In Part 2 of our conversation with Amir Khalighi, we move from uncovering the father wound to exploring what it takes to heal it. Why are so many men with this wound quick to judge—others, themselves, and especially other men? How does hypervigilance become a way of life? And what does it take to re-father ourselves and trust again?
We talk about the lone wolf archetype, how judgment protects what we’re not ready to feel, and why healing doesn’t require reconciling with your father—but it does require showing up for yourself.
🎧 If you’ve ever struggled to ask for help, receive love, or trust other men… this conversation is for you.
🔗 Learn more about Amir’s upcoming free workshop on Healing the Father Wound: https://embodiedmasculine.com/healing-the-father-wound/
Full Episode Time Markers
00:00 – Welcome back & episode setup
02:05 – How to know if you carry a father wound
05:45 – Hypervigilance and nervous system regulation
09:50 – The lone wolf archetype and self-isolation
14:15 – What we miss without a present father figure
18:22 – Re-fathering yourself as an adult man
22:03 – The power of safe containers in men’s work
27:45 – Why judgment blocks healing
33:10 – Amir’s story: somatic reconnection with his father
39:20 – Healing the wound without needing reconciliation
42:30 – Projecting the father wound onto other men & leaders
48:00 – Tim’s story: transformation through trust
53:20 – How healing shifts generational lines
57:45 – Breaking the sound barrier: a metaphor for inner work
1:00:40 – Presence as true power
1:03:55 – How to take your rightful place in your lineage
1:07:10 – Resources, workshops, and how to begin
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Bomyea (00:06):
Welcome back to The Circle. In our last episode with
Amir Khaligi, we opened up theconversation around the father
wound, how absent or emotionallydistanced fathers can quietly
shape the way we trust, feel,and show up in the world. But
what happens once we realize thewound is there? In part two of
our conversation, Amir returnsto help us explore what it
actually takes to face thefather wound, and why so many of
(00:26):
us get stuck along the way tohealing it. We look at how this
wound lives in the body andshapes our relationships, and
what becomes possible when westop trying to navigate it
alone.
Tim, Amir, are you ready to goall in?
Amir Khalighi (00:38):
Let's do it.
Tim Bish (00:39):
I'm ready.
Eric Bomyea (00:40):
Let's go. Amir, welcome back to the circle.
Amir Khalighi (00:43):
Thank you so much for inviting me back.
Eric Bomyea (00:46):
Glad to have you.
Amir Khalighi (00:46):
Appreciate it.
Eric Bomyea (00:47):
In our last conversation, we talked about
the father wound as a kind ofprimal rupture. How the absent
or emotionally distant fathercan shape our sense of safety,
force us into roles we're notquite ready for, and influence
how we move through the world.To begin today, let's recap. How
can someone begin to understandif they have a father wound, and
what are some of the things thatthey might notice first?
Amir Khalighi (01:09):
Well, again, thanks for inviting me back to
the space. I I always enjoyspending time with you both, and
I'm really proud of the workthat you're doing in the world.
So the question is, how does howdoes this father wound
masthesize and and show itselfin in day to day life? Would
(01:31):
that be sufficient? Yes.
Am I on point? Okay. I think oneof the pieces we wanna look at
here is the lone wolf syndromeor the lone wolf archetype. I
don't need anybody. I don'treally trust anybody.
(01:53):
Right? Not trusting not beingable to lean on others, not not
be able to actually lower ourvigilance in day to day life. So
if your vigilance ishypersensitive about you know,
for me, I'll give you anexample. So for me, not having
(02:17):
my father be present in my lifephysically made me feel unsafe,
like, physically. So when I wasa young child, in order to be
able to fall asleep, I would puta pretend shield around my body
so my body could relax.
So my so what I was doing at theage of seven, I was regulating
(02:39):
my own nervous system throughvisualization and creating a
sense of safety for myself so Icould relax. Now that that was
sufficient to go to sleep, butit wasn't sufficient to deal
with the wound. And, ultimately,my vigilance just perpetually
got tighter. And by the time Ihad children, it it had it was
(03:05):
on a super heightened level. Iwas overly worried about their
well-being.
Overly. Like, you know, I thinkto this day, I still you know,
when I when everyone goes tosleep, I shut the house down,
which means I I take care of thethe missing pieces that I sense
can potentially cause danger tomy family. Now to some degree
(03:32):
okay. But if it's over that lineof, like, you know, you know,
what's There's a threshold.Person.
There's a threshold. So there'san if there's an
oversensitivity, then then youknow it. People that live with
hypervigilance are generallydealing with such wounds as they
(03:55):
show up.
Tim Bish (03:56):
The image that's coming up for me is this, like,
that when you're talking aboutlone wolf, when you're in a
pack, you're you can bevigilant, but you know other
people are being vigilant too,that everyone's sort of working
together. And it sounds like thelone wolf is, oh, well, I've
been modeled either withphysical separation or sort of
emotional separation that I'mkind of in charge. I have to
(04:17):
take care of myself. I'm not I'mnot on a team. Is that what I'm
hearing?
Amir Khalighi (04:21):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Like, no one's got
this. Like, I gotta deal withthis. And if you start to put
yourself in a position of aseven, eight, nine, 10 year
old's body that says, I gottadeal with life.
I gotta deal with chaos. Toomuch. I mean, what is trauma?
(04:42):
Too much, too fast. Right?
Too much, too fast. So most mostmen that have a father wound are
really tight around allowingother people to support them,
allowing themselves to besupported, going outside the
(05:06):
realm of letting other people inwhen things get challenging for
them. They go silent. They goquiet. I and I've been on this
path for years, and I still havereminisces of this.
I mean, you know this about me,Tim. Tim's had to come and be
like, okay. We're doing we'rewe're gonna take care of you. I
(05:28):
mean, you know, I'm human. I'veI've gone I I've I I am human.
I have human experiences andhuman challenges. And and, you
know, to this day, if somethingsuper heavy comes my way, my my
first muscle memory or thearchitecture of the movement of
my interior world is to go likethis and to go in. That's like
(05:51):
lived architecture, which meansI have to I have to work against
that and really working thatedge for myself to to be able to
receive.
Tim Bish (06:01):
I think it might be interesting if we were to talk a
little bit about if a man had astrong conscious father figure,
did have the safety or theconnection and the protection
that a father can provide, whatwhat can he experience that you
(06:23):
can't experience if you don'thave it? What what is
Amir Khalighi (06:26):
the goal? What what is what is he experiencing?
Tim Bish (06:28):
Right. What is the goal? And then and then because
I feel like if we understand thegoal that we could have had or
maybe should have had and thatwe don't, it'll give us
perspective on, well, how do Inow create that consciously for
myself? So so what what wouldthat look like?
Amir Khalighi (06:42):
I think what I think what the child that has a
present father in his life isexperiencing is, one, all is
welcomed. Okay? All of him iswelcomed. All of his expressions
are welcomed that he can befully himself and be met. So
(07:05):
first and foremost, I am enough.
Okay? So first and foremost, Ican be myself, and I can bring
all of me. And there is thisfigure that can hold presence
for all of that. And when thathappens, the body relaxes.
Right?
(07:25):
So in my when I'm at my bestwith my seven year old, she can
have any expression that sheneeds. Now I'm not talking about
bad behavior. I'm not okay. I'mnot talking about, like,
parenting is parenting. We'regonna put that on the side.
I'm talking about when she isfor whatever. Maybe she's
flooded with fear, and mycapacity to be with that
(07:49):
expression is fully there, andshe is met. She doesn't have she
there there's no part of herthat feels like this is on her.
Like, she's lost in it. Like, Ishe is not lost in it.
I am supporting her ex I'msupporting that aspect of her to
live without it needing toanything needing to happen to
(08:12):
it. And my regulation teachesher silently how to regulate. My
simple presence, my groundedpresence, if I'm truly grounded,
if I'm truly present with her,that in and of itself will reg
teach her without words how toregulate. K? So she is feeling a
(08:38):
sense of safety.
She's feeling a sense of notbeing alone. She's feeling a
sense of being met in herchallenge. She feels like she
can trust. She can lean on. Shedoesn't have to do it alone, all
(08:58):
the opposite of the lone wolf.
Tim Bish (09:01):
I'm hearing a lot of parallel to now men's work.
Because what I feel like I'mhearing you say is allowing a
person the opportunity to havetheir fullest expression and
sometimes even be overwhelmed byit, but in a safe way so that
they can start to understandwhere their edges are. And I
(09:21):
feel like we do this in men'swork too. Like, oh, I'm I'm
learning where my edge is, andoccasionally, I might get pushed
past my edge. And I canunderstand what that is too.
But in the safety of thiscontainer, I can then use that
to have an understanding of,well, now here's my edge. This
is what it feels like to getpushed past. This is what I can
do. So it feels like that's,like what we do in men's work is
(09:42):
creating the same thing that youwere discussing in parenting to
allow someone to to reallyexperience their their their
expression. And the the thingthat's coming up is I keep
thinking about, like, when I wasa diver.
You're learning a new dive, andsometimes you over rotate, and
sometimes you under rotate. Butthat experiences teach you how
(10:04):
to do it the most correctly.There is some value in over
rotating in your, like, forwarddive with a half twist. And
there's some value in that. Andand then you go back the next
time, and you're like, well, nowI have a clear idea of how much
I can rotate.
Amir Khalighi (10:18):
Does that Here here's the here's the nugget
that we are coming upon righthere. The nugget here is that we
have to learn as adult men howto father ourselves. The
unconscious piece is when weoutsource that that to others in
(10:39):
relationship. No one is coming.No one will be enough.
No one will say it when you needto hear it. No one that moment
is gone. That moment between achild and a father in a sense is
gone. What we are doing isgiving you a safe environment to
(11:03):
go back in and learn how toreparent, refather yourself.
Tim Bish (11:09):
Mhmm.
Amir Khalighi (11:09):
And as part of that exploration, all the
judgments that we've held, allthe feelings that we have not
felt have to be now in that safespace, sat with, confronted,
worked with, experienced, thatis healing. That's what healing
(11:33):
is. Healing is the capacity torevisit that space from a new
paradigm where you get toshepherd yourself through that
experience.
Eric Bomyea (11:46):
To, in the case of not having a father figure who
was able to hold space to beable to, with grounded presence,
say you are enough and all ofyou is welcome, That not having
that can create that fatherwound that leads us to not
feeling safe, leads us tofeeling hyper vigilant in the
(12:09):
world. And what we're saying isthat there are ways in which you
can revisit that and go intothat space and bring to yourself
the message of you are enough.You are all welcome here.
Amir Khalighi (12:23):
Yeah. And I think what I really wanna, like, focus
on just separating here is youare not responsible for the
healing. You are responsible forthe willingness to go into an
environment that is conducivefor healing and having the
(12:43):
courage and the willingness tobe in that space. Right? Healing
naturally happens.
