Seeing the Light with Robby Kurtz

Would you read a Hog Two's entire manual over the weekend to be Natalie Cole's lighting director? 



Robby Kurtz was thrown to the wolves on his first show, but he ran with the pack, used his skills across the globe, and became New Life Church's LD right before Christmas. 



He has done the lights for Natalie Cole & Jesus Culture, worked in TV and his 6 truths and a lie segment has some adrenaline-pumping stories. 

In this episode you'll hear: 

• 1:38 The stickiest piece of gear we’ve ever bought
• 6:34 We introduce Robby Kurtz with his death-defying truths and lies.
• 11:10 John 3:16 > Border Security 
• 12:45 A fifteen person van is carried by the Lord
• 15:02 Learning the Hog Two lighting board on the fly to be Natalie Cole’s LD.  
• 19:40 How he nearly got fired on his first two shows 
• 22:36 The difficulties of being a Christian on the road 
• 26:34 Lighting Journeyman: trade shows, Daystar Television network, video editing
• 29:30 Becoming the LD for New Life Church right before Christmas
• 31:00 Do churches own all the fog machines they use at Christmas & Easter? 
• 33:50 How 4Wall serves churches with gear rentals 
• 37:00 Encouragement for current church lighting directors 
• 40:32 Robby’s top 5 albums of all time 
• 42:42 Tech Takeaway on the best place to place your lights in your service

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Episode Transcript

Unknown (00:00):
BLAKE What was the stickiest piece of gear we've
ever gotten in a shop? No, no,no, no, no, no, no.
Welcome to the church gearpodcast where we pull the tech
director out of the booth andonto the stage to share the most
outlandish stories and hiddenwisdom from the tech trenches.

(00:21):
And now, here are your hosts.
I'm your host, Blake Hodges, aman who knows what happens to
gear when it melts. And I'm herewith your other co host, the
only man stronger than he man,Toby Walters.
Oh, he man, that is a throwbackright there.
I thought that one would get youloved him in

(00:41):
in the 80s when I was growingup, and I remember playing with
him in action figures likehaving them hanging off the door
handle and such.
Yes, yeah, I was like, How do Iget a pop culture reference
that's really going to resonate?
I mean, did you have to googlethat? Or did you know he man I
knew of him. I knew strong dude.
Barely any close something withsome lightning strikes and a
sword. That's he was kind of onCartoon Network at like, back in

(01:05):
my day. So okay,here's your other pop quiz.
Then. Waita minute. I just passed. I don't
want to take another one.
You only have passed? Who washe? Man's female counterpart?
Man, I look like a sexist jerk.
I don't remember her name. Idon't know. Who is it?
Shira she. So on the subject ofsheara. Now, it actually has

(01:26):
absolutely nothing to do withthat. And going back to our
opening of the stickiest pieceof gear we've ever received.
What is it like?
So this was very early on, in mytime at church gear, it was a
moving light. And it just waslike you picked it up and you
weren't moving anywhere with it.
Because it was stuck to yourhands forever, like this is
yours now go forth and take itso early on in church gear.

(01:49):
Because we've you know, we'vebeen going a few years now we
buy gear from, you know, audio,video, lighting all the
categories, but very early on,we hadn't bought in any moving
lights yet. So a church in theNashville area actually, who
will remain unnamed. And theysaid, Hey, we've got a whole
bunch of elation. 570 fives mostof which work now, Blake, we've

(02:12):
heard this many times. And forall our tech directors listening
out there, when you tell us thatmost of your moving lights work.
Fool me once Fool me twice, butno more. You may not be
intentionally lying to us, welove you. But they
just don't work. It's justmoving lights very specifically,

(02:33):
we had to I don't. We're verypicky about them now because
they just they don't work orthey're sticky. And there's only
so many times I can you know,use a whole pack of baby wipes
to wipe my hands clean.
And we have yet to invest in afire hose. But that may be the
next step. Or maybe a carwash.
Maybe we could like run themthrough a carwash. I
bet even if you did that youcould not get the stick off.

(02:53):
They definitely wouldn't workanymore. That'd be a very pretty
car wash. You could run them allin at once. Light them all up,
do a whole show. I'm sure thatwould work.
So this church contacted us andthey said, Hey, we've got all
these elation. 570 fives and wealso have this DiGiCo s 21 Oh,
and I'm like, Oh, well, we'lltake the DiGiCo and if you're
gonna sell this to DiGiCo Yeah,we'll make you an offer on the

(03:15):
lights as well. So we puttogether the offer. And then the
church said, Well, we're gonnago ahead and hold on to the
DiGiCo but you're gonna get thelights. And Mike Awesome. Okay,
so I mean, it's in town, likethese are still good lights.
They're still, you know, justone generation old at this
point. And we want to help outwe totally we want to work with

(03:36):
any church we can. So I take ourvan over to the church, meet the
check director, and we he pointsout all the lights and I grabbed
the first one and oh my gosh,it's it's super sticky.
This was the day that I learnedwhat tacky. Tacky is also like
tack,Yeah, cuz we, you know, when
selling these things, we don'twant to necessarily say they are

(03:57):
horribly sticky. We just saythey're tacky. Oh, man, you
know, just like that's what areyou order Christmas service.
These are tacky as well.
That's right. Now I've learnedlike there were reasons that
lights get sticky. And it I'dactually experienced this with
the old Digidesign control 24DAW control surface. And Blake,

(04:19):
I could show you a picture ofthis board, you'd be like, Oh, I
recognize that. Oh, okay. Butthe sides of it are made with
the same kind of plastic. Andwhat happens is this plastic
like degrades over time andbecome sticky. And you stop
using that. So I bought one ofthose digital design boards
years ago and it was in a guystudio who had cats.

