July 10, 2025 • 55 mins
What does it mean to feel free, connected, and authentic in queer spaces—without the crutch of alcohol or drugs?
In this episode of The Circle, Eric and Tim are joined by Dave Becker, founder of Sober Gay Sunday, to explore queer sobriety, nightlife, and what it means to connect without substances. Dave shares his personal story—from circuit parties and addiction to building a sober community that celebrates authenticity and nervous system regulation. Together, they unpack why so many queer people seek connection through bars and substances, and how alternative spaces like sports leagues, podcasts, and sober events can offer deep belonging. Whether you're sober, sober-curious, or just navigating your place in queer community, this conversation invites reflection, honesty, and compassion.
We go all in on:
- Why nightlife became the default way queer people connect
- How sobriety opened new dimensions of joy, clarity, and nervous system awareness
- What a more inclusive queer social landscape could look like
- How to listen to your body, set boundaries, and honor your own pace
Whether you're sober, sober-curious, or just reflecting on your relationship to community and connection, this episode offers insight, honesty, and hope.
Rate, review, and subscribe to The Circle to keep exploring men’s embodiment, queer healing, and personal growth.
Chapter Markers:
00:00 – Welcome to The Circle
01:07 – Introducing Dave Becker & Sober Gay Sunday
04:50 – First steps into gay nightlife and early alcohol use
08:20 – When partying turns into dependence
11:15 – The loop between alcohol, identity, and belonging
15:35 – Queer nightlife and double lives
18:55 – What are we seeking in nightlife and substances?
21:50 – The “chip on the shoulder” of queer identity
26:00 – The pandemic and Dave’s path to sobriety
30:25 – Community support & the surprise of being celebrated sober
34:05 – Advice for those navigating sobriety alone
39:35 – The power of shared experience
44:50 – What is a sober coach? How Dave found his
50:00 – Why Dave started Sober Gay Sunday
54:25 – What makes the queer sober experience unique
58:40 – Social anxiety, nervous systems & knowing when to leave
01:05:20 – Embodiment, boundaries & the wisdom of the body
01:12:30 – Inclusive queer spaces: from bars to kickball fields
01:19:15 – The structure of sport as a new kind of container
01:24:00 – Sobriety as a practice, not a perfect
01:27:00 – Closing reflection & breath practice with Tim
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Bomyea (00:05):
Welcome back to The Circle, the podcast where we go
all in on men's work, embodimentpractices, and personal growth
from our queer perspective. Ifyou're enjoying the show, please
be sure to leave a review, rate,and subscribe. And if you have a
question about anything you'veheard us talk about, please send
us a message. We'd love to hearfrom you. Now on to today's
show.
Today, we're exploring how wegather, connect, and celebrate
(00:26):
as queer people, and what itlooks like to do that in ways
that feel aligned, authentic,and alive. For many of us,
especially in queer spaces,drinking and partying have long
been part of how we find eachother, but they're not the only
way. We're joined by DaveBecker, a gymnastics coach and
the founder of Sober Gay Sunday,a social group and podcast that
creates space for queer folks inrecovery. Dave shares his
(00:47):
personal journey and how beingin and building up community
without substance opened up newways of being seen, having fun,
and feeling free. Whether you'resober, curious, or just
reflecting on how you show up incommunity, this one's for you.
Tim, Dave, are you ready to goall in? I'm ready.
Dave Becker (01:02):
Absolutely.
Eric Bomyea (01:04):
Awesome. Dave, it's so good to have you on the
podcast today. How are you too?
Dave Becker (01:07):
Very good. Very good. I'm really happy to be
here. That was a great intro.You have a great podcast voice
too.
So Thank you. Thank
Eric Bomyea (01:15):
you. I appreciate that. So in listening to your
own podcast, I heard you talkabout how finding sober
community changed your life. SoI'm wondering if you can take us
back to what life was likebefore that shift. What were
some of the early experiencesthat shaped both your identity
as a gay man and your pathtowards sobriety?
Dave Becker (01:32):
That's that's we're going back away. So I'm 40 years
old now, and I started, youknow, in the gay community back
early two thousands when I hadjust turned 18. So one of the
things that I think a lot of ushave to lean on when we first
come into the community is,like, the bar scene and the
(01:53):
party scene, because that'swhere the majority of our
community meet. And for me, itwas one of those things where I
was coming from a small town inMassachusetts. I was anxious, a
very anxious person.
And when I first startedengaging in in the gay nightlife
(02:15):
in Boston, alcohol made me feelreal special, real good, real
involved, real you know, I'm I'msure most of us have a similar
situation and similar experiencewhere you become kind of at that
time, what you think is, like,the better version of yourself.
And again, to be surrounded byqueer people for the first time
(02:37):
when you're young is just theseso much it's so exciting. And
then to add alcohol on top ofthat is just a whirlwind for a
young person. I have a verysupportive family, very
supportive community back homewhere I where I grew up. I was
on the girls gymnastics team inhigh school, so, like, people
(02:58):
were not surprised.
And and so even for me assomeone who had a really
accepting background acceptinghome, I still really relied
heavily on alcohol to get myselfthrough, like, the social
existence of a gay of being agay person. So and from the very
(03:20):
beginning, was go. Go. Go. Go.
Go. I mean, out Thursday,Friday, Saturday, Sunday as soon
as I was able to, you know, assoon as I was able to go out
when I was 21. And that justkind of snowballed into, you
know, come becoming a circuitboy and getting to the involved
in drugs with that. And thenfrom there, just the addiction
(03:44):
took me over. And once theaddiction had kind of had me, I
had I led a very stark doublelife of, like, social gay boy
and then the dark side ofcrystal meth.
So and then from there, it justgot so it got bad. I mean, that
that drug especially isincredibly insidious. And it it
(04:08):
got to the point where it waslike, you know, I had to choose
sobriety or I was just gonnacontinue to use until I wasted
away. So
Timothy Bish (04:15):
I'm gonna jump in here because I I heard you say
something, and you werespeaking, I think, specifically
about drinking in the moment.Yep. You talked about it
initially like, oh, where you'reat this bar, and it feels good.
And you kind of feel this, like,what's felt like a heightened
experience. Later, you mentionedthen using it to kind of manage
(04:35):
your navigation.
And I wonder if you could makethat distinction, like talk a
little bit about that, because Ithink one can turn into the
other. We're like, oh, well,maybe I feel a little buzzed.
Maybe that's fun. Mhmm. And thenit transitions into, well, now I
need this social lubricant toeven exist in this space.
Can you speak to that a littlebit?
Dave Becker (04:55):
Definitely. I think they not even necessarily just,
like, lead into the other, butgo very much hand in hand. Like,
when you're experiencing the gayworld for the first time and you
you do some a lot of us needthat social lubrication just to
get in the door and then to thenget the feeling of, you know,
feeling great and feeling socialand feeling, you know, accepted
(05:19):
and feeling outgoing, that thenkind of loops back into needing
the alcohol or the drugs tocontinue that cycle. So I I
think it's it's like a it's likea horrible little, like, loop.
Mhmm.
And one comes it's like chickenor the egg situation. You know?
And it it's it's even, you know,friends I've had since I was 18
(05:43):
years old going out for thefirst time still, you know, will
be like, oh, I I need I don'tunderstand how you go out
without having a cocktail orhaving a, you know, whatever
else. It's it's it's notnecessarily something you even
grow out of until it getsbecomes a problem, I think.
Timothy Bish (05:58):
Yeah. I think that there's the idea of it feeling
good, but I imagine that can bekind of complicated because I
have to imagine at times, itfeels good to not be terrified
to be here.
Eric Bomyea (06:08):
Could be part of the feeling good, right? So very
similar to my first experiencegoing to a gay bar, I was
terrified. I was so terrified tobe there because it was an
admission. It was an admissionto myself that this is the space
that I want to be in. And so, Irelied on alcohol to help to
(06:29):
calm some of those jitters.
And then I opened up and beganto have a good time. So it does
become a chicken or an egg,right? Because I started to calm
down, and then the feeling thatI was chasing then was this
euphoric, I belong, this is funfeeling. And I associated it
with alcohol. And then later onother drugs as well.
(06:51):
And then it really does becomethat chasing of, for me anyway,
the chasing of that, thatperpetual high of like, oh, the
first couple times that I wentout, I was feeling in this head
space. I was feeling like Ibelonged, and everything was
fun, and the the consistentthere was my reliance on on
alcohol to get me there.
Dave Becker (07:08):
Absolutely. 100. And it's it's in any kind of
situation with drugs and alcoholthat you're almost always
chasing that first time. Like,even when you move into the
harder stuff, like, it's justlike that first time for most of
us is is really what getschased. So that's absolutely
makes sense.
Eric Bomyea (07:26):
You talked a little bit about queer nightlife. So
what was your relationship liketo the queer nightlife in social
spaces before sobriety? Youtalked about going out
frequently, like, what what didthat create within your social
structure and
Dave Becker (07:40):
So when I first started going out, when I was 18
years old in Boston, you werestill could go to some of the 18
plus clubs, which does
Eric Bomyea (07:47):
Like a machine.
Dave Becker (07:48):
Yep. And access on Lansdowne Street. And I was
lucky enough to have a boyfriendwhen I was that age that was
very helpful in kind of helpingme traverse the gay world for
the very first time. He was sucha good teacher. Everything from,
you know, where to go out tojust like queer culture and and
(08:12):
some of the more physical sexualstuff, obviously.
It was just this I had thisreally great teacher for the
first two years of being outbecause I just met a really
wonderful person who was able tokind of guide me through. But
initially, was, you know, justgoing out once a week with, you
know, my boyfriend and myfriends, and then I made an
enormous amount of of friendsgoing out. And especially being
(08:33):
that it was the early twothousands, it was right at the
beginning of when manhunt andonline dating was kind of
starting to show itself. So wehad to go out to meet people. We
had to go out to make friends.
I mean, we had Myspace ish atthe very beginning of that.
Like, we're just slowly gettingcreeping into the to what it is
(08:56):
now, which is just completelyinundating our our gay culture
is crazy. But and then onceHipman and I broke up, I just
continued having these enormousfriend groups and all meeting
all these people, and and and itjust kinda kept going for most
of my adult life, was having areally strong, big group of
(09:17):
friends that were all involvedwith gay nightlife in Boston.
And for a long time, it wasreally great. It was really
wonderful.
And and it it slowly after awhile when you you kind of move
through to the the groups thatare really into drugs and
drinking and going out andthat's kind of their whole
existence, I I I unfortunatelykind of slid into that type of
(09:41):
group in towards the end of mytwenties and my early thirties.
And that's when, like, theaddiction really kind of, like,
really, really stuck and really,really hit was when you get
involved with people who arejust party boys. I mean, they
look great, but that's a lot.
Timothy Bish (09:57):
But they're but they're they're seeking
something. We're all seekingsomething. And I'm just curious,
do you have a sense of what itis we're seeking and what it is
we're missing that then we kindof bring substance into to help
fill?
Dave Becker (10:12):
Well, I think every single gay person has a
proverbial chip on theirshoulder from growing up
different. And it depends oneach person how big that chip is
and how much you need to fill itand how much you try to fill it.
And so every single person onthis planet it doesn't matter.
It's everyone seeks connection.And so even if you were growing
(10:34):
up as, like, you know, on thefootball team, but you were gay
or you were a little, you know,part of my French would faggot,
like, you have a sense in theback of your mind that every
move you make as a young personis different than your straight
counterparts.
And that's trauma. That'straumatizing for a child. That's
(10:57):
traumatizing for a young adult.As you said earlier, I coach
gymnastics, and I work with agestwo to 18. And it's such a being
a child sucks.
Like, being a teenager sucksworse. And that's when you're
trying to figure yourself outand you have this secret. Like,
holding a secret makes you sickinside. And even for me, who had
(11:21):
again, I've has an amazinglysupportive family. My dad grew
up in New York City and workedin theater.
Like, he knew. He knew. It's apicture of me at five years old
in my gymnastics outfit forwhere we took gymnastics
pictures, and my little fingeris just dropped ever so
slightly. And my dad sent the mymy gymnastics pictures to my
(11:45):
aunt who lives in California,and she looked at this picture
and she says, I really have tocome out as a lesbian to the
family so that this little onedoesn't have as much trouble as
he might. She put the little gayass picture down.
