February 27, 2025 • 54 mins
In this episode of The Circle Podcast, we sit down with Soma Miller, founder of The Essential Man, to explore how unresolved wounds shape our lives and how men’s work, brotherhood, and embodiment practices help us step into maturity, integrity, and purpose.
Soma shares his personal journey into men’s work, influenced by mentors like Francis Weller and Malidoma Somé, and discusses the importance of rites of passage, emotional maturity, and healing the wounds of masculinity. We dive into why many men—both queer and straight—struggle to trust other men, the role of nature and the sacred in personal transformation, and how safe, structured spaces allow men to reclaim their full selves.
Through raw and insightful conversation, we uncover:
- The difference between the wounded boy and the conscious man
- Why modern initiations are crucial for personal and relational growth
- How men’s work helps break cycles of shame, fear, and isolation
- The power of vulnerability and trust in building deeper connections
Join us as we unpack what it truly means to become a whole, embodied man—not by abandoning our wounds but by integrating them with presence, courage, and community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Bomyea (00:05):
Welcome back to the circle. Today, we're joined by
Soma Miller, founder of theEssential Man, to explore how
unresolved wounds shape ourlives and how men's work,
brotherhood, and embodimentpractices can help us step into
maturity, integrity, andpurpose. Tim, Soma, are you
ready to go all in? I'm ready.
Soma Miller (00:22):
Ready.
Eric Bomyea (00:23):
Let's do this then. So, Soma, I'm so glad you could
join us here today. Could youshare a little bit about your
journey? What led you to men'swork and the creation of the
essential man? And how did yourown experiences shape the work
that you do today?
Soma Miller (00:36):
Yeah. So it's been been quite a long journey
between, you know, the myintroduction to men's work. I
got into this work in my earlytwenties. I, was living in
Southern California, was kind ofinspired by this lecture
(00:59):
presentation type of thing Iwent to about a man talking
about rites of passage work.And, yeah, I just felt this kind
of something awaken in me, like,kind of a hunger or a calling to
understand what it means to be aman.
And I I don't know where eventhat came from. Right? That that
(01:19):
whole, like, longing, but itspoke to me. And, soon after
that, it was kind of like aseries of serendipitous things
that led me to finding, ateacher or, like, a mentor that
was leading a group of menthrough a a year long rite of
(01:43):
passage experience. His name wasFrancis Weller.
You know, since leading, anumber of different, you know,
groups such as mine through thatwork, he's done a lot of, really
powerful writing and and,exploration around grief. That's
kinda his his primary focus.But, yeah, it was, you know, the
(02:08):
the the work that we did, it wasone of his teachers and the kind
of the lineage that he camethrough, was, a teacher by the
name of Maladoma Somay, who'skind of like a indigenous elder
shaman who came from Africa and,brought some of those more
(02:29):
traditional rites of passage.And so, you know, Francis's work
was, like, kind of an adaptationof of that that, you know, was a
bit more designed to fit, youknow, modernity and and our
modern cultural conditioning.But it was very still much
(02:51):
rooted in, how can we, in a way,reclaim our relationship to to
nature and the sacred.
Timothy Bish (03:03):
You you mentioned you mentioned in that, wanting
to understand better, what itmeant to be a man, and I'm
curious if, divinity andconnection to nature are two
primary components from yourview of what it means to be an
authentic man today?
Soma Miller (03:19):
Yeah. I mean, it's a good question. You know, I for
me, like, I I tend to lean awayfrom any kind of blanket
ideologies of, like, you know,this is how it should be,
because I think it's really upto each man to discover that for
himself. It's been very much apart of my life, and, yeah, it's
(03:43):
certainly in my value system toadvocate for the, you know, of
course, like, the relationshipto to nature, which is, you
know, who we are fundamentally.But, you know, the way that we
live in our modern lives isquite disconnected.
And and yeah. So to me, like,there is a truth in that that I
(04:09):
live as a principal and and tryto integrate into my work,
without being too moralisticabout it. But, yeah, I think,
you know, how how we treatnature, our relationship to
nature, is really a keycomponent that I think is
missing from a lot of men'slives, because we are you know,
(04:34):
we we've kind of beenconditioned and indoctrinated in
this kind of command and conquerand control version of
masculinity that has, you know,created a certain paradigm in
our consciousness. Right? And Ithink that shows up in how we we
relate on all different levels.
(04:56):
Right? So yes. And then as wellas, like, the the sacred or the
divine. Right? There's it's oneof those things that, you know,
a lot of people have anexperience of.
It's hard to define what thatis. It's more of a feeling. It's
more of a possibility, more of amystery. And, again, I think I
(05:18):
think those things are kind ofintertwined. Right?
Like, in some cosmologies ofthought. Right? Like, the nature
and that, you know, mysterious,un ineffable, unfathomable
aspect of existence is actuallymore of, like, the feminine.
(05:39):
Right? The the the divinefeminine.
And, you know, in our kind ofpatriarchal worldview, we've cut
this kind of very, like,masculine ideal of God or the
divine. But that's that's notactually really what resonates
for me. It's actually more the,you know, the divine feminine.
(06:00):
It's like, it's that part of usthat, you know, we can't really
conquer. We can't ever fullyunderstand, and that's a good
thing.
Right? It kinda puts us in thisplace of humility, which creates
a kind of openness, and I thinkthat's a a very powerful way to
(06:20):
operate.
Eric Bomyea (06:21):
Yeah. I resonate with that. And something that's
that's striking me right now isyour your comfortability level
with with these themes and thesetopics. And so I'm curious if
you could take us back to beforeyour rite of passage and talk to
me a little bit about, like,your youth and how, your did you
have a connection to nature andthe divine early on, or was it
(06:42):
something that you discoveredthrough this rite of passage
that you went on?
Soma Miller (06:44):
Yeah. It's a good question. I mean, I, you know, I
think I'm kind of a a uniquebeing in a certain sense and
that I and I grew up in ahousehold that was very, like,
creative, artistic, progressivethinking. And and so I think
(07:06):
that certainly had an influence,on me. And I would say my
relationship with nature ispretty inherent into my being.
You know, I came online prettyearly in my life, but I just
felt drawn to, like, gardeningand just being outside and
(07:28):
creating. And, however, youknow, there were certain events
in, you know, in early childhoodand then, my teenage years that
opened me up more. One of thosebeing working with psychedelics,
as a teenager, and it just kindaturned me on to that kind of
(07:53):
vastness. Right? The theawareness of the
interconnectedness of things,and and there was a kind of
sense making that opened up inme and a of a contrasting with,
like, you know, this awarenessof, like, a connection to, like,
(08:16):
this is how we're meant to liveand and sort of contrasting that
with this is kind of how we'reliving as a culture, and
something just felt kinda off tome.
You know? And yeah. So thosethose were kinda built into my
path. And, you know, I think theinitiation for me, what that
(08:41):
brought online you know, I thinkI was already, like, a deep
introspective, creative, kindamystical person, pretty early on
as teenager. But, you know, thatthat rite of passage experience
for me was really, about findinga sense of belonging in
(09:03):
community, realizing that I'mnot here to, like, process my
emotions alone, that I needspaces where I can, like, bring
my full self, particularly withmen.
And it was also about learningto feel safe with men, you know,
(09:28):
because I think even though Igrew up in a household that was
forward thinking andprogressive, there was also with
that came a certain, projectionof, you know, the story that a
lot of us hear these days. Like,men are bad. Men are the
(09:48):
problem. Right? My mom had a lotof wounding with the masculine
with her father.
Right? And so in a way, like,I'm grateful that I grew up in
that environment, but I was alittle bit, like, feminized.
Right? Like, I wasn't my mom wasnot comfortable with masculine
energy. And so, you know, ithelped me to really develop my,
(10:09):
you know, feminine creativeside, but, I think it really
took being around other men, ina sacred container that allowed
me to to feel like, oh, yeah.
I I fucking love men. Like, menare amazing. Yeah.
Timothy Bish (10:31):
So I'm curious about, like, the rite of
passage, especially since, we'rethinking about men's work, and
specifically for queer men. Ibelieve a lot of queer men that
I know have had their own sortof rites of passage, like having
to leave home, having to findoften chosen family and and and
new things. And so I'm curiousbecause my experience of those
(10:53):
are often that they're just sortof brushed upon the person. They
don't exist in a safe containeror or with, with, like, the
safety that you mentioned. Socould you talk a little bit
about how you how or why youthink men can really benefit
from the safety of a containerand in a in that right of
passage, like, for all men?
Soma Miller (11:14):
Yeah. Well, you know, the I think because
collectively, we have, formillennia, gone through these
experiences. It's kind of, like,in our DNA. Right? Like, men
used to be initiated.
(11:35):
And and so on some level, youknow, I think part of the the
psyche or the soul looks forthat. And I think we we end up,
in a way creating those rites ofpassages unconsciously and
(11:55):
maybe, like, harmful ordestructive ways because we're
unconsciously looking for thatstructure to help us to really
emotionally mature is reallywhat I think the work is. You
know? It's it's really our workas men is, like, how do we
emotionally mature? How do wegrow up?
(12:18):
And, you know, I think the theboy in all of us, right, is is
looking to find, you know, anarchetype that can can help us
be an expression of our maturemasculine. And, if we don't have
those kind of containers, right,where it's modeled, right, it's
(12:40):
transmitted, it's sort of, youknow, what I found in in men's
spaces, like, there is aconsciousness that emerges when
men get together that is, youknow, as a whole, more developed
than, like, an individual mantrying to, like, up level his
(13:03):
life. Right? Like, we try to doin personal development work.
Right?
There's, like, something thatcomes alive and online that
happens when when men mergetogether because there's just
more of a field of awareness.And and so I don't really think
like, there's a lot of peoplethat try to self initiate.
(13:23):
Right? And I just don't thinkit's really effective because we
need it's like, you know,sitting in a room of, like,
mirrors where we can see theback of our body and, like, our
insides and, you know, all theseparts that we we can't really
see alone. Right?
We always are gonna have blindspots. And so, yeah, I think
(13:46):
there's there's something thathappens in that kind of
container where our stuff comesto the surface. Right? It gets
amplified. It gets activated.
The good and the bad. Right? Allthe all the stuff, the shadows,
even our our beauty and ourgreatness. And, you know, it's
(14:07):
it's hard to see all of it. It'shard to see even the good parts
of ourselves.
And I really think that, maybemodern initiations are are a bit
different than they needed to bein the past. I think men deal
with so much shame and selfdeprecation that, you know, we
(14:32):
need safe spaces for men to comeand see who they really are.
