_00 (11:57):
Thank you for sharing sharing your your
stories.
I just uh so much of thatresonates with me and where I
was when I was your age and andwhat I was looking for.
And it's personal, so thank youfor sharing that with our
audience.
I want to ask you one questionabout turning point USA.
You've had a big part inbringing a chapter to Oklahoma
(12:18):
Christian University because uhthat's actually interesting
because uh outsiders like metend to think that Charlie
Kirk's project was to putturning point chapters on what
we might call liberal or secularpublic university campuses.
So putting a turning point USAchapter at Oklahoma Christian
may seem a little like preachingto the choir.
(12:39):
So what are your goals forplanting turning point at your
at your school?
What do you hope to accomplishon your campus there?
SPEAKER_02 (12:46):
I I'm hoping to achieve conversation.
Conversation is how we learn asa society.
So while this is a moreChristian and more conservative
campus than others, there arestill people who might disagree
with us.
But even for people who do agreewith us, isn't it's still
important to have conversationbecause again, uh I've talked to
a lot of people who I agree withon topics, but they don't
(13:09):
understand why they agree withme.
And I I've I've asked them, I'mlike, okay, so you've said that
you agree with me on thisstance, but why?
How did you get there?
And so that's that's what we'retrying to do.
Because when you go out into theworld with these beliefs that
you don't know why you believe,you can't defend them.
And it can it can reallychallenge your faith.
Because, you know, with turningpoint, it's a political
organization, but on thiscampus, we really focus in on
(13:31):
the faith side of turning point.
And so I I really believe it'simportant to talk about why we
believe what we believe so thatwhen we get out into the world,
we can defend our faith andwitness to others.
SPEAKER_01 (13:42):
While it may seem like this turning point wasn't,
you know, set up to like debateliberals or to prove that we're
somehow smarter than people.
The goal is to haveconversations and make people
think critically.
It's it's never really beenabout trying to, I don't know,
like convert you to one side oranother.
It's and while that might bepart of it, the main thing is we
(14:07):
want you to know what youbelieve and why you believe it,
whether you agree with us ornot.
But like on our can'c campusspecifically, we have a a I'd
say a majority conservativecampus, but again, sort of like
what Jeremiah was saying, wewant people to know, you know,
the why behind what theybelieve.
But also, I mean, there'sthere's a lot of people here
who've bought into this worldlylie of what it means to love.
(14:28):
And so that's been a big focusfor us is we're we're looking
back at the Bible.
First First Corinthians 13,which a lot of people refer to
as the love chapter, literallysays that love does not rejoice
in wrongdoing, nor does it seekin its own way, but rather it
rejoices in truth.
So we our primary focus iscombating issues such as uh
homosexuality, transgenderism,abortion, immigration, and
(14:52):
trying to answer these from astrict strictly from a biblical
perspective.
So that's been a big focus forus is just coming from it from
uh let's look at it from a faithstandpoint, and then let's also
just look at the the why behindwhat we believe.
SPEAKER_00 (15:08):
I bet a lot of people listening to this don't
actually know what a turningpoint chapter does on a college
campus, and it may depend onwhich college campus.
So you've just you've justexplained a little bit about
what you hope to accomplishthere at Oklahoma Christian.
For those audience members whoare not familiar, what what does
a turning point USA chapter doat Oklahoma Christian, for
(15:33):
example?
SPEAKER_02 (15:33):
Yeah, so our chapter, we host tabling events
where we'll be out withdifferent signs and all that,
and basically we'll we'll make aclaim.
And so I guess for example, ournext one is going to be we're
gonna be tabling on abortion andand the evils of abortion.
So we'll go out there and we'llhave that sign and we'll discuss
with people their beliefs, andwe'll have some form of like
(15:54):
interactions.
So like we did a Maha event, uh,which is Make America Healthy
again, and we had like a push-upcontest.
So like that's tabling events.
We'll we'll we'll also uh hostspeakers.
So like last night we hosted uhMr.
Amani of Blexit.
He came and spoke.
He's a life coach, motivationalspeaker.
And so we also plan on havingspeakers come and speak on those
(16:17):
topics as well to help keep usinformed because if we just talk
amongst ourselves, we're notbringing in new information.
So turning point allows us tobring in speakers who are more
informed than us to help uscontinue learning.
And then also we they have likesummits and whatnot.
So, like America Fest overWinter Break, over this past
summer.
Keegan and I were both luckyenough to go to both the chapter
(16:40):
leadership summit and thestudent action summit, where
they had many speakers such aslike Pete Heggseth and Christy
Gnome.
And so, again, really just theseevents where we can broaden our
horizon by listening todifferent opinions.
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
Yeah, and then on top of that, we'll we host uh
monthly member meetings in whichwe sort of inform our members on
what we've been doing, what weplan on doing, and then we give
them an opportunity to um puttheir input in on like what they
want to see on our campus.
So we give our members a voicein that.
We also we're starting up thismonth, we're doing like
community service.
So we're gonna go volunteer atfood pantries, we're gonna do uh
(17:16):
like trash pickup days, stufflike that, just to be involved
in the community to try and makethe world a better place.
And then we also we just we dosome for fun events.
So like earlier this year, wehad our event, the Grill and
Chill.
We just we provided food foreveryone.
We cooked out, it's just a funtime of community growing
together as friends andcolleagues, brothers and sisters
in Christ.
(17:36):
So I mean that that's themajority of what we do here on
this campus.
But then we also have uh activesocial media, so that's a way
that we're able to communicatewith uh members here and then
also just other people aroundthe community, the states, and
other countries.
SPEAKER_00 (17:49):
Because I am not familiar with Turning Points or
with Charlie Kirk, I I knowabout them, but I'm not
familiar.
So I don't have any personalinteraction or personal
knowledge.
Most of what I know is what I'veheard or read about through
other sources.
I am certain that what you justsaid a moment ago got some
(18:13):
people driving in their cars orcooking in their kitchens or
working out at the gym, gottheir hackles up just a little
bit, and they would push back onyou a little bit and say, on the
one hand, Keegan and Jeremiah,you have said very clearly that
we want to know why we believewhat we believe.
We want to challenge ourselvesand challenge other people to
(18:33):
think and to explore and to takein information and think about
it critically.
But those people listening mightalso then come back and say, but
when you go to these turningpoint events, it seems like you
only hear from people thatalready agree with turning
points, points, major points.
So you mentioned Christy Noamand Pete Pete Hegseth, for
(18:56):
example, uh Jeremiah.
So to those people that wouldsay, are you are you sure you're
actually hearing a diversity ofopinions, or are you only
hearing from people that agreewith one side, educate us a
little more on how that works.
SPEAKER_01 (19:12):
I I would say that even among one specific side,
you're not gonna have like noteveryone is going to believe the
same things.
So even if it may be like aone-sided event, people can
still learn.
Among the right, we've got a lotof people with different
opinions.
We see that a lot.
But I'd say that's largely whatlike the Charlie Kirk Prove Me
(19:34):
Wrong events were for, which wasyes, Charlie is coming from one
specific point of view, but he'sallowing people of other
viewpoints to come up and talk,say whatever they want.
And what Charlie Kirk was tryingto do was encourage people to
think through that why behindwhat they believe.
And that's and I mean they theypost the whole things on uh
(19:56):
their YouTube, their Instagrams.
So from that, you're hearingdiffering perspectives.
SPEAKER_02 (20:02):
Yeah.
And then same thing with ourtabling events.
We don't go out and put up asign that makes a statement just
for people to come up and belike, heck yeah, like I agree
with you.
We put that up so that peoplecan come and disagree with us,
and that's why I say I likeconversation more than a debate.
When I when I go to thosetabling events, people are like,
oh, are you gonna debate me?
I'm like, no, I'm gonna have aconversation with you.
(20:23):
If I have a if I go to thesetabling events with the mindset
that I'm gonna debate someone,I'm closing my mind off and I'm
saying I'm gonna, you know,quote, win this conversation.
Whereas we go to these tablingevents with an open mindset,
ready to learn from each other.
As well as turning point focuseson edging educating ourselves on
what we think so that we canalso talk to people who are not
(20:44):
a part of our chapter.
So you can go out into life andand talk to those in your
classes, talk to those at yourchurches, I don't know, like a
coffee shop that you mightfrequent that you that you have
a friend at that disagrees withyou.
That that's a big thing that wepush for is conversation not
just within the chapter, butwith those that you know.
Heck have a conversation withyour family at Thanksgiving.
(21:07):
Maybe not at the dinner table,though.
SPEAKER_00 (21:09):
So let's get into the Christian Chronicles
coverage of Charlie Kirk'sdeath.
I believe that was the firsttime that the Christian
Chronicle ever reported onanything having to do with
Charlie Kirk or turning pointbecause there were so many
people in our Church of Christuh community here in the United
States that that followedCharlie Kirk, as the two of you
do.
(21:29):
And there was a lot of pushback,and I picked up on two things in
particular that that people thathad a negative perception of
Charlie Kirk or knew about himand disagreed with him, two
things that that really came outin the feedback that we got.
And I just want to bring thoseto you now, since y'all are
(21:49):
conversationalists.
Uh, and again, I just need tosay for everyone listening, I
didn't follow, listen to, orread Charlie Kirk.
So it is out of bounds for me toact like I know enough about
what he believed or taught tohave much to say about it.
I am actually more familiar withwhat his critics said about him
than what he said.
So, as an example, and this isthe first question, because it
(22:11):
came up a lot in the response wegot from our audience.
I heard a lot about criticsaccusing Charlie Kirk of
promoting Christian nationalism.
And I have to say that is aslippery term.
We had a guest on this show, Dr.
Brad East, who made a case thatwe shouldn't even use the term
Christian nationalism becausenobody can agree on what it
(22:31):
means, which makes it hard tohave a fruitful conversation
about it.
How would you explain Kirk'stake on the place and role of
Christianity in the UnitedStates, government, and society?
Just to clear that record foreverybody.
SPEAKER_01 (22:45):
Yeah, so to the best of my knowledge, Charlie Kirk
believed that in every nation,when you're when you're creating
laws and such, that you'rebasing it off of some sort of
moral standard.
And as a Christian, he believedthat the Bible is the best moral
standard out there.
Um he believed that any elementof Christianity that you apply
(23:07):
to your life will make your lifebetter.
So he believed that as a nation,we should base our laws based on
the moral standard found in theBible.
He did completely believe in theidea of like separation in
church or state, in the sensethat he believes that like the
governments should not instituteany form of religion.
And he didn't believe that byyou know setting this moral
(23:28):
standard or our basing our lawsoff of the Bible, he didn't
believe that this would be acase of instituting religion.
You can still believe what youwant, just our laws are based
off of this moral standard.
And he also just he recognizedhow the the founder's viewpoint
on our founding, like many ofour founders were not Christian,
(23:50):
though they did believe that,you know, the Bible was a good
moral guide to base our lifelaws on.
So he's also just recognizingour history with that.
But the big thing is he believesthat the Bible has the best
moral standard ever, and weshould base our country's laws
on that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:06):
I'd emphasize he is not trying to force his religion
onto anyone.
He is merely saying that thereis a moral baseline that that
should be followed.
