November 6, 2025 • 38 mins
When Dallas Jenkins, creator, principal writer and show runner for The Chosen spoke at Oklahoma Christian University, The Christian Chronicle's Bobby Ross, Jr., got a chance to sit down with him for a conversation. Carla Hinton, faith editor for The Oklahomanand The Christian Chronicle's CEO Erik Tryggestad joined them.
In this interview, you'll hear Jenkins talk about:
- The experience of filming the sixth season of The Chosen, which is all about the crucifixion of Jesus.
- How he handles the expectations of politicians that he (and his show) will be a platform and voice for their particular views.
- Why he chose to make The Chosen a TV show instead of a movie.
- The impact that The Chosen is making on Christians and non-Christians alike all over the world.
- How he chose Jonathan Roumie to play Jesus of Nazareth.
- The extreme personal and professional challenges of creating and sustaining The Chosen.
- How the broader entertainment industry has responded to, and been changed by, The Chosen phenomenon.
- The challenge and opportunity of interpreting Scripture through an artistic medium like television.
Link to Bobby Ross Jr.'s Christian Chronicle story about his interview with Dallas Jenkins.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
BT Irwin (00:04):
Family and friends, neighbors, and most of all
strangers, welcome to theChristian Chronicle Podcast.
We're bringing you the storiesshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
I'm B.T.
Irwin.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
I visit a lot of Church ofChrist congregations, and one
thing that I discovered over thelast couple of years, many of
(00:25):
them make the hit streaming showThe Chosen part of their adult
and or youth classes.
The remarkable thing about itis that I find this to be the
case for what we might callconservative or traditional
Church of Christ congregationsand the ones that are more
quote-unquote progressive.
I've been to a Church of Christcongregation that still uses
(00:46):
the King James Version forpreaching and scripture
readings, and the old red hymnalfor congregational singing, yet
when they gather for Wednesdaynight Bible study, they watch
and discuss the chosen.
So the show has achievedsomething remarkable beyond its
widespread popularity and use inChurch of Christ congregations.
It's an innovation, if youwill, that seems to unify Church
(01:07):
of Christ congregations allalong the conservative to
progressive spectrum.
Now, in case you aren't one ofthose Church of Christ folks who
knows much about the show, TheChosen is what Wikipedia calls a
quote Christian historicaldrama television series, in
quote, that is now in its fifthseason.
The Chosen follows the life andministry of Jesus of Nazareth
through the eyes of the peoplewho interacted with him.
(01:29):
What started as a crowdfundedshow, available only on the Vid
Angel platform for subscribersonly was released for free
during the COVID pandemic in2020 and quickly found its way
to the mainstream.
It eventually moved to Netflixand is now available on Amazon
Prime Video.
As of 2025, over 280 millionpeople worldwide have streamed
(01:49):
the show, including all of thoseChurch of Christ folks watching
it in fellowship halls andyouth rooms every week.
Dallas Jenkins, the creator,principal writer, and showrunner
for The Chosen, recently spokeat Oklahoma Christian University
in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
The Christian Chronicle's ownBobby Ross Jr.
walked over to the school andmanaged to get some time alone
to interview Jenkins.
(02:10):
We took Bobby's recording ofthat conversation and turned it
into this episode, you're aboutto hear.
You'll also hear our own CEO,Eric Trigostad, and Carla
Hinton, who is the faith editorat the Oklahoman, the big daily
newspaper there in OklahomaCity.
So enjoy Bobby Ross Jr.'sinterview with Dallas Jenkins.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (02:29):
So I guess you just wrapped up season six.
Can you talk about, I guess,kind of the process of season
six?
And you went to three differentcities, I think.
Dallas Jenkins (02:39):
Three, yeah.
Well, two in two differentcountries.
So season six was by far thehardest season we've ever
filmed.
One of the hardest things I'veever done.
It included filming in Utah,Texas, and Italy.
We were in Italy for a month.
And we did I think season sixwas meant to be hard.
It was the longest season offilming.
(03:00):
Yeah, the hottest, the mostphysically challenging.
I think when you're capturingthe crucifixion, which is what
season six is, it capturesessentially around 24 hours
Jesus Jesus' final hours.
And I think that God wanted usto get a little taste of some
suffering and sacrifice for thepurpose of capturing this.
(03:23):
I think a lot of the strain andchallenge and uh even at times
desperation that we had while wewere filming comes out on
screen.
It it it I think it was it wasvery visceral.
And uh I think it's gonna it'sgonna turn out to be our best
season as well, but it wasdefinitely our hardest.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (03:41):
So will it debut in March of next year?
Dallas Jenkins (03:44):
No, it'll be it'll be a while.
It'll actually be late fall ofnext year.
It'd be Kelda.
The the time there the theseparation between the previous
season is longer because a itwas longer filming.
We have we our hope is totranslate this into several
dozen languages and to releaseit all at once in those multiple
(04:08):
languages, and that takes along time.
So a lot of times we've justreleased it in English and
Spanish, maybe, and then theother languages catch up.
But this time I really want todo it at the same time.
Uh the first six episodes willcome out to streaming, and then
the finale is a is a big kind ofsupersized theatrical
experience.
So that'll be released all overthe world at the same time in
(04:31):
early 2027.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (04:33):
So I I guess I worked for the Associated Press
when The Passion of the Christcame out.
I remember I covered like thatfirst day when that came out.
People were coming out of thetheaters with like red eyes, and
it was just a really emotionalexperience.
You may remember that for fromseeing it yourself.
I'm wondering, do you expectwhat I guess how do you expect
(04:56):
your version of the crucifixionmaybe to be the same and
different from what we saw withMel Gibson's portrayal?
Dallas Jenkins (05:04):
So there's two ways that I think we're going to
be different from The Passionof Christ.
Number one, we have more toolsin our tool belt than he did by
the fact that we have fiveseasons leading up to this.
So he was using a lot ofviolence and visual uh uh
(05:26):
intensity to try to capture thereality of the crucifixion and
the weight of the crucifixion.
But it was a movie, so we onlyhad a limited amount of time.
So uh we don't need to do thatto communicate just how visceral
and intense a crucifixion was,because for many people, just a
simple reaction from one ofJesus' closest friends is gonna
(05:51):
break us because we've knownthese characters for so long, so
it has even more emotionalweight because of the
backstories that we've had forover five years.
Uh the second thing is it'sjust not gonna be quite as uh
explicitly violent.
Mel did it did it already.
I feel like I don't haveanything new to add to the
(06:13):
physicality of it.
We've seen dozens ofportrayals.
Mel's was the most violent.
I think we've got an idea ofwhat that looks like.
I don't think I need to go intothat and to make it almost.
I mean, sometimes it's almostlike a documentary if you want
to capture it accurately.
And I feel like for this, thestorytelling that we're doing,
(06:33):
we're trying to tell a story notjust of the crucifixion, but of
the history of humanity.
This movie is going to coverand and remind you of the
history of from the creation ofthe universe all the way to the
crucifixion to help establishthe need for the crucifixion.
So we're we're coming at itfrom a little bit more of uh I
(06:56):
think an emotional journey and aspiritual journey than a than a
physical one, if that makessense.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (07:01):
Yeah, but I would assume that people coming
out of your theater, it's goingto be an impactful experience.
I sure hope so as well.
Dallas Jenkins (07:09):
I sure hope so.
I mean, I it's it's definitelyas we were filming it, we
couldn't get through the dayswithout taking turns having some
sort of emotional breakdown.
I had my first experience onset where I couldn't get myself
together emotionally.
But I can't I can't predictexactly how everyone's gonna
(07:31):
react, but it's for for us andfor what I believe we're
capturing and the story thatwe're telling in the truths of
the crucifixion, I think it'sgonna be easily the most uh
emotional impact our show hasever had.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (07:45):
And y'all did film in the same general area as
The Passion was filmed?
Dallas Jenkins (07:49):
Yeah, so The Passion was filmed in Matera,
Italy, which is a city that isstill preserved its thousands of
years old status.
I mean, it's the only place wecould find where the horizon
line still looked like the firstcentury.
And so m several crucifixionprojects have filmed there, all
the way back to from to thePassion of St.
(08:11):
Matthew in in a Pasolini's filmin 19 the 1960s.
So there's a reason whymultiple projects have filmed
there.
And so we were, I think our ourcrosses were set up about 50
yards from where Mills were.