Eric Bomyea (14:37):
Absolutely. The the the wounds from childhood really
and can do a number on onpeople, and I'll speak from my
own experience of, you know,like, the the wounds that I
experienced early on caused meto grow up very quickly and
start to put on this facade,this this armor that, like, I'm
(15:00):
gonna be a man at the age ofsix. Right? And, like like, did
not have the chance to fully bea boy. And it hasn't been until
recently of my deeper dive intomen's work and going on retreat
and being with men that I'veactually started to feel the the
safety and comfort to, likelike, let that boy out a little
(15:22):
bit more and to allow, like yousaid, this this almost hall of
mirrors to reflect back at me,the the wounds that I'm running
from or that I'm afraid of andalso the beauty that is inside
of me as well.
And so just hearing you talkabout that, like, I resonate
with this this work so muchbecause of that. And of being
(15:43):
able to, like, start to, likelike, let my inner boy out and,
like, let him be held in thecompany of men and conscious men
and on my way to becoming aconscious man myself.
Soma Miller (15:56):
Yeah. It's beautiful. I I love hearing
that. And, yeah, I think thereis a lot of grief that we carry
as men because of that, youknow, for different reasons.
Right?
We we cut off parts of ourselvesin this way. And, you know, my
idea of emotional maturity isnot about getting rid of the boy
entirely. You know? It's moreabout looking at the strategies
(16:20):
that the boy used to survive,right, or the parts of himself
that he disconnected from sothat, like, that healthy,
integrated boy energy can kindacome online and and bring
playfulness and that kind of aweand wonder and curiosity about
life. Like, that's such animportant vital energy.
(16:40):
And, but he needs to feel safeto bring that. Yeah.
Timothy Bish (16:44):
You know, so I entered into men's work, shortly
after pandemic, and I I wentinto this, coaching program. You
know, everything had shut down.All my work was face to face.
And I opted to go into a men'scoaching program, men's wisdom
work run by Zapparaka. And I didit because I was like I thought
I'm afraid of straight men.
(17:05):
I have a a lifetime of proofthat they are dangerous, and I
need I felt like I needed to,walk into the environment to
heal to heal that. And, and inthat process since I've been in
men's work since then, soclearly I I see, like, what it's
capable of doing and why I wannabring it to my community. But
what I was fascinated by was, asa queer person, I had a mistrust
(17:29):
of men. And a lot of other queerpeople that I knew, also had
that mistrust. You just spokeabout, like, your mom and sort
of a cultural sort of, feelingaround men or masculinity.
But then I learned, as you justvoiced, other straight men were
also struggling with theirability to trust men. That was
(17:50):
the thing that I wasn'tinitially super clued into, but
it felt, when I got there, likea shared experience. I wonder if
you could talk a little bitabout the importance of healing
that. Like, how how we heal thatthat mistrust so that we can
have the experiences that we alljust mentioned.
Soma Miller (18:09):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to me, that's, like, one of the
most potent aspects of men'swork that I've experienced is
really where we can kinda takedown our guard. And and as men,
like, learn learn to share the,you know, those deeper
vulnerable truths. And, youknow, I know vulnerability is
(18:29):
kind of a buzzword, but it'sreally it's like, what are the
things that we're afraid toshare?
Right? What are the things thatjust feel, like, too taboo, too
out there? There's so much shamearound them. If we can lean into
those things, what I found isthat it just creates such a
resonance, and, like, a a trustbuilding that, you know, it
(18:52):
draws us closer to each other,and we feel not alone. I think
there's such a a loneliness inin the hearts of so many men
because we feel like, you know,we're the only ones with the
issue.
Right? We're the only onesstruggling. I'm fucked up like
(19:14):
nobody else is.
Timothy Bish (19:16):
Yeah.
Soma Miller (19:18):
But, you know, when you start to share, you realize,
oh, yeah. You got that too.Right? And and there's such a
almost like a relief thathappens. Right?
And it it I found that it when Iwitness men do that and when
I've done that myself, it, itcreates just such a freedom to
(19:41):
be beyond the circle itself.Right? Beyond being in the
group. Like, you realize thatyou're not so dark and twisted
or that your dark andtwistedness is okay. Right?
And and then, like, you know,it's just easier to relax into
life and and just to be moreyourself. And and then, like,
(20:05):
the gift of that is just moremore of all of you comes online.
Just more creativity, more senseof connection and belonging. So
there's just, like, a amultilayered way that it plays
out. And I think it really alsohelps in relationships.
(20:28):
Right? Because I think there's,you know, the scary, vulnerable
parts of ourselves that we thinkare are not okay to bring to our
really close intimaterelationships too. And it
creates this kind of pressure,right, when when our intimate
relationships are, like, theonly place that that's allowed
(20:49):
to come out. And I think whenthat happens, it just, you know,
creates these kind ofdistortions, where it's harder
for often for a partner to,like, be with that because we
haven't learned how to be withourselves. You know?
We haven't been reflected backthat we're okay there. Right?
(21:12):
Like, that's okay, that part ofus. And and so I think the just
to kinda emphasize when we sitin a circle and we can be held
by all these different beingsand bodies and minds and hearts,
the the weight of holdingourselves is not so dense and
(21:36):
heavy. And I think it thenbecomes easier for, like, a
closer intimate relationship tobe able to kinda metabolize what
we bring.
Timothy Bish (21:46):
Yeah. That's I think it's just so important.
When people ask me about men'swork, oftentimes, the question
is coming from the outside in.So, like, well, how does that
chi generator or how does that,like, journaling practice, like,
how does that, you know, relate?And I try to tell people it's
really about, like, this breadthof experience that allows us to
(22:09):
show up more fully inrelationship, in the way we
engage in our world.
Like, the more I know myself,the more I know my edges, the
more the more I know mycapacities and, you know, my
vulnerabilities, and the morethat I'm able to show it, the
more fully I can be with you.That's a hard thing, though, to,
like, put in an Instagram post.Right? You know? And so you're
Soma Miller (22:28):
like, no. Right. Yeah. It is hard. Yeah.
I mean, that's always been thehard part is, like, selling men
on the value of it. You know?It's it's such an experiential
thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Timothy Bish (22:39):
There's a man in, in a mere space, an embodied
masculine, a a man that I love.I've known him for quite a long
time. And I'm just on the lastretreat, we were having this
conversation, and I rememberwalking down from the hike
thinking, like, here's this manthat I I value deeply. We see
each other, like, occasionally,once every two years or you
(23:01):
know? But can call him wheneverI need and feel held and heard
by him, and he can do the samefor me.
Mhmm. And I'm like, whateverInstagram post would be needed
to, like, have that momentbecause you're like, well,
that's part of the goal rightthere. That that ability to be
like, I trust this dude. I cantell him every you know, it's,
(23:23):
the magic in it.
Eric Bomyea (23:23):
The magic of of being held and supported to to
know that you've got otherpeople in the world that can
relate to your experience, thatit's not just your burden to
carry by yourself. There's beena couple moments in my life
where I've been able to reallylet my body relax someplace, and
one of them was actually in amud bath in, Napa Valley. Right?
(23:48):
Like, I was in this like, I Ididn't know what I was signing
up for. I was like, that soundsfun.
So, like, me and an ex boyfriendand his brother, we just booked
this, like, spa experience wherewe, like, sat in mud, and then
they, like, threw more mud ontop of us. And the the beautiful
thing about a mud bath is that,like, the viscosity of it allows
your body to, like, fully besuspended. And, like, you get to
(24:13):
kind of, like, just let gobecause your body is being
supported even though you're notsinking to the bottom. Right?
You're just kinda suspended inthis beautiful earth.
And that feeling is is similarto the feeling that I get when
I'm with men who are also doingthe work. I feel like I'm in
this beautiful, warm, deliciousmud bath with them where I'm,
(24:34):
like, I can rest my body. Idon't have to be so on edge, and
I feel like I can actually justrest, like, be supported.
Timothy Bish (24:45):
Well, it feels like it might be true for all
men, certainly true for queermen, the sphere of abandonment.
I feel like one of the thingsthat men's work does, and I'd
love to hear your thoughts onthis, is it lets me know, oh, I
can have a conflict, and I'm notimmediately confronted with the
idea of, like, this is gonnaruin my relationship. You're
(25:06):
gonna stop being my friend.You're never gonna talk to me
again. We're gonna get into afight.
It you the the word
Eric Bomyea (25:12):
is reading the inside ticker of my mind right
now.
Soma Miller (25:16):
Well well, just if you know
Timothy Bish (25:17):
you have the tools and a conscious man in front of
you, like, oh, I can bring ahard thing to this person, and
it won't necessarily mean myabandonment or, like, the the
destruction of everything thatwe've built. And I think I think
specific like, a lot I thinkqueer men have that experience,
but I have to imagine straightmen have that too. This, and
then the tools allow a differentkind of relaxation. You're like,
(25:39):
oh, I can relax if I know thisisn't gonna crumble with a with
a light breeze.
Soma Miller (25:44):
Yeah. Yeah. %. I mean, I think I think that need
to belong is such aquintessential aspect of our
human experience, and, you know,it's very much survival based.
So when that feels threatened,which is kind of constant in our
modern, like, nuclear householdway of relating.
(26:05):
Right? We don't really have atribe where we got, like, 20
other people that love us,right, in in generally. So, you
know, we invest so much into,like, our one other. And, when
that feels threatened, right,that's when all of our survival
strategies tend to come online.So we end up being, like, less
(26:29):
authentic.
We withhold our truth. You know?We do, you know, do the things.
Right? We we distract ourselves.
We numb. We run away. We hide.So, yeah, I think I think
particularly when we can developmore of a kind of ecosystem of
(26:49):
belonging. Right?
That just goes beyond our ourintimate relationships. There's
just more sustainability, and Iand I really like to look at it
as an ecosystem. I mean, this isanother way that I bring in the
nature as a model to, how we'resupposed to live. Right? Like,
there's rather than, like,having parasitic relationships,
(27:12):
we're symbiotic with all thesekind of, you know,
interrelational support systems.
You know, a tree doesn't justrely on the dirt. You know? It
relies on, like, themicroorganisms. It relies on the
roots of other trees. So there'sall these kind of systems in
place to support us, and Ireally, you know, fundamentally
(27:36):
think that we as men haveforgotten that have forgotten
that we belong to somethingbigger.
And it it isn't just about ourhuman to human relationships
either. Right? It's also aboutour relationship to the
universe, you know, to thesacred mystery, to the natural
world. Like, we can get so muchsupport and sustenance from just
(27:56):
being outside. Yeah.
Timothy Bish (27:59):
I'm, I'm interested. As you were talking,
I'm thinking about this, like,symbiotic nature and and how we
kinda moved away from it andthis idea of this lone wolf,
like, strong guy. And I thinkpartly that became enticing
because it felt sexy or cool.And then I the the question that
sort of popped up is, like,well, how do we make, how do we
(28:20):
make this other, like, thisother possible expression that
maybe a more authentic,expression of our masculinity
also sexy? One that, like, onethat, like, runs the gamut.
