Christian Chronicle Podcast partner Freed-Hardeman University sponsored this special episode on a crisis that is emerging under our noses: screen addiction.
In this conversation, Freed-Hardeman University president David Shannon shares some of the latest research on how (much more) young people are using devices and how dramatic increases in "screen time" over the last few years correlates to a rise in anxiety, depression and suicide among emerging generations in and out of the church.
Shannon offers insight on how churches, educators, ministers and parents can respond with better awareness and and greater habits and practices. He also shares how Freed-Hardeman University is working to make an environment where its faculty, staff and students are putting healthier screen habits into practice.
Link to The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt (referenced several times in the interview)
Link to the 2024 World Happiness Report (referenced in the interview)
Link to research on the correlation of anxiety, depression and suicide to smart phone and social media use among young people
Learn more about our sponsor for this episode, Freed-Hardeman University
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Holly Linden (00:03):
Welcome to the Christian Chronicle Podcast.
We are bringing you the storyshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
Here is our host, BT.
BT Irwin (00:13):
Irwin, Family and friends, neighbors and, most of
all, strangers.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle Podcast Special
Partner Edition.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
If you're a longtime listenerto the Christian Chronicle
Podcast, you know that FreedHardeman University is one of
(00:33):
our excellent sponsors, whomakes it possible for you to
enjoy the content we put out foryou every week.
Because of that partnership,Freed Hardeman University
reached out to us aboutsponsoring a special episode
that focuses on something that Ireckon must be on the minds of
a lot of parents, grandparents,children's ministers and youth
(00:54):
ministers, and that is excessivescreen time and social media
addiction.
I know that's top of mind forme these days.
I know that's top of mind forme these days.
I have a 12-year-old son who'sin his first year of middle
school, and while my wife and Ihave thus far kept him from
being on social media or havinga phone, we feel like two
volunteers trying to hold back ahorde of five-year-olds surging
the cookie table at VacationBible School.
(01:16):
So is this a paid program?
Yes, but I can tell you, as aparent, that I am looking
forward to taking notes oneverything our guest has to say
about screen time and socialmedia today.
We'll get to that in a minute,but first a word about our
sponsor for this episode.
Freed Hardeman University inHenderson, Tennessee, is a
private institution of highereducation with deep roots and
(01:38):
strong ties in the Church ofChrist.
It's been providing a Christianhigher education for over 150
years Now.
My mom went there back when itwas a two-year school, but today
Freed Hardeman enrolls morethan 1,800 undergraduate and
more than 400 graduate studentsin programs like arts and
humanities, behavioral sciences,biblical studies, biological,
(01:59):
physical and human sciences,business, communication and
literature, creative andcommunication, arts education,
communication and literature,creative and communication arts
education, history, philosophyand political studies,
mathematics, engineering andcomputer science, nursing and a
whole slate of pre-professionalprograms.
The foundation, of course, forevery student who matriculates
at Freed Hardeman is requiredclasses in Bible, along with
(02:22):
Daily Chapel, keeping God at thecenter of campus culture and
scholarship.
We're so pleased to have FreedHardeman University as our
partner and sponsor.
We're so pleased to have FreedHardeman University's president,
David Shannon, with us today.
David spent decades as a Churchof Christ congregational
minister before accepting thecall to preside at his alma
(02:42):
mater in 2017.
David, thank you for makingthis episode possible and for
the work you're doing to addressthe potential harm of screen
time and social media abuseamong the emerging generations.
Thank you for being here.
David Shannon (02:56):
Oh, you're welcome.
It's an honor to be with you,bt.
I appreciate so much what youdo with Christian Chronicle and
especially with this podcast.
It's such a good opportunityfor us to talk with people all
around the United States and theworld about things that are
important, so thank you forhaving us today.
BT Irwin (03:13):
It's a pleasure, All right.
Well, let's get to it.
You were a senior minister witha rather large congregation for
many years and then you becamepresident of Freed Hardeman
University almost eight yearsago and, having worked in both
congregational ministry andcollege administration myself, I
reckon you have a millionthings to which you could devote
your energy and focus and time,and here you are prioritizing
(03:34):
screen time and social media.
I mean you must be reallyconcerned about those things to
put them near the top of yourlist.
I understand you recently evendevoted four days of chapel
talks at Freed Hardeman topresenting on this topic.
Why does a college presidentand minister at heart think we
need to talk about this, evenenough to sponsor a whole
(03:55):
podcast episode about it?
David Shannon (03:58):
You know, that's a good question, and I guess
it's a question I could even askmyself.
And so, as I think about whydid I do this, I guess it would
go back to 2017.
And I can't tell you a point intime, but it's when I began to
notice articles popping up aboutthe sharp increase in teenage
anxiety, depression and suicidalfactors suicidal factors and at
(04:27):
that point there was a lot oftalk going on of is there a
correlation with screen time andsocial media use?
That goes along with this.
And so, from time to time, Iwould just read those articles
and if I saw one pop up insomething, I would at least
heavily scan it.
It just began to be an interestto me because I've always loved
young people scan it.
It just began to be an interestto me because I've always loved
young people and now, being,since 2017, on a college campus,
(04:49):
I'm very mindful, of course, ofthe well-being of our young
people.
And so then, what I startednoticing in around and again,
don't hold me to these dates,but around 2022, 2023, I began
noticing that there was eventalk of causation, and that's
when it really piqued myinterest, or maybe I should say
(05:11):
it heightened my interest evenmore.
And then it was this year whenthe World Happiness Report came
out in 2024.
And for the first time you knowthat's where it measures in 150
countries.
The UN works with this and Ibelieve it's Barna Group that
(05:31):
works with this and every otheryear they measure the happiness
and well-being of people inthese 150 nations, and this was
the first time that the UnitedStates of America fell out of
the top 20.
BT Irwin (05:47):
Wow.
David Shannon (05:48):
Now let that sink in.
And then it was the first timethat if you measured the
happiness and well-being ofAmericans based only on our
youth, we would rank number 62in the nation, I mean in the
world of the 150.
(06:10):
And that really broke my heart.
We became kind of like anomalywhere now older people are
happier in America than youngerpeople and that's just not true
in most places around the worldand it hadn't been true in the
past for America.
And so things like that beginto cause me to think.
(06:32):
We really need to be findingout.
Is it really causation?
And if it is, let's be talkingabout this.
You know I never want to be, andyou mentioned me being a
preacher at heart, and I am.
You know I love where I am andwhat I'm doing now.
I mean over and over I do, but Iwill always be a preacher at
(06:53):
heart because of my passion forpreaching, and so in preaching I
always believed that theeffective preaching of God's
truth could make a difference inpeople's lives.
I believed that every time Igot in the pulpit, and so I
wanted to always address thingsthat were relevant to the 21st
century, where they live today.
And so you know, if I were inpulpits you know I'm thinking
(07:13):
especially a local work rightnow yeah, I would spend probably
a two or three week series onthis.
I might even spend four Sundaysnights on it, or, you know,
four Wednesday night lessons orsomething.
And I don't want us to go to anextreme.
I'm not saying let's say allscreen time is bad.
I'm not saying let's say allsocial media is bad, but I am
(07:35):
saying I do believe BT, it'stime for us to at least bring
awareness to what we know atthis point and help people be
educated so that they can makeright decisions for themselves
and for their families.
BT Irwin (07:49):
You brought up the word causation a moment ago.
You noticed that word for thefirst time in 2022.
And by that you mean that someof the research you're seeing is
starting to link, possibly linkscreen time and social media
use as a potential cause foranxiety, depression and suicide
(08:10):
among younger people.
David Shannon (08:13):
Yes, it does seem to be the causation linked to
the increase.
Yes, by no means, of course,anyone would say it's the cause
of all.
BT Irwin (08:23):
So how much time are young people spending on their
screens?
David Shannon (08:29):
You know, I continually see various studies
and it continues to increaseagain, just year by year.
It wasn't that long ago we weretalking about six to seven
hours a day that most would andthen, like last year, more
reports seem to be saying seven,and up to eight.
One came out and, by the way,the Anxious Generation by
(08:51):
Jonathan Haidt is an amazingread.
It's one that I would suggest,and strongly.
It's one that when I began tothink I want to learn more about
this, I want to see what thereis to this.
That was a read that was veryhelpful, and he has posted
recently an update and he saysit's over nine hours now.
(09:17):
And so when I talk with you,know, and I think all ages need
to be talking about this so fromtime to time in this, when I
say talk to young people, wecould just as easily say let's
talk to adults about this aswell.
But when I talk with the collegeage about this, I said let's
try to imagine if you'respending eight hours a day,
(09:39):
seven days a week, that's athird of a day, even counting
the time you sleep, and so inessence, that's saying at the
beginning of every year and now,by the way, he's up to nine
hours a day is what's being said.
So that would be like let's saythat 24 hours a day of January,
february, march and April, 24hours a day you stayed on a
(10:00):
screen and then nine hours a daywould mean sometime in May you
would put the screen down andsay now I want to sleep and now
I want to enter, act and engagein life outside of a screen.
And you've already spent overfour months.
And you know, when you startbreaking that down, like someone
age 75, that would be on thiskind of pathway throughout their
(10:23):
life.
And I know we could argue thatusually the screen time goes
down a little bit, at least whenyou're adult.
But still, I'm just saying,based off that, it would be like
saying to a 75-year-old hey,spend the first 25 hours, the
first 25 years of your life, dayand night, on a screen and it
just you know.
When you start putting it intoillustrations like that, it's
(10:45):
mind boggling.
BT Irwin (10:47):
Maybe you can break it down a little more for us.
When we talk about screen timeand maybe we should we should
definitely define what we meanby that, and you seem to be
drawing some research fromJonathan Haidt's book the
Anxious Generation.
When we're talking about screentime, are we talking about all
screens, Like you're on acomputer for school, you're
watching TV, you're on yourphone, you're on social media,
(11:09):
you're on a tablet?