(04:39):
Oh, no. So you come in to getblamed for this too aren't the
only person in the company thathas cats? I think it Yeah, it's
just creepy. Blake,what can I say? They're just so
much low maintenance than dogs.
So we load up all these lightsand you know, we get them back
and we test them and you knowhalf of them work. Half of them
needed some help and we wereable to get most of them fixed
up and working again, which isgreat and I think we spent like

(05:02):
two or three hours on one ofthem just trying to get the
stick offwell because like in good
conscience I'm thinking if Idon't want to pick this up, I'm
not selling it either. And soone whole pack of baby wives
later.
Yeah, at that point we justsaid, Okay, we're gonna have to
advertise these a sticky there'sno way around it. So I, you know
it took a while for me to think.
Didn't Blake you have a parttime job as a church janitor?
Once upon a time? Idid. Because I think everyone

(05:25):
even as we've continued to grow,I think everyone can kind of say
they like if they if theyweren't a church tech director,
they still worked at a churchfor a time and I did work for a
church as a janitor for twoyears in high school.
So I mean, did your church doyou ever have to clean moving
lights in your church? I wouldthink like as a church, Jana,
they're like, look, andespecially you being the high

(05:46):
school kid. It's like, Look,buddy, these things are sticky.
Clean them up.
You'd be surprised I actuallyhad something much worse. It was
take all of the trash out fromthe preschool wing to the
sanctuary. And that was a lottrash. I actually never had to
clean moving light. I got lucky.
Blake, I hate to break it toyou. But don't say it was your
church, where you were thejanitor that sold me the sticky

(06:11):
lights.
I knew this was somehow gonnabecome my fault. And it's
honestly this is so poetic. Thisis so poetic. That's where they
came from. I really don'tremember the moving lights. But
look, I was moving trash takingtrash to the dumpster. Maybe I
spelt it one time. Who knows?
But,and I didn't realize this until
after I hired you. So I hate tobreak it to you on this episode.
But you're so fired.

(06:31):
And that's all she wrote, folks.
I'm out. But I'm back in becausesomeone has to introduce our
guest. He has worked in TV,concert tours, trade shows, and
in church for a time. He'stoured all over the world. He
was stopped at the border of theUS and was not let in because he
couldn't quote John 316 Oh mygosh, what border is he? If this
is a border and Alabama I wantthis to be Oh, okay. That was

(06:54):
good. I want this to be thetruth. I was a luggage driver
for Neil Diamond.
Well, that Sweet Caroline. Okay.
Wait, pause pause Blake. Do youknow who Neil Diamond is?
So I'm not okay.
Did Neil Diamond was for aprevious guest said he was

(07:15):
working with Neil Diamond. Solet me say the truth. My mind
these are microseconds in mybrain first thought was, oh,
that's the guy that sells thediamonds on The Bachelor like,
oh my god, they give away thediamonds to the contestants. And
then I went no, that's not it.
Again, microseconds seconds.
Sending audience Blake atchurch. gear.com is his email.
Please send him shameful,shameful letters I just told you

(07:38):
out.
You know what, that's fine.
We'll see what happens. Secondmicro thought, Neil. I was like,
Oh, this is that diamond guy.
You got a friend of the diamondbusiness, the Nashville ads. And
after all that, I then didremember that Neil Diamond was a
singer, so I had to get there.
Do you know the song SweetCaroline.
Oh, yeah, totally.
That's the old diamond.
Thankfully, Ihad a buddy who dated a girl

(08:00):
named Carolyn and so I know thatsong. Let's see going back to
our guest. I was jumped a 15passenger van off the freeway. I
was once blackballed with acustomer for having a beer on my
off time at a bowling alley. Iwas at bowling.
Was that like, Southern BaptistChurch? Man,

(08:21):
I have been in a lighting andproduction. I've been in
lighting productionprofessionally for 23 years.
There's no way he's that old.
Now. Introducing Robbie Kurtz.
Hey, guys. Thanks for having me.
Thanks for coming on, Robbie.
Yeah, I think you win for thelike, craziest collection of
possible truths and a lie.
There's there has been a goodbit of like good ones. But like

(08:44):
you almost all of yours arepretty gold. Oh my gosh.
I mean, let's just take off theI've been in lighting and
production for 23 years if thatsays lie. Do you really think
he's that old? Oh, I know howold he is. Okay. Yeah.
All right. Well, we'll take itoff.
I mean, you see he has salt andpepper in his in his thigh do
Yeah,I should have clean shave z but
he still has hair.
Soand I know he's been around the

(09:04):
lighting industry for a longtime. Okay,
I'm gonna actually I'm ready toknock off that he was
blackballed by customer having abeer. I bet that was true.
That's true,too. Yep. And Southern Baptist
Church. Probably with a janitorthat doesn't clean sticky lights
either.
Probably so I want jumped a 15passenger van off the freeway.

(09:26):
Does that mean likewas he driving and it was this
like Dukes of Hazzard style.
Alright, yeah,I want clarification. Tell us
Yeah, this is a lie. But thenyour mind this scenario with
true or not? It's like goingairborne for a little so it was
airborne for a little bit, butit was it was off of like, I
didn't realize that it was theend of the freeway. Okay, so I
have a cousin and insurance hewill not insure like 12 Wait,

(09:48):
wait, wait,wait. He just told us. It was a
scene from speed the movie withKeanu Reeves. But he'll say that
jumps off the end of the freeway, so I'm a little suspicious
now. I mean, with Sandra Bullockin the passenger seat with you,
we'll find out. Okay. Well, wewill.
That was a good catch. Okay.
Well, I was gonna say that couldbe true, but All right, let's

(10:10):
keep it for a second. I'm goingto take off the luggage driver
for Neil Diamond. I bet he didthat. That sounds random.
That is very oddly specific. SoI feel like it's true.
toured all over the world.
That's kind of subjective. If heYeah, let's take it off. Okay.
Worked in TV and churches andtrade shows. Yeah, you can get
me with that one. So really washe stopped at the border of the