I mean, is the movie just toolong? Does it need, like do you
know what I mean? Like, becauseI like, oh, we all we all wanna
be John Wayne or the Marlboroman or this, like, this guy
who's always strong and neverneeds help and kind of always
(28:42):
wins. But what you're kindatalking about is, oh, this this
ability to ebb and flow wheresometimes I am the strong the
strength of the trunk. SometimesI'm relying on other trees or
the fungi or whatever.
You're like, you know so I'mcurious if you have any ideas
about, like, that.
Soma Miller (28:59):
Yeah. How how to make, interrelational
masculinity sexy. That is thequestion. I love it. It's a good
question.
And, you know, it's I'm I'mcurious because I, you know, I
don't know how much of this Imean, it sounds like it's not
that much different from, like,you know, heteronormative
programming and, you know, queerbased promo programming. I don't
(29:21):
really know that, you know, howit impacts differently. Right?
Because I think I think there'sa lot of women that say they
want more of a man'svulnerability. Right?
But they're also, like, stilllooking for this archetype of,
like, you know, the the strongman that's just, you know, the
provider, whatever. But I thinkit's it's an it's a bit
(29:43):
distorted and romanticized.Right? And I think I don't I
don't know where that cameonline, to be honest. I don't I
don't know if it's, like,Hollywood or fantasies, but I
think there's a truth in, like,being able to be strong and
resilient.
Like, that's valuable. It'suseful. Like, we wanna be able
to provide as men. But, like, Ithink how we do that, like, the
(30:10):
you know, it's like a tree lookssolid and strong on its own,
but, you know, you don't see allthe invisible relationships that
are supporting it. And maybethat's where the distortion
comes in is, like, where we onlysee the, you know, the strong
successful guy.
Especially now, it's even moredistorted. Right? Because we
just see these, like, images ofwhoever somebody is from the
(30:35):
outside. It's very superficial.Like, we don't know the
underworkings of what allowedthem to to get to where they
are.
Right? And, and a lot of it'spostured and fake too. Right?
You don't you don't get
Eric Bomyea (30:46):
the full context. You get a snapshot. Right? You
don't see the entire team behindsomebody or all the the
interconnections that allowsomebody to look and appear
successful. That person didn'tmake it all on their own.
There's so many different thingsat play that allowed for that to
to happen. And So even thinkabout the trees, it's like it's
not just even the the fellowtrees. It's also, like, rain and
(31:11):
sun and, like, all these otherthings that, like like, have to
come together to allow for thattree to grow and to be as strong
and stable as it can be so itcan with storm or withstand
storms. You know? It's it's it'snourishment.
And so how do we how do we makenourishment sexy?
Timothy Bish (31:33):
Well, I think in part, it's about allowing us
allowing men to be more than onething at one time. And I feel
like there's a lot of educationnow about, like, well, you are
you are, like, the provider, andit looks like this. And not
having a robust conversationaround, like, well, I can be,
(31:54):
many things. So I have this oneexample. I used to be a
professional dancer.
I can at times be, like, very,like, playful and, like,
flamboyant. You know? And thenso I had dancer friends come see
me at work when I was assistantmanaging a gym in New York City
called Crunch. And they saidlater, they're like, Tim, like,
you you seem so upset. Like,what's going on?
(32:16):
I'm like, I'm not upset. I'm themanager. I was like, I like,
both of these things are trueexpressions of who I am. Well, I
can't I can't, like, do a highkick and, like, make everyone
laugh when I'm the manager. Ican do that in rehearsal on
break.
Yeah. You know, just as anexample, I think the more we
have that the more all men havethe ability to be like, I can be
(32:37):
nurturing. I can be sensitive ora good listener, and then I
could be primal in bed and makelove to whomever I'm making love
to. In that way, these can allcoexist.
Eric Bomyea (32:48):
I would like to see a future, though, where
something can coexist, andthat's a manager doing a high
kick while still managing.Right? Like, I, like, I I do
believe there's also that thosethings should also be able to
exist.
Timothy Bish (33:01):
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I would do one right now if I
were warmed up.
Soma Miller (33:03):
Woo. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, one of
the things that I've always, youknow, kind of admired in the
queer community is it seems I Imean, at least from from the
outside, right, it seems likethere is a little bit more per
permission for, like, selfexpression, in more range. I I
don't know.
You know, it could be differentdifferent layers of conditioning
(33:25):
there. But, yeah, I think, yeah,for for myself, that's something
I've had to to learn how to,bring online. And I think I've
had to practice, you know,leaning into these these
different layers of my being andand allowing them to be
(33:47):
witnessed, right, in in a safespace so that I could feel like,
alright. This part of me iswelcome, and this part of me is
welcome, and this part of me iswelcome. And, you know, I think
the the men that are really thesexiest and most attractive,
just to bring it back to thatpoint, are the men that have
gotten to that point of, like,real self acceptance where
(34:09):
they're not really giving a fuckthat much about what other
people think about them.
They're just kind ofunapologetically who they are.
And, you know, it's like, youknow, all different. But we I
mean, we see that in, like, therock star archetype. Right?
Like, where they're, you know,they could have, like, long
flowing hair and, you know, bigbell bottoms, whatever, and and
(34:31):
they're, you know, totallyconsidered masculine or
desirable or whatever.
Right?
Timothy Bish (34:37):
Yeah. You
Soma Miller (34:37):
know, whatever masculinity is, like, it's it's
a bit of a nebulous concept onsome level. Right? Like, we
culturally form what that is toto a degree, and I think there's
also some naturalcharacteristics. Right? But it's
all kinda coming through thislens of reductionism a little
(34:59):
bit.
Right? And so as as soon as wereduce something to this this is
how it is, it becomes, it startsto get distorted. Right? It
doesn't really have the freedomto evolve. And and so that's
kind of why I lean away fromeven some of the modern men's
(35:19):
work stuff where it really triesto, like, rigidly define, like,
this is what it means to be aman.
This is how you're supposed toshow up. You know? I try to, you
know, like, invite in masculinequalities. How can we play with
them? Feel them in our body.
Get a sense of, like, oh, maybeI'm a bit cut off from that
part, but not limit ourselves tothat's what it means to be a
(35:43):
man.
Timothy Bish (35:43):
Yeah. Thank you for that. And I'm curious then,
I imagine, the men that you workwith, are drawn to you or the
for the unique kind of medicinethat you're bringing, how do you
how do you see it positivelyimpacting them?
Soma Miller (35:57):
I think some of what I've already spoken to is,
like, it there's just a littlebit more permission to be who
they are, like and that turnsinto, like, self acceptance.
Right? Like, oh, yeah. Like,this part of me is okay. Like,
it's okay to sometimes feel,like, needy and dependent.
And, you know, I think theproblem is not the neediness,
(36:19):
you know, or whatever the thething that we think is wrong.
It's it's the problem is that wethink it's wrong. Right. And so
that makes it become somethinglike an expression that can then
actually become toxic. Right?
Because we are, having thislayer of shame over it, and it
becomes like a shadow form ofthe thing that really is just a,
(36:42):
you know, energetic expressionof being.
Timothy Bish (36:45):
Mhmm.
Soma Miller (36:46):
But when we suppress and we judge and we
reject, these things that aretrue to who we are. It's true to
our essence. Right? Like, my mybrand is called the essential
man. It's really about mentapping into their true essence.
And and that is, you know, thisunique signature of humanity
(37:08):
that moves through you thatreally can't be defined and
encapsulated. You know? It'sjust is. And, you know,
ultimately, that's really mymission, right, is to to give
men space to embody their trueessence of being. And and that's
just, like, really living beyondconditioning and and being free
(37:31):
to be who we are.
And I see that when men, like,really confront their shame and
feel like it's okay to show up.You know? It might start just in
a container, a coachingcontainer, where it's like, hey.
Let's welcome that part. Right?
He's he's safe to be here. Like,what does he need? What does he
want? And and that allows formen to show up more
(37:55):
authentically, bring theirhearts more, share their truth,
be more honest, express theirdesires, all of these things.
Timothy Bish (38:05):
When you were speaking, the image that kept
popping up for me was the imageof a piano as if as if it, like,
sort of represents the, like,the whole range of human
experience. And then each personor each song, you're like, oh, I
may I may not use every key. Iget to experiment with, like,
what is available, and then Ican find, like, the range where
I'm most comfortable. But, like,even the recognition of, like,
(38:28):
oh, I can I can resonate thisnote and this note and this note
and this note, feels like areally powerful possibility? And
then it feels like men'sworkspaces are creating that
space into which we can start toexplore, what parts of us exist
and maybe how much of it wewant.
Right? Like, I yeah. Just maybeI want a a pinch of this and two
(38:52):
cups of that, and that's that'smy recipe.
Eric Bomyea (38:54):
Right? All all notes are welcome. And if your
piano is a little out of tune,don't worry. We got you. We will
help tune it up a little bit sothat you can continue to play
all of those beautiful notes andfind the melody that is the
truest expression of you.
Timothy Bish (39:09):
Mhmm.
Eric Bomyea (39:09):
So beautiful analogy. Yeah. Yeah. I love what
you're saying, Soma, about,like, this the the the language
that I keep hearing you sayingis warm and inviting and
welcoming. And I think that,like, the more that we feel
invited, the more that we feelwelcome, the more it gives us
kind of permission to welcomeourselves.
(39:31):
Like, for at least for myjourney. Right? Like, I I've had
to experience the warmth ofothers to better welcome myself.
And I know that, like, sometimespeople are like, oh, you should
be able to do all the the hardwork on yourself, and, like, you
should just be able to acceptyourself. And it's like, well,
that's not where I'm at, and Iactually need a little bit of
support.
And I do need to be needy, and Ido need to get that that
(39:52):
welcoming from somebody. And thethe ability to receive it, to
receive warmth, to receivesomebody's invitation is just
one of the most beautiful thingsin the world and is something
that is allowing me to welcomemore of myself online as well.
Soma Miller (40:07):
Yeah. I mean, that validation goes a long way. And,
you know, it it can it can alsobe a little bit of a trap,
right, where we're we'reconstantly seeking outside
validation. But but I think whenit's an intentional space I
mean, just going back to theidea of a container. Right?
Like, if we're I think there's areal distinction between when
(40:27):
we're unconsciously seekingsomething and when there's a
conscious place where we can getthat need met, and it's very
intentional to to show up there,and and that's what it's there
for. Right? It goes in deeper,and it actually fills the voids
that we try to fill in theseindirect ways often.
Eric Bomyea (40:48):
So we talked a lot about, like, some of the the
court or childhood wounding thatwe might experience and how that
kinda manifests itself, youknow, in in moments of, like,
trigger and then moving into theconscious man. So, like, as we
start to get towards our ourwrapping up, I wanted to talk a
little bit about, like, some,like, practical things that
people might be able to startdoing today. You know, maybe
(41:13):
it's their first time hearingabout some of these things.