What does screen time mean tothis anxious generation?
David Shannon (11:16):
Yes, most are measuring it.
Just as you said, it's allscreen time.
Now what can be the greaterconcern is how much of that
screen time is social media.
Somewhere around the four hourmark a day is where you start to
see a pretty good increase inyoung people that are
(11:38):
registering higher anxiety,depression etc.
And I'm not saying that tosuggest to anyone that, hey, up
to four hours is perfectly fine.
I'm just saying what thestudies have been saying is that
when you cross over about fourhours of social media day it
tends to have an effect onanxiety and depression, then
(11:58):
eventually possible suicidalthoughts.
BT Irwin (12:01):
We're talking about?
We've used things like fourhours to nine hours of screen
time per day, and a lot of thatis social media screen time, and
that seems to have all thehallmarks of an addiction.
Right?
An addiction is when you foregorelationships with real people
and doing your job and takingcare of your business outside
(12:22):
the home because you are using asubstance, for example, four to
nine hours a day.
That sounds like an addiction.
Are we talking about addictivebehavior here?
David Shannon (12:32):
Yes, definitely there are young people and there
are adults that are addicted totheir screens.
They'll reach over and pick uptheir say phone and not even
realize that they've picked itup their say phone and not even
realize that they've picked itup and even maybe begin to
scroll whatever social media appthat they keep open.
Other addictive behavior couldeven fall into our lives through
(12:59):
notifications, and it'sinteresting how maybe we haven't
thought about it that way.
Holly Linden (13:09):
But you know again today.
David Shannon (13:10):
A lot of things I'm saying.
I'm just asking us to givethought to this, and so let me
throw out a few things.
That's just more in the detailsof social media, but then also
screen time in general, as itrelates more to young men.
(13:31):
You know, young men are morelikely to be addicted to gaming
and young men are more likelyaddicted to pornography.
That doesn't mean that youngwomen are not addicted to either
of those.
They are.
Some are.
They are, some are, and, on theother hand, there are young men
(14:13):
that would have an addiction ofsocial media.
Platforms are designed based onan addictive behavior, appeal,
and you know, like when I say toyou bottomless scrolling, that
is by design.
And then when we look at thevery option of a like button or
(14:37):
Instagram, a heart emoji, whatthose are doing is that's
creating the immediateinteraction that that causes us
to crave.
Hey, what else could I say ordo?
or post or take a picture ofthat would increase that.
And so let so let me give youand this is out of the anxious
(15:01):
generation book Let me give youan idea.
I'd like for you to think of agrid of four squares and we're
going to circle that grid, andwhen we think about addictive, I
want you to think that we'regoing through our day and we
receive a notification and we'rein the middle of doing
something, and if we're acollege student, we may be in
(15:22):
the middle of studying for class, or we may be an adult that's
in the middle of work, we mighteven be in the middle of church,
and so a notification has goneoff, and so we have to make a
decision Are we going to exitand are we going to go onto that
ramp?
And if we do take that off ramp,what we have done is we have
(15:49):
reacted to a trigger, and that'sthat first addictive language.
Oh, there was a trigger thatpulled me in.
And then we have the option oh,I received that notification.
Am I, am I going to take action?
Am I going to, am I going torespond?
Go ahead and open that app up,and for most young people that's
(16:09):
already open.
I shouldn't say most, but butfor many young people, they keep
their social media apps openall the time.
Holly Linden (16:15):
Many young people.
David Shannon (16:16):
They keep their social media apps open all the
time.
And so that's why when, likeeven in the surveys, when you
ask many young people like youknow, how often are you on
social media, a very frequentresponse is constantly and they
really mean that.
They mean, like, I keep it openand I take notifications all
(16:36):
the time, and so I just have toswing my phone up and I'm taking
action on it.
And so that action, what it'sgoing to do, it's going to lead
us to the opportunity of avariable ratio.
And what that variable rewardratio is, we would know it best
by, like science experimentswhere you put a rat in a little
container and the rat can pushthe bar and receive food.
(16:59):
Well, that doesn't release, uh,very much of excitement.
The neurons are not, uh,released, if you will, and and
so, um, because if it, if yougot the food every time it
pushed the button, you know,think about the slot machine for
(17:19):
gamblers, if you want to reallyget the most reward within that
little rat.
The ratio is about 1 to 10.
So let him push the bar about10 times and then randomly let
there be a response, not alwayson the 10th time just randomly
(17:40):
about one out of 10 times.
Let there be a positive response.
We'll see.
That's the reward.
Wow, that's cool.
I posted that I just got anotification.
Look at these people thatresponded Okay, I got that
notification and oh, I can'tbelieve.
No more than that's responded.
But what we are wanting is thisrelease that brings us
(18:03):
excitement.
So if we don't receive it, thenof course it's a bottomless
scroll.
Let me scroll on down.
Maybe there's other things thatwill bring that release of
excitement, if you will.
And then imagine, maybe I don'tget it from that platform.
So before I leave, I go aheadand maybe let's go over to
(18:25):
TikTok, because there arecertain videos and just TikToks
that I love to watch and myplatform knows me and it knows
the ones to feed me that I willcontinually scroll, and so it
feeds me the ones until I getthat release.
Ha, that was a great one.
That's why I watch this.
And so what happens is when wego over to kind of like the
(18:49):
fourth area.
So that's the gift.
But the fourth area is like aninvestment, and see, here's
where the animals in us weredifferent.
Animals can't make aninvestment of like a future
investment.
But see, that's when we havethe opportunity to say, well, if
that post did that well, let mepost again.
(19:10):
Or if that comment received somuch response, let me go and
make another investment and I'mgoing to make another comment on
this other post and see if Ican get responses to it too.
And so let's just say, at thatpoint I'm studying for a class.
I didn't even mean to beinterrupted, remember, it was
(19:33):
that interruption that I had ofa notification that brought me
in here to begin with, and I wasonly going to look for a second
.
But now I've actually evenreposted again and I've spent 30
minutes that I didn't evenrealize I was spending.
And so here's what's crazy Ilay my phone down to go back to
my study 30 minutes later andwithin four minutes five minutes
(19:56):
now I have an internalnotification that's saying I
wonder if anybody's respondedyet to what I responded to.
And so it's so easy to go backagain and pick it up and look
again.
Now I know that we could say apart of that is just behavior,
(20:17):
but there comes a time wherethat normal behavior crosses
over into addictive behavior.
Holly Linden (20:23):
Yeah.
David Shannon (20:24):
And I'm not an expert on that.
I'm not ready to say when thathappens, but it probably is
happening far more often withall ages of people than what we
would like to admit, all ages ofpeople than what we would like
to admit.
And like, I sat behind threegirls in church the other night
and they're awesome young ladies, I couldn't say enough good
(20:44):
about them Immediately at theend of service, when a man got
up to make announcements, I justnoticed that one of the girls
picked up her phone the app wasalready open and immediately
just began scrolling.
And then, immediately at theclose of those announcements,
(21:06):
she immediately laid it backdown and whatever song or prayer
was next, that's what sheparticipated in.
I'm just saying that to say Iwonder if you ask that young
lady hey, did you pick up yourphone during worship tonight?
I wouldn't be surprised if shesaid no.
No, it was probably more of ahabit that hey, pick it up,
(21:31):
scroll like an addictivebehavior that well, if there's
ever an idle moment, I guess Ijust do that.
I don't realize I do that.
BT Irwin (21:42):
Yeah, I knew I had a problem when Twitter was new and
I put the Twitter app on myphone.
I didn't realize I had aproblem until one day I was
sitting at a traffic light and Isuddenly realized I was
scrolling through Twitter whileI was sitting at the traffic
light and, um, and I thoughtthis is dangerous, like I'm
(22:04):
putting my life at risk, I'mputting other people's lives at
risk, and uh, so I deleted theapp off my phone.
I got rid of it after that andI haven't missed it at all.
So I want to, I want to ask youa little more about this, okay,
so, uh, obviously it's not agood thing and and I don't know
how much you know about this oryou have any research in this
(22:24):
particular area I was told oncethat when you're working on
something like study right,you're, you're studying for a
test, or you're working on aproject for school, or you're um
, or you're in church, forexample, that whenever something
to stretch takes your attentionaway from that thing you're
doing, uh, even for just acouple of minutes, it takes 20
(22:45):
minutes to get your brain likeshifted back into study mode or
church mode or something likethat.
So it seems to me that thoseconstant interruptions, um, it's
it's obvious that those are notgood for being present with the
people who are there with you,or the thing that you're trying
to do worship, work on a project.
I want to ask you, though is itjust the interruption of our
(23:10):
attention and the amount of timethat we're spending on screens
that's bad for us, or is it thecontent that we're consuming and
what we're doing there that'scausing the greater harm?
David Shannon (23:19):
You know, bt.
I'm glad that you asked that inthat specific way, because
today I am not spending a lot oftime on the content and that
should definitely be a concernthat individuals would ask
themselves.
And it should be a concern thatindividuals would ask
themselves and it should be aconcern that parents would have
for their child.
(23:40):
They should want to know whatcontent is your child consuming.
Spouses ought to be concernedabout what content your spouse
and I know there's there'sdifferent thoughts on that you
know my wife and I.
We have a relationship where wesay feel free at any time to
pick up each other's phone andit is the way that we're saying.
(24:03):
I want you to trust me.
But it's also that beauty ofaccountability that we need to
be careful with what we'reconsuming.
But today, I guess more on mymind in this conversation, and
not that it's more importantthan that, but it's just the
other side of addictive behaviorthat is literally built into
(24:24):
the algorithms.
There are engineers gettingpaid to continue to develop this
, and so when we offer to ourchildren, we offer to a 12 or a
13-year-old lady, a socialplatform, a social media
platform, we need to realize, asparents, we are offering them
something that everybody behindthat has designed it to be
(24:48):
addictive because that's howthey make the most money.
And and so you know that thatawareness is so important.
And and so you know that thatawareness is so important.