It is in the it's intrinsicallyas part of the fabric of life.
Right? So you don't when you geta cut, you don't have to focus
on how to heal. You're like,heal. Right?
(13:06):
It heals. It heals. But it needsit needs a environment where you
can go and and be with thatwound. Now, of course, we are
calling up a version of you thatis yet to come and is but is
coming forth that can do this.That's why men's work is
(13:29):
important.
That's why everything that youmentioned is is important to be
able to have that support systemand encouragement. So I need to
be able to see you in thathealed state, and then you get
to see yourself through my eyes.Now we we don't wanna get too
far off the topic here. But yes,yes, men's work really is the
the space for you to to havethat explorative experience if
(13:54):
you wish to go heal this wound.
Tim Bish (13:56):
So creating the causes and the environment from in
which healing is most possibleis what I'm hearing you say.
Eric Bomyea (14:03):
Yeah. And my question would be so we talked
about some of thecharacteristics that can pop up
when somebody is dealing with anunresolved father wound, the
lone wolf, I don't trust anyone,I have to do everything by
myself. And so if I've startedto become aware of these
attributes, why would I seek outhealing?
Amir Khalighi (14:22):
You don't have to. Don't. Live that life.
Eric Bomyea (14:26):
And how would that
Amir Khalighi (14:27):
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. This is this
is the I look. No one can becoerced, pushed into healing.
No like I always say, you can'tyell at a flower to grow any
faster. Okay? If you're at theprecipice of wanting to change
(14:48):
the trajectory of your life, ifyou're on the precipice and you
have the willingness to stoprunning from certain patterns
that are kicking your ass inlife, and and you and the
suggestion is stop running,pause, turn around, and begin to
(15:10):
face what's here. There issupport for you to do this.
Okay.
Now we can talk. But to someonewho is not ready, who is not
willing, you are wasting yourbreath. Mhmm.
Eric Bomyea (15:27):
Otherwise, if if they're not ready, it's
impacting their relationships.It's impacting their ability
receive, to be held, and theweight of the world is just
getting heavier and heavier andheavier on their shoulders. I
mean, can say it like the weightof the world was getting heavier
and heavier and heavier on myshoulders before I started to
look at was like, I can doeverything on my own. Fuck
(15:48):
everyone. Like, I don't trustanyone, especially if you're a
man.
Amir Khalighi (15:52):
Especially men.
Eric Bomyea (15:52):
Especially if you're a man. I do not trust
Amir Khalighi (15:55):
you Telltale. At all. Telltale that you have a
father wound.
Eric Bomyea (15:59):
And so how often do you see men projecting their
unresolved father wounds ontoother men, especially those in
leadership?
Amir Khalighi (16:07):
That's a softball. You just you just
threw me a softball. You know,we have a robust community. We
have we have a thriving, robustcommunity at embodied masculine.
I would say with the men, asthey get more intimate into,
let's say, leadership or, youknow, they've been they've been
(16:30):
doing the work for a while and,you know, they're deep in it
with the different programs.
If we take those men, right, solet's say they are 20% of the
spectrum of men that just comeand practice once in a while.
Maybe the maybe it's even more.Maybe it's like I don't know,
Tim. What do you think?
Tim Bish (16:50):
I mean, it it could be 40%. 40%? Yeah.
Amir Khalighi (16:54):
Right? Yeah. Let's say 40% of the men wanna
go deep. Of that 40%, I wouldsay 20% on some level want to
project their stuff ontoleadership. Now that could I
have experienced it personallymultiple times.
I don't take it personally. Doesit hurt? Kinda. Do I take it
(17:18):
personally? Not no.
I don't take it personallybecause I know what we're
dealing with. My work in theworld is to work primarily with
men with father wounds. It's notsomething that I only do, but
they tend to navigate to mebecause I've I've overcome it to
a certain extent in my life, andit becomes the calling card of
(17:42):
or the resonance, energeticresonance of what my work in the
world is. So I tend to call alot of men with Michael energy
and father wounds. I would sayabout seventy five percent.
And I still work with plenty ofmen that are mother wounds or,
you know, other issues. Of thatforty percent, I would say maybe
(18:04):
twenty percent of that. Youknow? And that, you know, that
transference, as Jung calls it,is a natural phenomenon. It's
not personal.
And the more you guys step intoleadership, and I know Tim has,
I'm sure, already experiencedthis. Tim runs his own you know?
And I would be very curious onyour perspective. But, yeah,
(18:29):
like, men will just disappear.Like, people that have been
really close, you know, I've hadpeople also, like, you know, go
off the handle, you know, incertain situations.
Most of them will justdisappear. And I'm like, oh,
they just hit a threshold onthis, and they need to take time
and, like, be a way torealcomize and come back to the
(18:52):
table.
Tim Bish (18:53):
Well, that's why this conversation is so important
because what I'm hearing andwhat I've observed, I've in my
own experience and observingyou, is that these these moments
can actually be opportunities.If
Amir Khalighi (19:05):
Huge.
Tim Bish (19:05):
Yeah. If there is a context around it and a
willingness to kind of sit inthe fire, the discomfort of
that, transformation can happen.But I and I think when you talk
about people stepping away, itmaybe they needed, like, wait.
There is a there's a there's anugget here for you if you're
willing to just sit for asecond, if you're willing to
(19:26):
stay.
Amir Khalighi (19:27):
You're you're bringing up such an important
point, Tim. Because what whatTim is talking about is that we
want that charge to come up. Wewant that we want it to come up
because that's the space wherewe get to actually have an
opportunity to make adifference, make a choice that's
(19:49):
different and make a change,really participate in the in in
in in the alchemization of this.Right? And what I'm reminded of,
and we we can go into it asdeeper as little as you want, is
that this was not a father woundper se.
Maybe it was. I don't reallyknow. But in the early years of
Tim being in in my container,There was a moment where there
(20:16):
was turbulence, something cameup that needed to come up, and
Tim sat on at the precipice of acrossroad. He could have picked
the can for another five, tenyears and pulled himself away
and disappeared. People havedone that.
(20:37):
And they have the right to dothat. Or just had the tolerance
enough to just be with thediscomfort and just enough to
hear or and see the other road.Let the other road open just a
little bit and tip in thedirection of the new.
Tim Bish (21:00):
So I'm not entirely sure which specific thing you're
referring to because there havebeen more than one.
Amir Khalighi (21:06):
I More than one.
Tim Bish (21:06):
But I will
Amir Khalighi (21:07):
say I I I'm thinking of I'm thinking of the
the
Tim Bish (21:10):
The sweat lodge? Yeah. Yeah. But, yes, it was very
uncomfortable. And on the otherside of it was growth,
expansion.
I mean, I remember twenty fourhours later in that experience,
and we don't need to get intothe details, but, you know,
twenty four hours later, I feltexpanded, different. I felt like
I had served another brother. II just felt like everything had
(21:33):
changed, but I absolutely waslike, I'm driving the fuck out
of this desert. I don't wanna behere. I'm like, I was, you know,
and like that's that's where youmet me in that place.
It was so uncomfortable. And theopportunity. And you you very
skillfully reminded me thatthere was an opportunity, which
was part of the part of why Iwas able to stay and the safety
(21:54):
of a container. So when we goback to, like, oh, those things
were those structures were inplace. So even when I was sort
of, like, bubbling, I was ableto feel enough safety to stay.
Amir Khalighi (22:07):
But there was an this the healing happened
because of you, not because ofme, and I'll tell you why. I'll
tell you why right now. Theversion of you that chose to
stay chose to trust me. That'swhy I think there was elements
of a father within that. Yourwillingness to reengage into
(22:29):
that type of dynamicrelationship.
Right? I I I, you know, I I'mI'm a figure. I have in that
dynamic, I have power. I I'mlike, you know, a teacher. You
are you are trusting so thatmovement that you made in that
furnace of reactivity whennormally you'd be like, I'm
(22:51):
fucking out of here.
Fuck you. And maybe you did thatnine out of 10 times, but on
this occasion, you were able tobe with the fire long enough,
nervous system regulation, allthe times that you've been doing
practices, gave you anopportunity to be able to stand
in that fire long enough to seethe new option and then having
(23:12):
the willingness to make thatmove change the trajectory of
your life, I would say. Andevery time we are at a precipice
of these crossroads, we get toeither repeat a pattern or birth
a new universe in experience andreality. The problem with people
(23:34):
that are the the when I say youhave the right to repeat your
patterns as much as you want,you don't have to do any healing
unless you want it or or youkeep getting the same fucking
results. That's the thing withtrauma.
It the life will you know, it ithas a contract with with life
where, like, okay. I'm gonnakeep repeating this thing for as
(23:58):
long as it's needed until hegets it.
Tim Bish (24:01):
The the brotherhood also. And, like, when we recall
that moment, the brotherhood,John Yang, Jason, these they
were also they were also a partof that experience for me even
if they weren't in the roomhaving the conversation. And so
when we think about creatingthese communities, it was that
too. Because I'm like, oh, well,you know, there was
Eric Bomyea (24:21):
all these, like, sources of trust and love that
participated. Yeah, trust. So ifI am understanding correctly,
one of the roots of this flareup, this crossroads moment was
Tim, underneath it all saying, Idon't trust you. I don't trust
this container, and I have ajudgment about that. I have a
(24:43):
judgment about your capacity,your ability to trust.
Amir Khalighi (24:46):
He he verbalized it.
Eric Bomyea (24:48):
Oh, I said that. Right. Yeah. So so that right
there, you were then able todevelop a trust in the container
in this man in front of us todayand to start to work through
that judgment. So I think thisis the the pass off to, like,
what are what ways in which,like, this type of judgment
shows up as we're dealing withwith men or other father
(25:12):
figures?
Right?
Amir Khalighi (25:13):
Like Yeah. Well, the the that's a two it's a two
step dance because as the otherperson, as the recipient, I you
know, in the position I was in,I had to see what this was for
itself. I could have very easilymade it about me like, what the
hell are you talking about? Thisis not a safe space. It's an
absolute safe space.
Let me tell you all the reasonsthis is a safe space. And I
(25:35):
could have made my case and Icould have could have turned
into a lawyer and no one wouldhave been served. Or I could
have been like, oh, this is hisprotection mechanism that it's
doing its thing. I'm gonna bewith it. And when I sense an
(25:56):
opening, I will present myperception of the situation, and
let's see if he can see it.
Right? So on my side, it takesas a let's say the father
figure, it takes some skill set.Right? So if I every time I had
to, like, debate with my sevenyear old about something, I'd
lose the fight. Right?