And he's actually filming theresurrection ruby there as well,
right?
So very, very gel overlapanyway, you were no, no, no.
Uh but yeah, we gave give eachother space.
(08:33):
But but there's it's a very,very special place, and uh it
was clear to us that it was theonly place we could that that
that was right for this project.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (08:42):
I read that you knew Charlie Kirk and that you
were, I guess you were filmingseason six when you found out
about what happened to him.
Could you talk, I guess, aboutI guess how you did know him and
maybe how you approachpolitics.
And I know maybe you all havesome similarities, but maybe
also some differences and howyou approach those kind of
(09:03):
conversations.
Dallas Jenkins (09:04):
Well, I I I will say I wasn't close.
I I I knew I knew him a littlebit.
We had a lot of mutual friends,and we were in our last week of
filming when we found out Ithink the differences between
what we're doing, what Charlie'sdoing, of course, is Charlie
was, I think, kind of usedpolitics as an on-ramp into
discussions of Christianity.
(09:26):
We are kind of the other wayaround.
I mean, we're we're talkingabout the stories of Jesus.
I'm focused on the stories ofJesus.
We don't get into the politicalrealm as a show, even though
many people want us to from bothsides.
The story of Jesus isoftentimes used for political
(09:47):
purposes.
Uh, one side likes to quoteJesus to support some of their
political ends or their um uhpolicies that they're wanting,
and then others, the other sidewill use other quotes to support
their policies.
What we're trying to do is justtell the stories in Jesus and
how people react to that is upto them.
It's between them and God, themand their families, them and
(10:08):
their church.
Uh, we're just trying toauthentically portray the
stories of Jesus as much aspossible.
I used to be a little bit morepolitically active on social
media.
Since I've started doing TheChosen, I've dramatically slowed
that down because I feel likeby telling the story of Jesus, I
kind of want to follow kind ofhis example of, hey, look, I'm
(10:29):
here about your heart.
I'm here about Jesus was hereabout the heart.
And he was always speaking tovery diverse groups of people.
And how sometimes he wasdivisive in his claims of uh
salvation, and other times hewas unifying, but it was always
the unification or the divisionwas always on the spiritual
(10:51):
level, not the political level.
Now, of course, he you knowwould upset people sometimes
because of politics.
But I just found that what myjob is is different from other
people in the public sphere.
Because I'm just trying to tellthe stories of Jesus as
authentically as I can, and thenthe response is not up to me.
He was a little bit more likelooking for a response, looking
(11:14):
for a to for engagement on thepolitical sphere, and that's
less my interest now.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (11:18):
You've been to Oklahoma before?
Dallas Jenkins (11:20):
I have been to Oklahoma.
I have not been to OklahomaChristian before.
This is my first time visitingthis campus, but I've been I was
at the Dead Center FilmFestival like 15 years ago.
I mean, I live in Texas now,and you know, of course, Texans
believe Jesus lived there, whichis why we that film the show
there.
Oklahoma's a little different,but the fact that the the high
(11:41):
heat and humidity even inOctober is familiar as a uh
living in Texas now.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (11:47):
But I love Oklahoma.
Lord, do you live in Midlothianor Midlothian?
Yeah.
Dallas Jenkins (11:52):
So that's where we film.
So I moved uh moved toMidlothian a few years ago.
So we have how old are you?
I'm 50.
I turned 50 this year.
50.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (12:00):
Oh, congrats.
That's young.
I'm 57.
So you have four groundchildren?
Dallas Jenkins (12:04):
Four four children, yes.
Two uh two getting married, oneone already married this year,
the other one getting marriedlater this year.
So they're all uh they're allgrown up.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (12:13):
Do you do a lot of appearances like that you're
doing here at OklahomaChristian?
Dallas Jenkins (12:17):
I used to do more.
Now that the filming has reallybecome comprehensive, I don't
do quite as many.
But uh I have so you know, comeand see is the nonprofit that
finances our show.
And Mark Green started Come andSee, so the Green family's
here.
So I actually get out toOklahoma City every now and then
(12:38):
for them.
So that so it made sense for meto come here.
I accepted this request to comespeak because then I also spoke
yesterday at North Church andwas able to spend time with
people from Come and See.
So it was it makes sense.
Oklahoma City is becoming alittle bit of a a second office.
Oh, okay.
So Okay.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (12:57):
What excites you about coming to a university
like Oklahoma Christian?
Dallas Jenkins (13:01):
Well, I love college students.
I I think in many ways thechosen was is made for for the
college age me.
When I was in college, as abeliever, I just didn't have
there wasn't much other than myveggie taste.
There, there wasn't much in theway of media that spoke to my
(13:22):
experience and my faith.
And I was always frustrated bythat.
And it's taken a long time forfaith media to catch up, but I
feel like now what I'm excitedabout is being able to speak to
college students and also makethe chosen, hopefully for them,
saying, Yeah, even at your age,someone who loved this
generation, of course, lovestell you know media, social
(13:43):
media, television, and movies.
And even at 50, I feel like Ican I can serve some media
that's going to speak to theirexperience as much as possible.
So I love I love coming tocollege campuses because I think
that this is the generationthat we sometimes complain about
because Gen Z is so differentthan than we are, but this is an
(14:04):
opportunity to perhaps learnfrom each other.
And you mentioned Come and See,is that the name of the Come
and See is the name of thenonprofit that finances the
church.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (14:13):
And y'all were trying to raise 30 million for
the crucifixion?
Dallas Jenkins (14:17):
For the crucifixion movie.
And you've got like 25 million?
Yeah, I think we're run, Ithink we've gotten to the to I
think by the time the week isover, I think we're gonna have
reached our goal.
But they finance everything.
So this year was more becausethe crucifixion is so big.
Crucifixion movie is so big,and going to Italy and all these
things were so much biggerproduction-wise than we normally
(14:39):
do.
Come and see agreed, we need togo all in, we need to make this
as big as possible.
So this is our most expensiveseason as well.
Carla Hinton (14:45):
Well, so one of the things that I was interested
in, and I know the first time Iwatched the shows, and I
thought, okay, and TV series,how's this gonna work?
You used to sing movies, let'sjust face it, right?
And then I saw how you you yougot into it, and I thought, this
is genius.
Why did you do that?
What made you think TV show asopposed to movie?
Dallas Jenkins (15:04):
Because a movie has a limited amount of time,
and so they always movies aboutJesus always tend to go from
miracle to miracle, Bible verseto Bible verse, and you don't
actually get to connect with thepeople who are impacted by what
Jesus is doing.
You're seeing it through hiseyes.
So it's like uh he heals thisperson, and then he goes to this
person and and heals them oftheir anxiety, and then he
(15:25):
encounters the religiousleaders, and so it's kind of
like uh it almost feels likemontage of Bible verses set to
fill.
Uh Television show allows youto go deeper into these stories.
So we get to get to we get toknow the apostles, we get to
know the enemies of Jesus, weget to know the people who are
healed by Jesus, who are changedby Jesus, people who reject
Jesus.
(15:45):
So the to me, long-formstorytelling is something that
hadn't been done in the Jesusstory, and I think it demanded
it.
And I think that's what peoplehave been responding to is
saying, okay, I get to knowPeter, I get to know Matthew, I
get to know Nicodemus, I get toknow the high priest Caiaphas, I
get to know the Romans who areopposing it, like Pontius
Pilate.
(16:05):
That allows the moments ofscripture to be even more
impactful because there's stakesinvolved.
It's not just, and then thishappened.
It's, ooh, I want to know whathappens to this person.
Oh, that's right.
This moment from scripturethat's so famous impacted these
people, and we know thesepeople.
Carla Hinton (16:20):
Well, so knowing that you were coming, I'm acting
based in the first couple of uhshows, just to kind of remind
myself, hey, this is how it allstarted.
And the the moment when MaryImagining comes out, comes from
that corner, and Nicodemus islike, he's trying to drive out
the demon that you're like,listen, you're not gonna be able
to do it.
And I just got chill aboutthat.
Oh, God.
Remember this.
And so you're right, it doesbring you into those stories in
(16:44):
a way that a movie can't becauseit's going on.
Dallas Jenkins (16:47):
So the Bible when it says, or introduces Mary
Magdalene, just says, who waspossessed by seven demons,
changed.
Well, there's that's all itsays.