(10:31):
US because he couldn't quoteJohn 316? Or did he jump a 15?
And is that story mixed with thebeer story? Like, could he not
quote John 316? Because he's toogood. A good Christian boy.
Okay. All right. I am going tosay I'm here. Let's split the
difference. So one of us atleast is right, I'm gonna go the

(10:51):
van because my cousin has toldme how people, you won't insure
them. Because people that drivethem are so inexperienced, it's
just barely over the limit whereyou can still legally drive
without a license, and peoplecrush them all the time. All
right, I'll say the US border.
John 316. Tell us Robbie.
So the lie is just is actuallypart of the John 316 story. I
actually did have to say John316 at the border of El Paso to

(11:16):
get in. Because the guy didn'tbelieve me.
Do you look Hispanic? Well, no.
So the issue was I flew down towork with this church, like in
the middle of Mexico, and theyhad to drive me back because
they couldn't fly me in. Andwhen they did, I was I got food
poisoning from like a taco cart.
At this place. It was supergenuine. So I was feeling super
rough. And I had my sunglasseson. He's like, hey, you know,

(11:38):
pull up the board. He's like, hebeen partying a lot high. You
know, it's like those were somewearing sunglasses. And I took
them I was like, no, no, sir.
I'm just not feeling well. Youknow, I got a headache. He's
like, Man, you've been doingbeen to Colombia? What were you
doing there? I was like, oh, youknow, I toured with this
Christian band. And we werethere is like, South Africa. Was
that the same thing? You werejust touring with a with a what

(12:00):
was this? a worship band? It waslike, yeah, yeah, he was a
Christian band thing. What wereyou doing in Brazil was like,
Well, I you know, I was with aChristian band. I was like, he
tells me John 316 right now. Andso I told him and he's like,
alright, alright, you can go.
And so that was it. Let methrough.
So you did have to quote it, butI did have to quote when but
they did. Let me know. And whichtranslation did you use? I mean,

(12:20):
that'sthe message that I was like, Yo,
G was like, the sunglasses on.
I had to use the message. Dang.
So Toby wins that one weekProject Tracker,
these I mean, I'm, you know thisnow I'm usually right. Okay,
tell me this. Let's skip overthat was the passenger van from
that movie speed or whatever.
No, actually, it was. So we werein Houston. And it was one of

(12:41):
these like, super wide freewayshad like six lanes. And we were
trying to get this guy to a toget pick up a prescription for
his back because he was like,his back was hurting. And I was
there with Daystar TelevisionNetwork. And we were doing a
thing down there. And sonobody's Buck buckled in the
back. We've got like six guysback there. And I see this. He's
like, hey, there's a place righthere. There's a place right

(13:01):
here. And so I just start movingover thinking like, this is a
frontage road. I can just getoff and and I'm looking over my
shoulder making sure that like,I'm not going to hit people's
and doing like like whoa, whoa,whoa, and I next thing I look
forward and we're going intothis concrete ditch and like a
45 degree angle and I literallywent in there stuff the tire so
hard, we got air and then welike we were up in the air and

(13:22):
everybody's kind of floatingover me and then and then we
came down and like slammed onthe curb. And and and then I was
on the frontage road. And sothen like we just did you live
to tell about it. We did I justhad to rip one piece little
plastic off and the car wasfine, man. Yeah. So you are a
living legend. Because the HolySpirit kept you from being a
insurance claim. That is insane.

(13:46):
Yeah, the guy that needed theback stuff though. His back was
really hurting after that. So itwas like it was like, oh,
because either you popped itright back into place, or you
madeit. No, I don't feel terrible.
Robbie. I'min awe. And I'm very I'm never
encarsia I'm so terrified. Butlike, you're amazing that you
pulled that off, bro.
Thanks. I was so glad we didn'tlay it down. And we didn't drag

(14:09):
through thehow long driving after that. Did
you have to like let the youknow the hype kind of fade out
of your body.
I'm pretty much pulled overright away. And we all just kind
of got a breather. And I waslike, oh goodness, I
can't believe that you have andis this where the beer comes
into the story? No, that wasI was actually working as a
freelancer for Daystar after Ihad left Daystar Television
Network, which was like aChristian Network like they're

(14:30):
essentially like the team, thesorry, they're like the rival of
for TBN or God TV or whatever.
And it was in Dallas. But I waswith a bunch of people that work
there. We went bowling and I hadI had one beer while I was
there. And and then it got backto Marx and Joni lamb and then
they never brought me back. Iwas blacklisted. Man, that's

(14:51):
a bummer. Yeah,that is rough. Did Jesus not
drink alcohol? You know,I'm not sure that he had beer. I
think he never had a pilsner.
You know, just and especially atthe bowling alley,
I get it. So Robbie, you're 23years in lighting and
production, kind of give us the,you know, 30,000 foot overview,
like where to start. And whatare you doing now?
You know, so right out of highschool, I was going to try go to

(15:14):
college, I tried twice, and tono avail. We've met a lot of
you, yes. Dropped out bothtimes, I was sleeping in class
and stuff. I just wasn't I justwasn't into school. And I was
going because, you know, that'swhat they were telling you how
to do if you were going to besomething, right. And so I was
doing like steel fabricationworking at a rebar place and

(15:35):
lost my job because of this isliving in California at the
time. And so, you know, wedidn't have rain a lot, there
was so much rain this this,there was the El Nino year, you
know, well, and, and so, becauseof that, like the freeways, they
couldn't do any work. And so allof the rebar stuff dried up. And
so I got laid off, and I wasengaged to be married this

(15:55):
right, I'm sorry. No punintended. Yeah, perfect. And,
um, and so at 19 years old, Iwere engaged, going to be
married, and I don't have a job.
And so I really hadn't, I'dstarted helping out at our
church in the youth group. I waslike, I would help lead worship
and stuff. And then they neededhelp with sound. So I started

