September 18, 2025 • 49 mins
What does it mean to truly nourish someone—body and soul? Chef Ava Malazian joins us to explore cooking as a sacred practice, where structure creates safety and play brings the meal to life. We talk about scanning the room with love (not fear), setting intentions for others and for ourselves, and how mastery lets the right-brain “dance” in the kitchen.
From reiki-through-hands to grocery-store scavenger hunts, Ava shows how food becomes “the perfume of the elixir” that keeps working long after the plates are cleared. We also get practical: build strength to support your craft, choose the feeling you want now, and bring reciprocity to every act of service. Come hungry—leave resourced.
Chapter Markers
00:00 – Welcome & Why Nourishment Matters in Men’s Work
Eric frames the episode for queer men’s embodiment, introducing Chef Ava and the idea of nourishment as devotion within retreat containers and embodiment practices.
01:02 – Meet Chef Ava: Intuitive Cooking & Sacred Kitchen
Ava shares her process as a retreat chef—setting intention, scanning the field with love, and turning the kitchen into a somatic, sacred space for healing and community.
05:30 – Container Work: Masculine Structure, No-Leak Energy
Tim and Ava define “leaky energy,” how to hold a clear container, and why grounded masculine structure enables safety, presence, and deeper embodiment work.
10:40 – Reciprocity & Flow: The Right-Brain Dance of Cooking
From “the perfume of the elixir” to color-rich plates, Ava describes intuitive cooking as art you can eat—an embodied practice that continues to nourish after the meal.
18:30 – From Resistance to Wonder: Yin/Yang in Daily Practice
How masculine/feminine energy (yin/yang) translates beyond gender; shifting from resistance to curiosity to access presence, creativity, and somatic regulation.
24:30 – Divine Feminine & the Fertile Dark
Ava explores goddess energy (Annapurna), the creative “dark” as fertile ground, and how honoring the feminine essence elevates nourishment and men’s embodiment work.
29:20 – Motherhood, Oxytocin & Many-Body Nourishment
Food as medicine across the physical, emotional, and subtle bodies; the science–spirit bridge (oxytocin) and how love-infused meals build trust in retreat containers.
34:30 – Practical Tools: Intention, Reiki Hands, Chant & Media Hygiene
Actionable practices—heart tapping, reiki-through-hands, mantra/chant, and mindful consumption—to bring sacred attention to everyday cooking and self-care.
38:50 – Strength for Your Craft: “Huggers,” Training & Consistency
Embodied strength as capacity (not aesthetics): why training, posture, and consistency build self-trust men can feel—on the mat, in the gym, and in the kitchen.
46:30 – Blessing & Close: Scan with Love, Serve with Heart
Gratitude for community (Embodied Masculine retreats), Chef Ava’s closing blessing, and an invitation to keep practicing presence, reciprocity, and nourishment.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Bomyea (00:05):
Welcome back to The Circle, the podcast where we go
all in on men's work, embodimentpractices, and personal growth
from our career perspective. Ifyou're enjoying the show, please
be sure to share your favoriteepisode, leave us a review, and
subscribe. We have a newembodiment community open to
everyone. Like more information?Send us a message.
We'd love to hear from you. Nowon to today's show. What does it
mean to truly nourish someone?Not just their body, but their
(00:28):
soul. Today, we're joined byChef Eva, the nurturer and
natural beautifier behindembodied masculine retreats and
so many other transformativespaces.
Jeff Eva brings more than foodto the table. She brings
presence, attention, and deepintuitive love that radiates
through everything she creates.Together we explore how
nourishment can be an act ofdevotion, how cooking can become
(00:48):
a sacred practice, and whathappens when we serve with
heart, both in the kitchen andin our lives. Tim, Eva, are you
ready to go all in? Ready.
I'm ready. Alright. Let's doChef, welcome to the the circle.
How are you today?
Ava Malazian (01:03):
I'm so good. Happy to be with you two radiant
souls. Just love and adore bothof you, and I'm grateful to be
able to share this and be onyour podcast and just have this
conversation because I know it'sgonna be really juicy and loving
and supportive to thoselisteners out there.
Eric Bomyea (01:22):
Juicy like a fresh summer peach. Jeff, when we've
been on retreat together, thereis a moment when your food hits
the table and it is trulymagical. Something shifts. It's
not just that it's deliciousfood, it is deeply grounding
food and somehow emotional.What's your process when you
step into the kitchen for aretreat or when you're working
(01:44):
with your personal clients?
How do you begin to tune intopeople, what they need often
before they even know itthemselves?
Ava Malazian (01:50):
I love that question and I love that we've
shared that together as well. Itreally I I take it very
seriously and I actually, beforeI go to a retreat, I will tell
all the important people in mylife, like, you're not gonna
hear from me for the weekbecause I'm committed when I
step into the retreat to be inthe container and not to leak
(02:13):
it. And so I'm likeenergetically already just with
all of you and like somethingthat I've learned is that, you
know, like when you go out intothe wilderness. Right? And
there's that fight or fight likehere in Sedona too.
Sometimes I'm like, there's acoyote, there's a javelina, like
you have to be a little bit likeon guard. But if we turn off the
(02:34):
fight or fight, we're actuallyalways still scanning the room.
So now if we're scanning theroom without fear, we're
scanning the room with love. SoI'm watching from the moment I
get there every observation, youknow, without losing myself, you
know. So it's like I'm holdingmy container because and I don't
(02:55):
also don't walk into anykitchen, but specifically with
the men's group too, I set anintention.
I never go into the kitchen orany environment without an
intention and the extraingredient that I've added now
is that I set an intention formyself too. So that it's like a
full circle reciprocity that'shappening. So now I'm in the
(03:18):
circle. I've I'm completelycommitted to the container and
I'm watching the field not fromfear but from love. So I'm
observing.
And so that's how I begin tomerge with, like, let's just say
what you gentlemen are doing ina silent way.
Timothy Bish (03:33):
Thank you for that. My experience, because I I
think you and I have been onfive or six retreats together
now. At the end of at the end ofa meal, the group feels more
cohesive. They feel they feelkind of brought together. But
and so you just mentionedsomething that I wanna clarify
for our listeners in case I'mnot clear about trying to not be
(03:54):
leaky.
So can you talk a little bitabout what you mean? Like, what
I mean, we've talked about it onthe podcast before, like, the
idea of leaking energy. Whatdoes leaky energy mean to you,
and how do you how do you avoidthat? What is the benefit of of
being mindful of that as aconcept energetically?
Ava Malazian (04:10):
Thank you. And you could take this in any aspect of
of your life for the listeners,but the kitchen has been my
greatest teacher. So from thatpoint of view, I actually
approach it even like what likean athlete, like an athlete's
gonna go into a game. Right? Youhave to turn off every every
other switch of the externalworld so that you can have like
(04:31):
one point focus and be in theflow because that's that's where
the magic is happening andthat's where you're most present
and I really commit to beingfully present for my clients and
all of you gentlemen and I'mvery mindful of like, because
let's just say in thatenvironment, you gentlemen are
opening yourselves up to likereally deep processing work.
(04:52):
So now, if you see me and I'm acentered feminine or a centered
chef, you know, or sent thenurturer of the experience, you
trust me and also I'm holdinglike a grounded space, you know,
that's like clear. So think I'mlooking like I have a life now
that has no drama, but like, youknow, let's just say like you if
(05:14):
I was leaking some sort of likeconversation I had that was like
unpleasant or a thought that Ihad that was like future forward
that was stressing me out. Likelike, I wanna be a clear slate
for all of you in in my act ofservice, but also for me and
this practice for anyone islike, how can you potentially be
(05:37):
super super present to themoment? Because honestly, that's
really the moment is all thereis. So if you can drop all those
filters, then you can reallyfully show up.
Eric Bomyea (05:46):
And I I I love that you are setting the expectation
with your friends and your lovedones. You're saying, hey. You're
not gonna hear from me for aweek. I'm about to go do deep
work with people, and I'm aboutto braid myself into this
container. And that means meshowing up fully so that I can
be present.
(06:07):
And what I loved hearing you saywas the recent addition, your
new secret ingredient, is theintention for yourself. Because
I can see how in the capacitythat you hold, how much love you
do give out. And I love hearingthat you're reserving some of
that for yourself. And I thinkthat's what Tim is also
referencing when, how do youmonitor your leakage? And that
(06:29):
right there is a big componentof it.
By holding yourself with thesame integrity as what you're
holding for other people, Ithink that just creates a
beautiful, like you said, areciprocity of, I'm giving out
love. I'm holding enough formyself. And then we're all just
like giving and feeding to eachother in some magical way.
Timothy Bish (06:49):
Then I I just feel compelled because I'm I'm
curious. I wanna honor ourteacher, Amir Khaligi, who we we
all love. And the thing aboutI've been on so many retreats.
He is constantly drawingattention to the importance of
what it is you're bringing, notjust the substance of the food,
(07:09):
but the energy and the balanceinto the container. And I am
curious because I I know thatsome of those conversations have
happened in front of you becauseI've observed it.
I also know that some of thoseconversations have happened when
you're in a different buildingworking really hard. And I just
wanna, like I'm curious. I I Iknow you sense it, but what is
the importance of that for youin those moments of what feels
(07:33):
like pretty intense effort,Like, or a big task.
Ava Malazian (07:37):
Yeah. Well, I think that's part of the
reciprocity too. And then it'salso like, okay, so I'm
intentional about knowing thatI'm alchemizing and putting my
heart, my essence, my presence,put my magic into the food. So
then it's like really special toknow that that even though you
guys are in another room, likeyou can come back and let the
(07:57):
perfume of that elixir is likebeing felt. That is a big
reward.
Timothy Bish (08:05):
Wait, the perfume of the elixir? Yes. I mean,
that's a t shirt. Yeah. You
Eric Bomyea (08:10):
took me there. I was like, I know that perfume. I
know that elixir. It really is.It is so comforting and
nourishing to feel held in thisway.
And when I said it in the introabout the magic, I wasn't
joking. There is something.There is a shift that happens
when you enter into yourkitchen, into your domain. It is
(08:34):
light. It is love.
Energetically, can feel it. AndI had never felt that before. I
had never felt that before untilI entered into your space. And
so with your experience and inhow many settings you've done,
from family tables to high endretreats. Like, how is it to you
that food can be so healing andso magical?
Ava Malazian (08:55):
I love that. Like, I actually got little chills
because it inspires me. Feellike it's Mother Nature's
crayons. And if you notice, Iuse a lot of different different
colors. I'm very intentional.
I also because we've shoppedtogether too. Like, I don't put
things in the dirty sweaty bags.Like, every day I wanna put it
out and I actually this isanother component too that it's
very dynamic at this point.Like, I don't a 100% know what
(09:18):
I'm doing. And when I'm lookingat these vegetables in front of
me and and they're not in asweaty bag and they're looking
at me, it's it's a communal,like, energy.
It's exciting. And then thenwe're having a dialogue and and
then it's this dynamic dance.And then but then I'm also aware
of, you know, any clients butespecially the gentlemen. I'm
(09:41):
aware of like where you guys areat and maybe like I could feel
today was a little more densefor you. So like I get it I can
give you more grounding food oryou can feel today you're a
little more playful.
Like, and then but then I'm likeletting you the fruits and
vegetables and like, there'ssomething that happens that is
the most and I wanna just telleveryone like whatever you're
doing when you're in the flowstate of whatever craft you are
(10:02):
in, what has happened like onceyou master your craft, you can't
just like get on a bike and thengo on a 100 mile bike ride.