The by the gospels wereessentially designed, written to
be Jesus' greatest heads toprove that he was the Messiah.
But there's not it's not reallytelling you the deeper stories
of the people involved.
(17:07):
And so by the time in episodeone, we really take you into
Mary Magdalene's past so thatwhen she's redeemed, it actually
really means something.
It's actually impactful.
And people can identify it.
But we've had in fact, I justheard yesterday, it was very
moving to me.
There's a a shelter inBangladesh that helps women who
(17:31):
had been trafficked.
And it's a horrible, horribleexperience, but this place helps
them.
And they said that the chosenhas so impacted them because
they see the first the firstepisode shows Jesus helping a
woman like us, right?
And so I think when people canidentify with the struggles that
(17:53):
some of these people faced,then they can identify with the
solution to those struggles.
Carla Hinton (17:58):
I was at an interfaith alliance of Oklahoma
dinner the other day, and theywere, so we were all at tables,
I'm a Christian, but there werepeople from different uh faiths,
and they, you were talkingabout you're coming, and some
does then follow you.
And one of the lakes who'sbuilt the Pife said she has all
of her books that, you know, uhChristian books, and she's
trying to follow along to seehow effort you are here.
(18:19):
She says she's just fascinatedby what you've done.
And had you ever thought thatthis would might uh appeal to
people who aren't necessarilyFristian, but who were
interested in Jesus?
Dallas Jenkins (18:28):
Well, that that that was the hope was that I'm
just gonna tell the stories ofJesus.
And and I'm gonna, I justdecided early on, I'm not going
to have an agenda in mind.
I'm just going to tell thestories as authentically as I
can, and then leave the responseup to God and to the audience,
right?
And so we have people on ourcast and crew.
(18:49):
I mean, over half of our castand crew are traditional
believers.
And I think that is they theycame because they really just
loved the show.
They loved the historical dramaon it.
And I think that's what isallowed a lot of people from
different faiths or lackthereof, people of no faith
background, to appreciate theshow is it even though we see
Jesus, all the we see Jesus evenpreaching, they'll say it
(19:10):
doesn't feel preach, it doesn'tfeel like it's an agenda.
It just feels like a dramathat's accurately capturing the
stories of Jesus.
But I think sometimes we takeon too much responsibility to
try to convince people of ourfaith as opposed to just maybe
taking away some of the hurdlesthrough an authentic portrayal
of Jesus and then lettingletting them respond
accordingly.
(19:31):
But that's not up to me.
Carla Hinton (19:33):
When did you know that crowdsourcing was going to
be the way to go?
Or did you do that part?
Dallas Jenkins (19:38):
I'm still that part of I never fully believed
in it and still because it'sit's been so difficult.
But I I thought the idea ofcrowdfunding uh was ridiculous.
I I thought there's no way it'sgonna work.
I mean, the all-timecrowdfunding record was at the
time was five and a half milliondollars from projects that had
huge fan bases, and I had no fanbase that was coming off of a
(19:59):
big career failure.
So I thought there's no waythis is gonna work, but I
didn't, you know, I thought,well, it's none of my business.
Let's just try it.
And we we put this short filmout, and I people watched the
short film and I said, hey, ifyou want to invest in this show,
here's the opportunity.
And when it generated over $10million for 16,000 people, I was
as surprised as anybody.
(20:19):
And it's still, we justdecided, you know what, there's
something about the fact thatthe show is free and the fact
that the people are involved,people that love the show are
giving back to it.
It has really generated a lotof heat for the show all over
the world.
And so, you know, the fact thatprobably less than five
percent, sorry, less less sorry.
(20:40):
I don't know how I say this.
Oh less than five percent ofthe people who watch the show
actually pay for it.
And there's something actuallyreally beautiful about that,
that there's this group ofpeople that that say we're gonna
keep this show free for therest of the leader.
And so people all will be ableto watch the show for free.
So it's not easy, but it'scertainly been beautiful to
watch.
Carla Hinton (23:46):
You may have talked to people about this
before, but how did you find thethe actor?
Thomas Atrey, Jesus, yeah, whathappened?
Dallas Jenkins (23:54):
So 10 years ago, gosh no, now it's probably one
though, it's probably 15 yearsago.
I did a short film for mychurch on Good Friday about the
crucifixion from the perspectiveof the two thieves on the
cross.
And Jonathan auditioned for oneof the two thieves because the
part of Jesus was so small inthe short film.
He didn't show up until thevery end.
So I had all these great actorsauditioning for the two
(24:16):
thieves, and all the peopleauditioning for Jesus were
horrible.
So I'm like, well, I needsomeone who's good for Jesus,
even though it's a small role.
So I said, but Jonathan, he dida good job because one of the
thieves, let's have him auditionfor Jesus.
And 10 seconds into hisaudition, I saw what everyone
else sees when they watch theshow.
I'm like, my goodness, thisguy's incredible.
And so we filmed that surefilming a rock quarry in Elgin,
(24:37):
Illinois.
And it in in the spring of no,it was in the fall of sorry,
winter of like 2012, it wasfreezing.
And uh after that, we didmultiple short films and
vignettes for my church withJonathan.
And it was almost like atraining round.
It was like a test case forwhat we ended up doing.
(24:59):
So we got the opportunity to dothe show, he was the first
person cast.
Carla Hinton (25:03):
So what's been the biggest challenge, would you
say, making chosen?
Everything, everything.
Is that your outbreak?
Dallas Jenkins (25:11):
Look, I mean, the chosen is the most uh the
biggest blessing that I'd everhad.
Of course, it's a tremendousprivilege to be able to tell
this story, but from the momentwe started doing it, it's like
everything conspires againstthis.
I mean, my family health criseshave started and been nonstop.
From the moment we started toto to to to today.
(25:32):
The challenge of the growth hasbeen difficult because now it's
you know, 200 casting crewmembers every way on the set.
And uh while also trying togenerate crowdfunding, while
also trying to, in many ways,make some of this up as we go
along.
Not the story, of course, butthe the how to sustain ourselves
doing this project outside thesystem allows us a lot of
(25:54):
freedom and a lot of ownership,but it's also very difficult
because nothing we don't have astudio or a network behind us
that has billions of dollars attheir disposal that they can
just kind of keep things easmake things easy for us.
So from the fact that we'vekind of created it from scratch
to the fact that uh feels likeeverything is difficult in in
even just my personal life withmy family, that's been a
(26:16):
challenge when it's alsotremendous summer to ready.
Carla Hinton (26:20):
You just touched on something I wanted to ask
you.
How do other people in theindustry talk to you guys?
Had had they react to you, likeyou've photo what you were
trying to do.
Dallas Jenkins (26:30):
Well, at first there was no reaction, no one
knew who we were, no one cared.
The industry certainly doesdidn't have a hallway for the
kind of thing we were doing.
A a Jesus show, B, Crowdfoot,C, kind of building this
audience from scratch, uh,releasing it.
We again we kind of made up ourown platforms and our own ways
for people to watch it on a freeapp that they could connect to
their television.
Now, of course, the industry isall over it.
(26:54):
I mean, they're they're the youknow, every streamer was
interested in in the show and isalso trying to is interested in
how we did what we did, kind ofbuilding an audience from
scratch, our social mediaengagement strategies.
So now it's been a cool thingbecause because we had several
years of all group to beginwith, we can still maintain that
the studios don't want tochange our the content.
(27:15):
They're like, all right, you'veclearly fit me something out.
We don't want to mess withthat, but we want to put some
gasoline on the fire.
So now that we have arelationship with Prime Video,
Amazon Prime Video, it'sactually really cool because
they let us do what we do bestand then we use them for what
they do best.
But at first, there wasn't theyI I would say they weren't if
they weren't uh rejecting us,they didn't even care.
(27:35):
So they didn't even care enoughto or know enough to even be
mean about it.
It's just they didn't notice.
So we said, all right, we'll doit ourselves.
Carla Hinton (27:42):
Was there any one thing that lets you know that
you on their radar?
Dallas Jenkins (27:46):
Well, in in season two, when the show really
started to hit a tipping pointduring COVID, and we were the
first, we were the only projectin like in in America to be
filming during COVID.
And we kind of invented our ownCOVID protocols.
That's when the industrystarted to go, okay, because all
(28:07):
the all the unions, like theactor unions and stuff like
that, they had the rules aboutit.
