June 19, 2025 • 62 mins
In this special two part episode of The Circle, we’re joined by our mentor and teacher Amir Khalighi—founder of Embodied Masculine—for a deep conversation about the father wound, masculine lineage, and the path to healing. Together, we explore how emotional or physical absence from a father figure can shape a man’s identity, disrupt his relationship with power, and perpetuate patterns of codependency, people-pleasing, addiction, and emotional disconnection.
Amir shares his own story of growing up without a present father, how that wound became a gateway to personal transformation, and what it truly means to reclaim masculine integrity and presence. We dive into the hidden cost of being “the good son,” the generational pain men carry, and how men's work offers a path not just to healing—but to purpose, self-trust, and wholeness.
Whether you're working through trust issues with men, navigating unresolved family dynamics, or seeking deeper embodiment and community, this conversation offers compassionate insight and practical encouragement. We also explore how queer men can reclaim both masculine and feminine aspects of themselves, and how every man carries a unique medicine that becomes accessible once the healing begins.
Topics Covered:
- What is the father wound and how it impacts men’s development
- Shadow archetypes: the tyrant, the weakling, and the “good boy”
- How generational trauma is passed through the masculine line
- The danger of solo initiations (e.g., drugs, over-responsibility, isolation)
- Creating safe containers for healing and emotional expression
- Why trust, forgiveness, and community are essential to men’s work
- How queer men are redefining masculinity and reclaiming their power
- The difference between healing and fixing—and how healing actually begins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Bomyea (00:05):
Welcome back to The Circle, the podcast where we go
all in on men's work, embodimentpractice, and personal growth
from our queer perspective. Ifyou're enjoying the show, please
be sure to share your favoriteepisode, leave us a review, and
subscribe. And if you have aquestion about anything that
we've covered in any of theepisodes, please send us a
message. We'd love to hear fromyou. Today we're joined by a man
(00:26):
we've lovingly referenced manytimes on this show, our teacher
and guide, Amir Khaligi.
Amir joins us for a conversationon the father wound, how
generational trauma travelsthrough the masculine line, how
it shapes us, and how we canbegin to heal. Amir is the
founder of Embodied Masculineand has spent decades leading
men back to presence, purpose,and sacred connection. Tim,
(00:49):
Amir, are you ready to go allin?
Timothy Bish (00:51):
I'm ready.
Amir Khaligi (00:52):
Let's do it.
Eric Bomyea (00:53):
Let's fucking go then. Amir, first and foremost,
thank you so much for taking thetime to be with us today.
Amir Khaligi (00:58):
It's my absolute pleasure. I've been looking
forward to it.
Eric Bomyea (01:01):
And so with that, we're just gonna dive right on
in. So when we talk about thefather wound, what does that
mean to you?
Amir Khaligi (01:08):
Well, for me, that would be a primal wound. So this
would be, for me, the firstwound that I can register as a
human being. So when I feel backand I go back into what is the
first the first wound that I caninterpret or I can I can call a
(01:32):
wound would be the absence of myfather in my life? So his
absence immediately impacted andshaped who I've ultimately
become and has subsequentlybirthed my gift into the world.
So, I'd be happy to go into tothat in any which way or any
(01:55):
direction you like.
Timothy Bish (01:56):
Yeah. I I definitely wanna dive a lot into
that. But just for clarity, youwere speaking from personal
experience. Yes. That isn'tnecessarily true for all of the
men that will come into yourspace.
Right? And so there are anynumber of other primal or
foundational wounds. Imaginingthere's probably a mother wound
or other sorts of wounds thatwould occupy the same space for
(02:18):
someone else. Is that true?
Amir Khaligi (02:21):
Absolutely. Absolutely. So if your question
is about my personal experienceand how the father wound played
a role in my life, I can speakinto that. But if we're talking
about wounds in general, that'lltake the conversation in a
different direction. I'd prefer,I think, to share my own
personal experience and aroundthe importance of masculine
(02:47):
figures in men's lives, men andwomen, of course, because I have
direct experience of its impact,and I have direct experience of
the journey that it subsequentlyput me on in understanding,
(03:10):
searching, excavating, listeningto what it means to be a man,
what it means to be a man intoday's society.
And I I think the father woundspecifically, of course, other
wounds are you know, play a roleand and shape who we are. But no
I I would venture to say nowound like the father wound can
have an impact on a man's life.
Timothy Bish (03:32):
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. So I definitely
think we wanna dive into thatbecause I believe and I feel
like I've witnessed men in thework who come with this wound
looking to heal this wound orwork with this wound. And I also
believe a lot of queer men thatI know work with this wound and
are looking for awareness andhealing.
So, yeah, let's dive in.
Eric Bomyea (03:52):
Yeah. I'm curious, just to try to get this shared
understanding and shareddefinition of what do we mean by
the father wound? So what Iheard in your example was a
father wound appeared because ofan absent father. So in what
other ways can a father woundexist? And then I guess even
higher level, like, what is afather wound?
Amir Khaligi (04:12):
That's a great question. So I would say I would
venture to say the absence, thepresence of a father. So whether
he's in the marriage and justabsent or whether he's
physically not there, thepresence the presence of a man
in a child's life in and ofitself creates a space of
(04:40):
equanimity. It it creates theenvironment where the child can
begin to self regulate. Hedoesn't feel like the world is
on his shoulders.
So many men with the fatherwound have had to grow up really
fast. They they they they filledin shoes of the absent father.
(05:02):
And that burden that burden, inand of itself, is painful to
carry, to to to fall intodynamics where we have to play a
certain role that we weren'tmeant to. Right? And and for
altruistic reasons.
So for me, the absence of myfather, really, I I saw the
(05:25):
impact of that on my mother. Andto mitigate some of that, I
started to actually play thehusband role at a very young age
in being the empathetic listeneror trying to mitigate her chaos.
A 10 year old body is not madeto hold that energy. It's not
(05:48):
made to hold that pull. So Iwould say the ab the just
presence.
Just presence. So even theycould be physically there, but
if they're if they're not ifthey're not present with the
with with the child, that'sthat's part of the wounding.
Obviously, there could bewounding that is directed when
(06:12):
the man is living from shadowaspects of self. If he's living
from shadow at like the tyrant.Right?
So one of the shadows of theking is the tyrant. And if you
have a tyrant consistentlyruling, making decisions in his
home. And I'm not talking aboutbeing frustrated or annoyed. I'm
(06:34):
talking about, like, living inhis shadow, living from his
shadow. Like, his come from istyrant.
Right? So if if either he's atyrant on one pole or he is the
weakling on the other pole. Theyboth impact the child similarly.
Right? So for me, my father'sarchetype in his lack of
(06:59):
presence was more in theweakling.
Was more in the weakling. Hewasn't the tyrant. He was
absent. He his presence wasn'tthere. And his father and and
his father and and he himselftook on that pole.
They kind of lost their powerbecause they didn't know how to
work and wield power consciouslyto something greater than
(07:21):
themselves. It's some somethingthat I took the mantle upon, you
know, later on in life when Istarted to, like, deal with
karmic lineage healing and so onand so forth.
Timothy Bish (07:32):
So a thing that I feel like I have observed and
what what and what I heard yousay about this young boy who had
to kind of grow up and step intoroles that were maybe not for
him or appropriate at that timein his life, I feel as if I've
experienced people kind ofrewarding that. Oh, he's so
mature. He he's, like, such agood communicator. He's, like,
(07:54):
so adult for his age. We cankind of frame it in this
positive way.
Can you speak a little bit aboutsome of the dangers or
consequences of asking a young10 year old or 12 year old to be
an adult when they're not yet?
Amir Khaligi (08:10):
Yeah. I mean, first and foremost, we are
robbing them of theeffervescence that comes with
childlike wonder. And we arereally, like, we we are we are
stifling their expression. Weare we are not allowing them to
(08:33):
naturally move into thatevolution, you know, and in a
healthy way that's done through,you know, at at a certain point,
conscious men of the community.They initiate young men into the
fold of what it means to be aman, waking them to the reality
(08:54):
that life doesn't revolve aroundyou, waking them to the reality
that, no, you have a placeamongst us men, and we work for
the greater good of thecommunity.
So that mechanism is alsosomething that contributes to
petulant boys running aroundpretending to be men. Right?
(09:16):
Because they are wielding powerfrom an unconscious self serving
way. So to to just go back toyour question around, like, it
impacts everything. Not having aa a loving father who's settled
(09:40):
in his own life.
Right? So if I'm busy, like,playing roles that I'm not meant
to play. Right? I'll give you anexample. If I haven't severed
let's say, if I haven't reallychanged the dynamic of my
relationship with my mother, doyou think I'm gonna have a
healthy relationship with mywife when I get married one day?
(10:04):
Right? Because I'm gonna havethree people in that marriage if
I don't if if I don't if I haveto self initiate myself, which
is something I had to do. Like,I had to I had to sever you
know, there's there's talkabout, you know, what is that
initiation? And I had to do thatbecause there was no elders.
(10:26):
There was no elders in thespace.
And so most men in societyintuitively self initiate, but
they do it in harmful ways.Drugs and alcohol, right, or
just, hanging out with the wrongpeople. And that's how they
create the cut. That's how I didit too. Mhmm.
Timothy Bish (10:46):
It was incredibly destructive. It feels really
healing just to to say that tolet any person who and I know so
many of them. Right? That had togrow up too fast, too soon or
were responsible for things thatthey should not have been. Just
to say that that isn't what wassupposed to happen and it's okay
that that was a challenge, Ithink is the beginning of of
(11:08):
healing.
But I know then in yourcommunity, so much more work
comes into recognizing that andstepping consciously into our
power.
Amir Khaligi (11:17):
And we can't really consciously step into our
power until we begin to freefall into a relationship with
that aspect of divinity withinour hearts. And what I mean by
that is until then, everythingis predicated on what is
happening on the outside. Evendynamics, relationship dynamics
are, looking outside. Well, ifshe's or, you know, if if so and
(11:43):
so's emotional well-being'sokay, then I'm okay. Right?
Actually, you can be okay withwith with the world spinning
from your bank account going upand down, the house that is your
dream house could disappear andsomething new could come. So
part of the men's work really isabout initiating men on a path
(12:09):
towards that relationship deepwithin their hearts where the
clarity of dynamics come intoplay. Like, you can start seeing
this is not serving me. Thistype of relating to you is not
serving me. Or maybe you outgrowa dynamic.
Maybe it served at one point tobe in a trauma bonded, dynamic.
(12:32):
But as you begin to, we'll callit, evolve or self actualize,
you come to realize, I don'twant that. I don't want that
anymore. Right? So I thinkconsciousness starts to come
online in a new way as we that'swhy we, you know, we call it
(12:54):
men's work.
But at the end of the day, we'rereally becoming really clear
through the detachment of ourattachments, through deeper
listening to navigating,creating a life from our heart
where our soul kind of nudges usin the directions that we you
know, I don't know how esotericand woo woo you wanna go.
Timothy Bish (13:17):
We'll go
Amir Khaligi (13:17):
as deep as you want.
Eric Bomyea (13:18):
Bring on the woo. Bring the woo.
Amir Khaligi (13:21):
Bring in the woo. So I really believe each man
also you know, I mean, we aretalking about, you know, the
impact of what it means. When wetalk about father wound, we're
talking about men's work. Okay?When we talk about father wound,
we're talking about men whodidn't do the work.
And we we are talking about menthen who are picking up the
(13:43):
mantle to do the work. And whenyou pick up the mantle to do the
work that your father didn't,right, you will have to come to
terms with all the ways that youpotentially judged him, shamed
him, thought of him. Likebecause all of that keeps us at
(14:03):
bay from really feeling thefeelings that need to be felt as
part of the healing process aswell. Right?