She'd call my dad. And so thesupport was there, but I still
felt so alone, like, at school,alone at gymnastics, alone at
(12:09):
any any activity because I wasjust different. And so every
single person is trying to fixthat inner child. And that's one
of the big things that peopleturn to drugs and alcohol for.
Timothy Bish (12:22):
I really feel like my experience in the men's
workspace is that we are alllooking for more connection,
more belonging, more authenticinteraction. And then I think
based on what you just said,that mirrors my own personal
experience, queer people have a,maybe a higher mountain decline
(12:42):
with regards because we havefelt so different and so
othered. And so one of the magiccomponents of the circle that
we've created and this men'swork and embodiment work is the
opportunity for a new kind ofconnection, a new kind of
intimacy. Mhmm. And I and I itdoes hurt my heart sometimes
when I think that we we exist ina community that doesn't
(13:03):
necessarily know other ways ofdoing it.
This is the way that we youknow, I remember when I was, you
know, a freshman in at NYU, theway you met people were to go to
queer spaces, and most of thosequeer spaces were bars.
Dave Becker (13:16):
Mhmm.
Timothy Bish (13:16):
I do remember the big cup, which doesn't exist
anymore, but it was a coffeeshop. But but it was still a
place where you like, you neededto have some money, you needed
to have you you know, there werecertain requirements. And so I
feel like our community isbegging for other resources,
ways of communicating and andconnecting that aren't
necessarily this one thing.
Eric Bomyea (13:39):
On that topic, I have a question for you, Dave,
about as somebody that was soingrained into the nightlife and
the circuit scene, did you shiftonce you got sober? What were
those how did thoserelationships continue or end?
How did your relationship withgoing out shift or change?
Dave Becker (14:00):
So I was lucky in the sense that my sober date is
July 2020.
Eric Bomyea (14:09):
It's Timmy's birthday.
Dave Becker (14:10):
Hey. Hey. Well, there you go. So I couldn't go
out when I got sober. Pandemic.
Yeah. Was in the middle ofpandemic. And and clubs were all
closed. You know, therestaurants had all their
whatever rules. So for me, itforced me to stay in and do the
work on myself with my sobercoach and my therapist and and
(14:32):
to step away from the nightlifescene and from all that stuff
because then no one could doanything.
And I was very fortunate that itwas kind of a a really hard
limit for that the world had puton me. So one of the things I
did to get myself sober andreally stay sober was to jump on
(14:53):
not to sound like a millennial,but I jumped on social media and
really made myself incrediblylike, I made it incredibly
public. Like, I was like it wassober this, sober that. I was
checking in. I was posting onevery sober date, you know, two
months, three months, fourmonths, five months, six months.
So then by the time that theworld opened up, which was
(15:16):
Memorial Day of twenty twentyone, the the clubs opened up and
I was like, alright. Like, herewe go. Let's do this. Let's go
out with my roommates, go outwith my friends. And I really
didn't know what to expect.
And I went out, and every singleperson that I saw congratulated
me on my sobriety. I mean, someof them had pupils the size of
(15:39):
dinner plates at the time. Itwas kind nonetheless. And I
wasn't sure what people weregonna do, and I wasn't sure
what, like, all my circuitbuddies were gonna say, what
they were gonna and it was justthis incredible amount,
overwhelming amount of support.Because you can you can post and
you can tag and you can whateveras much as you want online, but
(16:01):
for me, that's like that it'snot as tangible no matter how
many likes you get, it's not astangible as face to face
interaction with people reallybeing incredibly kind.
And it was again, like, I'vebeen going out in the city since
I was 18 years old, so I know alot of people, and it was just
every single person.Congratulations. You're doing
(16:21):
great.
Eric Bomyea (16:22):
It's really beautiful, because I sometimes
get very cynical. So refreshingto hear that community can
embrace who it is that we aretrying to be, who it is we're
trying to manifest in thisworld. So by what I heard you
say is by claiming your identityso publicly and vocally, saying,
(16:43):
I am sober, it then gotreflected back to you,
community, to say, You aresober, and congratulations. And
it's moments like that thatreally help soothe my cynical
side, that our queer communityreally is embracing and
accepting when you call out youridentity. And so I just I just
wanted to take a moment.
Dave Becker (17:03):
Yeah. And one of the things that really surprises
me, especially when I started mygroup, Sober Gay Sunday, is the
community that aren't soberwould give me sober friends'
names. Like, I'd be out dancingwith my friends, and my friends
were like, oh my goodness. Youhave to meet this person.
They're sober.
You're sober. Let's go. And Igot a ton of people just from
(17:24):
that. And, again, to kinda goout into, like, a non sober
space and to have people belike, oh, you're the Sobercase
Sunday guy. Like, I know thisperson.
You should talk to them. This isthis. This is this. So it's
really been a really, reallyincredible to to have such an
amazing response to somethinglike that.
Timothy Bish (17:41):
I mean, this is all very uplifting. And I have
to imagine that there are somepeople who don't have the luxury
of that exact experience. And Iwonder if you could speak a
little bit to the person who ismaking this choice in their life
and maybe are met withconfusion, abandonment,
misunderstanding, any number ofthings, and how they might like,
(18:04):
what advice might you give themto stay strong in their journey?
Dave Becker (18:07):
I mean, I I think finding any connection with
anybody that is that is goingthrough something similar to
yourself is gonna be reallyhelpful. I fell a lot into
listening to podcasts once I gotsober because, again, world was
closed down, so, like, hearingsober voices and sober queer
voices was very, very helpful.There was this podcast called
(18:30):
The Sober Gay that was that wason at that time, and then there
was a bunch of other ones that Ijust sat and listened to when I
was, you know, walking to workor going to, you know, the gym
or whatever. Was something thathaving this having someone talk
to you in your ear that has beenthrough what you've been through
or is going through what you'regoing through can be very
helpful if you don't have, like,the luxury of having a
(18:52):
connection to a community orconnection to other sober queer
people. I listened to a coupleof girls called The Seltzer
Squad for a while, and and it'sit's it just helps to hear that
there's people going through iteverywhere.
We tend to sometimes forgetabout the fact that we're that
we're not alone when it comes tolike, one of the best pieces of
(19:16):
advice that I ever got from mysober coach about a month into
my sobriety was, no matter howbad you think it's gone or how
bad you think it is, someone hasdone something 10 times worse
than you. And then on the laststop of their book tour about
it, like, you're gonna be okay.So sometimes we just think our
situation and our lives are sobad that it helps sometimes to
(19:41):
hear every side of the of thestory from everybody else.
Eric Bomyea (19:45):
A little perspective can go a long way to
to help ground you in thereality of like, oh, this is
this is my situation. Doesn'tmake it any less, you know, big,
but it maybe makes it a littlebit more manageable.
Timothy Bish (19:59):
I think what I'm hearing that I think is so
important is this idea ofmeeting people or connecting
with people who can relate toyou and have a similar, like,
shared experience. And I'm gonnashare a story of my own. It has
nothing to do with sobriety, butwith my brain surgery. And after
my brain surgery, it was I washaving a really, really tough
time. And I remember I workedwas an acupuncturist, I worked
(20:21):
right next to Boxers, the bar inChelsea.
I was just really I was justreally sad and feeling very
alone. And so I'm like, well,I'm gonna go in here, and I'm
gonna have a beer, I'm gonna,like, watch different TV and
just I don't know what I waslooking for. Anyway, that's not
the point. I sit down. I seeacross the room of this person
with whom I had performed.
And initially, I was like, ohgod, like, now I have to, like,
(20:43):
make small talk. It's, like, notwhat I want. But I do like this
person. I actually, like, deeplylove this person. And so they
come over, they start chattingwith me, And I real they start
sharing.
They're like, how are you? AndI'm like, I'm not great. Like,
I'm really going through itright now. I had a brain
surgery. La la la.
They're like, oh, well, I had anopen heart surgery. I've felt
similar things. And then we hadthis conversation. I remember,
(21:06):
because I was still usingFacebook at the time, I walked
out and my status update waslike, was saved by an angel
tonight. Because I just neededsomeone who understood the
severity of, like, we didn'thave the same procedure, but the
severity of what I was goingthrough.
And and it came to me. And itwas so healing. So I think one
of the takeaways is that sharedexperience is really powerful.
(21:30):
Really, really powerful. Becauseit can feel very isolating
otherwise.
I felt very alone till suddenlythis person was like, I've had
Eric Bomyea (21:36):
a similar thing. Like, when we can see ourselves
in others and when people canvalidate our experiences and
existence, it really help makeit much more manageable. And
this even goes back to my firsttime in a gay bar. It was that.
It was like, oh, I'm less alone.
And it was that elation, thatrelief of like, oh, I do, there
(22:02):
are other people like me.
Dave Becker (22:04):
Yeah. It's very it's it it makes such a
difference. It's insane. It'slike because again, we get very
much in our own heads like noone else can possibly
understand. And very negativeself talk, it's kinda takes
over.
And then you the end of a bar ofsomeone that's going through
something very similar and thereit is.
Eric Bomyea (22:21):
Yeah. So you've mentioned your sober coach twice
now. So I'm just curious, whatis a sober coach? How did you
find them? Did you learn besidesthis amazing perspective shift
that they gave you?
Dave Becker (22:35):
So I met my sober coach actually. So sober coach
is someone who is coaches youthrough sobriety, not unlike a,
like, a life coach or, like,it's not necessarily someone
that is a clinical psychologistor psychiatrist, something like
that. It's someone who is justthere to help other people who
are going through the soberjourney.
Timothy Bish (22:56):
Can we pause for a second? Yeah. There isn't a is
there's an AA equivalent. Right?With what is the
Dave Becker (23:03):
Sponsor?
Timothy Bish (23:04):
Sponsor. I know. So, yeah, if we could talk a
little bit about, like, ifthey're the same or if not, how
they're different.
Dave Becker (23:09):
Yeah. So, yeah, like, so a sober coach is
someone who kind of coaches youthrough your sobriety and your
sober experience, you know,unlike a sponsor in AA, someone
who's just gonna hold your handand lead you through and get you
know, if you're doing AA or NA,you do the steps. And if you're
not, you just talk it out andget it. So my my sober coach was
(23:33):
somebody that I used to go andhook up with after I would party
all night. And he was this olderguy and obviously, we met on the
apps, you know, whatever.
So and there was a moment fewyears before I got sober where I
was, you know, you were finishedor whatever. And he said he just
(23:54):
looked at me and he said,whenever you figure this out and
you need someone, call me. And Iwas like, you don't know me.
Whatever. Like, see you.
You don't know me. So the the
Eric Bomyea (24:11):
I've I'm pretty sure I've said those exact
phrases in a exact tone before.
Dave Becker (24:16):
Like, so I mean, I every time I am do impressions
of myself as a younger person,I'm such a bitch. Yeah. I'm
like, what? So the morning thatI had kind of hit my rock bottom
and it was time, he was thefirst person I thought of and
did exactly as he said. I said Icalled him right up, and he
(24:37):
picked up the phone.
He said, you figured it out,didn't you? And I was like, yes.
Like, let it all come out. Andso, you know, he he he said,
alright. Let's meet up thisweek, and let's talk about what,
you know, what's what the nextsteps are for you and what
happened and and all that.
So I worked with him for about amonth until I could get in with
(25:02):
therapist. And then I workedkind of primarily with the
therapist from then on out. Buthe was just instrumental in I
needed somebody that I knew andtrusted and was there and and
wasn't a a stranger that wasgoing that I have to, like,
start fresh with. You know whatI mean? It was just he knew
(25:23):
because I was high on drugs,texting him at six in the
morning to, you know, getfucked.
And and so he was like and hehimself had gone through crystal
meth addiction. And he so heknew what was going on and what
what the world was like. Sothat's my experience with a
sober coach. And it was, again,it was instrumental because we
(25:45):
just kinda started right in withthe hard work. Being mentors
Eric Bomyea (25:51):
who have had walked the path before and who can help
guide and monitor withoutpushing, it sounds like this
person never pushed on you toget sober. They were not preachy
about it. They just said, hey. Isee you.
Dave Becker (26:07):
Mhmm.
Eric Bomyea (26:07):
And I am here when you're ready. So I'm just gonna
acknowledge that I see thatthere's something happening,
judging you, pushing you, sayingI'm here if there's ever a time.
