Ep. 77 - Zan Tyler: The Homeschool Pioneer Who Faced Jail For Her Kids - The Christy-Faith Show

Episode Transcript
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Christy-Faith (00:00):
Behind every homeschooling freedom we cherish
today stands a pioneer, afighter, and a relentless
advocate. Today, I feel honoredto have Zan Tyler on our show. A
beacon of resilience whosejourney began in 1984 under the
looming threat of jail. Herstory is not just about
homeschooling, it's a testamentto unwavering determination and

(00:22):
the power of a single voice toshape history. As a trailblazer
for over three decades, ZanTyler has championed
homeschooling freedoms withunmatched passion.
From navigating legal battles topublishing vital curriculum, she
has empowered countless parentsto embrace their role as
educators. Her voice resonatesnot only as an uplifting speaker

(00:45):
and author, but also as the hostof the Zan Tyler podcast, where
she delivers practical wisdomand unwavering encouragement
week after week. Today, ashomeschooling flourishes, it's
easy to forget the challenges ofyesteryears. Zan Tyler is taking
us back to the roots of herjourney. You'll get to discover
what fueled her in the faceresistance and uncertainty, and

(01:08):
you'll learn how she perseveredthrough sacrifices and setbacks,
all to secure the rights that wecherish as homeschoolers today.
This episode isn't just abouthistory, it's about empowering
homeschool families everywhere.Zan Tyler's insights will
inspire you, her advice willfortify you, and her story will
remind you that every challengeis a stepping stone towards

(01:31):
greater freedom fulfillment inyour homeschooling journey. I'm
so glad you were able to cometoday.

Zan Tyler (01:45):
Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to
be here, and we have talkedabout this for a while. So this
is great. Thank you.

Finally. I wanna start at the beginning. Can you
share your story with us, Whatled you to homeschooling and
what it was like in those earlydays?

Zan Tyler (02:01):
Well, it was a very backdoor way into homeschooling.
I had a son. My oldest son wasin kindergarten, and he was the
only one not reading. It was areally avant garde kindergarten
with eight kids. He wasgregarious, vivacious, very,
very smart, but not reading.
Only eight kids in the class. SoI watched him really atrophy

(02:26):
during the last half of theschool year. He had
psychosomatic stomach aches anddifferent things going it's
totally out of norm for him. SoI just took him out of
kindergarten. In college, therewere two things I said I would
never do.
One was teach and the other washave kids. And so I knew nothing
about what to do for Thaieducationally because I had on
purpose avoided the whole topic.So I talked to a friend of mine

(02:48):
with a master's and she said, Iwas saying, just need to hold
Thai back a year. Sometimeslittle boys don't read. Mean, if
I knew then what I knew now,this would have never even been
an issue.
So I had Ty tested by twodifferent child psychologists.
The female PhD said he was amotor mouth who needed to be on
Ritalin, and I certainly didn'tneed to hold him back. The male
child psychologist said he was aman's man at the age of six, had

(03:11):
an unbelievable vocabulary. Hewas motivated. He was energetic.
And I thought every schoolteacher in the system is gonna
see him the way the femalepsychologist did. So I knew that
holding him back was really ouronly choice. I took my test
results to the school district.They said, fine, we'll put him
in kindergarten here. We hadmoved back from Boston, so we

(03:32):
had moved into the schooldistrict where I'd gone to
school on purpose.
And everything was fine untilthe June when the school
principal notified me that Icouldn't hold Ty back. I had to
put him in the first grade. AndI said, well, that's not an
option and private schools arefilled. And in the meantime, a
really close friend of mine thatI used to get together with once

(03:52):
a week, she was a little bitolder than me and had taught in
public school, although our kidswere the same age. She said,
Zane, I'm homeschooling.
And it was the first time I hadever heard the word. And it was
one of the worst days of mylife. I just thought, this is
bizarre. They were both gettingtheir master's degrees. They

(04:13):
were getting ready to go toKenya on the mission field.
And in their little mobile home,all I could think was I've got
to get out of here because whenI heard the word homeschool, I
just thought about Star Wars andWookie and all you know, the
four heroines are in that thattrash compactor and the walls
are closing in, and I thought, Igotta get out of here. But she
gave me a book, Homegrown Kidsby doctor Raymond Moore. And

(04:35):
actually, I read through it as acourtesy to my friend, it was
just one of those life changingmoments. And I thought, if
there's education that canreally happen this way in a home
with warm, responsive parents,plenty of time for play,
service, pursuing interest. I'mall in.
And then I realized, no, this is1984. We didn't know anybody in

(04:57):
the world who homeschooled. Imean, was nobody to go to for
advice. There's no misterGoogle. There's no HSLDA.
I think they had actuallystarted on the West Coast, but
it wasn't a nationalorganization in scope. I mean,
it was the very beginnings. Andso I just thought, I can't do
this. I can't do this to myfamily. I can't do this to my
parents.
I can't do this to us. And sobasically, I just dropped the

(05:20):
whole thing. Called a friend ofmine. He had been my principal
in high school. He was nowassociate superintendent in the
district.
And I said, John, can you justwrite a note, hold, and tie
back? Very simple request. Theyused to do it all the time. No,
Zan. I'm sorry.
I can't do that. And so I said,well, I guess I'll just have to
homeschool tie. That was reallymy ace in the hole. And he said,
oh, yeah. The school district'sgetting real liberal about that.