Eric Bomyea (14:13):
One of the things that I'm hearing around a father
wound is that it's an unhealedor unacknowledged father wound
will or could potentially startto show up in a couple different
ways in a man's life.Codependency, people pleasing,
drugs and alcohol, soloinitiations, things like that.
(14:35):
And then there may come a timein a man's life that they're
like, okay, I've had enough. Andat that point, a little bit of
consciousness comes on of like,I have some healing that I want
to do. There are some issuesthat I want to address.
And then from there, what stepsdo I take? Like, I've started to
(14:55):
realize I've got some thingsthat I'm I'm wanting to work on.
I may not have a full diagnosisthat it is a father wound. So if
I'm in that position, if I'vestarted to identify there are
some of these things, like,where do I go? What is what's
the next step?
Amir Khaligi (15:11):
Well, here's the paradox and the dichotomy
because you're you're gonna needother men, and simultaneously,
it's other men you don't trust.
Eric Bomyea (15:24):
For anyone for anyone that's listening and not
watching, Tim and I both lookedat each other because, like,
that is exactly what you justsaid is the biggest reason why I
continued to do this work. Andand I think I've heard from Tim
as well, like like
Timothy Bish (15:39):
I started I went to men's work specifically
because I do I did not truststraight men. I was like, I do
not feel safe with straight men.I need to heal that. And so I
walked into a men's coachtraining. That's that's how I
came to to be in men's work.
Yeah. Yeah. So, yes, that thatfear and lack of trust is part
of my journey.
Amir Khaligi (15:59):
Yeah. And how much of that journey has, like like,
as you've moved into it, howmuch of that has been about also
your the freedom of your ownunderstanding and self judgments
about what it means to be a man?
Timothy Bish (16:16):
Yeah. If I understand you, I think I was
really holding on I'll justspeak for myself. I was really
holding on to these ideas ofwhat it meant to be a straight
man from the place I grew up,how I differed from that, the
ways in which that was wrong.And I think for a lot of really
valid reasons and decades of ofhaving it reinforced, was
(16:39):
holding on. As I started to getinto men's work, I was able to
start to soften my grip.
I mean, one of the greatestgifts, some of my closest
friends now are are straight menthat I met through men's work.
Where like a place where I wouldotherwise, you know, eight years
ago have felt not at ease. I nowI now have brothers. So the
(17:02):
transformation for me has beenincredible and has changed the
way that I move through theworld. I don't know if I just
answered your question, but Iwas able to release my old ideas
of what like, how I thought Iwas failing or at at being a
man.
Amir Khaligi (17:14):
Right. So it's interesting also because I think
I I mean, I'm very curious. I'mnot I'm not a gay man, so I
don't have the perspective. Butin my world, a man is a man is a
man. Like, I if anything, one ofthe disservice one of the
disservices that really I thinkwe are as a community beginning
(17:39):
to, like, reimagine and redefinefor what it means to be a
masculine being in the world.
You know, such disservice wentinto the subjugation and the
ridicule and the shameperpetuated on young men that
(17:59):
exemplified or amplified anyfeminine essence through their
body. It's it's such a loss.It's such a loss, and it
provides so much work that wehave to do in unwinding that.
Some of the most powerful menthat I know are incredibly
(18:21):
powerful masculine beings on oneend and incredible expressive
feminine beings on the other. Itis it is this capacity to know
the depth of your range and tobe able to work with that from
moment to moment that reallymakes me feel like, oh, this is
(18:44):
a trustworthy human being.
I don't trust anyone whosuppresses any aspect of
themselves or shames other.Right?
Eric Bomyea (18:54):
So that that tells like, that image of that that
kind of, like, healed orrealized man potentially could
be a goal of, like, trying toidentify, work with a father
wound. It's like trying to getus to that point that we can
trust our own masculinity, trustmasculine in others, as well as
(19:18):
owning all parts of ourselves,including our feminine.
Amir Khaligi (19:22):
Well, it becomes internalized misogyny. We don't
even know that we're doing it.Right? We bought into this
paradigm that we are unpacking,that we are unraveling. We're
like, you know what?
I don't buy that. I don't Idon't buy that anymore. Right?
And I for now I saw you, Tim,come into our community, and I
(19:48):
saw the shift. I saw, like, thisveil get removed over your head.
And we can't talk about what wedo at our initiations, but there
was a moment in during theinitiation process during the
MWI program that I literally sawit come across your face. You're
like, oh, I can be who I I canbe me. I'm accepted. I can be
(20:13):
me. And I think if we're talkingabout, like, father wounds, you
know, wounds perpetuated bypatriarchy or however you wanna
frame it, at the end of the day,unconsciousness, self being self
serving.
Like, all of these have playfear have created this paradigm
(20:38):
of masculinity that thisgeneration doesn't want. Right?
And in our community, whatyou'll see is men that are are
living a life in alignment withtheir hearts because they're not
they're not chasing bells andwhistles anymore, and they are
(20:59):
beginning to really come intotheir own. And and and part of
that equals all thatinternalized misogyny that we
that we that we've taken uponourselves. That's why when we
have, like, a feminineembodiment practice, there are
some men that just they have areally hard time being able to
go through all the layers ofshame and and and judgment that,
(21:22):
you know, that that they'reworking.
They're working towards beingable to move. There are some
guys that are completelyimmersed, and there are some
guys that are barely moving.Those guys that are barely
moving, they're working reallyhard. Mhmm.
Timothy Bish (21:34):
Right? I'm really glad that you brought that up
because it's a it's a factor inour queer community. I think
specifically for gay men. Wehave this you know, we've been
given a lot of programming aboutwhat a man should be, this old
thinking that you were justreferring to, what a man should
be, how we differ from it. Andso there is or has been a
(21:56):
movement to try to not be that.
And so, it's sort of verypolitically incorrect. This I
don't know if you've heard ofthis mask for mask. This idea
that as a gay man, I'm onlygonna hook up with or be
attracted to some other personwho fits this idea because we've
been handed that over and over.So, like, the the archetype of
(22:17):
the motorcycle guy, the the theconstruction worker, the police
officer, that's very, like,masculine idea. And if it's
anything femme, they're like, Idon't do I don't do femme.
Don't do this. I don't do that.And it feels like that is what
we're talking about, this oldidea. And then men's work has
for me allowed this thisauthenticity of full expression.
(22:40):
So that Mhmm.
So that the the the man canexpress in all kinds of ways and
that that is ultimately moretrustable.
Amir Khaligi (22:49):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I don't I don't
I don't, you know, I I believeevery man has a seed in his
heart that was planted that he'scome here to bring into
fruition. And along the way, hewill have to go through
(23:09):
healings, and and and that'spart of his evolution and
growth, right, and coming toterms with what that is for him
on this round. Right?
So on this round, the fatherwound was the one that I like,
when they were, like, handingout things to work on, they were
like, okay. Father wound whowants to take the massive father
(23:30):
wound and then start to workwith men later in his life, and
that's gonna become I would be
Eric Bomyea (23:35):
like, Order number 57. 50 7. I'll
Amir Khaligi (23:39):
take it. I'll take it. And on on the surface level,
it would it it looks pretty hardand devastating. Oh, my father
was a, you know, drug addict. Hewas he was a heroin user.
He did time. I mean, he like, hewas and and he put so much fear
into me about who he was that Ireally kept him at bay. I judged
(24:01):
him. I didn't wanna haveanything to do with him. And
even after he died, I didn'twanna have anything to do with
him.
You know? I didn't understandhim. I judged him, And it took a
long time for me to come toterms with the fact that these
(24:21):
these mechanisms that I put inplace to keep him at bay were
really around me not feeling thedeeper feelings that I was
avoiding to feel. Right? Thedevastation of what it feels
like not to have a father aroundwhen you're young.
The the anger around how fuckingcould you. You've missed
(24:44):
everything. You missed all ofit. You missed my grand you
missed your grandchildren. Ineeded you in these times of my
life.
Like, the anger, giving myselfthe permission to begin to feel
deeply into all the feels. Andwhen that started when I did
that, the judgments began todrop, and then I began to see
(25:07):
him and myself in that. I Istopped judging my my
patriarchal line, and, I startedto have an healing experience
over who I was in my placeamongst my people, you know,
until then. And, you know? Sofrom the wound to the healing,
(25:27):
you know, at the end of the day,on this path, it has to happen.
Timothy Bish (25:32):
One of the things you you just mentioned, which I
wanna highlight, that in men'swork, we often come into safe
containers where we can thenhave some of these messy or raw
experiences safely to take thataway. So what what I was hearing
you say was allowing yourself tofeel the feeling. Some of those
feelings were, probably impoliteor or rough or big or any number
(25:57):
of things. Right? And so men'swork is one one place where with
safety and consciousness andguidance and support, we can
engage in that process so thatwe can move forward, you know,
in the direction of ourauthenticity and our purpose
and, in service to the highestgood rather than not really
knowing how to work with thispower and then having it come
(26:19):
out sideways.
Eric Bomyea (26:20):
You
Amir Khaligi (26:20):
Look. This this power is energy. Okay? It knee
it's either flowing through usor we're or we're stifled and
blocked by it. Right?
So, like, for our community andand other men's groups, maybe
they're more talk talk related.People wanna talk their way
through it. In our community,we're somatic. We we believe in
(26:42):
the wisdom of the body. So oncea week, what do we do?
Like, hopefully, you're doing itfor more than once a week. But,
you know, you come to a spacewhere for seventy five to eighty
minutes, your attention goesinward, and you begin to tend
and be with yourself. You beginto rely on those practices to go
to crevices to explore and bewith and express and journey and
(27:09):
to understand yourself indifferent ways. I mean, that is
such a missing component insociety for men. Like, it's just
go go go go produce produceproduce produce.
Oh, you're not producing. Shameshame shame shame shame shame.
I'm sorry. It feels likesomebody's fucking using me like
(27:30):
a battery. Mhmm.
Yeah. And I don't want that.
Eric Bomyea (27:35):
Agreed. I first wanna thank you, Amir, for for
sharing your story and lettingus in on on the background of
your father and how thatimpacted you. And so I'm I'm
wrapping my head around thisthat if we have fathers who are
either physically or emotionallynot present in our lives, then
(27:56):
they are not modeling thefullness of the human experience
that a man can have. And so thenI may start to repress certain
parts of myself, or go throughthis life with certain
conditions or certain ways inwhich I can have things come out
(28:17):
sideways. And it's then throughthe work of bringing on a little
bit of consciousness to be like,oh, okay, I see that thing.
I wanna work towards that, and Iwanna bring more of myself, more
of my fullness here. And that tome is a big part of men's work.
Right? And starting to heal thatmisogyny, that internal
(28:41):
misogyny, that external misogynythat we had and connecting it
that misogyny and that way thatwe treat ourselves and each
other can be can stem from thefather wound, the lack of
presence either physically oremotionally of a man in our
lives that can help us to be inour fullness. Am I
(29:03):
understanding?
Am I, like, in the ballparkhere?
Amir Khaligi (29:06):
Absolutely. Listen. A man that is that is
settled in himself, a man thatis connected to his heart, a man
that is living a life that'spurpose driven. And what I mean
by that, he's he's in alignmentto, like, living in accordance
with what is meaningful to himfor the highest good of all that
that are around him. A man thatis living that life, his simple
(29:31):
presence is healing for a child.
His simple beingness around thefamily is healing. Do you
understand? So the more presenceand the more the the more I take
care of myself, the more othersare taken care of.