So then when when the headlinesand in all the industry
magazines are about to showthis, that's filming, they're
like, oh, what's this show?
And then they discovered, oh mygoodness, it's got tens of
millions of viewers all over theworld.
What's going on here?
And then they said, Oh, wait,why don't you come on our
platform?
And we said, No, we're good,we're doing it ourselves.
So that was when I think it wasaround when COVID hit, was when
(28:29):
things started to reach alittle bit more awareness.
Carla Hinton (28:32):
Okay.
So you come from a family of ofuh people who take the Bible
seriously and who have maybereached out to people through
different avenues like the book,yeah, the left behind series.
How did that influence you ordid it?
Dallas Jenkins (28:47):
Yeah, so I think the concept of taking Bible
stories on Bible, in my dad'scase, was left behind books for
Bible prophecies, and makingthem uh palatable to a modern
audience is clearly somethingthat I've been influenced by.
Yeah.
My dad is not a preacher, I'mnot a preacher, we're not
(29:08):
theologians, but I think we dounderstand storytelling.
And so taking these biblicalconcepts and turning them into
something that the modernaudience can can relate to, and
maybe bringing the words off thepage, making them feel
accessible, is something that Idefinitely was influenced by by
my father.
(29:29):
I think a love of scripture, alove of storytelling, undoed
something obviously differentthan he did, but but I think
it's the same idea as we'rewe're here to tell stories.
And and and we're gonna takethe greatest story ever told and
and remind the world that thisis this is something that's
accessible, that you canactually get it as well.
And that's what we heard frompeople laughing the left behind
(29:51):
books is oh, okay, now Iunderstand the book of
Revelation better.
And people are coming to mesaying, Oh, now I understand the
gospel better.
So I think that's we'recertainly a little bit of like
follower likes on there.
Carla Hinton (30:01):
You talked about North Church, and I know if I'm
not mistaken, I think Mark Greengoes to North Church.
Tell me a little bit about yourrelationship with him, if you
don't mind, because I know Iknow him probably the the the
most.
Dallas Jenkins (30:12):
But first so Mart saw the chosen and it
really tremendously impactedhim.
And he felt led to just help usin some way.
And so he started reaching outto people saying, Do you know
Dallas Jenkins?
I'd like to get a hold of him.
And he was he had the poll, hewas asking a few of his friends,
(30:34):
he said, because he's like, Idon't know him, but I have you
know friends who do.
And literally on the day thathe was asking people, how do I
get to find Dallas Jenkins, hesaw on his phone a little
notification popped up onFacebook, and it was me reaching
out to him because I was wewere looking to build this first
century campus, a first centuryset.
(30:56):
And I I knew that the Greenfamily had done the Museum of
the Bible and had had had, and Ithought I reached out to him
because I thought, uh, would youguys be interested in being
involved in this first centuryset?
Because we could also use it askind of an educational tour.
And Mark goes, well, that's mybrother, that's not me.
But some reason I've been ledto try to find you, and right on
(31:18):
the day that I was looking, youfound me.
And so that yeah, he heard mespeak.
And my wife, my here, my wifeand I speak, and we and he heard
us say, our goal is is to justreveal the Bible.
We're just a TV show, we're notthe Bible.
And something about that reallyspoke to him, and his specialty
is like languages.
He's getting the Bibletranslated into the thousands of
(31:41):
languages.
He thought, I'll just help downtranslate the show into as many
languages as possible.
And and then he got sucked intothe vortex, and now he's that
would be possible.
He and his uh organization arefinancing the whole show.
Carla Hinton (31:53):
I love that.
Okay, okay.
One other thing, you talkedabout listening, being blessed
by being able to do this.
Can you expand just a littlebit more?
Dallas Jenkins (32:00):
Because I came in uh on the TLN to um well to
be tasked with portraying thegreatest story ever told for a
new generation and to be allowedto steward this project that's
in literally every country inthe world is an immense
(32:23):
challenge and it's an immenseresponsibility.
But when you hear from peoplein third world countries who are
telling you that the showchanged their life, where that
you're hearing from there was ascreening for uh 300 orphans in
Madagascar.
It was translated into theirlanguage for the first time, the
first time television had beentranslated in their language.
(32:43):
They never seemed Tellersbefore.
And they're watching theseorphans are watching episode
three of season one of Jesuswith the children.
And some of their comments wereOh my goodness, this is a god
who's like me.
He he brushes his teeth in thestream and he makes his own food
just like these orphans inMadagascar.
It is the greatest thing in inthe world.
(33:03):
I mean, there's nothing morebeautiful than that.
And so the the challenge is, ofcourse, getting it done, but
the blessing is people who tellyou that their lives have been
changed by it in every countryin the world in dozens of
languages.
I'll never do anything in mylife besides my family as as
meaningful as that.
Carla Hinton (33:23):
Thank you so much.
Erik Tryggestad (33:26):
I got a quick question in your mind.
You grew up here in the storyof Jesus' crucifixion, right?
I mean it's very familiar toyou.
Do you have any new insights onit now that you've attempted to
recreate it and film it,something you maybe had to
(33:46):
consider it before?
Dallas Jenkins (33:47):
Yes.
I mean the and and you'll seethat in our movie, which is when
we were looking for ways totell this story in a way that
hadn't been told before, becauseI've seen it, I've seen you
know a dozen crucifixionprojects.
Like, well, what what can wesay that's different but that
(34:07):
still honors the actual storyitself?
And it's when you start toconnect the old testament, when
we start to go back all the wayto the creation, the creation
story and Moses you start torealize that the crucifixion in
many ways both meaningfully andvisually has connections that
(34:33):
have been prepar that have beenleading to the crucifixion for
hundreds and hundreds of years.
I mean, even just you know, thethe blood on the doorpost that
it put to so that the angel ofdeath would pass over their
houses.
I mean two two blood two bloodmarks on the sides and one on
the top, and then you look atthe cross of Christ and you see
(34:54):
there's two blood marks on thesides and one on the top, and
and uh you see that what he'sdoing as a sacrificial lamb is
the same thing that Passoverwas.
And you go, wow, this is astory that's that's was was
thousands of years in themaking.
And so that hasn't beenportrayed on film before.
It's about probably beenpreached about, but it has been
(35:16):
portrayed on film, and so that'ssomething that was really
exciting was to not just tellthe story of the crucifixion,
but to tell the story of allGermanity.
That's awesome.
Erik Tryggestad (35:24):
Above my girls, I got a 17-year-old and a
12-girl.
They loved the show.
First time my 17-year-old sawJesus, she said, Oh, that's the
guy from Dog with a Blog.
Oh my goodness.
Yes, that's a that's a keeping.
The fact that he was able toplay out of that stereotype, I
think, is really for doing theMessiah is really uh credit his
acting.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Yeah, well, you can be uh a French doctor on the dog
with a blog, and you can playthe Messiah of the Universe.
Uh, great story for the dudepaper tonight.
Erik Tryggestad (36:02):
Oh, yeah, I usually so embarrassed when they
tell her ass you can say.
Dallas Jenkins (36:10):
That's one of my favorite things to hear when
you when I hear that12-year-olds are sudden being
while they act the show.
That's not what I was thinkingwhen I made it.
Um but I think there'ssomething about authenticity
that even young kids appreciate,especially now.
And uh my favorite thing tohear.
Erik Tryggestad (36:27):
Good.
Thank you.
BT Irwin (36:34):
Many thanks to Dallas Jenkins for sitting down to
visit with the ChristianChronicles Bobby Ross Jr., and
many thanks to OklahomaChristian University for helping
us get this interview.
In the show notes, we'll post alink to Bobby's story about his
conversation with DallasJenkins, and we'll also post a
link to uh The Chosen in caseyou haven't watched it yet.
You can go check it out.
We hope that something youheard in this episode
(36:56):
encouraged, enlightened, orenriched you in some way.
If it did, thanks be to God.
And please pay it forward.
Subscribe to this podcast andshare it with a friend.
Recommend and review itwherever you listen to your
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Your subscription,recommendation, and review help
us reach more people.
Please send your comments,ideas, and suggestions to
podcasts at ChristianChronicle.org.
(37:18):
And don't forget, our ministryto inform and inspire Christians
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that relies on your generosity.
So if you like the show and youwant to keep it going and make
it even better, please make atax-deductible gift to the
Christian Chronicle at ChristianChronicle.org slash donate.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis a production of the
(37:38):
Christian ChronicleIncorporated, informing and
inspiring Church of Christcongregations, members, and
ministries around the worldsince 1943.