Like, what are some of thethings that you would recommend
for Soma and then you, Tim, of,like, starting to get into this.
Soma Miller (41:23):
Yeah. I mean, there there's a lot. I think, you
know, there's definitely, like,self work. Right? We talked a
lot about men's work and groupwork and, you know, it's not a
fix all, right, being being inmen's work.
We we really have to show up forourselves. And, you know, some
men are not % ready for steppinginto that kind of space, maybe
(41:48):
trust or safety issues,whatever. But, you know, if you
are feeling kinda stuck or justrepeating patterns in your life
or self sabotaging, you know, alot of lot can happen when
you're willing to cultivate selfawareness. Right? And, and it's
(42:08):
one thing to, you know,retrospectively have awareness
of, like, oh, yeah.
I fucked up. Like, that sucksand, you know, can't really turn
back the clock. But, you know,one of the classic tools for
cultivating self awareness islearning to to sit and meditate
and just to be still and just towatch. And it's you know, if
(42:34):
you're new to that practice,even that's kinda difficult
without some guidance and somestructure. But, you know, your
ability to just, like, sit inyour experience and, like, stay
there.
And I think there's differenttypes of meditation, and there's
forms that are a bit moreembodied. And I think, one of
(42:54):
things I'm one of the things I'mjust a huge advocate for is men
learning how to really sink intotheir bodies more fully, and and
that really you know, there'sthere's a lot a lot to
describing what embodiment is,but for me, it really begins
with, can you really stay withthe sensate experience without
(43:22):
ejecting, right, without goingoff into thought, without trying
to distract yourself? Becausethat, I think, particularly in
modern day, is just one of thevital skills that we all need to
have. You know, we live in this,like, ADHD world that is really
(43:42):
cultivating more of that. Right?
How can we distract ourselves?How can we move away from and I
I think we really, as men inparticular, need to learn how to
just be still, be connected, andbe present with and allow things
to arise and and to stay withthem, stay with the feelings,
(44:04):
stay with the sensation becausethat skill carries over into
just about everything in life.
Timothy Bish (44:09):
I couldn't agree with you more. I, I would I
would say that embodiment andcreating a conscious
relationship with our own bodyis such an important, step. And
I think one of the reasons forme is because there's an
assumption that I've heard. Ofcourse, we all have a
relationship with our bodybecause I'm in my body all the
(44:29):
time. And I've noticed, thatthat isn't true.
That there are, you know, thereare people who, for lots of
different reasons, don't allowthemselves to sit in their own
physical experience and feelwhat the thing is. And and then
when that feeling gets too bigto ignore, I think that's often
(44:50):
when we will run to, things thatwill help to turn it down. And
so just cultivating that, whichbrings me back to, like, why is
a chi generator or a yoga classor, you know, anything like
that, the this creation of arelationship, a conscious
relationship with our own body,which then is the conscious
relationship with our ownfeeling, is a a powerful tool, a
(45:16):
powerful tool so that we canmake choices from that place. I
feel like I feel like we'resaying the same thing and that,
you know, stillness is one wayto do that because, busying
ourselves can can sort of muddythe water there a little bit.
But, also, for those who arestill, there are these other
kinds of practices that canwelcome you into, well, what
(45:39):
does what does challenge reallyfeel like and what happens in me
when I meet the challenge?
So I talk about this all thetime, not just in embodiment
circles, but in yoga classes.I'm like, we're not we're not
getting to our edge because it'sthe most impressive variation of
what we're doing. We're gettingto our edge so that we can then
practice with all the thingsthat come up. And, you know,
(45:59):
you've probably heard this ahundred times. I've said it many
times.
If something comes up on ouryoga mat, it comes up in our
life. So when I'm at my edge, ifI start to wanna run away,
that's a thing I need to becomeaware of. If I start to if I
start to get angry at the yogateacher, which people do, that's
the thing I should be aware of.You know, and that's why I'll
(46:19):
make a joke about it. But,anyway, so piggybacking on what
you said, I I couldn't agreemore.
I think that consciousrelationship with our body is a
tool of the conscious man fordeeper and deeper authentic
engagement.
Soma Miller (46:31):
Yeah. %. And I'm I'm a huge believer in in yoga.
I've been practicing for over acouple decades. And, you know,
one thing to be aware of,though, is particularly
particularly maybe as a man orjust, you know, how we tend to
practice yoga as modern peopleis it can be it can kind of hook
into a lot of the alreadyprevalent masculine conditioning
(46:55):
around performance, right, whereit's sort of more about, like, a
competition of, like, doing,versus being, right, and and
really connecting to ourexperience.
So I think it's just importantto realize where you're coming
to it from. Right? Are you doingit to, like, try to prove
something, or are you reallylearning you know, it's the same
(47:18):
practice no matter what you'reup to, whether it's yoga or
doing the dishes. Like, am Ireally able to be with this?
Right?
Eric Bomyea (47:26):
We, had a conversation about this several
episodes back where I was thatperson in a yoga class, like,
feeling the competitive edge,and I coined the phrase, people
doing the poses the mostess,where, like, you know, you're in
this class with these peoplethat are super experienced and,
like like, if if you're notaware of your own tendencies,
(47:47):
you can get swept up into thatvery quickly like I did, and
then I got injured because I waslike, oh, I could do this. No. I
could
Timothy Bish (47:53):
not. I'll often remind people in class that,
sometimes the the hardest ormost advanced pose that they
could do in that moment is notthe fullest expression of the
pose, but to honor where they'reat. And, like, one good example
is, like, full wheel pose.Right? You're like, and then
reminding people, oh, your yourreal practice might be
(48:16):
recognizing that full wheel isnot available to you today.
And that and then it doesn'tmean anything about you if the
person next to you is in fullwheel and you're in half wheel.
Eric Bomyea (48:24):
Absolutely.
Timothy Bish (48:25):
But that to me feels like the real yoga when
you're like, I'm I'm connectingwith what is and working with
that, and it's not about thephoto.
Eric Bomyea (48:34):
And really learning to ride your own ride. That's
one of my favorite phrases thatI've ever learned. Learned it in
motorcycle training safetyschool, and it's like Mhmm. It
follows me everywhere. Right?
Like, the more that I can ridemy own ride and feel confident
to do that means that I'vewelcomed more of my own
experience and trusting of myown self in, and I'm reliant
(48:57):
less on the outside world. I'mreliant less on outside
authority. So sometimes in ayoga class, I may need to ride
my own ride. I may need to say,I cannot look at outside
authority right now, and I needto do my own practice. You know,
while still respecting the spaceand the intention of of that
space, I think there's, youknow, something to be said
there.
Soma Miller (49:17):
Yeah. I mean, there's there's definitely the
gift of, like, tapping into thatwarrior and just, like, pushing
and you know, I think mensometimes do need to develop
that part of themselves,particularly modern men, if
they've gotten a little toosoft, right, and a little too
because, like, indulgent in, youknow, comfort. So I think yeah.
(49:40):
I don't wanna throw that out,but, you know, what I've noticed
in myself as my practice hasdeepened and because I have a
very competitive side of me andand, you know, I'm strong
physically. I'm capable.
I can do a lot with my body, andit feels good on a certain
level. But there is a way thatwe can disconnect and disembody
(50:06):
even in, like, a a powerful bodybased practice like that. And
like you said, like, there issomething about you know, I
think as we go deeper intohealing our stuff and our
patterns, there's just more of asubtlety to the the path and the
practice, and this is a littlebit more advanced level than
(50:30):
somebody just kinda steppinginto this. But, you get to
notice those little nuances andand learn how to you know, in
somatic experiencing, they theytalk about something called,
like, pendulation. Right?
So you, you know, you it's notjust about always being at full
throttle, right, and pushing ouredge like that. It's like, can
(50:50):
you lean into that edge, comeback out of it, lean into it,
and, you know, you kind ofexpand slowly over time. And I I
I think that's how we cultivateboth the kind of masculine and
the feminine within us. Right?Those there there's like an
interplay between those two thatallows each one to develop in
(51:13):
its own way.
They kind of keep expanding outif there's awareness to both of
them. And so it's like themasculine might be more that,
like, push. Let's go. Let'slet's do this. Right?
Timothy Bish (51:23):
Mhmm.
Soma Miller (51:23):
And the feminine is more like, hey. Wait. Hold on.
Is this safe? Like, can I gothere?
Can I open? Right? So it's kindadancing between those two. And I
think as men, we need to todevelop both of those capacities
so that we can, you know, leadourselves well into healing,
into more depth, into moreexpansion, but also be able to
(51:44):
bring that leadership to ourrelationships.
Eric Bomyea (51:46):
I I love it. It's got me thinking of the the
visual of the clutch. Right?Like, the throttle or the clutch
of, like, you know, with a caror a motorcycle. Right?
It's being able to, like like,find that that tension, right,
of, like, you know, when toaccelerate, when to pull it
back, and kind of just that thatdance that happens there. So
Mhmm. Love hearing. Yeah.
Soma Miller (52:05):
What a
Timothy Bish (52:06):
great description of the human experience. It's
interesting because we thinkabout when I think about the
ocean and how sometimes it cansort of, like, gently ebb and
flow, other times how it can beso powerful. And we never, we
never have, like, a fear ofjudgment where I sometimes feel
men in their pursuit ofunderstanding this balance that
(52:27):
we're talking about, fear theperception of weakness, fear the
perception of gayness or or orqueerness at times. But if we if
we could release that a littlebit, then we would start to
recognize, oh, it really is anebb and flow, and I never call
the tide weak, you know, or thecurrent. Anyway, that was a well
(52:50):
said.
Thank you. Beautifully said.
Soma Miller (52:54):
Yeah. Alright. Is
Eric Bomyea (52:56):
there any final thoughts? How are you feeling?
Are you feeling complete?
Timothy Bish (52:59):
I just wanna say thank you so much for coming and
having this conversation withus. It's been an absolute
pleasure, and I can't wait tohave numerous more conversations
with you, but, hopefully, also,share a a physical space at some
time, come to a workshop, or,you know Mhmm. Been great having
you.
Soma Miller (53:15):
Yeah. It's been a I I I love where the conversation
has gone. It's really beenenjoyable, and, you know, I look
forward to to further sharing.
Eric Bomyea (53:23):
Beautiful. Thank you so much. Tim, will you take
us out, please?
Timothy Bish (53:25):
I absolutely will. Let's close our eyes, allow
ourselves to settle. And as wedo settle into appreciation and
gratitude appreciation andgratitude for this sacred space
for this conversation, for anyinsights, awarenesses that came,
any takeaways or nuggets of goldthat we will hold on to. And in
(53:50):
this moment now, we release thearchetypes and the spirits. And
with these words, our containeris open, but not broken.