Eric Bomyea (29:48):
And to get to that point, part of the the healing
is is working with our fathers,whether they are here or not. So
can we talk a little bit about,like, the the the process of
beginning that healing?
Amir Khaligi (30:03):
Yeah. I I think the process starts when we stop
looking outwards for dopaminehits to deal with
uncomfortability and reallybecome willing to face the
deeper the deeper asks of what'sreally going on within.
(30:28):
Generally, that process is notdone alone. Generally, that
process is done either with amentor, with a group of other
men that have gone through thisand now can share with you how
to navigate these waters. Like,what is the fucking problem?
Like, I just know that I'mmiserable. I I I'm not
(30:51):
fulfilled. Right? I just like,somebody fucking help me.
Eric Bomyea (30:55):
Mhmm.
Amir Khaligi (30:56):
Right? So sometimes it needs to get to
that. Or I'm about to lose mypartner or my husband or wife.
And, like, people wake up likethere's a rattle. Like, there's
a rattle.
That's that's how most men cometo men's work. And then we're
like, okay. Great. There's theopening. We're gonna look in.
(31:19):
But the the the but but but ifit was like, nope. I know you
think it's that. I know youthink if you just had more money
or if so and so didn't say thator all these things that are
outside of you that are runningyou. They're running you. You
know what else is running you?
(31:40):
Limiting beliefs. You know whatelse is running you? Shadow
aspects of self. So listen. Whydon't we slow down, come into
this container, and we'll guideyou through a process where you
can have space and time fromother men who've gone through
(32:00):
it, and we'll show you how tolook inward.
We'll show you how to be with.We'll show you how to develop
your capacity to be withuncomfortability. We'll show you
how to arrest suffering butdeepen your capacity for holding
the evolution of pain. And whenI say it, all things that grow
(32:22):
include pain and and to relearnwhat that means, to redefine
that for ourselves. So all thishappens, hopefully, from men who
innately wanna give that toother men.
(32:42):
And why are you doing thispodcast? That very reason. Yeah.
That very reason. Right?
To bring hope to someone who iscompletely fucking lost that two
nights ago may was thinking ofchecking out. And the message
(33:03):
here is, hey, brother. Pause fora second. Come tell me about it.
Come hang out with us.
Just hang out with us. Don't doanything. Just hang out. Hang
out with us. Simply by beingaround other men who are
(33:24):
embodied, who are and alignedwith their hearts and their
path, There's healing just inbeing around that.
So who are you hanging out with?Who are you spending your time
with? What environment do youlive in? What does it promote?
(33:47):
You can have the best intentionto grow this flower, but if you
put the seedling in a dark roomand never water it, I'm sorry.
Timothy Bish (33:58):
Really glad that you said that because, I do feel
like in this world people want areally quick fix. Of course, I
want that too. I I would likeall my problems to be solved
like right away. But it it feelslike you're speaking to an
obviously an experience thatI've had personally, the
importance of coming back.Especially if we are in a place
(34:21):
in our lives or in the worldwhere this inundation of
distraction and other things.
So this coming back and so theimage I'm having now is this
sort of spiral. We keep comingback to the practice with, like,
a deepening and deepening anddeepening of understanding. Can
you speak a little bit to that,the importance of
Amir Khaligi (34:39):
that? Mhmm. Well, I think I think if you don't
latch your lasso into a parallelstructure that cultivates this
otherness, you're fucked. You'reyou're fucked because because
you're competing against thesociety that is a consumerism
(35:02):
society that just wants todevour everything that's
worthwhile and turn it into acommodity, and it'll use you and
abuse you. And you'll you'll gofurther and further away from
you.
So find a community of men thatyou feel comfortable hanging out
(35:24):
with and doing some of this workin whatever form it takes. Our
community has a certain flavor,and it's meant for certain
people. Some meant foreverybody. But if you're if if
you come into our space and youexperience our practices and
where we go and what it does andthe way we do it and the way we
(35:44):
hold it, you know, we come fromdifferent traditions that we you
know, it may not be everybody'scup of tea. But for those that
it is, that's your space.
Now you're in a parallelstructure where everybody has a
culture of, like, living thisway, and you are going to have
an ecosystem that you can comeback to no matter how how far it
(36:08):
takes you, and then you comeback. Takes you and it comes
back. You know, there's ebb andflow in here. We are living in
in this. We are living in Rome,and Rome must receive its taxes.
I get it. But, you know, a niceJewish carpenter, and I'm not
religious at all. Like, you knowme. I'm not religious at all. He
said, you know, be in thisworld, but not of it.
(36:29):
You know, I think what he'stalking about is like, okay. I I
know where to go to keep thisother essence of me alive while
I come into my clarity, while Icome into my healing, while I
come into my self actualizationand take my rightful place in
what I'm called to do.
Timothy Bish (36:50):
I'm so glad you're bringing this up because, you
know, the the power in thiscommunity, of course, it is
ideal when we can come togetherand be in the same share the
same physical space. But wedon't need that to feel our
brotherhood. And so I just justa few days ago had a call with,
a man. He was in my little podin my coach training in 2020.
(37:12):
And we hadn't connected in along time.
And my tank was so full afterninety minutes of a Zoom
conversation with this man. Thisman who I've met in person two
times. I helped him and his wifemove their apartment. And the
power. I'm like, oh my tank isfull because I trust this person
and we are far apart.
(37:32):
So if you're listening, that'swhy we're doing this podcast and
why you know, Amir you have youronline circle every Wednesday
night. These these are powerful,and they can provide you with
this thing even if you can'tnecessarily be in the same room
with someone. You can still havethe benefit of this feeling
held, safe, being guided, andthis community of conscious
(37:57):
support through this process. Itis really, really nourishing. So
anyone listening right now, ifyou don't have a circle like we
have in Provincetown that youcan go to in person, there are
still places you can go.
There are lots of differentresources available if you are
wanting this sort of support andengagement. And we all come to
these spaces with differentthings that we're working on,
(38:20):
right? For some
Eric Bomyea (38:21):
of us, it may be a father wound. For others, it may
be something else. But when wecome together and we are
witnessing each other as men andwitnessing other men in their
expression and in theirvulnerability, it it like gives
this permission that like, oh, Ican start to bring a little bit
(38:42):
more of myself as well. And indoing that, there's so much
healing that starts to happen.And I just think about my time
on retreat with the two of you.
Right? Like I felt comfortable,but there was still a part of me
that was like a little guarded.And it took a big experience for
me to really start to like, oh,I'm working with some trust
(39:06):
issues here. And I need toreally admit that and be
vulnerable and admit that. Andthen through that, being able to
work with other men and seeother men and have other men see
me helped me to start to healthat part of myself so that now
I can go through the world alittle bit more conscious, a
(39:28):
little bit more aware, and alittle bit more grounded in my
fullness to hopefully be able tooffer that to others.
Right? And kind of thisgenerational thing. Like, I had
some shit happen to me. I'm notgoing to blame anymore. I'm
going to say it happened.
I'm working on it so that I cankind of, like, then put forth
(39:51):
new energy out into the world.
Amir Khaligi (39:55):
Yeah. What I what I wanna just kinda tap like,
just write on that statement.What I wanna say is, like,
you're actually not responsiblefor creating the healing. K?
You're not trust me.
You're not doing you're notdoing the healing. Cut cut your
own cut your own hand and sayheal. You're not doing the
(40:20):
healing. What you're responsiblefor is putting yourself in the
optimum environment for healing.
Timothy Bish (40:30):
My my yoga mentor, Narayani, would always say
create the causes for what youwanna see in the world.
Amir Khaligi (40:35):
Mhmm.
Timothy Bish (40:36):
That I'd like, you know, create the causes, create
the environment into which youlike, the thing you want grows.
I feel like that's sort of whatwhat you're saying too. Find
this environment. Create thespace where healing can exist.
Amir Khaligi (40:49):
Like Eric said, he he was feeling safe enough to
kind of bring his shoulders downand start to let more of life
start to come in. Like, life ismeant to be experienced in a
surrendered state, not in aperpetual state of vigilance.
Timothy Bish (41:13):
Oh, I'm clocked. Clocked. Let's go back in time
thirty years and say that to me,please.
Amir Khaligi (41:22):
So when you when you when you come into a space
where the culture is there, thenit's up to you on when the
flower blooms. And this issomething I I really just kind
of dislike in the polarityteachings is this kind of
unconscious shaming of of womenand their closures. In in
(41:49):
polarity teachings, oh, you'rethere's something wrong with you
if you have a closure. I'msorry. I'm pretty sure the
closure is there for a purpose.
And you have the dignity ofbeing closed as long as you
want. A flower blooms when theenvironment is right for it to
(42:13):
bloom. No flower ever fuckingbloomed because you shamed or
yelled at it. Yeah. Right?
So and I know that's a differentparadigm. It's a different
world. It's it's it's, you know,men and women trying to create
polarity, and I get that. It's aseparate issue. But I I'm what
I'm talking about is the wisdomof the body's closure until it
(42:38):
feels ready.
Like Eric was saying, you knowwhat? It took me a couple days,
and then I I started takingdeeper breaths. And when I when
you start taking deeper breaths,what do you think you're letting
well, you're letting go on theexhale. You're opening on the
exhale. You're more receptive tobe impacted by life.
Right? And I think a lot of menthat have father wounds are so
(43:02):
contracted because they've hadto take on so much at a young
age that they don't know how tolet go. They don't know how to
trust. What am I trusting into?Right?
What you're trusting into is afree fall relationship to
something magical in your heartthat will be the comfort, the
(43:22):
guidance, the heat, the the musefor how you live your life. And
I think true men's work shouldbe driving men to that
relationship.
Timothy Bish (43:34):
So I'm really glad that you brought that up because
I have I'm curious to hear fromyou. Men come into your space
and they see you. I'm about toshower you with appreciation.
You are one of, my favoritepeople and one of the first
straight men that I felt socomfortable and and could trust
with my whole self. And so mencome into your space, trying to
(43:59):
create the causes for thehealing that they're wanting and
being guided by these practices.
I'd love for you to chat alittle bit about men who are
opening and opening, but thenmeet a contraction again,
whether, you know, and andproject that onto you. I mean, I
definitely I've I've observedthis moment where you've been
(44:20):
doing the thing and then onething kind of goes wrong and
suddenly it's like, ah, I knewit. Like, you know. And can you
talk about that? Because I feellike most people going through
this process are going to have amoment like that.
Maybe not with a particularperson, but that it's gonna come
up. Can you can you speak tothat a bit?
Amir Khaligi (44:39):
Yeah. What you're what you're what you're
referencing is transference.Okay? It's a union term where,
you know, the stuff that you'redealing with needs to be put on
somebody else because it's toohard to be with. Okay?
And whenever you're in aleadership position and, you
(45:00):
know, you're leading circles andthe more the deeper you go with
the opening of people, someprojections will come your way.
And the way I've had to learn towork with that is, a, to not
(45:20):
take it personally, and, b, givethem the dignity of their their
travels. If if if they need totake their father wounding
because I'm naturally in a in ain a kind of in a patriarchal
(45:41):
position holding this communityfrom birthing it to what I how
I, you know you know, run, youknow, programs. And just
naturally, I'm in a leadershipposition, and you'll you'll and
it's very similar to the dynamicof the father or the mother.
Right?
So it's inevitable that somepeople that will need to they
(46:03):
they won't know how to work withthat angst and the the the depth
of that pain, we'll say. Andit'll be easier to communicate
that through transference or tryto project that. And I I don't
pick it up. It's like playingtug of war. There's no tug of
war if not both people arepulling.
