Building Trust: How Consistency, Embodiment, and Surrender Shape Self-Trust and Relationships

Episode Transcript
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Eric Bomyea (00:05):
Welcome back to The Circle, the podcast where we go
all in on men's work, embodimentpractices, and personal growth
from our queer perspective. Ifyou're enjoying the show, please
be sure to share your favoriteepisode, leave us a review, and
subscribe. If you have aquestion about anything you've
heard us talk about, please sendus a message. We'd love to hear
from you. And now onto the show.
Today, we're exploring one ofthe most foundational and

(00:26):
complex aspects of personalgrowth, trust. What allows us to
trust ourselves? What needs tobe in place for us to trust
others? And how do we balancediscernment with vulnerability
in a world where trust can beboth a gift and risk? And beyond
all that, what does it mean totrust in something bigger than
ourselves?
Tim, are you ready to go all in?I'm ready. Alright. Let's do

(00:47):
this. So you opened the sharingcircle this week with a journal
prompt that was a prettypowerful reflective inquiry for
for me.
It was with whom or what do youhave the greatest trust? And
this prompt really took meinside. I I was took me a couple
minutes to really wrestle withit, navigate with it, and I
ultimately came down to that Itrust myself the most and that

(01:11):
unveiled a couple trust issuesthat I have externally. And so
I'm curious, from yourperspective, what factors
contribute to our ability totrust ourselves, and what
elements are essential to trustothers?

Timothy Bish (01:23):
I think the process of building self trust
starts with our capacity touphold the commitments we make
to ourselves. And so I thinkthat we live in a world where it
is frequent or even evensometimes, celebrated that a

(01:48):
person will sacrifice aspects ofthemselves in service to
something else. Right? And Ithink that that there are
moments when that is absolutelynecessary. I I'm thinking about
parents, for example, andsometimes you have to abandon
something you wanted to dobecause your kids need you, your
family needs you, or somethinglike that.
But so those are, like,exceptions. But then there's

(02:11):
this other idea of, oh, like,the more I give of myself, the
better person I am, how generousI am, or, you know, whatever.
And there isn't really built inthis importance of, like, well,
how do we value taking care ofourselves in the same way that
we would value taking care ofsomeone else? Right? And so
that, I think, is one reallyimportant component of building

(02:32):
trust is I I tell myself what Ineed or what my goals are or
what, you know, what it is I'mwanting to create.
And then I stick to the plan inas in the greatest amount of
integrity that is possible.

Yeah. Sounds like, building consistency. Right? So
the consistency of showing upfor myself has helped me to
trust myself more. So I'veshared this on the podcast that
I had a deep mistrust for mybody growing up.
And what I've learned over thelast couple of years of becoming
more physically active andprioritizing my physical health

(03:08):
has been that, where it's like,oh, if I'm more consistent in my
physical practices, I start tolearn trust in my abilities. And
so what I'm hearing isconsistency.

I think consistency is a really
important factor for mostthings. You know, if we wanna
get good at something, we haveto we have to practice it
generally over and over. So youthink, oh, I wanna go to the I
wanna get in great shape. Youcan't just do one workout. If I
wanna learn a skill like thepiano, you can't just get one
lesson, and then expect to bewhere you wanna be.

(03:44):
And the same is true for trust,then it's like, oh, if I wanna
start to develop trust inmyself, if I wanna if I wanna
understand the relationship I'mhaving with myself and begin to
trust that relationship, then Ihave to come back to it over and
over and over again. And I thinkthat's, a practice that we all
would benefit from and also apractice that we don't talk

(04:04):
about much, I think, in our inour culture, which is why men's
workspaces are are good becausethen we can talk about that. Oh,
when when did I when did I failto uphold this commitment? And
then without without judgmentor, like, punishment, how do I
bring myself back intointegrity? And then that
process, that conversation is atrust building conversation.

(04:25):
So it's not about perfection.Perfection. It's about a
willingness to continue, and theconsistency is a

part of that. Right. Because perfection will
keep me from taking action ortrying something. And then how
am I gonna create consistency ifI'm unwilling or afraid to try?
And so with consistency, I alsostart to think of, like, safety.
Right? Like, when I amconsistent in something, I can
rest a little bit more into it.Mhmm. If somebody in my life is

(04:53):
consistent, I can rest with thema little bit more. I start to
feel a little bit more grounded.
I start to feel a little safer,a little bit more stable. When
there's inconsistency, there'suncertainty.

Well, because consistency feels like
observable evidence. Oh, thisperson consistently shows up in
this way. It's easier then forme to trust them to be able to
continue to show up in that way.And it's actually not always
good or bad. So we've had thiswhere, you know, I had a family
member who had a had a drinkingproblem, and so they were very

(05:27):
consistent in some of the waysthat they would show up.
But then but then that was like,I'm like, I see your
consistency. I know how you'regonna show up. I get to now, set
my own expectations andboundaries around if that works
for me. So it can be good orbad, but the consistency is an
indication.

And and in that case, maybe the there's an
opportunity to develop selftrust. Oh, I recognize that that
person or thing isn't right forme because they've demonstrated
through their consistencysomething that I can now trust
myself to say, don't want a partof that. And so it's almost like

(06:05):
an inverse. Like, I don't trustthem, but I trust myself. I
trust my boundaries that I'mgonna put in place based off of
that consistent behavior I'mseeing.

Yeah. Yeah. Think the development of self trust is
the tool that helps youunderstand what you're gonna
allow yourself to do or thesituations you're gonna put
yourself in. You know, when, oneway of building self trust is
this felt sense practice, thisembodiment practice where, you
know, we do this in the sharingcircle. There's lots of
different ways to do it and lotsof different practices, but

(06:34):
where you scan through thephysical body and you start
looking for sensation.
And then, you know, in some ofthe practices, then you'll ask,
is there an emotion connected tothat? But the more we are
capable of listening to our bodyand communicating with our body
in the language in which itcommunicates, which is the
language of sensation, the morewe can get those messages and

(06:56):
then the more we can practicetrusting those messages. So,
when we think about the examplewe just gave and, you know,
potentially being around aperson who is consistently
showing up in a way that wedon't love, one thing we could
do is check-in. Well, how do Ifeel after an interaction with

(07:17):
that person? How do I feel afterspending time with them or
giving them some of my energy orwhatever?
And then trusting, oh, Iconsistently feel at at like, a
sense of unease or drained orwhatever the thing is. And that
then is information for us too.If I always feel drained with
you, then what is it I need tolook at, and what is it I might

(07:41):
need to change?