And if I could go back and makea comment of what we're talking
about previously and youtalking about being at the red
light and thinking, whoa, thisis.
You know, I had a similar storytold me, you know, back to the
(25:10):
notifications A heavy userreceives.
Now are you ready for this One,one notification?
BT Irwin (25:19):
a minute all through the whole day.
David Shannon (25:20):
My goodness.
So imagine you're involved atwork and again people will say,
oh, but I received thosenotifications, but I don't even
look at my phone.
But your mind has beeninterrupted and you've been
forced for a moment to think.
I wonder what that notificationis, I wonder which app it is, I
wonder which news feed it is, Iwonder fear of missing out.
(25:44):
I wonder if I'm missing out ifI don't pick it up right now.
And so, even if you don't pickup your phone at that point, you
still have had that attentionfragmentation.
That is not healthy for ourmental well-being.
When it's once every minutethroughout our waking hours.
And, by the way, for others yousay, well, I'm glad I'm not a
(26:08):
heavy user, but for many thatare receiving notifications it's
once every five minutes.
Holly Linden (26:13):
Wow.
David Shannon (26:14):
So imagine, six times an hour, six times an hour
, you're being interrupted likeon average, like clockwork here,
and we need to be concernedabout what uh that does for us.
And um, I tell you about uh, auh research project that was
(26:34):
done on this and what they didwas they brought students into a
room and they would test themwith math problems and to it's
cognitive thinking and all tomemorize letters in a certain
order.
And they would have them attimes to bring in to the lab
(26:54):
themselves without theirbackpack and say leave your
phone in your backpack and leaveit outside the room.
They're going to participate.
Other times they would havethem to come in and bring their
phone and say keep it in yourbackpack on the floor by your
lab table.
Then other times they would sayyou can have your phone out.
Just, you know, don't use it,but you can have it out on the
(27:19):
table.
And you know I could ask youwhich ones do you think scored
the best?
And on those tests, the timesthat the phone was outside the
room was the high scores.
The second high scores was whenit was in the bag.
The third the lowest scores waswhen it was in the bag, the
third the lowest scores was whenthey was on the table, and in
(27:40):
all three of those the phone wasnever utilized.
Holly Linden (27:43):
Yeah.
David Shannon (27:44):
Wow, and so the the attention deficit that
literally being present createsit just can't be ignored
literally being present creates.
BT Irwin (27:58):
It just can't be ignored.
Okay, so you made your case.
The parents who are listeningto this in the car with their
kids have probably alreadyreached into the backseat and
snatched their kids' phones andthrown them out the window.
What do we do?
Maybe you could talk about whatwe might do on a family level
about this potential foraddiction, this problem that
we're talking about, and thenperhaps you could talk about
(28:20):
what we might do on a societylevel.
David Shannon (28:23):
Okay, you know, I think what would be real
important for families to do isto begin talking about it openly
.
And, if you want to call it aself-evaluation, a family
evaluation, how are we utilizingscreens, how are we utilizing
(28:44):
social media?
And what is really good is if afamily can get a few of their
families that they're friendswith, that have children about
the same age, if they can dothis together.
That's why I think this wouldbe a great Sunday afternoon
workshop, ongoing for like fourweeks, at a church family where
(29:05):
you say, hey, all of you thathave, you know, maybe it's
junior high students orelementary students, or you know
, let's, let's talk about this,let's, let's read this book
together, let's bring in someguest speakers, but then let's
continue meeting over the nextfew Sundays and let's talk about
things that we could do as agroup so that we're in this
(29:26):
together and that would help somuch with the positive
reinforcement of peers, whetherit's parents to parents or if
it's child to child, thatthere's others involved in it.
But bottom line is that thisevaluation, it needs to be
things as simple as adults andthe children.
(29:49):
What's your goal with this app?
And we need to be real honest,you know.
Now back to content.
Right, is your goal with thisapp?
To see inappropriate content?
Well, we're not going to havethat app on our phone.
Holly Linden (30:01):
It's that simple.
David Shannon (30:02):
You know, or if your goal is you want to keep up
with a few of your best friends, okay, how can we best fulfill
that goal and then not becomeendless scrolling or endless
chatting, or whatever the app orplatform may be?
But it should be very importantto identify why we want the app,
(30:24):
how should it be used, and thencreate boundaries around that.
And you know, that's the thingfor any of us.
If we're going to have ahealthy life, we have to have
boundaries, we have to be ableto practice restraint in life,
we have to have boundaries, wehave to be able to practice
restraint in life, or we don'tget to enjoy the blessing of a
healthy life.
Well, it's the same way for ourchildren, it's the same way for
our families, and so I want tomention a few things.
(30:47):
But again, I do not want anyoneto hear me say, well, it has to
be this way, but there ought tobe boundaries within the home.
Okay, you're going to walk inwith your phone in the evening
and we all have our phones atthe house, but what time is time
?
That is phone free.
(31:08):
It's a zone that, hey, ourdinner table.
We don't even bring our phonesto the table Like would that be
a good call, or is there acertain time at night, hey,
everybody, it's name a time 7o'clock, it's 8 o'clock, it's 9
o'clock.
Whatever time it is, everybodyput your phones in the basket
and maybe the basket stays inthe kitchen and everybody goes
(31:29):
to bed.
What a difference it would makeif families had those clear,
healthy boundaries and old andyoung in the family observed
them.
You know, when I met withcollege students and we talked
about things that that we coulddo as individuals in a campus
community, we just pulled upsome sites.
(31:54):
You know Googled what aresolutions to overcome excessive
screen time or social mediaaddiction, and you know you go
to various sites and a lot ofthem will quickly throw out six
or seven or eight things, andI'll mention just a few here.
One was to turn offnotifications, which, by the way
, I was meeting with a staffmember the other day and you
(32:15):
know this chapel had been like amonth or so ago and out of the
blue he brought it up.
I noticed he pointed to a barewrist and he said you know,
after that awareness about theimpact of notifications, I
decided to stop wearing my smartwatch.
I decided to stop wearing mysmart watch and he said I am
(32:37):
really surprised at the effectthat it's had on me to not be
interrupted all the time withnotifications, but turn off
notifications, create tech-freezones, set time limits, track
time.
You know it's on your phone,how many hours you spend a day
(32:59):
on your phone and so everybodycould quickly look and see
everybody in their family, howmuch time that is.
I mentioned curate your socialmedias.
You know why are you using them.
If they're making you feel bad,why are you continuing to use
them?
I've mentioned intentionalgoals.
Take breaks.
Maybe there's times in a daywhere, like I've said to the
students, while we'rebrainstorming, I said what if,
(33:20):
after chapel, until like yourone or two o'clock class?
You said I just I don't getjust for me without
interruptions, whatever it maybe.
Have a mindset that says I willaccomplish tasks that are
important before I go and spendother time on the screen.
(33:44):
Others is digital detox.
A student walked up to me andsaid hey, two weeks cold turkey.
And I said really?
I said I said how's it going?
And the student said I wasstudying last night and he said
I only studied two hours.
And then he put a big grin onhis face and he said you won't
(34:04):
believe, I promise you.
He said this with a serious butbig grin.
He said you won't believe howmuch studying you can get done
when it's two hours ofuninterrupted study.
He said what an experience.
And I say that to say do yourealize?
Most of our high school andcollege students today have
never experienced that, or atleast they haven't.
(34:24):
They don't experience itregularly and they have
experienced it very few times intheir life because they just
haven't set that discipline thatsays, hey, I'm going to study
at seven o'clock, I want to godo something at nine o'clock
tonight, and so, to get the mostout of this, for the next two
hours I'm going to be completelyphone free.
Right now, I'm leaving it inthe bathroom and I'm going to go
(34:45):
in my room and study here.
What a difference it would makeif students could do that.
Charging our phones outside ofour bedrooms, never using our
phone in bed those are thingsthat are so important.
It's proven there's a lotbehind the effect on our sleep.
2011 to 12, when all of theincrease in smartphones, of
(35:09):
course, then having continualaccess to the Internet, which
then gave continual access toapps Our children's sleep began
to dip under seven hours.
It has a big effect.
And then something as simple asthis, engaging alternative
activities, figuring out whatcan we put in the place of those
(35:31):
times?
Hey, since we're not going touse our phones and be on our
phones at that time, or screensat that time, what's something
great we can do?
I remember one young lady.
She spoke up and she said, whenI first made that shift where I
said these are certain times ofthe day where I will not be on
my phone, she said I starteddoing other activities to fill
(35:52):
the time.
And she said, within about amonth I started to enjoy those
other activities far more than Iever enjoyed my phone.
But it took me a while to shiftmy mind.
You know what Hyatt would say inthe book the Anxious Generation
?
He says we have a group ofchildren today that instead of
growing up with play-basedexperiences, they have grown up
(36:13):
with phone-based experiences,and so we have to help them
retrain their mind to hey, yeah,the phone has helped wire your
mind a certain way, but giveenough time to allow yourself to
be wired to face-to-faceinteractions and external
(36:34):
interactions in our life andexternal interactions in our
life, and in that we should beable to also concentrate on
stronger social connections withpeople.
But if I can mention fourthings that's going to be
affected anytime we don'tmonitor these things and we go
into unhealthy cycles.
It's going to affect sociallife.
(36:56):
Students, children, are notgoing to develop as they should,
being able to look people inthe eye and interact.
If there is excessive screentimes.
It's going to affect theirsleep.
It's going to affect how muchsleep they get, it's going to
affect how long it takes them togo to sleep and it's going to
affect how long theiruninterrupted sleep can be.
(37:20):
And there's a lot, there'sstudies behind all that.
That's just sobering.
And then also we've talked aboutthrough notifications, it's
attention fragmentation.
Our children and adults, we arenot wired to live a healthy
life, trying to focus on thingsand have continual interruptions
.
It is unhealthy for us.
(37:41):
And then eventually the fourththing in this list here that
comes from the book and that iseventually it moves to addictive
behavior.