Uh-huh.
Soma Miller (54:01):
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Timothy Bish (54:05):
Thank you so much for joining us here in the
circle. If you'd like to stayconnected to us between
episodes, please follow us onInstagram at queer men's
embodiment. Like, subscribe,rate, and review wherever you
find podcasts. And as we leavenow, I wish you brotherhood,
connection, authenticity,vulnerability, safety, and love.
(54:27):
And with these words, ourcontainer is open but not
broken.
Uho.
Welcome back to the circle. Today, we're joined by
Soma Miller, founder of theEssential Man, to explore how
unresolved wounds shape ourlives and how men's work,
brotherhood, and embodimentpractices can help us step into
maturity, integrity, andpurpose. Tim, Soma, are you
ready to go all in? I'm ready.
Soma Miller (00:22):
Ready.
Eric Bomyea (00:23):
Let's do this then. So, Soma, I'm so glad you could
join us here today. Could youshare a little bit about your
journey? What led you to men'swork and the creation of the
essential man? And how did yourown experiences shape the work
that you do today?
Soma Miller (00:36):
Yeah. So it's been been quite a long journey
between, you know, the myintroduction to men's work. I
got into this work in my earlytwenties. I, was living in
Southern California, was kind ofinspired by this lecture
(00:59):
presentation type of thing Iwent to about a man talking
about rites of passage work.And, yeah, I just felt this kind
of something awaken in me, like,kind of a hunger or a calling to
understand what it means to be aman.
And I I don't know where eventhat came from. Right? That that
(01:19):
whole, like, longing, but itspoke to me. And, soon after
that, it was kind of like aseries of serendipitous things
that led me to finding, ateacher or, like, a mentor that
was leading a group of menthrough a a year long rite of
(01:43):
passage experience. His name wasFrancis Weller.
You know, since leading, anumber of different, you know,
groups such as mine through thatwork, he's done a lot of, really
powerful writing and and,exploration around grief. That's
kinda his his primary focus.But, yeah, it was, you know, the
(02:08):
the the work that we did, it wasone of his teachers and the kind
of the lineage that he camethrough, was, a teacher by the
name of Maladoma Somay, who'skind of like a indigenous elder
shaman who came from Africa and,brought some of those more
(02:29):
traditional rites of passage.And so, you know, Francis's work
was, like, kind of an adaptationof of that that, you know, was a
bit more designed to fit, youknow, modernity and and our
modern cultural conditioning.But it was very still much
(02:51):
rooted in, how can we, in a way,reclaim our relationship to to
nature and the sacred.
Timothy Bish (03:03):
You you mentioned you mentioned in that, wanting
to understand better, what itmeant to be a man, and I'm
curious if, divinity andconnection to nature are two
primary components from yourview of what it means to be an
authentic man today?
Soma Miller (03:19):
Yeah. I mean, it's a good question. You know, I for
me, like, I I tend to lean awayfrom any kind of blanket
ideologies of, like, you know,this is how it should be,
because I think it's really upto each man to discover that for
himself. It's been very much apart of my life, and, yeah, it's
(03:43):
certainly in my value system toadvocate for the, you know, of
course, like, the relationshipto to nature, which is, you
know, who we are fundamentally.But, you know, the way that we
live in our modern lives isquite disconnected.
And and yeah. So to me, like,there is a truth in that that I
(04:09):
live as a principal and and tryto integrate into my work,
without being too moralisticabout it. But, yeah, I think,
you know, how how we treatnature, our relationship to
nature, is really a keycomponent that I think is
missing from a lot of men'slives, because we are you know,
(04:34):
we we've kind of beenconditioned and indoctrinated in
this kind of command and conquerand control version of
masculinity that has, you know,created a certain paradigm in
our consciousness. Right? And Ithink that shows up in how we we
relate on all different levels.
(04:56):
Right? So yes. And then as wellas, like, the the sacred or the
divine. Right? There's it's oneof those things that, you know,
a lot of people have anexperience of.
It's hard to define what thatis. It's more of a feeling. It's
more of a possibility, more of amystery. And, again, I think I
(05:18):
think those things are kind ofintertwined. Right?
Like, in some cosmologies ofthought. Right? Like, the nature
and that, you know, mysterious,un ineffable, unfathomable
aspect of existence is actuallymore of, like, the feminine.
(05:39):
Right? The the the divinefeminine.
And, you know, in our kind ofpatriarchal worldview, we've cut
this kind of very, like,masculine ideal of God or the
divine. But that's that's notactually really what resonates
for me. It's actually more the,you know, the divine feminine.
(06:00):
It's like, it's that part of usthat, you know, we can't really
conquer. We can't ever fullyunderstand, and that's a good
thing.
Right? It kinda puts us in thisplace of humility, which creates
a kind of openness, and I thinkthat's a a very powerful way to
(06:20):
operate.
Eric Bomyea (06:21):
Yeah. I resonate with that. And something that's
that's striking me right now isyour your comfortability level
with with these themes and thesetopics. And so I'm curious if
you could take us back to beforeyour rite of passage and talk to
me a little bit about, like,your youth and how, your did you
have a connection to nature andthe divine early on, or was it
(06:42):
something that you discoveredthrough this rite of passage
that you went on?
Soma Miller (06:44):
Yeah. It's a good question. I mean, I, you know, I
think I'm kind of a a uniquebeing in a certain sense and
that I and I grew up in ahousehold that was very, like,
creative, artistic, progressivethinking. And and so I think
(07:06):
that certainly had an influence,on me. And I would say my
relationship with nature ispretty inherent into my being.
You know, I came online prettyearly in my life, but I just
felt drawn to, like, gardeningand just being outside and
(07:28):
creating. And, however, youknow, there were certain events
in, you know, in early childhoodand then, my teenage years that
opened me up more. One of thosebeing working with psychedelics,
as a teenager, and it just kindaturned me on to that kind of
(07:53):
vastness. Right? The theawareness of the
interconnectedness of things,and and there was a kind of
sense making that opened up inme and a of a contrasting with,
like, you know, this awarenessof, like, a connection to, like,
(08:16):
this is how we're meant to liveand and sort of contrasting that
with this is kind of how we'reliving as a culture, and
something just felt kinda off tome.
You know? And yeah. So thosethose were kinda built into my
path. And, you know, I think theinitiation for me, what that
(08:41):
brought online you know, I thinkI was already, like, a deep
introspective, creative, kindamystical person, pretty early on
as teenager. But, you know, thatthat rite of passage experience
for me was really, about findinga sense of belonging in
(09:03):
community, realizing that I'mnot here to, like, process my
emotions alone, that I needspaces where I can, like, bring
my full self, particularly withmen.
And it was also about learningto feel safe with men, you know,
(09:28):
because I think even though Igrew up in a household that was
forward thinking andprogressive, there was also with
that came a certain, projectionof, you know, the story that a
lot of us hear these days. Like,men are bad. Men are the
(09:48):
problem. Right? My mom had a lotof wounding with the masculine
with her father.
Right? And so in a way, like,I'm grateful that I grew up in
that environment, but I was alittle bit, like, feminized.
Right? Like, I wasn't my mom wasnot comfortable with masculine
energy. And so, you know, ithelped me to really develop my,
(10:09):
you know, feminine creativeside, but, I think it really
took being around other men, ina sacred container that allowed
me to to feel like, oh, yeah.
I I fucking love men. Like, menare amazing. Yeah.
Timothy Bish (10:31):
So I'm curious about, like, the rite of
passage, especially since, we'rethinking about men's work, and
specifically for queer men. Ibelieve a lot of queer men that
I know have had their own sortof rites of passage, like having
to leave home, having to findoften chosen family and and and
new things. And so I'm curiousbecause my experience of those
(10:53):
are often that they're just sortof brushed upon the person. They
don't exist in a safe containeror or with, with, like, the
safety that you mentioned. Socould you talk a little bit
about how you how or why youthink men can really benefit
from the safety of a containerand in a in that right of
passage, like, for all men?
Soma Miller (11:14):
Yeah. Well, you know, the I think because
collectively, we have, formillennia, gone through these
experiences. It's kind of, like,in our DNA. Right? Like, men
used to be initiated.
(11:35):
And and so on some level, youknow, I think part of the the
psyche or the soul looks forthat. And I think we we end up,
in a way creating those rites ofpassages unconsciously and
(11:55):
maybe, like, harmful ordestructive ways because we're
unconsciously looking for thatstructure to help us to really
emotionally mature is reallywhat I think the work is. You
know? It's it's really our workas men is, like, how do we
emotionally mature? How do wegrow up?
(12:18):
And, you know, I think the theboy in all of us, right, is is
looking to find, you know, anarchetype that can can help us
be an expression of our maturemasculine. And, if we don't have
those kind of containers, right,where it's modeled, right, it's
(12:40):
transmitted, it's sort of, youknow, what I found in in men's
spaces, like, there is aconsciousness that emerges when
men get together that is, youknow, as a whole, more developed
than, like, an individual mantrying to, like, up level his
(13:03):
life. Right? Like, we try to doin personal development work.
Right?
There's, like, something thatcomes alive and online that
happens when when men mergetogether because there's just
more of a field of awareness.And and so I don't really think
like, there's a lot of peoplethat try to self initiate.
(13:23):
Right? And I just don't thinkit's really effective because we
need it's like, you know,sitting in a room of, like,
mirrors where we can see theback of our body and, like, our
insides and, you know, all theseparts that we we can't really
see alone. Right?
We always are gonna have blindspots. And so, yeah, I think
(13:46):
there's there's something thathappens in that kind of
container where our stuff comesto the surface. Right? It gets
amplified. It gets activated.
The good and the bad. Right? Allthe all the stuff, the shadows,
even our our beauty and ourgreatness. And, you know, it's
(14:07):
it's hard to see all of it. It'shard to see even the good parts
of ourselves.
And I really think that, maybemodern initiations are are a bit
different than they needed to bein the past. I think men deal
with so much shame and selfdeprecation that, you know, we
(14:32):
need safe spaces for men to comeand see who they really are.
Eric Bomyea (14:37):
Absolutely. The the the wounds from childhood really
and can do a number on onpeople, and I'll speak from my
own experience of, you know,like, the the wounds that I
experienced early on caused meto grow up very quickly and
start to put on this facade,this this armor that, like, I'm
(15:00):
gonna be a man at the age ofsix. Right? And, like like, did
not have the chance to fully bea boy. And it hasn't been until
recently of my deeper dive intomen's work and going on retreat
and being with men that I'veactually started to feel the the
safety and comfort to, likelike, let that boy out a little
(15:22):
bit more and to allow, like yousaid, this this almost hall of
mirrors to reflect back at me,the the wounds that I'm running
from or that I'm afraid of andalso the beauty that is inside
of me as well.