Maybe a sense of irregularity as well. Like like,
if there is that inconsistencyand my nervous system isn't
allowed to regulate, if I'mfeeling a little spiked around
somebody or even myself. So I'mgoing to bring this back to
myself again because theoriginal question was around,

(08:03):
and then the original sharingprompt was around, what do you
trust the most? And mydevelopment has been, like,
trusting myself. And for thelongest time, why I didn't trust
myself is because I did not feelsafe in my own body.
Like, I myself could notregulate my own nervous system.
I myself could not exist insideof this body feeling 100% safe.

(08:27):
Yeah. And that's been a lot ofthe work that I've been doing
over the last several yearsbetween AA therapy, men's work,
embodiment practices, just onthe spiritual path is like, how
can I learn to trust myself? Howcan I feel a little bit more
safe in my body?
And a lot of it has beenhonestly like a surrender of
like, oh, there are many partsof my body that I can't control.

(08:53):
I can't control most of thebodily functions that are going
on in my body. I can partiallycontrol my breath. Right? That's
one thing that I can do, butmost other things are
involuntarily.
Yeah. And that's been a big partof, like, my trust building is
that I'm like, oh, okay. I trustthat my body can do this. I

(09:13):
don't have to control it. I canhave faith in it.
And I can start to rest andlike, okay, I feel a little
safer in my body now. And thathas helped me now to start to
bring that trust externally andto start recognizing where in
life do I feel safe, or do Ifeel safe enough? Where am I
regulated enough to put moretrust into something?

Well, so you brought up the first prompt from
sharing circle, but it had asort of a secondary question. Do
you remember what that is?

I'm gonna pull it up right now.

Oh, you're gonna pull

it up. Okay. In what or whom do you have the
greatest trust? And then what isit about that person or
situation that allows you totrust it?

Right. So in that question, asking people to start
to identify rather than,individual details like this
person or the situation. Andwhat we what we came up with in
the circle, what I heard a lotof was, oh, when when I
recognize consistency, when Irecognize reliability, when I

(10:11):
recognize a steadiness or agroundedness. A commitment to
values, upholding values. Yeah.
Exactly. That those were themoments when people often
reported feeling able to trust.And I suspect, as you rightly
said, that that's connected thento safety. It's like, I feel
safe enough to trust you basedon these things. And so then we

(10:33):
start to we can use that as atool, as a signpost.
Oh, I'm looking now for peoplewho can be consistent, and I can
start that with me. Can I beconsistent with me? Can I uphold
the commitments I make to myselfeven in the moments when I don't
want to? And, again, this isn't,an all or nothing. So I used to

(10:53):
really be the all or nothingperson.
You know, I do my dailyjournaling and breath practice.
And the the younger version ofme would have been, if you
missed one day, like, it's over.You've ruined it. You know? And
starting again would have been,you know, terrible.
And now I'm I'm softening. Notit's not that I let myself off

(11:16):
the hook. I still basically doit every day. But when we were
on retreat, it didn't make sensefor any number of reasons. And I
was still doing a lot of otherpractice.
And I I was able to say, well,I'm I'm not. My practice is
shifting right now in thismoment for these reasons. And so
it started to I knew I I was Ifelt safe in my own consistency,

(11:36):
which allowed me then to make asubtle change in that moment. So
it sounds like it wasinconsistent, but but on some
level to me, it wasn't. I wasstill consistently practicing.
It had to shift for those fourdays because of my leadership
role and my schedule.

Yeah. And the intention was still there, And
there was still an upholding ofa commitment to yourself from
what I'm hearing. Still anupholding of that commitment to
like, I'm going to have a dailypractice. That daily practice
may be something different. Oreven in the case of like this
morning, I woke up, I slept in alittle bit this morning, and I

(12:12):
didn't do my typical hour ofpractices.
Oh my goodness. Radical shift.Which, I mean, my journey has
been pretty incredible radicalthis year where I went through a
moment of time where I was like,I can't have any specific
consistency in my routinebecause it's stifling me. It's

(12:33):
driving me nuts. And so mypractices were actually a little
like, I was always committed todoing something.

Mhmm.

But what they were was not consistent. And so I
needed that variety in my life.Variety actually created more
stability for me thanconsistency in a very specific
thing.

Well, it sounds like the masculine feminine, the
yin yang, where you had thestructure of I'm going to do a
practice, but then you had theflow for, well, that practice
can be whatever it wants to betoday as long as it's a
practice. And so to me, that's acombination of these two things

(13:12):
sort of flowing together.

Yeah. And that's what I was hearing with you with
with the retreat was like, I'mstill committed, I'm still
upholding this and I'm stillmoving forward. Anyway, so going
back to this morning for me wasthat I sat up and I was like, I
feel really bad that I'm notgoing to do it because I am in
more of an era of masculinestructure where I want the
consistency, the repetition ofthe same. And I woke up this

(13:38):
morning and I was like, I'm notgoing to do it. And there was a
big part of me that started tofall into old programming, was
self flat flatulation?

Flagulation? Flagulation.

I think. Right? Like, I'm, like, whipping
myself. I'm like, I'm useless.I'm pathetic.
Like, blah blah blah blah blah.And I was like, no. No. No.
Like, you can pull yourselfback, and this is what you said
earlier.
I can pull myself back intointegrity. I don't have to fall
into that old pattern of like,oh, I messed up once. Everything
is done. Burn it all down.Right?
I can I can say no? Like, yes.I'm still gonna do something,

(14:13):
and tomorrow I'll pick it backup.

Right. I'm gonna use today as an example too
because, yesterday was a big dayfor me, and I didn't get great
sleep last night. And I woke up,and my my practice today changed
where I did do my morning pages,but I didn't do my breath
immediately. And I knew thatthere would be room for breath
later. So, as you know, becausewe just did it right before in

(14:37):
preparation for this recording,we did some breath practice.
It isn't typically how I do it,and it won't be my general
routine. But I allowed myselfsome flexibility. Like, well, I
it's not that I'm not gonna doit. I'm just not gonna do it in
precisely the same way. So theconsistency of doing it is still
there even though and the of theflexibility of moving it when I

(15:00):
need to is also there.