(46:23):
If there's only tug of war whenthere's two people pulling. So
when I see the rope come my way,I don't pick it up. If somebody
wants to have a conversationwith me, I'll be more than happy
to clean or clear the space ifthey need to express something.
And if it's all, like, vitriolicprojections, I'm not gonna give
(46:44):
that too much time. I'll knowpretty quickly.
But if I sense that they'rereally working with this piece
and there's some consciousnessaround the fact that they are,
like it's really triggered thembecause of their past history
and they, you know, they careenough to come to me, then we
(47:04):
have an opportunity for healing.Because I have an opportunity to
show up in a different way thanthey're used to, and they have
an opportunity to be back inthat space of that vulnerability
and express themselves maybebefore they got shut down and
shamed. But with this couragenow, like, you know so I found
myself many a times playing thatlet's rewrite this script
(47:29):
together moment. Because I cantell. I can I can feel like
their work they're, like, halftriggered, they're half
projecting, but they're trying?
And I can get to the core ofwhat the thing is, and then
hopefully that becomes a healingmoment.
Eric Bomyea (47:42):
So to translate, father transference aka
rejecting daddy issues? Yeah.Pretty much. Is that what we're
talking about? Okay.
Amir Khaligi (47:51):
Yeah. That's what we're talking about.
Timothy Bish (47:52):
You wanted to say that phrase this I've been
Eric Bomyea (47:55):
wait I've been waiting for the opportune
moment, and that was
Amir Khaligi (47:57):
You say daddy issues?
Eric Bomyea (47:58):
Just say
Amir Khaligi (47:58):
daddy issues. Daddy issues.
Eric Bomyea (48:01):
But, yeah, so it's it's father transference. So I'm
I'm in this space. I've startedto work on myself, and I'm,
like, I'm in a place of ofopenness, openness, openness.
And then all of a sudden, atrigger happens. I get a
closure, and I'm, projecting mydaddy issues onto you.
And so through a healthyconversation and addressing it
and acknowledging it, then thereare then steps that can be
(48:24):
taken. And I'm just gonna speakabout a recent example that
happened with you, with me goingthrough shadow work, was that I
was able to, in that that deepexperience, actually come out
the other side becoming my ownfather. Like Mhmm. Fathering
myself and tending to myself. Sothat is one way in which you can
(48:47):
guide men to to to working withthat so that they don't project
it onto you and onto otherpeople.
Are there other ways that thatmen can can work with that part?
Amir Khaligi (48:57):
Mhmm. It's a great question. And I'll start by
saying, you know, part of thefather wound is is trusting men
again. Right? So or especiallymen in leadership positions.
Right? Men in general that youknow? So first and foremost, I
would say, the first stage is tolearn how to be a safe container
(49:21):
for yourself. To begin to beginto be a safe container for
yourself, like, even though youmay be in a deep practice, there
is a part of you that's like,okay. I got me.
Mhmm. Like, I I I I can I can bewith this? I can allow this
feeling to go deeper. I canallow the heartbreak to keep
going. A part of me's got this.
(49:42):
Right? For me, when it came to,like, one of the biggest healing
experiences of my adult life waswith my was around my father.
And I was I was in a ceremony,and I I started to get those
feelings. I started to likelike, the tender child, like,
(50:06):
ones that you were experiencing.I I was they were coming in big,
and I immediately was like, oh,wait.
I know how to do this. I teachthis. I I I started to, like,
create that space for myself tostart having my own feelings,
really starting to feel them.And then I could feel also,
like, oh, fuck. I would reallylove if I could have this
(50:29):
experience with my father.
And then I got you know? Andthen, like and then the sadness,
like, all my stuff around himstarted to come up now. And I
was like, I don't know if I canhold this. Right? And I was in
ceremony, and I kid you not.
As soon as I started to tuneinto the part of my feelings
(50:50):
around him, I could feel hispresence. I could feel his
presence. And the more and moreI allowed myself to feel those
feelings, what I was doing wasactually taking my own hands off
of being the safe container andtrusting him again that he in
this highest he's passed awaysubsequently twenty years. Then
(51:12):
I started to really give myselfpermission to fully feel those
feelings around the loss of nothaving him in my life in the way
I needed it. And, subsequently,once all those feelings are
fully owned and expressed,that's part of, like, the
masculine issue is if you readking, warrior, magician, lover,
(51:33):
men move into shadow states isbecause, one, they're not in
alignment to a greater calling,and two, it's because they're
not expressing energies.
They're stat think shit's shutoff, right, or it's coming
outside. And once I was able toreally express and feel those
feelings in in the in the depthsof where they were, that's
(51:54):
really when I started toexperience a different profound
healing with him and see himdifferently, really see myself
and my my my patriarchal linedifferently. I was like, yeah.
You know what? All this judgmentabout, oh, they're tattooed up
and, like, they're streethustlers.
(52:16):
Like, I'm like, wait a minute.Fucking covered in tattoos. I'm
like, I'm I'm one of I I I amone of them. Like, know, I
stopped I stopped judging us. Istopped having to be the good
son, the good father, the goodlike, even that is shadow.
Shadow doesn't always have to bethis, like, dark, aggressive,
(52:38):
violent, suppressed anger.Sometimes it's good boy. I'm
just gonna be the best father.I'm just gonna be the best
father in the world because myfather wasn't in my life, so
I'll be the best. No.
I don't mean I mean, number onefather on the planet. That's
shadow. Because what happenswhen my eldest daughter doesn't
(52:59):
wanna have anything to do withme and judges me? I'm
devastated. But if I wasn't runon shadow, I would be like, you
know, I know who I am.
I know what I've done.
Timothy Bish (53:10):
So I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit
about I feel like you're, in thezone now, about forgiveness. So
my my yoga teacher, Sharon Gfrom Jeeva Mukti Yoga, often
said, you know, everyone's doingthe best they can at any given
moment. And so when we engage inthis work, it feels like we have
(53:30):
to allow ourselves the fullbreadth of our emotional
experience, but then alsorecognizing, you know, were our
fathers or our grandfathers orour uncles or whomever modeled
these tools, modeled these waysof being. And so when we do the
work, how important isforgiveness and that perspective
(53:51):
in how we move forward throughour process?
Amir Khaligi (53:55):
Forgiveness really opens the channels of life force
to flow again. Right? We're in astate of openness. We're in a
state of receptivity when wehave fully forgiven. We are
reengaging with life again.
Any contractions in the body, wewe need to be aware of them.
(54:16):
Right? And if it's trauma, weneed to tend. Like, it requires
our attention. But in a in aperfect state, we are in a
complete surrendered open state.
Right? There's no tigers comingto hunt, like, get us. We don't
like, that primal aspect of selfis incredibly important as a as
a as a way to tap into power,but the vigilance and the contr
(54:40):
like, constantly being overlyworried, like, then we know
there's something off. So whatforgiveness really does, it it
says, I'm a yes to life again.I'm a yes to relationships
again.
And just because I forgive youdoesn't mean I have to go back
into relationship with you. ButI am going to be open to the
next person I'm in relationshipwith. I have to forgive you
(55:04):
completely if I want to have ifI wanna launch, like, in a clean
slate with somebody else. Thedepth of my intimacy is
predicated on how many, like, exrelationships I have completely
healed and, like like,completely honored and, like,
felt complete with.
Timothy Bish (55:24):
I'm hearing forgiveness as a radical act of
self care, having much more todo with you and how you show up
moving forward than it doesnecessarily with any particular
circumstance or or individual.Am I hearing you right?
Amir Khaligi (55:38):
Yeah. I mean, think about it. In our in our
MWI program, three and a halfmonths, we talk about the the
temple body. We talk about thetemple body. We talk about how
we leak energy.
We leak energy. And when we leakenergy, we can't quite step into
that version of ourselves thatwe are aspiring to to become.
There's a lot of moving partshere from forgiveness to
(56:00):
limiting beliefs to integrityissues to, unfulfilled
reconciliations to the all thedamage we've done into the world
that we need to come intobalance with, you know, low
vibrating traits that we have toreally come to terms with within
ourselves. I mean, this is agrowth process. This is a
journey of self actualization.
(56:22):
But at the end of the day, weare returning to a state of
full, you know, reverence andawe for life. Right? Like, life
was meant to be lived inreverence and awe. It wasn't
meant yes. There's always been,like, wars and things we could
(56:45):
focus on, but in its essence inits essence, I mean, look
outside.
I'm looking outside of my tree.It's got hundreds of oranges,
like, pouring out of it. It itthe the tree is not giving us
plastic bags. It's not giving usrubber shoes. It's giving us
it's giving us fruit.
So it is in the essence of oflife force essence is love. It
(57:10):
is that's why we call hermother, mother earth. She's
constantly giving, right, theessence that runs through her.
So I think part of men's work,not part, I think a big part of
men's work is is re re returningto that wholeness of self. Free
from all the fears and and allthe noise and free from the the
(57:32):
pain of recreating events in ourlives that keep, like,
repeating.
Like and really becoming thecurators of the life that we
want to paint and create andlive. Like, you can have that.
You can have that. You don'thave to settle. You can have you
(57:54):
can have what your heartdesires.
I really, really believe that.
Eric Bomyea (58:02):
Really deeply appreciative of being able to to
be in the presence of you twomen and have had the opportunity
to learn so much and to be heldas I've I've been in the
environment to be able to havehealing happen. And I'm just
(58:23):
deeply appreciative and deeplyin awe of of the message that
that just came through with thatthat bit. So this conversation
could go on for hours. And I dobelieve that in many ways, it
will continue for a lifetime inmy heart, in our hearts, and in
the hearts of everyone listeningright now. And so, Amir, as we
(58:43):
close, what's one thing that youwould offer to a man who feels
the ache of this wound and isready to begin?
Amir Khaligi (58:52):
Yeah. I just wanna I just wanna encourage you to
avail yourself to to men thatsee you, that can empathize with
you, that have the capacity tobe with you as you are. And I
want you to know that as youbegin to tend to this wound,
(59:15):
right beneath the wound, thereis a pot of gold. And that pot
of gold, when you claim it, willbecome the medicine that you
will serve, that you will payback in return for the healing,
for the empowerment, for thefreedom that you will experience
in facing aspects of yourselfthat you've been avoiding and
(59:39):
facing. So I just want you toknow that the best is yet to
come.
Eric Bomyea (59:46):
Mhmm. With that, I feel very Tim, how do you feel?
Timothy Bish (59:51):
I just before we finish this episode, I just have
to say I am a strong believer insynchronicity and cocreating our
reality. And it was a littleover four years ago that I
happened onto Instagram to seean Instagram interview, which is
happening a lot right afterpandemic, with a man named Amir
(01:00:14):
talking about one of the fourmasculine archetypes. And it it
is not surprising to me at allthat you have found your way
into my life. And it is in largepart because of you and your
community that I haveexperienced the changes and the
(01:00:35):
growth that I have. I feelunbelievably proud of so many of
the things that I've created andyou are a huge part of this.
You know, you you say put astake in the ground, like, so to
have you now on this podcast,which is an extension of the
circles, which are an extensionof our time together and your
(01:00:59):
teachings, just feels sobeautiful and magical. So I just
need to take this moment ofdeep, deep appreciation and
gratitude. Again, I'vereferenced my teacher, Sharon
Gannon. She said that what weshould say to our teachers, I
will say to you now, thank you.Please keep teaching me.
Please stay in my life. I loveyou.
Amir Khaligi (01:01:21):
Oh my god. I love you both so much. I love you,
and I'm so proud of thisincredible podcast that you've
that you've birthed. And I Ijust know it's reaching the
hearts and ears of, you know,some men that desperately
desperately need a new way ofbeing and living in the world.
(01:01:45):
And you two are taking yourrightful place, and that makes
me incredibly proud.