And so just hearing you talkabout that, like, I resonate
with this this work so muchbecause of that. And of being
(15:43):
able to, like, start to, likelike, let my inner boy out and,
like, let him be held in thecompany of men and conscious men
and on my way to becoming aconscious man myself.
Soma Miller (15:56):
Yeah. It's beautiful. I I love hearing
that. And, yeah, I think thereis a lot of grief that we carry
as men because of that, youknow, for different reasons.
Right?
We we cut off parts of ourselvesin this way. And, you know, my
idea of emotional maturity isnot about getting rid of the boy
entirely. You know? It's moreabout looking at the strategies
(16:20):
that the boy used to survive,right, or the parts of himself
that he disconnected from sothat, like, that healthy,
integrated boy energy can kindacome online and and bring
playfulness and that kind of aweand wonder and curiosity about
life. Like, that's such animportant vital energy.
(16:40):
And, but he needs to feel safeto bring that. Yeah.
Timothy Bish (16:44):
You know, so I entered into men's work, shortly
after pandemic, and I I wentinto this, coaching program. You
know, everything had shut down.All my work was face to face.
And I opted to go into a men'scoaching program, men's wisdom
work run by Zapparaka. And I didit because I was like I thought
I'm afraid of straight men.
(17:05):
I have a a lifetime of proofthat they are dangerous, and I
need I felt like I needed to,walk into the environment to
heal to heal that. And, and inthat process since I've been in
men's work since then, soclearly I I see, like, what it's
capable of doing and why I wannabring it to my community. But
what I was fascinated by was, asa queer person, I had a mistrust
(17:29):
of men. And a lot of other queerpeople that I knew, also had
that mistrust. You just spokeabout, like, your mom and sort
of a cultural sort of, feelingaround men or masculinity.
But then I learned, as you justvoiced, other straight men were
also struggling with theirability to trust men. That was
(17:50):
the thing that I wasn'tinitially super clued into, but
it felt, when I got there, likea shared experience. I wonder if
you could talk a little bitabout the importance of healing
that. Like, how how we heal thatthat mistrust so that we can
have the experiences that we alljust mentioned.
Soma Miller (18:09):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to me, that's, like, one of the
most potent aspects of men'swork that I've experienced is
really where we can kinda takedown our guard. And and as men,
like, learn learn to share the,you know, those deeper
vulnerable truths. And, youknow, I know vulnerability is
(18:29):
kind of a buzzword, but it'sreally it's like, what are the
things that we're afraid toshare?
Right? What are the things thatjust feel, like, too taboo, too
out there? There's so much shamearound them. If we can lean into
those things, what I found isthat it just creates such a
resonance, and, like, a a trustbuilding that, you know, it
(18:52):
draws us closer to each other,and we feel not alone. I think
there's such a a loneliness inin the hearts of so many men
because we feel like, you know,we're the only ones with the
issue.
Right? We're the only onesstruggling. I'm fucked up like
(19:14):
nobody else is.
Timothy Bish (19:16):
Yeah.
Soma Miller (19:18):
But, you know, when you start to share, you realize,
oh, yeah. You got that too.Right? And and there's such a
almost like a relief thathappens. Right?
And it it I found that it when Iwitness men do that and when
I've done that myself, it, itcreates just such a freedom to
(19:41):
be beyond the circle itself.Right? Beyond being in the
group. Like, you realize thatyou're not so dark and twisted
or that your dark andtwistedness is okay. Right?
And and then, like, you know,it's just easier to relax into
life and and just to be moreyourself. And and then, like,
(20:05):
the gift of that is just moremore of all of you comes online.
Just more creativity, more senseof connection and belonging. So
there's just, like, a amultilayered way that it plays
out. And I think it really alsohelps in relationships.
(20:28):
Right? Because I think there's,you know, the scary, vulnerable
parts of ourselves that we thinkare are not okay to bring to our
really close intimaterelationships too. And it
creates this kind of pressure,right, when when our intimate
relationships are, like, theonly place that that's allowed
(20:49):
to come out. And I think whenthat happens, it just, you know,
creates these kind ofdistortions, where it's harder
for often for a partner to,like, be with that because we
haven't learned how to be withourselves. You know?
We haven't been reflected backthat we're okay there. Right?
(21:12):
Like, that's okay, that part ofus. And and so I think the just
to kinda emphasize when we sitin a circle and we can be held
by all these different beingsand bodies and minds and hearts,
the the weight of holdingourselves is not so dense and
(21:36):
heavy. And I think it thenbecomes easier for, like, a
closer intimate relationship tobe able to kinda metabolize what
we bring.
Timothy Bish (21:46):
Yeah. That's I think it's just so important.
When people ask me about men'swork, oftentimes, the question
is coming from the outside in.So, like, well, how does that
chi generator or how does that,like, journaling practice, like,
how does that, you know, relate?And I try to tell people it's
really about, like, this breadthof experience that allows us to
(22:09):
show up more fully inrelationship, in the way we
engage in our world.
Like, the more I know myself,the more I know my edges, the
more the more I know mycapacities and, you know, my
vulnerabilities, and the morethat I'm able to show it, the
more fully I can be with you.That's a hard thing, though, to,
like, put in an Instagram post.Right? You know? And so you're
Soma Miller (22:28):
like, no. Right. Yeah. It is hard. Yeah.
I mean, that's always been thehard part is, like, selling men
on the value of it. You know?It's it's such an experiential
thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Timothy Bish (22:39):
There's a man in, in a mere space, an embodied
masculine, a a man that I love.I've known him for quite a long
time. And I'm just on the lastretreat, we were having this
conversation, and I rememberwalking down from the hike
thinking, like, here's this manthat I I value deeply. We see
each other, like, occasionally,once every two years or you
(23:01):
know? But can call him wheneverI need and feel held and heard
by him, and he can do the samefor me.
Mhmm. And I'm like, whateverInstagram post would be needed
to, like, have that momentbecause you're like, well,
that's part of the goal rightthere. That that ability to be
like, I trust this dude. I cantell him every you know, it's,
(23:23):
the magic in it.
Eric Bomyea (23:23):
The magic of of being held and supported to to
know that you've got otherpeople in the world that can
relate to your experience, thatit's not just your burden to
carry by yourself. There's beena couple moments in my life
where I've been able to reallylet my body relax someplace, and
one of them was actually in amud bath in, Napa Valley. Right?
(23:48):
Like, I was in this like, I Ididn't know what I was signing
up for. I was like, that soundsfun.
So, like, me and an ex boyfriendand his brother, we just booked
this, like, spa experience wherewe, like, sat in mud, and then
they, like, threw more mud ontop of us. And the the beautiful
thing about a mud bath is that,like, the viscosity of it allows
your body to, like, fully besuspended. And, like, you get to
(24:13):
kind of, like, just let gobecause your body is being
supported even though you're notsinking to the bottom. Right?
You're just kinda suspended inthis beautiful earth.
And that feeling is is similarto the feeling that I get when
I'm with men who are also doingthe work. I feel like I'm in
this beautiful, warm, deliciousmud bath with them where I'm,
(24:34):
like, I can rest my body. Idon't have to be so on edge, and
I feel like I can actually justrest, like, be supported.
Timothy Bish (24:45):
Well, it feels like it might be true for all
men, certainly true for queermen, the sphere of abandonment.
I feel like one of the thingsthat men's work does, and I'd
love to hear your thoughts onthis, is it lets me know, oh, I
can have a conflict, and I'm notimmediately confronted with the
idea of, like, this is gonnaruin my relationship. You're
(25:06):
gonna stop being my friend.You're never gonna talk to me
again. We're gonna get into afight.
It you the the word
Eric Bomyea (25:12):
is reading the inside ticker of my mind right
now.
Soma Miller (25:16):
Well well, just if you know
Timothy Bish (25:17):
you have the tools and a conscious man in front of
you, like, oh, I can bring ahard thing to this person, and
it won't necessarily mean myabandonment or, like, the the
destruction of everything thatwe've built. And I think I think
specific like, a lot I thinkqueer men have that experience,
but I have to imagine straightmen have that too. This, and
then the tools allow a differentkind of relaxation. You're like,
(25:39):
oh, I can relax if I know thisisn't gonna crumble with a with
a light breeze.
Soma Miller (25:44):
Yeah. Yeah. %. I mean, I think I think that need
to belong is such aquintessential aspect of our
human experience, and, you know,it's very much survival based.
So when that feels threatened,which is kind of constant in our
modern, like, nuclear householdway of relating.
(26:05):
Right? We don't really have atribe where we got, like, 20
other people that love us,right, in in generally. So, you
know, we invest so much into,like, our one other. And, when
that feels threatened, right,that's when all of our survival
strategies tend to come online.So we end up being, like, less
(26:29):
authentic.
We withhold our truth. You know?We do, you know, do the things.
Right? We we distract ourselves.
We numb. We run away. We hide.So, yeah, I think I think
particularly when we can developmore of a kind of ecosystem of
(26:49):
belonging. Right?
That just goes beyond our ourintimate relationships. There's
just more sustainability, and Iand I really like to look at it
as an ecosystem. I mean, this isanother way that I bring in the
nature as a model to, how we'resupposed to live. Right? Like,
there's rather than, like,having parasitic relationships,
(27:12):
we're symbiotic with all thesekind of, you know,
interrelational support systems.
You know, a tree doesn't justrely on the dirt. You know? It
relies on, like, themicroorganisms. It relies on the
roots of other trees. So there'sall these kind of systems in
place to support us, and Ireally, you know, fundamentally
(27:36):
think that we as men haveforgotten that have forgotten
that we belong to somethingbigger.
And it it isn't just about ourhuman to human relationships
either. Right? It's also aboutour relationship to the
universe, you know, to thesacred mystery, to the natural
world. Like, we can get so muchsupport and sustenance from just
(27:56):
being outside. Yeah.
Timothy Bish (27:59):
I'm, I'm interested. As you were talking,
I'm thinking about this, like,symbiotic nature and and how we
kinda moved away from it andthis idea of this lone wolf,
like, strong guy. And I thinkpartly that became enticing
because it felt sexy or cool.And then I the the question that
sort of popped up is, like,well, how do we make, how do we
(28:20):
make this other, like, thisother possible expression that
maybe a more authentic,expression of our masculinity
also sexy? One that, like, onethat, like, runs the gamut.
I mean, is the movie just toolong? Does it need, like do you
know what I mean? Like, becauseI like, oh, we all we all wanna
be John Wayne or the Marlboroman or this, like, this guy
who's always strong and neverneeds help and kind of always
(28:42):
wins. But what you're kindatalking about is, oh, this this
ability to ebb and flow wheresometimes I am the strong the
strength of the trunk. SometimesI'm relying on other trees or
the fungi or whatever.
You're like, you know so I'mcurious if you have any ideas
about, like, that.