Yeah. Can I can I ask you a question on that? I
want you to. So how is yourrelationship with your self
trust today after that?

I've I feel I feel solid. I I knew I was gonna do
it, and I was rolling with whatwith what was happening. Say,
okay. I had a really big dayyesterday, and I am feeling
especially tired right now. And,oh, also, because I because I

(15:33):
was sore.
I was like, my torso was sore.I'm like, I don't know that big
breath right now is gonna be thething that feels good anyway. So
I knew when I was gonna do it.And I would have done it without
you, but we we put it in theschedule. So I'm like, great.
It's gonna happen. It's just notgonna happen when it normally
happens. What I'm also hearing,what I love about this is that
by listening to yourself to toto say, like, yesterday was a

(15:56):
big day.

My quality of sleep wasn't wasn't the best, and I
also am experiencing some bodilythings. Like, that to me is a
huge example of, like, trustingself. Right? And, like and the
more that we can, like, listento ourselves, like, some

Well, and so and right. And so part of building
our ability to trust ourselvesfor me is that felt sense. And I
feel like, you know, you and Iare quite different sometimes in
the way that we do it. So whenthe way you described practice
but having it be kind ofwhatever you want on any
particular day in that littlemoment in your life, that sounds
way too chaotic for me. Like, Ilike I like more more structure

(16:35):
there.
But I do my practices the way Ido my practices because of how
they make me feel and how itsets me up for my day. So that
could also be the measure to belike, can I can I start to get
familiar with how I feel indoing something? And then if

(16:55):
that feeling is telling me thatit's of service, let that be a
clue. So that's why you and Ican have very different
approaches. And really, if youfeel good upon completion of
what you've committed to and Ifeel good upon completion of
what I've committed to, thenthat to me indicates, well, then

(17:15):
this is something that youshould continue to do because
it's of service and you'regetting real time feedback that
it's working.
Exactly. It's like, how does itfeel in the body? And if and if
something

is not helping to to contribute to my regularity,
to my ability to feel grounded,then that's my signal. So when I
was going through that kind ofphase of or chaotic, you know,
morning practices, I waslistening to my body because I

(17:50):
wasn't feeling stable in my bodywith rigor. I was feeling
suffocated. I was feelinganxious. I was feeling like I
needed to, like, break out andget get away.
Yeah. And so now that is theopposite. That's what I'm
actually craving. So it reallyis about how does it feel in the
body? And that signal that Ifeel stable, I feel consistent,

(18:15):
I feel grounded, just a greatindicator as we start to explore
like, okay, like, what do Istart to trust outside of me?
Do I trust people? Do I trustenvironments? Do I trust
situations, processes,institutions? And so let's start
talking about the externallittle bit. The second question

(18:37):
that you brought into circle wasin what or whom do you struggle
to trust?
And what is it about that personor situation that makes it
challenging to trust them? Andso I'd be curious, to know a
little bit about about yourperspective on this.

Well, it was just a a counterpoint to the first
question, recognizing when Idon't trust something, what's
really happening. Because it'sespecially when we think about
other people, it's easysometimes to say, oh, they
they're not they're not sayingit the way that I would say it

(19:11):
or doing it the way that I woulddo it, and that's hard for me to
trust. But in reality, there's,to me at least, a deeper level
that we could look at, whichwould be, oh, I'm fearful per
perhaps. I'm fearful that I'mgonna lose something. And then

(19:31):
that's informing so, again,going back to when you don't
trust someone or something,maybe it's a job, maybe it's an
organization, Like, lookinginward, well, how is it that
making me feel?
Right? And then from that place,what can I do with that
information?

The things that got that got brought up during
Circle was kind of this, like, Ican still recognize that I might
not trust something, but I'mstill going to do it or I'm
still going to engage with it.I'm still going to participate
in that person or that thingbecause of what I heard you say
was like sometimes a fear, afear of losing something can

(20:10):
take over. And if that fear isgreater than my own personal
trust, then I might abandonmyself and go forward and quote
unquote trust that person thingor place.

Yeah. Say that again. I wanna make sure I
understand you.

Mhmm. So the situation is that, like, I am
seeing somebody, datingsomebody. Okay. And I have that
that feeling inside of me. Thisperson is showing up in a in a
way either inconsistent orconsistently inconsistent, and I

(20:44):
I'm feeling a little icky aroundthem.
However, my fear of losing themand my fear of, like, not having
love is keeping me in thatsituation. Right? Yeah. And so
why do we sometimes abandon ourown inner knowing in favor of,
quote unquote, trusting others?

Well, I think one form of mistrust that a lot of
us have, I certainly have, islack mentality. I don't trust
that there's gonna be enough ofalmost everything. And so then I
get I get really fearful aboutwhat it would look like without

(21:25):
it. And, you know, I wanted tosay this earlier, you know, this
felt sense, will help us toconnect to our inner wisdom and
our intuition. And so the morewe're aware of it, the more we
can utilize it.
And so I think in that moment,we will often have this

(21:46):
something deep in us is sayingsomething about this isn't
right. But if I'm if I'm notskilled at dealing for that,
listening in a sensational wayfor it, then it won't be as
obvious. And then the moresubtle it is, the easier it is
for us to be like, was thatreal? And then especially in the
context of fear based thinking.So I'm getting this ping.

(22:10):
It's not very loud, though,because I don't really listen to
the pings very much. But, youknow, it's sort of telling me
that this person feels a littleoff. But I don't know. And now
I'm terrified that if I don't ifif I don't hold on to this
person, I'll never feel loveever again. Well, then boom.
Now I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna nottrust my intuitive ping, and I'm

(22:33):
gonna work in opposition to whatI actually want. And so I think
the process would then be, oh,my lack of trust here in this
person is connected to my fearthat I won't I won't ever be
loved. So I I I'm willing toaccept some weird contorted

(22:54):
version of what looks like love,something in the slice of love,
which is whatever this personmight be giving us, because it's
better to have that than to havenothing.

And in in that process, what I'm also hearing
is kind of a deterioration ofself trust. Because the more
often that if I were to do that,and I've done that before in
past relationships where I amgoing in and I'm like, I sense
something, but I'm doing itanyway. And in doing that, I'm

(23:26):
not upholding my own commitmentsto myself. And that was part of
the opening here is that webuild trust in ourselves, we
build self confidence byupholding the commitments to
ourselves. And if one of thosecommitments is like listening to
myself and I'm not doing thatover and over and over again, my
self confidence is going to bein the basement.