(16:17):
kind of doing some sound stuff.
But then everybody wanted to bea sound guy, but nobody was
touching the lighting and thegels were falling out, you know,
a lot of the lamps were burnedout, the stage was getting dark,
I was like, hey, I'll get upthere, I'll start fixing it. And
so that was kind of where Ifound that I enjoyed the, the
lighting piece, the creativepiece of it as well, as well as
like working with my hands andthat piece of it. So from there,

(16:39):
I applied to work for thecompany that it was called Live
light in Fresno, California atthe time. And, and then I was
just a shop guy. And that waspretty much it for for about six
months, I walked in one day,most of our guys were off doing
this Home Depot show and theowner asked me hey, they would
so they wouldn't let me use thebig dog moving like console at

(17:00):
the time, and they wouldn't letme tell you we're shopping.
Right? Exactly. They wanted meto learn the ropes before they
like put me you know, it wasnice, because it wasn't like you
move all the way to the front.
You know, you've got to work yougot to you got to do a lot. Do
your time here first, you know.
And so I learned a ton fromthese guys. They were really
great. A lot of a lot ofexperience. And so he said, Hey,

(17:21):
you think you can learn a wholehog to which was like the big
desk of the time? We were thehog. Hey,
like do you know the hog? Yeah,it's the red hogs the Washington
football teams new name.
So it's the road hog. It's theyou know, the stepchild of the
grandma, but it's competingcompanies. Actually,
I do feel like I've heard usmention that, that we've had
road hogs in the shop before. Soit's always fun to see what

(17:42):
Blake doesn't know. So anytimeyou want to just ask Blake, do
you? Do you understand whatwe're talking about? I might
sneak one in though. Andsuddenly I didn't know. So he
nods and smiles a lot.
Well, the hog two was like bombdiggity back then ma had just
started to come out as well. Butwe were a hog house. So we had
all the hog to stuff. Obviously.
It was everything was on a threeand a half inch floppy back
then. So that's how you savedyour shift. That's

(18:04):
right. Hey, like, what's thethree and a half inch floppy?
I do know what a floppy disk is.
Yeah, it was like a storagesaver thing that you'd put in
your computer. And it was Imean, it was had a tiny little
case close enough. Just right.
Be minus Yeah, yeah.
Well, anyway, all that to say, Icame in, he said, Hey, can you
learn a hog two in two weeks?
And I was like, Well, I don'tknow maybe why he's like, Well,
does it matter? I was like,Well, I guess not you no matter.

(18:27):
He's like, Well, you could beNatalie Cole's new LD I was
like, All right, well, so then Ijust took a lighting console
home and I had one lightingfixture. And then I just walked
through the manual and tried todo all the things that told me
to do at my alma kitchen tableand how old are you at this
point? I was gosh, I would havebeen 20. Okay, still engaged is
still actually yeah. engaged,almost married, I think. Okay,

(18:52):
and we I got married and thenessentially I went on tour with
Natalie Cole for a year and Iwas gone about six or seven
months of our first yearboilers so that actually works
so like you went through thewhole manual. That is
fascinating to me. Like do youreally go through the whole
thing?
I did. I love manuals. Oh,that's like one of the only
books I can finish. And there'sno YouTube back then. No, there

(19:12):
wasn'tRobbie, you were one of my
favorite people now in betweenwrecking the van but not dying
at all. actually reading themanual only person who has done
that. That's amazing. Okay, soit says now do this hold pig
press this.
You know, like it was like oh,okay, big. Do you think
if I read a manual over theweekend, I could do the hug a
manual for what Blake for thehardline? Totally

(19:32):
No. Okay, not a chance. I meanenough to be able to like make
something turn red. My first twoshows were really rough. And I
thought at that year, I wasgonna get fired. It did. Okay.
So I love the guy. He's actuallynot in lighting anymore because
now he's a he's an influencer onAmazon. But this guy Craig
Paulson. That was he's a greatguy. But he was 22 and he had

(19:53):
been doing lighting far longerthan I had. He had been at this
company since he was like 16And, and he was doing the
Natalie Cole thing, but he quitand left. And so I was filling
this position. And it wasbecause the lighting company
wanted to try and keep the gearrental. So they didn't want to
lose that. But I was workingdirectly for Natalie Cole. I
see. I see this makes sensebusiness wise. So you know what

(20:14):
I mean? So it was like this. Shewas going on her 25th
anniversary tour. And it wasalways very lights and
everything cuz we were verylight dealer back then, which I
mean, that's a bigger story, butall that to say. We went he they
said, Hey, here's Craig showfile. All you got to do is get
through these two shows. We'redoing one to Stockton and San
Francisco and thenStockton, Yo, dude, then your

(20:36):
garden wasn't asbad as it is now. Now it's even
worse. But like, yeah, it's It'sdefinitely like, it's bad. But
um, we, he said, Just getthrough these two shows. And
then we're actually going to gointo a programming design phase.
We're bringing in a professionalprogrammer, we know that you're
a little green, like, this willbe okay. And we're going to do

(20:56):
in Vegas. There's gonna berehearsals for a week. It's
like, okay, at that Caesars, youknow? Like, sure, that's great.
I can get through this. So, butthere's like 80 moving lights,
and I've never run anything likeanything close to that big. And
I've never been on this rigbefore. How many of those were
sticky? Robbie,I literally was wanting to ask,
because I wanted to know ifyou've ever encountered that as

(21:16):
well, if it was just I haveencountered sticky lights on the
handles though. Because like,the entire
casings were sticky on me. Okay,no, never, never seen that.
Okay, anyways, at movinglights at moving lines. And the
guy that was setting this up,was kind of new. So it took him
kind of all day, and he was newto and so I didn't really have
any time to go through the show.

(21:41):
And I was just trying to updatefocus positions, because I was
new at that. And so I didn'tknow hardly anything. So when it
comes time for doors, and Ihaven't even had a chance to
walk through these cue lists.
Well, when I get into it, all ofthe naming was gone. Craig it
intentionally removed all thenames so that I couldn't use the
show file just to mess with you.
Or it was well he's like, Man,I'm not gonna use my show file.