Dave Becker (26:18):
Mhmm. It was yeah. It was exactly that. Didn't make
me feel like shit. Just knew.
Eric Bomyea (26:25):
And that is that is so powerful in all situations in
life to have somebody that canjust, like, be there for you
without judgment. It's such agift. And so I want to talk
about the gift that you've giventhe world with your community
and podcast of Sober GaySundays. So curious, what
(26:46):
inspired you to start that, andwhat kind of community are you
building through that space?
Dave Becker (26:52):
So because I I had felt really inspired by
listening to podcasts when I wasgetting sober for the first
time, I wanted to kind of pay itforward, and I wanted to bring
that that light into otherpeople's life by just getting
people to tell their stories andgetting people out there. And
(27:17):
it's it's not it's it's not itwas very humbling for me because
I had listened to, you know,podcasts coming out of coming
into my sobriety. But to, like,sit there sit there face to face
with someone who is, like,telling you their whole life
story and their soul soberjourney, some of the things that
(27:38):
I heard from my guests was justshocking. And, I mean, I'd have
to, like after the after the Iclosed the laptop and be like
like, woah. And do it wasencouraging to me to keep going
and to be sober and be strongfor these, because because it's
every person I had, I felt likeI took under my wing.
(28:00):
And I every person I I talked tofelt like they became part of my
little family. And so it reallymade me feel like I was giving
back. And at the time when Istarted it, I I couldn't find a
lot of queer centric, soberpodcasts. It's a lot more now,
which is great, and I love that.But it's one of the first things
(28:27):
I said at one of my first sobergay Sunday meetup events was the
queer sober experience is sounique.
And even you could do and andand drink as much as the the
straight person next to you, butthe queer experience is just a
little bit different. And thatwas one of the big things that I
(28:51):
wanted to give a voice to, wasthe queer experience.
Eric Bomyea (28:55):
Can we unpack that a little bit? What, in your
opinion, makes the queer soberexperience so unique?
Dave Becker (29:01):
I feel like we have such a similar kinda going back
to the proverbial chip on theshoulder Mhmm. Growing up. That
is such a seed toward towardsaddiction in itself. And so
every single queer person thatis going through addiction has
that issue from the verybeginning. And a lot of times,
(29:25):
that is what causes addiction totake hold.
Of course, there's a millionother different things that are,
you know, part of the slipperyslide of addiction, but we can
all understand that we have thatchip from being kids, and we are
(29:45):
still under incredible pressuresfrom the outside world about
just being queer and being ofthis community. And, you know,
you're you're I think thatstraight allies are incredibly
important. I'm not downplayingthat at all, and I'm not
downplaying anyone's experience.It's just that your straight
(30:06):
sober friends are still livingin the straight world and have
different pressures, but we havean umbrella of pressure over us
that every single queer personcan relate to. And so that
weaves into the fabric of ouraddictive past, present, and
(30:27):
future in a way that a straightcounterpart just doesn't
understand and can't understand.
It's like I can't understandbeing a black queer sober
person. I cannot understandbecause they you know, people
who are of ethnic minoritieshave even more piled on top of
(30:48):
them than me who's a cisgenderwhite male. So it's the same
kind of thing for straight toqueer relationships when it
comes to sobriety, in myopinion.
Eric Bomyea (30:58):
I I found similar where going out again has
sometimes been liberating andeasy, and other times has been
incredibly challenging becauseof this chip on my shoulder of
like, do I fit in? Is theresomething wrong with me? Why am
I different? If I go out to Tdance, everyone has a a rum
(31:23):
punch in their hand, and I'msitting there, like, trembling
from anxiety because I don'tknow how to, like, handle
myself, I feel I feel reallyalone. And I don't know how to
myself, so I run.
Dave Becker (31:33):
Which is fine. Like, I mean, honestly, that is
a hundred percent one of thosethings where that is a perfectly
accepting acceptable copingmechanism. Pulling yourself out
of a situation where you don'tfeel safe, secure, and
wonderful. I I have very oftenone of the things I do before I
(31:56):
go out is I tell myself, if itgets crazy in there, I'm just
leaving.
Eric Bomyea (32:03):
Therapist likes to remind me. He's like, you can
set yourself a timer. Yeah. Onehour. Mhmm.
You can do it for one hour andthen check-in with yourself. And
if I'm if I don't have thestamina for an hour, set the
timer for thirty minutes. I'vebeen plenty of times. And this
is even at sober parties, mindyou, where I will set a timer.
I'm like, how long can I dothis?
Mhmm.
Dave Becker (32:23):
Well,
Eric Bomyea (32:23):
sometimes the cap is thirty minutes.
Dave Becker (32:25):
Seriously. That's and that's like I mean, I agree.
Trust me. I plan sober events,and it's just like sometimes I'm
like, I really wish I wasn't incharge of this because I would
really like to be there. Yeah.
But what what I what I used todo, like, especially when it was
like I was first going back outto the clubs is and this this
can be used for anybody, but Iwould I would I would order 25
(32:49):
Dunkin' Donuts munchkins, and Iwould eat half before I left,
and I would leave half. So whenI was out and I really wasn't
feeling it, I could just belike, oh my god. My munchkins
are waiting for me and I'm out.And I go home and I would eat
them to the point where, like,all my circuit friends that I
would, you know, was able tohang out with again would be
(33:11):
like, are you going home withyour munchkins, baby? And
they're like, yep.
Munchkins are waiting.
Timothy Bish (33:14):
Yeah.
Dave Becker (33:14):
See you. But I always tell people who are going
out for the first time, like, ifif if you really feel in your
heart that it's not feeling likea safe place, it's not feeling
good, it's not feeling and thereason is doesn't matter.
Leaving is so much safer thantrying to push through.
Eric Bomyea (33:35):
And I just wanna chime in here that it has
nothing to do with other people.Other like, it is my nervous
system that feels unsafe. It isnot anything anyone is doing.
It's not the rum punches. Right?
Right. Not it's not that. It'smy nervous system.
Dave Becker (33:50):
Right.
Eric Bomyea (33:50):
And, like, it's honoring that.
Timothy Bish (33:52):
Mhmm.
Eric Bomyea (33:53):
Right? Like, my nervous system does not feel
safe. That's it.
Dave Becker (33:56):
Right. Exactly.
Eric Bomyea (33:57):
How can I honor that and respect where I am?
Dave Becker (33:59):
And some people just can't go back out. And
that's fine. Because I've hadmany people who tell me even,
like, you know, I had twentyfive years of sobriety and
they're like, I just can't goout. I just don't feel like it's
a good place for me. And that'sthat's fine.
Yeah. It's completely fine.
Eric Bomyea (34:20):
My my first year, I really pushed myself to go out
because I wanted to, like,challenge myself to do it. I
actually worked at a bar as wellduring that time. So bar back,
and I was like, I'm gonna putmyself into the pit of it. I'm
just gonna go all in. And it wasa good challenge, it helped keep
me focused and gave me like asense of purpose of like, Oh,
(34:43):
I'm gonna do this.
I'm gonna get through this bylike, exposure therapy. And then
year two hit, and all thatcrumbled around me. I developed
an incredible amount of socialanxiety going out. And it really
I've worked through this with mytherapist that I think what the
(35:04):
first couple times that I wasgoing out, even drinking, I
didn't feel safe in thoseenvironments. And that was why I
reached for drugs and alcohol.
There was something in mynervous system that said, The
bar scene is not for me, is notfor my nervous system. I get
(35:26):
overstimulated very quickly,don't deal well, not being able
to know people on an intimatelevel. My voice is a beautiful
podcasting voice. Tim likes tosay that I have to speak up a
lot because I have bedroomvoice, which means that it does
With love. Yes.
It does not travel in loudenvironments.
Dave Becker (35:47):
No. A low register I'm a trained singer too, so a
low register does not cutthrough high pitched noise.
Eric Bomyea (35:53):
And so a lot of times in those environments, I'm
trying to make my voice beheard, and I can't. It starts to
send me in, in, in, and then Iwould just throw back 15 drinks
and however much cocaine I couldstick up my nose to try to even
muscle through. And then whenall that was removed and I went
(36:14):
out, I was like, Oh, thisfeeling is still there. Oh, this
may just not be my environment.
Dave Becker (36:19):
My boyfriend's the same way. My boyfriend was a
bartender at The Crown twosummers ago, and then he worked
at Presque. But going outtogether, like, he is like,
we're, like, he's the same way.He's like, I can last ten
minutes maybe. I don't wannascream at people.
I don't wanna yell. He has adeep voice too, so I'm always
like I'm like, I I can't evenfucking hear you.
Timothy Bish (36:40):
Yeah. Know.
Dave Becker (36:41):
I'm like, I'm sober as anybody. Like, we went to
purgatory, he was like, fifteenminutes. Yeah. That's all we
get. I was like, okay.
Okay. Okay. Okay. But it's Iit's one of those places, you
know, those things again. It'slike, for me, it's like when the
room starts when, like, thewitching hour is at its peak and
(37:02):
everyone is just so in theirdrugs and in their drink and in
their, like, it's not cuteanymore, the first whiff of
that, I'm out of here.
Because then it just gets thatis, like, just before it gets,
like, messy and people start tospill drinks on you or stumble
(37:23):
into you or, like, for me, it'slike when that stuff starts to
happen and I have no control ofthe room in the sense of, like,
people's just people justbanging into me and it's just
like my space feels small,that's for me. It's like, see
you later. Like, we we're noteven gonna try to push through
this because I don't wanna behere anymore.
Eric Bomyea (37:43):
Yeah. It's honoring it's honoring your boundaries
and what you're comfortable andnot comfortable with. You know,
it's not, again, I'm gonna saythis isn't about anyone. Right?
It's it's just about
Dave Becker (37:54):
Right.
Eric Bomyea (37:54):
For me. It's just it's just about me, what I'm
comfortable with.
Dave Becker (37:57):
Mhmm. And my munchkins are waiting for me. So
Eric Bomyea (38:00):
I I may start doing that. I mean, I'm I'm usually,
like, a I'm more secretive aboutit. Like, I don't tell people,
but, like, usually, I have,like, a candy bar in the
freezer, and that that's my,like, my little treat for
myself.
Dave Becker (38:10):
It doesn't cost me 25 munchkins. That's a lot too.
Know.
Eric Bomyea (38:13):
Mine's a king-size Carmelo bar. So
Timothy Bish (38:17):
So one of the one of the challenges that I've
noticed just in our world andwith men is that we're not
really very deeply connected toour own felt sense and our own
sensational experience ofourselves and our life. Mhmm.
And so I believe what typicallyhappens then is that we kind of
(38:37):
miss the signals or ignore themuntil we get this feeling that
is so big that we can't ignoreit. Mhmm. And that also then
feels like a moment whensubstance might come in.
Well, now suddenly, all thewarning signs, all the little,
like, dates have been passed,and I now I'm just in this
really big moment. And so nowI'm gonna drink or now I'm gonna
use drugs or or whatever thething is. But my question to you
(38:59):
is, because you know so much ofthe embodiment work is meant to
help us create a conversationwith our own internal body
wisdom. Understand it, learn howto work with it before we're
completely overwhelmed by it. Sowhat would you say to people who
are becoming sober or working intheir sobriety about their
(39:20):
relationship with their body andhow it can be a tool and how to
not how to not be overwhelmed byit at times, when it can at
times be overwhelming?
Dave Becker (39:29):
I think definitely it comes down to, like, your
just true grit honesty withyourself and really trying to
make sure that you, like, youlearn. That's one of the things
that my sober coach reallyhelped me learn was, like, you
gotta check-in with your ownself. Sobriety is one of those
things where it needs to beselfish. It needs to be because
a lot of times when you'resober, not only are you, like,
(39:52):
just more aware of, like, what'sgoing on around you, because
obviously you're not drowningyour brain with substance, but,
like, there's a level of guiltof for me, I'll speak
personally, like, there was alevel of guilt of how
irresponsible and how kind ofburdensome I was to people.
Like, I felt this, like, reallyheavy sense of, like, just
(40:17):
almost, like, owing people mypresence as a sober person to
make up for my presence as adrunk, high mess.