(26:19):
I don't need to prove to herthat I'm, you know, that I'm not
x a, whatever she thinks I am.Like, I need to be able to pull
back and see what's happening.So that's on one side. On Tim's
side, he had to, like, be ableto see that he does this. I do
this.
Eric Bomyea (26:38):
The quick to judgment, the the quick to
Amir Khalighi (26:41):
Yeah. Like, I I do this. And to be able to see
what that judgment is reallydoing, I know what it's doing.
Do you do you guys have a senseof what it's doing?
Eric Bomyea (26:55):
Protecting. It's a different Yes.
Amir Khalighi (26:57):
It's exactly what it's doing. It is a gatekeeper.
It is a guy with a fuckingleather jacket with and a bat in
his hand Bot. That isprotecting, well, you you have a
different he's like, yeah. Let'swait.
Wait. This is great. Please,Eric, tell us what he looks like
(27:17):
for you.
Eric Bomyea (27:19):
Well, if it's that case, I'm like, oh, well, sign
me up for that club. Back to it.But he's gatekeeper to Whatever
Amir Khalighi (27:27):
your whatever your gatekeeper is dressed as.
Alright. That's what judgmentdoes. Judgment keeps people away
from that wound.
Tim Bish (27:39):
So it's when when someone is working with their
with their father wound andwanting to bring awareness to
it, bring healing to it,recognizing that that is just
like parts of our shadow, like,there for a reason. And it's
it's about understanding it andmeeting it. It's it's not about
(27:59):
judging it, judging thejudgment, but rather, oh, I see
you. I understand why you exist,and now I get to look into how
it is serving or not serving meand making conscious choices
around that. Is that what I'mhearing?
Amir Khalighi (28:12):
Almost. Almost. So I think I think understanding
what it's there and what it'sdoing is really important. But
what we wanna get to is theexperience of emotions that are
unexpressed underneath inside ofthat wound. Right?
So I'll give you an example withmy own father and my my father
(28:35):
line, really. So and I've talkedabout this in another podcast.
I'll try to keep it short. But II growing up, I had a huge
judgment around my father, hisfather, his ability I mean, I
his ability to carve his ownpath, like, you know, his
(28:55):
addictions. I had I had allthese I had all these judgments
about him.
And it wasn't until, you know, Iwas actually in a ceremony in
VHS, which you both have goneto. And I was in this I was in
this ceremony, and I started tohave, like, like, a deep need
(29:18):
for some fatherly love, let'ssay. And I immediately heard my
own voice. Okay. This is what wedo.
I'm gonna father myself. I'mgonna take I'm gonna allow to be
the safe space for me to be beable to feel what's coming up.
And simultaneously, as I wasdoing that, I could feel almost
(29:40):
like an energetic like,energetically, we were in
ceremony. I could energeticallyfeel the presence of my father
in that space. And I it was likealmost of like a like a
barometer.
Like the like the the less Ijudged him, the more I could
feel his presence in my life.And once I turned the judgment
(30:02):
down enough, I got to thefeelings. I I was fucking
pissed. How fucking dare you,like, not show up for me? I
missed you.
You missed your grandkids. Like,I just started pouring into I I
I almost felt like it wasn'tgoing to end, like, how much
emotion I I had in my heart inthat wound. But as soon as I
(30:28):
really allowed myself to feelthat, I could feel more and more
of his presence near me. And I Istarted to actually go from
holding space for myself intoleaning into him energetically
for the first time ever maybe,ever. I'm a 54 year old man.
This was a few years ago. I'mlike, you know, 50 years old or
(30:50):
whatever I was. And I really gotto I have this somatic healing
of of an understanding thatjudgments just keep me away.
Judgments just keep me away.Keeps a distance between me and
others.
Or you the more
Eric Bomyea (31:11):
you judge, the less you were able to bring those
emotions to the surface. I'm I'mpissed that you couldn't come up
because of how much judgment wasin the way.
Amir Khalighi (31:20):
Yeah. I couldn't really tap into the feelings.
We'll get that's what judgmentdoes. It creates a distance not
from you to them. It creates adistance from you to you.
Tim Bish (31:31):
It creates a distance from you to you. Wow.
Amir Khalighi (31:35):
And at the end of the day, healing has to happen
with you to you. Healing is aopen it's it's allowing the the
the wound to be open, to beexposed to light, And then
naturally, healing begins tohappen.
Tim Bish (31:49):
You know, this makes me think of this concept of, you
know, emotions or or experience.And if and if we don't allow
ourselves them, then they kindof get stuck. So it sounds like
part of the healing is I have toI have to allow myself to feel
it or experience it, or or I'mjust gonna carry it with me. And
then if I'm carrying it with me,especially if I'm carrying it
(32:10):
with me unconsciously, that'swhen it's most likely to come
out sideways in ways that Idon't even fully understand or
maybe can't control.
Amir Khalighi (32:17):
And add an add another layer to the problem.
You have a society that is shamebased around any child's
expressions, emotionalexpressions. We call it feminine
expression. It's but it's reallyit's not about gender. It's just
that, you know, all childrenhave that within them, this
desire to express.
(32:38):
And when you're shamed or whenit's collapsed at a young age
and now you're a 35 year old manthat you're like, I can't feel
anything. I don't you know,they've it's almost like a
severance that has happenedwithin yourself internally. And
that becomes the work of, like,how to reintegrate, how to
reclaim aspects of yourself,aspects of pieces of you that
(33:02):
you've left behind that you'redisconnected from. That's why in
half practices that, you know, Ibring and you bring in in your
circles, you know, they're halfof them are feminine embodiment
practices because we need todeepen our capacity and and
deepen our sensitivity to ourown emotional bodies, not only
(33:25):
in in being able to be witnessand be with them, but also to be
a safe container for ourselves,which is what are we doing?
We're fathering ourselves.
Right? I'm like, you're thatpart. Like, learning how to do
that in men's work is a hugecomponent of men's work. And I
would venture to say thatmajority of majority don't. It's
(33:47):
not on their radar.
It's definitely on our radar.
Eric Bomyea (33:50):
So along the the healing path and specifically
around this ceremony and thedays afterwards during
integration, the ability to turndown the dial on judgment
allowed some healing to takeplace. So I'm curious, was that
healing about forgiveness orreconnection?
Amir Khalighi (34:11):
More for reconnection for me. Some
forgiveness, definitely morereconnection because the same
way I judge them about x, y, andz, I'm internally judging myself
because I know I am a part ofthat clan. And I think for me,
coming to, you know, droppingthe judgments, feeling the
(34:35):
feelings really gave me anopportunity to take my rightful
place in my masculine lineage.You know? I really felt their
support on what I wasalchemizing for all our behalfs.
I really felt their presence andappreciation for the first time.
(34:55):
And and, you know, I this is apart of me that that I I had
disavowed within myself, notjust my father and my
grandfather, but, like, thewhole masculine lineage.
Eric Bomyea (35:12):
So reconnecting to them through toning down
judgment and being able toreconcile of sorts to to be able
to forgive or forget, like, what
Amir Khalighi (35:26):
are the When when you when you when you stop
judging something, you actuallybegin to see it for what it is.
Because when you're judging,you're putting a wig and a and a
lipstick on it that you want.But when you stop doing that,
you can start to actually, like,see people for who they are, the
(35:49):
essence of them. Right? And Ifound myself I'm like, you know
what?
I judge them for being likestreet wise and tatted up. And I
had all these judgments aboutthem, know, like, oh, they're
not good fathers. And dude, I amfully tatted up. I'm a I'm a I
used to be a street hustler whenI was a kid. Like, I'm like,
(36:09):
wait a minute.
Those are all judgments I haveabout myself too. And it just it
all just started to crumble.
Eric Bomyea (36:18):
Yes. There's a there's a little bit of
forgiveness about them and areconciliation about them, but
really it's it's about forgivingyourself for judging them for so
long and really recognizing thatthe judgment had less to do with
them as it did with yourself.
Amir Khalighi (36:33):
Yeah. I think it just kept kept me from it kept
me from them. And we are we arenot designed this way. We are
not designed to be islands. Weare we are interconnected
beings, whether it's friendshipor family.
And you don't have to like yourfamily or even hang out with
(36:59):
them. But I think there is valuein assessing our judgments about
them, I think there is value inseeing where there's a blind
spot within us that needsattention, whether that's a
healing or a shadow. I mean,this is really the type of men I
(37:23):
wanna hang out with.
Tim Bish (37:25):
What is the danger in the projection of the perfect
dad? Because when we're talkingabout this, it sounds like we're
bringing into the conversation arecognition that people are are
meeting us where they they theycan. And I'm thinking about my
own father, and, you know, hedidn't he didn't have certain
things modeled to him, and hedidn't have men's workspaces
(37:47):
that I'm aware of. And so thatawareness helps me soften a
little bit. Be like, okay.
Well Sure. And but I do thinkthat sometimes we get this idea
of, like, well, this is what itshould have been. This is what
the ideal father should havebeen, and now I'm mad at you for
not for not being Yeah. Well, I
Amir Khalighi (38:05):
I I think, you know, intellectualizing and and
getting into the heart of whatyou're feeling and expressing it
are two different things. Right?I think I think they're I think
I don't yeah. I mean, look. Mydad did his thing.
It was his path. It doesn't haveto be my path. Doesn't have to
be the way I think it needs tobe. Right? I mean, I'm having a
(38:30):
similar thing with, you know, myeldest daughter.
She probably doesn't think mypath is the path the way it
should be. Like, her coming toterms with that, that's hers.
Mine is like, you know what? Youdid your thing. And as my
father, I love you.
Do I have pain around the yourlack of presence in my life? You
(38:53):
better fucking believe it. Am Iam I taking responsibility in
addressing that? You betterfucking believe it. I'm not
outsourcing this anymore.
I'm not saying you fix merelationship. You love me, make
me feel safe relationship. Like,I'm I I don't I don't want that
(39:16):
because it's too painful for me,and it's too painful for the
intimate people in myrelationship. It's not fair. So
if you're outsourcing your painbecause you can't hold it,
you're gonna keep getting sameresults until you're like, okay.
I need some help. Somebodyfucking help me. Perfect place
(39:38):
to be.
Tim Bish (39:39):
And I'm really hearing that, you know, people who are
approaching this part of theirown journey and their own
healing, it does not need to beconnected to repairing or or or
liking your father or fatherfigure. That isn't that is that
isn't a requirement for thiswork in the ceiling.
Amir Khalighi (39:58):
Yeah. Reconciliation has nothing to do
with having a relationship withsomeone, a continued
relationship. I've had somepowerful reconciliations, and
there has been nothing aboutthat person that I wanna
continue to have anotherrelationship with. But did I
need to take ownership aroundcertain things? Yeah.