And if we shall base our laws onanything, it should be that
moral baseline.
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
As long as I've been alive, and I'm 49, guys, so I
got a I got a 30-year head starton you.
Growing up in a in a Church ofChrist environment where a lot
of us are also patriots.
We love being Americans and welove the United States, it's
always been a point ofdiscussion about how the Bible,
(24:43):
how Christianity relates to thelaws of the land.
And I've never I have neverheard perfect agreement on that
point among the Christians thatassociate with me over a long
lifetime at this point.
It's always been an opendiscussion with a lot of points
and counterpoints.
(25:03):
And so this charge of Christiannationalism and a lot of what I
understand Charlie Kirk talkedabout really I think hits a
strong chord with a lot ofpeople in our audience because
it's a it's a question we'vestruggled with as long as I've
been alive and continue tostruggle with.
So I was I was in ourpreparation for this episode,
(25:25):
talking amongst the editorialteam at uh the Christian
Chronicle, one of the thingsthat came up among our reporters
and editorial staff was thecriticism that Charlie Kirk said
some things that seemed to becontemptuous of people of color.
This came up a lot in uh theaudience reactions to the to the
(25:48):
reporting the ChristianChronicle Dead and our own
discussions in the newsroom.
And again, I have to say I didnot listen to Charlie Kirk or
read anything he wrote, and Idon't know if some of the quotes
attributed to him are taken outof context or twisted in some
way.
So for example, here are someCharlie Kirk quotes that I
looked up from a report theGuardian put out on September
(26:09):
11, 2025, the day after he died.
Quote, if I see a black pilot,I'm gonna be like, boy, I hope
he's qualified, end quote.
Quote, happening all the time inurban America.
Prowling blacks go around forfun to go target white people.
That's a fact.
It's happening more and more,end quote.
Quote, if I'm dealing withsomebody in customer service who
(26:30):
is a moronic black woman, Iwonder, is she there because of
her excellence, or is she therebecause of affirmative action,
end quote.
And then there's this quotedirected toward Joy Reid,
Michelle Obama, Sheila JacksonLee, and Katanji Brown Jackson,
quote, you do not have the brainprocessing power to otherwise be
taken seriously.
You had to go steal a whiteperson's slot to go be taken
(26:51):
somewhat seriously, end quote.
These words are so stark, theymake it hard to hear them in a
positive light in any context.
Maybe you know something aboutthem that outsiders like me
don't know, but I would beremiss if I didn't bring them up
in this interview because thatwas a major point of contention
that we heard from people in ourreporting.
SPEAKER_01 (27:11):
Well, yeah, and and I'll say out of context, all of
these sound so unbelievablyracist, so unbelievably wrong,
but it it's simply just that.
It's it's out of context.
In all of these situations, thisis a topic, the the topic of
discussion, sorry, is on meritversus like affirmative action
or DEI.
(27:32):
I believe that all of theseexamples are fairly easy to
defend.
However, I would just sort oflike to point out some
statements that Charlie Kirk hasmade that would prove that he is
not racist.
Because one thing that I noticea lot is people like to pick and
choose certain phrases and say,well, look, he's racist.
He said this, he said that.
So I'm just gonna sort of listoff a few things that he did
(27:54):
believe and say that would proveotherwise that he's not racist.
So Charlie Kirk would often saythat he wanted to live in a
society that is quote unquotecolorblind.
In a debate with someone onetime, he was talking about how
the only biological differencebetween black people and white
people are their melanincontents.
He said that the Civil RightsAct had noble intentions.
(28:18):
He was friends with and uhemployed many people of color.
And then he also believed thatall life, no matter their race,
no matter their stage and humandevelopment, and so on and so
forth, should all be treatedequally based solely on the fact
that they are all they are allhuman beings, all created in the
image of God, and are thus, youknow, worthy of any human rights
(28:38):
that we have.
But if we want to, I mean, if wewant to focus on these topics,
uh the these controversialquotes, just to uh specifically
address the first one, CharlieKirk is simply saying that he
wants to live in a world whereuh we can 100% be confident that
someone has their job becausethey earned it and not because
of the color of their skin.
(28:59):
Again, he wanted to live in acolorblind society where we
didn't focus on color and raceto determine, you know,
someone's worthiness for aposition.
He wanted to look at merit.
I believe that it's actuallymore racist to lower standards
for certain uh races ordemographics.
Because that, I mean, in and ofitself is saying, hey, you guys
can't do this unless we do thisfor you.
(29:20):
So I would say it's more racistto have these laws or such in
place saying that, you know, wehave to, you know, hire a
certain amount of people thatare, you know, black or white.
We should we should baseemployment based off of merit
and character, not the color ofyour skin.
SPEAKER_02 (29:39):
Yeah, exactly.
The the way that these quotesare framed a lot of times when
people are bringing them up isCharlie Kirk speaking against
people of color, which is infact not what he's doing.
He is he's speaking against DEI.
For example, like they theseairlines were requiring a
specific amount of theirapplicants and to to be certain
colors and And that's I meanthat's that is via definition
(30:06):
discrimination based off ofcolor.
He wasn't saying, oh, this pilotis this color, therefore they're
not qualified.
He's saying based off of whatthese airlines have released,
that is a concern of his.
SPEAKER_00 (30:17):
One of the things about this point in the
conversation that that grabs myattention and causes some
concern with me.
And this is, again, coming frommy age compared to y'all, I, you
know, I grew up in the Church ofChrist, and my dad was a
preacher, and my papa was apreacher, and I've grown up
around preachers.
(30:38):
And one of the things that I'veobserved over my lifetime is you
might have an influentialperson, and I'm just going to
talk about the church here, whosays something that is what that
person says is taken out ofcontext and misunderstood by
(30:59):
those who hear it.
And that can do two things.
One, it can get that person in alot of trouble that maybe they
don't deserve because theircomment is taken out of context.
And I think that's what we'retalking about, what you're
talking about here with CharlieKirk.
But the other thing that I'veseen it do is give people
(31:20):
permission.
How do I want to say this?
You can take something aninfluential teacher says, take
it out of context, and then youcan do with that teaching
something other than what theteacher intended for you to do.
So uh in the in this case, whenwe're talking about Charlie Kirk
and the quotes that I read,there will be people who take
(31:40):
those quotes out of context andand maybe misunderstand what
Charlie Kirk is trying tocommunicate, and they would say
that he's racist.
And that is certainly theirright to have that opinion.
But then there are other peoplewho take comments like that and
may, out of context, take themas permission to be racist, to
(32:03):
be contemptuous of people ofcolor.
And that's what I think is sodangerous about making comments
that are as stark as CharlieKirk made.
And so I'm setting this up foryou more as a chance to jam on
that point, not necessarily todefend Charlie Kirk, but to talk
about some of the unintendedconsequences that could come
(32:27):
from things that Charlie Kirksaid and how he said them.
And again, I'm saying that assomeone who's not personally
familiar, but you are.
And so I wonder if you have everfelt like things could be taken
out of context, not just bythose who oppose Charlie Kirk,
but those who like Charlie Kirk,and uh could be taken the wrong
(32:48):
way, and harm could come fromthose things.
SPEAKER_02 (32:51):
Anyone who is of any significance, um, their their
quotes will be taken out ofcontext.
That's the nature of humanity.
And that's again why we why wepromote conversation rather than
just reading or watchingsomething, because within a
conversation you're you'reprovided with context, and it's
not just these little snippets.
(33:13):
And I while it is it is adanger, I think that we should
still go out and and be voiceswithin the church because that
that's a danger for for anyone,and I'd rather people in the
church church be speaking andpotentially taken out of context
than others take the church'sinfluence because we're too
scared to speak for ourselves.
SPEAKER_01 (33:35):
Yeah, and I'd just like to add to that.
Anyone who takes Charlie's wordsout of context and uses it as an
excuse to do racist and terriblethings, we we do not agree with
that.
We think it's totally wrong.
And just because they're on ourside doesn't mean we support it.
We I mean we we completelycondone those actions.
(33:57):
And and that's why I think wehave to be so very careful with
the way that we say things.
Because I mean, sure, maybeCharlie Kirk could have said
these things in a better waythat would not have been taken
out of context quite like theyhave been.
And unfortunately, that's just Imean, that's the nature of man.
We're imperfect, we makemistakes.
(34:17):
But ultimately, like if peopledo take his words out of
context, the fault is not fullyon Charlie if that's not how he
intended the message to come outas.
But I I I totally sympathizewith the idea that we need to be
very, very careful with how wesay things, especially when you
have that large of an influence.
SPEAKER_02 (34:39):
You know, with harsh words and stuff, we do see
people like Paul get get harshas well.
Like in Philippians 3, verse 2,I believe it is, he calls false
prophets or false teachers dogs.
Does that mean that God doesn'tlove them?
No, it does not.
God loves everyone on thisearth, yet he still uses that
harsh language.
And so I just, you know, eventhough things can be taken out
(35:02):
of context and taken too far, wewe can't be afraid to to speak
our mind.
SPEAKER_00 (35:07):
And you y'all are young and you're thinking hard
about this stuff, and that'sthat's really good.
One of the you brought up theexample of Paul calling false
teachers dogs.
One of the the things I've triedto do in my life as I've grown
up and as I've met more peopleand I've had more experiences is
to reserve that what I'll callnuclear option.
(35:29):
So one of the rules that we havefor our son who's who just
turned 13 is no name calling.
The only name you're allowed tocall someone is their name or a
or a pet name.
Like, you know, I, you know, mywife calls me Honey, right?
And I call my son Bud, you know,or Buddy.
And so our rule for him is youonly call names that are
(35:50):
someone's real name or a term ofendearment.
And so Paul calling those falseteachers dogs, I the standard I
hold for myself is if I'm gonnacall someone a dog, I mean, that
is gonna be that is gonna be anextreme, extreme case.
And I'm just gonna tell youright now, I don't think I've
(36:11):
called anybody a derogatory namein decades.
That's how serious I am aboutit.
So what I'm coming around to isI feel like there are too many
people in the church who say,well, Paul called the false
teachers dogs.
And I want to say to them, yeah,but you're not Paul.
You know, you need to use somediscretion there.
(36:33):
And so I'm glad you brought thatup because you're you're a
couple of young men, you're 19,and you're thinking really hard
about this, and you care a lotabout the words you say.
And I wonder if you could maybeteach the rest of us for a
moment.
All we have people of all ageslistening to this.
How do you determine when it isappropriate to be that harsh and
(36:58):
when you should be gentle?
SPEAKER_02 (37:01):
First of all, I want to absolutely agree with you.
I'm not promoting going out andand calling people dogs just
because they disagree with you.
I would agree that is thenuclear option, the last option.
But I would say when it helpsthem, because a lot of times
name-calling is for yourself.
You're like you're losing adiscussion, so you you pull out
(37:21):
a really nasty name, uh, makesyou feel better about yourself.
But sometimes you need to makepeople realize the how wrong
their ways are.
And so that line is different inevery context.
However, I would say the thatreally you you need to use
discretion and make sure thatwhat you are saying benefits
(37:43):
them and and the kingdom ofChrist, uh, not just oh, I'm
losing this this argument, letme call them a name.