(05:42):
You should do it. And you couldhave knocked me over with a
feather. So later, I found outthat the school district had
approved one person for one yearin the history of the school
district for homeschooling, andshe was a certified teacher. And
I had to hire an attorney justto find out what the homeschool
law was. School districteducation wouldn't give it to

(06:03):
me.
We had to hire an attorney tofind out the law. So long story,
I filled out this application. Ilaugh and say it was about three
inches thick, thirty six weeksyllabus, books in my home, a
fire escape plan, lighting plan,letters of recommendation. It
was pretty hardcore, and thenthey turned me down. So I called

(06:24):
my attorney back.
I mean, I had met the letter ofthe law in that application, I
can tell you. So I called myattorney back, and he said,
Zane, you're gonna have toappeal to the State Board of
Education. I said, what happensthen? They'll rubber stamp what
the school district says, andthen you'll end up in family
court. And at this point, I'mreally arguing with God over
this because I really felt likethis was all his leading.

(06:46):
And so I woke up one morning inthe throes of all of this, and I
thought, well, the statesuperintendent of education is a
friend of my mother's. I'm justgonna call him. My mom was an
excellent public school teacher,and when he was getting his PhD
in education, he actuallyobserved her classroom for
several months. So I would seehim every afternoon when I was

(07:06):
at school. So I called doctorWilliams, and I said, doctor
Williams, Sybil Peter'sdaughter, I have a real problem.
Can I come see you? He said, canyou come this morning? I'll
clear my calendar. He was afriend. So I went to see him,
and he was a reasonable person.
And I really felt like he wasgonna say to me, you have
exhausted, Legally, it's calledexhausting all of your

(07:27):
administrative, opportunities. Ihad exhausted every avenue. And
now I had been turned down forhomeschooling, and I thought he
was gonna say, you're a mom wholoves your son. How can I help
you right this wrong? Instead,when I told him my story, he
looked at me and he said, if youcontinue down this path of
homeschooling, I will have youput in jail for truancy.

(07:48):
I have never been more shockedor surprised in my life by
somebody's response. And I justtook a deep breath, and I said,
well, Doctor. Williams, you'lljust have to put me in jail. And
I got up and left. So the kickerwas Joe and I lived a half a
mile from his parents, threemiles from my parents.

(08:08):
We hadn't told anybody in theworld we were gonna homeschool.
Now I had to go see my parentswho were very involved in the
South Carolina community andsay, mom and dad, I'm
homeschooling Ty this year. Myschool district 's turned me
down. My hearing is in a week ortwo, and doctor Williams just
threatened to put me in jail. Ididn't want you to read about it
in the newspaper.
I would it would not have said,pee on mom, Zan Tyler goes to

(08:31):
jail. It would have said JohnPeter's daughter goes to jail.
And so that was that was sort ofhow it all started.

Dan, what was it like in those early days when
you were beginning tohomeschool?

Zan Tyler (08:43):
Honestly, it was terrible. We finally ended up
getting approved by the StateBoard of Education because I had
worked for a US senator whoactually flew down and spoke on
my behalf to the statesuperintendent. So they approved
my program. But there was nosupport. We had people in our
neighborhood whose kids could nolonger play with our sons
because they were homeschooled.

(09:04):
We had people at church whowouldn't speak to us. We had
family friends who wouldn'tspeak to us. I mean, this is
1984. Nobody knows ahomeschooler. Nobody knows what
homeschooling is, including me.
You know, I'm I'm on the cusp oflearning everything too. And so
it was lonely. From that firstyear, we homeschooled
practically every day. We livedin this small cul de sac

(09:27):
neighborhood. A policeman wouldride by my house on most days.
Now this is a very quiet,secluded neighborhood. And and
it was, you know, just to makesure, I guess, my kids were we
were home, and my kids wereinside, and we were
homeschooling. So it wasactually, it was pretty harsh.
And I'm a people person, and Ilove people. I want people to be

(09:48):
happy.
It was really hard on me. I feltlike I was in exile. What I saw
happening in our home as wehomeschooled totally changed, I
believe, the trajectory of Ty'slife. It was amazing to begin to
have this supportive, warm,responsive relationship, as this
book I read said. And so we getto that end of the first year,

(10:11):
and I told Joe, I said, youknow, I want to do this again.
I really feel like the Lord isleading us to do this one more
year. And he said, okay. I wasafraid of that, but okay. And so
we were approved that year.

Hey. This was not on the prepared question, so
sorry to throw you a curveballhere. But something that we talk
about a lot in Thrive HomeschoolCommunity, especially with our
group of brand new homeschoolmoms, is we talk about how their
friendship landscape is going tochange. And I do think that when
we make that transition tohomeschooling, it it
communicates a lot withoutcommunicating a lot. And our

(10:47):
decision to homeschool can makea lot of people uncomfortable.
What words of encouragement?Because what you faced sounded
very severe, probably moresevere than what we face today.
But what advice would you givethat homeschool mom who's
decided to homeschool? She'sreally excited about it, and
then she kinda looks up andrealizes, wait a minute. Like,

(11:08):
I'm gonna lose all my friendsmaybe.