Soma Miller (28:59):
Yeah. How how to make, interrelational
masculinity sexy. That is thequestion. I love it. It's a good
question.
And, you know, it's I'm I'mcurious because I, you know, I
don't know how much of this Imean, it sounds like it's not
that much different from, like,you know, heteronormative
programming and, you know, queerbased promo programming. I don't
(29:21):
really know that, you know, howit impacts differently. Right?
Because I think I think there'sa lot of women that say they
want more of a man'svulnerability. Right?
But they're also, like, stilllooking for this archetype of,
like, you know, the the strongman that's just, you know, the
provider, whatever. But I thinkit's it's an it's a bit
(29:43):
distorted and romanticized.Right? And I think I don't I
don't know where that cameonline, to be honest. I don't I
don't know if it's, like,Hollywood or fantasies, but I
think there's a truth in, like,being able to be strong and
resilient.
Like, that's valuable. It'suseful. Like, we wanna be able
to provide as men. But, like, Ithink how we do that, like, the
(30:10):
you know, it's like a tree lookssolid and strong on its own,
but, you know, you don't see allthe invisible relationships that
are supporting it. And maybethat's where the distortion
comes in is, like, where we onlysee the, you know, the strong
successful guy.
Especially now, it's even moredistorted. Right? Because we
just see these, like, images ofwhoever somebody is from the
(30:35):
outside. It's very superficial.Like, we don't know the
underworkings of what allowedthem to to get to where they
are.
Right? And, and a lot of it'spostured and fake too. Right?
You don't you don't get
Eric Bomyea (30:46):
the full context. You get a snapshot. Right? You
don't see the entire team behindsomebody or all the the
interconnections that allowsomebody to look and appear
successful. That person didn'tmake it all on their own.
There's so many different thingsat play that allowed for that to
to happen. And So even thinkabout the trees, it's like it's
not just even the the fellowtrees. It's also, like, rain and
(31:11):
sun and, like, all these otherthings that, like like, have to
come together to allow for thattree to grow and to be as strong
and stable as it can be so itcan with storm or withstand
storms. You know? It's it's it'snourishment.
And so how do we how do we makenourishment sexy?
Timothy Bish (31:33):
Well, I think in part, it's about allowing us
allowing men to be more than onething at one time. And I feel
like there's a lot of educationnow about, like, well, you are
you are, like, the provider, andit looks like this. And not
having a robust conversationaround, like, well, I can be,
(31:54):
many things. So I have this oneexample. I used to be a
professional dancer.
I can at times be, like, very,like, playful and, like,
flamboyant. You know? And thenso I had dancer friends come see
me at work when I was assistantmanaging a gym in New York City
called Crunch. And they saidlater, they're like, Tim, like,
you you seem so upset. Like,what's going on?
(32:16):
I'm like, I'm not upset. I'm themanager. I was like, I like,
both of these things are trueexpressions of who I am. Well, I
can't I can't, like, do a highkick and, like, make everyone
laugh when I'm the manager. Ican do that in rehearsal on
break.
Yeah. You know, just as anexample, I think the more we
have that the more all men havethe ability to be like, I can be
(32:37):
nurturing. I can be sensitive ora good listener, and then I
could be primal in bed and makelove to whomever I'm making love
to. In that way, these can allcoexist.
Eric Bomyea (32:48):
I would like to see a future, though, where
something can coexist, andthat's a manager doing a high
kick while still managing.Right? Like, I, like, I I do
believe there's also that thosethings should also be able to
exist.
Timothy Bish (33:01):
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I would do one right now if I
were warmed up.
Soma Miller (33:03):
Woo. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, one of
the things that I've always, youknow, kind of admired in the
queer community is it seems I Imean, at least from from the
outside, right, it seems likethere is a little bit more per
permission for, like, selfexpression, in more range. I I
don't know.
You know, it could be differentdifferent layers of conditioning
(33:25):
there. But, yeah, I think, yeah,for for myself, that's something
I've had to to learn how to,bring online. And I think I've
had to practice, you know,leaning into these these
different layers of my being andand allowing them to be
(33:47):
witnessed, right, in in a safespace so that I could feel like,
alright. This part of me iswelcome, and this part of me is
welcome, and this part of me iswelcome. And, you know, I think
the the men that are really thesexiest and most attractive,
just to bring it back to thatpoint, are the men that have
gotten to that point of, like,real self acceptance where
(34:09):
they're not really giving a fuckthat much about what other
people think about them.
They're just kind ofunapologetically who they are.
And, you know, it's like, youknow, all different. But we I
mean, we see that in, like, therock star archetype. Right?
Like, where they're, you know,they could have, like, long
flowing hair and, you know, bigbell bottoms, whatever, and and
(34:31):
they're, you know, totallyconsidered masculine or
desirable or whatever.
Right?
Timothy Bish (34:37):
Yeah. You
Soma Miller (34:37):
know, whatever masculinity is, like, it's it's
a bit of a nebulous concept onsome level. Right? Like, we
culturally form what that is toto a degree, and I think there's
also some naturalcharacteristics. Right? But it's
all kinda coming through thislens of reductionism a little
(34:59):
bit.
Right? And so as as soon as wereduce something to this this is
how it is, it becomes, it startsto get distorted. Right? It
doesn't really have the freedomto evolve. And and so that's
kind of why I lean away fromeven some of the modern men's
(35:19):
work stuff where it really triesto, like, rigidly define, like,
this is what it means to be aman.
This is how you're supposed toshow up. You know? I try to, you
know, like, invite in masculinequalities. How can we play with
them? Feel them in our body.
Get a sense of, like, oh, maybeI'm a bit cut off from that
part, but not limit ourselves tothat's what it means to be a
(35:43):
man.
Timothy Bish (35:43):
Yeah. Thank you for that. And I'm curious then,
I imagine, the men that you workwith, are drawn to you or the
for the unique kind of medicinethat you're bringing, how do you
how do you see it positivelyimpacting them?
Soma Miller (35:57):
I think some of what I've already spoken to is,
like, it there's just a littlebit more permission to be who
they are, like and that turnsinto, like, self acceptance.
Right? Like, oh, yeah. Like,this part of me is okay. Like,
it's okay to sometimes feel,like, needy and dependent.
And, you know, I think theproblem is not the neediness,
(36:19):
you know, or whatever the thething that we think is wrong.
It's it's the problem is that wethink it's wrong. Right. And so
that makes it become somethinglike an expression that can then
actually become toxic. Right?
Because we are, having thislayer of shame over it, and it
becomes like a shadow form ofthe thing that really is just a,
(36:42):
you know, energetic expressionof being.
Timothy Bish (36:45):
Mhmm.
Soma Miller (36:46):
But when we suppress and we judge and we
reject, these things that aretrue to who we are. It's true to
our essence. Right? Like, my mybrand is called the essential
man. It's really about mentapping into their true essence.
And and that is, you know, thisunique signature of humanity
(37:08):
that moves through you thatreally can't be defined and
encapsulated. You know? It'sjust is. And, you know,
ultimately, that's really mymission, right, is to to give
men space to embody their trueessence of being. And and that's
just, like, really living beyondconditioning and and being free
(37:31):
to be who we are.
And I see that when men, like,really confront their shame and
feel like it's okay to show up.You know? It might start just in
a container, a coachingcontainer, where it's like, hey.
Let's welcome that part. Right?
He's he's safe to be here. Like,what does he need? What does he
want? And and that allows formen to show up more
(37:55):
authentically, bring theirhearts more, share their truth,
be more honest, express theirdesires, all of these things.
Timothy Bish (38:05):
When you were speaking, the image that kept
popping up for me was the imageof a piano as if as if it, like,
sort of represents the, like,the whole range of human
experience. And then each personor each song, you're like, oh, I
may I may not use every key. Iget to experiment with, like,
what is available, and then Ican find, like, the range where
I'm most comfortable. But, like,even the recognition of, like,
(38:28):
oh, I can I can resonate thisnote and this note and this note
and this note, feels like areally powerful possibility? And
then it feels like men'sworkspaces are creating that
space into which we can start toexplore, what parts of us exist
and maybe how much of it wewant.
Right? Like, I yeah. Just maybeI want a a pinch of this and two
(38:52):
cups of that, and that's that'smy recipe.
Eric Bomyea (38:54):
Right? All all notes are welcome. And if your
piano is a little out of tune,don't worry. We got you. We will
help tune it up a little bit sothat you can continue to play
all of those beautiful notes andfind the melody that is the
truest expression of you.
Timothy Bish (39:09):
Mhmm.
Eric Bomyea (39:09):
So beautiful analogy. Yeah. Yeah. I love what
you're saying, Soma, about,like, this the the the language
that I keep hearing you sayingis warm and inviting and
welcoming. And I think that,like, the more that we feel
invited, the more that we feelwelcome, the more it gives us
kind of permission to welcomeourselves.
(39:31):
Like, for at least for myjourney. Right? Like, I I've had
to experience the warmth ofothers to better welcome myself.
And I know that, like, sometimespeople are like, oh, you should
be able to do all the the hardwork on yourself, and, like, you
should just be able to acceptyourself. And it's like, well,
that's not where I'm at, and Iactually need a little bit of
support.
And I do need to be needy, and Ido need to get that that
(39:52):
welcoming from somebody. And thethe ability to receive it, to
receive warmth, to receivesomebody's invitation is just
one of the most beautiful thingsin the world and is something
that is allowing me to welcomemore of myself online as well.
Soma Miller (40:07):
Yeah. I mean, that validation goes a long way. And,
you know, it it can it can alsobe a little bit of a trap,
right, where we're we'reconstantly seeking outside
validation. But but I think whenit's an intentional space I
mean, just going back to theidea of a container. Right?
Like, if we're I think there's areal distinction between when
(40:27):
we're unconsciously seekingsomething and when there's a
conscious place where we can getthat need met, and it's very
intentional to to show up there,and and that's what it's there
for. Right? It goes in deeper,and it actually fills the voids
that we try to fill in theseindirect ways often.
Eric Bomyea (40:48):
So we talked a lot about, like, some of the the
court or childhood wounding thatwe might experience and how that
kinda manifests itself, youknow, in in moments of, like,
trigger and then moving into theconscious man. So, like, as we
start to get towards our ourwrapping up, I wanted to talk a
little bit about, like, some,like, practical things that
people might be able to startdoing today. You know, maybe
(41:13):
it's their first time hearingabout some of these things.
Like, what are some of thethings that you would recommend
for Soma and then you, Tim, of,like, starting to get into this.
Soma Miller (41:23):
Yeah. I mean, there there's a lot. I think, you
know, there's definitely, like,self work. Right? We talked a
lot about men's work and groupwork and, you know, it's not a
fix all, right, being being inmen's work.