And one of the things I just,like, my again, my sober coach,
like, really wanted me to workon was just like, you don't owe
anybody anything. And so yourown body is your most you're
(40:37):
most responsible for your ownbody because ain't nobody gonna
be checking in, you know, like,you can check-in. And so for
someone who's really strugglingwith that, it's like, you really
do need to just, like, stepaside, talk to yourself, be
honest with yourself, and andjust make decisions based on
what is best for you. Like, oh,I came out with five friends.
(40:59):
Like, what about them?
Like, they're gonna be fine.You're the one who's not fine
right now because you're havingto check-in with yourself. You
can feel it. So I think that'sone of the biggest, you know, a
piece of advice I can give isjust you have to be honest with
yourself, check-in, because ifyou you, you know, if you can't
take care of you, you can't takecare of anybody else.
Eric Bomyea (41:19):
I'll be curious about your sensation. So you
talked about, like, the witchinghour, like, how it gets close to
that time. You can, like, senseit and you can start to feel the
the energy shift. For me now, Iam more in tuned with my body.
My experience is I can start tofeel it rising almost like acid
(41:39):
in my body.
My empathy is building formyself right now where I can
feel it, where I'm like, if Iput myself into T dance right
now, what am I going toexperience? And I can already
feel it. It's almost likeheartburn. And it's building up
in me, and I now sense that. Ican sense that when that's
happening, and then that willstart to create the trembles in
(41:59):
my hands of like, oh my gosh,what am I doing here?
I'm about to have a panicattack. And now I know as soon
as that feeling starts, check-inwith myself, look at my timer,
and be like, I set a timer foran hour, I think I have fifteen
minutes left in me. So do youhave a sense of what your bodily
sensation might be when it getsclose to that time?
Dave Becker (42:18):
It's so funny. For me, it's just kind of like I'll
I'll I'll, like, kinda scan theroom, and I just it's hard to
describe even, like, physicallyhow it feels. Sometimes it's
that's the third beer that'sbeen spilled down my back. See
you later. Mhmm.
And then sometimes it's just,like, it's the way that people's
eyes kind of steam to me. Andthere's just kind of like I'm
(42:41):
very, like, engaging when I'mout. Like, I'll walk through the
room and there's eye contact andthere's, you know, this set. But
when I'm walking through a roomand there's just kind of this
void of, like, connection andemotion and, like, and and any
sort of, like it feels almostlike like life. It's like like
it starts to get, like, inzombieland in here.
That's when I kind of definitelystart to pull out. Or and,
(43:03):
again, it's just when when theroom starts to feel too tight
around my body, that's when I'mlike, if I there are certain
clubs and bars that, like, Ijust don't go to because they
have no space for me to chill.Like, I just there's no little
open pocket I know I can go andjust have a moment. And so when
(43:24):
when the pot and even if I gosomewhere go somewhere that,
like, really I know has thosespaces for me, and those spaces
are filled, that kind of, like,tightness, I'm like, mm-mm
mm-mm. No.
No. No.
Eric Bomyea (43:36):
Sounds like you are definitely more of, like, a
fruit fly. You like to do thefruit loop?
Dave Becker (43:40):
Absolutely. I'm a I have ADHD. I don't I can't stand
anywhere. I'm a corner king.
Eric Bomyea (43:46):
I'm gonna go find a spot, and I'm gonna camp out for
the entire night. I'm like, Youcan come to me. Like, I'm
holding court back.
Dave Becker (43:51):
Yep, absolutely.
Eric Bomyea (43:54):
So I think as we get towards the end of our
conversation, the last questionthat I have here is, what do you
think could make a moreinclusive queer social
landscape? What does one looklike, where both sober and non
sober folks can feel bothequally welcomed?
Dave Becker (44:13):
That's such a huge question. It's like, how would I
rewrite how people interact witheach other in queer space? It's
like I I feel like one of theplaces that I have found has
really actually been kind oflike the new bar, the new club,
(44:33):
the new place, the new thing isthe gay sports leagues here in
Boston. Because it is such anenormous collection of the full
rainbow of the LGBTQIA plusrepeating world. And it's a
place where, like, there isdrinking occasionally because
(44:54):
it's an outdoor whether it's,you know, whatever sport you do.
Like, I was in the kickballteam. And so, of course, like,
people are, like, cracking beersand stuff like that because
whatever. It's because becausesports. But but at the same
time, like, you're outside withqueer people, girls, boys,
theythem, everything in between.And you're having to you're
(45:18):
being forced to workcollectively.
And if you get too wasted, youcan't do that. You can't catch a
ball when you're drunk and andcrazy. And people who are high
on meth aren't outside in thesun. So it is really a wonderful
place where you can find exactlywho you're looking for to make
(45:41):
those connections and start thatlife. The the team that I so in
2020, because, again, bars andclubs and stuff were closed, I
was like, I have to be social.
I have to make friends. And Ijoined the kickball team in
August of twenty twenty, noteven a month after I was sober,
and just happened to join, like,the sober group. And our captain
(46:03):
was sober. This other girl thatwas on our team was sober. And
so anytime anyone on socialmedia asks me, like, whether
they're sober or not, like, I'mmoving to a new city.
What should I do? Like, where doI go? And I'm like, join a
sports team.
Timothy Bish (46:19):
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Dave Becker (46:20):
Like, it's just it is it's it's where it's at
because you can just I mean, I II was very lucky in that, again,
like, my group is very, like,non drinky, very but also, like,
you can find out. You can findthat. Like, you can create your
own. You can It's it's really agreat great great thing.
Timothy Bish (46:40):
I I have to. I I joined Gotham Volleyball in New
York City. Mhmm. It's a hugepart of my life for the, I don't
know, four and a half or fiveyears that I did it. And, you
know, when we talked earlierabout different manners of
engagement, one of the beautifulthings about a sport is, oh,
well, there are there's astructure to how we're going to
(47:01):
engage here.
And then it allowed forinteraction in that context.
You're like, when I'm playingvolleyball, even if we're gonna
have drinks later, we're notdrinking right now. Right. You
know, we when we have we have aclock and we have a score and
you know, and it allowed for thedevelopment of friendships in a
way that I thought was soamazing. I love it so much.
(47:25):
So if golf and volleyball islistening, thank you so much for
being an incredible organizationbecause it just like, it was
healthy, fun, playful,different. And then people were
free to go to the barafterwards, which we often did.
But I would I would argue my ownpersonal experience at the bar
was that it was a littledifferent having had just done a
(47:47):
thing that we all agreed to. Andthe only time the the, you know,
the only time I ever got reallyfrustrated in Gotham volleyball
was when I recognized on onethis person would show up
hungover. I wasn't mad that theywere hungover, but I'm like, but
I joined because I lovevolleyball, and we're a team.
So if you can't play, thenyou're impacting my ability to
play. And I just wanna play. Andmost of the people were like,
(48:10):
most of the people there werelike, we all really like
volleyball. Like, I don't youknow, I was in Yeah. I was in,
like, the the, like, thedivisions that weren't actually
that good.
So, like, we're not winning,like, Olympic gold medals here,
but I'm like but I I still wannagive it my 100. I wanna try
really hard, and I wanna sweat,and I wanna cheer, and I wanna
do all the things. And it'sincredible. So golf and
(48:32):
volleyball and then whateverthere was a Boston team that
came down one time that I met,but I know there's a Boston
volleyball league too. Right?
Dave Becker (48:39):
They're they have everything. Yeah. They have
volleyball. They havebasketball. They have kickball.
They have softball. They havetennis. They have chess. They
have pool. They have everything.
Timothy Bish (48:50):
Cool.
Dave Becker (48:51):
It's crazy. And it's it's also like something so
wonderful to be said to to lookout on that field and be like, I
guarantee you, 99% of everyperson on this field got picked
last in gym class. Mhmm. And nowhere we are kicking ass and
taking names. That's right.
And it's it's it's definitely,like, just there's something to
(49:12):
be said too for, like, itplaying a sport and getting
involved in a game, like, pullsyour ego away. You can't just,
like, stand and model and lookcute. Like, you gotta get in
there. And and that peoplereally people's true selves come
out so much faster and so muchlike, your real personality
really shines when you're, like,in a situation where, again,
(49:33):
you're right. You're all doingthe same thing, you're gonna
bring your A game to the table,and that's really gonna show
people who you are.
And I think that's one of myfavorite things too. It's like
Eric Bomyea (49:41):
There's such power in an environment that creates a
container that has structure andhas intention. Everyone is
showing up with doesn't have tobe the exact same intention, but
a similar flavor of intention oflike, I'm here to play. Right? I
like line dancing here in townon Wednesday nights with
(50:03):
Francis. I don't get to go allthe time, but it is one of my
favorite activities because weare all coming with the same
purpose.
Dave Becker (50:08):
Mhmm.
Eric Bomyea (50:09):
Here to line dance.
Timothy Bish (50:11):
Mhmm.
Eric Bomyea (50:11):
Not here to party. I'm not here to cruise. I'm here
to dance. It's what I'm herefor. It really helps me to rest
to put that that, like, acidreflux feeling at bay.
Dave Becker (50:24):
Mhmm.
Eric Bomyea (50:25):
Because I'm like, we're all just here with the
same purpose in mind. Like tojust wrap up and say that all of
my life experiences that thatled to me to sobriety, I do not
regret. They were a gift to meto help me be here where I am
today. And my sobriety is now agift as well. And it has helped
(50:45):
me to look at the world in adifferent way.
It has helped me to navigate theworld in a different way, giving
myself a lot more compassion. Alittle bit more compassion as
well. I still am very much anangsty teenager at heart. I work
with that every day. And it hasreally helped me to settle more
(51:09):
So it is a gift.
Dave Becker (51:10):
Yeah. And it's definitely something that my
teenagers have asked me beforetoo. It's like, what know, if
you go back and look back atyour life, what would you
change? I was like, I'm afraidif I change anything, I wouldn't
be where I am right now. So,like, probably nothing.
Eric Bomyea (51:21):
Well, this this time together was also a gift.
You know? Thank you very muchfor for being here, sharing your
story, sharing yourvulnerability with us. It's
deeply appreciated. So
Dave Becker (51:30):
Thank you very much for having me.
Timothy Bish (51:31):
I would just like to say I've had the opportunity
to be and connect with a lot ofsober people over a long period
of time. I think initially, andI was in a gay men's, like,
artistic therapy group, and itturned out that some of the men
were in there. And I reallyadmired the shared vocabulary.
(51:53):
And I remember when I because Iwas so young at the time, and
I'm like, oh, one guy was ableto speak to another guy so
quickly to to provideperspective. I'm like, that's
really powerful.
But the other thing so what I'venoticed then is I think that
sobriety is a practice. Right?Mhmm. Totally. And when we think
of it from, like, you know,yogic, shamanic, embodiment,
(52:13):
you're like, well, it's apractice.
And so when you are deeplysteeped in a practice, then you
start to understand the value ofa practiced life in all sort of
levels. Right? So this is why,you know, yogis practice on
their mat. They're in apractice. Now that is meant to
trickle into their life.
And so I just wanna kind ofbring that to the to the
(52:36):
forefront because the value ofpractice, whatever the practice
is for you, can betransformational. And from my
perspective, I'm not a soberperson, but from my perspective,
what I've observed is thatsobriety is a practice that then
informs the rest of your life.And we could make anything a
practice if it is intentional,purposeful, and mindful, and
(52:59):
then it can transform your life.So, like, is sobriety powerful?
Yes.
Is embodiment powerful? Yes.Yoga and shamanism?
Eric Bomyea (53:07):
Like, yes. Yes.
Timothy Bish (53:08):
And so what is your practice?
Eric Bomyea (53:09):
I don't I don't have eight hundred and fifty
five total days sober. I haveeight hundred and fifty five
individual days. Right? Like,every day is a practice. Every
single day is a different day.
Just like when we were doing acold plunge. Right? Tim and I
did cold plunges last winterevery single day.
Dave Becker (53:30):
Oh my god.
Timothy Bish (53:32):
Ago. Two winters ago. Yeah. Okay.
Eric Bomyea (53:33):
And, like, every day is different. Every day is a
different experience. And youcan have a streak going on. And
all of a sudden, day 75 feelslike the most miserable day.
Right?
You're like, wait, wait. Ithought this built onto each
other. No. It's a practice.Every single day is gonna be
(53:55):
different.
Every experience is gonna be alittle different. Just keep at
it.