(40:19):
Did they need to say theirpeace? Yeah. In the name of,
like, creating space and freedombecause, you know, I want I
don't want anything danglingwith people. Right? And with
family, it's a little bitharder.
Eric Bomyea (40:35):
So when somebody gets to that moment of, like,
finally being on their knees,being like, can somebody please
help me? That starts to soundlike the breaking point and is
the antithesis of what thiswound can manifest as, that
whole, I can do this on my own.I don't need support. Don't need
any help. The sheer fact ofsomebody raising their hands
(40:55):
like, I'm ready and ready toreceive help is a huge first
step.
And then along the path ofhealing, as a man chooses to
face this consciously, whatbegins to shift for him? Not
just for himself, but thegenerations that came before and
that come afterwards?
Amir Khalighi (41:15):
Yeah. So I think one of the one way to describe
this is that, you know, beforeany great change, there's great
turbulence. Okay? If you canwithstand the turbulence, you'll
have your breakthrough. You'llhave your breakthrough.
I'm reminded of, you know, I'mreminded of and this is don't
(41:39):
know if this and we're talkingabout armies and and air and air
force and planes. Is that cool?It's like, okay. Let's go. You
know, I was like, you know, thethe Russians in The US were were
in a race to break the soundbarrier.
I think I've shared this storywith with you, Tim. Yeah. And
(42:00):
these planes they would makeevery time they got close to
Mach one, the planes wouldrattle and they would explode,
and and they lost pilots.Ultimately, they get they get
the plane they think is theplane, it's called an x one, and
they get the pilot that theythink can do it, Chuck Yeager.
They go to him, they say, look,time is of essence.
(42:20):
We have to do this. We thinkyou're the man to do it. And he
says, okay. He does it. He'sclimbing up.
Everybody's watching. And thesame fucking thing. As soon as
he starts to get close to Mach1, the plane starts to rattle
uncontrollably. And the onlydifference in with what Jaeger
(42:42):
did and all the other ones was
Tim Bish (42:45):
He kept going. He pushed through.
Amir Khalighi (42:48):
He throttled forward instead of pull back.
Everybody would pull backbecause the throttling was too
intense or they would eject. Hethrottled forward, and he said
the moment he broke the soundbarrier, everything went still.
He said you could serve tea tothe queen. Like, everything went
(43:09):
still.
So these moments these momentsof turbulence, these moments of
upheaval are really, like, yourcalling card that you're on the
precipice of of potentiallysomething incredible, a shift in
(43:30):
your life. But it always dependson your willingness to be able
to tolerate the uncomfortabilityand begin to see the landscape
for what it is and, like Tim,make a new choice in moving in a
new direction.
Tim Bish (43:48):
I was laughing earlier because, as you know, there's
been my life has had someturbulence. And so that that
message feels uniquely welltimed for me today. So thank you
for that reminder.
Amir Khalighi (44:02):
You're welcome. You're welcome. And I know you
know how to do it.
Tim Bish (44:07):
Yeah. And it's it's it's still scary. I have to
imagine, you know, for someonelistening to this podcast and
thinking about doing this work,each step feels like an
adventure. And there are momentswhere it feels really
challenging again. And that'swhy having teachers, having
structures, having community,having brothers, having context
(44:30):
and conversation are all really,really important because
sometimes it feels like a lot.
And those are the things that ifyou are the lone wolf and you
are standing by yourself, it'smaybe too much to hold. If It is
too much. If you're in the pack,then okay. It doesn't mean I'm
not uncomfortable, but it meansthat it is shared and supported
(44:53):
in a way that allows me to keepmoving. I'm walking this tough
road, but I'm not alone.
Amir Khalighi (45:00):
Let me tell you something. If you're on the path
of self actualization, whichthis is what this is, self
actualization is new renditionsof you consistently evolving and
coming into being, the processis going to be fucking painful,
and it will be messy. Just likea delivery of a baby, it is
(45:22):
fucking painful, and it isfucking messy, and it is magic
in its purest essence. That'syou're engaging in your own
evolution consciously. Is itgonna be hard at times?
Yes. That's really what, youknow, what this is about. I
(45:44):
mean, we do the healing to startto step into newer versions of
ourselves that are that areaching to come through.
Eric Bomyea (45:51):
Gotta interrupt the the cycle to create something
new.
Amir Khalighi (45:55):
Yeah. And and and that something new could be a
long string that is karmicallyconnected to, you know, your
ancestry line. And when you healhere, you're just sparking this
healing, and it moves up anddown this thread backwards,
forwards to your children, toyour to your ancestors. So that
(46:19):
is there's truth in that.
Eric Bomyea (46:21):
So connecting to the lineage of where we came
from and what will come afterus. Healing, what I just heard
you say, helps to remedy orresolve up the line and down the
line.
Amir Khalighi (46:38):
Absolutely. And if every if everything is energy
and you're shifting yourenergetic biofield, what's
happening to the line? It'sshifting.
Eric Bomyea (46:45):
And what becomes possible in a man's life and in
his relationships as that linebegins to shift?
Amir Khalighi (46:53):
I mean, we could spend an hour on this, but I
really believe life wants togive you everything that's in
your heart. That's it. That's inalignment to, like, to your
highest good. Now we may thinkwe need certain things, but
really for your highest good. Itwants to give you what is in
your heart.
And I think the I think comingto terms of the fact that that
(47:17):
is possible is a lot of powerfor men to come to terms with.
And, historically, men withpower don't have a great track
record. So as we individuallylearn how to wield conscious
power, we are also alchemizing,you know, in a societal sense,
(47:39):
the unconscious collective oftoxic masculinity, what that
means. And a lot of it is justunconsciousness. A lot of toxic
masculinity is justunconsciousness, whether it's
unconsciousness from a father toa son.
You know, he's just on he's notaware of what's happening. He's
preoccupied in his own story, sothere's no presence for him.
(48:01):
Right? And it is this awakeningthat that I think so presence
becomes really one of the focalpoints. Like, you know, is there
presence in this moment?
You know? Am I present with you?You know? As part of this
macroevolution of what I senseis happening to men to men and
(48:27):
what it means to be a man. Andand reclaiming, like, our power
and reclaiming our power, butnot the way we've been trained
because society feeds off ofthis hierarchical system of
domination.
But the power that is inalignment with your
(48:48):
interconnectedness to your heartand your heart interconnected to
the earth, Like, beingreconnected to something greater
than yourself that you're a partof, not this esoteric thing
that's outside of you that youneed interpreters to understand.
And it's just like, no, man.Like, no. Like, no. We're done
(49:09):
with that system.
Right? So I think it's areclamation on multiple levels.
Like, individually as menchange, the collective begins to
change. And the paradigm that'scoming into being is more of a
surrounded circle sense of powerand what that means for you to
take your rightful place in thatpower. You guys running this
(49:33):
circle, I'm gonna tell yousomething, you know this.
This is not really about you.This is about you taking your
place and doing what you'recalled to do. And the moment you
make it about you, you lose theplot. And when you lose the
plot, you lose the power. Nowwith power comes great
responsibility, therefore, beingconscious of wielding power
(49:57):
becomes incredibly important.
And if you're wielding it forsomething greater, then you are
in the river of life. And Ithink that's where masculinity
is really headed to, is toreally awaken to where we call
in the fabric of life and takingour rightful place in doing that
and participating in the healingof ourselves and the fabric of
of society and life as we knowit.
Eric Bomyea (50:19):
That is it's a beautiful vision. It's something
that is something I want tostrive for. And I'm striving for
every single day. And so I'mcurious for anyone listening
who's feeling the ache of thiswound and who sees that vision
and says, I want I want to getthere someday. What would you
want them to know right now, andwhat resources are available to
(50:41):
them?
Amir Khalighi (50:42):
Well, I would say, like, just the simple fact
of willingness is the open doorthat you're looking for. And
then the next step is to takeaction because nothing happens
in your like, just thinkingabout it. Like, take action. Go
to a men's circle. Like,literally show up.
And if you go to a circle thatyou don't like, go to another
(51:05):
one.
Tim Bish (51:06):
Yeah. Keep looking. Keep
Amir Khalighi (51:08):
looking. Mhmm. Right? Keep looking for your
people. You're gonna find peoplethat are your people, that speak
your vernacular, right, and thatthat you feel at home with, you
know, and it may take a fewtimes before you orient to that.
And just know that the work isinternal. Like, the answers come
(51:30):
first from starting to lookwithin yourself and having an
honest assessment about whatyou're seeing. And, usually,
having other men reflect back toyou how you show up in the world
is part of that process. So thelone wolf is just not going to
get there. No.
It's not going to it's not goingto be a part of this evolution.
(51:52):
It's just not. It can it can itcan exist. It just won't join
the party.
Tim Bish (51:57):
Well, so, I mean, there are lots of men's groups
that exist. Obviously, there'sthe circle here in Provincetown
that Eric and I both run. Youhave your weekly circle online
at embodiedmasculine.com. You'realso doing a workshop around
this very topic in July.
Amir Khalighi (52:15):
We are.
Tim Bish (52:15):
Yeah. We are.
Amir Khalighi (52:16):
A free workshop. So, yeah, a free event. So I'm
I'm putting together becauseit's really it's this is really
close to my heart. It's reallyclose to my heart. I really,
really know the pain ofisolation in this space and the
and the hypervigilance and andthe and the protectionism around
(52:37):
that wound and and and theprojections of it and how it
hurts people that I love.
You know? And so I this thishealing the father wound event
in July is meaningful to me.It's meaningful to me. Yes. They
you know, people can we'll haveit's open registration, and you
(53:00):
just register.
You'll get an email with apreparation letter and and Zoom
link, and it's a three hourevent. And I think it'll be a
really great space for all ofthis exploration.
Tim Bish (53:10):
They can go to they can go to embodiedmasculine.com
to find that information and toregister. Is that right?
Amir Khalighi (53:16):
Yeah. Yeah. Under you just hover over offerings,
and it's under workshops. Andthat's the first item to item
down.
Eric Bomyea (53:25):
Right. It's a really tremendous offering to be
able to bring to the world. It'savailable online As long as you
have an Internet connection anda willingness to show up, you
can participate. And I thinkthat accessibility is so
critical when we're dealing withsuch a difficult wound like this
(53:47):
that shows up in so many waysaround trust and and judgment
and whether or not I belong tosomething or can I even be in
that space and just the opennessto welcome people in as they
are, like, let's do this work,is really, really beautiful? So
thank you for offering it.
Amir Khalighi (54:06):
Yeah. Thank you for those kind words. Yeah. And
I think it's it speaks to thewillingness, like I said. If you
have a willingness to take astep forward, You know?
And, you know, we'll have youknow, we'll we'll be using
journeying as part of the work.We'll we'll have ritual as part
of the work, it'll be it'll be athing. It'll be meaningful.