(22:04):
This is after the fact. I waslike, dude, like, what was the
deal? He's like, Man, I'm notgoing to just let you use my
work. I was like, so anyway, itwas rough. So you know, we're
going into a slow song and I'mhitting go and it's like, with
yellow and gold and flashy andmovie. And I was like, oh, like
I was it was a train wreck. AndI had the guy just cussing in my
ear. I thought for sure I wasfired. And they didn't fire me.

(22:27):
I was with them for a year. Weyou hadn't drank in a beer yet?
No. Yeah, no one. Ididn't. I might need one after
that show, though. Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
That was actually one group. Iwas really back then. Like, I
mean, I was 20. So I didn'tdrink but at the same time, and
just to be frank now I don't nowbut I there was there was a
period where I you know, I'dhave a beer here and there. But

(22:50):
But on that one on that tourspecifically, I was really
careful to like stay away fromall that because all the people
that went were on the tourwanted me to do all of the bad
things. Right. So you're newlymarried. Yeah, exactly. And and
I'm trying to like I'm trying toto be a Christian on the road
with all these folks that, youknow, are old road dogs. And it
was interesting.

(23:10):
How difficult was that? Becausewe've heard the stories and
like, quite honestly, I believemost things in life to be
overhyped. And so when I finallytalked to a couple people who
like could tell me some of thestories. They were even worse
than what they had been hyped tome as I was blown away at how
crazyit gets, you know, well, it was
Natalie Cole. So it wasn't like,you know, Motley Crue or
something. But like, so, I mean,she was a lot of fun to work

(23:32):
with. So shedidn't open for motley crew. I
mean, no one assumed they wouldtear those
did actually open once for TonyBennett. And that was pretty
cool. Because like, that makessense. Boy, yeah. Sounds like
Tony Bennett. This is awesome.
Yeah.
And Blake, do you know who TonyBennett is and a cute smile and
nod and so we don'ttake off Robbie's base. Do
you hear him every Christmas?
All right. And you hear herevery time you hear on

(23:52):
forgettable when she goes on?
Forget it. Oh, you know, anyway,so her dad was Nat King Cole. He
did all this. Okay, cool. Cool.
So she did like pink Cadillac,and all these others. Anyway,
all that to say, but we had afull orchestra on stage. And
like, there were there was apiano player to keyboardists you
know, it was it was a huge band,and it was a ton of fun. And so

(24:13):
but you know, it was okay, butthere was one too I remember
like I so back then like to callJoanna there were we had cell
phones were pretty new, like andthey were terribly expensive. So
having a cell phone in Europe tocall her like there was no like
international tradepre flip phone or did it? It was
this was the Nokialike 5150 or whatever you're

(24:33):
talking about with the littlewhite diagonal button like this
was like because this would havebeen you know what I mean? Yeah.
So and because you had to havethe international phone. I'm
saying that air quotes Yeah. Butlike back then because all
phones weren't International. Sothey would let us borrow it if
it was an emergency, but Ididn't have my own so I had a
calling card. But I had to havea payphone or a landline to use

(24:53):
it. You know the horse. Fine payphones back This time. That's
right. That's right. And sothat's how I could call her. So
it was hard to communicate withher. But there was one time I
was on the bus and like, I wasso thirsty, I just wanted some
water. And we had to do like a22 hour drive because we were
going so far it was in Europe.

(25:15):
And, and there was nothing onthere, but hard liquor, wine and
beer. And there were literallyno bottles of water. And it was
like, Yeah, that's a recipe fordisaster. Yeah, you know, so I
mean, that's just kind of howthey roll. Because every time
they'd finish at the greenroom,they would grab whatever's left
and throw it on the bus, youknow, total as it was paid for
essentially was for the band orfor whoever you know, that

(25:37):
stockpile makes sense. So then,how long did you do that? I'm
assuming you went from there tochurch lighting tech director
pretty quick, because you werelike, I gotta get off the road
and see my wife. I'm makingassumptions here based upon
storylines.
Yeah, so the assumption. Ididn't I actually, so I toured
for about a year and then I quitthinking I was probably gonna
get fired anyway, like I did.
Okay, Ilearned a ton over that period

(25:57):
of time, but I still wasn't thecaliber she needed at the like,
listen at the rate in which theythrew you in with a little nudge
that they had given you and justlike said, Hey, do this. And
also, we're not going to helpyou. It's amazing. You made it a
year, like without gettingfired. And then you walked away,
like nerves of steel.
Yeah, it was tons of travel,lots of different consoles. And

(26:18):
a lot of it was a lot of pay toplay dates where we were using
somebody else's show. And so Ihad to, like use somebody else's
console or, and so that was itwas interesting. I learned a lot
like it was really it was reallygood, really great from, you
know, for experience. But afterthat I went into trade shows, a
guy that I used to work withlimelight was doing tradeshow
work. And the reason I went thatdirection is because you were in

(26:41):
one location for weeks at a timeand I was like, Well, okay, this
is more beneficial for likefamily. So now I can fly. I can
fly my wife out when I'm therefor a period of time because she
was still going to college. Iwas like it's so we can least
see each other I'm not goinglike place to place to place to
place a place and soshe would lighting these trade
shows or you're selling lightsat
lighting the trade shows doinglike good question. It like

(27:03):
doing the lighting for boothslike Intel or Microsoft or three
calm or all those differenttypes of tech.
And you know, Bill Gates. Now,you would assume he'd be working
the booth at these trade showswho better to tell Microsoft
story than Bill Gates, yaknow, him and I used to talk
about how he was going to takeover the world. But we it's been
a while how lazy of him to notwork as I now. Know, lazy guy.