Dave Becker (53:58):
Exactly. And that's one of the things that AA always
says is like one day at a time,and that's an even more eloquent
way of putting it. It's justlike sometimes it's gonna be day
75 is gonna be way harder thanday four.
Eric Bomyea (54:10):
Totally. Mhmm. And then just day 76 is like, this
is the easiest day of my life.What what's going
Dave Becker (54:15):
on here? Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
Eric Bomyea (54:17):
It's a practice, not a perfect. Yes. Mhmm. Yes.
Alright.
Well, with that, I'm feelingvery complete. We'll just do a
round robin. Tim, how are youfeeling? I feel complete. And
Dave?
Dave Becker (54:27):
I feel complete.
Eric Bomyea (54:28):
Tim, will you take a sample? I will.
Timothy Bish (54:30):
Let's close our eyes. Take a deep inhale through
the nose. Soft exhale throughthe mouth. And it is with deep
appreciation and gratitude forany insights, awarenesses,
understandings that may havebeen gained in this shared
sacred space that we now releasethe archetypes and the spirits
that we called in. And withthese bars are containers open
(54:50):
but not broken.
Dave Becker (54:54):
Wow.
Welcome back to The Circle, the podcast where we go
all in on men's work, embodimentpractices, and personal growth
from our queer perspective. Ifyou're enjoying the show, please
be sure to leave a review, rate,and subscribe. And if you have a
question about anything you'veheard us talk about, please send
us a message. We'd love to hearfrom you. Now on to today's
show.
Today, we're exploring how wegather, connect, and celebrate
(00:26):
as queer people, and what itlooks like to do that in ways
that feel aligned, authentic,and alive. For many of us,
especially in queer spaces,drinking and partying have long
been part of how we find eachother, but they're not the only
way. We're joined by DaveBecker, a gymnastics coach and
the founder of Sober Gay Sunday,a social group and podcast that
creates space for queer folks inrecovery. Dave shares his
(00:47):
personal journey and how beingin and building up community
without substance opened up newways of being seen, having fun,
and feeling free. Whether you'resober, curious, or just
reflecting on how you show up incommunity, this one's for you.
Tim, Dave, are you ready to goall in? I'm ready.
Dave Becker (01:02):
Absolutely.
Eric Bomyea (01:04):
Awesome. Dave, it's so good to have you on the
podcast today. How are you too?
Dave Becker (01:07):
Very good. Very good. I'm really happy to be
here. That was a great intro.You have a great podcast voice
too.
So Thank you. Thank
Eric Bomyea (01:15):
you. I appreciate that. So in listening to your
own podcast, I heard you talkabout how finding sober
community changed your life. SoI'm wondering if you can take us
back to what life was likebefore that shift. What were
some of the early experiencesthat shaped both your identity
as a gay man and your pathtowards sobriety?
Dave Becker (01:32):
That's that's we're going back away. So I'm 40 years
old now, and I started, youknow, in the gay community back
early two thousands when I hadjust turned 18. So one of the
things that I think a lot of ushave to lean on when we first
come into the community is,like, the bar scene and the
(01:53):
party scene, because that'swhere the majority of our
community meet. And for me, itwas one of those things where I
was coming from a small town inMassachusetts. I was anxious, a
very anxious person.
And when I first startedengaging in in the gay nightlife
(02:15):
in Boston, alcohol made me feelreal special, real good, real
involved, real you know, I'm I'msure most of us have a similar
situation and similar experiencewhere you become kind of at that
time, what you think is, like,the better version of yourself.
And again, to be surrounded byqueer people for the first time
(02:37):
when you're young is just theseso much it's so exciting. And
then to add alcohol on top ofthat is just a whirlwind for a
young person. I have a verysupportive family, very
supportive community back homewhere I where I grew up. I was
on the girls gymnastics team inhigh school, so, like, people
(02:58):
were not surprised.
And and so even for me assomeone who had a really
accepting background acceptinghome, I still really relied
heavily on alcohol to get myselfthrough, like, the social
existence of a gay of being agay person. So and from the very
(03:20):
beginning, was go. Go. Go. Go.
Go. I mean, out Thursday,Friday, Saturday, Sunday as soon
as I was able to, you know, assoon as I was able to go out
when I was 21. And that justkind of snowballed into, you
know, come becoming a circuitboy and getting to the involved
in drugs with that. And thenfrom there, just the addiction
(03:44):
took me over. And once theaddiction had kind of had me, I
had I led a very stark doublelife of, like, social gay boy
and then the dark side ofcrystal meth.
So and then from there, it justgot so it got bad. I mean, that
that drug especially isincredibly insidious. And it it
(04:08):
got to the point where it waslike, you know, I had to choose
sobriety or I was just gonnacontinue to use until I wasted
away. So
Timothy Bish (04:15):
I'm gonna jump in here because I I heard you say
something, and you werespeaking, I think, specifically
about drinking in the moment.Yep. You talked about it
initially like, oh, where you'reat this bar, and it feels good.
And you kind of feel this, like,what's felt like a heightened
experience. Later, you mentionedthen using it to kind of manage
(04:35):
your navigation.
And I wonder if you could makethat distinction, like talk a
little bit about that, because Ithink one can turn into the
other. We're like, oh, well,maybe I feel a little buzzed.
Maybe that's fun. Mhmm. And thenit transitions into, well, now I
need this social lubricant toeven exist in this space.
Can you speak to that a littlebit?
Dave Becker (04:55):
Definitely. I think they not even necessarily just,
like, lead into the other, butgo very much hand in hand. Like,
when you're experiencing the gayworld for the first time and you
you do some a lot of us needthat social lubrication just to
get in the door and then to thenget the feeling of, you know,
feeling great and feeling socialand feeling, you know, accepted
(05:19):
and feeling outgoing, that thenkind of loops back into needing
the alcohol or the drugs tocontinue that cycle. So I I
think it's it's like a it's likea horrible little, like, loop.
Mhmm.
And one comes it's like chickenor the egg situation. You know?
And it it's it's even, you know,friends I've had since I was 18
(05:43):
years old going out for thefirst time still, you know, will
be like, oh, I I need I don'tunderstand how you go out
without having a cocktail orhaving a, you know, whatever
else. It's it's it's notnecessarily something you even
grow out of until it getsbecomes a problem, I think.
Timothy Bish (05:58):
Yeah. I think that there's the idea of it feeling
good, but I imagine that can bekind of complicated because I
have to imagine at times, itfeels good to not be terrified
to be here.
Eric Bomyea (06:08):
Could be part of the feeling good, right? So very
similar to my first experiencegoing to a gay bar, I was
terrified. I was so terrified tobe there because it was an
admission. It was an admissionto myself that this is the space
that I want to be in. And so, Irelied on alcohol to help to
(06:29):
calm some of those jitters.
And then I opened up and beganto have a good time. So it does
become a chicken or an egg,right? Because I started to calm
down, and then the feeling thatI was chasing then was this
euphoric, I belong, this is funfeeling. And I associated it
with alcohol. And then later onother drugs as well.
(06:51):
And then it really does becomethat chasing of, for me anyway,
the chasing of that, thatperpetual high of like, oh, the
first couple times that I wentout, I was feeling in this head
space. I was feeling like Ibelonged, and everything was
fun, and the the consistentthere was my reliance on on
alcohol to get me there.
Dave Becker (07:08):
Absolutely. 100. And it's it's in any kind of
situation with drugs and alcoholthat you're almost always
chasing that first time. Like,even when you move into the
harder stuff, like, it's justlike that first time for most of
us is is really what getschased. So that's absolutely
makes sense.
Eric Bomyea (07:26):
You talked a little bit about queer nightlife. So
what was your relationship liketo the queer nightlife in social
spaces before sobriety? Youtalked about going out
frequently, like, what what didthat create within your social
structure and
Dave Becker (07:40):
So when I first started going out, when I was 18
years old in Boston, you werestill could go to some of the 18
plus clubs, which does
Eric Bomyea (07:47):
Like a machine.
Dave Becker (07:48):
Yep. And access on Lansdowne Street. And I was
lucky enough to have a boyfriendwhen I was that age that was
very helpful in kind of helpingme traverse the gay world for
the very first time. He was sucha good teacher. Everything from,
you know, where to go out tojust like queer culture and and
(08:12):
some of the more physical sexualstuff, obviously.
It was just this I had thisreally great teacher for the
first two years of being outbecause I just met a really
wonderful person who was able tokind of guide me through. But
initially, was, you know, justgoing out once a week with, you
know, my boyfriend and myfriends, and then I made an
enormous amount of of friendsgoing out. And especially being
(08:33):
that it was the early twothousands, it was right at the
beginning of when manhunt andonline dating was kind of
starting to show itself. So wehad to go out to meet people. We
had to go out to make friends.
I mean, we had Myspace ish atthe very beginning of that.
Like, we're just slowly gettingcreeping into the to what it is
(08:56):
now, which is just completelyinundating our our gay culture
is crazy. But and then onceHipman and I broke up, I just
continued having these enormousfriend groups and all meeting
all these people, and and and itjust kinda kept going for most
of my adult life, was having areally strong, big group of
(09:17):
friends that were all involvedwith gay nightlife in Boston.
And for a long time, it wasreally great. It was really
wonderful.
And and it it slowly after awhile when you you kind of move
through to the the groups thatare really into drugs and
drinking and going out andthat's kind of their whole
existence, I I I unfortunatelykind of slid into that type of
(09:41):
group in towards the end of mytwenties and my early thirties.
And that's when, like, theaddiction really kind of, like,
really, really stuck and really,really hit was when you get
involved with people who arejust party boys. I mean, they
look great, but that's a lot.
Timothy Bish (09:57):
But they're but they're they're seeking
something. We're all seekingsomething. And I'm just curious,
do you have a sense of what itis we're seeking and what it is
we're missing that then we kindof bring substance into to help
fill?
Dave Becker (10:12):
Well, I think every single gay person has a
proverbial chip on theirshoulder from growing up
different. And it depends oneach person how big that chip is
and how much you need to fill itand how much you try to fill it.
And so every single person onthis planet it doesn't matter.
It's everyone seeks connection.And so even if you were growing
(10:34):
up as, like, you know, on thefootball team, but you were gay
or you were a little, you know,part of my French would faggot,
like, you have a sense in theback of your mind that every
move you make as a young personis different than your straight
counterparts.
And that's trauma. That'straumatizing for a child. That's
(10:57):
traumatizing for a young adult.As you said earlier, I coach
gymnastics, and I work with agestwo to 18. And it's such a being
a child sucks.
Like, being a teenager sucksworse. And that's when you're
trying to figure yourself outand you have this secret. Like,
holding a secret makes you sickinside. And even for me, who had
(11:21):
again, I've has an amazinglysupportive family. My dad grew
up in New York City and workedin theater.
Like, he knew. He knew. It's apicture of me at five years old
in my gymnastics outfit forwhere we took gymnastics
pictures, and my little fingeris just dropped ever so
slightly. And my dad sent the mymy gymnastics pictures to my
(11:45):
aunt who lives in California,and she looked at this picture
and she says, I really have tocome out as a lesbian to the
family so that this little onedoesn't have as much trouble as
he might. She put the little gayass picture down.
She'd call my dad. And so thesupport was there, but I still
felt so alone, like, at school,alone at gymnastics, alone at
(12:09):
any any activity because I wasjust different. And so every
single person is trying to fixthat inner child. And that's one
of the big things that peopleturn to drugs and alcohol for.
Timothy Bish (12:22):
I really feel like my experience in the men's
workspace is that we are alllooking for more connection,
more belonging, more authenticinteraction. And then I think
based on what you just said,that mirrors my own personal
experience, queer people have a,maybe a higher mountain decline
(12:42):
with regards because we havefelt so different and so
othered. And so one of the magiccomponents of the circle that
we've created and this men'swork and embodiment work is the
opportunity for a new kind ofconnection, a new kind of
intimacy. Mhmm. And I and I itdoes hurt my heart sometimes
when I think that we we exist ina community that doesn't
(13:03):
necessarily know other ways ofdoing it.
This is the way that we youknow, I remember when I was, you
know, a freshman in at NYU, theway you met people were to go to
queer spaces, and most of thosequeer spaces were bars.
Dave Becker (13:16):
Mhmm.