(23:46):
It's going to be really hard towork through that. And so that's
where the baby steps of like,okay, what commitments can I
uphold for myself to build up alittle bit of that confidence,
to build up a little bit of thattrust so that I can then listen,
oh, I I don't trust this person,place, or thing? So now I can
start to make more, like, selfbeneficial decisions.

I think when people hear about this and when
I first heard about felt senseand trusting my internal wisdom
and my and my gut instinct andall of that, if we if we jump
too fast to, oh, I'm supposed toblindly trust these feelings,
It's not really real. So ifyou're listening and you want to

(24:32):
start this process, it doesn'tmean that you have to act boldly
on every sensation or ping thatyou get. Step one would simply
become aware of when the pingsexist and and how they feel for
you. So I'm not saying you feelone ping and you decide to break

(24:52):
up or get a divorce or leaveyour job. You know?
I'm saying if you're juststarting, notice the ping and
start to notice the pattern ofthe ping. You know, when we
talked about purpose, we talkedabout joy as being the
breadcrumbs on the in thedirection of purpose. Right? The
feeling of joy, the experienceof joy being an indication that

(25:14):
I'm moving in the rightdirection. Well, this the same
is true here.
Start to notice the sensationsin your physical body. Let that
be the first step. And then ifyou are continually feeling
uneasy, it's hard to trust thisperson, they're feeling
mysterious, they're feelinginconsistent, whatever the thing

(25:35):
is, then you can start by actingon a pattern. And then I suspect
when you get really good at it,then you can start acting on one
initial ping because you willhave been practiced in
recognizing it. But initially,notice everything you can and
then and then act in thebeginning on patterns that

(25:58):
you've identified.
With this one person, I feelwe've hung out seven times, and
six of the seven times, I havefelt uneasy in this way. Okay.
Well, that's a that's a pattern.And it it's actually a fact. If
it you know, oh, I I have feltuneasy six out of seven times.

(26:18):
That that was your experience.And you're like, well, what do
wanna do about that? Do youwanna continue to be in
situations where you feeluneasy? And that's so that's my
advice for step one. Notice asmuch as you can in your physical
body and then start to look forpatterns.

I love that because it it really is aligned with a a
current situation that's goingon in my life right now, which
is like this big shift that I'mmaking in my career and what it
is that I actually want to bedoing with this one precious
life that I have. And so for allthe listeners, I was laid off

(26:52):
from my corporate job inDecember, and we're filming this
in April. And so I've beenworking through a lot of things
over the last couple of months.I've been interviewing for jobs
remotely all over the country,in person, hybrid, all these
things. And I've gone throughthe exploration of like, what is

(27:13):
it that I want to do?
And I actually got to the finishline with a company in Boston
that wanted me in the officethree days a week. And as I was
going through the interviewprocess, it was really long and
drawn out. I think I wentthrough almost I think it was
nine halls altogether. And I waslike, this is starting to feel
like a chore. And my level ofinterest and engagement in the

(27:36):
company was like, it was stillthere, but there was something
that started to creep in.
And so I could have. I couldhave, like, reacted on my first
feeling, but I didn't. I, like,sat with it and I was like, is
this a pattern? Am Iconsistently feeling something
that is that is is my bodysaying, like, maybe this isn't
the right decision? And I had tosit with it of like, am I making

(27:57):
an impulsive decision to eithergo with this company or not go
with this company?
And so I sat with it and satwith it. And there were several
moments that I was like, I wasfeeling very strongly one way or
the other. And then there were acouple universal signs, we'll
call them, that started to popin. And then we'll take this
into our next topic of trustingexternal something bigger,

(28:20):
greater. And that was I wasthinking about the prospect of
going back into the city versusanother possibility, which was
going into yoga teachertraining.
And I was talking to mytherapist about it, and he said,
he was like, I wish I could showyou a mirror right now because

(28:40):
the bodily difference in you issignificant. When you're talking
about going back to the city,you're collapsing and you're so
small. And then when you thinkabout, oh, other things that you
could be doing, leading guidedmeditations, teaching yoga
classes, all these other things,you're lighting up and you're

(29:00):
getting positive and you'regetting big. And then I as I was
leaving therapy, I went past thelibrary. And in Provincetown, we
have these things called littlefree libraries where people,
like, donate books.
And I walked by it. It was theYoga Sutras of Patanjali. And I
was like, okay, universe. Like,now what are you saying? Ended
up not taking the job in Boston,and I did enroll in yoga teacher

(29:21):
training.
And it and it's not because Isaw that book. It's because I
saw that book in relation to abunch of other signs that were
pointing me towards joy,pointing me towards something
that was I felt a little bitmore trust in. Thank

you for sharing that story. I think it's
important. I you know, youmentioned so looking at the
looking at the pattern of feltsense in the body and then
recognizing you know, so we'vebeen talking about as a step
one. I do think that there aremoments and people capable of
having one intuitive ping andmaking the right decision based

(29:59):
on that ping. But the otherthing I wanna talk about with
regards to it is those peopleprobably have a very practiced
conversation with their own bodyand felt sense.
And so I They

know their hell yeses and hell nos pretty
clearly.

Right. So there's something about the intensity of
the feeling too. Right? So if aperson who has a regular
practice like this has a verystrong moment of revolt,
disgust, or something, andthey've they're good at they
have practiced that, then theycan trust it right away. For

(30:36):
those of us who are startingthis process, it probably won't
come so loudly, so quickly, soobviously.

Mine was not loud, quick, or I mean, this is a long
process to, like, get to thispoint.

Right. Well and I think that's so in your story,
you talked about having thesesort of ebbing and flowing
moments through the process andthat it's good that you stuck
with it and started looking forthe pattern and not for the
impulse because that's howyou're gonna refine your
capacity to feel bigger andfuller so that one day maybe it

(31:10):
is one ping and you know. But sofor anyone listening, that's
that's the the version we've allseen in, like, TV shows and
movies. Like, oh, I'm a psychic,and I just get this flash, and
then I immediately know. And Ithink that's possible in the
same way that other incrediblethings are possible, but I think
the people who can do that havepracticed.