(27:26):
So where do you go from there?
From the tradeshow booths?
Where? What's the next gig?
Gosh, where did I go from there?
Oh, you know what I went fromtrade shows we left California
because we wanted to buy a houseand I just wasn't making enough
money out there. To be able todo that it was just too
expensive, because the company Iwas working for was in the East
Bay, like the San Francisco Bayarea. So we moved to Texas, just
cuz we knew someone out therethought we'd give it a go. And

(27:47):
what part of Texas Fort Worth,okay. So, and then I quit and
sold cars for like, six months.
got completely out of theindustry for a little while. And
then and then went back intowork in a Daystar television
network there. So I was workingfor a studio for like, I guess

(28:08):
it was like four and a halfyears and I helped with
lighting. I ran camera for everylive show. And every broadcast
we did and then there for awhile actually jumped completely
out of lighting and did videoediting solely for like a year
just to try something new. Andso then from there, we moved to
Colorado, just because we wantedto and that's when I went to

(28:29):
work for New Life church inColorado Springs, the mega
church and and I worked outthere for for four and a half
years, something like that.
Okay, soyou're out on the road, you go
to trade shows you're doing youknow, you're working for a
production company, and then youjump into church life. What is
like, and you're at a megachurch there? How does church
life differ from all the otherstuff you've done?

(28:55):
Um, man, it's a good question.
You know, I think the pace wasdifferent. For sure. It's, you
know, with with Daystar when Iwas there like that, that pace
was pretty brutal, because itwas like, Oh, hey, so and so's
in town, and we're gonna do amusic set tomorrow, and you have
to stay until it's done. Youknow, it's like, so we're just,
I don't care what it cost, dowhatever it pay whatever you
guys have to overtime, just getit done. Get it, but

(29:18):
it's not an issue. Ithas to be done. That's right.
Yeah. And so we did a lot. Sothere was there was a lot of
last minute stuff like that.
And, and it was just stressful.
It felt like it was a littlebipolar. That place was but at
New Life when I started. I wascoming right before Christmas.
Oh, no. Yeah. And they wereabout to do their big Christmas
production. And sodo you have to jump in I DLD I

(29:41):
did and you had to run thoseshows it Well,
essentially, we had to stilllike hang it, design it
programming and all of that. Andso there was a guy there. Great
guys got a guy named Evan. Hehad been volunteering for a long
time, and then they'd kind ofhired him. Then the two main
guys left and when they did heHe was he was the guy, but like
he still didn't really have muchexperience under his belt, you

(30:04):
know, and this is a buildingthat seats 7700 has like 85 foot
ceilings, you know, I mean, itwas like a man it was it was the
it was the biggest building asfar as the venue next to the
arena in town. It was huge.
Wow. That's a church. Yeah.
Yeah, that's.
So anyway, they go big, youknow, so there was like these

(30:24):
water fountains in the front ofthe stage that were MIDI
controlled. And we would do thissub drape that came out of the
ceiling, they would fly peopleon silks. And, you know, it was
just all of it was just, oh,there was fake ice, right. So
people were ice skating on thefake guys, we had low fog
machines. So it was just it wasa lot going on. So anyway, all
that to say, the pace wasdifferent. It was really heavy

(30:46):
in the beginning, but afterthat, then you it was just a lot
of time to kind of prepare andworking with volunteers. And I
feel like it slowed down alittle bit. And it was more
relational in that way a lotmore time spent with with
volunteers and plan and panic,the two modes you go through.
So Robbie, I know a lot ofsmaller church tech directors,
they you know, they'll see newlife or other mega churches like

(31:07):
willow creek or church of thehighlands, they'll see some of
these productions, they'll go tothem, or they'll you know, watch
them on TV or the internet. Andthey'll think oh, man, like they
must have like 57 fog machinesand storage and they just pull
them out for Christmas. Like, doall these churches have all this
gear or?
No, they know they rent it. Imean, a lot of them I was some

(31:28):
of them own it, like new lifeactually did own the low foggers
because they use them everyEaster and Christmas. So it made
sense to have co2 Low foggers.
And they would do this big likeEaster production called the
thorn that had it was it waslike a 400 person cast. So like,
they would buy these becausethey would do a weekend after
weekend after weekend. It wasjust cheaper. But in most cases
no. We rent a lot of low foggersfor Christmas and Easter from

(31:50):
for wall.
How big is the storage facilityholding all those guys? Were the
foggers you rent at our place?
Yeah, cool. Oh, well, Imean, are I just jumped the
shark. Sorry.
Yeah. No.
Why don't you tell us whatyou're doing? Yeah. So anyway,
so Okay, real, I'll fastforward. So that make the long

(32:11):
story short, all through all ofthis, right. I was working
freelance all the time. So I wasnever just with a start just
with the church or just withNatalie Cole or just with I was
still freelancing. And so, so Igot a lot of experience working
on, you know, shoots for a newcurriculum that we were going to
do because David C, Cook was intown, and like, we did stuff
with integrity, you got to dothese PowerBlock video shoots

(32:33):
and like all this other kind ofstuff. So a lot of other things
that I got to dabble in while Iwas there. And then I went to
tour with Jesus culture, I didthis one big event with them.
And then that turned intoessentially going full time with
them as a contractor and I and Iwent so from the church, I ended
up leaving the church and then Iwas full time with Jesus culture
for about three years and andthen moved to California. And

(32:57):
then from there decided to getoff the road because as our kids
were getting older, and then Iwent to work for a company
called DPS that was in SouthernCalifornia that does what
essentially before was rented,you know, light sound video
production and that sort ofthing. And so and then from
there was went from DPS to v er,because DPS folded and v er
acquired them. VR has now beenacquired by PRG. And, and when

(33:22):
that before that happened, Ileft and went to for wall and
that was about three and a halfyears ago. So now I've been and
so we moved to Tennessee, whichwe're here now from California,
because when I took the job withv er, I had agreed to that with
them, like they either want tobe in Texas, or in Nashville,
and Nashville had always been onthe list, you know, for

(33:43):
production towns is a cool townto be in. And so we'd already
done Texas, and I was like notdidn't want to go back. And so
here we are.
So for awhile rents, lights,visual elements.
Yeah, you know, I had to I waslike thinking about how to say
like, how to say best what wedo. And essentially, our motto

(34:03):
is large enough to serve a smallenough to care. And we are an
equipment rentals salesproduction company specializing
in lighting video, and riggingsolutions, including like
automation and things. And thenyour boss, you're definitely not
reading this off the website.
Totally. Thisis actually this is actually on
my note, I wrote that, you know,there we go. Yeah, I should
probably go into marketing. Butit was good. It was a good line.