And it's just sad to think howmany of our children are
suffering with an addiction at ayoung age, while their parents
have been adamant saying I'm notgoing to let you get in a car
(38:02):
with a stranger, I'm not goingto let you walk around the
neighborhood alone.
It's just too dangerous.
And so we've been maybe evenoverly protective with our
children in the real world andwe have been so underprotective
with our children in the digitalworld.
(38:22):
And what Hyatt would argue inhis book and what I would just
say it's definitely worth a readand it's worth a thought is are
we balancing these?
the way they should be.
It's very concerning.
BT Irwin (38:41):
I just want to add my own personal testimony to this.
I was in the ER about six weeksago with extremely high blood
pressure and there were severalcauses of that Just sedentary
lifestyle, not eating well, uh,anxiety, stress, things like
that One of the changes I madeI've made a lot of changes to my
(39:02):
life since then.
One of the changes I made wasthat I turned off news
notifications on my phone and Ihave to tell you I have not
missed them and I feel like my.
I feel like the world hasgotten lighter and the air has
gotten pure and I am notconstantly ruminating and
worrying about the news.
Just just from that one thing,and I would not go back to
(39:25):
having news notifications turnedon my phone.
You, uh, you said something aminute ago.
I I don't know if you'reprepared to answer this, but it
gave me an idea.
One of the hardest things abouthaving a 12 year old is that
all of his friends at schoolhave phones and he does not.
We don't let our son have aphone.
He's not on social media andthe peer pressure is intense,
(39:49):
right, and it's getting moreintense as he gets older.
You said something about acongregation, maybe, maybe doing
a couple of workshops or it'salmost like you need to have a
group of people.
You said talk to parents, youknow, and try to form a group of
people that it seems like makekind of a commitment to one
another about phone use orscreen use and what they're
(40:11):
going to do when they're onthere, and that that would be a
positive kind of peer pressure.
Are you aware of any, anyresources that are available to
congregations or to parents thatwant to do something like this?
David Shannon (40:25):
You know, I'm not aware of it.
And that brings us back, bt, toone of the first questions you
asked when you said why is thison my heart?
You can tell just by hearing metoday.
I'm not an expert by any meanson this topic, but I am very
concerned about it and my goalin you know my position of life,
(40:48):
just as a person, one person inlife with the other
responsibilities I have my goalis to raise awareness.
You know, I hope somebody, Ihope there's many people hearing
this today.
That's like.
You know.
I have some extra time.
I'm taking this on.
I'm going to write that book BTis talking about.
That's a great workbook forchurch families to get together
(41:08):
and study through.
I'm going to do more researchon this and I'm going to become
that local speaker that goesaround and I'm just going to
make sure that people know whatthe facts are.
Again, I'm not asking hey,let's stir up some kind of
extremism here.
I believe that the internet isgoing to be around.
I believe smartphones are goingto be around.
(41:30):
I don't believe that to be afaithful Christian, you have to
avoid those.
I don't believe for ourchildren to be faithful
Christians and to developproperly, they have to avoid
those altogether.
Properly, they have to avoidthose altogether.
But I do believe it's going totake a lot of intention, and we
can't be intentional in arighteous way unless we know the
facts, and so we need a lotmore people that are speaking up
(41:55):
and helping us learn what iswhat and what should be the
result of what we do now know.
BT Irwin (42:06):
Well, I want to close with a question specific to the
work you're doing at FreedHardeman University.
Young people are your bread andbutter, so the very generations
that are dealing with theproblems we discussed today,
dealing with them in the mostacute manner, are the ones that
are enrolling at your university, as you said.
So, on one hand, freed Hardemanhas a social media presence.
(42:27):
You offer a lot of classesonline and thus on screen, so
you're clearly not anti-screenor anti-social media.
We're recording this on theinternet for something that
people are going to listen to ontheir phones.
How do you design and sustainan environment at Freed Hardeman
where your students have abetter chance of avoiding the
worst of social media or screentime addiction?
David Shannon (42:50):
You know, with a residential college campus, our
responsibility is not to be theparent to the students, but I do
like to think that we are areally good supportive bridge,
as children are leaving home forthe first time and when they
leave us they're going to go outinto the world as a young adult
(43:13):
, professional young adult.
And so, while they're here, howcan we be supportive and how
can we give a healthyenvironment in which for them to
live?
And, as I mentioned to youbefore, I don't think the answer
to is avoid modern technology,but the answer is to give
(43:35):
awareness to what is happening,expect them to be wise enough to
make good decisions, but then,even when they're not making
good decisions, at least then,when they reach the point that
says I'm sick of this, they know.
What a better response is.
And the reason I say it that way, bt, is I really do believe
(43:57):
that many are dealing with thisas an addiction, and you know,
we've all heard and then we'veexperienced, whether it's in our
own lives or helping others.
You can't really help an addictuntil an addict wants to be
helped, and so I do believe thatjust continual awareness.
Now, what I've said to theyoung people here is that the
(44:18):
good news is you probably won'traise your children in the same
way your parents raised you, andthen I tried to throw out a
little bit of grace to theirparents, because their parents
did not know the things that weknow today.
Like when you go back to 2011and 12, and I really just
started here today but when youlook at the graphs, that's when
(44:40):
the hockey stick goes up.
That's when so many in Americahad access to a phone, which
gave them the Internet becamemobile.
Now it's not just at my desktopat home, now I can take it with
me everywhere I go, and so nowit's not just that I go on
social media before I leaveschool and when I get back home
(45:02):
from school.
Now I take social media with meand receive the notifications
every minute or two.
And so what I'm saying is thatstarted happening 2011 and 12.
And I'm doing my hand like this,the hockey stick because then,
when you see the sharp increasesthat sometime go up as much as
400%.
(45:22):
Because then, when you see thesharp increases that sometimes
go up as much as 400 percent,when you see the sharp increases
of depression, of anxiety, ofsuicidal thoughts, spending less
time with my friends in personwe could go on and on those all
go back to that point in timewhere you say what changed in
America at that time, and I knoweven around other parts of the
(45:44):
world, and that was a change.
So and I know this is too latein this to bring this up, so
I'll just throw it out.
For that person that wants todo more study, okay, go back and
study how long it took for thetobacco industry to be held
accountable, and then how theawareness began to come out, and
(46:04):
then how, eventually, there waslike a communal responsibility
If you're a good parent, youdon't let your 14 year old smoke
cigarettes.
Well, it took us a while to getthere.
Holly Linden (46:15):
Yes.
David Shannon (46:16):
OK.
And so what I'm saying is weare already seeing the pressure,
through potential litigation,for social media platforms to
take more responsibility, andwe're going to see parents
taking much more responsibilityin the next decade.
I know I'm speaking like in aprophetic sense, but I believe
it with all my heart.
(46:36):
Ok, where the dangers are justtoo great, you can't argue
against it.
And so what I'm trying to sayto students today is you're in
like this tough generation timewhere your parents really didn't
know better, and the thing is,when you raise your child, you
will know better.
And so what I'm saying to thisgeneration here guys, you got to
(46:58):
help yourself, and the reasonI'm saying it that way is take
the time to learn what'shappening and be aware of it and
be honest with yourself.
And then you know, holdyourself accountable by letting
other people hold yourselfaccountable.
A guy spoke up in front of abreakout group of about 200
students he's sitting on theback row and he wasn't the type
(47:20):
of guy you'd expect to speak upand he said I said, guys, what
have you done personally that'smade a difference in your life?
And, man, he raised his handand he said I knew I had to do
something.
So I got my friend to put anapp on my phone and he's the
only one that knows the passwordand I forget the timeframe he
(47:40):
said, but I think he said liketwo hours, and he said after two
hours it shuts down and I can'tget on it again for 24 hours.
And what I'm saying is ourstudents, our young people
across America, they need to bein environments to hear their
peers talk about hey, there's away out, you can find solutions.
(48:03):
But let's talk about it, let'sbe aware, and then let's move
forward in healthy ways.
BT Irwin (48:11):
Sounds like you're cultivating that kind of
environment at Freed HardemanUniversity.
David Shannon is president ofFreed Hardeman University, which
sponsored this special episode.
Why?
Because they believe thissubject is so crucial for our
emerging generations and theolder generations that care for
them.
David, thank you for bringingyour heart and your mind to us
(48:31):
today, and thank you to FreedHardeman University for
sponsoring this special episode.
David Shannon (48:36):
Thank you for the opportunity.
Can I close with one verse?
Holly Linden (48:40):
Yes.
David Shannon (48:41):
Proverbs, the fourth chapter.
He's talking about putting theword of God in the midst of your
heart, and then he saysthere'll be health to all their
flesh.
Guard or keep your heart withall diligence, for out of it
springs the issues of life.
I would say that to all of uspersonally, hear me say that,
(49:02):
talking to yourself, are youguarding what's going into your
heart, because that's what'sgoing to flow out of life?
But then I'm speaking toparents.
What can we do to guard whatgoes into our children's heart,
because that's what's going toflow out of life?
And we've been seeing a lot ofanxiety and depression flowing,
and so let's put something elsein.
And so I say that with liketears a little bit in my eyes,
(49:25):
because I've been a parent and Iknow how hard it is.
I've been a parent and I knowhow hard it is to push against
culture and um.
And so I would just say to usthat we can do this.
Uh, our children deserve for usto step up and be parents.
BT Irwin (49:40):
David, thank you, thank you Once again.
We invite you to check out thisepisode's sponsor, freed
Hardeman University.
It's not only a place where youcan get a first-class education
.
It is a community where yourlife in Christ will form and
mature in ways that willsurprise you.
Go to fhuedu that's fhuedu tostart your exploration of Freed
(50:03):
Hardeman University today.
And if this is the first timeyou've ever listened to one of
our Christian Chronicle podcasts, we invite you to check out our
full catalog atchristianchronicleorg or
wherever you listen to yourfavorite shows.
Until next time, may grace andpeace be yours in abundance.