The Christian Chronicle'smanaging editor is Calvin
Cockrell, Editor-in-Chief BobbyRoss Jr., President and CEO Eric
Trigestaff.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted,
and edited by B.T.
Irwin and is produced by JamesFlanagan at Podcast Your Voice
(38:02):
Studios in the Motor City,Detroit, Michigan, USA.
Until next time, may grace andpeace be yours in abundance.
Family and friends, neighbors, and most of all
strangers, welcome to theChristian Chronicle Podcast.
We're bringing you the storiesshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
I'm B.T.
Irwin.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
I visit a lot of Church ofChrist congregations, and one
thing that I discovered over thelast couple of years, many of
(00:25):
them make the hit streaming showThe Chosen part of their adult
and or youth classes.
The remarkable thing about itis that I find this to be the
case for what we might callconservative or traditional
Church of Christ congregationsand the ones that are more
quote-unquote progressive.
I've been to a Church of Christcongregation that still uses
(00:46):
the King James Version forpreaching and scripture
readings, and the old red hymnalfor congregational singing, yet
when they gather for Wednesdaynight Bible study, they watch
and discuss the chosen.
So the show has achievedsomething remarkable beyond its
widespread popularity and use inChurch of Christ congregations.
It's an innovation, if youwill, that seems to unify Church
(01:07):
of Christ congregations allalong the conservative to
progressive spectrum.
Now, in case you aren't one ofthose Church of Christ folks who
knows much about the show, TheChosen is what Wikipedia calls a
quote Christian historicaldrama television series, in
quote, that is now in its fifthseason.
The Chosen follows the life andministry of Jesus of Nazareth
through the eyes of the peoplewho interacted with him.
(01:29):
What started as a crowdfundedshow, available only on the Vid
Angel platform for subscribersonly was released for free
during the COVID pandemic in2020 and quickly found its way
to the mainstream.
It eventually moved to Netflixand is now available on Amazon
Prime Video.
As of 2025, over 280 millionpeople worldwide have streamed
(01:49):
the show, including all of thoseChurch of Christ folks watching
it in fellowship halls andyouth rooms every week.
Dallas Jenkins, the creator,principal writer, and showrunner
for The Chosen, recently spokeat Oklahoma Christian University
in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
The Christian Chronicle's ownBobby Ross Jr.
walked over to the school andmanaged to get some time alone
to interview Jenkins.
(02:10):
We took Bobby's recording ofthat conversation and turned it
into this episode, you're aboutto hear.
You'll also hear our own CEO,Eric Trigostad, and Carla
Hinton, who is the faith editorat the Oklahoman, the big daily
newspaper there in OklahomaCity.
So enjoy Bobby Ross Jr.'sinterview with Dallas Jenkins.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (02:29):
So I guess you just wrapped up season six.
Can you talk about, I guess,kind of the process of season
six?
And you went to three differentcities, I think.
Dallas Jenkins (02:39):
Three, yeah.
Well, two in two differentcountries.
So season six was by far thehardest season we've ever
filmed.
One of the hardest things I'veever done.
It included filming in Utah,Texas, and Italy.
We were in Italy for a month.
And we did I think season sixwas meant to be hard.
It was the longest season offilming.
(03:00):
Yeah, the hottest, the mostphysically challenging.
I think when you're capturingthe crucifixion, which is what
season six is, it capturesessentially around 24 hours
Jesus Jesus' final hours.
And I think that God wanted usto get a little taste of some
suffering and sacrifice for thepurpose of capturing this.
(03:23):
I think a lot of the strain andchallenge and uh even at times
desperation that we had while wewere filming comes out on
screen.
It it it I think it was it wasvery visceral.
And uh I think it's gonna it'sgonna turn out to be our best
season as well, but it wasdefinitely our hardest.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (03:41):
So will it debut in March of next year?
Dallas Jenkins (03:44):
No, it'll be it'll be a while.
It'll actually be late fall ofnext year.
It'd be Kelda.
The the time there the theseparation between the previous
season is longer because a itwas longer filming.
We have we our hope is totranslate this into several
dozen languages and to releaseit all at once in those multiple
(04:08):
languages, and that takes along time.
So a lot of times we've justreleased it in English and
Spanish, maybe, and then theother languages catch up.
But this time I really want todo it at the same time.
Uh the first six episodes willcome out to streaming, and then
the finale is a is a big kind ofsupersized theatrical
experience.
So that'll be released all overthe world at the same time in
(04:31):
early 2027.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (04:33):
So I I guess I worked for the Associated Press
when The Passion of the Christcame out.
I remember I covered like thatfirst day when that came out.
People were coming out of thetheaters with like red eyes, and
it was just a really emotionalexperience.
You may remember that for fromseeing it yourself.
I'm wondering, do you expectwhat I guess how do you expect
(04:56):
your version of the crucifixionmaybe to be the same and
different from what we saw withMel Gibson's portrayal?
Dallas Jenkins (05:04):
So there's two ways that I think we're going to
be different from The Passionof Christ.
Number one, we have more toolsin our tool belt than he did by
the fact that we have fiveseasons leading up to this.
So he was using a lot ofviolence and visual uh uh
(05:26):
intensity to try to capture thereality of the crucifixion and
the weight of the crucifixion.
But it was a movie, so we onlyhad a limited amount of time.
So uh we don't need to do thatto communicate just how visceral
and intense a crucifixion was,because for many people, just a
simple reaction from one ofJesus' closest friends is gonna
(05:51):
break us because we've knownthese characters for so long, so
it has even more emotionalweight because of the
backstories that we've had forover five years.
Uh the second thing is it'sjust not gonna be quite as uh
explicitly violent.
Mel did it did it already.
I feel like I don't haveanything new to add to the
(06:13):
physicality of it.
We've seen dozens ofportrayals.
Mel's was the most violent.
I think we've got an idea ofwhat that looks like.
I don't think I need to go intothat and to make it almost.
I mean, sometimes it's almostlike a documentary if you want
to capture it accurately.
And I feel like for this, thestorytelling that we're doing,
(06:33):
we're trying to tell a story notjust of the crucifixion, but of
the history of humanity.
This movie is going to coverand and remind you of the
history of from the creation ofthe universe all the way to the
crucifixion to help establishthe need for the crucifixion.
So we're we're coming at itfrom a little bit more of uh I
(06:56):
think an emotional journey and aspiritual journey than a than a
physical one, if that makessense.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (07:01):
Yeah, but I would assume that people coming
out of your theater, it's goingto be an impactful experience.
I sure hope so as well.
Dallas Jenkins (07:09):
I sure hope so.
I mean, I it's it's definitelyas we were filming it, we
couldn't get through the dayswithout taking turns having some
sort of emotional breakdown.
I had my first experience onset where I couldn't get myself
together emotionally.
But I can't I can't predictexactly how everyone's gonna
(07:31):
react, but it's for for us andfor what I believe we're
capturing and the story thatwe're telling in the truths of
the crucifixion, I think it'sgonna be easily the most uh
emotional impact our show hasever had.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (07:45):
And y'all did film in the same general area as
The Passion was filmed?
Dallas Jenkins (07:49):
Yeah, so The Passion was filmed in Matera,
Italy, which is a city that isstill preserved its thousands of
years old status.
I mean, it's the only place wecould find where the horizon
line still looked like the firstcentury.
And so m several crucifixionprojects have filmed there, all
the way back to from to thePassion of St.
(08:11):
Matthew in in a Pasolini's filmin 19 the 1960s.
So there's a reason whymultiple projects have filmed
there.
And so we were, I think our ourcrosses were set up about 50
yards from where Mills were.
And he's actually filming theresurrection ruby there as well,
right?
So very, very gel overlapanyway, you were no, no, no.
Uh but yeah, we gave give eachother space.
(08:33):
But but there's it's a very,very special place, and uh it
was clear to us that it was theonly place we could that that
that was right for this project.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (08:42):
I read that you knew Charlie Kirk and that you
were, I guess you were filmingseason six when you found out
about what happened to him.
Could you talk, I guess, aboutI guess how you did know him and
maybe how you approachpolitics.
And I know maybe you all havesome similarities, but maybe
also some differences and howyou approach those kind of
(09:03):
conversations.