Like, so I'm talking like afterten years of maybe mastering
whatever your craft is, the leftbrain kind of shuts off. Not to
the point where I'm at a stove,it knows what to do, but like we
(10:22):
don't need to think about that,like the danger aspect. Now the
right brain, I can't and that'swhy I enjoy a lot of times being
in the kitchen in silence. Theright brain is firing off so
quickly that I can't even talkand I surrender to it.
So now I'm dancing with thefruits and the vegetables and
I'm feeling everyone and andthen and then this alchemy magic
(10:44):
happens and it to me it feels sogood too because I'm like, I
didn't think I danced like amoment in the divine and and
what wants to show up. It'sexciting.
Timothy Bish (10:55):
I love that you just said that because I've had
the experience as a yoga teachertoo. Now having done it for as
long as I've done it, sometimesthat idea of like, well, I don't
entirely know. I have a set Ihave an outline. I know so,
like, when I'm hearing you,like, I know I'm gonna make a
meal. I know I need this manydishes, but I'm in the moment
gonna decide these littledetails.
(11:15):
And so what ends up kind ofblossoming is maybe not
something you would have writtendown because you're in that
state. And I think that's areally important place to be and
and something we can all sort ofaspire to. Like, can I can I be
so felt into the moment that mycreation can be birthed from it
(11:38):
in collaboration with it? That'swhat I feel like I'm hearing. Am
I hearing you correctly?
Ava Malazian (11:41):
I love that you say that. And like so that when
I say that and I love thatyou're doing that in yoga, I
want anyone who's watching,like, whatever you're doing,
like, if you can just likestretch yourself like that. But
like it's like it's a relaxedplace. You're trusting the
moment and you're trustingyourself and then you're merging
with the group, not to the pointwhere you're losing yourself.
And then now we're in acollective dance.
And I think a lot times when Igo on into nature too and like,
(12:04):
you know, the bee goes on on theflower, it gets the pollen, the
honey hummingbird like takes alittle sip. Like, everyone's
doing their dance and it's likeit's like part of creation.
Right? And it's like, they'renot really thinking about it.
They're just doing it and beingand so that transcends to
everything we do.
Eric Bomyea (12:22):
When coming into our craft with that type of
intention, when we're looking atit as a connected experience and
an interconnected experience, itreally does allow the outcome to
be as nourishing as it isthrough the food in the kitchen.
But I love what you said, thatit can transcend the kitchen
(12:43):
into everything that we do. Whenwe lead from a place of a
disciplined craft, We have theconfidence in our craft no
matter what it is. We studiedand we've done the things so
that we can set aside ourthinking brain for a little bit.
I'm no longer thinking ascritically about my steps.
I can kind of rest in that. I'mholding my own container so that
(13:06):
it can then flow into it. Andfrom that flow, I then get to
bring out into the worldsomething beautiful that can
impact other people. And so inthe case of the kitchen, through
your skills, your experience,and then that intuitive dance
that we've danced in the kitchentogether. I've seen it.
I've witnessed it. It's fun.Chef Ava always has music going
(13:29):
on, she's like is not justdancing with the fruits and the
vegetables. She's actuallydancing and it's beautiful. It
comes out into the food thatthen creates a loving container
that we can all then rest intoand be around the table and
enjoy and be nourished by notjust food but energy.
Timothy Bish (13:46):
Well, I wanna I wanna jump in because if I
remember correctly, the dancestarts in the shopping. And if I
remember correctly, the mostsuccessful, like, pre retreat
shopping happened between thetwo of you. Am I well, now
listen. And that isn't like I'msure lots of other assistants
have been also great. Hugh, welove you, bud.
But but, like, we don't worry.But but but there was already,
(14:08):
like, an energetic sort of,like, flow, right, that that you
recently discussed. So you guysclearly have a thing that works
and and which I'm observingright now and enjoying and
savoring. But but that it it theflow state can start long before
a dish is served.
Ava Malazian (14:25):
That is so true. And, like, we we would like like
we were really taking themoment. Was really difficult.
Like that's with everything andlike, so what I I find what I've
learned in life is likeresistance is where the
suffering is. So the moment itcould be again for the
listeners, anything you resistin life.
So if came in and I'm like, ohmy god, I just traveled and now
(14:48):
I gotta get in the car and Igotta shop and these horses are
so heavy and like it's gonnatake so many hours. Like that's
resistance. And instead, like,I, you know, showed up, I didn't
know. And I think last minute,like you were able to go with
me. Like, it's like trusting,you know, what wants to unfold.
And then it's like, then itactually I'm finally, constantly
(15:08):
finding when we do this, life isexceeding the moment that I even
thought of. Like, I didn'toverthink it, but then it's now
exceeding like what I thoughtwas possible. And that's that's
like a gift. That's the gift ofI think of the divine when you
like choose to be in that space.
Timothy Bish (15:25):
And you both had a really fun time. We had so
Eric Bomyea (15:27):
much fun. And you're right. I wasn't I was not
expecting it. And there was amoment that I was like, oh gosh,
like I have to go groceryshopping. Like and this was a
specific retreat.
Like I was gonna be theparticipant. I wasn't gonna be
in leadership or anything dolike that, so I was like, oh, is
this going to take me out? And Ihad these doubts, then I was
like, just set it inside and go.Like, I love grocery shopping. I
love being in the kitchen, and Ilove Chef Ava.
(15:49):
So like, yeah, let's go. And thepart about that grocery haul
that was so fun to me
Ava Malazian (15:56):
It's a lot.
Eric Bomyea (15:57):
And there was a lot of moments. There was a lot of
moments in this grocery haul. Ihad never filled so many carts.
I felt like I was on like a gameshow. It was so much fun.
Timothy Bish (16:09):
So much fun.
Eric Bomyea (16:10):
So much fun. And like also, like, chef Ava would
put me on scavenger hunts. She'dbe like, go find this. And I
would like jump around and likefetch and forge. And it was very
fun.
Anyway, what I appreciated themost was I had recognized this
in you before, but I really sawit in this moment, is your
ability to hold a container andbe so in your masculine as a
(16:31):
chef, as a professional, andthen also to be in your feminine
so deeply as well. The flow thatyou have between the poles, to
be able to hold the space in thekitchen in a grocery store, to
keep recipes in your head, tokeep the order of ingredients
(16:51):
and what is needed and wherewe're at in the grocery list is
an impeccable holding of themasculine pole. And then to be
able to flow, to be like, oh,they don't have this ingredient?
Well, let's just, like, do this.Right?
It really is a dance that is sobeautifully held by you. And so
I would love to get some of yourreflections on feminine essence
and embodied in general.
Ava Malazian (17:12):
You know, what I've learned is that the
masculine holds the containerand the structure. And then the
feminine with it and then insideshe swirls and dances and but
she feels safe. So then she canbe playful and whimsical and
like, you know, more trusting.And then that lights I'm talking
(17:38):
about everyone has masculine andfeminine, but like, the process
is like, then then there'sadvance. It's true.
There's a dance that happens andyou can weave back and forth,
but that's both parts ofyourself being in harmony, you
know. And, yeah, that's that'swhat I can say within the
(17:58):
structure, if a man with themale and within you is the
safety then the female can play.And I remember, I I like I tell
this to my daughters too all thetime. I'm like, I'm committed to
my little girl going with me allthe way. Like, I'm play and fun
and that's where I feel like thejoy, your your heart, like a
little flutters.
And so how you can be an adult,like adulting in this world and
(18:21):
like not lose that part, I thinkis like where all the wonder is
and then and then then you'reable to like be excited that
we're talking about not beingresistant to life, but like
actually being in wonder and andyeah, like, because children do
it so well.
Timothy Bish (18:35):
So I have a question, and I'm gonna we have
a little game here at the at thepodcast, but I'm also an artist.
You're you're clearly an artist.I I was a dancer, and I'm
curious because I believe thatartists have to have to really
be able to do both. So from adance perspective, I had to
understand music, timing,counts, choreography, and then
(18:58):
allow myself to flow throughthose steps and so kind of
holding to it at the same time.I'm curious.
What do you think the culinaryarts and the and the art that
you're steeped in now, what doyou think it sharpened more? Did
it did it sharpen the thefeminine or the masculine, or
was it so equal? Because thereare there's like Eric just said,
(19:23):
both. Right? We need this amountof this or, you know, that
amount of that or it takes thisamount of time or this amount of
heat.
And then other parts whereyou're like, I'm gonna feel
into, oh, these men needsomething bright or they need
something grounded. You know? So
Ava Malazian (19:36):
Maybe this is not everyone's point of view, but I
I would say a masculine first.I've been operating in the
masculine first. The masculinehas created the structure for
me. The professionalism, the Itake myself seriously, so others
take me seriously, how I show upfor work. That's why I got it.
I know we'll talk about him heretoo, I what I also love about
working with Amir. He's verystructured, you know, and that
(20:00):
lights me up. And and maybethat's not always the that's not
the feminine's firstorientation. But I don't know.
For me, I would not be able todance and play and trust without
the container of the masculinefirst.
Otherwise, I think like formyself, I could speak. I I think
I'd just be like flighty outsidelooking at the clouds. I
(20:21):
probably wouldn't have thiscareer. And I'm not to put up
women down. I just think that'slike for me, I feel like and I
am I I think that's the secret.
Timothy Bish (20:30):
Well, honestly, I just reiterate for for
listeners, like, in in Chinesemedicine, yin and yang, there is
a necessity that both existsimultaneously. And my teachers
once told me, like, if it's 100%yin or 100% yang, then it's
dead. Like, no living thing cancan be just one. It has to be
both. I feel like that's whatI'm hearing you say.
(20:51):
Like, the the the artist can'tflow, can't art in whatever way
they do it if there isn't somestructure. And there can't be
structure if it's so tight thatthere's no room for something in
that structure.
Ava Malazian (21:04):
100%.
Eric Bomyea (21:05):
And so I'm curious because we often lovingly
reference you as like, you'rebringing in the divine feminine,
even though I'm witnessing, andTim has witnessed, and anyone
close to you has witnessed howmuch of the divine masculine you
are actually holding in thesespaces. So I'm wondering from
perspective, like, how do youhold the divine feminine in this
(21:27):
space and what is the connectionfor you between the divine
feminine and nourishmentnurturing?
Ava Malazian (21:33):
I love that question. You know, to me the
goddess represents beauty andmagic. And so, like, without
her, like that wouldn't exist,you know. So that's, she's
special and she needs to be likewhat we're talking about
protected so that she can comeout and and be in her essence.
(21:53):
And so, you know, there's thegoddess Annapurna.
She's a goddess of nourishment.So I'm very aware also too. I
set my intentions, but Iactually bring her with me. I
invite her to be with me and I Ilisten to a lot of like goddess
music. It expands my heart, butthen that's where I think that's
(22:14):
where the masculine doesn'tappear in when I'm looking at
the fruits and vegetables anddoing that dance.
That's between that's her herdoing that. And and that really
comes like from the earth likeand and this is one thing I
wanted to say too is like, somany people talk about the
darkness is like the scarything, like, oh, my dark side,
(22:35):
but actually in the fertile soilof the ground where it's wet and
moist, everything grows. Youknow, in the dark sky with the
stars spring sparkle because ofthe darkness. In the womb of the
belly, like for men, it's thehorror, your power center. For
women, it's creation.