(31:33):
So practice is all I'm saying.Yeah. Practice listening to your
physical body

and trusting that that will lead you to something
that is is meant for you orsomething that will benefit you
in some way. And so, yeah, Iwant to transition or use this
as an opportunity to move intotrusting of, let's call it a
higher power or just somethinggreater than ourselves. Because

(32:03):
in my example, my story, like, Icould look at the the yoga book
in the little free library aslike a sign from the universe.
Yeah. And, like, do I trustthings like that?
Do I trust signs from theuniverse? And for me, for a long
time, I did not. I was like,nope. Don't believe in it.
Don't.
Like, that is not that sort ofwoo woo is not for me. Right? I
don't trust that type ofthinking. And now I'm learning

(32:25):
to be like, oh, these are justsigns. It's not an impulse.
I don't need to say like, oh, Isaw I saw the yoga sutras and
now I have to change my entirelife path because I saw that at
that one time. But it was like,oh, I'm trusting in this whole
process and now I'm seeing asign. Now can I trust that there
is a bigger plan for me? Then

I think a few things. The first thing that
comes to mind is that Junaprinciple of the world is what
we think it is. So if you youjust said, you know, there was a
time when you didn't you didn'tbelieve in that, so then signs
didn't exist for you, and thatwas your truth. And now you are
saying that your thinking hasshifted. Okay.
So now things are different. Ialso think there's this energy

(33:12):
flows where attention goes isanother Huna principle. But
yeah. And so you've been nowsteeped more in men's work,
shamanic embodiment, yogic pracyou know? So when you tell that
story about the Yoga Sutras,part of me wonders, well, that
that book could have been theremany other times, but you didn't

(33:36):
have yoga on the heart andbrain.
And now you have yoga on theheart and brain, so now you
start seeing a thing that youmight have otherwise not seen.
It's interesting when I had myshoulder surgery, this was in
02/2009. And so I was I was inan arm sling and had this little
orange ball. And once, like, Ihad that, I started looking

(34:01):
around the world, and I saw somany other people with
orthopedic things, slings,canes, casts, boots, you know,
all the I was like, where wheredid all this stuff come from? I
was living in New York City atthe time.
And then I thought, oh, it'sprobably been here the whole
time, but it hasn't been in mythe forefront of my mind or in

(34:21):
my consciousness, so I just sortof didn't see it. So this is
why, being mindful of what we'rethinking and what we're intaking
is so important because, we'relikely gonna find more of it. So
if you are looking for reasonsfor the world to not have
enough, you'll find it. And ifyou are looking for reasons for

(34:46):
the world to have enough, well,then you'll find that too. And,
you know, we could approach thisfrom different perspectives, but
there's a lot of spiritualteachings that have the same
teaching from differenttraditions.
But they're also our nervoussystem and how it works. So so
it is a real practice. Look forthe things you wanna see. And

(35:07):
then and so then on some level,when you see them, well, is it a
sign? It's a sign that you aredirecting your focus.
Now are you directing itconsciously? That's the
question.

Are you consistent in that? And like, So I love the
reflection of, yes, I hadembodiment on the heart and the
mind. And so the universe mayhave had all these little
sprinklings around me, but Iwasn't looking for them. Or I
wasn't open to them, receptiveto them. And now it's like, oh,
that that the possibility thatthat could be something that I

(35:41):
could that I could be on thelookout for is now more
apparent.

You know, I I don't know if I've told this
story on the on the podcastbefore, but many of you already
know that I was anacupuncturist. And I worked as
an acupuncturist in New YorkCity for many years until I
studied acupuncture in Chinesemedicine. And when I first
started studying Chinesemedicine, it felt fake to me.
And I I got into acupuncture ina from a very orthopedic

(36:08):
perspective because I wasgetting it while I was dancing
professionally. And so I wasinterested in biomechanics and
and muscle tissues andconnections and that kind of
thing.
So you start learning about,Chinese medicine, you're like,
oh, well, like, there's dampnessand there's phlegm and then
there's heat and there's all youknow? And I'm like I'm like,
this is all like, what is whatare you talking about? Right? I
didn't have a thing for it. Andthen through the practice, it

(36:34):
started to reveal itself to me.
And I was like, oh, thesepatterns and presentations that
the Chinese had been observingfor thousands of years. And so
then I started looking for it.I'm like, oh, I'm looking for
these imbalances, and then youstart to see them. And it's it's
kind of amazing. You have to bewilling to look.

(36:55):
So if you make a choice to say,don't believe something, that's
fine. But then be mindful ofmaking that choice because it
can sort of shut you off to thepossibility that there are other
things.

I love that example because it highlights an
evolution of trust. Oh, I don'ttrust this practice or this
process because it doesn't makesense to me. There's not enough
backing behind it, or I don'tunderstand the evidence behind
it. And then it's like, oh, butbit by bit, I'm starting to see

(37:31):
more and more of how this couldbe a useful thing, how this is a
beneficial thing. And then I'mstarting to see the beauty of
it, and I trust it more andmore.
Yeah. And I think that that forme has been work that I've been
doing around something biggerthan myself. Is like that

(37:55):
growing up, I was like, nope,not for me. Right? Like, I don't
trust it.
I don't believe in it. I don'tlike, none of that. And then
it's like starting to become alittle bit more open, a bit more
receptive, a little bit morelike curious about it. I'm like,
oh, okay. Maybe I can trustthat.

(38:15):
There's this thing called theuniverse that has my best
interest at heart. Like, oh,okay. Starts to make a little
bit more sense. Start to, like,trust that a little bit more.
So, like, acupuncture is alsosomething that's not a person or
a place, like a thing.
Yeah. It's like, yeah. And I canI, like, go into it with a

(38:38):
little skepticism, but then,like, learn to trust it a little
bit?

Be willing to to have an experience of it. And
this is why, you know, we comeback to the power of embodiment.
This acupuncture story that Iwas telling is is helpful
because when you started whenyou would get treatments and
start to feel things moving, itwas that was the moment when I'm
like, oh, wait. I see what youmean. I see what you mean when

(39:04):
you said there was cold there.
There was cold damp there. Therewas, you know, there was phlegm
there. There was, you know,dryness. You know? I I I start
to see what you mean because I Iam feeling what you mean.
I'm feeling it in me.Experiencing your feelings. I'm
having an embodied experience ofthe medicine that is then

(39:24):
saying, oh, that's what that is.Then what? Right?
And and so it it really openedit up, and it was the body that
helped me to do it. Becauseotherwise, this all just sounds
sort of like poetic kind of likeAnd especially in Western
culture, like, if you don't showme

the hard facts, like, I don't believe in. I
don't trust it. Yeah. I meanLike, where's where's the
science? Where's the where like,show me that.
Sometimes that that doesn'texist. You have to feel it in
the body to experience ityourself to be like, oh, okay.
Like, I can trust this because Inow know what they're talking
about.