Zan Tyler (11:09):
You know, it's interesting. I used to run a
lot, and I used to read thismarathoner. He was a gold medal
marathonist. And he said whenyou start running, your life is
gonna change, and you basicallyneed to find new friends that
will encourage you in yourpursuit. It really doesn't mean
you leave your old friendsbehind, but you do need to find

(11:29):
your community that is going tosupport you, help you get out of
bed on those days that you don'tfeel like getting out of bed and
doing this, and can cheer you onin your decision to homeschool.
That's why your community,Thrive Community, is so
important. Joe and I started astate organization that offers a
lot of support. I mean, my wholeafter going through what we did

(11:53):
those first few years, we wereactually in court of the
legislature for eight years,after we started homeschooling.
And that was so defining for mebecause I'll never forget what
it was like to be totally alonein that decision. And so find
support.
Find your people. And, you know,I will say the new friends I

(12:14):
found in homeschooling areamazing lifelong friends. It's
like, I thought to be overlydramatic, you've been through
the battles together. You'vebeen through the good times and
the bad times. And homeschoolingis not easy.
It's not that it's not for thefaint of heart because I think
courage is not that we're notafraid. We just keep going

(12:34):
through it. Yeah. It can bedaunting. So you need your
friends.
I needed friends, and I didn'thave it. And so I would really
encourage you to develop those.

Yeah. And I think just normalizing that this is
one of the expectations when youchange your lifestyle in this
way. I think it blindsidespeople because people don't
really talk about it. Butreally, you know, I do a talk at
conferences on naysayers, likehow to handle the naysayers and
the skeptics in your life. And Ikinda equate it to, like, think
of it as you're in a friendgroup where everyone drinks and

(13:07):
then you get sober.
Right? You leaving says a lot.You're working on yourself.
You're bettering your life.Right?
And you're gonna get a lot ofjudgment from those other
people. Mhmm. But it's notnecessarily a bad thing. This is
you growing, and you're right.You have to find that new tribe,
that new group who is gonnasupport you and just kind of

(13:27):
have it as an expectation.
And as you're making thattransition, just kind of look at
your current friendshiplandscape and look at who's
mature. Look at who can do thisjourney with you. Right? I have
a few friends who don'thomeschool. Well, one being who
I am.
It's really hard to be my friendif you don't homeschool because
they go to my social media, andthey're like, she said, what?

(13:47):
And it's like, yes. I did saythat out loud. So but my friends
who don't homeschool homeschool,they're just really strong. It's
just not for them.
And we and this is for me, andwe do life anyway. So thank you
for that encouragement. And,yeah, it must have been really
lonely days, and I know you'rean extrovert, and you're a
people person. And the one thingthat I wanna add to that is,

(14:09):
especially since I've enteredthe homeschool space and, you
know, Christy Faith kinda becameChristy Faith, one thing my son
told me as he was traveling withus this past year is he said,
mom, you've really up leveledyour friends. And he's right.
I agree with you so much, Zan,that the friends that I have

(14:29):
found in the homeschooling spaceare truly incredible lifelong
friends. I wanna transition nowabout that resistance that you
were facing in those earlyyears. What was going through
your mind, and did you ever feellike giving up, or did it just
fuel your determination?

Zan Tyler (14:44):
You know, I think it's both. That is a both and,
not an either or. Because, youknow, it, in retrospect, it
kills my soul that wanting tohold my child back one year
because it was best for him. Ihad the test scores to prove it
from a school psychologist. Itcould set all of this in motion.

(15:05):
How can doing one one minorchange for a child set all this
in motion? Doing the best for mychild was such an overwhelming
push for me that that kept megoing. I felt like it was God's
call in my life. I felt like itwas the best thing for time. And

(15:25):
so the overarching picture wasit fueled that desire to keep
going.
The day to day picture is it waslonely, and it was hard. And
there were a lot of days Ithought it would be a whole lot
more comfortable, and my lifewould be nicer if I just quit.
Those were just the dailyarguments I had to have with

(15:46):
myself. But it wasn't theoverarching, the big why, the
big picture that kept me fueled.

And even the curriculum options back then
were they were slim pickings.How did you even do it? Because
moms today, we obsess over ourbiggest problem right now isn't
am I gonna be thrown in jaillike it was for you? It's what
curriculum am I gonna buy? Andis it nature study?
Right? Is it

Zan Tyler (16:09):
a living room? Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And I I just I I sometimes I think of
you, you know, just witheverything that you've done for
our movement and the fights thatyou have fought, and I just
think, like, what is Ianthinking right now when this is
our biggest worry? What wascurriculum like back then?

Zan Tyler (16:27):
Well, it was not fun. But I will say sometimes there's
so many choices, it's harderthan having a few. The first
year we homeschooled, there wasthis archaic homeschooling law
we were functioning with. Andthey told me I had to use the
curriculum that a public orprivate school was using in my
district. And I wanted to use aChristian curriculum.