Dallas Jenkins (09:04):
Well, I I I will say I wasn't close.
I I I knew I knew him a littlebit.
We had a lot of mutual friends,and we were in our last week of
filming when we found out Ithink the differences between
what we're doing, what Charlie'sdoing, of course, is Charlie
was, I think, kind of usedpolitics as an on-ramp into
discussions of Christianity.
(09:26):
We are kind of the other wayaround.
I mean, we're we're talkingabout the stories of Jesus.
I'm focused on the stories ofJesus.
We don't get into the politicalrealm as a show, even though
many people want us to from bothsides.
The story of Jesus isoftentimes used for political
(09:47):
purposes.
Uh, one side likes to quoteJesus to support some of their
political ends or their um uhpolicies that they're wanting,
and then others, the other sidewill use other quotes to support
their policies.
What we're trying to do is justtell the stories in Jesus and
how people react to that is upto them.
It's between them and God, themand their families, them and
(10:08):
their church.
Uh, we're just trying toauthentically portray the
stories of Jesus as much aspossible.
I used to be a little bit morepolitically active on social
media.
Since I've started doing TheChosen, I've dramatically slowed
that down because I feel likeby telling the story of Jesus, I
kind of want to follow kind ofhis example of, hey, look, I'm
(10:29):
here about your heart.
I'm here about Jesus was hereabout the heart.
And he was always speaking tovery diverse groups of people.
And how sometimes he wasdivisive in his claims of uh
salvation, and other times hewas unifying, but it was always
the unification or the divisionwas always on the spiritual
(10:51):
level, not the political level.
Now, of course, he you knowwould upset people sometimes
because of politics.
But I just found that what myjob is is different from other
people in the public sphere.
Because I'm just trying to tellthe stories of Jesus as
authentically as I can, and thenthe response is not up to me.
He was a little bit more likelooking for a response, looking
(11:14):
for a to for engagement on thepolitical sphere, and that's
less my interest now.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (11:18):
You've been to Oklahoma before?
Dallas Jenkins (11:20):
I have been to Oklahoma.
I have not been to OklahomaChristian before.
This is my first time visitingthis campus, but I've been I was
at the Dead Center FilmFestival like 15 years ago.
I mean, I live in Texas now,and you know, of course, Texans
believe Jesus lived there, whichis why we that film the show
there.
Oklahoma's a little different,but the fact that the the high
(11:41):
heat and humidity even inOctober is familiar as a uh
living in Texas now.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (11:47):
But I love Oklahoma.
Lord, do you live in Midlothianor Midlothian?
Yeah.
Dallas Jenkins (11:52):
So that's where we film.
So I moved uh moved toMidlothian a few years ago.
So we have how old are you?
I'm 50.
I turned 50 this year.
50.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (12:00):
Oh, congrats.
That's young.
I'm 57.
So you have four groundchildren?
Dallas Jenkins (12:04):
Four four children, yes.
Two uh two getting married, oneone already married this year,
the other one getting marriedlater this year.
So they're all uh they're allgrown up.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (12:13):
Do you do a lot of appearances like that you're
doing here at OklahomaChristian?
Dallas Jenkins (12:17):
I used to do more.
Now that the filming has reallybecome comprehensive, I don't
do quite as many.
But uh I have so you know, comeand see is the nonprofit that
finances our show.
And Mark Green started Come andSee, so the Green family's
here.
So I actually get out toOklahoma City every now and then
(12:38):
for them.
So that so it made sense for meto come here.
I accepted this request to comespeak because then I also spoke
yesterday at North Church andwas able to spend time with
people from Come and See.
So it was it makes sense.
Oklahoma City is becoming alittle bit of a a second office.
Oh, okay.
So Okay.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (12:57):
What excites you about coming to a university
like Oklahoma Christian?
Dallas Jenkins (13:01):
Well, I love college students.
I I think in many ways thechosen was is made for for the
college age me.
When I was in college, as abeliever, I just didn't have
there wasn't much other than myveggie taste.
There, there wasn't much in theway of media that spoke to my
(13:22):
experience and my faith.
And I was always frustrated bythat.
And it's taken a long time forfaith media to catch up, but I
feel like now what I'm excitedabout is being able to speak to
college students and also makethe chosen, hopefully for them,
saying, Yeah, even at your age,someone who loved this
generation, of course, lovestell you know media, social
(13:43):
media, television, and movies.
And even at 50, I feel like Ican I can serve some media
that's going to speak to theirexperience as much as possible.
So I love I love coming tocollege campuses because I think
that this is the generationthat we sometimes complain about
because Gen Z is so differentthan than we are, but this is an
(14:04):
opportunity to perhaps learnfrom each other.
And you mentioned Come and See,is that the name of the Come
and See is the name of thenonprofit that finances the
church.
Bobby Ross, Jr. (14:13):
And y'all were trying to raise 30 million for
the crucifixion?
Dallas Jenkins (14:17):
For the crucifixion movie.
And you've got like 25 million?
Yeah, I think we're run, Ithink we've gotten to the to I
think by the time the week isover, I think we're gonna have
reached our goal.
But they finance everything.
So this year was more becausethe crucifixion is so big.
Crucifixion movie is so big,and going to Italy and all these
things were so much biggerproduction-wise than we normally
(14:39):
do.
Come and see agreed, we need togo all in, we need to make this
as big as possible.
So this is our most expensiveseason as well.
Carla Hinton (14:45):
Well, so one of the things that I was interested
in, and I know the first time Iwatched the shows, and I
thought, okay, and TV series,how's this gonna work?
You used to sing movies, let'sjust face it, right?
And then I saw how you you yougot into it, and I thought, this
is genius.
Why did you do that?
What made you think TV show asopposed to movie?
Dallas Jenkins (15:04):
Because a movie has a limited amount of time,
and so they always movies aboutJesus always tend to go from
miracle to miracle, Bible verseto Bible verse, and you don't
actually get to connect with thepeople who are impacted by what
Jesus is doing.
You're seeing it through hiseyes.
So it's like uh he heals thisperson, and then he goes to this
person and and heals them oftheir anxiety, and then he
(15:25):
encounters the religiousleaders, and so it's kind of
like uh it almost feels likemontage of Bible verses set to
fill.
Uh Television show allows youto go deeper into these stories.
So we get to get to we get toknow the apostles, we get to
know the enemies of Jesus, weget to know the people who are
healed by Jesus, who are changedby Jesus, people who reject
Jesus.
(15:45):
So the to me, long-formstorytelling is something that
hadn't been done in the Jesusstory, and I think it demanded
it.
And I think that's what peoplehave been responding to is
saying, okay, I get to knowPeter, I get to know Matthew, I
get to know Nicodemus, I get toknow the high priest Caiaphas, I
get to know the Romans who areopposing it, like Pontius
Pilate.
(16:05):
That allows the moments ofscripture to be even more
impactful because there's stakesinvolved.
It's not just, and then thishappened.
It's, ooh, I want to know whathappens to this person.
Oh, that's right.
This moment from scripturethat's so famous impacted these
people, and we know thesepeople.
Carla Hinton (16:20):
Well, so knowing that you were coming, I'm acting
based in the first couple of uhshows, just to kind of remind
myself, hey, this is how it allstarted.
And the the moment when MaryImagining comes out, comes from
that corner, and Nicodemus islike, he's trying to drive out
the demon that you're like,listen, you're not gonna be able
to do it.
And I just got chill aboutthat.
Oh, God.
Remember this.
And so you're right, it doesbring you into those stories in
(16:44):
a way that a movie can't becauseit's going on.
Dallas Jenkins (16:47):
So the Bible when it says, or introduces Mary
Magdalene, just says, who waspossessed by seven demons,
changed.
Well, there's that's all itsays.
The by the gospels wereessentially designed, written to
be Jesus' greatest heads toprove that he was the Messiah.
But there's not it's not reallytelling you the deeper stories
of the people involved.
(17:07):
And so by the time in episodeone, we really take you into
Mary Magdalene's past so thatwhen she's redeemed, it actually
really means something.
It's actually impactful.
And people can identify it.
But we've had in fact, I justheard yesterday, it was very
moving to me.
There's a a shelter inBangladesh that helps women who
(17:31):
had been trafficked.
And it's a horrible, horribleexperience, but this place helps
them.
And they said that the chosenhas so impacted them because
they see the first the firstepisode shows Jesus helping a
woman like us, right?