Yeah. For example, like, they say something like an
invasion of wind. Imagineimagine being like a super
western orthopedic, you know,and I'm like, what? What? I'm
like, I wanna I wanna treattendonitis or or trigger points
or, you know, that sort ofthing.
I'm like, what are you talkingabout wind? Until you experience
wind in your body, and thenyou're like, oh, that's what

(40:20):
they mean by wind, and that'swhat the Chinese had been
observing for thousands of yearsover, you know, millions of
people. Because the one thing Iwill say, like, my my
infomercial about acupuncture isthat, you know, it doesn't
really fits fit itself well intothe current Western medical
research. It's hard to isolate aa mechanism when with a needle

(40:41):
because it can be so many thingssimultaneously. Right?
But people don't typically dothings for thousands of years
that don't work. The idea that,oh, well, this medicine and
acupuncture has been practicedfor thousands of years. Well,
you know, how many things do youdo that you don't get a benefit
from? I would argue most of ustry to avoid those things at all

(41:02):
cost. But when we recognizesomething doesn't give us any
value, we often stop doing that.
Right? And so, yeah, I'm like,there's been an entire, like,
gigantic country of peoplewho've been doing this for a
long time. There's gotta besomething to it. And then when
you have the when you have theexperience of it in your own
body, you're like, well, now I'msold. I get it because I've

(41:23):
experienced it.

And I think the same thing from my own
experience with anythingspirituality based. Like, I for
the longest time was like, nope.Don't want anything to do with
it. And now it's like, oh, well,if many people have a spiritual
practice and can start to, like,believe in something greater
than themselves, like, oh, I cantoo.

Well, believing in something greater than
ourselves. So elite likebelieving in magic. So when I
was in my yoga teacher training,you know, my one of my teachers,
Sharon Gannon, she would shebasically introduced me to the
idea that every word we said, wewere casting spells. Right? And
initially, when you hear that,you're like, what?

(42:08):
You know? But then you see allthis research in that that water
study that we that we talkedabout, and you're like, oh, the
words that I say and that Ithink actually do have an
impact, and especially the wordsthat I can continue to say over
and over and over. So if I'mconstantly berating myself for
being you know? And we have allthis negative self talk. I don't

(42:30):
even wanna say it now becausewe're talking about, like you
know?
But, like, it's it's not hardfor people to think of examples
where they think about an aspectof themselves that they don't
like, and they kind of repeatthat and beat themselves up. And
I believe now there is animpact, a physiological impact
that happened. And so if youchange your words, you can't
just and the so back to theconsistency, you can't just

(42:52):
change them once. Although evenonce is better than nothing, I
assume. But you'd have to you'dhave to practice it to to make
it happen.
But we know now. It's like, oh,so magic does exist. Is it a
powder in, like, a, like, avelvety bag? Well, maybe not.
But is it conscious language?
Maybe.

If you do it enough times over and over again, go
back to consistency. Mhmm.Consistently, if I'm doing
something and even if it is thatthat powder in that velvet bag,
if I'm consistently doing thatand I'm seeing a positive change
or shift in my life or I'mfeeling even better yet, if I'm
feeling a positive shift, yeah,I trust that. I trust that

(43:33):
thing.

Well, so Sharon Gannon said, Through repetition,
the magic arises, and it's that.So practice these things. And
now in yoga, we're practicingconscious breath, conscious
movement, uplifted intentions,ethical considerations, and
whatnot. And the more youpractice something, the more you

(43:55):
will see it. Speaking ofpracticing, I do want to talk
about breath.
Oh, I love breath. Yes.

Because I've not always enjoyed breath or breath
work practices. Breath was oneof those things that I had a
mistrust of. Okay. Felt a lotof, like, lack of safety with my
own breath. Like, remember as akid, like, when I first learned
that I could control my breath,I don't think for two decades I

(44:28):
didn't take an unconsciousbreath.
I was always trying to controlmy breath. I was obsessive about
breathing in, breathing out,breathing in, breathing out. And
so when I went into my firstbreath work practice, I was like
my nervous system was like,nope, not for me. Absolutely
not. Can't do this.
And it wasn't until I was like Istarted to feel like be able to

(44:49):
rest in it, to feel a littlesafe in it that I was like, oh,
okay. I can do Ujjayi breath inyoga very loudly, very proudly.
But that wasn't always the case.Like, linking breath to movement
was a very foreign concept forme and actually did not make me
feel safe. Right?
Because I was like, it was itwould just send me

to a tizzy. So it was You're very overwhelmed.

Overwhelmed. Yeah. It would it would overwhelm me.
I was like, I could do onething. Yeah.
Right? Like, let me just move myleg. Yeah. Right? And so the
last thing that I wanna coverwith that I'm sorry, y'all.
I'm feeling a little ramblyscrambly today, and we're just
going with it.

Let's just go with it. Rambly scrambly. Rambly
scrambly. Scrambled eggs sounddelicious. Oh.
Yeah. Don't get no. No. No. No.
You're like like I'm

like trusting my gut right now. I'm like
scrambled eggs for dinner soundsgreat. Okay. So stay on stay on
topic. So the last thing that Iwanted to cover was an
interesting thing that came upfor me in embodiment practice on
Tuesday around breath.
We went through several breathwork practices facilitated by
Tim,

and they were very masterfully And

gave me a lot of opportunities to work with
trusting myself, trustingothers, trusting containers,
trusting the safety of anenvironment. So in some of the
breath work practices, I waslike, oh, I can do this on my
rhythm, on my time. I'm feelingreally good. I'm feeling really
powerful. I'm feeling really incontrol.