It's dark. But so I found a waylike where it's like the
(22:59):
darkness is not scary. Like, howdo you actually like actually
step into the darkness ofcreation? We're all beauty is is
beginning and and and sparksfrom. So that's her too.
Timothy Bish (23:14):
I I do feel compelled to say because we're
talking about masculine andfeminine, we're talking about
balance, we're talking about thethe presence of them both and
their interplay, their theirtheir dancing, their weaving,
their intermingling, that thesearen't necessarily gender
specific things. Right? And soone of the examples that I think
he would be really happy for meto say is that, you know, Amir
(23:38):
has said many times that he hasa feminine emotional body. And
when we are in these retreats,once we get there, I, as a queer
man, as his sort of now, like,his most frequent right hand
lead assistant, I often feellike I'm the one holding the
masculine when Amir will allowhimself fall into his feminine
(23:58):
to under to, like, feel into thefield and do the things. And so
anyone who's listening who's newto these these terms because for
queer people, know they can be alittle scary or off putting
because they have at times beenweaponized.
So if masculine and femininefeel scary to you, recognize
that you can say yin and yang.You can say sun and moon. You
can say, any number of things. Ilike yin and yang because they
(24:20):
don't have a lot of otherCharge. Yeah.
Yeah. They don't have a charge.Exactly. Yeah. But that, like,
each of us is capable, andyou're also, like, demonstrating
this so beautifully.
We are capable of stepping intoand out of these or more into
something else. And sometimes ithappens it's like sort of it
feels like maybe it's happeningto us, but often with practice,
(24:43):
we can make conscious choices.Oh, you know what I need a
little bit more of right now? Ineed a little bit more of this
or I need a little what wouldserve this? Right?
And I feel like you
Eric Bomyea (24:51):
Being the chef for your own experience.
Timothy Bish (24:52):
Yeah. I feel like you in our retreats have really
had the ability to feel in andand start to recognize, well,
what is needed? And then youryour your capacity to ebb and
flow and kind of your magician,like, tap into the thing that is
most needed. So and for anyonewho's unclear about these terms
in listening, we can all doboth. And we can all cultivate
(25:16):
greater capacity to do both withgreater skill and nuance and
love and all of those things.
Okay.
Ava Malazian (25:23):
I love that. It's beautiful.
Eric Bomyea (25:25):
Yeah. I mean, it's it's true. Think we we are all
examples of that. Right? Like, Ithink we are leading examples of
being able to hold both andbounce between both in many of
the stories that we've bothhighlighted that.
And so I do want to swing moreinto the gender side of things
and ask you, because I heard youmention your daughters. So what
(25:48):
has being a mother taught youabout nourishment and leading
with heart both in and out ofthe kitchen?
Ava Malazian (25:54):
Well, there's something about becoming a
parent where you just like havethis selfless love for another
and like your capacity to loveis just like blown open. And you
know that you're also thesteward and caregiver of this
person especially when they'reyoung and fragile and there's
something that happens likethis, what's it, oxytocin? Like
(26:14):
you as a mother you get like awhen you're breastfeeding, which
is nurturing, you get like a hitof oxytocin and then your child
does too and like literally whenthe child comes off of you,
their face turns and it's like acomplete bliss. So it's like the
hormones, like you, they becomeso interconnected with this
(26:36):
another being where there's it'sso symbiotic and so, I don't
know, just so much love to give.Yeah.
It's beyond and, you know what,I remember one time Amir, this
is like one of the retreats too,like, he took the men out for
(26:56):
hiking and it was like, he hadthem fasting and I think it was
a hot day and a hard hike andhe's like, he's like, men, feel
the earth. Like, let her receiveyou, like be with her. And then
I was, you know, in the kitchenlike, you know, like being
excited to nurture all of youjust in the flow And then and
(27:17):
then he came back and he's like,and this isn't just for me. It
could be for any one that'sholding like space of
nourishment. Right?
But he's like like, let now theearth that you saw, let her food
be the earth that gives back toyou. I thought that was so
beautiful.
Timothy Bish (27:30):
You also said something that I I kinda wanna
chat about for a second. Youwere talking about the
connection with your childduring breastfeeding and
oxytocin. And I think sometimesin spiritual personal growth
spaces, we can think of theseideas as up and intangible. And
(27:50):
I feel like what you weredescribing is the many layered
components of these ideas. Sothe idea that, well, if
oxytocin, which is known sort ofas the love neurotransmitter,
you know, the love hormone, yes,science could say, well, you
just had oxytocin.
That's why you feel that way. Tome, it feels like, no. It is it
(28:11):
is the physical, like, earthycomponent of this thing that
spans the the entirety of our ofour human spiritual experience.
And I'm getting so it's
Eric Bomyea (28:23):
yogic Let's go.
Timothy Bish (28:24):
It's like the yogic idea of all the bodies.
Right? The physical body, theenergetic body, the mental body,
the intellectual body, the blissbody. And it's like most of
those bodies I can't touch theway I can touch my physical
body. So so I feel like you'retalking about that.
Like, well, oxytocin would bethe thing I could see in a
microphone or a microscope. Andit's the physical, but like but
(28:45):
it's just it's justrepresentation of this other
greater, bigger thing. Maybe I'mgetting a little excited.
Ava Malazian (28:53):
I love that.
Eric Bomyea (28:54):
I it's it is the essence of this conversation
that like nourishment happens inso many different ways. Food,
especially if we just keep thisin the realm of food, food can
absolutely just be looked at asphysical nourishment. You and I
have had this conversation. I gocrazy for food. I'm like, I love
(29:16):
being in the kitchen, I lovegoing to restaurants, I love the
texture, the taste.
Like food for me
Timothy Bish (29:21):
is like Let's order this, let's order Food is
such an
Eric Bomyea (29:24):
experience for me, and I get lit up by it. And and
Tim on the other hand is alittle bit more like food is, it
serves a purpose. Right? It's tokeep him going. Like, he's a
very active person.
You said this.
Timothy Bish (29:36):
I mean, it's true. Mean, in the context of this, I
still believe, I deeply believethat there could be like love in
food. But that's
Eric Bomyea (29:42):
where I'm You have spoken this out loud several
times that you do look at food alittle bit more like, oh, I'm
working hard, I need to refuel.Food is fuel. Right? Yeah. And I
think that what we'rediscovering is that food has the
capacity to nourish all of ourbodies.
Timothy Bish (30:02):
Yeah. Just just for the listeners, I have pretty
intense anxiety onset digestivestuff. So sometimes food has
been a really tricky componentfor me. And so although I can
recognize the food, there weremoments in my life where I'm
like, oh, I'd rather not eat soI don't get sick than to eat and
maybe get yeah. So but, yes, I Isee what you're saying.
(30:25):
Yes.
Ava Malazian (30:25):
You know, during COVID, I had these clients where
I cooked for them, but I didn'tknow who they were or I never
saw them. I cooked from thekitchen and and dropped it off,
but never met them. And what Iloved about that experience,
what it taught me is like, youcan have a relationship with
someone and be connected withsomeone just through the food
(30:47):
and and and it becomes like thisbeautiful dance. And then then I
took it a step further. So likeon these retreats or like with
you gentlemen, like, I'll feedyou, but then now I feel
connected to you and somehowlike actually, like so many of
you come and hug me and there'sso much love.
Like the food actually createdthis
Eric Bomyea (31:07):
Bond, the chemistry.
Ava Malazian (31:09):
Relationship that that that like, we're talking
about my my daughter's even thesymbiotic thing where you come
back and like like, you tastedthe love and then like I've
like, and now we're like doingthis dance and it's through the
food. Amazing.
Timothy Bish (31:22):
Well, I mean, it's a it's a great representation
of, like, food as as art. Right?So, again, it could be a dance.
It could be a painting. It'slike, make this creation, and
then I and then I give it to theworld.
And then it is vibrating evenwhen I'm not there anymore. And,
like, the impact is really,really there. And I've
(31:42):
definitely experienced that withyour food. I know some of the
some of the meals where it'slate, and so you've already
gone, but you're absolutely inthe room with us when we are
eating it. It's like that's whatyou're I wish
Ava Malazian (31:55):
I could Absolutely. Have
Eric Bomyea (31:57):
It continues to ripple even if you're not in
this space. And there issomething too about going back
to the nourishing quality of thephysical part of the food. Like
some of the practices that we doare energetically draining and
very physically draining. And soI think that you're also
(32:18):
demonstrating an ability to tuneinto that and be like, oh, these
guys just went through it. Sowe're going to bring on some
things that are a little bitmore substantive.
You said this earlier about, oh,depending on the type of
practice that they went through,it might be needing a little bit
more earthy energy or whateverit might be. So what would your
advice be about tuning into lifein general and kind of applying
(32:42):
those similar principles of like
Ava Malazian (32:44):
Yeah, I love that. And I wanna say like, you know,
for whatever it is, like thekitchen has been my greatest
teacher, but then it exudes out.So it could be whatever like,
know, with like dance or yoga,whatever you're doing, right,
you take it off the bat. Right?And that's where actually the
probably the real practices.
And so we can it's like, well,you know, and I think because I
(33:10):
wanna make sure to acknowledgeAmir like one time he said to
me, you know, the divine is sogreat that it's not our job to
know it. And and like, so I feellike sometimes so many people
take the like trying tounderstand the divine, but what
I wanna say is there's an accesspoint. And if you find your
access point into it, thenyou're in a flow, but don't
think about how it's working.Just merge with it and like that
(33:32):
can be like the dance and it'sthe dance of life and the dance
of the yin and the yang and thedance of the moment and then and
then, you know, I was talkingabout like tracking the field
because we're still tracking thefield. It's just if we're
tracking the field without thefear that we're in love and we
surrender without resistance tothe moment and it's just that's
(33:53):
recipe.
That's recipe.
Eric Bomyea (33:56):
Acknowledging the human existence of we are always
scanning the environment. It'sjust who we are.
Ava Malazian (34:02):
It's true.
Eric Bomyea (34:03):
When we can scan from a place of love, of rooted
security, where fear is not aspresent, I don't it's going be a
long journey for me personallyto get to a point where fear
doesn't enter into the room withme. But I'm learning to do more
with love and to see how thatimpacts and shapes life. And I
(34:25):
love just recognizing andacknowledging our human
existence of we are scanners.It's what we do. And so can we
bring in a little bit moreintention of like, can you scan
with love?
Can you see the field with love?
Ava Malazian (34:37):
Yeah. And wonder.
Timothy Bish (34:39):
And wonder. And wonder. So we we talked a little
bit about resistance and andwhen and when you are when
you're scanning the worldwithout fear, then then there's
love. How else might youdescribe infusing your creations
with love besides besidesintention? Are there are there
other things that you do?
(34:59):
I mean, we heard you know,because in my yogic tradition,
often, like, chanting and, like,sort of the the vibration of the
divine. How how how are someother ways that you do that?
Ava Malazian (35:10):
You know, I did like the three three level
Reiki. So it's like my hands arelike activated, I use it for the
food.
Timothy Bish (35:16):
Oh, really? I don't think I knew that.
Eric Bomyea (35:18):
That's so exciting.
Timothy Bish (35:18):
Okay. That's fun. Yeah. That's fun.
Ava Malazian (35:21):
So your heart come, like your heart actually
comes out from hands. So this islike actually a great tool.