And so I think when people canidentify with the struggles that
(17:53):
some of these people faced,then they can identify with the
solution to those struggles.
Carla Hinton (17:58):
I was at an interfaith alliance of Oklahoma
dinner the other day, and theywere, so we were all at tables,
I'm a Christian, but there werepeople from different uh faiths,
and they, you were talkingabout you're coming, and some
does then follow you.
And one of the lakes who'sbuilt the Pife said she has all
of her books that, you know, uhChristian books, and she's
trying to follow along to seehow effort you are here.
(18:19):
She says she's just fascinatedby what you've done.
And had you ever thought thatthis would might uh appeal to
people who aren't necessarilyFristian, but who were
interested in Jesus?
Dallas Jenkins (18:28):
Well, that that that was the hope was that I'm
just gonna tell the stories ofJesus.
And and I'm gonna, I justdecided early on, I'm not going
to have an agenda in mind.
I'm just going to tell thestories as authentically as I
can, and then leave the responseup to God and to the audience,
right?
And so we have people on ourcast and crew.
(18:49):
I mean, over half of our castand crew are traditional
believers.
And I think that is they theycame because they really just
loved the show.
They loved the historical dramaon it.
And I think that's what isallowed a lot of people from
different faiths or lackthereof, people of no faith
background, to appreciate theshow is it even though we see
Jesus, all the we see Jesus evenpreaching, they'll say it
(19:10):
doesn't feel preach, it doesn'tfeel like it's an agenda.
It just feels like a dramathat's accurately capturing the
stories of Jesus.
But I think sometimes we takeon too much responsibility to
try to convince people of ourfaith as opposed to just maybe
taking away some of the hurdlesthrough an authentic portrayal
of Jesus and then lettingletting them respond
accordingly.
(19:31):
But that's not up to me.
Carla Hinton (19:33):
When did you know that crowdsourcing was going to
be the way to go?
Or did you do that part?
Dallas Jenkins (19:38):
I'm still that part of I never fully believed
in it and still because it'sit's been so difficult.
But I I thought the idea ofcrowdfunding uh was ridiculous.
I I thought there's no way it'sgonna work.
I mean, the all-timecrowdfunding record was at the
time was five and a half milliondollars from projects that had
huge fan bases, and I had no fanbase that was coming off of a
(19:59):
big career failure.
So I thought there's no waythis is gonna work, but I
didn't, you know, I thought,well, it's none of my business.
Let's just try it.
And we we put this short filmout, and I people watched the
short film and I said, hey, ifyou want to invest in this show,
here's the opportunity.
And when it generated over $10million for 16,000 people, I was
as surprised as anybody.
(20:19):
And it's still, we justdecided, you know what, there's
something about the fact thatthe show is free and the fact
that the people are involved,people that love the show are
giving back to it.
It has really generated a lotof heat for the show all over
the world.
And so, you know, the fact thatprobably less than five
percent, sorry, less less sorry.
(20:40):
I don't know how I say this.
Oh less than five percent ofthe people who watch the show
actually pay for it.
And there's something actuallyreally beautiful about that,
that there's this group ofpeople that that say we're gonna
keep this show free for therest of the leader.
And so people all will be ableto watch the show for free.
So it's not easy, but it'scertainly been beautiful to
watch.
Carla Hinton (23:46):
You may have talked to people about this
before, but how did you find thethe actor?
Thomas Atrey, Jesus, yeah, whathappened?
Dallas Jenkins (23:54):
So 10 years ago, gosh no, now it's probably one
though, it's probably 15 yearsago.
I did a short film for mychurch on Good Friday about the
crucifixion from the perspectiveof the two thieves on the
cross.
And Jonathan auditioned for oneof the two thieves because the
part of Jesus was so small inthe short film.
He didn't show up until thevery end.
So I had all these great actorsauditioning for the two
(24:16):
thieves, and all the peopleauditioning for Jesus were
horrible.
So I'm like, well, I needsomeone who's good for Jesus,
even though it's a small role.
So I said, but Jonathan, he dida good job because one of the
thieves, let's have him auditionfor Jesus.
And 10 seconds into hisaudition, I saw what everyone
else sees when they watch theshow.
I'm like, my goodness, thisguy's incredible.
And so we filmed that surefilming a rock quarry in Elgin,
(24:37):
Illinois.
And it in in the spring of no,it was in the fall of sorry,
winter of like 2012, it wasfreezing.
And uh after that, we didmultiple short films and
vignettes for my church withJonathan.
And it was almost like atraining round.
It was like a test case forwhat we ended up doing.
(24:59):
So we got the opportunity to dothe show, he was the first
person cast.
Carla Hinton (25:03):
So what's been the biggest challenge, would you
say, making chosen?
Everything, everything.
Is that your outbreak?
Dallas Jenkins (25:11):
Look, I mean, the chosen is the most uh the
biggest blessing that I'd everhad.
Of course, it's a tremendousprivilege to be able to tell
this story, but from the momentwe started doing it, it's like
everything conspires againstthis.
I mean, my family health criseshave started and been nonstop.
From the moment we started toto to to to today.
(25:32):
The challenge of the growth hasbeen difficult because now it's
you know, 200 casting crewmembers every way on the set.
And uh while also trying togenerate crowdfunding, while
also trying to, in many ways,make some of this up as we go
along.
Not the story, of course, butthe the how to sustain ourselves
doing this project outside thesystem allows us a lot of
(25:54):
freedom and a lot of ownership,but it's also very difficult
because nothing we don't have astudio or a network behind us
that has billions of dollars attheir disposal that they can
just kind of keep things easmake things easy for us.
So from the fact that we'vekind of created it from scratch
to the fact that uh feels likeeverything is difficult in in
even just my personal life withmy family, that's been a
(26:16):
challenge when it's alsotremendous summer to ready.
Carla Hinton (26:20):
You just touched on something I wanted to ask
you.
How do other people in theindustry talk to you guys?
Had had they react to you, likeyou've photo what you were
trying to do.
Dallas Jenkins (26:30):
Well, at first there was no reaction, no one
knew who we were, no one cared.
The industry certainly doesdidn't have a hallway for the
kind of thing we were doing.
A a Jesus show, B, Crowdfoot,C, kind of building this
audience from scratch, uh,releasing it.
We again we kind of made up ourown platforms and our own ways
for people to watch it on a freeapp that they could connect to
their television.
Now, of course, the industry isall over it.
(26:54):
I mean, they're they're the youknow, every streamer was
interested in in the show and isalso trying to is interested in
how we did what we did, kind ofbuilding an audience from
scratch, our social mediaengagement strategies.
So now it's been a cool thingbecause because we had several
years of all group to beginwith, we can still maintain that
the studios don't want tochange our the content.
(27:15):
They're like, all right, you'veclearly fit me something out.
We don't want to mess withthat, but we want to put some
gasoline on the fire.
So now that we have arelationship with Prime Video,
Amazon Prime Video, it'sactually really cool because
they let us do what we do bestand then we use them for what
they do best.
But at first, there wasn't theyI I would say they weren't if
they weren't uh rejecting us,they didn't even care.
(27:35):
So they didn't even care enoughto or know enough to even be
mean about it.
It's just they didn't notice.
So we said, all right, we'll doit ourselves.
Carla Hinton (27:42):
Was there any one thing that lets you know that
you on their radar?
Dallas Jenkins (27:46):
Well, in in season two, when the show really
started to hit a tipping pointduring COVID, and we were the
first, we were the only projectin like in in America to be
filming during COVID.
And we kind of invented our ownCOVID protocols.
That's when the industrystarted to go, okay, because all
(28:07):
the all the unions, like theactor unions and stuff like
that, they had the rules aboutit.
So then when when the headlinesand in all the industry
magazines are about to showthis, that's filming, they're
like, oh, what's this show?
And then they discovered, oh mygoodness, it's got tens of
millions of viewers all over theworld.
What's going on here?
And then they said, Oh, wait,why don't you come on our
platform?
And we said, No, we're good,we're doing it ourselves.
So that was when I think it wasaround when COVID hit, was when
(28:29):
things started to reach alittle bit more awareness.
Carla Hinton (28:32):
Okay.
So you come from a family of ofuh people who take the Bible
seriously and who have maybereached out to people through
different avenues like the book,yeah, the left behind series.
How did that influence you ordid it?