(16:49):
Turns out it was not suited formy son at all. They would not
sell the teacher's manual to me.I sort of had to find it on the
black market. And every day itwould start off with like, have
your kids put their feet on thefloor, their hands on the desk,
look you in the eye. You know,it just wasn't written for
homeschoolers.
And so that induced a lot ofguilt in me because I had a

(17:12):
child who was auditorykinesthetic. He learned by
talking and moving. So every dayI felt like a failure. Well, the
next year, a friend of mine, sheand her husband had moved from
The Presidio, which is he was aENT surgeon, and they were
homeschooling in California.They moved to South Carolina.
And she said, we need to figureout how we can use BJU Press as

(17:36):
our curriculum. And she says,Anne, I don't know how you
function this year. That isactually when I contacted BJU
Press Homeschool, as we call itnow. And it really started a
lifelong relationship becausethey were willing to work with
me and help me. Now in the earlydays I mean, BJU Press now is so

(17:57):
much more homeschool friendlywith their videos and
consultants and all of that.
But then they were really theonly company who would sit down
and have a conversation with me.So we have a relationship that
goes way, way back.

Yeah. And a lot of people don't realize that BJU
Press homeschool, I mean, theythey continue to support
homeschooling freedoms andrights. They do this monetarily.
They financially support thestate nonprofits. They are a
sponsor of my podcast.
I am incredibly thankful. Andit's so funny because going into
this homeschooling journey many,many years ago, over a decade

(18:30):
ago, you know, and I was aclassical and I was a Charlotte
Mason homeschooler, and I wouldview kind of these box curricula
options as, oh, I'm not doingthat. That's school at home.
And, you know, I'm reallyembarrassed about that now
because when I started embracingBJU Press homeschool for some
subjects, this past year was ourbest year ever in homeschooling.

(18:53):
And the videos are just sobeautifully produced, and I'm
particularly thankful.
And I don't think people realizethat, you know, nonprofits are
nonprofits. Right? We need thesecompanies to help support us on
a corporate level assponsorships, and BJU Press is
always there to support thestates. I see it because I'm in
the background and so are you.And so we kinda see which

(19:16):
companies are supporting thestates.
And so for anyone listening whois kind of like, I really wanna
buy a curriculum that is is itfrom a company who is supporting
my homeschooling rights, you canrest assured that BJU Press
Homeschool is one of those, andyou can contact a consultant. So
that was not the commercial.We'll get that commercial break
in a second. I just really lovethe curriculum. I was going

(19:38):
through yesterday, what we'redoing for next year, and I loved
what I did last year that we'redoing it all again.
Let's move on to the nextquestion. So homeschooling moms
face their own challenges. Wehave overwhelm. We have self
doubt and even criticism fromothers. What would you say to a
mom who feels like she is notenough?
As a homeschool mom who values afamily together approach and

(20:01):
leans towards the classical andCharlotte Mason styles, I often
struggle to bring my educationalvision to life with my kids'
diverse ages and learning needs.With all our interests and super
packed schedule, bridging thatgap between the dreamy
homeschool I want and reality, Igotta be honest. It's a
challenge. Now, yes, I knowperfection isn't the goal. But
if you're listening and youcould use a little easing of

(20:22):
your mental load in your day today, I found a resource that has
become the quiet hero of ourroutine, and it could be a
really great option for you too.
BJU Press homeschool curriculum.Now many think that BJU Press
homeschool is solely an all inone option, and though it does
excel in that role, did you knowyou can also opt for specific
courses and tailor them to fityour family's needs just as I

(20:44):
have? BGU Press Homeschoolprovides the perfect balance of
structure and flexibility andeasily complements my family's
mixed age family together on thecouch learning style. They are
second to none in integrating abiblical worldview, stimulating
critical thinking, and offeringtons of hands on activities in
the lessons. To find out how BJUPress Homeschool can come

(21:04):
alongside you in yourhomeschooling goals too.
Visit b j u press homeschool dotcom or click the link in the
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(21:27):
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(21:51):
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Zan Tyler (22:00):
First of all, I would say that's the wrong question.
We need to be asking what do ourchildren need, and how can we
get that for them? And let metell you, those are not the two
questions that that schooldistricts are asking about your
children. I mean, they have aplan, and it has to be this way.
It's mass instruction.

(22:21):
But we can become students ofour children. Learn how they
learn. Learn what motivatesthem. And it's a very exciting
journey. I have grown kids now.
And see how you can play totheir strengths, teach to their
strengths. I mean, that's agreat way to homeschool. I mean,
there's no perfect school.There's no perfect teacher.

(22:43):
There's no school without gaps.
Because when we first startedhomeschooling, everybody
commented on to me. I mean, itwas being like being the worst
money morning quarterbacksituation ever. Everybody
thought they could speak into mylife, and everybody was telling
me how I was ruining my kids.And I certainly knew I was not
enough. And I can just rememberI would wake up at 02:00 every

(23:07):
morning with all of theconversations from the day
racing through my head.
And Joe's my best friend. Iwould wake him up because I knew
he wanted to participate in allof this angst. You know? And so
finally, after about six weeksof this, he looked at me and he
said, Zanny, Jesus is alwaysawake. And what he was telling
me was, I need to go pray andlet him sleep.