Holly Linden (50:20):
The Christian Chronicle podcast is a
production of the ChristianChronicle Inc.
Informing and peace be yours inabundance.
Editor-in-chief Bobby Ross Jrand President and CEO Eric
Trigestad.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted
(50:47):
and edited by BT Irwin and isproduced by James Flanagan in
Detroit, michigan, usa.
Welcome to the Christian Chronicle Podcast.
We are bringing you the storyshaping Church of Christ
congregations and members aroundthe world.
Here is our host, BT.
BT Irwin (00:13):
Irwin, Family and friends, neighbors and, most of
all, strangers.
Welcome to the ChristianChronicle Podcast Special
Partner Edition.
May what you are about to hearbless you and honor God.
If you're a longtime listenerto the Christian Chronicle
Podcast, you know that FreedHardeman University is one of
(00:33):
our excellent sponsors, whomakes it possible for you to
enjoy the content we put out foryou every week.
Because of that partnership,Freed Hardeman University
reached out to us aboutsponsoring a special episode
that focuses on something that Ireckon must be on the minds of
a lot of parents, grandparents,children's ministers and youth
(00:54):
ministers, and that is excessivescreen time and social media
addiction.
I know that's top of mind forme these days.
I know that's top of mind forme these days.
I have a 12-year-old son who'sin his first year of middle
school, and while my wife and Ihave thus far kept him from
being on social media or havinga phone, we feel like two
volunteers trying to hold back ahorde of five-year-olds surging
the cookie table at VacationBible School.
(01:16):
So is this a paid program?
Yes, but I can tell you, as aparent, that I am looking
forward to taking notes oneverything our guest has to say
about screen time and socialmedia today.
We'll get to that in a minute,but first a word about our
sponsor for this episode.
Freed Hardeman University inHenderson, Tennessee, is a
private institution of highereducation with deep roots and
(01:38):
strong ties in the Church ofChrist.
It's been providing a Christianhigher education for over 150
years Now.
My mom went there back when itwas a two-year school, but today
Freed Hardeman enrolls morethan 1,800 undergraduate and
more than 400 graduate studentsin programs like arts and
humanities, behavioral sciences,biblical studies, biological,
(01:59):
physical and human sciences,business, communication and
literature, creative andcommunication, arts education,
communication and literature,creative and communication arts
education, history, philosophyand political studies,
mathematics, engineering andcomputer science, nursing and a
whole slate of pre-professionalprograms.
The foundation, of course, forevery student who matriculates
at Freed Hardeman is requiredclasses in Bible, along with
(02:22):
Daily Chapel, keeping God at thecenter of campus culture and
scholarship.
We're so pleased to have FreedHardeman University as our
partner and sponsor.
We're so pleased to have FreedHardeman University's president,
David Shannon, with us today.
David spent decades as a Churchof Christ congregational
minister before accepting thecall to preside at his alma
(02:42):
mater in 2017.
David, thank you for makingthis episode possible and for
the work you're doing to addressthe potential harm of screen
time and social media abuseamong the emerging generations.
Thank you for being here.
David Shannon (02:56):
Oh, you're welcome.
It's an honor to be with you,bt.
I appreciate so much what youdo with Christian Chronicle and
especially with this podcast.
It's such a good opportunityfor us to talk with people all
around the United States and theworld about things that are
important, so thank you forhaving us today.
BT Irwin (03:13):
It's a pleasure, All right.
Well, let's get to it.
You were a senior minister witha rather large congregation for
many years and then you becamepresident of Freed Hardeman
University almost eight yearsago and, having worked in both
congregational ministry andcollege administration myself, I
reckon you have a millionthings to which you could devote
your energy and focus and time,and here you are prioritizing
(03:34):
screen time and social media.
I mean you must be reallyconcerned about those things to
put them near the top of yourlist.
I understand you recently evendevoted four days of chapel
talks at Freed Hardeman topresenting on this topic.
Why does a college presidentand minister at heart think we
need to talk about this, evenenough to sponsor a whole
(03:55):
podcast episode about it?
David Shannon (03:58):
You know, that's a good question, and I guess
it's a question I could even askmyself.
And so, as I think about whydid I do this, I guess it would
go back to 2017.
And I can't tell you a point intime, but it's when I began to
notice articles popping up aboutthe sharp increase in teenage
anxiety, depression and suicidalfactors suicidal factors and at
(04:27):
that point there was a lot oftalk going on of is there a
correlation with screen time andsocial media use?
That goes along with this.
And so, from time to time, Iwould just read those articles
and if I saw one pop up insomething, I would at least
heavily scan it.
It just began to be an interestto me because I've always loved
young people scan it.
It just began to be an interestto me because I've always loved
young people and now, being,since 2017, on a college campus,
(04:49):
I'm very mindful, of course, ofthe well-being of our young
people.
And so then, what I startednoticing in around and again,
don't hold me to these dates,but around 2022, 2023, I began
noticing that there was eventalk of causation, and that's
when it really piqued myinterest, or maybe I should say
(05:11):
it heightened my interest evenmore.
And then it was this year whenthe World Happiness Report came
out in 2024.
And for the first time you knowthat's where it measures in 150
countries.
The UN works with this and Ibelieve it's Barna Group that
(05:31):
works with this and every otheryear they measure the happiness
and well-being of people inthese 150 nations, and this was
the first time that the UnitedStates of America fell out of
the top 20.
BT Irwin (05:47):
Wow.
David Shannon (05:48):
Now let that sink in.
And then it was the first timethat if you measured the
happiness and well-being ofAmericans based only on our
youth, we would rank number 62in the nation, I mean in the
world of the 150.
(06:10):
And that really broke my heart.
We became kind of like anomalywhere now older people are
happier in America than youngerpeople and that's just not true
in most places around the worldand it hadn't been true in the
past for America.
And so things like that beginto cause me to think.
(06:32):
We really need to be findingout.
Is it really causation?
And if it is, let's be talkingabout this.
You know I never want to be, andyou mentioned me being a
preacher at heart, and I am.
You know I love where I am andwhat I'm doing now.
I mean over and over I do, but Iwill always be a preacher at
(06:53):
heart because of my passion forpreaching, and so in preaching I
always believed that theeffective preaching of God's
truth could make a difference inpeople's lives.
I believed that every time Igot in the pulpit, and so I
wanted to always address thingsthat were relevant to the 21st
century, where they live today.
And so you know, if I were inpulpits you know I'm thinking
(07:13):
especially a local work rightnow yeah, I would spend probably
a two or three week series onthis.
I might even spend four Sundaysnights on it, or, you know,
four Wednesday night lessons orsomething.
And I don't want us to go to anextreme.
I'm not saying let's say allscreen time is bad.
I'm not saying let's say allsocial media is bad, but I am
(07:35):
saying I do believe BT, it'stime for us to at least bring
awareness to what we know atthis point and help people be
educated so that they can makeright decisions for themselves
and for their families.
BT Irwin (07:49):
You brought up the word causation a moment ago.
You noticed that word for thefirst time in 2022.
And by that you mean that someof the research you're seeing is
starting to link, possibly linkscreen time and social media
use as a potential cause foranxiety, depression and suicide
(08:10):
among younger people.
David Shannon (08:13):
Yes, it does seem to be the causation linked to
the increase.
Yes, by no means, of course,anyone would say it's the cause
of all.
BT Irwin (08:23):
So how much time are young people spending on their
screens?
David Shannon (08:29):
You know, I continually see various studies
and it continues to increaseagain, just year by year.
It wasn't that long ago we weretalking about six to seven
hours a day that most would andthen, like last year, more
reports seem to be saying seven,and up to eight.
One came out and, by the way,the Anxious Generation by
(08:51):
Jonathan Haidt is an amazingread.
It's one that I would suggest,and strongly.
It's one that when I began tothink I want to learn more about
this, I want to see what thereis to this.
That was a read that was veryhelpful, and he has posted
recently an update and he saysit's over nine hours now.
(09:17):
And so when I talk with you,know, and I think all ages need
to be talking about this so fromtime to time in this, when I
say talk to young people, wecould just as easily say let's
talk to adults about this aswell.
But when I talk with the collegeage about this, I said let's
try to imagine if you'respending eight hours a day,
(09:39):
seven days a week, that's athird of a day, even counting
the time you sleep, and so inessence, that's saying at the
beginning of every year and now,by the way, he's up to nine
hours a day is what's being said.
So that would be like let's saythat 24 hours a day of January,
february, march and April, 24hours a day you stayed on a
(10:00):
screen and then nine hours a daywould mean sometime in May you
would put the screen down andsay now I want to sleep and now
I want to enter, act and engagein life outside of a screen.
And you've already spent overfour months.
And you know, when you startbreaking that down, like someone
age 75, that would be on thiskind of pathway throughout their
(10:23):
life.
And I know we could argue thatusually the screen time goes
down a little bit, at least whenyou're adult.
But still, I'm just saying,based off that, it would be like
saying to a 75-year-old hey,spend the first 25 hours, the
first 25 years of your life, dayand night, on a screen and it
just you know.
When you start putting it intoillustrations like that, it's
(10:45):
mind boggling.
BT Irwin (10:47):
Maybe you can break it down a little more for us.
When we talk about screen timeand maybe we should we should
definitely define what we meanby that, and you seem to be
drawing some research fromJonathan Haidt's book the
Anxious Generation.
When we're talking about screentime, are we talking about all
screens, Like you're on acomputer for school, you're
watching TV, you're on yourphone, you're on social media,
(11:09):
you're on a tablet?
What does screen time mean tothis anxious generation?
David Shannon (11:16):
Yes, most are measuring it.
Just as you said, it's allscreen time.
Now what can be the greaterconcern is how much of that
screen time is social media.
Somewhere around the four hourmark a day is where you start to
see a pretty good increase inyoung people that are
(11:38):
registering higher anxiety,depression etc.
And I'm not saying that tosuggest to anyone that, hey, up
to four hours is perfectly fine.