Right? And then I like to thinkof my finger tips as little
paintbrushes or little magicfairy dust. So, that healing
energy now is being transferredfrom my heart through my hands
and so it's like my work tool,but it's my body.
(35:43):
So I'm like being embodied, butI'm in my work tool at the same
time and again, I'm talkingabout the kitchen, but where
somebody that's like a carpenteror like, you know, building, I
don't know, like working on acar or whatever it is or
massaging someone like thatintention and if you're aware of
that and it's in a way whereit's like, you're giving out but
(36:06):
like you're allowing source tocome through you and I do like
love chants chanting. Yeah.Because it feels so expensive. I
don't own a TV. I think it'sbeen eleven years.
I I choose to only like eitherlisten to spiritual music or if
I want to, the YouTube wouldjust go on there for educational
purposes. So I'm also verymindful of what I feed my mind.
(36:30):
Yeah.
Eric Bomyea (36:30):
Eleven years without a television, I'm going
to commend you for that. Andit's definitely something like I
was sitting at home today. Itwas a rainy day here in
Provincetown, and I didn't haveto go work at the kayak shop.
And I was like, well, what am Igoing to do? I actually took
time to sit and meditate, whichwas nice.
But then I fell into thetelevision trap. And then I just
had TV on, and I was like, whatam I doing? And then I got up
(36:52):
and did some work afterwards.But I really appreciate setting
that example of like, it ispossible, and it's really
important except to be mindfulof what it is you put into your
body. And that's your food, butit's also what you consume.
Consumption in general isimportant to consider what you
put in.
Timothy Bish (37:10):
I'm gonna make a little bit of a of a crazy
parallel here because you justtalked about the arms as an
extension of the heart and howthat they are your instrument.
And I've and I've heard thisbefore in in certain subtle body
traditions. As a personaltrainer and a and an owner of a
gym, you know, we talk aboutespecially, like, men and gay
men, like, we all want our pecs,our chest to be big. And I will
(37:32):
tell people, I'm like, oh,people think of this part of our
body as a pushing muscle. Isaid, but it isn't.
It's it's a hugging muscle. Theprimary movement of the pec and
when I said when I think about,like, it's our hugger. Right?
And that's that's why, like, youknow, chest fly. It's like it's
like, oh, this is how we hug.
And when I think about like, oh,because hugging is an expression
(37:54):
of our heart. It's a it's like abringing in of so then me
thinking of you in the kitchen,taking your huggers and hugging
all of the food. Right? Likelike hugging hugging all of us
with this with this extension ofyour heart energy. I know I'm
getting excited again, but I'mlike, it's just like I can
(38:14):
totally see it.
It's like it's the magic it'sthe magic wand that's coming out
of our heart anyway. So whenyou're doing chest flies, it's
your huggers.
Eric Bomyea (38:23):
Yeah. And chef Eva is quite the the physical
practitioner as well. You'reyou're a weight lifter too.
Right?
Ava Malazian (38:32):
Oh, yeah.
Eric Bomyea (38:33):
Next time.
Timothy Bish (38:34):
Yeah. Like, it was I
Ava Malazian (38:38):
know I got a lot of work out with you very
seriously. I mean, I never thinkto myself, this is the thing
about like too. I think tomyself I wanna be strong. I
never go on and think I wanna bethin. I wanna be strong and I
wanna be strong for my craft.
I wanna be strong for my life.And that's like part a part of
(38:58):
too, like, in whatever someone'sdoing, like, how can you build
your body to support what youdo? Like, I'm standing all day.
It's a lot on my back, like, soI'm working my weaker areas so I
can continue with my craft andand show up with strength.
People feel that, like, whateveryou're doing.
Like, if they can feel yourembodied strength. Right? They
(39:18):
like I don't know. You feelgood, but then they trust you
more too.
Timothy Bish (39:22):
Well, because I think strength has an essence.
And when we think about beingthin or having a certain look,
it's often because you wantsomeone else to perceive you in
a way. And I think like, well,if what I want is to be able to
going back to where we started,to show up fully. If I want the
capacity to show up fully doingthings I care about, and some of
(39:46):
those things are probablychallenging, then I need a
strength that supports that. Andthen what's interesting to me is
that, like, thin or not thin,muscular or not you know?
Like, that isn't usually thething that I find, like,
attractive or sexy in a person.It's like an essence about like,
oh, you're like you have thecapacity to be. And then that
(40:07):
usually to me feels veryattractive and that doesn't have
a specific physical component.You know what I mean? Like, I
don't care about how big yourwaist is.
That's never a thing I thinkabout. I care about how you how
you show up in front of me andhow I show
Eric Bomyea (40:23):
up in front of you. Yeah. How big is your heart and
how big is your your hugger?
Timothy Bish (40:27):
How big how big are your huggers?
Eric Bomyea (40:34):
That's what we care about here.
Ava Malazian (40:35):
That's Alright.
Eric Bomyea (40:39):
So It's t a shirt too.
Timothy Bish (40:41):
Big I is
Eric Bomyea (40:44):
don't care about the size of your package. How
big is your hugger? Finalquestion from me. What advice
would you give to someone whowants to bring more love and
intention to their everydaycooking or care practices, but
doesn't know where to start?
Ava Malazian (40:57):
It's like a again, like an intention, but I also do
like the I do the tapping andI'll tap my heart to wake it up.
And then I also will say thingslike and then also this like the
the power center too, but itactually really does work. But
then I'll say things like whatI've also found is like, how do
(41:17):
you wanna feel? Like, in everymoment, like, could think your
emotions can take you away, butthen I'll I'll remind myself,
again, this how do you wannafeel? Joyful, happy, centered,
loving.
I'm like and then I realized, ohmy gosh. Like, it's it actually
is happening. Like, I'm sayingthe words, like, why wouldn't I
feel that way? And so I thinkthat's one of the secrets is
(41:38):
actually just say the words thatyou wanna feel in the moment and
it actually brings you back inthat moment to those feelings
because then you start thinkingand forgetting about like anger
or sadness. No.
I wanna feel happy. I happy. Iwanna be feeling of service. You
know?
Timothy Bish (41:54):
I love that so much because you are reminding
us about the co creativepotential that we all have. So I
do think a lot of people, and Ihave done this myself, kind of
waiting for the experience Iwant to happen to me even if I
have great intentions and I'mgonna try to create the causes
for that thing. And what I'mhearing you say is even if you
(42:16):
wanna create the causes and dothat work, you can also decide
right now. How do I wanna feel?And I can start to participate
right now in that.
And when people who arelistening, it isn't a magic
wand. It isn't like I snap myfingers and suddenly all my
problems fall away or I don'thave any stress. But it can be
like, I can create an influence.I can add an ingredient. There
(42:39):
we go.
Ava Malazian (42:39):
Oh, yeah.
Timothy Bish (42:40):
I can add an ingredient to this recipe that
can have an impact on it, andand that, I think, is part of
our spiritual work. To start torecognize our co creative
collaborative capacity cocreative collaborative capacity
in our lives, and then how thatcan ripple out.
Ava Malazian (42:58):
I love that.
Eric Bomyea (43:00):
Creative collaborative capacity. That's a
t shirt too, I think. Totallyis. And the reps that it takes
to expand that capacity and thefuel that it takes to nourish
yourself to put in those reps toexpand your capacity.
Ava Malazian (43:18):
Yeah. And you know, too, like, noticed that
what it says to me is what itbecomes for myself, what it says
to me and others and like, isdiscipline and consistency. So
if, like, I'm consistent with mywork, but I'm consistent with my
workouts, like, now you'reseeing you're experiencing
mental discipline is not havinga physical external showcase or
(43:42):
you can have an externalshowcase of of a mental
discipline, but you you have tohave a mental discipline to show
up every day to do that. So thatwhat it always says to me is
like that person like isdedicated and they show up. But,
and then you allow that if youstart to do that for yourself,
it's not about what other peopleare doing, like, like you feel
so good about yourself when youlike actually are consistent and
(44:03):
and just when it goes in everyarea of your life.
It, you know, you show up, youstart showing up better.
Timothy Bish (44:10):
Yeah. Well, Carolyn Mays has a quote that
has impacted me since I likefirst heard it, which is one of
the primary ways that we buildself esteem is by upholding the
commitments we make toourselves. And I feel like
you're indicating that, like, Iif a person who upholds the
commitments they make tothemselves, they show up in a
(44:31):
particular way, in a strong,powerful way, and then it and
then it emanates, and we cantrust it. It's like that
strength you were talking about.Oh, you're willing you're
willing to show up for yourself.
Even on the days where you don'twanna do it, that has an essence
that I can trust and feel safewith.
Ava Malazian (44:47):
Yeah.
Timothy Bish (44:47):
Yeah. Am I hearing you right?
Ava Malazian (44:49):
Yeah. A 100%.
Timothy Bish (44:50):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Ava Malazian (44:50):
Yeah. And I remember too on the retreat,
told you, I said, just yourenergy being right because we
were in the same building and Iwas like, just knowing your I
could feel your energy and likeit made me feel safe.
Timothy Bish (45:01):
Well, that was a very high compliment. I Yeah. I
mean, because I feel your energyand I wanna just take this
moment on behalf of myself, onbehalf of Abir who I know adores
you and the entire EmbodiedMasculine community, what you
have brought. You have been anessential component. And I've
been fortunate enough now tohave observed an evolution of
(45:22):
this community, and thatevolution is influenced by you
and the magic and what youbring.
So even in the moments when youhaven't been able to join us on
a retreat, what you have broughtand the the the standard that
you have brought and all of thathas influenced how we choose a
person because we know we knowit is more than just serving me
(45:46):
food. It is energetic engagementin a container. And and that
vital component, I think, wasbirthed because of because of
what you brought. So thank you.Thank you.
A 100 times thank you. Also,just really fun fact. Two of the
stones on my altar, receivedfrom you in different in
(46:07):
different blessing ceremonies,one in Woodstock and one in
Sheffield. And they they comewith me every time we do an
embodiment circle here in town.They're on my altar.
So you've also influenced inthose ways by offering those
sweet, sweet moments. So thankyou.
Ava Malazian (46:20):
Thank you. Thank you.
Eric Bomyea (46:22):
Vibrations continue to ripple. Right? That's that's
right. Round Robin. Is checkingin with everyone to see how
you're doing.
I'm feeling very complete. Andhow do you feel?
Timothy Bish (46:31):
Well, I feel like I wanna have like five more
episodes with Jeff Ava becausethis was so juicy. But in this
moment, I feel complete. I feelcomplete. And Ava.
Ava Malazian (46:41):
But I were did we mention him year enough?
Timothy Bish (46:43):
Wait. We can never mention him enough. Like, a a
powerful, powerful man, a a a aman that I would describe as a
kingmaker. And what I mean bythat is he wants so many of his
men to step into their fullness.He's not threatened.
He's not threatened. Like, he'sbeen a huge supporter of this
podcast. He's not threatenedthat we're trying to create
(47:04):
something. It's in service tohis possible goal. And that
kingmaker thing is why he's ableto create the community that
he's created and theconnections.
This conversation is happeningnow because of Amir.
Ava Malazian (47:17):
I I agree. Yeah. And I have so much respect for
him, I just wanna make sure thatanyone's following, like, I'm
fully committed to like his hiswork and I know all of us are
and like his authenticity andhis intention and his integrity.