Eric Bomyea (54:26):
Well, with that, I'm feeling very complete. We'll
do round robin. Tim, how are youfeeling?
Tim Bish (54:30):
I feel complete. And, Demir?
Amir Khalighi (54:32):
I do as well. I feel complete.
Eric Bomyea (54:34):
Well, thank you so much. Tim, will you take us out?
Tim Bish (54:36):
I will. Let's close our eyes and take a deep inhale
through the nose. Soft exhalethrough the mouth. And it is
with deep appreciation andgratitude for any insights,
awarenesses, or understandingsthat we may have gained in this
sacred shared space ofbrotherhood that we now release
the archetypes and the spiritsthat we called in. And with
these words are containers openbut not broken.
(54:57):
Uh-huh.
Welcome back to The Circle. In our last episode with
Amir Khaligi, we opened up theconversation around the father
wound, how absent or emotionallydistanced fathers can quietly
shape the way we trust, feel,and show up in the world. But
what happens once we realize thewound is there? In part two of
our conversation, Amir returnsto help us explore what it
actually takes to face thefather wound, and why so many of
(00:26):
us get stuck along the way tohealing it. We look at how this
wound lives in the body andshapes our relationships, and
what becomes possible when westop trying to navigate it
alone.
Tim, Amir, are you ready to goall in?
Amir Khalighi (00:38):
Let's do it.
Tim Bish (00:39):
I'm ready.
Eric Bomyea (00:40):
Let's go. Amir, welcome back to the circle.
Amir Khalighi (00:43):
Thank you so much for inviting me back.
Eric Bomyea (00:46):
Glad to have you.
Amir Khalighi (00:46):
Appreciate it.
Eric Bomyea (00:47):
In our last conversation, we talked about
the father wound as a kind ofprimal rupture. How the absent
or emotionally distant fathercan shape our sense of safety,
force us into roles we're notquite ready for, and influence
how we move through the world.To begin today, let's recap. How
can someone begin to understandif they have a father wound, and
what are some of the things thatthey might notice first?
Amir Khalighi (01:09):
Well, again, thanks for inviting me back to
the space. I I always enjoyspending time with you both, and
I'm really proud of the workthat you're doing in the world.
So the question is, how does howdoes this father wound
masthesize and and show itselfin in day to day life? Would
(01:31):
that be sufficient? Yes.
Am I on point? Okay. I think oneof the pieces we wanna look at
here is the lone wolf syndromeor the lone wolf archetype. I
don't need anybody. I don'treally trust anybody.
(01:53):
Right? Not trusting not beingable to lean on others, not not
be able to actually lower ourvigilance in day to day life. So
if your vigilance ishypersensitive about you know,
for me, I'll give you anexample. So for me, not having
(02:17):
my father be present in my lifephysically made me feel unsafe,
like, physically. So when I wasa young child, in order to be
able to fall asleep, I would puta pretend shield around my body
so my body could relax.
So my so what I was doing at theage of seven, I was regulating
(02:39):
my own nervous system throughvisualization and creating a
sense of safety for myself so Icould relax. Now that that was
sufficient to go to sleep, butit wasn't sufficient to deal
with the wound. And, ultimately,my vigilance just perpetually
got tighter. And by the time Ihad children, it it had it was
(03:05):
on a super heightened level. Iwas overly worried about their
well-being.
Overly. Like, you know, I thinkto this day, I still you know,
when I when everyone goes tosleep, I shut the house down,
which means I I take care of thethe missing pieces that I sense
can potentially cause danger tomy family. Now to some degree
(03:32):
okay. But if it's over that lineof, like, you know, you know,
what's There's a threshold.Person.
There's a threshold. So there'san if there's an
oversensitivity, then then youknow it. People that live with
hypervigilance are generallydealing with such wounds as they
(03:55):
show up.
Tim Bish (03:56):
The image that's coming up for me is this, like,
that when you're talking aboutlone wolf, when you're in a
pack, you're you can bevigilant, but you know other
people are being vigilant too,that everyone's sort of working
together. And it sounds like thelone wolf is, oh, well, I've
been modeled either withphysical separation or sort of
emotional separation that I'mkind of in charge. I have to
(04:17):
take care of myself. I'm not I'mnot on a team. Is that what I'm
hearing?
Amir Khalighi (04:21):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Like, no one's got
this. Like, I gotta deal withthis. And if you start to put
yourself in a position of aseven, eight, nine, 10 year
old's body that says, I gottadeal with life.
I gotta deal with chaos. Toomuch. I mean, what is trauma?
(04:42):
Too much, too fast. Right?
Too much, too fast. So most mostmen that have a father wound are
really tight around allowingother people to support them,
allowing themselves to besupported, going outside the
(05:06):
realm of letting other people inwhen things get challenging for
them. They go silent. They goquiet. I and I've been on this
path for years, and I still havereminisces of this.
I mean, you know this about me,Tim. Tim's had to come and be
like, okay. We're doing we'rewe're gonna take care of you. I
(05:28):
mean, you know, I'm human. I'veI've gone I I've I I am human.
I have human experiences andhuman challenges. And and, you
know, to this day, if somethingsuper heavy comes my way, my my
first muscle memory or thearchitecture of the movement of
my interior world is to go likethis and to go in. That's like
(05:51):
lived architecture, which meansI have to I have to work against
that and really working thatedge for myself to to be able to
receive.
Tim Bish (06:01):
I think it might be interesting if we were to talk a
little bit about if a man had astrong conscious father figure,
did have the safety or theconnection and the protection
that a father can provide, whatwhat can he experience that you
(06:23):
can't experience if you don'thave it? What what is
Amir Khalighi (06:26):
the goal? What what is what is he experiencing?
Tim Bish (06:28):
Right. What is the goal? And then and then because
I feel like if we understand thegoal that we could have had or
maybe should have had and thatwe don't, it'll give us
perspective on, well, how do Inow create that consciously for
myself? So so what what wouldthat look like?
Amir Khalighi (06:42):
I think what I think what the child that has a
present father in his life isexperiencing is, one, all is
welcomed. Okay? All of him iswelcomed. All of his expressions
are welcomed that he can befully himself and be met. So
(07:05):
first and foremost, I am enough.
Okay? So first and foremost, Ican be myself, and I can bring
all of me. And there is thisfigure that can hold presence
for all of that. And when thathappens, the body relaxes.
Right?
(07:25):
So in my when I'm at my bestwith my seven year old, she can
have any expression that sheneeds. Now I'm not talking about
bad behavior. I'm not okay. I'mnot talking about, like,
parenting is parenting. We'regonna put that on the side.
I'm talking about when she isfor whatever. Maybe she's
flooded with fear, and mycapacity to be with that
(07:49):
expression is fully there, andshe is met. She doesn't have she
there there's no part of herthat feels like this is on her.
Like, she's lost in it. Like, Ishe is not lost in it.
I am supporting her ex I'msupporting that aspect of her to
live without it needing toanything needing to happen to
(08:12):
it. And my regulation teachesher silently how to regulate. My
simple presence, my groundedpresence, if I'm truly grounded,
if I'm truly present with her,that in and of itself will reg
teach her without words how toregulate. K? So she is feeling a
(08:38):
sense of safety.
She's feeling a sense of notbeing alone. She's feeling a
sense of being met in herchallenge. She feels like she
can trust. She can lean on. Shedoesn't have to do it alone, all
(08:58):
the opposite of the lone wolf.
Tim Bish (09:01):
I'm hearing a lot of parallel to now men's work.
Because what I feel like I'mhearing you say is allowing a
person the opportunity to havetheir fullest expression and
sometimes even be overwhelmed byit, but in a safe way so that
they can start to understandwhere their edges are. And I
(09:21):
feel like we do this in men'swork too. Like, oh, I'm I'm
learning where my edge is, andoccasionally, I might get pushed
past my edge. And I canunderstand what that is too.
But in the safety of thiscontainer, I can then use that
to have an understanding of,well, now here's my edge. This
is what it feels like to getpushed past. This is what I can
do. So it feels like that's,like what we do in men's work is
(09:42):
creating the same thing that youwere discussing in parenting to
allow someone to to reallyexperience their their their
expression. And the the thingthat's coming up is I keep
thinking about, like, when I wasa diver.
You're learning a new dive, andsometimes you over rotate, and
sometimes you under rotate. Butthat experiences teach you how
(10:04):
to do it the most correctly.There is some value in over
rotating in your, like, forwarddive with a half twist. And
there's some value in that. Andand then you go back the next
time, and you're like, well, nowI have a clear idea of how much
I can rotate.
Amir Khalighi (10:18):
Does that Here here's the here's the nugget
that we are coming upon righthere. The nugget here is that we
have to learn as adult men howto father ourselves. The
unconscious piece is when weoutsource that that to others in
(10:39):
relationship. No one is coming.No one will be enough.
No one will say it when you needto hear it. No one that moment
is gone. That moment between achild and a father in a sense is
gone. What we are doing isgiving you a safe environment to
(11:03):
go back in and learn how toreparent, refather yourself.
Tim Bish (11:09):
Mhmm.
Amir Khalighi (11:09):
And as part of that exploration, all the
judgments that we've held, allthe feelings that we have not
felt have to be now in that safespace, sat with, confronted,
worked with, experienced, thatis healing. That's what healing
(11:33):
is. Healing is the capacity torevisit that space from a new
paradigm where you get toshepherd yourself through that
experience.
Eric Bomyea (11:46):
To, in the case of not having a father figure who
was able to hold space to beable to, with grounded presence,
say you are enough and all ofyou is welcome, That not having
that can create that fatherwound that leads us to not
feeling safe, leads us tofeeling hyper vigilant in the
(12:09):
world. And what we're saying isthat there are ways in which you
can revisit that and go intothat space and bring to yourself
the message of you are enough.You are all welcome here.
Amir Khalighi (12:23):
Yeah. And I think what I really wanna, like, focus
on just separating here is youare not responsible for the
healing. You are responsible forthe willingness to go into an
environment that is conducivefor healing and having the
(12:43):
courage and the willingness tobe in that space. Right? Healing
naturally happens.
It is in the it's intrinsicallyas part of the fabric of life.
Right? So you don't when you geta cut, you don't have to focus
on how to heal. You're like,heal. Right?
(13:06):
It heals. It heals. But it needsit needs a environment where you
can go and and be with thatwound. Now, of course, we are
calling up a version of you thatis yet to come and is but is
coming forth that can do this.That's why men's work is
(13:29):
important.
That's why everything that youmentioned is is important to be
able to have that support systemand encouragement. So I need to
be able to see you in thathealed state, and then you get
to see yourself through my eyes.Now we we don't wanna get too
far off the topic here. But yes,yes, men's work really is the
the space for you to to havethat explorative experience if
(13:54):
you wish to go heal this wound.