(23:30):
Those sessions for me every at02:00 in the morning for years
and years and years, it reallychanged me. And I had the
thought one morning when I'm upby this time, it's like 03:30 in
the morning. How many teachersdid I have that cried over me in
the middle of the night orprayed over me or was really
worried about a character traitthey saw in me or didn't see in

(23:51):
me or was concerned about thefact that maybe I wasn't picking
up geometry as fast as I pickedup algebra one and two? You
know, nobody. And and I finallyrealized we have so much angst
in this because we have so muchskin in the game and because we
love our kids so much.
It's loving our kids so muchthat causes us to feel all of

(24:14):
these unique feelings that wefeel. And so I just think by
virtue of the love a parent hasfor the child, it's always gonna
make homeschooling sensitive,demanding, and leaving us like
we don't we are not enough. Butlet me tell you, you are. You
love your child more thananybody in the world. You're

(24:35):
more invested in their livesthan anybody in the world.
I used to have a plaque in myoffice that says a worried mom
does better research than theFBI. I mean, a homeschooling mom
will do what it takes to gettheir child what they need. The
people who make a difference arenot the ones with their
credentials, but the ones withthe concern.

Was there a moment in your fight for
homeschooling freedoms where yourealized, wait a minute. This is
way bigger than my own family. Ineed to make some changes here.
And what was that journey like?

Zan Tyler (25:05):
You know, there were two moments for me that were
foundly life changing. One was,you know, the threat of jail and
all of that, but that was justpart of the bigger story. After
we started homeschooling thatfirst year, and that year was so
bad, I had a call from a woman.She had her PhD in education
from the University ofTennessee. She moved to South

(25:27):
Carolina to take over theireducation department at Columbia
International University.
And her name was LorraineNitterman. And she called me up
and she said, Zan, I've heardabout you. I'd like to meet you.
I said, okay. I mean, I wasthrilled.
She wanted to take me to dinner.Most people wanted to put me in
jail. I mean, it was like thenicest thing anybody had said to

(25:48):
me since we startedhomeschooling. So Lorraine, we
met at a little cheap Italianrestaurant, and she looked at me
and she held my hand. And shesaid, I just want you to know
that God is in homeschooling,and this is bigger than you.
He will take care of the mess,and he will take care of your
children. You need to persevereand be faithful. And it took her

(26:13):
five minutes to tell me that. Itchanged my life. It let me know.
I didn't know exactly what thatmeant, but it let me know there
was more to this than just theanxiety we were going through as
a family. Now fast forward abouta year. It's November now of
1985. This is our second year tohomeschool. I get a knock on my

(26:34):
door one night.
I think it was ten. And wheneverI got a knock on my door, and it
was after dark, it scared me. Ithought, okay. This is DSS
coming to get my kids. So Joewas home.
Thank goodness. He used totravel a lot. So I went to the
door, and it was my neighbor.Bill. We loved Bill and Peggy.
And they were not fans ofhomeschooling, but Bill ran a

(26:56):
state agency. And he said, Zan,do you know what the state
register is? I said, no. And hesaid, well, it's a place where
state agencies can promulgatelegislation, and it doesn't even
have to be approved. If nobodyobjects in ninety days, then it
automatically becomes law.
Could be one hundred and eightydays. I need to check that out.
And he said, I just found theseregulations that the State

(27:17):
Department of Education ispromulgating about
homeschooling. They wannarequire that teaching parents
only have a college degree froman accredited university, which
cut out Harvard and BJU, and youcan only use state approved
text. So no faith basedcurriculum, no curriculum of
your choice, just what theschools are using.

(27:37):
He said, you need to know aboutthis. And I thought, woah. So I
called my attorney, and he said,Zane, you need to call a public
hearing. If you get 25 lettersin, you can call a public
hearing and stop theseregulations. And which we did,
and we did stop them, but it setin process then the next seven

(27:57):
years of being in thelegislature in court.
But those were sort of the twodetermining moments in my life.
One was somebody giving mevision. The second was somebody
presenting me with a problemthat was so heinous, I knew I
could not not be involved.

And at the time, can you explain to the listener
what was the landscape ofhomeschooling across the
country?

Zan Tyler (28:23):
I didn't know because I didn't know anybody across the
country. Joe and I, we had Tandy1,000 for any of you who are old
enough to remember what in theworld that was. And we were just
starting to keep a list of namesand addresses. And most of the
calls I was getting were fromattorneys or litter literacy
organizations across thecountry. And so it was you know,

(28:47):
I wasn't getting calls frompeople I wanna homeschool my
kids or or I didn't know whatwas going on in other states.
I mean, there's no social media.There's no national
homeschooling organization.There's no way to know those
things.

Yeah. Now today, we can go to our state
organization. We can go toHSLDA, and we can get help. We
can get someone we can get alawyer on the phone in under
twenty four hours, basically.Right.
That was not your experience.But No. And I know you were
kinda living in this microcosm.At the time, knowing what you
know now, what was it lookinglike? Because I know that you
had become friends with MikeFerris, who is the founder of

(29:21):
HSLDA.
What was the case? But not yet.Okay.

Zan Tyler (29:25):
So Not yet.

So at the time, what was homeschooling law like
across the nation? Because I dobelieve it wasn't until the
early nineteen nineties that itwas legal in all 50 states.