So I I just wanna plug plug togo over to embodied masculine if
you are looking because I'm socommitted to being showing up
(47:39):
for the men that show up. And soif you're looking men out there,
if you're looking for a space toreally grow, I think it's boys
are boys, men are made, toreally grow and embody yourself
and show up with integrity.
Please go. I'm here.
Eric Bomyea (47:55):
Here, here. Yeah. With that, usually pass it off
to Tim to close this out. AndI'm wondering, would it be okay
to get a chef Eva blessing toclose this out?
Timothy Bish (48:07):
Oh, yes. Would like and this will be the first
time on our podcast. So please,I would love for you to do it if
you're open to it.
Ava Malazian (48:14):
Yeah. It's blessing the show and everyone.
Okay. So just gonna do the hearthug for our hands,
Eric Bomyea (48:23):
not get into our own heart.
Ava Malazian (48:25):
But like all the listeners out there, I hope you
felt like this love and serviceand conversation that's like who
centered you into your ownpersonal heart that you felt
some inspiration sparked a wayof being that you might wanna
practice outside of this andsending lots of love out there
(48:50):
like little magic fairy fixiedust to everyone just remind
everyone to just stay in wonder,stay in magic, and just trust
yourself and and trust thedivine, whatever that means to
you. I'm blessing this podcast,the Circle podcast. May it reach
(49:10):
many and these two incrediblegentlemen in their service for
all of you to feel it and for itmay it grow and expand. So with
that, I just give lots of loveand a hoe.
Timothy Bish (49:24):
A hoe.
Welcome back to The Circle, the podcast where we go
all in on men's work, embodimentpractices, and personal growth
from our career perspective. Ifyou're enjoying the show, please
be sure to share your favoriteepisode, leave us a review, and
subscribe. We have a newembodiment community open to
everyone. Like more information?Send us a message.
We'd love to hear from you. Nowon to today's show. What does it
mean to truly nourish someone?Not just their body, but their
(00:28):
soul. Today, we're joined byChef Eva, the nurturer and
natural beautifier behindembodied masculine retreats and
so many other transformativespaces.
Jeff Eva brings more than foodto the table. She brings
presence, attention, and deepintuitive love that radiates
through everything she creates.Together we explore how
nourishment can be an act ofdevotion, how cooking can become
(00:48):
a sacred practice, and whathappens when we serve with
heart, both in the kitchen andin our lives. Tim, Eva, are you
ready to go all in? Ready.
I'm ready. Alright. Let's doChef, welcome to the the circle.
How are you today?
Ava Malazian (01:03):
I'm so good. Happy to be with you two radiant
souls. Just love and adore bothof you, and I'm grateful to be
able to share this and be onyour podcast and just have this
conversation because I know it'sgonna be really juicy and loving
and supportive to thoselisteners out there.
Eric Bomyea (01:22):
Juicy like a fresh summer peach. Jeff, when we've
been on retreat together, thereis a moment when your food hits
the table and it is trulymagical. Something shifts. It's
not just that it's deliciousfood, it is deeply grounding
food and somehow emotional.What's your process when you
step into the kitchen for aretreat or when you're working
(01:44):
with your personal clients?
How do you begin to tune intopeople, what they need often
before they even know itthemselves?
Ava Malazian (01:50):
I love that question and I love that we've
shared that together as well. Itreally I I take it very
seriously and I actually, beforeI go to a retreat, I will tell
all the important people in mylife, like, you're not gonna
hear from me for the weekbecause I'm committed when I
step into the retreat to be inthe container and not to leak
(02:13):
it. And so I'm likeenergetically already just with
all of you and like somethingthat I've learned is that, you
know, like when you go out intothe wilderness. Right? And
there's that fight or fight likehere in Sedona too.
Sometimes I'm like, there's acoyote, there's a javelina, like
you have to be a little bit likeon guard. But if we turn off the
(02:34):
fight or fight, we're actuallyalways still scanning the room.
So now if we're scanning theroom without fear, we're
scanning the room with love. SoI'm watching from the moment I
get there every observation, youknow, without losing myself, you
know. So it's like I'm holdingmy container because and I don't
(02:55):
also don't walk into anykitchen, but specifically with
the men's group too, I set anintention.
I never go into the kitchen orany environment without an
intention and the extraingredient that I've added now
is that I set an intention formyself too. So that it's like a
full circle reciprocity that'shappening. So now I'm in the
(03:18):
circle. I've I'm completelycommitted to the container and
I'm watching the field not fromfear but from love. So I'm
observing.
And so that's how I begin tomerge with, like, let's just say
what you gentlemen are doing ina silent way.
Timothy Bish (03:33):
Thank you for that. My experience, because I I
think you and I have been onfive or six retreats together
now. At the end of at the end ofa meal, the group feels more
cohesive. They feel they feelkind of brought together. But
and so you just mentionedsomething that I wanna clarify
for our listeners in case I'mnot clear about trying to not be
(03:54):
leaky.
So can you talk a little bitabout what you mean? Like, what
I mean, we've talked about it onthe podcast before, like, the
idea of leaking energy. Whatdoes leaky energy mean to you,
and how do you how do you avoidthat? What is the benefit of of
being mindful of that as aconcept energetically?
Ava Malazian (04:10):
Thank you. And you could take this in any aspect of
of your life for the listeners,but the kitchen has been my
greatest teacher. So from thatpoint of view, I actually
approach it even like what likean athlete, like an athlete's
gonna go into a game. Right? Youhave to turn off every every
other switch of the externalworld so that you can have like
(04:31):
one point focus and be in theflow because that's that's where
the magic is happening andthat's where you're most present
and I really commit to beingfully present for my clients and
all of you gentlemen and I'mvery mindful of like, because
let's just say in thatenvironment, you gentlemen are
opening yourselves up to likereally deep processing work.
(04:52):
So now, if you see me and I'm acentered feminine or a centered
chef, you know, or sent thenurturer of the experience, you
trust me and also I'm holdinglike a grounded space, you know,
that's like clear. So think I'mlooking like I have a life now
that has no drama, but like, youknow, let's just say like you if
(05:14):
I was leaking some sort of likeconversation I had that was like
unpleasant or a thought that Ihad that was like future forward
that was stressing me out. Likelike, I wanna be a clear slate
for all of you in in my act ofservice, but also for me and
this practice for anyone islike, how can you potentially be
(05:37):
super super present to themoment? Because honestly, that's
really the moment is all thereis. So if you can drop all those
filters, then you can reallyfully show up.
Eric Bomyea (05:46):
And I I I love that you are setting the expectation
with your friends and your lovedones. You're saying, hey. You're
not gonna hear from me for aweek. I'm about to go do deep
work with people, and I'm aboutto braid myself into this
container. And that means meshowing up fully so that I can
be present.
(06:07):
And what I loved hearing you saywas the recent addition, your
new secret ingredient, is theintention for yourself. Because
I can see how in the capacitythat you hold, how much love you
do give out. And I love hearingthat you're reserving some of
that for yourself. And I thinkthat's what Tim is also
referencing when, how do youmonitor your leakage? And that
(06:29):
right there is a big componentof it.
By holding yourself with thesame integrity as what you're
holding for other people, Ithink that just creates a
beautiful, like you said, areciprocity of, I'm giving out
love. I'm holding enough formyself. And then we're all just
like giving and feeding to eachother in some magical way.
Timothy Bish (06:49):
Then I I just feel compelled because I'm I'm
curious. I wanna honor ourteacher, Amir Khaligi, who we we
all love. And the thing aboutI've been on so many retreats.
He is constantly drawingattention to the importance of
what it is you're bringing, notjust the substance of the food,
(07:09):
but the energy and the balanceinto the container. And I am
curious because I I know thatsome of those conversations have
happened in front of you becauseI've observed it.
I also know that some of thoseconversations have happened when
you're in a different buildingworking really hard. And I just
wanna, like I'm curious. I I Iknow you sense it, but what is
the importance of that for youin those moments of what feels
(07:33):
like pretty intense effort,Like, or a big task.
Ava Malazian (07:37):
Yeah. Well, I think that's part of the
reciprocity too. And then it'salso like, okay, so I'm
intentional about knowing thatI'm alchemizing and putting my
heart, my essence, my presence,put my magic into the food. So
then it's like really special toknow that that even though you
guys are in another room, likeyou can come back and let the
(07:57):
perfume of that elixir is likebeing felt. That is a big
reward.
Timothy Bish (08:05):
Wait, the perfume of the elixir? Yes. I mean,
that's a t shirt. Yeah. You
Eric Bomyea (08:10):
took me there. I was like, I know that perfume. I
know that elixir. It really is.It is so comforting and
nourishing to feel held in thisway.
And when I said it in the introabout the magic, I wasn't
joking. There is something.There is a shift that happens
when you enter into yourkitchen, into your domain. It is
(08:34):
light. It is love.
Energetically, can feel it. AndI had never felt that before. I
had never felt that before untilI entered into your space. And
so with your experience and inhow many settings you've done,
from family tables to high endretreats. Like, how is it to you
that food can be so healing andso magical?
Ava Malazian (08:55):
I love that. Like, I actually got little chills
because it inspires me. Feellike it's Mother Nature's
crayons. And if you notice, Iuse a lot of different different
colors. I'm very intentional.
I also because we've shoppedtogether too. Like, I don't put
things in the dirty sweaty bags.Like, every day I wanna put it
out and I actually this isanother component too that it's
very dynamic at this point.Like, I don't a 100% know what
(09:18):
I'm doing. And when I'm lookingat these vegetables in front of
me and and they're not in asweaty bag and they're looking
at me, it's it's a communal,like, energy.
It's exciting. And then thenwe're having a dialogue and and
then it's this dynamic dance.And then but then I'm also aware
of, you know, any clients butespecially the gentlemen. I'm
(09:41):
aware of like where you guys areat and maybe like I could feel
today was a little more densefor you. So like I get it I can
give you more grounding food oryou can feel today you're a
little more playful.
Like, and then but then I'm likeletting you the fruits and
vegetables and like, there'ssomething that happens that is
the most and I wanna just telleveryone like whatever you're
doing when you're in the flowstate of whatever craft you are
(10:02):
in, what has happened like onceyou master your craft, you can't
just like get on a bike and thengo on a 100 mile bike ride.
Like, so I'm talking like afterten years of maybe mastering
whatever your craft is, the leftbrain kind of shuts off. Not to
the point where I'm at a stove,it knows what to do, but like we
(10:22):
don't need to think about that,like the danger aspect. Now the
right brain, I can't and that'swhy I enjoy a lot of times being
in the kitchen in silence. Theright brain is firing off so
quickly that I can't even talkand I surrender to it.
So now I'm dancing with thefruits and the vegetables and
I'm feeling everyone and andthen and then this alchemy magic
(10:44):
happens and it to me it feels sogood too because I'm like, I
didn't think I danced like amoment in the divine and and
what wants to show up. It'sexciting.
Timothy Bish (10:55):
I love that you just said that because I've had
the experience as a yoga teachertoo. Now having done it for as
long as I've done it, sometimesthat idea of like, well, I don't
entirely know. I have a set Ihave an outline. I know so,
like, when I'm hearing you,like, I know I'm gonna make a
meal. I know I need this manydishes, but I'm in the moment
gonna decide these littledetails.
(11:15):
And so what ends up kind ofblossoming is maybe not
something you would have writtendown because you're in that
state. And I think that's areally important place to be and
and something we can all sort ofaspire to. Like, can I can I be
so felt into the moment that mycreation can be birthed from it
(11:38):
in collaboration with it? That'swhat I feel like I'm hearing. Am
I hearing you correctly?