(34:25):
And thanks. And so we also workin integration like with, you
know, they worked on like StarWars Land and that we've got
projects going over on Dubairight now. They helped with SoFi
stadium kind of infrastructurestuff that is going on. Okay.
Pause. So I flew over LA a fewweeks ago, and I looked down and
here's SoFi flashing across thetop of a stadium. Well, do you

(34:49):
know how that works? Do you knowwhat that thing is?
Uh, no, I don't. It must be Idon't actually know. So I
because that team is completelyseparate within our
organization. And I actuallydon't know how am I involvement
we had all right.
I've never flown over a stadiumand seen like a moving screen.
That's all essentially how tomaybe it's projection from
underneath or something thenmy guess is it's an LED walls

(35:09):
LED wall ceiling if I had toguess I could be wrong. Wow.
Can you guess rain on thatthough?
If it wasn't there wasn't thefield right. The field didn't
know is the roof. Okay, yeah.
Interesting.
What are some of the I mean,going back to churches like do
you guys outfit churches forEaster?
Chris, we do there's, we do alot of rental and sales with
with churches. And with for awhile, we also have used

(35:34):
lighting.com. Which, which youall know, where are we? That's
kind of another arm of thecompany where we sell our used
equipment. Actually, our rentalequipment. The reason we can
keep it so new is because weturn it over about every two to
three to four years. And for itgets sticky. That's exactly
right. Yes. So as it's before itgets sticky. And before we can
even have that conversation, itis in somebody else's hands.

(35:57):
That's our hands.
No. Oh, I was gonna say that'skind of the funny thing is that
we're competitors, I guess, in asense, but you're just so
likable. We were like, We got tohave Robby on the pod.
Here we are. But you know, butthen again, like we're also we
could also be a source for youguys. In some ways, I guess. I
guess it depends on if yourdepends on how favorable we feel
about lights at the time. Right?

(36:18):
We were just continuously as weget in more gear, assessing what
we do and don't like and finetuning all the time. So you
know, you you worked at a churchfor a time you have a really
cool story between going from onthe road to the church. Now at
four wall, you've done the wholegamut really. We have a lot of
church rip, we call them churchrefugees, trip staff, wretched

(36:40):
church staff,why is that so hard to stay?
church staff, refugees, there wego. It's a mouthful.
Boom, boom, we got it. Okay. Sofor better or worse, we got a
lot of them. People who haveworked in the church, and they
love the church, but they'relike, I'd like to serve the
church not work in the church.
You know, I obviously had toleave after the mass spill
incident that resulted on stickylights. So that's why I left but

(37:02):
yeah, they fired you after thatone. Oh, totally. Other people
just burn out. So you're stillfighting the good? Or like you
left? What encouragement wouldyou give people who are still
fighting the good fight, becauseyou still see them all the time
like for and you see them intheir most stressful times? And
I think about it, becauseChristmas and Easter are like,
that's the time so whatencouragement would you give
them when they're still outthere fighting the

(37:24):
fight? Well, you know, I, I'vereally enjoyed being on this
side. Because I was a designer,writers and operator, I was a, I
was a programmer, I did allthose things. And I really enjoy
that piece. And I do miss it attimes. But it's been fun being
on this side, being able toservice, the people that are in
the position I used to be in,because it's easy to understand
what they're going through andwhat they, you know, kind of the

(37:44):
challenges they have, andunderstanding budget issues and
all those types of things.
Right. So I mean, for them, Iwould say with the work that
they're doing. And this is Iguess I could say more
philosophical, but like, I willsay, for me, it was it was very
much a job. Because I might myskills and what I had and what I
could do, I was performing thework that I was I was given to

(38:08):
do. Right. And and I would saylike, you know, if someone's
working at the church it andthey're, they're skilled in
their work, then they need to bepaid accordingly. Because they
knew they needed to be takencare of. And it needs to be
fair, right? And and I would saydon't, you know, I would say
don't Don't, don't assume thatyou should just don't assume

(38:29):
that working for the church isthe same as serving God. Don't
assume that working for thechurch is the same as your
personal relationship withJesus, because it's not it's
really, really isn't they'recompletely different. And what
you do when you're outwardlydoing that, like that, you know,
and I'll say this, because I'veworked in plenty different
ministries, when when they tryand twist your arm to say, hey,
the the work you're doing at thechurch is is just like serving

(38:52):
God. So that needs to be yourvery first priority. It's like,
no, no, no, no, no, like, myfamily is going to come before
this, you know. And I think thatthat's important to make sure
those priorities in place. Andif they're not, then you need to
take a step back and considerthat you know, and a lot of
times the the burnout I thinkcomes sometimes from they just
keep giving and keep giving andkeep giving because there's this

(39:13):
level of like, guilt maybe ifthey don't, because they feel
like then they're not servingthe Lord or something. But
that's it's it's completelyseparate.
Yeah, the church can definitelyburn out people if they're
overworked and overstressed andunderappreciated.
But to encourage, you know, letme say that to encourage people.
It is really great work. Youguys are doing Oh, I

(39:34):
mean, they're rock stars likethey are we we marvel at how
they handle it all. Well,and let me say this coming in
the professional world, and Iknow you all have seen this. I
was thinking about this on theway over here, you know, I can't
count how many people have comefrom the church world that are
now working in mainstream andthey crush it and it's because
the church guys can roll withthe punches in every situation,
keep their cool, be a good hang,and get it done. and were like,