SPEAKER_01 (37:50):
Yeah, I I completely agree.
Names should be a last resort.
Again, with with what we believeand with what our mission is on
our campus, is we want toencourage conversations.
And like ultimately, if it meansthat you know start to believe
in the things that I believe,that's great.
Ultimately, that's not our maingoal.
But in order to have theseconversations where we're
(38:11):
willing to learn from eachother, treat each other as
human, resorting to names andderogatory terms is never the
answer.
It should always be used as alast resort.
I mean, even if we look at likeJesus, like the only times he
would use derogatory terms was,for example, when he would speak
to the Pharisees or theSadducees, where he would call
them hypocrites.
(38:32):
It's it's not something that weshould throw around lightly.
And I think that we need tofollow the convictions of our
heart.
But even Charlie Kurt, again,he's human, he made some
mistakes, and he sometimes wouldresort to that.
But there would be so many timeswhere people would call him
names, make fun of how helooked, and he would he would
respond in uh love, humbleness,kindness.
(38:53):
Um, and I think that's alwaysthe answer, especially if we're
trying to bring unity.
We should try and be as winsomeas possible and be very careful
with how he communicates.
SPEAKER_00 (39:02):
I have to disclose a little bit about myself here.
I didn't plan on doing thisbecause I try to be more like a
robot on this show, meaning it'snot an autobiographical show.
It's about the guests that wehave.
But this is uh this is apersonal subject for me.
When I was in college, when Iwas 19 years old, I was a ditto
head.
And I don't know if y'all uheven know what I'm talking about
(39:22):
when I say I was a ditto head.
Do you know what that means?
SPEAKER_01 (39:26):
No, sir.
SPEAKER_00 (39:27):
All right, man, I'm feeling old, guys.
So actually, Charlie Kirk was aditto head.
I know this from uh reading hisWikipedia profile.
So I was an a fan of RushLimbaugh, and uh I listened to
Rush Limbaugh every day.
I read everything he wrote, andand so Rush Limbaugh fans are
called Dittoheads.
And when I was 19 years old, Iwas I was really, really into
(39:49):
Rush Limbaugh.
And when I I was at a Christiancollege, Church of Christ, two
different Church of Christschools for five years from 1994
to 1999.
And while I was the first two orthree years that I was in
college, I was very politicallyactive.
And since you know now that Iwas a ditto head, you know that
I was a part of a conservativeRepublican movement on campus.
(40:11):
So that's out there now.
But one of the things thateventually turned me off and
caused me to move away from it,it wasn't the it wasn't what we
believed and it wasn't how wethought, it was how mean the
people around me were.
(41:55):
In what direction should we beinfluencing politics?
And then the second part of thequestion is how do we keep the
worst parts of American politicsfrom infecting the church and
conforming the church to theimage of politics?
Those are two big questions.
So I hope you remember them.
I'll just sit back and let youuh let you jam on that.
SPEAKER_02 (42:16):
To answer that first part of that question, um, I
would say that the people withinthe church should begin
educating themselves and kind ofseeing what topics that have
become politicized are reallyfounded in in faith and religion
at base.
We look at abortion, which Ibelieve is a moral evil, which
would would make that areligious topic, not a political
topic.
Well, it is a political topic,but at base it is it is
(42:38):
religious.
And so I would encourage thechurch to to be more active in
it.
And to that kind of plays intothe second part is when you
become more active, be carefulwhere you place your identity.
Keep your identity in faith.
The the hatred that we see, it'sit's coming from placing our
identity in our politics, notour faith.
(43:00):
Something I I always live by isyour faith should always
influence your politics, butyour politics should never
influence your faith.
And so just keeping thoseboundaries and making sure that
you because when you subscribeto a specific political
movement, you uh base youractions based off of people
within that movement.
(43:21):
When you put your faith in JesusChrist and you place your
identity in the Christianmovement, you base your actions
off of Jesus Christ, who is theone that we should be following.
He's the way, the truth, and thelife.
And so yeah, I guess the onehuge punch there is be more
politically active, but makesure your identity is still
founded in Christ.
SPEAKER_01 (43:40):
I believe that our faith should play an important
role in literally every singleaspect of our life.
But as Jeremiah said, like ourfaith should always be
determining our politics and notthe other way around.
Our politics should never, everinfluence our faith.
It should always be the otherway around.
But like even like people suchas Esther the Minor, the Major
(44:02):
Prophets, Paul himself, John theBaptist, these were all people
who were involved in confrontingthe evils of the world, calling
out the hypocrisies and evils ofthe ruling authorities, and did
so outside of like a like a likea church atmosphere, I guess.
So I think I think that it'simportant for us to be involved
(44:22):
in these spheres, but it's soimportant for us to not place
our identity in politics, and weshould always remember that our
politics should never everinfluence our faith.
Should always be the other wayaround.
SPEAKER_00 (44:33):
That's well said.
I I have two two points to makein response to that.
The first is that I've been aI've been a nonprofit my whole
life.
So my job has always been toraise money and find volunteers
to to do to do good work in thecommunity.
And my wife has been in the samecareer as well.
(44:53):
And one of the things we agreedon a long time ago is that it's
a lot easier for people to writea check than it is to actually
go do something.
So, you know, at I don't know,Habitat for Humanity, for
example, where I used to work,it's a lot easier for someone to
write a check and send off acheck than it is for them to
come out and actually work on ahouse, right?
(45:15):
Give a Saturday afternoon towork on a house.
So I think about politics thesame way.
I feel like, and you can correctme if you think I'm wrong here.
I feel like in the UnitedStates, especially over the last
20, 30, 40 years, you know, thatI've been alive, so you brought
up abortion as an example, thesanctity of life and uh standing
(45:35):
up for the sanctity of life inall stages.
I feel like it's become fareasier for Christians to quote,
do politics, in quote, meaningjust to simply vote for a
certain party or candidate, thanit is for them to dive headfirst
into the kind of work that ittakes to guard and uphold and
(45:57):
support the sanctity of life.
And that to me is the danger ofpolitics is Christians feel like
politics can be their singleexpression of the biblical
values, the biblical values thatthey uphold.
So that's one point that I wantto make.
I feel, and and here's thesecond point, the other side of
that coin.
(46:17):
And I'm saying is this assomeone who is in who has been
in an elected office, who isvery active in local politics.
The thing about politics is itwants all of you.
It wants it wants yourallegiance 100%.
Not a little, it wantseverything you will give it.
And so the danger of politicsthere, if you're a Christian, is
that politics, I have found frommy experience, it doesn't want
(46:42):
some of you, it wants all ofyou.
And that sometimes puts you in aposition where, as a Christian,
you have to compromise yourChristianity in order to be
loyal to the party, for example,or loyal to the platform.
And if politics is your mainexpression of your Christianity,
(47:02):
it is very easy to compromise.
That has been my experience.
That's that's a 49-year-old guy.
I'm a former 19-year-old, you'rea couple of 19-year-olds who are
thinking really hard about this.
You know, I wonder if if youwant to jam on what I just said.
SPEAKER_01 (47:16):
I definitely sometimes struggle with those
same feelings of like, hey,we're we might be, you know,
overobsessing over these things.
And I'll say, like, we do needthose people who are just simply
writing the checks.
And there we need those peoplelike Charlie Kirk who are
involved in politics.
God has a calling for each andevery single one of us in life.
And I think it's just importantto remember that we need to keep
the Lord at the forefront of allthings.
(47:38):
Um, whether you're abusinessman, a pastor, a
missionary, in every singlething that we do as Christians,
we should be glorifying andreflecting God and keeping him
at the forefront of all thingsthat we do.
I mean, we and we see this withCharlie Kirk, is even though he
was in this political sphere, hepreached the gospel to millions
(47:59):
of people around the world.
He defended his faith onnumerous points.
He would often defend hispositions using the Bible.
So I think it it it definitelyis very easy, and I I I'm guilty
of this sometimes, where I puttoo much emphasis on the
politics and sort of, you know,make that more important than
(48:19):
the faith.
But I think everyone has acalling in life, and some people
are put into that role of, youknow, we need to be involved in
politics.
So but that's not everyone'scalling.
SPEAKER_02 (48:32):
Yeah, I I find that question specifically
interesting for my situationbecause as I got involved with
Turning Point and and started toflush out what I believed and
why I believed it, I realized Iknew a lot more about politics
than I did about my faith.
And I realized this through alot of my my, I guess you could
say political beliefs arefounded in that moral baseline I
(48:52):
was talking about earlier.
And so while I was workingthrough why I believed it, I'm
like, okay, I don't know why Ibelieve this, and I believe this
because of my faith.
And so while I understand thatit's it's a slippery slope, I
believe being active in in yourbeliefs is a good way to flesh
them out.
And I I'm glad that you calledthat to the forefront because it
(49:14):
it is easy to get caught up inthat.
But yeah, I I would say that solong as you place your identity
in Christ and I I know that youmentioned conforming to to the
party, that that is somethingthat needs to that you need to
be careful of because sometimesyou're not as successful
immediately when you don'tconform to the party, uh and
when you conform your life toChrist, but when you conform
(49:36):
your life to Christ, you mightnot be as successful now, but
you're way more successful inthe long run.
And so I guess I'd say that asan encouragement to Christians
within politics is is give yourlife to Christ and and not
politics.
SPEAKER_00 (49:48):
You said some both of you said the same thing a
minute ago about keepingpolitics out of church.
And you said that in response toa concern that I voiced.
I've seen it over my lifetime,politicians and pundits becoming
like preachers and prophets tothe church.
And so, you know, I've seenpeople in my own, in my own
(50:10):
congregations through the yearswho listen more to political
commentators than they do topreachers, or they read more,
they read more politics thanthey read the Bible.
And so I see those politiciansand pundits becoming more
influential on the church andinfluential over what
Christianity looks like topeople than the Bible and then
(50:34):
the Bible teachers that we have.
So you both said that shouldn'thappen, but I don't think we're
doing a good job at keeping itfrom happening.
So how might you recommend?
You've got fresh young minds,how might you recommend ensuring
that politics does not haveinfluence over who we are as the
(50:57):
church of Christ, especiallyhere in the United States?
SPEAKER_01 (51:01):
I think the important thing is we all need
to own our own faith and make ita priority in our lives.
In I'm our culture struggleswith it, Christians struggle
with it, I struggle with itsometimes.
I would just say try and beregular, go to church, read your
Bible every day, praycontinually.
These are all themes that we seethroughout the Bible is owning
your faith and being constant inthat.
(51:23):
For me personally, like prayeris a big part of my life.
Like when I'm just walking toclasses and I'm alone, like I
try and prioritize praying, evenif it's you know, just
glorifying God for, you know,the beauty of nature and you
know the sounds of nature.
Just doing that because it itkeeps my mind stayed on the Lord
and makes me prioritize myfaith.
(51:46):
And I think people sort of justlimit their faith to church on
Sunday morning.
And I think that's part of theproblem we see is if we're
limiting it to a short period oftime on Sunday morning, it's not
gonna be a big part of our livesand we're not gonna prioritize
it.
But if you're continual inprayer, reading the Bible, um,
listening to podcasts frompastors and stuff, I think that
(52:08):
we will see a change among thechurch body, I guess.