(46:21):
And then there were momentswhere I was like, oh, now we're
introducing you introduced themetronome. And you're like,
okay. Like, now I'm gonna keepthe rhythm with this metronome
and, like, and you trust thattiming. Can I trust you to keep
the timing? Can I trust you toknow?
Like, I think what what happenedwas, like, I didn't feel a full

(46:42):
safety of like, oh, you don'tknow what's inside of my body.
Right? Like, I don't feel safedoing this this this count this
way. And then I had to sit withit and be like, oh, like, what
can I? Can I trust?
Do I have enough consistency ofwhat's happened in life to be
like, okay, I can do this? Andso it just gave me an
opportunity to really work witha lot of trust. And then when

(47:03):
you took away the metronome andthe counting, it was then like,
oh, can I then trust all the menin this space to keep count? And
then also maybe that's not thecount that I want. So it's like,
can I yeah?
Anyway, so a lot a lot came up.

Yeah. Yeah. So for for context, anyone listening,
we were doing a something calleda V Samavritti Pranayama. It's
where the the it was a boxbreath, essentially. Inhaling,
holding at the top, exhaling,and holding at the bottom.
But instead of it being equal,four counts in, four count hold,
four counts out, four counthold, it was unequal, and there

(47:42):
was a ratio. So we did a twocount inhale, held the breath at
the top for eight counts. We dida four count exhale, and then we
held the breath out at thebottom for six counts. And my
experience of that practice,this is a a ratio that I had
been given from my teachers atJeeva Mukti, is that it pushes

(48:02):
me to my edge, especially if youdo it for long enough. And you
get to start to feel what whatcomes up.
And so it's a way especiallywhen we're in a practice space,
a great way of understanding,well, what does what does it
start to feel like when I'mapproaching my edge? What does

(48:23):
it then feel like when I'm at myedge? When does it what does it
start to feel like when I'mabout to push past my edge? And
just getting comfortable withthose feelings because, you
know, the that that ratiosometimes makes me feel a little
panicky. When you start to feellike you're out

of breath, you're like you know? And then Well,
the thing is that, like, if I'mdoing it to my ratio and to my
count, I love that ratio. And Icould do it for an hour and have
no problem because it's myratio. My four is gonna be
different than your four. It'sgonna be different than another
brother's four.

(48:58):
Sure. Right? And for for me,like, I am a I'm a slower,
deeper inhaler, exhaler, andthat's comfortable for me. So my
four might be +1, 234. Somebodyelse's is +1, 234.
Yeah. Right? Yeah. And that'swhat I'm talking about. That's

(49:19):
where I'm like, oh, can I like,I can trust my count because I
know that it feels good for meYeah?
And it feels right for me. Now Ihave to trust somebody else's
count, and I don't like the waythat that feels in my body.
Yeah.

And you get well, you get to learn. And the good
news is you got to have you canhave both experiences.

I got to have both.

You had you had one in the in the circle. Now
you can go home and do that samepractice on your own count.
Right? But you also thenlearned, well, what does it feel
like when I'm when I'm beingasked to meet a different tempo?
A different kind of edge.
And, like, what what does thatfeel like? And how can I be
conscious around that withoutcollapsing? Because that same

(49:57):
thing for sure pops up in yourlife. Definitely. And, you know,
and it's not always gonna be aphysical practice where it pops
up.
It could pop up when you'rehaving a tough conversation with
a friend or making a toughdecision with regards to your
career. And, you know, andyou're like, oh, I I I know what
it feels like to getuncomfortable. And can I be

(50:19):
uncomfortable withoutcollapsing? I think this is
when, you know, when people canwithout this awareness, people
can then make unskillful choicesor engage in unhelpful
behaviors, and then that willerode their trust in themselves.
When I get really angry and whenI'm without awareness of how

(50:40):
that feels and what to do, Ithen start making bad choices I
later regret.
And now I can't trust myselfbecause I'm the person who gets
irrationally angry. You know?It's like so these practices are
designed to help you understand.This is what it feels like when
you're getting when you're 10feet away from your edge. No.
This is what it feels like whenyou're five feet away from your
edge. This is what it feels likewhen you're right at your edge.

(51:00):
And in these practices,sometimes you you get pushed
past your edge. Well, this iswhat that feels like too. Now
without awareness, I can be moreskillful when I inevitably am am
brought to my edge becauseperson x on the sidewalk did a
thing.

And it also helps me at least to understand, like,
what might be the root there of,like, what is bringing me to my
edge? And in the breath workexample, it's like, oh, there's
a little bit of mistrust ofauthority. And control. And
control. And so that becomes mypractice.
It's like, oh, I've hit an edge.What's underneath that? Oh,

(51:39):
somebody else is telling me thebreath count. Right? Like, so
now I'm prickly.

Right. I wanna go back now to acupuncture because
this happened a lot where when Iwould have first time patients,
I would explain, like, theprocess. But sometimes people
would have a really tough timeaccepting the treatment and not
not for the reason we all thinkright now, which is like, oh,
it's sharp. Sharpness isn't athing that happens a lot in

(52:07):
acupuncture. You know, it hasn'tbeen in my experience.
It can be sharp occasionally,but most of the time not. What
people struggle with is all theother sensations that can come
up a heavy, an achy, aspreading, a warming, a
vibrating, a trickling, like,all that sort of stuff can come
up. And people who struggle withrelinquishing control don't like

(52:27):
that a sensation is coming upthat I can't control. And so
very frequently, I would I wouldsay, well, you know, what is
your relationship with control?Because it would legitimately be
freaking them out.
And it was an opportunity forthem to start to work with, can
I can I engage with a medicinethat is going that part of that

(52:49):
is gonna be sensational? And canI get comfortable with feeling a
sensation that I can't control?I just had a big moment with
that. It's like going back to,like, as a kid, like,
controlling my breath. It wassomething I could control,
something I could feel safewith.

And now old patterning that comes up when
I'm in a facilitated breath workis like, oh, you're taking away
my security blanket. Because forthe longest time, me controlling
my breath was what kept me safe,what kept me calm.

So this is a great this is a great thing because,
like, the the work here has lessto do with the breath practice
and everything to do with yourawareness of control. And why?
Because there is gonna be amoment in your life where you
are not gonna be in control,whether you're not gonna be in
full control or there's gonna bea moment where you don't have
the amount of control that youwant, which is maybe some or

(53:47):
none at all. And so why arethese practices in in this
exploration valuable? Well,because what are your choices
then?
Well, you could you could neverpractice. You could never
prepare yourself for thatmoment, and then you could be
thrust into it and actunskillfully, or you can
consciously put yourself inthese moments where you start to
understand how it is so thatwhen you inevitably find

(54:09):
yourself there, it is anunchartered territory. You've
been there before. You have somesense. Trust.
You have you can trust yourselfenough to know these are my
edges. These are the resources Ineed to start to pull in. These
are the questions I need tostart asking. These are I maybe
I like, now I know I need totake some space. Now I need now
I know I need to call thisperson.
Now I you know, you have somethings. If you don't ever look

(54:33):
or practice this, it's a it's aroll of the dice. I hope it goes
well.