We we really have to show up forourselves. And, you know, some
men are not % ready for steppinginto that kind of space, maybe
(41:48):
trust or safety issues,whatever. But, you know, if you
are feeling kinda stuck or justrepeating patterns in your life
or self sabotaging, you know, alot of lot can happen when
you're willing to cultivate selfawareness. Right? And, and it's
(42:08):
one thing to, you know,retrospectively have awareness
of, like, oh, yeah.
I fucked up. Like, that sucksand, you know, can't really turn
back the clock. But, you know,one of the classic tools for
cultivating self awareness islearning to to sit and meditate
and just to be still and just towatch. And it's you know, if
(42:34):
you're new to that practice,even that's kinda difficult
without some guidance and somestructure. But, you know, your
ability to just, like, sit inyour experience and, like, stay
there.
And I think there's differenttypes of meditation, and there's
forms that are a bit moreembodied. And I think, one of
(42:54):
things I'm one of the things I'mjust a huge advocate for is men
learning how to really sink intotheir bodies more fully, and and
that really you know, there'sthere's a lot a lot to
describing what embodiment is,but for me, it really begins
with, can you really stay withthe sensate experience without
(43:22):
ejecting, right, without goingoff into thought, without trying
to distract yourself? Becausethat, I think, particularly in
modern day, is just one of thevital skills that we all need to
have. You know, we live in this,like, ADHD world that is really
(43:42):
cultivating more of that. Right?
How can we distract ourselves?How can we move away from and I
I think we really, as men inparticular, need to learn how to
just be still, be connected, andbe present with and allow things
to arise and and to stay withthem, stay with the feelings,
(44:04):
stay with the sensation becausethat skill carries over into
just about everything in life.
Timothy Bish (44:09):
I couldn't agree with you more. I, I would I
would say that embodiment andcreating a conscious
relationship with our own bodyis such an important, step. And
I think one of the reasons forme is because there's an
assumption that I've heard. Ofcourse, we all have a
relationship with our bodybecause I'm in my body all the
(44:29):
time. And I've noticed, thatthat isn't true.
That there are, you know, thereare people who, for lots of
different reasons, don't allowthemselves to sit in their own
physical experience and feelwhat the thing is. And and then
when that feeling gets too bigto ignore, I think that's often
(44:50):
when we will run to, things thatwill help to turn it down. And
so just cultivating that, whichbrings me back to, like, why is
a chi generator or a yoga classor, you know, anything like
that, the this creation of arelationship, a conscious
relationship with our own body,which then is the conscious
relationship with our ownfeeling, is a a powerful tool, a
(45:16):
powerful tool so that we canmake choices from that place. I
feel like I feel like we'resaying the same thing and that,
you know, stillness is one wayto do that because, busying
ourselves can can sort of muddythe water there a little bit.
But, also, for those who arestill, there are these other
kinds of practices that canwelcome you into, well, what
(45:39):
does what does challenge reallyfeel like and what happens in me
when I meet the challenge?
So I talk about this all thetime, not just in embodiment
circles, but in yoga classes.I'm like, we're not we're not
getting to our edge because it'sthe most impressive variation of
what we're doing. We're gettingto our edge so that we can then
practice with all the thingsthat come up. And, you know,
(45:59):
you've probably heard this ahundred times. I've said it many
times.
If something comes up on ouryoga mat, it comes up in our
life. So when I'm at my edge, ifI start to wanna run away,
that's a thing I need to becomeaware of. If I start to if I
start to get angry at the yogateacher, which people do, that's
the thing I should be aware of.You know, and that's why I'll
(46:19):
make a joke about it. But,anyway, so piggybacking on what
you said, I I couldn't agreemore.
I think that consciousrelationship with our body is a
tool of the conscious man fordeeper and deeper authentic
engagement.
Soma Miller (46:31):
Yeah. %. And I'm I'm a huge believer in in yoga.
I've been practicing for over acouple decades. And, you know,
one thing to be aware of,though, is particularly
particularly maybe as a man orjust, you know, how we tend to
practice yoga as modern peopleis it can be it can kind of hook
into a lot of the alreadyprevalent masculine conditioning
(46:55):
around performance, right, whereit's sort of more about, like, a
competition of, like, doing,versus being, right, and and
really connecting to ourexperience.
So I think it's just importantto realize where you're coming
to it from. Right? Are you doingit to, like, try to prove
something, or are you reallylearning you know, it's the same
(47:18):
practice no matter what you'reup to, whether it's yoga or
doing the dishes. Like, am Ireally able to be with this?
Right?
Eric Bomyea (47:26):
We, had a conversation about this several
episodes back where I was thatperson in a yoga class, like,
feeling the competitive edge,and I coined the phrase, people
doing the poses the mostess,where, like, you know, you're in
this class with these peoplethat are super experienced and,
like like, if if you're notaware of your own tendencies,
(47:47):
you can get swept up into thatvery quickly like I did, and
then I got injured because I waslike, oh, I could do this. No. I
could
Timothy Bish (47:53):
not. I'll often remind people in class that,
sometimes the the hardest ormost advanced pose that they
could do in that moment is notthe fullest expression of the
pose, but to honor where they'reat. And, like, one good example
is, like, full wheel pose.Right? You're like, and then
reminding people, oh, your yourreal practice might be
(48:16):
recognizing that full wheel isnot available to you today.
And that and then it doesn'tmean anything about you if the
person next to you is in fullwheel and you're in half wheel.
Eric Bomyea (48:24):
Absolutely.
Timothy Bish (48:25):
But that to me feels like the real yoga when
you're like, I'm I'm connectingwith what is and working with
that, and it's not about thephoto.
Eric Bomyea (48:34):
And really learning to ride your own ride. That's
one of my favorite phrases thatI've ever learned. Learned it in
motorcycle training safetyschool, and it's like Mhmm. It
follows me everywhere. Right?
Like, the more that I can ridemy own ride and feel confident
to do that means that I'vewelcomed more of my own
experience and trusting of myown self in, and I'm reliant
(48:57):
less on the outside world. I'mreliant less on outside
authority. So sometimes in ayoga class, I may need to ride
my own ride. I may need to say,I cannot look at outside
authority right now, and I needto do my own practice. You know,
while still respecting the spaceand the intention of of that
space, I think there's, youknow, something to be said
there.
Soma Miller (49:17):
Yeah. I mean, there's there's definitely the
gift of, like, tapping into thatwarrior and just, like, pushing
and you know, I think mensometimes do need to develop
that part of themselves,particularly modern men, if
they've gotten a little toosoft, right, and a little too
because, like, indulgent in, youknow, comfort. So I think yeah.
(49:40):
I don't wanna throw that out,but, you know, what I've noticed
in myself as my practice hasdeepened and because I have a
very competitive side of me andand, you know, I'm strong
physically. I'm capable.
I can do a lot with my body, andit feels good on a certain
level. But there is a way thatwe can disconnect and disembody
(50:06):
even in, like, a a powerful bodybased practice like that. And
like you said, like, there issomething about you know, I
think as we go deeper intohealing our stuff and our
patterns, there's just more of asubtlety to the the path and the
practice, and this is a littlebit more advanced level than
(50:30):
somebody just kinda steppinginto this. But, you get to
notice those little nuances andand learn how to you know, in
somatic experiencing, they theytalk about something called,
like, pendulation. Right?
So you, you know, you it's notjust about always being at full
throttle, right, and pushing ouredge like that. It's like, can
(50:50):
you lean into that edge, comeback out of it, lean into it,
and, you know, you kind ofexpand slowly over time. And I I
I think that's how we cultivateboth the kind of masculine and
the feminine within us. Right?Those there there's like an
interplay between those two thatallows each one to develop in
(51:13):
its own way.
They kind of keep expanding outif there's awareness to both of
them. And so it's like themasculine might be more that,
like, push. Let's go. Let'slet's do this. Right?
Timothy Bish (51:23):
Mhmm.
Soma Miller (51:23):
And the feminine is more like, hey. Wait. Hold on.
Is this safe? Like, can I gothere?
Can I open? Right? So it's kindadancing between those two. And I
think as men, we need to todevelop both of those capacities
so that we can, you know, leadourselves well into healing,
into more depth, into moreexpansion, but also be able to
(51:44):
bring that leadership to ourrelationships.
Eric Bomyea (51:46):
I I love it. It's got me thinking of the the
visual of the clutch. Right?Like, the throttle or the clutch
of, like, you know, with a caror a motorcycle. Right?
It's being able to, like like,find that that tension, right,
of, like, you know, when toaccelerate, when to pull it
back, and kind of just that thatdance that happens there. So
Mhmm. Love hearing. Yeah.
Soma Miller (52:05):
What a
Timothy Bish (52:06):
great description of the human experience. It's
interesting because we thinkabout when I think about the
ocean and how sometimes it cansort of, like, gently ebb and
flow, other times how it can beso powerful. And we never, we
never have, like, a fear ofjudgment where I sometimes feel
men in their pursuit ofunderstanding this balance that
(52:27):
we're talking about, fear theperception of weakness, fear the
perception of gayness or or orqueerness at times. But if we if
we could release that a littlebit, then we would start to
recognize, oh, it really is anebb and flow, and I never call
the tide weak, you know, or thecurrent. Anyway, that was a well
(52:50):
said.
Thank you. Beautifully said.
Soma Miller (52:54):
Yeah. Alright. Is
Eric Bomyea (52:56):
there any final thoughts? How are you feeling?
Are you feeling complete?
Timothy Bish (52:59):
I just wanna say thank you so much for coming and
having this conversation withus. It's been an absolute
pleasure, and I can't wait tohave numerous more conversations
with you, but, hopefully, also,share a a physical space at some
time, come to a workshop, or,you know Mhmm. Been great having
you.
Soma Miller (53:15):
Yeah. It's been a I I I love where the conversation
has gone. It's really beenenjoyable, and, you know, I look
forward to to further sharing.
Eric Bomyea (53:23):
Beautiful. Thank you so much. Tim, will you take
us out, please?
Timothy Bish (53:25):
I absolutely will. Let's close our eyes, allow
ourselves to settle. And as wedo settle into appreciation and
gratitude appreciation andgratitude for this sacred space
for this conversation, for anyinsights, awarenesses that came,
any takeaways or nuggets of goldthat we will hold on to. And in
(53:50):
this moment now, we release thearchetypes and the spirits. And
with these words, our containeris open, but not broken.
Uh-huh.
Soma Miller (54:01):
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Timothy Bish (54:05):
Thank you so much for joining us here in the
circle. If you'd like to stayconnected to us between
episodes, please follow us onInstagram at queer men's
embodiment. Like, subscribe,rate, and review wherever you
find podcasts. And as we leavenow, I wish you brotherhood,
connection, authenticity,vulnerability, safety, and love.
(54:27):
And with these words, ourcontainer is open but not
broken.
Uho.
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