So that would be myencouragement.
Just be consistent.
Focus on the beautiful things inlife.
SPEAKER_02 (52:18):
Politics can be really down and and kind of get
you discouraged.
But I'm gonna read uhPhilippians 4 8.
Finally, brothers and sisters,whatever is true, whatever is
noble, whatever is right,whatever is pure, whatever is
lovely, whatever is admirable,if anything is excellent or
praiseworthy, think about suchthings.
And so I I guess I just say thatto to encourage us, because
(52:41):
well, it looks like we're inscary times, but we have Jesus
Christ as our Lord and Savior.
And that's our permission tolook at the beautiful things as
well.
Um, we need to make sure thatwe're not solely caught up in
these in these topics that thatare discouraging us, but also
look at the small wins and thebig wins that we have in life
and and focus on those.
SPEAKER_00 (53:03):
When I was about 21, 22, I felt like I could no
longer be active in partypolitics and and continue to
seriously pursue the life andteachings of Jesus Christ.
And I'm not saying that foreverybody, but for me, I felt
like in order to get reallyserious about my discipleship, I
(53:25):
had to step away from partypolitics.
There are some people that wouldstay active and try to influence
party politics in the name ofChrist.
I decided I wasn't going to beone of those people.
And so I haven't been a part ofparty politics now in almost 30
years.
Y'all are you're leading theturning point USA chapter there
at Oklahoma ChristianUniversity.
(53:46):
You're very active, you're 19,you're thinking about the next
few years of your life, you'rethinking about the rest of your
lives and what you want toaccomplish with your lives.
So what do you what do you hopeto contribute personally to the
(54:08):
political environment in, youknow, in the place where you
live and among the people thatyou live your lives?
And I want to I think it's veryimportant here to also ask, how
is that going to relate to yourlives as followers of Jesus
Christ and members of the bodyof Christ?
SPEAKER_02 (54:27):
Yeah, for me, what I'm hoping to contribute is
quite simple.
It's love.
Within politics, there's a lotof hate going around.
And Jesus teaches us to loveall.
And, you know, specifically withsome of these these turning
point events, uh, with the proveme wrongs and all that, it can
get it it can in fact get veryus versus them.
(54:49):
But I just want to show all thatthat I'm here to to hear them,
and I'm not here to disagreewith them, but I'm here to to
share the truth.
Um I mean, I know I've I'vealways felt like I I I've had a
servant's heart.
Um and for me, that's thischapter is how I'm doing that.
And so yeah, I just I just hopeto spread love through the
(55:11):
community and and show that youcan have opinions that differ
and still agree each other andlove each other as brothers and
sisters in Christ.
SPEAKER_01 (55:20):
Part of what I want to see accomplished through our
work here on Oklahoma Christianscampus, I mean, I I want a
community of people who thinkand I want them to think
biblically.
So that's something like eversince September 10th, that's
something that we've actuallyincorporated in writing into our
(55:40):
turning point constitution forour specific chapter, is
implementing intentionality onincorporating our faith into all
these things.
Because while we believe thatthese political issues are
important and do need to beaddressed, we want to make sure
that we're doing so strictlyfrom a biblical perspective.
And honestly, if we can't defendit, you know, using the Bible,
(56:03):
and if it doesn't reflect godlyways, then it probably, I mean,
honestly, we're probably not inthe right, you know, place.
So our our focus has uh changedmore or become more intentional
in sharing our faith ineverything that we do.
But these times have also justit's encouraged me um to be more
brave, to be more bold, um,because I believe that our our
(56:27):
faith should um be an activepart of all aspects of life, and
this is clearly something thatI'm interested in.
And if this is the calling thatthe Lord has on my life, uh I
want to be obedient to the Lord.
Um, even if the people around memight try to discourage me from
it just because it's it'sworldly.
Um, I think that uh if we areyou know bringing our faith into
(56:49):
it and if our faith isinfluencing it, um, and that's
our calling in life, then Ithink that we should uh obey
God.
SPEAKER_00 (56:57):
Thank you, both of you, uh, for sharing all that
today.
Jeremiah Del Corman, uh KeeganHaupt, our students at Oklahoma
Christian University in OklahomaCity, Oklahoma.
They lead the Turning Point USAchapter on that campus.
Jeremiah Keegan, thank you forsharing your own lives and your
thoughts with your Christianfamily around the world today.
SPEAKER_01 (57:17):
Absolutely.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you, sir.
This was a blessing.
SPEAKER_00 (57:21):
We hope that something you heard in this
episode encouraged, enlightened,or enriched you in some way.
If it did, thanks be to God.
And please pay it forward,subscribe to this podcast, and
share it with a friend.
Recommend and review it whereveryou listen to your favorite
podcasts.
Your subscription,recommendation, and review help
us reach more people.
Please send your comments,ideas, and suggestions to
(57:43):
podcasts atChristianCronicle.org.
And don't forget that ourministry to inform and inspire
Christians and congregationsaround the world is a nonprofit
ministry that relies on yourgenerosity.
So if you like the show and youwant to keep it going and make
it even better, please make atax-deductible gift to the
Christian Chronicle at ChristianChronicle.org/slash donate.
(58:04):
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis a production of the Christian
Chronicle Incorporated,informing and inspiring Church
of Christ congregations,members, and ministries around
the world since 1943.
The Christian Chronicle'smanaging editor is Calvin
Cochrane, Editor-in-Chief BobbyRoss Jr., and President and CEO
Eric Trigestad.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted,
(58:27):
and edited by B.T.
Irwin, and is produced by JamesFlanagan at Podcast Your Voice
Studios in The Motor City,Detroit, Michigan, USA.
Until next time, may grace andpeace be yours in abundance.
Family and friends, neighbors, and most of all,
strangers, welcome to theChristian Chronicle Podcast.
We're bringing you the storiesshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
I'm B.T.
Irwin.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
On September 10, 2025, CharlieKirk, a 31-year-old political
(00:23):
activist and media personality,was holding a public event for
about 3,000 people, most of themstudents, at Utah Valley
University in Oram, Utah, whenhe was shot and killed while
taking questions from theaudience.
Over the next few days, Iobserved a range of reactions
from folks in my Church ofChrist circles.
Some Church of Christ folkscalled Kirk, quote, a Christian
(00:45):
martyr.
They interpreted his death as acasualty of spiritual warfare
between the forces of good andevil.
Other Church of Christ folks hadnever even heard of Kirk until
his death.
The day after his murder, my momasked me, Do you know who
Charlie Kirk is?
I've never even heard of him.
And other Church of Christfolks, while condemning the sin
of murder and mourning the youngchildren and widow Kirk left
(01:06):
behind, pushed back oncharacterizations of Kirk as a
prophet and saint.
In particular, they cited whathe said about immigrants, people
of color, and women, and how hesaid it.
They also cautioned againstKirk's statements that seemed to
endorse giving Christianitycontrol over the U.S.
government and Christians'preferential treatment in U.S.
society.
(01:26):
One fact that is beyond disputeis that Kirk had an enormous and
growing influence on college ageAmericans on campuses across the
United States.
By 2025, Kirk's Turning PointUSA had chapters on more than
2,000 college and high schoolcampuses.
His podcast received between500,000 and 750,000 downloads
(01:47):
per day.
From what I observe, what madeKirk so attractive to so many
young Christians in particularwere his strong statements in
favor of Christianity andChristian values.
A lot of the traditionalbiblical values that Kirk
endorsed are in alignment withwhat a lot of Church of Christ
folks tend to believe.
The Christian Chroniclepublished both an editorial and
a report in response to Kirk'sdeath.
(02:09):
Let me tell you, they receivedmixed and passionate reactions
that you would expect.
Rather than go over all thatagain, I thought it would be
interesting to hear from some ofthe young Christians for whom
Charlie Kirk was an inspiration,role model, and teacher.
What about what Charlie Kirkbelieved and taught appeals to
these young Christians?
(02:29):
What might we learn not aboutpolitics in the United States,
but about a segment of the youngpeople growing up and coming of
age in our Church of Christcommunity here in the U.S.?
Out of the 14 colleges anduniversities in the United
States that have roots and tiesin the Church of Christ, two
have active Turning Point USAchapters, according to the
Turning Point USA website.
(02:51):
I reached out to both chapters,and the leaders of one of them
agreed to be on the show.
Today we welcome JeremiahDelcour and Keegan Haupt, who
lead the Turning Point USAchapter at Oklahoma Christian
University in Oklahoma City,Oklahoma.
Jeremiah is a sophomore criminaljustice major from Rough and
Reddy, California.
Great city name.
He plans to pursue a career inlaw enforcement.
(03:12):
Jeremiah is the vice presidentof the Turning Point USA chapter
at Oklahoma Christian.
Keegan Haupt is a sophomorebusiness management and
marketing major from Dallas,Texas.
He's the social media directorfor the Turning Point USA
chapter at Oklahoma Christian.
Jeremiah Keegan, thank you foragreeing to talk to all of us
today.
Absolutely.
Thank you for having us.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (03:32):
Thank you, sir.
SPEAKER_00 (03:33):
Let's start with this.
The day after Charlie Kirk'sdeath, my mom asked me, Do you
know Charlie Kirk?
And I said, Yeah, I know of him.
She said, I've never heard ofhim.
Who is he?
And in the days that followed, Icame across a lot of Church of
Christ folks who were just likemy mom.
They didn't know Charlie Kirk.
They didn't know anything abouthim.
(03:54):
And at the same time, I also ranacross a lot of Church of Christ
folks who revered Charlie Kirkand lamented his death as a
great loss.
So, in your own words, for thosein our Church of Christ
audience, and it is a diverseaudience from around the world,
there are those that didn't knowmuch about Charlie Kirk before
his death.
There are those who knew a lotabout him as you do.
Who was Charlie Kirk and why ishe important?
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
Yeah, so I mean, Charlie Kirk was above all, he
was a Christian, he was afather, he was a husband, but he
was also the founder andpresident of Turning Point USA.
Most people sort of saw CharlieKirk as simply being like the
college debate guy who spakespoke about politics.
However, he would often alsospeak on the importance of his
(04:40):
faith as a fundamental part ofhis life.
And he talked a lot about howfaith played a role in the
foundation of this great nationof the United States.
Charlie Kirk not only inspiredcountless people to have a
strong sense of civic duty, buthe also inspired many people to
be bold in their faith.
And I see the evidence of thisbecause of what happened shortly
(05:02):
after he died.
Like we saw record numbers ofchurch attendees following his
life.
You wouldn't see this one if hewas simply just a political
figure, and two, if God wasn'tat work through this devastating
situation.
SPEAKER_02 (05:14):
I've always seen Charlie Kirk as a man who stands
up for what he believes, and andyou follow that through to the
end.
And I I think that's why he'simportant, especially to me, is
as Christians, we're we'recalled to never give up what we
believe just because we'repersecuted.
The last thing that he he sharedwas the gospel uh before he was
he was taken from us.
(05:35):
And once when he was asked whathe wanted to be remembered for
if he if he died, he said hiscourage and his faith.
And for me, that's who CharlieKirk was, and that's why he's
important.
SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
Tell us your stories about how you first encountered
Charlie Kirk and Turning PointUSA.
What was the appeal that madeyou want to be a part of it all?
SPEAKER_01 (05:55):
So it was about it was about halfway through my
high school time.
I was in one of my worldviewclasses, we were starting to
study American politics andhistory.
And this sort of just startedthis interest in delving into
studying uh politics andconservative values.
I started listening to peoplelike Shapiro and uh a few other
political commentators.
(06:16):
And and while I had, while Iagreed a lot with what they
said, there was there wassomething that was missing.
And it was shortly after that Istarted listening to this man by
the name of Charlie Kirk.
And the thing that stood out tome that was different from
people like Ben Shapiro was thefact that he was a Christian.
He was coming from a biblicalperspective.
He would often he exemplified uhChristian character, uh, in the
(06:40):
sense that like he was humble,he was calm, he was kind.
He wasn't perfect by any means.
I mean, we're all human beings,we're we're imperfect.
But he came at it from abiblical standpoint, which was
something that stood up to me asa Christian, um, because I
believed that our faith shoulddetermine our political views.
So that was something that wasimportant to me.
(07:01):
And it was a few years later,2023, I was able to attend the
Turning Point USA America Fest,which is their biggest event
that they run every year.
I actually met Charlie Kirk inperson at that event and was
able to experience Turning PointUSA as a whole there.
And it ever since then, likethat sort of solidified my uh
love for this organization.
(07:21):
And then just, you know, gettingstarted with helping out with
like the social media and thecampus advertisement here on
campus.
Um at this chapter, it's it'sbeen a gift, and I'm so thankful
for it.
SPEAKER_02 (07:31):
So I kind of seen Charlie Kirk's videos and stuff,
but I didn't really know aboutTurning Point until this January
when our chapter actuallystarted.
I had our president now.
She approached me after one ofour political science classes
and said, Hey, we're starting aturning point USA chapter on
this campus.
I've you know, I've seen you inclass, you have pretty strong
(07:52):
opinions about this stuff.
Uh, would you like to be ourtreasurer?
That's that's the position Istarted in.
And I told her, I'm like, youknow, I I've never really heard
of Turning Point.
I don't want to jump intosupporting something without
knowing what it is, so let melook into that.
And she's like, Well, have youheard of this guy named Charlie
Kirk?
Like, yeah, you could say I'veheard of him.
And so uh, you know, she told meabout how how Kirk founded
(08:12):
Turning Point in 2012.
And from from there, I was kindof just diving in.
Yeah, with with this semester, II became our vice president.
And yeah, my my journey withTurning Point's been kind of
kind of short, but reallyimpactful in my life.
It's really helped me flush outwhat I believe and why I believe
(08:33):
it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:33):
I wonder if you could back up even further in
your lives to talk about who youunderstand yourselves to be as
people.
What about each one of you madeyou the kind of people that that
would want, that would be happyto find someone like Charlie
Kirk in Turning Point USA?
Keegan, you talked a little bitabout some of the classes you
(08:55):
took in high school, but justtake take our audience back a
little more into who you are aspeople, how you've developed as
human beings, as Christians, andthe kind of life that you're
trying to build for yourselves,what you're trying to accomplish
with your lives.
That's that's a pretty bigquestion.
Does it make sense to you?
SPEAKER_01 (09:11):
Yeah, I think I kind of get the gist of it.
So I mean, I was raised in aChristian household.
I have two wonderful parents.
I'm actually one of fivechildren.
So we, I mean, we were raised,we were homeschooled, we went to
church every week, we would havelike uh devotions, prayer time.
One of the things that my familywould do every single morning is
we would have worship, prayer,and a devotion together.
(09:33):
So I've I've been raised from ayoung age to, you know, know the
Word of God, we would memorizescripture and just learning
together.
Um, but also just beinghomeschooled, like I was able to
build deep connections with myfamily.
But then also through classeslike my worldview class in high
school, I was able to meetwonderful people, other
homeschool students like myself.
(09:54):
I I would say, like, uh I wouldattribute a lot of my uh uh
interest to this to my teacherfrom that worldview class.
Uh he he was very instrumentalin my life.
And he he taught me importantskills such as uh how to
critical critically think,thinking through what we believe
and why we believe it.
I believe that's so veryimportant for us because a lot
(10:15):
of people that we have this sortof mindset where uh whatever our
new source tells us, like that'swhat it is.
And I reject that idea.
I think that we should, youknow, I think listening to these
new sources is good, but I thinkthat we should, you know, listen
to these things and then thinkthrough and rationalize what we
heard and like then determine,like, hey, you know, is this
(10:38):
something that's valid?
Like, let's let's do someresearch.
We need to think through what webelieve and why we believe it.
And learning these skills from ayoung age, I think, has been
really helpful for me, at least.
SPEAKER_02 (10:48):
Yeah, for for me, I see myself as a servant mainly.
That that kind of led me to Kirkbecause that's what he did.
He he goes out on these collegecampuses and while he disagrees
with these people, he's outthere not to prove them wrong,
(11:10):
but to help them.
And that's kind of what a lot ofwhat what I learned growing up
on a farm.
If if our neighbors were weregoing through something, we go
over and help them, even if it'seven if it's like if we have to
go out of our way, I guess.
(11:31):
And yeah, so so growing up, I Iwas always taught to help
people.
I was always taught to to putothers above yourself.
And that's what Kirk did.
He was hated by a lot of people.
At first putting his name outthere with with his opinions, it
(11:53):
uh made people not like him asmuch, but he followed through,
and that's kind of how I wasraised.
SPEAKER_00 (11:57):
Thank you for sharing sharing your your
stories.
I just uh so much of thatresonates with me and where I
was when I was your age and andwhat I was looking for.
And it's personal, so thank youfor sharing that with our
audience.
I want to ask you one questionabout turning point USA.
You've had a big part inbringing a chapter to Oklahoma
(12:18):
Christian University because uhthat's actually interesting
because uh outsiders like metend to think that Charlie
Kirk's project was to putturning point chapters on what
we might call liberal or secularpublic university campuses.
So putting a turning point USAchapter at Oklahoma Christian
may seem a little like preachingto the choir.
(12:39):
So what are your goals forplanting turning point at your
at your school?
What do you hope to accomplishon your campus there?
SPEAKER_02 (12:46):
I I'm hoping to achieve conversation.
Conversation is how we learn asa society.
So while this is a moreChristian and more conservative
campus than others, there arestill people who might disagree
with us.
But even for people who do agreewith us, isn't it's still
important to have conversationbecause again, uh I've talked to
a lot of people who I agree withon topics, but they don't
(13:09):
understand why they agree withme.
And I I've I've asked them, I'mlike, okay, so you've said that
you agree with me on thisstance, but why?
How did you get there?
And so that's that's what we'retrying to do.
Because when you go out into theworld with these beliefs that
you don't know why you believe,you can't defend them.
And it can it can reallychallenge your faith.
Because, you know, with turningpoint, it's a political
organization, but on thiscampus, we really focus in on
(13:31):
the faith side of turning point.
And so I I really believe it'simportant to talk about why we
believe what we believe so thatwhen we get out into the world,
we can defend our faith andwitness to others.
SPEAKER_01 (13:42):
While it may seem like this turning point wasn't,
you know, set up to like debateliberals or to prove that we're
somehow smarter than people.
The goal is to haveconversations and make people
think critically.
It's it's never really beenabout trying to, I don't know,
like convert you to one side oranother.
It's and while that might bepart of it, the main thing is we
(14:07):
want you to know what youbelieve and why you believe it,
whether you agree with us ornot.
But like on our can'c campusspecifically, we have a a I'd
say a majority conservativecampus, but again, sort of like
what Jeremiah was saying, wewant people to know, you know,
the why behind what theybelieve.
But also, I mean, there'sthere's a lot of people here
who've bought into this worldlylie of what it means to love.
(14:28):
And so that's been a big focusfor us is we're we're looking
back at the Bible.
First First Corinthians 13,which a lot of people refer to
as the love chapter, literallysays that love does not rejoice
in wrongdoing, nor does it seekin its own way, but rather it
rejoices in truth.
So we our primary focus iscombating issues such as uh
homosexuality, transgenderism,abortion, immigration, and
(14:52):
trying to answer these from astrict strictly from a biblical
perspective.
So that's been a big focus forus is just coming from it from
uh let's look at it from a faithstandpoint, and then let's also
just look at the the why behindwhat we believe.
SPEAKER_00 (15:08):
I bet a lot of people listening to this don't
actually know what a turningpoint chapter does on a college
campus, and it may depend onwhich college campus.
So you've just you've justexplained a little bit about
what you hope to accomplishthere at Oklahoma Christian.
For those audience members whoare not familiar, what what does
a turning point USA chapter doat Oklahoma Christian, for
(15:33):
example?
SPEAKER_02 (15:33):
Yeah, so our chapter, we host tabling events
where we'll be out withdifferent signs and all that,
and basically we'll we'll make aclaim.
And so I guess for example, ournext one is going to be we're
gonna be tabling on abortion andand the evils of abortion.
So we'll go out there and we'llhave that sign and we'll discuss
with people their beliefs, andwe'll have some form of like
(15:54):
interactions.
So like we did a Maha event, uh,which is Make America Healthy
again, and we had like a push-upcontest.
So like that's tabling events.
We'll we'll we'll also uh hostspeakers.
So like last night we hosted uhMr.
Amani of Blexit.
He came and spoke.
He's a life coach, motivationalspeaker.
And so we also plan on havingspeakers come and speak on those
(16:17):
topics as well to help keep usinformed because if we just talk
amongst ourselves, we're notbringing in new information.
So turning point allows us tobring in speakers who are more
informed than us to help uscontinue learning.
And then also we they have likesummits and whatnot.
So, like America Fest overWinter Break, over this past
summer.
Keegan and I were both luckyenough to go to both the chapter
(16:40):
leadership summit and thestudent action summit, where
they had many speakers such aslike Pete Heggseth and Christy
Gnome.
And so, again, really just theseevents where we can broaden our
horizon by listening todifferent opinions.
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
Yeah, and then on top of that, we'll we host uh
monthly member meetings in whichwe sort of inform our members on
what we've been doing, what weplan on doing, and then we give
them an opportunity to um puttheir input in on like what they
want to see on our campus.
So we give our members a voicein that.
We also we're starting up thismonth, we're doing like
community service.
So we're gonna go volunteer atfood pantries, we're gonna do uh
(17:16):
like trash pickup days, stufflike that, just to be involved
in the community to try and makethe world a better place.
And then we also we just we dosome for fun events.
So like earlier this year, wehad our event, the Grill and
Chill.
We just we provided food foreveryone.
We cooked out, it's just a funtime of community growing
together as friends andcolleagues, brothers and sisters
in Christ.
(17:36):
So I mean that that's themajority of what we do here on
this campus.
But then we also have uh activesocial media, so that's a way
that we're able to communicatewith uh members here and then
also just other people aroundthe community, the states, and
other countries.
SPEAKER_00 (17:49):
Because I am not familiar with Turning Points or
with Charlie Kirk, I I knowabout them, but I'm not
familiar.