I love you both.
Timothy Bish (01:01:52):
I feel complete. I love
Eric Bomyea (01:01:53):
you too. And question to you, Amir. Are you
complete?
Amir Khaligi (01:01:57):
I am complete. Tim, will
Eric Bomyea (01:02:00):
you take us out, please?
Timothy Bish (01:02:01):
I will. Let's close our eyes. And just for one
more moment, allow ourselves toswim in these ideas, these
shared sacred time together, anyawarenesses, insights,
understandings that may havecome. And as we leave this
circle, I wish us all safety,community, brotherhood, and
(01:02:24):
love. In this moment, I releasethe archetypes and the spirits.
And with these words, ourcontainer is open but not
broken. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. No.
Welcome back to The Circle, the podcast where we go
all in on men's work, embodimentpractice, and personal growth
from our queer perspective. Ifyou're enjoying the show, please
be sure to share your favoriteepisode, leave us a review, and
subscribe. And if you have aquestion about anything that
we've covered in any of theepisodes, please send us a
message. We'd love to hear fromyou. Today we're joined by a man
(00:26):
we've lovingly referenced manytimes on this show, our teacher
and guide, Amir Khaligi.
Amir joins us for a conversationon the father wound, how
generational trauma travelsthrough the masculine line, how
it shapes us, and how we canbegin to heal. Amir is the
founder of Embodied Masculineand has spent decades leading
men back to presence, purpose,and sacred connection. Tim,
(00:49):
Amir, are you ready to go allin?
Timothy Bish (00:51):
I'm ready.
Amir Khaligi (00:52):
Let's do it.
Eric Bomyea (00:53):
Let's fucking go then. Amir, first and foremost,
thank you so much for taking thetime to be with us today.
Amir Khaligi (00:58):
It's my absolute pleasure. I've been looking
forward to it.
Eric Bomyea (01:01):
And so with that, we're just gonna dive right on
in. So when we talk about thefather wound, what does that
mean to you?
Amir Khaligi (01:08):
Well, for me, that would be a primal wound. So this
would be, for me, the firstwound that I can register as a
human being. So when I feel backand I go back into what is the
first the first wound that I caninterpret or I can I can call a
(01:32):
wound would be the absence of myfather in my life? So his
absence immediately impacted andshaped who I've ultimately
become and has subsequentlybirthed my gift into the world.
So, I'd be happy to go into tothat in any which way or any
(01:55):
direction you like.
Timothy Bish (01:56):
Yeah. I I definitely wanna dive a lot into
that. But just for clarity, youwere speaking from personal
experience. Yes. That isn'tnecessarily true for all of the
men that will come into yourspace.
Right? And so there are anynumber of other primal or
foundational wounds. Imaginingthere's probably a mother wound
or other sorts of wounds thatwould occupy the same space for
(02:18):
someone else. Is that true?
Amir Khaligi (02:21):
Absolutely. Absolutely. So if your question
is about my personal experienceand how the father wound played
a role in my life, I can speakinto that. But if we're talking
about wounds in general, that'lltake the conversation in a
different direction. I'd prefer,I think, to share my own
personal experience and aroundthe importance of masculine
(02:47):
figures in men's lives, men andwomen, of course, because I have
direct experience of its impact,and I have direct experience of
the journey that it subsequentlyput me on in understanding,
(03:10):
searching, excavating, listeningto what it means to be a man,
what it means to be a man intoday's society.
And I I think the father woundspecifically, of course, other
wounds are you know, play a roleand and shape who we are. But no
I I would venture to say nowound like the father wound can
have an impact on a man's life.
Timothy Bish (03:32):
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. So I definitely
think we wanna dive into thatbecause I believe and I feel
like I've witnessed men in thework who come with this wound
looking to heal this wound orwork with this wound. And I also
believe a lot of queer men thatI know work with this wound and
are looking for awareness andhealing.
So, yeah, let's dive in.
Eric Bomyea (03:52):
Yeah. I'm curious, just to try to get this shared
understanding and shareddefinition of what do we mean by
the father wound? So what Iheard in your example was a
father wound appeared because ofan absent father. So in what
other ways can a father woundexist? And then I guess even
higher level, like, what is afather wound?
Amir Khaligi (04:12):
That's a great question. So I would say I would
venture to say the absence, thepresence of a father. So whether
he's in the marriage and justabsent or whether he's
physically not there, thepresence the presence of a man
in a child's life in and ofitself creates a space of
(04:40):
equanimity. It it creates theenvironment where the child can
begin to self regulate. Hedoesn't feel like the world is
on his shoulders.
So many men with the fatherwound have had to grow up really
fast. They they they they filledin shoes of the absent father.
(05:02):
And that burden that burden, inand of itself, is painful to
carry, to to to fall intodynamics where we have to play a
certain role that we weren'tmeant to. Right? And and for
altruistic reasons.
So for me, the absence of myfather, really, I I saw the
(05:25):
impact of that on my mother. Andto mitigate some of that, I
started to actually play thehusband role at a very young age
in being the empathetic listeneror trying to mitigate her chaos.
A 10 year old body is not madeto hold that energy. It's not
(05:48):
made to hold that pull. So Iwould say the ab the just
presence.
Just presence. So even theycould be physically there, but
if they're if they're not ifthey're not present with the
with with the child, that'sthat's part of the wounding.
Obviously, there could bewounding that is directed when
(06:12):
the man is living from shadowaspects of self. If he's living
from shadow at like the tyrant.Right?
So one of the shadows of theking is the tyrant. And if you
have a tyrant consistentlyruling, making decisions in his
home. And I'm not talking aboutbeing frustrated or annoyed. I'm
(06:34):
talking about, like, living inhis shadow, living from his
shadow. Like, his come from istyrant.
Right? So if if either he's atyrant on one pole or he is the
weakling on the other pole. Theyboth impact the child similarly.
Right? So for me, my father'sarchetype in his lack of
(06:59):
presence was more in theweakling.
Was more in the weakling. Hewasn't the tyrant. He was
absent. He his presence wasn'tthere. And his father and and
his father and and he himselftook on that pole.
They kind of lost their powerbecause they didn't know how to
work and wield power consciouslyto something greater than
(07:21):
themselves. It's some somethingthat I took the mantle upon, you
know, later on in life when Istarted to, like, deal with
karmic lineage healing and so onand so forth.
Timothy Bish (07:32):
So a thing that I feel like I have observed and
what what and what I heard yousay about this young boy who had
to kind of grow up and step intoroles that were maybe not for
him or appropriate at that timein his life, I feel as if I've
experienced people kind ofrewarding that. Oh, he's so
mature. He he's, like, such agood communicator. He's, like,
(07:54):
so adult for his age. We cankind of frame it in this
positive way.
Can you speak a little bit aboutsome of the dangers or
consequences of asking a young10 year old or 12 year old to be
an adult when they're not yet?
Amir Khaligi (08:10):
Yeah. I mean, first and foremost, we are
robbing them of theeffervescence that comes with
childlike wonder. And we arereally, like, we we are we are
stifling their expression. Weare we are not allowing them to
(08:33):
naturally move into thatevolution, you know, and in a
healthy way that's done through,you know, at at a certain point,
conscious men of the community.They initiate young men into the
fold of what it means to be aman, waking them to the reality
(08:54):
that life doesn't revolve aroundyou, waking them to the reality
that, no, you have a placeamongst us men, and we work for
the greater good of thecommunity.
So that mechanism is alsosomething that contributes to
petulant boys running aroundpretending to be men. Right?
(09:16):
Because they are wielding powerfrom an unconscious self serving
way. So to to just go back toyour question around, like, it
impacts everything. Not having aa a loving father who's settled
(09:40):
in his own life.
Right? So if I'm busy, like,playing roles that I'm not meant
to play. Right? I'll give you anexample. If I haven't severed
let's say, if I haven't reallychanged the dynamic of my
relationship with my mother, doyou think I'm gonna have a
healthy relationship with mywife when I get married one day?
(10:04):
Right? Because I'm gonna havethree people in that marriage if
I don't if if I don't if I haveto self initiate myself, which
is something I had to do. Like,I had to I had to sever you
know, there's there's talkabout, you know, what is that
initiation? And I had to do thatbecause there was no elders.
(10:26):
There was no elders in thespace.
And so most men in societyintuitively self initiate, but
they do it in harmful ways.Drugs and alcohol, right, or
just, hanging out with the wrongpeople. And that's how they
create the cut. That's how I didit too. Mhmm.
Timothy Bish (10:46):
It was incredibly destructive. It feels really
healing just to to say that tolet any person who and I know so
many of them. Right? That had togrow up too fast, too soon or
were responsible for things thatthey should not have been. Just
to say that that isn't what wassupposed to happen and it's okay
that that was a challenge, Ithink is the beginning of of
(11:08):
healing.
But I know then in yourcommunity, so much more work
comes into recognizing that andstepping consciously into our
power.
Amir Khaligi (11:17):
And we can't really consciously step into our
power until we begin to freefall into a relationship with
that aspect of divinity withinour hearts. And what I mean by
that is until then, everythingis predicated on what is
happening on the outside. Evendynamics, relationship dynamics
are, looking outside. Well, ifshe's or, you know, if if so and
(11:43):
so's emotional well-being'sokay, then I'm okay. Right?
Actually, you can be okay withwith with the world spinning
from your bank account going upand down, the house that is your
dream house could disappear andsomething new could come. So
part of the men's work really isabout initiating men on a path
(12:09):
towards that relationship deepwithin their hearts where the
clarity of dynamics come intoplay. Like, you can start seeing
this is not serving me. Thistype of relating to you is not
serving me. Or maybe you outgrowa dynamic.
Maybe it served at one point tobe in a trauma bonded, dynamic.
(12:32):
But as you begin to, we'll callit, evolve or self actualize,
you come to realize, I don'twant that. I don't want that
anymore. Right? So I thinkconsciousness starts to come
online in a new way as we that'swhy we, you know, we call it
(12:54):
men's work.
But at the end of the day, we'rereally becoming really clear
through the detachment of ourattachments, through deeper
listening to navigating,creating a life from our heart
where our soul kind of nudges usin the directions that we you
know, I don't know how esotericand woo woo you wanna go.
Timothy Bish (13:17):
We'll go
Amir Khaligi (13:17):
as deep as you want.
Eric Bomyea (13:18):
Bring on the woo. Bring the woo.
Amir Khaligi (13:21):
Bring in the woo. So I really believe each man
also you know, I mean, we aretalking about, you know, the
impact of what it means. When wetalk about father wound, we're
talking about men's work. Okay?When we talk about father wound,
we're talking about men whodidn't do the work.
And we we are talking about menthen who are picking up the
(13:43):
mantle to do the work. And whenyou pick up the mantle to do the
work that your father didn't,right, you will have to come to
terms with all the ways that youpotentially judged him, shamed
him, thought of him. Likebecause all of that keeps us at
(14:03):
bay from really feeling thefeelings that need to be felt as
part of the healing process aswell. Right?
Eric Bomyea (14:13):
One of the things that I'm hearing around a father
wound is that it's an unhealedor unacknowledged father wound
will or could potentially startto show up in a couple different
ways in a man's life.Codependency, people pleasing,
drugs and alcohol, soloinitiations, things like that.
(14:35):
And then there may come a timein a man's life that they're
like, okay, I've had enough. Andat that point, a little bit of
consciousness comes on of like,I have some healing that I want
to do. There are some issuesthat I want to address.
And then from there, what stepsdo I take? Like, I've started to
(14:55):
realize I've got some thingsthat I'm I'm wanting to work on.