I'm just saying what thestudies have been saying is that
when you cross over about fourhours of social media day it
tends to have an effect onanxiety and depression, then
(11:58):
eventually possible suicidalthoughts.
BT Irwin (12:01):
We're talking about?
We've used things like fourhours to nine hours of screen
time per day, and a lot of thatis social media screen time, and
that seems to have all thehallmarks of an addiction.
Right?
An addiction is when you foregorelationships with real people
and doing your job and takingcare of your business outside
(12:22):
the home because you are using asubstance, for example, four to
nine hours a day.
That sounds like an addiction.
Are we talking about addictivebehavior here?
David Shannon (12:32):
Yes, definitely there are young people and there
are adults that are addicted totheir screens.
They'll reach over and pick uptheir say phone and not even
realize that they've picked itup their say phone and not even
realize that they've picked itup and even maybe begin to
scroll whatever social media appthat they keep open.
Other addictive behavior couldeven fall into our lives through
(12:59):
notifications, and it'sinteresting how maybe we haven't
thought about it that way.
Holly Linden (13:09):
But you know again today.
David Shannon (13:10):
A lot of things I'm saying.
I'm just asking us to givethought to this, and so let me
throw out a few things.
That's just more in the detailsof social media, but then also
screen time in general, as itrelates more to young men.
(13:31):
You know, young men are morelikely to be addicted to gaming
and young men are more likelyaddicted to pornography.
That doesn't mean that youngwomen are not addicted to either
of those.
They are.
Some are.
They are, some are, and, on theother hand, there are young men
(14:13):
that would have an addiction ofsocial media.
Platforms are designed based onan addictive behavior, appeal,
and you know, like when I say toyou bottomless scrolling, that
is by design.
And then when we look at thevery option of a like button or
(14:37):
Instagram, a heart emoji, whatthose are doing is that's
creating the immediateinteraction that that causes us
to crave.
Hey, what else could I say ordo?
or post or take a picture ofthat would increase that.
And so let so let me give youand this is out of the anxious
(15:01):
generation book Let me give youan idea.
I'd like for you to think of agrid of four squares and we're
going to circle that grid, andwhen we think about addictive, I
want you to think that we'regoing through our day and we
receive a notification and we'rein the middle of doing
something, and if we're acollege student, we may be in
(15:22):
the middle of studying for class, or we may be an adult that's
in the middle of work, we mighteven be in the middle of church,
and so a notification has goneoff, and so we have to make a
decision Are we going to exitand are we going to go onto that
ramp?
And if we do take that off ramp,what we have done is we have
(15:49):
reacted to a trigger, and that'sthat first addictive language.
Oh, there was a trigger thatpulled me in.
And then we have the option oh,I received that notification.
Am I, am I going to take action?
Am I going to, am I going torespond?
Go ahead and open that app up,and for most young people that's
(16:09):
already open.
I shouldn't say most, but butfor many young people, they keep
their social media apps openall the time.
Holly Linden (16:15):
Many young people.
David Shannon (16:16):
They keep their social media apps open all the
time.
And so that's why when, likeeven in the surveys, when you
ask many young people like youknow, how often are you on
social media, a very frequentresponse is constantly and they
really mean that.
They mean, like, I keep it openand I take notifications all
(16:36):
the time, and so I just have toswing my phone up and I'm taking
action on it.
And so that action, what it'sgoing to do, it's going to lead
us to the opportunity of avariable ratio.
And what that variable rewardratio is, we would know it best
by, like science experimentswhere you put a rat in a little
container and the rat can pushthe bar and receive food.
(16:59):
Well, that doesn't release, uh,very much of excitement.
The neurons are not, uh,released, if you will, and and
so, um, because if it, if yougot the food every time it
pushed the button, you know,think about the slot machine for
(17:19):
gamblers, if you want to reallyget the most reward within that
little rat.
The ratio is about 1 to 10.
So let him push the bar about10 times and then randomly let
there be a response, not alwayson the 10th time just randomly
(17:40):
about one out of 10 times.
Let there be a positive response.
We'll see.
That's the reward.
Wow, that's cool.
I posted that I just got anotification.
Look at these people thatresponded Okay, I got that
notification and oh, I can'tbelieve.
No more than that's responded.
But what we are wanting is thisrelease that brings us
(18:03):
excitement.
So if we don't receive it, thenof course it's a bottomless
scroll.
Let me scroll on down.
Maybe there's other things thatwill bring that release of
excitement, if you will.
And then imagine, maybe I don'tget it from that platform.
So before I leave, I go aheadand maybe let's go over to
(18:25):
TikTok, because there arecertain videos and just TikToks
that I love to watch and myplatform knows me and it knows
the ones to feed me that I willcontinually scroll, and so it
feeds me the ones until I getthat release.
Ha, that was a great one.
That's why I watch this.
And so what happens is when wego over to kind of like the
(18:49):
fourth area.
So that's the gift.
But the fourth area is like aninvestment, and see, here's
where the animals in us weredifferent.
Animals can't make aninvestment of like a future
investment.
But see, that's when we havethe opportunity to say, well, if
that post did that well, let mepost again.
(19:10):
Or if that comment received somuch response, let me go and
make another investment and I'mgoing to make another comment on
this other post and see if Ican get responses to it too.
And so let's just say, at thatpoint I'm studying for a class.
I didn't even mean to beinterrupted, remember, it was
(19:33):
that interruption that I had ofa notification that brought me
in here to begin with, and I wasonly going to look for a second
.
But now I've actually evenreposted again and I've spent 30
minutes that I didn't evenrealize I was spending.
And so here's what's crazy Ilay my phone down to go back to
my study 30 minutes later andwithin four minutes five minutes
(19:56):
now I have an internalnotification that's saying I
wonder if anybody's respondedyet to what I responded to.
And so it's so easy to go backagain and pick it up and look
again.
Now I know that we could say apart of that is just behavior,
(20:17):
but there comes a time wherethat normal behavior crosses
over into addictive behavior.
Holly Linden (20:23):
Yeah.
David Shannon (20:24):
And I'm not an expert on that.
I'm not ready to say when thathappens, but it probably is
happening far more often withall ages of people than what we
would like to admit, all ages ofpeople than what we would like
to admit.
And like, I sat behind threegirls in church the other night
and they're awesome young ladies, I couldn't say enough good
(20:44):
about them Immediately at theend of service, when a man got
up to make announcements, I justnoticed that one of the girls
picked up her phone the app wasalready open and immediately
just began scrolling.
And then, immediately at theclose of those announcements,
(21:06):
she immediately laid it backdown and whatever song or prayer
was next, that's what sheparticipated in.
I'm just saying that to say Iwonder if you ask that young
lady hey, did you pick up yourphone during worship tonight?
I wouldn't be surprised if shesaid no.
No, it was probably more of ahabit that hey, pick it up,
(21:31):
scroll like an addictivebehavior that well, if there's
ever an idle moment, I guess Ijust do that.
I don't realize I do that.
BT Irwin (21:42):
Yeah, I knew I had a problem when Twitter was new and
I put the Twitter app on myphone.
I didn't realize I had aproblem until one day I was
sitting at a traffic light and Isuddenly realized I was
scrolling through Twitter whileI was sitting at the traffic
light and, um, and I thoughtthis is dangerous, like I'm
(22:04):
putting my life at risk, I'mputting other people's lives at
risk, and uh, so I deleted theapp off my phone.
I got rid of it after that andI haven't missed it at all.
So I want to, I want to ask youa little more about this, okay,
so, uh, obviously it's not agood thing and and I don't know
how much you know about this oryou have any research in this
(22:24):
particular area I was told oncethat when you're working on
something like study right,you're, you're studying for a
test, or you're working on aproject for school, or you're um
, or you're in church, forexample, that whenever something
to stretch takes your attentionaway from that thing you're
doing, uh, even for just acouple of minutes, it takes 20
(22:45):
minutes to get your brain likeshifted back into study mode or
church mode or something likethat.
So it seems to me that thoseconstant interruptions, um, it's
it's obvious that those are notgood for being present with the
people who are there with you,or the thing that you're trying
to do worship, work on a project.
I want to ask you, though is itjust the interruption of our
(23:10):
attention and the amount of timethat we're spending on screens
that's bad for us, or is it thecontent that we're consuming and
what we're doing there that'scausing the greater harm?
David Shannon (23:19):
You know, bt.
I'm glad that you asked that inthat specific way, because
today I am not spending a lot oftime on the content and that
should definitely be a concernthat individuals would ask
themselves.
And it should be a concern thatindividuals would ask
themselves and it should be aconcern that parents would have
for their child.
(23:40):
They should want to know whatcontent is your child consuming.
Spouses ought to be concernedabout what content your spouse
and I know there's there'sdifferent thoughts on that you
know my wife and I.
We have a relationship where wesay feel free at any time to
pick up each other's phone andit is the way that we're saying.
(24:03):
I want you to trust me.
But it's also that beauty ofaccountability that we need to
be careful with what we'reconsuming.
But today, I guess more on mymind in this conversation, and
not that it's more importantthan that, but it's just the
other side of addictive behaviorthat is literally built into
(24:24):
the algorithms.
There are engineers gettingpaid to continue to develop this
, and so when we offer to ourchildren, we offer to a 12 or a
13-year-old lady, a socialplatform, a social media
platform, we need to realize, asparents, we are offering them
something that everybody behindthat has designed it to be
(24:48):
addictive because that's howthey make the most money.
And and so you know that thatawareness is so important.
And and so you know that thatawareness is so important.
And if I could go back and makea comment of what we're talking
about previously and youtalking about being at the red
light and thinking, whoa, thisis.
You know, I had a similar storytold me, you know, back to the
(25:10):
notifications A heavy userreceives.
Now are you ready for this One,one notification?
BT Irwin (25:19):
a minute all through the whole day.
David Shannon (25:20):
My goodness.
So imagine you're involved atwork and again people will say,
oh, but I received thosenotifications, but I don't even
look at my phone.