(39:59):
you know, I can't tell you I'veworked with plenty of people
where it's like, I can't workwith this condition, you know,
like if they don't have exactlywhat they have to have, but you
know, when the pastor comes inand hand you, oh, hey, instead,
we're changing the setlist rightnow. You know, you're like, oh,
okay, you know and you just rollwith the punches and so
and luckily most church techdirectors work in the perfect
conditions you know, they havenothing to plan about know,

(40:21):
everything you could ever wantis right. Okay, Robbie, we we
throw this question into guestsa lot and nobody's ever answered
it. But apparently you have. Sowe asked, you know, top five
albums of all time and youshocked us? I mean, you're a
lighting guy. What do you knowabout music? Right?
Right. Totally. Don'tlet him talk to you that way.
Yeah. Okay, so give hit it.

(40:41):
Well, top five. Thiswas really tough. And I was
thinking okay, which ones have Ilike, played out when I was like
playing out an album. Right. Alot of them are go back to like
compact discs. Or even beforethat. Real throwback cassettes
in there. Yeah, no, you know,that would have been a good one
like Ida. I like Michael Davies.
You know, that was actually myfirst concert. Go West young

(41:01):
man. Yeah. Oh, go west youngman. Yeah, I used to play that
one out to where that went out.
But I put so so hear that. Herethey are. I love audio
adrenaline bloom. That's just areally easy listen. Okay. And
you know, these don't all haveto be Christian. I know. Okay.
And then I went Switchfootnothing is sound came out. I
just listened to that a tonbecause I was videoing at the

(41:22):
time. And so like I remember Iwould have it on the background
as I was like working throughthings and when I didn't have to
worry about sound, whatever. SoI really enjoyed that album. And
Counting Crows August andeverything.
Oh, yes. And everything afterYeah. So you're getting a little
less Christian every time alittle less Christian? Yeah. You
know. And are we coming back toMotley Crue? Is that? Yeah,

(41:42):
that'sright. That's right. You've
heard of AC DC. No kidding. No,we, and then creed, human clay.
Wow, that was a good one.
Because the sound was differentand out of you for admitting
that it's a safe space. It is itis. And um, and then Pearl Jam.
10. Oh, yeah. And I was tryingto think I really liked this

(42:03):
fiber and Frenzy album, and Icouldn't I couldn't find it. But
But beyond that, I would sayeven now, I still love Weezer's
first album with sweater. Yeah,the Weezer album Blue. Yeah.
1994. and amazing. I kind oflike anything and everything. As
long as it's as long. I reallyappreciate music that has that

(42:24):
actually was hard to do. Like,you know, I, I'm not into the
whole I don't know, I want tohear musicians play like Brad
Paisley for his country musicbecause he's incredible.
You want to hear that talentstretched to the max. Right? See
what came out the other end.
So I almost feel really guiltythrowing the tech takeaway at
you, because you spend so muchgold on the encouragement to the

(42:44):
tech directors already thatreally feels like a takeaway.
But I'm gonna ask for a secondbecause if you already had one
great answer, I'm asked for asecond one because I want
another great answer. What'sWhat's something that church
techs that you would recommendthey do either philosophically,
which we already got a great oneon not allowing relationship God
to be confused with your job?
But maybe it's technical? Maybeit's another philosophical one,

(43:07):
something to make their servicesa little better, a little
easier?
Well, that's a good question forlike tech directors, I would say
so specifically for lighting.
That's all in there. This was abig one that I kind of harped on
when I was doing itprofessionally. Like when I was
like running lights for churchesor for worship and all that kind
of thing. I I'm not big onputting lights in people's eyes

(43:32):
all the time. I feel like it'sin their eyes, you have to move
it through. And it has to be fora moment and it has to hit and
it has to be timed in veryintentionally. Same with
strobing and all that. Sowhenever I'm sitting there, and
I'm in the and I'm runninglights, I intentionally focus a
lot of those positions on me,because if they're not on me, I
won't feel when people like ohgosh, I'm getting a headache.

(43:55):
These lights have been staringat me the whole time. So I've
focused them on myself and I'm apart of that audience look
right. So that I don't wearmyself out because I want to be
tasteful because if I'm doinglights for church or for
worship, it's not about me andabout the lighting show. It was
about just accenting what washappening with the music and
just the overall experience andso anyway, that that's that's

(44:17):
one big one that'sgenius. I cannot tell you how
many times I've like squintingmy eyes. I went to a mega church
while we already said new visionI did the squint my eyes a
couple of times growing up whereI was like I can't see so that's
great.
Well, you know, because likethen the lighting guys back
there taking a picture but thelights aren't blinding him. You
know what I mean? Makingyourself one of them one of the

(44:39):
experience exactly, yeah, doesit How does it feel to me
because that's how they'refeeling and I got to make sure
that or they could even feelless because I'm a lighting guy
like I do this for a living, youknow, so I don't know you just
kind of have to look throughtheir eyes. Empathy.
Like that. Well, man, probably Iappreciate you coming on. This
has been amazing. Yes. We'llhave you back and I just
appreciate you coming on.
Yeah, thanks for haven't been.

(45:01):
Thanks for listening. And hey,Congratulations on surviving
Sunday. If you happen to make itthrough next Sunday as well join
us again for your weekly techbreather.
Toby, you don't The only thing Ilike having blasted into my
eyes.
If it's not your wife'sbeautiful face, then I would
assume it's the church get earlyservice.
It is I want that put on maximumvolume. My computer screen is

(45:25):
bright as it gets every singleMonday morning. Does it actually
come with volume? You know, I'min maximum brightness there but
I said Vaughn you know the stuffon is so great. It speaks to me.
So I do hear some volume. Wellplayed early service every
Monday.