Zan Tyler (29:35):
Right. And so this is 1985, and I really had no
concept of anything going onaround the country. I just
didn't know. I mean, I had wehad been to Atlanta for a small
meeting, with doctor Moore and afew attorneys, and there were
groups from a few states. Therewere seven people there from

(29:56):
South Carolina.
Nobody would give their lastnames or phone numbers because
they were so afraid that one ofus was a mole, and things were
so awful. So that was myknowledge of what was going on.
And so we put into motion theplans for this public hearing
that took place in 1986. So thiswas November 1985. In 1986, we

(30:22):
finally had the hearing, but itdid derail those regulations for
a little bit.
I met for the first time with asenator who became our main
sponsor for the next six orseven years for homeschooling.
All of that really began to setthose things in motion. But then
we had another public hearing in1987, and that's when Chris
Klicka from HSLDA came down forthe first time. Then in 1987,

(30:47):
1988, I got to know Mike Farrisvery well. He got very involved
in homeschooling along with DeeBlack who was another attorney
with HSLDA.
And they just fought court caseafter court case while I fought
legislative issue afterlegislative issue. And so then I
think in 1988 or '89, theystarted a national homeschool

(31:11):
conference that continues tothis day. And so then that's
when I really began to knowhomeschool leaders from around
the country and to go and hearthese people talk about things
that were happening to them. Alot of people didn't have
problems. North Carolina,Georgia, two states that
bordered us, no problem.
There were some states that weregreat, other states like South

(31:34):
Carolina. The landscape in SouthCarolina, if you're a CS Lewis
fan, it was like Narnia. It wasalways winter and never
Christmas.

And, you know, before we turn the video on to
hit record, you were sharingthat just this last year, there
were seven different legislativeproblems that came up
nationwide. It might be helpfulfor us to have an understanding
of what types of things are thestate organizations and everyone
who's fighting forhomeschooling, what type of

(32:04):
legislative issues are coming upthat are threatening our
homeschooling freedoms?

Zan Tyler (32:08):
Well, for the first time, I would say in two
decades, maybe, maybe longerthan that, we are seeing
substantial threats tohomeschool freedom. That's why I
always say, the only way forevil to triumph is for good men
to do nothing. And I may havejust butchered that quote. But
the fact is that freedom issomething that requires eternal

(32:30):
vigilance. You know, I've heardpeople say, oh, Zane, there's so
many homeschoolers now.
That means there'll be no morethreats to homeschooling. That
is a bunch of junk. Do notbelieve that lie. The more of us
that there are, the biggertarget we have in our back. So
this year in Virginia, greathomeschool laws.
They have a religious exemptionthat people can sign up for, and

(32:53):
it's very easy to homeschool,you know, under the religious
exemption. For the first time,this was threatened. And it was
a real threat. And they spent acouple of months and had
thousands and thousands ofpeople show up at the state
house to beat this legislation.In Illinois, one of the best
states in the union forhomeschooling.

(33:13):
All of a sudden, they havechallenges to homeschooling that
are requiring things that havenever been required in Illinois
that died at the end of thesession. But it was a real
threat and a hard fight. I justtalked to my friend Roe in New
Jersey. She was on my mind onemorning. I called her.
She said, how did you hear aboutthis? I said, hear about what?

(33:34):
Well, they had one bad billdefeated, I think the May in New
Jersey, but a new one that wasintroduced that would require
homeschooling families to meetwith a designee of the local
school superintendent who waseither a social worker, a nurse,
not a teacher. And this was,quote, the opportunity for

(33:55):
homeschooling parents to findout what support they could get
from their school district. Runthe other way.
Do not get your help withhomeschooling from your local
school district. And the otherthing was they had to bring
their children so that therecould be a well check of every
child who is homeschooling. Thisis the most heinous, egregious

(34:16):
homeschooling bill I've seencome to the forefront in thirty
years. That is terrible. Therewere threats in Minnesota.
There was a threat inConnecticut that has a great
law. These weren't backdoorchallenges. These were just
challenges, an affront tohomeschool freedom and parental
rights.

Yeah. I mean, talk about presumptive guilt. My
goodness.

Zan Tyler (34:39):
Yes. That's exactly what it is. Presum and
especially in Connecticut. Andthere's a great we've got so
many great supreme courtdecisions. This is the hundredth
anniversary of Pierce versussociety of sisters in 1925 that
said the child is not the merecreature of the state.
Well, that is foundational. Butthen there's another one, and I

(35:00):
don't have this right at myfingertips, that was built on
the Pierce versus a Society ofSisters that said it's repugnant
to Western civilization toassume that because some parents
abuse their children, allparents are. That was the basis
of the Connecticut bill. Therewas abuse in one situation,
which we all are against. We'reall against truancy.

(35:21):
We're all against child abuse.That's why there are laws on the
record already to take care ofthose things. But for them to
presume that we're all guiltybecause one person was, it is
presumptive guilt like youtalked about. That is not the
presumption of innocence untilproven guilty.

Absolutely. And it's also assuming that no abuse
happens in the schools, and weactually know the statistics of
major abuse of all kinds

Zan Tyler (35:47):
happens in

the schools. And to the point where even things
like bullying are just not evenconsidered abusive because
they're just so normalized.

Zan Tyler (35:56):
Yeah.

Here's the thing that really just fires me up.
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(36:18):
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It does all the teaching andgrading so you don't have to and
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(36:39):
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You've poured love, time, andattention into their education,
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(37:02):
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(37:22):
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Go to learningrx.com or clickthe link in the show notes. For
listeners listening today,you're thinking like, well,
okay. Well, the state just wantsto make sure that everybody all
kids are getting an education.Here's the problem when you're
not deschooled. Right?