Timothy Bish (13:16):
I do remember the big cup, which doesn't exist
anymore, but it was a coffeeshop. But but it was still a
place where you like, you neededto have some money, you needed
to have you you know, there werecertain requirements. And so I
feel like our community isbegging for other resources,
ways of communicating and andconnecting that aren't
necessarily this one thing.
Eric Bomyea (13:39):
On that topic, I have a question for you, Dave,
about as somebody that was soingrained into the nightlife and
the circuit scene, did you shiftonce you got sober? What were
those how did thoserelationships continue or end?
How did your relationship withgoing out shift or change?
Dave Becker (14:00):
So I was lucky in the sense that my sober date is
July 2020.
Eric Bomyea (14:09):
It's Timmy's birthday.
Dave Becker (14:10):
Hey. Hey. Well, there you go. So I couldn't go
out when I got sober. Pandemic.
Yeah. Was in the middle ofpandemic. And and clubs were all
closed. You know, therestaurants had all their
whatever rules. So for me, itforced me to stay in and do the
work on myself with my sobercoach and my therapist and and
(14:32):
to step away from the nightlifescene and from all that stuff
because then no one could doanything.
And I was very fortunate that itwas kind of a a really hard
limit for that the world had puton me. So one of the things I
did to get myself sober andreally stay sober was to jump on
(14:53):
not to sound like a millennial,but I jumped on social media and
really made myself incrediblylike, I made it incredibly
public. Like, I was like it wassober this, sober that. I was
checking in. I was posting onevery sober date, you know, two
months, three months, fourmonths, five months, six months.
So then by the time that theworld opened up, which was
(15:16):
Memorial Day of twenty twentyone, the the clubs opened up and
I was like, alright. Like, herewe go. Let's do this. Let's go
out with my roommates, go outwith my friends. And I really
didn't know what to expect.
And I went out, and every singleperson that I saw congratulated
me on my sobriety. I mean, someof them had pupils the size of
(15:39):
dinner plates at the time. Itwas kind nonetheless. And I
wasn't sure what people weregonna do, and I wasn't sure
what, like, all my circuitbuddies were gonna say, what
they were gonna and it was justthis incredible amount,
overwhelming amount of support.Because you can you can post and
you can tag and you can whateveras much as you want online, but
(16:01):
for me, that's like that it'snot as tangible no matter how
many likes you get, it's not astangible as face to face
interaction with people reallybeing incredibly kind.
And it was again, like, I'vebeen going out in the city since
I was 18 years old, so I know alot of people, and it was just
every single person.Congratulations. You're doing
(16:21):
great.
Eric Bomyea (16:22):
It's really beautiful, because I sometimes
get very cynical. So refreshingto hear that community can
embrace who it is that we aretrying to be, who it is we're
trying to manifest in thisworld. So by what I heard you
say is by claiming your identityso publicly and vocally, saying,
(16:43):
I am sober, it then gotreflected back to you,
community, to say, You aresober, and congratulations. And
it's moments like that thatreally help soothe my cynical
side, that our queer communityreally is embracing and
accepting when you call out youridentity. And so I just I just
wanted to take a moment.
Dave Becker (17:03):
Yeah. And one of the things that really surprises
me, especially when I started mygroup, Sober Gay Sunday, is the
community that aren't soberwould give me sober friends'
names. Like, I'd be out dancingwith my friends, and my friends
were like, oh my goodness. Youhave to meet this person.
They're sober.
You're sober. Let's go. And Igot a ton of people just from
(17:24):
that. And, again, to kinda goout into, like, a non sober
space and to have people belike, oh, you're the Sobercase
Sunday guy. Like, I know thisperson.
You should talk to them. This isthis. This is this. So it's
really been a really, reallyincredible to to have such an
amazing response to somethinglike that.
Timothy Bish (17:41):
I mean, this is all very uplifting. And I have
to imagine that there are somepeople who don't have the luxury
of that exact experience. And Iwonder if you could speak a
little bit to the person who ismaking this choice in their life
and maybe are met withconfusion, abandonment,
misunderstanding, any number ofthings, and how they might like,
(18:04):
what advice might you give themto stay strong in their journey?
Dave Becker (18:07):
I mean, I I think finding any connection with
anybody that is that is goingthrough something similar to
yourself is gonna be reallyhelpful. I fell a lot into
listening to podcasts once I gotsober because, again, world was
closed down, so, like, hearingsober voices and sober queer
voices was very, very helpful.There was this podcast called
(18:30):
The Sober Gay that was that wason at that time, and then there
was a bunch of other ones that Ijust sat and listened to when I
was, you know, walking to workor going to, you know, the gym
or whatever. Was something thathaving this having someone talk
to you in your ear that has beenthrough what you've been through
or is going through what you'regoing through can be very
helpful if you don't have, like,the luxury of having a
(18:52):
connection to a community orconnection to other sober queer
people. I listened to a coupleof girls called The Seltzer
Squad for a while, and and it'sit's it just helps to hear that
there's people going through iteverywhere.
We tend to sometimes forgetabout the fact that we're that
we're not alone when it comes tolike, one of the best pieces of
(19:16):
advice that I ever got from mysober coach about a month into
my sobriety was, no matter howbad you think it's gone or how
bad you think it is, someone hasdone something 10 times worse
than you. And then on the laststop of their book tour about
it, like, you're gonna be okay.So sometimes we just think our
situation and our lives are sobad that it helps sometimes to
(19:41):
hear every side of the of thestory from everybody else.
Eric Bomyea (19:45):
A little perspective can go a long way to
to help ground you in thereality of like, oh, this is
this is my situation. Doesn'tmake it any less, you know, big,
but it maybe makes it a littlebit more manageable.
Timothy Bish (19:59):
I think what I'm hearing that I think is so
important is this idea ofmeeting people or connecting
with people who can relate toyou and have a similar, like,
shared experience. And I'm gonnashare a story of my own. It has
nothing to do with sobriety, butwith my brain surgery. And after
my brain surgery, it was I washaving a really, really tough
time. And I remember I workedwas an acupuncturist, I worked
(20:21):
right next to Boxers, the bar inChelsea.
I was just really I was justreally sad and feeling very
alone. And so I'm like, well,I'm gonna go in here, and I'm
gonna have a beer, I'm gonna,like, watch different TV and
just I don't know what I waslooking for. Anyway, that's not
the point. I sit down. I seeacross the room of this person
with whom I had performed.
And initially, I was like, ohgod, like, now I have to, like,
(20:43):
make small talk. It's, like, notwhat I want. But I do like this
person. I actually, like, deeplylove this person. And so they
come over, they start chattingwith me, And I real they start
sharing.
They're like, how are you? AndI'm like, I'm not great. Like,
I'm really going through itright now. I had a brain
surgery. La la la.
They're like, oh, well, I had anopen heart surgery. I've felt
similar things. And then we hadthis conversation. I remember,
(21:06):
because I was still usingFacebook at the time, I walked
out and my status update waslike, was saved by an angel
tonight. Because I just neededsomeone who understood the
severity of, like, we didn'thave the same procedure, but the
severity of what I was goingthrough.
And and it came to me. And itwas so healing. So I think one
of the takeaways is that sharedexperience is really powerful.
(21:30):
Really, really powerful. Becauseit can feel very isolating
otherwise.
I felt very alone till suddenlythis person was like, I've had
Eric Bomyea (21:36):
a similar thing. Like, when we can see ourselves
in others and when people canvalidate our experiences and
existence, it really help makeit much more manageable. And
this even goes back to my firsttime in a gay bar. It was that.
It was like, oh, I'm less alone.
And it was that elation, thatrelief of like, oh, I do, there
(22:02):
are other people like me.
Dave Becker (22:04):
Yeah. It's very it's it it makes such a
difference. It's insane. It'slike because again, we get very
much in our own heads like noone else can possibly
understand. And very negativeself talk, it's kinda takes
over.
And then you the end of a bar ofsomeone that's going through
something very similar and thereit is.
Eric Bomyea (22:21):
Yeah. So you've mentioned your sober coach twice
now. So I'm just curious, whatis a sober coach? How did you
find them? Did you learn besidesthis amazing perspective shift
that they gave you?
Dave Becker (22:35):
So I met my sober coach actually. So sober coach
is someone who is coaches youthrough sobriety, not unlike a,
like, a life coach or, like,it's not necessarily someone
that is a clinical psychologistor psychiatrist, something like
that. It's someone who is justthere to help other people who
are going through the soberjourney.
Timothy Bish (22:56):
Can we pause for a second? Yeah. There isn't a is
there's an AA equivalent. Right?With what is the
Dave Becker (23:03):
Sponsor?
Timothy Bish (23:04):
Sponsor. I know. So, yeah, if we could talk a
little bit about, like, ifthey're the same or if not, how
they're different.
Dave Becker (23:09):
Yeah. So, yeah, like, so a sober coach is
someone who kind of coaches youthrough your sobriety and your
sober experience, you know,unlike a sponsor in AA, someone
who's just gonna hold your handand lead you through and get you
know, if you're doing AA or NA,you do the steps. And if you're
not, you just talk it out andget it. So my my sober coach was
(23:33):
somebody that I used to go andhook up with after I would party
all night. And he was this olderguy and obviously, we met on the
apps, you know, whatever.
So and there was a moment fewyears before I got sober where I
was, you know, you were finishedor whatever. And he said he just
(23:54):
looked at me and he said,whenever you figure this out and
you need someone, call me. And Iwas like, you don't know me.
Whatever. Like, see you.
You don't know me. So the the
Eric Bomyea (24:11):
I've I'm pretty sure I've said those exact
phrases in a exact tone before.
Dave Becker (24:16):
Like, so I mean, I every time I am do impressions
of myself as a younger person,I'm such a bitch. Yeah. I'm
like, what? So the morning thatI had kind of hit my rock bottom
and it was time, he was thefirst person I thought of and
did exactly as he said. I said Icalled him right up, and he
(24:37):
picked up the phone.
He said, you figured it out,didn't you? And I was like, yes.
Like, let it all come out. Andso, you know, he he he said,
alright. Let's meet up thisweek, and let's talk about what,
you know, what's what the nextsteps are for you and what
happened and and all that.
So I worked with him for about amonth until I could get in with
(25:02):
therapist. And then I workedkind of primarily with the
therapist from then on out. Buthe was just instrumental in I
needed somebody that I knew andtrusted and was there and and
wasn't a a stranger that wasgoing that I have to, like,
start fresh with. You know whatI mean? It was just he knew
(25:23):
because I was high on drugs,texting him at six in the
morning to, you know, getfucked.
And and so he was like and hehimself had gone through crystal
meth addiction. And he so heknew what was going on and what
what the world was like. Sothat's my experience with a
sober coach. And it was, again,it was instrumental because we
(25:45):
just kinda started right in withthe hard work. Being mentors
Eric Bomyea (25:51):
who have had walked the path before and who can help
guide and monitor withoutpushing, it sounds like this
person never pushed on you toget sober. They were not preachy
about it. They just said, hey. Isee you.
Dave Becker (26:07):
Mhmm.
Eric Bomyea (26:07):
And I am here when you're ready. So I'm just gonna
acknowledge that I see thatthere's something happening,
judging you, pushing you, sayingI'm here if there's ever a time.
Dave Becker (26:18):
Mhmm. It was yeah. It was exactly that. Didn't make
me feel like shit. Just knew.
Eric Bomyea (26:25):
And that is that is so powerful in all situations in
life to have somebody that canjust, like, be there for you
without judgment. It's such agift. And so I want to talk
about the gift that you've giventhe world with your community
and podcast of Sober GaySundays. So curious, what
(26:46):
inspired you to start that, andwhat kind of community are you
building through that space?
Dave Becker (26:52):
So because I I had felt really inspired by
listening to podcasts when I wasgetting sober for the first
time, I wanted to kind of pay itforward, and I wanted to bring
that that light into otherpeople's life by just getting
people to tell their stories andgetting people out there. And
(27:17):
it's it's not it's it's not itwas very humbling for me because
I had listened to, you know,podcasts coming out of coming
into my sobriety. But to, like,sit there sit there face to face
with someone who is, like,telling you their whole life
story and their soul soberjourney, some of the things that
(27:38):
I heard from my guests was justshocking. And, I mean, I'd have
to, like after the after the Iclosed the laptop and be like
like, woah. And do it wasencouraging to me to keep going
and to be sober and be strongfor these, because because it's
every person I had, I felt likeI took under my wing.