So I don't have any personalinteraction or personal
knowledge.
Most of what I know is what I'veheard or read about through
other sources.
I am certain that what you justsaid a moment ago got some
(18:13):
people driving in their cars orcooking in their kitchens or
working out at the gym, gottheir hackles up just a little
bit, and they would push back onyou a little bit and say, on the
one hand, Keegan and Jeremiah,you have said very clearly that
we want to know why we believewhat we believe.
We want to challenge ourselvesand challenge other people to
(18:33):
think and to explore and to takein information and think about
it critically.
But those people listening mightalso then come back and say, but
when you go to these turningpoint events, it seems like you
only hear from people thatalready agree with turning
points, points, major points.
So you mentioned Christy Noamand Pete Pete Hegseth, for
(18:56):
example, uh Jeremiah.
So to those people that wouldsay, are you are you sure you're
actually hearing a diversity ofopinions, or are you only
hearing from people that agreewith one side, educate us a
little more on how that works.
SPEAKER_01 (19:12):
I I would say that even among one specific side,
you're not gonna have like noteveryone is going to believe the
same things.
So even if it may be like aone-sided event, people can
still learn.
Among the right, we've got a lotof people with different
opinions.
We see that a lot.
But I'd say that's largely whatlike the Charlie Kirk Prove Me
(19:34):
Wrong events were for, which wasyes, Charlie is coming from one
specific point of view, but he'sallowing people of other
viewpoints to come up and talk,say whatever they want.
And what Charlie Kirk was tryingto do was encourage people to
think through that why behindwhat they believe.
And that's and I mean they theypost the whole things on uh
(19:56):
their YouTube, their Instagrams.
So from that, you're hearingdiffering perspectives.
SPEAKER_02 (20:02):
Yeah.
And then same thing with ourtabling events.
We don't go out and put up asign that makes a statement just
for people to come up and belike, heck yeah, like I agree
with you.
We put that up so that peoplecan come and disagree with us,
and that's why I say I likeconversation more than a debate.
When I when I go to thosetabling events, people are like,
oh, are you gonna debate me?
I'm like, no, I'm gonna have aconversation with you.
(20:23):
If I have a if I go to thesetabling events with the mindset
that I'm gonna debate someone,I'm closing my mind off and I'm
saying I'm gonna, you know,quote, win this conversation.
Whereas we go to these tablingevents with an open mindset,
ready to learn from each other.
As well as turning point focuseson edging educating ourselves on
what we think so that we canalso talk to people who are not
(20:44):
a part of our chapter.
So you can go out into life andand talk to those in your
classes, talk to those at yourchurches, I don't know, like a
coffee shop that you mightfrequent that you that you have
a friend at that disagrees withyou.
That that's a big thing that wepush for is conversation not
just within the chapter, butwith those that you know.
Heck have a conversation withyour family at Thanksgiving.
(21:07):
Maybe not at the dinner table,though.
SPEAKER_00 (21:09):
So let's get into the Christian Chronicles
coverage of Charlie Kirk'sdeath.
I believe that was the firsttime that the Christian
Chronicle ever reported onanything having to do with
Charlie Kirk or turning pointbecause there were so many
people in our Church of Christuh community here in the United
States that that followedCharlie Kirk, as the two of you
do.
(21:29):
And there was a lot of pushback,and I picked up on two things in
particular that that people thathad a negative perception of
Charlie Kirk or knew about himand disagreed with him, two
things that that really came outin the feedback that we got.
And I just want to bring thoseto you now, since y'all are
(21:49):
conversationalists.
Uh, and again, I just need tosay for everyone listening, I
didn't follow, listen to, orread Charlie Kirk.
So it is out of bounds for me toact like I know enough about
what he believed or taught tohave much to say about it.
I am actually more familiar withwhat his critics said about him
than what he said.
So, as an example, and this isthe first question, because it
(22:11):
came up a lot in the response wegot from our audience.
I heard a lot about criticsaccusing Charlie Kirk of
promoting Christian nationalism.
And I have to say that is aslippery term.
We had a guest on this show, Dr.
Brad East, who made a case thatwe shouldn't even use the term
Christian nationalism becausenobody can agree on what it
(22:31):
means, which makes it hard tohave a fruitful conversation
about it.
How would you explain Kirk'stake on the place and role of
Christianity in the UnitedStates, government, and society?
Just to clear that record foreverybody.
SPEAKER_01 (22:45):
Yeah, so to the best of my knowledge, Charlie Kirk
believed that in every nation,when you're when you're creating
laws and such, that you'rebasing it off of some sort of
moral standard.
And as a Christian, he believedthat the Bible is the best moral
standard out there.
Um he believed that any elementof Christianity that you apply
(23:07):
to your life will make your lifebetter.
So he believed that as a nation,we should base our laws based on
the moral standard found in theBible.
He did completely believe in theidea of like separation in
church or state, in the sensethat he believes that like the
governments should not instituteany form of religion.
And he didn't believe that byyou know setting this moral
(23:28):
standard or our basing our lawsoff of the Bible, he didn't
believe that this would be acase of instituting religion.
You can still believe what youwant, just our laws are based
off of this moral standard.
And he also just he recognizedhow the the founder's viewpoint
on our founding, like many ofour founders were not Christian,
(23:50):
though they did believe that,you know, the Bible was a good
moral guide to base our lifelaws on.
So he's also just recognizingour history with that.
But the big thing is he believesthat the Bible has the best
moral standard ever, and weshould base our country's laws
on that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:06):
I'd emphasize he is not trying to force his religion
onto anyone.
He is merely saying that thereis a moral baseline that that
should be followed.
And if we shall base our laws onanything, it should be that
moral baseline.
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
As long as I've been alive, and I'm 49, guys, so I
got a I got a 30-year head starton you.
Growing up in a in a Church ofChrist environment where a lot
of us are also patriots.
We love being Americans and welove the United States, it's
always been a point ofdiscussion about how the Bible,
(24:43):
how Christianity relates to thelaws of the land.
And I've never I have neverheard perfect agreement on that
point among the Christians thatassociate with me over a long
lifetime at this point.
It's always been an opendiscussion with a lot of points
and counterpoints.
(25:03):
And so this charge of Christiannationalism and a lot of what I
understand Charlie Kirk talkedabout really I think hits a
strong chord with a lot ofpeople in our audience because
it's a it's a question we'vestruggled with as long as I've
been alive and continue tostruggle with.
So I was I was in ourpreparation for this episode,
(25:25):
talking amongst the editorialteam at uh the Christian
Chronicle, one of the thingsthat came up among our reporters
and editorial staff was thecriticism that Charlie Kirk said
some things that seemed to becontemptuous of people of color.
This came up a lot in uh theaudience reactions to the to the
(25:48):
reporting the ChristianChronicle Dead and our own
discussions in the newsroom.
And again, I have to say I didnot listen to Charlie Kirk or
read anything he wrote, and Idon't know if some of the quotes
attributed to him are taken outof context or twisted in some
way.
So for example, here are someCharlie Kirk quotes that I
looked up from a report theGuardian put out on September
(26:09):
11, 2025, the day after he died.
Quote, if I see a black pilot,I'm gonna be like, boy, I hope
he's qualified, end quote.
Quote, happening all the time inurban America.
Prowling blacks go around forfun to go target white people.
That's a fact.
It's happening more and more,end quote.
Quote, if I'm dealing withsomebody in customer service who
(26:30):
is a moronic black woman, Iwonder, is she there because of
her excellence, or is she therebecause of affirmative action,
end quote.
And then there's this quotedirected toward Joy Reid,
Michelle Obama, Sheila JacksonLee, and Katanji Brown Jackson,
quote, you do not have the brainprocessing power to otherwise be
taken seriously.
You had to go steal a whiteperson's slot to go be taken
(26:51):
somewhat seriously, end quote.
These words are so stark, theymake it hard to hear them in a
positive light in any context.
Maybe you know something aboutthem that outsiders like me
don't know, but I would beremiss if I didn't bring them up
in this interview because thatwas a major point of contention
that we heard from people in ourreporting.
SPEAKER_01 (27:11):
Well, yeah, and and I'll say out of context, all of
these sound so unbelievablyracist, so unbelievably wrong,
but it it's simply just that.
It's it's out of context.
In all of these situations, thisis a topic, the the topic of
discussion, sorry, is on meritversus like affirmative action
or DEI.
(27:32):
I believe that all of theseexamples are fairly easy to
defend.
However, I would just sort oflike to point out some
statements that Charlie Kirk hasmade that would prove that he is
not racist.
Because one thing that I noticea lot is people like to pick and
choose certain phrases and say,well, look, he's racist.
He said this, he said that.
So I'm just gonna sort of listoff a few things that he did
(27:54):
believe and say that would proveotherwise that he's not racist.
So Charlie Kirk would often saythat he wanted to live in a
society that is quote unquotecolorblind.
In a debate with someone onetime, he was talking about how
the only biological differencebetween black people and white
people are their melanincontents.
He said that the Civil RightsAct had noble intentions.
(28:18):
He was friends with and uhemployed many people of color.
And then he also believed thatall life, no matter their race,
no matter their stage and humandevelopment, and so on and so
forth, should all be treatedequally based solely on the fact
that they are all they are allhuman beings, all created in the
image of God, and are thus, youknow, worthy of any human rights
(28:38):
that we have.
But if we want to, I mean, if wewant to focus on these topics,
uh the these controversialquotes, just to uh specifically
address the first one, CharlieKirk is simply saying that he
wants to live in a world whereuh we can 100% be confident that
someone has their job becausethey earned it and not because
of the color of their skin.
(28:59):
Again, he wanted to live in acolorblind society where we
didn't focus on color and raceto determine, you know,
someone's worthiness for aposition.
He wanted to look at merit.
I believe that it's actuallymore racist to lower standards
for certain uh races ordemographics.
Because that, I mean, in and ofitself is saying, hey, you guys
can't do this unless we do thisfor you.
(29:20):
So I would say it's more racistto have these laws or such in
place saying that, you know, wehave to, you know, hire a
certain amount of people thatare, you know, black or white.
We should we should baseemployment based off of merit
and character, not the color ofyour skin.
SPEAKER_02 (29:39):
Yeah, exactly.
The the way that these quotesare framed a lot of times when
people are bringing them up isCharlie Kirk speaking against
people of color, which is infact not what he's doing.
He is he's speaking against DEI.
For example, like they theseairlines were requiring a
specific amount of theirapplicants and to to be certain
colors and And that's I meanthat's that is via definition
(30:06):
discrimination based off ofcolor.
He wasn't saying, oh, this pilotis this color, therefore they're
not qualified.
He's saying based off of whatthese airlines have released,
that is a concern of his.
SPEAKER_00 (30:17):
One of the things about this point in the
conversation that that grabs myattention and causes some
concern with me.
And this is, again, coming frommy age compared to y'all, I, you
know, I grew up in the Church ofChrist, and my dad was a
preacher, and my papa was apreacher, and I've grown up
around preachers.
(30:38):
And one of the things that I'veobserved over my lifetime is you
might have an influentialperson, and I'm just going to
talk about the church here, whosays something that is what that
person says is taken out ofcontext and misunderstood by
(30:59):
those who hear it.