I may not have a full diagnosisthat it is a father wound. So if
I'm in that position, if I'vestarted to identify there are
some of these things, like,where do I go? What is what's
the next step?
Amir Khaligi (15:11):
Well, here's the paradox and the dichotomy
because you're you're gonna needother men, and simultaneously,
it's other men you don't trust.
Eric Bomyea (15:24):
For anyone for anyone that's listening and not
watching, Tim and I both lookedat each other because, like,
that is exactly what you justsaid is the biggest reason why I
continued to do this work. Andand I think I've heard from Tim
as well, like like
Timothy Bish (15:39):
I started I went to men's work specifically
because I do I did not truststraight men. I was like, I do
not feel safe with straight men.I need to heal that. And so I
walked into a men's coachtraining. That's that's how I
came to to be in men's work.
Yeah. Yeah. So, yes, that thatfear and lack of trust is part
of my journey.
Amir Khaligi (15:59):
Yeah. And how much of that journey has, like like,
as you've moved into it, howmuch of that has been about also
your the freedom of your ownunderstanding and self judgments
about what it means to be a man?
Timothy Bish (16:16):
Yeah. If I understand you, I think I was
really holding on I'll justspeak for myself. I was really
holding on to these ideas ofwhat it meant to be a straight
man from the place I grew up,how I differed from that, the
ways in which that was wrong.And I think for a lot of really
valid reasons and decades of ofhaving it reinforced, was
(16:39):
holding on. As I started to getinto men's work, I was able to
start to soften my grip.
I mean, one of the greatestgifts, some of my closest
friends now are are straight menthat I met through men's work.
Where like a place where I wouldotherwise, you know, eight years
ago have felt not at ease. I nowI now have brothers. So the
(17:02):
transformation for me has beenincredible and has changed the
way that I move through theworld. I don't know if I just
answered your question, but Iwas able to release my old ideas
of what like, how I thought Iwas failing or at at being a
man.
Amir Khaligi (17:14):
Right. So it's interesting also because I think
I I mean, I'm very curious. I'mnot I'm not a gay man, so I
don't have the perspective. Butin my world, a man is a man is a
man. Like, I if anything, one ofthe disservice one of the
disservices that really I thinkwe are as a community beginning
(17:39):
to, like, reimagine and redefinefor what it means to be a
masculine being in the world.
You know, such disservice wentinto the subjugation and the
ridicule and the shameperpetuated on young men that
(17:59):
exemplified or amplified anyfeminine essence through their
body. It's it's such a loss.It's such a loss, and it
provides so much work that wehave to do in unwinding that.
Some of the most powerful menthat I know are incredibly
(18:21):
powerful masculine beings on oneend and incredible expressive
feminine beings on the other. Itis it is this capacity to know
the depth of your range and tobe able to work with that from
moment to moment that reallymakes me feel like, oh, this is
(18:44):
a trustworthy human being.
I don't trust anyone whosuppresses any aspect of
themselves or shames other.Right?
Eric Bomyea (18:54):
So that that tells like, that image of that that
kind of, like, healed orrealized man potentially could
be a goal of, like, trying toidentify, work with a father
wound. It's like trying to getus to that point that we can
trust our own masculinity, trustmasculine in others, as well as
(19:18):
owning all parts of ourselves,including our feminine.
Amir Khaligi (19:22):
Well, it becomes internalized misogyny. We don't
even know that we're doing it.Right? We bought into this
paradigm that we are unpacking,that we are unraveling. We're
like, you know what?
I don't buy that. I don't Idon't buy that anymore. Right?
And I for now I saw you, Tim,come into our community, and I
(19:48):
saw the shift. I saw, like, thisveil get removed over your head.
And we can't talk about what wedo at our initiations, but there
was a moment in during theinitiation process during the
MWI program that I literally sawit come across your face. You're
like, oh, I can be who I I canbe me. I'm accepted. I can be
(20:13):
me. And I think if we're talkingabout, like, father wounds, you
know, wounds perpetuated bypatriarchy or however you wanna
frame it, at the end of the day,unconsciousness, self being self
serving.
Like, all of these have playfear have created this paradigm
(20:38):
of masculinity that thisgeneration doesn't want. Right?
And in our community, whatyou'll see is men that are are
living a life in alignment withtheir hearts because they're not
they're not chasing bells andwhistles anymore, and they are
(20:59):
beginning to really come intotheir own. And and and part of
that equals all thatinternalized misogyny that we
that we that we've taken uponourselves. That's why when we
have, like, a feminineembodiment practice, there are
some men that just they have areally hard time being able to
go through all the layers ofshame and and and judgment that,
(21:22):
you know, that that they'reworking.
They're working towards beingable to move. There are some
guys that are completelyimmersed, and there are some
guys that are barely moving.Those guys that are barely
moving, they're working reallyhard. Mhmm.
Timothy Bish (21:34):
Right? I'm really glad that you brought that up
because it's a it's a factor inour queer community. I think
specifically for gay men. Wehave this you know, we've been
given a lot of programming aboutwhat a man should be, this old
thinking that you were justreferring to, what a man should
be, how we differ from it. Andso there is or has been a
(21:56):
movement to try to not be that.
And so, it's sort of verypolitically incorrect. This I
don't know if you've heard ofthis mask for mask. This idea
that as a gay man, I'm onlygonna hook up with or be
attracted to some other personwho fits this idea because we've
been handed that over and over.So, like, the the archetype of
(22:17):
the motorcycle guy, the the theconstruction worker, the police
officer, that's very, like,masculine idea. And if it's
anything femme, they're like, Idon't do I don't do femme.
Don't do this. I don't do that.And it feels like that is what
we're talking about, this oldidea. And then men's work has
for me allowed this thisauthenticity of full expression.
(22:40):
So that Mhmm.
So that the the the man canexpress in all kinds of ways and
that that is ultimately moretrustable.
Amir Khaligi (22:49):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I don't I don't
I don't, you know, I I believeevery man has a seed in his
heart that was planted that he'scome here to bring into
fruition. And along the way, hewill have to go through
(23:09):
healings, and and and that'spart of his evolution and
growth, right, and coming toterms with what that is for him
on this round. Right?
So on this round, the fatherwound was the one that I like,
when they were, like, handingout things to work on, they were
like, okay. Father wound whowants to take the massive father
(23:30):
wound and then start to workwith men later in his life, and
that's gonna become I would be
Eric Bomyea (23:35):
like, Order number 57. 50 7. I'll
Amir Khaligi (23:39):
take it. I'll take it. And on on the surface level,
it would it it looks pretty hardand devastating. Oh, my father
was a, you know, drug addict. Hewas he was a heroin user.
He did time. I mean, he like, hewas and and he put so much fear
into me about who he was that Ireally kept him at bay. I judged
(24:01):
him. I didn't wanna haveanything to do with him. And
even after he died, I didn'twanna have anything to do with
him.
You know? I didn't understandhim. I judged him, And it took a
long time for me to come toterms with the fact that these
(24:21):
these mechanisms that I put inplace to keep him at bay were
really around me not feeling thedeeper feelings that I was
avoiding to feel. Right? Thedevastation of what it feels
like not to have a father aroundwhen you're young.
The the anger around how fuckingcould you. You've missed
(24:44):
everything. You missed all ofit. You missed my grand you
missed your grandchildren. Ineeded you in these times of my
life.
Like, the anger, giving myselfthe permission to begin to feel
deeply into all the feels. Andwhen that started when I did
that, the judgments began todrop, and then I began to see
(25:07):
him and myself in that. I Istopped judging my my
patriarchal line, and, I startedto have an healing experience
over who I was in my placeamongst my people, you know,
until then. And, you know? Sofrom the wound to the healing,
(25:27):
you know, at the end of the day,on this path, it has to happen.
Timothy Bish (25:32):
One of the things you you just mentioned, which I
wanna highlight, that in men'swork, we often come into safe
containers where we can thenhave some of these messy or raw
experiences safely to take thataway. So what what I was hearing
you say was allowing yourself tofeel the feeling. Some of those
feelings were, probably impoliteor or rough or big or any number
(25:57):
of things. Right? And so men'swork is one one place where with
safety and consciousness andguidance and support, we can
engage in that process so thatwe can move forward, you know,
in the direction of ourauthenticity and our purpose
and, in service to the highestgood rather than not really
knowing how to work with thispower and then having it come
(26:19):
out sideways.
Eric Bomyea (26:20):
You
Amir Khaligi (26:20):
Look. This this power is energy. Okay? It knee
it's either flowing through usor we're or we're stifled and
blocked by it. Right?
So, like, for our community andand other men's groups, maybe
they're more talk talk related.People wanna talk their way
through it. In our community,we're somatic. We we believe in
(26:42):
the wisdom of the body. So oncea week, what do we do?
Like, hopefully, you're doing itfor more than once a week. But,
you know, you come to a spacewhere for seventy five to eighty
minutes, your attention goesinward, and you begin to tend
and be with yourself. You beginto rely on those practices to go
to crevices to explore and bewith and express and journey and
(27:09):
to understand yourself indifferent ways. I mean, that is
such a missing component insociety for men. Like, it's just
go go go go produce produceproduce produce.
Oh, you're not producing. Shameshame shame shame shame shame.
I'm sorry. It feels likesomebody's fucking using me like
(27:30):
a battery. Mhmm.
Yeah. And I don't want that.
Eric Bomyea (27:35):
Agreed. I first wanna thank you, Amir, for for
sharing your story and lettingus in on on the background of
your father and how thatimpacted you. And so I'm I'm
wrapping my head around thisthat if we have fathers who are
either physically or emotionallynot present in our lives, then
(27:56):
they are not modeling thefullness of the human experience
that a man can have. And so thenI may start to repress certain
parts of myself, or go throughthis life with certain
conditions or certain ways inwhich I can have things come out
(28:17):
sideways. And it's then throughthe work of bringing on a little
bit of consciousness to be like,oh, okay, I see that thing.
I wanna work towards that, and Iwanna bring more of myself, more
of my fullness here. And that tome is a big part of men's work.
Right? And starting to heal thatmisogyny, that internal
(28:41):
misogyny, that external misogynythat we had and connecting it
that misogyny and that way thatwe treat ourselves and each
other can be can stem from thefather wound, the lack of
presence either physically oremotionally of a man in our
lives that can help us to be inour fullness. Am I
(29:03):
understanding?
Am I, like, in the ballparkhere?
Amir Khaligi (29:06):
Absolutely. Listen. A man that is that is
settled in himself, a man thatis connected to his heart, a man
that is living a life that'spurpose driven. And what I mean
by that, he's he's in alignmentto, like, living in accordance
with what is meaningful to himfor the highest good of all that
that are around him. A man thatis living that life, his simple
(29:31):
presence is healing for a child.
His simple beingness around thefamily is healing. Do you
understand? So the more presenceand the more the the more I take
care of myself, the more othersare taken care of.
Eric Bomyea (29:48):
And to get to that point, part of the the healing
is is working with our fathers,whether they are here or not. So
can we talk a little bit about,like, the the the process of
beginning that healing?
Amir Khaligi (30:03):
Yeah. I I think the process starts when we stop
looking outwards for dopaminehits to deal with
uncomfortability and reallybecome willing to face the
deeper the deeper asks of what'sreally going on within.
(30:28):
Generally, that process is notdone alone. Generally, that
process is done either with amentor, with a group of other
men that have gone through thisand now can share with you how
to navigate these waters. Like,what is the fucking problem?
Like, I just know that I'mmiserable. I I I'm not
(30:51):
fulfilled. Right? I just like,somebody fucking help me.
Eric Bomyea (30:55):
Mhmm.