(28:00):
And I every person I I talked tofelt like they became part of my
little family. And so it reallymade me feel like I was giving
back. And at the time when Istarted it, I I couldn't find a
lot of queer centric, soberpodcasts. It's a lot more now,
which is great, and I love that.But it's one of the first things
(28:27):
I said at one of my first sobergay Sunday meetup events was the
queer sober experience is sounique.
And even you could do and andand drink as much as the the
straight person next to you, butthe queer experience is just a
little bit different. And thatwas one of the big things that I
(28:51):
wanted to give a voice to, wasthe queer experience.
Eric Bomyea (28:55):
Can we unpack that a little bit? What, in your
opinion, makes the queer soberexperience so unique?
Dave Becker (29:01):
I feel like we have such a similar kinda going back
to the proverbial chip on theshoulder Mhmm. Growing up. That
is such a seed toward towardsaddiction in itself. And so
every single queer person thatis going through addiction has
that issue from the verybeginning. And a lot of times,
(29:25):
that is what causes addiction totake hold.
Of course, there's a millionother different things that are,
you know, part of the slipperyslide of addiction, but we can
all understand that we have thatchip from being kids, and we are
(29:45):
still under incredible pressuresfrom the outside world about
just being queer and being ofthis community. And, you know,
you're you're I think thatstraight allies are incredibly
important. I'm not downplayingthat at all, and I'm not
downplaying anyone's experience.It's just that your straight
(30:06):
sober friends are still livingin the straight world and have
different pressures, but we havean umbrella of pressure over us
that every single queer personcan relate to. And so that
weaves into the fabric of ouraddictive past, present, and
(30:27):
future in a way that a straightcounterpart just doesn't
understand and can't understand.
It's like I can't understandbeing a black queer sober
person. I cannot understandbecause they you know, people
who are of ethnic minoritieshave even more piled on top of
(30:48):
them than me who's a cisgenderwhite male. So it's the same
kind of thing for straight toqueer relationships when it
comes to sobriety, in myopinion.
Eric Bomyea (30:58):
I I found similar where going out again has
sometimes been liberating andeasy, and other times has been
incredibly challenging becauseof this chip on my shoulder of
like, do I fit in? Is theresomething wrong with me? Why am
I different? If I go out to Tdance, everyone has a a rum
(31:23):
punch in their hand, and I'msitting there, like, trembling
from anxiety because I don'tknow how to, like, handle
myself, I feel I feel reallyalone. And I don't know how to
myself, so I run.
Dave Becker (31:33):
Which is fine. Like, I mean, honestly, that is
a hundred percent one of thosethings where that is a perfectly
accepting acceptable copingmechanism. Pulling yourself out
of a situation where you don'tfeel safe, secure, and
wonderful. I I have very oftenone of the things I do before I
(31:56):
go out is I tell myself, if itgets crazy in there, I'm just
leaving.
Eric Bomyea (32:03):
Therapist likes to remind me. He's like, you can
set yourself a timer. Yeah. Onehour. Mhmm.
You can do it for one hour andthen check-in with yourself. And
if I'm if I don't have thestamina for an hour, set the
timer for thirty minutes. I'vebeen plenty of times. And this
is even at sober parties, mindyou, where I will set a timer.
I'm like, how long can I dothis?
Mhmm.
Dave Becker (32:23):
Well,
Eric Bomyea (32:23):
sometimes the cap is thirty minutes.
Dave Becker (32:25):
Seriously. That's and that's like I mean, I agree.
Trust me. I plan sober events,and it's just like sometimes I'm
like, I really wish I wasn't incharge of this because I would
really like to be there. Yeah.
But what what I what I used todo, like, especially when it was
like I was first going back outto the clubs is and this this
can be used for anybody, but Iwould I would I would order 25
(32:49):
Dunkin' Donuts munchkins, and Iwould eat half before I left,
and I would leave half. So whenI was out and I really wasn't
feeling it, I could just belike, oh my god. My munchkins
are waiting for me and I'm out.And I go home and I would eat
them to the point where, like,all my circuit friends that I
would, you know, was able tohang out with again would be
(33:11):
like, are you going home withyour munchkins, baby? And
they're like, yep.
Munchkins are waiting.
Timothy Bish (33:14):
Yeah.
Dave Becker (33:14):
See you. But I always tell people who are going
out for the first time, like, ifif if you really feel in your
heart that it's not feeling likea safe place, it's not feeling
good, it's not feeling and thereason is doesn't matter.
Leaving is so much safer thantrying to push through.
Eric Bomyea (33:35):
And I just wanna chime in here that it has
nothing to do with other people.Other like, it is my nervous
system that feels unsafe. It isnot anything anyone is doing.
It's not the rum punches. Right?
Right. Not it's not that. It'smy nervous system.
Dave Becker (33:50):
Right.
Eric Bomyea (33:50):
And, like, it's honoring that.
Timothy Bish (33:52):
Mhmm.
Eric Bomyea (33:53):
Right? Like, my nervous system does not feel
safe. That's it.
Dave Becker (33:56):
Right. Exactly.
Eric Bomyea (33:57):
How can I honor that and respect where I am?
Dave Becker (33:59):
And some people just can't go back out. And
that's fine. Because I've hadmany people who tell me even,
like, you know, I had twentyfive years of sobriety and
they're like, I just can't goout. I just don't feel like it's
a good place for me. And that'sthat's fine.
Yeah. It's completely fine.
Eric Bomyea (34:20):
My my first year, I really pushed myself to go out
because I wanted to, like,challenge myself to do it. I
actually worked at a bar as wellduring that time. So bar back,
and I was like, I'm gonna putmyself into the pit of it. I'm
just gonna go all in. And it wasa good challenge, it helped keep
me focused and gave me like asense of purpose of like, Oh,
(34:43):
I'm gonna do this.
I'm gonna get through this bylike, exposure therapy. And then
year two hit, and all thatcrumbled around me. I developed
an incredible amount of socialanxiety going out. And it really
I've worked through this with mytherapist that I think what the
(35:04):
first couple times that I wasgoing out, even drinking, I
didn't feel safe in thoseenvironments. And that was why I
reached for drugs and alcohol.
There was something in mynervous system that said, The
bar scene is not for me, is notfor my nervous system. I get
(35:26):
overstimulated very quickly,don't deal well, not being able
to know people on an intimatelevel. My voice is a beautiful
podcasting voice. Tim likes tosay that I have to speak up a
lot because I have bedroomvoice, which means that it does
With love. Yes.
It does not travel in loudenvironments.
Dave Becker (35:47):
No. A low register I'm a trained singer too, so a
low register does not cutthrough high pitched noise.
Eric Bomyea (35:53):
And so a lot of times in those environments, I'm
trying to make my voice beheard, and I can't. It starts to
send me in, in, in, and then Iwould just throw back 15 drinks
and however much cocaine I couldstick up my nose to try to even
muscle through. And then whenall that was removed and I went
(36:14):
out, I was like, Oh, thisfeeling is still there. Oh, this
may just not be my environment.
Dave Becker (36:19):
My boyfriend's the same way. My boyfriend was a
bartender at The Crown twosummers ago, and then he worked
at Presque. But going outtogether, like, he is like,
we're, like, he's the same way.He's like, I can last ten
minutes maybe. I don't wannascream at people.
I don't wanna yell. He has adeep voice too, so I'm always
like I'm like, I I can't evenfucking hear you.
Timothy Bish (36:40):
Yeah. Know.
Dave Becker (36:41):
I'm like, I'm sober as anybody. Like, we went to
purgatory, he was like, fifteenminutes. Yeah. That's all we
get. I was like, okay.
Okay. Okay. Okay. But it's Iit's one of those places, you
know, those things again. It'slike, for me, it's like when the
room starts when, like, thewitching hour is at its peak and
(37:02):
everyone is just so in theirdrugs and in their drink and in
their, like, it's not cuteanymore, the first whiff of
that, I'm out of here.
Because then it just gets thatis, like, just before it gets,
like, messy and people start tospill drinks on you or stumble
(37:23):
into you or, like, for me, it'slike when that stuff starts to
happen and I have no control ofthe room in the sense of, like,
people's just people justbanging into me and it's just
like my space feels small,that's for me. It's like, see
you later. Like, we we're noteven gonna try to push through
this because I don't wanna behere anymore.
Eric Bomyea (37:43):
Yeah. It's honoring it's honoring your boundaries
and what you're comfortable andnot comfortable with. You know,
it's not, again, I'm gonna saythis isn't about anyone. Right?
It's it's just about
Dave Becker (37:54):
Right.
Eric Bomyea (37:54):
For me. It's just it's just about me, what I'm
comfortable with.
Dave Becker (37:57):
Mhmm. And my munchkins are waiting for me. So
Eric Bomyea (38:00):
I I may start doing that. I mean, I'm I'm usually,
like, a I'm more secretive aboutit. Like, I don't tell people,
but, like, usually, I have,like, a candy bar in the
freezer, and that that's my,like, my little treat for
myself.
Dave Becker (38:10):
It doesn't cost me 25 munchkins. That's a lot too.
Know.
Eric Bomyea (38:13):
Mine's a king-size Carmelo bar. So
Timothy Bish (38:17):
So one of the one of the challenges that I've
noticed just in our world andwith men is that we're not
really very deeply connected toour own felt sense and our own
sensational experience ofourselves and our life. Mhmm.
And so I believe what typicallyhappens then is that we kind of
(38:37):
miss the signals or ignore themuntil we get this feeling that
is so big that we can't ignoreit. Mhmm. And that also then
feels like a moment whensubstance might come in.
Well, now suddenly, all thewarning signs, all the little,
like, dates have been passed,and I now I'm just in this
really big moment. And so nowI'm gonna drink or now I'm gonna
use drugs or or whatever thething is. But my question to you
(38:59):
is, because you know so much ofthe embodiment work is meant to
help us create a conversationwith our own internal body
wisdom. Understand it, learn howto work with it before we're
completely overwhelmed by it. Sowhat would you say to people who
are becoming sober or working intheir sobriety about their
(39:20):
relationship with their body andhow it can be a tool and how to
not how to not be overwhelmed byit at times, when it can at
times be overwhelming?
Dave Becker (39:29):
I think definitely it comes down to, like, your
just true grit honesty withyourself and really trying to
make sure that you, like, youlearn. That's one of the things
that my sober coach reallyhelped me learn was, like, you
gotta check-in with your ownself. Sobriety is one of those
things where it needs to beselfish. It needs to be because
a lot of times when you'resober, not only are you, like,
(39:52):
just more aware of, like, what'sgoing on around you, because
obviously you're not drowningyour brain with substance, but,
like, there's a level of guiltof for me, I'll speak
personally, like, there was alevel of guilt of how
irresponsible and how kind ofburdensome I was to people.
Like, I felt this, like, reallyheavy sense of, like, just
(40:17):
almost, like, owing people mypresence as a sober person to
make up for my presence as adrunk, high mess.
And one of the things I just,like, my again, my sober coach,
like, really wanted me to workon was just like, you don't owe
anybody anything. And so yourown body is your most you're
(40:37):
most responsible for your ownbody because ain't nobody gonna
be checking in, you know, like,you can check-in. And so for
someone who's really strugglingwith that, it's like, you really
do need to just, like, stepaside, talk to yourself, be
honest with yourself, and andjust make decisions based on
what is best for you. Like, oh,I came out with five friends.
(40:59):
Like, what about them?
Like, they're gonna be fine.You're the one who's not fine
right now because you're havingto check-in with yourself. You
can feel it. So I think that'sone of the biggest, you know, a
piece of advice I can give isjust you have to be honest with
yourself, check-in, because ifyou you, you know, if you can't
take care of you, you can't takecare of anybody else.
Eric Bomyea (41:19):
I'll be curious about your sensation. So you
talked about, like, the witchinghour, like, how it gets close to
that time. You can, like, senseit and you can start to feel the
the energy shift. For me now, Iam more in tuned with my body.
My experience is I can start tofeel it rising almost like acid
(41:39):
in my body.