Tim Bish (13:56):
So creating the causes and the environment from in
which healing is most possibleis what I'm hearing you say.
Eric Bomyea (14:03):
Yeah. And my question would be so we talked
about some of thecharacteristics that can pop up
when somebody is dealing with anunresolved father wound, the
lone wolf, I don't trust anyone,I have to do everything by
myself. And so if I've startedto become aware of these
attributes, why would I seek outhealing?
Amir Khalighi (14:22):
You don't have to. Don't. Live that life.
Eric Bomyea (14:26):
And how would that
Amir Khalighi (14:27):
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. This is this
is the I look. No one can becoerced, pushed into healing.
No like I always say, you can'tyell at a flower to grow any
faster. Okay? If you're at theprecipice of wanting to change
(14:48):
the trajectory of your life, ifyou're on the precipice and you
have the willingness to stoprunning from certain patterns
that are kicking your ass inlife, and and you and the
suggestion is stop running,pause, turn around, and begin to
(15:10):
face what's here. There issupport for you to do this.
Okay.
Now we can talk. But to someonewho is not ready, who is not
willing, you are wasting yourbreath. Mhmm.
Eric Bomyea (15:27):
Otherwise, if if they're not ready, it's
impacting their relationships.It's impacting their ability
receive, to be held, and theweight of the world is just
getting heavier and heavier andheavier on their shoulders. I
mean, can say it like the weightof the world was getting heavier
and heavier and heavier on myshoulders before I started to
look at was like, I can doeverything on my own. Fuck
(15:48):
everyone. Like, I don't trustanyone, especially if you're a
man.
Amir Khalighi (15:52):
Especially men.
Eric Bomyea (15:52):
Especially if you're a man. I do not trust
Amir Khalighi (15:55):
you Telltale. At all. Telltale that you have a
father wound.
Eric Bomyea (15:59):
And so how often do you see men projecting their
unresolved father wounds ontoother men, especially those in
leadership?
Amir Khalighi (16:07):
That's a softball. You just you just
threw me a softball. You know,we have a robust community. We
have we have a thriving, robustcommunity at embodied masculine.
I would say with the men, asthey get more intimate into,
let's say, leadership or, youknow, they've been they've been
(16:30):
doing the work for a while and,you know, they're deep in it
with the different programs.
If we take those men, right, solet's say they are 20% of the
spectrum of men that just comeand practice once in a while.
Maybe the maybe it's even more.Maybe it's like I don't know,
Tim. What do you think?
Tim Bish (16:50):
I mean, it it could be 40%. 40%? Yeah.
Amir Khalighi (16:54):
Right? Yeah. Let's say 40% of the men wanna
go deep. Of that 40%, I wouldsay 20% on some level want to
project their stuff ontoleadership. Now that could I
have experienced it personallymultiple times.
I don't take it personally. Doesit hurt? Kinda. Do I take it
(17:18):
personally? Not no.
I don't take it personallybecause I know what we're
dealing with. My work in theworld is to work primarily with
men with father wounds. It's notsomething that I only do, but
they tend to navigate to mebecause I've I've overcome it to
a certain extent in my life, andit becomes the calling card of
(17:42):
or the resonance, energeticresonance of what my work in the
world is. So I tend to call alot of men with Michael energy
and father wounds. I would sayabout seventy five percent.
And I still work with plenty ofmen that are mother wounds or,
you know, other issues. Of thatforty percent, I would say maybe
(18:04):
twenty percent of that. Youknow? And that, you know, that
transference, as Jung calls it,is a natural phenomenon. It's
not personal.
And the more you guys step intoleadership, and I know Tim has,
I'm sure, already experiencedthis. Tim runs his own you know?
And I would be very curious onyour perspective. But, yeah,
(18:29):
like, men will just disappear.Like, people that have been
really close, you know, I've hadpeople also, like, you know, go
off the handle, you know, incertain situations.
Most of them will justdisappear. And I'm like, oh,
they just hit a threshold onthis, and they need to take time
and, like, be a way torealcomize and come back to the
(18:52):
table.
Tim Bish (18:53):
Well, that's why this conversation is so important
because what I'm hearing andwhat I've observed, I've in my
own experience and observingyou, is that these these moments
can actually be opportunities.If
Amir Khalighi (19:05):
Huge.
Tim Bish (19:05):
Yeah. If there is a context around it and a
willingness to kind of sit inthe fire, the discomfort of
that, transformation can happen.But I and I think when you talk
about people stepping away, itmaybe they needed, like, wait.
There is a there's a there's anugget here for you if you're
willing to just sit for asecond, if you're willing to
(19:26):
stay.
Amir Khalighi (19:27):
You're you're bringing up such an important
point, Tim. Because what whatTim is talking about is that we
want that charge to come up. Wewant that we want it to come up
because that's the space wherewe get to actually have an
opportunity to make adifference, make a choice that's
(19:49):
different and make a change,really participate in the in in
in in the alchemization of this.Right? And what I'm reminded of,
and we we can go into it asdeeper as little as you want, is
that this was not a father woundper se.
Maybe it was. I don't reallyknow. But in the early years of
Tim being in in my container,There was a moment where there
(20:16):
was turbulence, something cameup that needed to come up, and
Tim sat on at the precipice of acrossroad. He could have picked
the can for another five, tenyears and pulled himself away
and disappeared. People havedone that.
(20:37):
And they have the right to dothat. Or just had the tolerance
enough to just be with thediscomfort and just enough to
hear or and see the other road.Let the other road open just a
little bit and tip in thedirection of the new.
Tim Bish (21:00):
So I'm not entirely sure which specific thing you're
referring to because there havebeen more than one.
Amir Khalighi (21:06):
I More than one.
Tim Bish (21:06):
But I will
Amir Khalighi (21:07):
say I I I'm thinking of I'm thinking of the
the
Tim Bish (21:10):
The sweat lodge? Yeah. Yeah. But, yes, it was very
uncomfortable. And on the otherside of it was growth,
expansion.
I mean, I remember twenty fourhours later in that experience,
and we don't need to get intothe details, but, you know,
twenty four hours later, I feltexpanded, different. I felt like
I had served another brother. II just felt like everything had
(21:33):
changed, but I absolutely waslike, I'm driving the fuck out
of this desert. I don't wanna behere. I'm like, I was, you know,
and like that's that's where youmet me in that place.
It was so uncomfortable. And theopportunity. And you you very
skillfully reminded me thatthere was an opportunity, which
was part of the part of why Iwas able to stay and the safety
(21:54):
of a container. So when we goback to, like, oh, those things
were those structures were inplace. So even when I was sort
of, like, bubbling, I was ableto feel enough safety to stay.
Amir Khalighi (22:07):
But there was an this the healing happened
because of you, not because ofme, and I'll tell you why. I'll
tell you why right now. Theversion of you that chose to
stay chose to trust me. That'swhy I think there was elements
of a father within that. Yourwillingness to reengage into
(22:29):
that type of dynamicrelationship.
Right? I I I, you know, I I'mI'm a figure. I have in that
dynamic, I have power. I I'mlike, you know, a teacher. You
are you are trusting so thatmovement that you made in that
furnace of reactivity whennormally you'd be like, I'm
(22:51):
fucking out of here.
Fuck you. And maybe you did thatnine out of 10 times, but on
this occasion, you were able tobe with the fire long enough,
nervous system regulation, allthe times that you've been doing
practices, gave you anopportunity to be able to stand
in that fire long enough to seethe new option and then having
(23:12):
the willingness to make thatmove change the trajectory of
your life, I would say. Andevery time we are at a precipice
of these crossroads, we get toeither repeat a pattern or birth
a new universe in experience andreality. The problem with people
(23:34):
that are the the when I say youhave the right to repeat your
patterns as much as you want,you don't have to do any healing
unless you want it or or youkeep getting the same fucking
results. That's the thing withtrauma.
It the life will you know, it ithas a contract with with life
where, like, okay. I'm gonnakeep repeating this thing for as
(23:58):
long as it's needed until hegets it.
Tim Bish (24:01):
The the brotherhood also. And, like, when we recall
that moment, the brotherhood,John Yang, Jason, these they
were also they were also a partof that experience for me even
if they weren't in the roomhaving the conversation. And so
when we think about creatingthese communities, it was that
too. Because I'm like, oh, well,you know, there was
Eric Bomyea (24:21):
all these, like, sources of trust and love that
participated. Yeah, trust. So ifI am understanding correctly,
one of the roots of this flareup, this crossroads moment was
Tim, underneath it all saying, Idon't trust you. I don't trust
this container, and I have ajudgment about that. I have a
(24:43):
judgment about your capacity,your ability to trust.
Amir Khalighi (24:46):
He he verbalized it.
Eric Bomyea (24:48):
Oh, I said that. Right. Yeah. So so that right
there, you were then able todevelop a trust in the container
in this man in front of us todayand to start to work through
that judgment. So I think thisis the the pass off to, like,
what are what ways in which,like, this type of judgment
shows up as we're dealing withwith men or other father
(25:12):
figures?
Right?
Amir Khalighi (25:13):
Like Yeah. Well, the the that's a two it's a two
step dance because as the otherperson, as the recipient, I you
know, in the position I was in,I had to see what this was for
itself. I could have very easilymade it about me like, what the
hell are you talking about? Thisis not a safe space. It's an
absolute safe space.
Let me tell you all the reasonsthis is a safe space. And I
(25:35):
could have made my case and Icould have could have turned
into a lawyer and no one wouldhave been served. Or I could
have been like, oh, this is hisprotection mechanism that it's
doing its thing. I'm gonna bewith it. And when I sense an
(25:56):
opening, I will present myperception of the situation, and
let's see if he can see it.
Right? So on my side, it takesas a let's say the father
figure, it takes some skill set.Right? So if I every time I had
to, like, debate with my sevenyear old about something, I'd
lose the fight. Right?
(26:19):
I don't need to prove to herthat I'm, you know, that I'm not
x a, whatever she thinks I am.Like, I need to be able to pull
back and see what's happening.So that's on one side. On Tim's
side, he had to, like, be ableto see that he does this. I do
this.
Eric Bomyea (26:38):
The quick to judgment, the the quick to
Amir Khalighi (26:41):
Yeah. Like, I I do this. And to be able to see
what that judgment is reallydoing, I know what it's doing.
Do you do you guys have a senseof what it's doing?
Eric Bomyea (26:55):
Protecting. It's a different Yes.
Amir Khalighi (26:57):
It's exactly what it's doing. It is a gatekeeper.
It is a guy with a fuckingleather jacket with and a bat in
his hand Bot. That isprotecting, well, you you have a
different he's like, yeah. Let'swait.