Amir Khaligi (30:56):
Right? So sometimes it needs to get to
that. Or I'm about to lose mypartner or my husband or wife.
And, like, people wake up likethere's a rattle. Like, there's
a rattle.
That's that's how most men cometo men's work. And then we're
like, okay. Great. There's theopening. We're gonna look in.
(31:19):
But the the the but but but ifit was like, nope. I know you
think it's that. I know youthink if you just had more money
or if so and so didn't say thator all these things that are
outside of you that are runningyou. They're running you. You
know what else is running you?
(31:40):
Limiting beliefs. You know whatelse is running you? Shadow
aspects of self. So listen. Whydon't we slow down, come into
this container, and we'll guideyou through a process where you
can have space and time fromother men who've gone through
(32:00):
it, and we'll show you how tolook inward.
We'll show you how to be with.We'll show you how to develop
your capacity to be withuncomfortability. We'll show you
how to arrest suffering butdeepen your capacity for holding
the evolution of pain. And whenI say it, all things that grow
(32:22):
include pain and and to relearnwhat that means, to redefine
that for ourselves. So all thishappens, hopefully, from men who
innately wanna give that toother men.
(32:42):
And why are you doing thispodcast? That very reason. Yeah.
That very reason. Right?
To bring hope to someone who iscompletely fucking lost that two
nights ago may was thinking ofchecking out. And the message
(33:03):
here is, hey, brother. Pause fora second. Come tell me about it.
Come hang out with us.
Just hang out with us. Don't doanything. Just hang out. Hang
out with us. Simply by beingaround other men who are
(33:24):
embodied, who are and alignedwith their hearts and their
path, There's healing just inbeing around that.
So who are you hanging out with?Who are you spending your time
with? What environment do youlive in? What does it promote?
(33:47):
You can have the best intentionto grow this flower, but if you
put the seedling in a dark roomand never water it, I'm sorry.
Timothy Bish (33:58):
Really glad that you said that because, I do feel
like in this world people want areally quick fix. Of course, I
want that too. I I would likeall my problems to be solved
like right away. But it it feelslike you're speaking to an
obviously an experience thatI've had personally, the
importance of coming back.Especially if we are in a place
(34:21):
in our lives or in the worldwhere this inundation of
distraction and other things.
So this coming back and so theimage I'm having now is this
sort of spiral. We keep comingback to the practice with, like,
a deepening and deepening anddeepening of understanding. Can
you speak a little bit to that,the importance of
Amir Khaligi (34:39):
that? Mhmm. Well, I think I think if you don't
latch your lasso into a parallelstructure that cultivates this
otherness, you're fucked. You'reyou're fucked because because
you're competing against thesociety that is a consumerism
(35:02):
society that just wants todevour everything that's
worthwhile and turn it into acommodity, and it'll use you and
abuse you. And you'll you'll gofurther and further away from
you.
So find a community of men thatyou feel comfortable hanging out
(35:24):
with and doing some of this workin whatever form it takes. Our
community has a certain flavor,and it's meant for certain
people. Some meant foreverybody. But if you're if if
you come into our space and youexperience our practices and
where we go and what it does andthe way we do it and the way we
(35:44):
hold it, you know, we come fromdifferent traditions that we you
know, it may not be everybody'scup of tea. But for those that
it is, that's your space.
Now you're in a parallelstructure where everybody has a
culture of, like, living thisway, and you are going to have
an ecosystem that you can comeback to no matter how how far it
(36:08):
takes you, and then you comeback. Takes you and it comes
back. You know, there's ebb andflow in here. We are living in
in this. We are living in Rome,and Rome must receive its taxes.
I get it. But, you know, a niceJewish carpenter, and I'm not
religious at all. Like, you knowme. I'm not religious at all. He
said, you know, be in thisworld, but not of it.
(36:29):
You know, I think what he'stalking about is like, okay. I I
know where to go to keep thisother essence of me alive while
I come into my clarity, while Icome into my healing, while I
come into my self actualizationand take my rightful place in
what I'm called to do.
Timothy Bish (36:50):
I'm so glad you're bringing this up because, you
know, the the power in thiscommunity, of course, it is
ideal when we can come togetherand be in the same share the
same physical space. But wedon't need that to feel our
brotherhood. And so I just justa few days ago had a call with,
a man. He was in my little podin my coach training in 2020.
(37:12):
And we hadn't connected in along time.
And my tank was so full afterninety minutes of a Zoom
conversation with this man. Thisman who I've met in person two
times. I helped him and his wifemove their apartment. And the
power. I'm like, oh my tank isfull because I trust this person
and we are far apart.
(37:32):
So if you're listening, that'swhy we're doing this podcast and
why you know, Amir you have youronline circle every Wednesday
night. These these are powerful,and they can provide you with
this thing even if you can'tnecessarily be in the same room
with someone. You can still havethe benefit of this feeling
held, safe, being guided, andthis community of conscious
(37:57):
support through this process. Itis really, really nourishing. So
anyone listening right now, ifyou don't have a circle like we
have in Provincetown that youcan go to in person, there are
still places you can go.
There are lots of differentresources available if you are
wanting this sort of support andengagement. And we all come to
these spaces with differentthings that we're working on,
(38:20):
right? For some
Eric Bomyea (38:21):
of us, it may be a father wound. For others, it may
be something else. But when wecome together and we are
witnessing each other as men andwitnessing other men in their
expression and in theirvulnerability, it it like gives
this permission that like, oh, Ican start to bring a little bit
(38:42):
more of myself as well. And indoing that, there's so much
healing that starts to happen.And I just think about my time
on retreat with the two of you.
Right? Like I felt comfortable,but there was still a part of me
that was like a little guarded.And it took a big experience for
me to really start to like, oh,I'm working with some trust
(39:06):
issues here. And I need toreally admit that and be
vulnerable and admit that. Andthen through that, being able to
work with other men and seeother men and have other men see
me helped me to start to healthat part of myself so that now
I can go through the world alittle bit more conscious, a
(39:28):
little bit more aware, and alittle bit more grounded in my
fullness to hopefully be able tooffer that to others.
Right? And kind of thisgenerational thing. Like, I had
some shit happen to me. I'm notgoing to blame anymore. I'm
going to say it happened.
I'm working on it so that I cankind of, like, then put forth
(39:51):
new energy out into the world.
Amir Khaligi (39:55):
Yeah. What I what I wanna just kinda tap like,
just write on that statement.What I wanna say is, like,
you're actually not responsiblefor creating the healing. K?
You're not trust me.
You're not doing you're notdoing the healing. Cut cut your
own cut your own hand and sayheal. You're not doing the
(40:20):
healing. What you're responsiblefor is putting yourself in the
optimum environment for healing.
Timothy Bish (40:30):
My my yoga mentor, Narayani, would always say
create the causes for what youwanna see in the world.
Amir Khaligi (40:35):
Mhmm.
Timothy Bish (40:36):
That I'd like, you know, create the causes, create
the environment into which youlike, the thing you want grows.
I feel like that's sort of whatwhat you're saying too. Find
this environment. Create thespace where healing can exist.
Amir Khaligi (40:49):
Like Eric said, he he was feeling safe enough to
kind of bring his shoulders downand start to let more of life
start to come in. Like, life ismeant to be experienced in a
surrendered state, not in aperpetual state of vigilance.
Timothy Bish (41:13):
Oh, I'm clocked. Clocked. Let's go back in time
thirty years and say that to me,please.
Amir Khaligi (41:22):
So when you when you when you come into a space
where the culture is there, thenit's up to you on when the
flower blooms. And this issomething I I really just kind
of dislike in the polarityteachings is this kind of
unconscious shaming of of womenand their closures. In in
(41:49):
polarity teachings, oh, you'rethere's something wrong with you
if you have a closure. I'msorry. I'm pretty sure the
closure is there for a purpose.
And you have the dignity ofbeing closed as long as you
want. A flower blooms when theenvironment is right for it to
(42:13):
bloom. No flower ever fuckingbloomed because you shamed or
yelled at it. Yeah. Right?
So and I know that's a differentparadigm. It's a different
world. It's it's it's, you know,men and women trying to create
polarity, and I get that. It's aseparate issue. But I I'm what
I'm talking about is the wisdomof the body's closure until it
(42:38):
feels ready.
Like Eric was saying, you knowwhat? It took me a couple days,
and then I I started takingdeeper breaths. And when I when
you start taking deeper breaths,what do you think you're letting
well, you're letting go on theexhale. You're opening on the
exhale. You're more receptive tobe impacted by life.
Right? And I think a lot of menthat have father wounds are so
(43:02):
contracted because they've hadto take on so much at a young
age that they don't know how tolet go. They don't know how to
trust. What am I trusting into?Right?
What you're trusting into is afree fall relationship to
something magical in your heartthat will be the comfort, the
(43:22):
guidance, the heat, the the musefor how you live your life. And
I think true men's work shouldbe driving men to that
relationship.
Timothy Bish (43:34):
So I'm really glad that you brought that up because
I have I'm curious to hear fromyou. Men come into your space
and they see you. I'm about toshower you with appreciation.
You are one of, my favoritepeople and one of the first
straight men that I felt socomfortable and and could trust
with my whole self. And so mencome into your space, trying to
(43:59):
create the causes for thehealing that they're wanting and
being guided by these practices.
I'd love for you to chat alittle bit about men who are
opening and opening, but thenmeet a contraction again,
whether, you know, and andproject that onto you. I mean, I
definitely I've I've observedthis moment where you've been
(44:20):
doing the thing and then onething kind of goes wrong and
suddenly it's like, ah, I knewit. Like, you know. And can you
talk about that? Because I feellike most people going through
this process are going to have amoment like that.
Maybe not with a particularperson, but that it's gonna come
up. Can you can you speak tothat a bit?
Amir Khaligi (44:39):
Yeah. What you're what you're what you're
referencing is transference.Okay? It's a union term where,
you know, the stuff that you'redealing with needs to be put on
somebody else because it's toohard to be with. Okay?
And whenever you're in aleadership position and, you
(45:00):
know, you're leading circles andthe more the deeper you go with
the opening of people, someprojections will come your way.
And the way I've had to learn towork with that is, a, to not
(45:20):
take it personally, and, b, givethem the dignity of their their
travels. If if if they need totake their father wounding
because I'm naturally in a in ain a kind of in a patriarchal
(45:41):
position holding this communityfrom birthing it to what I how
I, you know you know, run, youknow, programs. And just
naturally, I'm in a leadershipposition, and you'll you'll and
it's very similar to the dynamicof the father or the mother.
Right?
So it's inevitable that somepeople that will need to they
(46:03):
they won't know how to work withthat angst and the the the depth
of that pain, we'll say. Andit'll be easier to communicate
that through transference or tryto project that. And I I don't
pick it up. It's like playingtug of war. There's no tug of
war if not both people arepulling.
(46:23):
If there's only tug of war whenthere's two people pulling. So
when I see the rope come my way,I don't pick it up. If somebody
wants to have a conversationwith me, I'll be more than happy
to clean or clear the space ifthey need to express something.
And if it's all, like, vitriolicprojections, I'm not gonna give
(46:44):
that too much time. I'll knowpretty quickly.
But if I sense that they'rereally working with this piece
and there's some consciousnessaround the fact that they are,
like it's really triggered thembecause of their past history
and they, you know, they careenough to come to me, then we
(47:04):
have an opportunity for healing.Because I have an opportunity to
show up in a different way thanthey're used to, and they have
an opportunity to be back inthat space of that vulnerability
and express themselves maybebefore they got shut down and
shamed. But with this couragenow, like, you know so I found
myself many a times playing thatlet's rewrite this script
(47:29):
together moment. Because I cantell. I can I can feel like
their work they're, like, halftriggered, they're half
projecting, but they're trying?