My empathy is building formyself right now where I can
feel it, where I'm like, if Iput myself into T dance right
now, what am I going toexperience? And I can already
feel it. It's almost likeheartburn. And it's building up
in me, and I now sense that. Ican sense that when that's
happening, and then that willstart to create the trembles in
(41:59):
my hands of like, oh my gosh,what am I doing here?
I'm about to have a panicattack. And now I know as soon
as that feeling starts, check-inwith myself, look at my timer,
and be like, I set a timer foran hour, I think I have fifteen
minutes left in me. So do youhave a sense of what your bodily
sensation might be when it getsclose to that time?
Dave Becker (42:18):
It's so funny. For me, it's just kind of like I'll
I'll I'll, like, kinda scan theroom, and I just it's hard to
describe even, like, physicallyhow it feels. Sometimes it's
that's the third beer that'sbeen spilled down my back. See
you later. Mhmm.
And then sometimes it's just,like, it's the way that people's
eyes kind of steam to me. Andthere's just kind of like I'm
(42:41):
very, like, engaging when I'mout. Like, I'll walk through the
room and there's eye contact andthere's, you know, this set. But
when I'm walking through a roomand there's just kind of this
void of, like, connection andemotion and, like, and and any
sort of, like it feels almostlike like life. It's like like
it starts to get, like, inzombieland in here.
That's when I kind of definitelystart to pull out. Or and,
(43:03):
again, it's just when when theroom starts to feel too tight
around my body, that's when I'mlike, if I there are certain
clubs and bars that, like, Ijust don't go to because they
have no space for me to chill.Like, I just there's no little
open pocket I know I can go andjust have a moment. And so when
(43:24):
when the pot and even if I gosomewhere go somewhere that,
like, really I know has thosespaces for me, and those spaces
are filled, that kind of, like,tightness, I'm like, mm-mm
mm-mm. No.
No. No.
Eric Bomyea (43:36):
Sounds like you are definitely more of, like, a
fruit fly. You like to do thefruit loop?
Dave Becker (43:40):
Absolutely. I'm a I have ADHD. I don't I can't stand
anywhere. I'm a corner king.
Eric Bomyea (43:46):
I'm gonna go find a spot, and I'm gonna camp out for
the entire night. I'm like, Youcan come to me. Like, I'm
holding court back.
Dave Becker (43:51):
Yep, absolutely.
Eric Bomyea (43:54):
So I think as we get towards the end of our
conversation, the last questionthat I have here is, what do you
think could make a moreinclusive queer social
landscape? What does one looklike, where both sober and non
sober folks can feel bothequally welcomed?
Dave Becker (44:13):
That's such a huge question. It's like, how would I
rewrite how people interact witheach other in queer space? It's
like I I feel like one of theplaces that I have found has
really actually been kind oflike the new bar, the new club,
(44:33):
the new place, the new thing isthe gay sports leagues here in
Boston. Because it is such anenormous collection of the full
rainbow of the LGBTQIA plusrepeating world. And it's a
place where, like, there isdrinking occasionally because
(44:54):
it's an outdoor whether it's,you know, whatever sport you do.
Like, I was in the kickballteam. And so, of course, like,
people are, like, cracking beersand stuff like that because
whatever. It's because becausesports. But but at the same
time, like, you're outside withqueer people, girls, boys,
theythem, everything in between.And you're having to you're
(45:18):
being forced to workcollectively.
And if you get too wasted, youcan't do that. You can't catch a
ball when you're drunk and andcrazy. And people who are high
on meth aren't outside in thesun. So it is really a wonderful
place where you can find exactlywho you're looking for to make
(45:41):
those connections and start thatlife. The the team that I so in
2020, because, again, bars andclubs and stuff were closed, I
was like, I have to be social.
I have to make friends. And Ijoined the kickball team in
August of twenty twenty, noteven a month after I was sober,
and just happened to join, like,the sober group. And our captain
(46:03):
was sober. This other girl thatwas on our team was sober. And
so anytime anyone on socialmedia asks me, like, whether
they're sober or not, like, I'mmoving to a new city.
What should I do? Like, where doI go? And I'm like, join a
sports team.
Timothy Bish (46:19):
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Dave Becker (46:20):
Like, it's just it is it's it's where it's at
because you can just I mean, I II was very lucky in that, again,
like, my group is very, like,non drinky, very but also, like,
you can find out. You can findthat. Like, you can create your
own. You can It's it's really agreat great great thing.
Timothy Bish (46:40):
I I have to. I I joined Gotham Volleyball in New
York City. Mhmm. It's a hugepart of my life for the, I don't
know, four and a half or fiveyears that I did it. And, you
know, when we talked earlierabout different manners of
engagement, one of the beautifulthings about a sport is, oh,
well, there are there's astructure to how we're going to
(47:01):
engage here.
And then it allowed forinteraction in that context.
You're like, when I'm playingvolleyball, even if we're gonna
have drinks later, we're notdrinking right now. Right. You
know, we when we have we have aclock and we have a score and
you know, and it allowed for thedevelopment of friendships in a
way that I thought was soamazing. I love it so much.
(47:25):
So if golf and volleyball islistening, thank you so much for
being an incredible organizationbecause it just like, it was
healthy, fun, playful,different. And then people were
free to go to the barafterwards, which we often did.
But I would I would argue my ownpersonal experience at the bar
was that it was a littledifferent having had just done a
(47:47):
thing that we all agreed to. Andthe only time the the, you know,
the only time I ever got reallyfrustrated in Gotham volleyball
was when I recognized on onethis person would show up
hungover. I wasn't mad that theywere hungover, but I'm like, but
I joined because I lovevolleyball, and we're a team.
So if you can't play, thenyou're impacting my ability to
play. And I just wanna play. Andmost of the people were like,
(48:10):
most of the people there werelike, we all really like
volleyball. Like, I don't youknow, I was in Yeah. I was in,
like, the the, like, thedivisions that weren't actually
that good.
So, like, we're not winning,like, Olympic gold medals here,
but I'm like but I I still wannagive it my 100. I wanna try
really hard, and I wanna sweat,and I wanna cheer, and I wanna
do all the things. And it'sincredible. So golf and
(48:32):
volleyball and then whateverthere was a Boston team that
came down one time that I met,but I know there's a Boston
volleyball league too. Right?
Dave Becker (48:39):
They're they have everything. Yeah. They have
volleyball. They havebasketball. They have kickball.
They have softball. They havetennis. They have chess. They
have pool. They have everything.
Timothy Bish (48:50):
Cool.
Dave Becker (48:51):
It's crazy. And it's it's also like something so
wonderful to be said to to lookout on that field and be like, I
guarantee you, 99% of everyperson on this field got picked
last in gym class. Mhmm. And nowhere we are kicking ass and
taking names. That's right.
And it's it's it's definitely,like, just there's something to
(49:12):
be said too for, like, itplaying a sport and getting
involved in a game, like, pullsyour ego away. You can't just,
like, stand and model and lookcute. Like, you gotta get in
there. And and that peoplereally people's true selves come
out so much faster and so muchlike, your real personality
really shines when you're, like,in a situation where, again,
(49:33):
you're right. You're all doingthe same thing, you're gonna
bring your A game to the table,and that's really gonna show
people who you are.
And I think that's one of myfavorite things too. It's like
Eric Bomyea (49:41):
There's such power in an environment that creates a
container that has structure andhas intention. Everyone is
showing up with doesn't have tobe the exact same intention, but
a similar flavor of intention oflike, I'm here to play. Right? I
like line dancing here in townon Wednesday nights with
(50:03):
Francis. I don't get to go allthe time, but it is one of my
favorite activities because weare all coming with the same
purpose.
Dave Becker (50:08):
Mhmm.
Eric Bomyea (50:09):
Here to line dance.
Timothy Bish (50:11):
Mhmm.
Eric Bomyea (50:11):
Not here to party. I'm not here to cruise. I'm here
to dance. It's what I'm herefor. It really helps me to rest
to put that that, like, acidreflux feeling at bay.
Dave Becker (50:24):
Mhmm.
Eric Bomyea (50:25):
Because I'm like, we're all just here with the
same purpose in mind. Like tojust wrap up and say that all of
my life experiences that thatled to me to sobriety, I do not
regret. They were a gift to meto help me be here where I am
today. And my sobriety is now agift as well. And it has helped
(50:45):
me to look at the world in adifferent way.
It has helped me to navigate theworld in a different way, giving
myself a lot more compassion. Alittle bit more compassion as
well. I still am very much anangsty teenager at heart. I work
with that every day. And it hasreally helped me to settle more
(51:09):
So it is a gift.
Dave Becker (51:10):
Yeah. And it's definitely something that my
teenagers have asked me beforetoo. It's like, what know, if
you go back and look back atyour life, what would you
change? I was like, I'm afraidif I change anything, I wouldn't
be where I am right now. So,like, probably nothing.
Eric Bomyea (51:21):
Well, this this time together was also a gift.
You know? Thank you very muchfor for being here, sharing your
story, sharing yourvulnerability with us. It's
deeply appreciated. So
Dave Becker (51:30):
Thank you very much for having me.
Timothy Bish (51:31):
I would just like to say I've had the opportunity
to be and connect with a lot ofsober people over a long period
of time. I think initially, andI was in a gay men's, like,
artistic therapy group, and itturned out that some of the men
were in there. And I reallyadmired the shared vocabulary.
(51:53):
And I remember when I because Iwas so young at the time, and
I'm like, oh, one guy was ableto speak to another guy so
quickly to to provideperspective. I'm like, that's
really powerful.
But the other thing so what I'venoticed then is I think that
sobriety is a practice. Right?Mhmm. Totally. And when we think
of it from, like, you know,yogic, shamanic, embodiment,
(52:13):
you're like, well, it's apractice.
And so when you are deeplysteeped in a practice, then you
start to understand the value ofa practiced life in all sort of
levels. Right? So this is why,you know, yogis practice on
their mat. They're in apractice. Now that is meant to
trickle into their life.
And so I just wanna kind ofbring that to the to the
(52:36):
forefront because the value ofpractice, whatever the practice
is for you, can betransformational. And from my
perspective, I'm not a soberperson, but from my perspective,
what I've observed is thatsobriety is a practice that then
informs the rest of your life.And we could make anything a
practice if it is intentional,purposeful, and mindful, and
(52:59):
then it can transform your life.So, like, is sobriety powerful?
Yes.
Is embodiment powerful? Yes.Yoga and shamanism?
Eric Bomyea (53:07):
Like, yes. Yes.
Timothy Bish (53:08):
And so what is your practice?
Eric Bomyea (53:09):
I don't I don't have eight hundred and fifty
five total days sober. I haveeight hundred and fifty five
individual days. Right? Like,every day is a practice. Every
single day is a different day.
Just like when we were doing acold plunge. Right? Tim and I
did cold plunges last winterevery single day.
Dave Becker (53:30):
Oh my god.
Timothy Bish (53:32):
Ago. Two winters ago. Yeah. Okay.
Eric Bomyea (53:33):
And, like, every day is different. Every day is a
different experience. And youcan have a streak going on. And
all of a sudden, day 75 feelslike the most miserable day.
Right?
You're like, wait, wait. Ithought this built onto each
other. No. It's a practice.Every single day is gonna be
(53:55):
different.
Every experience is gonna be alittle different. Just keep at
it.
Dave Becker (53:58):
Exactly. And that's one of the things that AA always
says is like one day at a time,and that's an even more eloquent
way of putting it. It's justlike sometimes it's gonna be day
75 is gonna be way harder thanday four.
Eric Bomyea (54:10):
Totally. Mhmm. And then just day 76 is like, this
is the easiest day of my life.What what's going
Dave Becker (54:15):
on here? Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
Eric Bomyea (54:17):
It's a practice, not a perfect. Yes. Mhmm. Yes.
Alright.
Well, with that, I'm feelingvery complete. We'll just do a
round robin. Tim, how are youfeeling? I feel complete. And
Dave?
Dave Becker (54:27):
I feel complete.
Eric Bomyea (54:28):
Tim, will you take a sample? I will.
Timothy Bish (54:30):
Let's close our eyes. Take a deep inhale through
the nose. Soft exhale throughthe mouth. And it is with deep
appreciation and gratitude forany insights, awarenesses,
understandings that may havebeen gained in this shared
sacred space that we now releasethe archetypes and the spirits
that we called in. And withthese bars are containers open
(54:50):
but not broken.
Dave Becker (54:54):
Wow.
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