Ava Malazian (11:41):
I love that you say that. And like so that when
I say that and I love thatyou're doing that in yoga, I
want anyone who's watching,like, whatever you're doing,
like, if you can just likestretch yourself like that. But
like it's like it's a relaxedplace. You're trusting the
moment and you're trustingyourself and then you're merging
with the group, not to the pointwhere you're losing yourself.
And then now we're in acollective dance.
And I think a lot times when Igo on into nature too and like,
(12:04):
you know, the bee goes on on theflower, it gets the pollen, the
honey hummingbird like takes alittle sip. Like, everyone's
doing their dance and it's likeit's like part of creation.
Right? And it's like, they'renot really thinking about it.
They're just doing it and beingand so that transcends to
everything we do.
Eric Bomyea (12:22):
When coming into our craft with that type of
intention, when we're looking atit as a connected experience and
an interconnected experience, itreally does allow the outcome to
be as nourishing as it isthrough the food in the kitchen.
But I love what you said, thatit can transcend the kitchen
(12:43):
into everything that we do. Whenwe lead from a place of a
disciplined craft, We have theconfidence in our craft no
matter what it is. We studiedand we've done the things so
that we can set aside ourthinking brain for a little bit.
I'm no longer thinking ascritically about my steps.
I can kind of rest in that. I'mholding my own container so that
(13:06):
it can then flow into it. Andfrom that flow, I then get to
bring out into the worldsomething beautiful that can
impact other people. And so inthe case of the kitchen, through
your skills, your experience,and then that intuitive dance
that we've danced in the kitchentogether. I've seen it.
I've witnessed it. It's fun.Chef Ava always has music going
(13:29):
on, she's like is not justdancing with the fruits and the
vegetables. She's actuallydancing and it's beautiful. It
comes out into the food thatthen creates a loving container
that we can all then rest intoand be around the table and
enjoy and be nourished by notjust food but energy.
Timothy Bish (13:46):
Well, I wanna I wanna jump in because if I
remember correctly, the dancestarts in the shopping. And if I
remember correctly, the mostsuccessful, like, pre retreat
shopping happened between thetwo of you. Am I well, now
listen. And that isn't like I'msure lots of other assistants
have been also great. Hugh, welove you, bud.
But but, like, we don't worry.But but but there was already,
(14:08):
like, an energetic sort of,like, flow, right, that that you
recently discussed. So you guysclearly have a thing that works
and and which I'm observingright now and enjoying and
savoring. But but that it it theflow state can start long before
a dish is served.
Ava Malazian (14:25):
That is so true. And, like, we we would like like
we were really taking themoment. Was really difficult.
Like that's with everything andlike, so what I I find what I've
learned in life is likeresistance is where the
suffering is. So the moment itcould be again for the
listeners, anything you resistin life.
So if came in and I'm like, ohmy god, I just traveled and now
(14:48):
I gotta get in the car and Igotta shop and these horses are
so heavy and like it's gonnatake so many hours. Like that's
resistance. And instead, like,I, you know, showed up, I didn't
know. And I think last minute,like you were able to go with
me. Like, it's like trusting,you know, what wants to unfold.
And then it's like, then itactually I'm finally, constantly
(15:08):
finding when we do this, life isexceeding the moment that I even
thought of. Like, I didn'toverthink it, but then it's now
exceeding like what I thoughtwas possible. And that's that's
like a gift. That's the gift ofI think of the divine when you
like choose to be in that space.
Timothy Bish (15:25):
And you both had a really fun time. We had so
Eric Bomyea (15:27):
much fun. And you're right. I wasn't I was not
expecting it. And there was amoment that I was like, oh gosh,
like I have to go groceryshopping. Like and this was a
specific retreat.
Like I was gonna be theparticipant. I wasn't gonna be
in leadership or anything dolike that, so I was like, oh, is
this going to take me out? And Ihad these doubts, then I was
like, just set it inside and go.Like, I love grocery shopping. I
love being in the kitchen, and Ilove Chef Ava.
(15:49):
So like, yeah, let's go. And thepart about that grocery haul
that was so fun to me
Ava Malazian (15:56):
It's a lot.
Eric Bomyea (15:57):
And there was a lot of moments. There was a lot of
moments in this grocery haul. Ihad never filled so many carts.
I felt like I was on like a gameshow. It was so much fun.
Timothy Bish (16:09):
So much fun.
Eric Bomyea (16:10):
So much fun. And like also, like, chef Ava would
put me on scavenger hunts. She'dbe like, go find this. And I
would like jump around and likefetch and forge. And it was very
fun.
Anyway, what I appreciated themost was I had recognized this
in you before, but I really sawit in this moment, is your
ability to hold a container andbe so in your masculine as a
(16:31):
chef, as a professional, andthen also to be in your feminine
so deeply as well. The flow thatyou have between the poles, to
be able to hold the space in thekitchen in a grocery store, to
keep recipes in your head, tokeep the order of ingredients
(16:51):
and what is needed and wherewe're at in the grocery list is
an impeccable holding of themasculine pole. And then to be
able to flow, to be like, oh,they don't have this ingredient?
Well, let's just, like, do this.Right?
It really is a dance that is sobeautifully held by you. And so
I would love to get some of yourreflections on feminine essence
and embodied in general.
Ava Malazian (17:12):
You know, what I've learned is that the
masculine holds the containerand the structure. And then the
feminine with it and then insideshe swirls and dances and but
she feels safe. So then she canbe playful and whimsical and
like, you know, more trusting.And then that lights I'm talking
(17:38):
about everyone has masculine andfeminine, but like, the process
is like, then then there'sadvance. It's true.
There's a dance that happens andyou can weave back and forth,
but that's both parts ofyourself being in harmony, you
know. And, yeah, that's that'swhat I can say within the
(17:58):
structure, if a man with themale and within you is the
safety then the female can play.And I remember, I I like I tell
this to my daughters too all thetime. I'm like, I'm committed to
my little girl going with me allthe way. Like, I'm play and fun
and that's where I feel like thejoy, your your heart, like a
little flutters.
And so how you can be an adult,like adulting in this world and
(18:21):
like not lose that part, I thinkis like where all the wonder is
and then and then then you'reable to like be excited that
we're talking about not beingresistant to life, but like
actually being in wonder and andyeah, like, because children do
it so well.
Timothy Bish (18:35):
So I have a question, and I'm gonna we have
a little game here at the at thepodcast, but I'm also an artist.
You're you're clearly an artist.I I was a dancer, and I'm
curious because I believe thatartists have to have to really
be able to do both. So from adance perspective, I had to
understand music, timing,counts, choreography, and then
(18:58):
allow myself to flow throughthose steps and so kind of
holding to it at the same time.I'm curious.
What do you think the culinaryarts and the and the art that
you're steeped in now, what doyou think it sharpened more? Did
it did it sharpen the thefeminine or the masculine, or
was it so equal? Because thereare there's like Eric just said,
(19:23):
both. Right? We need this amountof this or, you know, that
amount of that or it takes thisamount of time or this amount of
heat.
And then other parts whereyou're like, I'm gonna feel
into, oh, these men needsomething bright or they need
something grounded. You know? So
Ava Malazian (19:36):
Maybe this is not everyone's point of view, but I
I would say a masculine first.I've been operating in the
masculine first. The masculinehas created the structure for
me. The professionalism, the Itake myself seriously, so others
take me seriously, how I show upfor work. That's why I got it.
I know we'll talk about him heretoo, I what I also love about
working with Amir. He's verystructured, you know, and that
(20:00):
lights me up. And and maybethat's not always the that's not
the feminine's firstorientation. But I don't know.
For me, I would not be able todance and play and trust without
the container of the masculinefirst.
Otherwise, I think like formyself, I could speak. I I think
I'd just be like flighty outsidelooking at the clouds. I
(20:21):
probably wouldn't have thiscareer. And I'm not to put up
women down. I just think that'slike for me, I feel like and I
am I I think that's the secret.
Timothy Bish (20:30):
Well, honestly, I just reiterate for for
listeners, like, in in Chinesemedicine, yin and yang, there is
a necessity that both existsimultaneously. And my teachers
once told me, like, if it's 100%yin or 100% yang, then it's
dead. Like, no living thing cancan be just one. It has to be
both. I feel like that's whatI'm hearing you say.
(20:51):
Like, the the the artist can'tflow, can't art in whatever way
they do it if there isn't somestructure. And there can't be
structure if it's so tight thatthere's no room for something in
that structure.
Ava Malazian (21:04):
100%.
Eric Bomyea (21:05):
And so I'm curious because we often lovingly
reference you as like, you'rebringing in the divine feminine,
even though I'm witnessing, andTim has witnessed, and anyone
close to you has witnessed howmuch of the divine masculine you
are actually holding in thesespaces. So I'm wondering from
perspective, like, how do youhold the divine feminine in this
(21:27):
space and what is the connectionfor you between the divine
feminine and nourishmentnurturing?
Ava Malazian (21:33):
I love that question. You know, to me the
goddess represents beauty andmagic. And so, like, without
her, like that wouldn't exist,you know. So that's, she's
special and she needs to be likewhat we're talking about
protected so that she can comeout and and be in her essence.
(21:53):
And so, you know, there's thegoddess Annapurna.
She's a goddess of nourishment.So I'm very aware also too. I
set my intentions, but Iactually bring her with me. I
invite her to be with me and I Ilisten to a lot of like goddess
music. It expands my heart, butthen that's where I think that's
(22:14):
where the masculine doesn'tappear in when I'm looking at
the fruits and vegetables anddoing that dance.
That's between that's her herdoing that. And and that really
comes like from the earth likeand and this is one thing I
wanted to say too is like, somany people talk about the
darkness is like the scarything, like, oh, my dark side,
(22:35):
but actually in the fertile soilof the ground where it's wet and
moist, everything grows. Youknow, in the dark sky with the
stars spring sparkle because ofthe darkness. In the womb of the
belly, like for men, it's thehorror, your power center. For
women, it's creation.
It's dark. But so I found a waylike where it's like the
(22:59):
darkness is not scary. Like, howdo you actually like actually
step into the darkness ofcreation? We're all beauty is is
beginning and and and sparksfrom. So that's her too.
Timothy Bish (23:14):
I I do feel compelled to say because we're
talking about masculine andfeminine, we're talking about
balance, we're talking about thethe presence of them both and
their interplay, their theirtheir dancing, their weaving,
their intermingling, that thesearen't necessarily gender
specific things. Right? And soone of the examples that I think
he would be really happy for meto say is that, you know, Amir
(23:38):
has said many times that he hasa feminine emotional body. And
when we are in these retreats,once we get there, I, as a queer
man, as his sort of now, like,his most frequent right hand
lead assistant, I often feellike I'm the one holding the
masculine when Amir will allowhimself fall into his feminine
(23:58):
to under to, like, feel into thefield and do the things. And so
anyone who's listening who's newto these these terms because for
queer people, know they can be alittle scary or off putting
because they have at times beenweaponized.
So if masculine and femininefeel scary to you, recognize
that you can say yin and yang.You can say sun and moon. You
can say, any number of things. Ilike yin and yang because they
(24:20):
don't have a lot of otherCharge. Yeah.
Yeah. They don't have a charge.Exactly. Yeah. But that, like,
each of us is capable, andyou're also, like, demonstrating
this so beautifully.