(37:43):
We don't believe in the system.We don't want the state
standards. We want a differentway. It's literally the point.
So when we have legislators whodon't understand homeschooling,
right, they don't understand thedifferent pedagogies that there
are maybe better ways to educateand raise a child than what the
school system offers, then theyare trying to impose their view

(38:05):
of an education, what aneducation even is, the mere
definition of an education.
They're imposing that onhomeschooling parents and
basically transforming us intosubjects of the state who are
executing public school at home.And Right. That's why this is so
egregious and what seems likesomething very minor like a

(38:27):
check-in or even this year, k, Ihomeschool legally. I homeschool
in Colorado. This was a testingyear.
Oh, man. I gave my kids theirstandardized test. I was kicking
and screaming. Kicking andscreaming. Right?
Because I'm looking at thatstandardized test, and I'm
thinking not only have I justnot taught this particular thing
yet, I'll get to it. Right?Every kid's gonna learn a semi

(38:48):
co We're crying out loud. Butlike right? But don't hold my
I'm not even homeschooling tothis test, but I have to turn
this stupid thing in and just tocheck off a box that I'm
homeschooling legally and sothey can keep track of us when
I'm not I don't even agree withthe state standards or anything.
That's why this is so egregiousbecause the more they creep into

(39:10):
our homeschooling rights, themore we're gonna have to
homeschool just like publicschool. By the way

Zan Tyler (39:16):
Let me tell you. I believe that the misuse and
abuse of standardized testing isI mean, I believe that is abuse.
We went through that in SouthCarolina. We used to have to
take our kids to the publicschool to be tested. And boy, do
I have a story about that.
But it wasn't to see where thekids are doing well and where
they need to shore it up. It wasto determine whether I could

(39:38):
homeschool the next year. That'san abuse of standardized
testing, and to me that istotally unacceptable.

Yes. Yeah. And my youngest who didn't really
understand, right, this was herfirst time doing a bubble test,
she actually said, like, if Idon't do well, will they not let
us homeschool? That fear shouldnot be in a child's mind.
Absolutely.
That almost makes me wanna cry.

Zan Tyler (40:01):
So when we started so this would have been our second
or third year of homeschooling.My son John, who is an attorney
now, actually he's chief legalcounsel for the State Department
of Education, homeschools hisfour kids. But he couldn't read.
He was I had a late birthday,September 29 birthday. He knew
his phonics.
So my friend who was the PhDsaid, well, Zane, I'll just

(40:23):
appeal to the superintendent oror the school board. They won't
make John test if they knowyou've done a good job, and he's
just not ready to read yet. Oh,no. John had to be tested. So I
had to take him into a publicschool room where he couldn't
read a word and have a test thatwould determine whether he could
be homeschooled next year.

(40:44):
And so this was really, I guessif you wanna talk about a
watershed moment for me, thiswas it. I went out, I bought
test prep material for John. AndI showed him, I said, John, this
is what it's gonna look likewhen they give you this booklet.
I mean, he's a smart kid. And Isaid, you see all these
questions on the left and thenthe bubble sheet on the right.

(41:07):
You keep your head down and youcount to five. One, two, three,
four, five for number one. Andthen you come over to number one
and you circle in any letter youwant to. You go to number two,
you pretend like you're readingnumber two, count to five, come
back, mark any bubble you want.Now why am I doing this, mommy?
You my husband, Joe, he'shilarious. We used to do lots of

(41:27):
skits with the kids. I said,this is a skit. You're just
pretending like you can readlike everybody else does. And so
John goes to take this test thatdetermines our future, and I'm a
wreck.
You know, I'm brave for him, butI'm a wreck. I would go back to
my parent my in law's house. Andevery day, I would fast and pray
and cry. And I just asked theLord to blind the school

(41:50):
districts to John's test scores.So six weeks later, I get the
test scores in the mail.
I finally bring myself to lookat them. John has a ninety ninth
percentile in everything. Andso, I mean, I'm talking to the
Lord about this. I'm saying, didyou just whisper the letters in
his ear? And then I realizedthere are two Johnny Tylers in

(42:12):
our very little neighborhood,and they picked up the wrong
ones.
And and they said, of course youcan homeschool next year, miss
Tyler. Look at these testscores. And so then John, the
next year goes in and he's doinggreat and does great on the
standardized test. And he comesout and he says, mommy, you
cannot believe how much easierit is to take a test when you
can read what's on it. But youknow, what we went through, to

(42:36):
me, that is horrible.
It is awful. It is awful when aschool district uses a test in a
way it's not designed to beused.

Yeah. It's weaponized.

Zan Tyler (42:44):
Mhmm. It is. You know, John Taylor Gottow wrote a
book, Methods of MassInstruction. No. Weapons of Mass
Instruction.
Sorry. It took me a minute. And,yes. And I think that's one of
them.

And didn't you meet him?

Zan Tyler (42:59):
I did. I had the most glorious two hour interview with
him. I found this handwrittennote he wrote me afterwards. I
put it on my little bulletinboard in the laundry room. I was
when we had to use thoserecording devices, you know,
with the little cassette tapes.
I have lost the cassette tapewith my interview for So one

(43:19):
day, you know, I've decided intwenty years when I go to an
assisted living facility, I'mgonna take all my pictures and
all the little cassette tapesand just go through them all.