And I can get to the core ofwhat the thing is, and then
hopefully that becomes a healingmoment.
Eric Bomyea (47:42):
So to translate, father transference aka
rejecting daddy issues? Yeah.Pretty much. Is that what we're
talking about? Okay.
Amir Khaligi (47:51):
Yeah. That's what we're talking about.
Timothy Bish (47:52):
You wanted to say that phrase this I've been
Eric Bomyea (47:55):
wait I've been waiting for the opportune
moment, and that was
Amir Khaligi (47:57):
You say daddy issues?
Eric Bomyea (47:58):
Just say
Amir Khaligi (47:58):
daddy issues. Daddy issues.
Eric Bomyea (48:01):
But, yeah, so it's it's father transference. So I'm
I'm in this space. I've startedto work on myself, and I'm,
like, I'm in a place of ofopenness, openness, openness.
And then all of a sudden, atrigger happens. I get a
closure, and I'm, projecting mydaddy issues onto you.
And so through a healthyconversation and addressing it
and acknowledging it, then thereare then steps that can be
(48:24):
taken. And I'm just gonna speakabout a recent example that
happened with you, with me goingthrough shadow work, was that I
was able to, in that that deepexperience, actually come out
the other side becoming my ownfather. Like Mhmm. Fathering
myself and tending to myself. Sothat is one way in which you can
(48:47):
guide men to to to working withthat so that they don't project
it onto you and onto otherpeople.
Are there other ways that thatmen can can work with that part?
Amir Khaligi (48:57):
Mhmm. It's a great question. And I'll start by
saying, you know, part of thefather wound is is trusting men
again. Right? So or especiallymen in leadership positions.
Right? Men in general that youknow? So first and foremost, I
would say, the first stage is tolearn how to be a safe container
(49:21):
for yourself. To begin to beginto be a safe container for
yourself, like, even though youmay be in a deep practice, there
is a part of you that's like,okay. I got me.
Mhmm. Like, I I I I can I can bewith this? I can allow this
feeling to go deeper. I canallow the heartbreak to keep
going. A part of me's got this.
(49:42):
Right? For me, when it came to,like, one of the biggest healing
experiences of my adult life waswith my was around my father.
And I was I was in a ceremony,and I I started to get those
feelings. I started to likelike, the tender child, like,
(50:06):
ones that you were experiencing.I I was they were coming in big,
and I immediately was like, oh,wait.
I know how to do this. I teachthis. I I I started to, like,
create that space for myself tostart having my own feelings,
really starting to feel them.And then I could feel also,
like, oh, fuck. I would reallylove if I could have this
(50:29):
experience with my father.
And then I got you know? Andthen, like and then the sadness,
like, all my stuff around himstarted to come up now. And I
was like, I don't know if I canhold this. Right? And I was in
ceremony, and I kid you not.
As soon as I started to tuneinto the part of my feelings
(50:50):
around him, I could feel hispresence. I could feel his
presence. And the more and moreI allowed myself to feel those
feelings, what I was doing wasactually taking my own hands off
of being the safe container andtrusting him again that he in
this highest he's passed awaysubsequently twenty years. Then
(51:12):
I started to really give myselfpermission to fully feel those
feelings around the loss of nothaving him in my life in the way
I needed it. And, subsequently,once all those feelings are
fully owned and expressed,that's part of, like, the
masculine issue is if you readking, warrior, magician, lover,
(51:33):
men move into shadow states isbecause, one, they're not in
alignment to a greater calling,and two, it's because they're
not expressing energies.
They're stat think shit's shutoff, right, or it's coming
outside. And once I was able toreally express and feel those
feelings in in the in the depthsof where they were, that's
(51:54):
really when I started toexperience a different profound
healing with him and see himdifferently, really see myself
and my my my patriarchal linedifferently. I was like, yeah.
You know what? All this judgmentabout, oh, they're tattooed up
and, like, they're streethustlers.
(52:16):
Like, I'm like, wait a minute.Fucking covered in tattoos. I'm
like, I'm I'm one of I I I amone of them. Like, know, I
stopped I stopped judging us. Istopped having to be the good
son, the good father, the goodlike, even that is shadow.
Shadow doesn't always have to bethis, like, dark, aggressive,
(52:38):
violent, suppressed anger.Sometimes it's good boy. I'm
just gonna be the best father.I'm just gonna be the best
father in the world because myfather wasn't in my life, so
I'll be the best. No.
I don't mean I mean, number onefather on the planet. That's
shadow. Because what happenswhen my eldest daughter doesn't
(52:59):
wanna have anything to do withme and judges me? I'm
devastated. But if I wasn't runon shadow, I would be like, you
know, I know who I am.
I know what I've done.
Timothy Bish (53:10):
So I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit
about I feel like you're, in thezone now, about forgiveness. So
my my yoga teacher, Sharon Gfrom Jeeva Mukti Yoga, often
said, you know, everyone's doingthe best they can at any given
moment. And so when we engage inthis work, it feels like we have
(53:30):
to allow ourselves the fullbreadth of our emotional
experience, but then alsorecognizing, you know, were our
fathers or our grandfathers orour uncles or whomever modeled
these tools, modeled these waysof being. And so when we do the
work, how important isforgiveness and that perspective
(53:51):
in how we move forward throughour process?
Amir Khaligi (53:55):
Forgiveness really opens the channels of life force
to flow again. Right? We're in astate of openness. We're in a
state of receptivity when wehave fully forgiven. We are
reengaging with life again.
Any contractions in the body, wewe need to be aware of them.
(54:16):
Right? And if it's trauma, weneed to tend. Like, it requires
our attention. But in a in aperfect state, we are in a
complete surrendered open state.
Right? There's no tigers comingto hunt, like, get us. We don't
like, that primal aspect of selfis incredibly important as a as
a as a way to tap into power,but the vigilance and the contr
(54:40):
like, constantly being overlyworried, like, then we know
there's something off. So whatforgiveness really does, it it
says, I'm a yes to life again.I'm a yes to relationships
again.
And just because I forgive youdoesn't mean I have to go back
into relationship with you. ButI am going to be open to the
next person I'm in relationshipwith. I have to forgive you
(55:04):
completely if I want to have ifI wanna launch, like, in a clean
slate with somebody else. Thedepth of my intimacy is
predicated on how many, like, exrelationships I have completely
healed and, like like,completely honored and, like,
felt complete with.
Timothy Bish (55:24):
I'm hearing forgiveness as a radical act of
self care, having much more todo with you and how you show up
moving forward than it doesnecessarily with any particular
circumstance or or individual.Am I hearing you right?
Amir Khaligi (55:38):
Yeah. I mean, think about it. In our in our
MWI program, three and a halfmonths, we talk about the the
temple body. We talk about thetemple body. We talk about how
we leak energy.
We leak energy. And when we leakenergy, we can't quite step into
that version of ourselves thatwe are aspiring to to become.
There's a lot of moving partshere from forgiveness to
(56:00):
limiting beliefs to integrityissues to, unfulfilled
reconciliations to the all thedamage we've done into the world
that we need to come intobalance with, you know, low
vibrating traits that we have toreally come to terms with within
ourselves. I mean, this is agrowth process. This is a
journey of self actualization.
(56:22):
But at the end of the day, weare returning to a state of
full, you know, reverence andawe for life. Right? Like, life
was meant to be lived inreverence and awe. It wasn't
meant yes. There's always been,like, wars and things we could
(56:45):
focus on, but in its essence inits essence, I mean, look
outside.
I'm looking outside of my tree.It's got hundreds of oranges,
like, pouring out of it. It itthe the tree is not giving us
plastic bags. It's not giving usrubber shoes. It's giving us
it's giving us fruit.
So it is in the essence of oflife force essence is love. It
(57:10):
is that's why we call hermother, mother earth. She's
constantly giving, right, theessence that runs through her.
So I think part of men's work,not part, I think a big part of
men's work is is re re returningto that wholeness of self. Free
from all the fears and and allthe noise and free from the the
(57:32):
pain of recreating events in ourlives that keep, like,
repeating.
Like and really becoming thecurators of the life that we
want to paint and create andlive. Like, you can have that.
You can have that. You don'thave to settle. You can have you
(57:54):
can have what your heartdesires.
I really, really believe that.
Eric Bomyea (58:02):
Really deeply appreciative of being able to to
be in the presence of you twomen and have had the opportunity
to learn so much and to be heldas I've I've been in the
environment to be able to havehealing happen. And I'm just
(58:23):
deeply appreciative and deeplyin awe of of the message that
that just came through with thatthat bit. So this conversation
could go on for hours. And I dobelieve that in many ways, it
will continue for a lifetime inmy heart, in our hearts, and in
the hearts of everyone listeningright now. And so, Amir, as we
(58:43):
close, what's one thing that youwould offer to a man who feels
the ache of this wound and isready to begin?
Amir Khaligi (58:52):
Yeah. I just wanna I just wanna encourage you to
avail yourself to to men thatsee you, that can empathize with
you, that have the capacity tobe with you as you are. And I
want you to know that as youbegin to tend to this wound,
(59:15):
right beneath the wound, thereis a pot of gold. And that pot
of gold, when you claim it, willbecome the medicine that you
will serve, that you will payback in return for the healing,
for the empowerment, for thefreedom that you will experience
in facing aspects of yourselfthat you've been avoiding and
(59:39):
facing. So I just want you toknow that the best is yet to
come.
Eric Bomyea (59:46):
Mhmm. With that, I feel very Tim, how do you feel?
Timothy Bish (59:51):
I just before we finish this episode, I just have
to say I am a strong believer insynchronicity and cocreating our
reality. And it was a littleover four years ago that I
happened onto Instagram to seean Instagram interview, which is
happening a lot right afterpandemic, with a man named Amir
(01:00:14):
talking about one of the fourmasculine archetypes. And it it
is not surprising to me at allthat you have found your way
into my life. And it is in largepart because of you and your
community that I haveexperienced the changes and the
(01:00:35):
growth that I have. I feelunbelievably proud of so many of
the things that I've created andyou are a huge part of this.
You know, you you say put astake in the ground, like, so to
have you now on this podcast,which is an extension of the
circles, which are an extensionof our time together and your
(01:00:59):
teachings, just feels sobeautiful and magical. So I just
need to take this moment ofdeep, deep appreciation and
gratitude. Again, I'vereferenced my teacher, Sharon
Gannon. She said that what weshould say to our teachers, I
will say to you now, thank you.Please keep teaching me.
Please stay in my life. I loveyou.
Amir Khaligi (01:01:21):
Oh my god. I love you both so much. I love you,
and I'm so proud of thisincredible podcast that you've
that you've birthed. And I Ijust know it's reaching the
hearts and ears of, you know,some men that desperately
desperately need a new way ofbeing and living in the world.
(01:01:45):
And you two are taking yourrightful place, and that makes
me incredibly proud.
I love you both.
Timothy Bish (01:01:52):
I feel complete. I love
Eric Bomyea (01:01:53):
you too. And question to you, Amir. Are you
complete?
Amir Khaligi (01:01:57):
I am complete. Tim, will
Eric Bomyea (01:02:00):
you take us out, please?
Timothy Bish (01:02:01):
I will. Let's close our eyes. And just for one
more moment, allow ourselves toswim in these ideas, these
shared sacred time together, anyawarenesses, insights,
understandings that may havecome. And as we leave this
circle, I wish us all safety,community, brotherhood, and
(01:02:24):
love. In this moment, I releasethe archetypes and the spirits.
And with these words, ourcontainer is open but not
broken. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. No.
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