And that can do two things.
One, it can get that person in alot of trouble that maybe they
don't deserve because theircomment is taken out of context.
And I think that's what we'retalking about, what you're
talking about here with CharlieKirk.
But the other thing that I'veseen it do is give people
(31:20):
permission.
How do I want to say this?
You can take something aninfluential teacher says, take
it out of context, and then youcan do with that teaching
something other than what theteacher intended for you to do.
So uh in the in this case, whenwe're talking about Charlie Kirk
and the quotes that I read,there will be people who take
(31:40):
those quotes out of context andand maybe misunderstand what
Charlie Kirk is trying tocommunicate, and they would say
that he's racist.
And that is certainly theirright to have that opinion.
But then there are other peoplewho take comments like that and
may, out of context, take themas permission to be racist, to
(32:03):
be contemptuous of people ofcolor.
And that's what I think is sodangerous about making comments
that are as stark as CharlieKirk made.
And so I'm setting this up foryou more as a chance to jam on
that point, not necessarily todefend Charlie Kirk, but to talk
about some of the unintendedconsequences that could come
(32:27):
from things that Charlie Kirksaid and how he said them.
And again, I'm saying that assomeone who's not personally
familiar, but you are.
And so I wonder if you have everfelt like things could be taken
out of context, not just bythose who oppose Charlie Kirk,
but those who like Charlie Kirk,and uh could be taken the wrong
(32:48):
way, and harm could come fromthose things.
SPEAKER_02 (32:51):
Anyone who is of any significance, um, their their
quotes will be taken out ofcontext.
That's the nature of humanity.
And that's again why we why wepromote conversation rather than
just reading or watchingsomething, because within a
conversation you're you'reprovided with context, and it's
not just these little snippets.
(33:13):
And I while it is it is adanger, I think that we should
still go out and and be voiceswithin the church because that
that's a danger for for anyone,and I'd rather people in the
church church be speaking andpotentially taken out of context
than others take the church'sinfluence because we're too
scared to speak for ourselves.
SPEAKER_01 (33:35):
Yeah, and I'd just like to add to that.
Anyone who takes Charlie's wordsout of context and uses it as an
excuse to do racist and terriblethings, we we do not agree with
that.
We think it's totally wrong.
And just because they're on ourside doesn't mean we support it.
We I mean we we completelycondone those actions.
(33:57):
And and that's why I think wehave to be so very careful with
the way that we say things.
Because I mean, sure, maybeCharlie Kirk could have said
these things in a better waythat would not have been taken
out of context quite like theyhave been.
And unfortunately, that's just Imean, that's the nature of man.
We're imperfect, we makemistakes.
(34:17):
But ultimately, like if peopledo take his words out of
context, the fault is not fullyon Charlie if that's not how he
intended the message to come outas.
But I I I totally sympathizewith the idea that we need to be
very, very careful with how wesay things, especially when you
have that large of an influence.
SPEAKER_02 (34:39):
You know, with harsh words and stuff, we do see
people like Paul get get harshas well.
Like in Philippians 3, verse 2,I believe it is, he calls false
prophets or false teachers dogs.
Does that mean that God doesn'tlove them?
No, it does not.
God loves everyone on thisearth, yet he still uses that
harsh language.
And so I just, you know, eventhough things can be taken out
(35:02):
of context and taken too far, wewe can't be afraid to to speak
our mind.
SPEAKER_00 (35:07):
And you y'all are young and you're thinking hard
about this stuff, and that'sthat's really good.
One of the you brought up theexample of Paul calling false
teachers dogs.
One of the the things I've triedto do in my life as I've grown
up and as I've met more peopleand I've had more experiences is
to reserve that what I'll callnuclear option.
(35:29):
So one of the rules that we havefor our son who's who just
turned 13 is no name calling.
The only name you're allowed tocall someone is their name or a
or a pet name.
Like, you know, I, you know, mywife calls me Honey, right?
And I call my son Bud, you know,or Buddy.
And so our rule for him is youonly call names that are
(35:50):
someone's real name or a term ofendearment.
And so Paul calling those falseteachers dogs, I the standard I
hold for myself is if I'm gonnacall someone a dog, I mean, that
is gonna be that is gonna be anextreme, extreme case.
And I'm just gonna tell youright now, I don't think I've
(36:11):
called anybody a derogatory namein decades.
That's how serious I am aboutit.
So what I'm coming around to isI feel like there are too many
people in the church who say,well, Paul called the false
teachers dogs.
And I want to say to them, yeah,but you're not Paul.
You know, you need to use somediscretion there.
(36:33):
And so I'm glad you brought thatup because you're you're a
couple of young men, you're 19,and you're thinking really hard
about this, and you care a lotabout the words you say.
And I wonder if you could maybeteach the rest of us for a
moment.
All we have people of all ageslistening to this.
How do you determine when it isappropriate to be that harsh and
(36:58):
when you should be gentle?
SPEAKER_02 (37:01):
First of all, I want to absolutely agree with you.
I'm not promoting going out andand calling people dogs just
because they disagree with you.
I would agree that is thenuclear option, the last option.
But I would say when it helpsthem, because a lot of times
name-calling is for yourself.
You're like you're losing adiscussion, so you you pull out
(37:21):
a really nasty name, uh, makesyou feel better about yourself.
But sometimes you need to makepeople realize the how wrong
their ways are.
And so that line is different inevery context.
However, I would say the thatreally you you need to use
discretion and make sure thatwhat you are saying benefits
(37:43):
them and and the kingdom ofChrist, uh, not just oh, I'm
losing this this argument, letme call them a name.
SPEAKER_01 (37:50):
Yeah, I I completely agree.
Names should be a last resort.
Again, with with what we believeand with what our mission is on
our campus, is we want toencourage conversations.
And like ultimately, if it meansthat you know start to believe
in the things that I believe,that's great.
Ultimately, that's not our maingoal.
But in order to have theseconversations where we're
(38:11):
willing to learn from eachother, treat each other as
human, resorting to names andderogatory terms is never the
answer.
It should always be used as alast resort.
I mean, even if we look at likeJesus, like the only times he
would use derogatory terms was,for example, when he would speak
to the Pharisees or theSadducees, where he would call
them hypocrites.
(38:32):
It's it's not something that weshould throw around lightly.
And I think that we need tofollow the convictions of our
heart.
But even Charlie Kurt, again,he's human, he made some
mistakes, and he sometimes wouldresort to that.
But there would be so many timeswhere people would call him
names, make fun of how helooked, and he would he would
respond in uh love, humbleness,kindness.
(38:53):
Um, and I think that's alwaysthe answer, especially if we're
trying to bring unity.
We should try and be as winsomeas possible and be very careful
with how he communicates.
SPEAKER_00 (39:02):
I have to disclose a little bit about myself here.
I didn't plan on doing thisbecause I try to be more like a
robot on this show, meaning it'snot an autobiographical show.
It's about the guests that wehave.
But this is uh this is apersonal subject for me.
When I was in college, when Iwas 19 years old, I was a ditto
head.
And I don't know if y'all uheven know what I'm talking about
(39:22):
when I say I was a ditto head.
Do you know what that means?
SPEAKER_01 (39:26):
No, sir.
SPEAKER_00 (39:27):
All right, man, I'm feeling old, guys.
So actually, Charlie Kirk was aditto head.
I know this from uh reading hisWikipedia profile.
So I was an a fan of RushLimbaugh, and uh I listened to
Rush Limbaugh every day.
I read everything he wrote, andand so Rush Limbaugh fans are
called Dittoheads.
And when I was 19 years old, Iwas I was really, really into
(39:49):
Rush Limbaugh.
And when I I was at a Christiancollege, Church of Christ, two
different Church of Christschools for five years from 1994
to 1999.
And while I was the first two orthree years that I was in
college, I was very politicallyactive.
And since you know now that Iwas a ditto head, you know that
I was a part of a conservativeRepublican movement on campus.
(40:11):
So that's out there now.
But one of the things thateventually turned me off and
caused me to move away from it,it wasn't the it wasn't what we
believed and it wasn't how wethought, it was how mean the
people around me were.
(41:55):
In what direction should we beinfluencing politics?
And then the second part of thequestion is how do we keep the
worst parts of American politicsfrom infecting the church and
conforming the church to theimage of politics?
Those are two big questions.
So I hope you remember them.
I'll just sit back and let youuh let you jam on that.
SPEAKER_02 (42:16):
To answer that first part of that question, um, I
would say that the people withinthe church should begin
educating themselves and kind ofseeing what topics that have
become politicized are reallyfounded in in faith and religion
at base.
We look at abortion, which Ibelieve is a moral evil, which
would would make that areligious topic, not a political
topic.
Well, it is a political topic,but at base it is it is
(42:38):
religious.
And so I would encourage thechurch to to be more active in
it.
And to that kind of plays intothe second part is when you
become more active, be carefulwhere you place your identity.
Keep your identity in faith.
The the hatred that we see, it'sit's coming from placing our
identity in our politics, notour faith.
(43:00):
Something I I always live by isyour faith should always
influence your politics, butyour politics should never
influence your faith.
And so just keeping thoseboundaries and making sure that
you because when you subscribeto a specific political
movement, you uh base youractions based off of people
within that movement.
(43:21):
When you put your faith in JesusChrist and you place your
identity in the Christianmovement, you base your actions
off of Jesus Christ, who is theone that we should be following.
He's the way, the truth, and thelife.
And so yeah, I guess the onehuge punch there is be more
politically active, but makesure your identity is still
founded in Christ.
SPEAKER_01 (43:40):
I believe that our faith should play an important
role in literally every singleaspect of our life.
But as Jeremiah said, like ourfaith should always be
determining our politics and notthe other way around.
Our politics should never, everinfluence our faith.
It should always be the otherway around.
But like even like people suchas Esther the Minor, the Major
(44:02):
Prophets, Paul himself, John theBaptist, these were all people
who were involved in confrontingthe evils of the world, calling
out the hypocrisies and evils ofthe ruling authorities, and did
so outside of like a like a likea church atmosphere, I guess.
So I think I think that it'simportant for us to be involved
(44:22):
in these spheres, but it's soimportant for us to not place
our identity in politics, and weshould always remember that our
politics should never everinfluence our faith.
Should always be the other wayaround.
SPEAKER_00 (44:33):
That's well said.
I I have two two points to makein response to that.
The first is that I've been aI've been a nonprofit my whole
life.
So my job has always been toraise money and find volunteers
to to do to do good work in thecommunity.
And my wife has been in the samecareer as well.
(44:53):
And one of the things we agreedon a long time ago is that it's
a lot easier for people to writea check than it is to actually
go do something.
So, you know, at I don't know,Habitat for Humanity, for
example, where I used to work,it's a lot easier for someone to
write a check and send off acheck than it is for them to
come out and actually work on ahouse, right?
(45:15):
Give a Saturday afternoon towork on a house.
So I think about politics thesame way.
I feel like, and you can correctme if you think I'm wrong here.
I feel like in the UnitedStates, especially over the last
20, 30, 40 years, you know, thatI've been alive, so you brought
up abortion as an example, thesanctity of life and uh standing
(45:35):
up for the sanctity of life inall stages.