Dallas Jenkins (28:47):
Yeah, so I think the concept of taking Bible
stories on Bible, in my dad'scase, was left behind books for
Bible prophecies, and makingthem uh palatable to a modern
audience is clearly somethingthat I've been influenced by.
Yeah.
My dad is not a preacher, I'mnot a preacher, we're not
(29:08):
theologians, but I think we dounderstand storytelling.
And so taking these biblicalconcepts and turning them into
something that the modernaudience can can relate to, and
maybe bringing the words off thepage, making them feel
accessible, is something that Idefinitely was influenced by by
my father.
(29:29):
I think a love of scripture, alove of storytelling, undoed
something obviously differentthan he did, but but I think
it's the same idea as we'rewe're here to tell stories.
And and and we're gonna takethe greatest story ever told and
and remind the world that thisis this is something that's
accessible, that you canactually get it as well.
And that's what we heard frompeople laughing the left behind
(29:51):
books is oh, okay, now Iunderstand the book of
Revelation better.
And people are coming to mesaying, Oh, now I understand the
gospel better.
So I think that's we'recertainly a little bit of like
follower likes on there.
Carla Hinton (30:01):
You talked about North Church, and I know if I'm
not mistaken, I think Mark Greengoes to North Church.
Tell me a little bit about yourrelationship with him, if you
don't mind, because I know Iknow him probably the the the
most.
Dallas Jenkins (30:12):
But first so Mart saw the chosen and it
really tremendously impactedhim.
And he felt led to just help usin some way.
And so he started reaching outto people saying, Do you know
Dallas Jenkins?
I'd like to get a hold of him.
And he was he had the poll, hewas asking a few of his friends,
(30:34):
he said, because he's like, Idon't know him, but I have you
know friends who do.
And literally on the day thathe was asking people, how do I
get to find Dallas Jenkins, hesaw on his phone a little
notification popped up onFacebook, and it was me reaching
out to him because I was wewere looking to build this first
century campus, a first centuryset.
(30:56):
And I I knew that the Greenfamily had done the Museum of
the Bible and had had had, and Ithought I reached out to him
because I thought, uh, would youguys be interested in being
involved in this first centuryset?
Because we could also use it askind of an educational tour.
And Mark goes, well, that's mybrother, that's not me.
But some reason I've been ledto try to find you, and right on
(31:18):
the day that I was looking, youfound me.
And so that yeah, he heard mespeak.
And my wife, my here, my wifeand I speak, and we and he heard
us say, our goal is is to justreveal the Bible.
We're just a TV show, we're notthe Bible.
And something about that reallyspoke to him, and his specialty
is like languages.
He's getting the Bibletranslated into the thousands of
(31:41):
languages.
He thought, I'll just help downtranslate the show into as many
languages as possible.
And and then he got sucked intothe vortex, and now he's that
would be possible.
He and his uh organization arefinancing the whole show.
Carla Hinton (31:53):
I love that.
Okay, okay.
One other thing, you talkedabout listening, being blessed
by being able to do this.
Can you expand just a littlebit more?
Dallas Jenkins (32:00):
Because I came in uh on the TLN to um well to
be tasked with portraying thegreatest story ever told for a
new generation and to be allowedto steward this project that's
in literally every country inthe world is an immense
(32:23):
challenge and it's an immenseresponsibility.
But when you hear from peoplein third world countries who are
telling you that the showchanged their life, where that
you're hearing from there was ascreening for uh 300 orphans in
Madagascar.
It was translated into theirlanguage for the first time, the
first time television had beentranslated in their language.
(32:43):
They never seemed Tellersbefore.
And they're watching theseorphans are watching episode
three of season one of Jesuswith the children.
And some of their comments wereOh my goodness, this is a god
who's like me.
He he brushes his teeth in thestream and he makes his own food
just like these orphans inMadagascar.
It is the greatest thing in inthe world.
(33:03):
I mean, there's nothing morebeautiful than that.
And so the the challenge is, ofcourse, getting it done, but
the blessing is people who tellyou that their lives have been
changed by it in every countryin the world in dozens of
languages.
I'll never do anything in mylife besides my family as as
meaningful as that.
Carla Hinton (33:23):
Thank you so much.
Erik Tryggestad (33:26):
I got a quick question in your mind.
You grew up here in the storyof Jesus' crucifixion, right?
I mean it's very familiar toyou.
Do you have any new insights onit now that you've attempted to
recreate it and film it,something you maybe had to
(33:46):
consider it before?
Dallas Jenkins (33:47):
Yes.
I mean the and and you'll seethat in our movie, which is when
we were looking for ways totell this story in a way that
hadn't been told before, becauseI've seen it, I've seen you
know a dozen crucifixionprojects.
Like, well, what what can wesay that's different but that
(34:07):
still honors the actual storyitself?
And it's when you start toconnect the old testament, when
we start to go back all the wayto the creation, the creation
story and Moses you start torealize that the crucifixion in
many ways both meaningfully andvisually has connections that
(34:33):
have been prepar that have beenleading to the crucifixion for
hundreds and hundreds of years.
I mean, even just you know, thethe blood on the doorpost that
it put to so that the angel ofdeath would pass over their
houses.
I mean two two blood two bloodmarks on the sides and one on
the top, and then you look atthe cross of Christ and you see
(34:54):
there's two blood marks on thesides and one on the top, and
and uh you see that what he'sdoing as a sacrificial lamb is
the same thing that Passoverwas.
And you go, wow, this is astory that's that's was was
thousands of years in themaking.
And so that hasn't beenportrayed on film before.
It's about probably beenpreached about, but it has been
(35:16):
portrayed on film, and so that'ssomething that was really
exciting was to not just tellthe story of the crucifixion,
but to tell the story of allGermanity.
That's awesome.
Erik Tryggestad (35:24):
Above my girls, I got a 17-year-old and a
12-girl.
They loved the show.
First time my 17-year-old sawJesus, she said, Oh, that's the
guy from Dog with a Blog.
Oh my goodness.
Yes, that's a that's a keeping.
The fact that he was able toplay out of that stereotype, I
think, is really for doing theMessiah is really uh credit his
acting.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Yeah, well, you can be uh a French doctor on the dog
with a blog, and you can playthe Messiah of the Universe.
Uh, great story for the dudepaper tonight.
Erik Tryggestad (36:02):
Oh, yeah, I usually so embarrassed when they
tell her ass you can say.
Dallas Jenkins (36:10):
That's one of my favorite things to hear when
you when I hear that12-year-olds are sudden being
while they act the show.
That's not what I was thinkingwhen I made it.
Um but I think there'ssomething about authenticity
that even young kids appreciate,especially now.
And uh my favorite thing tohear.
Erik Tryggestad (36:27):
Good.
Thank you.
BT Irwin (36:34):
Many thanks to Dallas Jenkins for sitting down to
visit with the ChristianChronicles Bobby Ross Jr., and
many thanks to OklahomaChristian University for helping
us get this interview.
In the show notes, we'll post alink to Bobby's story about his
conversation with DallasJenkins, and we'll also post a
link to uh The Chosen in caseyou haven't watched it yet.
You can go check it out.
We hope that something youheard in this episode
(36:56):
encouraged, enlightened, orenriched you in some way.
If it did, thanks be to God.
And please pay it forward.
Subscribe to this podcast andshare it with a friend.
Recommend and review itwherever you listen to your
favorite podcasts.
Your subscription,recommendation, and review help
us reach more people.
Please send your comments,ideas, and suggestions to
podcasts at ChristianChronicle.org.
(37:18):
And don't forget, our ministryto inform and inspire Christians
and congregations around theworld is a nonprofit ministry
that relies on your generosity.
So if you like the show and youwant to keep it going and make
it even better, please make atax-deductible gift to the
Christian Chronicle at ChristianChronicle.org slash donate.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis a production of the
(37:38):
Christian ChronicleIncorporated, informing and
inspiring Church of Christcongregations, members, and
ministries around the worldsince 1943.
The Christian Chronicle'smanaging editor is Calvin
Cockrell, Editor-in-Chief BobbyRoss Jr., President and CEO Eric
Trigestaff.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted,
and edited by B.T.
Irwin and is produced by JamesFlanagan at Podcast Your Voice
(38:02):
Studios in the Motor City,Detroit, Michigan, USA.
Until next time, may grace andpeace be yours in abundance.
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