Wait. This is great. Please,Eric, tell us what he looks like
(27:17):
for you.
Eric Bomyea (27:19):
Well, if it's that case, I'm like, oh, well, sign
me up for that club. Back to it.But he's gatekeeper to Whatever
Amir Khalighi (27:27):
your whatever your gatekeeper is dressed as.
Alright. That's what judgmentdoes. Judgment keeps people away
from that wound.
Tim Bish (27:39):
So it's when when someone is working with their
with their father wound andwanting to bring awareness to
it, bring healing to it,recognizing that that is just
like parts of our shadow, like,there for a reason. And it's
it's about understanding it andmeeting it. It's it's not about
(27:59):
judging it, judging thejudgment, but rather, oh, I see
you. I understand why you exist,and now I get to look into how
it is serving or not serving meand making conscious choices
around that. Is that what I'mhearing?
Amir Khalighi (28:12):
Almost. Almost. So I think I think understanding
what it's there and what it'sdoing is really important. But
what we wanna get to is theexperience of emotions that are
unexpressed underneath inside ofthat wound. Right?
So I'll give you an example withmy own father and my my father
(28:35):
line, really. So and I've talkedabout this in another podcast.
I'll try to keep it short. But II growing up, I had a huge
judgment around my father, hisfather, his ability I mean, I
his ability to carve his ownpath, like, you know, his
(28:55):
addictions. I had I had allthese I had all these judgments
about him.
And it wasn't until, you know, Iwas actually in a ceremony in
VHS, which you both have goneto. And I was in this I was in
this ceremony, and I started tohave, like, like, a deep need
(29:18):
for some fatherly love, let'ssay. And I immediately heard my
own voice. Okay. This is what wedo.
I'm gonna father myself. I'mgonna take I'm gonna allow to be
the safe space for me to be beable to feel what's coming up.
And simultaneously, as I wasdoing that, I could feel almost
(29:40):
like an energetic like,energetically, we were in
ceremony. I could energeticallyfeel the presence of my father
in that space. And I it was likealmost of like a like a
barometer.
Like the like the the less Ijudged him, the more I could
feel his presence in my life.And once I turned the judgment
(30:02):
down enough, I got to thefeelings. I I was fucking
pissed. How fucking dare you,like, not show up for me? I
missed you.
You missed your grandkids. Like,I just started pouring into I I
I almost felt like it wasn'tgoing to end, like, how much
emotion I I had in my heart inthat wound. But as soon as I
(30:28):
really allowed myself to feelthat, I could feel more and more
of his presence near me. And I Istarted to actually go from
holding space for myself intoleaning into him energetically
for the first time ever maybe,ever. I'm a 54 year old man.
This was a few years ago. I'mlike, you know, 50 years old or
(30:50):
whatever I was. And I really gotto I have this somatic healing
of of an understanding thatjudgments just keep me away.
Judgments just keep me away.Keeps a distance between me and
others.
Or you the more
Eric Bomyea (31:11):
you judge, the less you were able to bring those
emotions to the surface. I'm I'mpissed that you couldn't come up
because of how much judgment wasin the way.
Amir Khalighi (31:20):
Yeah. I couldn't really tap into the feelings.
We'll get that's what judgmentdoes. It creates a distance not
from you to them. It creates adistance from you to you.
Tim Bish (31:31):
It creates a distance from you to you. Wow.
Amir Khalighi (31:35):
And at the end of the day, healing has to happen
with you to you. Healing is aopen it's it's allowing the the
the wound to be open, to beexposed to light, And then
naturally, healing begins tohappen.
Tim Bish (31:49):
You know, this makes me think of this concept of, you
know, emotions or or experience.And if and if we don't allow
ourselves them, then they kindof get stuck. So it sounds like
part of the healing is I have toI have to allow myself to feel
it or experience it, or or I'mjust gonna carry it with me. And
then if I'm carrying it with me,especially if I'm carrying it
(32:10):
with me unconsciously, that'swhen it's most likely to come
out sideways in ways that Idon't even fully understand or
maybe can't control.
Amir Khalighi (32:17):
And add an add another layer to the problem.
You have a society that is shamebased around any child's
expressions, emotionalexpressions. We call it feminine
expression. It's but it's reallyit's not about gender. It's just
that, you know, all childrenhave that within them, this
desire to express.
(32:38):
And when you're shamed or whenit's collapsed at a young age
and now you're a 35 year old manthat you're like, I can't feel
anything. I don't you know,they've it's almost like a
severance that has happenedwithin yourself internally. And
that becomes the work of, like,how to reintegrate, how to
reclaim aspects of yourself,aspects of pieces of you that
(33:02):
you've left behind that you'redisconnected from. That's why in
half practices that, you know, Ibring and you bring in in your
circles, you know, they're halfof them are feminine embodiment
practices because we need todeepen our capacity and and
deepen our sensitivity to ourown emotional bodies, not only
(33:25):
in in being able to be witnessand be with them, but also to be
a safe container for ourselves,which is what are we doing?
We're fathering ourselves.
Right? I'm like, you're thatpart. Like, learning how to do
that in men's work is a hugecomponent of men's work. And I
would venture to say thatmajority of majority don't. It's
(33:47):
not on their radar.
It's definitely on our radar.
Eric Bomyea (33:50):
So along the the healing path and specifically
around this ceremony and thedays afterwards during
integration, the ability to turndown the dial on judgment
allowed some healing to takeplace. So I'm curious, was that
healing about forgiveness orreconnection?
Amir Khalighi (34:11):
More for reconnection for me. Some
forgiveness, definitely morereconnection because the same
way I judge them about x, y, andz, I'm internally judging myself
because I know I am a part ofthat clan. And I think for me,
coming to, you know, droppingthe judgments, feeling the
(34:35):
feelings really gave me anopportunity to take my rightful
place in my masculine lineage.You know? I really felt their
support on what I wasalchemizing for all our behalfs.
I really felt their presence andappreciation for the first time.
(34:55):
And and, you know, I this is apart of me that that I I had
disavowed within myself, notjust my father and my
grandfather, but, like, thewhole masculine lineage.
Eric Bomyea (35:12):
So reconnecting to them through toning down
judgment and being able toreconcile of sorts to to be able
to forgive or forget, like, what
Amir Khalighi (35:26):
are the When when you when you when you stop
judging something, you actuallybegin to see it for what it is.
Because when you're judging,you're putting a wig and a and a
lipstick on it that you want.But when you stop doing that,
you can start to actually, like,see people for who they are, the
(35:49):
essence of them. Right? And Ifound myself I'm like, you know
what?
I judge them for being likestreet wise and tatted up. And I
had all these judgments aboutthem, know, like, oh, they're
not good fathers. And dude, I amfully tatted up. I'm a I'm a I
used to be a street hustler whenI was a kid. Like, I'm like,
(36:09):
wait a minute.
Those are all judgments I haveabout myself too. And it just it
all just started to crumble.
Eric Bomyea (36:18):
Yes. There's a there's a little bit of
forgiveness about them and areconciliation about them, but
really it's it's about forgivingyourself for judging them for so
long and really recognizing thatthe judgment had less to do with
them as it did with yourself.
Amir Khalighi (36:33):
Yeah. I think it just kept kept me from it kept
me from them. And we are we arenot designed this way. We are
not designed to be islands. Weare we are interconnected
beings, whether it's friendshipor family.
And you don't have to like yourfamily or even hang out with
(36:59):
them. But I think there is valuein assessing our judgments about
them, I think there is value inseeing where there's a blind
spot within us that needsattention, whether that's a
healing or a shadow. I mean,this is really the type of men I
(37:23):
wanna hang out with.
Tim Bish (37:25):
What is the danger in the projection of the perfect
dad? Because when we're talkingabout this, it sounds like we're
bringing into the conversation arecognition that people are are
meeting us where they they theycan. And I'm thinking about my
own father, and, you know, hedidn't he didn't have certain
things modeled to him, and hedidn't have men's workspaces
(37:47):
that I'm aware of. And so thatawareness helps me soften a
little bit. Be like, okay.
Well Sure. And but I do thinkthat sometimes we get this idea
of, like, well, this is what itshould have been. This is what
the ideal father should havebeen, and now I'm mad at you for
not for not being Yeah. Well, I
Amir Khalighi (38:05):
I I think, you know, intellectualizing and and
getting into the heart of whatyou're feeling and expressing it
are two different things. Right?I think I think they're I think
I don't yeah. I mean, look. Mydad did his thing.
It was his path. It doesn't haveto be my path. Doesn't have to
be the way I think it needs tobe. Right? I mean, I'm having a
(38:30):
similar thing with, you know, myeldest daughter.
She probably doesn't think mypath is the path the way it
should be. Like, her coming toterms with that, that's hers.
Mine is like, you know what? Youdid your thing. And as my
father, I love you.
Do I have pain around the yourlack of presence in my life? You
(38:53):
better fucking believe it. Am Iam I taking responsibility in
addressing that? You betterfucking believe it. I'm not
outsourcing this anymore.
I'm not saying you fix merelationship. You love me, make
me feel safe relationship. Like,I'm I I don't I don't want that
(39:16):
because it's too painful for me,and it's too painful for the
intimate people in myrelationship. It's not fair. So
if you're outsourcing your painbecause you can't hold it,
you're gonna keep getting sameresults until you're like, okay.
I need some help. Somebodyfucking help me. Perfect place
(39:38):
to be.
Tim Bish (39:39):
And I'm really hearing that, you know, people who are
approaching this part of theirown journey and their own
healing, it does not need to beconnected to repairing or or or
liking your father or fatherfigure. That isn't that is that
isn't a requirement for thiswork in the ceiling.
Amir Khalighi (39:58):
Yeah. Reconciliation has nothing to do
with having a relationship withsomeone, a continued
relationship. I've had somepowerful reconciliations, and
there has been nothing aboutthat person that I wanna
continue to have anotherrelationship with. But did I
need to take ownership aroundcertain things? Yeah.
(40:19):
Did they need to say theirpeace? Yeah. In the name of,
like, creating space and freedombecause, you know, I want I
don't want anything danglingwith people. Right? And with
family, it's a little bitharder.
Eric Bomyea (40:35):
So when somebody gets to that moment of, like,
finally being on their knees,being like, can somebody please
help me? That starts to soundlike the breaking point and is
the antithesis of what thiswound can manifest as, that
whole, I can do this on my own.I don't need support. Don't need
any help. The sheer fact ofsomebody raising their hands
(40:55):
like, I'm ready and ready toreceive help is a huge first
step.
And then along the path ofhealing, as a man chooses to
face this consciously, whatbegins to shift for him? Not
just for himself, but thegenerations that came before and
that come afterwards?