Yeah. Mhmm.

No. Truly. And it often doesn't go well. So I
think when people are like, oh,so why do we do a breath work
practice where you start to feela little panicky so that you can
understand what it feels like toget really panicky and see how
what your tendency is in thatmoment. And then start making
choices around is that thetendency that serves you?
Well, if not, can you practicesomething else? What would that
be?

It's helping me surrender. Right? And like the
concept of like, what is it thatI can't control? And the truth
is a shit ton. There's so muchin this world that I cannot
control.
But I can make the consciouschoice to surrender. I can make
the conscious choice to, like,rest in the free fall and, like,

(55:19):
trust the process, trust life,Trust my body. Yeah. Trust that,
like, I've got everything that Ineed to figure out this
complicated roller coaster thatis life if I step back and I
stop trying to control just alittle bit.

And if you get comfortable with with if you get
comfortable with understandingwhat it means to be in a
situation where you either havelimited or no control. So I'm
gonna I kinda wanna wrap up withthis, which is I think I talked
about it here that time onretreat with the sweat lodge.
Yes. Right? And so, recently, ona different retreat, Amir was
talking about potentially doingthat again.

(55:57):
And I'm very excited to try itagain because now that I
understand what's coming, it'sgonna be an opportunity for me
to practice. I know when I getthere and I have this
opportunity, I'm going to benervous and I'm gonna be
uncomfortable, and I'm, youknow, and I'm gonna make some
choices that will hopefully letme do it. But then the value for

(56:18):
me isn't so much in thedetoxification of the sweat, but
in the in the being able to putmyself in a place that where I'm
uncomfortable and with a limitedamount of control and practice
being in that place so that thenext time when it happens in
real life, I will have a greatersense of how how I show up in

(56:39):
those moments and then what Imight need. That's the power of
this work. So it's all about howdo we show up?
Well, if I have no context, youknow, if I only ever practice
feeling really good, then whenyou inevitably don't feel really
good, you're you're not gonnahave been you're not prepared

(56:59):
for that. What are you gonna do?And usually, it's collapse or or
behave unskillfully. So that'swhy we do these practices.
That's why it's so important.
Okay. I got really passionate.Thank you for listening to that.

A lot because it's like you're building you've
built so much more trust inyourself and the capacity of,
like, being in a situation thatcould arise and, like, knowing
so much more about yourself andknowing so much more about the
process and who you're with.You're trusting yourself. You're
trusting the the leadership.You're trusting the the the the
thing. Right?

(57:30):
Like

Well, you know, Amir talks about putting in the
reps when it comes to groupfacilitation and body
facilitation yoga. And, youknow, every time I started doing
something new, teaching dance,teaching yoga, teaching
embodiment, I would get sonervous. I would get so, so
nervous. And a lot of that wasfear. Like, if I don't do it
perfectly, no one's gonna loveme.
They're not gonna have me back.I'm not gonna make enough money.
Blah blah blah blah blah. Andnow I through practice and

(57:56):
through experiencing thosenerves, I have come to trust
myself in a way that is so muchmore easeful. And therefore, I
think of much greater service.
So now when I get up in front ofthe room, I don't have the same
amount of nerves. Even if I amhaving some nerves, I don't have
these debilitating, like, allencompassing nerves. And then I

(58:18):
think I offer something better.It's actually it's more
comfortable. It's more mutuallybeneficial.
Yeah. But it's that trust. I wasthrough practice, I now know I
trust myself to be able todeliver a practice that is of
value and to be able to improvin that practice if I need to.
Your abilities, trust in what'sgonna come through, gonna be

(58:41):
more authentic, gonna be moreyou. But there's like the
putting in the reps is what?
Consistency. So when when thereis consistency, there is greater
trust.

Trust the process. Y'all just continuously show up
for yourselves. I'm just proudof myself. I hope that when you
get to this point in thepodcast, see that today was a
scrambly, rambly day for me. AndI'm just trusting the process.
I'm putting in the reps. Andthis is this is it, y'all. Not
yeah. Like, I don't even knowhow to close this. See?

(59:12):
See? Yeah. Scrambling rolling.But it's okay.

It's okay. Do you feel complete?

And so I wanted to ask as a closing of this
practice, maybe we could do acouple rounds of the one four
two three next breath.

If you're if you're listening or watching at
home, we'll we'll do two roundsof it. The one four two three is
the ratio. But in the practice,we did we doubled it. So it's
you know? Well, just count us.
The one inhale is pretty fast.

Yeah.

So we're gonna inhale for two, hold at the top
for eight, exhale for four, holdat the bottom for six. So let's
take a deep inhale. And anexhale for three two. And ready.
Here we go.
Inhale 21. Holding 87654321.Exhaling 432. Holding out for

(01:00:11):
665432. 1.
Inhale. Two one. Hold in. Eightseven six five four three two
one. Exhale.
Four three two one. Hold out.654321. Release the practice.

(01:00:37):
Let the breath be natural andunaffected.
I promise you if you practicethat breath technique and when I
practice it, I usually do a foursixteen eight twelve. Yep. By
round five or six, you're havingan experience. And then be

(01:01:00):
grateful and you know, with thatexperience and what it has to
teach you.

Eric Bomyea (01:01:04):
Because I'm already feeling a a big shift and, yeah,
a little more stable. Soconsistency in practice and
trusting somebody else. Yeah. Sothank you.

Timothy Bish (01:01:14):
So with that, I feel complete. And I feel
complete too. Let's close oureyes and draw our spine tall.
Take a deep inhale through thenose. Gentle sigh through the
mouth.
And it is with deep appreciationand gratitude for the shared
sacred space, for any insights,awarenesses, or understandings
that may have come that we nowrelease the archetypes and the
spirits that we called in tohold sacred space for us. And

(01:01:37):
with these words, our containeris open but not broken. Uh-huh.

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