I feel like it's become fareasier for Christians to quote,
do politics, in quote, meaningjust to simply vote for a
certain party or candidate, thanit is for them to dive headfirst
into the kind of work that ittakes to guard and uphold and
(45:57):
support the sanctity of life.
And that to me is the danger ofpolitics is Christians feel like
politics can be their singleexpression of the biblical
values, the biblical values thatthey uphold.
So that's one point that I wantto make.
I feel, and and here's thesecond point, the other side of
that coin.
(46:17):
And I'm saying is this assomeone who is in who has been
in an elected office, who isvery active in local politics.
The thing about politics is itwants all of you.
It wants it wants yourallegiance 100%.
Not a little, it wantseverything you will give it.
And so the danger of politicsthere, if you're a Christian, is
that politics, I have found frommy experience, it doesn't want
(46:42):
some of you, it wants all ofyou.
And that sometimes puts you in aposition where, as a Christian,
you have to compromise yourChristianity in order to be
loyal to the party, for example,or loyal to the platform.
And if politics is your mainexpression of your Christianity,
(47:02):
it is very easy to compromise.
That has been my experience.
That's that's a 49-year-old guy.
I'm a former 19-year-old, you'rea couple of 19-year-olds who are
thinking really hard about this.
You know, I wonder if if youwant to jam on what I just said.
SPEAKER_01 (47:16):
I definitely sometimes struggle with those
same feelings of like, hey,we're we might be, you know,
overobsessing over these things.
And I'll say, like, we do needthose people who are just simply
writing the checks.
And there we need those peoplelike Charlie Kirk who are
involved in politics.
God has a calling for each andevery single one of us in life.
And I think it's just importantto remember that we need to keep
the Lord at the forefront of allthings.
(47:38):
Um, whether you're abusinessman, a pastor, a
missionary, in every singlething that we do as Christians,
we should be glorifying andreflecting God and keeping him
at the forefront of all thingsthat we do.
I mean, we and we see this withCharlie Kirk, is even though he
was in this political sphere, hepreached the gospel to millions
(47:59):
of people around the world.
He defended his faith onnumerous points.
He would often defend hispositions using the Bible.
So I think it it it definitelyis very easy, and I I I'm guilty
of this sometimes, where I puttoo much emphasis on the
politics and sort of, you know,make that more important than
(48:19):
the faith.
But I think everyone has acalling in life, and some people
are put into that role of, youknow, we need to be involved in
politics.
So but that's not everyone'scalling.
SPEAKER_02 (48:32):
Yeah, I I find that question specifically
interesting for my situationbecause as I got involved with
Turning Point and and started toflush out what I believed and
why I believed it, I realized Iknew a lot more about politics
than I did about my faith.
And I realized this through alot of my my, I guess you could
say political beliefs arefounded in that moral baseline I
(48:52):
was talking about earlier.
And so while I was workingthrough why I believed it, I'm
like, okay, I don't know why Ibelieve this, and I believe this
because of my faith.
And so while I understand thatit's it's a slippery slope, I
believe being active in in yourbeliefs is a good way to flesh
them out.
And I I'm glad that you calledthat to the forefront because it
(49:14):
it is easy to get caught up inthat.
But yeah, I I would say that solong as you place your identity
in Christ and I I know that youmentioned conforming to to the
party, that that is somethingthat needs to that you need to
be careful of because sometimesyou're not as successful
immediately when you don'tconform to the party, uh and
when you conform your life toChrist, but when you conform
(49:36):
your life to Christ, you mightnot be as successful now, but
you're way more successful inthe long run.
And so I guess I'd say that asan encouragement to Christians
within politics is is give yourlife to Christ and and not
politics.
SPEAKER_00 (49:48):
You said some both of you said the same thing a
minute ago about keepingpolitics out of church.
And you said that in response toa concern that I voiced.
I've seen it over my lifetime,politicians and pundits becoming
like preachers and prophets tothe church.
And so, you know, I've seenpeople in my own, in my own
(50:10):
congregations through the yearswho listen more to political
commentators than they do topreachers, or they read more,
they read more politics thanthey read the Bible.
And so I see those politiciansand pundits becoming more
influential on the church andinfluential over what
Christianity looks like topeople than the Bible and then
(50:34):
the Bible teachers that we have.
So you both said that shouldn'thappen, but I don't think we're
doing a good job at keeping itfrom happening.
So how might you recommend?
You've got fresh young minds,how might you recommend ensuring
that politics does not haveinfluence over who we are as the
(50:57):
church of Christ, especiallyhere in the United States?
SPEAKER_01 (51:01):
I think the important thing is we all need
to own our own faith and make ita priority in our lives.
In I'm our culture struggleswith it, Christians struggle
with it, I struggle with itsometimes.
I would just say try and beregular, go to church, read your
Bible every day, praycontinually.
These are all themes that we seethroughout the Bible is owning
your faith and being constant inthat.
(51:23):
For me personally, like prayeris a big part of my life.
Like when I'm just walking toclasses and I'm alone, like I
try and prioritize praying, evenif it's you know, just
glorifying God for, you know,the beauty of nature and you
know the sounds of nature.
Just doing that because it itkeeps my mind stayed on the Lord
and makes me prioritize myfaith.
(51:46):
And I think people sort of justlimit their faith to church on
Sunday morning.
And I think that's part of theproblem we see is if we're
limiting it to a short period oftime on Sunday morning, it's not
gonna be a big part of our livesand we're not gonna prioritize
it.
But if you're continual inprayer, reading the Bible, um,
listening to podcasts frompastors and stuff, I think that
(52:08):
we will see a change among thechurch body, I guess.
So that would be myencouragement.
Just be consistent.
Focus on the beautiful things inlife.
SPEAKER_02 (52:18):
Politics can be really down and and kind of get
you discouraged.
But I'm gonna read uhPhilippians 4 8.
Finally, brothers and sisters,whatever is true, whatever is
noble, whatever is right,whatever is pure, whatever is
lovely, whatever is admirable,if anything is excellent or
praiseworthy, think about suchthings.
And so I I guess I just say thatto to encourage us, because
(52:41):
well, it looks like we're inscary times, but we have Jesus
Christ as our Lord and Savior.
And that's our permission tolook at the beautiful things as
well.
Um, we need to make sure thatwe're not solely caught up in
these in these topics that thatare discouraging us, but also
look at the small wins and thebig wins that we have in life
and and focus on those.
SPEAKER_00 (53:03):
When I was about 21, 22, I felt like I could no
longer be active in partypolitics and and continue to
seriously pursue the life andteachings of Jesus Christ.
And I'm not saying that foreverybody, but for me, I felt
like in order to get reallyserious about my discipleship, I
(53:25):
had to step away from partypolitics.
There are some people that wouldstay active and try to influence
party politics in the name ofChrist.
I decided I wasn't going to beone of those people.
And so I haven't been a part ofparty politics now in almost 30
years.
Y'all are you're leading theturning point USA chapter there
at Oklahoma ChristianUniversity.
(53:46):
You're very active, you're 19,you're thinking about the next
few years of your life, you'rethinking about the rest of your
lives and what you want toaccomplish with your lives.
So what do you what do you hopeto contribute personally to the
(54:08):
political environment in, youknow, in the place where you
live and among the people thatyou live your lives?
And I want to I think it's veryimportant here to also ask, how
is that going to relate to yourlives as followers of Jesus
Christ and members of the bodyof Christ?
SPEAKER_02 (54:27):
Yeah, for me, what I'm hoping to contribute is
quite simple.
It's love.
Within politics, there's a lotof hate going around.
And Jesus teaches us to loveall.
And, you know, specifically withsome of these these turning
point events, uh, with the proveme wrongs and all that, it can
get it it can in fact get veryus versus them.
(54:49):
But I just want to show all thatthat I'm here to to hear them,
and I'm not here to disagreewith them, but I'm here to to
share the truth.
Um I mean, I know I've I'vealways felt like I I I've had a
servant's heart.
Um and for me, that's thischapter is how I'm doing that.
And so yeah, I just I just hopeto spread love through the
(55:11):
community and and show that youcan have opinions that differ
and still agree each other andlove each other as brothers and
sisters in Christ.
SPEAKER_01 (55:20):
Part of what I want to see accomplished through our
work here on Oklahoma Christianscampus, I mean, I I want a
community of people who thinkand I want them to think
biblically.
So that's something like eversince September 10th, that's
something that we've actuallyincorporated in writing into our
(55:40):
turning point constitution forour specific chapter, is
implementing intentionality onincorporating our faith into all
these things.
Because while we believe thatthese political issues are
important and do need to beaddressed, we want to make sure
that we're doing so strictlyfrom a biblical perspective.
And honestly, if we can't defendit, you know, using the Bible,
(56:03):
and if it doesn't reflect godlyways, then it probably, I mean,
honestly, we're probably not inthe right, you know, place.
So our our focus has uh changedmore or become more intentional
in sharing our faith ineverything that we do.
But these times have also justit's encouraged me um to be more
brave, to be more bold, um,because I believe that our our
(56:27):
faith should um be an activepart of all aspects of life, and
this is clearly something thatI'm interested in.
And if this is the calling thatthe Lord has on my life, uh I
want to be obedient to the Lord.
Um, even if the people around memight try to discourage me from
it just because it's it'sworldly.
Um, I think that uh if we areyou know bringing our faith into
(56:49):
it and if our faith isinfluencing it, um, and that's
our calling in life, then Ithink that we should uh obey
God.
SPEAKER_00 (56:57):
Thank you, both of you, uh, for sharing all that
today.
Jeremiah Del Corman, uh KeeganHaupt, our students at Oklahoma
Christian University in OklahomaCity, Oklahoma.
They lead the Turning Point USAchapter on that campus.
Jeremiah Keegan, thank you forsharing your own lives and your
thoughts with your Christianfamily around the world today.
SPEAKER_01 (57:17):
Absolutely.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you, sir.
This was a blessing.
SPEAKER_00 (57:21):
We hope that something you heard in this
episode encouraged, enlightened,or enriched you in some way.
If it did, thanks be to God.
And please pay it forward,subscribe to this podcast, and
share it with a friend.
Recommend and review it whereveryou listen to your favorite
podcasts.
Your subscription,recommendation, and review help
us reach more people.
Please send your comments,ideas, and suggestions to
(57:43):
podcasts atChristianCronicle.org.
And don't forget that ourministry to inform and inspire
Christians and congregationsaround the world is a nonprofit
ministry that relies on yourgenerosity.
So if you like the show and youwant to keep it going and make
it even better, please make atax-deductible gift to the
Christian Chronicle at ChristianChronicle.org/slash donate.
(58:04):
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis a production of the Christian
Chronicle Incorporated,informing and inspiring Church
of Christ congregations,members, and ministries around
the world since 1943.
The Christian Chronicle'smanaging editor is Calvin
Cochrane, Editor-in-Chief BobbyRoss Jr., and President and CEO
Eric Trigestad.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted,
(58:27):
and edited by B.T.
Irwin, and is produced by JamesFlanagan at Podcast Your Voice
Studios in The Motor City,Detroit, Michigan, USA.
Until next time, may grace andpeace be yours in abundance.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.