Amir Khalighi (41:15):
Yeah. So I think one of the one way to describe
this is that, you know, beforeany great change, there's great
turbulence. Okay? If you canwithstand the turbulence, you'll
have your breakthrough. You'llhave your breakthrough.
I'm reminded of, you know, I'mreminded of and this is don't
(41:39):
know if this and we're talkingabout armies and and air and air
force and planes. Is that cool?It's like, okay. Let's go. You
know, I was like, you know, thethe Russians in The US were were
in a race to break the soundbarrier.
I think I've shared this storywith with you, Tim. Yeah. And
(42:00):
these planes they would makeevery time they got close to
Mach one, the planes wouldrattle and they would explode,
and and they lost pilots.Ultimately, they get they get
the plane they think is theplane, it's called an x one, and
they get the pilot that theythink can do it, Chuck Yeager.
They go to him, they say, look,time is of essence.
(42:20):
We have to do this. We thinkyou're the man to do it. And he
says, okay. He does it. He'sclimbing up.
Everybody's watching. And thesame fucking thing. As soon as
he starts to get close to Mach1, the plane starts to rattle
uncontrollably. And the onlydifference in with what Jaeger
(42:42):
did and all the other ones was
Tim Bish (42:45):
He kept going. He pushed through.
Amir Khalighi (42:48):
He throttled forward instead of pull back.
Everybody would pull backbecause the throttling was too
intense or they would eject. Hethrottled forward, and he said
the moment he broke the soundbarrier, everything went still.
He said you could serve tea tothe queen. Like, everything went
(43:09):
still.
So these moments these momentsof turbulence, these moments of
upheaval are really, like, yourcalling card that you're on the
precipice of of potentiallysomething incredible, a shift in
(43:30):
your life. But it always dependson your willingness to be able
to tolerate the uncomfortabilityand begin to see the landscape
for what it is and, like Tim,make a new choice in moving in a
new direction.
Tim Bish (43:48):
I was laughing earlier because, as you know, there's
been my life has had someturbulence. And so that that
message feels uniquely welltimed for me today. So thank you
for that reminder.
Amir Khalighi (44:02):
You're welcome. You're welcome. And I know you
know how to do it.
Tim Bish (44:07):
Yeah. And it's it's it's still scary. I have to
imagine, you know, for someonelistening to this podcast and
thinking about doing this work,each step feels like an
adventure. And there are momentswhere it feels really
challenging again. And that'swhy having teachers, having
structures, having community,having brothers, having context
(44:30):
and conversation are all really,really important because
sometimes it feels like a lot.
And those are the things that ifyou are the lone wolf and you
are standing by yourself, it'smaybe too much to hold. If It is
too much. If you're in the pack,then okay. It doesn't mean I'm
not uncomfortable, but it meansthat it is shared and supported
(44:53):
in a way that allows me to keepmoving. I'm walking this tough
road, but I'm not alone.
Amir Khalighi (45:00):
Let me tell you something. If you're on the path
of self actualization, whichthis is what this is, self
actualization is new renditionsof you consistently evolving and
coming into being, the processis going to be fucking painful,
and it will be messy. Just likea delivery of a baby, it is
(45:22):
fucking painful, and it isfucking messy, and it is magic
in its purest essence. That'syou're engaging in your own
evolution consciously. Is itgonna be hard at times?
Yes. That's really what, youknow, what this is about. I
(45:44):
mean, we do the healing to startto step into newer versions of
ourselves that are that areaching to come through.
Eric Bomyea (45:51):
Gotta interrupt the the cycle to create something
new.
Amir Khalighi (45:55):
Yeah. And and and that something new could be a
long string that is karmicallyconnected to, you know, your
ancestry line. And when you healhere, you're just sparking this
healing, and it moves up anddown this thread backwards,
forwards to your children, toyour to your ancestors. So that
(46:19):
is there's truth in that.
Eric Bomyea (46:21):
So connecting to the lineage of where we came
from and what will come afterus. Healing, what I just heard
you say, helps to remedy orresolve up the line and down the
line.
Amir Khalighi (46:38):
Absolutely. And if every if everything is energy
and you're shifting yourenergetic biofield, what's
happening to the line? It'sshifting.
Eric Bomyea (46:45):
And what becomes possible in a man's life and in
his relationships as that linebegins to shift?
Amir Khalighi (46:53):
I mean, we could spend an hour on this, but I
really believe life wants togive you everything that's in
your heart. That's it. That's inalignment to, like, to your
highest good. Now we may thinkwe need certain things, but
really for your highest good. Itwants to give you what is in
your heart.
And I think the I think comingto terms of the fact that that
(47:17):
is possible is a lot of powerfor men to come to terms with.
And, historically, men withpower don't have a great track
record. So as we individuallylearn how to wield conscious
power, we are also alchemizing,you know, in a societal sense,
(47:39):
the unconscious collective oftoxic masculinity, what that
means. And a lot of it is justunconsciousness. A lot of toxic
masculinity is justunconsciousness, whether it's
unconsciousness from a father toa son.
You know, he's just on he's notaware of what's happening. He's
preoccupied in his own story, sothere's no presence for him.
(48:01):
Right? And it is this awakeningthat that I think so presence
becomes really one of the focalpoints. Like, you know, is there
presence in this moment?
You know? Am I present with you?You know? As part of this
macroevolution of what I senseis happening to men to men and
(48:27):
what it means to be a man. Andand reclaiming, like, our power
and reclaiming our power, butnot the way we've been trained
because society feeds off ofthis hierarchical system of
domination.
But the power that is inalignment with your
(48:48):
interconnectedness to your heartand your heart interconnected to
the earth, Like, beingreconnected to something greater
than yourself that you're a partof, not this esoteric thing
that's outside of you that youneed interpreters to understand.
And it's just like, no, man.Like, no. Like, no. We're done
(49:09):
with that system.
Right? So I think it's areclamation on multiple levels.
Like, individually as menchange, the collective begins to
change. And the paradigm that'scoming into being is more of a
surrounded circle sense of powerand what that means for you to
take your rightful place in thatpower. You guys running this
(49:33):
circle, I'm gonna tell yousomething, you know this.
This is not really about you.This is about you taking your
place and doing what you'recalled to do. And the moment you
make it about you, you lose theplot. And when you lose the
plot, you lose the power. Nowwith power comes great
responsibility, therefore, beingconscious of wielding power
(49:57):
becomes incredibly important.
And if you're wielding it forsomething greater, then you are
in the river of life. And Ithink that's where masculinity
is really headed to, is toreally awaken to where we call
in the fabric of life and takingour rightful place in doing that
and participating in the healingof ourselves and the fabric of
of society and life as we knowit.
Eric Bomyea (50:19):
That is it's a beautiful vision. It's something
that is something I want tostrive for. And I'm striving for
every single day. And so I'mcurious for anyone listening
who's feeling the ache of thiswound and who sees that vision
and says, I want I want to getthere someday. What would you
want them to know right now, andwhat resources are available to
(50:41):
them?
Amir Khalighi (50:42):
Well, I would say, like, just the simple fact
of willingness is the open doorthat you're looking for. And
then the next step is to takeaction because nothing happens
in your like, just thinkingabout it. Like, take action. Go
to a men's circle. Like,literally show up.
And if you go to a circle thatyou don't like, go to another
(51:05):
one.
Tim Bish (51:06):
Yeah. Keep looking. Keep
Amir Khalighi (51:08):
looking. Mhmm. Right? Keep looking for your
people. You're gonna find peoplethat are your people, that speak
your vernacular, right, and thatthat you feel at home with, you
know, and it may take a fewtimes before you orient to that.
And just know that the work isinternal. Like, the answers come
(51:30):
first from starting to lookwithin yourself and having an
honest assessment about whatyou're seeing. And, usually,
having other men reflect back toyou how you show up in the world
is part of that process. So thelone wolf is just not going to
get there. No.
It's not going to it's not goingto be a part of this evolution.
(51:52):
It's just not. It can it can itcan exist. It just won't join
the party.
Tim Bish (51:57):
Well, so, I mean, there are lots of men's groups
that exist. Obviously, there'sthe circle here in Provincetown
that Eric and I both run. Youhave your weekly circle online
at embodiedmasculine.com. You'realso doing a workshop around
this very topic in July.
Amir Khalighi (52:15):
We are.
Tim Bish (52:15):
Yeah. We are.
Amir Khalighi (52:16):
A free workshop. So, yeah, a free event. So I'm
I'm putting together becauseit's really it's this is really
close to my heart. It's reallyclose to my heart. I really,
really know the pain ofisolation in this space and the
and the hypervigilance and andthe and the protectionism around
(52:37):
that wound and and and theprojections of it and how it
hurts people that I love.
You know? And so I this thishealing the father wound event
in July is meaningful to me.It's meaningful to me. Yes. They
you know, people can we'll haveit's open registration, and you
(53:00):
just register.
You'll get an email with apreparation letter and and Zoom
link, and it's a three hourevent. And I think it'll be a
really great space for all ofthis exploration.
Tim Bish (53:10):
They can go to they can go to embodiedmasculine.com
to find that information and toregister. Is that right?
Amir Khalighi (53:16):
Yeah. Yeah. Under you just hover over offerings,
and it's under workshops. Andthat's the first item to item
down.
Eric Bomyea (53:25):
Right. It's a really tremendous offering to be
able to bring to the world. It'savailable online As long as you
have an Internet connection anda willingness to show up, you
can participate. And I thinkthat accessibility is so
critical when we're dealing withsuch a difficult wound like this
(53:47):
that shows up in so many waysaround trust and and judgment
and whether or not I belong tosomething or can I even be in
that space and just the opennessto welcome people in as they
are, like, let's do this work,is really, really beautiful? So
thank you for offering it.
Amir Khalighi (54:06):
Yeah. Thank you for those kind words. Yeah. And
I think it's it speaks to thewillingness, like I said. If you
have a willingness to take astep forward, You know?
And, you know, we'll have youknow, we'll we'll be using
journeying as part of the work.We'll we'll have ritual as part
of the work, it'll be it'll be athing. It'll be meaningful.
Eric Bomyea (54:26):
Well, with that, I'm feeling very complete. We'll
do round robin. Tim, how are youfeeling?
Tim Bish (54:30):
I feel complete. And, Demir?
Amir Khalighi (54:32):
I do as well. I feel complete.
Eric Bomyea (54:34):
Well, thank you so much. Tim, will you take us out?
Tim Bish (54:36):
I will. Let's close our eyes and take a deep inhale
through the nose. Soft exhalethrough the mouth. And it is
with deep appreciation andgratitude for any insights,
awarenesses, or understandingsthat we may have gained in this
sacred shared space ofbrotherhood that we now release
the archetypes and the spiritsthat we called in. And with
these words are containers openbut not broken.
(54:57):
Uh-huh.
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