But your mind has beeninterrupted and you've been
forced for a moment to think.
I wonder what that notificationis, I wonder which app it is, I
wonder which news feed it is, Iwonder fear of missing out.
(25:44):
I wonder if I'm missing out ifI don't pick it up right now.
And so, even if you don't pickup your phone at that point, you
still have had that attentionfragmentation.
That is not healthy for ourmental well-being.
When it's once every minutethroughout our waking hours.
And, by the way, for others yousay, well, I'm glad I'm not a
(26:08):
heavy user, but for many thatare receiving notifications it's
once every five minutes.
Holly Linden (26:13):
Wow.
David Shannon (26:14):
So imagine, six times an hour, six times an hour
, you're being interrupted likeon average, like clockwork here,
and we need to be concernedabout what uh that does for us.
And um, I tell you about uh, auh research project that was
(26:34):
done on this and what they didwas they brought students into a
room and they would test themwith math problems and to it's
cognitive thinking and all tomemorize letters in a certain
order.
And they would have them attimes to bring in to the lab
(26:54):
themselves without theirbackpack and say leave your
phone in your backpack and leaveit outside the room.
They're going to participate.
Other times they would havethem to come in and bring their
phone and say keep it in yourbackpack on the floor by your
lab table.
Then other times they would sayyou can have your phone out.
Just, you know, don't use it,but you can have it out on the
(27:19):
table.
And you know I could ask youwhich ones do you think scored
the best?
And on those tests, the timesthat the phone was outside the
room was the high scores.
The second high scores was whenit was in the bag.
The third the lowest scores waswhen it was in the bag, the
third the lowest scores was whenthey was on the table, and in
(27:40):
all three of those the phone wasnever utilized.
Holly Linden (27:43):
Yeah.
David Shannon (27:44):
Wow, and so the the attention deficit that
literally being present createsit just can't be ignored
literally being present creates.
BT Irwin (27:58):
It just can't be ignored.
Okay, so you made your case.
The parents who are listeningto this in the car with their
kids have probably alreadyreached into the backseat and
snatched their kids' phones andthrown them out the window.
What do we do?
Maybe you could talk about whatwe might do on a family level
about this potential foraddiction, this problem that
we're talking about, and thenperhaps you could talk about
(28:20):
what we might do on a societylevel.
David Shannon (28:23):
Okay, you know, I think what would be real
important for families to do isto begin talking about it openly
.
And, if you want to call it aself-evaluation, a family
evaluation, how are we utilizingscreens, how are we utilizing
(28:44):
social media?
And what is really good is if afamily can get a few of their
families that they're friendswith, that have children about
the same age, if they can dothis together.
That's why I think this wouldbe a great Sunday afternoon
workshop, ongoing for like fourweeks, at a church family where
(29:05):
you say, hey, all of you thathave, you know, maybe it's
junior high students orelementary students, or you know
, let's, let's talk about this,let's, let's read this book
together, let's bring in someguest speakers, but then let's
continue meeting over the nextfew Sundays and let's talk about
things that we could do as agroup so that we're in this
(29:26):
together and that would help somuch with the positive
reinforcement of peers, whetherit's parents to parents or if
it's child to child, thatthere's others involved in it.
But bottom line is that thisevaluation, it needs to be
things as simple as adults andthe children.
(29:49):
What's your goal with this app?
And we need to be real honest,you know.
Now back to content.
Right, is your goal with thisapp?
To see inappropriate content?
Well, we're not going to havethat app on our phone.
Holly Linden (30:01):
It's that simple.
David Shannon (30:02):
You know, or if your goal is you want to keep up
with a few of your best friends, okay, how can we best fulfill
that goal and then not becomeendless scrolling or endless
chatting, or whatever the app orplatform may be?
But it should be very importantto identify why we want the app,
(30:24):
how should it be used, and thencreate boundaries around that.
And you know, that's the thingfor any of us.
If we're going to have ahealthy life, we have to have
boundaries, we have to be ableto practice restraint in life,
we have to have boundaries, wehave to be able to practice
restraint in life, or we don'tget to enjoy the blessing of a
healthy life.
Well, it's the same way for ourchildren, it's the same way for
our families, and so I want tomention a few things.
(30:47):
But again, I do not want anyoneto hear me say, well, it has to
be this way, but there ought tobe boundaries within the home.
Okay, you're going to walk inwith your phone in the evening
and we all have our phones atthe house, but what time is time
?
That is phone free.
(31:08):
It's a zone that, hey, ourdinner table.
We don't even bring our phonesto the table Like would that be
a good call, or is there acertain time at night, hey,
everybody, it's name a time 7o'clock, it's 8 o'clock, it's 9
o'clock.
Whatever time it is, everybodyput your phones in the basket
and maybe the basket stays inthe kitchen and everybody goes
(31:29):
to bed.
What a difference it would makeif families had those clear,
healthy boundaries and old andyoung in the family observed
them.
You know, when I met withcollege students and we talked
about things that that we coulddo as individuals in a campus
community, we just pulled upsome sites.
(31:54):
You know Googled what aresolutions to overcome excessive
screen time or social mediaaddiction, and you know you go
to various sites and a lot ofthem will quickly throw out six
or seven or eight things, andI'll mention just a few here.
One was to turn offnotifications, which, by the way
, I was meeting with a staffmember the other day and you
(32:15):
know this chapel had been like amonth or so ago and out of the
blue he brought it up.
I noticed he pointed to a barewrist and he said you know,
after that awareness about theimpact of notifications, I
decided to stop wearing my smartwatch.
I decided to stop wearing mysmart watch and he said I am
(32:37):
really surprised at the effectthat it's had on me to not be
interrupted all the time withnotifications, but turn off
notifications, create tech-freezones, set time limits, track
time.
You know it's on your phone,how many hours you spend a day
(32:59):
on your phone and so everybodycould quickly look and see
everybody in their family, howmuch time that is.
I mentioned curate your socialmedias.
You know why are you using them.
If they're making you feel bad,why are you continuing to use
them?
I've mentioned intentionalgoals.
Take breaks.
Maybe there's times in a daywhere, like I've said to the
students, while we'rebrainstorming, I said what if,
(33:20):
after chapel, until like yourone or two o'clock class?
You said I just I don't getjust for me without
interruptions, whatever it maybe.
Have a mindset that says I willaccomplish tasks that are
important before I go and spendother time on the screen.
(33:44):
Others is digital detox.
A student walked up to me andsaid hey, two weeks cold turkey.
And I said really?
I said I said how's it going?
And the student said I wasstudying last night and he said
I only studied two hours.
And then he put a big grin onhis face and he said you won't
(34:04):
believe, I promise you.
He said this with a serious butbig grin.
He said you won't believe howmuch studying you can get done
when it's two hours ofuninterrupted study.
He said what an experience.
And I say that to say do yourealize?
Most of our high school andcollege students today have
never experienced that, or atleast they haven't.
(34:24):
They don't experience itregularly and they have
experienced it very few times intheir life because they just
haven't set that discipline thatsays, hey, I'm going to study
at seven o'clock, I want to godo something at nine o'clock
tonight, and so, to get the mostout of this, for the next two
hours I'm going to be completelyphone free.
Right now, I'm leaving it inthe bathroom and I'm going to go
(34:45):
in my room and study here.
What a difference it would makeif students could do that.
Charging our phones outside ofour bedrooms, never using our
phone in bed those are thingsthat are so important.
It's proven there's a lotbehind the effect on our sleep.
2011 to 12, when all of theincrease in smartphones, of
(35:09):
course, then having continualaccess to the Internet, which
then gave continual access toapps Our children's sleep began
to dip under seven hours.
It has a big effect.
And then something as simple asthis, engaging alternative
activities, figuring out whatcan we put in the place of those
(35:31):
times?
Hey, since we're not going touse our phones and be on our
phones at that time, or screensat that time, what's something
great we can do?
I remember one young lady.
She spoke up and she said, whenI first made that shift where I
said these are certain times ofthe day where I will not be on
my phone, she said I starteddoing other activities to fill
(35:52):
the time.
And she said, within about amonth I started to enjoy those
other activities far more than Iever enjoyed my phone.
But it took me a while to shiftmy mind.
You know what Hyatt would say inthe book the Anxious Generation
?
He says we have a group ofchildren today that instead of
growing up with play-basedexperiences, they have grown up
(36:13):
with phone-based experiences,and so we have to help them
retrain their mind to hey, yeah,the phone has helped wire your
mind a certain way, but giveenough time to allow yourself to
be wired to face-to-faceinteractions and external
(36:34):
interactions in our life andexternal interactions in our
life, and in that we should beable to also concentrate on
stronger social connections withpeople.
But if I can mention fourthings that's going to be
affected anytime we don'tmonitor these things and we go
into unhealthy cycles.
It's going to affect sociallife.
(36:56):
Students, children, are notgoing to develop as they should,
being able to look people inthe eye and interact.
If there is excessive screentimes.
It's going to affect theirsleep.
It's going to affect how muchsleep they get, it's going to
affect how long it takes them togo to sleep and it's going to
affect how long theiruninterrupted sleep can be.
(37:20):
And there's a lot, there'sstudies behind all that.
That's just sobering.
And then also we've talked aboutthrough notifications, it's
attention fragmentation.
Our children and adults, we arenot wired to live a healthy
life, trying to focus on thingsand have continual interruptions
.
It is unhealthy for us.
(37:41):
And then eventually the fourththing in this list here that
comes from the book and that iseventually it moves to addictive
behavior.
And it's just sad to think howmany of our children are
suffering with an addiction at ayoung age, while their parents
have been adamant saying I'm notgoing to let you get in a car
(38:02):
with a stranger, I'm not goingto let you walk around the
neighborhood alone.
It's just too dangerous.
And so we've been maybe evenoverly protective with our
children in the real world andwe have been so underprotective
with our children in the digitalworld.