We are capable of stepping intoand out of these or more into
something else. And sometimes ithappens it's like sort of it
feels like maybe it's happeningto us, but often with practice,
(24:43):
we can make conscious choices.Oh, you know what I need a
little bit more of right now? Ineed a little bit more of this
or I need a little what wouldserve this? Right?
And I feel like you
Eric Bomyea (24:51):
Being the chef for your own experience.
Timothy Bish (24:52):
Yeah. I feel like you in our retreats have really
had the ability to feel in andand start to recognize, well,
what is needed? And then youryour your capacity to ebb and
flow and kind of your magician,like, tap into the thing that is
most needed. So and for anyonewho's unclear about these terms
in listening, we can all doboth. And we can all cultivate
(25:16):
greater capacity to do both withgreater skill and nuance and
love and all of those things.
Okay.
Ava Malazian (25:23):
I love that. It's beautiful.
Eric Bomyea (25:25):
Yeah. I mean, it's it's true. Think we we are all
examples of that. Right? Like, Ithink we are leading examples of
being able to hold both andbounce between both in many of
the stories that we've bothhighlighted that.
And so I do want to swing moreinto the gender side of things
and ask you, because I heard youmention your daughters. So what
(25:48):
has being a mother taught youabout nourishment and leading
with heart both in and out ofthe kitchen?
Ava Malazian (25:54):
Well, there's something about becoming a
parent where you just like havethis selfless love for another
and like your capacity to loveis just like blown open. And you
know that you're also thesteward and caregiver of this
person especially when they'reyoung and fragile and there's
something that happens likethis, what's it, oxytocin? Like
(26:14):
you as a mother you get like awhen you're breastfeeding, which
is nurturing, you get like a hitof oxytocin and then your child
does too and like literally whenthe child comes off of you,
their face turns and it's like acomplete bliss. So it's like the
hormones, like you, they becomeso interconnected with this
(26:36):
another being where there's it'sso symbiotic and so, I don't
know, just so much love to give.Yeah.
It's beyond and, you know what,I remember one time Amir, this
is like one of the retreats too,like, he took the men out for
(26:56):
hiking and it was like, he hadthem fasting and I think it was
a hot day and a hard hike andhe's like, he's like, men, feel
the earth. Like, let her receiveyou, like be with her. And then
I was, you know, in the kitchenlike, you know, like being
excited to nurture all of youjust in the flow And then and
(27:17):
then he came back and he's like,and this isn't just for me. It
could be for any one that'sholding like space of
nourishment. Right?
But he's like like, let now theearth that you saw, let her food
be the earth that gives back toyou. I thought that was so
beautiful.
Timothy Bish (27:30):
You also said something that I I kinda wanna
chat about for a second. Youwere talking about the
connection with your childduring breastfeeding and
oxytocin. And I think sometimesin spiritual personal growth
spaces, we can think of theseideas as up and intangible. And
(27:50):
I feel like what you weredescribing is the many layered
components of these ideas. Sothe idea that, well, if
oxytocin, which is known sort ofas the love neurotransmitter,
you know, the love hormone, yes,science could say, well, you
just had oxytocin.
That's why you feel that way. Tome, it feels like, no. It is it
(28:11):
is the physical, like, earthycomponent of this thing that
spans the the entirety of our ofour human spiritual experience.
And I'm getting so it's
Eric Bomyea (28:23):
yogic Let's go.
Timothy Bish (28:24):
It's like the yogic idea of all the bodies.
Right? The physical body, theenergetic body, the mental body,
the intellectual body, the blissbody. And it's like most of
those bodies I can't touch theway I can touch my physical
body. So so I feel like you'retalking about that.
Like, well, oxytocin would bethe thing I could see in a
microphone or a microscope. Andit's the physical, but like but
(28:45):
it's just it's justrepresentation of this other
greater, bigger thing. Maybe I'mgetting a little excited.
Ava Malazian (28:53):
I love that.
Eric Bomyea (28:54):
I it's it is the essence of this conversation
that like nourishment happens inso many different ways. Food,
especially if we just keep thisin the realm of food, food can
absolutely just be looked at asphysical nourishment. You and I
have had this conversation. I gocrazy for food. I'm like, I love
(29:16):
being in the kitchen, I lovegoing to restaurants, I love the
texture, the taste.
Like food for me
Timothy Bish (29:21):
is like Let's order this, let's order Food is
such an
Eric Bomyea (29:24):
experience for me, and I get lit up by it. And and
Tim on the other hand is alittle bit more like food is, it
serves a purpose. Right? It's tokeep him going. Like, he's a
very active person.
You said this.
Timothy Bish (29:36):
I mean, it's true. Mean, in the context of this, I
still believe, I deeply believethat there could be like love in
food. But that's
Eric Bomyea (29:42):
where I'm You have spoken this out loud several
times that you do look at food alittle bit more like, oh, I'm
working hard, I need to refuel.Food is fuel. Right? Yeah. And I
think that what we'rediscovering is that food has the
capacity to nourish all of ourbodies.
Timothy Bish (30:02):
Yeah. Just just for the listeners, I have pretty
intense anxiety onset digestivestuff. So sometimes food has
been a really tricky componentfor me. And so although I can
recognize the food, there weremoments in my life where I'm
like, oh, I'd rather not eat soI don't get sick than to eat and
maybe get yeah. So but, yes, I Isee what you're saying.
(30:25):
Yes.
Ava Malazian (30:25):
You know, during COVID, I had these clients where
I cooked for them, but I didn'tknow who they were or I never
saw them. I cooked from thekitchen and and dropped it off,
but never met them. And what Iloved about that experience,
what it taught me is like, youcan have a relationship with
someone and be connected withsomeone just through the food
(30:47):
and and and it becomes like thisbeautiful dance. And then then I
took it a step further. So likeon these retreats or like with
you gentlemen, like, I'll feedyou, but then now I feel
connected to you and somehowlike actually, like so many of
you come and hug me and there'sso much love.
Like the food actually createdthis
Eric Bomyea (31:07):
Bond, the chemistry.
Ava Malazian (31:09):
Relationship that that that like, we're talking
about my my daughter's even thesymbiotic thing where you come
back and like like, you tastedthe love and then like I've
like, and now we're like doingthis dance and it's through the
food. Amazing.
Timothy Bish (31:22):
Well, I mean, it's a it's a great representation
of, like, food as as art. Right?So, again, it could be a dance.
It could be a painting. It'slike, make this creation, and
then I and then I give it to theworld.
And then it is vibrating evenwhen I'm not there anymore. And,
like, the impact is really,really there. And I've
(31:42):
definitely experienced that withyour food. I know some of the
some of the meals where it'slate, and so you've already
gone, but you're absolutely inthe room with us when we are
eating it. It's like that's whatyou're I wish
Ava Malazian (31:55):
I could Absolutely. Have
Eric Bomyea (31:57):
It continues to ripple even if you're not in
this space. And there issomething too about going back
to the nourishing quality of thephysical part of the food. Like
some of the practices that we doare energetically draining and
very physically draining. And soI think that you're also
(32:18):
demonstrating an ability to tuneinto that and be like, oh, these
guys just went through it. Sowe're going to bring on some
things that are a little bitmore substantive.
You said this earlier about, oh,depending on the type of
practice that they went through,it might be needing a little bit
more earthy energy or whateverit might be. So what would your
advice be about tuning into lifein general and kind of applying
(32:42):
those similar principles of like
Ava Malazian (32:44):
Yeah, I love that. And I wanna say like, you know,
for whatever it is, like thekitchen has been my greatest
teacher, but then it exudes out.So it could be whatever like,
know, with like dance or yoga,whatever you're doing, right,
you take it off the bat. Right?And that's where actually the
probably the real practices.
And so we can it's like, well,you know, and I think because I
(33:10):
wanna make sure to acknowledgeAmir like one time he said to
me, you know, the divine is sogreat that it's not our job to
know it. And and like, so I feellike sometimes so many people
take the like trying tounderstand the divine, but what
I wanna say is there's an accesspoint. And if you find your
access point into it, thenyou're in a flow, but don't
think about how it's working.Just merge with it and like that
(33:32):
can be like the dance and it'sthe dance of life and the dance
of the yin and the yang and thedance of the moment and then and
then, you know, I was talkingabout like tracking the field
because we're still tracking thefield. It's just if we're
tracking the field without thefear that we're in love and we
surrender without resistance tothe moment and it's just that's
(33:53):
recipe.
That's recipe.
Eric Bomyea (33:56):
Acknowledging the human existence of we are always
scanning the environment. It'sjust who we are.
Ava Malazian (34:02):
It's true.
Eric Bomyea (34:03):
When we can scan from a place of love, of rooted
security, where fear is not aspresent, I don't it's going be a
long journey for me personallyto get to a point where fear
doesn't enter into the room withme. But I'm learning to do more
with love and to see how thatimpacts and shapes life. And I
(34:25):
love just recognizing andacknowledging our human
existence of we are scanners.It's what we do. And so can we
bring in a little bit moreintention of like, can you scan
with love?
Can you see the field with love?
Ava Malazian (34:37):
Yeah. And wonder.
Timothy Bish (34:39):
And wonder. And wonder. So we we talked a little
bit about resistance and andwhen and when you are when
you're scanning the worldwithout fear, then then there's
love. How else might youdescribe infusing your creations
with love besides besidesintention? Are there are there
other things that you do?
(34:59):
I mean, we heard you know,because in my yogic tradition,
often, like, chanting and, like,sort of the the vibration of the
divine. How how how are someother ways that you do that?
Ava Malazian (35:10):
You know, I did like the three three level
Reiki. So it's like my hands arelike activated, I use it for the
food.
Timothy Bish (35:16):
Oh, really? I don't think I knew that.
Eric Bomyea (35:18):
That's so exciting.
Timothy Bish (35:18):
Okay. That's fun. Yeah. That's fun.
Ava Malazian (35:21):
So your heart come, like your heart actually
comes out from hands. So this islike actually a great tool.
Right? And then I like to thinkof my finger tips as little
paintbrushes or little magicfairy dust. So, that healing
energy now is being transferredfrom my heart through my hands
and so it's like my work tool,but it's my body.
(35:43):
So I'm like being embodied, butI'm in my work tool at the same
time and again, I'm talkingabout the kitchen, but where
somebody that's like a carpenteror like, you know, building, I
don't know, like working on acar or whatever it is or
massaging someone like thatintention and if you're aware of
that and it's in a way whereit's like, you're giving out but
(36:06):
like you're allowing source tocome through you and I do like
love chants chanting. Yeah.Because it feels so expensive. I
don't own a TV. I think it'sbeen eleven years.
I I choose to only like eitherlisten to spiritual music or if
I want to, the YouTube wouldjust go on there for educational
purposes. So I'm also verymindful of what I feed my mind.
(36:30):
Yeah.
Eric Bomyea (36:30):
Eleven years without a television, I'm going
to commend you for that. Andit's definitely something like I
was sitting at home today. Itwas a rainy day here in
Provincetown, and I didn't haveto go work at the kayak shop.
And I was like, well, what am Igoing to do? I actually took
time to sit and meditate, whichwas nice.
But then I fell into thetelevision trap. And then I just
had TV on, and I was like, whatam I doing? And then I got up
(36:52):
and did some work afterwards.But I really appreciate setting
that example of like, it ispossible, and it's really
important except to be mindfulof what it is you put into your
body. And that's your food, butit's also what you consume.