Oh, I love it. Yes. Oh, man. I would love. Can
you even imagine if there's,like, the lost interview with

Zan Tyler (43:36):
John Calagato. I know. Oh, it just makes me so
sad. I'm just so glad I foundthe letter from him. Yeah.

Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah. That's
absolutely incredible. And andhere and here's the last thing
that I think in landing theplane on homeschooling rights
here and why it's so egregiouswhen the state tries to impose
and tell us what to do and tellus what curriculum is the
assumption that they're doing agood job themselves.

(44:04):
Go to Nation's report card.Don't go to a homeschooling
source. Go to Nation's reportcard and see that basically half
of the fourth graders in ourcountry cannot read. Look at the
math scores. And then you'regonna try to come to me and tell
me that I I can't do this?
Excuse me. Right? And so I thinkthat's why it's so important for

(44:26):
us homeschooling families tounderstand that that it's people
like you who have built thefoundation for our homeschooling
rights and that it is our stateorganizations every single day
in the legislatures fighting forrights. One thing I love about
what you do, and maybe you canshare a a minute about this, is
you love to do capital days.What is a capital day?

Zan Tyler (44:49):
Oh my goodness. You can go to the website hslda.org.
I wrote an article, invest inhomeschool freedom, attend your
capital day. Every state shouldhave them. If they don't, start
one.
But it's just when homeschoolerscome together as a group, they
go to the capital. I speak atthem a lot around the country.
You can have a featured speaker,or you can have a legislator or

(45:12):
a governor or somebody from yourstate speak. And you just talk
about homeschool freedom. Youintroduce your kids.
You and your kids have a chanceto meet your own representative
and state senator if you havenot met them. And it is so
important for them to be able toput a face with the word
homeschooling. Because then it'snot just some nebulous idea.

(45:36):
It's Johnny or, you know,whoever it is because it was
some of those relationships thatwe made early on that really
changed the playing field whenthey get to know I I can't tell
you how many public or how manylegislative hearings I've sat
in. One in particular where theyjust really wanted to just get

(45:56):
rid of homeschooling.
And one senator from a county inSouth Carolina had the guts to
stand up and say, well, Ithought the same thing too until
a homeschool family invited meinto their home to see what they
were doing and have dinner withthem. And I just have to tell
you, that's what we all want ourkids to be like. They were well
mannered. They were welleducated. They loved each other.

(46:19):
I mean, he said it was prettymuch it it just changed his mind
on the whole issue. So as I haveinterviewed legislators around
the country, they say it's theonly time at their state capitol
buildings that they see wholefamilies together. So go to your
homeschool organization website.You can go to

(46:39):
homeschoolfreedom.com and findyour state organization and find
out who has capital days. Ithink hslda.org also has a
section for state organizations.
But every organization out thereis there to be the gatekeeper
for your freedom, for homeschoolfreedom. And Capital Days, it is

(47:01):
the most to me, it's the mostimportant field trip you'll ever
take to begin to show yourchildren what government looks
like and how we, the people, arethe true government.

Absolutely. And it's it's just so vital that we
are involved. And, you know, alot of homeschool families,
especially in the economy rightnow, we're strapped financially.
But something that I often sayis what we can give is our time.
We can show up.
We can bring our families tothose capital days. It is so
important, as you said, peoplewho don't homeschool that are

(47:36):
the decision makers over ourlives, they should know us, and
they should know us really well,and they should know our kids.
Because and I forgive me forquoting. I think it's Brene
Brown. Forgive me.
But she's right. It's reallyhard to hate somebody up close.
You know? And it's just true.

Zan Tyler (47:53):
That is true. Mike Ferris was down working on an
issue with us, and he had wasthe president at the time of
Homeschool Legal DefenseAssociation. And so he asked
this legislator, what do youthink about this homeschooling
issue? He said, I I don't thinkabout it as an issue. I think
how is this gonna affect Joe andZantyler?
And so that is really how wewant our legislators thinking

(48:15):
because we are not trying tomanipulate the system. We are
just participating in the systemas it's been provided to us.

Absolutely. And we're exercising our freedoms.

Zan Tyler (48:25):
Our absolutely. Our state's rights, our parental
rights, our constitutionalrights, you name it.

Absolutely. Thank you, Zan, for sharing your
remarkable story today, which isa story of unmatched courage,
conviction, and calling. Andyou, my dear friend, it's an
honor to call you a friend. Youchanged the landscape of
homeschooling for generations tocome, and we can't thank you
enough. Your faith, grit, andperseverance remind us that the

(48:54):
freedoms that we enjoy todaywere hard won, and they're not
to be taken for granted.
To every mom listening, ifyou've ever doubted whether what
you're doing matters, let thisbe your reminder. Your ordinary
days of loving, teaching, andleading your children are
shaping futures and preservingthe legacy that women like Zan

(49:14):
fought to protect. You, my dearfriends, are not just
homeschooling. You are part of amassive movement to build strong
grounded families. So takeheart, press on, and know that
you are never alone.
You are part of something somuch bigger, and you were made
for this. Thank you so much,Zan, for coming on the show

(49:36):
today.

Zan Tyler (49:36):
Oh, Christy, it was an honor to be here. Thank you
so much.

You have my heart.

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Ep. 77 - Zan Tyler: The Homeschool Pioneer Who Faced Jail For Her Kids

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 77 - Zan Tyler: The Homeschool Pioneer Who Faced Jail For Her Kids