(38:22):
And what Hyatt would argue inhis book and what I would just
say it's definitely worth a readand it's worth a thought is are
we balancing these?
the way they should be.
It's very concerning.
BT Irwin (38:41):
I just want to add my own personal testimony to this.
I was in the ER about six weeksago with extremely high blood
pressure and there were severalcauses of that Just sedentary
lifestyle, not eating well, uh,anxiety, stress, things like
that One of the changes I madeI've made a lot of changes to my
(39:02):
life since then.
One of the changes I made wasthat I turned off news
notifications on my phone and Ihave to tell you I have not
missed them and I feel like my.
I feel like the world hasgotten lighter and the air has
gotten pure and I am notconstantly ruminating and
worrying about the news.
Just just from that one thing,and I would not go back to
(39:25):
having news notifications turnedon my phone.
You, uh, you said something aminute ago.
I I don't know if you'reprepared to answer this, but it
gave me an idea.
One of the hardest things abouthaving a 12 year old is that
all of his friends at schoolhave phones and he does not.
We don't let our son have aphone.
He's not on social media andthe peer pressure is intense,
(39:49):
right, and it's getting moreintense as he gets older.
You said something about acongregation, maybe, maybe doing
a couple of workshops or it'salmost like you need to have a
group of people.
You said talk to parents, youknow, and try to form a group of
people that it seems like makekind of a commitment to one
another about phone use orscreen use and what they're
(40:11):
going to do when they're onthere, and that that would be a
positive kind of peer pressure.
Are you aware of any, anyresources that are available to
congregations or to parents thatwant to do something like this?
David Shannon (40:25):
You know, I'm not aware of it.
And that brings us back, bt, toone of the first questions you
asked when you said why is thison my heart?
You can tell just by hearing metoday.
I'm not an expert by any meanson this topic, but I am very
concerned about it and my goalin you know my position of life,
(40:48):
just as a person, one person inlife with the other
responsibilities I have my goalis to raise awareness.
You know, I hope somebody, Ihope there's many people hearing
this today.
That's like.
You know.
I have some extra time.
I'm taking this on.
I'm going to write that book BTis talking about.
That's a great workbook forchurch families to get together
(41:08):
and study through.
I'm going to do more researchon this and I'm going to become
that local speaker that goesaround and I'm just going to
make sure that people know whatthe facts are.
Again, I'm not asking hey,let's stir up some kind of
extremism here.
I believe that the internet isgoing to be around.
I believe smartphones are goingto be around.
(41:30):
I don't believe that to be afaithful Christian, you have to
avoid those.
I don't believe for ourchildren to be faithful
Christians and to developproperly, they have to avoid
those altogether.
Properly, they have to avoidthose altogether.
But I do believe it's going totake a lot of intention, and we
can't be intentional in arighteous way unless we know the
facts, and so we need a lotmore people that are speaking up
(41:55):
and helping us learn what iswhat and what should be the
result of what we do now know.
BT Irwin (42:06):
Well, I want to close with a question specific to the
work you're doing at FreedHardeman University.
Young people are your bread andbutter, so the very generations
that are dealing with theproblems we discussed today,
dealing with them in the mostacute manner, are the ones that
are enrolling at your university, as you said.
So, on one hand, freed Hardemanhas a social media presence.
(42:27):
You offer a lot of classesonline and thus on screen, so
you're clearly not anti-screenor anti-social media.
We're recording this on theinternet for something that
people are going to listen to ontheir phones.
How do you design and sustainan environment at Freed Hardeman
where your students have abetter chance of avoiding the
worst of social media or screentime addiction?
David Shannon (42:50):
You know, with a residential college campus, our
responsibility is not to be theparent to the students, but I do
like to think that we are areally good supportive bridge,
as children are leaving home forthe first time and when they
leave us they're going to go outinto the world as a young adult
(43:13):
, professional young adult.
And so, while they're here, howcan we be supportive and how
can we give a healthyenvironment in which for them to
live?
And, as I mentioned to youbefore, I don't think the answer
to is avoid modern technology,but the answer is to give
(43:35):
awareness to what is happening,expect them to be wise enough to
make good decisions, but then,even when they're not making
good decisions, at least then,when they reach the point that
says I'm sick of this, they know.
What a better response is.
And the reason I say it that way, bt, is I really do believe
(43:57):
that many are dealing with thisas an addiction, and you know,
we've all heard and then we'veexperienced, whether it's in our
own lives or helping others.
You can't really help an addictuntil an addict wants to be
helped, and so I do believe thatjust continual awareness.
Now, what I've said to theyoung people here is that the
(44:18):
good news is you probably won'traise your children in the same
way your parents raised you, andthen I tried to throw out a
little bit of grace to theirparents, because their parents
did not know the things that weknow today.
Like when you go back to 2011and 12, and I really just
started here today but when youlook at the graphs, that's when
(44:40):
the hockey stick goes up.
That's when so many in Americahad access to a phone, which
gave them the Internet becamemobile.
Now it's not just at my desktopat home, now I can take it with
me everywhere I go, and so nowit's not just that I go on
social media before I leaveschool and when I get back home
(45:02):
from school.
Now I take social media with meand receive the notifications
every minute or two.
And so what I'm saying is thatstarted happening 2011 and 12.
And I'm doing my hand like this,the hockey stick because then,
when you see the sharp increasesthat sometime go up as much as
400%.
(45:22):
Because then, when you see thesharp increases that sometimes
go up as much as 400 percent,when you see the sharp increases
of depression, of anxiety, ofsuicidal thoughts, spending less
time with my friends in personwe could go on and on those all
go back to that point in timewhere you say what changed in
America at that time, and I knoweven around other parts of the
(45:44):
world, and that was a change.
So and I know this is too latein this to bring this up, so
I'll just throw it out.
For that person that wants todo more study, okay, go back and
study how long it took for thetobacco industry to be held
accountable, and then how theawareness began to come out, and
(46:04):
then how, eventually, there waslike a communal responsibility
If you're a good parent, youdon't let your 14 year old smoke
cigarettes.
Well, it took us a while to getthere.
Holly Linden (46:15):
Yes.
David Shannon (46:16):
OK.
And so what I'm saying is weare already seeing the pressure,
through potential litigation,for social media platforms to
take more responsibility, andwe're going to see parents
taking much more responsibilityin the next decade.
I know I'm speaking like in aprophetic sense, but I believe
it with all my heart.
(46:36):
Ok, where the dangers are justtoo great, you can't argue
against it.
And so what I'm trying to sayto students today is you're in
like this tough generation timewhere your parents really didn't
know better, and the thing is,when you raise your child, you
will know better.
And so what I'm saying to thisgeneration here guys, you got to
(46:58):
help yourself, and the reasonI'm saying it that way is take
the time to learn what'shappening and be aware of it and
be honest with yourself.
And then you know, holdyourself accountable by letting
other people hold yourselfaccountable.
A guy spoke up in front of abreakout group of about 200
students he's sitting on theback row and he wasn't the type
(47:20):
of guy you'd expect to speak upand he said I said, guys, what
have you done personally that'smade a difference in your life?
And, man, he raised his handand he said I knew I had to do
something.
So I got my friend to put anapp on my phone and he's the
only one that knows the passwordand I forget the timeframe he
(47:40):
said, but I think he said liketwo hours, and he said after two
hours it shuts down and I can'tget on it again for 24 hours.
And what I'm saying is ourstudents, our young people
across America, they need to bein environments to hear their
peers talk about hey, there's away out, you can find solutions.
(48:03):
But let's talk about it, let'sbe aware, and then let's move
forward in healthy ways.
BT Irwin (48:11):
Sounds like you're cultivating that kind of
environment at Freed HardemanUniversity.
David Shannon is president ofFreed Hardeman University, which
sponsored this special episode.
Why?
Because they believe thissubject is so crucial for our
emerging generations and theolder generations that care for
them.
David, thank you for bringingyour heart and your mind to us
(48:31):
today, and thank you to FreedHardeman University for
sponsoring this special episode.
David Shannon (48:36):
Thank you for the opportunity.
Can I close with one verse?
Holly Linden (48:40):
Yes.
David Shannon (48:41):
Proverbs, the fourth chapter.
He's talking about putting theword of God in the midst of your
heart, and then he saysthere'll be health to all their
flesh.
Guard or keep your heart withall diligence, for out of it
springs the issues of life.
I would say that to all of uspersonally, hear me say that,
(49:02):
talking to yourself, are youguarding what's going into your
heart, because that's what'sgoing to flow out of life?
But then I'm speaking toparents.
What can we do to guard whatgoes into our children's heart,
because that's what's going toflow out of life?
And we've been seeing a lot ofanxiety and depression flowing,
and so let's put something elsein.
And so I say that with liketears a little bit in my eyes,
(49:25):
because I've been a parent and Iknow how hard it is.
I've been a parent and I knowhow hard it is to push against
culture and um.
And so I would just say to usthat we can do this.
Uh, our children deserve for usto step up and be parents.
BT Irwin (49:40):
David, thank you, thank you Once again.
We invite you to check out thisepisode's sponsor, freed
Hardeman University.
It's not only a place where youcan get a first-class education
.
It is a community where yourlife in Christ will form and
mature in ways that willsurprise you.
Go to fhuedu that's fhuedu tostart your exploration of Freed
(50:03):
Hardeman University today.
And if this is the first timeyou've ever listened to one of
our Christian Chronicle podcasts, we invite you to check out our
full catalog atchristianchronicleorg or
wherever you listen to yourfavorite shows.
Until next time, may grace andpeace be yours in abundance.
Holly Linden (50:20):
The Christian Chronicle podcast is a
production of the ChristianChronicle Inc.
Informing and peace be yours inabundance.
Editor-in-chief Bobby Ross Jrand President and CEO Eric
Trigestad.
The Christian Chronicle Podcastis written, directed, hosted
(50:47):
and edited by BT Irwin and isproduced by James Flanagan in
Detroit, michigan, usa.
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