Consumption in general isimportant to consider what you
put in.
Timothy Bish (37:10):
I'm gonna make a little bit of a of a crazy
parallel here because you justtalked about the arms as an
extension of the heart and howthat they are your instrument.
And I've and I've heard thisbefore in in certain subtle body
traditions. As a personaltrainer and a and an owner of a
gym, you know, we talk aboutespecially, like, men and gay
men, like, we all want our pecs,our chest to be big. And I will
(37:32):
tell people, I'm like, oh,people think of this part of our
body as a pushing muscle. Isaid, but it isn't.
It's it's a hugging muscle. Theprimary movement of the pec and
when I said when I think about,like, it's our hugger. Right?
And that's that's why, like, youknow, chest fly. It's like it's
like, oh, this is how we hug.
And when I think about like, oh,because hugging is an expression
(37:54):
of our heart. It's a it's like abringing in of so then me
thinking of you in the kitchen,taking your huggers and hugging
all of the food. Right? Likelike hugging hugging all of us
with this with this extension ofyour heart energy. I know I'm
getting excited again, but I'mlike, it's just like I can
(38:14):
totally see it.
It's like it's the magic it'sthe magic wand that's coming out
of our heart anyway. So whenyou're doing chest flies, it's
your huggers.
Eric Bomyea (38:23):
Yeah. And chef Eva is quite the the physical
practitioner as well. You'reyou're a weight lifter too.
Right?
Ava Malazian (38:32):
Oh, yeah.
Eric Bomyea (38:33):
Next time.
Timothy Bish (38:34):
Yeah. Like, it was I
Ava Malazian (38:38):
know I got a lot of work out with you very
seriously. I mean, I never thinkto myself, this is the thing
about like too. I think tomyself I wanna be strong. I
never go on and think I wanna bethin. I wanna be strong and I
wanna be strong for my craft.
I wanna be strong for my life.And that's like part a part of
(38:58):
too, like, in whatever someone'sdoing, like, how can you build
your body to support what youdo? Like, I'm standing all day.
It's a lot on my back, like, soI'm working my weaker areas so I
can continue with my craft andand show up with strength.
People feel that, like, whateveryou're doing.
Like, if they can feel yourembodied strength. Right? They
(39:18):
like I don't know. You feelgood, but then they trust you
more too.
Timothy Bish (39:22):
Well, because I think strength has an essence.
And when we think about beingthin or having a certain look,
it's often because you wantsomeone else to perceive you in
a way. And I think like, well,if what I want is to be able to
going back to where we started,to show up fully. If I want the
capacity to show up fully doingthings I care about, and some of
(39:46):
those things are probablychallenging, then I need a
strength that supports that. Andthen what's interesting to me is
that, like, thin or not thin,muscular or not you know?
Like, that isn't usually thething that I find, like,
attractive or sexy in a person.It's like an essence about like,
oh, you're like you have thecapacity to be. And then that
(40:07):
usually to me feels veryattractive and that doesn't have
a specific physical component.You know what I mean? Like, I
don't care about how big yourwaist is.
That's never a thing I thinkabout. I care about how you how
you show up in front of me andhow I show
Eric Bomyea (40:23):
up in front of you. Yeah. How big is your heart and
how big is your your hugger?
Timothy Bish (40:27):
How big how big are your huggers?
Eric Bomyea (40:34):
That's what we care about here.
Ava Malazian (40:35):
That's Alright.
Eric Bomyea (40:39):
So It's t a shirt too.
Timothy Bish (40:41):
Big I is
Eric Bomyea (40:44):
don't care about the size of your package. How
big is your hugger? Finalquestion from me. What advice
would you give to someone whowants to bring more love and
intention to their everydaycooking or care practices, but
doesn't know where to start?
Ava Malazian (40:57):
It's like a again, like an intention, but I also do
like the I do the tapping andI'll tap my heart to wake it up.
And then I also will say thingslike and then also this like the
the power center too, but itactually really does work. But
then I'll say things like whatI've also found is like, how do
(41:17):
you wanna feel? Like, in everymoment, like, could think your
emotions can take you away, butthen I'll I'll remind myself,
again, this how do you wannafeel? Joyful, happy, centered,
loving.
I'm like and then I realized, ohmy gosh. Like, it's it actually
is happening. Like, I'm sayingthe words, like, why wouldn't I
feel that way? And so I thinkthat's one of the secrets is
(41:38):
actually just say the words thatyou wanna feel in the moment and
it actually brings you back inthat moment to those feelings
because then you start thinkingand forgetting about like anger
or sadness. No.
I wanna feel happy. I happy. Iwanna be feeling of service. You
know?
Timothy Bish (41:54):
I love that so much because you are reminding
us about the co creativepotential that we all have. So I
do think a lot of people, and Ihave done this myself, kind of
waiting for the experience Iwant to happen to me even if I
have great intentions and I'mgonna try to create the causes
for that thing. And what I'mhearing you say is even if you
(42:16):
wanna create the causes and dothat work, you can also decide
right now. How do I wanna feel?And I can start to participate
right now in that.
And when people who arelistening, it isn't a magic
wand. It isn't like I snap myfingers and suddenly all my
problems fall away or I don'thave any stress. But it can be
like, I can create an influence.I can add an ingredient. There
(42:39):
we go.
Ava Malazian (42:39):
Oh, yeah.
Timothy Bish (42:40):
I can add an ingredient to this recipe that
can have an impact on it, andand that, I think, is part of
our spiritual work. To start torecognize our co creative
collaborative capacity cocreative collaborative capacity
in our lives, and then how thatcan ripple out.
Ava Malazian (42:58):
I love that.
Eric Bomyea (43:00):
Creative collaborative capacity. That's a
t shirt too, I think. Totallyis. And the reps that it takes
to expand that capacity and thefuel that it takes to nourish
yourself to put in those reps toexpand your capacity.
Ava Malazian (43:18):
Yeah. And you know, too, like, noticed that
what it says to me is what itbecomes for myself, what it says
to me and others and like, isdiscipline and consistency. So
if, like, I'm consistent with mywork, but I'm consistent with my
workouts, like, now you'reseeing you're experiencing
mental discipline is not havinga physical external showcase or
(43:42):
you can have an externalshowcase of of a mental
discipline, but you you have tohave a mental discipline to show
up every day to do that. So thatwhat it always says to me is
like that person like isdedicated and they show up. But,
and then you allow that if youstart to do that for yourself,
it's not about what other peopleare doing, like, like you feel
so good about yourself when youlike actually are consistent and
(44:03):
and just when it goes in everyarea of your life.
It, you know, you show up, youstart showing up better.
Timothy Bish (44:10):
Yeah. Well, Carolyn Mays has a quote that
has impacted me since I likefirst heard it, which is one of
the primary ways that we buildself esteem is by upholding the
commitments we make toourselves. And I feel like
you're indicating that, like, Iif a person who upholds the
commitments they make tothemselves, they show up in a
(44:31):
particular way, in a strong,powerful way, and then it and
then it emanates, and we cantrust it. It's like that
strength you were talking about.Oh, you're willing you're
willing to show up for yourself.
Even on the days where you don'twanna do it, that has an essence
that I can trust and feel safewith.
Ava Malazian (44:47):
Yeah.
Timothy Bish (44:47):
Yeah. Am I hearing you right?
Ava Malazian (44:49):
Yeah. A 100%.
Timothy Bish (44:50):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Ava Malazian (44:50):
Yeah. And I remember too on the retreat,
told you, I said, just yourenergy being right because we
were in the same building and Iwas like, just knowing your I
could feel your energy and likeit made me feel safe.
Timothy Bish (45:01):
Well, that was a very high compliment. I Yeah. I
mean, because I feel your energyand I wanna just take this
moment on behalf of myself, onbehalf of Abir who I know adores
you and the entire EmbodiedMasculine community, what you
have brought. You have been anessential component. And I've
been fortunate enough now tohave observed an evolution of
(45:22):
this community, and thatevolution is influenced by you
and the magic and what youbring.
So even in the moments when youhaven't been able to join us on
a retreat, what you have broughtand the the the standard that
you have brought and all of thathas influenced how we choose a
person because we know we knowit is more than just serving me
(45:46):
food. It is energetic engagementin a container. And and that
vital component, I think, wasbirthed because of because of
what you brought. So thank you.Thank you.
A 100 times thank you. Also,just really fun fact. Two of the
stones on my altar, receivedfrom you in different in
(46:07):
different blessing ceremonies,one in Woodstock and one in
Sheffield. And they they comewith me every time we do an
embodiment circle here in town.They're on my altar.
So you've also influenced inthose ways by offering those
sweet, sweet moments. So thankyou.
Ava Malazian (46:20):
Thank you. Thank you.
Eric Bomyea (46:22):
Vibrations continue to ripple. Right? That's that's
right. Round Robin. Is checkingin with everyone to see how
you're doing.
I'm feeling very complete. Andhow do you feel?
Timothy Bish (46:31):
Well, I feel like I wanna have like five more
episodes with Jeff Ava becausethis was so juicy. But in this
moment, I feel complete. I feelcomplete. And Ava.
Ava Malazian (46:41):
But I were did we mention him year enough?
Timothy Bish (46:43):
Wait. We can never mention him enough. Like, a a
powerful, powerful man, a a a aman that I would describe as a
kingmaker. And what I mean bythat is he wants so many of his
men to step into their fullness.He's not threatened.
He's not threatened. Like, he'sbeen a huge supporter of this
podcast. He's not threatenedthat we're trying to create
(47:04):
something. It's in service tohis possible goal. And that
kingmaker thing is why he's ableto create the community that
he's created and theconnections.
This conversation is happeningnow because of Amir.
Ava Malazian (47:17):
I I agree. Yeah. And I have so much respect for
him, I just wanna make sure thatanyone's following, like, I'm
fully committed to like his hiswork and I know all of us are
and like his authenticity andhis intention and his integrity.
So I I just wanna plug plug togo over to embodied masculine if
you are looking because I'm socommitted to being showing up
(47:39):
for the men that show up. And soif you're looking men out there,
if you're looking for a space toreally grow, I think it's boys
are boys, men are made, toreally grow and embody yourself
and show up with integrity.
Please go. I'm here.
Eric Bomyea (47:55):
Here, here. Yeah. With that, usually pass it off
to Tim to close this out. AndI'm wondering, would it be okay
to get a chef Eva blessing toclose this out?
Timothy Bish (48:07):
Oh, yes. Would like and this will be the first
time on our podcast. So please,I would love for you to do it if
you're open to it.
Ava Malazian (48:14):
Yeah. It's blessing the show and everyone.
Okay. So just gonna do the hearthug for our hands,
Eric Bomyea (48:23):
not get into our own heart.
Ava Malazian (48:25):
But like all the listeners out there, I hope you
felt like this love and serviceand conversation that's like who
centered you into your ownpersonal heart that you felt
some inspiration sparked a wayof being that you might wanna
practice outside of this andsending lots of love out there
(48:50):
like little magic fairy fixiedust to everyone just remind
everyone to just stay in wonder,stay in magic, and just trust
yourself and and trust thedivine, whatever that means to
you. I'm blessing this podcast,the Circle podcast. May it reach
(49:10):
many and these two incrediblegentlemen in their service for
all of you to feel it and for itmay it grow and expand. So with
that, I just give lots of loveand a hoe.
Timothy Bish (49:24):
A hoe.
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